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  248. bulbinking - Zimmerman fanboys (most of whom tend to be conservative) were the ones accusing Trayvon of drinking Lean and making lean with what he was bringing home. Blame them. They're the ones who claimed there's a Lean epidemic. "You aren't black" Actually I AM BLACK, dumbass. Thanks for showing yourself to be an idiot. Why would you assume I'm not black? "don't live near poor black communities" I live 15 mins from Baltimore. Where do you live? You live in or near a mostly-black ghetto? Doubt it.  "Because if you look up statistics" What statistics show there is a Knockout Game or Lean-creating trend? Hm? Statistics say the "Knockout Game" is no trend. It's 8 or 9 unconnected random cases from several years ago, most of which occurred in NYC. The police and law enforcement have said there is no "Knockout" trend: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/11/cops-are-not-convinced-knockout-game-is-a-thing.html 10 or so random occurrences in the past 15 years, out of the millions of crimes that have occurred during that same time, is nowhere near a national trend or epidemic. More Americans have won the lottery than have been victims of the Knockout Game. LITERALLY. "you'll sure agree with any blogs you hear which say that stuff doesn't happen because" Funny you say that, since the only "evidence" this is some trend is mostly speculation from conservative blogs and a couple of sensationalist news articles which only list a few incidents: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/11/25/2990411/knockout-game-media/ You broke my irony meter. My evidence is national crime data. What's yours?
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  292. I wonder if the people going on about him being a "thug" have ever played contact sports themselves. As someone who Wrestled and played Football in high school and college, I can personally attest to Richard Sherman being pretty par the course in terms of how a lot of players talk on the field. Sherman was actually VERY G-rated compared to how some of us (all of races) would be talking before, during and after the game. He didn't even cuss or anything, he just raised his voice and did some light bragging. And mind you his yelling was aimed at a personal rival who had been harassing him and talking shit leading up to and during the game. If Sherman was "shocking" then his detractors would pass out if they could hear what we and opposing players said down on the field and in the locker rooms. XD Now of course there are other players who have a gladhanding, politician-like demeanor in interviews after the game (like Peyton Manning), but usually that's because they're being interviewed several minutes after the game after they've had time to cool down and regain their composure. Peyton might sound different if you go run up in his face 15 seconds after scoring the winning touchdown at the end of the 4th Quarter. In Richard Sherman's case they just walked up and stuck a mic in his face moments after winning while he's still caught up in the heat of the moment. Not to sound sexist but part of it is also a "Guy Thing". A lot of hyped-up, testosterone-fueled young men aren't going to switch out of Hunter Mode and compose themselves and go back into Social Mode just seconds after a grueling physical contest. From the perspective of being a young man and former athlete myself.
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  373. Adkins - Firstly, we already established that millions of voters in the Democratic Primaries were disenfranchised. Did you miss these reports? Millions of voters in New York, Arizona and California wrestling knocked off the voter rolls or had their registration "mysteriously" switched. Several State Secretaries of State and Board of Elections directors confirmed voter suppression occurred in their state. Polls opening late, closing early, voters being deregistered, etc. Secondly, you vacilated between taking about "the Party" and the people. A little clue: aside from the fact that 45% of Democrats voted for Bernie, that is a HUGE amount, what's important is WHO INDEPENDENTS WILL VOTE FOR IN NOVEMBER*. It doesn't matter who Democrats want for President if no one but Democrats want that person for President. Democrats now only make up 25% of registered voters. You made up 29% of registered voters last year before screwing over people enough for some to leave. Republicans make up 28% of registered voters whole Independents make up 45% of registered voters. *THAT'S Why Hillary got her ass stomped by Trump: you only thought about what centrist Democrats want and not what Progressive Democrats or Independents want. Trump led Hillary by 10-15 points among Independents and Bernie led Hillary by 25-35 points among Independents. Also, you're very off the mark about demographics. Roughly about 2/5 of black voters nationally voted for Bernie and about half of Latinos voted for Bernie. Older African-American voters in the South aren't the only minorities in America. Black voters under 40 overwhelmingly sided with Bernie over Hillary (I'm one of them) as did Latinos and Asian Americans under 45. Slightly over half of Asian American voters voted for Bernie and between 70-80% of Native American and Arab American voters voted for Bernie in the Primaries. As for conservative Democrats the Midwest is about as conservative as the South yet Bernie won most of the Midwest overwhelmingly. Mostly the very same states that Hillary lost to Trump. If conservative Democrats found him so appalling he never would have won the Midwest. Polls show that centrist Republicans actually preferred Bernie over Hillary. Almost 15% of Bernie voters during the Primaries were registered Republicans.
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  395. @Lovely Candice - Bill, like many New Atheists is a moderate Neoconservative on foreign policy. He even self-identified as a "9/11 liberal", which is the 21st century equivalent of "Cold War liberals": people who were liberal on domestic issues but rabid anticommunist pro-war hawks. That about sums up New Atheists. They share Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations" worldview where they see "the West" as inherently good and "progressive" and the peak of Human Enlightenment and see the rest of the world as "barbarians". Kind of how Romans and Greeks viewed non-Romans and non-Greeks (except for a few choice non-European Civilizations like Egypt, Nubia, Phoenicians, Persians and Scythians). This is why they have a special animus against Islam. They identify it as a "foreign" faith, unlike Christianity and Judaism, and identify it with "Eastern despotism and barbarism" and see it as a huge threat since it's the world's 2nd largest religion and therefore the main competition to Christianity and Judaism. Islam does have a HUGE legitimate problem with Islamism but they go an extra step and suggest the entire religion is evil and irredeemable and somehow "more evil" than other religions. They dislike all religions but view Islam as a special evil with no good or redeeming features while viewing Christianity and Judaism as annoying but "Western" (therefore "more civilized"). Islam is somehow more religion-y than other religions in their mind or they believe Muslims somehow believe harder somehow than other religious people. Basically, they view Islam the way Cold War Neocons view Communism: pure world-destroying evil and ineffable Eastern despotism with which there can be no compromise. They view the other Abrahmic faiths the way Cold War Neocons view Fascism: not preferable but an acceptable temporary bulwark against Communism. Like Nixon said: "A bastard, but OUR (the West's/Capitalism's) bastard." Basically, they're Western Supremacists who have replaced Communism with Islam as the big Eastern "Great Satan" now that the Soviets are gone. That and many New Atheists are hardcore Zionists, like Maher, Harris, Condell, Krauss, etc. When you press them on this stuff they'll try to do a "motte and bailey" retreat to make their position seem less controversial or extreme. lol
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  458. Marvelous Moostache Man - While I largely agree with you, you sound like you've been given a sanitized version of the Civil Rights Movement. While it always had very large elements like what you descrive, the CRM had hateful black separatists and supremacists as well who made up a large minority of the Movement. Like H. Rap Brown, Stokely Carmichael, Elijah Muhammad, most of the NOI, Nation of Gods and Earths, some more radical chapters of the Black Panther Party, etc. Even MLK was VERY controversial when he was alive. He and Ralph Abernathy were very commonly called "anti-white", "Communist agitators" and black supremacists. In 1963, polls showed about 2/3 of white Americans had a negative opinion of MLK. Everyone pretends to love him now and have supported the Civil Rights Movement, but at the time less than half of whites supported the Movement. People like it now that it won and it's become politically safe to oppose Segregation. MLK was often hated because he denounced Capitalism and also criticized white liberals who wanted the Left to shy away from social and racial justice and only talk about economics. Like some in this comment section. Based on comments here, a lot of the people in the comment section calling themselves "Progressive" would have called MLK an "SJW". While he tied economic and social justice together, MLK criticized white liberals who thought you could get rid of all or most racism simply by making sure poor whites have good jobs. It also takes cultural change and getting people to change their mindsets.
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  532. So the State should provide them for free. Otherwise, making people pay a fee to vote is a Poll Tax. You already have to use IDs to vote as it is, voter cards. Driver's IDs are no more valid than any other ID. My voting station doesn't even ask to see mine, they just ask to see my voting card (which has no picture). Everyone already gets that for free and it proves you're registered to vote. Why is that not sufficient? Why wouldn't an SS card or Medicare card or college ID (which has a photo) be valid? It's because people pushing Voter ID laws want an ID they know a lot of likely Democratic voters (college students, poor people, urban minorities who don't have cars) are likely to not have. Otherwise you'd accept a voting card and one of those other forms of ID. Or provide everyone a driver's ID for free. There is no evidence that massive voting fraud exists and zero evidence that a driver's license stops it. It's a non-fucking-issue they didn't care about until 2008 when Obama won, then all of a sudden they wanted to believe black voters must have cheated. It was fine when votes for Gore got thrown out in 2000 to help Bush into Office, but they didn't care until Obama won. Don't give us this "I just care about stopping fraud" spiel. Voter fraud is almost nonexistent and there's even less evidence it happens in-person of that driver's licenses magically stop it better than college photo IDs or voter cards everyone already has. What fraud has happened is almost always rigged machines or absentee ballot fraud.
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  641. Tangerine Farmer - Noticing the pattern? When cops or racist vigilantes (like George Zimmerman) kill a minority or poor white person the cops and police/vigilante defense lawyers always come up with some cockamamie story that bigots, cop-defenders and authoritarians are always eager to eat up anyway. Trayvon Martin was running scared for his life after being stalked for several minutes, but for some reason suddenly becomes homicidally angry (even though he's never committed a crime in his life other than tagging a school wall and smoking pot, things he doesn't even have a record for), and decides to commit Murder....yet neglects to put his cell phone away (he talks on the phone to Rachel all the way up until the fight begins) and doesn't leave his groceries at home. He's "armed with a sidewalk" (Mark O'Mara's words) and screams "You're gonna die, motherfucker!" or something along those words to Zimmerman before being shot in the chest, sitting up and saying "You got me" like some cheesy Hollywood summer action flick villain after getting shot by the hero cop (this is medically extremely unlikely). People eat it up. Michael Brown, who is also going to college next month and has no criminal record, suddenly decides to go on a rip-roaring rampage of violent crime and brutalize a clerk (even though the video clearly shows money being exchanged and Brown being pushed first in the argument, and the owner never calls the cops and denies anything was stolen). He's told to get off the street and suddenly decides to.....commit Homicide for no reason. He absolutely brutalizes poor Officer Wilson (and somehow does so without leaving a single mark on Wilson), tries to grab the gun (but leaves no evidence, and gets shot in the hand while doing so, which would require expert marksmanship by Wilson), and runs away scared. Wilson gets out of the car, chases Brown and opens fire on the fleeing Brown (his own admission), and Brown suddenly goes from running for his life to.....suicidally brave. He turns into a "demon" who "bulks up" (Wilson's own words) and decides he's the Incredible Hulk and tries to run through a hail of gunfire with his head down (a very unwieldy running stance as any athlete knows, a story concocted by a discredited crazy liar) but somehow only moves 20 feet in 6-7 seconds while supposedly doing a full-on charge. Public eats it up. Tamir Rice, a 12-year old kid playing with a toy gun, suddenly decides he's gonna simulating a shooting spree (even though the video shows no one else in the park and him not pointing the gun at anyone). The cops show up and suddenly he decides to.....take out his fake gun (which he knows is fake) to....what? Shoot the cops with a fake gun? The cops gun him down and the video contradicts this story, but the public eats it up. Now Freddie Gray gets scared and runs from the cops and is arrested "without incident". But for somehow is able to effectively simulate paralysis and decides on the way to the station to break his own neck..........for no reason. He's somehow able to break his own neck, with his hands cuffed behind his back and the cops can't stop him for some reason. For what gain, no one knows. I'm sure some of the public will eat this up. Black people sure have a funny habit of defying logic, all known human behavioral patterns and even the laws of Physics when cops or vigilantes confront them, don't they?
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  780. +Mary Jane - What a bunch of self-pitying, maudlin "Oh woe is me. What a victim I am!" horseshit. You know how often condoms break? 1% of the time. If a man wears a condom he has about a 1% chance of ending up in such a situation. Even less than that given that the majority of mothers do not behave like your little scenario. You're cherry-picking the absolute worst-case scenario and pretending it's the norm. Most fathers DID NOT WEAR A CONDOM and did not even try to. They're not poor schmoes whose condoms just broke. Secondly, the majority of children live in a two-parent household (even with black Americans, about 56% of black kids have a father figure in the house, even if it's not the biological dad). Thirdly, mothers actually end up poor much more often than fathers. Having a child is VERY EXPENSIVE. Whichever parent has custody or primary custody pays most of the child's expenses. Child support (which some women pay as well) only pays for 15-35% of a child's expenses on average. Lastly, most fathers have joint custody with the mothers and most fathers have visitation rights. In over 80% of cases where fathers actually fight for custody or partial-custody they get it. Most dads with no custody didn't try to fight for custody, and many didn't want it. Often, after a divorce men use the divorce as a chance to start their life over again anew as a single man. Having kids would be an economic burden (and get in the way of them living a single life trying to hook up with new women). That's why most dads who have no custody didn't try to fight for it, they didn't want it. (The majority of) MRAs and MGTOWs are basically just a male equivalent of Radical Feminists. Like RadFems they're full of crap. They both describe the opposite sex like Nazis describe Jews and left-wing academics or like Bolsheviks describe anyone who owns farming land or a business.
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  793. ***** - 1) Defending yourself against terrorists doesn't give you a right to indiscriminately fire at civilian areas. It's not an accident either, many times the Israelis INTERNATIONALLY target civilians or civilian areas. Terrorism does not excuse mass murder or collective punishment of civilians (like their bombing of UN centers and UN aid workers and childrens' hospitals). That's an international War Crime. He's being an apologist for war crimes. "And they  are constituionally committed to the genocide of the Jewish race" I'm sorry but that's an inaccuracy. They refuse to accept the legitimacy of the Israeli government. That's different than genocide. However, the Likud Party Charter in Israel also constitutionally refuses to ever admit the legitimacy of the Palestinians or their right to own any land in Israel and vows nothing if off limits to keep them from owning land or having a state. So, the Likud are no better than Hamas. Yet the Likud is supported by the US.  2) I understand shades of gray, but I think the things he disagrees with the US government about don't make up for the scale or scope of how bad the policies he supports are. It's like if I think Rape is okay but Murder isn't. 3) "Islamic extremism has existed for centuries" Yes, but it was nowhere near as widespread in the Middle East before the past 60 years. Where was ISIS or all the terrorist groups and suicide bombers in the 1920s? The 1800s? The 1700s? The 1600s? In the 1800s and early 20th century much of the Middle East used to be a playground for wealthy Westerners, similar to how Cuba was under Batista. Like Morocco, Iran, Libya, etc. Islamist groups existed but were a small minority considered nutty by the majority of the population. In much of the Middle East it was relatively rare to see women wearing burkas or hjiabs. Now it's everywhere. What changed? The Western and Eastern (Soviet) involvement in the Middle East during the mid-to-late 20th century helped turn Islamism popular.  Back in the day Pan-Arabism (which embraced secularism or Islamic secularism and Islamic modernization) was the ideology du jour throughout much of the Middle East. When it collapsed in the late 70s (which one could argue was mostly due to internal reasons), Islamism became the new, uniting nationalist ideology throughout the Middle East largely thanks to the US supporting Islamist regimes and groups in order to oppose the Soviet-supported Pan-Arabism and regional alliances or trade deals with the Soviets. We supported the Shah to oppose the Democratic Socialist the Iranians elected to power, which in turn helped the Ayatollah gain popularity. We helped Saddam Hussein into power to oppose the Ayatollah, and supported the Mujahideen to oppose the socialist leader of Afghanistan and the Soviet incursion into the region. We also supported other Islamist groups in order to oppose Pan-Arabist leaders (like the Islamists we supported to topple Gaddafi and al-Assad).  Islamist extremism would still exist if it weren't for the US, but it would probably be more like how the Klan and white nationalist groups exist in the US and Europe today: largely relegated to a political minority (scarily too large a minority but still with not much actual power). As for Turkey, it actually was and still is one of the most modernized and secular Muslim countries in the world. The Ottomans did indeed use religion to justify what they did, but so did the US use religion to justify colonization of the continent (Manifest Destiny explicitly invokes God and Christianity). Or the War on Terror (God told Bush to). But the Ottomans fell after WWI and Mustafa Kemal Ataturk explicitly founded the modern Turkey to reject religious extremism and theocracy. 
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  797. It killed me at the time that he did that, but given how under the gun he was (maybe even literally, as Julian Assange has heavily hinted, the Clintons and the Bushes do have a Putin-like habit of their political enemies mysteriously and conveniently dying), in retrospect I understand why Bernie did it. Setting aside possible threats to his own life and his family, had Bernie made a huge affair at the Convention, the Establishment Democrats would have STILL CORONATED QUEEN HILLARY ANYWAY and there would have been the added disgrace of Bernie being cast as selfish interloper who only became a Democrat for his own self (since the Establishment Democrats weren't going to let him become the Nominee, him cutting up would feel cathartic for his voters but achieve nothing). The MSM would have painted him as a loon and delusional like they are with Trump and his claim that 3-5 million illegal immigrants voted for Hillary. While the evidence of election fraud during the Primaries is now undeniable, back in July 2016 it was a strong possibility but not conclusively proven enough to win a court case. If you accuse the DNC at the Convention of Fraud, they'd demand you present evidence strong enough to win a court case. Even if you did, most Hillary superdelegates would not have cared and would have remained with her because she bought them off 4-8 years before the 2016 Primaries started. The DNC, under the control of Donna Brazile, would still refuse to do the Primaries over again, so the pledged delegates would have remained with Hillary. Bernie can't take pledged delegates just by claiming the DNC cheated. Then after Hillary was Coronated anyways, Bernie would have become anathema in the Democratic Party and lost any and all power he did have. Especially if he went Green after contesting the Convention. He'd be billed as a self-interested sore loser. I hate that he had to campaign for that woman, but it was for the best in the end. He's now a de facto Democratic Party leader and is steadily infiltrating the Democratic Party with Berniecrats at the local and state levels (soon federal level). Meanwhile Hillary is now nothing but a mythical forest sprite in Upstate New York. It's not helpful to spend the rest of your life twisted up over the hard choice Bernie had to make. It didn't taste good going down *AT ALL*, but I understand why. Bernie also truly did view Trump as someone he couldn't work at all with while he viewed Hillary as someone he could to a degree. He was right in retrospect. I still wouldn't have voted for Hillary, but Trump did turn out to be the greater evil. He totally sold out and went back on his populist promises. He's a complete puppet of Neocon Dominionist Theocrat Mike Pence and quasi-Nazi Steve Bannon.
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  828. I think old Mandela well deserves the fond praise he's receiving. Of course the man was not an angel or a perfect man (What revolutionary leader was? What human in general is?), but he was far from the demon that his right-wing/imperialist and white supremacist detractors make him out to be. He helped transform South Africa from a dictatorship enclave where only a minority (the top 10%) of the white minority (who themselves only made up between 5-10% of the population) could be affluent to a multi-party, multiracial democracy with social mobility and opportunity available to all. SA still has a LONG way to go but it's a far cry from what it was during the Apartheid years where SA was basically a country club for a small portion of the population with everyone else starving in concentration camp-like township slums surrounded by governmental/military blockade (not unlike Palestine today...). Although the ANC does have a bloody side, like almost every revolutionary movement, it's still a far cry from the tyrannical dictatorship it fought and that the West often supported. Thankfully Mandela was able to stop the ANC from devolving into a group of thugs with no real noble goal anymore (like the neighboring ZANU mooks in Zimbabwe and militaries in Cambodia, Myanmar, Colombia and now maybe Egypt) and turn it into a legitimate democratic party. Probably singlehandedly preventing a bloody civil war and a possible racial purge/genocide. Now SA has transformed from a nationwide plantation into an economic power in the same categories as nations like Russia, China and Brazil. The man has earned his pages in history with the likes of Mahatma Gandhi, George Washington, Simon Bolivar, Toussaint L'Overture, Sun Yat-sen, Patrice Lumumba, etc.  R.I.P. Madiba
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  851. BosoxnationI972 - And this is where batshit conservative/right-wing types loose me.  1) Republican-led gerrymandering is a MUUUUCH bigger problem than "voter fraud". 2) There have been less than 20 cases of voter fraud since 1990. It's nowhere near a huge problem. Unless you're referring to Diebold machines changing votes. 3) The Voter ID laws mostly take away voting rights from legal citizens who should be able to vote. In the process of trying to weed out the 1 or 2 fraudulent vote or so every election you eliminate hundreds of thousands or millions of rightful voters. It's like destroying an entire row of houses in a suburb to get rid 5 ants in 1 house. 4) If this is really about voter fraud, why not accept other forms of ID like school ID, social security cards, other govt cards or sworn affidavits like Canada? Why limit it specifically to a type of card you know many poor people (a lot of whom tend to be urban minorities) cannot get? 5) The ID only costs $20 or so if you had it in the first damn place. It costs several hundred dollars to take the driver's course needed to take the final DMV test to get a license. Many poor Americans cannot afford that. Many older voters are not eligible to drive, so can't get a new driver ID. So it costs way more than $20 to get an ID if you haven't already taken the damn course. But we all know this has nothing to do with real concern for voter fraud. It's a concern that without limiting voters the GOP has no real chance of ever winning a national election again. That's the REAL concern.
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  915. Look guys, I'm a black Bernie supporter (Bernie 2020!) and I think you guys should listen mire often to us nonwhite Progressives and nonwhite Bernie supporters. I really hate to go there, but this has to be said (many of us feel this way since Charlottesville): I suspect some white Progressives are overly tolerant and indulgent of the alt-Right (not at Trump voters, just his remaining supporters and the active alt-Right) because they're fellow white non-Muslims. A lot of white people, including white Progressives (Kyle and Jimmy Dore included, sorry), probably because the alt-Right are mostly fellow preppy or "normal all-American"-looking white guys, see them and go "Yeah, they're fucking awful, but C'MON!! Th-th-th-th-they're not truly evil! They're just economically anxious and scared!! If only they could hear the Good News and Word of Bernie Sanders/Progressivism/Social Democracy they'd sober up and become good people and stop their racism. Come on! See! A few former Neo-Nazis even de-converted! We can help these lost souls. They just need jobs." Even though I think this bias in these white Progressives is unconscious, not intentional and malicious. Just an unconscious Tribalism. Welp, you see just how the alt-Right returns the favor of Progressives "taking the high road" and trying to heal and "understand" them. They just shit in your face and laugh as you cough, then take out a knife to try to stab you while you're down rolling on the ground in a coughing fit. Just like the Nazis of Old did to Neville Chamberlain and Americans who wanted to stay out of the War. Take it from us nonwhite Progressives who hab e dealt with white supremacy our whole lives: THEY. WILL. NOT. CHANGE. AND. WILL. NOT. STOP. THEY. ARE. LITERAL. FASCISTS. AND. NAZIS. They see this as a "Racial Holy War" for the "Survival of the White Race and Western Civilization". They view Progressives and Socialists as even more of an enemy than they view Establishment Democrats as they view us as "Commies". Which is to a Nazi as a Satanist is to a Fundamentalist Christian or Fundamentalist Muslim. Treat and view the alt-Right the same as you would someone who has become a radical Islamist who has pledged allegiance to ISIS. Work from the assumption they are a lost cause. View them as a ticking time bomb you're now simply in damage control mode to prevent them from killing anyone, just like any ISIS sympathizer. The alt-Right are not fellow anti-Establishment brothers-in-arms who are just wrong-headed and just waiting for the Good Messiah Bernie Sanders to convert them to Progressivism. They're a lost cause just like most German adults who signed up to join the Wehrmacht. Treat them as such. They are enemies. I'm sorry, some of your fellow white neighbors and family members have declared themselves your enemy. It's a tragedy, but that's what it's come to. Just like you view Centrist Democrats as the enemy, that goes double for the alt-Right. Centrists want you immobilized and powerless and want you alive to lend your unquestioning vote in election years. The alt-Right wants you DEAD. They view you white Progressives as "race traitor cucks" who must be liquidated for the Good of the White Race and Western Civilization.
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  979. @Kwesi Miller-Greene - So let's not investigate Trump just because Pence is maybe worse? That's not how the law works and that's a horrible precedent. Let's let someone get away with crimes because the guy behind them next in line may be worse. Yes, the DNC stuff needed to be seen, but that doesn't make the Russians innocent if they were behind it. Kyle's acting like any Russians behind it were just dutiful, altruistic truth-tellers who wanted us to know the truth and had no cynical selfish ulterior motives as to WHY they released the information. It can both simultaneously be true that the information needed to be seen and the people who hacked the information had self-serving ulterior motives for doing so, not some honest desire to inform Americans or help Bernie. It's pretty obvious by now the Russian government greatly desired Trump, not Bernie. Because someone told you the truth once that was being hidden from you doesn't make them a friend, and Russia being the enemy of your enemy (the DNC) doesn't make them your friend. Because they hated Hillary and wanted to you to as well doesn't mean they liked Bernie. Kyle also keeps conflating Collusion and Hacking. Those are 2 different issues. Trump's ties to Russian agents is a separate issue from the DNC hacking. The fact Kyle says "What's the endgame?" of the investigation shows he's thinking about this from a politics angle rather than legality. This is about law, not what's electorally easier or more difficult for Berniecrats.
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  1087. DerMitDemBlunt - Hell no. GZ is half-white himself but he's Hispanic and that's considered a minority in the US. If he shot some non-Hispanic lily-white 17 year old boy his ass would probably be under the prison now IMHO. Part of the defense GZ's lawyers used was literally a justification of racial profiling - a couple of recent local burglars had been black, thus it's okay to view young black males that GZ doesn't personally know with suspicion and pursue them around. If they don't appreciate being chased and pursued they should just run home.  Such a defense would never fly with a white kid. Imagine a 29 year old black man saying, "Well, 3 local burglars in my neighborhood were white. I didn't know this white kid. He had Goth clothing and I thought that looked suspicious. He might have been another school shooter for all I know. Like Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. So, I did my detective thing and followed him around. He started running and I found that really suspicious, so I got out of my car and chased him. He turned around and hit my nose, and I got scared so I shot him in the chest. I think it was self-defense. How could I have known he was just going home? He looked like he was looking to rob places because he looked in other directions other than straight forward while walking. Besides, wasn't he suspended from school for 2 weeks anyway? Probably some thug anyway." My guess: Verdict: Guilty XD The only case I can think of that working is Roderick Scott. But the white boy he shot was allegedly actually robbing a car.
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  1091. +Joey Marlin IV - 1) Apparently you didn't read my post. I said I don't know if it specifically requires BLM as it exists now to resolve it, but it does need A movement. I have my own list of criticisms of BLM. It's very disorganized. 2) Your second claim is a huge generalization that is pretty inaccurate. Many black neighborhoods are not poor and many white neighborhoods are. Middle class black neighborhoods usually have low crime rates, making your statement inaccurate. Poor white neighborhoods, on average, have similar crime rates to poor black neighborhoods. Poor black neighborhoods tend to be in larger population concentrations (urban areas) while poor white ones tend to be more spread-out and sparsely populated (rural areas). There's no evidence more crime goes on in "black neighborhoods", cops tend to police said neighborhoods more heavily and arrest more people, however. Huge difference. 3a) 70% of arrested persons in the US are white. White crime is not "rare" and most white Americans do not live in "upper middle class suburban neighborhoods". Most white Americans live in lower-to-middle-middle class areas. Why do cops not target lower-middle class and blue-collar white neighborhoods as much as they do blue-collar black neighborhoods? 3b) Your argument makes no sense. Since whites are slightly more likely to use marijuana than blacks, it would make sense to target white neighborhoods more since they're more likely to be guilty of that offense than people in black neighborhoods. 4a) Blacks receive longer sentences on average FOR FIRST OFFENSES. Now what's your excuse for this? 4b) Most black arrested persons are gang members or have prior convictions? According to whom? 5) You claim inner cities are where "all the crime happens". According to what source? Use your brain and stop making shit up on the spot to excuse the police and legal system.
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  1202. @Maximum Desimus - After reading your post, my opinion hasn't changed much. You can only speak for your experiences with your family, that's not all Muslims or Christians. Your thought process starts from the assumption that religion conservatives are somehow following the faith more "correctly" than religious liberals which you cannot prove. You cannot prove what the "proper" way to practice a faith is or what the "correct" interpretation of a faith is, so the form followed by conservative Fundamentalists is no more correct or valid than religiously liberal followers. So, I see no hypocrisy in being a Progressive Christian or Muslim since the Bible and the Koran both have have tons of stuff that supports progressive ideology. Or appears to. It has tons of stuff that is or seems regressive as well and progressive religious people have their own interpretations that interpret it in a less sinister way or why it is dispensational or not important. Same with religious conservatives. They cherry-pick and ignore all the progressive stuff in the Bible and the Koran and have interpretations for why they should basically ignore it. Religious Fundies are actually no more literal followers at the end of the day than non-literalists. Biblical literalists don't generally give 10% of their income to the poor or turn the other cheek, do they? Religion is a man-made way to get in touch with the divine and Religion evolves like everything else. Are you a hypocrite for being a "liberal, but holding what most liberals view as a very illiberal view on Islam? Do you have to be 100% liberal on all issues to be a liberal? No. Likewise, you don't have to be a 100% literalist to be a "true follower" of a Religion. Lastly, Christianity outside of the Industrialized World is just as regressive and backwards generally as Islam. I fail to see how Islam is "worse" than other religions. How would you quantify that? India has a HUGE problem with Hindutva and Hindu Fundamentalists killing Muslims and Christiansand Buddhists and Hindu men raping women for "dressing improperly". Africa has a HUGE problem with corrective rape, killing gays and witches. Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan and Thailand have Buddhist terrorists. You perceive Islam as worse because they're "foreigners" attacking the West. Those other religious Fundamentalists are every bit as dangerous as Muslim ones, but since they're not attacking the West you see them as less of a problem. Christian Fundamentalists pass laws, hold office, control the US military and have access to nukes but you see them as less bad because they're "Western", therefore "less evil". Even though Muslim Fundamentalists hold no power in the US and pass no laws.
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  1205. MrPhilsterable - Sitting back and letting people bullshit and not pointing it out is not pushing back. You basically admitted that Rubin is like CNN: he plays False Equivalency and pretends all points of view are equally valid. I'm sorry, that's just not true and it does a disservice to viewers to allow propagandists to spread misinformation and disinformation with no resistance. Like Edward R. Murrow said: Journalism without hard-hitting questions and criticism is just PR. He's free PR for far-rightists to spread their message unopposed. Allowing people to come on and claim Young Earth Creationism is just as scientifically valid as Evolution, or that Global Warming is a conspiracy and scientists are hiding the evidence, or that the Earth is actually flat or that Trump's travel ban is perfectly legal, and not fact-checking them is just doing your audience a disservice. You're just being another CNN. Not all beliefs and political opinions deserve respect or to be treated as equally valid opinions. The hypocritical part is: I'm sure if a Progressive or Leftist or Muslim or anti-Zionist or SJW came on his show I'm quite sure he'd push back, question them, criticize them and fact-check them, and you'd probably bash him if he didn't. I know because he blames "the Left" and Muslims for all the world's problems. He only gives an open platform to right-wingers and interviews them without asking any hard questions or criticism. It's fine to have on people you vehemently disagree with. That doesn't mean you have to sit there and let them air their bullshit while you refrain from calling it what it is. Kyle Kulinski and David Pakman both have on people they vehemently disagree with but will still tell them to their face when they think they're full of shit after letting them speak first. Like Pakman did with Richard Spencer and Jesse Lee Peterson.
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  1428. That's the problem, though. The Bible, Koran, etc. are not "consistent" books. The positive stuff is just as much a part of them as the negative stuff. So while you can talk about positive religious people "cherry- picking the good stuff" the same could be said of religious fundies cherry-picking the bad stuff and ignoring parts that don't fit their agenda, like the Christian Right and Islamists do all the time. You're right that atheism is not a religion and has no holy book. I hear you on that, but atheism is still an idea (a rejection of theism), and any idea can be interpreted negatively in the wrong hands. Stalin and Mao could make just as much of a claim to be legitimate atheists as atheist Humanist icons who were legendary humanitarians, not unlike Religions. Because atheism and religions are all ideas, religions are just far more specific and codified, systematic ideas/ideologies. An Antitheist atheist who believes Religion is inherently bad/evil/repressive could (and some have) take that idea to the next level and decide that it's so dangerous/backwards/whatever that people who believe in it need to be killed for the good of Humanity (like Sam Harris's "Some ideas are so dangerous it is reasonable to kill people for believing in it" proposal). Harris is not the first man to have that idea and not all atheists disagree with him. It all comes down to what strand of the idea a person holds. Whatever holy books say it all comes down to how different denominations interpret them (Christianity, Islam, etc. are not monolithic). Unless you can prove there is an objective "correct" way to interpret the religion and texts, which if you can prove that you need come kind of award because no one has done that in all these thousands of years. Likewise, it all comes down to if a person interprets atheism to just be a non-belief in gods, or to be a commitment to purging the world of people who do that you view as "backwards".
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  1509. America's system is not a Parliamentary system like Britain or France. Corbyn is the actual leader of Labour while Bernie started out with NO PARTY APPARATUS. Corbyn started this Election already the leader of his Party. In Britain you can actually win 3rd Party. That's not feasible in the US. 3rd Parties aren't on the ballot in all states and the DNC and the RNC get to personally write the rules on the hoops 3rd Parties must jump through to be allowed to compete. Spoiler alert: The rules are written to be virtually impossible to meet. Bernie is doing what the Tea Party did in 2009: essentially lead a group of Independents to invade and take over one of the 2 Parties. That's what Bernie is doing now. Hence why the DNC hates his guts and endlessly whines about Bernie. They know what he's doing but know they may not be able to stop it in the long-run. If Bernie was a "company man" he'd have changed his views on critical policies and would never criticize Democratic leadership. Bernie isn't shy about calling out the DNC and corporate Democrats and hasn't budged an inch on policy. He's now the 3rd-most powerful person in the Democratic Party (whereas Corbyn started out as the actual LEADER, Bernie was not the leader in 2016, just a random small state Senator) and he's inviting left-wing Independents to help him invade and take over a Party you're sore at (rightfully so). That is not sheepdogging. Sheepdogging would be him asking you to get rid of your policy demands and accept Clintonian Third Way ideology or put up with it and him changing his own views.
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  1710. @Aaron Gaden - Ah, here comes the old "Motte and Bailey" tactic of retreating to a lesser controversial opinion and pretending you don't understand why I object to the less controversial opinion, even though that's not all you originally said. 1) I have no problem with criticizing Religion. Criticize it as much as you like as long as your criticism is based on fact. What I took issue with is Maximus specifically claimed Islam is a special evil MORE inherently evil than other religions and more irredeemable or incompatible with Western values. I challenged him on that because the Bible is every bit as violent as the Koran and the Bible is also littered with verses that appear to encourage killing or forcefully converting nonbelievers. So, I challenged him to quantify how Islam is supposedly worse or less compatible with Western values than other faiths or the other Abrahmic religions. 2) Had you read my (admittedly long) posts, I said religious conservatives are no less hypocrotical and don't suggest from any less cognitive dissonance than religious liberals. There are tons of liberal and progressive Biblical and Koranic verses that Christian conservative Fundamentalists and Muslim conservative Fundamentalists cherry-pick to ignore or explain away as "allegorical". How many conservative Christians give 10% of their earnings to the poor, turn the other cheek as a political policy or view becoming rich as a spiritual impediment like Christ taught? How many Conservative Muslims leave non-Muslims not bothering them in peace or go away if people aren't interested in converting to Islam like Muhammad said? You're arguing on the assumption that conservative and literal Istanbul and Fundamentalistinterpretations are the "correct" ones. Just like I would any Fundie, or challenge you to prove to me that Fundamentalists practice the correct version and that Fundamentalists are somehow cherry-picking any less than religious liberals. I assert there is no objectively correct the version of a faith. They're down to interpretation. 3) Christian Conservatives are as big of hypocrites as Islamists. I really don't care if they're offended since they're even bigger hypocrites than Liberals. Christian conservatives are every bit as homophobic, transphoic and regressive as Muslim Conservatives. The only thing going keeping them from killing them like their African brethren is Secular Rule of Law in the West. That's it. Christian Fundie are trying to outlaw abortion and ramp up out drone bombing overseas as we speak. That's no better than an Islamist.
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  1744. JordanScottMills - Respectfully, one of my Majors is in PoliSci, so I'm pretty confident I know what I'm talking about. I said that I "hate" Stalin, nowhere did I praise him as a great leader. I said the Left could use "some" Stalin in them at times, one of the few things about him that I viewed as effective. No leader is 100% negative or 100% positive. Stalin is not 100% negative and 100% evil and neither is Hitler. As a Leftist, I hate Hitler but he DID do a few good things for Germany. Just like Stalin did increase Russia's standard of living to equal some Western European countries when 40 years earlier it was a backwards agrarian society. Anyways, you contradict yourself, you got mad when I compared the alt-Right to Nazis but admit some are indeed Neo-Nazis. The alt-Right is not just kids in the Internet trolling (even though a casual review of their boards show most are serious with their views, they just use a Milo Yiannopoulos-like approach towards people who don't agree with them). Grown-ass adults are the ones who voted Trump into office. Mostly Baby Boomers and the Silent Generation. They comprise the majority of the alt-Right, not 4Channers and Redditors and /pol/ers. They're just the younger ones. Poll after poll of Trump voters shows the majority of them have an authoritarian worldview, agree with most of his most noxious policies and the majority continue to support Trump EVEN AFTER his disastrous 1st month in Office. Most support his most unpopular policies and most agree with him about his critics and what should be done to them. Yes, some Trump voters were simply desperate and some were disillusioned former Obama voters, but the majority *ARE NOT*. Polls show most hold odious and dangerous racial views, horrible views abutting immigrants and Muslims and bad policy positions. Not all Trump supporters are alt-Right, but most of the alt-Right are pure garage. So, you can take your chastising me elsewhere. I don't softsoap things. I'll call a spade a spade and many/most of the alt-Right are proto-Fascists (they even freely admit to being hypernationalists), Nativists, Producerists and Neo-Nazis.
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  1937. FuckYouYouFuck - "but they used their power to make laws and enforce traditions that advantaged men, would you call that society matriarchal?" Technically it would be in power but not in deeds it grants to the people not in power. "but I think equality of opportunity amongst genders is pretty close. Women graduate university at a higher rate than men, for example" While that's true that's not necessarily due to equality of opportunity. That's because more women than men go to college, so more also graduate. Men are actually technically overrepresented in college - there are more men in college than there are that apply for college percentage-wise. If there were full equality of opportunity there'd probably be a lower amount of men in college since women make up a good majority of college applicants and women in general tend to have higher GPAs than men. There are many counter-examples I could point out where society and institutions are unfair to women. Women are more likely to be penalized when asking for a raise compared to men and are given lower starting salaries for the same exact jobs.  We've come a long way but we've still got distance to go. As for economics law that thing with salaries is one example I was talking about. Even though gender discrimination is technically illegal the system allows it to exist (at least de facto) at huge rates. Women are given lower starting salaries than men for the same exact jobs, most of these employers are never penalized. Likewise racial discrimination is illegally but still widely exists anyway (de facto). Blacks with equal credentials are 50% less likely than equally qualified white counterparts to get hired. Most of those employers never suffer or pay a penalty. Because laws exist doesn't mean they're enforced. Look at all the abridgments the GOP makes of Separation of Church and State laws.
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  1938. Stig Helmer - "If women can influence politics to provide special benefits just for women" There are no laws in the US that are made only for women. Women are the majority group that take advantage of or are the beneficiaries of certain laws (such as family court laws) but no laws currently exist that only women can legally apply for.  "then there most certainly isn't any "patriarchy" False. By that logic there is no racism in America since minorities have been able to affect policy to provide benefits for minority groups. Again you're making the false equivalence that patriarchy requires a complete and absolute. That need not be true just like because America no longer has slavery or Jim Crow does not mean it is no longer a racist society or that white privilege no longer exists. "protective laws, shorter punishment for crimes, health and financial benefits" None of these laws are laws only women can apply for. There is no special protection law for women or special finance laws only for women (there are women-specific health insurance plans, but that's due to biology). Men simply file restraining orders much less often and less often qualify for child support since mothers make up the majority of parents with custody and women earn more than men about 1/3 of the time. The parent with primary custody gets child support regardless of gender. Alimony is given to whatever former spouse earned less (which 2/3 to 3/4 of the time is the wife). Women can also go to jail now for not paying child support. I should know, I handled cases like that for the State of Maryland when I worked for the govt. Minority males are eligible for Affirmative Action. Again, it's not only for women.
    3
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  2018. notalefty999 - "the fact that a hugely disproportionate focus is on white racism" Hugely disproportionate according to whom? What percentage of the time should they focus on that and how much are they currently? Mind backing your claim with some data on how often TYT focused on white racism compared to how often they supposedly should? "Anyway watching TYT videos would conclude that interracial violence in america is overwhelmingly white on black" Speak for yourself. TYT openly states that white offenders with black victims are more likely to get off. They've never stated who make up the most victims. And really the answer to that would depend on your focus. If you're focusing on sheer numbers or per capita proportion. "Individual whites overwhelmingly have ZERO political power" An individual white person on average has more political power than an individual black person on average because the individual white person has people in power to represent them. The average white American also has more money and more resources than the average black American. You know why? Because we don't exist as atomic monads in a vacuum. We all live in an interconnected society. You're proposing a hypothetical that does not exist in real life. Every individual is connected to another individual, which in turn gives them differing degrees of power. "The fact that the tiny number of people who do have power are white doesnt help white people" That's like saying the fact only a tiny number of people represent the rich in the US doesn't help them.... The tiny number of people who represent white Americans still FAR OUTNUMBERS the much tinier number of people who represent black Americans. "without any reference to the wishes of the people adversely affected by these policies" That's largely because the people the laws mostly affect (minorities) are the weakest and most vulnerable groups. A law that adversely affected white people in general at the benefit of minorities likely would not pass in the first place or at the very least would not stand for long. Let alone be upheld by the Supreme Court.
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  2027. UltraSWG - Agree with you totally, man. I'm just about as Lefty as they come overall (Libertarian Socialist) but I think that in a society with a level of sophistication about Stone Age or early-Bronze Age that some type of legal "marriage" is necessary. When I was a late teen/young adult and in college I went through my "Marriage is a complete sham - Polyamory forever!" stage but I eventually grew out of it. I grew out of it because I realized: 1) Yes, many animals are not monogamous. Even though humans (at least some) have the hormones to be polyamorous, on average we get too emotionally attached and feel too much sexual/emotional jealousy for polyamory to work out for most people. It would be different if we could just screw away and not feel a thing for the people we sleep with. Some can but not many. 2) Humans are a pair-bond species, like you said, and throughout most of our history almost every society on every continent has invented some way way to formalize a lifelong or long-term pair-bonding. I don't think it can all just be chalked up to patriarchy. There's more to it than that. 3) If marriage didn't exist it would be a legal nightmare. How would you determine which girlfriend or boyfriend of the person should have final rights when their lover or former lover passes away? Ex: What if a guy was with a certain girlfriend but always considered a past girlfriend his "true love" that he couldn't be with for whatever reason? Should she get legal priority over his final girlfriend? 4) I hate to say it but, as a black man, looking at the situation of a lot of low-income urban and rural households speaks to how well "polyamory" often works out in real life. It's often a mess. Single women with kids from different baby daddies who refuse to commit and men who bounce from woman to woman throughout their lives and can't divide themselves among all their various kids with different women.
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  2056. KalabariJahNi - "using negative programmed stereotype is wrong" Now this is where you REALLY lost me. How the hell is liking ribs or salsa NEGATIVE? Is there something inherently wrong with those foods? As a black man I feel about those stereotypes the way Dave Chappelle feels about the stereotype of black people and chicken - "Who the hell are all these people who hate chicken?" Why is liking chicken a bad thing? Why is black folks liking ribs negative? How is Latinos liking salsa negative? How is gay people being interested in sweets negative? Because some bigoted idiots use it as a lame insult? The idiocy lies with people who try to use these stereotypes as something bad. Stereotyping black folks as being violent is negative, but I never understood why us stereotypically liking ribs or chicken is supposed to be something negative. I think that's the fundamental miscommunication between us. I would agree with your post if you were talking about something like stereotypes such as black folks being lazy and violent; or Asians being sexually inept and authoritarian; or white people being genocidal and racist. But being stereotyped as liking certain foods is akin to that? I just don't see the stereotype of gays liking to buy cakes as being morally equivalent to, say, the stereotype that gay men are AIDS-carriers.  "I am so glad that my predecessors were outraged at the notion that persons of non-European descent were lessor humans incapable of learning, needing to be conquered and civilized" And as an African-American I'm glad some (not at all, there are still a lot of white people today who still think that way) of your ancestors were outraged at that notion too. Lol But I fail to see how the stereotype that we like ribs and/or chicken is equivalent to stereotyping black people as subhuman.  A stereotype is not inherently bad (though I think stereotypes are usually unnecessary) and I wasn't arguing whether they are good or bad. My argument was purely that there is a kernel of truth to some of them and companies market to certain demographics based on that kernel of truth. The kernel of truth in question isn't a bad thing IMHO. If the stereotype is 100% truth that gays like cakes, Latinos like salsa and black folks like ribs who gives a shit? How is that a bad thing? What's wrong with liking any of those things?
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  2067. Thursday121am - Protip: Disagreeing with you or an MRA does not make one a "Radical Feminist". I'm an Equalist. But anyways: "Warren Farrell challenged the simplicity of the feminist notion" Which has FUCK ALL to do with the fact he's been defensive of men who commit Date Rape, saying it's often partly the woman's fault and he's defended father-daughter incest. "If a woman is saying "No" with her verbal language and "Yes" with her body languages, then that's sending mixed messages and she's more likely to get raped as a result" That's fucking bullshit and you know it. How does a woman say "Yes" with a her body language? Because you willfully want to interpret her as saying "Yes" despite saying "No"? If a woman (or any person) says "No" and you continue and force yourself on them anyway that's Rape. Cut and dry. Unless the person made it clear they enjoy you continuing to kiss them or be intimate with them and let it happen and express consent. If a person says "No" and you continue it's Rape even if they don't scream or fight. This is BASIC stuff you get taught in school. Rape is not the fault of the victim. Regardless of Gender. Only a total sperglord RadMRA would say that women get raped because they give "mixed messages". "Warren Farrel, Karen Straughan and the others you mentions are far from radical." Those are all radical messages. Saying Rape should be legal, martial rape should be decriminalized, Paul Elam saying he would never vote "Guilty" against an accused male rapist, that it's good for men to sometimes hit women when they're angry (Karen Straughan), hoping a woman gets raped (The Amazing Atheist), supporting incest and saying Rape is partly women's fault for "date fraud" (Warren Ferrell) are all radical sentiments in any sane person's book. But you're a Neckbeard. You're not sane. These aren't radical beliefs to you because you yourself are an MRA extremist.
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  2094. MasterC2121 - "39.8% of welfare recipients are African American" False. 35% of people on TANF are black. It was 39.8% back in 1990 (your data is helluva old). It's not 39.8% of black people on welfare. There are 12.8 million Americans on welfare and 35% of them (which is about 4.55 million) are black. There are about 42 million black people in America and only about 4.55 million of them are on TANF. As you can see this is FAR less than 40% of black people. http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/ "The top "red" states collecting the most welfare have historically  elected democrat congressmen and senators" Sir, I am amazed I directly asked for you a citation of: 1) How you determined what red states are the "top" red states receiving federal funds. What determines if they are the "top red state" or "bottom red state"? 2) A source that shows they have elected only Democrats at both the state and federal level. So, again, what is your source the "top red states" receiving welfare only elect Democrats? Since you refused to provide a source I have to conclude that you are intentionally lying. "Therefore it is erroneous to blame this debacle on republicans" These states are called "Red States" precisely because they primarily elect Republicans....Why do you think they're called "red states"? So how are Republicans not to blame when Republicans are the primary electorate in these states and make up most of their elected officials? Stop being dishonest.  Again, as we can see, the majority of states receiving more from the federal govt than they give back are conservative/Republican states: http://www.politicususa.com/2012/09/17/dear-republicans-defending-romneys-47-remarks-talking.html The data is from the conservative-leaning Tax Foundation.
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  2116. enacra101 - "How does a community that comes from significantly tougher circumstances, climb over greater hurdles to beat yours out in a matter a few decades" I know you're not talking to me but the answer is easy: Most African immigrants come from educated, middle class backgrounds in their home countries. Same with Asian, Indian, and Middle Eastern immigrants. On the other hand, African-Americans are mostly descendants of uneducated slaves who couldn't even read or write and who couldn't legally even have an equal education until 1965. That's how. African, Asian, Indian and Middle Eastern immigrants all have higher educational attainment rates than native-born white Americans as well. Why is that? Same reason above: they're self-selected. A lot of white Americans are descendants of poor white indentured servants. She also had a point that had it not been for the Civil Rights Movement you and your family wouldn't even be over here. You'd be in Africa much less well-off. "You're family worked hard to succeed? NO, MINE busted there ass to succeed" That's quite ignorant of you. How the hell would you know how hard her family worked or how hard your family worked compared to hers? BTW, it's "their".  "meanwhile I had to deal with crap from people like you putting me down" Welcome to America. African-Americans put up with crap all the time from people like you lumping us all together as a bunch of welfare cases and putting us down telling us we didn't achieve anything of our own efforts.
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  2139. think about it - Thanks for sharing your thoughts too! I see we do have a difference of opinion but I try to be fair to your opinion as well. The Communism you're describing is the policy of countries controlled by Communist Parties. Their particular ideology was usually Stalinism or Maoism (different flavors of Bolshevism). They believed the State could be used to redistribute Capitalism into Socialism and then into Communism. That was Lenin's interpretation of Marx's "dictatorship of the proletariat" maxim (of course evidence shows their interpretation was likely WAY different from Marx's). They never proclaimed to have achieved communism, they claimed to be in transition towards it. Some other communist ideologies, like anarcho-communism, propose that the State can never create a communistic society and that it can only be reached with the abolition of the state along with capitalism. Anarchism itself is compatible with communism but it is also compatible with other economic systems like socialism, collectivism, individualism and Georgism. Some argue it's compatible with capitalism ("anarcho-capitalism"), but I largely disagree with the latter. I think it's only compatible with capitalism if capitalism gets rid of most of its involuntary hierarchy and free from the influence of monopolies, oligopolies and cartels, and people are free to renegotiate or leave contracts. Basically it would have to change to the point of becoming very similar to Individualist Anarchism (which is an anarchistic flavor of Market Socialism), it would barely be capitalism anymore.  Personally I'm a Libertarian Socialist and I tend to be non-partisan towards different varieties of socialism and communism. I like your idea about how wealth need not be solely classified as capital or monetary resources. I think as economies and societies become more advanced in the future expanding the definition of "wealth" will become very important, even vital. Thanks for sharing your viewpoints with me.
