Comments by "" (@neutronalchemist3241) on "Metatron" channel.

  1. 237
  2. 43
  3. 40
  4. 38
  5. 33
  6. 32
  7. 31
  8. 28
  9. 26
  10. 23
  11. 23
  12. 22
  13. 21
  14. Historically they didn't inflict those casualties. And this has little to do with using the phalanx correctly. The phalangites were not using the sarissas incorrectly. Flat terrains are not so common in Greece. If you can accept battle exclusively in flat terrains, and cannot move from there, you are going to lose anyway. Some centurion (not "the Roman Commander") did so, and, the fact that some centurion did so talks of the fact that they were frustrated, not frightened for the losses. As already said: "In all the engagement between the phalanx and the developed (not early time) legion, at first the phalanx advanced, because the legion couldn't break through a perfectly formed phalanx, but the legion suffered negligible losses. Then something happened, and at that point the legion adapted and slaughtered the phalangites". Fact is tha the phalanx needed TOO MUCH THINGS going its own way. Had the Generals maintained control and kept the Phalanx stationary then the battle would have been inconclusive in the best case, OR the legion would have outflanked the phalanx (you must keep contact with the enemy to prevent it to manuver, and that was important for the phalanx, since the legion was faster and easier to manuver). I've not talked of "Greece". However Rome used a fraction of his forces in the Macedonian wars, and the legionaries at that time were conscripts as well. However, as said, having a cavalry so dominant that it could dispatch the enemy cavalry, then regroup and invest the back of enemy infantry WAS NOT A GIVEN, it was not like the others didn't know the horses. To the roman cavalry was not requested to be so dominant, it was enough for them to keep the other occupied (a goal that you can accomplish even with an inferior cavalry)
    21
  15. 21
  16. 19
  17. 19
  18. 19
  19. 17
  20. 15
  21. 15
  22. 14
  23. 13
  24. 12
  25. 11
  26. 11
  27. 11
  28. 11
  29. 11
  30. 10
  31. 10
  32. 10
  33. 10
  34. 10
  35. 10
  36. 10
  37. 9
  38. 9
  39. 9
  40. 9
  41. 8
  42. 8
  43. 8
  44. 8
  45. 8
  46. 8
  47. 8
  48. 8
  49. 8
  50. 8
  51. 8
  52. 8
  53. 8
  54. 7
  55. 7
  56. 7
  57. 7
  58. 7
  59. 7
  60. 6
  61. 6
  62. 6
  63. 6
  64. 6
  65. 6
  66. 5
  67. 5
  68. 5
  69. 5
  70. 5
  71. 5
  72. 5
  73. 5
  74. 5
  75. 5
  76. 5
  77. 5
  78. 4
  79. 4
  80. 4
  81. 4
  82. 4
  83. 4
  84. 4
  85. 4
  86. 4
  87. 4
  88. 4
  89. 4
  90. 4
  91. 4
  92. 4
  93. 4
  94. 4
  95. 4
  96. 4
  97. 4
  98. 4
  99. 4
  100. 4
  101. 4
  102. 4
  103. 4
  104. 4
  105. 4
  106. 4
  107. 3
  108. 3
  109. 3
  110. 3
  111. 3
  112. 3
  113. 3
  114. 3
  115. 3
  116. 3
  117. 3
  118. 3
  119. 3
  120. 3
  121. 3
  122. 3
  123. 3
  124. 3
  125. 3
  126. 3
  127. 3
  128. 3
  129. 3
  130. 3
  131. 3
  132. 3
  133. 3
  134. 3
  135. 3
  136. 3
  137. 3
  138. 3
  139. 3
  140. 3
  141. 3
  142. 3
  143. 3
  144. 3
  145. 3
  146. 2
  147. 2
  148. 2
  149. 2
  150. 2
  151. 2
  152. 2
  153. 2
  154. 2
  155. 2
  156. 2
  157. 2
  158. 2
  159. 2
  160. 2
  161. 2
  162. 2
  163. 2
  164. 2
  165. 2
  166. 2
  167. 2
  168. 2
  169. 2
  170. 2
  171. 2
  172. 2
  173. 2
  174. 2
  175. 2
  176. 2
  177. 2
  178. 2
  179. 2
  180. 2
  181. 2
  182. 2
  183. 2
  184. 2
  185. 2
  186. 2
  187. 2
  188. 2
  189. 2
  190. 2
  191. 2
  192. 2
  193. 2
  194. 2
  195. 2
  196. 2
  197. That's pretty interesting. It has to be noted that Pirrhus, a refined and valued Hellenistic commander, faced a very "fresh" legionary model. The Romans had just adopted it, in the Samnitic wars, that had just ended when the Pyrrhic war begun. At that time, the Romans used the manipulary system as a way to fight frontal battles on rough terrain. there was not really a tactical use of the maniples. On the other side, having noticed that, in Italy, battles were not fought only on plains, Pyrrhus adapted the phalanx, intermixing the squares of phalangites with the more mobile formations of his Italic allies. As a result, Pyrrhus generally managed to inflict to the Romans more severe losses that he suffered, but not to gain a decisive victory, and his losses were less replaceable. Hannibal, that was an admirer of Pyrrhus, noted this weakness, and he made sure to fight vs. the Romans only "annihilation battles", where the entire enemy formation was destroyed for little cost of his own. If there was not that possibility, he preferred to concede a limited defeat that to gain a costly victory. Unfortunately (for the Hellenistic rulers) Hannibal "trained" the Romans to use their maniples tactically. To move them sideways, to encircle, to make faints and ambushes. As a result, when the Romans, right after the second Punic war, clashed with the Hellenistic rulers in Greece and middle east, it seemed a clash between professionals and amateurs. The phalanx could still held its own in a pure frontal battle, but too many things had to go its way for it to work and, as soon as something got wrong, it ended in a massacre. And those were still Republican Roman armies. A militia of citizens. In the last clashes, when the post-Marian reform professional Roman army clashed with the last phalanxes in the east, the legionaries won with ridiculous ease.
    2
  198. 2
  199. 2
  200. 2
  201. 2
  202. 2
  203. 2
  204. 2
  205. 2
  206. 2
  207. 2
  208. 2
  209. 2
  210. 2
  211. 2
  212. 2
  213. 2
  214. 2
  215. 2
  216. 2
  217. 2
  218. 2
  219. 2
  220. 2
  221. 2
  222. 2
  223. 2
  224. 2
  225. 2
  226. 2
  227. 2
  228. 2
  229. 2
  230. 2
  231. 2
  232. 2
  233. 2
  234. 2
  235. 2
  236. 2
  237. 2
  238. 2
  239. 2
  240. 2
  241. 2
  242. 2
  243. 2
  244. 2
  245.  @tylerstevenson8085  At this point I don't know if you can think. What "the majority" has to do wit the topic now? The majority of trade is made with, and the majority of travels are done in, the immediate proximity. That means that trading and traveling outside the immediate proximity is impossible? The majority of what you eat is not pepper. That means pepper doesn't exist? I already said, we were talking of seafaring capability in Roman times, not if you could navigate the entire route from te city of Rome to India. Egypt was Empire too. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE THE STARTING POINT OF THE VOYAGE WAS AS LONG IT WAS IN THE EMPIRE. To keep on argumenting that Rome is in the Mediterranean, so part ot the trip from India to specifically the city of Rome had to be done overland, at this point, is beyond stupid (it was even at the start, really). So stop being beyond stupid and using dumb arguments. Majority of trade between Rome and India was made by sea. Is "by sea" even if the goods were disembarked at Mios Hormos, on the Red sea, shipped on the Nile to Alexandria, and then put on another ship to Rome. Or if they didn't reach the city of Rome at all. THE EMPIRE WAS NOT ONLY THE CITY OF ROME. The original comment was about the supposed inability of the Romans to navigate the ocean. In reality Romans happened to navigate the ocean. When Egypt was not part of the empire, the same route was followed by someone else. The goods were transported mainly BY SEA anyway. Yeah. The problem is EXACTLY that, with "Rome" you mean only the city. Otherwise you had not came up with that nonsense of " a completely sea bound route from India to Italy was impossible" (and so? What it has to do with the ability of navigating the Ocean?)
