Comments by "agon noga" (@agonnoga6100) on "ThePrint"
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@SG
You too have believed the propaganda that Pakistan dishes out to its population wrt East Pakistan aka Bangladesh.
Fact is, in 1947, East Pakistan used to have bigger economy than West Pakistan.
This situation started changing after the 1958 coup by Gen Ayub Khan. This is when West Pakistan started impoverishing East Pakistan to enrich itself. .
This is the genesis of the resentment of the Bengalis towards West Pakistan.
The Bengalis who visited newly created Islamabad, used to say that they can smell their looted money to create this city.
It was not the politicians, public or journalists but the Bengali economists who were the driving force behind the 6 points of autonomy of East Pakistan from West Pakistan which ultimately led to the 8 months long bloody civil war and birth of Bangladesh.
In fact, a Harvard educated Bengali economist had predicted breakup of Pakistan to Gen Ayub Khan way back in 1960.
As per Tariq Ali, 70% of Pakistan's foreign exchange in 1971 used to come from the jute trade in East Pakistan.
Pakistan was broke from the very beginning.
It got the recruitment ground of the British India Army but not the economy.
With the breakup of Pakistan in 1971, Pakistan is economically unviable.
After 1971, it has been artificially propped up by USA, Saudi Arabia and China.
Withdrawal of US support after 2022, has started Pakistan's current economic crisis.
Saudi Arabia too is no longer keen on carrying the burden of Pakistan for too long.
Only China is still propping up Pakistan with one loan after another leading to China becoming the largest debtor of Pakistan.
Economic collapse of Pakistan will lead to further breakup of that country artificially created by forcibly merging parts of India, Afghanistan and Balochistan to house all the Muslims in the Indian subcontinent.
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There was never any country called India prior to East India Company/British occupation of several kingdoms in South Asia many of whom were already under centuries of foreign occupation.
The word India, is a Greek word for the region we call Pakistan today.
The word Hindu, is originally a Persian name not for a religion, but for people living around Sindhu river whom we call Pakistanis today.
Only little more than 50% of today's India was British India.
The rest, were 565 autonomous princely kingdoms who weren't parts of British India.
Nehru's Kashmir; Tata, Godrej, Patel, Gandhi's Gujarat; Birla, Modi, Dalmia etc Rajputana aka Rajasthan were not parts of British India but people from these places were dominating both the politics and economy of British India while not being subjects of the Raj as their kings were allies of the British. That legacy, continues till this day.
Without the support of the kings of Rajputana, East India Company would have been thrown out of India in 1857.
It is only after this event that we see rise of many Marwari Gujarati and Parsi business houses in British India.
Congress, a political party was created by the British to help them rule India not to lead India to independence which is why people like Gandhi Patel Nehru Birla were opposed to independence of India as their land wasn't under British occupation but people like Bose, Bhagat Singh were dead against the British as their lands were under British occupation.
Our history books are completely silent about these facts as Congress, which took over from the British, has whitewashed Indian history and covered up uncomfortable parts of the history of the Indian subcontinent.
Our history books are also completely silent about 600 years of Chinese and Burmese occupation of Kamrupa aka North East before the British got it back from Burma in circa 1800 AD.
We have to question everything we have been taught and history needs to be rewritten.
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@orunabho cut the matter short, do away with central government as was envisaged in 1946 cabinet mission plan. Vehement opposition to this plan by crony capitalists profiteering under the British led to Congress, itself a creation of the British and propped up by these business houses withdrawing its consent to 1946 cabinet mission plan of autonomous states and a central government only in charge of currency, communication, foreign affairs and defense. Congress withdrawal from 1946 cabinet mission plan led to the partition of India and not Hindu Muslim divide as we have been led to believe.
So, let's conduct a referendum to see whether states want greater autonomy or more centralization.
Greater autonomy to states will not only lead to end of decades long insurgencies, separatism and terrorism but unleashing the true potential of the union of India.
Jyoti Babur, Mamata, Rahul Rajiv Gandhi, Modi etc are all a load of rubbish and the main reason for India's extreme backwardness and distribution of wealth as they are all belong to same power structure without which they are nobody.