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  2190. Matt W - "a person who says that he likes food will eat every orderve offered" Based on what? I like food and I most certainly will not eat every h'ors d'oeuvre offered to me. I'm kinda picky about food and I try not to be a glutton. You need to speak for yourself.  "and satisfy his cravings with something as simple as a ham sandwich if need be.  If a person says that he likes food, but will have only lobster and caviar, I'm more likely to believe that the one who truly likes food is the guy eating the ham sandwich" This is what Psychologists call "Projection". Because you exert little self-control or low urge resistance you presume everyone else is the same way. "Women are not sexually driven like men" Present your scientific/medical evidence. Particularly because this claim of yours is a "truism" stemming from the 19th century. In Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome the idea was that women are MORE sexual than men and a man who cannot control his sexual urges/lusts is un-masculine. So, obviously your belief is not a universally-believed ideal. "they do not masturbate nearly as much as men" Are you basing that on self-reporting? I'm highly skeptical of self-reporting because women tend to publicly downplay their sexuality, especially around men or in mixed company, for fear of being seen as "sluts". What do you think women do when you hear them swooning over male celebrities, singers, dancers, male models, etc. Just swoon and sigh but that's out? You honestly believe those women aren't rubbing one out over the guys? It's cute you seem to actually believe in that 19th century "Women are all chaste/demure/virginal flowers" hogwash.
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  2237. Omphi193 - By "rich" I define it the way economists define it: a person with personal revenue in excess of $250,000-350,000/year. In France it would only be people with income over that mark who would be affected by this tax rate. A small business owner who earns $140,000/year is a capitalist, but is not "rich". "Average" means typical or the majority. Not necessarily a specific number.  "What are your numbers in relations to" The 75% tax rate is the marginal federal income tax rate pay people on every dollar they earn over over that $250-350,000/year mark. 75% is the statutory rate (the number they would pay by default without all the other factors). The effective rate is the rate they ACTUALLY end up paying after deductions, exemptions, write-offs, credits, etc. are factored in. The 75% tax rate is on personal income (salary) ONLY. Not on dividends or capital gains. Most rich people gain the majority of their personal annual revenue from capital gains and dividends, not their salary. Most rich people DO NOT earn most of their money from paychecks like you and other Working Joes. A lot of people work from the false assumption that rich people get paid paycheck-to-paycheck like most people. They don't. "You seem to understand how the french economic system works in detail than I" To be honest I understand the American tax system much more in-depth but the French system works pretty similar to how our tax system works. They seem to have fewer deductibles and less exemptions, though. That's probably why the French effective income tax rate is higher than the American effective income tax rate. Theirs is like 22-25% for most rich people, ours is like 14-18% for most rich people.
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  2253. yknot000 - Sanders is little more than an FDR Democrat, that's not "extreme" at all. Democrats have been running "Centrists" for years and they keep getting their asses kicked. The only reason Obama won was because he portrayed himself as damn near Bernie Sanders (of course he pulled a bait-and-switch when he governed, hence why the Democrats lost popularity). Everyone already knows Bernie is a Socialist, if you know nothing else about Bernie almost everyone knows that. Most people do not care. Bernie remains the most popular politician in America. Poll after poll shows 20-30% of Trump voters admit they would have voted for Bernie had he been available. Correct The Record have been smearing Bernie for months, it just doesn't work. Most people don't give a damn that he considers himself a Socialist. EVERY DEMOCRAT WHO IS CALLED A SOCIALIST BY REPUBLICANS ANYWAY NO MATTER WHAT. They called and STILL Hillary Corporatist Clinton a "Marxist" for God's sakes. Obama has been called a Communist Black Panther who hates white people every day since 2007, it did nothing to stop him. He went on to win twice. If a black man with a "scary Muslim name" being called an anti-white Communist black radical (and he actually DID used to be a Communist who hung out with black radicals) EVERY DAY didn't phase Obama, why would it supposedly harm and old Larry David impersonator? Not to mention polls show most Americans under 40 like Socialism better than Capitalism. Whether or not you agree with them, that's how they feel.
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  2295. bulbinking - 6-8 occurrences isn't really much to talk about. 6 to 8 unconnected crimes, spread out over years, out of the tens to hundreds of thousands of crimes a year that occur in NYC, is minuscule. There have probably been more people in New York state struck by lightning in the last 10 years than have been a victim of "Knockout". Are you now accusing the NYPD of engaging in a conspiratorial cover-up?  "I guess you are one of the ones who got out of the thick of it" I'm originally from Mississippi. Live in Tennessee, Kentucky and Alaska for a while (military brat). Been in Maryland since the late 90s. Nowhere I've lived, even when I lived in majority-black neighborhoods, have I ever heard of anything like this. "Otherwise you would know that lean is a common and popular thing which teens do" Says who? "it even has a wiki page" A Wiki page? Must be serious business! :o But a quick look at the Wiki page: "Some have cast doubt that the knockout game is a trend and have called it a myth or an example of panic" In the "Race" section it continues: "Jeffrey Butts, the director of John Jay College of Criminal Justice's Research and Evaluation Center at the City University of New York (CUNY), stated that “There's an element to who wants to see this through the lens of race" and that the fear stems from racial roots" "Multiple people this year alone have died from it" Names, dates and incident locations, please. "and what blacks do you know who go reporting crimes to the police?" Uh, my many of my relatives and their black neighbors. Myself (I'm part of my local neighborhood watch). -___- Anyways, now you're admitting there is little evidence and blaming it on victims not reporting it. So how do you know it's even happening then if it's not being reported? What you just said goes to one of the hearts of the problem. This blog (yep, a blog this time) does a pretty good job pointing out the absurdity with this Internet rumor: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christandpopculture/2013/11/the-knockout-game-myth-and-its-racist-roots/ "In order to draw any remotely competent conclusion about these assaults, you’d have to deal with all the above problems and also consider if crimes by whites are reported as frequently as crimes by blacks, whether teens of other races might refer to the game by another name or not label it at all, how the percentage of attacks by blacks compares to the general percentage of assaults by black teens, and so on. Analyzing data is not as simple as watching some YouTube videos and Googling “knockout game.” Just like I can't go watch some YouTube videos on hate crimes committed by white supremacists and use that as "evidence" to conclude there's a national epidemic of white people waging race war against black people.
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  2340. 1a) Bullshit. Southern Democrats voted for politicians whose policies are largely similar to modern Republicans and many/most Southern Dem voters voted locally for Republicans for a few decades leading up to 1965. FDR lost much of the southern vote after his first term. Most Democratic voting in the South was out of regional habit - the South associated the Dems with the Confederacy up until the progressive Northern wing decisively took over in the 60s: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/09/09/misunderstanding_the_southern_realignment_107084.html The Southern Realignment is easily confirm able and almost universally agreed upon by historians, academics and political scientists. Not something "liberals" made up. The only way your "theory" would work is that white Southerners would have had to massively change their political stance from Liberal to Conservative in just 50 years or the liberals must have moved North and the conservatives moved a South. Neither is true. The liberal Northeast and West Coast used to be a Republican stronghold prior to FDR and JFK. Did the Coasts used to be conservative strongholds? No. The Republican Party used to be liberal before the 1920s and 30s and people reflexively associated the GOP with the Union. No one denies the Dems had a racist past, their present, however, is largely not racist. The Republicans had an anti-racist past. Their present, however, is not, because they adopted the Dixiecrats and their descendants as their adopted children. 1b) THE SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS CALLED THEHMSELVES CONSERVATIVE. They were the main bulk of the anti-Civil Rights CONSERVATIVE COALITION.
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  2448. HammerheadGuitar - It hasn't cost Bernie any support, so why would it harm Justice Democrats? There aren't enough xenophobes and racists to doom anyone who touched social justice. You see how few votes Trump got, you just need to motivate the other side to come out.They need economic justice to go along with the social justice rhetoric. By your logic, you'll lose if you have different solutions for a homeless starving man and a middle-class suburban family in debt. People have different issues. Ignoring that and pretending everyone is suffering equally and suffering in the exact same way is ineffective (obviously a homeless man and a middle-class family don't have the same exact issues) and can come off as patronizing and insulting. It would eventually involve pretending Racism does that exist or isn't a big problem (since most whites are not effected by it while other groups are), pretending xenophobia doesn't exist (since that's an immigrant-specific issue), or pretending Sexism isn't a big deal. It would be class reductionism which is no better than SJW-ism because not all problems are an issue of Class. Even Karl Marx said that. If you can address Gay Marriage, which doesn't affect everyone since most Americans aren't gay, you can address minority, immigrant, gender, etc. issues. The Establishment Democrats make the mistake of running on social issues with no economic justice alongside it (and really don't do anything for social justice other than rhetoric). We're not going to make the opposite mistake of running on economic justice whole ignoring social justice. You should listen to MLK. Aside from criticizing conservatives, he also criticized white liberals who shied away from social justice for fear of offending bigots.
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  2466. AsifIcarebear3 - "Theft is something bad that can happen to you" Now that's a moronic statement. Because 2 things are both "something bad that can happen to you" does not mean they can be prevented in the same manner or are similar things. Cancer and Suicide are both bad things that can happen to you. Obviously they don't have the same cause and they can't be prevented in the same way most of the time. "You're able to increase or decrease your risk of rape" You can't decrease your risk of being raped anywhere near the amount of being a victim of theft. Women get raped in broad daylight while wearing conservative clothing all the time. Women usually get raped by someone they know, not random strangers who pull them into alleys at night (like the common stereotype). Some of the so-called "suggestions" on how to reduce risk of being raped are also unreasonable. You could reduce risk of being a theft victim by having less stuff, earning less money and never leaving your house. Are those reasonable suggestions? "you're at an increased risk of murder if you walk into a bar full of murderers" Another moronic statement. How the fuck would you necessarily know who at the bar is a murderer unless they've been accused or arrested for murder before and you've seen their picture or heard their name on the news? Likewise, you can't necessarily know who is a rapist until they actually try it on you first. Unless you know of them and have heard them accused of rape by others. Murderers and Rapists usually don't have a specific appearance that says "Hello. I am a murderer/rapist." Contrary to Hollywood movie portrayal. They look like everyday people. "is in the 100% same risk of getting raped as one who stumbles home alone, black out drunk, through a bad neighbourhood?" It depends. People get raped in "nice neighborhoods" all the time. Sometimes in the company of friends. Your friends are actually statistically more likely to rape you than strangers.  "Not a single word about how she's to blame for a potential rape" Alright, maybe when we hear about murder victims or robbery victims on TV we should talk about how they could have prevented their victimization. I mean, maybe if OJ's wife hadn't looked so vulnerable and made him upset she wouldn't have gotten killed. Not a single word about how she's to blame in her situation! eyeroll Now do you see the logical fallacy in your argument?
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  2566. The Southern Strategy and dog-whistle racism of the GOP is only part of why black voters don't tend to vote GOP. Aside from that, and the fact the GOP often openly supports policies that often disproportionately harms poor minorities, the GOP's general philosophy itself is alien to the spirit/mindset of much of the Black Community. The modern GOP's worldview is a mindset of rugged individualism, capitalist materialism, expansionist/hawkish foreign policy, traditionalism and nationalism. African-American culture, being influenced by West African culture, tends to be heavy on communalism and the idea of social support for the needy, and thus tends to eschew hyper-individualism and laissez-faire capitalism. White conservatives have a social mindset influenced by Puritan-era "Protestant work ethic" (don't worry about anyone outside of yourself and your immediate family) and Herbert Spencer-style Liberalism. African-Americans also tend to be less gung-ho about the flag-waving mindset (obviously given our country's very checkered history and present towards us) and tend to not favor foreign wars. Often because, due to our experiences, African-Americans can easily sympathize with poor people in the (almost always) 3rd world countries we want to attack. African-Americans tend to be pretty critical of the US's govt when it comes to nation-building and tend to feel tax money is better spent helping struggling Americans at home rather than giving it to the already-successful or spending it on wars in poor countries.  The Reagan Republican "Let businesses do whatever they want and it'll all work out in the end" and "Every man is an island unless his family or charity wants to help him" mindset doesn't jibe with the communalist black Protestant outlook of most black voters. Though black voters often tend to share similar social views with white Evangelicals (though less so with young black voters). Black voters tend to be economically and politically progressive but religiously conservative and socially conservative (but a Civil Rights Era Protestant communitarian-style social conservatism, not a "rugged individualist Bootstraps Philosophy" kind).
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  2599. Look guys, I'm a black Bernie supporter (Bernie 2020!) and I think you guys should listen more often to us nonwhite Progressives and nonwhite Bernie supporters. I really hate to go there, but this has to be said (many of us feel this way since Charlottesville): I suspect some white Progressives are overly tolerant and indulgent of the alt-Right (not ALL Trump voters, just his remaining supporters and the active alt-Right) because they're fellow white non-Muslims. A lot of white people, including white Progressives (Kyle and Jimmy Dore included, sorry), probably because the alt-Right are mostly fellow preppy or "normal all-American"-looking white guys, see them and go "Yeah, they're fucking awful, but C'MON!! Th-th-th-th-they're not truly evil! They're just economically anxious and scared!! If only they could hear the Good News and Word of Bernie Sanders/Progressivism/Social Democracy they'd sober up and become good people and stop their racism. Come on! See! A few former Neo-Nazis even de-converted! We can help these lost souls. They just need jobs." Although though I think this bias in these white Progressives is unconscious, not intentional or malicious, just an unconscious Tribalism. Welp, you see just how the alt-Right returns the favor of Progressives "taking the high road" and trying to heal and "understand" them. They just shit in your face and laugh as you cough, then take out a knife to try to stab you while you're down rolling on the ground in a coughing fit. Just like the Nazis of Old did to Neville Chamberlain and Americans who wanted to stay out of the War. Take it from us nonwhite Progressives who have dealt with white supremacy our whole lives: THEY. WILL. NOT. CHANGE. AND. WILL. NOT. STOP. THEY. ARE. LITERAL. FASCISTS. AND. NAZIS. They see this as a "Racial Holy War" for the "Survival of the White Race and Western Civilization". They view Progressives and Socialists as even more of an enemy than they view Establishment Democrats, as they view us Lefties as "Commies". Which is to a Nazi as a Satanist is to a Fundamentalist Christian or Fundamentalist Muslim. Treat and view the alt-Right the same as you would someone who has become a radical Islamist who has pledged allegiance to ISIS. Work from the assumption they are a lost cause. View them as a ticking time bomb you're now simply in damage control mode to prevent them from killing anyone, just like any ISIS sympathizer. Just like with ISIS, the goal now is to prevent more people from joining the alt-Right, not wasting time on successfully de-converting maybe 5-10% at best of current alt-Righters or ISIS members. The alt-Right are not fellow anti-Establishment brothers-in-arms who are just wrong-headed and just waiting for the Good Messiah Bernie Sanders to convert them to Progressivism. They're a lost cause just like most German adults who signed up to join the Wehrmacht under Hitler. Treat them as such. They are enemies. I'm sorry, some of your fellow white neighbors and family members have declared themselves your enemy. It's a tragedy, but that's what it's come to. Just like you view Centrist Democrats as the enemy, that goes double for the alt-Right. Centrists want you immobilized and powerless but still want you alive to lend your unquestioning vote in election years. The alt-Right wants you DEAD. They view you white Progressives as "race traitor cucks" who must be liquidated for the Good of the White Race and Western Civilization. Just go to YouTube videos of Charlottesville and read the alt-Right comments in a comment section. Thst tells you all you need to know. Christopher Cantwell's attitude is not an outlier among the alt-Right, it's the norm. He said "We will fucking KILL these people (Progressives/Leftists) if we have to!" White Progressives, Leftists and Bernie supporters, that means *YOU*. Like I said, most of the alt-Right are as lost as people who have pledged allegiance to ISIS. They're even copying ISIS tactics now and are trying to recreate their terror attacks from the 90s, like the recent foiled plot to bomb another federal building. Sorry, but we can't save everyone. I know many of us bleeding heart Lefties would love it if was like Bernie is a reincarnation of Jesus Christ who can heal every bigot's heart with the Gospel of Progressivism, but that's not how it is. You can't simply cure all bigots by loving and understanding them. To use Christian terminology, some people are just "of a reprobate mind", meaning they no longer even care if they're evil, or they're SO deluded they somehow STILL believe "We Nazis and Confederate are the good guys!". Let's always be there for any former Trump supporters or former Trump voters who want to make good or make amends, but don't waste your time trying to heal and "understand" people who willfully chose to side with one of the apexes of human evil. Don't reach out to them unless they express honest, heartfelt desire to leave to you first. Otherwise, just write them off as a terrorist sympathizer and don't bother trying to be kind and civil.
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  2770. As someone who is a kidney transplant recipient, yes, they can indeed deny you a transplant if you refuse to comply with medical requirements. They can also deny you if you're too overweight. I had to lose weight to get a transplant. Organs available for transplant are criminally low and most people wait for YEARS for a transplant. I waited for 7 years for a kidney. Because of the low supply of organs all doctors and hospitals ration the organs and eliminate from consideration patients who are unwilling to follow medical requirements. An unwillingness to obey tge medical requirements means you're high risk to not properly take care of your new organ and end up losing it. You have to comply with a strict regime of immunosuppressive medications for the rest of your life and you'll need to get a battery if different vaccinations both before and after your organ transplant. If you're the type of person who hates to take meds and show a pattern of being lax or unwilling to take medication, or are an anti-vaxxer you're highly likely to lose your organ by your immune system killing the organ. If you don't follow doctor instructions your body can wind up rejecting the organ by attacking and killing it with your immune system; or you can get sick with diseases that will kill the organ. If you won't get vaccinated you're very likely to get sick with a disease that kills the transplant. Hospitals don't want to waste precious limited resources (organs) on obstinate, defiant, and hard-headed patients who won't follow instructions and wind up killing the organ. It's a waste of an organ that could have gone to a much more deserving patient who would have complied, followed instructions, and kept the organ healthy for decades.
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  2839. @ 3:20 - Now Cenk sounds like he's FINALLY starting to understand where Libertarian Socialists and other anti-authoritarian Socialists are coming from. Contrary to Conservative and Right-Libertarian belief the State is usually the Capitalist Class's partner-in-crime. Not their enemy or an evil oppressor of capitalists who taxes them just to be mean or just for the hell of it. Capital and the State are like two robbers working together. One is the Brain, the other is the Muscle. Sometimes they disagree (sometimes capitalists grumble and complain about tax rates or certain regulations), the that's because the criminals occasionally have differing opinions on how to best go about achieving their common goal. The State thinks about how to preserve Capitalism in the long-run while most capitalists are just thinking about their short-term profit margins, usually not thinking about long-term effects and ramifications. The State will sometimes give concessions to the Proletariat in order to calm them down and keep them from rebelling and chopping heads off. Even if it means upsetting the Bourgeoisie or temporarily causing them to make sacrifices.  And contrary to Progressive belief the State does this to co-opt the Proletariat in order to protect the interests of the Bourgeoisie for the long-haul. Not because the State truly cares for for 99% as much as it cares for the 1%. The Bureaucratic/Coordinator Class is yet another elite class that works hand-in-hand with the Capitalist Class.
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  2862. Scott Williams - Atheism through oppression is exactly the same as religion through oppression. Atheism didn't lead State Atheist regimes to be any better or brighter than State Theist/Theocractic regimes. Atheism didn't prevent Soviets from believing in nonsense like Lysenkoism, Antisemitism, Russian supremacy, or made-up illnesses like "Sluggish Schizophrenia". That made-up mental illness was a convenient justification they used to imprison, kill or involuntarily commit anyone who disagreed with or spoke out against the regime, or just anyone someone personally didn't like. The Soviet government concluded that Religion, Spirituality or religious, spiritual or mystical belief is a "mental illness" called "Sluggish Schizophrenia", therefore anyone who is openly religious or spiritual is a certifiable nutcase who needs to be involuntarily committed. Even though I'm not a religious man, that's why I cringe when I see Neo-Atheists on the Internet claiming all religious or supernatural belief is a mental illness (something no certified medical or psychiatric institution would agree with, some atheists apparently just declared themselves psychiatric experts on their own on the Internet). If you view anyone who disagrees with you as "crazy" just for believing something different than you it's a very short trip to thinking they need to be stopped for their own good and "the greater good". If you view someone a "crazy" it's easy to be okay with dragging them off and locking them up.
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  2904. tharpoon - "society in general has a negative view of males" I think you're WAAAY over-generalizing. The average person does not think men are bad (or good) or think women are good (or bad). I can list as many negative social stereotypes about women as you list about men. Like stereotypes of women being bitchy, over-emotional, irrational, untrustworthy, backstabbing, vengeful, entitled, unqualified, ungrateful, etc. That doesn't mean society overall views women negatively because popular negative stereotypes do exist. "but its still seen as bad" It depends on the situation and the individual. Most people don't see insulting or criticizing a woman as bad unless part of the motive of your criticism is because they're a woman. Of course there are some people that will applaud misogyny but I think they tend to be a minority (I think/hope). Likewise there are people who will view criticism as bad if you criticize a man partly because he's a man, though there are people who will applaud misandry too.  It all depends on the people and situation. I will say people tend to have more tolerance for people being rude to men, including other men. I think it has little to do with feminism and more to do with the fact that people expect men to be emotionally tougher than women and less liable to cry or fall apart. It's another social stereotype that's existed since ancient (and likely prehistoric) times. That particular double standard doesn't have much to do with feminism because even though it's unfair to men it's actually an expectation that assumes women are more psychologically fragile than men. It was created during times when women had little power.
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  2905. tharpoon - As a person who considers themself a feminist (and a masculist too) I agree with about 85% of what you said. The only part I would have disagreement with is that many of the negative stereotypes of men already existed before feminism. Part of it was a natural consequence of the unrealistic standards and beliefs society traditionally holds about men: viewing us as hunters, always thinking about sex, prone to masculine aggression, etc. Naturally that leads to negative stereotypes such as us being seen as violent, unreasonable, piggish, etc. I think some of the more extreme forms of feminism have definitely helped but I think it's more them piling on than making up new prejudices. I agree with you totally about people being more likely to get upset overall if you criticize a female. Even if it's a female who more than deserves the criticism. I notice though that people tend to be more okay with criticizing women if the woman is portrayed as promiscuous or "loose". It's part of the "slut-shaming" mentality. I remember on that ABC show "What Would You Do?" people were inclined to help a woman if they saw a guy at a bar harassing her and the woman seemed innocent-like. If the woman was dressed provactively and spoke more loudly people were less willing to help and more likely to defend the actions of the man harassing her for sex. Some feminists do exaggerate about the social and legal positions of women, but so do some MRAs exaggerate about the position of women. I would say the truth is often somewhere in-between. 
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  2916. I'm black and this was just fucking embarrassing. These people felt like cartoon characters, they seemed like a walking stereotype of everything racist conservatives claim black civil rights activists are. What the hell did they expect from O'Malley and Sanders? What exactly did they want them to say? Go "Kill the White Man" and throw up a Black Power fist? You honestly think this kind of extremist, exclusivist "only my oppression counts and should be addressed!"-style identity politics is going to gain support outside the black community? Fuck no! Like it or not, black people are only 13-14% of the population. There is no way in hell we are going to get anywhere without the support of non-black people. We need the support of at least 51% of Americans if we want serious change. Like it or not WE NEED TO GAIN SUPPORT FROM NON-BLACK PEOPLE FOR OUR CAUSE TO GO ANYWHERE. You aren't going to change policies with all-black-only-black support. That's why the Gay Rights Movement has been a smashing success and gained ground so quickly. They worked to gain the hearts and minds of the non-gay majority and show everybody gays are just like everyone else at the end of the day. You aren't going to win people over by going "Fuck everybody else, only my issues or suffering matters!" I understand we black people have some unique issues that do need special address, but you don't get that done by burning bridges with everyone else, including your allies. That just pisses people off and makes them abandon you. You get support by building bridges and showing how your issues tie into other people's issues. Show others how you're not-so-different from them. Certain parts of the black civil rights movement have gone the way of extreme Feminists/Tumblr RadFems, Redditor MRAs/RedPillers and "Die cis-scum"-type SJWs. An insular, Oppression Olympics special snowflake circlejerk. They're a hinderance to their own goddamn movement and prevent legitimate issues they bring up from being seriously addressed. They're people my grandpa used to say "Can't get out of their own way."
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  2917. ***** - Except getting a Driver ID is only a "simple errand" IF YOU'VE ALREADY PASSED THE DRIVING TEST AND HAVE A CAR. I hate to break it to you but not everyone lives in a suburb and drive a vehicle. Millions of Americans, a lot of elderly people included, cannot afford a vehicle or cannot drive one (some elderly people are medically unfit to drive). If you've never had a driver ID you would need to: 1) Spend several hundred dollars (and several weeks) on a Driving Course, which you have to pass. 2) Then spend several hundred more dollars taking Driving Lessons from a driving instructor. 3) Then pass a Written Exam at the DMV. 4) Then pass a Driving Exam at the DMV. All this takes time and money. On top of all this: 5) If you're not going to be driving WTF would be the point of going through all this? Just to have a license you'll only use once every 2-4 years to vote and not really use for anything else? "Democrats take a very paternalistic view of this and yes, it is quite condescending to black people.  They are basically assuming that if ANY demographic in the country can't be bothered to get a proper ID card" Complete bullshit. Has nothing to do with paternalism and everything to do with verifiable fact. It's a FACT that poor minorities, particularly poor minorities in urban areas, are more likely to not own a vehicle and thus not have need for a driver's license. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-voter-id-law-would-exclude-up-to-700000-young-minorities/ It is funny to watch conservatives suddenly pretend to care about minorities, though. The people the GOP claims are a bunch of lazy people who "want free stuff" (a frequent claim they make) or criminals destroying the country. "And TYT is making this about race, when it is actually about socio-economic status" The two issues often overlap. They're not always separate issues. "More white people live in rural, trailer-park type poverty, while more black people live in urban, inner-city type poverty." I don't know about that but I do know that poor whites are more likely to drive and have govt-issue licenses than poor minorities. More poor whites own a car per capita than poor blacks and Hispanics. "You go out of your way to make it sound like getting an ID is such a difficult or unreasonable inconvenience" IT IS difficult and unreasonable for millions of people, and it's unnecessary. None of this should be necessary exercise your constitutional rights. Aside from that it's unnecessary because: 1) Vote fraud is not a big problem. There have been less than 50 cases since 1990. In the process of trying to stop the dozen or so cases that occur in an election you prevent millions of lawful voters from voting. That's like dropping a 2,000-lb bunker-buster JDAM bomb on your house in order to kill 3 ants. 2) It's not needed to catch voter fraud: http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/11/13236464-new-database-of-us-voter-fraud-finds-no-evidence-that-photo-id-laws-are-needed?lite 3) If this is really about catching fraud then why would you only accept CERTAIN forms of ID? Why not do like Canada and have people sign an affidavit swearing they are who they claim they are? That's because it's not about catching fraud. it's about lowering the number of Democratic voters at the polls. As parts of the GOP have admitted: https://www.google.com/#q=gop+voter+id+minorities It's no coincidence the main people pushing for this also are behind things like gerrymandering "blue" districts, sending robocalls to heavily Democratic and minority communities to give them incorrect voting dates, trying to stop early voting in heavily Democratic areas, etc.
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  2918. ***** -  Actually, no. While I primarily spoke about driver's licenses the same goes for most of the forms of ID (which are only a few) the GOP is willing to accept. They tend to be the types poor people are less likely to have. If you had read the damn article: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-voter-id-law-would-exclude-up-to-700000-young-minorities/ "Point out where I stepped up on my soapbox and went on a monologue defending black people??" Wha? Where did I say you did? "I merely intimated that it is an insulting notion when people presume "...and the demographic least likely to have any form of photo identification??" That argument makes no sense. How is it "insulting" if it's a FACT that most black people themselves recognize? http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-voter-id-law-would-exclude-up-to-700000-young-minorities/ That's like saying it's "insulting" to say that minorities are more likely to be poor. How is that insulting? It's an economic FACT. "I think that such a patronizing, paternalistic attitude is racist in itself" Again, that's nonsensical since acknowledging a socioeconomic fact is neither patronizing, paternalistic nor racist. Your argument is like saying it's "racist, paternalistic and patronizing" to state that Asian-Americans are significantly more likely to be 2nd or 3rd generation Americans compared to white Americans. That's why I mocked your "concern" because it's nothing more than a cover to ignore the fact that it's indeed true that minorities are more likely to be poor and thus lack some of those forms of ID. By screaming "Dat's racist!" it's a ploy to change the subject from the fact it's indeed true and hurting minorities - oddly in the form of pretending to care whilst simultaneously supporting things that hurt the very people you claim to be so offended on the behalf of. It's like demanding a 10 year old bench press 200 lbs, then saying "Oh you're just being patronizing!" when someone else points out how that's unfair.
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  2919. ***** - "As if simply getting a photo ID" That's where your argument falls apart. Getting these ID is not "simple" for many people. You also conveniently IGNORED what I pointed out earlier: If the point is to catch voter fraud why not ask for ID that is more reliable than photo ID? Like a Social Security card? Why only accept a form of ID many people cannot reasonably obtain? Photo ID is not needed to stop voter fraud. So what's the rationale for it? "And I stand by my hypothesis" Your hypothesis is not factual. It doesn't matter what your hypothesis is if it's WRONG. Facts > Your hypothesis Don't be a factual relativist. "they live much closer to the downtown areas in which such government buildings are located" Living near a govt building does not make it easier to get an ID. You can only get a govt photo ID if you qualify for the service the ID is meant for. They don't just hand out photo IDs if you're not on the program. If you've never passed the Driving Exam they won't give you a free driver's license. Deal with reality please. "and your biggest obstacle/inconvenience is obtaining a valid photo ID... let's just say you got it good" By that "logic" the Jim Crow Era issues with voting wasn't actually much of a problem since all they were doing is requiring that you have certain ID or pay a certain amount of money in order to vote (which literally that's what it boiled down to)...eyeroll Think about what you say before typing. Then explain WHY a photo ID is necessary to vote.
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  2920. ***** - "at least not for those who WANT to vote, it's a minor inconvenience" Except it's far more than a minor inconvenience. For many people they have no means to get one: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-voter-id-law-would-exclude-up-to-700000-young-minorities/ That crushes your argument right there. You also keep dodging the question: 1) If you're supposedly concerned about Voter Fraud why wouldn't you want a Social Security card over a photo ID? Photo IDs are easier to fake. 2) What is the point of voter ID laws? They're not needed to stop fraud. You dodge questions better than a seasoned politician. "has said he would offer the photo ID's at zero cost" You can only get one for free IF YOU'VE ALREADY PASSED THE DMV DRIVING EXAM OR YOU'RE ALREADY ON THE GOVT PROGRAM THAT OFFERS THE ID. Many people are not. You keep conveniently skipping over that fact. Can you read? "And of course there is no mention or concern for all the poor white folks in trailer parks" Yes there is. Now I know you're not paying attention. These Voter ID laws would also affect millions of poor and elderly white people: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/07/south-carolina-voter-id-law_n_1080549.html "is significantly more difficult than it is for their inner-city counterparts" Again, according to whom? It's more difficult for poor minorities on average than poor trailer park whites: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-voter-id-law-would-exclude-up-to-700000-young-minorities/ I have documented facts to prove what I'm saying. So far you have no evidence to back up anything you've said.
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  2921. ***** - "So you really mean to tell me that naturalized American citizens are legally unable (or forbidden) to acquire a photo ID and/or driver's license??" YES! How the hell would an elderly person who can't drive get a photo ID? "I don't even need to click the link" Refusing to look at facts and evidence doesn't make them go away. Thanks for forfeiting the argument. If you have to ignore reality and facts that shows what you're saying is incorrect. "it is a biased, BS article" So prove it. Prove that it's incorrect. Prove the documented facts are "BS". "Any American citizen -- no not illegal immigrants, legal citizens/immigrants -- can get an official ID if they want to" No some can't: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-voter-id-law-would-exclude-up-to-700000-young-minorities/ "Social Security cards don't have pictures on them" And? Social Security cards are harder to fake than photo ID cards. Photo ID cards can be forged. So, again, why do is photo ID necessary for voting and how would it stop voter fraud? How would photo ID prevent voter fraud better than Social Security cards. "And you have dodged my assertion that poor, rural whites (colloquially known as "trailer-trash") are at a even bigger disadvantage" No I didn't. I directly addressed it and said your assertion is simply WRONG: "Again, according to whom? It's more difficult for poor minorities on average than poor trailer park whites: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-voter-id-law-would-exclude-up-to-700000-young-minorities/" --A86 Can you read? You never addressed my rebuttal to your comment about poor whites. "As I already stated... the is a socio-economic issue" Partially, yes. It's mostly an issue of them wanting to lower the number of Democratic voters. "and not racial" False. It's partly racial: https://www.google.com/#q=voter+ID+laws+minorities Voter ID advocates have supported other policies that specifically prevent minorities from voting. That's because minorities tend to vote Democratic. "You probably would presume I am a Republican, but I actually hate the GOP... I am a proud independent that wants to see a more fair parliamentary system implemented" Then stop pushing for things that keeps millions of Americans from being able to legally vote. if you just absolutely insist that we need more Voter ID laws then why not have a system like Canada where you'll accept any form of ID, photo or not, and affidavits swearing you are who you claim to be. Canada does this and they don't have a voter fraud problem. The fact you cannot rationally or factually support your argument signals to me you have ulterior motives. Anyone on the up and up would not have to ignore facts or rely on hypotheses that contradict reality. Since Voter Fraud is already nearly nonexistent what's the need for additional laws? We already have sufficient laws to catch fraud.
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  2922. ***** - "You still don't get it. Have you ever even seen a state-issued photo ID??  Just an ID card, not a driver's license" What photo ID card does the state issue other than driver's licenses and student IDs? "How do you think vision-impaired/legally-blind people" NEWSFLASH: Most voters aren't hearing or visually impaired. "or elderly people for that matter, buy a case of beer or a bottle of vodka?" They only ask you for ID at a liquor store IF YOU LOOK UNDER A CERTAIN AGE. Who asks elderly people for ID to buy liquor? They only card you if you appear to be possibly under 21. The elderly are clearly of age. You're letting me know you're either very young or don't actually buy liquor. "Legal ID is required for MANY civil services, various business licenses" Few services require photo ID-only. Most places will accept a student ID or Social Security card. "so she has a state ID card as opposed to a driver's license" What is the specific state photo ID she has and how can other people obtain this same exact type of photo ID? "In any case, I've already gone into great detail why the law isn't racist anyhow." The problem is you were incorrect. Your explanation doesn't matter if it was wrong. Do you not get that? Is that too difficult a concept for you to comprehend? Theories that are wrong are worthless. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-voter-id-law-would-exclude-up-to-700000-young-minorities/ http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/03/how-voter-id-laws-are-being-used-to-disenfranchise-minorities-and-the-poor/254572/ You had no rebuttal for this. Your only response was to refuse to read and claim you somehow know it's "biased and BS" while not providing any evidence this is the case.
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  2925. ***** - "Many people begin to lose their sight at an early age.  They can see enough to function, but they cannot drive... this is only an example of people who -- without the need/requiring of a driver's test -- can easily obtain a state-sanctioned photo ID." And how would people with FUNCTIONING SIGHT get a state-sanctioned photo ID? Hmm? "And you would be surprised the ID-checking policies at various liquor stores and restaurants" The only reason they check ID at a liquor store is to make sure you're of age to drink. If you're obviously of age they don't card you. Why would they card you at a restaurant either unless you're trying to drink and aren't discernibly over 21? "That is beside the point" No, that IS the point. You're insisting that all these people get a photo ID that isn't a driver's license. So: 1) How do they get it? 2) What is the point of them getting it? Why should a photo ID be necessary? 3) What makes a photo ID more reliable than a Social Security number? You're not going to just sidestep and gloss over this central issue. "ID's are requires for ALL KINDS of bureaucratic processes." PHOTO IDs? Such as what processes and who says these people all partake in those processes?  "Some citizens have a genetic disability, or sustained a serious injury and/or amputation" And none of this is relevant to people who have no disability but are simply poor and don't drive and cannot afford a car and thus don't have a photo ID. So what photo ID can they get? "20-30+ year old people get carded all the time" Where outside of a liquor store? "Stop being a drama queen" Stop being a politician and answer the damn question: 1) What is the purpose of having a photo ID only to vote? 2) Where are people supposed to get all these free IDs if they don't drive and have never passed a driver's exam? 3) Why would a photo ID be more reliable than a Social Security number? 4) According to whom does having a photo ID make voter fraud easier to catch and where are all these examples of fraud occurring when they're not upheld? 5) If you're so concerned about fraud then why not have a system like Canada where they accept any ID (photo or not) or sign an affidavit if they don't have an ID? "YOU DON'T NEED TO DRIVE TO get a state-sanctioned ID card" Yet you haven't provided a single example of a state-sanctioned photo ID card you can get that isn't a driver's license unless you're disabled, blind or deaf.
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  2927. ***** - "i have a life" So, in other words you can't back up anything you said. Thanks for admitting it. If what you support is so necessary and voter fraud is such a huge problem it should be no problem for you to easily prove it. You've had 3 days. WTF are you waiting for? "sorry i don't sit on the computer all day" Yet you DO have time to sit there and compose a 70-line response. If you had time to do that you had time to back up your claims with evidence and answer my question. Did you give your parents and teachers those same kinds of BS excuses growing up? "An ID that can be used -- much like a license -- to gain entry into nightclubs, buy alcohol, sign up for various state programs" Except the only one of those that wants photo ID specifically is a nightclub. No one cards you for liquor past the age of 30 and photo ID is not needed to be on state programs or welfare. They ask for SOCIAL SECURITY cards. Not photo ID. You're showing you have no experience with these programs. "That right there is all i need to know about you. Sorry if that sounds patronizing" It's silly because all you've done is prove that you have no idea what the hell you're talking about. State programs don't require for photo ID to get on their programs. "out to be this totally absurd inconvenience" You admitted it is. You admitted you can't get one unless you're impaired. So how do you get an ID that is not a driver's license unless you're crippled or disabled?  "You even said that SS cards were harder to duplicate" Stealing SSNs can be tracked. You can't track a photo. Many people don't look identical to their photos. People's physical appearances change over time. You can't prove I'm not the man in the picture unless it's something radical like the guy in the pic is black and I'm white. Your SSN does not change. Again, you have no clue what you're talking about and it's obvious to anyone reading our response. "In contrast, a state-issued ID (driver's license or not) has all kinds of counterfeiting safeguards" So do non-photo IDs like the Social Security card. They got this crazy counterfeiting safeguard called the Social Security Administration and the FBI.... So, again, what is the necessity of photo ID? "I am guessing you are young... possibly even a teenager" I would say that about you since you think liquor stores ask old people for a driver's license to buy liquor. I hate to tell you kid but they only do that to people who look under 21 like you. "Stop making excuses for lazy people!!!" We could also have people do a backflip before we allow them to vote. What's wrong with that? Stop being lazy!!!! eyeroll What's the necessity of either? There's no more need for voter ID laws than there are to require people to do a backflip to vote. "Requiring ID can only help curb voter fraud" Except it doesn't: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/opinion/the-dishonesty-of-voter-id-laws.html?_r=0 http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/11/13236464-new-database-of-us-voter-fraud-finds-no-evidence-that-photo-id-laws-are-needed?lite "which DOES happen" Voter Fraud is rarer than being struck by lightning or attacked by a shark: http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/mar/02/aclu-florida/shark-attacks-are-more-common-voter-fraud-florida/ http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/story?id=17213376 http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/voter-id-laws-charts-maps
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  2928. ***** - "Thus the burden of proof is on you" No, the burden of proof is on you. You have no evidence that voter fraud is a big problem or that requiring photo ID is necessary. And people like you are exactly why Voter ID laws are being struck down. You have literally no argument to back up your position. "... why would requiring a state-issued ID card cause people to avoid" Who said anything about avoiding? If you can't get a photo ID they won't let you in to vote. That's not avoiding - THAT'S NOT BEING ALLOWED. "We are not talking about rocket f*cking science.  A quick trip to a state bureaucratic department and BOOM" Quick, what's the name of the state-issued photo ID that is not a driver's license that they give to non-disabled young poor people? What card do they give you like boom? "I would bet anything you are 20ish" I thought you said you have a life and don't have time to provide evidence to back up anything you said. If you have time to sit here and try to guess what I look like and come up with Ad Hominems then you have time to present evidence. Since you have time to compose 70-line responses you have time to answer these questions: 1) How do they get it? 2) What is the point of them getting it? Why should a photo ID be necessary? 3) What makes a photo ID more reliable than a Social Security number? 4) According to whom does having a photo ID make voter fraud easier to catch and where are all these examples of fraud occurring when they're not upheld? 5) If you're so concerned about fraud then why not have a system like Canada where they accept any ID (photo or not) or sign an affidavit if they don't have an ID?
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  2932. ***** - "I have no vested interested in which way state councils vote" Cop-out. You claimed that Voter ID laws are necessary but admitted you have no idea what non-driver's license photo ID these people can get and that it's only your opinion there's probably another one out there. You killed your own argument. You've had several days and have posted over 500 lines of response but were never able to answer a single one of these questions: 1) How do they get it? 2) What is the point of them getting it? Why should a photo ID be necessary? 3) What makes a photo ID more reliable than a Social Security number? 4) According to whom does having a photo ID make voter fraud easier to catch and where are all these examples of fraud occurring when they're not upheld? 5) If you're so concerned about fraud then why not have a system like Canada where they accept any ID (photo or not) or sign an affidavit if they don't have an ID? In contrast I have documented proof from federal and independent studies that Voter ID laws would make it nearly impossible for millions of Americans to vote. Including the elderly: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-voter-id-law-would-exclude-up-to-700000-young-minorities/ Documented Fats > Personal Opinion "Ah yes, the law is racist because only black people could possibly be lazy enough" The law is racist because it intentionally largely targets minority communities and many of these minorities have no means to get the type of ID being demanded. Hence why these laws are being struck down across the nation: https://www.google.com/#q=voter+id+laws+struck+down There's no rational or legal justification for Voter ID laws. They're unnecessary and serve as nothing more than a way to keep Democrats away from the voting booth.
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  2943. Skyler Thomas - So many inaccuracies and bullshit. "emphasize or accept the existence of racial dissimilarities in IQ, temperament, cognitive ability, environmental and psychological stimuli and crime" No such thing as racial temperament and WTF are "environmental and psychological stimuli"? Did they prove blacks and whites react differently psychologically?  To date there is no evidence that IQ racial. For one thing there are no genetic races among humans. 90% of genetic differences in humans are within continents. Secondly, the genetic aspects of DNA occur with family heritability. Not ethnic heritability. Not to mention IQ averages for different groups change drastically over time. In the 1940s the white American IQ average would be in the mid-80s on a modern IQ test. You're taking a few correlations and jumping to the unsupported conclusion that the correlation is a causation. You're assuming their IQ is what it is BECAUSE they're black/white/whatever and not considering any number of other factors. Crime is related to unemployment and poverty rates. You'll find high crime in low-income white areas with high unemployment and low crime in middle-class black areas with low unemployment. Care to guess why? "It is perfectly okay for us to say different breeds of dog vary in characteristics" Dog breeds were artificially created by humans engaging in eugenics and inbreeding programs to breed certain features in dogs. Dogs didn't evolve naturally to pull sleds. "then logically human-beings -- who were separated for more than 200,000 years" Also complete horseshit. 1) The majority of non-Africans descend from populations who split off from Northeast Africans 40,000-80,000 years ago. Not 200,000. 2) No group of humans on Earth has had a private evolution in isolation. Humans have constantly moved about the planet, intermixed and interbred with surrounding populations and re-migrated to and from areas. 3) Genetic changes happen primarily at a local level. Not a continental level. Allele and SNP changes happen clinally, not as large enclaves. The vast majority of human differences at a genetic level would be within local populations, not between continents. And that's exactly how human genetic differences exist in real life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)#Fixation_index A French man and a Russian man will both be genetically more similar to a random Ethiopian man than either is to each other. An East African will be more physically similar overall to Middle Easterner (head shape, cranium size, limb ratio) than they will to a West African. http://www.brown.uk.com/brownlibrary/INTEL2.htm Not only do you know nothing about Biology and Genetics you also know nothing about History and Anthropology. It's always funny to watch racialists pretend to understand science. It's almost cute. Like watching an 8 year old pretend to understand Quantum Mechanics. 
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  2944. Skyler Thomas - "Well that must mean they're incorrect" Not necessarily, but that makes them more likely to be incorrect. Scientific consensus is very important. Not only that, but the scientific consensus that disagrees with them consistently has much more empirical evidence to back up its views that contradict theirs. So, people like Jensen, Rushton, etc. are equivalent to global warming-deniers among scientists. "conclude and report racial dissimilarities rather than sweaping them under the rug and suggesting more socialism" What in the living fuck are you talking about? What scientific organizations are suggesting "socialism" and what does socialism have to do with genetics?  "conclude and report racial dissimilarities" Straw Man. No scientists are claiming that there are no differences between human groups. The scientific consensus is that these groups mostly don't correspond to what people like Jensen, Rushton et. al would call a "race". There are few traits shared among all "white people" or "black people" other than skin color. "Just recently there was an article in the Scientific American discussing whether to ban all study into differences in genetics and behavior between different human groups" What was this article? Link it. "as all the results were showing very large differences in IQ, temperament, etc" Link this article. "Undoubedtly the same sort of people resonsible for the human genome project that you Antis use as your foreground for perpetuating multiculturalism and mongrelization" Typical. When you can't dispute the science "Race Realists" have to spin off into fairytale land with wild, nonsensical tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.  If "race" is so real then why is science able to consistently debunk the majority of racialist claims? Is the data just being made up? And what does the science have to do with "multiculturalism"? "mongerlization" You're showing you know nothing about science. All human groups are "mongerlized". No such thing as a "pure" human population. "That claim, of course, has been an increasingly common response to the hereditarian argument about IQ since at least the publication of The Bell Curve, and goes back as far as Franz Boas" The non-reality of race is based on far more than the fact IQ mostly seems to be non-genetic. A fact that was proven years ago: http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/siegle/research/correlation/intelligence.pdf http://www.unc.edu/~nielsen/soci850/odocs/apa_01.htm "The Bell Curve" 1) I didn't realize "The Bell Curve" was unquestionable. The "Bell Curve" is a single theory that contains many errors which have been explained and refuted to hell and back over the past 20 years. 2) And theories like Murray and Herrnstein's go back before "The Bell Curve". Some of them date back to the 1930s with Charles Spearman. 3) Franz Boas was not a psychologist. His theories have little to do with IQ. 4) "Hereditarian" does not mean "racial" and "genetic" does not mean "immutable". "And, I am sorry to say, some scientists have contributed to this false belief" Except it's not a "false belief". It's a theory mostly consistently demonstrated by existing empirical data and evidence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_humans) "And what those "scientitsts" don't say, of course, is that there is only a fraction of a per cent difference between the genome for White people and that for chimpanzees" You don't know what you're talking about. There's a 2-3% difference between the genome of humans and chimps. Much more than a fraction of 1 per cent. "But that tiny fraction of the mammalian genome that specifies whether the hair and skin and bone and other tissues will become a White person or a rat or a Negro" Actually, there is a larger fraction of difference between a white person and a "Negro" than there is between a white person and another white person. Your argument is a non-starter because you assume white people have more in common genetically to other white people than they do to black people. They don't. "I believe that Blacks are "dumb", that the innate abilities involved in building and maintaining a civilization. That is, I believe that Whites are, on average, smarter and more creative than Blacks" As demonstrated Ad Nauseum earlier your belief is wrong. I don't care about beliefs, I care about facts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_africa "(and virtually all other sub-species)" There are no extant Human subspecies. "Any government official or biology teacher, who contradicts this dogma will be hounded by his more orthodox colleagues" Criticism is not "hounding". Academia and science is a place to express facts, not personal opinions. Opinions can be criticized scientifically, they're not sacrosanct.  "So who's crazy: I or all of those folks in the government, the schools, and the media?" So far the scientific evidence appears that it's just you. You have little evidence to back up your beliefs. When you fail to back up your beliefs you resort to baseless conspiracy theories. That's a sign of an unsound mind. "Geographical location and migration have nothing to do with race or biological traits" False. Migration of people of differing genomes is what causes biological traits. Human genes and alleles change over time by tiny changes and errors in recombination and formation of traits and proteins. This occurs in local populations and changes clinally. Not at large continental group levels. Learn Science.  "But that's preciesely what race is; shared genes." No it isn't. By that definition every individual family is a separate "race". You don't even know what "Race" means. Pathetic. A "race" is a self-homogeneous, morphologically distinct group with a private, distinct evolution and a distinctive genome. This doesn't exist at a continental level in humans. All Europeans don't belong to a particular morphology or genome. Ditto with Africans and Asians (who are even more genetically and morphologically diverse than Europeans). The only thing continental groups tend to share is certain phenotypical features like skin color or certain hair textures. "Environmental adaption, created seperate sub-species (Races), seperate gene-pools which have been preserved overtime" Complete hogwash. See Haplogroups: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroups "According to Tang and Zhivotovksi, as it turns out, that when we actually measure, humans mostly fall about 6 neat statistical groups which just happen to corelate to 99.86 per cent what we've always called race" Citation needed. "An education can help someone reach his or her mental IQ capability, not surpass it. Black IQ can never reach that of Whites" False. The black American IQ has already caught up with the average of some Eastern European countries. I presume you view Eastern Europeans as "white people". The IQ of black native-born citizens of Western European countries is higher than the average of some Eastern European ("white") countries. "Modern science overwhelmingly supports "racism". " False: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification) "It is an article of passionate faith among 'politically correct' biologists and anthropologists that brain size has no connection with intelligence" It does indeed have some correlation with intelligence. However: 1) The correlation is relatively small, different for different demographics, and not demonstrated at a level larger than family-level. Brain size doesn't explain the majority of IQ differences.  2) So-called "races" don't share a brain size. For example: the brain size of the average black American is closer to the brain size of the average white American than either is to the average East African: http://www.brown.uk.com/brownlibrary/INTEL2.htm It appears to be an article of faith, however, among so-called "Race Realists" that any difference between two people or populations must ultimately be genetic and immutable, and that any difference automatically equals "Race exists and caused it!"
