Comments by "stream2watch" (@stream2watch) on "Anders Tegnell: Sweden won the argument on Covid" video.

@nillejoslin " In the autumn, only 8% of the population in Stockholm, the worst area, had anti-bodies." So I guess that means Tegnell is not a wizard and does not have powers of divination huh? I believe few of us expected that. Apparently this new disease did not trigger antibody response to the same extent that we estimated from studying previous diseases, but it does trigger t-cell response, which is similar in usefulness.
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@nillejoslin Only if you erroneously believe that he speaks in certainties and not probabilities.
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@nillejoslin "He talked about the country reaching herd immunity before the summer of 2020 so people could go to football games." As I said: only if you believe he speaks in certainties and not probabilities. He literally chooses words such as "troligt" instead of "så här kommer det bli". If you want somebody to speak in certainties, talk to a politician.
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@nillejoslin Now THAT'S a useless statement.
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Civil servant. Not politician.
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@lottesrensen8004 Both economies are doing great, and if it wasn't for a large amount of highly unfortunate very senior citizens in Sweden, the death rates would have been largely negligible. Next time around it is doubtful that a massive, hitherto unparalelled in history, lockdown strategy for the benefit of one certain demographic will be used. There will have to be other ways of dealing with issues such as these.
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The show ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.Melbourne 284 days of lockdown by now. That causes deaths. Got any excess death stats we can look at?
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@bentaxelrod You don't get to cherrypick parts of your country. What about Melbourne? World's longest lockdown. That causes untold misery and deaths. Let's see where your excess death numbers end up. "The rest of the world should take a lesson from places like New Zealand, [Australia]" OK. We are to be remote islands on the other side of the planet. Noted.
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It would be hilarious if it wasn't so bloody sad.
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You should probably reach adulthood before you start putting your foot in it online. Switzerland is not Sweden. Did you grow up in a cave?
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You seem to be confused about what consitutes a socialist country. Murikan by an chance?
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Apart from the fact that they're still Danes ;)
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But most of the recent dead in Israel are the anti-vaxxed. Of course they have a lot of "dieeasy" vaccine resisters in a theist society.
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"Those that have yet to receive even one shot of a COVID vaccine are only 17 percent of the eligible population in Israel, but they currently represent 65 percent of all serious cases in the country. According to Health Ministry data, the ratio of unvaccinated people among the severely ill has continued to rise as more people are inoculated against the virus. As of September 13, out of the 664 severely ill patients, 437 were completely unvaccinated and 168 had received two doses. Only 59 had received the booster shot. The ratios are similar when analyzing new infections. When calculating per capita, the contrast is even more stark. For every serious case of an Israeli over 60 that had received the booster shot, there are 33 serious cases of unvaccinated Israelis in the same age group." Haaretz. 14 September.
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" they only had a small number of people vaccinated yet the death rate was plummeting" Because there was a total focus on vaccinating the risk groups first .
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"Their own king admitted their strategy was a failure e" He literally just claimed that a situation with lots of dead can never be regarded as a success. Finer details matter.
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@docken11 Exactly. Details do matter, and it was you that failed providing the words. I did not even attempt a quote. A large number who have died is a terrible thing, and in the light of that, this can not be construed as a success. Context and detail is the thing.
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@docken11 "'its your comprehension which is the issue here. " Not really. I speak the language. Do you? The devil is in the details. Besides, the King can barely express himself in his own language. He is almost Trumpian in the respect.
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"sparsely populated country" Not really the case though. In the places where people actually live, it is not sparsely populated at all. The deep forests and national parks do not apply.
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@deaodaggi No Denmark is the only place that has the same level of urbanisation. Finland and Norway have way less. The differences in results are tied almost exclusively to old age care. Look at the age strata in EUROMOMO.
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@henrikl4244 Notice how the usual suspects can't counter the actual points you're making, instead opting to go all ad hominem. It's a sad state of affairs when purported adults act like that.
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As the other guy says. Lots of European nations had way worse numbers than Sweden too. Sweden did not have draconic lockdowns like Germany, Italy or the UK had with god knows what long term effects. Also less GDP drop than a lot of these countries. Probably way less lockdown related mental health and physical exercise related issues too. Lots of Swedes turned into fitness freaks during the pandemic while the people of some nations weren't even allowed to leave their houses. This all adds up.