Don't get fooled that there's any real rivalry between Rahul, Modi, Mamata, Yehchuri, Aravind etc as they are all dancing to the tunes of same few business houses who fund them.
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@Vir
This mess has happened because BJP has joined forces with separatist forces in NE to come to power in this region.
The people of North East don't consider themselves Indians and don't want to integrate themselves with India and Indians because they are not natives of India but settlers from China and Burma.
There was never any Nagaland or Mizoram but undivided Assam which was a Bengali kingdom called Kamrupa.
Kamrupa, Manipur, Tripura were Bengali kingdoms which were invaded and occupied first by the Tai Chinese in circa 1200 CE followed by Burmese invasion and occupation starting from circa 1400 CE to 1832.
1832 East India Company freed NE from Burma but with majority Chinese and Burmese origin people who have never considered themselves as Indians although many like in Assam and Manipur adopted local Bengali language, culture and customs.
This part of Indian history has been hidden by the government in New Delhi to buy peace.
This is also the reason why NE right from 1947 has been in a constant state of strife and unrest supported by China and Burma.
Not only Christian Nagas, Mizos but Hindu Meitei of Manipur and the Ahoms of Assam have been taking help from China and Burma to separate from India.
Contrary to what you have said, Hindi movies are banned in Hindu Manipur.
When diverse people settle in one area, there will be ethnic, religious, racial, linguistic clashes which is not limited to only NE but a pan India phenomenon.
To bring some semblance of peace we need a truth and reconciliation not lies, appeasement and suppression/distortion of history.
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@Venkat4G3B5 China, like India is a collection of ethnicities.
The various Indianised ethnicities form the Indian indentity.
Similarly, Han doesn't means China or Sino, but one of the 55 sinic ethnicities of China. You are mixing things up.
True, but, even after settling in India for centuries and adopting the local culture and customs, hasn't stopped clashes and tensions with the natives till this day which is the root cause of insurgencies in north east.
Similarly, the Turkic settlers also face similar problems in the places they have settled in India, like Hyderabad, Kashmir and parts of UP MP.
Something similar can also be said about the Parsis who have adopted local culture and customs, but have done everything to keep themselves separate from the natives although they don't have violent relations with the natives.
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@Venkat4G3B5 What you are saying is similar to Hindu Hindi Hindustan identity being conflated with the idea of India. Only a tiny minority, tick all three boxes
Similarly, Sino includes, Mongolian, Manchurian and various other ethnicities apart from Han who are the dominant community just like Hindi is the dominant community in India. But, Indian identity also includes Tamil, Odiya, Marathi, Gujarati, Kashmiri, Malayali, kannad, Bengali, Punjabi, East Indian Catholics, Assamese, Manipuri, Rajasthani, Maithili apart from 100 other identities.
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@mehmano9045 How can West Pakistanis be racist when majority of East and West Pakistanis belong to the same race?
Can Ethiopians be racist towards Sudanese as they both belong to the same race??
Yes, the Pathans are a different people who have similar views towards Mohajirs, Punjabis as well. Bengalis being no exception. Ayub Khan, Tikka Khan, Niazi, Yahya Khan were all Pathans.
If a Mohajir Musharraf, Punjabi Bajwa, Zia or Kayani were in place of the Khans, things wouldn't have taken such a drastic turn.
What the Bengalis experienced in 1971, the Punjabi Sikhs and Hindus had been experiencing for centuries which ended with 1947 partition.
If there was such extreme hostility towards the Bengalis, Pakistan would've broken up in 1950 or 51 when there was major agitation over language. Even today there's a large Bengali population in Pakistan who have never complained anything about racism.
Entire southern coastal region of Pakistan called Makran has a large population of African origin people.
The people close to the areas bordering India where temperatures reach 50 degrees Celsius people there generally tend to have very dark skin on both sides of the border. No one complains of racism.
Bangladeshis like Pakistanis and Indians are a mixed lot where on average they have slight built, medium to short height and brown skin with yellowish tinge.
Indians did nothing.
Pakistanis, particularly fat headed Pathan generals of Pakistan army and Bhutto screwed up very big time.
Bengalis didn't want Bangladesh but autonomy under 6 points which could have been greatly watered down if Mujibur became PM and Pakistan army put pressure on him.