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  2945. Skyler Thomas - 1) I'm not African. Your sophomoric insults reveal your true agenda and bigotry. 2) ahem "Craig Venter?" Venter does not claim there is a genetic "white race" or "black race": http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14568-watson-vs-venter-the-loser-is-racebased-medicine.html#.Uye8x61dUm8 ""Race-based medicine doesn't have any real basis in science," he told New Scientist. "You can look at somebody's skin colour, but it doesn't necessarily tell you much about the rest of their genome or how they'll respond to drugs or which drugs they'll respond to." --Craig Venter "Henry Harpending" Ah, you found 1 academic who does think it exists. You can also find 1 academic who thinks aliens secretly control the US government. I said CONSENSUS, can you read? You found 1 academic who shares similar views to you. I can list thousands who claim they're full of shit: http://www.livinganthropologically.com/2012/03/01/harpending-tilting-against-race/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification) "According to a paper entitled "Towards A Comprehensive Structural Variation Map of An Individual, Human Genome" by A.W. Pang and J.R. McDonald, racial similarity is down at 98.4%, compared to male and female similarity at 99.7 to 99.9%." We've already been through this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewontin%27s_Fallacy "Witherspoon et al. conclude that, "Since an individual's geographic ancestry can often be inferred from his or her genetic makeup, knowledge of one's population of origin should allow some inferences about individual genotypes. To the extent that phenotypically important genetic variation resembles the variation studied here, we may extrapolate from genotypic to phenotypic patterns. [...] However, the typical frequencies of alleles responsible for common complex diseases remain unknown. The fact that, given enough genetic data, individuals can be correctly assigned to their populations of origin is compatible with the observation that most human genetic variation is found within populations, not between them. It is also compatible with our finding that, even when the most distinct populations are considered and hundreds of loci are used, individuals are frequently more similar to members of other populations than to members of their own population. Thus, caution should be used when using geographic or genetic ancestry to make inferences about individual phenotypes",and warn that, "A final complication arises when racial classifications are used as proxies for geographic ancestry. Although many concepts of race are correlated with geographic ancestry, the two are not interchangeable, and relying on racial classifications will reduce predictive power still further."
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  2992. Terrance Van Liew - I said Capitalism, not Democracy. Also, I'm not arguing in favor of Anomie. I'm saying that rules don't inherently needs rulers and rules and organization doesn't automatically mean "central planning". You can have a non-capitalist system of distribution without central planning. See Parecon, Market Socialism, Gift Economy, Peer-to-Peer Economy, etc. Socialism is designed to overcome the central "contradictions" of Capitalism that eventually cause Capitalism to become self-destructive. Namely, Capitalism is a system that is about two types of people (Buyers and Sellers) trying to con the other. Sellers try to make the maximum amount of money possible by paying other people to produce for you for asking little money as possible, then charge Buyers for the products as much as humanly possible and give the workers as little compensation as you can; Buyers are trying to put in as little labor as possible in exchange for as much salary/income as possible, then buy for as low as price as feasible. That, and Capitalism inherently creates rulers because it's about a small number of people buying up public land, causing the landless/propertyless majority to have to work for the small owning class in exchange for less than the full value of what they produce (if they were paid the full value, no profit would be made). Since it's based on Competition, the end goal of all owners is to WIN by eliminating competition. Eventually, competing businesses are run out of business or absorbed until the dominant business becomes a Monopoly, and the economy becomes dominated by monopolies which pay as little as possible (this concentrating wealth and letting it stagnate). That's "winning" in the business world, but such a situation cause a Depression and social order falls apart. That's the self-destructive cycle Socialism was tailored to fix.
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  3067. whyamimrpink78 - In your first response you disagreed with me but said largely the same thing. Some jobs indeed can't measure productivity. Except the ones that you can't tend to be higher skilled jobs that involve intellectual labor, not lower skilled. You can easily measure output from ditch diggers and trashmen and construction workers. Harder to measure output of bureaucrats or many white-collar jobs where you're providing a service instead of producing a good. How do you measure output of call center workers other than number of calls taken per hour? Even that's misleading because you can take a lot of calls yet do a terrible job at most of them than someone who takes less calls per hour but gets them almost all solved properly. When I worked in a call center they cared about volume, not so much about quality of how often you helped solve the problem without causing the customer to call back. I never said the government should set wages. If you watch the video, Kyle discussed how the government can enforce the Equal Pay Act and Lily Ledbetter. It's not the government setting eages, it's the government enforcing *wages that were supposed to be paid in the first place*, or demanding businesses account for why it pays employees different on no other basis than seemingly gender or race when employees of different genders or races on the same jobs at the same level have unequal wages despite having the same output. When all non-discriminatory factors are taken into account and there is still a pay gap between employees of equal productivity, businesses need to account why this is happening. Going elsewhere wouldn't help, because: 1) A woman would have to know what her coworkers are being paid to know she's being discriminated against. Your coworkers don't typically discuss their salaries openly and your job won't tell you what your coworkers are paid. 2) She'd need to see everyone the productivity output and work stats to confirm hers is lower due to discrimination. 3) The majority of businesses pay people different for the same job based on race, gender and age. They tend to pay people of their sex and race the highest wages (and employers are very disproportionately white males). When most people are doing the same thing changing jobs won't help.
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  3068. whyamimrpink78 - It is true. There is a racial pay gap and an age pay gap as well as a gender pay gap. It's not that difficult to determine, *that's how we know a pay gap even exists in the first place*. If you couldn't figure what any given person should be paid then business owners themselves wouldn't be able to set wages in the first place. You can determine what a person's salary should be by comparing their wages against people in the same job and company which have similar or the same output and hours. No 2 employees have the exact same output, but businesses don't differentiate to that degree generally, otherwise every single employee would have a different wage. Most companies don't pay on commission, most set a standard rate for the same job which your attendance and hours worked can add to or subtract from. Many businesses don't even allow starting salary negotiation. It's not technically necessary to know the exact productivity to determine if someone is being less than they're owed because most salaries are supposed to be the same for the same job at the same company. But an unexplainable gap appears often for minorities and women. "That's just noise" 1) The average gender pay gap is 4-10%. it's only a 2-3% gap for certain professional jobs for women without children. 2) Would you be willing to take a 4-10% pay cut, or even a 2-3% pay cut for no good reason? No, you'd raise hell of that happened to you personally. I'm sorry, but your statement was assholish right there. No one wants to be shorted on wages for no apparent or explained reason. Even if it's a small amount. We're supposed to just tell women "Well, you get paid 2-3% less for the same jobs as your male peers for no good reason. But that's a small amount, just noise. Get over it."?
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  3088. Sam M - Wrong. According to the FBI guys do most of the hitting. Women only hit mote in cases where one party didn't hit back. Evidently you don't even understand these statistics you read. And yes, outside of prison is significant BECAUSE MOST MEN DON'T GO TO PRISON*. Per capita women are more likely to be raped because women have a higher lifetime incidence rate. 1 in 5 women are victims of a rape or sexual assault (including uncompleted ones) at some point in their life compared to 1 in 13 or 1 in 17 men (depends on how many men are reporting their rapes or assaults). Women earn less *even for the same jobs with equal working hours. Differences in hours worked only account for 20% of the pay gap. 40% of the pay gap remains unexplained by all non-discriminatory factors combined. Women tend to do most of the child-rearing because many people still hold outdated traditionalist views that taking care of kids and household is "women's work", so many career women end up taking more time off because husbands tend to push most of the housework off on the wife. Studies show that most husbands still expect their wife to do most of the cooking and cleaning even if she works more hours than him and even when the wife has a higher salary than the husband or has a higher education than the husband. And yes, upward mobility us very traceable. That's how we kniw there's less of it now for most Americans than there was in the 1970s and 1980s. Studies show women have a harder time climbing the ladder in workplaces even when equally skilled because many employers perceive women as less competent or perceive female bosses negatively as opposed to male bosses.
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  3099. ***** - "those are fake statistics" According to whom? These statistics are from national crime surveys: https://www.ncjrs.gov/app/abstractdb/AbstractDBDetails.aspx?id=243182 http://oregonsatf.org/resources/docs/False_Allegations.pdf "yet they believe that a huge percentage of men are capable of raping a woman but a very small percentage of women are capable of doing an equally horrible crime" 1) That is not the position of all feminists. Feminists are not a monolith. Neither are MRAs. 2) Technically, everyone has the capacity to be a rapist. Most people never live up to that capacity because of self-control and morality/ethics/religion/scruples. 3) Most rapes are committed by a relatively small group of repeat offenders. Even though the total number of rapes is horrific it's mostly being done by a fairly small group of offenders. Not single offenses by a new person each time. "but a very small percentage of women are capable of doing an equally horrible crime." Female-on-male rapes are largely underreported. Partially due to social stigma and double standards, partially due to law enforcement taking these incidents less seriously on average. There are feminists who talk about this fact and those who don't. "then you have the MRA who is the only one dealing with the rape issue" That's false. There are many MRAs who spend most of their time claiming Feminists are just making shit up or talking about false rape accusations and not dealing with real rapes that make up the overwhelming majority of allegations. Or only talking about rapes where males are victims. Also, you don't really hear about MRAs setting up shelters for male abuse/rape/incest victims or organizations to help these men. Most of them just complain about it on the Internet. Feminists at least get active. "they are the people saying men and women are equal" I know many MRAs who openly say men and women are not equal. Just like there are many Feminists who don't care about non-female victims. Then you have MRAs like you mentioned just like you have Feminists who spend plenty of time talking about how social double standards are ironically sexist against both men and women.
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  3149. Patrick McGinnes - "Furthermore Jesus has not even been demonstrated to be a historical figure" No offense but that's not true: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus The vast majority of historians believe he was a real person or based on one or several real people at the time with some myths from earlier stories attached onto his life posthumously. Whether he ever performed any "miracles" or up for debate and mostly a matter of faith. The historians who believe Jesus never existed are comparable to the number of scientists who don't believe in Evolution or who don't believe in human-caused Global Warming. It's annoying that a lot of the so-called "New Atheists" have latched onto this minority "Jesus was totally made up in every way" position. It's guaranteeing that they're going to relegate themselves to being a fringe group by ascribing to fringe views. "that Christianity seems to have borrowed from" Of course. And Hinduism also borrowed from earlier myths as well.  "If the Bible was the divinely inspired book of absolute truth" I never argued it was. You're arguing against a position I never ascribed to. Because the Bible is partially accurate or partly historical does not mean I'm arguing it ALL is. It's not an All-or-Nothing matter.  That's the problem with religious debates these days. You have religious Fundies on one side arguing that every last jot and tittle (to borrow a Biblical turn of phrase) in the Bible is true and so-called "New Atheists" arguing that every last word of it is false, then pressuring everyone else to choose one of these two sides. It's a false dilemma. I treat the Bible just like I treat other ancient and medieval books: a mixture of truth, intentional exaggeration, propaganda, parables and myth meant to convey moral or "spiritual" lessons, and unintentional confusion of facts due to multiple authors writing accounts long after the event. That's pretty typical of books predating the Scientific Revolution. It wasn't until the Enlightenment Age that this concept of 100% historical non-fiction history books became commonplace. The Bible, like most books from its time, is not comparable to a modern science or history textbook like religious conservatives and literalists argue, or akin to a comic book like some anti-religious people argue. It's more comparable to American Tall Tales or the writings of Homer (Ex: The Iliad is a mixture of fact, history and obvious myth and exaggeration).
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  3177. MasterC2121 - "Sorry but the democrat party has been destroying the African American community for 20 years" Do tell how they are. Offering them the same programs they offer everyone else? Especially since black Americans are far better off overall today than they were in 1963. "Yes a lot of African Americans are lazy" And you quantify this how? Quote some sources for this, please. "dependent on government etc" So are white Republicans. The majority of white people on welfare are Red State Republican voters. That was made public during Romney's "47%" comment gaffe. It seems you have the same mindset he does. Red States in general tend to be welfare states compared to Blue States - red states generally take more they give back. Republicans also seem to have no problem with Big Business and bankers being dependent on govt (taxpayer) funds. "need to know that sometimes the ones saying the things that they  don't like to hear are sometimes the ones trying to help them" Do tell us about all the things the Republican Party has done to help African-Americans post-1965. Dismantling the Voting Rights Act? The War on Drugs? Stop and Frisk? Kicking millions of black voters off the voting rolls? Voter ID laws? Cutting funding for public schools and after-school activities? Cutting funding for urban renewal projects and urban schools? Ending busing programs? Ending reduced/free lunch programs for poor kids? Getting rid of Pell Grants which often help poor minorities go to college? Encouraging the selling of toxic, high-risk, high-interest ARM loans to black homeowners during the Bush Admin? Legislation to end Affirmative Action rather than modify it? Supreme Court voting to not allow DNA to free wrongly-convicted inmates (more than half of whom are black)? Funding jails in poor urban areas rather than schools? Cuts in unemployment and social programs? Reduction of loans to black-owned small businesses?  Republicans don't like hearing these things but sometimes the things we don't like to hear are the very things we NEED to hear and the people saying them are the ones trying to help us out. ;)
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  3179. MasterC2121 - "This creates the apathetic environment in the African American community that we see today. Where the government is your daddy and the idea of individual responsibility is frowned upon." Do tell how you know what the average African-American thinks and how you ascertained the average black person frowns upon the idea of personal responsibility? Especially given popular "black leaders" like Cornel West, Tavis Smiley, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Michael Eric Dyson, Juliane Malveaux, etc. harp on about taking personal responsibility quite frequently. Ever watch the Million Man March? Or listen to any of the State of the Black Union Addresses? Probably not.  "As for your red state hypothesis, it is complete rubbish wen we look at the data" False. It was easily proven years ago and remains just as true today: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/26/blog-posting/red-state-socialism-graphic-says-gop-leaning-state/ The vast majority of states that receive more in federal funds than they give back are Red States. The majority of white people on welfare vote Republican and live in poor parts of the South and Midwest: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fact-checking-romneys-47-percent-comment/ http://www.businessinsider.com/mitt-romney-47-percent-no-income-tax-map-red-republican-states-2012-9 http://reason.com/blog/2012/09/18/romneys-47-percent-line-is-a-common-gop "so looking at only a single election is meaningless" Uh, this has nothing to do with single elections. The South has been a Republican stronghold since the late 70s-mid 80s and has been a net drain on federal funds since the mid-60s. That Mississippi, for example, is a heavily Republican state wasn't determined by one election. It's been that way for DECADES and for decades has been a net drain on fed funds. "When we look at the top red welfare states" 1) Who determined they were the "top" ones? 2) We're talking about averages. Isolating a few outliers does not erase the AVERAGE. The average state that take more in federal funds is a strongly Republican state with majority Republican representatives and voters. "we see that they overwhelming elect democrat representatives" Source? "Red states like" 1) They've had Republican Representatives. Only Senators count now? What about their State Senators and State Representatives/Delegates? 2) Those are not the only red states on the list.  "As for things like affirmative action it actually discriminates in its effort to help minorities" Now I agree with you there. Which is why it needs to be reformed, but not done away with. However, AA mostly discriminates in favor of WHITE WOMEN. Not minorities. Perhaps the biggest irony of AA is that the biggest beneficiaries of Affirmative Action are still white (women). Getting rid of it wholesale rather than reforming it won't help anyone and will end up harming minorities. As flawed as AA is it's currently a law that does help reduce Hiring Discrimination to a degree. Though enforcing EEOC laws better would probably have more positive effect in reducing Hiring Discrimination and racial pay gaps than AA as it currently exists.
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  3180. MasterC2121 - "By giving single mothers government aid they are systematically driving the male out of the household" How?  1) Women can still receive govt aid if they are married or in a relationship. In fact, the 2nd largest group of welfare recipients in the US are poor families/married poor mothers. 2) Most single mothers were not married before they got pregnant. So how did the govt drive the men off? The parents were never really "together" to begin with. "As a result illegitimacy rates skyrocketed" Illegitimacy is NOT THE SAME THING as fatherlessness. Unless you're claiming the father is gone 100% of the time a child is born out of wedlock. The Out-of-Wedlock birth rate is not the same thing as the rate the father is gone. The black fatherlessness rate is about 52-54%. 73% is the percent of mothers not married when they have their first kid. 2 different things. Anyways, 1) The majority of black single parents are not on welfare. 2) The white out-of-wedlock rate is near 40% now, yet less than 20% of whites are on welfare. So how is welfare to blame for the out-of-wedlock rates?  3) Mississippi and Texas have some of the highest out-of-wedlock and single mother rates in the Union while also having stingy amounts of welfare. So decreasing welfare for poor people hasn't lowered the out-of-wedlock birth rate. Also, the birth rate among black mothers has been declining since 1970: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2009/02/the-math-on-black-out-of-wedlock-births/6738/ "Obama repealed the 1996 welfare reform requirement" Why do Republicans lie? You just repeated one of the same Republican lies that cost Mitt Romney the election. Obama did no such thing: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/07/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-barack-obamas-plan-abandons-tenet/ This is why you people keep losing the country. You just can't tell the truth.
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  3249. @cerebhouse1 - Really, dude? Every strand of Feminist are hypocrites, but MRAs are pure, unhypocritical and stand for no more or less than men's rights and equality? That's complete horseshit. There are tons of MRAs who complain and cry foul in any and every video that deals with female rape victims, automatically assume any guy accused of rape is innocent and accuse the female accuser of being a lying whore, claim there's no problem with sexism in the workplace (like how conservatives claim institutional racism doesn't exist), act like guys who knowingly have unprotected sex are victims when they pay child support, claim women suffer no problem or discrimination in general, etc. RadMRAs are every bit as despicable and annoying as RadFems and you sound like the former claiming every strand of Feminism is bad but MRAs are nothing but honorable heroes. RadMRAs are why almost every organization that helps men in real life (like the "Good Men Foundation") don't associate with the online MRM. Tons of Internet MRAs are more than content to whine, piss and moan about any unfairness related to men, real or perceived, but don't actually do shit for men. They don't put up money for men's shelters, male rape victims, male child molestation victims of female molesters, organize protest marches for change in the family court system, introduce bills to Congress to help men, etc. RadFems and RadMRAs are both shit, but I can say at least RadFems put their money where their mouth is instead of do nothing but whine online and not help perceived victims in the real world.
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  3314. sirellyn - "Just look at rent controls, gas price controls, heck even food price controls?" You haven't demonstrated that rent and gas price controls are "out of whack". You haven't shown how they're ALWAYS (your own words) harmful, too low or causing a shortage. "In all those cases insane shortages developed along with extensive black markets" We have little price controls on meds and yet a great percentage of Americans cannot afford the medications at current market price. The prices that sellers decide can sometimes itself price many potential consumers out of the market. A moderate price control has little effect on supply or on incentives: http://www.nber.org/digest/may05/w11114.html It's only when the price control is set TOO HIGH it becomes problematic. It's not like having any price control whatsoever automatically causes Soviet economic recession-style bread lines. "The only reason the free market "doesn't exist" is because it's been legislated out" 1) Much like "communism" the "free market" has never existed anywhere on a large-scale. To date it remains a utopian ideology. 2) The reason legislation exists that isn't "free market" is largely because voters called for these regulations. At times there was a "free market" closer to a national scale it lowered quality of goods and quality of life for many people and had many other pernicious effects. 3) The market naturally turns itself "un-free" because when some firms and companies win they seek to maintain their advantage. When you get ahead in a foot race would you hold back some so your competitors still have a chance to catch up? No. When companies get an advantage they attempt to corner a market and become monopolies, oligopolies, cartels, etc. and use Price Making to control and expand their share. Their motive is to eternally expand profit margins and minimize costs. If this means cheating customers and workers and distorting the market and putting up barriers to competitors, so be it. "A free market exists just as a clean street does" A "free market" is basically just a street with no rules or boundaries. Whether or not it will stay clean depends on the actors and conditions. Naturally, most such streets would not say clean.  See Point #3 above. "The pharma market has been invaded many times from other countries making cheaper versions of medication" Ironically, businesses (which you praise so highly), are the ones who call for these legislators to chase them out. A couple of years ago Pres. Obama refused to lift the block on allowing foreign pharmaceuticals to be sold in the US market. It was at the behest of Big Pharma (Big Business), not some "socialist" agenda.
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  3351. People have been saying that since the 1600s, lol. My prediction: Christianity will eventually fracture into more factions among fundamentalist, conservative, moderate and liberal lines. Eventually the fundamentalist and most conservative branches will continue to decline in number the same way the GOP is now. They'll chase people away as they grow more extreme, like a dying last gasp. Many de-converts will become irreligious, secular, atheist, spiritual but not religious, or join other religions. As time progresses the moderate and liberal wings will grow louder, they'll adapt and continue to makes ties and inroads with non-believers, secularists and other religions. They'll continue to undergo an "enlightenment" and secularization process like Judaism did a couple centuries ago. The moderate and liberal factions will attract some new followers - some spiritual but not religious people, some former secularists and agnostic theists or deists. Christianity will survive by morphing and some of its theology and ideology changing. Fundies will go the way some "nastika" traditions in Hinduism did - disappearing or becoming a tiny somewhat irrelevant minority. Christianity's numbers will fall to numbers similar to the number of Buddhists. Most churches will become more like the Unitarian Universalist church, or other ecumenical, open-minded sects like Quakers. That is, if they wish to endure. Christianity has reached a crossroad - it's reached the "Evolve or Die" point most ideas and groups eventually reach.
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  3373. JimboVids2 - So now you admit minorities have advanced in the past 50 years? Total reversal from what you said earlier. "Now just imagine how much further off minorities would be had you not brainwashed them for 50 years" 1) Who is "you"? I'm not a Democrat. 2) No one stands over minorities' shoulders at the polls and forces them to vote Democratic. They tend to vote Democratic because Republicans have made it abundantly clear (especially the past 15 years) they just don't like most minorities, view them as responsible for most of America's problems, believe they're a net drain, and refuse to tackle or even admit institutional problems that hamper them. Republicans convince minorities not to vote Republican. "into making them believe they're inferior and NEED social programs" Being on a social program has nothing to do with being inferior. If you're only earning $7.50/hr you can feel "equal" all you want, it doesn't put any food on the table for your children or pay the bills. Getting help from a social program doesn't make you inferior or mean you're inferior. And this is part of why most minorities don't vote Republican: The average minority is not on a social program. The average non-white American is not a welfare case. That's part of why minorities don't vote for your party: You view them as a bunch of leeches and have false images that they're mostly destitute, unemployed criminals or lazy and not trying to work. It becomes obvious how lowly conservatives often think about them and shows how little real-life contact a lot of Republican voters have with minorities. That's also another reason why the GOP can't get minority votes: The GOP doesn't offer solutions, they change the subject. Just like you did. Instead of telling what they can or will do for minorities they simply point out that some minorities are still in poverty even though most vote for Republicans. You can't tell of anything the GOP has done for minorities since 1965 or any way which the GOP has made their lives better. Do minorities who live in Red States fare any better than minorities who live in Blue States? Numbers don't suggest so. The average black person in Maryland (a "blue state") is much better off than the average black person in Mississippi (a "red state"). What are Republicans doing for their minority constituents? Or do they only help them if they vote for them? Your only answer is "Well, the Democrats aren't perfect...." and go down a list of negative minority statistics without offering answers or what Republicans have done to help or change that. Also, what about all the white Republicans on social programs? The majority of white people on social programs tend to vote Republican and live in "red states". Do they feel "inferior" too?
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  3405. ***** - "Israel does tend to give fair warnings to evacuate a populated area if they are going to bomb it." And often they confine the population in such a way that escape is very difficult or impossible, or they bomb outside the area they announced. "Hamas do conceal weapons in schools, hospitals etc. If Hamas insists on using civilians as human shields" That's false. This was debunked by UN investigation: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-the-myth-of-hamass-human-shield-9619810.html "Hamas' charter actually states that they are committed to the murder of every living Jewish person" Where? It says it will not accept a Jewish state, it says nothing about murdering every Jewish person. The Likud charter also says it will never accept a Palestinian state and will use any means to prevent one: 3) The Ottomans used religion to justify what they did, but it was more akin to the US government use of Manifest Destiny. It wasn't really a theocracy or religious extremism comparable to ISIS or al-Qaeda. It would be like comparing the US government in the 1800s to ISIS. "Suicide bombing etc is not the INEVITABLE consequence of feeling anger and revulsion at western foreign policy. There is a human agency at work, a brain, a mind." I agree. And human minds often, sadly, have a tendency to turn to extremism when they feel hopeless or feel they are in a dire or desperate situation. Not unlike how so many Europeans turned to Fascism in the 1920s to 1940s. Or the revival of Neofascism now in Europe with ongoing recession. Often backed with Christian extremism.  "What gives them the justification to do this? Islam" The problem is that that really isn't saying much. What gives the US justification for what it does in the Middle East? Money (it expects to profit by controlling things in the region). By your logic that means Money is inherently bad. Because Islam can be used as justification does not mean that's all it can be used for. It can be used for good and bad. Just like Money Or Politics. Or Economics. Or military equipment (which be used to kill terrorists or civilians). "And their interpretation is every bit as plausible as the interpretation of those who say Islam is 'peaceful'" Uh, that's a personal opinion. Unless you're intimately familiar with the religion and have read all of the Koran and the Hadith I wouldn't make such proclamations. Yes, many people latch on to these interpretations, but the human mind will latch onto anything to justify what it already wants to do. Regardless if it's reasonable or not. People have literally used pumpkins as an excuse to commit violence (like the 2014 Pumpkinfest Riot). Or sports. Most Islamists tend to be people who already have an identity crisis or are poor, disaffected or going nowhere in life and latch onto the religion to give them an identity and an excuse to take out their frustration at having nothing going for them. Much like white kids who join the Neo-Nazis.  Islam does indeed need reform, but people can and will take anything to make them feel what they're doing is somehow objectively justified by something outside of themselves. People do with it Buddhism too.
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  3406. ***** - 1) Hamas no longer views all of its charter as relevant: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/world/middleeast/05Meshal-transcript.html That includes Article 7. The Likud Party charter calls for the Palestinians to be "concentrated" and "exterminated". That could be interpreted as an explicit call for genocide. 3) I never said it wasn't religious. I said it's not religious extremist violence. Yes, Muslims have gone to war with the Zoroastrians at times in the past, but so have Christians gone to war with Muslims and Pagans. Zoroastrians still exist in the Middle East  "Again, this was based principally on theology." Says whom? Most scholars say their wars were based on land and money (just like most European wars) with Islam used as a cozy justification to get the average soldier to sign up. You need to learn more about Middle Eastern history before making such proclamations that fly in the face of Middle Eastern historical and anthropological scholarship. 4) That's not a misquote, he literally said that. That's not a justifiable quote since "motherlode of bad ideas" implies it's the biggest source of bad ideas ever, that's not quantifiable. Harris tries to squirm out of his stupid statements by forever claiming he was "misunderstood" or "misquoted" (even when directly quoted in context) when he's shown to be in error. It's very tiresome and intellectually dishonest. Anyways,  "All dogmas are bad but religion - epsecially a religion which purports to be the final, perfect and, as such unalterable word of God - is the very worst of all." a) That's not what all religions or religious sects claim or believe. That tends to be religious fundamentalism. b) How is that any worse than basing something on your political philosophy (which usually claim to be based on axiomatic "Laws of Nature")? Or in the name of Science (which claims to be objective and empirically proven)? Or based on military intelligence (which you assume to be accurate and proven)? They're all invoking absoluteness and objectivity. "as it renders you immune to the dicatates of reason." All forms of being an ideologue do. Religion is just one type. There are secular ideologues who are every bit as certain as religious ideologues (like Bolshevists, Nazis, some Libertarians, "scientific racists", Neocons, etc.). 4) That's not true. Especially among Shia Islam. There are all sorts of religious scholars, institutions of higher criticism (especially among Islamic scholarship in the West). That's what mullahs, imams, caliphs, etc. are for. "the fact is, the canon of Islamic literature does prescribe death for apostates, gays, adulterers and non-believers" As does the Old Testament. However, in both the Old Testament and the Koran there are prescriptions under what conditions this is to be done. It's not a blanket order that anyone and everyone can do at will. The Koran (or it might have been the Hadith) claims only a mullah or caliph can issue the death penalty for people. Not just any old nutbar on the street. Similar for the Old Testament. I won't argue that's moral, but it's not saying everyone can do this at will, however. "It does enjoin its followers to wage Jihad and to institute the Caliphate." This is even more clear in the Koran to only be done under certain conditions. The Koran claims that Muslims should only fight against non-Muslims if non-Muslims attack the Muslim community first. The war has to be declared by a religious clergy member (caliph or mullah) and is to be fought until the non-Muslims surrender. The Koran claims once the non-Muslims surrender, the Muslims should also stop and leave the non-Muslims alone. The Koran says that if non-Muslims aren't attacking Muslims to leave them in peace. It encourages Muslims to convert non-Muslims through proselytizing under normal conditions, and go away if they're not receptive to Islam. Now of course various Muslim leaders throughout history have abused these conditions (and willfully interpreted actions by non-Muslims as "making war" to justify a war the Muslim leader already wanted). But every religion is guilty of this and so are secular governments (Gulf of Tonkin, 9/11, etc.).
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  3439. @ayacachotinemi - Because 1 in 3 Americans is a racial or ethnic minority of some sort (when you include Hispanics) and most of them have to experience racial discrimination in various forms. Some on a frequent basis. So, naturally, we like to hear that other people (particularly some white people) are aware of the barriers and dangers we face and actually give a damn and are willing to help us address and try to correct the problem. The "rage boners" tends to be more caused by some people, like yourself, sticking your head in the ground and pretending it isn't happening or that it's a very small issue and there's a mass conspiracy to make it up or blow it way out of proportion, or attempting to justify and defend the discriminatory treatment. That shit is probably MORE infuriating than the actual examples of the discrimination. There will always be bad people, but the real tragedy is people who stand by and excuse evil. Our grievance isn't with "white people" or that "white people are evil" (and I suspect you know that too, it's just a strawman argument you use to shut this discussion down). Our grievance is with structures and institutions that carry this stuff out. Though it also becomes about civilians who defend it when some citizens actually try to defend this crap. I'm sorry you're tired of hearing about it, but minorities tire of living and experiencing it. At least you can ignore it. We don't have that luxury. Help us decrease it (like some white people do) and you'll hear about it less over time as it becomes a thing of the past. Like Polio or Yelliw Fever. Or not, but continue to suffer the massive injustice of........having to hear about others facing injustice.
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  3449. deltaxcd - "one who is producing thing that I sel is my competitor" Every country both simultaneously produces things others sell and produces things they buy. So no country is a pure competitor. Also, a partner can be in the same industry and sell the same thing you do. You don't appear to understand Economics. "In ideal case I would prefer to be only produced of my niche on whole earth but as same time I want as many companies competing to produce stuff I buy" If you want competitors to exist then you have to care what happens to them. "nothing need to do away I just don't care what will happen to Africa or India" It will also happen to Europe. Global warming is not a local problem. "I just don't care what will happen to Africa or India, they may all starve to death I wont even notice" Likewise you are just 1 individual. If you die the world would not notice. So whether or not you individually benefit from global warming is largely irrelevant. "We are talking about climate not about weather, and all logistic is already here" No it isn't. You just said the place is not ideal for farming. "all I need is higher temperature. longer summers" If you don't have enough water or if you have too much water then it's pointless. "so what all changes are just making everything better" No they aren't: http://www.oxfam.org/sites/www.oxfam.org/files/rr-economic-impacts-climate-change-agriculture-russia-010413-en.pdf Deal with reality. Not fantasy. "and living in North Korean style economy would be silly" You're the one who suggested it. You suggested that Russia could be completely economically self-sufficient and survive without international trade. "when everything is so good" No economy that lacks trade is "good". "there is nothing scary in your link" ahem "Climate change is already having a negative impact on agricultural production in Russia, especially grain production, since this sector is perhaps the most dependent on weather and climate factors. This report presents an economic evaluation of the impact of climate change on crop production at the national level and a long-term economic evaluation of the losses, profits, and risks for agriculture throughout Russia." The link shows your claim that Russia will be getting better because of climate change is nonsense. It will get worse. "Because competitors are not military enemies. If those machines are useless for you I guess you wont just throw them in the dump" Companies don't do things to benefit competitors. They're not military enemies but companies don't sell to competitors to their own disadvantage. A competing company has no incentive or motive to sell you their machines. "If food prices rise, be can buy more machines and other stuff for same amount of exported food" You don't buy more machines unless demand grows. If food prices rise there will be a drop in demand for most types of food. This is basic Econ 101. "Prices just will go up and that all" 1) Food prices affect many other markets. 2) Demand goes down for most foods when prices rise and/or people buy less often. This causes falls in profit. 3) A fall in profit can cause a fall in production. "Instead of spending 10% of your income on food, you will need to spend like 50% of income on that" Unlikely. Most people will just start buying cheaper foods and stop buying more expensive foods or stop buying certain foods altogether. Demand for all foods is not infinitely inelastic. Demand for most types of food tends to be highly elastic. Look up the concept of Demand Elasticity.
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  3546. Joseph Scott - "it is because what determines wages is the skilled output required to create it. The higher your skill, the higher wages you deserve" And please let us know how you calculated that skill required for these jobs at the minimum wage level are all worth less than $10/hour? If you please? You can't. On the other hand I can show exactly how I calculated those 'low-skill jobs' are still worth much more than $10/hour: http://www.epi.org/publication/lagging-minimum-wage-reason-americans-wages/ If were going by Economic Worth the MW should be over $18.50/hour for even the lowest-skilled jobs. "Or, the more expensive goods you produce, combined with the difficulty of labour required to produce them should give you a higher wage" Indian workers creating computers in India to sell in the US are paid wages that would be barely above MW in the US. Obviously your argument does not play out in reality. Many, many people are paid far below how expensive or labor/expertise-intensive the goods they create are and how the big the demand is. Roofers are often paid low-middle-class or working poor salaries despite having some of the most labor-intensive jobs around. "If you mandate that EVERYONE earn that 24...Why would I take the more difficult job, if I could flip burgers for the same wage?" Who is suggesting that all jobs in the market pay the same? "But wages are incentive, and if you take away incentive, you'll take away innovation" So you're suggesting a Race to the Bottom? Keep wages low to entice people to move up? How's that Trickle-Down working for ya? Now the Trickle-Down Economics people are actually openly calling for wages to be low. I thought they claimed their ideology would lead to prosperity and reduce poverty, unlike those Commies? Now they're openly calling for an economy like Mexico or India.
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  3547. Joseph Scott - I don't really see any main points in your post I didn't address, but I'll respond to your last post: 1) A Minimum Wage is simply a floor, not an across-the-board wage for every job. Many jobs would still pay significantly more than $24/hour. A factory worker would still likely be paid much more than $24/hour. Also, even if factory jobs started out at $24/hour most people would STILL prefer the factory job. That is because factory jobs have much more upward mobility than burger-flipping. Some people would also consider working at Mickey D's a more hectic, humiliating and thankless job or more tiring than working at a factory. 2) Both are a problem. If wages don't keep up with costs of living then wages are part of the problem.  BTW: *I'm not a liberal. *Where did I call you "dumb"? I think you're confusing me for someone else. "You're trying to adjust wages to inflation" Wages are supposed to be adjusted for inflation. If you don't adjust wages for inflation then wages are going down since the purchasing power of money is going down. Wages should be adjusted for inflation just like Profit Margins are. And why shouldn't wages be adjusted? The value of labor has not gone down, only the value of the dollar. The labor is still worth the same and should be compensated thusly.  Why do conservatives never take anyone into consideration other than employers and profits for employers and executives? Everyone else can take a pay cut but it's a cardinal sin to expect the same of employers and the wealthy? Why anyone who isn't a business owner or rich is a mystery to me given conservatives make their animus or at least lack of concern for workers/employees/consumers fairly clear. 2b) Inflation also inflates costs of living, in case you forgot. If wages don't adjust then not only are wages going down they're going down while costs are going UP. That's doubly bad. 
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  3555. XZDrake - The Patriot Act, NSA spying and Guantanamo Bay is a "first world problem"? WTF? It's the exact same shit Cuba does that you criticize them for, hypocrite. It's the same kind of shit the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany did. Fuck outta here with that. "America HAS constitutional rights" So does Cuba. Cuba has a Constitution and a Congress just like the US. America ignores its Constitution when it's convenient, just like Cuba. "and will ACTUALLY detain you for your political views" As does the US.....just as Bradley Manning. "Cubans are not allowed internet access or cell phones" False. They are allowed those things but their usage of it is limited. So are Americans. If you say things the US government doesn't like you go on a watch list and can possibly be detained in the future as a "enemy radicalizer" or have your reputation ruined. "Cubans have ZERO press freedoms" Huge exaggeration. There are several publications in Cuba critical of the govt. What they can say is limited, however. AGAIN, not unlike the US. If you openly praise Snowden as a "revolutionary hero" in American media expect to not have a job too much longer. "ALL media is state controlled" Almost all media in the US is corporate-controlled, which also complies with state standards. Look what happens to people who don't comply (like Dan Rather). "Cubans have ZERO political freedoms" False. Cubans also vote in elections just like Americans. They have only 1 political party allowed to win. Not unlike the US which only has 2 parties allowed to win which are just wings of the same basic party. "And most insidiously Cubans can not leave Cuba" You also can't leave the US if you're considered an enemy of the state. 80-90% of the problems you complain about with Cuba happen right here in your own fucking country, cunt. The only difference is you make excuses when it's your country and call it "first world problems" but when the exact same thing happens in Cuba you make it out to be "ZOMG worst oppression EVAH!" Fuck off with that government drone mentality. You're no friend of freedom. You'll suck totalitarian dick all day as long as it has an American flag wrapped around it, ya whore.
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  3556. XZDrake - So do we. The US has killed 150,000-500,000 innocent civilians in Iraq. How many innocents outside of Cuba has the Cuban government killed? Hm? Have they even killed 500,000 people? How many countries has Cuba invaded? Does the Cuban government have every other country under 24/7 surveillance? Are they shutting down American businesses and putting Americans in sweatshops? Nope. "and there is no possible legal or political recourse" And what legal or political recourse does one have if the US government declares them to be an "enemy"? The US government can detain or KILL you because the President said so. Without trial. How is that any different than the Cuban government? It's not. That's why it's not a "first world" problem. It's the same goddamn thing Cuba does. "in Cuba, warrant-less spying is used that way um-apologetically" It's "unapologetically", dumbass. It is in the US too. In fact, we spy on the entire world. When has the US refrained from warrant-less spying on Americans? Or on non-Americans? "You know what the difference between Cuba and North Korea is?" North Korea is batshit insane but only a threat to itself and S. Korea. Cuba is more but has a tyrannical govt and is not a threat to anyone but itself. The US is tyrannical, greedy, entitled and a threat to everyone. Again, what's the difference between the US warrant-lessly spying on its own citizens and the world and Cuba warrant-lessly spying on its own citizens? Cuba's tyranny is contained. America's is not. That's the only difference.  Your post didn't address a goddamn thing I said. Put the Old Glory flag dick down and start thinking.
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  3560. emotionzdepress - I think Atheists and Theists are going to HAVE to find a way to coexist. I don't for a second believe any country is truly "0% Atheist" or even only "1% Atheist". I think those are countries that have societies or regimes that are so staunchly or violently anti-atheist or religious fundamentalist that you're putting yourself at huge risk by openly identifying as "atheist". Likewise with State Atheist regimes like China and North Korea where basically you have to be an Atheist or else risk being imprisoned, put in a psych ward (since those regimes consider religiosity to be a mental illness), killed or at least denied jobs (in China you're pretty much limited to low-paying jobs if you openly identify as a non-atheist). So, I don't believe any country is truly less than 5% Atheist or less than 5% Theist. I don't believe theism or atheism will ever go away, no matter how much education, information, whatever there is because theism and atheism are just 2 different ways of seeing the universe. That's why an almost equal number of scientists overall are theist/deist or atheist (scientists are 32-35% Atheist, 34-38% Theist). It's a difference of opinion based on a different way of seeing or interpreting the same information. Neither of which can be proven objectively. I whole-heartedly agree with Neil DeGrasse Tyson's belief that atheism and theism will both asymptote in a society. They'll decline or increase to a certain point, then asymptote and never go below or above that point. Neither will ever go away, so they might as well learn to get along and agree to disagree where appropriate.
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  3572. supbrotv - "UAE and saudi arabia has alway been on the top half of the list for being the most economically freest states in the world" 1) UAE has a middling rank. It's not ranked that high. 2) By an organization of questionable repute (the conservative "thinktank" The Heritage Foundation). Their "criterion" seems to be little more than a country having low regulations and low corporate tax rates. Nevermind the fact in those countries you pretty much have to be connected to a friend or relative or directly to someone of importance to start up a business in those countries, workers have next to no rights, UAE has slave labor with Indian migrant workers and your business can be shut down by the govt if it steps on the toes of business holdings a noble or important official has their fingers in or if they simply make an allegation about your business. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom#Reception So how it is so "economically free"? Saudi Arabia is basically a sweatshop country and an oligarchy ruled by an oil cartel (largely OPEC). Not very "free market" at all. "I have a relative who owns a concert management business in dubai thats manages concerts for bands such as METALLICA" And? There are bands and musical management businesses in Cuba and China as well. How is Metallica being able to play in a country make it free? No offense but your criterion of "freedom" is pretty superficial and juvenile. It sounds like what a 15 year old boy would think ("They have Internet, night clubs and cool bands can play there, therefore it must be a land of liberty and plenty!") I hate to tell you this but your relative can do the exact same thing in Myanmar. Doesn't make Myanmar a freer country than Communist states. "can be refuted with a simple google search" I just posted links which verified what I just said. XD Google helped me out.
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  3584. hozehd - "eliminating statistical noise" What the hell is "statistical noise"? Data that doesn't agree with your conclusions is not "statistical noise" to be discarded. That's exactly why "Race Realism" is not scientific. It simply ignores and disregards any data that doesn't meet its predetermined conclusions and simply hand-waves them away as "statistical noise". A real scientist doesn't discard data that conflicts with a dogma. "is not the same thing as refusing to debate someone" People debate "Race Realists" all the time. And usually they lose these debates. Sometimes the "race realists" refuse to debate actual scientists on the subject. "or calling for them to be fired" Who called for whom to be fired? "With food stamps and public education" What the hell does food stamps have to do with IQ? Also, public education quality is not equal for all Americans. "in the United States it's getting kinda hard to explain a widening 20 pt IQ gap" Because that's not happening. The black-white IQ gap has shrunk to about 7-10 points. Down from 15 points back in the 70s and 80s and down from the original 18-20 point gap when it was first measured in the 1930s and 40s. The most recent measures by Flynn, Dickens and Nisbett show the black average IQ has risen to 90-93 (depending on which test you look at): http://www.brookings.edu/views/papers/dickens/20060619_iq.pdf Even hereditarians and "race realists" like Rushton would in the past 10 years the black average IQ has risen to 87-88. Deal with reality. "Especially when you control for income" Income is not the only factor at work: http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/j/jencks-gap.html
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  3670. ***** - The key word is in "breed". Dogs were intentionally bred through eugenics programs that controlled their mating and reproduction. No such thing has happened in human history. Humans have never been cut off from mating with surrounding humans and have never engaged in mass eugenics programs. Humans all gradually branched off from ancestral tribes/populations and continued to mix with surrounding neighbors. Again, you're showing you don't understand history or science. But it's cute that you try to pretend. "Separate cultures" Culture =/= Race If they were then African-Americans would be more "white" than "black". All known cultures are the result of a mixture of cultures before them. Ex: Roman culture is the result of indigenous culture in the south Mediterranean mixed with culture brought over by Eurasian Indo-European immigrants. "levels in intelligence" IQ =/= Intelligence And averages are not levels in intelligence. Averages are aggregates that change over time and contain great variation. There are millions of whites below and above the white average and millions of blacks above and below the black (and white) average. IQ averages change over time and they vary widely based on varieties of factors. To date there is no evidence they're genetic (or at least not primarily genetic). What's your evidence? Where are the IQ genes? What do they look like in 'blacks' and 'whites', particularly since "blacks" and "whites" share more genes with each other than with their own?  
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  3682. ***** - North Africans are not Persians. Aryans are Indo-Iranians. North Africans are mostly Berbers, who are an indigenous African group who are not white or black people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_North_Africa Jack shit to do with "Aryans". "The White race has crossed seas, harnessed rivers, carved mountains, tamed desert" Uh, so have other people. Many people did this before the Europeans. Like the Chinese who crossed the ocean before the Europeans. "It has been responsible for the invention of cement, the harnessing of electricity, flight, rocketry, astronomy, the telescope, space travel" Uh, no. Thomas Edison is responsible for the lightbulb, not "the white race". Benjamin Franklin and Michael Farraday are responsible for harnessing of electricity, not "the white race". Space travel was a cooperative effort of thousands of individuals (some of whom were non-white). Not "the white race". Refrigerators in trucks which keep perishable food fresh across the country was invented by a black man (Frederick McKinley Jones). Not "the black race". The Nubians and Egyptians invented Geometry. Not "the black race". A black man (al-Jahiz) invented the original Theory of Evolution, not "the black race". Races don't invent shit. Individuals do. Other people deserve no credit. You don't deserve or share any of the fame or credit for the inventions of white inventors any more than a random black man shares the credit for inventions by black inventors. Your sorry attempt to take credit for other's achievements shows your low self-esteem. We deserve no credit for others' works.
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  3683. ***** - "known significant differences between the major races include cranial capacity, average IQ, gestation time, maturation rate, hair texture, bodily musculature" We've already been through this before. Cranial capacity varies by region, not skin color. Ethiopians and Italians have cranial sizes more similar to each other than Ethiopians do to Nigerians or Italians to Swedes. Maasai skulls are more similar in size to Egyptians than they are to the Zulu or Egyptians are to Persians.  IQ differences are mostly WITHIN races and change over time. Black and white Americans have more similar IQ than white Americans and white people in Albania. There's no racial difference in gestation time or maturation rate, or body musculature. All humans have the same muscles, maturation time and gestation time. The only legit differences you've pointed out are skin color (which is a pretty insignificant difference), hair texture and sometimes average height (height can be heavily environmentally-influenced). "They even have different nutritional requirements" No they don't. Blacks, whites and Asians all need the same nutrition and food groups in equal amounts. People from some regions are just more prone to different genetic conditions which have congregated in their gene pools. Which is a regional gene pool issue, not a "racial feature". By your "logic" every family is a different "race" since all families on Earth have their own gene pool. Again you've failed and your only response is to repeat your already-debunked nonsense? You truly are done. THIS is why scientists and most intelligent people laugh at you and your ilk. When your ridiculous ideas are trounced your only response is to repeat yourself. Like children when they lose an argument, thinking repeating what they said enough times will make it magically come true.
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  3684. ***** - Yes, Africans did sell other Africans into slavery. Europeans also sold other Europeans into slavery and Asians sold Asians into slavery. Nothing new. It doesn't take one iota of accountability off the Europeans and Arabs who intentionally showed up to buy slaves and once acquiring the slaves tortured and exploited them and kept them against the slaves' will upon pain of death or torture if they tried to escape. Doesn't excuse the people who bought European and Asian slaves either. "even though human populations have been separated equally or much longer" False. There has never been any separation of humans in human history. All humans have freely traveled and intermixed with neighbors from the beginning of our history. There's never been any event in human history akin to polar bears getting cut off from brown bears or how dog breeders engage in eugenics to breed dogs with specific features and traits. Our DNA speaks of this as all people in different regions are more similar to random humans on the other side of the planet than to each other. The closest thing to this ever in our history was the breeding program of some slave owners for their African-American slaves to make their descendants bigger and hardier ("super slaves"). They would intentionally mate large males with large females. That's the only thing that comes close to animal husbandry or complete genetic isolation. Nothing to do with Political Correctness and everything to do with you knowing nothing about history and science. Shit, you don't even know about EUROPEAN history. You were unaware Scandinavians have never been an isolated peoples or that Germanic tribes migrated to central Europe from the Eurasian steppe and faced constant Turkic and Iranic invasion and mixing. lol
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  3686. ***** - "I SHOULD have a right to live amongst my people and my people ONLY if I feel like it" You already do. You can move to an all-white town if you want to. No one's stopping you. What you DON'T have the right to is the right to prevent others from moving in in order to keep it "all-white". Just like black people don't have the right to prevent people from moving into an all or mostly-black area either. That is not a right you should have. Or anyone else. "when we're clearly not" There are cultural differences between us and a few insignificant variations in physical features (hair color, eye color, skin color, head shape, nose width, hair texture, etc.). What about it? A few differences somehow prevents people from living together? Maybe for you but most people get along just fine despite not all looking like clones. "give up my identity and watch my people die out" 1) Your people are not dying out. There are more white people on the planet now than at any point in human history. There are currently 1 billion white humans on Earth. What other time in history were that many? None. The only thing that's gone down is the percentage of the total world population (and percentage of the population in the US) that white people make up. Your particular "identity" is built on a lie and a lack of ability to understand math - someone pointed out the percentage of the population white people make up in a few countries and worldwide has gone down and you mistook that for "the number of white people is going down and they're dying out".  2) Most white people don't share your particular "identity". Your identity is based on pseudo-history made up by white supremacist movements (like your myth that Scandinavia was free from non-white invaders and more "racially pure" than the rest of Europe, or that the current ethnic majority of Japan is the aboriginal population of that country, lol). You're free to believe it, but you have no right to tell other people what they can and can't do because of your "identity". You can live in an all-white town if you want to. You can't keep non-white people out and prevent their freedom of movement to keep it "all-white".
