Comments by "Cole Behnke" (@colebehnke7767) on "TIKhistory" channel.

  1. Most of those have rules on how they can take property, the Nazis suspended those rules.
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  2.  @kabedonovan5555  so your arguing that all countries are socialist? I don’t get why you are telling me this.
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  3.  @andyknowles772  they abolished private unions and required membership is the sate run union, that’s socialist policy. The DAF had a membership of 32 million. For someone who hates unions they sure created the biggest union at the time. They suspended private property rights in 1933 in the rightstang fire decree, that’s socialist policy. Actually watch the video before you comment under it, for your own sake.
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  4.  @andyknowles772  suspending private property? Requiring union membership? Gleichschaltung?
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  5.  @andyknowles772  all the socialist policies they did implement, as shown in the video.
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  6.  @andyknowles772  my boy, that is dictionary definition of socialist policy, every communists state has had a nationalized union that was controlled by the state. And when a union is controlled by the state its no longer for the workers benefit. I love how your moving the goalposts, btw.
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  7.  @andyknowles772 you should actually watch the video? This was addressed.
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  8.  @brandonmorel2658  so you didn’t understand a thing I said, Hitler simply combined the two biggest ideologies in Germany at the time. You really should watch the video, he addresses all of that.
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  9.  @andyknowles772  you asked for any socialist policies that the Nazis implemented, I provided three, you then shifted the goalposts and said one of those socialist policies weren’t actually socialist when the Nazis did them, disregarding the fact that it was a socialist policy when the Soviet Union did it.
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  10.  @executivedirector7467  can you provide a sample?
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  11. So you didn’t watch the video…
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  12. Did he say that before or after he suspended private property rights?
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  13.  @executivedirector7467  so a socialist was in Germany, saw how socialist it was, wrote exactly what he saw, but because he was socialist he couldn’t say it was socialism. TIK addressed this is his 9 hour video.
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  14.  @leftistadvocate9718  see the rickstag fire decree.
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  15. How is he wrong?
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  16. Socialists kill other socialists all the time, so try again.
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  17. So you didn’t watch the video? I mean all of your arguments were dismantled in the video. Most of the video goes in depth of what the Nazis actually did.
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  18. 1. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist? They kill of rival socialist parties and outlawed them. 2. The workers control of the means of production is Marxism, not socialism. And crushed trade unions? Every other socialist attempt did the exact same thing. Class struggle is Marxism, not socialism. Hitler hated a rival version of socialism. 3. Do you have any evidence for the idea that the Nazis used socialism in their name as bait? Or are you assuming what they were doing? 4. He wasn’t capitalist in any sense of the word. He was focused on centralizing the economy into the hands of the Nazi party, aka the state. The rich were only in power as long as they supported him. 5. The Nazi party was largely a grassroots organization until they took power, so to say they were capitalisms most brutal attack dog makes no sense.
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  19. Socialism is older then Marx, so to say any forms of socialism that disagree with marxism are not socialist is a perversion of history.
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  20. There is nothing about socialism that says it can’t be racist, xenophobic, or narcissistic, and almost every form of socialism hated its sisters.
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  21.  @hp5864 I mean, socialists imprisoned and killed other socialists all the time, Hitler isn’t special.
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  22. Uh, that’s marxism, which is only one subcategory of socialism.
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  23. Dam, it’s almost like Hitler hated communism because it was dividing the working race.
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  24. He is an actual historian, how is he not?
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  25. So you have any actual arguments?
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  26.  @randomuser3481  the most accurate definition of socialism is the collective control over the means of production. Marxism just came up with the idea that workers should be the collective.
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  27. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  28. How so?
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  29. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  30. What? It had to invade its neighbors and export its inflation to them, it was no way not collapsing.
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  31. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  32. How is he sympathetic to Nazis?
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  33. It’s funny because TIK is against nazis, you know, cus they are socialists.
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  34. Yet he didn’t, as shown by the death tolls, if he wanted socialists dead he would’ve killed them at the same scale as he killed the Jews.
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  35.  @thurin84  it’s as coercive as having to pay a farmer for their labor.
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  36. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  37. As socialists tend to do.
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  38.  @Manny.EscobarJazz links? Ah, there’s your problem. 1. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist? They kill of rival socialist parties and outlawed them. 2. The workers control of the means of production is Marxism, not socialism. And crushed trade unions? Every other socialist attempt did the exact same thing. Class struggle is Marxism, not socialism. Hitler hated a rival version of socialism. 3. Do you have any evidence for the idea that the Nazis used socialism in their name as bait? Or are you assuming what they were doing? 4. He wasn’t capitalist in any sense of the word. He was focused on centralizing the economy into the hands of the Nazi party, aka the state. The rich were only in power as long as they supported him. 5. The Nazi party was largely a grassroots organization until they took power, so to say they were capitalisms most brutal attack dog makes no sense.
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  39. Did you actually watch the video?
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  40. How so?
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  41. So no actual arguments?
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  42. I mean reality is unfair and any economic system that really goes against that is out of touch with reality.
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  43. Dam, did you even watch the video?
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  44. What do you think of Utopian Socialism? It was a form of socialism that existed before Marxism that didn’t divide society by class.
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  45. ​ @genxploits unfortunately he can't answer because he hasn't watched it.
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  46. So they weren’t a totalitarian state?
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  47. Socialism divides society by class, Nazism is all about uniting the classes against their true enemies, the other races. At least that’s what the Nazis say.
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  48. So you didn’t watch the video?
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  49.  @psychedelicprimate8974  so you have no arguments against the contents of the video. Why are you commenting?
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  50. Na, he had to invade the rest of Europe otherwise he would’ve ran out of money to spend on all his socialist programs.
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  51.  @xxxXOctaneXxxx dam, it’s like you didn’t watch the video where he address all of that. There is a reason it is 5 hours long… Also fascist sympathies? He believes fascism is socialism and hates socialism.
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  52.  @xxxXOctaneXxxx so any arguments that he didn’t dismantle in the video?
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  53. He never said fascism was Marxism.
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  54.  @GIJames  basic written history like how eugenics was a workers ideology in Germany at the time?
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  55. Why?
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  56. How so? You dispute the sources?
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  57. ⁠ @Communism_Inc._official oh my god! Primitive communism! Can you be less idiotic? Like the Nazis themselves claimed that they were the successors of primitive socialism, and that the Jews corrupted it by making it about class. Thus Hitler making his socialism about race is returning it to its original meaning. The entire structure of the ideology is the same, Hitler just switched out race for class, and that then obviously led to hating Marx. Weren’t you the one who just said that capitalism isn’t an ideology? Then what is this capitalist performance cult? Also didn’t most socialist countries also use the monicker antisocial to degrade their enemies?
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  58. What’s Nazi apologist about it? Did you watch the video?
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  59.  @charliemoore2551 dam, every argument you bring against the video was addressed later in the video.
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  60.  @wendigaro438 it’s only nazi apologia if you think explaining their ideology is nazi apologia.
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  61. What in the world are your talking about?
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  62. So you didn’t watch the video?
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  63. How is that any different from what the Soviet Union did?
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  64.  @Azazin187 ​⁠ 1. I mean if they really were socialist they would’ve used the same propaganda, so that’s irrelevant. 2. The suppressed everyone, and their suppression of their fellow socialists is not unique amongst socialists. 3. Economically they are indistinguishable from other socialist countries of the time, privatization wasn’t even a state sanctioned idea, it was named by a few low level members of the party and was completely ignored. 4. They were not marxists, they were socialists. They started at the same place, that humans are naturally good and it’s the society that corrupts them, so if we remove the corrupting influences from society then we could achieve a utopia where everyone is equal. 5. What do you think TIK is doing? He goes through the sources and asks “what biases does this source have.” Turns out a lot of the reputable sources of the time claiming the nazis are not socialists have marxist biases and so that must be accounted for when studying their work.
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  65. Something I think is relevant is the idea the civilizations use certain negative emotions to unite the people, most of the world uses shame, while the west uses guilt.
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  66. Did you actually watch the video?
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  67. But price controls before the war?
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  68. Socialists kill other socialists all the time.
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  69. How so?
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  70. Why are we listening to Lenin? Didn’t his socialism do the opposite and grow the state to obscene prepositions?
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  71. You’ve made no actual arguments, try again.
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  72. So did you actually watch the video?
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  73. So you have any evidence? Quotes? Documentation?
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  74. Did you watch the video?
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  75. Did Stalin do the same thing? It just looks like a standard socialist tactic to me.
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  76.  @alexxx4434  you do understand that fascism was a syndicalist movement, right?
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  77.  @xxxXOctaneXxxx you didn’t even watch it, so your claim are completely lack evidence, and claim without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
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  78. And whats wrong about discovering historical facts?
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  79.  @GIJames  you still can’t explain why it’s wrong.
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  80. ​ @omarisawesome1996 same thing...
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  81. How so?
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  82. Did you actually watch the video?
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  83.  @hansjalv  well it was two socialist movements trying to take power, so people were hedging their bets on which socialist movement they thought would win, and witch they thought would be the lesser evil.
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  84. So you didn’t watch the video?
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  85. The Nazis suspended private property. So by default things were owned socially.
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  86. Please try again, boy. All your arguments are ether completely incorrect or have been addressed in the video. Collective control can only exist with a government. Nazism combined the two most popular ideologies in Germany at the time, marxism and eugenics. His hatred for communism was born out of marxism, he believed that Marx corrupted real socialism like how Marx believed liberal democracy was capitalists corruption of real socialism.
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  87. How did they hold the means of production if there were no private property rights?
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  88.  @Scrubletman632 appeal to authority. He directly quotes hundreds of those studies, and shows how they twist definitions and facts. tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  89. Dam, it’s almost like you didn’t watch the video…
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  90. But the opposite is true, he was bad because of his socialist policies. Those policies required him to start the war or face economic collapse.
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  91. Did you watch the video?
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  92.  @charliemoore2551 ok where? So for I’ve seen a bunch of historians contradict themselves within the same paragraph, so I don’t have high hopes.
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  93. You should probably watch some of his other videos, TIK considers fascism and Nazism to be sub-ideologies of socialism.
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  94. Odd, the fascists say the exact same thing about socialism. So what source in the video is disinformation? Or did you not watch it?
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  95. And your quote explains why they were socialists. Socialism isn’t the democratization of the workplace.
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  96. So you didn't watch the video?
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  97.  @RickMastroianni so how can you claim that he is rewriting history then?
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  98. Did you actually watch the video?
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  99. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  100. Please try again, Marx introduced the concept of class analysis to socialism. Saying that Hitler can’t be socialist is ignoring hundreds of years of history.
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  101. ​ @peterharris4386 yeah, and it explains how the primary sources for the privatization myth was from a British economics magazine, which described nationalization.
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  102. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  103.  @SulliverVittles well the Soviet Union did the exact same thing, so your clam that no socialist community ever did that is blatantly false. According to you the Soviet Union, the socialists that Hitler was raving against, were in fact not socialist? A single nationalized trade union with no democratic control is vary common in socialist countries. Same with banning collective bargaining, because when the collective owns everything then protesting means your protesting against the collective.
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  104. So you’re ignoring the whole history of socialism then?
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  105.  @surgeland9084 so you didn’t watch the video? Why comment under it then? Like how weren’t the Nazis socialists?
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  106. ​ @surgeland9084  yeah doubt. If you did you would know that around 70% of the nazi party were previously socialists. For a group who purged the socialists they sure had a lot of socialists. Basically every other point you make is just like this one, addressed in the video.
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  107. He never said it was
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  108. ​​ @miasmavoid ok what source do you have for that claim? That Hitler privatized industries?
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  109. But his sources are.
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  110. Captisilm is the best we got, any other system will be worse. Just check out all other socialist nations and how they handled the environment.
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  111. How is it a grift?
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  112. You have any evidence for this claim?
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  113.  @alexxx4434  and socialism doesn’t allow for centralized state control?
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  114.  @alexxx4434  you seem to think that centralized state control makes one exempt from being socialist instead of being a primary objective of it.
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  115.  @alexxx4434  your argument, “Fascism is capitalism trying to survive” falls apart when you realize that fascism was born a socialist ideology by socialists that then what on to do socialist things.
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  116. Can you provide a contemporary source describing their economic policy as privatization? Checkmate socialists!
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  117.  @ntokozosibanyoni1421  well TIK did the research for me, turns out no one at the time called what the Nazis were doing privatization, that was just a myth created by a few people who didn’t understand how nasalization works in the real world.
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  118. Wait! You went and checked out someone else because someone told you to under this video, without actually watching this video? Can you be more pathetic?
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  119.  @andyknowles772 considering how all your responses have been pathetic, I take it that your haven’t actually watched the video?
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  120. TIK was a socialist before he realized that Hitler was a socialist, so all the definitions he used to come to this conclusion are socialist definitions.
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  121.  @arnaudaerts1726  you know the Nazis did both of those things, right?
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  122. We was a socialist, so if anyone knows it’s him.
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  123.  @bananabourbonaenima when has socialism been about equality?
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  124. How so?
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  125. Did you watch the video?
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  126. So what’s wrong in the video?
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  127. What’s fascist about it? It literally is against fascism.
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  128. Did you actually watch the video?
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  129.  @bakters depends, there are a million ways to deal with it.
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  130.  @bakters there are a million ways to deal with negative behavior, it’s agreed upon that if you take someone’s rights you leave yourself open to having your own rights taken.
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  131. How so?
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  132. ​​ @suruxstrawde8322  do you have any evidence for this claim? And did you actually watch the video that showcased how they ruled the same way as other socialists?
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  133. I mean all forms of socialism require feelings of superiority over another group.
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  134.  @fahrenheigh where do you show that the subject of this video is false? Or are you telling me that without any evidence? Hell you didn’t even watch the video did you?
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  135.  @FaustLimbusCompany  the reason we make this argument is because most of Hitler’s bad ideas come directly from socialism. Dehumanizing a segment of the population is wrong, no mater if it is a class or race.
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  136.  @nathanbrownmolotov8697 yeah try again…
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  137.  @charleymount582 he also ended private property rights…. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video.
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  138.  @timfrye3586 dam, maybe you should actually watch to see how he actually proves you wrong…
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  139.  @tylerhebron320  like the US, the German government also had the ability to seize private property, but they had to follow a set of procedures. Guess what the Nazis removed? The necessity for procedures. After 1933 all property was on lease from the government as long as you used it to support their goals, it just so happens that they wanted to socialize the people (as all socialists want to do) and once they did that the people were going to support their goals, so you didn’t need to revoke their property.
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  140. How so?
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  141.  @KeigoUmemura how else are we supposed to know what he wanted to do? Ignoring what he says he believes is ignoring a huge chunk of history.
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  142. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video?
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  143.  @charliemoore2551 trump is a populist, but he never claimed to be a socialist. Fascists to this day claim to be socialists, where are your arguments against them?
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  144.  @imalwaysbluffing then why comment?
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  145. The workers owning the means of production isn’t socialism, otherwise it wouldn’t be called that.
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  146. How so?
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  147. How so?
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  148.  @zoidburger2830  so if the Germans killed off all other races and socialized themselves, then you would have an equal state?
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  149. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist?
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  150. Did you actually watch the video?
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  151. How so?
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  152. Dam, so we can’t consider any extinct form of Christianity to be Christianity because it is dead?
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  153.  @Binzob I mean how much free market do we actually have? The things that are the worst are the things that have the most government intervention. Just look at education or healthcare.
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  154.  @Effective_tool_of_Satan  so the Nazis hated capitalism, yet they are completely capitalist in nature? Don’t make much sense to me.
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  155. Is he wrong?
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  156.  @Artixou  socialism isn’t the redistribution of wealth either.
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  157. Like what?
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  158. Dam, it’s almost like the west absorbed Soviet propaganda to have a united front, then the Marxists who ran to America academia quickly established the “case of war” narrative that are extremely hard to challenge.
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  159. Uh, the Nazi Party had the largest trade union at the time.
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  160. And who privately owned them?
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  161.  @eduard.1917 and he killed capitalists at the same rate, does that make him anti capitalist?
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  162.  @xtoll123  I believe socialism was based out of some misconceptions about human nature, mostly the social engineering stuff, and is unfortunately doomed to fail because of that. Additionally I can’t except your definition of capitalism, because under it every socialist regime would’ve been capitalist, basically making it worthless as a word.
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  163. So you have any actual arguments against this video?
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  164. How so?
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  165. Dam, what does far right even mean? Like fascism was a socialist ideology as well. Try actually watching the video before spewing this nonsense.
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  166. How so?
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  167. Dam, it’s almost like they weren’t communist, they were race based socialists.
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  168. So you didn’t watch the video, gotcha. Like I can easily refute all of these arguments, but this is such a gush Gallup that there really is no point.
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  169.  @randomuser3481  can you provide a contemporary source that backs up the claim that they privatized the economy?
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  170.  @Azazin187 I love most of your excuses here. 1. Ethno-nationalism, social darwinism, or antisemitism don’t make something not socialist. 2. They actively thought the conservative elements to not be threats, which is countered by the fact that conservative elements where the only ones to attempt removing hitter. 3. Did you actually watch the video? TIK quotes from those vary books. Anyone who’s telling you they didn’t centrally plan the economy has clearly not read the sources. 4. Social Darwinism was created by left wing academics. 5. He’s using contemporary sources for this. Basically everyone who has saying the Nazis weren’t socialist just after the war were socialist themselves. The truth is TIK has been debunking most academics because he actually goes to the sources and studies them critically.
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  171. The truth on the matter is that the Nazis didn’t have the support of big business until after it looked like they were going to win. So in all actuality it was the reverse that was true, that they used used anti-socialist rhetoric to gain the support of big business in the months leading to them taking power.
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  172. How so?
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  173. ​ @peterharris4386  who did they privatize them to? Private individuals, or organizations within the nazi party?
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  174. So was the Soviet Union…
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  175.  @walterbailey2950  so you know nothing of what the Nazis actually believed? Because what you said there was not what they believed at all.
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  176. You do understand that there are more kinds of socialism then marxism, right?
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  177. ⁠ @SulliverVittles name a socialist country that didn’t purge other socialist parties, in fact the Soviet Union killed off way more socialists then Germany ever did. The Nazis banned private trade unions, consolidating them into the single nationalized trade union, the DAF, witch had 32 million members. This is almost identical to how Cuba and the Soviet Union treated trade unions. The only thing you have here is the halting of wages, witch wouldn’t be possible under a free market system.
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  178. Their racism was their socialism.
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  179.  @teresacastro1263 they should also call the Soviets union far right if that was the logic they were using.
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  180. How so?
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  181. Why did the Soviet Union do the same thing?
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  182.  @paulsame1124  I mean if the Catholic Church took over the country, suspended all private property rights, and required all businesses to be owned by loyal Catholic Priests, I would say they nationalized their economy.
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  183. Did you watch the video? Hitler was a socialist, not a Marxist.
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  184. How so?
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  185. What lies?
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  186. No formal instruction? He has a degree in history.
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  187.  @simonbutelerdellepiane5564  so what did he get wrong in this video?
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  188. Well socialism isn’t Marxism, but Marxism is socialism.
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  189. Na, he is just being a historian, looking at the sources and considering their bias.
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  190.  @psychedelicprimate8974  he isn’t saying they are the same thing, he’s saying that Nazism, Fascism, and Marxism are all separate socialist ideologies.
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  191. Do you even listen to him yourself? He addresses all of that. Socialism isn’t marxism, but marxism is socialism. Who they are? Socialist academics and the WW2 propaganda machine. Also the Nazis had the largest labor union to date, created massive welfare programs, forced companies owners to support their workers, and their primary economic policy was synchronization, not privatization.
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  192. Dam, it’s almost like that was addressed in the video…
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  193.  @limitlessapocalypse2702  and?
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  194. I would say Stalin did the same thing.
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  195. What’s the definition of socialism then?
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  196. Why did the Soviet Union jail socialists and trade unionists? When a socialist party takes power, you would do anything to maintain your own power, including supporting the socialist party.
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  197. Or maybe the left is becoming the party of the elite college educated thinks to their wealth and specialization are not tied to any country, while the right is the party of the working class trapped in a country people.
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  198. Body of work? He barely made anything! He didn’t even complete his second book.
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  199. How so?
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  200. ⁠ @xxxXOctaneXxxx justify fascism? Fascism was a form of trade unionism and entirely separate from national socialism. Like what fascist things are he trying to justify?
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  201. ⁠ @danielsandwhichpants1391 and you used arguments that are addressed in the video. Like Hitler nationalized more then he privatized, and the things that he privatized were done so in name only. Immediately killing your rivals socialists is so common amongst socialists that the nazis doing it fits then trend.
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  202.  @GMinus that’s what the Nazis believed, just replace class with race.
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  203. TIK has another video debunking that vary fact. There was only one capitalist who supported Hitler before it looked like he was about to win. Communists in Germany were completely distraught when they saw the bloody revolution and famines in the Soviet Union. They split into three camps, the social democrats, the peaceful revolutionaries, and the violent revolutionaries. Hitler was in the third camp until his attempts at a violent revolution failed, then he switched to the peaceful revolution camp. Additionally fascism was a brash of socialism, though Hitler wasn’t a fascist, he was a national socialist.
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  204. ⁠@ALFarrell-kv6ok 1. You’re watching a video covering the welfare programs created by Hitler… almost everything he implemented was also implemented by other contemporary socialist nations. 2. Did Hitler actually say that? Or are you telling me you know more about what he believes than he does? 3. What proof do you have for this claim? 4. So did other socialists, was the Soviet union not socialist? 5. So did other socialists, was the Soviet union not socialist? 6. So did other socialists, was the Soviet union not socialist? 7. The Soviet Union also banned other socialist movements, was the Soviet union not socialist? 8. So did other socialists, was the Soviet union not socialist? 9. The great patriotic war, was the Soviet union not socialist? 10. After Russian revolution, many socialists in Germany moved away from the violent revolution idea, and instead wanted a peaceful revolution, where the means of production would be gradually brought under state control. Guess what Hitler and Strasser disagreed on? It definitely wasn’t racism or nationalism. 11. Because the Soviet Union said the Nazis were right wing for propaganda purposes… 12. Source? Because I’m pretty sure the source disagrees with you. 13. If things were slightly different, fascist Italy could’ve gone to war with Germany. Hitler often praised bolshevism, and said that if it wasn’t secretly controlled by the Jews they would be allies. 14. The Soviet Union also banned other socialist movements, was the Soviet union not socialist? 15. Source… 16. Yeah, TIK has another video going over this exact topic. Most historians now admit that Hitler wasn’t financed into power in any meaningful way by capitalists. It was only after he got into power that capitalists tried to bribe him. Question for you. Did you watch the video?
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  205.  @bananabourbonaenima dam, that’s the goal of the Nazis, they just thought that you needed a permanent revolution, otherwise socialism would decay back to a previous state, and so a state was required for permanent enforcement of socialism.
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  206.  @Kriegserinnerungen  are you serious? Did you actually watch the video?
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  207. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  208. What are you talking about? Hitler hated the Aristocracy, who do you think stabbed Germany in the back in said theory?
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  209. How is he a nazi? How does someone who believes in free markets equal someone who wants to control markets?
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  210.  @randomuser3481  wasn’t their whole deal synchronization? The first step is to get all property under the control of the Germans, then they would voluntarily give it up.
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  211. How so?
    6
  212. So you’re didn’t watch the video. What in the world is right-wing, much less ultra right-wing?
    6
  213. So the Soviet Union didn’t have Trade Unions?
    6
  214. How so?
    6
  215. Market economy ran by the government? Are you serious?
    6
  216. Because they were their biggest political rivals? Hitler hated communists because he thought they were not true socialists.
    6
  217. What’s did he get wrong?
    6
  218.  @RandomVex  good thing TIK made a 20 minute video that covers the same things but in less detail, in the case people use this videos length as an excuse.
    6
  219.  @RandomVex  simple, Socialism’s core concept is sacrificing the rights of the individual for the benefit of the collective, turns our the right to vote is generally the first to go, and without that right there is vary little preventing it from becoming authoritarian.
    6
  220.  @suruxstrawde8322 how is that any different from what other socialists did to each other in other socialist countries? Hitler believed his socialism was the one true socialism, and that all the others were fakes.
    6
  221.  @rn6312 well how is it garbage? You have any arguments besides appeal to authority?
    6
  222. 15 minutes in a hour long video. Let’s see what he missed. Oh, TIK was saying what communist in Germany were saying.
    6
  223.  @hobbso8508 no, because feudalism didn’t call themselves socialist.
    6
  224.  @andyknowles772 unfortunately your narrative breaks down once you consider what systemically prosecuting someone is to the Nazis. It was a political move and not an ideological one, otherwise millions of socialists would’ve died in the concentration camps.
    6
  225.  @diegogbox  you should probably watch his other videos, they go into this in much more depth.
    6
  226.  @fahrenheigh what’s false narratives does it create?
    6
  227. Socialists kill other socialists all the time.
    6
  228.  @Schnoz42069  what do you think voting is? Voting doesn’t just spontaneously appear whenever it’s needed, no it becomes an institution with set rules and procedures. Voting is an institution of governing things. Additionally, how would the will of the vote be enforced?
    6
  229. No, he was a socialist.
    6
  230.  @kryoraptor7985  fascism is a distinct ideology form nazism and marxism that views the world through the lens of nationality. Nazism, marxism, and fascism are all distinct ideologies, but they are all forms of socialism.
    6
  231. ​​​​ @omarisawesome1996 care to provide examples? Like the main argument you use is so dumb, of course a socialist will see all other kinds of socialism as fake and bogus. Socialists say that about him in equal measure. He believed Nazism was traditional socialism and that all other forms of socialism were corrupted by the jews, he considered Marxism with its class analysis to be corruption of real socialism meant to divide the working race.
    6
  232. Private property was suspended, so I doubt that. It seems you just don’t know the sources.
    6
  233. ⁠ @charleymount582 I mean, they literally suspended private property rights in the reichstag fire decree in 1933. In the end these owners were in principle, middle managers for the Nazi party. They has a decent say in how their business where run, like any middle manager, but in the end they didn’t own the business or the profits of said business. The fact that you ignore this fact tells me you didn’t watch the video.
    6
  234. But if they were traditionalists, wouldn’t they have brought back the Kaiser?
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  235. When you realize that Strasser believed in race based socialism.
    6
  236. Dam, so when the state protects its own property, it must be private property!
    6
  237.  @benmorton8945 how did the capitalist own the profits if they only could spend them on what the state wanted?