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"Nachman Ash, the Health Ministry's coronavirus director-general said Thursday, as official figures showed that the 17 percent of eligible Israelis who have not received the vaccine account for 60 percent of coronavirus deaths in the past two weeks." Haaretz. 4 days ago
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They want Tegnell to say exactly what they feel. They would prefer if this scientist and medical professional got his info from FB news feed and kooky websites, like they do.
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Reuters: 5 MIN READ Social media users are sharing articles that discuss a study examining the transmission of the Delta variant of COVID-19 and falsely claiming the study found that fully vaccinated healthcare workers carry 251 times the viral load compared of those who are unvaccinated. . Many of the posts share an article (link removed) posted by the anti-vaccine campaign group Children’s Health Defense on Aug. 23, 2021 with the headline: “Study: Fully Vaccinated Healthcare Workers Carry 251 Times Viral Load, Pose Threat to Unvaccinated Patients, Co-Workers.” The subheading says the study found that “vaccinated individuals carry 251 times the load of COVID-19 viruses in their nostrils compared to the unvaccinated.” This, however, was not the premise of the study. Rather, it sought to compare viral loads among workers with Delta variant vs previous variants of SARS-CoV-2. The paper examines breakthrough infections in healthcare workers in Vietnam, all of whom contracted the Delta variant after receiving the Oxford-AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine. The paper does not conclude that fully vaccinated healthcare workers carry 251 times the viral load of the virus compared to unvaccinated healthcare workers. Rather, it concludes that “viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between March-April 2020.”
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@gabict8866 That's a different disease altogether. Moot point.
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As if they are even comparable places. You do your rolling lockdowns (Melbourne on day 235 now) and you deal with the health issues, suicides, alcoholism, wife beatings and bankruptcies that come with that, on top of not even being able to travel in your very own nation, then check back in a year or two. Let's see what you got right.
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Rates are irrelevant. Deaths are not.
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It is freely accessible by all for one. No cost vaccination. No cost tests. 4 years higher life expectancy compared to the US, which is probably a clear indication about how it stacks up.
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He was never an anti-vaxxer. He is a scientist after all.
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" your rushed jabb does not work" The dataset in your example is too small to draw conclusions from.
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The deaths were chiefly in the nursing homes. His authority has no say over the nursing homes. Bankrupted restaurants and other businesses kill people too. The "oh look at Norway" comparison is an easy feeble copout. Look at BE/NL. Look at ESP/PT. Massively different death rates with similar cultures and policies. Seems like epidemiology is an advanced science, and not suited for one-liner solutions, huh?
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@lucianmacandrew1001 What I said was that he has no authority over the nursing homes, which is factual. "but to save some money" Economy = lives.
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@stephenguy3901 "lockdown causes deaths .... how many , how do you know" Of course I do not. How do you measure the amalgamate of death causes that come from draconian lockdowns. Mental health related. Fitness related. Addiction. Financial. Then you have to observe the numbers over 20 years or so. In Europe we have EUROMOMO to trace excess death. I do not even know if you do that in Australia, and who you compare with. " Consider this , if the same death rate to population occurred in Australia as in Sweden ..... 45K" Lucky it is not early 2020, and we have matured enough not to draw dud comparisons between incomparable states then? Poland has 1900+ dead per million with a draconian lockdown. Germany 1.1K. Belgium 2.2K, neighbouring Netherlands 1K. Sweden's numbers are not especially bad from a European point of view. Besides, Australia have messed up their vacc program and due to that things would blow up in your faces if you let go of your lockdown at this moment. Is it true you are actual prisoners (again) down there btw? No travel allowed? Gee, do you reckon that will make people have faith in the gov ever again on any topic?
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@stephenguy3901 Points understood. From an overall health point of view it has actually been great though. Swedes have turned into fitness nuts and bicycles sold like hot cakes. As for "deaths , serious illness as an ok move to keep the economy afloat " Personal economy equals health, for a regular citizen. Remember the movie The Big Short? A quote there: "Every one percent unemployment goes up, 40,000 people die". It might not be that simple, and ofc the numbers are not translatable over bordrs, but for sure every percent unemployment does have a real fallout in bodies piling up. Tegnell is an expert in these things after all. Pandemics and their societal cost.