It is only when the West Pakistani army attacked the East Pakistani civilians, military, paramilitary and police that the war cry for Bangladesh was raised.
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@Guptaji who is a Hindu???
You think Jats, Yadavs, Brahmins, Dalits, STs etc within Hindi belt are one people even if they are so called Hindus??
You think Tamils, Punjabis, Kashmiris, Marathis, Telegus, Biharis, Odiyas, Gujaratis, Bengalis, Pahadis etc etc etc can all be considered one and the same people because they are supposed to follow a faith whose name itself is a Persian/Arabic name??
PS: I don't know about Himachal but people of Uttarakhand speak Garhwali and Kumaoni which are not Hindi.
The Garhwalis and Kumaonis are very different from the people of the Hindi belt.
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In this day and age, anything that is large and slow will be destroyed.
Therefore it makes no sense in having a large fleet of surface naval vessels.
It makes far more sense for India to focus on SSN, SSGN, nuclear powered armed and unarmed underwater unmanned vessels, hypersonic anti ship missiles, drones, UCAVs, long range heavy bombers, long range heavy fighters, spy satellites, long range heavy torpedoes etc.
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@sevenstars4817 Kamrupa aka north east was always a part of India as natives are Bengalis which changed after Ahoms from China invaded and occupied Kamrupa from 1200 AD to 1400 AD.
From 1400 AD to 1800 AD North East was part of Burma.
1800 AD the British invaded and annexed Burma with British India. This is how after 600 years of Chinese and Burmese occupation, Kamrupa aka undivided Assam aka North East returned to India but with majority ethnic Chinese and Burmese population.
In 1937 when the British separated Burma from India they retained Kamrupa, Manipur Tripura with India as these places have always been parts of India but now with majority ethnic Chinese and Burmese population due to 600 years of Chinese and Burmese occupation of these places.
People with Chinese and Burmese blood are as foreign to India as the British, Portuguese, Afghan, Arab, Turks.
British, French, Portuguese have left India because they were very few in numbers and had a decent country to return back to.
People of Chinese, Burmese, Turkic, Afghan, Arab, Persian origin in india have huge population and have third class conditions in the countries of their origin. Neither can they return back to the country of their origin and neither can they integrate in India with Indians leading to perpetual ethnic, racial and communal tensions with the natives.
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You are forgetting India, itself is a creation of the British.
There was no country called India, prior to arrival of East India Company.
It is not only police, but our army, political system, political parties like Congress, our laws, courts, economy, business houses etc etc were all created by the British to subjugate, exploit and extract from India.
1947, wasn't independence of India, but a transfer of power from the British to the power structure who were supporting the British in India. We also need to keep in mind, only little more than 50% of today's India was British India. Rest were independent kingdoms allied with the British and under the suzerainty of the British but not part of British empire.
If Herr Hitler didn't start world war two, even today India would be a colony of British and we would be singing God save the king instead of Jana Gana Mana.
To shed our colonial legacy, power needs to move from New Delhi to the states as was planned in the 1946 cabinet mission plan and advocated by Modi through "competitive and cooperative federalism". But, can he walk the talk? Under Modi we are seeing greater centralization due to pressure from crony capitalists who cannot survive without the patronage from Dilli Durbar right from the days of the British.
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India, is a union of states and not a nation state.
This is how the constitution of India defines the union of India.
So, a pan India so called "national party" is an aberration.
We have been passing of political parties of the Hindi belt as national parties.
And non Hindi parties as regional parties.
Together the non Hindi political parties represent 2/3 of the population.
If political parties like NCP/SS, TMC, YSRCP, DMK, TDP, Akali Dal, BJD, TRS, JMM, SP, RJD get together, this combine will be the strongest political force in the country before which Congress and BJP are absolutely nothing.
A vast and extremely diverse subcontinent like India cannot be represented by one political party dominated by one individual or family from one state of India.
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@jadabchetia7755 Ahoms are Tai Chinese and not Indians.
Circa 1200 CE Bengali Kamrupa aka undivided Assam was invaded and occupied by Tai Chinese. The Meitei of Manipur are also Tai Chinese.
If you are an Ahom, then you are Tai Chinese. The language, culture, customs and history of NE prior to 1200 CE are Bengali.