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  3702. ToTheConquered - I never said you said all business people weren't racist either.  "are in a great position to understand that racism is indeed a lie" And I totally agree to a large extent. However, I mostly agree with that notion when people's education is in science or things like sociology, anthropology, history, etc. Business people tend to be educated in business, which doesn't really do much to curtail racist notions other than maybe show all humans have equal potential to be greedy and give you an opportunity to travel the world. But traveling the world isn't quite the same either unless you're getting to be around the people, a lot of rich people tend to just hang out in rich-oriented areas abroad, which gives them limited contact with society in those countries. Also, you're mostly thinking of people in Big Business. Most business people are small business owners. You don't even have to have finished high school to own a small business and on average small business owners are only about as educated or slightly more than the general public. Big Business people tend to be more educated, but in things like Finance, Economics and Business Admin. "you keep acting as though I should" I never said you said all business people are non-racists. Now YOU'RE being disingenuous about what I said. However, you did say that because business people are in a position that can potentially cause a person to be less racist you just assumed that they ARE less racist on average. Because you're more educated does not automatically mean you're less racist. What I was complaining about was that you never presented any evidence business people are less racist on average. Economic data wouldn't back up your theory since, on average, black people with equal education and credentials with their white counterparts are 50% less likely to be called back or hired. Particularly if they have a "black-sounding" name or voice. Judging from the data it seems many businesspeople fall prey to the same social stereotypes and assumptions about people as the rest of society. At best you're letting your little hurt feelings or whatever interfere with your ability to reason. At worst you're intentionally ignoring reality and data to cling to a belief you want to maintain. What psychologists call "Belief Preservation". 
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  3713. Sperg Furgerson - The DOCTORS said minor. They are the experts who examined him and deal with traumatic injuries all the time. Not you or me. I'll trust their professional, experienced and neutral judgement over your desire-based (your desire to vindicate or justify Zimmerman) interpretation. "he got punched 20 - 30 times, which is possible after a few hard punches" Not really. No fucking way you could mistake one or a few punches for 20-30 punches. It's like saying "Did I say I ate 100 cookies? My mistake, I meant 10." No way you could make an error that large. "Trayvon proceeded to get on top of him than punch him, than try to bash his head" 1) There's absolutely no evidence of this. Even John Good claimed to see TM standing up (not kneeling or sitting on top of GZ) and simply flailing his arms downward with not much significant force. Not enough for him to see or hear any hits connect, and apparently not enough to cause GZ any visible damage (I doubt it's responsible for the nose damage or the couple of minor scratches) on the back of his head.  2) TM's body completely contradicts this account since his hands have none of GZ's hair, skin, blood or DNA on them. It would be nearly physically impossible to grab someone's head and bash it against concrete 20-30 times and get none of their hair or blood on your hands and none of their skin under your nails and leave little if any blood on the concrete.  3) If this were true GZ's head would have severe trauma and profound bleeding. Slamming someone's head hard against concrete even once or twice is enough to kill. Let alone in excess of 10 by a supposedly enraged nearly-adult male. At a bare minimum GZ would have symptoms like broken bones, concussion, cerebral bruising, severe headaches, incoherence/trouble speaking, dizziness, shaking or unresponsiveness (from neurological trauma/damage), etc. Or unconsciousness, coma or death. This was confirmed by Dr. Di Maio during his testimony. By all accounts GZ was very alert, lucid and coherent when cops and neighbors arrived with no signs of any significant trauma. Dr. Rao testified GZ likely fell down and bumped his head once or twice, 3 or 4 times at max. You can't walk away needing nothing more than a bandaid if a nearly-grown male slams your head on concrete 20-30 times hard enough in an attempt to kill you. Unless you're Marv from "Sin City".
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  3714. Sperg Furgerson - "There isn't any evidence that his wounds were self-inflicted" Technically there isn't any evidence they came from Trayvon either. We just SURMISE that they did, but that's not the same as being physically proven. Trayvon has no injuries or scarring that can conclusively be linked to the fight other than a shot to the heart. The sinking point in GZ's account is that physical evidence and his injuries radically differ from the kind of injuries and physical evidence that would exist if he were telling the truth. At a bare minimum he's HUGELY exaggerating. Which takes away from his credibility - if you want to show you were forced into self-defense, intentionally exaggerating shows you're either hiding something or portraying the event in a certain way because you realize its reality would be much less generous to your defense. You tell the whole truth if your story is on the up-and-up. "believe the burden of proof lies on Zimmerman" If you claim self-defense you DO have a burden. That's basic American law. If you claim self-defense you have a burden to show/prove it because in essence you're accusing the other person of being the aggressor/offender. Just as Zimmerman has the right to assumption of innocence until guilt is proven so does Trayvon. The twist is that since the prosecution claims murder all GZ has to do is present reasonable doubt to avoid that conviction. If the prosecution goes for manslaughter or negligent homicide GZ/defense has a heavier burden since those charges put a much lighter burden on prosecution.  "the amount of insufficient evidence some how makes him guilty" We already know he's culpable/liable (not the same as guilty of murder). This incident wouldn't have happened if he had exercised better judgement and self-control and let the police handle their jobs instead of trying to do their job for them. Had he listened to the dispatch and stayed in the car the incident would likely have never happened. He's guilty of that much. Is he guilty of murder? That cannot be proven (IMHO). Is he guilty of manslaughter? I think the evidence is strong enough to show he at least committed negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter. Maybe voluntary manslaughter at first (given he only shot once and hit TM in the heart and physical evidence, according to Dr. Di Maio, indicates TM may have been in the process of backing away when GZ shot).  "than yes, Trayvon has the right to defend yourself" 1) GZ may have been. You don't know what GZ did or didn't say. 2) GZ's actions were hostile and menacing. Any rational person would be intimidated by a random stranger in an unmarked vehicle at night stalking behind them for several minutes, never catching up to or passing by them, then the driver getting out on foot to pursue or look for them when the person being followed gets spooked and runs off/hides. By law that entitles a person to non-lethal self-defense, if a person is willfully and knowingly causing emotional distress in a person not bothering them or anyone else. That's called "Harassment" (Florida Statute 776.012).
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  3718. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_coalition Trying to pretend the parties haven't changed since the 1860s is the modern conservative Republicans' pathetic tactic of trying to distance American Conservatism from its association with racism. It also attempts to ignore the trend of Party Systems. 2) Voter ID laws are being struck down by the Supreme Court specifically because it a,punts to a midern-day Poll Tax. It requires people to pay money to vote in the form of paying for specific ID. It attempts to solve a statistically almost nonexistent problem the GOP didn't suddenly care about until after Obama won in 2008 by essentially taking away millions of people's voting rights to catch the 5-10 or so possible extant cheaters. It's thinly veiled because if it was really about ID they'd offer free photo IDs to voters, or do like Canada and have voters sign affidavits or accept other IDs like student ID or other gov't ID. The Dissenting Minority opinion on the Court specifically stated that voter suppression has not been resolved in the Supreme Court case dealing with the Voting a Rights Act. Also, Clarence Thomas is a likely Affirmative Action hire (something Republucans claim to hate, but have no problem exploiting when it's beneficial to them) who is ironically opposed to many things (such as AA) that helps black Americans. 3) That gap is the remaining gap AFTER time off is factored in. The gap also appears in staring salaries (even in positions where there is no salary negotiation). Hence why it's considered "unexplained". But now you're arguing that indeed women are paid less because they're penalized for motherhood. Hence why we need more laws and programs subsidizing both Maternity and Paternity Leave. 4) I don't have a problem with CCW laws, but Open Carry is just asking for trouble because no one can tell who is a registered carrier or not (no way to tell open carriers from psychos and criminals). I don't view CCW or Lily Ledbetter as arbitrary bullshit. SYG is the Republican worthless bugaboo, IMO (and has measurable problems, while I've seen no evidence Liliy Ledbetter would cause harm). Carbon Taxes are the Democrat basically worthless bugaboo IMO.
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  3814. AnonymousPC - The Skill level argument is little more than obfuscation. Had wages kept up with inflation and Average Worker Productivity the MW would be around $24/hour. There are few people in the job market whose skill level is truly worth less than $10/hour in modern American dollars. "it would ensure the failure of many franchises, as franchises would have a much harder time absorbing and accounting for the cost than the corporate run ones would" This is a bullshit argument. The profit margins of most American businesses has more than quadrupled since 1970 and back in the 60s the MW in today's dollars would be over $12/hour. If the average business could afford to pay wages that would be over $12/hour in today's dollars with more than 4x less money why would they suddenly be unable to do so now?  Any business that can't afford to pay MW is a business that needs to go out of business. They can be replaced by businesses who CAN afford to comply with the law. The MW is a law simply ensuring workers are being paid some semblance anywhere near what they're worth (still actually much less than what they're worth). With an increase in the MW consumers have more money to spend (the Trickle-Down Economics cult seems to forget that workers are also consumers). Demand is what drives employment, and with an increase in demand there is an increase in Profits, and also an increase in employment to meet the increased Demand. But right-wingers will claim Trickle-Down economics works! Well, where are are the fruits of all this trickle-down? An economy full of people working for $7.35/hour and having to apply for Welfare, apparently. Don't raise the Minimum Wage! It'll cut into profit margins of employers and owners! Well, what happens if we keep the MW where it is and the employers get to keep their increasing profits? Does it help us any? Well....maybe someday......
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  3824. ***** - I know some are, but most Buddhists aren't atheist because the Buddha claimed to communicate with some gods and many/most Buddhists therefore believe these same gods exist. The only gods the Buddha ever denied the existence of were a few specific Hindu deities and an eternal Creator god. That's why Buddhism can't be classified as "atheistic" in and of itself as a whole. No atheist would claim they've spoken with gods like the Buddha did. Buddha even claimed to be a god in a former life. The problem is many Western atheists (and theists) are attempting to interpret Buddhism through the lens of their own native Judeo-Christian Abrahamic monotheistic culture. Don't. That has nothing to do with Buddhism. Buddhism comes from the background of a polytheistic culture (Indian Dharmic traditions). Work with it from that context only. Buddhism itself is Nontheistic or Transtheistic and doesn't really deal with attempting to define big-G "God". Hence why one can be a theist or atheist and still be a Buddhist. However, I'd argue that both theism and atheism have beliefs that would hinder one from being a full Buddhist. Atheists generally can't accept the non-material, sublime or mystical, or things that go beyond physical sciences and 5-sensory observation. Theists often can't accept things not centered around an Ultimate Being or worship of said Being, or things centered around the (not)Self, or things criticizing gods and sages skeptically. These attitudes would be considered hindrances/stumbling blocks to enlightenment by Buddha.
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  3847. ***** - "Trayvon's stuff were on the ground cuz he probably threw them down to sock Zimmerman" 1) That would contradict his supporters' primary theory that TM made it home, then came back to fight GZ. 2) That makes no sense since GZ and his supporters contend that TM turned around and came back to GZ (even if not making it home). TM would have put his phone in his pocket, not thrown it on the ground. What you said made no sense.  The phone on the ground indicates the fight started suddenly enough for TM to not have time to put it away. Nobody throws expensive Smartphones on the ground. "could just mean Zimmerman was trying to push Trayvon off of him" By pulling on the drawstring? That makes no physical sense. But neither does GZ's story of how he supposedly screamed loud enough (despite voice analysts agreeing the voice was likely not GZ and GZ himself initially saying it didn't sound like him) to be heard on neighbor's cell phones despite TM allegedly covering and pushing down on his nose and mouth (and managing to get none of GZ's blood or DNA on his hands). Or how he was able to get his gun out of his rear pocket despite a 160-lb person supposedly sitting on him and his own 200+-lb weight on top of the gun. "And the injuries to both parties prove exactly what transpired" Not at all. Medical personnel said GZ's injuries were not consistent with his story. Dr. Rao called his injuries "insignificant" and "minor". How does that confirm his story? Are you even reading? "Medical reports show Zimmerman had a broken nose" The report doesn't say broken. Or a black eye. "two lacerations on the back of the head" 2 minor scratches is inconsistent with having your head slammed nearly 30 times by a 17 year old. Your damn head would be split open. As Dr. Rao said. Unless you're Marv from "Sin City".  What mentions a lip and back injury?
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  3849. ***** - "if Zimmerman's injuries are inconsistent with his story then how in the world did he get" I already said Rao's theory was he fell and bumped his head once or twice after TM punched his nose. No one claimed TM was beat up, but TM's clothes and belongings indicate he may have been shoved and restrained at some point. "when you have no proof whatsoever to back that" I just mentioned above and before. The fact TM's things were haphazardly dropped, Jeantel hearing it on the phone, etc. "And the phone probably fell when Trayvon punched Zimmerman" TM would have put his phone away in his pocket before punching someone. Logic fail. "Trayvon was taking part in a violent psychopathic assault" Defending yourself against someone who is stalking and chasing you is not assault or psychopathic. Especially when all you inflict is minor injuries that don't even require serious medical attention. On the other hand, GZ made a one-kill shot for minor injuries in a confrontation he himself instigated.  "because there is no sense of imminent threat to Trayvon" When you run away from a stranger stalking you and they grab a gun and get out on foot there IS an imminent threat. I'm sure you'd agree if some guy did this to you or your relatives. "Zimmerman also lawfully had the right to shoot someone dead if they tried to kill him" Yet there's absolutely no evidence anyone tried to kill him. "Anyways, I'm not going to argue small evidence discrepancies" A complete contradiction from your claims is not small by any measure. Except maybe in in the Alternate Reality of Zimbos like yourself with your lips wrapped tightly around his 2-inch cock. "provided one proper evidence that Zimmerman killed Trayvon in cold blood" A one-shot hit in the heart shows intent to kill in cold blood. Especially when it's possible TM may have been standing and backing away when shot, as Dr. Di Maio admitted.
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  3850. ***** - "that she didn't know for sure if TM was punched first" She didn't claim he was punched, she said she heard a noise that sounded like TM being shoved (and a second man's voice), then the phone hitting the ground. Thanks for shooting your own argument in the foot by pointing out something irrelevant. "Phone fell as in it could have fell out of his hoody pocket" TM carried his phone in his pants pocket. Can you be right about anything? Jesus. "So it has been established the Zimmerman fell because Trayvon punched him" That's a theory. It wasn't established. "It is also established that Trayvon "ground and pounded" Zimmerman according to Johnathan Good" He took that statement back. Said he "misspoke". He later said he saw no hits connect and heard no hits, just saw TM flail. I guess that makes him non-credible then, huh? "So that equals to, violent thug behaviour" Since when is defending yourself from an attacker "violent thug behavior"? "Doesn't matter how "minor" the injuries were" UH, YES IT DOES MATTER. GZ claimed he was beat within an inch of his life and slammed nearly 30 times. If this didn't happen it shows he's lying. If he's lying then he has guilt to hide. "then most likely Zimmerman would've gone unconscious and possibly be killed" That's what would realistically happen to someone who's head is slammed 25-30 times on concrete by an allegedly enraged 17 year old male. Unless Zimmerman is a DBZ character. Which you apparently seem to think he is (durability-wise). "GZ felt his life was in danger" Assumptions again.
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  3851. ***** - "Because I'm sure you had a camera during the whole incident" I'd say the same thing about you since you claim to know GZ was going back to his truck, TM turned around and rushed towards him and was trying to kill him. You should have been a witness in court since you seem to believe you were a fly on the wall to the incident. "Like you never tried downplaying the seriousness" That's what trained, medical professionals said. Their opinion counts far more than what you (or I) think about GZ's minor booboos. I'll take their word over a GZ dick-sucker's Motivated Reasoning. "unless invisible man came and gave him that bruise on his nose" That's from being punched in it. "and cut on his head" That's from falling back and bumping his head, likely. You get a fuck of a lot more than minor booboos from having your fucking head slammed on pavement half a hundred times. "he walked it back after repeatedly being asked the same stupid questions over and over again" 1) Excuses, excuse. Jeantel was asked the same questions over and over again too. As was everyone else. 2) He walked it back BEFORE the trial even started.  "I probably would've done the same thing" So you'd be an unreliable witness who'd commit perjury because you're sick of answering questions? God help whoever has you as a witness. You'd be pretty shitty. "getting fed up with the liberal BS agenda" So now cross-examination is "liberal BS agenda"? Didn't know conservatives don't believe in Law. Makes sense of their behavior and policies. "The injuries were still valid enough" Wrong. Minor injuries don't justify lethal force. Your life has to be in immediate danger. There is no real indication it was. See 776.012. "GZ claim was how it felt for him" Yet you believe you can know how TM felt or didn't feel.... "You act like TM just poked him and ran." And you act like GZ was just watching TM from a distance and not doing anything else.
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  3873. bulbinking - "I just mentioned its near impossible to know if it happens" So how do you know it's a "huge problem" if it's impossible to know if it happens? You're proclaiming to know something is a "huge problem" that you just admitted you cannot even prove is going on. Let's get this straight: Your evidence is a lack of numbers? Your evidence that voter fraud is much more common than we know is a lack of evidence that it's more common? Your evidence that the number is much higher is your own speculation, which you can't put any number to, on what an unknown number of people MIGHT, maybe, theoretically, possibly may have done? "Did you forget ACORN?" What about ACORN? You mean that Fox News story where they heavily edited the story to make it appear that it was easy to con 1 worker when the reality of what happened was much different? http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/falling-for-the-acorn-hoax/ It turned out to be largely a non-story with clever editing. It's why James O'Keefe ended up successfully sued. The fact you have to cite a Fox News story is desperate. "Also in illinois they count registered voters who have been dead or moved without officially changing their address within the state" Cite your source. "Those are two example of our faulty system" Oh, 2 examples. Jesus, it must be happening everywhere then! eyeroll I can show 2 examples of Republican politicians making racist comments. I guess that proves most Republicans are racist, according to your logic. 
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  3959. John Constantine - While I agreed that things have changed we never reached some magic era or year where women achieved fully equality with men. "Women are now the advantaged class in Western society" False. Women having advantages over men in family court and the child support system doesn't mean they're an advantaged class. Family court is not the only aspect of society. Women aren't advantaged over men in the workplace. Or by society (compare how society judges men who are promiscuous compared to women who are promiscuous). Or in politics (like the current wars with abortion and contraceptives or Lilly Ledbetter). "There are real problems in our country that we citizens must address" Social and economic inequality and non-equal treatment is a real problem. "We allow ourselves to be separated -- by gender, color and class -- into warring groups." I hate to break it to you: But America is not an egalitarian society. Minorities and women have not achieved equality in this country yet. Unless you're going to argue that minorities' inequality is also completely their own choice. The same could also be said for class. Maybe the 99% hasn't had much economic growth since the 70s because we just don't work hard enough? "We are divided and controlled" Very true. However, addressing inequality is not divisive. Unless you're a person who doesn't want to fix inequality. "Feminism is currently the worst of these made up prejudices" Feminism is not a prejudice. "There are movements for equality, and feminism is not one of them." By that logic the same should be said about the MRM.
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  3967. AsifIcarebear3 - "I've laid out" And I've laid out in explicit detail multiple times why it doesn't. Don't fucking get it? "Except they fucking were" Who were these people, dumbass? "Implying that my example is anywhere near the same realm" You said "extreme". They're both extreme (the most remote possibility). Unless you have evidence your scenario happens more often you're making shit up. You admitted your entire damn scenario was an exercise in imagining the most remote, over-the-top and unlikely scenario. "You seriously never heard about the fact that you should keep your cool and a level head, because it's easier to think with that?" That has to do with rationality, not intelligence. Dummy. "Once afuckinggain, wrong. I've said 6 times by now how an extreme example helps to puncture the black and white world view." And once again, I've said it doesn't really since an "extreme" doesn't even necessarily occur in reality. It's little more than an exercise in mental wankery. I guess that's right up your alley. lol "is anywhere nearly as like as a black hole just popping up in front of you out of nowhere?" I've never heard of either scenario actually happening in real life. Possible does not mean probable. "You're not worthy of madness" But yet you're mad... "The extreme example is not the only grey area, it is simply meant to demonstrate that it is there" As is the possibility of a black hole forming on Earth. We don't consider that realistic even though it's possible. "I'm sure you're capable of discussing quantum mechanics" Uh, yeah. I took Physics up to the 380-level in college. Did you? "I like that you skip over the example I gave. I actually know a girl who does all the things I mentioned" Personal anecdotes aren't useful as empirical evidence, dumbass. I know a person who hates being human and wishes he could become another species. Neither of these extreme outliers is really useful in a universal statement about humanity. "I won the game" Except you lost right here: "http://www.thefreedictionary.com/extreme "ex·treme  (ĭk-strēm′) adj. 1. Most remote in any direction; outermost or farthest: the extreme edge of the field. 2. Being in or attaining the greatest or highest degree; very intense: extreme pleasure; extreme pain. 3. Extending far beyond the norm" Now what does "practically" mean? http://www.thefreedictionary.com/practically "prac·ti·cal·ly  (prăk′tĭk-lē) adv. 1. In a way that is practical. 2. For all practical purposes; virtually. 3. All but; nearly; almost.... ..... 1. virtually; almost: it has rained practically every day. 2. in actuality rather than in theory" Therefore, "extreme" is not "practical" (useful)."
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  4056. sk8bow - "so if you grow up buddhist vs christian, you will be affected by differing views and you will be a different person" True. "when the brain doesn't function, we are not the same" Likely true. "there is no afterlife, period." Non Sequitur. The conclusion doesn't follow the buildup and the rest of the facts. Because we stop being able to trace Neural Correlates (which we have scarcely tapped into so far) doesn't mean consciousness completely stops. 1) To date there is no conclusive evidence that "Consciousness" is simply an effect of Neural Correlates. There is no direct evidence or scientific explanation of how chemicals, hormones and electricity would create thoughts, emotions or qualia.  2) Currently we are unable to determine of neural correlates are a cause or effect of the "mind", or somewhere in-between: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_correlates http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness There are other possibilities, such as that consciousness may be an effect of the Universe itself, like electromagnetism or gravity or entropy, that interacts or overlaps with neurological activity. If so, it's possible that "consciousness" not only could potentially carry on after the death of the brain (although in a form not currently traceable by modern scientific equipment) but before the creation of an individual's brain. However, this does not mean the individual would be aware it continues after brain death, or that the person's mind would still be the same. It's possible there could be an "afterlife" that is impermanent and that the individual isn't even the same person anymore (or have the same kind of awareness) as their "mind" changes without a brain.
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  4081. LadyAmaltheaUnicorn - Watson was shut down because his statements didn't jibe with the psychiatric community's findings. Has nothing to do with right-wing conspiracy theories about "Marxism" (Marxism is a theory about property, not Race). He's a geneticist, not a psychiatrist. He hasn't presented any evidence of intelligence alleles showing up at different rates in different groups. If he did, it'd be a different conversation. "Race Realists" aren't taken seriously because, like you're doing, they've never shown direct evidence of the genetic component of IQ. Aside from often using shoddy methodology and throwing out data that contradicts their conclusions, they just show that racial gaps exist but don't explain how they sussed out the genetic component from the environmental component. They just assume it's mostly genetic with no direct evidence. Generics needs direct evidence, not inference from phenomena that can't be directly differentiated from environmental influences. That's the thing - *THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT WHITE ADMIXTURE IN AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAS CHANGED IN THE PAST 90 YEARS*. Tests on African-Americans has yielded no correlation between white admixture and IQ. Black Americans with more European ancestry didn't have higher IQs than black Americans white less or 0 European ancestry. The key factors seemed to be education level, family circumstances, childhood nutrition and how educated the parents are. 'Races' don't have consistent scores internationally. The African-American IQ average is much closer to the European IQ average than Africans, and Afro-Canadians have a slightly higher IQ average than African-Americans. Yes, Africa is not all black, but the North African IQ average of 86-88 isn't that much higher than the Sub-Saharan average of 78-82. The Flynn Effect has been observed in all races in 1st World countries *but not at the same rates*. Black, Native American and Latino IQ averages in the US have increased at a faster rate than the Asian-American IQ and the Asian-American IQ has risen at a faster rate than the white American IQ. The gap has shrank between whites and all other groups. In the.1920s and 1930s when testing began, the black-white IQ gap was 20 points. It was 18 points around WWII. It shrank to 15 points by the tine The Bell Curve was published and by the early 2000s had shrunk to just 7-10 piunts. Half of what it was when IQ tests first began. The Asian-American average IQ was in the high-80s and low-90s in the 1930s. Racialists used that data to "prove" that Asians were mentally inferior to whites. Asians have now slightly surpassed whites (largely because Asian immigrants tend to be highly educated). If IQ were mostly genetic the gap shouldn't have shrank so drastically on just 90 years, especially for African-Americans who, unlike Asian-Americans, aren't recent immigrants. Nothing has really changed about the Human genome in that time.
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  4082. LadyAmaltheaUnicorn - No one is preventing Watson or anyone else from this line of research. There have been Racialists in Science for centuries and continue to this day. Their "findings" keep getting refuted for being factually incorrect and using shoddy methodology. Refuting their results is not preventing them from researching. Their research simply fails to confirm their conclusions. Government donors have nothing to do with harebrained conspiracies about "Marxism". This is ALWAYS the excuse "Race Realists" cone up with when science won't confirm or debunks their ideology. And, no, no scientific studies have confirmed any correlation between European admixture in African-Americans and IQ. Being light-skinned doesn't automatically mean you have higher European admixture. Many dark-skinned black Americans actually have more European ancestry than light-skinned black Americans. Studies by Moore (1986), Loehlin (2000), Mackintosh (2011), Nisbett (2009) and Nisbett et. al. (2012) found no support for a correlation between European admixture and IQ in black Americans. Not to mention there are no studies shoeing an increase in European admixture in African-Americans. A majority of mixed-race Americans now identify as "Multiracial" rather than "black". Low-income whites usually are not as financially bad off as low-income blacks and low-income white children tend to still attend suburban schools or attend rural schools, both of which tend to have better funding or better teachers than average urban schools. Low-income blacks also tend to be more likely to be dependent on food assistance, therefore tend to eat a lot of cheap, not very nutritious food or eat a lot of fast food. Low-income black women are more likely to be single mothers (single-parent households lower IQ) and are less likely to breastfeed than white mothers (this also adversely affects IQ). Poor blacks tend to live in urban areas, which have heightened levels of lead (again, which damages IQ).
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  4124. Gnomefro - "There are all kinds of ways to come off as a reasonable person" How does raising your voice mean you're an unreasonable person?  "but having violent outbursts is exactly the thing that will get you correctly labelled as a thug" Where was the violent outburst? He raised his voice. There was no act of violence. This is the definition of "thug": http://www.thefreedictionary.com/thug *"1. A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum. 2. also Thug One of a band of professional assassins formerly active in northern India who worshiped Kali and offered their victims to her. a tough and violent man, esp a criminal"* So how was he "correctly" labeled a "thug"? Nothing he did fit that definition. "Thug" doesn't just mean "a person exhibiting behavior I find disagreeable or a bit disconcerting".  Basically you're saying that if a black person exhibits any behavior in the normal range of human behavior that could be considered negative then it's alright to call them a "thug"? "What that clown was doing was playing the race card" It's not a "race card" when it's actually happening. How often are white men called "thugs" simply for raising their voice (and not even cussing)? When you start seeing white guys called "thugs" as often as black men are for minor things, then you can talk about "playing the race card". But anyone who isn't blind or playing dumb seems to be able to see how frequently black men are called "thugs" for the slightest thing. Even if they've done nothing wrong. Black men are called "thugs" just for having their pants too low or wearing a cap backwards. Or wearing a hoodie. 
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  4558. Jaanus Hiiemae - Statistical analysis has shown that Jill Stein had jack shit to do with Clinton losing. Aside from the fact most Stein voters would have simply sat out had Stein not been on the ballot, you could equally accuse Gary Johnson of having cost Trump a few states. All 3rd Parties did is keep Hillary from getting her ass whooped even harder since Johnson got 3x more votes than Stein and Johnson may have narrowly cost Trump Nevada and Colorado. Hillary might have lost 2 or 3 more states had Johnson not been in the ballot. If you want someone to blame, go blame the 9% of Democrats who voted for Trump. They outnumber all 3rd party voters combined. Why aren't you screaming at Democrats who voted for Trump? Better yet, blame Democrats who voted for Hillary during the Primaries because all polling showed that Hillary could barely beat Trump since March 2016. Hillary was the absolute worst Democrat to put up against Trump and people screamed warnings the whole Election but Hillary voters refused to listen. They got behind the weakest Democratic Presidential candidate in modern history. Not to mention I don't buy for a second that Sanders and Warren would have any power under a Clinton Administration. Hillary didn't budge an inch on her positions after the Primaries other than promoting and extremely watered-down version of Bernie's college plan. THAT'S IT. Hillary's plan was merely a forbearance that delayed student debt for a few years but did nothing to control the costs or bring down costs that cause such debt to begin with. When Bernie delegates informed her she might lose Bernie voters she just arrogantly replied "I am winning". Look how the Establishment Democrats have worked to undermine Sanders and Warren since the Election and condemn them any time they criticize the Party for not doings anything to help the people. Sanders and Warren would have even less power under a Clinton Administration than they do now, I'd wager. The only reason they have any power now is because Establishment Democrats have little choice but to give them some symbolic position now that the Establishment Democrats have been weakened by Trump's win.
    2
  4559. Jaanus Hiiemae - Asise from the fact the DNC engaged in voter suppression of Bernie voters, just like they accuse the Republicans of doing, then why didn't puritan partisan Democrats smiled brats who kept the "Not even a Democrat!!!" line going through the Primaries get on board if you're sure Bernie would have won? Those are the ultimate "spoiled brats", not to mention 90% of Sanders voters voted for Hillary in November while only 80% of Hillary voters from the 2008 Primaries voted for Obama. Hillary voters in both 2008 and 2016 were mostly Democrat partisans while both 2008 Obama voters and 2016 Bernie voters were largely Independents. Which brings me to my next point: Hillary was weak because *SHE DOESN'T APPEAL TO ANYONE BUT DEMOCRATS*. She doesn't appeal to Independents and she damn sure doesn't appeal to Republicans. Trump beat Hillary by 10 points among Independents and Bernie led Hillary by 25-36 points among Independents. Hillary was able to win the Primaries partly because the Democratic Primaries in 2016 had more Closed Primaries than the Republican Primary. Bernie easily win most Open Primaries outside of the South. The stronger candidate is the candidate who can more easily win Open Primaries because Open Primaries are a dress rehearsal for General Elections. Closed Primaries don't resemble how a General Election will operate. Hillary was weaker because she was only dominant when only Democrats can vote. Hillary usually lost when Independents and Republicans can vote, which is how General Elections operate. Hillary winning the Primaries only proved she's more appealing to Democrats and no one else. Most Americans are not Democrats. Most American voters are Independents and Millennials, who overwhelmingly supported Bernie over Hillary. Democrats only made up 29% of registered voters (now 25% since they lost 4 million voters over voter suppression last year during the Primaries). Independents make up 45% of voters. Congratulations that Hillary was more popular among Democrats (at the time, now Bernie is more popular than Hillary even among Democrats), but that's the only group in America she was popular among: Democrats over 45 years old. That's why she was such a weak candidate. Not to mention 2 million fewer black voters and 1 million fewer Latino voters came out for her than in 2012. That's weak. Losing to Trump is weak no matter how you cut it. Then you claimed Bernie is a Nativist? WTF? Now you're just flat-out lying. Hillary was the one who supported a "border wall" back in 2008.
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  4574. ​ @wvu05  Exactly. Weak, agnostic atheism is the easiest form to defend, so some strong, gnostic atheists retreat to that definition when pressed even though they previously made a strident claim. I think it's because they realize making a positive or strident claim (like "No gods exist") would put some burden of proof on them even though it's a statement of rejection. Like if I said "Japan does not exist". Even though it's a statement of negation it's still asserting positive knowledge, so I would need to back that statement up. So they retreat to a safer, more defensible position like weak agnostic atheism to squirm out of the burden of proof. Whether they know it or not, that's a weasely tactic known as "Motte and Bailey". The first sentence of your second paragraph sums up New Atheists almost perfectly! I'm not religious myself, but I've always noticed there is huge overlap in the mentality of New Atheists and religious fundamentalists. They share the same exclusionary and hypervigilant ideological gatekeeping, obsession with perfection and lack of error or falliabilty (New Atheists can't understand why religious people would value a flawed or imperfect text), the lack of ability to wrap their minds around nuance or relativism, and the insistence on absolutism and "the one true" interpretation of everything. Everything must have "the objective, one true" way or interpretation of reading or understanding something. I think it's no coincide that a lot of New Atheists sound like they tend to come from religious fundamentalist or theologically conservative households and upbringing when they describe their background. They lost the religion but not the fundamentalist mindset or psychological framework. They also tend to not be much more knowledgeable about Christian history than religious fundamentalists either. Like being unaware that this interpretation of scripture has only been a widespread thing for about 250 years and many denominations and sects predate fundamentalism, like you said.
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  4810. Noel Zee - "It doesn't" Fulfill means to complete something. Things don't generally continue after being "fulfilled". It's another way of saying "completed" or "accomplished". To claim something is "fulfilled" and continue it would make about as much sense as Bush's "Mission Accomplished" declaration then continuing the war for umpteen more years. "That does not define it as changed" No one said anything about changing, but it marks it as finished. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fulfill *a :  to put into effect :  execute b :  to meet the requirements of (a business order) c :  to bring to an end d :  to measure up to :  satisfy* If the Law is "fulfilled" it would not continue since it is complete. That would imply the Law has not "changed" per se but it is no longer active. Here are other ways that verse is translated into English: http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-17.htm Notice they all have to do with completion? If Jesus wanted his followers to continue upholding the Law he could have just said, "Keep the Law of Moses, even after my death." You don't talk about things you intend to continue as being "fulfilled" or "completed". "And one of the greatest issues is that it does not account for which laws changed, if they in fact did." Actually, Jesus spells out what Christians are supposed to follow. Here's a list of proclamations Jesus made to his followers: http://iblp.org/questions/what-are-commands-christ You seem to be hung up on the word "changed". I didn't use that term, I think you're having a conversation with someone else and attributing it to me. I said that Jesus claimed the law was "fulfilled" (completed/finished/accomplished) by himself.
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  4828. ICEN - "You mean to tell me that your going to just think "Aww its just some wanna bes I am fine this is a big joke ha ha ha Its cool" 1) Not sure why you brought up their color. I don't base whether or not I think someone looks shady or like a criminal on their skin color. 2) I'd think those 7 people sound like fucking idiots, probably some dumbass teenagers or early 20-something guys. But I wouldn't necessarily assume they're criminals. But I'd not interact with them because teenage boys being loud can be rowdy and try to show off for their friends. 3) I'd behave the same way if the were wearing business suits. If 7 guys are loudly swearing and swaggering around in public I'd assume they might not have good sense and might be prone to doing something stupid regardless of what they're wearing. Or their skin color. I'd also steer clear of 7 females acting like that too. "Well come to my hood and when you walk past a group of 7 niggas and get your fucking teeth knocked out you tell me how your judging went for you" And where do you live, exactly? I have a feeling it's not all that 'hood. I love how nowadays these "tough on crime" conservatives all love to anonymously claim they live in high-crime ghettos. I guess they think it adds to their Internet "street cred" and makes them seem like they know what they're talking about. XD I've spent time in East Baltimore. Not exactly a good place. I can usually tell the difference between teenage boys trying to act "hard" and actual thugs/gangsta types. You seem to just see some black teens in sagging jeans and jump to a conclusion. That'd be, like I said, just automatically assuming a young white guy with a bald head must be a Neo-Nazi or Aryan Brotherhood member.
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  4836. ***** - It's like we're kindred spirits. I was also raised by Fundamentalist-leaning Evangelical parents (who since then have become more liberal about their Christianity). I left being a conservative around late 2002 as I saw the US starting to devolve in the fervor of Neoconservatism and jingoist nationalism after 9/11. I became a progressive Democrat by 2003 when the War in Iraq broke out. I started to see the writing on the walls of what conservatism often boils down to and what cons are willing to do to accomplish their goals. The Patriot Act and the Bush Tax Cuts was a major breaking point with me. Even when I was a conservative I was still concerned about workers, being from an African-American family who started out working poor and eventually worked up to becoming middle-class; partly due to the help my dad's veteran benefits gave which allowed him to go to college after he retired from 22 years in the Army. I saw how most conservatives don't care about workers and view bosses, owners and board executives as the true backbone of an economy rather than the rest of us. The GOP's increasing (or just less hidden) racism and xenophobia and the obvious anti-black sentiment of much of their voter base was also a huge turn-off which sent me away from them, particularly as a black man. I became a Socialist around 2006 after I became disillusioned with liberals and progressivism when I saw how, despite not being the same as conservatives/Republicans, libs were willing to go along with the spineless corporatist Capitol Hill Democrats; and how progressivism still ultimately doesn't solve the core issues at the heart of capitalism that leads to poverty and inequality. It simply proposes bandaids to mitigate the effects to provide an appearance of fairness and keep everyone from revolting (IMO). As long as the central "contradictions" (as Marx called them) of capitalism are never solved these issues will keep arising to the point of potential conflict over and over again throughout history and progressivism only temporarily quells it. After leaving progressivism I started off as a anti-authoritarian Marxist, then drifted towards Anarchism, now I've settled at Libertarian Socialism (I eventually concluded anarchism is basically impossible until the Human race itself evolves some more, we're not far enough removed from our caveman ancestors in behavior, habits and mindset). I'm Ignostic/Apatheist and a philosophical (and sometimes existential, depending on my mood) Nihilist. I think Libertarian Socialism is the system that allows for a maximum amount of freedom for human beings, but I have no delusions that society still needs some growing to do before this could work at a national level. I think it would be a gradual revolution over time. My general outlook is what TV Tropes calls "Anti-Nihilism". I think life may not have a purpose/point/meaning and if it does it's not obvious enough for us to realize it. If there is a higher power and we have a purpose it either doesn't want to explain it to us, is unaware of our existence or struggle. or wants us to figure it out ourselves. So, I decided that if life doesn't have an apparent purpose why not assign it one? Just like we take it upon ourselves to come up with political axioms, like the notion that Democracy is good and desirable for all people? That's part of why I like my political philosophy. It allows us to assign our own fates and control our own lives and work rather than working for bosses to make them rich in a rat race with no real goal or the ever-shifting goalpost that is infinitely increasing profits.
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  4866. ***** - "We have evidence for the universe" Yeah....and? That proves it's it's own cause...how exactly? We have proof that you and I exist. Doesn't mean we're our own cause. "But not for a god" 1) I'm not arguing for or against a "god". 2) There is "evidence" for a "God" (in the form of a potential creator or designer of some sort). But that evidence is mostly deductive or inductive/abductive and not empirical. It's also not conclusive. A lot of people get confused and mistake "evidence" for "conclusive, irrefutable proof". Any good scientist knows the 2 are not the same thing. "So to suggest that the universe was created through natural means, or that the universe has always existed in some form does not require the injection of some being" No, but it is a potential form of Special Pleading since it asks to make an assumption (an uncaused cause) we don't observe anywhere else in existence. Special Pleading does not require the injection of an entity. You can engage in Special Pleading without a mention of hypothetical persons or beings. To be honest whether one is a theist or an atheist both require the assumption of an uncaused cause at some point. Which is potentially special pleading. Unless you're a Buddhist or Jain. They realized this and attempt to dodge it by assuming the Universe is created and destroyed in an eternal cycle that had no beginning. Or they just don't speculate on beginnings at all and dismiss it as a pointless discussion (the Buddhist parable of the poisoned arrow). "Sorry to destroy you again" Sorry child. Your argument was self-refuting.
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  4888. ***** - "I have nothing to prove" You asserted that non-driver's license state-issue photo IDs are easy to get and that they're necessary to stop voter fraud. So, the burden is on you to back up what you said. So, again: 1) How do they get it? 2) What is the point of them getting it? Why should a photo ID be necessary? 3) What makes a photo ID more reliable than a Social Security number? 4) According to whom does having a photo ID make voter fraud easier to catch and where are all these examples of fraud occurring when they're not upheld? 5) If you're so concerned about fraud then why not have a system like Canada where they accept any ID (photo or not) or sign an affidavit if they don't have an ID? "the burden of proof is on you" To do what?  BTW, I've backed up my argument with copious sources: http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/mar/02/aclu-florida/shark-attacks-are-more-common-voter-fraud-florida/ http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/voter-fraud-real-rare/story?id=17213376 http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/voter-id-laws-charts-maps http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/01/opinion/the-dishonesty-of-voter-id-laws.html?_r=0 http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/11/13236464-new-database-of-us-voter-fraud-finds-no-evidence-that-photo-id-laws-are-needed?lite ;) Where's your evidence? Hm? "We are lucky to live in a country where picking up an ID card...Try living in another country." Most other Western democracies don't require photo ID to vote. ;) Thanks for showing you've never been outside the US.
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  4889. ***** - "How do they get it??  Calling their respective states DMV" YOU JUST SAID THEY ISSUE PHOTO IDS THAT AREN'T DRIVER'S LICENSES!! DO YOU EVEN REMEMBER THE BULLSHIT YOU SAY ANYMORE? Remember? "Almost the entirety of your counterargument can be VERY easily swept aside when you take into account that I was not exclusively referring to "driver's licenses" at any point. I specified the photo ID/license (meaning either-or) every time" --bosshenix So, again, people need to spend hundreds of dollars and several weeks on driving courses, driving exams, etc. just to be able to vote? "I happen to believe more in the human spirit, in the ability for people to get things done" I happen to believe the fact that none of this is necessary and voter fraud is not a major issue. Certainly one that does not require disallowing millions of people from voting in the process. "You are the type who will make every excuse in the book for people who are lazy" We could also require people to do backflips in other to vote. Why not? Don't be lazy! "Oh boo hoo... they might have to make a couple phone calls to find out where to go and/or how to get it mailed to them" How can you get a driver's ID mailed to you if you've never taken Driver's Ed, never had driving lessons and never passed the DMV's exams? "It's people like you and the slouches" Why should people have to pay several hundred dollars and take several exams in order to exercise their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to vote? That's right, there is no reason. Hence why Voter ID laws are being struck down across the nation. It's because you and people of your ilk can't answer these simple questions: 1) How do they get it? 2) What is the point of them getting it? Why should a photo ID be necessary? 3) What makes a photo ID more reliable than a Social Security number? 4) According to whom does having a photo ID make voter fraud easier to catch and where are all these examples of fraud occurring when they're not upheld? 5) If you're so concerned about fraud then why not have a system like Canada where they accept any ID (photo or not) or sign an affidavit if they don't have an ID? Do you give your parents the same bullshit excuses you give me?
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  4896. ***** - "Do you really think that people who cannot drive are not allowed a legal form of ID to get into nightclubs" They can't get a photo ID. However, not all nightclubs card you over a certain age. I should know, kid, given I've gotten into clubs all the time without photo ID. "Hint: they do exist" So, do a little research and get back to me and tell me the name of this mythical ID. Don't be lazy! Put in a minimum amount of effort. I believe in you. ;) "Do you realize the discrimination cases that would be levied against states that only allowed formal ID to capable drivers??" Formal ID =/= Picture ID You can have formal ID without it having a photo. Ex: Social Security card. What kind of discrimination would you be able to claim if you can't get a photo ID that is not a driver's license? lol "Formal, legitimate ID with photo verification is needed in the real world" Only for buying beer if you're under 18 or using credit cards over a certain amount at certain stores. Millions of poor people get along without photo ID just fine: http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2011/aug/10/marcia-fudge/rep-marcia-fudge-says-11-percent-eligible-voters-l/ According to the Brennan Center, as many as 11 percent of U.S. citizens — more than 21 million — did not have current government-issued photo identification.  This was based on a sample of 987 randomly selected voting-age citizens contacted by telephone. The pollster reported a margin of error of plus or minus 2 percentage points. Learn something about the world, kid.
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  4923. Skyler Thomas - "(Me) Arthur Jensen, Richard Lynn and J. Philippe Rushton seem to think so" 1) They're an extreme scientific minority. 2) What's your or their evidence? Really? Your evidence is a website called "judgybitch"? I see your personal website and I raise you actual scientific sources: http://www.gifted.uconn.edu/siegle/research/correlation/intelligence.pdf The APA states that, to date, intelligence has not been shown to be fully measured by IQ and that IQ has not been shown to be primarily genetic. While environmental explanations have not sufficiently explained all aspects of IQ and IQ changes over time genetic explanations are even less appealing. Also, I should note: 1) "Hereditary" does not mean "racial". Heritability occurs at a familial and regional level, not a continental level. 2) "Genetic" does not mean immutable. Or "racial". Further reading: http://www.unc.edu/~nielsen/soci850/odocs/apa_01.htm "African-American 19 scores have long averaged about 15 points below those of Whites, with correspondingly lower scores on academic achievement tests. In recent years the achievement-test gap has narrowed appreciably. It is possible that the IQ-score differential is narrowing as well, but this has not been clearly established. The cause of that differential is not known; it is apparently not due to any simple form of bias in the content or administration of the tests themselves. The Flynn effect shows that environmental factors can produce differences of at least this magnitude, but that effect is mysterious in its own right. Several culturally based explanations of the Black/ White IQ differential have been proposed; some are plausible, but so far none has been conclusively supported. There is even less empirical support for a genetic interpretation. In short, no adequate explanation of the differential between the IQ means of Blacks and Whites is presently available."
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  4924. Skyler Thomas - "That doesn't even make sense." What the hell do you think "breeding" is? No dog developed an ability to pull a sled naturally. That trait was fostered through eugenics: http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/canine-eugenics-and-breed-standards.html Has everything to do with Science. Nothing to do with your zany "Political Correctness" tinfoil hat conspiracy theories. "And it is also genunly humorous to watch a race of people (Blacks) who, in 10,000 years of recorded history, has invented nothing. Not a written language, weaved cloth, a calendar, a plow, a road, a bridge, a railway, a ship, a system of measurement, or even the wheel. Nor who has even cultivated a single crop or domesticated a single animal for his own use, and whose shelter he never progressed beyond the common mud hut" Complete horseshit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_africa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_Africa You know nothing about African history. Because you don't know anything about Africa doesn't mean nothing happened there. Northeast Africa was the second region in the world to have iron-smelting and the third place in the world to domesticate crops. The Haya people of Tanzania were actually the first people to create carbon steel in blast furnaces at over 2,300 degrees Fahrenheit. Over 1,900 years before the same technology appeared in Europe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haya_people Africa south of the Chad region in general skipped the Bronze Age and progressed directly into the Iron Age between 1500 BCE to 500 CE. "The African Negro with a cow-dung hairdo, a bone through his nose, and teeth filed down to sharp point" So your assessment of black people is based on the fashion sense of a few tribes? (most Africans don't have their teeth filed or wear a hairdo shaped like "cow dung) Do you have any idea how idiotic you sound? That's like saying "The Caucasian with the missing teeth, protruding belly, lazy gaze and inbred genes, represents his true essence". Making a scientific statement based on a stereotype based on a few people is beyond idiotic. "Thus the Negroes inability to handle the abstract concepts required in problem-solving and technological innovation make a mockery of outward appearances" Then why do "Negroes" make up a good number of Western inventors and innovators? Why do they thrive in industrialized societies? How did they build societies of their own? "Negro culture is not merely DIFFERENT from White culture; it is a LESS ADVANCED culture and, by practically any standard, INFERIOR" 1) There is no single "Negro culture" or "white culture". 2) Define "inferior" and "advanced". Do you mean technological? That's not a measure of personal quality and if you measure "superiority" that way that would mean during the European Dark Ages West and East Africans, North Africans, Arabs and Indians were "superior" to most Europeans. "And this inability is genetic in nature" What is the name of this gene "Negroes" supposedly lack and Europeans have? "rooted in the physical structure of the Negro brain." The structure of the "Negro" brain is almost indiscernible from the "Caucasian" brain.
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  4925. Skyler Thomas - "Modern biology illustrates clearly that Europeans -- White people -- descend from Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals, while Sub-Saharan Africans (Black people) descend NOT from Neanderthals or Cro-Magnons but from Homo-Erectus and Australopithecus" Again you show you have no clue what you're talking about. "Cro-Magnons" is simply an old term for the Homo sapiens who migrated out of Africa to Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon#Origin_of_the_Cro-Magnon_people They're not a separate species of Human from Africans. They ARE Africans who migrated to and continued to evolve in Europe. Cro-Magnons descend from Homo erectus. Only 1-4% of non-African DNA overlaps with Neanderthals. If there was any interbreeding is was likely only a few generations limited to a few groups: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#Genome Claiming that makes you a different species from Africans is like saying that a black person being 1% white means he's not actually black. "At about 15% of the overall genetic diversity in humans lying between populations, this value is more than sufficiently large for racial differentiation if the phylogeographic criteria are met" No they aren't. While you can trace certain telltale SNPs to certain regions of the world, overall a European man's DNA is more similar to a random African man's DNA than it is to another random European man. http://www.nature.com/index.html?file=/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1455.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewontin%27s_Fallacy#Response_to_Edwards
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  4945. ***** - "a lot of them don't directly prove that they cause lower wages" It's difficult to directly prove discrimination unless you catch an employer or manager on tape making bigoted comments. The way sociologists and scientists try to detect discrimination is when there is no other rational reason why a certain group seems to be disproportionately affected negatively the way they are. "so if a woman want's to earn more money than a man she has the ability to do so" In some cases, yes. In many cases, no. In some cases women earn less than men for the same jobs no matter how hard they work or how talented they are. Women are also often given lower starting salaries. How do you demand an equal starting salary without knowing what your coworkers are paid? "and still this does not factor in that younger unmarried women are making more money than men" 1) That's only 1 segment of women and only applies in some cities. 2) The amount they make more than men is not much, only 8% more. 3) That stat is as misleading as that 77 cent stat. That demographic of women only earns more when you look across industries. Not when you compare the same jobs. "if nothing else its discrimination against mothers" Very true. Paying mothers less actually hurts families since mothers have children to support. It would actually make sense if fathers and mothers were given a pay raise for the first couple of years after having a child. "and still all statistics point to the wage-gap disappearing" Yes, but it's taking a fairly long time. While that gap is closing it's doing so because Labor Movements and Social Movements have been pushing it to through equal pay legislation. It didn't so on its own or out of the goodness of employers' hearts. Believe you me, most employers will find any excuse they can to pay someone less if they can get away with it. "that said there should ofcourse be a law that makes it illegal to wage-discriminate based on gender, i would expand it even to race, sexuality, religion, etc" There already are many of those. IMHO what needs to happen is the govt needs to add teeth to these laws and enforce them better. Independent watchdog groups also need to track these cases more closely. Maybe more class-action lawsuits.
