Comments by "ZIPZ" (@zipz8423) on "Donald Trump Invites Nigel Farage On Rally Stage FNN" video.
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*****
Why would you like the UK to leave the EU?
There is no foot dragging, the UK has been intrinsically linked to the EU for more than 40 years, EU laws and legislation are written into our statute books.
The disentanglement is an immense task , daunting for a civil service which is far too small to do the job in short order.
In fact its impossible.
Haste will be destructive, it will take a department of 3,000 civil servants 2 years to do the job and since the Tory government made thousands redundant, its not even possible currently.
Some of the legislation and law changes will take Acts Of Parliament with a debate and voting to change.
We will not overturn every single law but that is another great task, deciding which legislation to change, to what, and which ones we are going to keep, its a hot mess.
The UK does not require permission from any other country to leave the EU.
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"Well firstly, most people in the UK don't share your enthusiasm for freedom of movement."
Faulty premise, what do you base this on? Remember, only 34% of the electorate voted to leave the EU.
"It's understandable that British people feel differently about open borders because they don't benefit in the same way"
The same opportunities exist for all EU citizens including us here in the UK, it is also obvious that citizens from the poorer EU countries are going to flock to the thriving UK economy rather than seeing an exodus from UK shores, why would we?
We have it good.
In any case, 1.2 Million Brits live and work abroad in the EU.
(Source Migrationwatch UK).
Its a little arrogant to suggest "most of the UK feel differently regards freedom of movement" without the data to back that assertion up especially when you accept that only 34% of the electorate voted to leave.
If you want to use that as a measure it makes your assertion difficult to swallow.
EU Migrants to the UK do not claim benefits, only 2.5% of them claim benefits, another BREXIT myth to fuel their fallacies. I am not going to list the rest, you already know what they are.
"You use the term "xenophobia" which indicates that the opposition to mass immigration is completely irrational. But when you see what's happening in places such as Germany, Sweden and France, you'd be pretty insane to suggest that people shouldn't have legitimate concerns."
Now then, do you know why I know its completely irrational? It is because I have studied each allegation and got to the truth, something your Murdoch/Tory press machine has shielded you from.
Sweden for example, the rape capital of the world apparently and it has been caused predominantly by Migrants from OUTSIDE of the EU, which by the way is nothing to do with BREXIT
When you look more closely, its nonsense by any measure, the Swedish Authorities decided to classify their crimes differently which led to a massive jump in recorded "Sex offences".
The same jump would happen in the UK if we used the Swedish model.
Its false narrative.
"Germany"even "France", in terms of crime, terrorist incidents which have affected individuals are at levels of fractions of 1%, to determine a xenophobic national response or strategy is insanity, over reaction and irrational when you see that you are more likely to die eating a Peach than you are at the hands of terrorists.
The "mass rapes" happening in Cologne didn't actually happen.
It gets worse for you, the migrants accused of these crimes are not EU citizens in the main apart from some of the terror suspects from France and Germany.
Why do you want to prejudice or penalise Poles and Romanians working legally in the UK because of press hysteria because of events happening in other EU countries, perceived or real?
Sloth from The Goonies
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"There's also the fact that Britain struggles more to take in mass numbers of migrants due to its size."
Rhetoric.
Where is your evidence?
"England is already one of the most densely populated major nations in the world, and mas immigration has placed tremendous pressure upon schools, hospitals, public services and housing."
More rhetoric, can you prove any of this, if not, why do you so readily believe it?
I have looked into every allegation put forward by the BREXIT campaign and it came up empty in 90% of the cases regards immigration.
I DO know there is pressure on social housing, but it has not been created by immigrants, its been created by past Tory governments selling off social housing to relieve the state of that expenditure and the housing was never replaced.
The cost to the NHS in accommodating immigrants is a tiny fraction of the NHS budget, I can provide verifiable sources for anything I have said but I do not think reading it will make any difference to you.
"The EU often shows complete disregard for democracy, sovereignty and national identity."
You think this way because you have never bothered to take the time to study how the EU actually works, your emotional response is based on fear of the Niqab, fear of people conversing in Slavic tongues and seeing Extremist Clerics marching on social media , the icing on your xenophobia has been deliberately spread on top by the Murdoch press machine with Tory connivance.
Your entire stance against the EU is based on intolerance, racism, lack of understanding and an emotional response.
Rationality and logic have not been a participant, you simply swallowed the Farrage Kool Aid and oh how he worked you.
Sloth from The Goonies
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"I don't consider the views of people who don't vote, because they're practically worthless."
