Comments by "Luredreier" (@Luredreier) on "Is Linus Trolling The Linux Community?" video.

  1. 22:14 He isn't blaming Linux for that, he's simply stating matter of fact this is how it is right now. You are blaming him for saying things he just isn't. You're not listening to his video in good faith. And it shows. Loving Linux is no excuse for being so defensive that you can't take constructive critizism without accusing people of being anti-linux or some such crap...
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  2. 7:56 Power shell isn't the default method of installing things on Windows. Linux GUI installers however has... issues...
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  3. 3:47 That is his objection. The first part isn't a objection. 4:12 You have experience with it. Of course it makes perfect sense to you. But it doesn't to a new user. And it would have been easy to give more information. 4:52 And that's the point. His objection as far as I understand it is that the bash error command isn't informative enough for a new user.
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  4.  @WR3ND  Phew, 3.11 That was my first OS. Still remember playing the labyrinth in Encarta (not sure about the version). I loved it. :-)
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  5. 3:14 No. For a professional level OS that's a valid argument. But for a desktop user experience that's meant to be simple for new users it's not. Manjaro, Mint etc needs to be usable by someone who doesn't know what a package manager is and has no idea how to search for it simply because they've never heard about it. Yes, it's perfectly fine to have different package managers. But you need easy to understand error messages that guides you in the right direction.
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  6. 6:14 And that is a problem for new users. Manjaro, Mint etc could fork bash and make it care, giving more information to new users. It doesn't need to include much. Just some simple prompts for common Linux software pointing people in the right direction.
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  7. 25:55 There is.
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  8. 21:08 Point is, the average gamer is not a tinkerer, he or she doesn't know how to do this stuff on Windows much less on Linux... And this is already giving them headache on the windows side of things. Some just give up and go for consoles. Others at least try to get things working in a computer. There's only so much they're willing to put up with. 21:13 Handholding is exactly what we should strive for. Not compulsory handholding, of course. But it should be *available*.
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  9.  @moe1829  Buying Linux compatible hardware is sound advice. That's out of our hands in the Linux community. And we can't do much about just how divided the community is. But we can at least do our best to make the user experience in our entry disteos as good as humanly possible. I don't expect the distro developers to know about these issues up front. Linux developers can't afford to pay people to test things out. But we need to accept the feedback we get and learn from it. And try to search for similar issues. UX design, good feedback in the error messages etc is all important for a good user experience for new users, and being the underdog we need to do better to then the big operating systems if we want increased market adoption. Because they don't have the hardware issues and other issues with lack of support, we do, so we need to make up for that with a otherwise superior product.
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  10. 7:33 That's your opinion. And I agree for vanilla bash. Not for manjaro, mint, pop, zorin or any other distro meant to be newbie friendly however.
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  11. 1:50 No, his objection isn't that it's not working, it's that the feedback when it fails isn't clear enough. And that is a legitimate objection. He wants a clear error message that explains that no, this doesn't work, and that perhaps guides the user towards the right software in some way. Nothing about what he says in any way, shape or form objects to apt not working on Manjaro. Everything he says objects to there being no feedback explaining why it doesn't work. There's not that many package managers for Linux, you can easily write a code that ensures that the most common commands for each of them gets a appropriate error message explaining what kind of software that command applies to and what kind of software is actually installed and its equivalent. Perhaps with a nice guide towards a help file for said command or a website with a guide explaining the various package managers,
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  12.  @WR3ND  When was the last time you needed to use a command prompt to start with in Windows for basic tasks? And for said basic tasks you'll never be asked to try a command prompt in a guide for the OS. And guides usually explain how to do things in multiple different Windows versions. That said, you're right, when you follow a guide for one windows version and there's no clue to how to solve a issue there when it's a different version then yes, it's a issue. In windows when you search for a setting you'll often get promoted to guides with different suggestions. Unfortunately there's privacy concerns with this approach. But there's certainly other ways to do this that's compatible with open source programming and privacy. And here's the thing. Parity with windows isn't good enough, we need to do better if we're to grow market share.
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  13.  @WR3ND  From what I remember of his other videos he tried but the GUI didn't do that great. And again, I'm not seeing a word of complaint about apt not working. The only complaint he had is the lack of feedback, and that's a valid point. As for what he already knows. The whole point of this challenge is to figure out what a normie will experience with Linux. Remember his audience. For technical viewers level1tech etc is way better. But Linus serves the normies. And this was all about if Linux is ready to be a mainstream desktop platform. And apparently it's not yet. Some of the issues he's having is due to exotic hardware on his end. And that is unfair towards Linux, and he admits as much. But open source or not, if we are to appeal to a wider audience and justify the attention we want from game developers, hardware developers and others then we need to actually be friendly enough to new people who does not have a technical background. And even those with one only have that much time and energy they're willing to spend working on issues with a new OS. There's so many people who has tried Linux, tested it out then returned to Window or Mac simply because while they like the idea it's just more effort then it's worth for them. And to retain that crowd we need a friendlier introduction. No one is suggesting that Arch or Debian should change to accommodate them. But for the newbie friendly distroes that's actually targeting this audience we need to make things as smooth as humanly possible so they can dip their toes in and discover how amazing Linux is one step at a time.
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  14. 7:28 3 seconds if you know what to search for.
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  15. 15:44 No, he's not. Yes, it was silly. But hey, if you don't understand something you'll try throwing anything at the wall to see what'll stick...
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  16. 7:44 No, assuming a priori information is unnacceptable if you want to appeal to the general user.
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  17. 23:31 Why? Why should they? Don't get me wrong, I love for them to do so. But *why*? You''re stating that they should as if it's wrong for them not to. As if there's an ethical imperative to do so. But I'm not seeing that. 23:48 Fair enough, but you can't expect normies to do that.
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  18. 7:13 That's acceptable for software intended for niche use. Not for general use. 7:16 Actually, it does. That's what error messages are all about.
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  19. 7:21 Yes, and that's a problem.It's fine for espesially interested people like us. But not your average Joe.
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  20. 26:15 Um, not really.
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  21. 22:30 Some try, and get bad experiences... Its easy to blame them, but it would help to try to work with the tools they're given to work with. Making it easy for them. When things are hard it's less likely that anyone is going to do it. Because their time costs money, and we're already a small enough community that the profit margin isn't that great. Steam is kind of saving us there though...
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  22. 2:46 Basically your objection to his objection is invalid because you completely and utterly failed to get what he is actually objecting too and complained about something he never said.
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  23. 12:18 No, it's not a Linux problem. It's a chicken and the egg problem, with hardware manufacturers. But that's not really the point. He's trying to show normies what they can expect upon booting Linux. Most of them only know the word "Linux" and have a vague idea that it is a "operating system" whatever that is and nothing else. Half of them don't even know that Windows, Internet Explorer and the Internet are three different things... And this is the kind of people you're expecting to know what the heck a "package manager" is... This is the kind of audience that Linus cathers to. Linux can't do anything about those hardware companies not supporting Linux. But we can do a whole lot to make Linux overall friendlier towards normies that doesn't know what a shell or a package manager or a distro is, and only barely know that a operating system is a thing. Because the more of them we can get the more likely it will be that we will get that hardware support that he's talking about... So while we have no direct controll over who the hardware manufacturers support. We have indirect influence on them through how beginner friendly we're able to make our OS.
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