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  4948. Patrick McGinnes - "You're looking at this way too...strictly" To be honest I don't know what you mean there. "The point I'm trying to make is that prayer doesn't do anything. It's a way of convincing yourself you've done something when you've done nothing" Most religious people would disagree with you. So, they don't believe they are doing nothing. That's why in their minds it's not trying to convince themselves of anything since they believe it could potentially have an effect. Sure there are people who honestly feel the same way as that guy who called that show, but given he's someone who is no longer religious that's probably not a good example. That would be like asking a former atheist-turned-Christian what atheists think like. His views aren't going to be the most unbiased. Not arguing whether or not prayer works, just saying you're looking at things from the perspective of someone who doesn't believe prayer works. They look at it from a different perspective (many/most of them). "is that it is better to do something, ANYTHING that won't add fuel to the problem, than to just say you'll pray, and hope that the problem goes away" Sure, but people aren't always able to help you. When they can't, you're going to get pretty much the same response whether the person is religious or not. A religious person might say "I'll pray for you". A non-religious person might just say "Well that sucks. Sorry to hear that." Basically the same thing (if you don't believe prayer works). BTW, that was a funny encounter at work. I wish religious and non-religious people could get along like that more online like they do in real life. :(
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  4959. wiccaantje - "There are NO influential MRA's" Never heard of Warren Ferrell? "but how much good does that do when the movement can't do anything?" Can't do anything? No one is stopping the movement from doing anything. Nothing is stopping MRAs from donating money or using their expertise to set up shelters for abused and battered men, or male rape victims, or male child molestation/incest victims, etc. The fact is that many are just content to complain and bitch about women and claim women are oppressing them while not actually doing shit to help these men out they claim are victims. As many problems as the Feminist movement has at least they put their money where their mouth is and actually get off their arses and help out women. As you can probably tell that's one of my main issues with the MRA movement - it has WAY TOO MANY members who are just jilted/bitter single "Nice Guys"/Love Shy-types and PUAs rather than actual intellectuals and social activists like Warren Ferrell who are actually about helping people rather than unloading their personal angst towards the opposite sex. Or just sitting around denying that women have any problems. Just like as many spoiled American princesses, daddy's money girls and angry women who screwed with shitty dudes the Feminist movement has it still has enough leaders and shakers who are actually trying to help women to keep it from becoming too languid. There are actually male shelters and rape/incest/abuse networks. However, often they end up having to distance themselves from the MRA movement because of the extreme loudmouths and misogynists in the bunch. Just like some organizations distance themselves from certain more misandrist-type Feminist organizations. It would be nice if the MRM had more Warren Ferrells and less bratty college-age guys who just want to whine about being single. Sorry to go off on a rant there. XD As someone who considers themself both a Feminist and a Masculist (MRA) I just get so tired sometimes of how these potentially relevant movements turn into a joke because of a bunch of 15-32 year olds who use the movements as personal therapy to work out their deep-seated issues they should be consulting a therapist for instead of making it the centerpiece of a social movement. "Unfortunatly (we find it sad to) the most radical and extreme outliers of the movement seem to be making the political agenda. Whenever I say I'm an anti-feminist I need to split it up. Feminism the ideology, wich is good even if I think they shouldn't specify so much and feminism the political movement. What feminism the political movement does is nowhere near equality and then there are people going 'they are not-real-feminists', kinda like you, but concider they are making real changes in real life that influence me and my boyfriend, they seem more real then ideology feminism" Agreed. But, I have to the MRM is in a similar funk right now as a political movement. Often I'll see MRAs invest way more energy into claiming most female rape allegations are false, or trying to argue that biological fathers should be able to opt out of child support, or accusing women of being "bad boy-loving sluts" for not feeling obligated to give sex to "nice guys", or trying to defend discrimination against females. Rarely do I see them doing things like filing class-action suits to challenge bias in family court. Or pushing for workplaces to accommodate paid Paternity Leave. "It's not like the US is accepting of the organisation. The BBC can't outlaw the MRM but they can influence a lot of people's minds. People usually will have never heard about the MRM or think badly of it because of feminist propaganda." To be honest, sadly, I think a lot of the negative press for both MRAs and Feminists comes from the behavior of too many in their own ranks. Not propaganda from the other side.
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  4960. wiccaantje - Warren Ferrell has published several books and studies that have been generally positively received by many academics and others in the field of sociology and economics. Most of his books deal with Men's Rights issues and issues of discrimination or double standards men face in the West. He's a former feminist-turned-MRA. "cough feminists cough" What about Feminists? Do tell how Feminists are preventing you and other MRAs from putting your money together to form more men's shelters, or file class-action lawsuits against double standards in the family court system? Or pushing for Paternity Leave in the work place? How are they stopping men from spending money or organizing? "Maybe you've missed the post above but I'm from Belgium and there is nothing out feminists do besides blocking everything from MRA's and whine." I'm from the US. Admittedly I don't know much as much about gender issues in Belgium but what you sounds like a hyperbolic exaggeration. Perhaps you could accuse them of "whining" (which is a personal opinion, many people accuse MRAs of also "whining") but how do they "block" MRAs? "Agreed, but because I don't concider them influential at all, I don't see them as a threat" I didn't say MRAs are a "threat" but neither are Feminists. Both groups mostly just whine more than anything. Not really dangerous per se. "So why should I talk about them?" The same reason people talk about online Feminists - both groups make a lot of noise and cause a lot of tension and politicized arguments and strife while not truly doing much. "I hope you don't think I'm an MRA. Same mistakes as feminism." I hesitantly mention that I'm aligned with both. I say hesitantly because they've both become a great embarrassment overall as only a minority of the members in either movement do much worthwhile IMO. "since then I come across it a lot and it's always from the feminist side" A lot of the people who complain about MRAs are not Feminists themselves. Just like a lot of the people who complain about Feminists are not MRAs. A lot of people who complain about these groups don't consider themselves either.
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  4961. Dm Gray - "Flip your logic. Men in positions of power is proof of a vast conspiracy of the patriarchy holding women down." Straw Man Argument.  My argument is that cronyism, nepotism and discrimination exist and are still rampant in our system. Human beings what they are (Human), they are corruptible and susceptible to biases, prejudices, etc. Men have ruled society since the Bronze Age and things didn't suddenly change overnight at one point. America has traditionally been ruled by white men, and even though significant gains were made during the Civil Rights Era and Women's Rights Era, it's still an uphill battle against a systemic enclave where those related to people in old power structure, or who look more like those from power structure, generally have an easier time getting in and climbing the ladder. The same way it'd be harder for a everyday white man to climb the corporate ladder in Nigeria or China or an atheist to climb the ladder in an institution largely filled with the religious. Humans tend to enclave with those they consider part of their "group" compared to incoming "outsiders". "Women in positions of power is evidence of progress." There are many women in positions of power who got there due to cronyism, nepotism, etc. However, unlike males, there is no Female power structure in the US. Just as there is no Black power structure. Or Hispanic power structure. Or Atheist power structure. "There is also alwaysa perfectly rational reason for the "inequality" which is never sexism" Never sexism? That's a perfectly ridiculous argument. Now you're claiming that whole demographics of the American public (politicians, businessmen, policy-makers, employers, etc.) are free from the same human failings the rest of us are susceptible to. That's like claiming there is no racism, homophobia, classism, ageism or religious discrimination among them. You're basically making them out to be Enlightened Beings above the failings of us mortals. "the "old boys club" is about socialising" The Old Boys Club is a WASP male heterosexual power structure socioeconomic structure. Usually based around Old Money (like the Bush Family, the First Families of the Eastern Coast, Boston Brahmins, etc.). It's a network of cronyism and nepotism dealing with wealth, money, opportunity and political legacies and dynasties: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_boy_network At least in the US. There are other "old boy networks" in other countries based around different majority or powerful demographics. "it's why men's clubs are attacked so much, whereas women's groups are promoted heavily" If by women's groups you mean groups like N.O.W., N.O.W. has nowhere near as much power as, say, the Chamber of Commerce. Or the Carlyle Group. Or the Bilderberg Group. It's like comparing the NAACP to country clubs for old rich white millionaire property moguls. Yes, the NAACP and NOW are worthy of their own criticism, but comparing them things like the Chamber of Commerce or super-PACs or the Koch Brothers is a false equivalence. "How many working class men are part of the old boys club?" Not many. But it tends to be easier for men (especially white males) to move up into that group than females or minorities.  "It's just not sexism or even bigotry in any way, it's simply the way the world works. Imperfect)" Well if you feel that way, then you should stop complaining about double standards that you feel favor females. That's simply the way works, right?  "The contents of the underwear of the people in charge doesn't matter, only their accountability" Yet here you are complaining about women's groups and women in power. Hypocritical much? "the tiny fraction of people that are in these genuinely powerful roles should not matter" What matters is when people's pay, opportunities and rights are being affected by those in powers. That's what Progressivism is about - equal opportunity for all. You're basically advocating everybody just shut up and accept the status quo and don't fight for equal opportunity or rights. "a 50/50 split would reflect unfair advantages given to women"" Yet a 90/10 or 80/20 split with more men doesn't reflect unfair advantages given to men? I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense. Alright, prove that a 50/50 split would be the result of "unfair advantages' given to women and prove more men being in charge is the natural result of meritocracy.  "You're right that there should be no barrier, but there is no barrier......Sexism exists" You contradicted yourself. If sexism is still a widely-existing issue it's bound to cause barriers.  "These "poor unfortunate women" that "cant get promoted to CEO" are still in a social class above the majority of people." Now we totally agree. "Save your empathy for people that deserve it, because the rich and powerful aint it." I'm not empathizing those people. I pointed that out to prove it's still overall a Man's World. Who run the world? 80-90% of those people are men. Thus it's still a "Man's World". If 80-90% of those people were women it'd be a "Woman's World".
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  4962. Dm Gray - "You have made comments that tell me you are not unaware of the nuance" Seriously? This was pretty damned nuanced: "My argument is that cronyism, nepotism and discrimination exist and are still rampant in our system. Human beings what they are (Human), they are corruptible and susceptible to biases, prejudices, etc. Men have ruled society since the Bronze Age and things didn't suddenly change overnight at one point. America has traditionally been ruled by white men, and even though significant gains were made during the Civil Rights Era and Women's Rights Era, it's still an uphill battle against a systemic enclave where those related to people in old power structure, or who look more like those from power structure, generally have an easier time getting in and climbing the ladder. The same way it'd be harder for a everyday white man to climb the corporate ladder in Nigeria or China or an atheist to climb the ladder in an institution largely filled with the religious." --A86 It wasn't just some simplistic "OMG men and YT are evil devils!" "Lack of access isn't inherently sexist. It's unfair, sure. Just not sexism. This is not contradictory." Never claimed it was. What I said was that sexism does exist and is still a substantial factor in the workplace and other areas of society. I also pointed out that the fact 90% of the people who run the country are men isn't due entirely to non-sexist reasons. "If a black guy doesn't know anyone at a company, but some white guys do, the white guys will have an advantage" Very true. However, in our society even black guys who know people often still have a harder time than white guys who know people. This has been proven time and again. Just like if you're a very pleasant, friendly and moral atheist you're likely to be perceived and trusted less than a very pleasant, friendly and moral Christian.  "If a woman uses her sexuality for personal gain (which happens) it is not sexism." It is sexist that men often can't by using the same tactics. Well....this is largely because most people in positions of power to promote you are heterosexual men. "A man taking advantage of an "old boys network" is all manner of unsavoury, but it is also not sexism." It can be and sometimes is both. That's not a hard concept. It's like saying "It's not racist, just stupid". Well, something can be both racist and stupid. Sometimes the Good Ol Boy network is just unsavory, sometimes it is unsavory and involves sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. "Also, pointing out that your rhetoric about men in power is bullshit doesn't make my a hypocrite" 1) It's not bullshit because it's a simple fact the overwhelming majority of people in power are men. And in the US WASP heterosexual men for the most part. Often they give favor to people in that demographic over outsiders. 2) What I accused you of hypocrisy over was this comment: "The contents of the underwear of the people in charge doesn't matter, only their accountability" --Dm Gray Because you also said this: "the "old boys club" is about socialising, it's why men's clubs are attacked so much, whereas women's groups are promoted heavily. Double standards....a 50/50 split would reflect unfair advantages given to women" --Dm Gray Contradicts your "the contents of the people in charge doesn't matter" spiel. I think you've WAAAY oversimplified and dumbed-down my arguments.
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  4963. Dm Gray - "As you did to mine, the difference is you provided nuance, and then discarded it" No I didn't. A nuance does not mean "sexism does not exist". It would be as silly as saying that racism does not exist. My nuance was, basically, "Yes, many disparities in society are not due to sexism or racism. But some are and sexism and racism do play a role among other factors". I think you didn't understand what my nuance was to begin with.  "All the other stuff is secondary to you, whereas it is primary to me" You're quite the presumptuous one, aren't you? Presuming to know what I believe? What is primary or secondary depends on the individual, IMO. For some people their bigotry against certain groups rules them or is their most pressing weakness. For others it is secondary. "but you seem to believe in some invisible conspiracy to keep women down" Nice Straw Man Argument. No "invisible conspiracy". It's human nature. The same reason "White Privilege" exists (do you also refer to this as an "invisible conspiracy"?): White Males are the dominant group in the West. Groups in power often (consciously or unconsciously) usually network with other people from that group, and give favor (consciously or unconsciously) to other members of that group compared to outsiders. The ruling group are WASP heterosexual men with money. Therefore, they tend to network mostly with other WASP heterosexual men with money as opposed to minorities, women, non-Christians, atheists, gays and the poor (or people below upper middle class). Now, explain, how is this (very much empirically-supported, I might add) view "unreasonable"? It's unreasonable to suggest that people in power largely aren't bleeding-heart social liberals who treat women and minorities exactly the same as they treat men and whites? You appear (at least it appears to me) to be suggesting that groups in power are either magically free of the same prejudices that exist among the rest of us, or that on average these people are more enlightened than the average public and less subject to these prejudices. I disagree because I see no good evidence of this. Refer to Hiring Discrimination experiments. 
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  4964. Dm Gray - "White females are ythe most protected class of person there is in the west." Disagree. Overall, white males are the most protected class of person there is in the West. The only place this changes is in divorce court and family court (and sometimes criminal court, though not out of some kind of benefit for females, but out of old sexist notions that women lack the same agency as men or that women are incapable of the same violence or evil that men are).  "But that doesn't fit into your "white privilege" world view which focuses entirely on the fact a TINY minority of white men enjoy powerful positions." By that statement it's obvious you don't know what "White Privilege" means. Allow me to give you a Sociology crash course lesson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege White Privilege doesn't just refer to the tiny cadre of elite white men. It refers to a system which, as a whole, confers more benefits, systemic advantages and positive benefits of the doubt to white people compared to minorities. In this context "privilege" doesn't mean being wealthy. Here are some common, everyday examples of "White Privilege" benefits: http://amptoons.com/blog/files/mcintosh.html Likewise there is also (maybe arguably to a lesser extent) "Male Privilege" which affects males of all races. Overall black males have some socioeconomic privileges over black females, sometimes (more rarely) even over white females. When we think of issues dealing with the black community, we often think of black males as victims (Trayvon Martin, Jordan Davis, Troy Davis, etc.) while we think of black females as lazy leeches who need to get their proverbial s**t together (welfare queens and "ratchets" or "hoodrats"): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glennisha-morgan/the-emasculation-of-black_b_3141651.html A good example of black sexism being evident in a lot of Rap music. "The president is black, therefore all black men are privileged" That's not at all how racial or gender privilege works. A black man being President does not change how black men are often treated by society, the job world, the police or politicians in general. Just like a few of the rich being nonwhite doesn't change how the average nonwhite person is treated compared to the average white person. "What is often described as privilege for the majority of whites amount to NOT being directly discriminated against." THAT IS A PRIVILEGE. Not being directly discriminated against while others are is a privilege. If in a concentration camp water is generally given out scarcely, while people with blue or green shirts are usually specifically denied water at certain times of day, the people without blue or green shirts have a type of privilege compared to the blue and greenshirts. "Not being stopped and frisked is not a privilege" Tell that to the hundreds or thousands of black people per year who end up as police brutalities thanks to being stopped and frisked, or thrown in jail for frivolous reasons at a higher rate than white people due to it. That's why the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. Obviously it is a problem. "so why the fuck would I be okay with all white people being responsible for a few white people holding positions of power?" White Privilege is an assessment of the advantages, assumptions, preferences, attitudes and comforts afforded to white people on average that are not afforded to other people. It's not holding white people responsible for the actions of Sheldon Adelsons and Koch Brothers of the world. It's an assessment that if a black guy and a white guy cuss out a cop, on average the black guy will get a worse punishment, is more likely to get shot and society tends to judge him more harshly than it judge the white guy. "Fact is, you can always cherry pick data to support a hypothesis." Wouldn't that also be true of your own hypothesis? "men face disproportionate disadvantages" "It's disgusting to see, as a true egalitarian" If you turn a blind eye to scales or scopes of discrimination and make False Equivalences you are NOT a true Egalitarian. Pretending racism is not a major problem, or that people all suffer equally disallows you from being able to adjust to or address discriminations, barriers and prejudice that affect groups disproportionately compared to others. It's what Bill Maher and some others call "Colorblind Racism": http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/colorblind/201112/colorblind-ideology-is-form-racism Actually, even by your own twisted logic you aren't a "true egalitarian" since you said this: "White females are ythe most protected class of person there is in the west." --Dm Gray According to you if you contend one group has advantages over another you're holding the members accountable for the actions of a powerful few, and that's a form of racism or discrimination.  If you can say "white females are the most protected class of person there is in the West", then you should be able to understand the logic why saying "white men are the most privileged class of person there is in the West" is not a form of racism. Obviously you yourself do not even believe all groups suffer equally or face the same amount of hurdles and limitations. 
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  4966. Dm Gray - "What I'm saying is that there are disadvantaged white people (quite a lot of them) and they should not be dismissed or marginalised because "white privilege" And I agree 100%. But I don't feel that claiming poor non-Hispanic whites are usually not quite as bad off as poor blacks and poor Hispanics is marginalizing or dismissing their disadvantages or suffering. Just like I don't think saying that a poor black man with no kids working at Home Depot isn't quite as bad off as a single black lesbian mom with 3 kids on welfare is dismissive of the guy. "It boils down to how much weight you give "not being harassed by the police as much" Well, for the black community it has very significant weight given that around 1 in 5 black men will end up in the prison system at some point in their life (usually for something minor like fighting, or something that shouldn't even be a felony, like drug possession), and that's a major contributor to black unemployment rates (an arrest records hurts job opportunities), unavailable black fathers, black poverty rates, black ineligibility to vote and black AIDS/HIV rates. It also contributes to lots of cases of police brutality and false arrests. "White skin doesn't guarantee you a job, or even being shortlisted." Very true, but in general it gives you a bit of a boost over minority (particular black and Hispanic) competition. "It doesn't guarantee that the police will not harass you" Agreed, but it makes it less likely overall. We're talking about degrees with White Privilege. Not guarantees. White Privilege does not mean "White people have no real problems or hardships". "should not require placing a burden of guilt or privilege on EVERY white person." If you feel any pressure of guilt that's your own conscience reacting to the situation. No one is trying to make you feel that way. If you feel any guilt it's because you realize something's wrong and you feel bad because you know it's not right or you feel powerless to stop it. White Privilege is not about a burden of guilt. It's an acknowledge that if you're a white person you don't face the same barriers and hardships other people face in this country. If you get pulled over rarely will ever be because you're white. If you have a hard time getting a job it's usually not because you're white. For minorities, sometimes those hardships are partly because of those things (or more rarely entirely because of, like black people driving nice cars being stopped). "White people not being imprisoned as often for bullshit reasons" A privilege. A "privilege" means an advantage not afforded to others: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/privilege sometimes unearned. If white people are not being imprisoned as often for bullshit because of their skin color that's an advantage (privilege). 
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  5010. ***** - "Thanks for the link.  As I thought, it includes SS benefits." Where does it say that? SS benefits are for the elderly. There are SSI benefits for the disabled, but that's different from SS. These deal with govt benefits for the POOR. "Most, certainly not all of SS benefits are paid for via taxes" What do you think pays for welfare? It's paid for by taxes. It isn't direct debited. "I wouldn't consider that welfare since I see it go out of my check" It's the same concept. Your FICA taxes are not put in a lockbox under your name and held for 40 years, your FICA taxes pays for the SS for people who are currently retired and no longer earning income. Likewise, when you retire your SS will be paid by young and middle-aged people who are still working. It's not paid out of a vault with your name on where they stored your FICA payments all those years. Likewise, welfare programs are paid for by federal and state income taxes. Most people on welfare (around 70%) are still working themselves, and have to pay taxes while working. So most people on welfare are also paying into the system they're taking from. Even the ones who aren't working will have to pay taxes when they do start working (unless you think people on welfare are unemployed for their entire lives). "Actually that is a Ponzi scheme" A Ponzi scheme is a pyramid/multi-level marketing scheme where people are told they can get rich if they invest in a particular product or company as more members join and invest. Who is told that welfare will make them wealthy? And who gets rich as more people get on welfare? "I could invest my money much better than the government could" 1) Welfare is not a money-making investment. It's an investment in labor to make sure they aren't homeless until they get back on their feet. It's not a profit scheme like venture capitalism or investing in the stock market. It's a social expenditure, like cleaning up garbage and pollution, or helping the homeless. 2) The average American is thousands of dollars in credit debt and tens of millions of Americans lost money in the Housing Bubble. It certainly doesn't appear most Americans invest money better than the govt. "Welfare is something that you have not worked for" 1) You don't directly work for SS either. It's paid for by people who are still working. The first generation of SS recipients didn't pay into it since they didn't pay FICA before retiring. 2) Most people on welfare are employed. 3) Even if they're not currently employed they will be eventually, which then they will have to pay back into the system when they pay taxes. It's extremely rare for someone on welfare to never work.
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  5012. ***** - "Come on now, if government isn't a pyramid or multi-layered scheme, I am not sure what is" Technically the private sector is also one since it's about making money, mostly for the people at the top. XD That doesn't mean everything that comes out of the private sector is a pyramid scheme. Likewise it doesn't mean everything that comes out of the govt is a Ponzi scheme. Most people in the govt don't get very rich, especially compared to people in the private sector. The government is more comparable to an enforcement/protection racket while the private sector is more comparable to a money-making racket. "I said I do" You'd have enough money to live off of comfortably for 5-30 years after retiring without govt programs? I have doubts. Especially as costs of living continue to increase. "As long as people are babied along" It has nothing to do with babying. The current system works much better than the entirely private system of the 19th century did. Back then people had to move in with their adult children or grandchildren when they retired and rely on community charity. Our system now heavily reduces that. Though I broadly agree with your second paragraph about us being more responsible with our money. "Yet here we are" Yes, here we are. Better off overall than generations from before the New Deal. The New Deal helped turn America into a middle-class society. "The people I have a problem with are the people who LIVE off the system and take advantage of it." Agree with you there 100%.
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  5013. ***** - "if I chose not to pay taxes, they will arrest me" Because you're already using public land and services. Not paying taxes would be like sitting in a store eating a candy bar and then refusing to pay the clerk. Just by sitting on American land you're already using some public resources and you're being protected by American public services like the police, firefighters, military, etc. EMTs are obligated to help you if you fall out and the police can't opt to let you get killed. Firefighters also can't refuse to put out your house. "Government workers as a whole have it much better than private sector employees when you factor in benefits and retirement." That's actually a popular myth: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/03/AR2010120303160.html http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/08/dont-buy-the-myth-that-government-workers-are-overpaid/61444/ "Eh, I wouldn't say we are better off because of the New Deal. We became a better nation oddly enough because of the war." 1) The New Deal had already been working for years before WWII started. The New Deal started paying off in 1935. 2) Trying to cop out and attribute the benefits to the war is ironic because WWII was yet another example of HUGE INCREASES IN GOVT SPENDING. During WWII govt spending increased EVEN MORE and FDR hiked the top federal marginal income tax rate to nearly 100% for a few years. WWII involved even higher taxes and more government expenditures than the New Deal. Lol 3) New Deal programs continued to create a stable middle-class and increase wages and productivity for decades after WWII ended. It lasted up until the Reagan Era. "Women went to work and were liberated, we produced more" Largely became of New Deal work programs, starting years before WWII. And because of Feminism and the Women's Lib movement after the War. "Giving out money freely never progresses a society" The New Deal was not giving out money freely. The govt expected to recoup that money (which they did) as income rose and citizens paid more in tax revenue. Increased tax revenues, private production and exports paid back most of the New Deal over the following decade. "When my Mama became sick, it was not a question what would happen. I would take care of her. I would not be able to live with myself if she went to a Nursing Home. That is one area where I think countries like China have it right. In my opinion, you should take care of your parents. That is just my opinion though. I do understand that it is not possible in all cases." I agree entirely. But you have to realize that's a drain on the finances and productivity of working people. Having a system where retired people can be more independent, and not have to rely on handouts from the younger generations, raises worker productivity and can increase quality of life for the elderly.
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  5015. ***** - Actually, some of the New Deal did stop after the Great Depression and WWII ended. Some of the programs continued. "While I will say that we could cut spending in Defense, Defense is the PRIMARY responsibility of the Federal Government" The govt doesn't have a primary responsibility other than to uphold the law. All other functions are secondary. "Social Security, Food Stamps,etc is not the primary responsibility of the Federal Government" True, but neither are a bunch of other programs and services it performs. Like NASA, business subsidies, tax breaks, the CIA, etc. "if the EBT system goes down for a couple of hours you have thugs rioting in Walmart for free crap" I don't believe it's that bad. EBT has been cut several times over the past 20 years, and sometimes gone down, and there was no mass chaos. But yes, there are waaay too many slugs and leeches who scam the system or try to utilize the system when technically they should not even be eligible. Like able-bodied men who are not eligible for welfare but leech off their girlfriend's welfare checks. "Now where are we with the security of Social Security?" We can thank our Congress (and Executive Branch) for the future issues with SS thanks to them using the FICA revenue as a slush fund to fund expensive overseas misadventures, bailouts, etc. "Paying taxes on welfare benefits does not mean you are paying taxes" Yes you are if you are employed, which most people on welfare are. Once the unemployed ones become employed they have to start paying the federal income tax. "That means that someone gave you the money that you are spending and they are paying the taxes" True, but the same can be said about a loan or subsidy. A loan money isn't really money you've earned, it's money someone gives you in the expectation you'll pay it back eventually. That's similar to how welfare programs work. "Beyond that, it only pays in the private sector if you have an advanced degree. Otherwise, go public!!!!" I agree, but this is largely because the public sector has largely stayed unionized and kept their benefits while the private sector allowed itself to become de-unionized and deregulated. Unsurprisingly private employers over the years have done away with more and more benefits in the private sector. "I appreciate the civil debate.  It is very nice" No prob! Nice to have a civil debate with you too! Nice to be able to have a pleasant conversation (even if you don't always agree) on YouTube instead of typical flame war. XD
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  5047. moyga - I think it's because the word "evil" usually implies to people something morally worse than just "wrong". To most people it signifies knowing something is morally wrong yet doing it anyway and feeling no remorse about it. Or even enjoying it.  I don't think it has much to do with mysticism. I think maybe you're projecting what you assume others think or are projecting the feelings of religious fundies you knew growing up onto the general public "the notion of evil tends to be tied up in fictional ideas about pure villainy that depend on the assumption that the libertarian conception of free will exists" 1) I don't know if most people even know what "Libertarianism" (in the sense of will philosophy) even is. 2) "Pure villainy" is not a byproduct of libertarianism. That's actually a determinist concept. If you believe someone is "born evil" that's a belief in predestination/determinism since you believe the person is incapable of changing. The concept of "bad seed" actually originates from Calvinism. Calvinism explicitly does not believe in free will. They believe free will is incompatible with an omnipotent God. It's religious Determinist Incompatibilism. The belief that evil is illusory partially originates from the Tabla Rasa philosophy, which is a secular/non-religious free will philosophy. (free will =/= mystic and determinism =/= materialist). 3) Determinism is just a philosophy, just like Libertarianism. None of them have been scientifically reified to the point of being indisputable. "No one is that kind of evil, no one makes a completely free choice out of nothingness to be a bad person" Agreed, but that's hardly the only definition of "evil": http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/evil Nothing in the definition states it has to be a choice out of nothingness or no motive. I think even most modern religious people agree that evil usually has a motive or cause.
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  5050. moyga - "So you don't think the term evil has a strong connotation of, or association with, supernatural beliefs?" If we're speaking in the context of religious circles, yes. If we're speaking in the context of secular intellectual or scientific circles, not really. Psychologists usually don't mean the same thing when they talk about "evil" that Pat Robertson or Fred Phelps would be talking about. "but perhaps you were lucky in where you grew up, the majority of people in the world do have a lot of supernatural beliefs, I'd say the way of thinking I was talking about is extremely common all over the world" My family is actually pretty religious. My parents are more religiously moderate (though they went through a Fundy phase a few years ago). Growing up most peers outside of the home who used terms like "evil" weren't particularly religious. Kids often aren't. lol I've also had teachers and college professors use the term with no indication of a religious subtext. Including a college professor who I know for a fact is an atheist and a Marxist. But I definitely agree there are many people out there who by "evil" believe "evilness" is something external. Like a Devil figure. There are many religious people, however, who don't. And it goes to say most secular and non-religious people don't believe evil is external. "people who choose to be horrible people out of nothingness in the way libertarians believe people do" I don't think that's what Libertarians believe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism_(metaphysics) Most Libertarians believe people choose to be evil because they've made a decision it's what they want to do. Not that their evilness doesn't have a motive or influences. They just believe people can freely choose to rise above those motives and influences and choose not to. Similar to how you can hear a conversation next to you but block it out by not listening to it. "is a far less common view of pure villainy because people generally tend to view individuals who are more obviously determined to do bad things as less morally responsible for their actions and therefore less 'evil'." 1) That's a form of Determinism. The less you believe someone is in control of their actions the more of a Determinist you are. A complete Libertarian would believe everyone is 100% responsible for all their actions. 2) To be honest I haven't really heard of many people who have that view of evil. Most people who condemn people for being "evil" condemn them because they believe the person made a conscious decision to be evil, so they view it as a moral failing rather than a psychological weakness.  "You can see this by the fact that we generally treat and think about criminals who have mental illnesses very differently to those who don't." Well that's different when you introduce mental illness into the equation. With mental illness we generally believe that the person is not in their right mind because of something partly beyond their control (whatever is wrong with their brain chemistry or neural wiring), thus may not truly be "evil" so much as they are delusional, confused or just "insane". With criminals who are not mentally ill most people believe they're making a conscious decision to do bad things when they could have chosen not to. Actually, the belief that mentally ill people can't help themselves is more in the vein of determinism than libertarianism. XD "Whether determinism is true doesn't really matter" If determinism makes a positive claim, it does matter. If determinism isn't making a positive claim, then you are correct that it doesn't. "because it is a view which is positing that something exists which has never been observed or proven" Are you referring to "Free Will"? Even though "Free Will" has not been "proven" it has arguably been observed. Likewise, Determinism also posits a theory (that people do not have choice and are a slave to conditions) that has not been proven: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will To date there isn't a scientific consensus on either idea.
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  5051. moyga - Actually there is more than one Libertarian conception of "Free Will": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism_(metaphysics)#Overview "We have never observed this kind of free will" We've never conclusively observed any of the 4 main positions (Libertarianism, Determinism, Hard Indeterminism and Compatibilism). It's a matter of what you think the data we have so indicates will likely turn out to be true. "we necessarily perform actions based on our mental characteristics (like what we believe, desire, find rational and compelling and so on)" Sure, but we can also choose to act against these. Sometimes I choose to do things that are irrational or serve no purpose because I feel like it or it feels right/fun/whatever at the time.  "That means that we at some point, at some level, had to have started with mental characteristics we did not choose" Agreed. Personally I fall somewhere between Compatibilism and Hard Indeterminism. However, I'm sure a Libertarian could argue that early in our life development we can unconsciously take on certain attributes that we carry with us. They'd probably point to the fact that aspects of our mental characteristics can change over time. "most people tend to view individuals who they perceive as being more determined to do bad things as less morally responsible and less evil" I've never really seen such people. Most people condemn serial killers as totally responsible for their own behavior unless they were mentally insane. Most people who try to argue that the killers aren't responsible for their behavior get shouted down as making excuses for them. Take a look at YouTube comment sections on videos of serial killers. "Thus, most peoples idea of the worst kind of person, or a 'pure villain' is someone who was as undetermined as possible" Are you saying they view the worst kind of villain as someone who freely chose to be evil for no good or rational reason? If so then I'd probably largely agree that's what a lot of people think. I don't really see how it jibed with your earlier stipulation though. They view people who chose to bad things as being more morally responsible while they feel that people who are forced into doing bad things against their will (like, say, at gun-point) as being less morally responsible.  "even if you could prove determinism was false it wouldn't prove libertarianism, not even close." If you proved Determinism false the only other option would be Hard Indeterminism since only 2 views are seen as coherent if Determinism is false: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/DeterminismXFreeWill.svg
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  5052. moyga - Regarding the first part of your post I see what you meant now. "You would still be making that choice based on your mental characteristics." Is spontaneity a mental characteristic? Not so sure. What I'm referring to is making a decision to do things that are out-of-character for me, things I wouldn't normally do, things that don't feel right (or normally wouldn't), or things I wouldn't regularly agree with. "I think you'll find that the idea of being able to make choices that aren't determined by anything outside of your control doesn't actually make sense" I agree that things outside of one's control certainly impact or influence our decisions. But determine? Don't really agree with that. If that were so then it would be nonsensical to ask or try to get people to change (since their choices are already pre-determined) or to hold people accountable for their actions. Trying to get anyone to change their mind would be fruitless since nothing can change it without changing their physical brain or other factors. "that compatibilists define free will in a different way to the classic definition I've been referring to that most libertarians hold" I'm aware, since I find Compatibilism to be more realistic than Libertarianism. "they simply call themselves compatibilists because they contend that we can reconceptualise free will in a useful and rational way even if determinism is true" True. Though they also often tend to disagree with the classical definition of determinism from the Enlightenment Age and Age of Classical Mechanics (the "Man-Machine" concept) as well. "I feel like you're not understanding what I am trying to say on this specific point because your responses are just agreeing with what I'm saying" Perhaps so. I think something about your or my wording or phrasing may have caused a miscommunication somewhere. "Earlier, you stated that most people view a pure villain as someone who is entirely determined to do bad things (referring to Calvinism) did you not? or did I misread that?" I referenced Calvinism a while back as an example of a determinist worldview (though a religious one). I was saying from my experience many people seem to view the worst kind of villain as someone who has Libertarian-style free will and uses it to senselessly choose to be evil. However, a lot of religious people also seem to view the worst kind of villain as something is pure evil and is incapable of changing (like some Christian Fundamentalists assume about "the Devil")..... ....Hmm....thinking about it that way I guess public opinions might be more varied than I initially thought about. "As I have said, proving indeterminism would not prove that the libertarian conception of free will exists" True, but if Determinism is false then Libertarianism and Hard Indeterminism seem like the logical only 2 options left since the other 2 options (Compatibilism and Determinism) rely on Determinism being true. "Even more academic sources like the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy are a bit behind the ball right now because the area is moving quite quickly" The area moves very quickly, but overall there's still no real consensus on the issue. Though Libertarianism seems to have the least "followers" I guess you could say. lol Determinism used to be the undisputed majority opinion during the Enlightenment Era, but experienced a decline in popularity with the rise of Einsteinian "New Physics" and Quantum Mechanics. 
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  5053. moyga - Oh, I've heard of that position before. I don't know if I'd say it's the prevailing scientific theory (maybe it used to be, it doesn't necessarily appear to be now) but is a more uncomplicated (in a sense) form of Determinism. There are arguments against it of course: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supervenience#Arguments_against_supervenience-based_formulations_of_physicalism I would say that I partially agree with it. Meaning I agree with some of it but disagree with other parts of it. This part I'm skeptical about: "Every thought you have corresponds to some physical process and every time your psychology is altered there is a physical change in your brain." While I agree with this (at least most of the time, there are occasions of thoughts not necessarily showing a traceable physical change) it's a Chicken and Egg question to me. Does the physical change cause the thought? Or does the thought cause the thought change? It also become a question of how does one induce a physical change if you assume the former? "Just because you are doing something you wouldn't normally do doesn't mean you aren't acting based on your mental characteristics" While that can be true I'd require empirical evidence to accept that as the explanation. "its because your mental characteristics were unusual at that time, or your 'input' was. (your circumstances, experience etc.)" I can think of times I've done random, out-of-character things at times when nothing seemed to be unusual. "I know that sounds like a cop out," Oh, not at all, friend. I don't view it as a cop-out because: 1) This is a very complex issue/topic. It's a mixture of science and philosophy. That's very tricky. 2) The professionals themselves haven't fully proven any particular view yet. I don't think we will tonight here either. XD 3) I realize I cannot prove my own leanings (Compatibilism and Hard Indeterminism). I can just explain why I feel they're the most likely candidates to be true. "Because that is not what determinism entails" If by "determined" you mean that there is some physical change that is the cause of a person wanting to do something or choosing to do something, I do believe that happens at times. I don't know if I believe that is always the cause of thoughts, choices or decisions though. It appears that sometimes decisions, thoughts or choices can possibly be independent of traceable physical changes in the body, or at least maybe cause the change rather than the change causing the decision or change of mind. "If you are always able to do what you want to do out of the options available in any given situation, do you lack any kind of 'free will' that you would care about?" No. Though it would be a different definition of "free will" than some people's definitions. However, I believe it may be possible for a person to change the options available for themselves. At least at times. "Even if we can't predict things at the quantum level in principle, it still wouldn't prove indeterminism" True. Incalculability isn't truly indeterminism. However, Quantum Mechanics has shown some things that appear to potentially be "true indeterminism" (I guess that would be the best term for things that truly aren't deterministic). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics
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  5219. olbear303 - 1) Many of these states only accept a Driver ID. 2) "I can pick up a state issued ID during my lunch hour" I don't know about you but your situation does not represent EVERYONE ELSE'S situation: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/08/voter_id_laws_why_do_minorities_lack_id_to_show_at_the_polls_.html "Driver’s licenses are not the only accepted forms of identification, but minorities may face extra challenges in securing other legally valid IDs. Passports, military IDs, and other government-issued photo ID are generally accepted, and some states accept student ID cards from state universities. Texas accepts concealed-weapons licenses, but New York University’s Brennan Center for Justice points out that African-Americans are also less likely to have these concealed-gun permits. For voters who need to secure a valid ID, tracking down the necessary documents—such as a birth certificate and social security card—can take time and money, and the Brennan Center additionally reports that many voting centers are far away from minority voters and are rarely open. Minorities also move from state to state more frequently, which makes meeting varying requirements for documentation more difficult, and Hispanics often use different naming customs, which can make for additional confusion at the DMV or voting booth. Additionally, the Brennan Center suggests that minority voters are more likely to be carded at the polls. Of course, minority voters aren’t the only group likely to be disenfranchised. Seniors, for example, are also less likely to drive. Academic studies suggest that voter ID laws do probably reduce turnout, both among Democrats and Republicans, but not by more than about 2 percent." Try doing a little research before opening your yap. It's the adult thing to do. Not to mention there is no evidence most of these ID laws stop fraud.
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  5224. Patrick McGinnes - "What exactly is the historical evidence provided in the Bible?" 1) Much of the Jewish history and the history of the Babylonian Captivity. 2) That a historical person Jesus probably did exist. 3) Much of the early Church history. Part of the issue is that most of the stuff in the Bible that is true is the "boring stuff" that most people, religious and atheist alike, tend to skip over. The more outlandish stuff that gets people's attention is the stuff that tends to be less accurate. Historians and scholars like Bart Ehrmann could give you more details than I can off the cuff. "Everything else is a good source for history" The Bible is more or less about as accurate as most other ancient and medieval historical documents. You really think Chinese historical documents like "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms" or the recordings of Plato, Demosthenes, Strabo, etc. are historically accurate in the same sense as modern-day history books? Lol No, just no. Your comments kind of sound like someone who is somewhat new to the subject of ancient history and accuracy. "true things happened in a comic book" Bad comparison. Comic books are KNOWINGLY fictional and not meant to be taken as actual history in any sense of the word whatsoever (other than in fictional canon universe). The Bible and most other ancient and medieval books are more akin to American Tall Tales or stories like the story of King Arthur and Robin Hood. They're semi-historical chronicles. Not encyclopedias. 
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  5262. Cosmo1093 - "I believe the point was that there aren't 1 million shootings per year, meaning that the percentage of gun owners who are "nuts" is well under 1%" That was never in contention in the first place. "In reality, it is less than 1/10th of 1%" 0.1% of 100,000,000 (100 million firearms owners in the US) is 100,000. That's a lot. Not too much better than 1 million. "that may or may not have involved legal firearms at all." 1) Gang-related shootings make up for a relatively small percentage of gun-related murders and violence every year. 2) Many gang members have legally-owned firearms. 3) Most shootings are non-gang-related and involve legal firearms. Hence why it's a problem. "As bad as the murder rate is in the US, it is dropping year after year, and it is at its lowest since the 1960's." Very true. Even though crime in the US is at its lowest rate since the early 70s/late 60s it's still much higher than every industrialized country other than Russia and Ukraine. Still unacceptably high for a First World country. We should be better than this. "That is happening despite gun laws becoming more lax in most of the country" Also very true, but statistical analysis shows that areas with more guns in circulation tend to have higher gun crime rates (unrelated to legislation to allow or limit buying them legally): http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check Hence why poor urban areas have the highest shooting rates (among other socioeconomic factors).
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  5267. He told the cop he had a gun because cops often search black people's cars and bodies after pulling us over. When black people DON'T tell cops we have a gun, cops freak out and shoot us assuming we were hiding something. The cop told him to get his insurance and ID. He had only pulled out insurance and needed to take out his ID. He told the cop he has a gun to PUT THE COP AT EASE BY NOT HIDING ANYTHING AND BEING ON THE LEVEL WITH HIM. The cop freaked out even though Philando was only trying to comply with his order to get his ID since he failed to get it the first time when he retrieved his insurance. Your post is an example of the problem. Rationally, what reason did Castile have to shoot the cop in the first place? Rationally, if he wanted to shoot the cop, why would he give away the element of surprise and let him know he was armed? If he wanted to kill the cop, he would have just pulled a gun, not ALERTED him first. Rationally, why would Castile shoot the cop WHILE ANOTHER COP IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE VEHICLE? The other cop could have shot Castile right after or right before he even shot Yanez if Castile, for whatever mystifying reason, wanted to kill Yanez for no reason. Your post is an example of the problem because some people are so prejudiced and primed to assume black men are dangerous that you aren't even being rational or even examining WHY would the black man become violent in a casual situation. The other cop and most Americans can see what Yanez did wrong. Your post is based entirely on you being subconsciously fearful and on-edge and ready to shoot at the drop of a hat. Yanez emptied an entire clip and could have hit the girlfriend, the kid or the cop on the other side. Anyone that damn scared and fearful of black people, or just motorists in general, does not need to be a cop. You'd be equivalent to a soldier who's so scared shitless that he'd empty his whole M-16 and spray every bystander and even his own fellow soldiers in a village if he was overseas and heard a twig snap unexpectedly. You're just a liability and a hazard being that fearful while armed. Don't be a cop if you're as paranoid, jumpy and fearful as yourself or Yanez.
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  5320. Sarah Woody - Exactly. It's also very intellectually dishonest to compare the status of self-selected middle class immigrants who opted to be here of their own free volition with people who were born here in various conditions. Even with that there are still immigrants groups that are better off overall than African immigrants and with lower crime rates. It's also galling because as many problems as there are in the African-American community, we (and a lot of people do, white people included) could talk about all the problems there are in Africa and why most of it is considered an undesirable place to live in or visit. That's part of the reason African immigrants come here to begin with - to escape Africa.  Point being: Don't throw stones in a glass house. "but what we absolutely DONT need is some stuck up twat with a false sense of importance desperate to become the new model minority, while at the same time looking down their nose at a community that made it possible for them to be here in the first place." Very true. Had it not been for African-Americans (the main leaders of the Civil Rights Movement) most of these African immigrants wouldn't even be here in the first place. The US wasn't falling all over itself to let Africans come here before the Civil Rights Movement.  It's especially annoying that you have people priding themselves and looking down on other people all because some white people view them as a model minority. It just reeks of an old Slave Mentality. "You hear that? Mr. White Man says I have good manners and I work hard. More so than you. Hah! Hear that American blacks?Take that! >:)" So pathetic. Africans like that (just the ones like that, many Africans aren't that way) talk about African-Americans not having pride, but yet those Africans base their self-esteem on how others view them.
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  5321. enacra101 - "to quote myself" 1) Your quote had jack shit to do with anything I just said. It didn't disprove a goddamn thing. 2) You haven't been to every place African-Americans live in America yet that doesn't stop you from talking about us. Fucking hypocrite. 3) I don't have to have been to Africa to know most people there are far poorer than African-Americans and the continent has HUGE issues. I don't have to have gone there or lived there to know half the people there live on less than $2/day. "there isn't a middle class in my country, most immigrants immigrate because their POOR" Bullshit. The US doesn't tend to let poor people from poor countries move here. *By nature they don't have enough money to do so. *The US often has requirements on education and job prospects for you to emigrate here legally. That's why illegal immigrants are the exception - they come here under the radar. There are various studies on what I'm talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigration_to_the_United_States#Educational_attainment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_middle_class#African_immigrants_and_the_black_middle_class Most African immigrants are middle-class in their home countries (or by those countries' standards). Pretty much the only poor Africans who come here are illegal immigrants or people here on things like adoption programs or international aid programs. "now you spend all your time pissed off at the world because of it" Who said I'm pissed off at anyone about it? You make A LOOOOOOOOOOOT of (wrong) assumptions about people.  You, on the other hand, have done nothing by cry and carry a chip on your shoulder about African-Americans making fun of you or putting you down. Get the fuck over it and stop crying.
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  5323. enacra101 - Um, yes you did: "The reason Africans tend to take issue with African Americans is because you guys tend to be the ones who are over entitled yet lack proper work ethic...." "do but your resentments (as a community) from the past keep you from doing so (along with racism and all that, yeah yeah I know)...." Those are just as specific and crazy as those stereotypes I listed. And YES, those stereotypes I listed about Africans actually are real-life stereotypes some Americans have of Africa. "But why, why is there lower educational attainment" 1) Because African immigrants are self-selected. The educated ones choose to come over here. The uneducated Africans usually don't get to come here unless they're international aid charity recipients, adopted or sneak over. African-Americans have a higher educational attainment rate than continental Africans do. Why? Because African immigrants don't represent the average African. Most of Africa is poor. While many African-Americans are also poor they're less poor than most Africans and have more access to education due to living in an industrialized country.  2) The US has a very uneven educational system. Even ignoring interracial issues there is significantly lower educational attainment rate among white Southerners than white Northerners.  "I've actually met AA's that fit the exact stereotype that is" Of course. There are tons who do. There are also tons of white people and tons of Africans who fit stereotypes of their groups too. That's why it's best to not generalize about any group. "and few of the good AA's step in to shut it down" Shut it down? No one can shut down that stupid site. Unfortunately it's protected by the First Amendment. Just like we can't have these stupid reality shows taken off the other either. We can just stop watching. But many people who watch WorldStar don't tend to be black. Many tend to be just bigots who want to watch some black people acting up so they can feel superior (judging by the comments). "their silence comes across as condoning the behavior" Every time a black individual acts up are all the other 42,000,000 black people supposed to make a personal apology on their behalf or condemnation? You don't hear all of white America speaking up to condemn every white idiot either. Nor should they have to.
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  5324. enacra101 - "How are you going to tell me about people that are literally my own family" 1) Your family does not represent all African immigrants. 2) I didn't tell you about your family. 3) My statements are based on documented Census data. Just like I can say most Irish immigrants used to be indentured servants (in the 1600s to early 1800s) or people fleeing the Great Potato Famine (in the late 1800s and early 1900s). That's documented by govt data. "To be fair though, explain why first generation Americans such as myself o African Immigrants tend to also do better in the US than AA's?" Same reason you also tend to do disproportionately better than white Americans - better education. It opens doors. "Even in the place I last worked I would always work extremely hard but the AA's that were there would come in late, blast music, smoke weed on the job and slap box in the parking lot after work, same opportunity, different result." Those people don't represent all or the average black person. I could go on about my experiences with lazy, ignorant and self-destructive white meth heads sitting around on welfare in trailer parks in some areas I've lived in before. Those people don't necessarily represent most or the average white American. "I've lived in Africa, education and being productive is the common mindset" I'll take your word for it but the data shows that the average African is much less educated on average than the average African-American (most Africans don't have beyond a 7th to 9th grade education) and black American worker productivity is much higher than in any African country. American productivity in general is higher than most other countries in the world. Is it because African-Americans are better? No. America is a wealthier country with much more resources than the average African country and better technology. "the issues you see coming from there are from a lack of resources (they have plenty, but are often exploited and ripped off from them), political corruption, religion is a HUGE perpetrator of the issues" Not unlike African-Americans here. XD Those are some of the hugest factors causing our problems as well. Aside from too many single-parent households, absent dads, teen moms, gangs, high unemployment and institutional discrimination/mass incarceration. Africa also continues to be plagued by being exploited by former colonial powers and industrialized countries treating Africa as a cheap labor pool and place to strip mine and dump resources for the benefit of themselves rather than for the benefit of the Africans they use to do the work for them (Ex: De Beers). "I simply don't see what's stopping you guys from taking advantage of the opportunities you do have" Part of the issue is that many immigrants come here already having college degrees from home. Many African-Americans are born to unwed single mothers who live in areas with crappy schools. Not even mentioning the rising costs of higher education here in the States and the rising unavailability of Pell Grants.