    2
  246. 2
  247. 2
  248. 2
  249. 2
  250. 2
  251. 2
  252. 2
  253. 2
  254. 2
  255. 2
  256. 2
  257. 2
  258. 2
  259. 2
  260. 2
  261. 2
  262. 2
  263. 2
  264. 2
  265. 2
  266. 2
  267. 2
  268. 2
  269. 2
  270. 2
  271. 2
  272. 2
  273. 2
  274. 2
  275. 2
  276. 2
  277. 2
  278. 2
  279. 2
  280. 2
  281. 2
  282. 2
  283. 2
  284. 2
  285. 2
  286. 2
  287. 2
  288. 2
  289. 2
  290. 2
  291. 2
  292. 2
  293. 2
  294. 2
  295. 2
  296. 2
  297. 2
  298. 2
  299. 2
  300. 2
  301. 2
  302. 2
  303. 2
  304. 2
  305. 2
  306. 2
  307. 2
  308. 1
  309. 1
  310. 1
  311. 1
  312. 1
  313. 1
  314. 1
  315. 1
  316. 1
  317. 1
  318. 1
  319. 1
  320. 1
  321. 1
  322. 1
  323. 1
  324. 1
  325. 1
  326. 1
  327. 1
  328. 1
  329. 1
  330. 1
  331. 1
  332. 1
  333. 1
  334. 1
  335. 1
  336. 1
  337. 1
  338. 1
  339. 1
  340. 1
  341. 1
  342. 1
  343. 1
  344. 1
  345. 1
  346. 1
  347. 1
  348. 1
  349. 1
  350. 1
  351. 1
  352. 1
  353. 1
  354. 1
  355. 1
  356. 1
  357. 1
  358. 1
  359. 1
  360. *There could be, and had been used, multiple phalanxes. The pikemen had always more columns cause they came from different places, and, like for the oplite phalanx, the unity of a column depended from the fact that its members came from the same place and thrusted each other. Furthermore, among the Swiss, every column was free to decide wether to attack or rethreat. The coordination was scarce. *To have different kind of soldiers into the same formation is not necessarily an advantage. If you have not enough pikemen to keep the enemy infantry at bay, and not enough swordsmen to fight them in close quarters, it will end in a slaughter anyway. Furthermore, phalangites had swords as well, and they had been easily defeated. *The legion evolved a lot during the years as well. But, until the advent of firearms, I don't see advantages in the pikemen squares over the legion. *Is like saying that, since a AA station can shoot down an attack helicopter, while a tank will have a hard time versus it, the AA station will easily win versus the tank. It doesn't work that way. The pikemen squares evolved exactly to counter the cavalry, but they generally never fought vs other kind od organized infantry. Legions instead fought vs many kind of organized infantry. Pikemen would have been nothing new to them, only a variation of the Oplite-Macedonian phalanx they knew well. And, as said, there is the military engineering to take into account. At the Bicocca the Swiss were defeated mainly by the mere presence of a sunken road transverse to the battlefield. To make better obstacles would have been child play for the legionaries. That's my opinion.
    1
  361. *Pike squares put togheter men of the same origin. For this cause, often there had been competition, and not cohordination, between the Swiss columns on the same battlefield. *Gauls too fought in close formaftions of spearmen. Formations of spearmen were nothing new for the Romans. They saw it before. *Is not a question of numbers, but of numbers for the same area. In a certain area there could be only a certain number of men. Too few pikemen, and the enemies will find their way to fight in close quarters, and at that point the pikemen will be only an hindrance. Too few swordsmen, and they will not make any difference. If combined formations would have been ALWAYS an advantage, the Romans would have kept the hasta between their squares, or the phalangites would have kept the oplites between theirs. They didn't cause it was not an advantage. *I never said the Romans were invincible. I said: "That doesn't mean that the Roman victory would be a given fact, obviously. Even the Romans had their bad days. But, assuming both the formations to have a capable commander, one that know how to get the best from his men, to me the legion had more possibilities." *Infact, once other organized infantries begun to appear on the battlefield, initially copying the Swiss (cause they were then the only example of efficient infantry available) the pikemen square formation begun to change, incorporating more and more other kind of soldiers (cause heavy cavalry was no more the primary threat) and resembling less and less a pikemen square, until the ones that remained more faithful to the original formation had been the first to be throughly and repeatedly beaten. It doesn't seems a demonstration of strenght of the pikemen squares vs other forms of infantry. *The phalanx could too. There is simply a trade-off between lenght of the spear and number of lines of soldiers employed, and so the effectiveness of the defense, and time employed to change formation. After the harquebuses became the main infantry weapon, the pike remained in use only to protect them from the cavalry charges. It had been abandoned as soon as the bayoned was invented, and a musket with a bayonet is a short spear. So short spears and no shields are the best formation ever? No. Simply shields were useless vs firearms. And, as said, there is the military engineering to take into account. A battle vs a legion is not only a battle vs shield and short sword. It's a battle vs a military system that in no time could build fortifications, trenches, traps, and make a terrain impracticable for the enemy. Historically the pikemen squares did nothing similar, and did not cope well with natural or artificial obstacles. Thanks to you.
    1
  362. The civilizations that relied on the shield-spear combination , almost always used a variation of the "shield wall" tactic, with the two opposite formations in close contact, pushing one vs the other, the shields locked, and the spear used to hit in the spaces left between the shields. It's a formation that doesn't need much training to be effective. It only needs it's memebers so thrust eachoter (infact it was good for the citizens of the same city-state, ot the inahbitants of the same fiord). On the other hand, this formation is not very deadly. The slaughters se saw in the Greek wars almost always happened during the cavalry's chase after one of the two formations was broken. The Romans used the shield offensively. Their shields were not locked, but used to hit the enemy, or cover his field of view. In this case the gladium gives to the soldier more possibilities. He can instantly decide to hit the enemy's foot, or the leg, ot the shoulder, every square inch of bare skin, without having a long rod behind him to hinder his movements. Furthermore the gladium's blade can't be grabbed if the thrust fails to hit, and the gladium is lighter than the spear, so it's wielder can hit faster and more times first to be tired. This way of fighting was much deadlier. A legion was not a pushing machine with a secondary thrusting capability. To go against a legion with the idea of pushing it back was like to go against a chainsaw with the idea of pushing it back. On the other hand, this kind of formation needs much more training to be effective.