    6
  238. How so?
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  239.  @auratheevinkian well if I’m so stupid, it should be easy to explain what’s wrong with the video?
    6
  240.  @timfrye3586 dam, so you are so afraid of having your beliefs challenged… It’s funny, most people who disagree with TIK don’t even watch his videos, and so are completely incapable of challenging him. So why is the title wrong? The recycling bin says it’s a recycling bin, and you come along and say it accurately a trash bin because recycling bins are fake. Dam you could prove your point by checking.
    6
  241. And the company owner had to set the hours and wages that the nazi party demanded… And what could the company owners actually do with their profits?
    6
  242.  @TheHandsomeman no, there is no evidence of a painting existing. And claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
    6
  243. Ha, ha, ha! What makes one a historian then?
    6
  244. Did you even watch the video?
    6
  245. How so?
    5
  246. So how did he get it wrong?
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  247.  @charliemoore2551 dam, it’s almost like they called themselves socialists and everyone believed them. Like learn basic history for a second.
    5
  248.  @IrishSwede  what is he getting wrong? I’ve yet to see a good argument.
    5
  249.  @markfrederikbaksrensen8574  no you would be a historian and a psychopath. Look, TIK used to be a socialist, it was only after reading the sources and considering their biases that he came to the conclusion that the Nazis were socialist, and now he is standing around saying, “hey the sources don’t say that, just look.”
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  250.  @aligindahouse7777 so did you watch the video?
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  251.  @1949-SSSR yeah, witch has nothing to do with capitalism.
    5
  252. Was the Roman Catholic Church a part of the government? And did the people doing this call themselves socialists? As I said in another comment, if the Catholic Church took over the country, suspended all private property rights, and required all businesses to be owned by loyal Catholic Priests, I would say they nationalized their economy.
    5
  253. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video.
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  254.  @TylerLee-g7f dam, google is so trustworthy, it spews unsubstantiated claim like no other.
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  255. Dam, you should tell that to the communists in Germany at the time. There is a reason TIK brought it up and didn’t clarify.
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  256. No.
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  257. Like how was Hitler not socialist?
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  258. Even for their time they were socialist.
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  259. How so?
    5
  260.  @WhiteWolf126  third position. Literally calls himself a socialist and does everything a socialist would do.
    5
  261. The Nazis created the biggest trade union ever, so I don’t know what your thinking about.
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  262. Capitalists who hated liberals?
    5
  263.  @1sb3rg34  how so?
    5
  264. Please try again. Most of your arguments come from an complete misunderstanding of what socialism is and what it can do. Like collective ownership is by its vary nature authoritarian.
    5
  265. So you didn’t watch the video, how can selling a few stocks to nazi party members counteract the fact they nationalized all industry?
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  266.  @andyknowles772  The DAF disagrees with you, it was the largest labor union in the world at the time with a membership of 32 million.
    5
  267.  @hobbso8508  the job of a historian is to look at the sources and question them. If your not questioning the authenticity of a source then your not a historian.
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  268.  @Scrubletman632 no. I said they ran TO academia in the west. There they spread their ideas and nobody refuted them because why would they?
    5
  269. How so?
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  270. What’s wrong?
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  271. And nether is it capitalism.
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  272. Defend private property? They suspended it in 1933!
    5
  273. ⁠ @eduard.1917 he was mostly inspired by marxism and various eugenicists. Hie entire ideology was combining the two most popular ideas in Germany at the time, social wellness through controlling trade, and social wellness through controlling bloodlines. protected private property after suspending it in 1933?
    5
  274.  @dwizzi1724  my problem is that socialism simultaneously gets rid of all the laws that protect us from abuse. Is it no wonder that every socialist regime fell to dictatorships.
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  275. These oligarchs became the government, thus the state controlled the means of production.
    5
  276.  @fiachramaccana280 so you didn’t actually watch any of his videos, you just got offended in the first 5 minutes and refused to listen to the arguments being presented. Yeah, you can’t disprove that the Nazis were socialists.
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  277. Private property was suspended in 1933, years before war. And did the “owners” actually own the profits?
    5
  278. What are you talking about?
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  279.  @alfgarcia965 dam, what a way to completely miss the point, Germanic branches of socialism was always more nationalistic. What Hitler was claiming was that ancient tribal societies practiced socialism, which is identical to what most other socialists of the time were saying. He literally says that his socialism was true ancient socialism, which was extremely tribalistic and raciest but egalitarian to the in group, and that Jews tried corrupting the idea to devide races through class conflict.
    5
  280.  @SkeeterHowitzer so you didn’t actually watch the video where those arguments are addressed?
    5
  281. Try again?
    5
  282.  @TlsMS93 get this georgism out of here.
    5
  283. How so?
    5
  284. Well it turns out 78 years of historical consensus are not supported by the sources.
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  285.  @randomuser3481  all of those are the refuted by their actual actions. For someone who loves private property why did he suspend it?
    5
  286.  @hobbso8508  so Nazi Germany gave all property to the ruling public organization.
    5
  287.  @hobbso8508  I mean if a church put you in change of a company but could remove you at any time, you would call that company church owned. But if a political party did the same it’s suddenly completely different.
    5
  288.  @hobbso8508  but the state also determined what your profits could be and how you could spend them, doesn’t seem like you own the profits.
    5
  289.  @hobbso8508  there’s also the fact that the Nazis were in the process of expropriating almost every sector of the economy.
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  290.  @hobbso8508  then what is socialism? Remember that this definition must also fit the Soviet Union.
    5
  291.  @hobbso8508  Republics work by having people represent their constituents, so representation is all that required. Can you show me proof that the Soviet Union didn’t represent the wishes of the people?
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  292. Uh, the Soviet Union aligns with conservative on social values, like learn basic history.
    5
  293. You should actually watch the video, all of those points are addressed. Please.
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  294. Dam, you must hate a third of all socialist than.
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  295. How did he encourage capitalism, he hated liberals.
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  296. Uh, when does he change the meaning of words after establishing what they mean?
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  297. So you don’t watch the video.
    5
  298. What makes something a capitalist system?
    5
  299.  @WolfinLondon2  Marx makes it quite clear that the Jews where capitalist.
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  300.  @SulliverVittles  you should watch the video then, it covers the Nazis economic policy in great detail. The Nazis party had such control over the economy that most business owners considered themselves mere managers for the Nazi party.
    5
  301.  @SulliverVittles  how would America be falling down even faster with free market capitalism? It seems to me that ninety percent of all problems facing the country right now stem from government regulation.
    5
  302. Dam, it’s almost like the contents of that video were addressed in this one…
    5
  303.  @teresacastro1263 dam, I didn’t know capitalists were not a group of people.
    5
  304. A corporate state that enforced price controls and centrally determined employment and wages?
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  305. They were socialists, they just believed that the collective consciousness couldn’t be awakened naturally and had to be artificially created. Thus their attempt to unite the collective around the concept of race.
    5
  306. Who do you think educates modern Nazis?
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  307.  @kabedonovan5555  what?
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  308. You should really watch the video.
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  309. So what’s your reasoning? And what’s your evidence, do Nazis ever make this claim about themselves?
    5
  310. Did you watch the video?
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  311.  @samikatto2851 so you don’t even watch the part where TIK says they weren’t Marxists, you know, the type of socialist that cared about workers?
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  312. Dam, it’s almost like he wanted a peaceful revolution instead of a violent one…
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  313. So you didn’t watch the video? By this definition the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist, which is absurd.
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  314.  @PeterFriedsam how so?
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  315. ⁠ @hp5864 un, it’s largely the modern historical conciseness that the Nazis was largely a grassroots organization and wasn’t tied to big capital until just before before they won the elections, far too late to have an impact. Explain the ideology of modern techno fascism. What is the ideology that techno fascists are advocating for. Also actually watch the videos, TIK makes it explicitly clear that Nazism isn’t Marxism.
    5
  316. So you didn’t actually watch the video?
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  317. ​ @surgeland9084 ask yourself, where are the millions of killed socialists? Also you sure you watched the video? He covers how the Nazis did not private the economy, in fact the primary sources for this claim were not even there and can be rejected for more contemporary sources.
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  318.  @surgeland9084  So what are your arguments against his sectional on privatization 2:10:43? Like the Nazis killing socialists doesn’t make them not socialist, otherwise that would disqualify every socialist state ever. It a fact that the after the night of the long knives, the vast majority of new members of the Nazi party were former socialists. Why would a group who just got done with purging their party of socialists then let more socialists in? Like they had the records, they knew these people used to be socialists. Also look at the beliefs of the socialists that were purged, many of them were fully onboard with the idea of racial socialism. So even if the Nazis weren’t socialist, their ideology clearly was.
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  319.  @jonathand3842 and you didn’t watch the video.
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  320. Did you watch the video?
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  321. ⁠ @hobbso8508 Marx didn’t actually believe that a revolution could be done democratically, he believed democracy in a capitalist society was so corrupt that it could never bring about socialism.
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  322.  @psychedelicprimate8974 nd who killed the mensheviks? Hitler did not exterminate the communists. In the first year of Nazi rule only 600 of these communists were killed, all the other communists who were arrested were reeducated in the workcamps. Just like anything else in 3rd grade, most of the important details about the Nazis ideology was left out.
    5
  323. The Nazis centralized the unions into a single national union, just like the Soviets.
    5
  324. How so?
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  325.  @hobbso8508 Nether does most unions in socialist states. Turns out when the state give you authority your no longer bound to the workers.
    5
  326. Well what’s wrong?
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  327.  @rohanthandi4903 what makes someone a fake historian?
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  328. Dam, so you are a worthless ideologue who doesn’t understand that the Nazis were socialists and that any proper right wing American should be fervently against the reds and their genoncidal tendencies.
    5
  329. Did you watch the video?
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  330. I didn’t agree with him at first, but he is right, Marxism a a cult.
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  331.  @andyknowles772  so have you actually watched the video?
    5
  332. Did you actually watch the video?
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  333.  @arnaudaerts1726  so you didn’t watch the video, TIK addressed that.
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  334.  @arnaudaerts1726  then you clearly didn’t grasp several fundamental aspects of what he was talking about
    5
  335.  @arnaudaerts1726  what are you talking about in your lest comment? That free markets are not contrary to Nazi beliefs?
    5
  336. True, just most forms of socialism had some form of antisemitism, mainly to prey upon the working class who already where antisemitic at the time.
    5
  337. Did you actually watch the video?
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  338. If killing socialist made you not one, wouldn’t Stalin also not be a socialist?
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  339.  @Kriegserinnerungen  so your ignoring the hundreds of sources because you have a problem with one?
    5
  340. How so?
    5
  341. Did you actually watch the video?
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  342. Lots of things, the Nazis didn’t have private property, didn’t have independent trade unions, didn’t have a private stock exchange, etc. China is ruled by a communist party, so it having socialist policies shouldn’t come at a surprise.
    5
  343.  @shakey3306 how exactly?
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  344. The Soviets killed socialists, so that isn’t a big of an argument as you think.
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  345. What? I’m pretty sure that’s one socialist policy that most socialists agree that Hitler did.
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  346. Dam, maybe you should read the quotes from communists at the time.
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  347. Who was he spying on exactly?
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  348. The thing is the Nazis considered the aryans to be the workers.
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  349. Did you watch the video?
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  350.  @coonhound_pharoah what if the government reduced itself to its most basic tasks, thus reducing the costs of taxation to a level that people would be willing to pay for if it was voluntary. Then you could make it voluntary, and if people want to not pay the government they could find a new competitor organization that does what the government does but better.
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  351.  @ast453000  socialists kill other socialists all the time, nothing new.
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  352. It is a justification of the concentration camps, the Nazis justification. TIK doesn’t believe what the Nazis believe, but as a historian you have to find out otherwise your missing a huge part of history, the motive.
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  353. Dam what an argument. It’s almost like he was regurgitating his old incorrect socialist beliefs.
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  354.  @hobbso8508 wasn’t asking you, so any proof?
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  355.  @LeeZaslofsky and your ignoring the numerous sources he used?
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  356.  @LeeZaslofsky  you should actually listen to his points, before the war everyone knew they were socialists, it was only during the war when propaganda was blazing that we decided they were not, mostly because we where allied with the Soviets who already created the easy to disseminate propaganda of them being anti-socialist. Most historians then followed the narrative built during the war dispute most of their first person accounts refuting it.
    5
  357. Did you actually watch the video?
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  358. I think there was one guy who hated privatization who tried to link what the Nazis did to privatization to discredit it.
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  359. Just like the Soviet Union?
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  360. Wow, socialism doesn’t allow for free unions.
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  361. My boy, the Nazis didn’t privatize things, nor did they call it such, it was a British newspaper that said they were privatizing by describing them nationalizing industries. This was addressed in the video, if you actually watched it.
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  362. So your ignoring the rest of the video showing how it’s not a misnomer?
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  363. You do know that the DAF had 32 million members, for a ideology that hated unions it’s odd that they had one of the biggest in history.
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  364. Yeah, and the Soviet union also killed socialists. So you can’t use that argument to prove or disprove wither the Nazis were socialist.
    5
  365. How is someone who hates socialism and equates Nazism so socialism a Nazi?
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  366. How so?
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  367.  @fahrenheigh what about the subject of this video is false?
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  368.  @GREGORYABUTLER  “pro capitalist” source? “Smashed the trade unions, outlawed strikes, and made socialist and communist parties illegal.” Like every other socialist who got power. “How could they be ‘socialists’ when they sent actual socialists to concentration camps” That’s pretty standard for socialists, putting their political rivals, who just so happen to be socialists, into camps and gulags. “Also the Nazis were EXTREMELY RACIST AND ANTISEMITIC” It’s like you never read Karl Marx. Get out of your fantasy, that’s not socialism, well it’s not the only form of socialism. You follow the one branch of socialism that survived to this day.
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  369.  @jajajjajjaajjaa why would anyone here support socialists of any kind, fuck musk.
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  370. Who said anything about the name?
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  371.  @hobbso8508 yeah, you should actually watch the video. Hitler was in a German military, the Bavarian military, so somehow he was spying on his own team?
    5
  372. How so?
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  373. What datapoint? Your very words say that there is no data. Like we should be able to see these wealthy businessmen withdrawing a large amount of money and the Nazis receiving a large amount of money, or at least some other major discrepancy.
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  374. That’s addressed in the first five minutes.
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  375.  @Schnoz42069  how exactly would that work? Because honestly it looks like a cult leaders paradise.
    5
  376. Uh, the historical definition of socialism is the social ownership of the means of the production, government ownership is a form of social ownership. The real kicker is he started socializing the economy the moment he took power.
    5
  377.  @skepticalextraterrestrial2971  but who? Because before then Nazis didn’t have any support amongst the industrials or aristocracy.
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  378.  @joekopsick1540 the Jews were the enemy, like how the capitalist is the enemy in marxism. They were never promised anything.
    5
  379. How so?
    5
  380. So you didn’t watch the video. Good to know.
    5
  381.  @stef65856 no, you just can’t use the fact that they banned strikes to prove they were not socialist.
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  382. So what exactly did he get wrong?
    5
  383. How could they have easily have been prevented?
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  384.  @Scrubletman632 it isn’t, witch is why he has a 20 minute version of this video…
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  385.  @saphy45-uu8rd so what happens when you are wrong?
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  386. TIK used to be a socialist, if anyone knows, it would’ve him.
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  387.  @leftistadvocate9718 simple, he ran out of money, so to get enough to get elected he lied to the rich industrialists to get their support for a time. Obviously he then immediately betrayed them by suspending private property and arresting the ones who didn’t submit to his rule. The mass privatization wasn’t called privatization then because he was pulling in all these industries directly into his organization. Imagine if the Catholic Church did the same thing, selling every part of the government that wasn’t catholic to priests. No one in their right mind would call that privatization. Executing your political rivals is standard in socialist states, same with suppressing trade unions. And through the entirety of the first year of Nazis rule only 600 socialists were killed.
    5
  388.  @hobbso8508  The law dictating how the government could appropriate private property was suspended, there was no private property.
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  389.  @rickglorie  TIK never claimed that Hitler was a Marxist, he claimed that he was a National Socialist, you know, Socialism for the German.
    5
  390. How so?
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  391. How so?
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  392. Need, as can be seen in The Vampire Economy and Hitler’s Beneficiaries.
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  393. How is TIK a fascist?
    5
  394. Marxism is based around class, socialism isn’t based around anything.
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  395.  @diegogbox  so it’s fine to chary pick ideas when it’s to prove that Hitler wasn’t a socialist, but wrong when it’s to prove that he was.
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  396. Did you watch the video?
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  397.  @HellIsInfinite  but it wasn’t just steel and iron, it was everything. Additionally their economic policy wasn’t one of nationalization, it was one of synchronization, a vary socialist idea in concept and in practice.
    5
  398. Odd how every socialist state uses a authoritarian war economy?
    5
  399. Did you watch the video?
    4
  400. Try again?
    4
  401. He is just a historian, doing what historians should do, looking at the sources and discovering their biases.
    4
  402. Like what?
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  403. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
    4
  404.  @trogdor1977 so ad hominem, nice.
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  405. Privately owns how? If a church had the same power over a company you would say that they are church owned, so why is this different?
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  406. So why nationalize the stamp collectors, Other countries didn’t do that?
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  407.  @Sal-l3f they had their own stamp collectors club that they pushed people into while punishing independent stamp collectors clubs… Like no other war economy did such a thing besides their fellow socialist ones.
    4
  408. How so?
    4
  409. Socialists always kill socialists, nothing new.
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  410. But no other classes.
    4
  411. ⁠ @mirandela777 uh, what are you talking about? Watch the video. There was a split is socialist parties after the Russian civil war, with the majority believing socialism didn’t need a violent revolution, seeing how bad the Russian civil war was and how it destroyed the country.
    4
  412.  @mirandela777 uh, the the argument is backed up by the fact that a substantial proportion of socialists at the time believed in it. Like the socialist party split into three after, and their main differences were about how to accomplish socialism now seeing the bloody Russian revolution what was caused by socialism. Like seriously, just watch the video. The whole thing about the Soviet Union being a failed attempt at socialism is barely relevant. You idiots get caught up in the smallest details when TIK makes shorter videos like this, and when he makes longer videos that address everything, you idiots don’t watch them.
    4
  413. What?
    4
  414. What propaganda?
    4
  415.  @walterbailey2950  wow, a reactionary movement that implemented every policy that they where seemingly reacting against!
    4
  416. I mean it’s the socialist modus operandi to obfuscate and distort language to fit their subjective views, so no surprise that the national socialists did just that.
    4
  417.  @guerillagardener2237 so government officials bought the company, and that’s somehow privatization?
    4
  418.  @guerillagardener2237 uh, you did watch the video, did you not? They didn’t privatize the companies, they sold some of the stocks the government had to Nazi party officials. So they sold the government owned businesses to the government.
    4
  419. TIK addresses that in the video.
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  420. The problem is that video i easily refuted by TIK’s other videos.
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  421. Did you watch the video?
    4
  422.  @owgdj Communism is socialism that divides the world based on class, Fascism is socialism that divides the world based on nation, and Nazism is socialism that divides the world based on race.
    4
  423. How so?
    4
  424.  @metacube9913  how is this cope?
    4
  425.  @metacube9913  what is factually wrong with it?
    4
  426. How so?
    4
  427.  @seandouglas5429  but remember that to be a party member you had to submit to higher ranking members. The Nazi party was an organization into itself.
    4
  428. Here’s some facts. The Nazi party was a top down hierarchical organization where your membership depended on how well you followed the leader. The Nazi party was the state. Understating both of these you will have to agree that the Nazi “privatizing” was in reality moving ownership of industries from one state organization to another.
    4
  429. This is a hilariously bad argument, the Nazis aim was the same aim as every other socialist in history, socialists just don’t like admitting they want class genocide.
    4
  430.  @WhiteWolf126  you said it yourself that the nazi party was the state, and we also know that the nazi party was a strict regimental organization that did not distinguish private from public within its party members. Putting these “privatized” industries into the hands of the Nazis was quite literally centralization. The Nazis didn’t have complete control over the government when they first took power, that’s what privatization was for, once he found parts of the government that didn’t support him he devolved them and gave the property to someone under his control.
    4
  431.  @vasconcelossentimento where did he privatize? To whom? Socialists kill other socialists all the time.
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  432. Steal your labor how?
    4
  433. How so?
    4
  434. Not really.
    4
  435.  @GhostSamaritan  ok, so what happens if two individuals within a collective disagree about how something should be used, how do you deal with that?
    4
  436. So any actual arguments?
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  437.  @chromaticstorm787 uh, Hitler believed in race socialism, and he believed the Jews corrupted it into class socialism. This is that your quote is saying. Hitler was a socialist, but he wasn’t a Marxist.
    4
  438.  @andyknowles772 nationalizing the trade unions?
    4
  439.  @bear3616 are you sure about that? How many socialist did he kill in Germany?
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  440.  @andyknowles772  when a labor union is nationalized it becomes a servant of the state, not the workers. Additionally if your striking against a socialist state your are a capitalist counter-revolutionary and so your voice in no longer recognized as a worker.
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  441.  @bear3616  I need numbers here, because we know what it looks like when Hitler doesn’t like a group, and that is millions die.
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  442.  @hobbso8508  socialism doesn’t believe in democracy because to them all rights are actually privileges, and if your not using your privileges to benefit the collective then they will be taken away.
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  443. Capitalists also funded communism, so I don’t know what to tell you.
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  444. So you don't watch the video?
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  445. Why?
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  446. Both of your quotes don’t support your argument, Himmler was obviously talking about the fact that they couldn’t establish a socialist economy until they won and had lebensraum. Hitler was talking about how capitalism will case the end of the world via the shrinking markets problem, and though a socialist economy Germany would survive.
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  447. Socialists always kill other socialists, nothing new.
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  448.  pantsmonsterv6 what about nationalism makes it right wing? Would do you think about nationalist left of Canada?
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  449. Also, why would Hitler establish excessive price controls, remove private property protections, and create the bureaucracy to centrally control the economy if he was a diehard liberal?
    4
  450. Because the command economy is what makes socialism socialism.
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  451.  @Scrubletman632 I mean, during the war, the US copied Soviet propaganda as a way to form a united public front. Then after the war a bunch of the leading historians, whom you can check their political views to see that they had serious Marxist leanings or sympathies, all started “but this wasn’t real socialism”ing. Like it happens over and over, historians constantly are saying, oh, while the Nazis did adopt or do X socialist policy, they were not socialist in any other way. Then another historian says, oh, while the Nazis did adopt or do Y socialist policy, they were not socialist in any other way. Repeat for every socialist policy.
    4
  452. So after they took power? What would you do if you were a capitalist in a country who just elected a socialist party?
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  453.  Nicholas Time  care to point out something particularly egregious?
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  454. Uh, Trotskyists and communists don’t want independent trade unions…
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  455. So what makes someone an actual qualified historian?
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  456. ⁠ @Mancheguache dam, it’s almost like he has that…
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  457.  @VolrinSeth so what definition of democracy are you using?
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  458. TIK goes into detail on all of these points in his other videos, the bonds thing in particular is talked about heavily in the BankWars series of his.
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  459.  @Elcollpohorrible in the Rickstang Fire decree they suspended private property rights, and without private property rights the government could take anything at any moment. With this the government had ultimate leverage over all business, effectively turning them into subsidiaries. Because if they ever refuse orders from the government, and boy did the government give them orders, their position as the “owner” would be taken from them and be given to someone more loyal. Basically the owners were middle managers in all but name.
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  460. How so?
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  461. Socialists kill other socialists all the time, nothing new.
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  462. How so?
    4
  463. How so?
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  464. Did you watch the video?
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  465.  @brianrockwood2018 what video in particular?
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  466. Did you actually watch the video?
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  467. Wow its like he already seized power by that point.
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  468.  @nicknolte8671 wow, so it looked like Hitler was about to win, so the capitalists hedged their bets. Like who would you support, the Marxist who says he’s going to take everything from you and is unwilling to negotiate, or the Nazi who says he most definitely won’t not take everything from from you unless you support him if you just pay him of course. Like you should actually watch the videos because you make arguments that are already addressed.
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  469. Care to explain?
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  470. Uh, you do know the history of fascism, right?
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  471. ​ @nickscurvy8635 so you didn't watch the video?
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  472. You need to rewatch the video then.
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  473. What is untrue about it?
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  474.  @nukethepentagon supported private property? How can you say this when he suspended it shortly after coming to power? There where three branches of socialism in Germany at the time, hardline Marxism who believed in a violent revolution to create the workers dictatorship, communists who believed in a peaceful revolution to create a workers dictatorship, and social democracy who wanted peaceful revolution with reforms. Hitler was originally in the hardline Marxist camp, but after his failed revolution he switch to the Communist camp. This is why he purged Strasser’s camp. While both Hitler and Strasser wanted the same thing, Strasser wanted a violent revolution and redistribution of wealth, which would’ve completely ruined Hitler’s successful peaceful revolution.
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  475. ​​ @Schnoz42069  uh you do know according to Wikipedia, "state capitalism" is about nationalizing industries? And privately owned by the state? You do know that the state is the public sector right?
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  476.  @Schnoz42069 but the government is the public sector, and by definition not private.
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  477.  @Schnoz42069 the government is the public sector, it by definition cannot own things privately.
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  478.  @panzermaus664  the Nazis had nothing against profit, that’s a Marxist concept. Just pay your fair share and work in the best interests of the German people. Remember that everything in Nazi Germany was first property of the Nazi party, then second property of the private individual.
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  479. How is he wrong?
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  480. How is he wrong?
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  481. The problem with that is nothing Hitler ever said supports that. In fact Hitlers words support the opposite, that the war and conquest was just the means to the end of socialism.
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  482. Did you actually watch the video?
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  483.  @FaustLimbusCompany  it’s kind of hard for price calculation to happen when the state sets the prices.
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  484.  @alfgarcia965 dam so according to you the Nazis were socialist. Like I have done a lot more research on this than you have. Hitler clearly states multiple times that his socialism is not Marxism, but instead draws its roots from older forms of socialism. Germanic socialism was all ways more nationalistic, hell the danish socialist party is largely responsible for the restrictions on immigration that they have. TIK’s original video on the topic was made to address Nazis, pointing out how their ideology was literally socialism. And then he went off and found several books made by modern neo-Nazis that say they are socialist. Like you could watch the videos, and learn from the enormous amounts of research TIK does on this topic. Or you could ignore them and languish in ignorance.
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  485.  @confusedarmchairphilosopher  so what happenes if you took Marx’s class analysis and replaced it with race analysis?