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  5396. Batman _ - It really depends on which group of religious people you're talking about. If you're referring to religious conservatives and especially religious fundamentalists (sometimes even some religious moderates) I definitely agree with you 110%. There is absolutely no reason why you should fear for your safety for criticizing an idea you don't agree with and religious people have no right to threaten harm or attempt to harm people for disagreeing or criticizing them (or even making fun of them, being teased is not an excuse to kill). But, there are also tons of religious moderates and religious liberals who handle criticism, skepticism and dialogue quite well and are able to carry on a mature and thoughtful conversation with nonbelievers or people from different faiths. I've seen it many times (though admittedly not nearly often enough). There are even schools and academic groups of religious people dedicated to analyzing, criticizing and being skeptical of their own religion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_skepticism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_criticism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_skepticism#Islam While Hitchens, Dawkins and Harris are all soft-spoken and outwardly affable people (Hitchens, despite being the most caustic and acerbic-tongued of the three, I always found him to be the most endearing, sentimental and open-minded), their mindsets can be rigid, uncompromising, lacking self-insight, lacking knowledge of relevant topics related to religion and religious history, and at times dangerous. All 3 of them have been apologists for war crimes, unnecessary wars, authoritarianism (Harris defended torture, extra-judicial imprisonment and racial profiling of Arabs). Just because they're not personally violent themselves doesn't mean their words are any less despicable. That's exactly why Harris in this case is being taken to task by so many people. He's not a violent man himself, but he's a public apologist for violence and horrible things. Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, John Hagee, Ken Ham, Ray Comfort, etc. aren't personally violent either. That doesn't make their ideas any less despicable and sickening or their defenses of atrocities, authoritarianism, violation of human rights and malicious ideas any less contemptible. There are atheists much worse than the New Atheist authors and celebs (like Stalin, Mao, etc.) just like there are theists much worse than Born Again televangelists and pastors. Doesn't make the former okay, though.
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  5397. Batman _ - Those well-known atheists I mentioned earlier are the biggest offenders that come to mind (in terms of being popular ideologues with a big fanbase and a lot of influence). Personally I think even though Dawkins is the most mild-mannered and soft-spoken of the "Four Horsemen", I think he's probably the least open-minded and least tolerant along with Harris. I think that admission by Hitchens about something Dawkins said was eye-opening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9TMwfkDwIY It implied that if Dawkins had the power to eliminate everyone who isn't an atheist or eliminate anyone and everyone not being an atheist he would do it. That's pretty much the mindset of a fundamentalist or fanatic. If they could they would make the world so that no one disagrees with them. Harris also has this very dastardly line of though that the existence of religious moderates and religious liberals inherently provides cover and legitimacy for religious fundamentalists (basically implying anyone who is religious or a theist is inherently partly responsible for the atrocities of religious fundies and monstrosities committed in their religion's name). That's about like saying Progressives inherently provide cover and legitimacy to Stalinists by virtue of them both happening to be on the Political Left. Or men who aren't extreme feminists provide cover and legitimacy to horrid radical MRAs like Elliot Rodger by virtue of not being a non-Feminist. It's just a big Slippery Slope/Guilt By Association Fallacy.
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  5398. ***** - Sorry if I came across as sounding a little flippant, I think it's because I was a in rush earlier and didn't get to put all my thoughts together in as long-winded a fashion as I was able to just now. So I sounded relatively terse. I'm very aware many if not most atheists aren't like these people. Several of my friends are atheists in real life, so I know people who aren't like that. My position is that atheists like that are just plentiful online but largely absent in real life (at least in the Western world) while religious fundamentalists are relatively underrepresented online but overly abundant and dangerous in the real offline world. Lol *I speak about atheists in third person because I don't consider myself one. I don't consider myself a theist either, though. I identify as Ignostic, similar to Noam Chomsky. Which I don't see my views as fitting neatly into either theism or atheism. I think Apatheist best describes my religious position other than Ignostic. If pressed, my personal view is that if a "God" does "exist", He/She/It is probably so far beyond human comprehension that trying to define it is kind of a wasted exercise (like a single cell trying to comprehend a human body) and confining it to things like existence or nonexistence is probably a mistake. Sort of like some things in Quantum Mechanics like Time, Heat, strings, the difference between the 4 fundamental forces or the difference between potential and kinetic energy (in Quantum Mechanics these things break down after a certain point and whether they're "real", or if they "exist" or are separate becomes something of a pointless question, kind of like Schrodinger's cat). I guess that attitude/mindset could be called "Transtheism".
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  5478. sirellyn - You haven't shown they're always out of whack either. "Even if a price control is chosen and it happens to be equal to ONE BUISNIESS exact revenue minus expenses it will be incorrect for the rest" While a price control will always eventually set prices too low for at least one seller this doesn't mean it sets the price too low for MOST sellers. Also, because a price is set lower than what a seller would like to set it does not automatically make something harmful. If they could get away with it McDonald's would like to sell Big Macs for $10 a piece and pay their workers $1/hour. That would greatly increase their profit margins if they could get away with that. Part of the reason they don't is because of the limited regulations we have in place. Another part is because they have competitors their customers would likely run to (and thus ultimately decrease profit margins from customers leaving). If McDonald's eventually takes over a large enough share of the market (a monopoly) they could potentially have the power to do so and customers wouldn't have much choice but to buy. What McDonald's would LIKE to sell things at is not necessarily what's good for consumers or society. In a "free market" there is fairly little to stop a natural monopoly from forming or from things like collusion and cartels from forming.  "In other words, at BEST, price controls will be "right" for one company for a short instance of time, and be still wrong for all the others" All you've proven is that it would be "right" for 1 and wrong for 1 other. You haven't shown it would "wrong" for most others. You also haven't shown how the price would be: 1) "Wrong". Because a price is lower than what a seller wants to sell doesn't make it "wrong". What a seller wants to sell for is not automatically identical to the equilibrium price. 2) "Out of whack". That implies it causes some kind of economic harm. American companies who hire in the US have lower profit margins than companies that use sweatshop labor abroad. That doesn't mean the companies in the US are hurting for money or on the verge of going out of business. A price control setting a price lower than a seller might want wouldn't necessarily harm the seller.
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  5479. sirellyn - "I don't have to produce a ton of articles" Well, that's okay, because I can produce economics articles which empirically show that price controls can sometimes be helpful: http://www.nber.org/digest/may05/w11114.html "The free market exists just like "pollution free" does" Incorrect. A "free market" just means a market where there is little or fairly little government regulation of certain things and certain conditions among sellers and buyers. It doesn't mean a market lacking corruption. A market akin to being free of pollution would be a "Perfect Market". You're confusing a Perfect Market and a Free Market.  "Free Markets" don't exist naturally. The government has to exist to create the conditions for them. Hence why it's not comparable to being free of pollution as being pollution-free does not occur naturally either with human activity. "You see it everywhere in fact" Of course it does exist, just not at a national level. Communism also exists, just not at a national level. It exists at some local levels, just like free markets. "There just happens to be LESS than any other mean" This is an article of Faith. Not a fact or definition of "free market". NOTHING in the definition of a Free Market says it would have less corruption, fraud, violence, etc. than other systems. It's just a hope among proponents that it would. Just like nothing in the definition of socialism or communism says it would have less of these things either. "I'd say the long term effectiveness is what wins out.  Otherwise the hunters would have out survived the farmers." Of course. However, there isn't a magical force that naturally forces Humans to recognize the long-term effectiveness and stop their harmful short-term activity before it's too late. If there is no government regulation or intervention to start transitioning society, consumers, the infrastructure system and our economic system towards Alternative/Renewable Energy the "Free Market" is not going to naturally push people in that direction before it's too late. If left to their own devices companies will continue to use fossil fuels and natural gas until it's no longer economically feasible to drill for these things and it takes more money and energy per gallon of gas to drill for it than you pull out of the ground. Then maybe there will be an interest in Alternatives. By that point it's too late and our gas-powered infrastructure and economy are left without power while companies finally get around to R&D on what other energy can be used. Had it been left to the "Free Market" much of the space program never would have occurred. There was no mass lineup of companies volunteering to build rockets, spacecraft or manned spaceships. Spaceflight was (and to a lesser degree still is) a very risky activity with very high liabilities, very high cost (it costs a lot to build a rocket and spacecraft or have R&D for the new technology necessary) and it can take years or decades before it becomes profitable. It took a massive government program to pioneer this activity and build reliable and tested infrastructure before companies finally decided to dip their toe into that market in the 1980s and 90s. In a "Free Market" most firms won't invest in such a thing because there is no solid guarantee of profit and any profit could be long-term rather than short-term. It's the same reason why there's so little investment in "Cold Fusion" technology (even from the government).  "Capitalism supports businesses, but business does not nessecerily support capitalism." And supporting businesses can sometimes come at the cost of consumers and society. Businesses will support whatever they feel benefits them the most. Sometimes things other than the "Free Market" would benefit them much more. Sometimes the "Free Market" can benefit businesses but not benefit others. "If you think that makes business evil" Businesses are amoral profit-machines. They're not necessarily "evil" but they're not "good" either. Being amoral sometimes you can do things that are good because it benefits you in some way. Like research into cancer cures. However, being amoral means sometimes you will do things that are bad because it benefits you. Look at things done by Halliburton and Monsanto. Some of what they do does fit most definitions of "Evil" - a callous disregard for the rights, plights and lives/welfare of others.
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  5496. Joseph F - Because you're the one who insisted in the first place that Rush was "joking" and complained about Rush losing advertisers because of his comments. "When we have countless examples of people being outraged about something that was said on a show that they don't even watch/listen to" That's kind of irrelevant as long as: 1) SOME of the people complaining are actually listeners. You might have a point if you could prove all or almost all of the people complaining aren't listeners or consumers of that particular brand, and if you could prove: 2) That they never will be consumers/listeners in the future to begin with. If you're upsetting potential future listeners and some current listeners, that's a problem. Even if the people complaining aren't listeners: 3) As long as they're people who patronize the companies who sponsor the show they could start boycotting companies who continue to sponsor. Even if you don't listen to Rush Limbaugh you might still buy products from...let's say Burger King. Then you find out Burger King sponsors Rush...so you decide to stop buying from Burger King. THAT'S why sponsors will pull out from someone like Rush's show. The universe doesn't start and end with Rush's direct listeners. All the companies who sponsor his show have customers of their own and customers who base their purchase based on who they sponsor. "because the percentage of people offended in the whole country is not necessarily the same as the percentage of people offended who watch the show" Unless you have evidence that people who watch the show: 1) Generally agree with Robertson 2) Are not some of the people complaining 3) That the people complaining don't buy from any company who sponsors the show you don't really have a point. If more than half the country is upset about someone on your show and those people are consumers who buy products from people who sponsor your show you've got a serious problem on your hand.  "because they unsuspended Robertson after receiving backlash from the show's actual fans" The reason they brought him back was because the rest of the family threatened to leave if they didn't bring Phil back. Had nothing to do with A&E being "right" or "wrong" and everything to do with them not wanting to lose the show.  However, they've still lost most of their sponsors. So, chances are the show may not last too much longer unless they get sponsors back. Sponsors tend to be movers behind big shows like this. "did not affect the actual fans of the show's ability to enjoy the show" You base this on what? Did you take a poll of what "actual fans of the show" think? "to be fired for saying them" Being fired is not being silenced. You're still free to talk as much as you want. Silenced is when you are not allowed to speak anywhere without being jailed. Not allowed to say a certain thing without losing a job is not being silenced. "explain why it's wrong" What do you think the people objecting did? Phil responded by saying "Well, I disagree because my religious beliefs say so." "Don't just get them fired" Nobody got him fired. The network fired him on their own because they got public backlash and started losing sponsors. People don't have to refrain from publicly complaining just because it might affect your job. People can scream and moan publicly as loud as they want. 1st Amendment.  "This is important, because unpopular or controversial statements are not inherently incorrect" True, but there are consequences to making unpopular or controversial statements. The 1st Amendment doesn't protect you from that. Now, if I was a newscaster and I admitted to being a Communist in an interview or on tV some people might complain. It might cause public backlash and sponsors might pull out. The network might fire me for publicly stating my belief in Marxism and my belief that capitalism is evil. Would you call that me being "silenced"? What would you propose? The network keep me and just eat the loss in viewership or the corporate sponsors pulling out or having some consumers boycott them for sponsoring my network? Media is a for-profit business. Not a charity or an institution trying to make a comment on how society should be.
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  5497. Joseph F - "Can you honestly say that you have no beliefs or opinions that upset other people?" Of course I do. I'm a Libertarian Socialist. I'm sure I'd piss off plenty of people since the majority of Americans are Liberals or Conservatives. Or they'd at least find some of my views disagreeable. I'd probably piss off Conservatives and right-wing types more often but I'd upset Liberal/Progressive types often enough that I'd be a minority on some political issues. Probably sometimes a maligned minority since some Americans believe Socialists/Socialism is "evil". Depending on the company openly declaring oneself to be a Socialist is almost like openly declaring to be a pedophile or a Satanist. I know what it's like to be against the majority of the public on an issue. Hell, I've probably upset you now just letting you know what I am, lol. "Do you want to be forced to choose between telling the truth about what you believe and keeping your job?" I air my opinions about the world all the time, like I am now here on Google+/YouTube. I wouldn't necessarily declare all of my views in an interview with a popular magazine if I'm not self-employed because I recognize what the backlash might be. I realize that even now it's possible my current employer could somehow catch wind of what I'm admitting to you online. I'm fully prepared to deal with the consequences of my actions should that happen. The minute I posted "I am a Libertarian Socialist" I knew there is a chance of my employer ever finds out it could possibly lead to me getting fired. I'm prepared to accept that. That's a capitalist society for you. "Shouldn't you be able to tell or share a joke that you think is funny without getting fired for it?" Yeah, but I wouldn't post it on my wall or anyone else's wall on Facebook or Twitter. I'd send it by PM. If I say something publicly on social media that I know could be controversial I'm prepared to deal with the consequences, which could include my employer looking up my name on social media, seeing my comment and firing me. Employers do that nowadays. "You don't recall Al Sharpton demanding that Imus be taken off the air" I mean with Rush specifically. A lot of conservative demanded Martin Bashir be taken off the air for his comments about Sarah Palin. Was that wrong of them? "A bunch of people went out of their way to get this woman in trouble with her boss and sat gleefully at their computers awaiting for her plane to land so she could realize that she'd been fired" Yeah, it's pathetic on their part, but: 1) Her comment was insensitive. "Joke" or not. I didn't really see how it was a "joke" to be honest and it didn't make any sense. You can't get AIDS if you're white? 2) She didn't just HAVE to post it publicly on Twitter. She could have sent a PM to friends she wanted to see it. Whether or not the people complaining were assholes (that's your opinion, they may have been genuinely offended), she did something irresponsible and suffered the same consequences as anyone else. Thousands of people have been fired for making irresponsible comments on social media. "However, that doesn't change the fact that their assholes for doing it" Depends. If Al Sharpton said "Sarah Palin should be raped in public" and then claimed it was a joke, are the people who insist MSNBC fire him "assholes"? I'd argue "No" since his comment was out-of-hand. Some people felt the same way about this lady's comment. "Anyone who wants speech that they disagree with to be silenced" They aren't asking for her to be silenced, they're asking for her to be fired. She can continue to make all the African AIDS jokes she wants on Twitter. Nothing's stopping her. She just can't stay at that job while doing so. Fired =/= Silenced Asking for her to be "silenced" would be asking for her to be jailed. You're engaging in HUGE exaggeration and melodramatics by comparing being fired to a dictatorship silencing critics. "They're going around creating consequences" Who? Employers and sponsors? Employers and sponsors have had the right to get people fired for saying things they don't like since....well, since forever. Nobody makes the employer do anything, the employer is who ultimately decides if you stay or go. If you don't like what's going on your complaint should be with the employer. The employer can just keep the person on and ignore backlash, just like A&E appears to be doing. Most employers just will not do so because they value Profit above your sense of making a public statement.
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  5498. Joseph F - "If you want there to be consequences for people who say things that you don't like" There is no such thing as no consequences for saying things people don't like. That's not how reality works. You don't understand how Freedom of Speech works. It doesn't mean "Freedom from any Consequences of what you say". I don't think you'll find any part of the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, Supreme Court ruling or opinions of the Founding Fathers that employers should not be allowed to let employees go if they say things that cause a public issue. "and I campaign for married gay people to be fired from their jobs" Supporting the 1st Amendment and campaigning for someone to be fired is not akin to supporting Gay Marriage but wanting a gay person to be fired from their job for being in a gay marriage. It's akin to supporting the Freedom of Assembly not supporting the right of a random group of people to stand in the street and block traffic without people honking their horns at them. Freedom of Assembly does not mean freedom from any consequences of where and when you choose to assemble, just like Freedom of Speech doesn't mean complete job immunity no matter how much of a shitstorm you cause your job for choosing to say controversial things in public. Likewise, Freedom of Religion doesn't mean you have the legal right to make up a religion and declare it's against your religion to work, therefore the gov't should subsidize you for the consequences of your religious laws (i.e. give you welfare to make up for you refusing to work). "the people who are creating consequences" The only consequences they "created" was public complaining, boycotting or demands for the person in question to be fired. That doesn't force an employer to do anything since the employer can still ignore all that. Are you arguing people have no right to demand a person be fired? They can demand it all the want. Freedom of Speech.  "They are not in favor of free speech" Using your free speech to denounce what someone else said is not being against free speech. Refusing to patronize a company associated with someone No one can MAKE a company fire anyone. The employer still has the free choice to ignore the profit loss, ignore the public backlash and ignore sponsors pulling out and keep the employee. So no one forced anyone to do anything. Now, are you going to argue that people have no right to cause the company to lose profits if a member of that company says or does something they disagree with? "but they're still fucking assholes" That's a piss-poor argument. Being a "fucking asshole" is not illegal or violating anyone else's rights. Being a "fucking asshole" doesn't take away anyone's 1st Amendment rights.
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  5537. MykTheOccultist - Having wounds does not mean you were assaulted. "Assault" is when you are attacked for no good reason. How do GZ's injuries prove TM touched him first and that GZ was leaving him alone (and made this clear to TM) when this happened? They don't. Aggressors get injuries in conflicts all the time. An aggressor can start a fight and end up getting their ass kicked. Happens every day. "and the lack of any injuries on TM" Actually, though TM did not have any visible injuries the hoodie drawstring facing GZ's free hand was pulled fully taut. Indicating that GZ may have been yanking or pulling on his hoodie (as if to keep him in place or prevent TM from running away). Which goes along with what GZ muttered in the 911 call that he was tired of "these assholes always getting away". But, like what you're doing, that would only be a theory of why the drawstring was pulled. Not necessarily provable. "also support the fact that TM had GZ in a mounted position" Actually, according to Dr. Di Maio TM's position simply showed he was probably upright when he was shot. Under cross examination Di Maio admitted TM could just as easily have been upright and backing away when shot as leaning on GZ.  "where he repeatedly attacked GZ." And again this is another assumption of yours that has absolutely no empirical backing. You have no evidence TM "repeatedly attacked" GZ other than hitting him in the nose once. Dr. Rao and Dr. Bao testified the same thing. GZ's injuries were minor and superficial, nowhere near the kind of grisly injuries a person attacked anywhere near like he claimed to be would have. "Why would the prosecution have refused to release the photo, then only release a black-and-white version" What photo?
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  5561. I'll try to avoid generalizing, because not all MRAs are alike, just like not all Feminists are alike. However, there is a large segment of MRAs (the Anti-Feminist strand, not all MRAs are anti-feminist) who refuse to believe or accept that there is a gender gap problem in the first place, or think nothing should be done about it because they think it's 100% justified and all women's fault. The MRAs like that are about as useful in the fight for wage equality as modern Republicans are when it comes to combating Institutional Racism, Hiring Discrimination and the racial wage gap. Modern Republicans, for the most part, won't even fucking acknowledge that racism is a problem, or that it exists as a problem beyond a few bad random individuals. They dismiss it as a myth that minorities and liberals are all just in on a huge conspiracy making it up; or maintain that the only racism that's a problem is so-called "Reverse Racism" (but never explain why the whites who make up the majority of political and economic leaders would go along with such a masochistic and self-destructive plot). Likewise, some MRAs just dismiss the gender pay gap as a myth that women in general and evil "Feminazis" in academia and the government are just conspiring to make up to punish men (but never explain why the men that make up the majority of government officials and academia would be in on such a masochistic plot); or that any gap that does exist is totally legit. You can't combat a problem if you deny there is a problem in the first place.
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  5587. bulbinking - "At least 30% of the recipients are black" Yes, but that is still a far cry from "usually" like you said earlier. 30-39% is nowhere near a majority (what "usually" would imply). "Government housing IS racist as it was originally designed specifically for poor blacks" When was this? Govt housing was created in the 1920s and 30s to help poor people, especially poor people affected by the Great Depression. The vast, vast majority of beneficiaries were white. Prior to LBJ's Great Society there were often laws in HUD and the FHA which allowed the govt to deny government housing aid or government loan aids given to white Americans, often to avoid pissing off Southern white voters who FDR was afraid of offending by helping minorities. Also, how is helping a specific group racist? It would only be racist if it were to the exclusion of other groups. Is foreign aid specifically meant to help Asian countries or European countries racist? "than compare it to who lives in government housing" 1) There are 2-3x more poor blacks per capita than poor whites. According to the BLS about 8-9.5% of white Americans are below the Poverty Line compared to 21.5-24% of blacks. 2) Poor blacks tend to be poorer than poor whites. Poor blacks tend to have far less assets, personal savings and/or credit ratings than poor whites. Poor blacks, even with identical credit rating with poor whites, also tend to be turned down for private loans at a much higher rate than poor whites. Poor blacks are more likely to be forced to have no other option than govt assistance white poor whites are more likely to be able to receive private help. "I have never seen/heard of white people living in government housing" Poor whites make up around 1/3 of people living in govt housing.
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  5693. fablan6 - "Link please" Link? You don't know this woman very well, do you? Read "The Necessity of Domestic Violence" (title is self-explanatory). http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2013/01/25/abused-women-demand-their-abuse-how-mras-make-the-abusers-arguments-for-them/ "I think he apologized about that" So? And? If the Feminist who said male babies should be killed to reduce the male population by 90% apologized would you forgive her? Fuck no, you wouldn't. Your bias is very, very clear. As I said earlier. "Yeah... The "middle ground" fallacy." Not a fallacy since this shit is just as bad as that extreme Feminist nonsense. You've yet to show me that Feminists are supposedly far worse than MRAs. "I'm totally biased to think that hitting a woman is not as bad as killing half the human population" You think killing girls (half the population) and legalizing Rape is not as bad as killing males. Yeah, I'd say you're biased. "I don't know where you get all that about people saying that women deserve to be raped" "it's not like you're providing any evidence" I've directly linked articles and cited studies and essays related to these subjects. You've yet to quote any Feminists talking about killing all males (only one I can think of is Valerie Solanas). Don't throw stones in a glass house. From Paul Elam. Just type his name in Google and read the first article on him. It quotes him. "Oooh the "not true scotsman" fallacy" No, it's the "You Took Someone Else's Word As Gospel And Can't Actually Prove Any Of This Shit You're Saying Is Real" realization. I didn't say a goddamn thing about "not real feminists". Please point out where I claimed these Feminists aren't "true Feminists". I'll wait. "And I've actually met a few feminists and spoke with them. Not those ultra evil ones, some slightly normal, and they all act the same way." Personal Anecdote as Evidence. Like I didn't see that coming (sarcasm). You do know using unprovable personal anecdotes does not count as "evidence"? Didn't they teach you that in Critical Analysis? And how does this prove your "B-b-b-b-b-b-but Feminists as still WAY worse" claim? I've met tons of MRAs who act like the stereotypical Fedora/Neckbeard/Brony sperglord banging on about how women are all evil, manipulative whores and herpes who oppress them through the magical Gynocracy and deny them sex. That doesn't prove much either. It's an anecdote. "Aaand we're back at the "common ground" thing." That was my original point. They're both equally shitty. Which I've more than proved my point at this point. So far your only "evidence" Feminists are worse is a supposed quote from 1 Feminist about killing 90% of men. A quote you can't even link to. I've cited quotes from several prominent MRAs. My evidence far outweighs yours. I've noted several figures. You've only cited one incident from Feminists. "You're the guy who puts the male infanticide thing in the same category with men not wanting to pay for kids they were tricked into having after having unprotected sex" No I didn't. I put it in the same category as legalizing Rape and killing girl babies.
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  5720. deltaxcd - "if this cycle takes tens of thousands of years, few decades mean nothing." Aside from the Milankovitch Cycle there are miniature fluctuations in global temperature averages that change over a several decades or a few centuries. Like the "Medieval Warm Period" and the "Little Ice Age". Those fluctuations, however, are naturally much, much smaller than the current warming trend that's going on. It also doesn't involve atmospheric CO2 more than doubling in less than 300 years like it is now. That trend isn't really explainable by anything totally natural. "like what if temperature rose by 3 degrees naturally and additional 1 degree (or 0.1 degree) by human activity." The amount of energy require to raise the global temperature by even 1 degree is MASSIVE. It takes huge amounts of release of greenhouse gases, fairly radical changes in solar activity, and/or increases in volcanic activity, ocean salinity or ice cap activity. A raise in temperature of 3 degrees is even more massive. Such a trend has never been observed to happen in geological history in the span of only 3 centuries. That takes hundreds of thousands of years. Unless there's a phenomenon like an extinction-level event comet strike or sudden exponential increases in volcanic activity (which has happened before). "we dont know how much of that is caused by human activity" We can measure by how much the atmospheric GHG composition has increased since the Industrial Age began compared to before then. And how much negative feedback has decreased due to changes in atmospheric composition and deforestation. Most scientists are convinced humans are responsible for 80-90% of the warming.
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  5722. deltaxcd - "we still have forest fires that also release great amount of co2" Excellent point. To be honest, fracking potentially poses to cause more environmental damage than typical factories. Methane is about 8x more potent than CO2 when it comes to positive feedback (as you noted). If fracking and drilling for natural gas (which includes huge amounts of methane) goes wrong....Even if it goes right it still release enough methane to nearly equal all the damage CO2 has done up to this point. "because water itself is greenhouse gas and if you increase temperature water concentration also increases" That's true too. But to release as much water vapor as has been done requires a large amount of CO2 or another GHG. An amount equivalent to a period of hypervolcanism (a rapid increase in global or regional volcanic activity, which has happened before in geological history). "increased very little like only 30% above natural level." It increased from about 165-180 ppm in the 1700s to about 400 ppm as of 2012. That's pretty damn hight but in the past 2 million years it has gotten naturally as high as 300 ppm (before Humanity ever showed up). Just not so fast. It usually takes a few thousand years for it to increase that much. "In any case there is nothing what can be done even if global warming is human made, we have no way to do anything neither we have any real reasons to care." That's the saddest thing about this whole conversation - it may ultimately be somewhat futile knowledge because, unfortunately, the political will to do anything won't occur until it's way past the point of no return (we may have already hit that point) and when it starts causing trillions in damage and loss to the global economy. Some companies are starting to care because some trends are starting to hurt some industries, but it may be too little too late.
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  5725. deltaxcd - "does it make any difference how fast it happens?" Very much so. That's like asking what's the difference between driving 15 mph and 200 mph. If a natural trend is occurring several hundreds of times faster than normal that's a huge cause for concern. That's reason for scientists to go "Okay...WTF is going on? Is this some new phenomenon we were previously unaware of or is something different here?" Which they did. The common denominator is that none of this seems to have occurred in Earth's history before Humans showed up and specifically not until the Industrial Revolution began in earnest. The only time anything close to this has happened was in cases where a huge meteor hit the Earth or volcanic activity increased exponentially. Neither of which is happening right now. If Humans are the main problem that also turns out to be a blessing in disguise: that means we can help to resolve the issue by modifying human activity. If it's just nature then there isn't much we can do. "I fail to see any references to disaster in your link" Sorry, wrong link: http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-positives-negatives.htm We're seeing the beginnings of the impact now already: http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/29/world/climate-change-vulnerability-index/ http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/sep/26/climate-change-damaging-global-economy "What is just perfect. because of trat northern countries can expect to get rid of frosts and snow" 1) Not necessarily. Climate changes causes temperatures to drop in some areas. Including the North: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/01/06/can-global-warming-be-real-if-its-cold-in-the-u-s-um-yes/ As ice caps melt it releases water vapor which can cause extreme winters. Especially as the released vapor affects pressure cells. Seems paradoxical on the surface but makes sense when you understand meteorology physics.  It doesn't mean winters will end. 2) It will be at the cost of half of NYC, Boston, Washington, D.C., etc. being underwater. Not at all a good trade-off. "that was huge savings on heating bills. It would be great to get rid of it completely" 1) That would be unlikely since climate change often causes wild fluctuations of weather in many areas. 2) What happened in your area isn't going to happen worldwide. The Earth doesn't have just 1 single type of environment. "This i not a big deal" Umm......that's trillions of dollars of property damage and a huge drop in domestic production.....Not to mention the damage it will do to some crops... "It is not like it will be so fast to drown anyone" Who says it will all be gradual? Some of it will be in the form of more storms like Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Sandy. 
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  5726. deltaxcd - "i don't see any problems if if i don't need coat next year and can walk in T-shirt during winter time" 1) That's not how global warming works. Global warming does not mean everywhere in the world is warm all-year round. Or that everywhere in the world is even warm. 2) It's more than just unseasonably warm weather. It's a climate change (climate is not weather) that drastically alters various biomes, causing large-scale environmental damage. Ex: The increase of forest fires in California due to warming. I think you need to educate yourself more on this topic. No offense. "but they become more fragmented" Some areas will have very short or mild winters while other areas of the world will have severe, long winters. The impact of climate change is uneven. "sure those who live in NYC will suffer great loses but  some will enjoy great profits." 1) Economics is interconnected. Industries aren't just a bunch of disconnected things. If the rubber industry is critically damaged, gains in the automotive industry won't make up for it. That's because those markets rely on each other. More steel for cars won't offset the fact you now have less tires (therefore rendering more cars useless). 2) Over time the losses would be in the trillions. Unless industries that can totally replace the lost ones crop up. 3) Displacing hundred of thousands or millions of people isn't fixable. That'll lead to urban overcrowding and a large increase in homelessness.  4) Climate change won't benefit most industries.  "If I am one who gets benefits from that global warming it makes no sense to fight against that" There aren't many industries that would benefit from global warming. Increased warming means higher heat and less water, thus less crops. It also can mean more flooding (which kills crops), more forest fires, etc. "those who caused global warming will have to pay with their own property" With our system they'll just have us taxpayers foot the bill to replace the damage. That's what the rich in the US pretty much always do these days. Just like we bailed them out in the Great Recession. "agriculture in my place enjoys great profits" Says whom? Agriculture tends to occur in places that would be most heavily damaged by climate change (coastal areas, river valleys and plains). Those would be the most damaged areas by flooding or harsh summers. "poor ones will not notice anything" Untrue. Many stand to lose more than rich countries: http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/sep/27/climate-change-poor-countries-ipcc They'll be the countries least able to bounce back from environmental and economic damage. "I see lots of opportunities" For every opportunity there would be like 5 or 6 equally bad problems. "global warming just makes them more frequent and slightly more intense" Having Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Sandy-style hurricanes every year (sometimes more than once a year) would be devastating for the American economy. Both of those hurricanes literally put a dent in our GDP for the year and helped inflate the national debt and budget deficit. Then there's also the increase in tornados in Tornado Alley and the increase in major floods that hurricanes bring with them...
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  5727. deltaxcd - "what I currently see is attempt to preserve status quo,  assuming that all we have now is great  and any change is bad" No, it's that the particular change going on has bad that far outweighs the good. Burning down an entire city has potential to be a good change. I don't think that's something you would honestly consider doing since the bad would likely outweigh the good. "but someone else will enjoy economy boom where new factory is built" 1) It's usually nowhere near that simple. If a resource is largely destroyed or reduced, even if a new factory is opened elsewhere the supply would go way down and prices would go way up. Driving down demand for the product. 2) Who says there will conveniently be another place to open a new factory? Some materials on Earth are local to one or a few specific places only. "it makes great opportunity to enter the market" That would only happen if the resource in question is interchangeable and abundant. That is not true with many resources. You can't outsource American solar cells or American crops. If 50% of American crops were destroyed some foods would go off the market entirely. Prices would skyrocket for many remaining ones, even if another country became the main producer, due to decreased supply. "but another areas will become usable" Says whom? This is an article of faith, not one of reality. If drinkable water sources dry up or become contaminated there is no other area drinkable water will pop up. Likewise with fishing the fish can't all just migrate elsewhere if large ecosystems and marine biomes are damaged. As you can see, the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages: http://geography.about.com/od/globalproblemsandissues/a/advantages.htm "Only warm climate countries will suffer" Untrue: http://www.climatecentral.org/news/in-global-warming-northern-hemisphere-is-outpacing-the-south-15850 "every problem is opportunity for someone" Also untrue. Has the nuclear meltdown in Ukraine in 1986 provided opportunity for many people? No. The few people it may have provided opportunity for did not outweigh the disadvantages it caused. Problems often don't create equal benefits that offset the problem. "I guess it is time to stop building paper houses.  Make solid concrete fortress which can last for 1000 years" That would cost hundred of billions if not trillions of dollars. Not to mention there is no political will to do such a thing. "and hurricanes will have no effect" Only way to do that would be to make every building a buried concrete bunker. It's unrealistic that the govt is going to convert hundreds of millions of buildings into those or only build those from now on. Not to mention that won't save you from the environmental damage. Even if your concrete house holds up it won't make up for your workplace being destroyed or crops being destroyed.
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  5728. deltaxcd - "however if city burns down naturally it is another story" 1) Either way the outcome is the same. 2) Since humans are the primary contributor to "nature" causing this it's our duty to reverse the damage. "and everything can be rebuilt into something completely new" Who says the "something new" will be a better thing or as good as the previous system? Also, not everything is fixable. Ghost towns usually aren't converted into something new. Sometimes when something is damaged that's it for good. "Of course there is not that much chance to be lucky one to catch your opportunity" If 1 million lives are damaged to make 10 better that's not at all a good trade-off. Even from a utilitarian standpoint the "opportunity" was worthless. Breaking your arm in order to get a cookie isn't worth the sacrifice. "yes you can outsource that too" No. You can't build your solar panels in other countries. Unless you've found a way to send the electrical energy across the ocean....Same way you can't outsource your garden onto someone else's lawn. "Americans will just have to work in sweatshops for 10$ a day" So where is the new opportunity or benefit? We were left worse off (being a 3rd world country). "If food prices skyrocket that is just great news if you are farmer or you have plans to become one" Not if supply (fertile lands) are gone. The reason the prices skyrocketed is because supply is gone due to much of the land being rendered non-arable. Can't be a farmer without arable land. "No I dont see anything scary" Did you even read the article? "Changes to agricultural production that can lead to food shortages. Water shortages in already water-scarce areas. Starvation, malnutrition, and increased deaths due to food and crop shortages. More extreme weather and an increased frequency of severe and catastrophic storms. Increased disease in humans and animals. Increased deaths from heat waves. Extinction of additional species of animals and plants. Loss of animal and plant habitats. Increased emigration of those from poorer or low-lying countries to wealthier or higher countries seeking better (or non-deadly) conditions. Additional use of energy resources for cooling needs. Increased air pollution. Increased allergy and asthma rates due to earlier blooming of plants." How are these "laughable"? Increased starvation and dehydration is "laughable"? Maybe if you don't need to eat or drink... "these are bulshit, not disadvantages" Insurance prices going up are "bullshit"? So what was all that ruckus about then with people claiming Obamacare would raise insurance rates since insurance prices going up is no big deal? "but painting it all in doom and gloom colors" This is science and economics. It's based on empirical data. It's not a painting of anything. Ignoring science and reality doesn't make it go away.
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  5729. deltaxcd - "we should have some sensible predictions" And pray tell what are these "sensible predictions", who makes them and what data did they use that's somehow more accurate or reliable than the data scientists and economists use? You mean ones that worry you less? You can't just ignore reality simply because reality is sometimes unnerving. That's what children do. "If you don't know what exactly is going to happen there is no point making gloomy predictions" Straw Man. Because you don't know exactly what will happen does not mean your predictions are dismissible. We don't know exactly what will happen if we raise the income tax rate to 95%. Does that mean all economic predictions about the effects are bullshit? Obviously not. That's what scientific data is about - making predictions based on observable data and trends. "Also water is not a problem anywhere  it is easy to desalinate sea water" No it isn't: http://environment.about.com/od/biodiversityconservation/a/desalination.htm http://globalwarmingisreal.com/2011/03/23/are-desalination-technologies-the-answer-to-the-world-water-crisis/ There's nothing easy about desalinating quadrillions of gallons of water per year. Please don't make such foolish proclamations about topics you aren't educated in. It's irksome. "It says that northern hemisphere will warm faster and that is good news" No it isn't. Increased forest fires, floods and hurricanes: https://climatedesk.org/2013/06/how-climate-change-makes-wildfires-worse/ "and hot climate areas will only slightly get hotter" The desertification of Northeast Africa is not a minor deal by any stretch of the imagination. What you said is untrue: http://www.livescience.com/23724-southern-hemisphere-drought.html It's already costing Australia billions of dollars in property damage from increased forest fires and drought. "Why you need political will to build your private house?" How are billions of people going to fortify their homes? Most of us don't have several millions of dollars lying around. "why do you involve government in that" How else are you going to convert buildings in cities to concrete bunkers? That costs money. Businesses aren't going to just do it on their own. Who's going to spend billions of dollars to fortify the Freedom Tower or the Willis Tower?
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  5730. deltaxcd - "Better or worse are subjective terms" Not always. The standards of living in industrialized countries are objectively better than in developing countries. Hence why most of us would not willingly not want to be poor in a developing country. "Europe takes the lead leaving US poor 3rd word state" That's true but: 1) That doesn't help us. 2) Climate change is an uneven and shifting phenomenon. Eventually countries left better off can suffer too and decline. "It is good enough for those 10.  But the point is that If I am one of these 10, I have no reason to fight that change" Those 10 are not self-sufficient. Unless you can produce everything yourself you're going to need those 1 million others. Where do you think rich people's money comes from? Their customers and employees. If their customers can't buy and their employees are dead or can't work the owner is fucked. "if that 1 million wants me to get involved they have to compensate my loss and pay some extra" They'll more likely just kill you and take it. "The benefit is for those who are 3rd world countries today, because they may get lucky to have US people working for them instead" Sadly, 3rd world countries are more likely to be hit harder than countries like the US. "and yes you can outsource your garden, that's what we all do. You pay someone else to grow food for you" That's farming, not gardening. You can outsource a farm (to an extent). Not a garden. You can outsource production of panels, but you can't outsource the collection of energy.
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  5731. deltaxcd - "typically yes, objectively no," In what ways are developing countries objectively better off? "I bet you can find someone who thinks that this claims is false." Thinking is not objectivity. That's subjectivity. Their opinion is not objective. "You area may flourish for few decades and turn into ghost town later" Exactly. That's why "opportunity" does not necessarily offset loss. And every loss does not have a significant opportunity. When you die there is no opportunity for the dead person. "Actually we can produce pretty much everything ourselves" The most you could do for yourself is live like the Unabomber in the woods. Even he still had to rely on others for some things. He still had to go to town and buy things built by society. Or rely on others to deliver things (like mail). "most of people are just work drones, and can be replaced easily" That goes for owners as well. Also, there is no point to changing labor if the resources aren't there. "and move to another area with all their capital" 1) That costs a lot of money. 2) That doesn't work if there is no other ready area waiting. "where US business is getting transferred. and Chinese work drones take jobs from US work drones" Prices haven't dropped and quality has arguably suffered due to outsourcing. So, I wouldn't say it's an even trade. Again, "opportunity" is not synonymous with "hope" or "good".  "Definitely not" Haha. I'm sure the French and Russian monarchs said the same thing before the French and Russian Revolutions.  "They do not even have any willpower to save themselves" They lack resources, not willpower. You can't survive on will alone. Will won't allow you to live for 50 days without food or water, will it? No.  The rich and owners don't have any more willpower than anyone else. Just resources. Willpower won't protect you from a revolt. You can't will the attackers away. "and there is nothing to take" Money, Food, Supplies, Water, etc.... "If you want me to produce less CO2 please provide men alternative energy source" That's the problem: The industries largely DO NOT WANT TO PRODUCE LESS CO2. As long as it makes them money they don't care. They've actively tried to crush and stifle investment in alternative energy. It's not that no one is offering alternative energy - they don't want it because it could potentially cause some businesses to go out of business. "I will not do that in my own effort against my interest so that you can maintain your lifestyle." And likewise we won't go against our own interests (jobs, life, income, etc.) so you can maintain your lifestyle (profit margins). Ultimately the minority loses. "and my interest is to speed up global warming not to stop it" Which ultimately harms your interests as well (you think you won't lose out?). You're cutting off your own nose to spite your face. Not very smart at all. "I do not see difference between farming and gardening" Farming produces for others. Gardening produces for yourself. "and what can prevent you from installing solar panels?" Zoning. Barriers to entry to the market. Monopolies. Tax issues. etc.
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  5732. deltaxcd - "also when you live you own certain area/ job/ material property, which is freed upon your death" But the resources aren't replenished just because you're gone, and resource aren't always renewed. "If there is no competition price does not matter much as long as my product is competitively priced" How can it be competitively priced if there is no competition? And since when do internal markets within a nation not have competition? "actually without other countries spoiling Russian and African tyrant dictators people would not be facing these problems that they face now" What African or Russian tyrants were removed with foreign help? "also global warming does not remove resources from earth." If crops get drowned from flooding, that's a resource removed. Also, oil and natural gas are not infinite. "If it happens that people in that land die or get extinct so better, nobody will resit extraction" Resit? What? "Nobody is taking anything" Impossible. By gaining something it has to come from somewhere else. It's impossible to not take. Unless you're creating out of thin air. "I will move to another area with all my knowledge and machinery" Knowledge and machinery don't create arable land. Yes, you are taking. You need water and arable land, among other things. If the land is not arable you need to take water and fertilizer from somewhere or someone else. "Considering that this new area was unsuitable for farming earlier, there will be no competition for me" There's a reason farmers aren't moving to the Sahara or the Boreal Forests to farm. Can you guess why? "My new society will also enjoy my services and taxes i pay" What services? There's no farming in areas without arable land. Guess what happened to American farmers during the Dust Bowl? Did they magically create a new place to farm? Nope. "taxes i pay" Farmers don't pay most of the taxes. "My old employees will lose job and all income and will be left with nothing on that empty useless land." Which means you also lost your customers since they now have "nothing". So how are you going to sell anything? Economics 101. Do you understand how it works? Evidently not.
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  5734. deltaxcd - "where it tells that Siberia may become usable for farming." Can you quote that? Not sure which link you're referring to. And who says the Russia govt would allow you to farm there? "and I don't care about africa" So? Not caring about something doesn't change the facts. If you don't care about gravity that doesn't make it go away or become irrelevant.  "1 there are." Where? "2 not necessary" Yes it is. If it's worse than the last you lose profit. Losing profits = going out of business eventually. "3. most will bankrupt but few will survive" The few people who can still farm in North Africa didn't help anything. Now they barely have enough to support themselves anymore. So, again, you didn't solve anything. "I don't know but I know that all Irish farmers moved to america" Many did, but not all. They moved here because the US had more liberal laws than, say, China. China wouldn't let American farmers move there en masse. "I will be one who will let them" Who says they'll be moving here? "that's the whole beauty of this global warming" What sources are saying farming will increase or improve with global warming? Scientists are saying the opposite: http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/impacts-adaptation/agriculture.html http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/05/climate-change-agriculture-study/1893455/ Let's deal with reality. Not your fantasy world. "You will have no choice but to come and beg us to allow to use our land" North Africa still isn't begging Americans to come farm there, as bad off as they are. And how can you beg people to use what you don't have? If land becomes non-arable farmers can't use it. If a country has land still usable for farming they won't beg foreigners to come and use it. They'll use it themselves. Think.
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  5737. deltaxcd - "No, that is definition of competitor unless they are in some cartel." You know nothing about Economics. That's called a "Horizontal Industry" or "Vertical Industry". "I just said I don't want competitors to exist" That's called a "Monopoly". Monopolies are usually shitty. "that was the whole idea that global warming in my area give more good than bad" The problem is that's false. It would be more bad than good for just about all areas. "But it will be ideal if it gets warmer cold is primary disadvantage now." No it won't. Getting warmer would bring its own problems that would harm your industry. "I personalty will not benefit that much but my area will benefit." Your area won't benefit much either. Deal with reality. "Russia is left on whole globe it has all necessary materials and resources to survive" No it doesn't. Russia imports tens and hundreds of billions of dollars worth of goods per year. Obviously it doesn't have everything it needs to be self-sufficient. "when you go bankrupt all your assets are sold anyway." That usually doesn't pay off all your debts. "according to basic economy prices rise when supply is less than demand" The problem is food for demand doesn't decrease. That's basic economics. Also, no, prices will eventually fall if demand is much less than the supply. If there is not enough people buying prices are dropped to entice people to start buying. "this is only valid if some replacement is available but there is not really possible to replace food with anything." I'm talking about the more expensive foods. Demands for more affordable foods will never decrease very substantially. "this food is already on the bottom of price list" And prices for it will rise with a shortage.
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  5750. blueuclabag - "Liar. Most judges are women!" Source please? "So what if most politicians are men? So because most politicians and bankers are men... what does that mean?" That means they have no fucking motive to go along with a radical anti-male agenda, dipshit. Why would all these men supposedly go along with an anti-male agenda? What do they have to gain from it being men themselves? What would they have to gain? Also, if most judges are women, so what? What does that mean? Is there are problem with most judges being women? "Are these politicians and bankers purposely trying to better the lives of men while making it harder for women?" Human Nature. People tend to look out for their "own" more than they look out for "The Other". It's a conscious or unconscious habit for many humans. It's the reason why white male Christian conservatives tend to make up the majority of the elite and the powerful and the highest-paid. Unless you honestly think white Christian conservative men are just better workers and better qualified than everyone else in the country. Studies unabashedly show there is also a Racial Hiring Discrimination trend. This is likely conscious for some employers but for some it's unconscious. It may be a conscious or unconscious habit that some white employers would take a chance with a guy with only a high school diploma named "Brent Worthington" over a college grad named "Raekwon Jamal Washington". "And don't give me any shit on abortion rights because there are an equal amount of women in this country who oppose abortion as much as men do" I know. Though that doesn't make it any less of an attack on women's rights. There are some black and nonwhite Hispanic Americans who support the Republican Party despite it's borderline racist (or implicitly racist) policies and sometimes fairly openly racist rhetoric. That doesn't mean the GOP doesn't have a big problem with racism. "Women are not oppressed" Uh...."oppressed" is a bit of a heavy word to use, but women are certainly disadvantaged overall compared to men. Just not nearly to the extent in the West as women are in the Developing World. Blacks, Hispanics, gays, transgendered people, etc. are also disadvantaged.
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  5751. blueuclabag - "There is a reason why physics students mock you psychology, and social studies/science majors" You? You don't know me from Adam, kid. I'm an Econ major, not a Psych or Social Studies major. Anyways, and Business majors/MBAs mock Physics geeks. Know why? Because that's an age-old trend among college grads. They always think their field is superior. What's your point? An attempt at Argument From Authority? Because you personally consider Physics to be a "better" field it automatically invalidates anything anyone in the Psych or Social Studies field has to say? Not like you could prove that Physics is "better" anyway, since this is subjective. All these fields serve their own purposes. Social Studies majors didn't invent the gender wage gap, it was an economic/financial/tax trend noticed by Economists (like me) in the 60s and 70s as women moved into the workplace. "People like you make the argument that psychology, sociology and such are more difficult than studies like physics because human beings are so complex to understand that... blah blah blah" Again, you don't know "people like me". I don't argue that either field is "more difficult" or inherently more valuable. They all play their parts. "Rape Culture" was a word invented in Sociology, but they didn't invent the trend. It was a trend noticed by the legal system. People accused of rape would drag up the rape victim's behavior and sexual history to prove the rape victim was "asking for it" or somehow brought the rape onto themselves. It was a trend Prosecutors noticed in Jurors. Sociologists just gave that trend a name.
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  5778. Honestman400 - "My quote came from a book" What page? I cited that book in my second-to-last link and it appears to disagree with you. Could you give me the page number to help resolve this? "You do know what a book is, don't you?" Of course, smart-ass. Now, the next question is: What makes that source better than any of the sources I referenced? "the one definition out of the pile which can, with a lot of imaginative interpretation seem to fit what you want to believe" ANY definition you pick requires "imaginative interpretation" if you want to put it that way. Yours included since there are weaknesses with your interpretation - since translating "genea" strictly as referring to 30 years or so would cause some other verses in the New Testament to make less sense translated that way into English. "what you want to believe" Since I'm not religious I have no stake in this argument. It's not about what I want to believe, it's about linguistic facts. You do know what facts are, correct? I have no stake in simpering Christian Biblical apologetics, or to help buttress your anti-Christian agenda either (which seems to be your goal). "even though other writings in the New testament make if plain that the disciples and Paul make it perfectly clear that they expected Jesus to come back in their lifetime." Not really. There are verses in the New Testament implying Jesus' return could be in the future. See  Matthew 24:36, Matthew 24:44, 2 Timothy, 1 John, etc. You yourself hinted at that earlier when you said this: "However, when they realised that he wasn't coming, that's when all the many and varied "predictions" of the "imminent" second coming started to appear" --Honestman400 Yes, some of the Apostles certainly did appear to believe Jesus would return in their lifetime. Others did not seem to. The Apostles varied in opinion on some matters, they weren't a hive-mind.
