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MountainMaid
Q+A with Jack Tame
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Comments by "MountainMaid" (@MountainMaid238) on "Q+A with Jack Tame" channel.

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@alethein359 I see what you did - you applied a non-Māori perspective of reasoning, speculated, and applied a non-Māori conclusion. That isnt how the Chiefs saw it, which is why the breach is recorded in all the Māori ways of recording data, passed on throughout the generations, and present today. It is why article 1 and 2 are decidedly different, otherwise article 2 would be a repeat of article 1. They clearly wanted the queen to sort out her riff raff without losing anything in the process. The only person the Chiefs were expecting to have to share any status with was the queen, not people like Hobson. Him having any power over them made no sense - was he Queen Victoria? No. In their eyes he was one of her subjects, closer to the help. Maori never ceded.
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Your comment proves the lack of maturity, jesus the paranoia
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@StGammon77 I don't know where you live, but over 500 Māori chiefs signed one document - therefore by shear numbers is that the Mother document?
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@solethesis In Māoridom before colonisation, you live on in your descendants, and the mana of today can influence our ancestors. Time was not linear but cyclical, and we are they and they are we. Non-Māori are more individualistic. This is part of the misunderstanding and why trying to shove everyone into one way of thinking/being is problematic.
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@alethein359 So incredibly and incompetently wrong, and your lack of understanding and ability to comprehend is not my problem. Most chiefs signed Te Tīriti and you're quoting Article 1 and 2 of the treaty which is not the same. The Māori version 1. is governance, 2. is retaining of sovereignty and ability to sell. There's the logical difference. There's your introduction.
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@neil3488 So forcefully assimilated is the same as willingly ceded??
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@neil3488 Ngata may have said that, and I don't know why, but he is one person. There are thousands of voices from generations of hapu and Iwi who have evidence from Tūpuna who signed proving that sovereignty was never ceded. And my evidence is in Te Reo and belong to hapu, so not mine to give without earning it.
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@alethein359 You are unable to see the perspective of the Indigenous of this country, so your view is naturally unbalanced and to believe otherwise is indeed arrogant. Own your myopia and accept your shortcomings.
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@Kult365 Yeah I think you're right, I'm reading some predisposed rhetoric rather than authentic research
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@MylesR0bert123 Exactly. Perfect
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@StGammon77 Not in the Māori version
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@neil3488 What international law? Because we also have UNDRIP
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@alethein359 Oh hello Mr Lawyer, are you also a Psychologist too? Why are you administering IQ tests?
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@neil3488 I do disagree with Acts proposal, they have unilaterally decided without consultation with the other party of the Treaty what the principles should look like, also without expert advice. If Act wants to get rid of the Treaty, then they should woman up and simply say that, and say they're designing a document for all NZers. Just don't call it Treaty related, when it isn't.
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@neil3488 So does he speak for everyone? Since when? Every hapu and Iwi have leaders chosen by their members, was David chosen to be the leader for Ngati Rehia, the Crown, the expert panel etc 🤣
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@neil3488 I'm ignoring your questions because it's not my job to educate you. I disagree with David and I look forward to finding solutions that favour Māori-centric values rather than an outdated regime
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@neil3488 We have policies for age, sex, diet etc why is ethnicity a bad category? Why oppress Māori when the science is clear that their stats based on their ethnicity requires meeting those issues head-on? Imagine if the elderly or the very young could not receive age-related assistance? Oppressing the already oppressed. How unoriginal. Prejudice against the needs of Māori and reliant on the institutional power that caused these problems in the first place. Slow clap for you and your logic.
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@neil3488 So sovereignty was ceded AND irrespective? Which is it?
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@neil3488 Acts proposal has nothing to do with the Treaty or Te Tīriti - because both of those documents were between Māori and the Crown. What ACT is proposing is something completely different, but nothing to do with Māori specifically, but generally as the first New Zealanders as well as modern day being grouped alongside all current NZers.
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@neil3488 Age can be precisely defined, but does it give a true representation of a person including their genetic propensities? Age doesn't tell you enough about a person like the ethnicity can. This is already scientifically proven to exhaustion hence why highly qualified and long careered medical professionals are all for ethnic based solutions. They're at ground zero, they're working with those at risk, and they know that generalised solutions don't work because they have never worked. Doing the same general mistake for another few generations is insanity.