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  486. Your talking about marxism there. Every form of socialism call all other forms fake reactionary socialism, Nazism is no different.
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  487. How is that relevant?
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  488. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  489. How so? Care to quote any of the incorrect statements?
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  490.  @hobbso8508  so I can completely disregard your opinion on socialism now. Please don’t embarrass yourself like this again.
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  491.  @hobbso8508  the literal definition is the collective control over the means of production, if you can’t except that then you have a problem.
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  492.  @hobbso8508  Socialism has no requirement of democracy, in fact they can’t be democratic because then people could vote to be not socialist.
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  493.  @hobbso8508  additionally democratic socialism would be authoritarian, if the majority didn’t like a minority they could have them killed off.
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  494.  @dallowfusionblast  your make some points about the death numbers, but you disregard everything else TIK has said.
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  495.  @lambnathan97  what in the world are you on about? You claim that the video is poorly researched, and you back up that claim it’s anecdotal evidence. Please try again.
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  496. What is he getting wrong then?
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  497. ⁠ @ajax2181 corporatism was largely a socialist ideology. Utilism is a legal system, and would just be socialism if it was applied to economics. Proprietism is just the next generation of capitalism. Like I said half of what you told me was more detailed socialism.
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  498. You should probably watch the video.
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  499. How so?
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  500. What are you talking about?
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  501. What are you talking about?
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  502.  @vishalpatkar6819 well what is socialism then, why is it called ‘social’ism?
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  503.  @walterbailey2950  so what is socialism?
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  504. You have any source for your claim that Hitler didn’t have any cohesive economic ideology?
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  505. How so?
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  506. The mains counter argument is that the Nazis were race based socialists, not class based socialists, so their goal was for the abolishment of private property, (witch they did), and all political power was controlled by the working race. No socialist country had ever abolished wage labor.
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  507. ⁠ @fahrenheigh Hitler says his ideology is race based socialism, he even explicitly says that if it weren’t for the racism, Nazism would be indistinguishable from Marxism. What separated Strasser from Hitler was the same divide that other socialists had at the time, should we create an authoritarian government through a violent revolution, or should we create it through a peaceful revolution. Hitler used to be in the violent camp but his attempts failed and he decided to change gears, Strasser was still a part of the violent revolution camp and so would’ve tried to do that even after Hitler took power.
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  508.  @fahrenheigh big corporations where parts of the state under Nazis rulership, you probably should watch the video. Like tell me who controlled the cooperations? What decisions could the so called private owners make with their companies or profits? It was a huge thing amongst socialists after the Soviet Union had its violent revolution, did you want to do the same thing? Or did you want something different? Hitler had to kill of the violent revolutionary, because the violent revolutionary wanted to expand the peaceful revolution into a violent one, which would’ve removed him from power.
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  509.  @fahrenheigh so why couldn’t businessmen set prices, wages, fire or hire, or even control profits? Hell these so called private businessman had production quotas.
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  510. But isn’t that what all socialists are doing? Claiming that they have true socialism and that Hitler did not?
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  511. How so?
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  512. Can you show some of these “idiotic claims”?
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  513. Why are you using a source that TIK has thoroughly discredited?
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  514. Did you watch the latest video?
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  515.  @Chriscraft-ug3sz  well socialism isn’t workers owning the means of production.
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  516. ​ @jonathanguzman3044  And in 1933 the Nazis suspended all those laws, marking all property the states by default.
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  517. So where do fascists state this ideology?
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  518. ​ @samikatto2851  uh, there were a lot of socialists who did believe people were equal. There was a lot of effort into combining darwinism with socialism long before hitler. Hell one of the most popular socialist writers proposed voluntary eugenics as a way to remove sickness from society.
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  519.  @staffangunnarson2421 but how he took over Germany was, relatively.
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  520. Tell my you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  521. My boy they were racial socialists, they believed that all German were equal in their race and that the Jews were oppressing them.
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  522. What’s the difference? Who does a collective own something?
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  523.  @error200http can you answer my question? How does a collective own something?
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  524.  @error200http so is the state not the representative of the public?
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  525. ⁠​⁠ @error200http what about representing the interests of the majority (working race)?
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  526.  @error200http so your ideology is one obsessed with power dynamics? You should hate out current leftist elites then.
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  527. How?
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  528. Yeah that source you keep on bringing up really doesn’t address any of the arguments in the video, so I ask again, did you watch the video? Because how are firms independent when they literally are controlled by Nazis? It would be like saying the Catholic Church doesn’t own the country, they just have bishops controlling every business.
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  529. Well what is blatant fascism?
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  530.  @frankmiller721 so what is fascism?
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  531. ​ @frankmiller721  So how is fascism not a form of socialism by those definitions?
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  532.  @frankmiller721 I’m a libertarian, so I don’t lick boots. Now explain to be how they are opposites? Like nothing in the definitions you used preclude fascism from being socialism. Like reread them again and ask me in I’m being dishonest. I dare you.
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  533.  @surgeland9084 uh, you should actually watch the video, where he addresses that, he talks about how the Nazis killed thousands os socialists, while simultaneously admitting hundreds of thousands into their party. Like seriously, you are the one who can’t look at the whole picture.
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  534. Completely voluntary might I add. Much better then our current system.
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  535. What are you talking about?
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  536.  @Petr-Nikolov so you haven’t watched the video?
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  537.  @Petr-Nikolov he’s a libertarian, he hates socialism. So why would a fascist be trying to attach his ideology to something he hates?
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  538.  @jonathand3842 doubt.
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  539.  @hobbso8508  that’s odd, I got into an argument with another socialist about a similar topic and they convinced me that Marxism doesn’t believe democracy could create socialism. Marx actually believed that the revolution would happen because the free market is so bad that it will eventually implode on itself and bring about the revolution.
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  540. Because it’s in the name argument is easily dismissed, so TIK goes through the rest to support his claim.
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  541.  @memeoverlord-pz5ns so when evidence comes out later that disproves it…
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  542. So you didn’t actually watch the video then? Socialism is a broad umbrella term covering marxism, social democracy, social liberalism, fascism, and indeed nazism. To say nazism is socialism is correct, but to say socialism is nazism is not.
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  543.  @psychedelicprimate8974  turns out school oversimplifies topics most of the time.
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  544. You should watch the video. Hard to be private when your owned by the state.
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  545.  @StefanNemec  can you provide sources for the claim that it was financed by the capitalists? how can you tell if an industry is owned by the workers?
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  546. How so?
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  547.  @hobbso8508  I could use that same argument to say Europe wasn’t Christian.
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  548. It’s kind of funny because the antisemitic propaganda was then transform into communist propaganda just by getting rid of the Jewish iconography.
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  549. 1.) and the Soviets where monarchists? 2.) into the hands of the Nazi party, that was the government at the time. 3.) like the Soviets? 4.) like the Soviets? 6.) what do you mean leftist?
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  550.  @alexxx4434 not really, marxism added class conflict to socialism, while fascism was based on socialism directly and added strict nationalism, nazism took marxism and combined it with the second most powerful ideology in Germany at the time, eugenics, witch switched out class conflict for radical conflict.
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  551.  @alexxx4434  yes, their particular model was called corporatism, were each industry and its respective trade unions were nationalized under a government body to represent interests of that industry as a whole. Basically imagine a government ministry, but where the ministers were elected by the industry that ministry was regulating instead of being chosen by the head of government.
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  552.  @alexxx4434  my definition never included class, class struggle, or worker control, and state control plus democracy is another form of collective control. I use the historical definition of democracy, witch is basically when the government claims it’s right to rule was granted from the people, in the same way divine right works. It doesn’t actually matter if it really is the case or not, because these are just claims. Also the Nazis suspended private property in 1933, years before the war. So if you consider Nazis to be fascists, witch I don’t, how do your reconcile that.
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  553. ⁠​⁠ @alexxx4434 so what separates Fascism from just authoritarianism? What ideas does authoritarians need to make it Fascism? What are you talking about transferred public ownership into private ownership? Did you actually watch the video? Did you actually read my comment, Fascism claimed it’s authority to rule from the will of the people, thus making it a democracy. That’s the thing about democracies, you don’t need the actual will of the people, just the belief that you deserve to rule them because they “chose” you.
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  554. ⁠ @alexxx4434 democracy and voting are difficult things, you don’t need voting to be a democracy, and you don’t need democracy to have voting. Additionally there were only two rich businessmen who supported the Nazis before they looked like they would win, and after that it’s just corporations hedging their bets, on one side you have class based socialists, and on the other side you have race based socialists, obviously the capitalists were going to choose the least bad option for themselves, but that doesn’t make fascism or Nazism capitalism last attempt to maintain power. This is the equivalent to the nobility choosing between revolutionaries who want to behead them, or revolutionaries who want to take their land and titles. Also you would need proof that fascists actually served the interests of capitalists, which is hard because most evidence is policy that the socialists would’ve in acted if they took power.
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  555.  @alexxx4434 ​​⁠​⁠did you actually read the quote you shared, apparently it’s privatization when you transfer ownership of public goods into the hands of government organizations run by the ruling party. Like this was addressed in the video.
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  556.  @alexxx4434  private hands in the Nazi party, which was the government at the time? Private property was abolished by the reichstag fire decree in 1933. After that point all owners were owners in name only, who held the property on behalf of the Nazi party.
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  557. ⁠ @alexxx4434 but the Nazi party was the government. Profit motive? Did you actually watch the video?
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  558. How so?
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  559.  @brandonmorel2658 you do know that term state capitalism was originally created to describe countries under the Warsaw Pact, right?
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  560. No it isn’t.
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  561.  @TricaGamer  I mean Hitler was quite literally a socialist who enacted socialist policies for socialist reasons.
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  562.  @TricaGamer got to love how you think Fascism is a part of capitalism when it was literally directly descendant from socialism.
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  563.  @TricaGamer  so Mussolini wasn’t a socialist before splitting from it and forming the fascist movement?
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  564.  @ntokozosibanyoni1421  you haven’t shown any sources to back up your claim that the Nazis privatized their economy. I’m perfectly confident that you will never be able to, providing me right.
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  565. ​ @keneisner3445 he used his template, but had an entire different ideology based around racial socialism?
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  566. What is it then?
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  567. What are you talking about? He directly calls out the US as being a flawed market all the time.
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  568. Remember at that time nation really meant the people in it and not just the state, so any attempt to empower the nation was an attempt to empower the people.
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  569. Your actually completely wrong, Hitler has vary strong views on how the economy should be run, as seen in his unpublished second book, but if he actually shared them he would scare away all his capitalist supporters. And immediately after taking power he began to socialize the county.
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  570. That would also Marxism, as it excludes every class but the working class.
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  571. What about the petition form hundreds of other capitalists to prevent Hitler from taking power?
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  572. “Private ownership” band in the reichstag fire decree of 1933. “Racial discrimination at the heart of policy.” Unlike class discrimination at the heart of communist policy? “Massive debt spending.” Any examples of socialist states not also doing this? “Nationalistic rhetoric.” Uh you do know about the great patriotic war? Basically watch the video before you make such uneducated takes.
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  573. ​ @xxxXOctaneXxxx its almost like TIK did, and found most to actually agree with him or be baseless.
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  574.  @xxxXOctaneXxxx uh, my replies get deleted all the time, it’s just YouTube’s censorship.
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  575.  @xxxXOctaneXxxx TIK has read Marx, that’s why he has concluded that socialism is when the government owns everything and controls the economy through central planning.
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  576.  @arnaudaerts1726  I’m saying that post ww2 narrative was set by Marxists and we have been regurgitating their sayings since.
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  577. Well he explains that in a vary twisted sense of the word, yes it is. Democracy means peoples power, and if the government defines itself as serving the people then it can call itself a democracy.
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  578. Well they did. They could replace any leader they wished.
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  579.  @Playwright-Lorde  or the numerous company owners set the the camps. The Nazis punished dissidence, and all you had to do to remove someone you didn’t like from power is accuse them of dissidence. The Nazis economic policy was synchronization after all.
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  580. If he was in live with capitalism, why did he hate the liberals?
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  581. How so?
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  582.  @Chambi10614  yeah, remember that the Nazis believed that Jewish Capitalism/Bolshevism would lead to the end of civilization, so of course he would fight it.
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  583. Dam, so every socialist state to exist wasn’t socialist? Like the Soviet union nationalized all worker councils, revoked their right to protest and strike, and murdered more socialists than the Nazis did. Hell, your point on killing every socialist they could find is blatantly false, there were millions of socialists and we have no records of the Nazis killing that many maybe a few thousand at worst.
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  584.  @janno288 how so?
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  585.  @jacavanheesch4593  it’s a lie that they put mostly leftists into concentration camps, everyone was put into those camps, in fact the one rich industrialist who supported Hitler before he rose to power was put in one. The only reason the conservatives weren’t killed to the same degree was because Hitler didn’t think of them as a threat, and later many Nazis lamented that he didn’t kill them all. TIK is telling the experts, Sir, the sources don’t back up your claims. Like the Nazis didn’t privatize their industries, anyone claiming that hasn’t read the sources.
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  586.  @hobbso8508  they owned them in name only, they were middle managers for the Nazi party. Additionally they didn’t get the profits, the stock exchange was seized redirecting all publicly traded profits to the Nazi party.
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  587. Where does he say that?
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  588.  @roflol100  how can a command economy have the workers control it?
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  589. Did you actually watch the video?
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  590. How so?
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  591. Did you watch the video?
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  592. What’s the difference?
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  593.  @bobcoburn5238  that’s exactly that nationalization means, there was only one guy who called that Privatization, everyone else called it what it really was, Synchronization.
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  594.  @hobbso8508  yeah, everyone knew that was nationalization. That guy just tried to make it seam like Nazi party members were not members of the state.
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  595.  @KaldrantheDrago  that’s was nazism, different ideologies.
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  596. But this was relevant, he was targeting the fact that people say the Nazi’s privatized the economy by showing what their actual economic policy was like.
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  597. How so?
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  598.  @PascalSWE  What of the price commissars? What of granting workers partial control over their workplaces via the DAF? What of the suspension of private property? Are you telling me that those aren’t socialist policy? What it looks like to me is that Hitler lied to the industrialists and aristocracy to get into power, because both of those where a lot less comfortable with Hitlers socialist, antisemitic, and racist ideas. Once he took power he slowly ramped up the racism, antisemitism, and socialism. This is additionally confirmed by the fact that Hitler ran multiple times without the help of the industrialists and aristocracy, and it was only when he was basically out of money that he turned to them. And the Marxist thing. Nazism wasn’t Marxism, but they are both socialism. Hitler himself admits that if you took out the racism, Nazism would just be Marxism. Why Hitler hates Marxism is because he doesn’t believe in the class conflict, be believed in the race conflict, the class conflict, is his eyes, was a Jewish plot to corrupt socialism and would lead to the end of the world.
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  599.  @KaldrantheDrago  when did the Americans kill capitalists?
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  600. How is this ahistorical?
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  601.  @guerillagardener2237 uh, so the Soviet Union was capitalist?
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  602.  @jon82489  you know large corporations and socialists have mutually beneficial relationships, right?
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  603. So you didn’t watch any of his other videos?
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  604.  @hobbso8508 under that logic we can assume that socialists are all dictators and thiefs.
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  605.  @hobbso8508 and since one form of common ownership is state ownership…l
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  606.  @hobbso8508  and you don’t see how socialism is authoritarian?
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  607. Can you prove that Hitler didn’t fallow the collective will of the German people?
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  608. Didn't they describe at the beginning? They own buses and charge people to use them.
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  609. How so?
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  610.  @coonhound_pharoah but they can just chose to not pay and find someone else.
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  611.  @coonhound_pharoah both of our governments come together to a previously agreed upon mediator for this kind of thing. I mean my group just wants my money, but losing fifty bucks a month probably isn’t worth dying over.
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  612.  @coonhound_pharoah congratulations you have a war on your hands, and I’m betting that most people under the thumb of your crime syndicate will be willing to pay a lot more money for us to come in and while it out, enough to make the potential of death worth it.
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  613. What lies?
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  614. You have evidence for that?
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  615. Not really, did you even watch the video?
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  616.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk I got to love your ignorance here. If capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production then it can’t be owned by the state because the state is the public.
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  617.  @hobbso8508  can you provide contemporary sources that support the claim that the Nazis were privatizing the economy?
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  618. So what part of the Nazi party wasn’t socialist?
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  619.  @hobbso8508  wasn’t asking you.
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  620. Capitalism was a term made up by Marx, so technically your right. That’s because your a socialist your worldview is based off of class. What capitalists say is capitalism most of the time if free market liberalism.
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  621. Ok? What has Nazi book burnings have to do with this?
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  622. Did you actually watch the video? Cus there is a part where he addresses Nazis were race based socialists, not class based socialists. Putting the working race in charge of the means of production was their main goal, it didn’t matter what class they were.
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  623.  @LeeZaslofsky  so you didn’t actually watch the video. Thanks for confirming that.
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  624. Did you actually watch the video? Because he hates socialists, and he believes Hitler was a socialist.
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  625. What’s wrong with it that isn’t made worse by any other system?
    4
  626. “Cozy with the banks and industry” Uh, you should probably watch some of TIKs other videos on that topic.
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  627. How so?
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  628. How so?
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  629. What makes someone a capitalist?
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  630. Did you watch the video?
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  631.  @RandomVex  true. I’ve been watching a good bit of WhatIfAltHist and one thing he’s adamant about is how we are in for a era of religiously, wither it be socialism or a new from of Christianity who can tell.
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  632. So you didn’t watch the video…
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  633. Capitalism doesn’t exist. It was a term made up by Marx to categorize everything he didn’t like about society.
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  634. How is he wrong?
    4
  635. Then what is it? And how are Nazis different from literally any other socialist movement?
    4
  636.  @BogdanBogdanovichBogdanov My Brother in Christ! The Nazis where race based socialists. Think about that for a second, they don’t care about class. Everything that you say about class in only an issue for class based socialists, aka marxists. Marxism is the socialist ideology that cares about class and believes in class equality.
    4
  637.  @BogdanBogdanovichBogdanov  “Marxism” and “facts based” are two ideas that are mutually exclusive. Additionally Marx himself points out things like Utopian Socialism that don’t believe in class struggle, signifying that class struggle was added to the concept of socialism, and if class struggle can be added, then why can’t racial struggle?
    4
  638.  @jacobfrancis-burnett6837 so you continue to refuse to watch the video you are commenting under, that addresses all of that? Yeah I can’t help you. Like the video very deliberately points out how Against the Mainstream misrepresents its sources. Like Privatization to whom exactly? Nazi party members who are parts of the government?
    4
  639. Tell me you haven’t watched the video without telling me you haven’t watched the video.
    4
  640.  @ngltbh  yet every socialist movement was funded by capitalists.
    4
  641. So reactionary socialism?
    4
  642. Who wasn’t?
    4
  643.  @hansjalv  you should watch the video, it covers this. Only two individuals whom you could call big money financed the Nazis party before it looked like it had a good chance to win, and at that point it was just people hedging their bets.
    4
  644.  @hansjalv  but when there is no wining option you pick the lest bad option, most of them were bribing the socialists to let them continue operating in the country, but once the war started their properties were nationalized anyways.
    4
  645. Why not?
    4
  646. So Stalin was a conservative?
    4
  647.  @brandonmorel2658 because the vampire economy was written by a socialist, so of course he wouldn’t want to say nazism is socialism. All he does is say something the Nazis did that was socialist, but then say it wasn’t in fact socialist, dispute the Soviet Union doing the exact same things.
    4
  648.  @brandonmorel2658  your conflicting scholar and scientist.
    4
  649.  @brandonmorel2658 so have you actually watched his videos yet?
    4
  650. Dam, did you watch the video? Because he used those sources himself…
    4
  651. Less then five minutes in 4:36
    4
  652.  @sturm_wind so let me get this straight, the paper says they primarily sold public organizations to private organizations within the Nazi party, yet the only example was an organization what wasn’t within the Nazi party? Why are you trusting this source again?
    4
  653. It’s more like national socialism is socialism, but socialism isn’t national socialism.
    4
  654.  @fahrenheigh what is false about it?
    4
  655. How not?
    4
  656. Why did he hate the Jew?
    4
  657. What’s wrong? We know that academia is wrong about the Nazi privatization myth.
    4
  658.  Nicholas Time  how are they not?
    4
  659. The problem here dear sir, is the Nazi used a plained economy before wartime. Additionally can you prove that the Reichstag didn’t fallow the will of the people?
    4
  660.  @sumdumbbeats9879  clearly not, because he addressed everything you said.
    4
  661.  @mostbased but did see his 20 minute version of this video right? TIK explains himself vary well, it just so happens that socialization is a meaningless term. Ask five socialists and you will get six different contradicting definitions of socialization.
    4
  662.  @Schnoz42069  but voting is a government structure. The fact that you organized together to decide what should be done, and that there are no organizations above you, makes you the state.
    4
  663.  @Schnoz42069  the problem is your definition of socialism excludes every other form of socialism, if Marxist-Leninist socialism can be included as socialism, so can Nazism be considered socialism. Additionally I see Al kinds of problems with your system, who gets to vote? You say everyone who’s involved, but who decides that exactly? If it’s for the region, who actually tells people there is a conflict needing to be voted on? If you actually watched the video you will see that the Nazis did indeed practice social collectivism. They said the German race was the social, and private individuals couldn’t be trusted to allocate resources, so insisted the government would centrally plan the economy on the behalf of the workers (Germans). The reason strikes and workers rights to protest are always suspended is exactly as you said, if a minority disagrees they can take it up with the majority, and the majority would just say “fuck you, get back to work.” So you could fight back, but the moment you fight back you become a counter revolutionary fighting the will of the people.
    4
  664.  @Schnoz42069 Marxist-Lenient socialism doesn’t have social collectivism and it’s socialist.
    4
  665.  @Schnoz42069  ⁠let me guess, the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist? So your admitting that the Nazis were socialist in the same way the Soviet Union was socialist, witch is the entire point of this video. That Nazism was a socialist ideology, and it doesn’t matter if it actually achieved some arbitrary goal to qualify as socialism as long as the goal was socialism.
    4
  666.  @Schnoz42069  you do understand that Lenin started the central planning that Stalin later expanded, and it was him who nationalized everything into the government? Stalinism and Maoism were other forms of socialism that came after, and both of them advocated for the government controlling everything.
    4
  667. Can you provide actual evidence?
    4
  668. To him?
    4
  669. What group of strong men?
    4
  670.  @miketomlin6040  I would like to see a political scientist who actually believes the political spectrum/compass is a useful tool in describing political ideologies.
    4
  671. So just like every socialist ever?
    4
  672.  @Loqueteron  the made up definition that all socialist use? That the Soviet Union fell under?
    4
  673.  Caesar  but this was a common belief even before the war. What’s up with that?
    4
  674. How so? What facts has he taken out of context?
    4
  675. So one can’t preform cross analysis on history?
    4
  676. How so?
    4
  677. What’s wrong about it?
    4
  678. Did you actually watch the video?
    4
  679. So you didn’t watch the video…
    4
  680.  @rickglorie  Unfortunately a lot of that was discussed in other videos, but I did specifically this video so, Congratulations!
    4
  681.  @Imbalanxd  but the Nazis suspended private property protections in 1933. This is not comparable to what the US did.
    4
  682.  @slaterslater5944  wasn’t asking you.
    4
  683. Do you have a quote for the Nazis saying they wanted domination of all other races? Or was it that they believed that they were the working race?
    4
  684.  @rn6312 yet they haven’t. Every critic so far has been less educated then him.
    4
  685.  @rn6312  what are some of his criticisms of TIK’s work?
    4
  686. Witch video actually backs up its claims with sources?
    4
  687. I mean he did, democracy doesn’t need elections, just the claim of peoples power.
    4
  688. I’ve actually seen some socialist basically make that claim.
    4
  689. Why then?
    4
  690. Can you provide an example of one that wasn’t?
    4
  691. Socialism.
    4
  692. So what is he getting wrong then?
    4
  693. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist monarchists? Of course they are at odds with Marxists. They redefined socialism to themselves after the Nazis fell. How can you be capitalist when you suspend private property rights first thing?
    4
  694. The anti communist right who voted for the national socialist party?
    4
  695.  @milasto2 it’s really funny, because people brought up those sources and where shot down…
    4
  696.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk you do realize that people revolting against socialism are considered counter revolutionaries and are not socialist? There’s a reason all socialist countries ban protests because any protest is working against the workers revolution, not withstanding the fact that the protest is made up of workers.
    4
  697. You must already be marxist to even make the claim that the working class is being exploited. Capitalism doesn’t exist, it was a term made up by Marx to describe everything he didn’t like about society. It basically means bad society, and Marx compares it to his communist “good society”.
    4
  698.  @andyknowles772 so to you, as long as the state says that an organization is privately owned, it is, no matter how much control the state has in the organization.
    4
  699. Have you ever considered that Hitler was lying?
    4
  700.  @diegogbox  TIK went over both of these quotes in his 5 hour video. Hitler had his own definition of socialism, like most socialists.
    4
  701.  @TheHandsomeman Hitler didn’t have a painting of Ford, life size or not.
    4
  702. So when has any socialist state actually let unions be independent?
    4
  703. Uh, how?
    4
  704.  @Gvjrapiro  anyone who says a company being run by government officials is privatization doesn’t know that they are talking about.
    4
  705. What did he say that’s actually wrong?
    4
  706.  @KeigoUmemura if you understand any bit of communist ideology you would know they try to create dictatorships.
    4
  707. I disagree, during and after the night of long knives a large number is socialists joined the Nazi party.
    4
  708. So how is he wrong?
    4
  709.  @JuvianTV so basically he’s wrong because he disagrees with the WW2 propaganda and is trying to do the historians job of digging through the sources and considering their biases?
    4
  710.  @JuvianTV  I would love to hear of these sources that he smilingly ignores.
    4
  711. He doesn’t use the left right scale…
    4
  712.  @MrDan557  the book, Hitler’s Beneficiaries, disagrees with you. Additionally what corporate oligarchy? The ones he replaced with his own people whom he had absolute control over? Don’t seem like a corporate oligarchy to me.
    4
  713. This was years before the war…
    4
  714. For the second one… don’t your notice how the more the government gets involved with the economy the more concentrated capital becomes?
    4
  715. Socialism is not the democratization of the workplace.
    4
  716. What are you talking about?
    4
  717.  @davebeha5365 how so?
    3
  718.  @Jenseduca dam your really hung up on the materialism thingy.
    3
  719.  @BorkDoggo  I mean he did point it out, otherwise you would have never known, so he did do his job correctly. And what narrative is he pushing by changing that? He already believes that fascism is socialism.