    1
  363. 1
  364. 1
  365. 1
  366. 1
  367. 1
  368. 1
  369. 1
  370. 1
  371. 1
  372. 1
  373. 1
  374. 1
  375. 1
  376. 1
  377. 1
  378. 1
  379. 1
  380. 1
  381. 1
  382. 1
  383. 1
  384. 1
  385. 1
  386. 1
  387. 1
  388. 1
  389. 1
  390. 1
  391. 1
  392. 1
  393. 1
  394. 1
  395. 1
  396. 1
  397. 1
  398. 1
  399. 1
  400. 1
  401. 1
  402. 1
  403. 1
  404. 1
  405. 1
  406. 1
  407. 1
  408. A 1st century 9000 men (to keep the numbers even with the English at Agincourt, even it it would have been a very little army for Roman standards) strong Roman army would have been equipped with 90 carroballiste, capable to throw a 132cm long projectile to 650m, so they would have had the range advantage even vs the English longbows. Almost every legionary would have been equipped with a 400m range (so on par with a longbow) capable sling. The 1st century lorica segmentata was a very good protection against projectiles (it had been said that it had been deeloped to cope with Parthian composite bows), much better than anything the average English longbowman had (they were not unarmored, but the quality of protectioon varied wildly). Romans used several times the anti cavalry "square" formation (it was round in their case) using the pila as spears. Horses doesn't crush into dense packs of spears bristling infantry. Long pikes obviously were an advantage but, in medieval history, several times infantry formations less disciplined than the Romans, and without Swiss pikes, resisted to cavalry charges (IE at Legnano). Medieval knights had the advantage that usually they fought vs. very undisciplined militias, whose formations were very easy to disrupt. Mind too that most depended on the time too. Had the Romans some hour to build even very simple fortifications, even only the stimuli and campus liliorum (field traps for cavalry), the cavalry charge would have been complitely neutralized.
    1
  409. 1
  410. 1
  411. 1
  412. 1
  413. 1
  414. 1
  415. 1
  416. 1
  417. 1
  418. 1
  419. 1
  420. 1
  421. 1
  422. 1
  423. 1
  424. 1
  425. 1
  426. 1
  427. 1
  428. 1
  429. 1
  430. 1
  431. 1
  432. 1
  433. 1
  434. 1
  435. 1
  436. 1
  437. 1
  438. 1
  439. 1
  440. 1
  441. 1
  442. 1
  443. 1
  444. 1
  445. 1
  446. 1
  447. 1
  448. 1
  449. 1
  450. 1
  451. 1
  452. 1
  453. 1
  454. 1
  455. 1
  456. 1
  457. 1
  458. 1
  459. 1
  460. 1
  461. 1
  462. 1
  463. 1
  464. 1
  465. 1
  466. 1
  467. 1
  468. 1
  469. 1
  470. 1
  471. 1
  472. 1
  473. 1
  474. 1
  475. 1
  476. 1
  477. 1
  478. 1
  479. 1
  480. 1
  481. 1
  482. 1
  483. 1
  484. 1
  485. 1
  486. 1
  487. 1
  488. 1
  489. 1
  490. 1
  491. 1
  492. 1
  493. 1
  494. 1
  495. 1
  496. 1
  497. 1
  498. As for ancient tradition, in Rome the "pater familias" had any right on his family, even to kill his wife and children on the spot. This ancient tradition, however became less and less accepted as time progressed and, in late republican time, even the killing of a slave was no more considered acceptable. This is reflected in the TWO kind of Roman marriages. In the marriage "cum mano" ("with hand"), the most common in ancient time, the father of the bride placed her hand in that of the husband. In that way he transferred to the husband every right he had over her. From this kind of marriage, divorce was impossible. In the marriage "sine mano" (without hand), that became prevalent in 1st century BC, and practically had completely replaced the other by 1st century AD, there wasn't that part, and so the bride remained nominally under the authority of her father. That meant that her husband had no right to abuse of her in any way and for any reason, even infidelity, and she could leave her husband's house AT ANY MOMENT. That also mean that, the moment her father died, a Roman woman was completely free. She could inherit, carry on her businesses, etc. without being under the authority of anyone. Since high class Romans usually married very young women, that meant also that Rome was full of rich and relatively young widows with a lot of economic power. Being cum manu or sine manu, Romans had one wife at a time, even if it was common, for high-class Romans, to have lovers, even official ones. IE Servilia, mother of Brutus (Caesar's assassin), and widow of another Marcus Brutus, was the most known of Caesar's lovers. Gladiators were celebrities. They had a lot of sex.
    1
  499. 1
  500. 1
  501. 1
  502. ​ @undertakernumberone1  The fact that there's a gorget doesn't mean you want to be hit there anyway. Neck is a weak spot of human body. Full of important things and not very apt to take hits. You claimed fluting was advantageous. Here's a simple point: had fluting been SO advantageous as you CLAIM... it would've replaced flat armor extremely quickly because the knights would've noticed: "hey, since we put that stuff on our armour, far less of us die!". Instead fluted armor had been fashionable for a certain perod in a certain place, and then abandoned, while flat armors went on until napoleonic era (and not for fashion. Napoleonic curiasses could still protect from projectiles). People weren't stupid. Yes, they adopted it because it fit the fashion, but then they noticed it was not worth it. You can weld the fluting to the armor if it's advantageous. Maces and the likes are better faced by a continually curved surface than a fluted one. That's why modern motorcycle helmets are not fluted. Physics doesn't change, The shot trap issue is with shots being "trapped", by the shape of the vehicle, in hitting a certain part of the vehicle 90° instead of glancing off. The fact that there's a gorget doesn't mean you want to be hit there anyway. Neck is a weak spot of human body. Full of important things and not very apt to take hits. So those versions have a shot trap, to have the full force of the hit discharged where the vertical fluting encounters the orizontal one. Better than the hit reaching the throat, but far from ideal anyway. Infact those are NOT shot traps. Projectiles are meant to penetrate that external "armour".
