Comments by "Aden Wellsmith" (@adenwellsmith6908) on "Can we afford the welfare state?" video.

  1. Very simple. When the debts its accumulated are too large to pay.
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  2. How about printing vouchers and using those for the welfare state and public sector workers. It will boost the economy and pay for itself. Remember you can never run out of vouchers.
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  3.  @chriswills9437  The other question. Why haven't the workers got the wealth? Where's that 18% that the welfare state took from them? The asset stripping question.
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  4. That's just the borrowing. The welfare state has a 16 trillion pound pension debt, off the books.
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  5. 16 trillion pounds of socialist welfare state pension debts. How is that affordable?
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  6.  @Redf322  Doesn't work red. There's a 16,000 billion pound pension debt. Off the books. The super rich in the UK [Sunday times rich list ] own 220 bn. [Anyone with over a billion]. You run out of super rich before 2 months are up.
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  7. Not enough.
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  8.  @helenheenan3447  The term used is the research is native.
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  9. Richard, you are in denial about the welfare state's balance sheet. You know the pensions are a liability/debt. You're an accountant. Well you claim to be an accountant. Here's your homework. Post the book keeping for 1. Receipt of a contribution 2. Payment out of a pension Lets see if you can get the basic book keeping correct.
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  10. SO the pension debts. How does not paying public sector workers their pensions work?
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  11.  @Redf322  No its not. Now if Richard was honest, he would list the debts and how big they are. Borrowing is known, but the pension debts? Not mentioned because there isn't the money to pay them. Can you afford 600K at 10% per year?
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  12.  @marcopolotimetraveller  Look at el Loco. Well the left won't mention him because its working. That's what reform should do as one of the items on the list. A list of quangos. Mark off which go. Now that takes changes to the law. But changes to funding can be done with a sheet of A4 and a minister signing it. Change the funding to £1 a year. The law changes can come latter. So which ones to go? Such a long list. Perhaps a list of those that don't.
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  13. Or MP's heating bills.
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  14.  @JohnPark-xf2gq  Exactly. The state's not needed to create money as a means of exchange. The problem now is that muppets tell the left we can print money and we can have whatever we want. So create a new currency, the voucher. Pay the public sector workers in vouchers. No tax not needed. Of course when they go and spend their vouchers, no one would accept them. They are worthless. That little example shows why they are bonkers. To turn a fiat currency into something of value you need tax or fines, to extract the value out of other people. MMT is clear. In particular inflation linked debts like pensions can only be funded by imposing austerity on one section of society to transfer the wealth to the creditors. You cannot inflate your way out of inflation linked debts.
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  15. Look at the accounts. They make what they call a surplus because profit is a dirty word.
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  16. The super rich cannot afford to pay the welfare state so others don't. Do the maths.
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  17. You can't have it. There aren't enough super rich to pay the welfare states debts.
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  18.  @chriswills9437  So lay the numbers out. How big are the welfare state's debts? What's the projected cash flow requirements? Then from that we can work out how much the super rich have to pay, and see if they have the money.
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  19.  @chriswills9437  What I notice is that those that have taken the wealth, politicians, won't talk about how much debt the welfare state has accumulated. I wonder why?
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  20.  @Redf322  How can you pay people benefits so they pay the debts?
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  21.  @OneAndOnlyMe  Not at all. Start of with the costs sides. How big are the debts? How much money is required? Include pensions and welfare. Then once you come back with that, I've the numbers for the super rich and we can see if your plan works. Well, let me give you them. Billionaires in the UK, 220 bn owned when you factor out the non doms with overseas wealth. I've even factored in the Hedge fund lot whose assets are overseas. How does 220 bn stack up against the pension debts?
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  22.  @mixodorians12  900 bn is the state owing itself money
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  23.  @fburton8  Assets less liabilities
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  24.  @nigelgarrett7970  No its not. 900 bn is the APF. Then we have the people forced to lend. Banks, insurers. Then we have other central banks. People are a very small fraction of the lenders to the state. The big debt is pensions.
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  25.  @fburton8  The welfare state. Now for the peasants. Can they owe themselves money?
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  26. Exactly. So the looting of wealth from the workers is the disaster.
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  27. There are other measures of affordability. Welfare state pension debt, per tax payer. Can the average tax payer afford a £600,000 debt rising at 10% a year? Can Mr Min Wage afford that? Clearly the answer is no, so the welfare state won't pay its debts.
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  28. There's not enough money to afford it.
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  29. You're numbers are wrong. Add on 3K per person for the NHS. THen another 3K per person for common goods. Then housing benefits, then income support, then schooling....