    3
  720.  @BorkDoggo  so my argument clearly went over your head. TIK has made it abundantly clear that in his opinion, that fascism is a form of socialism, so why would he change it from fascism to socialism if they were the same thing?
    3
  721.  @BorkDoggo  TIK believes that Marxism, Fascism, and Nazism are all three distinct socialist ideologies. He explains this later in the video. TIK’s change was a simple correction, if the guy was talking about Nazis and called them Marxists he would do the same thing.
    3
  722. Any actual arguments?
    3
  723. Do you have any evidence for your clams that that was the Nazis motives, because to be it just seems like you are baselessly ascribing intents that they never actually expressed themselves like your some kind of time traveling mind reader.
    3
  724.  @brucebutler2746  There just is no evidence that can’t also be used to describe them as socialist, while you have to ignore tons of evidence to declare them not socialist.
    3
  725.  @brucebutler2746  I tend to find that most socialists don’t know what the definition of socialism is. Have you ever heard of Utopian Socialism?
    3
  726. As opposed to what?
    3
  727. Dam, TIK made a more recent video addressing those arguments.
    3
  728.  @galaxy9radio664 except that is exactly the opposite of what we see.
    3
  729.  @galaxy9radio664 what I see right now is the government doing everything it can to siphon wealth from the young to the old, democracy at work.
    3
  730.  @rustyshackleford735  there’s nothing about corporatism that makes it incompatible with socialism, and the Nazis definitely weren’t controlled by the economic elite.
    3
  731. What misinformation does it spread exactly?
    3
  732. ​ @hobbso8508 what's the definition of socialism that he ignored half of?
    3
  733. ​ @Harrier_DuBois considering that TIK is a historian...
    3
  734. ​ @hobbso8508 and reddit? One of the last leftist strongholds on the Internet? Why should anyone take them seriously?
    3
  735. When does socialism dislike the middle class?
    3
  736.  @haraldthorson9153 in the video.
    3
  737. What has he gotten wrong?
    3
  738.  @KansasHempMan I care not for your racism, socialist.
    3
  739. So you didn't watch the video?
    3
  740. Can you provide a definition that actually encompasses real world socialist states?
    3
  741.  @LeeZaslofsky now so?
    3
  742. Dam, you should watch TIK’s video on why Hitler had to start the war when he did.
    3
  743. What are you talking about? My point was the Soviet Union purged all other classes just like how the Nazis purged all other races. Nazism is race based socialism and Marxism is class based socialism. Your tirade about them being nostalgic bulks at the face of their actual ideology, how their only goal was to invade east to get resources so they could establish a socialist utopia for the German, how they never made an effort to reinstate the Kaiser, and how they implemented extensive social programs and centrally controlled the economy. None of this was return to tradition.
    3
  744.  @andreoliveira6371  what does Putin have to do with anything, he isn’t ruling the Soviet Union why bring him up?
    3
  745.  @andreoliveira6371  so did Putin or Hitler believe that the economy would be better run by central control instead of market forces?
    3
  746.  @andreoliveira6371  because free market people say the state shouldn’t be doing that.
    3
  747. ⁠ @andreoliveira6371  all socialism has ever done was create oligarchies, so saying capitalism is bad for doing the same thing is ridiculous.
    3
  748.  @andreoliveira6371  Socialists say all rights are allowed only if they benefit the collective. This is what their dream state will be like. Libertarians say all rights are unrevocable even if they harm the collective. This is what their dream state will be like. While a better balance of the two could potentially be found, just out of the two I know which one I want to live in.
    3
  749.  @hobbso8508  but life is exploitation of labor, if you don’t exploit yourself for your labor you won’t have food. Profits just show that more value was created then destroyed. If you farm more then you eat your making a profit.
    3
  750.  @hobbso8508  why is the capitalist taking your excess?
    3
  751.  @hobbso8508  then what free market libertarians from market socialists?
    3
  752.  @hobbso8508  the best libertarian argument I’ve heard is that there should be only three things that are illegal, bodily harm, theft of property, and fraud. A government that’s limited to those three things would almost incapacitate of tyranny while also preventing tyranny from corporations.
    3
  753.  @mirandela777 and it showcases what communists in Germany thought at the time.
    3
  754. I mean, fascists like being accurately represented, even by people who hate them.
    3
  755.  @J_GamerSP  what do you think about his take on the Nazi privatization myth?
    3
  756. Maybe you should watch the video… Like TIK makes it clear that Hitler wasn’t a communist, he was a socialist.
    3
  757. What are you talking about? His goal was to create a socialist state for the German.
    3
  758.  @healthmain  the Reichstag fire decree disagrees with you. 28 February 1933 the Nazis suspended private property. The only difference is that under Nazi rule stealing was still illegal, to anyone but the state that is.
    3
  759.  @dantobarbarian4842 so fascism, an ideology created by ex-socialists and not supported by capitalists until it was about to win, was capitalisms last ditch effort to stay in power?
    3
  760. How so?
    3
  761. Bolshevism is a form of socialism, and so was Nazism.
    3
  762.  @lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598  your problem is you have to discard vast amounts of evidence because the source could have been lying. You don’t throw out sources because they are biased or could be lying, that is deeply unhistorical. A historian’s job is to look at the sources and fugue out their biases, once they know the bias they have to figure out how it distorts what’s being said. TIK is really good at that.
    3
  763.  @lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598  but there is no evidence that they were lying, no private conversations where anything slips. There are private conversations where he downplays his socialism, but also downplays his racism and antisemitism. Additionally the only people painting the Nazis as not socialists are other socialists after that war, those same socialists who were praising the Nazis socialism before and during the war.
    3
  764.  @lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598  ​ try again. That’s what this video is about, going though the sources and showing how the Nazis implemented socialism. Additionally this is not about historical consensus. because you wouldn’t be much of a historian if all you did is fallow the consensus. TIK is challenging the post war narrative that the Nazis were in fact not socialists, the reason it hasn’t been widely challenged is 1, it’s a post war narrative, after a terrible war people want an explanation as to why it happened and will stick to the first one that they come across, and the first one that was widely distributed was the socialist narrative that Nazis weren’t socialist. 2 socialist historians have a vested interest in discontenting it, from after the war and to this day.
    3
  765. When has the workers ever owned the means of production in a socialist state.
    3
  766.  @chesthoIe  ​​⁠ and then in 1933 he suspended private property, so he lied to the elites to get their support for a bit before stripping them of their rights.
    3
  767. State capitalism was originally created to describe how the countries under the Warsaw pact operated, and has very little to do with capitalism.
    3
  768. Wouldn’t that make every socialist country ever capitalist?
    3
  769.  @ClitoridectomyGroyper ​​⁠​⁠”the Nazis privatized industries” after suspending private property is that actually relevant?
    3
  770.  @WhiteWolf126  read again, things were “privatized” into various Nazi organizations. The Nazis were the state and so a Nazi organization was a state organization.
    3
  771.  @WhiteWolf126  na, it’s taking it from one organization in the state to another organization that is more firmly in their control. It’s like packing the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court is a government organization, but it’s independent so you have to pack it to centralize it.
    3
  772. ⁠​⁠ @WhiteWolf126  ​​⁠ every owner of these “privatized” industries were Nazi party members. Provide examples if I’m wrong. Additionally the most aspects of running a business was outside private control, the state set prices, wages, employment, hours, and profits. This was to the point where Nazis abolished the concept of employers and employees and replaced it with leaders and followers.
    3
  773. ⁠ @WhiteWolf126  uh, most socialists kill off opposing factions of socialists. You can’t use Nazis killing socialists as an argument for why they weren’t socialist, additionally they purged the market liberals as well. They did not allow for private ownership unless it being Illegal to steal is private ownership. And finally they nationalized far more then they privatized and most industries only made a profit after the war.
    3
  774.  @WhiteWolf126  ye, but their ideology was based off of socialism. Marxists believe that workers are the contributing members of society and capitalists are parasites who only take from society. Nazis believe that aryans are the contributing members of society and Jews are parasites who only take from society.
    3
  775. Yet he wasn’t supported by the capitalists? And while he was against communism, he was a socialist.
    3
  776.  @marlkarx1757  I find that he’s proponents tend to have no idea of the terms they are using.
    3
  777.  @marlkarx1757  then enlighten me.
    3
  778. What’s wrong in particular?
    3
  779.  @nightrise45  how so?
    3
  780.  @nightrise45 that’s not the argument being made, try again after you watch the video.
    3
  781.  @Artixou  socialism is in the name, the belief that humans learn evil and all of societies ills can be cured by removing social corruption. Marxists call this social corruption capitalism while Nazis call the corruption bad blood.
    3
  782.  @johnd.2778  I can’t help but remember that it was the conservatives that planed the only assassination attempt on Hitler.
    3
  783.  @GhostSamaritan  wait, your discarding the biggest school of socialist thought because it doesn’t agree with you? It seems like your just running with the Not True Scotsmen instead of providing actual criticism.
    3
  784.  @chromaticstorm787 simple, WW1 showed socialists the world over that people were more loyal to their nation or race then their class, so they tried to make a form of socialism based off of that.
    3
  785.  @chromaticstorm787 but they did call themselves socialists, it was in the vary name. Also ask yourself what would a race based socialism actually look like? What would a socialist ideology that abandoned the hierarchical view of the world that comes with class based socialism and instead focused on racial conflicts and Darwinism?
    3
  786.  @chromaticstorm787 privatization? what Privatization? The selling a few stocks while retaining full control?
    3
  787.  @chromaticstorm787 so what happened to “Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State.”?
    3
  788.  @chromaticstorm787 what rejection of socialism?
    3
  789.  @chromaticstorm787 how exactly does he reject socialism?
    3
  790.  @chromaticstorm787 uh, so he’s saying he’s reclaiming it from the Jews and remaking true socialism? How does that equal him rejecting socialism?
    3
  791.  @chromaticstorm787 what ideas are they rejecting? They both believe that if the contributors to society realized their shared interests they would ban together and purge the parasites. They both abandon individual rights for the sake of the collective. They both believe property is dependent on its use. Also where are you getting this idea that Hitler didn’t want to infringe on private property? He obviously did infringe on private property, excessively.
    3
  792. How so?
    3
  793. So if he was a capitalist, how would he have cased the Holocaust?
    3
  794. How so?
    3
  795.  @dely_y  he probably talks about it in his 4 hour video.
    3
  796.  @dely_y  he isn’t, he’s pointing out that the sources don’t support what historians are saying. Anyone who says the Nazis privatized the economy haven’t read the sources.
    3
  797.  @dely_y  So what sources back up their claims?
    3
  798. Simply because the population would just pay someone else to not do that.
    3
  799. So did you watch the video?
    3
  800.  @tg4678 Dan, you’re not a Marxist, that’s for sure.
    3
  801. Did you actually watch the video?
    3
  802.  @hobbso8508  how so?
    3
  803.  @hobbso8508  socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and the free market is terrible (without computing that a centrally controlled economy is the only alternative). If you disagree then show me how socialism doesn’t follow those two core tenets.
    3
  804.  @hobbso8508  if you disagree, show me how socialism doesn’t follow those core tenets.
    3
  805. So you didn’t watch the video?
    3
  806.  @theWASPdefender  I wouldn’t call them fascists…
    3
  807.  @vancecookcobain so watch the 20 minute one?
    3
  808. Well how were they not socialist then?
    3
  809. Did you watch the video?
    3
  810. “Large industrialists backing the nazis.” Was this before or after it looked like they were going to win?
    3
  811.  @paulsame1124  20:00 covers this exact topic. Did you actually watch the video?
    3
  812.  @paulsame1124 how is it distorting the facts? Prior to coming to power the nazis were only supported by two industrialists, with the vast majority of their industrialist support coming when it already looked like they were winning.
    3
  813.  @hobbso8508  actually socialism is perfectly fine with extermination races, you just need to majority to vote on it.
    3
  814. That doesn’t explain why Hitler raved against liberalism.
    3
  815. Socialists kill socialists all the time, nothing new.
    3
  816. Yeah, e believed the communism was corrupted by the Jews and that he was recovering the true primitive communism.
    3
  817.  @hellothere2965 so far no arguments.
    3
  818.  @hellothere2965  well, both.
    3
  819.  @hellothere2965  and capitalists don’t believe feudalism is evil, they just want to destroy it and replace it with a better system. Yes, I would like to see more examples where you misunderstand TIK.
    3
  820.  @owgdj the problem with that is the Nazis created one of the biggest unions ever, the DAF, with over 32 million members.
    3
  821. How so.
    3
  822. What do you think of their economic policy of synchronization?
    3
  823.  @galaxy9radio664 uh, you do know that those institutions were being shut down before the government did anything. The government has an odd ability to join social movements that are already accomplishing their goals, make a few laws, and then take credit for everything. Like did labor unions not increase the wages of the workers?
    3
  824.  @galaxy9radio664 the problem is it doesn’t, the government is incapable of knowing the will of the people.
    3
  825. What’s is the bullshit?
    3
  826. My boy, he does understand, he is just capable of understanding that it is gibberish.
    3
  827.  @gladys2563  uh, did you watch the same videos I did? There are numerous sections that cover the economic situation of Nazi Germany.
    3
  828. Where does he claim that capitalists tend to conquer other nations? Are you sure that he wasn’t just trying to explain Marxist thought?
    3
  829. They were not Marxists, they where socialists.
    3
  830.  @chrisschultz8598 so exactly like all other socialists?
    3
  831. Isn’t that exactly what the Soviet Union did?
    3
  832. How so?
    3
  833. Then what is he supposed to say?
    3
  834.  @becklindholm8401  the video did in fact make that distinction, if you only watched it.
    3
  835.  @Rundstedt1  good analysis? My dear sir, you ignored all the good analysis.
    3
  836.  @dwizzi1724  your using the Marxist definition of socialism, the one that won out in the end. TIK righty states that socialism used to be much more diverse and that Fascism and Nazism were both subcategories of it. Additionally how does a whole control something? Who is defining what the whole is?
    3
  837.  @xtoll123  na, I could do that better.
    3
  838. When have socialists ever not hated other socialists.
    3
  839. 20:00
    3
  840. Try again?
    3
  841.  @MadeleineTakam_Info_on_Profile  if people don’t value it, then why are we forcing them to pay for it? If you see that it’s an issue then you should raise awareness and get other people to value it.
    3
  842.  @fiachramaccana280  I believe you didn’t watch them, because everything you said so fair has been addressed in the video. Like really, all you political scientists say Nazism is a nonsensical ideology, whose actions contradicted their own beliefs. But this just tells me that you don’t understand what the Nazis actually believed. And dude, am I libertarian, I hate socialism and I realized that everything evil about Nazism it took from socialism. “Oh, we should exterminate the parasitic segment of the population who doesn’t work.” “Oh, those parasites are colluding with each other to keep us down.” “Oh, other forms of socialism are actually inventions by the parasites to keep us down.”
    3
  843.  @fiachramaccana280 wow, you’re straight up making up shit, and I’m supposed to believe you actually watched the video? How has any of this have anything to do with what giovanni gentile wrote about? or what fascists in Italy believed? These arguments have no basis in reality, no evidence behind them, and so can be dismissed without evidence.
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  844.  @Schnoz42069 yeah, state capitalism… “State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes business and commercial (i.e., for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are nationalized as state-owned enterprises (including the processes of capital accumulation, centralized management and wage labor). The definition can also include the state dominance of corporatized government agencies (agencies organized using business-management practices) or of public companies (such as publicly listed corporations) in which the state has controlling shares.” Thanks for proving my point.
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  845.  @Schnoz42069 yeah, they weren’t communists, they were socialists, they socialized the means of production. All profits were socialized. What does socialized mean? For the Nazis it meant controlled by the national community, aka the state.
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  846.  @teresacastro1263 yeah? The left/right dichotomy is completely useless for describing reality.
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  847.  @Schnoz42069 is there any actual difference? By that definition the Soviet Union was privately owned.
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  848. Need I reminded you that the NSDAP was a organization with a strict hierarchy? To be in the upper echelons your had to be completely loyal to the Nazi party and fervently believe in its ideals.
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  849. What are you talking about?
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  850.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  It’s actually responsibly possible to achieve, just reduce the current government to its most basic functions, after that it should be possible to make taxation voluntary, because they would be low enough for the average person to feel comfortable paying. Like if everyone paid 500 dollars a year the government would have a budget of 165,950,000,000. That should be more then enough to defend the homeland and fund the legal system. After that organizations that do what the current government provides would pop up and offer higher quality services at lower costs. Because these organizations have to compete with the current government they automatically gain a lot of legitimacy, they can’t brake the laws of the original government without becoming big enough, and they can only become big enough if the people think they are a suitable replacement.
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  851.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  not really, you won’t pay someone who just lets the rich enter your house and take stuff, so your right defense agency would be there ready to shoot anyone who does. What are results exactly here? Because to the majority of people it’s not having your rights trampled on.
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  852. ​ @Mortablunt wow you should watch the video, and the rest in the series.
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  853. So you didn’t actually watch the video. Like socialists kill other socialists all the time.
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  854.  @cezarstefanseghjucan  what of the labor theory of value that’s inherently authoritarian?
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  855. How so?
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  856.  @SkeeterHowitzer  Your excuse is terrible, a door with women written on it was made to exclude men, but no where does this title exclude you. maybe you should watch the video. You know, the one that uses the source you brought up to show you the opposite conclusion.
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  857.  @MoonshineH so me as the farmer who spends his own labor is being coercive if I expect people to pay me for it, dispute the fact that there are dozens of farmers and that anyone can become a farmer? Also you do know how companies buying out their competitors directly creates more competition, it’s the law of supply and demand, if competitors are being bought up, it signals that there is a demand for such a good. More competitors would pop up just to be sold and they won’t sell themselves for less then it took to create them.
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  858.  @MoonshineH  what process results in a monopoly? Can you show any real world examples of this happening?
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  859.  @MoonshineH  can you provide examples? The ability to accumulate capital doesn’t equal eventual monopolization, not only is the economy net-positive, but the more wealth you have the less in touch with reality you are which makes it harder for you to accumulate capital.
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  860.  @MoonshineH there are a lot more forces behind the centralization of wealth then the monopolistic forces you describe, like how standard oil already lost a significant market share long before anti-monopoly laws were being brought up. The truth is profit attracts investment, investment creates competitors, and competitors reduce profit and market share. The only reason we are seeing such accumulation of wealth is because of larger socioeconomic systems.
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  861. Did you watch the video?
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  862.  @mcundy5680 so how would you disprove his claim?
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  863. ⁠ @mcundy5680 so you didn’t actually watch the video? Where all these arguments are addressed? The Nazis were race based socialists, not marxist class based socialists. They didn’t not promote private property, in fact they suspended it in 1933. Socialism isn’t just Marxism.
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  864. So what is socialism?
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  865. So you didn’t actually watch the video?
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  866.  @charleymount582 but what does that actually mean?
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  867. That’s blatantly false, his antisemitism was anticapitalism, he hated Marxists because be believed they were puppets to the Jewish capitalists, and his propaganda reflects this.
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  868.  @Azazin187 he problem is socialism isn’t democratization of the workplace, if it was it wouldn’t be called that. There are two kinds of socialists, those who believe socialism can be achieved naturally, and those who believe it’s has to be artificially created. The natural side believes that statelessness is possible, while the artificial side believes a state is needed to create and maintain socialism. Also can you provide any examples of TIK misrepresenting things because of a lack of context?
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  869.  @Azazin187 the problem here is your comparing two entirely different aspects and then saying they don’t match. Compare the ideology to the ideology, and the economy to the economy. Turns out the ideological roots of both ideologies are similar, Hitler believed in a lot of ideas that prevented him in believing in the free market like the shrinking markets theory. He actively sought to reduce the differences classes, to the point of forcing every company to create workers councils that could dictate what the employer had to do.
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  870.  @Azazin187  so your using a source that denies history? Even the sources you used sates that private owners didn’t actually control their companies, only choosing what and how they produced. The costs of materials and labor where sat by the sate, and the prices they could sell their good where also set by the sate. On top of that if a good was in high demand you had to go through extensive state bureaucracy to even attempt to buy it. Remember that nazism has nothing against the capitalist, their economic policy was synchronization, every aspect of society would be become socialized. Germans who weren’t properly socialized were sent to the camps and re-educated. Basically they didn’t care about classes as long as you were German and were a proper member of society.
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  871.  @Azazin187 socialism is only complex when you get caught up in all the obfuscation that socialists apply when talking about the ideology. Socialism is really simple and it uses a lot of tricks to make itself seem more complex then it really is.
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  872.  @Azazin187 he completely ignores thane fact that the Nazis suspended private property in 1933, what else I’m a supposed to assume but how he completely ignores the sources to fit his biased agenda.
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  873.  @ysbrand1114  can you provide sources for them privatizing anything?
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  874. A good way to view it is socialists believe humans can be socialized, most socialists say that it can be taught, but Nazis say it has to be evolved.
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  875. And the Soviet Union didn’t do the same?
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  876. ⁠ @lambnathan97  What’s your credentials to argue that it was a false premise? Like where are you getting this information from that historians are not in a loose consensus on the fact that the Nazis weren’t funded to power by capitalists? Because from an outside perspective like my own, nether of you provide evidence for your claims here.
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  877.  @lambnathan97  so can you point at a historian that disagrees with TIK? Like if it’s so easy then go ahead. So far you have been making unsubstantiated claims that also have no baring on the actual argument of the video. Like is why he likes to make 5 hour videos that you don’t watch, because if he doesn’t then you idiots will nitpick one irrelevant fact that he didn’t feel was worth showing the evidence for. Like how does the fact that historians disagree with him have anything to do with the arguments presented?
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  878.  @yaboi2639 how was he anti-socialist? Because I remember that Stalin also purged rival socialists from his party, so does that make him anti-socialist?
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  879.  @nicknolte8671 oh is not any of his sources on nazism not good enough for you?
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  880.  @nicknolte8671 so he goes directly to the historical sources? And they say the opposite of that all the scholars on fascism say? Well who do you think is wrong here?
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  881.  @nicknolte8671 when schoolers contradict themselves within a couple of sentences of making a statement, I I’m inclined to dismiss their subjective opinions.
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  882. Wow, it’s almost like Marxism and Nazism are different socialist ideologies. One based around class and another based around race.
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  883.  @lukelyon1781  most libertarians I’ve met are vary right leaning, and all of them agree that IP is idiotic.
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  884. What about utopian socialism, that existed before Marxism and clearly didn’t have the class based devisions.
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  885.  @kackbraten5390  I mean this is the shortened version, there’s a 4 hour version that goes into much more depth.
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  886.  @hobbso8508  Same as socialism. In fact Marxism is even more kleptocratic the the Nazis.
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  887.  @hobbso8508  so socialism has strong property laws?
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  888. How so?
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  889. Did you actually watch the video?
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  890. Did you watch the video?
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  891.  @jeepers4202  what?
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  892. How so?
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  893.  @gerardmonsen1267  did you watch the video?
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  894. What makes someone a real historian?
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  895. Uh, socialism amongst Germanic nations has always been more nationalistic. There is a reason Denmarks socialist party is against immigration. TIK has made a more recent video going more in-depth into Hitler’s disagreements with Gregor Strasser, the truth is Strasser also believed in German racial supremacy and all that.
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  896.  @Die-Sophie uh, you do understand that the national socialists were third positionists, if you are using a political spectrum.
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  897.  @bigbubbles55  but complete and total price controls without being at war is socialist policy.
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  898.  @bigbubbles55  One that every capitalist ever would tell you is awful. So why would capitalists create extensive price controls over the entirety of the economy while they weren’t at war?
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  899.  @bigbubbles55  but over everything? I can get one or too goods, but in Nazi Germany you name it, and it had price controls.
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  900.  @bigbubbles55  and I believe Fascism and Nazism were both sub ideologies of socialism because it doesn’t make sense for a radical reactionary movement to adopt every policy that they seminally were reacting against.
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  901.  @jb34ch1 we have, socialists don’t use those texts anymore because they have already tested them and they result in totalitarianism.
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  902. Why did he purge them exactly? Also doesn't this prove that socialism can be race based instead of class based?
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  903.  @fahrenheigh but, Strasser was a race based socialist, why else would he follow someone who’s ideology is explicitly race based socialism?
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  904. So where are the millions he killed?
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  905. Did you watch the video?
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  906.  @hans-joachimbierwirth4727  I fail to see how that’s idiotic, care to explain?
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  907.  @hans-joachimbierwirth4727  In my opinion if a nation has 3 of the fallowing I would consider them socialist. 1. ⁠They call themselves socialist. 2. ⁠They removed the government protections for private property. 3. ⁠They have a centrally planed economy. 4. ⁠Their core ideology is descended from socialism. TIK is wrong, but he is on the right track. Socialists are kind of backwards, they want to remove all the limits on the government that we made to protect us from abuse, basically returning us the the rule of absolute monarchs.
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  908.  @hans-joachimbierwirth4727  my labels may be arbitrary but can you tell me of a socialist country that doesn’t fit under my definition? Can you find a non-socialist country that does? If you can’t then my labels work and if you do then that helps me make my labels less arbitrary. Everything else you said is verifiably false, I mean you know about the weimar constitution right? Hitler had to suspend parts of it to seize property like he did, so what are you telling me that Germany had no limits on its government.
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  909.  @hans-joachimbierwirth4727  huh, I was saying do the governments call themselves socialist. Its so obvious you already know that. I don’t care if they were lying about their name or not, only that they did it. I would do the same with North Korea, do they have a constitution? Are there multiple political parties? Do they call themselves democratic? Do they have free elections? No. No. Yes. No. Congrats, not a democracy.
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  910. Dam, what nonsense.
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  911. Wow, it’s almost like you didn’t watch the video…
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  912.  @CoIntelPro23 yeah you should probably watch it before commenting about something that was addressed. The entire video is a further investigation, so they call themselves socialists? What socialist stuff did they actually do? Quite a lot in fact, largest trade union in the world at the time anyone?
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  913. Socialism doesn’t allow unions to strike, prove me wrong.
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  914. Most of that complexity is explained when you consider them socialists.
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  915. What makes something right wing?
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  916. What do you think about Utopian Socialism?
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  917.  @Chriscraft-ug3sz  Marx criticized other forms of socialist thought like the utopian socialism, and Bourgeois socialism. Only marxists believed that workers should own the means of production.
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  918.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme  what are you talking about? What economic crisis is being created by capitalism?
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  919.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme  and that’s capitalisms fault?