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@aaronwhitehead7484 Māori were and still are literate in other intelligences - reading and writing is the lazy brains system. 500 Chiefs signed Te Tīriti, not the treaty that the crown instead accepted. Sovereignty, ultimate authority was not ceded. 'To the Victor goes the spoils' is a colonial idea. In Māoridom it's much more sophisticated. Many things can be a factor - some battles were minor and nothing really changed, in others your land was conquered. Stop spreading misinformation - Māori were not and never wiped themselves out by warring. The only time the Māori population was at risk of dying out was by colonization. Still is.
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@davethewave7248 Wrong, Dave. Māori don't own land, they belong to it while living or dead. Land is an ancestor. Sovereignty was an introduced colonial idea that wasn't practiced by ancient Māori in absolutes, hence the current confusion. Sovereignty. Was. Never. Ceded.
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@davethewave7248 Instead of relying on your second hand information how about applying some common sense and critical thinking and realise chiefs needing protection from chiefs from an untrustworthy foreigners is mental gymnastics. The chiefs wanted the crown to sort out their own people, hence the 'government/kawanatanga'
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@SalsaDoom1840 Why what's wrong with tribalism?
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@neil3488 So I've said this elsewhere: it's a fundamental difference of thinking, and you're coming from a very colonised perspective, which is fine. In Māoridom before colonisation, Māori lived on in their descendants, and the actions of today influenced the mana of our ancestors. We were there, and they are here today. Time was perceived as cyclical not linear like now. Much of the Māori mind has been colonised away. Why blend ourselves into beige to be tolerated - why not stay true to our worldviews and make room for all perspectives?
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@alethein359 Māori saying they never ceded since 1840 makes it so
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@alethein359 The supreme court could ask for a Weschler IQ test (my preference), garner that evidence, say said person was intelligent, and that would make it so. But using logical fallacies to peacock your position is so damn depressing, no wonder your rhetoric is riddled with misinformation.
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@Savage632-dr9xk Or the dong! Bahaha you bad, making me miss my old people and cracking up at the same time 🤣
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@JamesClark-cg1qk Which are you referencing? There are two documents, where only one was signed by over 500 chiefs
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@neil3488 Use evidence to back up your medical claims. I know for an actual fact ethnicity is a factor when diagnosing and recording.. Polynesians tend to have denser bones etc compared to Asian and European. There are differences because there always have been. Some Asian and Polynesians have Denisovan, some Europeans Neanderthal. Those differences carry certain variations, diseases and traits. It's scientific fact.
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@neil3488 Oh well done you, you can google answers that align with your agenda. And good for the Journal of American whatever whatever, I'm sure there isn't any political meddling going on over in the land of the free and their research. Ethnicity most definitely has scientific factors such as biological precursors etc, or the expression or non-expressions for certain genes etc. Ethnicity definitely has weight in the medical field, and doctors certainly adhere to those consistencies (if funding is available)
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@neil3488 ethnicity remains primarily a sociocultural term, it has biological precursors, parameters, and consequences for both individuals and groups with flow on effects including how certain groups receive welfare and aid.
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I'm all for a discussion, because to be able to discuss you need to be informed and sooo many who have formerly been complacent will start on their path to Treaty literacy. And once more countrymen are educated on this, yes let's have that mature discussion.
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@JamesClark-cg1qk Dont confuse assimilation for free will. If you were being enslaved by an introduced system, you would enter that system and change it from the inside out wouldn't you?