    1
  503. 1
  504. 1
  505. 1
  506. 1
  507. 1
  508. 1
  509. 1
  510. 1
  511. 1
  512. 1
  513. 1
  514. 1
  515. 1
  516. 1
  517. 1
  518. 1
  519. 1
  520. 1
  521. 1
  522. 1
  523. 1
  524. 1
  525. 1
  526. 1
  527. 1
  528. 1
  529. 1
  530. 1
  531. 1
  532. 1
  533. 1
  534. 1
  535. 1
  536. 1
  537. 1
  538. 1
  539. 1
  540. 1
  541. 1
  542. 1
  543. 1
  544. 1
  545. 1
  546. 1
  547. 1
  548. 1
  549. 1
  550. 1
  551. 1
  552. 1
  553. 1
  554. 1
  555. 1
  556. 1
  557. 1
  558. 1
  559. 1
  560. 1
  561. 1
  562. 1
  563. 1
  564. 1
  565. 1
  566. 1
  567. 1
  568. 1
  569. 1
  570. 1
  571. 1
  572. 1
  573. 1
  574. 1
  575. 1
  576. 1
  577. 1
  578. 1
  579. 1
  580. 1
  581. 1
  582. 1
  583. 1
  584. 1
  585. 1
  586. 1
  587. 1
  588. 1
  589. 1
  590. 1
  591. 1
  592. 1
  593. 1
  594. 1
  595. 1
  596. 1
  597. 1
  598. 1
  599. 1
  600. 1
  601. 1
  602. 1
  603. 1
  604. 1
  605. 1
  606. 1
  607. 1
  608. 1
  609. 1
  610. 1
  611. 1
  612. 1
  613. 1
  614. 1
  615. 1
  616. 1
  617. 1
  618. 1
  619. 1
  620. 1
  621. 1
  622. 1
  623. 1
  624. 1
  625. 1
  626. 1
  627. 1
  628. 1
  629. 1
  630. 1
  631. 1
  632. 1
  633. 1
  634. 1
  635. 1
  636. 1
  637. 1
  638. 1
  639. 1
  640. 1
  641. 1
  642. 1
  643. 1
  644. 1
  645. 1
  646. 1
  647. 1
  648. 1
  649. 1
  650. 1
  651. 1
  652. 1
  653. 1
  654. 1
  655. 1
  656. 1
  657. 1
  658. 1
  659. 1
  660. 1
  661. 1
  662. 1
  663. 1
  664. 1
  665. 1
  666. 1
  667. 1
  668. 1
  669. 1
  670. 1
  671. 1
  672. 1
  673. 1
  674. 1
  675. 1
  676. 1
  677. 1
  678. 1
  679. 1
  680. 1
  681. 1
  682. 1
  683. 1
  684. 1
  685. To give some chronology, the earliest traces of iron smelting (so no hammering of meteoric iron) date back to 2200-2000 BC Anatolia. From Hittite documents, Iron items were common, altough extremely expensive around 1800 BC. From around the same age we have some small iron jewels, likely smelted. Given the fact that Iron is a crappy material for jewelry (harder to form in complex shapes than gold, silver, or copper alloys, and prone to rust) it was evidently the fact that, for some reason, it was extremely hard to obtain that justified its use. The situation was still the same around 1325 BC. We don't know if Tutankhamun's iron dagger was meteoric or smelted, but, due to the fact that it was evidently not made for its Egyptian-made handle, it was almost surely imported and, form it's original position, it was probably the most prized item of his funerary equipment. More than his gold dagger, or any other golden object. Hittite documents point to the fact that instead, around 1200 BC, iron had become common and cheap. From this period is the most ancient big and complex iron item we have, an Hittite iron sword, surely smelted. In Ugarith had been found an iron sword bearing the name of Pharaon Merneptah (died 1203 BC), so Egyptians had access to the same tecnology. So, there had been some technological improvement, between 1325 BC and 1200 BC, that made iron cheap and available in good quantities. While the technology remained practically unchanged in the eight previous centuries.
    1
  686. 1
  687. 1
  688. 1
  689. 1
  690. 1
  691. 1
  692. 1
  693. 1
  694. 1
  695. 1
  696. 1
  697. 1
  698. 1
  699. 1
  700.  @sergarlantyrell7847  A bascinet with aventail and without visor is not that much of a knightly helmet, if not worn under a great helm, for when things became serious. Is an evolution we seen several times. Kights first wore a nasal helmet with hausberk, not really different form that of infantrymen. Then that protection was considered too light, and evolved first into the enclosed helmet, then in the great helm, to wear over the cervelliere, or over the bascinet (evolved from the cervelliere, probably in Italy that too). At that point the protection was too bulky, knights tended to not use the great helm any more over the bascinet, that was too light, so it evolved into the visored bascinet, and then into the great bascinet, that was too bulky again. In Italy, the standard, or pixane, replaced the aventail (that must be worn over the cuirass, if you wanted to be able to remove the helmet at some point, and so was less safe). Once removed the aventail, and replaced it with the standard, the bascinet evolved in two directions, the sallet and the barbute. Early sallets were infact hardly distinguishable from early barbutes. High end products tend to be more preserved that the simplest pieces, and city militias were not poor, but the barbute was a simple helmet to make by definition, and there are tons of preserved barbutes whose craftmanship was not better than that of the contemporary kettle hats. http://vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?s=66f93c199c3eac6848997735ef636d45&attachmentid=36689&stc=1 https://farm2.static.flickr.com/1557/24368832943_8b6edf33d0.jpg As already said, exactly as the Sallet, the barbute gained popularity with higher classes too, and was worn by cavalrymen too. Why not? For scouting or light skirmishes it had advantages over the heavier helmets. and there will always be someone that will prefer freedom of movements/breathability/less restricted vision over protection even in pitched battles.
    1
  701. 1
  702. 1
  703. 1
  704. 1
  705. 1
  706. 1
  707. 1
  708. 1
  709. 1
  710. 1
  711. 1
  712. 1
  713. 1
  714. 1
  715. 1
  716. 1
  717. 1
  718. 1
  719. 1
  720. Historically they did. As already said, multiple times medieval cavalry charges had been stopped by infantry that had not long pikes and was much less disciplined than the Roman one. A pilum used as a spear is a spear. Anti-cavalry square musketeer worked vs. cavalry charges because horses don't crush into dense packs of spears bristling infantry, regardless how armored or armed their rider is. Horses don't care if their rider is well protected or not, or what kind of weapon is wielding. At the time of the battle of Agincourt, brigandines were not common (they had just been invented). "common" means little anyway, in late medieval armies the quality of the protective gearing varied wildly. Many English longbowmen only had some sort of padded vest and an helmet ( https://78.media.tumblr.com/1306ef25e5adce23a62dc270f899fba9/tumblr_nwsa530hAp1qbrih3o1_1280.jpg ). Moreover Projectiles tend to came from above, and even good quality brigandines are not that well protected from that direction, the lorica hamata had a double layer on the shoulder, and the segmentata was much better protected than any brigandine. Brigandines' protection is, at best, at the level of that of the Lorica squamata, that was more a flashy garement for parades than a battle armor, and longbowmen didn't had shields. Ist century Roman armies had balista. Sige engines and gunpowder guns and cannons had not been used at Agincourt. Not that siege engines are so decisive in a pitched battle. A sling bullet can achieve ranges in excess of 400 metres. Their range was on par with longbows for any realistic use. Legionaries carried and used them, because slings were lightweight, cheap and effective. The cursus honorum was different. For the Romans to serve as an officer in the legion was not a meant to have a political career, a political career was something that only a successful officer could have. To be a good commander was the base of the political career. 1st centuries Roman armies were exceptionally well commanded. They were the peak of centuries of development in organised formation battles. From a Roman point of view, wedieval battles were only disorganized brawls. The first of the "couple of loose things" is incomprehensible, sorry. As already said, multiple times medieval cavalry charges had been stopped by infantry that had not long pikes and was much less disciplined than the Roman one. Cataphracts charged with spears, and their horses were better protected than average medieval ones. Stirrups had been ad advancement, but not a revolution.