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  920.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme  the thing is when capitalism fails it actually learns from its mistakes, do you know there are free market solutions to economic collapses? Unfortunately the government makes it really hard to implement them.
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  921.  @sparky4405  uh, can you quote me on where that’s relevant?
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  922.  @hobbso8508  utopian socialism didn’t believe in the class struggle, and that tells me that socialism doesn’t need that to be socialism. It also makes sense that the Nazis took socialism and added the race struggle.
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  923.  @FreelancerND  the belief that things can only go forwards or backwards is backwards in of itself. Under that logic I believe that capitalism will transform into decentralized free markets. The first step is teaching large corporations how to be landlubbers.
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  924. So you didn't watch the video? And who's the American here?
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  925.  @hobbso8508 what would you do if you were a capitalist and a socialist was taking over your country?
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  926.  @hobbso8508 so was the Soviet Union also right wing?
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  927. We could and should go furthermore which is what this video does and still comes to the conclusion that the Nazis were socialists.
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  928. I mean one of the first steps to be a historian is to look at the sources and question them.
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  929. for a few months after the night of the long knives the majority of all new members of the Nazi party were previously marxists, so it arguable that the party became even more marxist then before the purge. Additionally the whole point of socialism is tearing down a previous society and rebuilding it, both culturally and economically.
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  930. You probably should watch TIKs other videos on the subject.
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  931. That’s would disqualify the Soviet Union as well.
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  932.  @claudermiller  how is he wrong?
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  933. Can you refute any points in the video?
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  934. Tell me you haven’t watched the video without telling you haven’t watched the video.
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  935. ⁠ @Dumpsteret1 yeah, about that. Why were Nazis put in charge of these companies then? The trick the Nazis used was they forced everyone to believe in the Nazi case, then once you believed in the Nazi cause you would do what they wanted without them forcing you to. Also profits privatized? What profits?
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  936. The British practice slavery?
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  937.  @Arnie58  how does it conflict with socialist ideals?
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  938.  @Arnie58  why does socialism need globalism? And natural socialism did practice egality for the German worker.
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  939. I don’t see the point your trying to make. Capitalism is murderous, compared to what? Capitalism is fascist, compared to what?
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  940. What does capitalism mean to you?
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  941.  @frankmiller721  Fascists call themselves socialists because they are socialists. Blatant fascism is a meaningless term.
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  942.  @surgeland9084 yet Hitler himself espoused wealth equality and redistribution? In private hands? Who in the Nazi party could be considered private?
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  943. When of any of what?
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  944.  @executivedirector7467  crony capitalism where the industrialists who actually supported Hitler before he came to power were removed in favor for political subordinates?
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  945. Besides the hierarchy thing, none of that sounds particularly non socialist. I mean what does far-right even mean in this case?
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  946. Does that video address the fact that the Nazis abolished private property rights?
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  947. While I do disagree with him on some points, he is really good at backing up his points with sources. Basically the things that made his battle documentaries great is the same thing that drive him to these opinions.
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  948. How so?
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  949. The problem with that is socialism also doesn’t make the distinction between political and economic.
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  950. @Vesta_the_Lesseryet you have no facts to back up your claim, like the DAF was one of the largest workers union in history. For someone who banned trade unions they sure had a big and influential trade union.
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  951.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk what makes something socially owned?
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  952. The fundamental difference is wither stealing is legal or not.
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  953. But both communists and Nazis are socialists.
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  954.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  do you even know what a historian is? TIK isn’t really talking about political theory, he is talking about what they considered themselves, what they did, and who they were inspired by. You know, History. He developed a telling of history based on the sources he read, considering the biases of those sources.
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  955. Socialists kill other socialists all the time, nothing new.
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  956.  @Happycoreftw  do you have any contemporary sources that describe what the Germans did as privatization? The Nazis did it way before any war, so it’s not comparable to what the US did. Nothing in socialism actually defines the group that need to control the means of production, just that it must be controlled by the collective. Marxist were the biggest threat in Hitlers eyes, so he focused on them, like every socialist regime. Many of his subordinates actually complained about how he didn’t kill of the conservative elements, especially when they were the only ones who actually plained an assassination attempt.
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  957.  @psychedelicprimate8974 antifa obviously isn’t a nazi organization, it’s closer to the Paris Commune than any other movement.
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  958. Socialists always kill socialists, nothing new.
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  959.  @StefanNemec  but Nazis Germany was a plained economy, there was no market. And it was for the workers, the German workers. The Nazis believed in the labor theory of value just like the socialists. Maybe you should watch the video before committing under it.
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  960.  @StefanNemec  TIK brings up numerous sources centering your claims. You have anything against those?
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  961. Dam, you should watch TIK’s video on why Hitler had to start the war when he did.
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  962. He has a 4 hour video that goes into much more depth, including starting with the definition of socialism.
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  963.  @gingaluvsweed  and what did he promote exactly?
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  964. How so?
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  965. So watch the 20 minute version… Gez.
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  966.  @surge1229  second thought never addressed any of the points made in this or the other video, so I have to disagree.
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  967. Never said they were.
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  968. How?
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  969.  @gmodrules123456789  and TIK is vary explicit that Nazis weren’t Marxist.
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  970.  @alexxx4434 the collective ownership of the factors of production, and central planning is efficient.
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  971.  @alexxx4434  not really, what nazism did was take the two most popular ideas amongst the working class, marxism and eugenics, and combined them together.
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  972.  @alexxx4434  what happens when you combine eugenics with marxism? Take a moment to actually consider what this means.
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  973.  @alexxx4434 eh, looks like YouTube doesn’t like my response, whatever.
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  974. What is a socialist reform?
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  975.  @othersidehistory336  The sources paint a clear picture of the Nazis being socialists, you have any arguments besides appeal to authority? I have educated myself on socialism, and it turns out that Nazism is just an offshoot of that, similar to Marxism. The most basic belief in socialism is that all of societies can be cured if humans are just socialized correctly, and the only thing holding us back from utopia is the corrupt society we live in.
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  976.  @othersidehistory336 fuck I see your comment, but it gets deleted by YouTube before I can comment. Ok here’s my response. The fact that the DAF had 32 million members kind of disproves you there, you don’t get that many members without it being mandated by the state. Additionally you have to take the Nazis at their word for the reichstag fire decree being use to target communists, something that you can’t do anywhere else.
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  977. Yeah, watch the video next time.
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  978.  @milutzuk actually in a free market system everyone would have a Rights Defense Agency on hire for like 10 bucks a month. If someone steps on your rights you call up your RDA and they go deal with it. If the aggressor has a RDA to protect him the two agencies would go to a predetermined mediator and settle the issue there.
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  979. What are you talking about? Like I can see that in Europe, but in America?
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  980. They didn’t hate society as they defined society to be those who contribute to it, and they believed only aryans contributed to society.
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  981. Every system tends towards monopolies, the free market is just the best at slowing it.
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  982.  @Zakdayak  The problem with the privatization thing is no one at the time actually describes it as privatization. It was quite obvious to everyone at the time that they were nationalizing the industries via some shifty tricks.
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  983. TIK is using Marxism as a term for class based socialism because he actually read and understands Marx.
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  984.  @NRWTx how is he wrong?
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  985. I mean he used to be a socialist and only stopped when he realized that Hitler was socialist, all the meanings/definitions were from when he was a socialist. Are you saying that the socialist definitions are wrong?
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  986. You probably should watch the video you are commenting under, he addresses the privatization myth, and the myth that capitalists maneuvered Hitler into power. I short, the source Wikipedia sights to describe the Nazis has privatizing things was a British magazine who wasn’t even there. And there were only two capitalists who could be described as supporters for the Nazis before they came to power, everything after January 1933 can be described as capitalists hedging their bets. Like if you were a capitalist and you knew a socialist government was going to take power, what would you pay them to keep your property.
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  987. Hitler’s thought his form of socialism was the true socialism and that all the others where secretly being controlled by the Jews (aka the capitalists, or liberals)
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  988. ​ @lolloblue9646 so did you watch the video?
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  989.  @jrton1366 socialism doesn’t mean democratization of the workplace. It’s socialist policy to force union membership.
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  990.  @peng1965a  what’s so funny brother?
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  991.  @arnaudaerts1726  your degree was worth as much as you spent to get it. Tell me how the Nazis weren’t socialist?
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  992.  @arnaudaerts1726  it fits in with all their other social policies.
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  993.  @arnaudaerts1726  everything you said here is verifiably false as seen in the sources of this video. Rewatch the video and see how he addresses each one of these points.
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  994.  @arnaudaerts1726  they force them to join the party and make them monopolies.
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  995.  @arnaudaerts1726  also the Nazis had free markets? Who told you that? That’s is, just, what?
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  996.  @arnaudaerts1726  i doubt you university because they don’t teach you. Like what was their economic policy? Did you know that socialist back then applauded their centrally planned economy? Did you know their hatred of Jews and liberals was their hatred for capitalism? Their hatred for communism was because they believed it was controlled by the Jews, sounds familiar to your claims that the Nazis where controlled by the capitalists.
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  997.  @arnaudaerts1726  I am a market liberal and that makes me the farthest thing away from socialism and all its sub-ideologies.
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  998.  @arnaudaerts1726  pretty poorly, but I know what happens when when you try to control it.
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  999. You have any actual arguments?
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  1000.  @hobbso8508  no, democracy requires the right to rule to come from the people, if the right to rule comes from any other source it isn’t democracy.
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  1001. How so? From what I heard they don’t particularly care for either system.
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  1002.  @Admiral-General_Aladeen  yep, at least in Fascism and Marxism you could covert to the in group, but nazism was race based and you can’t change your race.
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  1003.  @jacavanheesch4593  ​ claims Nazis weren’t socialist, simultaneously claims Soviets weren’t socialist. Don’t even know what liberal meant at the time, doesn’t realize that the conservatives were the only group who even attempted to assassinate Hitler. Completely disregards sources without providing evidence or reasoning. Don’t look like you know what you are talking about.
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  1004. What did the left do that he hated?
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  1005.  @picklejarmonsterfanboy9367 I pay a rights enforcement agency to protect me.
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  1006.  @sportstackeroctober2531  and the Soviet Union did?
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  1007.  @sportstackeroctober2531  so no socialist country was ever socialist? Just a quick question, how do you know if a country has social ownership?
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  1008.  @sportstackeroctober2531  that insinuates that socialism requires strong property laws.
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  1009.  @hobbso8508  there is nothing is socialism that actually requires democracy, just social control.
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  1010. Did you actually watch the video?
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  1011.  @hobbso8508 the source on German privatization also says that only a few Nazi party members actually proposed privatization, and they were generally ignored.
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  1012.  @hobbso8508 and the things the sold off where privatized in name only.
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  1013.  @danielsandwhichpants1391 someone already responded far better then I could, but the Nazis economic policy was not privatization, it was synchronisation. The owners of these privatized industries were all high ranking members of the Nazi party, so they were parts of the organization that controlled the country. Basically what the Nazis did is identical to the Catholic Church getting in power and then selling off public goods to the the bishops and cardinals.
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  1014.  @hobbso8508  so your telling me that defunding the police wouldn’t have had direct financial gains for the left? I mean someone had to replace the police and if the left had their way it would be social workers. The truth is the left push we see today was created by the dumb idea that everyone should go to college, because the truth is most people going there aren’t doing so to get skills to benefit society, but to get a random degree and check it off the box. These people that are going just to check off the box go for the easiest degrees they can find. But there is vary little demand for those degrees in the real world so these people are left high and dry so they started pushing to create more demand. Most of the left are bigots, but they have economic reasons to pretend not to be.
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  1015. What’s a mess about this video?
    3
  1016.  @mattheweagles5123  not an edit, but a condensed version that glosses over the main points.
    3
  1017. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist? And why didn’t capitalists count?
    3
  1018. What you say is socialism is in reality marxism. Socialism is much more broad, containing marxism, utopian socialism, bourgeoisie socialism, fascism, and nazism.
    3
  1019. What are you taking about?
    3
  1020.  @randomuser3481  I disagree with TIK for that reason, but there is no definition of socialism that includes the Soviet Union but also doesn’t include the Nazis.
    3
  1021.  @randomuser3481  I wouldn’t call it private ownership, maybe synchronized ownership.
    3
  1022.  @randomuser3481  he really didn’t, it’s more of the Germans should own the means of production, the same way Marxists believed that the workers should own the means of production, if the workers owns the company the the government wouldn’t mind as much and will take a bit more time to nationalize it. Same thing with the Nazis.
    3
  1023.  @randomuser3481  isn’t that exactly what I just said?
    3
  1024.  @WillyBraggTV  so a sub-ideology of socialism kills off other socialists? That’s exactly that TIK is saying.
    3
  1025.  @WillyBraggTV  yep but that was never the argument, you said they killed the communists so they couldn’t be socialist, and I gave you examples os socialists killing other socialists.
    3
  1026. Uh, he is just quoting from socialists at the time…
    3
  1027. Yes we get it socialists lie about their intentions, have any more arguments?
    3
  1028.  @Kriegserinnerungen  the problem is more accredited experts blatantly wrong, most of them are running off of ww2 and Cold War propaganda, like anyone who describes Nazis as left or right wing are lying to you.
    3
  1029. Socialism is the social ownership of the means of production, I fail to see how Nazism doesn’t qualify.
    3
  1030.  @jgmediting7770 considering how the video makes fun of Hitler and his ridiculous policies…
    3
  1031. Still not privatization.
    3
  1032.  @666mrdoctor  Didn’t watch the video, and has no argument.
    3
  1033. You should actually watch the video, he goes over that.
    3
  1034.  @PascalSWE  Seize the means of production from who? Other Germans? Nazism isn’t class based socialism, that would be Marxism, it was race based socialism. Privately owned production is completely inaccurate, sure employers could have profit, but that’s after the Nazis set the prices and set the wages. The workers liked the regime despite the reduction in liberty because their wages were significantly improved. Additionally under the DAF workers had a say in how a company was run via worker councils.
    3
  1035.  @closetglobe.IRGUN.NW0  you sure those weren’t aristocrats?
    3
  1036.  @closetglobe.IRGUN.NW0  you do know the aristocrats and the capitalists hated each other.
    3
  1037.  @closetglobe.IRGUN.NW0  you really don’t understand socialism, like one of their whole things is describing history as a line of progress from feudalism to capitalism to socialism. The aristocracy was the land owning class, while business owners where the capital owning class.
    3
  1038. "why would he ban socialist and communist parties when they tried to stop him from taking over" I believe you answered your own question there. Hitler was a racial socialist, he believed in socialism for the working race, not the working class. Just like the Soviet Union, the nazis nationalized private unions, and band new ones from forming.
    3
  1039. I think you should watch the video.
    3
  1040. Yet his ideology is based out of it
    3
  1041.  @SunsetSecondary why yes, as much as they did in any other socialist state.
    3
  1042.  @BILISenjans  when he talks about why he makes these types of videos, it’s exactly what I said. There’s a massive gap in our understanding of why the Nazis did what they did and nothing fits that better the realizing that they were socialists.
    3
  1043. Socialism believes rights are privileges that exist if they benefit the collective, this is the reason they can believe property rights are illegitimate, thus if the state is a workers state everything it’s doing is for the benefit of the workers, so if workers are fighting against it they obviously aren’t working for their own benefit and so would have their rights to fight against the state taken away. There’s a reason every socialist state bans private unions, strikes, and protests. The main mode of production was a planned economy that controlled every aspect of society.
    3
  1044. Or is it the other way around?
    3
  1045. How so?
    3
  1046.  @jon82489  did you watch the video?
    3
  1047.  @jon82489  Hitler didn’t bust the unions for the sake of the rich capitalists either. Where did you get that from?
    3
  1048.  @jon82489  and we just say Hitler had race based socialism instead of class based socialism. Much simpler that way.
    3
  1049.  @jon82489  “race based capitalism” now there is a oxymoron on multiple levels. I mean capitalism was a term invented by class based socialists to describe liberal economics.
    3
  1050. So did every socialist dictator ever.
    3
  1051. Define socialism.
    3
  1052. Socialism the the social control of the means of production. There is nothing internet in socialism that says the workers need to own the means of production, just as long as a social entity does.
    3
  1053.  @sweetmyth2537  how so?
    3
  1054. Hay if it’s not voluntary I, and everyone else under their thumb would gladly pay a little more then they take to remove them.
    3
  1055. Does Hitler ever say that’s his ideology?
    3
  1056.  @hobbso8508 What are actual socialist policies?
    3
  1057.  @hobbso8508 why only in a democracy?
    3
  1058.  @MarxinRios  so then what is he getting wrong?
    3
  1059. That’s seems very biased, of course Marxists would say the Nazis weren’t socialists.
    3
  1060. So you didn’t watch the video?
    3
  1061. I think the reason TIK dropped socialism was because he realized that antisemitism was inherent to the ideology. Though I’m not him so I can’t tell you for sure. I personally believe that Hitler was a Marxist before he became a Nazi and so he infused the aristocratic socialism with workers socialism.
    3
  1062. How so?
    3
  1063. I reported several posts for the hate speech that they were. If yours was one of them I’m not sorry.
    3
  1064.  @ast453000  like what? The privatization myth?
    3
  1065. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
    3
  1066. Did he hate leftists, or did he hate liberals?
    3
  1067. @Pawwel Mussial but the Nazis had this plained economy years before the war, so it’s not comparable.
    3
  1068.  @hobbso8508  so basically the only source that says it’s privatization was from a stanch anti-privatization advocate. No one, even the Nazis themselves called it privatization, only that guy.
    3
  1069. How so?
    3
  1070.  @ciprianvalentincipherctv9742 if he hated socialists in general, why call his party the national socialist party? All that would do is attract socialists to his party. Not its more nuanced then that, Strasser, the so called socialist of his party, only disagreed with Hitler on one thing, wither they should have a violent revolution to redistribute the wealth, or wither they should redistribute the wealth peacefully through government regulations.
    3
  1071. What are you talking about?
    3
  1072.  @TheAurelianProject when they win because the government let them…
    3
  1073. Evenly distributed ownership that they were in the process of completely getting rid of? 7:00
    3
  1074. Ok and?
    3
  1075. Did you actually watch the video?
    3
  1076.  @LeeZaslofsky  how is that any different from normal socialism in practice? Like banning other socialist parties is standard practice. If they were ideologically opposed to socialism they would’ve killed them off at an equal degree that they killed the Jews. Additionally you ever heard of bourgeois socialism? How they ended private property laws in 1933 and used this lack of laws to seize businesses, banks and any other organization that didn’t obey their will? Did you hear of the nationalization of the stock exchange, revoking the control shareholders had.
    3
  1077.  @LeeZaslofsky  you should really watch TIC’s video on Hitler’s socialism. He shows off documents on how Hitler was elected as a leader in communist Bavaria and the photo of him attending the funeral of a major socialist leader, all before he joined the army as a anti-socialist agent. Hitler then deliberately distanced himself from the failed revolution and lied across his books.
    3
  1078.  @LeeZaslofsky  you could easily watch the 20 minute version, and if you have any criticisms, come back to this one?
    3
  1079.  @LeeZaslofsky  wow, it’s like TIK uses all of those books as references in this video. Color me shocked! TIK is literally more well read then you, he studies WW2 history and Nazi ideology for a living, and he backs up every one of his claims with a source from the hundreds of books he read on the topic. He even has videos where he mocks the funniest conspiracy theory nonsense books you can buy. Look if your going to make an counterargument, at least listen to the argument first.
    3
  1080.  @LeeZaslofsky  what are you talking about? None of that is relevant. You claim that Hitler called the movement socialist to attract the working class, yet did that actually work? Wouldn’t calling the movement socialist actually scare away his biggest supporters according to you, the rich capitalists? The rest of your pointless comments is trying to argue a point that we weren’t going to make, so you just wasted a bunch of time. You sure love wasting time on this video that your not going to watch!
    3
  1081. I’m pretty sure he went over this in the video.
    3
  1082.  @Schnoz42069 you could provide a better argument then “oh the Soviet Union wasn’t actually socialist”.
    3
  1083. Social Darwinism is anything that says humans are subject to Darwinism, including Darwinism of collectives. This is what Hitler believed, that Germans were more evolved, and so more capable of being workers.
    3
  1084.  @bakters well I paid a group of people to protect my rights and sold my claim to the restitution to another group.
    3
  1085. How so? What evidence do you have?
    3
  1086. How is he being stupid?
    3
  1087.  @AWESOMERACECAR2013  half of all the likes here are from me.
    3
  1088. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist?
    3
  1089. What is he getting wrong?
    3
  1090. These kinds of comments are hilarious, TIK made a 4 hour long video and you guys say that it’s gishgallop, so he made this video, and now you guys cry that he is cherry-picking.
    3
  1091. I find that most socialists just use whatever made up definition they like, so try again.
    3
  1092.  @shakey3306 what claim did I make that I didn’t back up? Because you could, I don’t know, watch the video you’re commenting under that backs it up with evidence.
    3
  1093. The Nazis were socialists, just not marxist ones.
    3
  1094.  @BogdanBogdanovichBogdanov  so why was Marxism scientifically disproven on every level, every prediction it made turned out to be false. The Nazis did a similar examination for the world, but instead of using the lens of class, they used the lens of race.
    3
  1095.  @BogdanBogdanovichBogdanov  the Aryan myth was a widely popular scientific theory at the time, to the point where large parts of Africa still believe it. It’s sudo-science the same way our old view on how the dinosaurs looked is sudo-science. Now about marxism, what predictions did it make that came true?
    3
  1096.  @BogdanBogdanovichBogdanov  I love your insistence that Marxism was scientific, it was not. Marx started with the end point he wanted, a socialist revolution lead by the workers, and then worked backwards. He created a biased lens that he then used to look at all of history though, anything that didn’t fit this lens was ignored. Look at his views on religion. Marx’s understanding of feudalism was archaic at best, most of the problems he sighted to capitalism were products of feudalism.
    3
  1097. You do know that socialist and capitalists have a sympathetic relationship?
    3
  1098. @Van Brighouse I mean Corporate was originally a term for syndicalism so eh.
    3
  1099. What are you talking about?
    3
  1100. Nazism is latterly the merger of socialism and eugenics, take anything about socialism and switch class with race and you will have Nazism.
    3
  1101. Then you clearly didn’t grasp what he was talking about, the name didn’t really matter, it was the fact that every aspect of society was synchronized under Nazi rule. Every part of society was controlled by the Nazi party, by the government at the time.
    3
  1102. So the Soviet Union wasn't socialist?
    3
  1103.  @spudrph and who owned Ford and Kurpp?
    3
  1104. How so? They are seizing them for the working race.
    3
  1105. ​ @hobbso8508 they did, they seized it for the working race.
    3
  1106. ​ @hobbso8508 or someone representing the interests of the workers. See the Soviet Union.
    3
  1107. ⁠ @hobbso8508  and you can’t represent the people if you don’t ask what their interests are. Oh wait a second. The US doesn’t even do that! Does that mean we are not a democracy?
    3
  1108. If anyone understands Marxism it is a former socialist.
    3
  1109.  @ПавелКольцов-г9с  I was talking about TIK.
    3
  1110.  @brandonmorel2658  scientific definition of socialism? What in the world are you talking about?
    3
  1111.  @brandonmorel2658  considering that most of them are working off of ww2 propaganda, I doubt their credibility.
    3
  1112.  @brandonmorel2658  considering that have not been doing their duty as historians when it comes to the Nazis, I find it vary believable.
    3
  1113.  @hobbso8508  the communist manifesto that existed before what you view as democracy existed, and yet your sitting here saying it’s advocating for that kind of democracy?
    3
  1114. That’s why socialism is so stupid, after hundreds of years we finally created laws that protect us from being abused by the government, and what’s socialisms first idea? Take away all those protections because we believe in a objective theory of value.
    3
  1115.  @265005  not really, free trade existed long before governments had the power to control them. There was a reason axial age religions popped up, global trade and money fundamentally changed society. If you got rid of the government today people would just fall back on axial age traditions.
    3
  1116.  @meocean5499  how is it communism? Also it was vary much an axial ideal, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet neighbor’s house. Thou shalt not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor
    3
  1117. How so?
    3
  1118. What are you talking about?
    3
  1119. Try again? How does capitalism exploit people? Didn’t socialist countries consumed every other aspect of their societies for short term material gain as well?
    3
  1120. So political scientists who have not studied the history of his ideology?
    3
  1121. Considering that liberalism was established before socialism really was a thing, I doubt that.
    3
  1122. Modern socialism?😂
    3
  1123.  @Communism_Inc._official one can be anti communist and still a socialist.
    3
  1124. Did you actually watch the video?
    3
  1125.  @V555Vendetta  SO what’s wrong?
    3
  1126. Doubt.
    3
  1127. You should probably watch the video.
    3
  1128.  @Schnoz42069 in order for one to collectively control something you have to have a state, only states can collectively control things.
    3
  1129.  @Schnoz42069  then how, pray tell me, does a collective decide what to do with the means of production?
    3
  1130. So how was he wrong?
    3
  1131. How so?
    3
  1132. But he was, he was elected into a commanding role by his fellow soldiers in the bavarian soviet army.
    3
  1133.  @miketomlin6040 you don’t need to write papers or books to be a historian. So far all you can say is an appeal to authority, no actual arguments.
    3
  1134.  @miketomlin6040  I mean his economic policies were clearly socialist, as described by socialists of the time.
    3
  1135. Never said he didn’t.
    3
  1136.  @andyknowles772 the unions were nationalized into a single national union that was controlled by the state for the state, just like in the Soviet Union. The means of production where socialized into the hands of the German people, the working class to the Nazis. They believed communism was a ideology built to divide the German people by class, thus making them easier to control, just like how Marxism believed that capitalism was trying to divide the working class, thus making them easier to control. Marxists believe that the means of production should be in the private hands of the worker, with the rest of the community (aka the state) having the final say in what he can do with it. Nazis believe that the means of production should be in the private hands of the German, with the rest of the community (aka the state) having the final say in what he can do with it.
    3
  1137.  @brandonmorel2658  wow a revolutionary government calls its rivals reactionaries. Who could’ve guessed? Also you seemingly can’t understand that they didn’t care about the working class because they believed the working class ruling class divide was a Jewish plot to divide the working people known as the Germans. Hitler basically ripped off Marx but just switched out class warfare with race warfare. So have you actually watched the video yet?
    3
  1138.  @Lansone31 considering you are commenting under a video you haven’t watched…
    3
  1139. The problem is they aren’t private individuals, they are men of the Nazi party, the state of the time.
    3
  1140. this video is supposed to be a summary of the five hour one, defining socialism took up ten minutes there. So defining socialism here without bringing up all the sources would simply be ignored.