Haha, well thats bloody convenient for you isn't it Sloth. If you are going to think that way then you need to adjust the Major premise in your argument. How about;
"34% of the UK electorate "may" not see free movement of people as a good thing, that is as close as you can get to the truth without adding the added salt ingredient of Right Wing Dogma.
"Opinion polls consistently show that immigration is one of the key issues for the UK voters"
Stating the obvious, it was the only thing LEAVE drones talked about, leaving the EU only became popular after free movement brought primarily Poles to the UK to legally work.
Everything else including this idea of the UK losing its sovereignty and our trade being in a better position post EU is smoke and mirrors.
"Racism".
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"Tribalism"
the behaviour and attitudes that stem from strong loyalty to one's own tribe or social group.
"Nativism"
- the political position of supporting a favored status for certain established inhabitants of a nation as compared to claims of newcomers or immigrants. According to Fetzer, (2000) opposition to immigration is common in many countries because of issues of national, cultural, and religious identity-
Those three concepts sum up BREXIT, this is what it is about, the same ingredients which fed Nationalism and Fascism in the 1920s and 30`s.
History is our best teacher, learn from it.
"The opportunity to exist to jump in your car and go to another EU nation (except the Irish border) without dealing with border checks"
Last time I checked, the UK had no open borders, we are not part of Schengen.
"EU Migrants to the UK do not claim benefits, only 2.5% of them claim benefits, another BREXIT myth to fuel their fallacies. I am not going to list the rest, you already know what they are.
I never even specifically listed that as an issue."
LEAVE consistently added this point to their rhetoric.
"The EU Schengen Area, and the pro-Islamic migrant line taken by European leaders such as Merkel has exacerbated the situation."
Rhetoric, again, where is your evidence? Merkel`s line is pro Refugee, religion has nothing to do with it.
"the chnage in the Swedish model was to prevent the police form including the ETHNICITY of the perpetrator on crime reports. Which is essentially an attempt to cover up the issue."
It isn't ethnicity alone though is it Sloth? Nice omission, this has been done to prevent stigmatization of certain ethnic groups as fuel for the Right. I will say that the policy of omitting certain data has been a mistake because it helps Right wingers like you control the narrative when you put two and two together and come up with 5.
The truth is, unless you have access to Swedish crime figures before they are screened prior to release you cannot know one way or the other.
"You seem to think that i'm referring to just terrorist killings. Certain amounts of crime, especially sex offenses, have skyrocketed in Germany"
Where are your numbers Sloth? I am seeing nothing, its empty rhetoric, nobody with an ounce of sense or integrity is going to swallow this, well, apart from Racists, the Right wing and UKIPPERs.
On the myth of the Cologne Rapes.
"That's a case of extreme denial. The media reported it, the police admitted to it, and eventually leading German politicians admitted to it,"
You are lying again Sloth.
"On Friday, the Cologne prosecutor Ulrich Bremer in fact told me that, of the 59 suspects pinpointed so far, just four are from war-torn countries (Syria and Iraq), only 14 are in custody, and nobody has yet been charged. Nearly 600 hours of CCTV reveals very little, and there is no evidence whatsoever that the alleged attacks were planned"
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/cologne-sex-assaults-muslim-rape-myths-fit-a-neo-nazi-agenda-a6872566.html
Sloth, your arguments are without any kind of proof, no verifyable sources or information, no context, faulty premises with zero credibility, which have led to illogical conclusions.
I mean really, if you want to convince everyone you are not talking completely out of your arse, learn to construct a proper argument.
What you have presented is weak, illogical Right Wing fallacy and rhetoric.
Overall a fail.
Sloth from The Goonies
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"England has the highest population density, the highest house prices, some of the longest waiting times for GP appointments, the second lowest numbers of available hospital beds per person, some the most overcrowded schools, etc."
So, how have Migrants caused these conditions Sloth, or is it make believe?
Why do you believe the RIght`s dogma with no evidence?
"So instead of engaging me in a rational discussion over the workings of EU democracy you just want to take the lazy leftist line of instead just calling me am ignorant xenophobe"
I have actively and consistently asked you questions, you have chosen to not answer those questions, all you have done is carry out a right wing rant of every myth, false narrative and blatant lie propagated by the Right, you have provided ZERO proof to back up a single thing you have said, I am ready to engage with you in a reasoned debate, but you keep running away from it Sloth.
Let me help you construct a reasoned argument .
1. Make a statement.
2. Support that statement..
3. Support that statement with evidence.
Premise
Inference
Conclusion.
You have done none of the above.
Sloth from The Goonies
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