    1
  721. I already said the only times when knights beaten infantry was when the infantry was very undisciplined, chosen an unfavourable position, was bad led, etc. Dude, read about horses. They don't don't crush into dense packs of spears bristling infantry, infact dense packs of spears bristling infantry stopped them many times. Medieval knights had the advantage that usually they fought vs. very undisciplined militias, whose formations were very easy to disrupt. Square musketeers worked because horses dont crush into dense packs of spears bristling infantry. Sorry, they have a range of 400m. Slings outrange bows for purely physical reasons (bullets, even when they are simple stones, loose less energy than arrows during flight, are less influenced by wind too, and Romans often used lead bullets, far more energy efficient) . Denegate uncomfortable truths is not going to bring you anywere. Slings had been used in war well into medieval times. They stopped being only with the diffusion of crossbows. " I have slyngs smort and goode The best archer of ilk one I durst meet him with a stone And gif him lefe to shoot There is no bow that shall laste To draw to my slynges cast" ("King Edward and the Shepherd" 14th century poem) Sorry dude, but I know the difference between strategy, tactics and micro tactics, and I think that you simply don't recognise the difference between ancient and medieval battles. In Roman battle accounts you know the tactics they and their enemies used, because tactic was important for the Romans, and so they described them. In Medieval battle accounts, tactic was rarely described and, when it was, almost everything seemed to happen by chance, because tactic was not considered important (and infact armies were "led from the front" even in late medieval times). Roman officers were supposed to have been trained in tactic, medieval commanders weren't, and, again, medieval cavalry had problems even with medieval militia infantries, worse armored, commanded, and less disciplined than the Romans were. I already took Legnano as a sample. You said: "without them you can't charge with lance.". That's simply not true. Cataphracts charged with spears, and their horses were better protected than average medieval ones (because they were in ancient times, and they know organized infantries would have targeted the horses). Stirrups had been ad advancement, but not a revolution. With stirrups the knight could charge having more hitting power for his lance, but that's an advancement, not a revolution, because cavalry charges are not stopped opposing a human body to the tip of the lance but opposing a spear, an obstacle, or both, to the horse.
    1
  722. You can write it some more time. It doesn't make it real. More, it can be reversed. It seems that Cavalry could win only when the enemy infantry chose an unfavourable position, chose to fight in loose formation, wasn't trained, didn't prepare the terrain or themself at all, even with simple tricks like grouping around a symbol (the Romans did, their insigna). You don't like Legnano? How about golden spurs? There the secret weapon was a 90-150 cm long spear-club that had not been particularly successful before or after? Humans are afraid, but humans can chose to act in a way that overcome fear, especially if they know that break the formation and flee will more easily led to their death. Discipline works this way, and Romans were disciplined. Infantries that medieval knights usually fought weren't. Sorry, but your whole reasoning about sling is just rubbish both from physical and real stand point. Arrows have a much larger drag coefficient due to the large surface area of the arrow shaft and feathers. This is reflected in the very low ballistic coefficient for an arrow compared to bullets. Moreover, sling bullets naturally spin in air, Arrows does not spin significatively during flight, so they loose speed first. Both ancient accounts and modern test states the longer range of the sling. Legionaries using slings in mass shooting is asserted both by ancient sources and modern archaeological findings, IE at Burnswark Hill. I didn't say medievals didn't use any tactic. I said that the importance of tactic vas less stressed in mediaval times, both in accounts, training, and method of command. Romans using tactic is not exactly a secret. Almost every account of Roman battles of contemporary authors described the tactic used. The tactic used in most medieval battles is not described, and often had to be guessed. Cavalry charges had been stopped/disrupted by short spears and simple ranged weapons. Infact the medieval chain of command wasn't apt to direct large battles. The larger the battle, the more the Roman advantage. You have not to "develop" the charge with lance under arm. It's fairly natural to use it that way on a horse. As already said stirrups had been ad advancement, but not a revolution. With stirrups the knight could charge having more hitting power for his lance, but cavalry charges are not stopped opposing a human body to the tip of the lance but opposing a spear, an obstacle, or both, to the horse. Actually the greater advantage of the stirrups came confronting with other riders, not infantrymen. I talked about PROTECTION FOR HORSES. The Cataphracts, on average armoured their horses much more than even late medieval knights. They lived at the peak of the era of organized infantry, and it was taken for granted that the enemy, infantry would have targeted the horses. Medieval knights were used to much softer targets.
    1
  723. "But this is untrue." Only it's true. Medieval knights had the advantage that usually they fought vs. very undisciplined militias, whose formations were very easy to disrupt. The rare times disciplined (not Roman-level disciplined, only a little more disciplined than hastly formed militias) infantries showed up, they won. When disciplined infantries became the norm, it had been the end of the shock cavalry. "I just wrote that legnano prove my point." You can write it, that doesn't make it true. The Lombard league infantry was just barely more trained and motivated than the usual medieval infantry (it was a citizen's militia anyway), used the easiest trick one can think of to mantain the unity of the formation, and that had been enough. "You meant battle of when Flemish..."...were just barely more trained, motivated and armored than the usual medieval infantry (citizen's militia anyway), chose to not fight in the ideal cavalry's playground, and that had been enough. "Sorry but this is just theory" Sorry, but that's reality. That's how training and discipline works, and Legionaries were more trained and disciplined (and even better armored) than any medieval infantry. Cavalry charges were not stopped targeting the knights, but targetting the horses. "Just BS whole of it." You can ignore reality if you want, that doesn't change it. Arrows have a much larger drag coefficient due to the large surface area of the arrow shaft and feathers. This is reflected in the very low ballistic coefficient for an arrow compared to bullets. Moreover, sling bullets naturally spin in air, Arrows does not spin significatively during flight (a dozen revolutions a second means little), so they loose speed first. Both ancient accounts and modern test states the longer range of the sling. The shape of the arrow tip head has very little effect at subsonic speed. The form of the tail is more important, and unfortunately, due to the feathers, the arrow is very poor. The calculated drag coefficient under 100ms for arrows is around 2.0 (1.6 for modern day competition arrows with streamlined point and tail), while for bullets is between 0.2 and 0.3, and is around 0.5 for a sphere. The actual world record for sling throwing is 431m with a stone and 471m with a metallic bullet. "Im almost certain they meant auxilary slingers not main legionares." The ability of the Balearic slingers was legendary, but many bullets found had latin inscriptions on them and, again, the practice of the sling by legionaries had been reported. "You know this is logical error - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" You know this is a logical error. You can'd adfirm something existed because there isn't any proof of it, and "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". We KNOW because there are evidences of that, that tactic was important for the Romans. We know specialized works on tactic existed and were renown in Roman times. We know how Roman generals prepared the battle and reacted to the development of them. The importance of tactic vas less stressed in medieval times, both in accounts, training, and method of command, because the method of command used couldn't sustain any complex tactic. "Again give me some evidence of that" Already did. "Not true, in Medieval times there were no one rule" The "one rule" was that the medieval chain of command was too simple to effectively coordinate large armies. Still in late medieval times, and that's the case of Agincourt, the armies were led from the front. "you cant charge with lance under arms without stirrups, becasue you fall from horse." Falling or not from horse is only a question of how much force you impart to the hit. Thanks to the stirrups, Medieval knights could impart more force to their hits, even more than what a single arm could sustain, so they developed the lance rest (late 14th century). But, as already said, cavalry charges are not stopped opposing a human body to the tip of the lance but opposing a spear, an obstacle, or both, to the horse. Actually the greater advantage of the stirrups came confronting with other riders, not infantrymen. "Depend of the time, and knigts money." The time is that of the battle of Agincourt, and we can say that Cataphracts, ON AVERAGE (on average means that we are not confronting the richest and more armoured knight vs the poorest and less armoured cataphract, but what they used ON AVERAGE in battle) armoured their horses much more than even late medieval knights. "Tell how late pikemen in Brigandine..." Why should I? Late pikemen in brigandines were not even medievals, let alone the usual targets of medieval knights.