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@peterwallis4288 Only the very lucky and privileged got to eat human flesh. Know your cannibalism, including your own (I'm sure you're blissfully, ignorantly unaware of what you've been putting in your own body)
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@peterwallis4288 If you were lucky and privileged enough to eat the flesh of your enemies. Know your cannibalism (and I bet you're completely unaware of the human byproducts you're probably consuming on the daily)
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@peterwallis4288 @peterwallis4288 If you were lucky and privileged enough to eat the flesh of your enemies. Know your cannibalism (and I bet you're completely unaware of the human byproducts you're probably consuming on the daily)
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@peterwallis4288 If you were lucky and privileged enough to eat the flesh of your enemies. Know your cannibalism (and I bet you're completely unaware of the human byproducts you're probably consuming on the daily)
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@peterwallis4288 If you were lucky and privileged enough to eat the flesh of your enemies. Know your cannibalism (and I bet you're completely unaware of the human byproducts you're probably consuming on the daily)
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@peterwallis4288 @peterwallis4288 If you were lucky and privileged enough to eat the flesh of your enemies. Know your cannibalism (and I bet you're completely unaware of the human byproducts you're probably consuming on the daily)
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@neil3488 I'm a fan of science myself - I also teach it - and so much of ancient Māori sensibilities align with quantum mechanics it blows my mind and wish I had time to develop a thesis on it. You can reject whatever, makes no difference really, - you are what you are, say what you say, do what you do. But colonialism was definitely all about categorising to the upteenth degree, a hangover of the search for the individual in order to conform its entirety. And I have never understood what some people mean when they say to separate this human thing from that human thing, like politics or religion or culture. Unless rules or frameworks or tenets are graciously gifted to us from aliens, all constructs are flavoured of their human authors. Even the scientific method, in its need to generalise, defines its human lens by what it chooses to leave out. And yes we came from Africa, and some of us have one ancient human DNA and some another. The differences matter and are important, and I think should be celebrated and encouraged wherever possible. It was these very variations that helped our ancestors survive and thrive in changing environs as they explored and voyaged. And Seymour, as much of a git as he sometimes comes across, has done one thing right: people are getting clued up on the Treaty. People tend to dislike having something taken away before having a chance to properly know about it.
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@neil3488 Because all people under one law is not what the Treaty agreed to for one, and secondly it is not conducive to the realities of diverse humans and their specific needs. What works for one person does not work for another. Who would decide this universal, one size fits all law? And why pick on ethnicity, especially the ethnicity and their descendants who were done dirty and carry the intergenerational and genetic scarring of those past fouls? It also sets a precedent - if they can unilaterally discard the Treaty partner and their descendants now, they'll do it forever, the ethnicity will never recover, will never thrive. When did ACT become the expert of how to support an ethnicity from generational ills? I'd love to see what science they're supposedly drawing from.
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@neil3488 The current evidence, as you know, because what is known grows as more is discovered. There were multiple species of human on this planet, and some of those exist in different ethnicities. Yes we're all human, and some of us are slightly genetically different from each other. It is still unknown if all ancient species left Africa at the same time. Yes, race is a construct. Ethnicity is a little more scientific and is a helpful way to determine the movement of a people as they traversed the earth. The government is attempting to gaslight the population that the scientific data of experts is wrong and that it is more moral to make a population conform to their ideals. That just assimilation and colonisation all over again.
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@neil3488 Yes, you keep mentioning Africa - I didn't dispute that, but you are confusing me now about what you might actually be saying. Did all ancient human species leave Africa at the same time? The fact is some people one, none or more of several ancient human species DNA. So there's that. Secondly, I do not for one second believe the government is attempting to do right by all, when the evidence says targeted support works. Equality does not and has never meant equal opportunity.
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@neil3488 Nah not really, probably unlike many of those examples, we have Te Tīriti
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@alethein359 You're so full of yourself 🤣 You have no idea of my IQ, and harping on about it is distasteful. But equally and if not more important is EQ which I take much delight in honing.
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@alethein359 You're starting to come across like the idiot you apparently perceive yourself to be so far above of. If a person, under the supervision of a psychologist or psychiatrist, measured their IQ...blah, blah, blah... the court would use that experts report as evidence. If the expert says intelligent, the court listens.
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@neil3488 Bey means mate or bro
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@neil3488 Ngata isn't actually that well liked in Māoridom because of this particular view he voiced. Explains why I have never heard him mentioned as a role model or someone to aspire to be
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@neil3488 I read what he said, but I don't come to the same conclusion you. I agree the wording is colourful, but essentially Ngata isn't the be all and all of Māoridom. He had an opinion influenced by his time in parliament, in opposition to thousands and generations of Māori including those of his own tribe. Is what it is.
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