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@stephenguy3901 Why do you want to make a complex issue simple?
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@stephenguy3901 "I wasn't talking to you" That hardly matters. This is a public forum. " Let's just concentrate on Sweden's Nordic neighbours very similar demographics and population density ." That are not so similar. This has been answered in different levels of complexity, for more than a year. Maybe you haven't been taking an interest until now. "Population density" for example has been dealt with a million times before. It is not about grabbing the pop per km2 from Wikipedia and try to draw conclusions from it. It is about the level of urbanization and the demographics within those particular urban areas.
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@stephenguy3901 Good. Then you heard it.
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@stephenguy3901 I believe you are confused about the definition of silence. Difference, apart from level or urbanisation, number of foreign born, level of privatisation in old age care, early connection to Italian pandemic clusters, and 10K other "little things" we have been talking about since early 2020, you mean?
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@stephenguy3901 ". no one can seriously say Sweden handled it better ." And nobody is.
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@stephenguy3901 What are you smoking? Do I have to quote your own words for you to remember your own statement? Sweden has not handled it better (than its largely incomparable Nordic neighbours that you obsess about). It has handled it reasonably well in a European perspective and better than many of them, without draconic enforcement of BS lockdowns that are likely to cause more death than they prevent in the long run. " 1.15 million infected" is a bogus number for vapid minds. Infection numbers depend on testing level and testing efficacy. In Sweden, this was always about this being a marathon and not a sprint (official statement), and keeping people out of ICUs, and tighening restrictions if and when the society as a whole would stand behind it. This is a method designed by civil servants and scientists, and not a politician led dumpster fire management like UK, Italy and Australia has done. Look at your 280+ days of lockdown in Melbourne. Look at how you messed up vaccine procurement and turned your people into convicts or exiles. Look at your riots. Look at Britain's rules flouted by the powers that be and derided by everybody. Look at the Italians that were starving in their apartments. Look at all the people forced to wear face masks while jogging in the middle of forests. Sweden could do 10 more years of COVID management and the people would commit to it if asked to. 10 more years would lead to revolutions in other parts of Europe, or Brazil or US style of fatalistic anti-science taking root at the highest levels. What Tegnell understands, and none of you tourists do, is that the restrictions cause an immense personal and societal harm. The rest of you randomly "go tough" on lockdowns and restrictions on your citizens like you "go tough" in the war on drugs or war on terror, with a similar predictable result (failure). If you had kept up, you would understand that "Sweden has won the argument on COVID" refers to what role Sweden has played for the bonehead media in the early days (and apparently to some individuals that haven't kept up these days) as an example to juxtapose against your own random faffing about. If you had watched this channel since 2020, you would know this.
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@stephenguy3901 "none of it makes sense ." Much like your original post then. "Hurr durr look at Australia vs Sweden specifically" It has been interesting, Mr Tourist. Guess you understand by now that this is not a topic that is useful to "try and keep simple". Reminder. This is an endemic now. Not a pandemic. But do keep on locking your people inside or kept in exile if you want to pretend that you are doing something useful. Push that problem of unrealised education, employment, financial empowerment and personal development waaaay ahead of you like it's a hot potato.
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Long time death rate due to a ludicrous level of lockdown in Australia, god knows how many thousands.
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That's another country. Maybe next week.
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How many more deaths will Australia get due to unnecessarily strict lockdowns? How many fatty livers? How many suicides? Besides, Australian vacc rates are very low. Will they be able to catch up in time after bungling the procurement process? Their numbers will probably explode as soon as they are allowed to leave their homes. 235 days of lockdown in Melbourne huh? That sets people back 235 days+ in human development. There will be hell to pay. "Australia :1,200 Covid Deaths. Sweden : 14,000 covid deaths His actions made it more than ten times worse" Only if Australia and Sweden were in any way comparable places.
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It very much reduces the severity of the disease. The chance of you needing to go to an ICU for example. Much lessened if you have had the jab.
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My man! Well said. EDIT: and peeps. Even though I posted that 30 sec after him, we are not the same person. Random turn of events.
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