    1
  724. "Funny beacuse you can say the same about romans" Really not. Romans lived at the peak of centuries of development of organized infantry battles, and usually won. "Give me one example of that," Already did. You only don't like them. Want more? Almogavars repeatedly beaten the French Cavalry, and all they generally had were a pair of javelins (with wich they targeted the horses), a short spear and a knife. "Partialy true." Heavy cavalry disappeared in short time. Light cavalry survived employing new tactics (like that of the Stradiots) that closely resembled those used by the Cavalry in Roman Times. "never discypline infantry with short sword ans shield defend against charge." Romans not only had short swords and shield. "From what I found they were good train and armored. And fact that you think that city militia was bad trains meant you dont know nothing." Unfortunately this reasoning shows that You know nothing. The infantry of the Lombard Legue, like the Flemish one, were barely at the level of the pre-Marian reform Roman Army (an army of non-professional, yet motivated, citizens. Barely because Romans had however a form of organized training since childhood). Professional Legionaries were completely different beasts. They were the ones that build 31km of fortifications (the Caesar's side) vs 28km (Pompey's side) at Dyrrhachium. War was not only their job. They already industrialized it. In middle age there had not been anything remotely comparable. "Sorry so you say that romans never run? never panicked?" Please, spare the straw men for someone else. "Yes, but must have posibility to target horse, with so short weapons you cant that. You only can attack horse after lanc hit first row and most of this row is dead." Horses don't crash into tight formations of spear bristling infantry. "You know that why people uses polearm and pikes?" Because that way to resist to charges is easier. Even Romans knew that. The "anti cavalry circle" was an emergency formation. At Pharsalus, foreseeing that Pompey would have tried to use his strong cavalry to break trough his right flank, Caesar prepared a line of spearmen. Having a little more time (few hours, not more) Romans could make any field completely impervious to cavalry. As already said, they already industrialised warfare. "Bla bla show me some proof" The Guinness book of records is not proof enough to you? Despite a much wider base of archers rehenactors none came close to 400m employing a longbow reproduction, while amateur slingers can exceed that distance even throwing simple stones. the drag coefficient of arrows had been calculated many times (IE H. O. Meyer "Applications of Physics to Archery", Physics Department, Indiana University, obtained 1.94 ± 0.14), that of bullets and spheres is available even on wikipedia. "Again proof." Again, it had been reported, and archaeological findings confirms it. "Again not all armiers were led from the front," Cavalry heavy armies usually were, unless the commander was too old for it. In this case often another, younger, one was chosen to lead the army from the front anyway. When the army was not led from the front, the command chain was however no notably different. The commander could see better, but not command better. And that's why those armies kept on being commanded from the front until late middle age. In Roman times a Tribune could take the initiative (and they often did, IE at Cynoscephalae), because he saw a good occasion, or a danger. In Medieval times each small group had the initiative because there was no way to coordinate them anyway. It was the only possibility. Please, do not invent "logic errors". Are you that are confusing simple or complex chain of command, with winning or losing at Agincourt. It's obvious that, even in a brawl, someone wins in the end. "Because importance of tactic was less stressed in medieval times dont meant that they dont use tactics and that individuals could not be great with command." But we are not talking about individuals. We are talking about a social and military system that valued tactic, described tactic, and produced specific works about tactic that the commanders were able to read and appreciated, with a social and military system that didn't. "That funny and show that you know nothing." That's funny and show that you know nothing. The lance rest was not used to simply hold the weight of the lance, but to arrest the rearward movement of the weapon.
    1
  725. 1 I already did you all the infos. It simply seems that you refuse to read them, or your brain refuses to process them after you read. Physics is exactly the reason why longbows have shorter range than slings (compound bows outrange slings, but they weren't available at the time) 1,1 bows and crossbows HAD advantages over the sling, simply the range wasn't among them. Slings requires more training than bows to be used accurately (and crossbows requires even less training), so bows had an advantage for hunting and, once a society formed bowmen for hunting, it's easier to go further and train them for war than to replace the weapon entirely. Bows and crossbows can be used on ships and horses (slings requires space). Bowmen formations can be more packed (and so more easily protected by fences and trenches). But, in a confrontation between Romans and medievals, this has little meaning, because the Roman slingers were already trained. 2 You simply ignored all the examples given saying that they werent valid because the cavalry wasn't in it's ideal conditions, or because you didn't know them. Yeah. Romans used makeshift anti cavalry weapons. Or accurately prepared anti cavalry weapons. It was because they know what cavalry was and how to cope with it. That's exactly why cavalry is not a "win it all" weapon against them. 2,2 I already did actually. An armor is not some sort of impenetrable forcefield. Heavy armored late medieval knights had been killed by a lot of weapons that were not better at coping specifically with armors than those the Romans had. Falchions, daggers, short spears, and so on, even agricultural tools killed knights. 3 And, with those better charge techniques, longer lances, bigger horses ect. they had been stopped multiple times by infantry formations, less disciplined and trained than the Romans and without Swiss pikes. 4,1 Again, that's a straw men you built and continue to answer to. I never told of specific cases of bad leadership. I told of chain of command, literacy level, consideration for the tactic, education to it. "Yea, but in middle age there had been some gifted commander anyway" is not an answer like isn't "Romans lost this battle, so they were shit".