    3
  1141. So where do they say they are anti-socialist?
    3
  1142.  @StephenKershaw1 so you didn’t watch the video… Like what exactly? You make these claims, but history shows they didn’t exist. The Nazis are anti-Marxist, they claimed that it wasn’t real socialism and that they were real socialists. And just like any other socialists, they were vehemently against fake socialists.
    3
  1143. How so?
    3
  1144. I love how your ignoring the main point where TIK states that the Nazis weren’t Marxists, but they were socialists. Your claim about how socialism can’t be nationalistic is completely false, most socialist movements were ether nationalistic or imperialistic. Hitler’s national socialism was not fascism.
    3
  1145.  @PantheraKitty  every socialist helps the elites, they have a symbiotic relationship.
    3
  1146.  @PantheraKitty  so the nazi are socialist, because all the elites are were nazis.
    3
  1147. True, though socialism doesn’t necessarily need to be about class, just see utopian socialism. National socialism probably had its roots dating back pretty far but it was Hitler who combined it with ideas from Marxism to create the version we all know and hate. Fascism had a different origin, though there are better people to talk about that.
    3
  1148.  @saricubra2867  so what about utopian socialism?
    3
  1149.  @saricubra2867  so a socialist ideology that existed before Marxism and wasn’t about class. You can’t except that because doesn’t fit your Marxist definition so you can’t say it was socialism.
    3
  1150.  @saricubra2867  can you search it up, Utopian Socialism. Come back to me once you have.
    3
  1151.  @slaterslater5944  odd, for some reason I’m not getting the notifications. Not that I care about continuing this conversation.
    3
  1152. ​ @charleymount582 so what precisely in utter nonsense?
    3
  1153.  @charleymount582 dam, the sold off some of the shares, but maintained complete control over the business.
    3
  1154.  @charleymount582 so could these people actually use the profits as they saw fit, or could they only use them in ways the benefited the state?
    3
  1155.  @hobbso8508  and the duty of a historian is to look at the sources and question them. Questioning the sources quickly leads to TIK’s conclusions.
    3
  1156.  @hobbso8508  it’s not ignoring sources, it’s looking at them critically. TIK talks about this extensively in another video, you never ignore sources, but you always question them.
    3
  1157.  @hobbso8508  so what did he get wrong then?
    3
  1158. Most socialists I’ve met are also that.
    3
  1159. I think you missed out on a huge fact, they privatized public organizations into the hinds of Nazi party members, now remember that the Nazi party was a strict hierarchical organization where you had to believe in the same ideals and obey higher standing members, and this organization was the acting government at the time. So basically they took government assets that weren’t under their direct control and put them into their direct hierarchy.
    3
  1160.  @3brenm it’s fairly simple, most marxist parties were closer to Moscow then they were to Berlin.
    3
  1161. After the Bavarian Soviet fell.
    3
  1162. Nazism wasn’t Marxism though, just socialism.
    3
  1163. Did you watch the video?
    3
  1164.  @jarrodf_  brah did you even watch the video?
    3
  1165. Your making up a lot of stuff out of thin air. Try again.
    3
  1166. Then can you provide some of the evidence, and it can’t have been refuted by this video.
    3
  1167.  @heinrichpreussen  I find that your the ignorant one here, the Nazis made it legal for the state to steal, but not anyone else, and apparently that’s enough for you to say they still had private property.
    3
  1168. Have anything else to add? Otherwise we can ignore your statement.
    3
  1169. So we’re taking him at his word now?
    3
  1170. How so?
    3
  1171.  @frenzalrhomb6919  So no arguments? did you actually watch the video?
    3
  1172.  @rickglorie  TIC addressed this in the video, Hitler was a national socialist, socialism for the German.
    3
  1173. This video was particularly made to counter arguments found in that video.
    3
  1174.  @billmitchell2080 this video presents the evidence held within hundreds of different sources, and then showcases the contradictions that they have she trying to explain the economy of the third reich. Quite simply, the Nazis created a totalitarian state, where private enterprise and ownership existed in name only. Socialist states are notorious for their use of forced labor, or were the gulags not labor camps?
    3
  1175. How so?
    3
  1176. So what did he get wrong?
    3
  1177.  @hobbso8508  wasn’t asking you.
    3
  1178.  @hobbso8508  purely out of the fact that stealing was still illegal.
    3
  1179.  @hobbso8508  I’m actually interested, how much did they go for?
    3
  1180.  @kapitanpufferfish5164 no, democracies claim authority to rule because they were ordained by the people, it’s just like a king claiming authority to rule because they were ordained by god. Both things are basically sociological mumbo jumbo, but they are the core myths on which the country is built upon.
    3
  1181. Can you point out the Soviet Unions woke gender programs?
    3
  1182. When has socialism ever needed worker representation? Do we now say the Soviet Union was not socialist?
    3
  1183.  @RedFlagSaid so every socialist state to have ever exist was actually capitalist? What a way to make an argument that Nazis Germany was a socialist state.
    3
  1184. Can you show some of the contradictions?
    3
  1185.  @evenbet9603  Socialism demands the removal of all restrictions on the power of the collective, so by nature it is authoritarian. So yes socialism can be democratic, but they won’t stay democracies for long, when they are eventually voted out of office they will have to centralize and wage war against the counter revolution.
    3
  1186.  @rickglorie  ending private property in times of peace is socialist enough for me to consider them that.
    3
  1187. How so exactly?
    3
  1188.  @leftistadvocate9718 did he do that before or after suspending private property rights? Additionally when did Hitler say this quote? Was it when he was lying to the capitalists to garner their support?
    3
  1189.  @leftistadvocate9718  he did, it’s literally written in law. How else do you abolish private property then revoke the guarantee that the government wouldn’t take your property without just compensation? Gosh, it’s like you socialists believe that private property rights are what makes stealing illegal, no their primary purpose is to prevent the government from stealing form people, justifying the protection of citizens property from other citizens is just a side effect.
    3
  1190.  @leftistadvocate9718  did he need to? Every business was controlled by an nazi party member, and if you forgot the Nazi party was a strict, hierarchical organization that regularly purged its members. The end goal of socialism is for everything to be controlled by the group, and are you telling me the Nazi party didn’t control every aspect of society?
    3
  1191. So you didn’t watch the video?
    3
  1192.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  so who made the employment agency? Would I be stealing my customers labor if I grew apples and charged 30 ¢ more then the cost it took to produce the apples? What if it was 5$ what about 25$ when does it become stealing?
    3
  1193.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  well how do you look at it?
    3
  1194. It was never claimed that the Nazis were Marxists, in fact it was deliberately stated that Marxism, Fascism, and Nazism are distinct socialist ideologies.
    3
  1195.  @andyknowles772 you could actually watch the video where it sites the sources.
    3
  1196. How so?
    3
  1197.  @diegogbox  what does it mean to own something?
    3
  1198.  @diegogbox  ownership is control and the claim of control, private enterprises did not have control nor did they have a claim of control, so they did not have ownership.
    3
  1199.  @diegogbox  No it isn’t. You are basically saying that the Nazi party rewards loyalty with the profits, and because the Nazi party dictates what the prices are they also controlled the profits made. Additionally because most of the business owners were replaced with Nazi party members, most of the profits were flowing into the public institution that was the Nazi party, to be used for the Nazis economic, social, and military goals.
    3
  1200. Germany was already industrialized. Like really what in the world are you talking about?
    3
  1201. I’ve seen quite a few comments still accusing him of being a fascist, so I don’t really think you have a hill to stand on.
    3
  1202.  @rickglorie  then the question is, what makes the Nazis different from any other totalitarian socialist state?
    3
  1203.  @hobbso8508  socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and a centrally controlled economy is more efficient and can achieve the first. Both of these combined together tell us that socialists can’t be democratic. Socialists believe their system is more efficient and moral, so anyone voting against it is voting against the self interest of the collective, and any rights that works against the self interest of the collective will be taken.
    3
  1204.  @hobbso8508  “State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes business and commercial (i.e., for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are nationalized as state-owned enterprises” when Wikipedia, a left leaning platform, disagrees with you.
    3
  1205. Getting on BadHistory is a metic for quality content.
    3
  1206.  @Schnoz42069 and the state control’s society.
    3
  1207. But the German industrialists were internationalists. Why would they support someone who hates Jews and wanted to end trade? They were Jews. They were the ones who engaged in international trade.
    3
  1208. “Killing everyone on the left” you should rewatch the video.
    3
  1209. Your missing the point, Hitler believed his version was the only true socialism and all others were pretenders.
    3
  1210. So watch the five hour version where he does just that? Or will you stop and complain about how he’s defining words for a hour?
    3
  1211.  @hobbso8508 what if was state owned and privately managed? Like publicly traded companies are often owned by a collective, but are managed by a individual assigned by the collective.
    3
  1212.  @hobbso8508 so a socialist state can’t grant limited ownership of a company to a worker as long as they do what they state says?
    3
  1213.  @hobbso8508 so what happens when you do this for all the privately owned industries in the country?
    3
  1214.  @hobbso8508 you do understand that state capitalism was created to describe socialist states under the Warsawpact, right?
    3
  1215. So just like every socialist state ever.
    3
  1216. Can you provide some cases where that happens?
    3
  1217. The thing is socialism is a genocidal ideology itself. Everything that made the nazis bad was already present in socialism.
    3
  1218.  @gorkri9215 who do you think educated the fair right?
    3
  1219.  @JuvianTV  got to love your “schooling”. I’ve done my research, most sources that make out Nazis as not socialist directly contradict other sources trying to do the same thing. Turns out most academia is working off of WW2 propaganda. Just look at the sources before the war, they would rightly point out nazism similarities to socialism, then during the war all the sudden the narrative changed to the modern one.
    3
  1220.  @hoztravels2024 uh, so you didn’t watch the video…
    3
  1221. Hitler suspended private property in 1933...
    3
  1222. Socialism is predicated on the belief that the central control of the economy would be more efficient and morally effective then letting the economy be determined by market forces.
    3
  1223. Not really, imagine if the government reduced itself to its most basic functions, and so becoming adorable for the average person to voluntarily pay into. Because defense is a basic function other counties wouldn’t invade. After a while other organizations would pop up providing the same thing as the previous government, but for cheeper or with higher quality. The previous government and these new organizations don’t really want to fight each other because that costs a lot, and that additional cost would be transferred to the average buyer.
    2
  1224. Read what?
    2
  1225. What are you talking about?
    2
  1226.  @rickglorie  Did you actually watch the video?
    2
  1227.  @rickglorie  what about the Nazis makes them not socialists? They just took everything marxists say and made it about race instead of class. Why should the workers seize the means of production? Because in the eyes of the Marxist the workers are the contributing members of society and the capitalists are parasites that just leach off of it. This is the exact worldview that the Nazi had, just based on race. In the nazi worldview the aryans is the contributing members of society and the Jews are parasites that just leach off of it.
    2
  1228.  @hobbso8508 all of those things are vital to the running of a modern society, so no wonder every attempt ended up as horrific dictatorships.
    2
  1229.  @hobbso8508 talk to some actual socialists and not your “market socialist” buddies.
    2
  1230.  @hobbso8508  I have and each one has a different opinion on what makes socialism, socialism. Not wander I don’t know what socialism is, socialists themselves can’t agree what it is.
    2
  1231.  @hobbso8508 ctually, TIK, get off your alt-account and get some sleep. I know you’re doing all this arguing with people on your videos to drive up user interaction statistics, and while I like your videos this is kind of getting ridiculous.
    2
  1232.  @hobbso8508  You should really talk to other socialists, more often then not they have fallen for the labor theory of value and have based their entire ideology off of it.
    2
  1233. One major part of utopian socialism is how it didn’t view the world though the lans of class conflicts. So it’s responsible to assume that class conflicts are not inherent to socialism and that you probably could replace that conflict with a number of other ones, in this particular case radical conflict.
    2
  1234. It’s quite possible, your just not creative enough.
    2
  1235.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  what if we don’t end the state, but made taxation voluntary? Then any new organizations would have to actively be significantly better for people to switch to them.
    2
  1236.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  instead of throwing out the current state, let’s reduce it to its most basic tasks, like protecting private property and defending its customers against rights abuses. Reducing it this way would make it significantly cheaper, to the point where most people would willingly pay for such services instead of it being required. Thus any organization that competes with the government in this business will be too small to refuse the governments laws, or does the governments jobs of securing private property rights and national defense so much better that people think it’s worth switching over to. Basically libertarians acknowledge that there will be demand for a force that assists people in protecting their rights, we just don’t believe it needs to be something that your obligated to pay.
    2
  1237.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  I don’t understand? What do you mean by establishing property rights? Like everyone establishes property rights by existing, and these organizations can help people maintain their property rights.
    2
  1238.  @markfrederikbaksrensen8574  So what makes someone a historian then if it’s not studying sources and considering biases? You know, the stuff you are taught to do in college to become a historian.
    2
  1239.  @markfrederikbaksrensen8574  you have yet to explain how he isn’t a historian.
    2
  1240.  @markfrederikbaksrensen8574  History lays in the heart of the debate. Bringing up new viewpoints is literally what historians are supposed to do.
    2
  1241. How is it propaganda?
    2
  1242.  @hobbso8508  Being wrong doesn’t make it propaganda even if it was.
    2
  1243.  @healthpsychologist we are not saying they are communists, we are saying they are socialists. Communism doesn’t equal socialism.
    2
  1244.  @nathanmcbride1177 reprivatized to whom exactly, you will find that every historian will say they privatized them to organizations within the Nazi party.
    2
  1245. Are your sure about that? https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o
    2
  1246. You must remember that Corporatism is not Corporatocracy, just search up both of those terms. Basically Fascist Corporatism was a unification of all the separate unions and businesses in an industry into a single body called a corporation.
    2
  1247. Any actual arguments?
    2
  1248. ​ @Harrier_DuBois so yo didn't watch the video, where he backs that up?
    2
  1249. ​ @hobbso8508 thus socialism cannot be anarchist? Or market based?
    2
  1250.  @hobbso8508 according to you, socialism requires democracy, a form of government.
    2
  1251. How so exactly?
    2
  1252. What in the world are you talking about?
    2
  1253. What are you on about? What’s illogical and non historical about it?
    2
  1254. Addressed in the first five minutes.
    2
  1255.  @davidstrelec2000  you should really watch the video.
    2
  1256.  @Landon.Trotsky  he wasn’t baked by big capitalists, in fact there was only one capitalist that supported them before their rise to power, and he was put in the camps. The rest were just hedging their bets when it became obvious that the Nazis were likely to win.
    2
  1257.  @Landon.Trotsky  all of that was addressed in the video, so you made no point.
    2
  1258.  @LeeZaslofsky wasn’t notified of this comment, but did you actually watch the video? Unlike you (and TIK for that matter) I actually know what socialism is. Socialism is the belief that evil is learned and you could cure all of societies ills if you removed the evil from it. Marx called the evil Capitalism, Hitler called the evil Jewish blood. Both of these concepts are a meaningless collage of the things they didn’t like in society.
    2
  1259.  @LeeZaslofsky you do know that Marx called social democracy and national socialism to both be fake forms of socialism?
    2
  1260.  @hobbso8508  and calling market socialists socialists is a misnomer.
    2
  1261.  @hobbso8508  most libertarians actually believe unions and coops are good things. I don’t see how market socialists are actually against capitalists.
    2
  1262.  @hobbso8508  but value doesn’t come from labor.
    2
  1263.  @hobbso8508  no, value is a purely subjective concept. Everyone values things differently, that is self evident. Trade can’t be exploitative because it will only happen in both sides value what they are getting more then what they are losing. The common thread for all authoritarian socialists is that they believe that some value in the market is wrong, but the problem is the value of the market is the value of the collective, so all socialists want to destroy the market and impose upon everyone else their own values.
    2
  1264.  @hobbso8508  the employer-employee relationship is not exploitative, the employees (should) provide labor and the employer (supposedly) provides an organization that can more efficiently use that labor. Of course now a days the internet makes it a whole lot easier for people to organize themselves, so more people can just bypass the employer.
    2
  1265.  @hobbso8508  how do monopolies pop up and dominate markets without the state?
    2
  1266.  @hobbso8508  but why were there more oil suppliers before monopoly laws were made then before?
    2
  1267. TIK is just saying that the sources don’t support most historians.
    2
  1268.  @timothyhouse1622  all of that was addressed in the video, please watch it before you make any arguments. For my original point, the sources don’t back up the claim that the Nazis privatized the economy or had any form of private ownership. Any historian who believes that hasn’t read the sources.
    2
  1269.  @insanekos1 they hate communists because they are both socialists competing over the same ideas.
    2
  1270.  @lorisperfetto6021 anyone can make a prediction about market cycles, Marx’s predictions are completely unfounded.
    2
  1271. True, dialectics aren’t evil but socialism uses dialectics to cover up the fact that they are a religion.
    2
  1272.  @walterbailey2950  what are you talking, I was saying for a seemingly reactionary movement they implemented every policy they where seemingly reacting against.
    2
  1273.  @walterbailey2950  and I’m saying they weren’t reactionaries.
    2
  1274.  @walterbailey2950 my boy, policies that a anti-socialist reactionary wouldn’t support: ending private property rights, creating a national trade union that all workers were required to join, nationalizing the stock exchange, setting price and wage controls, creating a extensive welfare system.
    2
  1275. Abolition of the law of value? Socialism is based off of objective value and wouldn’t work without it.
    2
  1276.  @hobbso8508  How do you justify taking property from the rich?
    2
  1277. Or maybe it was the US just paid for one type of armored vehicle… Meanwhile the Nazis didn’t have that luxury.
    2
  1278.  @AYTM1200  so you acknowledge that socialist kill off and ban other socialists. So Hitler don’t the same thing don’t disqualify him as a socialist. Can you name anything else that makes him non-socialist?
    2
  1279.  @healthmain  i don’t see how that refuses his claim.
    2
  1280.  @healthmain  I’ve seen the argument that he hated Marxists and thought Marxism was a Jewish plot. He expressly says one of the reasons he hates Marxism is because it claims to be the only form of socialism.
    2
  1281.  @healthmain  so was the Soviet Union socialist? If you say no then your redefining socialism yourself and so cant be a socialist.
    2
  1282.  @healthmain  what did they do differently?
    2
  1283. Not really, just read through some of the comments and you’ll see people still claiming that he is a Nazi.
    2
  1284. Doubt.
    2
  1285. Yeah, and most of them were released… TIK talks about this.
    2
  1286. ​ @Will46666  so why would he call himself nationalist then?
    2
  1287. That’s doesn’t make any sense, how does centrally planing the economy make Nazi Germany have an advantage over everyone else?
    2
  1288.  @hobbso8508  it’s still illegal to steal in most socialist states, so I don’t know what your talking about. Like private property doesn’t exist without private property rights.
    2
  1289.  @hobbso8508  so did the Soviet Union, what does not having private property look like?
    2
  1290.  @hobbso8508  there is not such thing as personal property, such an idea is antithetical to socialism if you understand the the concept of “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”.
    2
  1291.  @hobbso8508  what’s stopping me from using my personal property for profit?
    2
  1292. That is refuted by the fact that the vast majority of Germans sent to the camps were set free. 6:08
    2
  1293. How were they friendly to capitalism? And where are the millions of dead German socialists?
    2
  1294.  @janno288 dam, it’s almost like TIK made videos talking about each of those topics…
    2
  1295. ⁠ @janno288 it is publicly owned… And he never said Amazon was communist…
    2
  1296.  @janno288 let me get this straight, socialist say the Nazis weren’t socialists? Color me surprised. Yeah, so did these owners actually control the profits? I mean Nazi Germany was a totalitarian state, so how could they.
    2
  1297.  @hobbso8508 so the Soviet Union also abolished unions?
    2
  1298.  @hobbso8508 now that we have established that socialists don’t need to allow workers unions, why are the Nazis not socialist?
    2
  1299. How so?
    2
  1300. Just like how any socialist movement is useful to certain property owners.
    2
  1301. For whom? The army he was in was a socialist one.
    2
  1302. Actually it was mostly grassroots.
    2
  1303. The nazi economy was socialist years before the war.
    2
  1304. He used to be a diehard socialist, so if his definitions are bad your definitions are just as untrustworthy.
    2
  1305.  @skeezicksz  what is the economic system of socialism?
    2
  1306. What business decisions?
    2
  1307.  @seandouglas5429  so basically the same thing as any other socialist factory, but now with a leader?
    2
  1308.  @rickglorie  so that Nazis came for the fascists? Because if you didn’t know, the fascists were trade unionists. Basically socialists kill other socialists all the time, nothing new.
    2
  1309.  @JohnBickner considering that basically every socialist country have done vary similar evils as Nazi Germany I doubt that.
    2
  1310.  @gladys2563 what kind of criticism?
    2
  1311. ⁠ @WhiteWolf126  there’s a reason I used quotes around the word privatized, because it wasn’t privatization. You have any sources for things being privatized outside state control?
    2
  1312. ⁠ You say I have no idea what I’m talking about but then what’s your education? Like everything you say here is verifiably false, if private property was so important then why did they suspend it? Additionally you haven’t shown me a source proving me wrong, meanwhile you have been show numerous sources proving you wrong.
    2
  1313.  @WhiteWolf126  all you have been doing here is repeating the same argument over and over. Even when shown evidence to the contrary.
    2
  1314.  @WhiteWolf126  ​​⁠​⁠ So a Bolshevik describes the Nazis as behaving like socialists but can admit that it is socialism. But awakening the collective consciousness does have everything to do with culture and academia.
    2
  1315.  @WhiteWolf126  ye, but what he describes is socialism, he just couldn’t admit to himself that Nazism is a sister ideology to his. Additionally the Nazis also removed all liberal thought, you know market liberals, the people who believe in free markets, private property, rights, and entrepreneurship?
    2
  1316. @Vesta_the_Lesserwow, and it turns out that the Nazis never relinquished their privileges in United Steel. Looks like you got hoodwinked, just like all the people they sold it to. So did you actually watch the video?
    2
  1317.  @kafkaMt there is plenty of evidence of capitalist abroad supporting his party, but out of thousands of rich capitalists in Germany, only two can be said to have actually supported him before his rise to power.
    2
  1318.  @OhNotThat  Ok, nothing you said actually contradicts what TIK is saying. TIK correctly figured out that fascism, marxism, and nazism are three separate socialist ideologies. Each takes the concept of the collective and assigns that to a different group. Fascism says the collective is the nation, marxism says the collective is the worker, and nazism says the collective is the German.
    2
  1319.  @OhNotThat  he makes the distinction vary clear in his other videos, especially the 4 hour one that this one simplifies.
    2
  1320. Not really, imagine if the government refused itself to its most basic functions, and so becoming adorable for the average person to voluntarily pay into. Because defense is a basic function other counties wouldn’t invade. After a while other organizations would pop up providing the same thing as the previous government, but for cheeper or with higher quality. The previous government and these new organizations don’t really want to fight each other because that costs a lot, and that additional cost would be transferred to the average buyer.
    2
  1321.  @rockmcdwayne1710 I hear socialists tell me all the time that there are limits to growth, after a point getting bigger won’t make you any more money. Really the market is like evolution in halftime. The bigger a organization gets the slower it is at adapting to changing environments, there’s a reason large animals tend to go extinct every time.
    2
  1322. How so?
    2
  1323.  @nightrise45  so you reject the sources he presets? Don’t look like you know how to study history.
    2
  1324.  @nightrise45  the sources disagree with you. The scientific method disagrees with you. You can’t be more wrong.
    2
  1325. @puppy one Private hands? There was nothing private about it.
    2
  1326. socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and the free market is terrible (and a centrally controlled economy is more efficient). Both of these combined together tell us that socialists can’t be democratic. Socialists believe their system is more efficient and moral, so anyone voting against it is voting against the self interest of the collective, and any rights that works against the self interest of the collective will be taken.
    2
  1327.  @alphana7055  nothing you said contradicts what I said. If “from one according to his ability, to one according to his need” was indeed an end goal, it still means the end goal is to take away the rights of the individual for the benefit of the collective.
    2
  1328.  @Ichabod_Jericho what’s wrong with it.
    2
  1329.  @johnd.2778  socialists weren’t the only ones sent to the camps, liberals, conservatives, aristocracy, they all were killed off in large numbers. The only reason Hitler don’t do it to the same degree to the conservatives was because he didn’t view them as a threat, much to the disappointment of other Nazis.
    2
  1330.  @johnd.2778  socialists kill other socialists all the time, nothing new.
    2
  1331.  @AceXINFAMY  socialists love killing other socialists, nothing new.
    2
  1332.  @AceXINFAMY  I would have to ask how the Nazis were regressive?
    2
  1333.  @AceXINFAMY  go back to what exactly? You will find that if they really were reactionaries, they did a piss poor job at it, literally enacting every policy that they were seemingly reacting against.
    2
  1334.  @AceXINFAMY  you keep on saying that they want to go back to the good old days, but you can never describe what good old days they want to return to.
    2
  1335. When self branded socialists enact socialist policies.
    2
  1336.  @LaborPrince  yeah you should actually watch the video before making such claims. Unions with autonomy? In a socialist state? What are you taking about? Yeah if you didn’t pay attention to the video, Nazis weren’t Marxists, they were race based socialists. They abandoned the idea of class conflict and replaced it with race conflict. This is why they supported class collaboration while still be socialist. You have any evidence that they were pawns of big business? Any businessmen with substantial power that weren’t members of the party/state and thus public agents?
    2
  1337.  @chromaticstorm787 so they were private in name only? That’s what we are saying, this privatization was privatization in name only.
    2
  1338.  @freemindrebel isn’t that how all socialist states work?
    2
  1339. Yet every socialist wants central planning, it’s the only alternative to the free market.
    2
  1340. ​ @hobbso8508 so socialism can't be stateless?
    2
  1341. ​ @hobbso8508 you just said it had to be democratic, aka it has to have a government.
    2
  1342. Over and over again I see how you watch the video and just can’t comprehend what TIK’s talking about.
    2
  1343. I mean he is also creating a community of Marxists, is he assisting them?
    2
  1344. What parts of white Russia does this support?
    2
  1345. I mean you are wrong, in a vary complex way.
    2
  1346. But he wasn’t a social conservative, he wanted the permanent revolution. His was a social revolution. He did suspended private property, and he definitely removed markets.
    2
  1347.  @glyndwr15  well you should watch the 4 hours video where TIK addresses all of that.