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  30.  @Tensquaremetreworkshop  3,000 is common goods. Defences, legal etc. That's per head. Education of a child 8,000. NHS, 3K per head. For the rest, there's a website entitledto. You can put details in their to get direct costs. HB, income etc. Then on top for the adults, there's pensions. They aren't paying in but they get years added to their entitlement. Total it up and the costs are horrific. Paid for by others with austerity. Now in practice to get rid of that is impossible, until the money stops. Then its even worse that the victorian set up. Harsh as it sounds, there are people who have moved to the UK and are claiming. That needs to be ended. They will leave, and it mitigates the problem. Second we have to move to funded pensions. That's again going to be pain for 20 years. After 20 years yongsters will be better off. But that starts with people like Richard telling the truth about pension debt.
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  31. Why haven't you considered that scenario is inevitable because of the debts?
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  32.  @Redf322  So come on. How big are the pension debts? Surely Richard will have told you. Can you post the number? [Trick question, he hasn't told you].
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  33. He doesn't have a clue. Ask him the basic questions. How much pension debt has the welfare state accumulated? Where are the trillions of pounds of wealth its taken from the masses?
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  34.  @chickendinner4098  Lets have Westminster's heating turned off in Solidarity this winter.
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  35.  @SlowJoe9114  Most would agree, except MPs. The real problem is we cannot afford the welfare state. The reason is how much debt has the welfare state and the state in general run up. 2. 5 trillion borrowed 16 trillion in pension debts. .... All because the accountants have hidden the big debts off the books. For a lecturer in accountancy not to even discuss that mess, says its gone wrong
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  36.  @marijo1951  I want the monarcy gone. I want the lords gone. I want most politicians gone. The BBC, short term the license fee at £1, then abolished within a year. Ukraine I agree.
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  37. Well start off with the basics. How big are the pension debts? What's the rate of increase? What's the per tax payer share? They are the relevant facts. But they are missing from your argument.
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  38.  @erongi233  That's one measure. The problem with it is that its a current cost. The debt tells you the future cost. It's a measure of how much austerity you will have to impose going foreward. Your measure is just the current level of austerity. So what are the measures? There are quite a few. Current cost. Future cost. They both tell you the level of austerity. But why use GDP? That's saying that look we can take all the money and use it for the state. That's not going to work. What level of taxation do you think the people who pay for it all will tolerate? Why not use percentage of tax? ie. What proportion of the states revenue can go on the debts? There are lots of other measures. For example, debt per tax payer
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  39.  @erongi233  What about how much debt per tax payer? A level of how much asset stripping will be needed to pay the debts. That's also the measure of austerity needed to pay them.
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  40.  @erongi233  So how big's the debt, then you can work out what percentage of tax is needed. Currently that's 30%.
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  41.  @erongi233  Generally, no national pensions are fully funded. = Correct = Most national pension systems operate on a pay-as-you-go basis, meaning that current workers' contributions are used to pay for the benefits of current retirees. = Correct. I've no argument with any of that. Now people have paid in. They are owed a pension. Pure and simple. That's a debt. How much debt? Next can the state default on the debt? Yes. It changes the law and says to the peasants we aren't paying you. So how big is the debt? 16 trillion. Will the state default on the debt? yes, it will default again. As it has in the past. So that's the welfare state for you
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  42.  @erongi233  It's not a willy waving competition. The UK is bankrupt because of the state's pensions. So is France for example. The joke, Daddy Daddy, I might be a tad pregnant applies. It's a boolean.
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  43. There is wealth inequality. So where are the trillions of pounds of wealth taht the welfare state has taken from the workers?
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  44. You not listening. The consequence of the 16 trillion pound welfare state pension debt IS victorian britain. It's a consequence not a policy.
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  45. It's the conseuqnce of those pension debts.
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  46.  @robmaslen6446  You tell me where Richard Murphy , an accountant, has stated how big the socialist welfare state's debts are. It's a very simple question. Now Richard's a socialist so he won't tell you or anyone. He'll spin the story that its someone else.
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  47.  @robmaslen6446  So have you found where Murphy states how much pension debt the state has run up? Thought not. The only debt Murphy will talk about is the money owed to his banker mates. That's the borrowing. The other debts, just don't pay them
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  48. Growth. There are two rates of growth you need to consider. 1. The rate of growth in the economy. That is one of the factors that drive tax receipts needed to pay the welfare state's debts. There is also an element of how much austerity the public will tolerate. ie. Taxation without services, because the money is going on the welfare state's debts. 2. The rate of growth of those debts. Simply. When the rate of growth of the debts exceeds the rate of growth of the tax base, you won't get a welfare state.
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  49. Wrong question. Ask can you pay your fair share? 600K at 10%? If you can't pay that end of the welfare state.
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  50.  @rfxtuber  Doesn't work for inflation linked debt. You can't create goods and services out of thin air. MMT is very clear on that.
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  51.  @rfxtuber  f the government can create debt out of thin air, ======= To pay its debts it needs real assets because the big debts are inflation linked. You cannot create real assets out of thin air.
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  52. OK. So post your plan. 1. How big are the debts? 2. Who has the money to pay for that debt?
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