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  5881. Xzamilloh - "Who cares" You responded. Apparently you and the people who thumbed up your comment care. "If there was a "rational-minded" philosophy concerning a god, where is it?" Your ignorance of Philosophy is not my problem. Why not look up Spinoza's God, or Einstein's "God", or Giordano Bruno's God, or Paul Tillich's "God"? Or other outlooks like Ignosticism or Transtheism. Hell, even philosophy like Thomas Aquinas or Maimonides' conceptions of "God". Not agreeing with them does not make them "irrational". "Who cares if you can rationally define a god?" It matters a great fucking deal since one cannot say one is a "theist" or "atheist" or anything else unless they can rationally define a "god" first. How can you believe or not believe in what you can't even say? "I can rationally define an invisible green monkey that lives in my poop" Is there any other way to define such a thing? That is not at all ambiguous. "God" is a far, far more vague and ambiguous term and concept. It's the same problem with Russell's Teapot analogy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot#Objections "but they aren't the ones riding platforms of "family values" while kissing married staffers or toe-tapping for dingaling at bathroom airports" Ooookay....I never argued they were and I don't disagree with you there. You're arguing against something I never argued for. "Yay, you're a progressive Christian.." No I'm not. I'm not even religious. This is what happens when you ASS-U-ME. "and when you modernize religion, you strip it of its dogma and make it secular nonsense that doesn't require appeals to superstition" 1) Liberal/Progressive Christians are nothing new. They've been around as long as Christianity has existed. Right-wing Fundamentalists and Evangelicals are far newer overall (a movement only around 200 or so years old). Arguably the theoretical founder (Jesus) himself was a super-progressive, borderline communist.  2) Dogma? Christianity never had a unified dogma (other than Jesus being important). Thousands of different sects and denominations. Some of what we call "modernization" is actually just Christian views that have always existed becoming more popular or mainstream. Not to mention religions usually change over time. 3) Even if the part I quoted is correct, is this a bad thing? I think it's a GOOD THING that religion has evolved among some people. I wish it happened to more religious people. "face it, religion and gods are on the decline" Depends. It's on the decline in some places and on the rise in others. That really doesn't have anything to do with my post though. It looks like you just devolved into an anti-religion rant only tangentially related to what I said. Was that therapeutic for you?
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  5901. Joseph Scott - Actually, Inflation is worse for consumers than sellers. Deflation is worse for sellers than consumers. Deflation lowers prices but it also lowers relative profit margins which can lower supply and eventually employment. Inflation raises production prices but also increases selling prices which increases profit margins but reduces consumer demand. Reduced demand eventually lowers profits in the long-run and can lower employment with lower demand. "You act as if we live in a world where overhead doesn't exist" Most overhead is simply administrative profit. Overhead DOES NOT HAVE to be as high as it is a lot of the time. In 1970 average business profit margins were more than 4x lower than they are today (average business Profit Margins have increased more than fourfold since 1970). Did it cause most businesses to go out of business? No. Your argument is false because it assumes that any decrease in profit margins or overhead prices will cause the business to go under. "and destroy the small businesses that can not" Another false argument. The majority of small businesses can afford a $10-15 MW (most people aren't suggesting putting it any higher than $12-15/hour). http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/economics/item/15200-new-poll-shows-small-business-owners-favor-raising-minimum-wage Any business that cannot afford to pay its workers what they're actually worth is a business that needs to go under. It can be replaced by a business that can afford to pay workers what they're worth and comply with the law. An increased MW would aid most small businesses because it would increase demand for their products: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/abrams/2014/01/16/small-business-raising-minimum-wage/4505605/ The Trickle-Down Economics cult seems to forget that workers are also consumers. Workers having more money = increased demand as they spend more money.
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  5934. I think because left-wingers on average tend to have much higher levels of empathy, tolerance and openness to disagreement or difference than right-wingers, a lot of Progressives/Liberals are TOO understanding of their enemies who are actively trying to harm them. Some of them default to apologizing because they have a tendency to err on the side of maybe they're misunderstanding the other side and they need to be tolerant of the other side's beliefs or claims. Or they get an image in their head that the people attacking them are poor creatures suffering from some emotional disturbance and they just need our patience, love, empathy and understanding. Or they acquiesce to letting injustices against themselves go in the name of being the bigger adult. There is a season for that stuff, but that's not something you need to ALWAYS do. Not every asshole is just a poor schmuck who was abused as a kid and just needs a hug. Not everyone who opposes you has a point and you just need to be understanding of them. And even if your enemy is an adult who had unfortunate life experiences or lacks education, that doesn't mean YOU need to be the one to pet them. This isn't Dr. Phil, this is the real world. Some people are just fucking assholes or hard-asses out to destroy you and no amount of empathy and petting in the world will make them stop or leave you alone or make them a better person. Some people are lost causes (like hardcore racists, serial killers, etc.) and even if they aren't a lost cause it's not your burden to let them beat on you in the hopes it'll make them feel bad and eventually stop. STAND UP FOR YOUR FUCKING SELF! This is when Lefties need to be more like Righties in the sense of putting your empathy away, growing a pair and drawing a clear line in the sand and not letting them step over it like Gandalf vs the Balrog.
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  5944. supbrotv - "They are free to own property,they are free to earn their own money, they dont pay taxes" 1) The vast majority of people in those societies don't own any property. Only a small percentage of society does, usually even less than in capitalist societies. In Communist states workers often have a small degree of democratic control over their factories. So, in both societies there is very limited property ownership. The societies with maximum property ownership tend to be the libertarian socialist societies or early democratic socialist ones (like the Soviet Union in its first 5 years where companies were owned jointly by workers before the State took over everything). 2) People earn their own money in Communist systems as well. They're just paid from a difference source. 3) Don't pay taxes? Monarchist societies DEFINITELY have taxes. Where did you hear otherwise? Unlike Western capitalist societies they don't get anything back for their taxes. We at least get social services and infrastructure. They have dirt roads and dirty well water. "they can go anywhere" Not at all. You have to get permission to go outside of the country and you're not allowed to travel in areas the govt says is off-limits. "have equal rights for both men and women" .....On what planet? These countries are religious fundamentalist states. Women cannot own property without male permission, cannot get divorced, cannot drive, cannot pursue rape charges, can't go anywhere without a male, cannot testify against men in court, etc. Do you live on the same Earth as us? Just checking.... "have night clubs, malls" For tourists. The vast majority of the citizens don't go. North Korea, China, Cuba, etc. have malls and night clubs as well. Most people can't go there (except for maybe China and to a lesser degree Cuba).
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  5946. supbrotv - So far you haven't listed the ways in which they're "far better". 90% of the freedoms that are lacked in Communist states are lacked in monarchies as well. Many of the freedoms you claimed they have wasn't even accurate. "Then i pointed out the benefits they have OVER a communist state" "then you just started making stuff up about the middle east!" 1) Most modern monarchies are in the Middle East. There aren't many outside of that region, which is why the Middle East was my focus. Likewise, your main focus has been North Korea even though it's not the only "Communist" state. 2) I didn't make anything up. Everything I said is accurate and can be confirmed easily. "they are free to live where they want,they are free to buy what they want" People do that in Communist countries as well. "are free to use the internet,they are free to watch movies" People do that in Communist states as well. You think there is no Internet in China or Cuba and no movies? China is one of the world's biggest movie pirating countries and has a huge movie industry. Even during Mao's time. -__- "they are free to talk to each other they are free to party" People don't talk to each other and party in Cuba, China, Vietnam, etc.? If you think so you're sorely mistaken. XD  "And they cant kill their neighbours for blasphemy,killing have been illegal since the 1940s" What country is this? Killing for blasphemy is VERY legal in Saudi Arabia! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Saudi_Arabia It's also legal to kill or imprison people for blasphemy in Yemen, Iran, Jordan, Malaysia, UAE and Kuwait. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law
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  5954. supbrotv - "But your claims about life in north korea and myanmar being better than UAE" I said no such thing. Directly quote where I said life in Myanmar and North Korea is better than life in UAE. I specifically said from jump street that UAE is about as bad as living in a Communist state. So now you're either flat-out lying, have poor reading comprehension or horrible memory. Which is it? Also, the Economic Freedom Index is performed by only 1 non-governmental organization with 1 ideological slant. That's highly biased. The personal freedom index is a collection of indexes by several organizations, which minimizes bias.  "BTW ireland has lower government regulations and taxation than most european countries" According to whom? "which makes it easier for anyone to start and run a business and keep more profit for themselves" False. American business owners keep FAR more profits than Irish business owners. The average American CEO earns 460 times what the average employee earns. The average Irish CEO earns nowhere near that much a higher rate. The average American business pays only 14-18% effective taxes. The average Irish business pays closer to 25% effective taxes. http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/654957.pdf "Oh and singapore also placed the list for being one of the top 5 least corrupt countries in the world" You talking about this index? It's a very flimsy index: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#Criticism You can't even quantify or directly measure its rankings.
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  5966. hozehd - That's far more than fuzzy around the edges, that's lacking a real group to begin with. Your response indicates to me you probably didn't even read the scientific articles I linked. "PC too even acknowledge what is blatantly obvious" What's "blatantly obvious"? Because a group of people share a skin color does not mean they're closely related. It's like arguing that it's "blatantly obvious" that the Sun revolves around the Earth because it moves in the sky. "that the vast majority of peoples on earth can be pretty clearly grouped this way" Based on what? There is no cranium type the majority of Africans, Europeans or Asians share. Here, I'll quote some of the meat of the matter for you: "I would suggest that there are very few who, of their own experience, have actually perceived at first hand the nature of human variation. What we know of the characteristics of the various regions of the world we have largely gained vicariously and in misleadingly spotty fashion. Pictures and the television camera tell us that the people of Oslo in Norway, Cairo in Egypt, and Nairobi in Kenya look very different. And when we actually meet natives of those separate places, which can indeed happen, we can see representations of those differences at first hand. But if one were to walk up beside the Nile from Cairo, across the Tropic of Cancer to Khartoum in the Sudan and on to Nairobi, there would be no visible boundary between one people and another. The same thing would be true if one were to walk north from Cairo, through the Caucasus, and on up into Russia, eventually swinging west across the northern end of the Baltic Sea to Scandinavia. The people at any adjacent stops along the way look like one another more than they look like anyone else since, after all, they are related to one another. As a rule, the boy marries the girl next door throughout the whole world, but next door goes on without stop from one region to another. We realize that in the extremes of our transit—Moscow to Nairobi, perhaps—there is a major but gradual change in skin color from what we euphemistically call white to black, and that this is related to the latitudinal difference in the intensity of the ultraviolet component of sunlight. What we do not see, however, is the myriad other traits that are distributed in a fashion quite unrelated to the intensity of ultraviolet radiation. Where skin color is concerned, all the northern populations of the Old World are lighter than the long-term inhabitants near the equator. Although Europeans and Chinese are obviously different, in skin color they are closer to each other than either is to equatorial Africans. But if we test the distribution of the widely known ABO blood-group system, then Europeans and Africans are closer to each other than either is to Chinese." Has nothing to do with Political Correctness, everything to do with Scientific Accuracy. You criticize science yet you're too lazy to even read what scientists are saying. "but people who claim that that claim that there is no genetic or biologic reality to race" Or course there are genetic and biological differences between different populations of humans. However, none of these are analogous to a "Race". If you want to treat these groups as "races" there would be over 300 human "races" as there are over 300 major population clines. They would also not be strongly be based on skin color or facial features. For instance, if you want to consider these biological or genetic groups "races", Frenchmen and Cameroonians would be the same "race", or sub-races of each other, since they both belong to Haplogroup R1b. Egyptians, Ethiopians, Somalis, Arabs, Berbers, Spaniards, Greeks and Italians would be the same "race". Italians would be a distinct race from neighboring Swiss people, closer to Egyptians and Somalis would be a distinct race from Kenyans, etc. "are bat shit crazy cultists." So the scientific consensus is a batshit crazy cult? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification) "Even though there is a broad scientific agreement that essentialist and typological conceptualizations of race are untenable, scientists around the world continue to conceptualize race in widely differing ways, some of which have essentialist implications. While some researchers sometimes use the concept of race to make distinctions among fuzzy sets of traits, others in the scientific community suggest that the idea of race often is used in a naive or simplistic way, and argue that, among humans, race has no taxonomic significance by pointing out that all living humans belong to the same species, Homo sapiens and subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens."
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  5968. hozehd - "Western Europeans are genetically more similar to Western Europeans than West Africans" False: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)#Ancestrally_differentiated_populations http://www.nature.com/index.html?file=/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1435.html "Approximately 85−90% of genetic variation is found within these continental groups, and only an additional 10−15% of variation is found between them18, 19, 20 (Table 1). In other words, approx 90% of total genetic variation would be found in a collection of individuals from a single continent, and only approx 10% more variation would be found if the collection consisted of Europeans, Asians and Africans." http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)#Fixation_index Like all humans in terms of genetic biodiversity Western Europeans are more genetically similar to non-Europeans than they are to other Europeans. In terms of genetic distance some Europeans are genetically closer to non-European populations than they are to other European groups: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1893020/ "However, in a reanalysis of data from 377 microsatellite loci typed in 1056 individuals, Europeans proved to be more similar to Asians than to other Europeans 38% of the time (Bamshad et al. 2004; population definitions and data from Rosenberg et al. 2002)." "Also the whole more genetic difference within then between groups is a red herring it doesn't mean anything" It means members of these groups are usually more similar overall to members outside of the group. Hence they're not a "Race". How can you be a "race" with a group of people when you're more similar to people outside of your so-called "race"? In what sense would the people be a "race" anymore? Again, your worldview would require stretching the definition of "Race" to the point of being vague enough where it basically means nothing.
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  5969. hozehd - Yes, I've seen that. Witherspoon et al had a rebuttal to Edwards (and Lewontin): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewontin%27s_fallacy#Response_to_Edwards "Witherspoon et al. conclude that, "Since an individual's geographic ancestry can often be inferred from his or her genetic makeup, knowledge of one's population of origin should allow some inferences about individual genotypes. To the extent that phenotypically important genetic variation resembles the variation studied here, we may extrapolate from genotypic to phenotypic patterns. [...] However, the typical frequencies of alleles responsible for common complex diseases remain unknown. The fact that, given enough genetic data, individuals can be correctly assigned to their populations of origin is compatible with the observation that most human genetic variation is found within populations, not between them. It is also compatible with our finding that, even when the most distinct populations are considered and hundreds of loci are used, individuals are frequently more similar to members of other populations than to members of their own population. Thus, caution should be used when using geographic or genetic ancestry to make inferences about individual phenotypes" "and warn that, "A final complication arises when racial classifications are used as proxies for geographic ancestry. Although many concepts of race are correlated with geographic ancestry, the two are not interchangeable, and relying on racial classifications will reduce predictive power still further."
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  5971. hozehd - "It's just that it borders on not being a rebuttal at all since he agrees with Edwards findings" You appear not have to have read it thoroughly for understanding since they said Edwards' findings do not prove that Race exists and don't truly conflict with or discredit Lewontin's findings. Again: "Witherspoon et al. conclude that, "Since an individual's geographic ancestry can often be inferred from his or her genetic makeup, knowledge of one's population of origin should allow some inferences about individual genotypes. To the extent that phenotypically important genetic variation resembles the variation studied here, we may extrapolate from genotypic to phenotypic patterns. [...] However, the typical frequencies of alleles responsible for common complex diseases remain unknown. The fact that, given enough genetic data, individuals can be correctly assigned to their populations of origin is compatible with the observation that most human genetic variation is found within populations, not between them. It is also compatible with our finding that, even when the most distinct populations are considered and hundreds of loci are used, individuals are frequently more similar to members of other populations than to members of their own population. Thus, caution should be used when using geographic or genetic ancestry to make inferences about individual phenotypes..." "...and warn that, "A final complication arises when racial classifications are used as proxies for geographic ancestry. Although many concepts of race are correlated with geographic ancestry, the two are not interchangeable, and relying on racial classifications will reduce predictive power still further." Both Lewontin and Edwards' findings are simultaneously true and both are compatible with Race not be a taxomically sound classification with modern Homo sapiens sapiens. Which is the scientific consensus.
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  5972. hozehd - "Its not the scientific consensus" Yes it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification) "Starting from the 19th century, the term was often used, in a taxonomic sense, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype. Social conceptions and groupings of races vary over time, involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of individuals based on perceived traits. Scientists consider biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical and behavioral traits. While some researchers sometimes use the concept of race to make distinctions among fuzzy sets of traits, others in the scientific community suggest that the idea of race often is used in a naive or simplistic way, and argue that, among humans, race has no taxonomic significance by pointing out that all living humans belong to the same species, Homo sapiens and subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)#U.S._anthropology "The "Statement on 'Race'" (1998) composed by a select committee of anthropologists and issued by the executive board of the American Anthropological Association as a statement they "believe [...] represents generally the contemporary thinking and scholarly positions of a majority of anthropologists"" "its liberal theology" If you're now reduced to relying on paranoid conspiracy theories then your argument is out of gas. It's the scientific consensus for the same reason the Law of Gravity, the Theory of Evolution, the Big Bang Theory and Anthropogenic Climate Change are all scientific consensus - that's the conclusion the majority of the evidence leads to and those are the theories that are most compatible with all observed data and evidence. These theories are consensus because that's what the empirical data shows. "Wackos like Lewontin" 1) Ad Hominem is the last resort of a desperate person. 2) What makes him a "whacko"? He is correct (as is Edwards).
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  5973. hozehd - "Edwards destroys that idea" No he doesn't. Edwards' observations are completely compatible with Lewontin's observations and are completely compatible with Race not being a biological reality or valid taxonomical category with modern Homo sapiens: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewontin%27s_Fallacy#Response_to_Edwards "Witherspoon et al. conclude that, "Since an individual's geographic ancestry can often be inferred from his or her genetic makeup, knowledge of one's population of origin should allow some inferences about individual genotypes. To the extent that phenotypically important genetic variation resembles the variation studied here, we may extrapolate from genotypic to phenotypic patterns. [...] However, the typical frequencies of alleles responsible for common complex diseases remain unknown. The fact that, given enough genetic data, individuals can be correctly assigned to their populations of origin is compatible with the observation that most human genetic variation is found within populations, not between them. It is also compatible with our finding that, even when the most distinct populations are considered and hundreds of loci are used, individuals are frequently more similar to members of other populations than to members of their own population. Thus, caution should be used when using geographic or genetic ancestry to make inferences about individual phenotypes", and warn that, "A final complication arises when racial classifications are used as proxies for geographic ancestry. Although many concepts of race are correlated with geographic ancestry, the two are not interchangeable, and relying on racial classifications will reduce predictive power still further." "The view that while geographic clustering of biological traits does exist this does not lend biological validity to racial groups was proposed by several evolutionary anthropologists and geneticists prior to the publication of Edwards critique of Lewontin."
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  5974. hozehd - "Several does not a consensus make" True, but that's not where it spoke on the consensus. The consensus was in the quote here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification) "Starting from the 19th century, the term was often used, in a taxonomic sense, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype. Social conceptions and groupings of races vary over time, involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of individuals based on perceived traits. Scientists consider biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical and behavioral traits. While some researchers sometimes use the concept of race to make distinctions among fuzzy sets of traits, others in the scientific community suggest that the idea of race often is used in a naive or simplistic way, and argue that, among humans, race has no taxonomic significance by pointing out that all living humans belong to the same species, Homo sapiens and subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens." "There is obviously still debate in the scientific community in places" The debate in the scientific community is mostly over how solidly ethno-geographic self-identification matches up with genetics and Haplogroup typing and how predictive ethnicity or regional population grouping can be for medical purposes. Not over whether the old 19th century races actually exist after all or not. That kind of flew out the window with the discovery of DNA. XD Don't hold you breath for scientists to make some discovery that makes them say "Oh, you know what? Those guys back in the 1700s and 1800s were actually pretty accurate. Our modern technology just got us all confused. Our bad. The guys in the 19th century were right after all." Unless the definition of "Race" is changed YET AGAIN to be synonymous with "Haplogroup". Which would make the word "race" meaningless since that would mean there would be well over 300 human "races" with members who phenotypically don't even look similar (like Chadic-speaking West Africans and Western Europeans, who both belong to the R1b Y-DNA Haplogroup). "where it hasn't been outlawed as hate speech" Where would that be? Racialists like Jensen and Rushton hadn't been outlawed and still spoke freely within the scientific community.
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  5979. hozehd - So, I'll ask again. This pretty much sums up the current scientific consensus: The consensus was in the quote here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification) "Starting from the 19th century, the term was often used, in a taxonomic sense, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype. Social conceptions and groupings of races vary over time, involving folk taxonomies that define essential types of individuals based on perceived traits. Scientists consider biological essentialism obsolete, and generally discourage racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical and behavioral traits. While some researchers sometimes use the concept of race to make distinctions among fuzzy sets of traits, others in the scientific community suggest that the idea of race often is used in a naive or simplistic way, and argue that, among humans, race has no taxonomic significance by pointing out that all living humans belong to the same species, Homo sapiens and subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens." Who has disproved this to be the case? Your only response was: "There is obviously still debate in the scientific community in places" --hozehd To which I said:  "The debate in the scientific community is mostly over how solidly ethno-geographic self-identification matches up with genetics and Haplogroup typing and how predictive ethnicity or regional population grouping can be for medical purposes. Not over whether the old 19th century races actually exist after all or not. That kind of flew out the window with the discovery of DNA. XD Don't hold you breath for scientists to make some discovery that makes them say "Oh, you know what? Those guys back in the 1700s and 1800s were actually pretty accurate. Our modern technology just got us all confused. Our bad. The guys in the 19th century were right after all." Unless the definition of "Race" is changed YET AGAIN to be synonymous with "Haplogroup". Which would make the word "race" meaningless since that would mean there would be well over 300 human "races" with members who phenotypically don't even look similar (like Chadic-speaking West Africans and Western Europeans, who both belong to the R1b Y-DNA Haplogroup)." --A86 You never responded.
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  5980. hozehd - "I have responded over and over to this Wikipedia link that you have posted 20 times now as if it is the scientific consensus" This was your last response on that topic before veering off into conspiracy theories that "race realists" are being persecuted and silenced: "Several does not a consensus make.  There is obviously still debate in the scientific community in places where it hasn't been outlawed as hate speech yet." --hozehd "Just because you find something on the internets doesn't make it the scientific consensus" True. What makes it the scientific consensus is because that's what the majority of scientists polled profess to and what scientific organizations have put out as their official stance: http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/Lieberman2001CA.pdf http://www.virginia.edu/woodson/courses/aas102%20%28spring%2001%29/articles/AAPA_race.pdf It's not just because teh Internets said so. "Racial classifications don't have to directly coincide with 300 haplo groups in order to be useful in the medical field or anywhere else" True. However, their medical usefulness: 1) Doesn't correlate well with most "racialist" concepts of race. Ex: West Africans often have different propensities and genetic maladies than East Africans. These conditions also overlap what most racialists consider "races". Ex: Arabs are almost as prone to Sickle-Cell Anemia as Central Africans. That means Central Africans and Arabs would have to be the same "race" if you want to use medical usefulness of genetic maladies as evidence "race" exists biologically. 2) The medical usefulness simply reduces "race" to regional ancestry genetics. Not a supra-national/continental homogeneity (what most "race realists" are attempting to prove). To date there's no gene or condition unique and universal to all "black people" or "white people". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)#Biomedicine
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  5981. hozehd - "Having 1 racial group isn't helpful at all, its just giving up in the name of political correctness" Part of the problem is people like yourself often seem to not even fully understand the scientific position you're criticizing. Race not existing does not mean no genetic groups or populations exist within Humans either. I doubt you'll find many scientists deny that Middle Eastern populations often share similar genes, clines and genetic maladies, for example.  I think you have this strawman that most scientists are arguing that Humans are all genetically identical with no genetic grouping structure. That's not what they're saying. "Liberal egalitarians came out of the wood work to cherry pick data" And again with the tin-foil hat conspiracy theories. That's the same bullshit conservatives pitch to explain away why Evolution and Anthropogenic Climate Change are the scientific consensus. They almost always invoke some mythical librul cabal that arose out of the mists (they can never pinpoint at what point they arose, how they gained so much power and why their opponents are unable to debunk them). The scientific consensus that race doesn't exist biologically is able to back its data with overwhelming empirical data. You had no sufficient response to Witherspoon's response to Edwards, showing that Edwards' discoveries didn't truly conflict with Lewontin's discoveries and that Edwards' discoveries failed to prove that "race" existed either. After that point your only response to Witherspoon and Lewontin's data was: "Its not the scientific consensus its liberal theology. Wackos like Lewontin have done their best to further their social agenda with bad science." --hozedh There is no "liberal egalitarian PC mafia" suppressing data. Race Realists aren't taken seriously because when rebutted their only response, most of the time, is to simply go "Nope! You're wrong, I'm still right. You're just being PC. I'm done talking. Fuck you." like you did. "cherry pick data and try to get rid of classifications" Yet you've been unable to show they're "cherry-picking" data or how they're suppressing anything. The data that "race realists" think confirm their views is usually completely compatible with the discoveries of their detractors and often further debunks the idea of "race" existing (like the fact that genetic factors of intelligence would vary most widely within continents, not between them). "but its workable" Politically? Yeah. Genetically? No. Genes often don't correspond to the "3 Race" Theory. Ethiopians may have "Caucasoid" craniofacial features but genetically they're closest to "Negroid" Sudanese people. BTW, there was also the "4 Race Theory" which attempted to make up for the shortcomings of the "3 Race Theory" (people from the Pacific usually don't neatly fit into any of the 3 categories). It was even modified to include categories like "Super Negro" and "True Negro" when African peoples didn't neatly fit into their "Negroid" categories and categories like "Alpinoid" when they discovered contradictions from their "Caucasoid" theory. "You've barely responded to anything" I've quoted lengthy sections of scientific papers verbatim. In contrast you've quoted only 2 scientific sources (Edwards & Bejan and Jones). Both of which I responded to at length with various scientific data.
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  5982. hozehd - "Just because Rushton came to a different conclusion than Morton doesn't discount his findings" Not sure what you're talking about here (I didn't mention Morton in our conversation, at least not recently) but Morton's findings don't discredit the scientific consensus on Race either: http://www.brown.uk.com/brownlibrary/INTEL2.htm "Its not like he got caught falsifying the data like Boaz" 1) When was this? 2) I don't know about falsifying data but Rushton has ignored data before that would go against his conclusions. Flynn and Dickens go into detail about how Rushton and Jensen included unweighted statistical data in their data about race and IQ scores: (pg. 3 onwards) http://www.brookings.edu/views/papers/dickens/20060619_iq.pdf Nisbett also noted this later about Rushton and Jesnen in his 2009 "Intelligence and How to Get It" "just because there is genetic diversity amongst Africans and because Arabs have a lot of African add mixture" No they don't. The only Arabs with significant African admixture are Yemenis and Omanis. That's not where sickle-cell is most prevalent among Arabs. "doesn't discount the existence of race." So far you haven't empirically supported the idea of "race". What genome do all or most Africans belong to?  "And to quote the wiki link" Mind adding context to the quote? "They argue that race may correlate, albeit imperfectly, with the presence of specific genetic variants associated with disease: Insofar as race "provides a sufficiently precise proxy for human genetic variation", the concept may be medically viable. In addition, knowledge of a person's race may provide a cost-effective way to assess susceptibility to genetically influenced medical conditions. Detractors of race-based medicine acknowledge that race is sometimes useful in clinical medicine, but encourage minimizing its use. They suggest that medical practices should maintain their focus on the individual rather than an individual's membership to any group. They argue that overemphasizing genetic contributions to health disparities carries various risks such as reinforcing stereotypes, promoting racism or ignoring the contribution of non-genetic factors to health disparities." Still no debate that "Race" is a taxonomically useful or real category for Homo sapiens sapiens or that there are genetic continental races. Just fuzzy sets corresponding to clinal regional populations. For instance, you won't see doctors debating there there is a genetic malady for the "black race". Maybe for Central, West Africans and Arabs specifically (Sickle-Cell). Or for Western Europeans (Cystic Fibrosis).
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  5984. hozehd - Morton was mentioned in the link but not in our conversation. Not everything in the link was relevant to our conversation. "proves my position" Mind pointing out where it "proved" your position? The fact that cranium sizes vary by region is completely compatible with the scientific consensus that race does not exist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craniometry#Race_and_brain_size There is no universal African or Asian head shape or size. The Maasai have a brain size more similar to Egyptians than Egyptians have to Europeans and African-Americans have a brain size more similar to white Americans than they do to Maasai people or Egyptians. "In other words, our social political leanings make us uncomfortable with the term" Again, this is you putting words in their mouth as they never said anything that implied such a thing. Murray, Herrnstein, Jensen and Rushton actually used their findings to suggest changes in policy regarding Affirmative Action, education spending, testing, etc. What political or social recommendations has the APA made? None. As per usual conservatives project. Conservative "Race Realists" try to use "race science" to prove political views or push a social agenda and assume their opponents are just liberals who have the same intention (psychological projection). Stereotyping should be avoided because it's unscientific and runs contrary to the scientific method. Witherspoon explained, empirically, why stereotyping gets in the way of objectivity: "A final complication arises when racial classifications are used as proxies for geographic ancestry. Although many concepts of race are correlated with geographic ancestry, the two are not interchangeable, and relying on racial classifications will reduce predictive power still further."
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  5986. hozehd - " Well Semites were historically a nomadic people who came out of Africa" Everybody did. :/ "You also had a fairly prolific Arab slave trade" True. But they usually did not breed with slaves and more often they sold slaves to other people. "more recently that included plenty of West African concubines" While this did indeed happen I wouldn't say "many". Northeast African concubines were far more common. Berbers, Tuaregs and Europeans were the people who engaged in most of the slave trade with West Africans. "you're forced to admit that some of these populations have obvious African admixtures" I never denied that some Arabs did. My point was: 1) The MAJORITY of Arabs don't. 2) Most of the African admixture in Arabs who have it is not of West African or Central African (the main carriers of sickle-cell in Africa) stock. 3) The sickle-cell trait in Arabs appears to be genetically independent of Africa: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249957/ "Its also possible that this not a coincidence given their geographic proximity and cultural ties.  It may have something to do with a populations contact with Malaria" Yeah, which would be "Convergent Evolution". When 2 independent populations independently evolve or develop a similar trait due to similar conditions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution That actually helps prove it has little if anything to do with African admixture as it would more likely be due to convergent evolution due to proximity to malaria.
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  6038. HalfTangible - An embryo or fetus is not a baby. Jesus never spoke about abortion (though abortion happens naturally with miscarriages, which God allows). "he valued hard work and ALL people" Who is eschewing hard work? The average working person works far harder than your average CEO for far, far less. Also, remember what Jesus said about rich people. Especially those who chase money or have a love of money. "actually said that the poor will never go away" While true, he also said to give freely to them and preached about dividing up money and spreading the wealth around the community (gasp!) Don't recall any teachings about "personal choice". "And Jesus would never have told us we couldn't defend ourselves" Neither do liberals. Jesus spoke about standing by your words, faith and views and being willing to lay down your life for them. The Constitution speaks about self-defense, not Jesus. The closest he ever comes to mentioning self-defense is arguably the Luke 22:36 passage. "Conservatives do not like bankers, Republicans do" Aren't most Republicans conservatives? "There's a reason the Tea party has gained a following" The Tea Party opposes regulating the banks, raising taxes on bankers and often opposes the govt prosecuting them for their crimes.... "spends all of it's time stealing from others" As opposed to conservatives who have no problem with the Rich spending all of their time stealing from others to make themselves richer? Even stealing from us by bribing the government to give them our tax dollars?  BTW, Jesus said "Render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar". So, Jesus wouldn't want you trying to get out of paying your taxes. You're not living up to your Savior's teachings. "to enslave the poor " In what way? "instead of, ya know, /actually helping them" So if the government provides services or temporary assistance to the poor, it's "enslaving them". But if charity does the same it's "helping them"? How does that make any fucking sense at all? How is helping them maintain a roof over their heads, feed their kids, have medical care and put food on the table "enslaving" them?
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  6163. ToTheConquered - sigh Don't you remember this comment of yours?: "What I was getting at was that someone who's smart enough to raise millions of dollars is smart enough to realize that race is a bullshit concept." --ToTheConquered That's basically what I just said. You're saying someone who is smart enough to make money would likely be too smart to be a racist. You implied if you're smart or educated you're probably too smart to be racist. That's exactly what I just argued against. You also said: "I'm simply just pointing out that usually making money requires some high level of intelligent thinking on one's part, so logically those types of people would be the ones to see through the veiled lies of racist ideology" --ToTheConquered You also did imply that if a business person is racist or has racist practices there is some task force of "filters" who will automatically notice and take action to put a stop to their business dealings: "Subtle racism isn't so subtle when it takes place on an executive level...because it winds up having to go through the filters of hundreds, thousands, or even millions of other people. If something is even subtly racist, there's a great chance that someone with a filter that's highly aware of racist practices will call it for what it is." --ToTheConquered You never answered who these "filters" are or how they would automatically just know a business decision is race-influenced. Data would suggest otherwise given minorities are generally paid less for the same jobs and are less likely to be hired even with the same credentials. As you can see I'm not taking you out of context. At most I just surmised or paraphrased what you said in my own words. Here I just quoted you directly.
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  6171. Sperg Furgerson - "there's no need to just randomly assault him" Defending yourself is not random assault. Assault is when you attack a person who is not bothering you and doesn't pose any kind of threat. Continually pursuing someone who doesn't want to be bothered and is obviously trying to get away from you is bothering someone (Harassment). It would only become assault if you told the person you're harassing that you're now done and will leave them alone, and attempt to leave and that person attacks anyway after having been told this. Anyways, so your advice to your kid if some random stranger followed them for 7 minutes in an unmarked car after dark, then got out on foot to pursue him/her when they ran away would be to "See what the man wants. Stick around and talk to him."? I doubt it. I think any reasonable person realizes that's not normal behavior. A person who is not up to anything would have announced themselves to you, not try to stalk you from a distance under cover of darkness for several minutes, then chase you without identifying themselves to you. Would your advice to your children be for them to run home? 1) What if the man catches up to your kid? What then? He can't defend himself? It's possible GZ may have caught up to TM (if Rachel Jeantel heard what she claims). 2) When a stranger is trying to follow your kid home, professional advice is tell your kid to NOT go home. If they go home then the stranger knows where they (and you) live. In Stranger Danger we teach kids when a strange adult won't stop following them they should run, scream, call the police, hide and/or go to a neighbor's house.  "looking over all the evidence" The jurors in the OJ Simpson trial looked over all the evidence too. I'm sure you don't agree with their conclusion. This trial was similar. Half the jurors felt (and still believe) GZ is guilty. They felt they couldn't convict him the way the jury instructions were explained to them (Judge Nelson allowed SYG instructions to be read to them despite GZ not using SYG as a defense). I think the trial needs to be reviewed, several points of it seem legally shifty. Like what I just mentioned. In the OJ Simpson case, similarly, jurors felt they couldn't convict him despite feeling he was guilty because the prosecution messed up by attempting to plant evidence against a guilty man and thus introducing reasonable doubt.
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  6172. Cosmo1093 - Actually, according to that law: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0784/Sections/0784.048.html "“Harass” means to engage in a course of conduct directed at a specific person which causes substantial emotional distress to that person and serves no legitimate purpose." Which is what Zimmerman did to Trayvon. He caused substantial emotional distress in a person (Trayvon felt intimidated enough to run away and/or hide, and according to Rachel Jeantel feared GZ might be a rapist trying to get him) and what GZ did served no legitimate purpose. GZ is not a law enforcement officer and the 911 dispatch told him the police don't need him trying to follow a person he views as "suspicious" to keep them in sight for the police. So, no legitimate purpose. Since GZ was a "Pursuant" by law (a person who is pursuing another person off of their own property) Florida law states under what circumstances a "Pursuant" can claim self-defense: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0776/0776.html It tells you to go to Statute 776.013. There is also Florida Statute 776.041 which states that an aggressor (if you're harassing someone not bothering you that makes you an aggressor) can only claim self-defense if they, in good faith, stop antagonizing the other person and make an attempt to withdraw from the situation and the person they were bothering attacks them anyway. That's why GZ made an account claiming he stopped chasing TM and tried to go back to his vehicle.
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  6186. You listed a bunch of things where there are more men in those negative positions than men, but presented no evidence that discrimination or oppression of men (on a gender basis) is causing this. What institutions are discriminating against or oppressing men specifically because they are men and causing homelessness, workplace accidents, suicides, etc. as a consequence? It would be like me tring to prove racism exists against black people by pointing out blacks have higher dropout rates than whites. That doesn't prove that racism is the cause, does it? No. Just like the fact more men are homeless doesn't prove anti-make discrimination caused it. As a black person I have to admit there are almost no laws in the books that openly discriminate against black people. The discrimination comes in in how the laws are selectively applied or enforced in regards to minorities, or how policies are passed knowing they will disproportionately affect minorities though the law itself doesn't explicitly give whites and nonwhites different rights. Like how cutting social services often harms minorities, or Stand Your Ground is selectively enforced with minorities. Likewise there are almost no laws that explicitly give women less rights (except for Abortion and Contraception laws which explicitly gives the gov't control over women's bodies it doesn't have over male bodies), the discrimination is in enforcement. Women are supposed to be given equal pay but are consistently offered lower starting salaries for the same jobs. Like how racial discrimination is illegal, but minorities are often paid less for the same jobs or less likely to get callbacks for their applications if they have an "ethnic" name.
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  6187. [End Rant] Anyways, I agree with you that some institutions are unfair to men (Family Court, Criminal Justice system), but ironically it has little to do with Feminism and more to do with negative consequences of patriarchal notions that have been in place for centuries or millenia. Those institutions are unfair mostly because they assume that men are breadwinners and hunters, not nurturers. They assume that mothers are natural nurturers and that women are the "weaker/fairer sex" and that they couldn't possible be strong enough to hurt a man. Or that women don't have violent urges like us men, the hunters. It's assumed if a guy is victimized by a female the problem is that he's not a "real man"/sissy. Feminists aren't the ones who created that notion, it was mostly men who did. Back in the Bronze Age. Feminists ironically were some of the ones fighting this notion, which some people accused them of "feminizing" men by insisting men don't have to be like that (of course many feminists don't fight these notions and use them to their advantage when it's convenient). I have to say that often many things Internet MRAs complain about are them complaining about how patriarchal notions constrains them to unrealistic, unfair and double standard expectations of Manhood or what it is to be a "real man", but they blame it all on Feminism by pretending a Feminism came up with these notions of men as hunters and women as weak creatures with no agency instead if blaming it on outdated Patriarchal notions of Manhood and Womanhood.
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  6264. dahalofreeek - That's a pretty good analysis. In the 1920s tax cuts were feasible and actually DID cause many/most Americans to have to pay less taxes. But that's because govt spending was significantly lower at the time and the rich made enough money that most of the rest of the people didn't have to pick up the slack. However, the "Roaring Twenties" also had the side effect of increasing wealth inequality and the middle class stagnating. Non-farm middle class wages actually shrank by around 4% in the 20s (not counting the 1929 Crash).  Supply-Side Economics only works pretty much when taxes get SO high that now they're doing more harm than good (killing demand or reducing productivity) or when barriers to entry and exit are excessively high in times when the market should otherwise be doing well. One of the biggest problems with Reaganomics is that it tried to implement 1920s-style changes in an economic situation that was much different than the 1920s (the Depression of 1921 was caused by sharp deflation rather than inflation like in the 1970s which was caused largely by the oil embargo). That's why Supply Side worked slightly better in Britain under Margaret Thatcher (which has a situation that called for some of the reforms it proposed) than it did in the US (which largely did not have a situation that called for such reforms). In our current situation Social Democratic and Keynesian reforms would work better. Supply-Side would be more appropriate for a situation like where there is a growing economy but a 90% marginal tax rate. Or 20% unemployment and unions requiring that every new employee start at a salary of $75,000/year and be given 2 months paid vacation while the companies have a profit margin barely in the black.
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  6309. MaxwellBennett - "The IQ gap between Whites and Blacks has remained" False. Originally the black-white IQ gap was estimated to be 18-20 points when it was first discovered in the 1930s and 40s. By the 1970s and 80s, the time the data from "The Bell Curve" was culled, it had decreased to 15 points. By the 2000s it has decreased to 7-10 points: http://www.brookings.edu/views/papers/dickens/20060619_iq.pdf The current white average is 100 (always is) and the current black average is widely estimated to be between 90-93. Even racialists like Jensen and Rushton admitted the black average had at least increased to 87-88. "The discussion of race is only allowed to follow the liberal narrative" You're freely voicing your disagreement right now. No one's stopping you. No one stops Jared Taylor, J. Philippe Ruston, Richard Lyn, Arthur Jensen, Murray, Herrnstein, Kanazawa, etc. either. You and your ilk (the people named above) getting your asses empirically handed to you is not silencing you. Debunking you is not censorship. James Flynn, Richard Nisbett, Stephen J. Gould, C. Loring Brace, Jelte Wicherts, Dickens, C. Loring Brace, Dolan, Tim Wise, etc. aren't censoring anyone. "which is blame whites for everything" Such as what? Who says the average white person is oppressing the average black person and that the black community has no faults or problems? In contrast I've yet to see many white conservatives admit to the white community having problems. "and never hold blacks responsible for their behaviour" Yep. We never hear rants about how black people are supposedly out of control or hear social and political leaders talk about change for the black community. Never mind the Million Man March, State of the Black Union Addresses, NAACP rallies, etc.... "exists because blacks commit more crimes" 1) Most criminals in the US are not black. 70% of arrested persons in the US are white. Whites are simply much more likely to get off than blacks because they're more likely to have connections or be able to afford good lawyers. Blacks are more likely to take plea bargains or not have good lawyers. 70% of arrested persons are white but only 30-32% of inmates are white. 2) Your claim is only true for some crimes. There are more black robbers per capita (still don't make up the majority of robbers) but there are more white marijuana users per capita. Blacks still get locked up for marijuana possession more ANYWAY. I've yet to see you address the fact blacks use drugs at the same rate as whites yet get locked up more for it thanks to the War on Drugs. You gonna stop dodging?
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  6317. Joe Haas - THIS was the first time anyone asked about drug data: "Blacks get arrested for drug possession more often because they are more often caught with drugs in their possession." --MaxwellBennett" To which I responded: "False. Whites are equally likely to have drugs in their possession: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/ http://healthland.time.com/2011/11/07/study-whites-more-likely-to-abuse-drugs-than-blacks/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/04/race-marijuana/2389677/" NOWHERE did I say that whites using drugs at the same or higher rate is based on arrest or incarceration data. It's based on user data. As I said, you have no clue what you're talking about. You've obviously lost track of the conversation. "I'm saying that if the system disproportionately arrests black people then those sources you are citing would show that white people use drugs at a lower rate" Non Sequitur. Usage rates are not the same thing as Incarceration rates, ya dumb truck. Whites have the same USAGE rates but lower INCARCERATION rates. I don't know how much more simply I could put this for your retarded ass. It's like this: 1 out of 10 white people uses drugs 1 out of 10 black people uses drugs 60% of those 1 in 10 black drug users gets arrested compared to only like 25% of those 1 in 10 white drug users. GET IT NOW? Unless you're implying I'm saying the justice system is rigging the numbers? Is that what you're implying? 
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  6398. Exactly. I have no problems with "Classical" atheist authors like Sagan, Russell, Asimov, Marx, Schopenauer, Nietschze, Voltaire, d'Holbach, Popper, etc. These guys were very philosophically literate/knowledgeable and critiqued Religion and Theism from a place of understanding, as Reza Aslan put it. They were often religious scholars and accomplished in many fields of philosophy, anthropology, history, etc. They could make their criticisms highly specific and tended to avoid over-generalizing, self-righteous moralizing, Strawman arguments, sophomoric snark and juvenile trolling/proseltyzing/demagoguery. While a couple of the Neo-Atheist authors have some philosophical background (Dennett and to a lesser extent Sam Harris) for the most part most of them are just scientists or academians in fields completely unrelated to Religion, Anthropology, History, Psychology, Philosophy, etc. and have no real education in those fields, and it shows. They think because they're experts in science or literature that they're automatically experts on whatever subject they open their mouths about. It'd be like hearing a Medical Doctor wax poetic about German Expressionism and claiming his medical expertise gives him special Art insight, or listening to Elton John pretend to be an Engineering expert because he's a musical genius. A lot of Neo-Atheists are Scientismists (believers in Scientism) who believe any intellectual pursuits outside of Physical Sciences are worthless anyway and don't bother to familiarize themselves with it, despite the fact those fields are critical to Religion analysis, not so much Physical Sciences. I think Neo-Atheism is to the intellectual Atheism of old like Prosperity and Born-Again megachurches are to intellectual Christianity and Theism of old like Origen, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Whitehead, Kierkegaard, C.S. Lewis, Paul Tillich, Maimonides, Kalam, etc.
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  6400. I don't think it is possible to eliminate such a thing because Theism is as much a part of human nature as Atheism. It's just a difference in thinking patterns, not that one is inherently "right" or "wrong" or better or worse than the other. Atheists tend to Empirical thinkers (on average) while Theists tend towards Inductive/Abductive thinking (on average). Both modes have strengths and weaknesses and times where they are useful or harmful. Atheists who are scientists look at all the data and the patterns of the Universe and just see an ordered chaos with no intelligence behind it. Theists who are scientists see the same data and things and see or detect a type of chaotic (to our limited perspective) order to it that suggests a plan or thought behind it. Atheists see the Universe as a Rorschach Test (randomness that your mind only sees order in where there is no real planned order), Theists see it as a Sand Castle or the Roman Colesseum (naturally you'd assume such things were made intentionally by some intelligence). That and non-atheists may have life experiences that atheists have never had personally (supposedly spiritual or supernatural experiences) or that atheists may have had but interpreted the opposite way. I think that's why Classical Atheists did what they did. As the Nones have shown, showing problems with organized religion doesn't make spirituality or belief in the supernatural go away (most self-IDed nonreligious "Nones" in the US are still theists or deists of some sort or have a supernatural or spiritual belief). Just like showing how fucked up world political systems doesn't make he human tendency of Governance go away, or exposing Post-Modern Art as hogwash doesn't make the human desire for Art die. If you insist a need should die out you HAVE to explain in great detail why and how you intend to replace this hardwired Human tendency. Which is what Secular Humanism seeks to do for Atheists by fulfilling the void left by the lack of religion in their lives to fulfill the hardwired Spiritual Urge. This will work for some people but not all because you'll never erase Theism, just like you can't erase Atheism. Humans will always disagree on answers to "The Big Questions" and will always interpret the cosmos in various ways.
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  6438. Darran Kern - I'm black and I myself was born in a low-income semi-rural area in the Deep South (Mississippi). I'm an Army brat, my dad was in the Army for 22 years, he retired when I was about 12; so I bounced around the US quite a bit until I was in middle school. By the end of middle school/early high school my parents had worked up to being middle-class suburbanites. I've spent the majority of my life in the burbs since then, except for college where I spent 5 years up in Western Maryland in Allegany County while I went to Frostburg State University. During that time I was in a mostly-white, small-town Appalachian environment. Despite being black and fairly poor and raised in the Jim Crow-Era Deep South my parents were raised to not judge people by their skin color or race. They were taught to not view themselves as inferior to white people but not view themselves as superior either. My maternal grandparents taught my mom to treat people as individuals and my dad, who was mostly raised by his older sister (since my paternal granddad was a derelict deadbeat and my dad's mother passed away when he was a kid), was taught pretty much the same thing. I never really understood racism either because in my life I've seen no shortage of stupidity and brilliance in both white and black people. And every other group of people. I think traveling outside of the US and being an International Studies major expanded my horizons even further on that and showed that, despite our cultural differences, at the core most humans are pretty much the same. We mostly differ at an individual level.
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  6547. +Kevin Kirkham - 1) This is due to old patriarchal traditions. As patriarchal society is coming to an end in the 20th and 21st century, in 1st world countries (not so much 3rd world ones), there are fewer women holding to this mentality.There are still a lot of women who do (too many) but many who don't. 2a) Then men are part of the problem. If a man feels useless if a woman earns more than him, then he's just compounding the problem and urging women to be hypergamous in the first place. A man like that sounds like a loser or very, very insecure. I don't feel worthless if a woman is more educated than me or earns more than I do. Women need men for things other than money. Goddamn! They need things like companionship, intimacy, etc. 2b) So what's your solution? Make sure women get paid less, attend college less or stay at home? 3) False rape allegations only make up 8% of all rape allegations and the vast, vast majority of men are never accused of rape. There are nearly 160,000,000 males in the US, there are only around 8,000 rape reports per year. I've never been accused of rape in college. Then again, I never did something stupid like screwing around with passed-out drunk chicks at parties to put myself in such a predicament. I've slept with more than one woman in life, never been accused of Rape once. Not even close. 4) I agree that I hate it when people want to be taken care of, but your complaint in #2 encourages women to do exactly that. You bemoan women being more educated than men or making more money than men, saying it renders men worthless. So, what do you expect? You want women to stop earning more and stop being more educated or stop competing with men for jobs, that means they'll be stay-at-home moms. You want to complain about Independent women in the workplace and college, but then you complain about women being financially dependent upon a husband/boyfriend. Make up your mind! Should women be Independent or Dependent? If you want women to not be Independent, then get used to supporting them as Betty Homemakers. If you want to live like Ward Cleaver then pay for a household on one income like Ward Cleaver.