    2
  1348.  @glyndwr15  and you don’t think families are the cornerstone of society? They are literally the foundation of social networks, if you change how that social network works every other social network would change around that.
    2
  1349. He used that definition long before ever reading Mises, in fact he would’ve never heard of him it it wasn’t for you guys comparing them all the time.
    2
  1350. ​ @tg4678 a proponent of workplace democracy is definitely not a Marxist, Marxim calls for central planning, something that's mutually exclusive with workplace democracy.
    2
  1351.  @tg4678 so you haven’t read Marx?
    2
  1352.  @tg4678 so what if a brach of socialism decided that class conflict wasn’t uniting the people, and so switched to race conflict?
    2
  1353.  @tg4678 uh, they didn’t switch to an ideology that opposed socialism, they created a new ideology out of socialism… It would be like saying Mormons are anti-Christians, because they abandoned the nicene creed and added their own ideas. Nazism identified that Germans were powerless to the Jewish elite who were exploiting them (this idea is exemplified by the stab in the back theory), in fact in their eyes the Jews corrupted socialism to deliberately divide Germans into classes to make them easier to control and exploit. The Nazis never wanted slavery, because according to them, if you could work, you were Aryan. Additionally if you were not Aryan, you were incapable of working. If a group of people are incapable of working, they can only parasitize and exploit those who can, so it’s for the benefit of the rest of society to remove them.
    2
  1354. ​ @commonwombat-h6r so say you were a capitalist in a newly formed socialist state, what would you pay to survive and keep your property?
    2
  1355.  @leosam7097 libertarians don’t believe that rules are bad, but that they don’t reflect the actual values of the people, a free market will always match the values of the people, simply because they will pay for what they feel is valuable.
    2
  1356.  @leosam7097  i don’t really see how the fascism thing is relevant when they were socialist themselves. No I’m not enlightened, but if the rules really do reflect the culture then they would exist under a free market framework ether way. A free market of law would always reflect the current culture and beliefs of the population.
    2
  1357.  @leosam7097  you should read The Machinery of Freedom, it covers how a free market legal system would work. Your correct that the culture shapes the market, but your wrong that we need a central state to enforce said culture. If a culture can’t survive without a state it isn’t much of a culture.
    2
  1358. But isn’t socialism for the working class?
    2
  1359.  @theWASPdefender that would make them communists more then fascists, witch if you watched the video you should know there are reasons for those distinctions no matter how close they are to each other.
    2
  1360.  @Slinkai  your definition then precludes every socialist state from being socialist, witch is a even worse distortion of history and explains exactly why it would never happen, as you would need a state to restructure society into socialism.
    2
  1361.  @Slinkai  wait, so your telling me that nazism can’t be socialism, without defining what socialism actually is?
    2
  1362.  @Slinkai  I’m mainly using where the ideology came from as my definition. Nazism is direct descendant of socialism that merged marxist ideas with eugenics. Every idea in nazism has a one it one parallel with marxism.
    2
  1363.  @Slinkai  way to show your ignorance, Fascism is not nazism, hell both ideologies were even rivals for a while. No, Hitler basically just took Marx’s labor, class, and historical theories and combined it with the second most popular idea with the working class, eugenics. Instead of a class based view of the world, nazism espoused a race based view of the world, with its own race based theories on labor and history. Even it’s hatred of Marx was created by basing Marxist ideas on race, the Capitalists/Jews created ideologies and religious to divide the workers/Germans and keep them suppressant while they siphon away their wealth. Since marx was a Jew and he created communism which divided the Germans by class, it was obvious that communism was a corruption of true socialism, and thus making it about race restores it to its original intent, which was an ancient Germanic tradition. Read up on some quotes form Hitler about why he calls himself socialist even though he’s so different from other socialists. Also you should search up what Corporatism actually means as an ideology. These corporations are not private, and are more akin to ministries then companies.
    2
  1364.  @Slinkai  i never said fascism wasn’t corporatism, but that corporatism is inherently socialist in nature. Additionally your mistaking Marxism for socialism is general, any idea that nazism cannot be socialist because Marx said socialism was egalitarian doesn’t make that true.
    2
  1365.  @Cubeforc3  so the Bolsheviks weren't socialists? its beginning to look like you chose facts to fit your world view. I mean at the end TIK explains that he used to be a socialist and then he realized that the holocaust only worked if Hitler was a socialist, and so to not be a holocaust denier he had to admit Hitler was a socialist.
    2
  1366.  @Supernautiloid  i haven’t seen anyone debunk it, could you provide an example.
    2
  1367.  @paulsame1124  l’m pretty sure they funded one of the parties members and not the party itself, but even if I’m wrong, when did they fund it? Additionally how is this any different from the Soviet Union? They also were funded by Wall Street and their ideological enemies. Can I say the Soviet Union is monarchist?
    2
  1368.  @paulsame1124  I’ve been looking for some sources of that but can’t find any, where can I find them? The only source so far that isn’t locked behind a paywall is Wikipedia, and I can’t get any exact dates that can confirm or deny my theory. Additionally would it be fair to call the Soviet Union monarchist?
    2
  1369.  @spencerjohnson5871 ​​⁠I love how you say TIK is using modern definitions to say the Nazis were socialist, but then go on to use modern definitions yourself to define Nazis as not socialist. Like you pointed out that socialism at the time wasn’t completely attached to the idea of worker ownership, then went on to use worker ownership to say they weren’t socialist.
    2
  1370.  @spencerjohnson5871 sure, but Hitler was still socialist, like how early Christian sects that didn’t believe in the resurrection would still be Christian.
    2
  1371.  @spencerjohnson5871 ”a political ideology that believes in the common control of the means of production” is exactly what the Nazis believed, like did you watch the video?
    2
  1372.  @hobbso8508 you have evidence for that?
    2
  1373.  @hobbso8508 no socialist has ever believed in common control, otherwise they would’ve had democracy before.
    2
  1374.  @hobbso8508 care to provide an example?
    2
  1375.  @hobbso8508 yet worker cooperatives don’t call themselves socialist. How come? Like if collective ownership can include coops, then it can also include publicly traded companies.
    2
  1376.  @hobbso8508 but publicly traded companies are still collective ownership.
    2
  1377.  @hobbso8508 will you kindly google the definition for common ownership and collective ownership?
    2
  1378.  @hobbso8508 so the only difference is that one is controlled by the state (common ownership) and one is controlled by the collective (collective ownership).
    2
  1379.  @hobbso8508 wow look at me being wrong! Thanks for the correction. So say a kingdom was controlled in common by all members of the royal family, with all members of the family having an equal and indivisible, would that classify as common ownership?
    2
  1380.  @hobbso8508 but that was never in the definition of common ownership.
    2
  1381. Well for a few months after the night of the long knives most new members where former socialists, so in anything the Nazi party became more socialist.
    2
  1382. https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o
    2
  1383. What in the world are you talking about.
    2
  1384.  @LyndonLaRoucheArchive what spin does TIK have?
    2
  1385.  @LyndonLaRoucheArchive so the Soviet Union was monarchist now?
    2
  1386. The Machinery of Freedom answers all those questions, but in short RDA’s would try to form agreements with all other RDA’s on what mediators they want to use, simply because if they ever did come in conflict actually fighting it out would cost both sides tons of money. Now you as a customer would pay close attention to the mediators that RDA’s use, because they are the ones who set the law.
    2
  1387. ​ @patmacken5130  You get what rights you offer to other people.
    2
  1388.  @patmacken5130  yes, but the beauty of such a system is they will have to pay for it.
    2
  1389.  @patmacken5130 and I will pay another group of people to defend me. Basically how much I value my ability to freely associate would go up against how much they value to force who I can associate with. The thing is most people agree that being able to freely associate is nice and going back to the old days where you where forced to associate with a government is a bad idea. We already fought off being forced to associate with certain businesses and the like, so how would this be any different?
    2
  1390.  @patmacken5130  I’m not being forced to pay, I could pay any number of people or I could do it myself or I could make a club with all my friends who believe the same thing and would be willing to protect each other for free.
    2
  1391.  @patmacken5130  yep and completely voluntary! Why is this hard to grasp? Ancaps don’t care if there’s a government, just that you can freely choose to associate with it.
    2
  1392.  @patmacken5130  your not correct on your assessment, the US doesn’t care where you live, if you were a US citizen at one point they will always come after you for taxes. The truth is most people can’t afford to just become citizens of new states, and most states actively try making it harder. A libertarian society is by far the least utopian because it believes states will exist but they won’t really be bound by territory, so if you don’t like how your state is running things you can on a dime switch to another state or even try creating your own.
    2
  1393.  @patmacken5130 the big question here is what services does the government provide? And does the government need to provide them? You should read the Machinery of Freedom, it covers how the free market can provide common laws and courts, though it doesn’t answer the defense question yet.
    2
  1394. Can you name the rich Germans who supported Hitler before it looked like he would win the election?
    2
  1395.  @freemindrebel  oh nice! From what I seen it doesn’t actually disprove that they were socialist.
    2
  1396. How so?
    2
  1397.  @thecollierreport  https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o
    2
  1398. Well if that’s a problem you could definitely found a company to satisfy that need, imagine the boost to your image if you went out there and protected those people for free, I bet a bunch of them might want to switch over to you once they get back up on their feet.
    2
  1399.  @hobbso8508  when the state is the collective, you don’t need collective action.
    2
  1400.  @hobbso8508  well it’s still the problem of objective value. Socialists can’t allow strakes because that means value is subjective and their theory that capitalists are stealing their surplus labor has nothing to stand on. So it’s ether admit that their ideology is wrong or class those who are protesting as dissidents fighting the revolution.
    2
  1401.  @TCFC2  what wouldn’t I understand?
    2
  1402.  @ianwhitchurch864  actually he didn’t, there was like two industrialists who supported him before his rise to power, and they were quickly removed from their positions.
    2
  1403.  @ianwhitchurch864  not really, if you pissed off the party in any way you would be removed and replaced with a party member. They got to keep profits because they were party members, so the money was flowing into the state anyways. Additionally the state determined what profits you could make when they decide how much you can by things for, how much you can sell things for, and how much you have to pay your workforce.
    2
  1404.  @ianwhitchurch864  they did this years before the war, so you can’t say it’s a wartime measure.
    2
  1405.  @ianwhitchurch864  try again, in Nazi Germany the average employer owns their company as much as you own apple with a non-controlling share.
    2
  1406.  @ianwhitchurch864 but the Nazis weren’t at war when they took control of the economy.
    2
  1407.  @PantheraKitty  if you read The Vampire Economy it’s pretty obvious, if you read Hitler’s beneficiaries it’s pretty obvious. It’s only not obvious because socialists obfuscate it and invent terms to distance themselves from it.
    2
  1408. But why go to war?
    2
  1409.  @kevkuehnertskuelerkuehlschrank  but if he wanted to accomplish any of those, why go to war with Russia?
    2
  1410. What facts?
    2
  1411.  @sky_professor3051  The same way the Soviets crushed labor unions?
    2
  1412.  @gladys2563 have you seen TIC’s other videos on the subject?
    2
  1413. But they have, violate someone else’s rights and you agree to have those same rights violated.
    2
  1414.  @rtmclean484  do you know what he was talking about when he said corporations?
    2
  1415. One of the major aspects of socialism is taking the rights of the individual for the betterment of the collective, turns out that the right to vote is often included. Additionally nazism is an ideology of inclusion of the contributing members of society and rejections of parasites, same as Marxism.
    2
  1416.  @adrijan6510  that’s marxism boy.
    2
  1417. How did you miss this?
    2
  1418.  @hobbso8508  if eliminating the right to private property isn’t how you eliminate private ownership, then what is?
    2
  1419.  @hobbso8508  but how do you do it?
    2
  1420.  @CANNNIBALIX  Oh, I’m actually interested, what is some of the stuff you heard when you were a kid?
    2
  1421.  @CANNNIBALIX  so basically Germany used socialist policy and stole from other countries to pay for it by exporting their inflation, the same thing that America has been doing since the end of the war?
    2
  1422.  @CANNNIBALIX  to pay for your own socialism, all the social policies cost a lot to maintain. Why would capitalist need weapons when they can trade for the goods?
    2
  1423. The thing is privately he was saying all the same things…
    2
  1424.  @stopusingmyaccountonyoutub9442 I don’t think you actually watched the video you are commenting under, like how did you miss the fact that the Nazis ended private property in 1933, you know, years before they went to war.
    2
  1425.  @Elcollpohorrible run for profits? You have a source for this?
    2
  1426.  @Schnoz42069 here’s a better question, how exactly would a collective make decisions with the property they all own?
    2
  1427.  @Schnoz42069  wouldn’t that require an institution, especially considering how many people are a part of the collective?
    2
  1428.  @Schnoz42069  what do you think is a state but the institution that is used to govern society?
    2
  1429.  @Schnoz42069  sure, but the state is society + government, and democracy as your describing is a government.
    2
  1430.  @Lansone31 what cult?
    2
  1431.  @hobbso8508  and you have presented no evidence of your case.
    2
  1432.  @hobbso8508  yet you can’t provide any.
    2
  1433.  @hobbso8508  yes, and he explains why he disagrees with the sources while still using them.
    2
  1434. Great stuff to collaborate with this video.
    2
  1435.  @FerdarPleaseSubscribe yeah, but it’s voluntary, if you don’t like the state you could always switch to one that you like better, all without having to relocate or anything.
    2
  1436.  @Rundstedt1  like the Soviet Union?
    2
  1437.  @xtoll123  ye, socialism works under capitalism, but it would never work independently. Also your misrepresenting libertarians, their point is that if the government can do it, shouldn’t I be able to do it, and if I can do it why should use the government to force others to do it. If you want affordable healthcare get rid of all the laws deliberately made to decrease supply, including IP laws. After that we need to change how we pay doctors so they are actually incentivized to keep us healthy.
    2
  1438.  @xtoll123  it was never a thing of right and wrong, it was a simple saying of anything the government can do I could do better. Is the government needed to protect private property, na I can to it better.
    2
  1439.  @xtoll123  have you ever considered the reason every socialist country falls to a dictatorship is because socialism requires the removal of all restrictions on government power? The truth behind both things is we need strong constitutions limiting the powers on both big businesses and government. These limits shouldn’t be able to be changed and should focus on giving the individual the most power.
    2
  1440. It’s more like these members of the Nazi party are representatives of the state when they are given those industries. If the state ever needed to they could and would revoke them.
    2
  1441. Only people who believe the same things I do can talk about x thing.
    2
  1442. Why can’t it be voluntary though? If it’s so useful people would willingly pay for it.
    2
  1443. Well what has he got wrong?
    2
  1444. ​ @corn.3892 by your own definition socialism wouldn't be on the left...
    2
  1445.  @corn.3892 yeah, there is a reason I don’t use the right-left dichotomy, it doesn’t depict reality all that well. Additionally why did other socialist states become totalitarian hierarchies?
    2
  1446.  @corn.3892 exactly, the Nazis themselves claimed to want to end hierarchies and create a egalitarian ethno-socialist state. Just like how Marxists want to exterminate all other classes, Nazis want to exterminate all other races.
    2
  1447.  @ammass321 so where do they state these goals?
    2
  1448.  @teresacastro1263 the Soviet Union was also racist and nationalistic. Was it also right wing?
    2
  1449.  @Schnoz42069 state capitalism is a type of socialism.
    2
  1450.  @Schnoz42069  “Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.” “State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes business and commercial (i.e., for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are nationalized as state-owned enterprises (including the processes of capital accumulation, centralized management and wage labor).” Are you sure about that?
    2
  1451. So did the socialist revolution take place?
    2
  1452. Do you have any sources to back up your claims?
    2
  1453. How so?
    2
  1454.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  I’m better there would be a lot more then just 2. People would only pay these other organizations if they think they are better then the normal government, which includes being a moral organization that doesn’t wage war with its rivals. Additionally waging war is expensive, the rates for protection would go up driving customers to competitor who aren’t fighting. For the organizations that give better property rights to the people who can pay, how is that any worse then what we have today? Also would you pay that organization, or would you stick with organizations that “tax” people equally and give them equal property rights?
    2
  1455. Back then there was no difference between the nation and the people of the nation. And how do you know something is for the good of the people?
    2
  1456. So just like the every socialist state ever?
    2
  1457.  @walterbailey2950 this is countered by the fact that he gave the worker councils authority to command the owner of the company.
    2
  1458. Well let’s try some things. When did anyone at the time call what the Nazis were doing privatization?
    2
  1459.  @cezarstefanseghjucan  feudalism, capitalist? Explain.
    2
  1460.  @angryatheist  you should really watch the video.
    2
  1461. Some things to consider is that Hitler was not in the violent revolution branch of socialism, he was in the peaceful revolution branch. The difference between the two is one wanted to violently seize the means of production, while the other wanted to peacefully seize the means of production. Hitler did abolish private property rights, he just didn’t violently seize all property.
    2
  1462. But they still had property rights, Right? They could still sue the government for misappropriating property, right?
    2
  1463.  @dagothur3592  you should probably rewatch the video then.
    2
  1464.  @dagothur3592  3:00
    2
  1465.  @SkeeterHowitzer uh, you should watch the video. TIK talks about your so called good sources and addresses them in the video. Like seriously TIK is a historian, and a historians job is to look at all the sources and consider their biases.
    2
  1466.  @SkeeterHowitzer conceal the truth? You wouldn’t even watch the video! You’re the only one who’s concealing truth, from yourself!
    2
  1467.  @SkeeterHowitzer the Bank of England? Who also supported the Soviets? How does that show that the Nazis weren’t socialist?
    2
  1468.  @SkeeterHowitzer so let be get this straight, the Bank of England supported the Nazis, and they also supported the Soviets. So sure the Nazis were supported by capitalists, but so were the Soviets. Were the Soviets a capitalist plot too? The entire point of the video is to show how the Nazis were supported by capitalists into power in the same way that other socialist countries war supported by capitalists into power, thus any argument that the Nazis were not socialist because they were supported by capitalists fall flat. You would know this if you actually watched the video.
    2
  1469.  @SkeeterHowitzer  why should I read any of your source when you wouldn’t even watch the video you are commenting under, witch addresses your sources. The Nazis weren’t funded into power by capitalists in any way that makes them socialist.
    2
  1470.  @maxschon7709  Buts that’s not the stab in the back theory, that theory stipulates that the rich German elites forced Germany to surrender so they could enrich themselves. So do you have evidence of the contrary?
    2
  1471. This guy is British.
    2
  1472.  @arnodobler1096  so what did he get wrong?
    2
  1473.  @arnodobler1096  you need to go back to school then.
    2
  1474.  @josephk.4200  my boycott? No, I’m simply paying someone who actually supports me, like everyone else. Why would anyone pay the plutocrat for rights defense if they are doing it badly? Especially since there are lots of other people doing it better?
    2
  1475. Dam, tell me you weren’t paying attention.
    2
  1476.  @coffeyvov2020  marxism is just one form of socialism, class based socialism at that, the Nazis were race based socialists. Like really you have watched his videos yet haven’t picked of on this argument?
    2
  1477.  @coffeyvov2020 ga, YouTube doesn’t like me saying anything about killing off stuff. So let be try again. ​​⁠but wanting to remove the parasites who are draining wealth from the contributors is socialism, what to you think the whole hatred for capitalists is about? Like marxism is about removing the parasite class to free the contributing class, while Nazism is about removing the parasite race to free the contributing race.
    2
  1478.  @coffeyvov2020 I got to hear what you think some of these capitalists lies are. Like socialists want to genocide all other classes, and a common way of genociding a group is through reeducation. Thus sending the capitalists to work camps to “teach them to work” is genocide.
    2
  1479.  @charleymount582 what do you mean by right?
    2
  1480.  @63Limar  but then they would’ve done that, but no. Their propaganda was purely just “Jews are controlling the communists, if it weren’t for the Jews we wouldn’t be at war with them.”
    2
  1481.  @hobbso8508  true, my parents have fallen for the antisemitic conspiracy theories themselves and I wouldn’t call them socialist.
    2
  1482.  @63Limar  you probably don’t know any Nazi propaganda. TIK recently made a video going over some of it. Though truth be told he only went over a few, so if you can provide good counter examples refuting his claims I would appreciate it.
    2
  1483. I mean, endless growth is perpetuated largely by government inflation and taxation. Such things force the endless growth mindset on the rest of society.
    2
  1484. I mean the USSR was imperialist, which is a large part of why it was the rival of the US.
    2
  1485. How Nazis answer the whole, “what about survival of the fittest” is that they are collective Darwinists, they seek the survival of the collective, which in turn assists in their own survival. Aka, they believe composition within a racial group will lead to lower chances of survival than cooperation within a racial group. Honestly I barely understand the whole social Darwinism ideas, but you’re way off the mark.
    2
  1486.  @Azazin187  socialism is the belief that humans are naturally good and that it’s society that corrupts them, so if you remove all corrupting influences from society you would create a utopia where everyone’s equal, the state is not needed, and property is owned by everyone. Tell me how are the nazis not economically socialists? They centrally planned the economy and created the largest labor union in history. The privatization myth is a falsehood based off of the sayings of a few low ranking Nazis. I’m not arguing that the modern sources are marxist, but that they are basing their claims off of biased sources while not critically examining them.
    2
  1487.  @Azazin187 there are numerous sources showing that the owners of the companies had little to no control over their companies. TIK has a video on it.
    2
  1488. State directed private ownership economy? Are you even reading your own quotes? That’s quite literally central planning by another name. Additionally nothing about socialism actually says you have to be egalitarian, socialists are actively aggressive against the parts of society they believe corrupt it. Marx invented the whole idea of class socialism and codified most of these egalitarian aspects, but he was only one branch of socialism that existed at the time. Several other smaller branches went on to become fascism and national socialism.
    2
  1489.  @Azazin187 ​​⁠​⁠​​⁠eh, many socialists at the time of Marx where trying to incorporate this new Darwinism thing, which is where Social Darwinism ​originally came from. ​⁠For the ethno-nationalist side check out the völkisch national socialists. These were the socialists who originally created the nazi party, and the socialists who were so often cited as being purged during the night of the long knives were völkisch national socialists.
    2
  1490.  @Azazin187  the reichstag fire decree literally is the suspension of the right to private property. Where are you getting the idea that Hitler upheld private property from?
    2
  1491. ⁠ @Azazin187 I don’t really know who those people are? Do they believe that all of societies ills can be cured if humans are socialized properly? If yes then they are socialists.
    2
  1492. It’s simple, the voluntary association could go to the people being stolen from and ask how much they would pay to have them come over and kick out their oppressors. Now the stealers have to fight someone who has the resources of their own territory and yours.
    2
  1493.  @ysbrand1114  capitalism destroying the earth sounds a lot like antisemitism. And socialism doesn’t care about human rights ether, if you had your perfect democratic socialism I hear you guys crying about, then you could vote to exterminate any minority you like.
    2
  1494.  @ysbrand1114  what are you talking about? Just because you haven’t heard about the terrible working conditions in the Soviet Union doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And the Soviet Union did more to damage the environment then any single company ever.
    2
  1495.  @ysbrand1114  never said it was, but you know nothing about the USSR, all you know about is the atrocities caused by the US, where information is actually free. Digging up the atrocities from the USSR is significantly harder, but they have a lot more of them, so try it.
    2
  1496. This was before he became a “V-Mann” And isn’t social democrats another form of socialism?
    2
  1497.  @yaboi2639  so if a branch of socialism can behave almost exactly like fascism, what’s to say that fascism wasn’t also a brach of socialism. Most of the leading members of fascism were previously socialists, so there is an ideological linage to socialism that all fascist like ideologies have.
    2
  1498. So can you name other economic systems?
    2
  1499.  @ajax2181 when half of those are just different flavors of socialism…
    2
  1500. ⁠ @ajax2181 so the Soviet Union was followed corporatism? And Cuba?
    2
  1501. What’s wrong?
    2
  1502. Uh, the Nazis viewed the Jews as a race, just like how marxists believe capitalists are a class. TIK agrees with you on both of your points.
    2
  1503. Did you actually watch the video?
    2
  1504.  @lukelyon1781  so the only difference is that it was illegal to steal? That doesn’t sound like it’s too big of a difference, in fact I’ve talked to many socialists who claim that socialism can have property rights in this vary comment section. It seems to me you have a vary surface level understanding of this. Also most libertarians hate IP laws, don’t view them as actual property.
    2
  1505.  @lukelyon1781  everything that you said makes socialism different from fashion was exactly what the fascists did, if you only watched the video you would’ve seen that.
    2
  1506.  @lukelyon1781  yeah, that’s were I differ from libertarians, the main reason the government is so good is because it’s limited on what it can do, supposedly. I will only support a corporation when it have the same limits as the government.
    2
  1507. Extreme liberalism doesn’t seem to have any of the downsides you mention.
    2
  1508. Command economy was the basic tenant of socialism, how else do you manage an economy without private property?
    2
  1509.  @kackbraten5390  I mean the definition of socialism is the collective control over the means of production, and well, everything is a means of production.
    2
  1510. You should actually watch TIK’s videos, they cover that.
    2
  1511. And ignore all quotes from the big corporations who disagree with you.
    2
  1512. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist? Because socialists kill other socialists all the time.
    2
  1513.  @Jenseduca what deleted comments? Maybe it’s you who is the lier.
    2
  1514. The thing is you are free to pay them or not, but the moment you violate someone else’s rights you are telling society that’s where your rights end as well. Rights are limits two people can agree on. If you steal you automatically agree that it’s ok to steal from you.
    2
  1515.  @stephenurban9880  Which is not coercion because I agreed to it by the fact that I stole. You get what rights you offer to other people.
    2
  1516.  @stephenurban9880 that sounds much better then the system we have now.
    2
  1517.  @stephenurban9880  but significantly less coercive then any other system.
    2
  1518.  @stephenurban9880  the NAP answers this, if you aggress against someone else’s rights you consent to having your own rights aggressed against. Thus any restitution is not coercion.
    2
  1519.  @stephenurban9880  no, it’s a simple treat people how you want to be treated. If you brake into someone’s house and steal their stuff don’t be surprised when someone does the same to you.
    2
  1520. So you admit that ancaps aren’t Utopian?
    2
  1521.  @kapitanpufferfish5164 completely wrong. Socialism is the ideology of social engineering, that humans are naturally good and it’s the society that corrupts them, and if we destroyed all of the corrupting influences then we could create a society where we all live in harmony. Marxism said the capitalist is the corrupting influence, nazism said the Jew is the corrupting influence.
    2
  1522.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  does social sound like workers to you? No social means social.