    1
  726. 1 I gave you the info and the references. You simply decided to ignore them. Besides, YOU DIDN'T PROVIDE ANYTHING TO BACK YOUR CLAIMS 1.1 Sorry, but bows requires less training to be used accurately for hunting (where no super strong bows are required). Once your society has formed bowmen for hunting, it requires less time to obtain bowmen for war simply training them to use bows with heavier draw weight than to replace the weapon entirely. But, in a confrontation between Romans and medievals, this has little meaning, because the Roman slingers were already trained. 2 err... no. In neither of those battles the infantry was armed with "long poleweapons". In one they had normal spears no different from the ones the same Romans used (yeah, Romans knew spears and used them even if they weren't their primary weapon), in another they had short spears-clubs. As already said, Almogavars repeatedly beaten the French Cavalry, and all they generally had were a pair of javelins (with wich they targeted the horses), a short spear and a knife. They didn't search a terrain that was ideal for the cavalry to fight. Why should they had? Mind that Legnano was an "encounter battle", so the infantry prepared its line in haste. They didn't had the time to find any particular terrain. 2.2 You are so wrong. Plate armors are full of gaps to target. "half swording" infact was needed to be accurate enough to target them with a longsword. But to have knigtly weapons was no needed to kill a knight. Heavy armored late medieval knights had been killed by a lot of weapons that were not better at coping specifically with armors than those the Romans had. Falchions, daggers, short spears, and so on, even agricultural tools killed knights. 3 To call "idiotic" and "stupid" what you don't like, or understand, is not making you any favor. You are not particularly impressive, and the use of insults doesn't enhance the level of your arguments. Besides, "discipline is everything" is just another straw man of you. I never said it. If it's idiotic, it's only thank to you, because YOU wrote it. Yeah, medieval cavalry often won. But medieval cavalry NEVER faced a an infantry disciplined, trained, and tactically deployed at Roman level. When medieval cavalry faced an infantry that was barely above the level of "hastly formed militia" they were used to fight, the medieval cavalry often lost, and without the infantry having to use superweapons. Cavalry existed in Roman times. it's not like they didn't know horses. 4.1 To lie is not doing you any favor. I never told of specific cases of bad leadership. I told of chain of command, literacy level, consideration for the tactic, education to it. You simply didn't demonstrate "late medieval combine arms" having any superiority actually. Romans combined: ENGINEERING, heavy infantry, light infantry, heavy ranged weapons, light ranged weapons, cavalry, elephants sometimes, allied troops using their specific weapons and so on, deploying them in complex formations and purposedly tactically moving them during the fight at any level (from the single legionaries switching lines to entire legions moving). In many medieval battles it didn't seem there was any "coordination" actually, the troops only were there, and it's not suprising, since medieval armies were usually led from the front, where the commander couldn't coordinate anything.
    1
  727. 1
  728. 1
  729. 1
  730. 1
  731. 1
  732.  @silver4831  I'm not forgetting. Here we were talking about HISTORICAL battlefields. Maybe you should have guessed reading about shields and warhammers, or the expression "War was a physical thing back then". Simply female soldiers, like any soldier, NOW are carried on the battlefield on truck and their job is to pull a trigger. Physical requirements to be an effective soldier had been changed by technology. NOW in many conflicts there are children soldiers too. They are cheap. That's because automatic firearms changed the conditions on the battlefield. IN THE PAST, to use children on a battlefield would have been considered ridiculous BEFORE being considered cruel. Because a dozen of children would not have been a threat for a single men. As for training, I already answered (you are being willfully ignorant about this?) "War was a physical thing back then, much more than now. It had nothing to do whit few minutes of sparring, and to have bigger muscles and more stamina was a HUGE advantage. Women, apart few exceptions, weren't taken to the battlefield for the same reasons children and old people didn't, because IRL, in a melee, a 50kg woman doesn't stand a chance vs a 70kg man unless she trained MUCH more, but training for troops is a resource. It's not free, it has a cost. If you need more training for female soldiers to reach the same levels of male ones, then you are using the resource "training" inefficiently. Almost any army that had a possibility on the matter estabilished minimum height and fitness standards. IE you had to be at least 1.65m high to join the Legion. That excluded many potential exceptional warriors? Yes, but training is a scarce resource, and it's inefficient to vaste it on the weaklings to search for the exceptions."
    1
  733. 1
  734. 1
  735. 1
  736. 1
  737. 1
  738. 1
  739. 1
  740. 1
  741. 1
  742. 1
  743. 1
  744. 1
  745. 1
  746. 1
  747. 1
  748. 1
  749. 1
  750. 1
  751. 1
  752. 1
  753. 1
  754.  @tylerstevenson8085  You stated: "the majority of sea trade was done by shallow hulled coastal ships" like it was of some significance. The majority of people didn't ride horses, so horses didnt' exist? I feel like you're glossing over the entire point of this comment chain The original comment said that romans lost 100.000 men in a storm in 255 BC, so, since the Med. is calmer than the Atlantic, Roman ships could have not gotten anywere near to America. Now: 1) "Roman times" is not all the same. Third century BC was at the very beginning of the Roman experiences at sea. 2) Vikings surely knew how to navigate the Atlantic, but Mediterranean storms sunk their ships too. It's not like navigating the Med is a joke, and the Atlantic is the real thing. 3) Romans normally sailed through the ocean in Imperial time. Another one, but ocean neverthless. Then you came and blabbered some nonsense about the sea route from India to Rome not being a Sea route because the city of Rome couldn't be reached directly from India by Sea. Now you are talking of percentages like you really know something about them. There were Roman commercial outposts in southern India and, while ancient sources talk about how to reach them by sea, none talks about how to reach them by land because, face that, MOST of the commerce with India was made by sea because, AS ALWAYS, commerce by sea was HUGELY more economically efficient. It seems you are more than a little confused. I never stated the Romans were capable of "accurately and safely" doing anything. The original comment said that romans lost 100.000 men in a storm in 255 BC, so, since the Med. is calmer than the Atlantic, Roman ships could have not gotten anywere near to America. Now: 1) "Roman times" is not all the same. Third century BC was at the very beginning of the Roman experiences at sea. 2) Vikings surely knew how to navigate the Atlantic, but Mediterranean storms sunk their ships too. It's not like navigating the Med is a joke, and the Atlantic is the real thing. 3) Romans normally sailed through the ocean in Imperial time. Another one, but ocean neverthless.
    1
  755. 1
  756. 1
  757. 1
  758. 1
  759. 1
  760. 1
  761. 1
  762. 1
  763. 1
  764. 1
  765. 1
  766. 1
  767. 1
  768. 1
  769. 1
  770. 1
  771. 1
  772. 1
  773. 1
  774. 1
  775. 1
  776. 1
  777. 1
  778. 1
  779. 1
  780. 1
  781. The problem was the number. Mongols conquered many fortified cities, and many fortresses located in strategic points. Because they were important and worth the effort. Because even having the right equipment and know-how, to take even a small fortress needed weeks, or months, and a far larger army. That's why they had been so successful for so long. It was a very expensive warfare for the attackers. In western Europe there were tens of thousands of fortresses whose garrisons were capable to resist for weeks or months against far larger armies, and dividing the horde in multiple small columns to attack many fortresses at the same time was a bad idea. Already in the first invasion, it had been noticed that Europeans tended to win small scale engagements. The real difference was the Mongol chain of command, capable to effectively cohordinate tens of thousands of men in pitched battles, while European commanders still led from the front, so knew what was happening only close to them. In the subsequent attempts of invasion, Hungarians and Poles exploited that advantage. They built more fortresses, increased the number of mounted units, and divided the campaign into multiple small engagements instead of seeking big pitched battles. Then there is the fact that in Europe, praires ends in Hungary (that's why both the Huns and the Hungars came there before the Mongols). Western Europe was more forested, and so much less favourable to steppe riders. Mongols had big problems in Indochina and Korea because of that.