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  6561. AsifIcarebear3 - "You accused me of promoting extreme safety measures" I accused you of promoting fairly useless safety measures. Useless corporately/statistically-speaking. It's as useless as trying to avoid being robbed by not wearing nice clothes in public. "clearly implying that I do believe that" Non sequitur. How the fuck does saying "if" imply you do? "using extreme examples to demonstrate a point....It's to show a situation where it's difficult to acknowledge that the girl in this example has not increased her risk of rape, because it's such an extreme." Example by Extremism is a fairly useless argumentation tool exactly because it's so extreme. It being extreme means it's the exception, not the rule. Thus not very relevant for statistical purposes. We're talking about how things usually go, not how things go in the extreme. "That's why it's used" And I demonstrated why it's not very useful. Quod Erat Demonstratum. "clearly not" Clearly I did since I acknowledge that in my first or second post to you. "Maybe you should try reading some of the comments here. You'll find dozens of commenters berating people for saying exactly what you quoted me saying here" I'm not those people. I don't think you're blaming the victim per se. Just giving advice that won't amount to much of anything in most cases. Advice that does little to solve the problem. I'm generally not interested in advice that doesn't really solve much. Now do you have something relevant to add that will significantly decrease the problem? If not then get out of my face.
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  6562. AsifIcarebear3 - "I hate rape so much that if even 1 rape can be avoided by advising people to do this, I'll be happy" That's good, but it does little for society in general. I think if you have the capacity to do more that's always preferable. Maybe you don't think that way... "Besides, as I've said, these safety measures are so non-invasive," So were most of the suggestions I made about avoiding other crimes. Like dressing less fancy. "Oh fucking please. If I say: "if you really believe that black people are inferior, then you're a moron" then I'm implying that what you said could lead my thoughts in that direction" Lead in that direction is not equivalent to "already arrived at that conclusion". Thank you for proving my point, dumbass. My point was that your thought processes have an unfortunate side effect or potential. "I laid out in full detail why the extreme example is a very useful tool in many different debates" The problem is you were wrong. They're not useful because extreme examples rarely ever come to fruition. A better tactic is how to deal with the typical case. How to prevent a house fire from a fireplace is better to teach than how to prevent a house fire due to Ball Lightning. QED. "By the way, "QED" implies you set out to disprove the value of my analogy" I was just being cheeky. XD "Then why are you wasting my time?" Better question is why your'e wasting mine. You should have stopped when you saw we agreed. "Those are the people I'm arguing against" Well, argue against them directly instead of against them to me. "I've pulverized your bullshit at every single turn" You ended up admitting your advice won't solve most cases. Hardly sounds like pulverizing at all. I said my advice is how to prevent cases statistically. You didn't dispute that.  Have something of value to say?
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  6563. AsifIcarebear3 - "if someone's going to take a walk through shitty neighbourhoods, I don't think it's unreasonable to advise that person to not wear their armani suit. So yeah. Thanks for adding nothing of value." Unlike you I admit that it's not very valuable advice overall. That was my point. That such advice isn't going to reduce crime much. "But my point didn't fucking have that side effect or potential" Except it does since you give your advice as if it's some kind of potential game-changer that should stop a significant number of rapes. That was the tone of your original posts. If you don't mean it that way give it a disclaimer that you realize it won't change much. "That's not what the extreme example is supposed to deal with" No shit, dumbass. What it deals with is fucking useless because it's an exercise in whether, if given an infinite amount of time or possibility, if something unlikely could occur. It's like pondering could lightning ever hit the same area 3 times. "It's asking about whether he never, ever could think limitations on gun rights are reasonable. My example was to show that technically it's possible for a girl to increase her risk of rape" 1) If you admit it's extreme then why the FUCK DID YOU MAKE SUCH A BIG DEAL ABOUT SOME OF MY TIPS BEING UNREASONABLE? IF I'M DEALING WITH AN EXTREME EXAMPLE THEN IT SHOULD BE OKAY FOR ME TO INTRODUCE EQUALLY UNREASONABLE SCENARIOS. 2) It's also technically possible for you to decrease your risk of being robbed by earning less money. That's useless to know for the same reason it's fairly useless to know that an extreme situation could potentially increase chances of rape by 0.0000000001%. "I'm loving the fact that you apparently think your use of "QED" lends you credence." No. It's just funny (to me) to be cheeky after I put a psuedo-intellectual like yourself in check. "Now we've reached a critical point. I've got the feminazi cornered. She has to admit that in this extreme situation, the girl increases her risk of rape. Check." The problem is it's not critical. Whether something extremely unlikely could ever happen is not very critical unless the point of your mental exercise is just whether or not it's all possible, even if that possibility is useless. I'm about Utility. You appear to be about useless Potentiality. It's possible you could prevent rape by never leaving the house. That's real, but it's a worthless fact. Now, do you have something of utility to say?
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  6564. AsifIcarebear3 - "And for the umpteenth time, if even one single incident is avoided, I'll be happy." Good for you. But unlike you I'm concerned about utility. "Wrong" Right. "I did, in fact, through various conversations" What part about "original" do you not get, mongo?  "I've spelled it out in minute detail why the extreme example is a very effective tool" Except it isn't, dumbass. It's an exercise in remote possibilities. Remote possibilities are not effective because they're just that - remote. It's as useful as pondering what's the highest number a mind can conceive of besides Infinity. "calm your tits" Why? Your bitch ass scared now? "I never claimed it's impossible to lower your risk of rape" Nor did I. Can you read? Thus, your examples were worth less than shit. "why the extreme example is useful" And I've explained, in excruciating detail, why mental exercises about remote possibilities does little earthly good. Because it's just that - remote and extreme. It does no good other than testing limits of reason, which has little to do with utility. "where they don't think that a girl could ever increase her risk of rape" And it's technically possible that a black hole could form in front your face one day. Now what the fuck good does that knowledge do? How is it "extremely useful", you dumb shit? "The extreme example is used to show the extreme idiots that their extreme black/white world view is wrong." GOOD JOB. YOU JUST CONFIRMED WHAT I'D BEEN SAYING - THAT IT'S NOT GOOD FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN REMOTE EXTREME POSSIBILITIES AND HAS NO USEFULNESS TO THE AVERAGE PERSON. Good job, dunce! "As I've said time and time again, if even 1 single rape can be avoided, why is what I'm promoting bad again?" I never said it was "bad". Just not useful. At worst it can give some people the impression that it is useful for most or many situations. That's it's biggest problem. People generally expect advice to be commonly useful. "Says the guy who quite literally added nothing whatsoever to the discussion" Except I pointed out the fact that: 1) Your analogy is worthless. 2) Discussing why rapists feel the need to rape or feel they can get away with it is much more useful. In just those 2 sentences I did more earthly good than you did. Now fuck outta here. "My answer: yes. Feminazis: no. Feminazis are wrong, I intend to show them why." Good job, fedora-wearing neckbeard. You exposed an extreme minority position as being as useless as your advice. XD
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  6565. AsifIcarebear3 - "Aaaw, you didn't get it anyway" Except I did, dumbass.  "The extreme example illustrates why the black and white world view is mistaken" 1) Except no one was arguing for a black and white world, dumbshit. 2) An extreme example doesn't even prove the world isn't black and white, actually. There is a very remote possibility the Sun could suddenly explode or a black hole form on Earth randomly. Do those remote possibilities invalidate statements like "The Sun wouldn't blow up" or "Black holes wouldn't form on a planet"? No. Because the chances of that happening are like 0.00000000000000000001%. Chances that small hardly need recognition in common parlance.  "If you don't calm you tits, you'll also lose your cool, and then we enter a whole other level of stupid" That makes no fucking sense. You don't enter intelligence levels based on mood. Good job ironically displaying your (already-apparent) retardation even more. "Nor did I." Never said you did, dumbass. Read. "Your insipid and asinine examples" Which is precisely what "extreme examples" are. They add nothing to the conversation. "Look here, asshole" Aww. Don't be so mad at me! XD "3) these people must be shown that there are grey areas." An extreme example is not really a gray area. For things to be gray they usually have to be realistic. An extreme example is not realistic. There is a chance a person could randomly turn into a can of gasoline. That's useless information because it's unrealistic (though remotely possible, quantum mechanically-speaking). "There are more than enough people who think the world is black and white on this issue" And your example really does nothing to dispel that. What are the chance of an extreme example happening? Not very good. Congrats! "And I repeat: if even 1 rape is avoided, it is useful." That's if. You haven't proven your if to be a reality, dumbass.  You're doing an Endzone dance at the 99-yard line.
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  6567. AsifIcarebear3 - "Oh fucking jesus tittylicious christ. Firstly: extreme advice can be used practically" ahem http://www.thefreedictionary.com/practical "prac·ti·cal  (prăk′tĭ-kəl) adj. 1. Of, relating to, governed by, or acquired through practice or action, rather than theory, speculation, or ideals: gained practical experience of sailing as a deck hand. 2. Manifested in or involving practice: practical applications of calculus. 3. Actually engaged in a specified occupation or a certain kind of work; practicing. 4. Capable of or suitable to being used or put into effect; useful:" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/extreme "ex·treme  (ĭk-strēm′) adj. 1. Most remote in any direction; outermost or farthest: the extreme edge of the field. 2. Being in or attaining the greatest or highest degree; very intense: extreme pleasure; extreme pain. 3. Extending far beyond the norm: an extreme conservative. See Synonyms at excessive. 4. Of the greatest severity; drastic: took extreme measures to conserve fuel..... ........ 1. being of a high or of the highest degree or intensity: extreme cold; extreme difficulty. 2. exceeding what is usual or reasonable; immoderate: extreme behaviour." Thanks for shooting your own point in the foot, dumbass. "An extreme advice could be: "never, ever sign something without reading it" That's a black & white mentality. What you just said we should seek to avoid...... Jesus H, man. Jesus H. You defeat your points better than I do. XD "I was referring to my advice on how people should take reasonable precautions to avoid being the victim of a crime." "Extreme" and "Reasonable" don't really go together. Get it now, mongo?
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  6585. @MexicantGame - Theres as much evidence against Zimmerman as OJ. For Zimmerman they have Zimmerman admitting to Harassment, they have him misleading the police about his whereabouts, they have him changing his story several times (some media even tried to blame his changing story on head trauma), you have 3 witnesses placing him on top at various times, admitting he took his gun out of the glovebox, voice analysts agreeing the screaming is not from Zimmerman, Zimmerman himself admitting the voice doesn't sound like him, Rachel Jeantel hearing Zimmerman shove Trayvon, no one actually seeing any head slamming or pummeling of Zimmerman (John Good said he didn't see actual contact), the physical impossibility of Zimmerman being able to scream if Trayvon was smothering his mouth and nose like he claims, doctors testifying his injuries were minor and didn't match his testimony, having none of the effects Dr. DI Maio listed from head slamming, Dr. Di Maio admitting Trayvon could have been standing and backing away when shot, no hair, skin, blood, saliva or DNA evidence of Trayvon grabbing Zimmerman's head or gun, the hoodie drawstring facing Zimmerman's free hand being pulled fully taut indicating Zimmerman might have tried to prevent Trayvon from leaving, Zimmerman admitting he had no intention of letting Trayvon get away, etc. Like all Zimmerman DICK-LICKERS you vickers simply ignore any and every piece of evidence of Zimmerman's guilt. His story was not "proven" any more than OJ's.
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  6717. TSyoutubin - Original Sin is actually not mentioned in the Bible, that's actually just a theory some Christians came up with in early medieval times by St. Augustine of Hippo. It's a belief that was possibly influenced by his previous Manichean Gnostic views that the physical world is hopelessly corrupt and corrupts all physical things (a common view in Gnosticism). Not all Christians ever accepted that theory and there's been a growth in Christians today who don't buy that theory. Pelagius was an early Christian rebel who didn't buy into St. Augustine's theory. Those who don't accept "Original Sin" believe humans choose to sin of their own free will. "He set them up to disobey him, and he got angry at them for disobeying him" I'm not sure if he's so much angry as telling them in a matter-of-fact manner the consequences of their actions. The Hebrew Bible portrays God as obsessed with purity and (spiritual) cleanliness, and thus banished Adam and Even since they became spiritually impure/unclean since they just engaged in a sin (they lied to God initially when he asked what happened). One of the more radical Christian theories is that God intentionally wanted them to eat from the Tree so that they would know the difference between Good and Evil on their own. Humanity would then have to work their way back to being reunited with God through the effort of learning what to do with the knowledge of Good and Evil rather than staying in the Garden ignorant as small children. Sort of like how parents will sometimes let their children learn how the world works or become more knowledgeable and mature by allowing them to mess up and suffer the consequences of their mess ups rather than constantly saving their kids from making a mistake. When I was a Christian I liked that theory. IMO it made the most sense (and still now makes some of the most sense of any Christian theory I've ever heard). 
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  6741. sk8bow - "so if a person had an accident, smashed their skull and the person's behavior changes, thus changing the person's life for the worse,..... does that mean the person deserved it or that god works in mysterious ways?" I'd say it's Cause and Effect. Not really a matter of a person "deserving it" or not. "shitty things happen to good people and good things happen to evil people and visa versa. that's nature." Agreed. "if anything, we should be more concerned about how we take care of this earth, our real caretaker." You'l get no arguments from me. I'm in total agreement so far. "to me, believing in god is cop out so you have a reason to ignore the problems we have now" Certainly for some people it is. For many it isn't. People believe in a deity for a variety of reasons. For some it's about comfort. For some it's a consequence of their existential worldview. For some it's simply a result of their belief that to them the Universe appears to be designed by an intelligence. Sort of like for some atheism is simply a result of believing the Universe doesn't appear to be meaningfully designed. It's entirely possible to believe in a "god" and not ignore problems we have now. Like MLK, Gandhi, etc. I'd argue that Jesus, the figures Christians claim to follow, seemed overall far more concerned with life in this world than in the next (he didn't speak much about the afterlife at all). "let go of your guilt" What guilt? "let go of your old ways, and don't think about god." You sure do presume a lot about people. Who said I was a Christian or a theist? "learn how to live right" Who says I'm not doing that already? Sorry, but that last part kind of reminds me of the presumptuous attitude that a lot of religious Evangelicals have. That people are not "living right" unless they follow their particular religion, religious figure, deity or worldview.
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  6742. ***** - "I'll concede that you made valid points the moment you have evidence to support your claims" 1) I'm not really making a claim other than denying that consciousness has been proven to be synonymous to neural correlates, which is a claim YOU made but didn't back up. I'm not proposing I can explain exactly what consciousness is. Only that science has no current consensus. Certainly not across disciplines. I've already proven that there isn't a strong consensus. I'm not trying to prove any particular theories alternative to yours true. 2) There is evidence of other theories, they were mentioned here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness#Mind.E2.80.93body_problem The evidence is not conclusive, however. "When you find evidence of a consciousness without a brain" I already pointed out some claimed incidents: http://www.iep.utm.edu/consciou/ http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/sep/19/health.mentalhealth http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98447 "Philosophy is great when it comes to discussing matters of morality, laws or artistic achievements, but it has nothing to do with what is right and wrong, scientifically." Agreed. Though occasionally it does get it right in the latter area without being able to empirically prove it first. Like the philosophical notion among Indians and Greeks of the Atom, which later turned out to be scientifically true (or partially true, atoms are not indivisible like Greeks and some Indians assumed). "Things like fear, anger, love, happiness, these are all processes of the brain" Certainly they're correlated with brain activity. To date no scientist has been able to prove they come entirely from the brain, or been able to artificially create thoughts in humans or create anger out of nothing. "You can give people chemicals or social therapy to induce or suppress these feelings." Inducing and suppressing are not creating or destroying. "Memories are held in the brain, and physical damage to the brain can erase or change memories. Our senses of touch, smell, sight, sound and taste are all processes linked directly to the brain.  Damaging the brain can alter, instill or remove these sensations and our recollection of these sensations." In total agreement. This doesn't prove they're simply a product of chemicals and electricity in the brain. Again, no one is arguing (at least I'm not) that these things are 100% independent from the physical brain. You're arguing against an argument I'm not making. "Every single aspect of who you are can be directly associated to physical processes of your organ known as the brain." Now that's false. Many aspects of the human personality and human consciousness have never been associated to any specific process(es) of the brain: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness No one has ever been able to change someone's mind for their favorite color to be red instead of blue. Or been able to medically alter a person's personality to a specific other personality. Or been able to make someone stop liking pizza (except maybe by way of psychological trauma). Or been able to explain what causes a person to like Rock but hate Rap. "When you die, you will not have a brain, and thus your memories will be gone, your ability to feel, touch, smell, taste and see will be gone." Certainly your physical senses are gone and the cells that store memory are gone. Does that mean all of consciousness stops? No, it doesn't prove that since we don't know exactly how consciousness starts to begin with or exactly where it comes from.
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  6745. ***** - What was my "very first link"? Are you referring to this? Because this was my very first link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness#Scientific_study Please point out where it used "metaphysical arguments like Deepak Chopra 101", if you please. "Again, until you demonstrate a consciousness outside of a physical medium" 1) How would one do that since by definition science ONLY studies physical mediums? That's like saying "Show me a drawing without letting me see it." 2) If you're not limiting this strictly to empirical evidence there are indeed incidents of consciousness outside of "physical mediums" (I'm assuming by that you mean measured by equipment?) I have a feeling you'd simply fall back to tiredly waving it away as "metaphysics" and "Depak Chopra 101". Even though some of it is documented in medical science. "your argument is based on "Metaphysics" To be honest I have no fucking clue what you're referring to. What the fuck link was this and what exactly did it say? What "metaphysical argument" did I make? I've made no argument really other than displaying skepticism towards your belief. "Try to be more critical" I'll take that seriously when you yourself actually apply critical thinking. Such as defining "physical medium" (that's a vague description), identifying what this "first link" was, or back up your claim that it's been conclusively proven that consciousness is identical to neural correlates in the brain by evidence rather than scoffing. To be fair you did show that changing or tampering with the brain can alter consciousness. Which no one is denying. That, however, is not synonymous with proving consciousness is one and the same with these chemicals and electrical signals.
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  6799. ***** - Actually, it's a rejection. Unless you're talking about Implicit Atheism. Explicit Atheists of all stripes have a concept of a "god" and reject it as something real. Not believing something is still a rejection, and thus still a position. Agnostic Apatheism would be closer to a complete lack of a position. "Just like you can be attracted to males/ females/ both/ animals/ kids/ certain objects and what not, you can belief in all different kinds of gods" True, but being attracted to kids and animals is not the same as being straight or gay. What I was referring to is that people can also be Bisexual, Pansexual, Asexual, etc. Not just Heterosexual or Homosexual. Likewise they can be more than just Theist or Atheist. "But, just like you either are attracted to something, or you are not attracted to anything at all, you either believe in any kind of deity or you do not" That's false. Maybe you find this hard to believe, having a position, but not everyone has made a decision to accept or reject the existence of deities. Just like not everyone has an opinion that a movie is a good or bad movie, not everyone has decided to accept or reject deities. Yeah. Not everyone has chosen a "side". "Agnosticism (which includes ignosticism and apatheism) is a totally different matter" Ignosticism and Apatheism are not considered varieties of Agnosticism. I don't know of any philosopher or theologian who classifies them that way. Agnosticism considers "god" a valid word. Ignosticism does not. Apatheism doesn't care about the conversation at all. Agnosticism cares enough to take a position. "Beliefing that debating about god is useless, because there is not universal definition and believing that gods supposedly existence is irrelevant, doesn't say anything about whether or not you belief that there is a god" If they don't even think the word "god" is a clear and valid word how would they have a position on it? Ignostics basically view the question "Do you believe in God?" like asking someone "Do you believe in Blahbogligablenochip?" They're like "What? Explain what that's supposed to even mean." You have to know what something is first before you can intelligibly accept or reject it. "You are born an atheist" That's Implicit Atheism. That's different from Explicit Atheism. Babies are atheist in the same sense that babies are also apolitical and asexual. An adult atheist and a baby are both atheist in a significantly difference sense. Just like a celibate adult who doesn't masturbate either and a baby are both asexual for different reasons. "It doesn't matter if there is a clear definition for god or not. If you belief in a god you have a definition" You contradicted yourself in the span of 2 sentences. By definition that DOES make it matter whether or not you have a clear definition of "God" since you can't reject or accept something until you know what it is first. If you have a belief in a god you'll have a definition. If you lack a belief in a god you'll have a definition unless you're an Implicit Atheist. If you've heard of gods but view the word as nonsensical or undefined you won't have or lack a belief. Just like I couldn't tell you if I do or don't believe in "Iihqopaiore". I have no clue what that is. For all I know it could be something I already believe in (once you define it), but right now it's just garble. "you must first acknowledge its existence. And thus both would be theistic" True, but with that analogy I wasn't strictly speaking about Ignostics. Some people know what Napoleon Dynamite is and have seen it, but have no opinion on it (like Apatheists). Or have no opinion because they haven't watched it (like Ignostics). 
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  6800. ***** - "Still in both cases you are an atheist" True. However, some people are neither an Implicit or Explicit Atheist but don't claim to be a Theist either. "Well, Wikipedia does" I'm sorry but it doesn't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism "Some philosophers have seen ignosticism as a variation of agnosticism or atheism, while others have considered it to be distinct." "In a chapter of his 1936 book Language, Truth, and Logic, A. J. Ayer argued that one could not speak of God's existence, or even the probability of God's existence, since the concept itself was unverifiable and thus nonsensical. Ayer wrote that this ruled out atheism and agnosticism as well as theism because all three positions assume that the sentence "God exists" is meaningful. Given the meaninglessness of theistic claims, Ayer opined that there was "no logical ground for antagonism between religion and natural science",as theism alone does not entail any propositions which the scientific method can falsify." "What is important is that none of the three take any position in regards to believe in the existence of a deity." Well, none of the 3 take a "Yes" or "No" position. Their positions on the "Do you believe in a God?" question are: Agnostic: That's a good question, but I'm not sure. *Agnostic Atheist: Probably not, but I don't know. I lack a belief but I could be wrong. *Agnostic Theist: Probably, but I don't know. I lack a disbelief in God/I believe in a God but I could be wrong. *Neutral Agnostic: I can't say either way. I haven't made up my mind yet. Apatheist: I don't really care one way or the other. Ignostic: What do you mean? "You can believe that something exists but is irrelevant" That would be Apatheism. An apatheist can believe a god exists but that it's irrelevant. An ignostic doesn't even know what you mean by "god" to know if one exists or not. "If you say one can not be an ignosticist and a theist, then every ignosticist is an atheist, for you say they can not believe in any deity" To be an atheist you have to reject the concept that a deity exists. Ignostics haven't done that. Just like if you ask me "Do you like goodness?" and I answer "What do you mean?" That doesn't mean "No". I simply don't know what you're talking about. If you explain it sufficient I might very well find I already believe in it. Same with Ignostics and "God". "doesn't mean that you are excluded from believing or not believing in what this word describes" You are until that word is defined first. Just like you can't call me an "a-goodist" (someone who doesn't believe in "goodness") just because I didn't know what you meant when you asked me if I believe in goodness. A person has to understand something, or have an idea of what you're talking about, before they can be classified as a believer or disbeliever. "Once you explain the meaning of the word you may can give an answer, but that doesn't change your belief" True, but that "belief" could still be "I don't know". Not everyone has an opinion on the issue. I'm not sure why you find it a difficult concept that not everyone has an opinion on "god's" existence or lack thereof. "Then everybody who does not like it is an atheist" Napoleon is a very specific, unambiguous thing (a historic person). Not a vague concept (God). It would be more akin to asking people if they believe in "awesomeness" - yet another vague concept that has differing definitions from person to person. "Still, they must either be theists or atheist" Only if they say "Yes" or "No". If their answer is "No comment" or "I don't know" that doesn't count as theist or atheist. Otherwise you're just now attempting to redefine the words "theist" and "atheist" to shoehorn things into them.
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  6801. ***** - I just quoted where it disagreed with you, man. Did you read my post? Well, at least, there are many who don't view it as a form of Agnosticism. "If you answer "Yes", you obviously are a theist. If you do answer anything else (as long as you understand the question), you are an atheist." Untrue. An atheist rejects gods or has no concept of them. Those other positions are not a rejection. It's like saying if your answer to "Do you like pepperoni pizza?" is anything other than "Yes" then you don't like it. Now you're trying to redefine the word "atheism". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism "Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism" None of these other positions are a rejection of the concept of deities or a position that there are none. I think what you're going for here is "non-theism": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-theism Atheism does not mean "anything that isn't theism". That's what the word "non-theist" means. Non-theism includes Ignosticism, Apatheism, Deism, etc. Atheism does not. So, yes, an Ignostic is a Non-Theist but not an Atheist specifically. At least until you define "God" for them. Then they might express an Atheistic or a Theistic opinion. There's also Pantheism, which some theologians and philosophers consider a separate position from theism, deism and atheism since Pantheism includes all of these. There are theistic, deistic and atheistic (naturalistic pantheism) varieties of pantheism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism and spin-offs of theistic pantheism such as Panentheism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism Then there's the issue of "Transtheism": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transtheistic "If you haven't made up your mind, you DO NOT believe in the existence of god." False. That's like saying because I don't have an opinion on Hawaiian pizza that I do not like it. You have to have made up your mind in order to not believe. Unless you've just never heard (like an Implicit Atheist). "And then he would be a theistic apatheist." Correct. If he disbelieves he's an atheistic apatheist. If he hasn't made up his mind he's neutral. Not a atheist or an atheist. "doesn't mean that they are neither atheist nor theist." If they can't be classified then, by definition, they can't be either a theist or an atheist. The same way you can't claim something living an unknown is an animal. It would have to be known about to some degree to be an animal. "It is either dead or it is not" Dead and Alive are dualistic states. Opinions are not. You can not have an opinion on something. You can't not be alive or dead. You can kinda like something. You can't be kinda pregnant. "You either do believe in something that other people define as god, or you don't. If you believe in something" By that definition almost everyone is a "theist", including most atheists. In some definitions the physical universe can be seen as "God". By that definition most atheists would actually be "theists". "but you still either belief or lack the belief in something that fits the general definition of a deity" The problem is there is no true "general definition". Definition of "God" vary as much as definitions of what classifies as "fun". "Society has a set of criteria that define something as a deity" Which society? Eastern society would have quite a different "set of criteria" to define a deity than Western society, for example. Also, society doesn't set definitions of words.
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  6802. ***** - "Absence of belief doesn't require rejection" Not in Implicit Atheism, no. But ALL forms of Explicit Atheism require rejection since all forms of Explicit Atheism know what a "God" is, or believe they do, and do not accept it. That's a rejection. To reject something is not accept it as true. It doesn't mean to proclaim you know for a fact that it's false.  "As long as you do not actively hold the belief that a deity exist, you lack that belief." And that's a rejection: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reject "to refuse to believe, accept, or consider (something)" "Why are you arguing that atheism is the rejection of belief in an deities, when you already accept the concept of implicit atheism?" Right now I'm just talking about Explicit Atheism, which is the most common type. Implicit Atheism is not common among adults since most adults on Earth have heard of a god-concept at some point in their lives.  "And yes if you have no opinion on a pizza, you do not like it" True, but you don't dislike it either. You haven't rejected it. "The problem here is our language, were not liking can mean to actually find it distasteful, were the literal meaning of the word simply is that you do not find it tasty." Agreed. "Similarly, if you do not have any concept of god, you do not believe in any god, but that does not equal to believe in its nonexistence." That would only be if you are an Implicit Atheist. Most Ignostics, Apatheists, etc. are not Implicit Atheists. They've heard of god-concepts and simply have an opinion on the issue that isn't a "Yes" or "No". You don't have to have a "Yes" or "No" opinion on anything, really. "Really? Then who does" What I should say is that society doesn't get to redefine words however they like. Society can't redefine "hot" to mean "cold". "But neither is there a "true" definition of any of the other words we used in this discussion." The words "Theism" and "Atheism" have a much more well-defined and universally understood definition than the term "God". Especially the word "theism". There is no way which a person who does not believe in any gods could meaningfully be called a "theist", is there? The term "God" could mean anything ranging from a man in the sky with powers to simply the physical universe itself. "But still we understand each other" No, we don't always understand each other. If a Hindu talks about "God" chances are he means something much different than what a Jew or Muslim is talking about. When Albert Einstein talks about "God" he means something much different than what a Christian means by that word. "So what?" See above. There is no singular definition of "God". That's the "so what". "If you believe gravity is a deity" Bad comparison. There is only one definition of gravity. There are nearly endless definitions of "God". Just like there are nearly endless definitions of "fun". Gravity is a scientific term. "God" is not. Neither is "fun". "But that doesn't change the fact that people either believe in that something or they do not." I'm sure there are people out there who do not have an opinion on your unique redefinition of "Gravity". "It can't include both theism and atheism" It does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_pantheism Naturalistic Pantheism is an atheistic form of Pantheism. It holds that the physical universe and its laws could be considered "God", but not in a religious sense since they believe the Universe is not alive and has no will or consciousness. Theistic Pantheists believe the Universe is God but that it's not necessarily all matter/physical, they believe it has a consciousness and some even believe it has a will: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism "Gods exist" That's not what Transtheism is positing. It posits that such a thing is beyond existing or not existing. You obviously did not read the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transtheism A good example would be the Jain take on "God": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Jainism "If their doubt of god goes so far" They doubt your definition of "God" and your definition of "existence". "Wrong, if it can't be classified as an animal, it may still be one" May is not an is. "But that does not mean that those that are animal, aren't animals" Some of them will turn out to be plants, fungi and other microbes. Thus not animals. But you're getting beside the point. "They are not dependent upon being discovered to be what they are. They are either animals or they are not." Technically "animal" is a concept invented by humans. We could decide that Mammals are "Animals" and Reptiles are "Gubials" (made up a term) if we wanted. It's a concept. Likewise, someone does not have to have an opinion on any given issue. That is where you err, claiming everyone has to have an opinion on an issue. They most certainly don't. People also don't have to agree with your definition of "God" or "existence" as you do not hold a patent on either one of those concepts. "What you are proposing is, that somebody who never said what he thinks about god is outside the spectrum" What would you define as "god"? You may consider him to not think about "god" while he may disagree with you depending on how one defines "god". What I'm proposing is that someone may be aware of different definitions of "god" and have no solid opinion on the matter. Just like someone can be aware of a movie's existence or have seen a movie and have no real opinion on the movie. "is outside the spectrum" No, you're proposing that there is no spectrum. You're proposing that it's a binary, I'm proposing that belief is a spectrum. "His beliefs are not dependent on your understanding and knowledge of them." Oh the irony. That applies to you here, not me. Because you don't understand anything other than Theism and Atheism does not mean his beliefs are dependent on your ignorance of other concepts. In other words, because you don't know much about things other than strict Theism and Atheism does not mean he can only fit into those. "Before we had this discussion, I was already an atheist, even though you could not classify me as one, because you had no knowledge about me." I never denied that. And before this conversation I was already Ignostic and remain one. So far you have yet to classify me as a Theist or an Atheist because you have yet to define "God" for me.
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  6835. NuclearGrizzly - "I know you think the world revolves around your red states" What in the living fuck are you talking about? Republicans are the ones who love red states (Republican-voting states). Right-wingers also tend to be the ones who think the world revolves around their idea of 'Murica. Your leader Sarah Palin exemplified this by claiming that liberal states are not "the real America" and that "the real America" consists of Christian Fundamentalist Republicans and Tea Partiers in "Middle America" (the Midwest and Bible Belt). "Of course you do not refute my statement" I was unaware you were not American. Let me rephrase what I said: This is your brain on right-wing nonsense from whatever shithole you crawled out of.... "Just another arrogant leftist jihadist American "Let them Eat Cake" moment." Again you make no fucking sense. The Americans you call "leftists" (American liberals are not "leftist" in any meaningful sense of the word, by any objective standard American liberals and progressives are Center-Right or Centrist, American conservatives just tend to be Far-Right) are the ones who wish to help people in bad situations and help people out of poverty. The people the Right calls "takers". The Right are usually the ones who want the so-called "takers" to just suffer (let 'em eat cake). Just look at right-wing parties in Europe describing the poor as over-privileged parasites. And what the fuck did my post (saying "This is your brain on right-wing talk radio") have to do with letting poor and disadvantaged people suffer? How did that little comment show I don't care about poor people? Are you off your lithium? "Is it any wonder the entire world hates you and your kind." Uh, Earth-to-dumbass: The world typical hates American rightists. Not leftists. Why do you think the world hated Americans so much when George W. Bush was President?
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  6850. ***** - A blonde human is a different type of human than a redhead human. Doesn't make them a different "race". "I never said they were different "species." Well that's one definition of "Race". Scientifically a "race" usually means a Species or Subspecies. There's only 1 currently-extant Human species and subspecies: Homo sapiens sapiens. There used to be other Human Races (Neanderthals, Homo sapiens idaltu, etc.) but they're gone now. "If there weren't different kinds of humans we'd all have identical genetics" By that logic every last human being on the planet who is not an identical twin is a "different kind" of human. Since no 2 creatures have identical genes other than identical twins (but they have different fingerprints). "For example, a black human is different than a white human on the basis of genetics. Thus, there are different types of human groups" Skin color-wise, yes. Genetically? Depends on what you mean. While they are not genetically identical, on average a white human is more genetically similar overall to a black human than they are to another white human. For example: clinally East Europeans, on average, tend to be more genetically close to East Asians than they are to West Europeans. So, East Europeans would be closer to being the same "race" as East Asians than they would to being the same "race" as West Europeans.  "come from the same racial group" There is not genetic "White" racial group. Or "Black" racial group. There is no genome all white or black people belong to. The "race" you've assigned "white people" to is fictional scientifically. Unless you're just counting skin color. You're proving you have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about it. But it kinda cute sometimes when laymen pretend to "understand" science at levels they probably didn't even take beginner's courses in in grade school. It's like when 8 year olds pretend they understand adult matters to seem more "grown up".
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  6852. ***** - Sex differences are determined by chromsomes. There are no race chromosomes or genetic races. "race differences exist biologically independent of how they're expressed culturally" There are no biological races: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)#Modern_debate "Non-africans have roughly 1 and 4% neanderthal genes" That's a theory. And, what's your point? Many white Americans (about 1/3) have about that much (between 1-10%) recent African DNA in their ancestry. Does that make them a "different race" from white Europeans who have no recent African DNA? "Why do racial populations within our species such as blacks and whites is colloquially known to exhibit characteristic measurable distinguishable skull and skeletal morphologies? " 1) There is no skull shape or morphology that is universal to black and white people. The craniofacial features of Italians is more similar to people in the Levant than it is to Scandinavians. The craniofacial features of Somalis is more similar to that of Arabs and Italians than it is to Nigerians. The morphological structure of Sudanese people is more similar to Egyptians than it is to Kenyans. The body morphology of Russians is more similar overall to Mongolians than it is to Germans. By your logic Italians are a separate race from Scandinavians and Russians are a separate race from Germans. Sudanese people are a separate race from Kenyans, etc. 2) That's a poor argument. If Race was a biologically extant thing you could point to some sort of genetic line of demarcation and say "Okay, this gene determines the Black Race, the White Race, etc." Instead, you have to take some external differences between different groups (not even consistent ones at that), and jump to the conclusion that it somehow proves "race" exists. That's nothing more than the Causal Fallacy logical fallacy - assuming correlation equals causation. There are different groups of human hair and eye colors. Doesn't make them a "blue-eyed race" and a "green-eyed race".
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  6853. ***** - To be sure, there ARE genetic groupings among humans. However, these genetic groupings don't amount to "Races" because: 1) A "Race", taxonomically-speaking, would be a group that is morphologically homogeneous, has its own private evolution and common ancestor distinct form other populations, and its members are more genetically similar to each other than to outside groups. This does not apply to continental groups of humans. All humans are overall more genetically similar to people from other populations than they are to members of their own population. Europeans, Africans, Asians, etc. don't have their own separate and private evolutions. Humans have constantly migrated and intermixed throughout the entirety of human history. There is no morphological type that is unique only to "whites" or "blacks", etc. That and human genetic gradient changes clinally rather than cladistically: http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v36/n11s/full/ng1455.html?iframe=true&width=100%&height=100% http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm Hence why scientists avoid using terms like "Race" because the concept doesn't fit the reality and complexity of genetic, cladistics and Haplogroups. Humans that don't look much alike phenotypically can often be very close in genotype. Chadic-speaking West Africans and most West Europeans both belong to the R1b Y-DNA Haplogroup whereas most East Europeans don't. At most, the term "Race" can maybe loosely be applied to craniofacial types. Even then it wouldn't neatly correspond with genetic types. Ethiopians and Somalis would be "Caucasoid" because of their phenotypical features but genetically they're less genetically distant from Sudanese people than they are from Germans. Russians would be "Caucasoid" even though genetically they're often closer to Asiatic peoples.
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  6855. ***** - "Professors Adrian Bahan and Edward Jones co-authored a 2010 study on the relationship between race and athleticism in the international of design and nature and ecodynamics. They found that blacks tend to have longer limbs with smaller circumfrences, meaning that their centers of gravity are higher compared to whites of the same height" Studies like this are doomed from the very start. These studies don't take into account they're: 1) Measuring athletes. Athletes don't represent the average person. 2) They're assuming American athletes represent entire "races". They're assuming black runners represent all Africans. In reality, most record-setters for speed running tend to be of West African descent. Record-setters for endurance running tend to be of East African descent. Those require different muscle groups (fast-twitch vs. slow-twitch) and different morphologies (big calves and thighs are better for speed running, long legs better for endurance running). 3) This doesn't prove a "biological black race" exists. All you've proven is that people from certain regions of Africa may have morphologies suited for some sports while people from other regions tend to have morphologies better-suited for others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_sports#.22Black_athletic_superiority.22 The data actually puts a huge hole in "Race Realism" since the data would actually suggest that West Africans are a separate and distinct race from East Africans given they have different average morphologies and "race realists" tend to assume morphology = race. "Welcome to Race Realism" And this is exactly why "Race Realism" fails and is about as scientifically accepted as Creationism and Global Warming Denial - it's easy to scientifically refute. ;)  There's no conspiracy against your viewpoint. Your viewpoint simply doesn't match reality and it's fairly easy to poke holes in and rip apart its clumsy assumptions. Similar to Creationists, "Race Realists" start with a conclusion (that "Race" exists and that human prejudices and belief in race means it's real) then seek to find evidence to justify their conclusion, while ignoring anything that contradicts their views. In contrasts "race deniers", just like the Theory of Evolution and Law of Gravity, look at the evidence and draw a conclusion based on facts instead.
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  6858. ***** - "but it proves that genetics plays a significant role in determining our biology" No one is denying that. "Race" not existing does not mean genetics don't play a role in biology. Half of the problem is that most "Race Realists" don't even seem to understand what scientific consensus is or what it implies and entails. They don't seem to realize that "race" not existing does not mean that genes don't play a significant role in biology. Ironically the important role genes play in biology is the very thing that kills the "race" concept. "which in and of itself lends room for the existence of race" Non sequitur. That's like saying because environment plays a significant role in determining our biology that Environmental Determinism is true. Genetics being important =/= therefore Race exists "The genes that explain the IQ differences between the races" No they don't. To date not one "intelligence gene" or "IQ gene" has been discovered, just like there have been no "black genes" or "white genes". To date no scientist has located any intelligence genes that white people have that black people lack or vice versa.  IQ also changes radically over time for populations (see the "Flynn Effect"). That kills the idea that IQ is primarily determined by genes as genes don't change in just 100 years. Yet IQ has changed radically for black and whites in just 80 years. Again, a difference =/= genes cause it You're again relying on the Causal Fallacy. Assuming a correlation is a causation. Because there is a difference in white and black group IQ averages in the US does not mean it's BECAUSE they're black or white.
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  6861. stephenbarry14w - "No they do not" Yes they do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28human_classification%29 "They are just forced to say so because if they do not, the left wing s like you accuse them of being racist and destroy them" Horseshit.  Here we go. When right-wing racists and racialists can't back up their bullshit with science their last resort is to appeal to bullshit tinfoil hat conspiracy theories they cannot back up either.  1) Present evidence that tens of thousands of scientists around the world are being forced or coerced into silence about "the truth" by some vast political cabal. Who is this "left wing" cabal? How are they forcing these scientists to do anything? How will they "destroy" them? Who funds their means to do so? 2) Where is this magical evidence that proves race exists and that there is a hierarchy of racists? Who is hiding it? How do racialists supposedly know about it if this supposed vast left-wing conspiracy is hiding the "real data"? Who's leaking "the truth"?  3) Why do the minority of scientists who believe that race exists and that there is a hierarchy of races (like J. Philippe Rushton, Richard Lynn, Arthur Jensen, Satoshi Kanazawa, etc.) still have a job in the scientific fields if this cabal supposedly "destroys" you by calling you a "racist" (as if that's enough to stop your career)?  "You proved that the way you instantly assassinated Dr Watson's character" No I didn't. I pointed out that because he is a scientist does not mean that any view he holds on any issue isn't automatically correct. I pointed out the flaw in your Appeal To Authority fallacy.  "instead of counter his claims" Except I did. I pointed out that the majority of geneticists disagree with him and showed why they do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_%28human_classification%29 "The man who discovered DNA and the man who invented the brain scan" This same man also believes that Irish people are genetically more ignorant than other Europeans. I guess this must be true since the man who helped discover DNA believes so, correct?  Albert Einstein, the Father of Modern Physics, also believed Socialism is the correct system to have. He must be correct since he practically invented modern physics, yes? (given you seem to hate left-wingers) Isaac Newton, who revolutionized Physics, also believed in alchemy. So answer me, since Watson helped discover DNA is he correct in his belief that Irish people are genetically doomed to be ignorant people? He also believes that darker-skinned people make better lovers (are better in bed) than people with lighter-skin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_watson#Provocative_comments "and both were attacked and silenced by people like you" Bullshit. No one has attacked or silenced him. He's still an active scientist and still publishing reviews, books and studies. Scientists who don't believe in race, like Steven Jay Gould, got criticism from racialists like Ruston and Jensen, Murray and Herrnstein, Richard Lynn, etc.). Did they "attack and silence" Gould when they panned his book "The Mismeasure of Man"? If you say "No", how comes when scientists who do not believe in "race" criticize those who do it's "silencing" but not when scientists who do believe in "race" criticize those who don't? Why are you being a hypocrite? "who wish to suppress science fact" 'Race Realism' is not scientific fact. It's a pseudoscientific theory that is directly contradicted by scientific fact. That's why it's criticized and not widely accepted among scientists. Scientists generally don't accept unscientific beliefs as scientific.  It's fairly easy to show that "races", in fact, do not genetically exist among modern Homo sapiens: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)#Cluster_analysis "Anyone can see the races are different. Anyone with eyes can see that" eyeroll Anyone with eyes can also see that the Sun appears to revolve around the Earth and that the stars are much smaller than the Moon.  Science is based on FACTS. Not guesswork based on appearances. Because 2 people look visually similar does not mean they are genetically closer or part of the same genetic "grouping". Australian Aborigines are the population on Earth most distantly related to Africans. Europeans are genetically much more closely related to African populations than Australian Aborigines or the so-called "Negrito" peoples in Micronesia. The Sami people of Scandinavia, who generally have lighter features (light hair and eye color) are one the European populations most closely related to Africans. Doesn't look like it, does it? That's because scientific fact often contradicts and belies visual appearances. Just like the majority of stars are actually bigger than the Sun and the Earth actually revolves around the Sun, despite the Sun appearing to move in our sky. We don't base science on what people think they can see, dumbass. "Why would the races be the same?" That's not what science says either. You claim that scientists are being bullied into claiming that race does not exist, yet it's obvious you don't know what scientists are actually saying. Scientific evidence/consensus states that most differences in Human genes, alleles and traits differ within continental groups rather than between them. Ex: 85-90% of genetic differences in Europeans are between different European populations. Overall, Europeans are genetically more similar to any given population in East Africa than European groups are to each other. Only 10-15% of Europeans' genetic differences are differences from Africans or other non-Europeans, 85-90% of Europeans' genetic differences are differences from other European populations. This is because populations change clinally rather than cladistically. Populations move around the planet and as they move further away from their parental population loci there are slight changes to random letters in their genetic code over time, yet they remain more similar to their parental population loci than they do to other populations who move into the same area and co-evolve with them.  "We evolved in different environments, at different times" False. Human populations have constantly moved and intermixed throughout their history. People didn't move out of Africa directly to their current locations and sit there for 80,000 years. The majority of the ethnicities in Western Europe are relative newcomer Indo-European language speakers who have a different immediate ancestor than older European populations like Finns, Hungarians and the Basque. Western Europeans usually descend from people in the Near East and peoples in the Caucasus whereas Eastern Europeans more often descend from Central Asian peoples. We just call all these disparate people in Europe "white people" because they share similar skin color and some facial features (although that varies quite significantly). Because they all live in the same continent and share a similar skin color doesn't mean they're all 1 group genetically or that they share the same ancestry. Likewise, these disparate groups in Africa we call "black people" actually descend from different immediate ancestors from each other and are more genetically diverse than Europeans. Early researchers just lumped them together and called them all "black people" because they share a similar skin color.  Because people share a skin color and continent does not mean they are the same genetic tribe or even closely related. Some people in East Asia have pink skin, brown or blonde hair and blue or green eyes similar to Europeans, despite having very different ancestors. Australian Aborigines have blonde hair at higher rates than most Europeans, but are not closely related to Europeans. Genetic features can evolve independently.
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  6891. Rockownz5150 - Uh, where did I claim to be a big enthusiast of the Fed? I'm not at all. Besides, Schiff has been wrong many times before. So yes, I do DARE to talk about money in regards to him. "you pay them according to their productivity" Which they aren't being. Average productivity of the American worker has more than tripled since 1970 yet average wages have only gone up 5% for the average American worker since then. See the huge gap? Most American workers are being paid nowhere near their productivity levels. "Government laws like the min. wage law in the 1800s would have stagnated the process" Funny, the fastest and largest growth in wages in US history was AFTER we started regulating wage floors. "people were unbelievably unproductive" 1) So was the process back then but that didn't stop management from being paid top dollar. Salary for management skyrockets no matter what the conditions of the economy are or productivity are, pretty much. So their pay isn't predicated on productivity. 2) And as productivity rose did wages also rise? Not really. That's because employers don't pay you out of the goodness of their heart. If productivity raises they will NOT raise your wages if they can get away with it. That's because capitalism is about reducing costs and maximizing profits. Paying workers is a cost. Therefore, they'll pay workers as little as humanly possible. That's why wages haven't gone up much in the US since the 80s despite the minimum wage being mostly stable over the past 45 years.
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  8955. Trump supporters and the majority of modern American Republicans (since most Republicans STILL support Trump) are Falangists, Fascists and Nazis. Not Conservatives. They are reactionaries. Fascists generally won't admit to being Fascists in mixed company because they know what a taboo it still is to openly be one, so they hide behind labels of other political labels. Like "Conservative", "Libertarian", "Centrist", "Classical Liberal", "Paleoconservative" and "Apolitical". Nowadays when someone identifies as any of those labels there's an almost 50% chance that they're a Neo-Nazi or a Neo-Fascist "hiding their power level" (the Alt-Right cringily uses that term to mean hiding their real ideological affiliations when around non-Fascists, it's the right-wing secular version of the dreaded "Taqqiya" they accuse all Muslims of doing). That or they're a Neoconservative like Ben Shapiro or Charlie Kirk but want to pretend to be a moderate conservative rather than a big government and police state-loving Bushite. I'm a Leftist, but I appreciate honest Conservatives like Bundy who are consistent about their principles and live up to them. He's a consistent Classical Conservative and not a Neocon or a Fashy practicing Taqqiya (hiding their power level) by calling themselves a "Conservative" yet defending authoritarian Statism. *To be fair, your average everyday Trump supporter is politically uneducated or politically illiterate. Most of them probably don't know that their ideology is actually Fascism or Nazism because most don't truly understand what political terms mean. They think "Conservative" means agreeing with their far-right heroes since far-right reactionary demagogues usually intentionally mislabel themselves as "Conservative".
    1
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  16346. Gotta disagree with Kyle that without religion people wouldn't be homophobic. There are tons of atheist, agnostic, and nonreligious Millennials and Zoomers who are part of the Manosphere who are just as homophobic and transphobic as any religious conservative. Trans rights doesn't actually poll all that well either even among nonreligious people. Religion isn't some invasive memetic psychic force from another universe that invaded our reality. It's a bunch of ideas borne from human minds based on preexisting thoughts borne from preexisting conditions and questions about the universe, existence, phenomena early humans experienced, and the meaning of life. A simple Historical Materialist/Dialectical Materialist analysis is largely sufficient to understand how religion came about. Homophobia exists in most religions because homophobia already preexisted in human societies before religion. Religion largely just justifies feelings, ideas, suspicions, and inclinations that humans already had in a culture before the religion was created. Homophobia naturally arose pre-religion for the same reason most other bigotries arose: because the people who the bigotry is aimed at are different from the majority, or the bigotry was an ad hoc rationalization to justify some kind of oppression, alienation or conquest. Like modern racism was invented during The Crusades and the Age of Conquest to justify colonialism, mass population extermination, and slavery. Homophobia arose because some or many humans couldn't understand why some other humans aren't into what they find attractive.
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  23948. ​ @wvu05  This. I find that New Atheists are essentially just **inverse religious fundamentalists**. Just like religious fundamentalists they insist that textual litetalism, textual inerrancy, harsh eschatology, lack of exegesis (because understanding scripture non-litetally is a false interpretation in their minds), fanatical zeal, end-times obsession, and a vilgiantly exclusionary mindset and desire for non-believers to be punished is the only way holy texts can be read or that theology/religion can be believed in "correctly". Just like religious fundamentalists they insist that religious moderates, religious liberals, and religious progressives are intellectually dishonest people misinterpreting the scripture/religion and that religious conservatives/reactionaries are the only true believers or true followers who "correctly" understand it. A telltale sign that an atheist is a New Atheist is their insistence that religious people who aren't fundamentalists or theologically conservative are coping phonies not performing the faith correctly, while crazed fundamentalists are the ones doing it as the founder would want. They also tend to attack people who identify as Agnostic, Ignostic, or "Spiritual But Not Religious". New Atheists think that the only thing you can be is a raving reactionary theist who wants to harm or force nonbelievers into submission, or a hardcore Dawkins or Lawrence Krauss-style strong atheist. They view Agnostics as covert theists or Atheists who are "cowards", and view religious non-fundamentalists as unbelievers or atheists waiting to happen who are in denial.
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