From 1400 CE NE faced invasions from Burma and eventually became a part of Burma.
This is how Burmese Austroasiatic people ended up in NE.
This is also how Kuki, Naga, Mizo Burmese Chin people whose roots are in China ended up in India during Burmese occupation of North East.
NE returned to India after 1832 when East India Company liberated North East and returned to India but with majority Chinese and Burmese origin people who have never accepted themselves as Indians.
How can Chinese and Burmese origin people become indigenous people of India??
Those you are calling Tripuri, that isn't their real name as they are tribes from Burma who settled in Tripura. This is why they have surnames like Burman, Debbarma which means people from Burma.
If those whom you call the indigenous people, if they were truly the indigenous people of these parts, then NE would be part of China and Burma not India.
NE is in India because they are the ancestral lands of Bengalis.
You are the best proof of what I have said. You have a Bengali sounding name, you speak a language which is similar to Bengali but by blood you are predominantly Chinese or Burmese.
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@biswaroopmaiti2943
Dalals of import lobby are even a bigger threat to India than China or Pakistan.
You want to tell me the Jaguars, Gnat, Tejas, Dhruv, Rudra are "poorly manufactured"??
How can they be poorly manufactured if HAL uses the same equipment and manufacturing process as the OEM?
Just because it is being built by Indians suddenly something becomes bad?
Those fighters which have a bad reputation are Soviet fighters, which have limited shelf life.
If you use something way past its expiry date, what do you expect?
It is corrupt IAF, which deliberately kept changing specs of Tejas every time it reached finalization, leading to long delays. It is Manohar Parrikar who forced IAF to induct Tejas, only after which things speeded up.
The result of the delay in the induction of Tejas has led to India being unprepared vis a vis China and loss of lives due to flying fighters way past their expiry date.
If IAF gave measly order, how can HAL increase the assembling capacity as parts of Tejas are being manufactured by Adani, Ambani, Tata etc?
What will you say about those ORMs who have no qualms in jumping in bed with bankrupt, corrupt companies having absolutely no connection with aerospace engineering while doing everything to avoid partnering with HAL as it will lead to real transfer of technology to india?
Where is loss making "Horn OK Please" Tata's own plane???
Why are we importing a foreign aircraft at inflated prices, which SG doesn't say, through a manufacturer of trucks, salt, coffee, watches, jewelry etc??
What's happening?
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@Praveen Swamy
Mukti Bahini was not Maneckshaw Shaw's army of liberation.
It is because of the 9 months long civil war waged by the Mukti Bahini consisting of East Bengal Regiment, East Pakistan Rifles, police and Bengali civilians who took up arms that led to liberation of Bangladesh.
India intervened only in the last 13 days of a 9 months long civil war when the West Pakistani forces were already on the backfoot due to effective blockade of East Pakistan both by Indian Air force and the Indian navy.
When India intervened, the West Pakistani forces were without any food, ammunition, supplies and reinforcement.
Fact is when Indira Gandhi asked Maneckshaw to attack Pakistan in April 1971, he said he is unprepared and India will lose the war therefore he is willing to resign.
How can an army chief say this after India had fought a war with Pakistan only 6 years ago?
Fact is, East Pakistan was separated from West Pakistan by more than 1000 miles of hostile territory known as India.
In March/April 1971, Pakistan didn't have a large force in East Pakistan and they didn't have any tanks or heavy artillery even till the end of the 9 months long Pakistani civil war.
If India attacked in April 1971, when Pakistani forces were quite small and the East Pakistani military and paramilitary forces had rebelled against the West Pakistanis, India could have not only easily defeated West Pakistani forces but also saved several lakhs of lives that were massacred during the 9 months civil war.
From March 1971 to December 1971, West Pakistani forces in East Pakistan had ballooned from 30,000/40,000 to more than 300,000 troops.
The West Pakistanis managed to create a force of more than 200,000 by recruiting local Biharis and pro Pakistani Bengalis.
If Sam Bahadur had shown bahaduri and attacked Pakistan when he was asked by the PM instead of offering to resign, Bangladesh would truly be liberated by India.
Fact is the Bengalis fought a 9 months civil war with support from India and USSR which is missing from the popular narrative to liberate their country.
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