    1
  782. 1
  783. 1
  784. 1
  785. 1
  786. 1
  787. 1
  788. 1
  789. 1
  790. 1
  791. 1
  792. 1
  793. 1
  794. 1
  795. 1
  796. 1
  797. 1
  798. 1
  799. 1
  800. 1
  801. 1
  802. 1
  803. 1
  804. 1
  805. 1
  806. 1
  807. 1
  808. 1
  809. 1
  810. 1
  811. 1
  812. 1
  813. 1
  814. 1
  815. 1
  816. 1
  817. 1
  818. 1
  819. 1
  820. 1
  821. 1
  822. 1
  823. 1
  824. 1
  825. 1
  826. 1
  827. 1
  828. 1
  829. 1
  830. 1
  831. 1
  832. 1
  833. 1
  834. 1
  835. 1
  836. 1
  837. The problem was the number. Mongols conquered many fortified cities, and many fortresses located in strategic points. Because they were important and worth the effort. Because even having the right equipment and know-how, to take even a small fortress needed weeks, or months, and a far larger army. That's why they had been so successful for so long. It was a very expensive warfare for the attackers. In western Europe there were tens of thousands of fortresses whose garrisons were capable to resist for weeks or months against far larger armies, and dividing the horde in multiple small columns to attack many fortresses at the same time was a bad idea. Already in the first invasion, it had been noticed that Europeans tended to win small scale engagements. The real difference was the Mongol chain of command, capable to effectively cohordinate tens of thousands of men in pitched battles, while European commanders still led from the front, so knew what was happening only close to them. In the subsequent attempts of invasion, Hungarians and Poles exploited that advantage. They built more fortresses, increased the number of mounted units, and divided the campaign into multiple small engagements instead of seeking big pitched battles. Then there is the fact that in Europe, praires ends in Hungary (that's why both the Huns and the Hungars came there before the Mongols). Western Europe was more forested, and so much less favourable to steppe riders. Mongols had big problems in Indochina and Korea because of that.
    1
  838. 1
  839. 1
  840. 1
  841. 1
  842. 1
  843. 1
  844. 1
  845. 1
  846. 1
  847. 1
  848. 1
  849. 1
  850. 1
  851. 1
  852. 1
  853. 1
  854. 1
  855. 1
  856. 1
  857. 1
  858. 1
  859. 1
  860. 1
  861. 1
  862. 1
  863. 1
  864. 1
  865. 1
  866. 1
  867. 1
  868. 1
  869. 1
  870. 1
  871. 1
  872. 1
  873. 1
  874. 1
  875. 1
  876. 1
  877. 1
  878. 1
  879. 1
  880. 1
  881. 1
  882. 1
  883. 1
  884. 1
  885. 1
  886. 1
  887. 1
  888. 1
  889. 1
  890. 1
  891. 1
  892. 1
  893. 1
  894. 1
  895. 1
  896. 1
  897. 1
  898. 1
  899. 1
  900. 1
  901. 1
  902. 1
  903. 1
  904. 1
  905. 1
  906. 1
  907. 1
  908. 1
  909. 1
  910. 1
  911. 1
  912. 1
  913.  @chisome8465  You are really sporting credentials on a Youtube comment section? LOL! First than accusing someone of "lying" you should at least understand what he's saying, a thing you are evidently unable to do. You can check the Libu chief depicted on the throne of Ramesses III, light skinned tatooed and with an hooked nose. Egyptians actually depicted Libyans as having a fairer skin than themselves, and that makes sense, since the "Egyptian" type was a medium between the inhabitants of upper (closer to Nubia) and lower (Mediterranean) Egypt, while the Libyans were all Mediterranean. The Egyptians depicted themselves as VERY different form the Nubian neighbors, that had dark skin and typical black traits, while the other Mediterranean civilizations were depicted as Egyptians with a different hat (and maybe beard, and a hooked nose). You don't have to use " the word you westerners use to group us". None but you is doing that. As already said: "So why not use a North African actor to play the part of a North African general? There is scarcity of them? How much do you bet that the part of Massinissa will NOT be played by a Berber, but it will be played by someone of black African descent too? Why this need to cancel the other African cultures?" West africa, Nigeria, Etiopia and so on ARE NOT NORTH AFRICA. Sicily, heck, even Berlin, is closer to Chartage than Nigeria. N. Africa being Black before the Arab invasion is 100% bullshit. You stated "I’m talking about before anyone came!", not "before the Greeks came". It' not my fault if you are unable to write. Again, you don't know what the color of the skin of the neolithic inhabitants of N. Africa was, or how much straight was their nose.
    1
  914. 1
  915. 1
  916. 1
  917. 1
  918. 1
  919. 1
  920. 1
  921. 1
  922. 1
  923. 1
  924. 1
  925. 1
  926. 1
  927. 1
  928. 1
  929. 1
  930. 1
  931. 1
  932. 1
  933. 1
  934. 1
  935. 1
  936. 1
  937. 1
  938. 1
  939. 1
  940. 1
  941. 1
  942. 1
  943. 1
  944. 1
  945. 1
  946. 1
  947. 1
  948. 1
  949. 1
  950. 1
  951. 1
  952. 1
  953. 1
  954. 1
  955. 1
  956. 1
  957. 1
  958. 1
  959. 1
  960. 1
  961. 1
  962. 1
  963. 1
  964. 1
  965. 1
  966. 1
  967. 1
  968. 1
  969. 1
  970. 1
  971. In all likelyhood the Iliad is based on a real war, but Troy being the city on the Hisarlik hill is debatable. We know it was considered that in Hellenistic and Roman period (on the Hisarlik hill there was the Hellenistic/Roman city of Ilion), but we also know that it was a tourist attraction. In Hellenistic period, in "Troy", there were, IE, the tombs of heroes that didn't even die there. There's no guarantee that the entire city wasn't a tourist trap. And infact Strabo (1ts century BCE) thought it was a fake. The city on Hisarlik hill had been abandoned at the start of the Iron Age, before being rebuilt at the time of Alexander. It's entirely possible that, at the end of the "Greek dark age", when the poems on the Trojan war had become famous, people started to search for the city sung there in the region of the Troad, but the memory of the real location had been lost. Then the people that lived around Hissarlik hill reasoned "look at the fine ruins we have here. The shore, the rivers, all seems pretty similar to the poem. And all these people are searching for Troy. Let's THIS be Troy." and proceeded to make Santa Claus' village. Then Santa Claus' village influenced the later narrations of the poem, so the location and the poem became even more alike. Infact the location is pretty similar, yes, but none of the Hisarlik's city strata really line up with the events of the poem. We have to mix up two separate levels to have a big city in the Mycenean period (but destroyed by an heartquake, not a war), and a city destroyed by a war (but too late for the Myceneans to have done that).
    1
  972. 1
  973. 1
  974. 1
  975. 1
  976. 1
  977. 1
  978. 1
  979. 1
  980. 1
  981. 1
  982. 1
  983. 1
  984. 1
  985. 1
  986. 1
  987. 1
  988. 1
  989. 1
  990. 1
  991. 1
  992. 1
  993. 1
  994. 1
  995. 1
  996. 1
  997. 1
  998. 1
  999. 1
  1000. 1
  1001. 1
  1002. 1
  1003. 1
  1004. 1
  1005. 1
  1006. 1
  1007. 1