    2
  1523.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  Let me rephrase that for you. "Social control is when society controls it. May I ask what the society is? Who makes up the society as a whole? Social is collective, owned by the community and the community is made of germens." The Nazis are just as justified in calling their ideology socialism as you are. The democratization of the workplace is not socialism and in fact fits perfectly within liberationism.
    2
  1524.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  firstly I’m not used the Marxist definition, the definitions made by Marx are some of the worst definitions ever made. Every socialist state uses democracy to justify its rule, they just hate liberal democracy, you know, where people have rights like property and voting. They define the state as the community, simply because any ruling body automatically becomes the state. The coops become the state the Komi they take power. If they don’t believe in using their authority as a state to force people to do things they are libertarians. Basically there are two types of socialists out there. Ones who want the state to control the means of production, and libertarians who have attraction to worker coops.
    2
  1525.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  how would you enforce stateless and classlessness? You can’t get rid of those and have a industrial economy, and without an industrial economy 90% of the population can’t survive. And a self employed economy is the least authoritarian. The free market doesn’t care about authoritarianism, it just turns out that authoritarian systems are much better at creating large organizations, and do to the economics of scale those organizations are fairly efficient. On the opposite side you have self employment, true freedom, but no organization. The most free but the least efficient. In between those you have joint ownership, and the more people you have owning it the more authoritarian it becomes. With two people your freedom is already 1/2 what it was before, and each person after that just takes more freedom. So when you ask a libertarian like myself if we want to make the economy based on Coops, answer is hell no, if we want freedom we will become self employed. +No I don’t think I will.
    2
  1526.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  automaton would just create self employment, not worker coops. Even with automaton resources are still finite so there is always rewards to be gained from creating more efficient systems. You will never get rid of money because money is required for millions of people to work together and society still needs millions of people to work together even with automation. Inequality is a natural part of the world, and the easiest way to make people equal is to tear down the successful, not lift the poor. Also any proof that Coops are more successful and efficient?
    2
  1527.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  the problem is automation has never done that, automation creates a short term employment crisis as the market adjusts, afterwards everyone enjoys an increased standard of living. The type of automation we are seeing today is cheep automation, where literally anyone can get their hands on it and use it to great effect. Additionally show me a monopoly that wasn’t created by the government. I don’t need to watch Vaush, the free market has already shown that Coops are less efficient then capitalist companies.
    2
  1528.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  I’ve never seen a capitalist fear automation before, and who said the system would not adjust? I didn’t. Not many people use alternatives because they are that much better then the companion, and they aren’t monopolies in your own confession, just sort of. If I’m objectively wrong, why aren’t Coops controlling most of the economy now? The free market quite literally doesn’t care about the business model, only that it is more efficient. We don’t see Coops controlling most of the economy, so that means capitalism has a major economic advantage in a free market.
    2
  1529.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  there is no such thing as a ideology of capitalism. Capitalism is just Marx’s name for non-democratic business.
    2
  1530.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  but that also would include Coops, if the coops are privately owned by the workers who run them.
    2
  1531.  @vishalpatkar6819  you do know that the public means the state for all intents and purposes? By that definition the Nazis were socialists, they installed their organization into every seat of power, and when an organization refused to yield they seized the property and sold it to one of their own.
    2
  1532.  @walterbailey2950  so what about liberalism, you know, capitalism.
    2
  1533.  @oscartang4587u3  don’t forget that you would need a Nazi party official to monitor your establishment.
    2
  1534.  @hobbso8508 that would be mercantilism, the precursor to capitalism.
    2
  1535.  @hobbso8508  we already have a name for “state capitalism” and its mercantilism.
    2
  1536.  @hobbso8508  the what exactly is state capitalism and what makes it different?
    2
  1537.  @hobbso8508  aah, so socialism with a veneer of capitalism.
    2
  1538.  @hobbso8508  my boy, socialism is based out of the labor theory of value.
    2
  1539.  @hobbso8508  then what is socialism? If you say democratization of the workplace, I’m sorry to tell you, but that is also capitalism. Nothing about capitalism says you can’t have democracy in the workplace.
    2
  1540.  @hobbso8508  why do they have to be egalitarian? Marxism certainly wasn’t. I’m pretty sure my definition fits better. Socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and the free market is terrible (without understanding that a centrally controlled economy is the only alternative).
    2
  1541.  @hobbso8508  socialism believes all rights are privileges, and their existence depends on if they support the collective, socialists believe property doesn’t support the collective so they don’t believe it’s a right, and it’s only a small jump from that to consider voting and speech to not be rights. Socialists believe you can give rights, capitalists believe you can only take rights. Free market socialism doesn’t believe in private property, the single thing that allows markets to operate. Free market socialism still relies on central planing to control investing.
    2
  1542.  @hobbso8508  how so? Do you even know what free market socialism is? From what I read it’s when the government owns the business, but production and consumption is determined my market forces. So basically the government controls how things are invested.
    2
  1543.  @hobbso8508  that’s the kind of thinking that makes you a socialist, you believe all rights are things that have to be given, meanwhile capitalists believe rights are things that the government can’t do. Rights are basically government obligations, negative rights are where the government is obligated to not do something, while positive rights are where the government is obligated to do something. The only place for positive rights is when the government is going to take away a negative right, where basically they have to do X Y and Z otherwise they can’t take your negative rights.
    2
  1544.  @hobbso8508  then most libertarians are also market socialists. Which is why I don’t believe market socialists are actually socialists, they are just Worker Coop libertarians.
    2
  1545.  @hobbso8508  what is capitalism then?
    2
  1546.  @hobbso8508  ah, so that’s where we are. Congratulations you are using the correct, but not socially excepted definition of capitalism. It’s also where you prove yourself wrong, because the state is the public sector, it is the collective. So state capitalism is an oxymoron.
    2
  1547.  @hobbso8508  Claiming socialism needs the people’s representation gos against every socialist regime. Honestly the more I learn about socialism the more I’m convinced that it is a religion, on one side you have the moderates like the libertarian or market socialists, who abandoned most of their core tenets. On the other side you have Nazis and Marxists, who believe that society was built/corrupted by the parasites so they could parasitize/oppress of the contributors, so we need to overthrow the current society and replace it.
    2
  1548.  @hobbso8508  but it was socialist, they just used a different definition then you. Additionally the followed Marx"s dream of destroying the old oppressive society to create a new one, it just tuns out that marx's ideas don't create a free society.
    2
  1549.  @hobbso8508 so where’s the evidence?
    2
  1550.  @hobbso8508 how are you losing this?
    2
  1551. ⁠ @hobbso8508 the only way for a society to own everything collectively is through a state.
    2
  1552.  @bomination. you have an example?
    2
  1553.  @bomination. yep, and I exploited my employer heavily.
    2
  1554.  @bomination. how much money are we talking?
    2
  1555.  @JesuzPrice222 can you provide the documents where they say they lied? Or were the lies actually that American propaganda said the Nazis were capitalist in order to align with Soviet propaganda?
    2
  1556.  @ad3l547 uh, you do know they abolished private property for everyone?
    2
  1557. TIK makes it vary obvious that Nazism isn’t Marxism. You should actually watch the video.
    2
  1558. Yet monopolistic cartels only exist in industries that the government actively creates them in… If you disagree, give an example.
    2
  1559.  @rationalism_communism yeah, because he was a socialist, not a marxist.
    2
  1560. Now so?
    2
  1561.  @tristanthamm505 you don’t need universal laws, hell we don’t even have universal laws. Laws change form one state to another and if there is a conflict between two states they have a system I’m place to deal with that, so why can’t voluntary states have systems to deal deal with conflict between states?
    2
  1562.  @tristanthamm505  contracts have the backing of continuing relationships. And continuing relationships with other RDAs is vary important to RDAs, because if an RDA doesn’t use contracts to resolve issues then warfare is the only. Read the Machinery of Freedom, it covers this in detail.
    2
  1563.  @tristanthamm505  you forget that anyone can become a competing RDA, there is no such thing as a monopoly on force. Additionally there is an easy way to establish a system where that doesn’t happen, by using the old government to set the precedent. If we reduce the government to its most basic functions; that being law, courts, and defense, and make it voluntary, most people would be willing to pay for those three things. Additionally most people wouldn’t trust competitors and would rather stick to the tried and true government all else equal, so any competitor would have to do what the government does that much better. It has to be better at law, court, defense, cost, and not forcing people to pay. The last one there would be enforced by the established government, they would still rush in and save you from the oppressive organizations, for a significant fee of course. Thus these organizations could only grow to the size where they can beat the government and establish their own authority if they are honestly competing with it.
    2
  1564.  @tristanthamm505  well projecting force is also really expensive, and whatever defenses they have would be equal to the wealth that could be stolen.
    2
  1565.  @tristanthamm505  welfare is one of the easiest things to decouple form government, along with regulation. If people value it they would pay for it, if they don’t then your just wasting resources.
    2
  1566. If the current government was voluntary then the only way for other government organizations to brake the laws is for them to become stronger then the current government, and the only way for them to become stronger is if people think they do a better job then the previous government.
    2
  1567.  @FigthAGAINSTSCOIALISM but warfare is expensive, the organizations that have the most customers would be the cheapest ones, and not fighting your rivals reduces costs a lot.
    2
  1568. What are you talking about? Are you the guy who called TIK a Hitlerite?
    2
  1569.  @thetinkerfloof  there were socialists before Marx, the utopian socialists are one notable example, they didn’t believe in the class struggle. That’s a big thing because it means socialism doesn’t need the class struggle to be socialism, it also means you could add something else and it will still be socialism. TIK’s point is Hitler took the more base idea of socialism and added the race struggle, much like how Marx took the base idea and added class struggle.
    2
  1570.  @CoIntelPro23 yeah, name a socialist state with free trade unions, that’s right there is none.
    2
  1571.  @CoIntelPro23 no, but you can’t use the fact that the Nazis didn’t have free trade unions to prove they weren’t socialist.
    2
  1572.  @CoIntelPro23 exactly, so what can we use? The fact they had the biggest trade union in history, the DAF had 32 million members.
    2
  1573. ⁠ @CoIntelPro23 so, a socialist state won’t force you to be a member of its state backed union, and this union would actually represent you instead of requiring the state for its authority?
    2
  1574.  @CoIntelPro23 so where’s your homework? TIK has a video covering this exact topic.
    2
  1575. ​ @CoIntelPro23  I mean I'd rather not rewatch the video again to find the exact quotes refuting your argument.
    2
  1576.  @Gvjrapiro  Well he clearly nationalized the trade unions, created strict price controls, created bureaucracy to command the distribution of resources, and even suspended private property. All of those were Socialist economic policies at the time. The only difference is that his ideology didn’t require killing off the rich, instead they picked another group to kill off. Additionally Marx knew about Darwinism, and many of his fellow socialists were quite interested, socialism a “Scientific” ideology after all. So it makes sense that a group of socialists would continue developing the idea until they arrive at Nazism.
    2
  1577.  @Gvjrapiro  This is hilarious! Keep at it!
    2
  1578.  @Bar-Del  so what makes them right wing conservatives? Like they did help the average individual, because the average individual was a German.
    2
  1579.  @Bar-Del  I don’t consider socialism to be when the government does stuff, so I can’t consider America to be socialist. The Nazis didn’t just have social programs, they central controlled the economy for the betterment of the collective.
    2
  1580.  @Bar-Del  eh, your really underestimating how much control the Nazis had over the economy.
    2
  1581. So what did he get wrong?
    2
  1582.  @resvero8342 which is why we get rid of the state. Problem solved.
    2
  1583.  @resvero8342  well we can reduce its size till it’s doing the bare minimum, make it voluntary, and then find competitors that do everything the state does cheaper or better.
    2
  1584.  @walterbailey2950  what?
    2
  1585.  @walterbailey2950  no, I have no idea what your responding to. Like everything you said doesn’t actually apply to anything I said.
    2
  1586.  @NullParadigm  I’m vary picky on what I call socialism, it needs to. 1. Call it self socialism. 2. Not have private property rights. 3. Centrally plain the economy. 4. View history and economics though a single collectivist lens.
    2
  1587. What do you think of Utopian Socialism?
    2
  1588. Did you know that the Nazi suspended the right to private property? And is it really a private corporation when prices and wages were set by the state, the employees and employers were forced into the public union, and at the slightest sigh that you where disloyal you would replaced by a self described socialist?
    2
  1589.  @ronielaledo4521  the Reichstag Fire Decree disagrees with you, check it out and pay attention to the number 153. Also you should watch the video if you dare, it goes in depth in how you are wrong.
    2
  1590.  @ronielaledo4521  so what do you think of utopian socialism?
    2
  1591.  @FreelancerND  yeah, because the Israeli far right loves the Nazis.
    2
  1592. @stafus describe what this “permanent serving class” is? Are you sure all societies don’t have them?
    2
  1593. But it’s real fun to own people, “the Nazis privatized their industries” you have a source for that?
    2
  1594.  @HookedonChronics  yeah, they had the choice between the socialists who had ties to Moscow and the socialists who did not.
    2
  1595. Wow it’s like capitalist will bribe their way into the hands of socialist states, who would’ve guessed. It’s not like he already seized power by that point.
    2
  1596.  @hobbso8508 why would they buy it from you when they can just take it in a few months?
    2
  1597.  @nicknolte8671 and it’s also historical consensus that the Nazis were largely a grassroots movement and only got funding from capitalists in the eleventh hour.
    2
  1598. But Hitler wasn’t insane.
    2
  1599.  @cristianm7097  throughout the war he made vary sound decisions, so I don’t believe that.
    2
  1600. You should watch the video then.
    2
  1601. ⁠ @hoodvaavdooh you really should watch the video.
    2
  1602.  @classicalextremism  fortunately for me I made sure that there are no socialist mediation agencies that my rights enforcement agencies associate with. So your rights enforcement agency has to go through a capitalist mediation agency to deal with my rights enforcement agency.
    2
  1603.  @rickglorie  I’m pretty sure central planning was a socialist policy then, so are suspending private property in times of peace and taxing the rich to pay for expensive welfare programs. Additionally the claim was that Nazism was race based socialism, a distinct sub-ideology from class based socialism that was Marxism.
    2
  1604.  @rickglorie  in Nazi Germany private property rights did not exist at all since 1933, not just for the Jews but for everyone.
    2
  1605. To be a historian you have to look at the sources and consider their biases, Adam Tooze was a socialist, so his conclusion that Hitler wasn’t a socialist is suspect.
    2
  1606.  @robmoss8198  Did you watch the video? The Nazis did brake down class hierarchies and redistribute wealth. Also if killing socialists made you not one, what about Stalin or Mao, were they not socialists? I find it a lot more believable that Hitler lied to the German elites about how socialist he was, because he lied to them about literally everything else while keeping most of his promises he made to the German worker.
    2
  1607.  @robmoss8198  TIK has another video that gos in depth how Hitler really didn’t kill off all the socialists, he just forced them to become Nazis.
    2
  1608. I mean if they were socialists then forcing all socialists to become their particular brand of socialism would include themselves, and they did that.
    2
  1609.  @denniswhite4101 got to love how you drop to ad hominem when your worldview is challenged.
    2
  1610.  @alphauranium8451  socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and the free market is terrible (without computing that acentrally controlled economy is the only alternative). Both of these combined together tell us that socialists can’t be democratic. Socialists believe their system is more efficient and moral, so anyone voting against it is voting against the self interest of the collective, and any rights that works against the self interest of the collective will be taken.
    2
  1611.  @alphauranium8451  it is too, nothing you said goes against my definition.
    2
  1612.  @Dumpsteret1 so who owned these companies?
    2
  1613. How are they different?
    2
  1614.  @brandonmorel2658 so in your eyes a state cannot be socialist if it prevents stealing?
    2
  1615.  @brandonmorel2658 but they did stop the Jews from stealing the Germans surplus value, what are you talking about?
    2
  1616.  @endloesung_der_braunen_frage  I mean Marx was vary antisemitic, and many of his colleagues were experimenting with involving Darwinism into their theories.
    2
  1617.  fastrally  slavery was a byproduct of nobles colonizing America, the British themselves didn’t particularly care for it.
    2
  1618.  fastrally  that video was hilarious, try again!
    2
  1619.  @johnHofweber  but the British and most of Europe hated slavery compared to the rest of the world.
    2
  1620.  @Arnie58  true, but socialism doesn’t believe that value should dive the economy, but some mythical utility. There can be no democracy because there is an objective utility, and if anyone votes or protests against this utility they are objectively wrong and so will be ignored. You can’t use the suppression of the worker as a reason why the Nazis weren’t socialist because that’s baked into socialism as a whole.
    2
  1621. How?
    2
  1622.  @pmcomputer1  while we have fascist elements, we are definitely not fascist. We are more akin to late republic Rome.
    2
  1623. Na, I’ve been reporting blatant hate speech, so not sorry.
    2
  1624. But now it’s completely voluntary, you can go shopping for which associations are in your area and chose the one that’s best for you.
    2
  1625.  @jerryhu4763  because that’s kind of behavior is unprofitable. Not only is conflict expensive, but do to the ability to freely associate with them most people would leave and pay associations that don’t behave in a criminal manner.
    2
  1626. So jews are not Communists?
    2
  1627.  @frankmiller721 YouTube be banning my comments again, fun. But basically the definitions you provided describe fascism as being a socialist movement, you should really watch the video you’re commenting under instead of saying such ridiculous things.
    2
  1628. Dam, try watching the video first.
    2
  1629. It’s actually responsibly possible to achieve, just reduce the current government to its most basic functions, after that it should be possible to make taxation voluntary, because they would be low enough for the average person to feel comfortable paying. Like if everyone paid 500 dollars a year the government would have a budget of 165,950,000,000. That should be more then enough to defend the homeland and fund the legal system. After that organizations that do what the current government provides would pop up and offer higher quality services at lower costs. Because these organizations have to compete with the current government they automatically gain a lot of legitimacy, they can’t brake the laws of the original government without becoming big enough, and they can only become big enough if the people think they are a suitable replacement.
    2
  1630.  @executivedirector7467  there were only two industrialists/bankers that supported Hitler before he came to power, and both of them fond themselves in construction camps pretty quickly. This point was addressed in the video.
    2
  1631.  @executivedirector7467  So how do you define ownership?
    2
  1632. ​ @omarisawesome1996  when?
    2
  1633. So how exactly is he wrong?
    2
  1634.  @julymagnus493 just because his definitions flew over your head doesn’t mean he’s wrong. Was the Nazis party a public or private institution?
    2
  1635.  @julymagnus493  I personally disagree with TIKs definitions, but even by any other definition the Nazis were socialists.
    2
  1636.  @julymagnus493 what are you talking about?
    2
  1637. Could you have a voluntarily funded state that people could switch out whenever they like? https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o
    2
  1638.  @oscartang4587u3  oh, I’ve haven’t heard of it. What’s it about?
    2
  1639.  @basert1202  can you do that for marxism?
    2
  1640. The books he’s reading are the sources used by historians.
    2
  1641.  @afridge8608  how so?
    2
  1642. What are you talking about?
    2
  1643. But what is your actual production value? You say this like there is objective value, but there isn’t, value is determined based on trade.
    2
  1644. So you didn’t watch the video, thanks.
    2
  1645.  @MrCrosby.s_lunch can you provide examples of these open lies and perverted truths?
    2
  1646. But libertarian socialists aren’t the only kind of socialist.
    2
  1647.  @kapitanpufferfish5164 well considering that capitalism is not an economic system it couldn’t have killed anyone.
    2
  1648.  @kapitanpufferfish5164 tell me, what is capitalism?
    2
  1649. So what is there to research?
    2
  1650.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  he used to be a socialist before coming to this conclusion. So can you provide a definition of socialism that’s better then his? That reflects the actions of real world socialists?
    2
  1651.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  why is it impossible to there to be socialism for a race?
    2
  1652.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  so the only difference between the two ideologies is one views the world and history through a lans of class conflicts, and the other views the world and history through a lans of race conflicts. TIK actually explains this pretty well, socialism used to be a much broader term, but the Marxist version won out in the end.
    2
  1653.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  TIK actually explains this pretty well, socialism used to be a much broader term, but the Marxist version won out in the end, leading to what we have now.
    2
  1654.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  it looks like you know northing when it comes to political history.
    2
  1655.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  ​ What of the Utopian socialists?
    2
  1656.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  it is quite obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.
    2
  1657.  @memeoverlord-pz5ns have you watched the video?
    2
  1658.  @urielpolak9949 Hitler’s goal was to achieve socialism for the Germans, and that meant invading the Soviet Union. Your saying his goals didn’t align with his ideology when it’s his ideology that made his goals.
    2
  1659. How so?
    2
  1660. So your didn’t watch the video where he goes into the actions of Hitler?
    2
  1661. So markets of labor don’t exist, and can’t seen to form labor cartels? Like saying socialism is what created labor unions is really stretching it.
    2
  1662.  @hobbso8508  the concept of the products of labor only works under a labor theory of value, which has been thoroughly discredited by economists.
    2
  1663. So why would Jews support someone who is profusely anti-Jewish
    2
  1664. How so?
    2
  1665. That is just cutting away the curtain of bad dialectics.
    2
  1666.  @jovicamateric7756  I’ve spoken to half a dozen socialists here and each came up with a mutually exclusive definition that has no historical basis.
    2
  1667. And where does Nazi ideology ever say that?
    2
  1668.  @corn.3892 where did he advocate for a racial hierarchy? I’m pretty sure he wanted to make a workers hierarchy, where the best workers are at the top and those who can’t work would be exterminated.
    2
  1669.  @freemindrebel  Eh, he was a nazi, totally different ideology, both based off of socialism though.
    2
  1670.  @freemindrebel  The third reich suspended private property. I’m less sure about the fascists, but they were trade unionists.
    2
  1671.  @slaterslater5944  No clue who but the Nazi party owned them. Owning people is much more important.
    2
  1672.  @slaterslater5944  and those individuals/entities where directly under Hitlers thumb, to the point where he probably replaced them with his own men at one point or another.
    2
  1673.  @slaterslater5944  But Hitler ran multiple times without the industrialists, and it was only when he was out of money that he turned to them. When he did he toned down all his rhetoric, both his racism and his socialism. When he was brought to power he slowly ramped up his racism and his socialism again. So I find it much more believable that he lied to the industrialists to get their support and was actually a diehard socialist then the other way around.
    2
  1674.  @slaterslater5944  https://youtu.be/eCYIBpDVtP0
    2
  1675.  @funnyyellowdog8833 ​​⁠except Hitler makes it clear that once he achieves autarchy he could then create true socialism. If you read any of their words, in public or private, they say they ideologically want to do welfare. Additionally they want to go out there nationalize everything, but the people would be against that and would rebel.
    2
  1676. What are you talking about?
    2
  1677.  @gingaluvsweed  Why I’m confused is that why would that refute any of TIK’s arguments. TIK says that Fascism, Nazism, and Marxism are three distinct Socialist ideologies.
    2
  1678.  @gingaluvsweed  so what was the Nazis goals? I would like it if you could back it up with quotes.
    2
  1679.  @gingaluvsweed  well?
    2
  1680. ​ @ariesiv2790 what are you talking about?
    2
  1681. Socialism predates Marxism’s class centric socialism, so it’s quite believable that a different set of people made race centric socialism. Also liberal at the time meant free market.
    2
  1682.  @xerpenta  but Nazism was a from of scientific socialism. Many of Marx’s colleges dabbled with including the new scientific theory of Darwinism into their ideas, so it’s no wonder a race based socialism was born years later.
    2
  1683.  @xerpenta  The argument was never that it was Marxism, but it was a sister scientific socialist ideology.
    2
  1684.  @RatPfink66 so you admit you don’t know if it’s horseshit, you just assume because your a bigot.
    2
  1685.  @RatPfink66 your the one who assumes brownies are horseshit. The fact that you never seen horseshit before has never stopped you.
    2
  1686.  @pagonel uh, so what sources are you using to know what they actually accomplished?
    2
  1687.  @pagonel  so your using the words of their enemies to disprove their words? How is that doing your do diligence as a historian?
    2
  1688. Dam, you could watch his other videos on the topic…
    2
  1689. Well what did he get wrong?
    2
  1690.  @PINMEDS  Are you sure? I’m pretty sure he defines socialism on multiple occasions, though that was probably in other videos.
    2
  1691.  @hobbso8508 so by default unions cannot be nationalized, because the moment they do they become subservient to the state.
    2
  1692. Industries were made private to facilitate the economic policy of synchronization.
    2
  1693. Would the US be able to hold off invasion with a defense budget of 100 billion? If yes, then the US could defend itself if everyone paid 500$ a year. That seems like a small sum compared to the cost of being invaded, in fact people would gladly pay much more if they were being invaded.
    2
  1694. Simple, counter-violence. If you attack me the people who I hired to protect my rights will attack you. Both sides probably agree that I’m not worth dying over and so will seek mediation.
    2
  1695.  @michaelthayer5351 no one said you have to hire a rights defense agency, but most people would rather leave that to someone else so they can specialize in something else.
    2
  1696. Social organization is not the state. Otherwise anarchy itself is an incoherent ideology.
    2
  1697.  @rickglorie  nazism wasn’t marxism, that was never a claim made in this video. Marxism and Nazism are two different branches of socialism, one based around class and the other race.
    2
  1698.  @rickglorie  that comment never makes the claim either.
    2
  1699. It’s actually responsibly possible to achieve, just reduce the current government to its most basic functions, after that it should be possible to make taxation voluntary, because they would be low enough for the average person to feel comfortable paying. Like if everyone paid 500 dollars a year the government would have a budget of 165,950,000,000. That should be more then enough to defend the homeland and fund the legal system. After that organizations that do what the current government provides would pop up and offer higher quality services at lower costs. Because these organizations have to compete with the current government they automatically gain a lot of legitimacy, they can’t brake the laws of the original government without becoming big enough, and they can only become big enough if the people think they are a suitable replacement.
    2
  1700.  @Evirthewarrior  honestly the end of global trade is a side effect, such an institution benefits the rich more then the little guy, just now they will have to be the ones paying for it.
    2
  1701. Are you telling me that people wouldn’t do that if we paid them?
    2
  1702.  @surge1229  have you ever considered that the political spectrum is blatantly false and don’t describe reality?
    2
  1703.  @surge1229  That just sounds like religious thinking, there is nothing horrible or unique about this situation, they are just a different sect of your religion so you despise them. Socialism dress itself up as egalitarian, but there is no the particularly egalitarian about it. Socialism is just democracy taken to the extreme, infused with Christian views of utopia. Everything is controlled by the collective and if you go against the collective you would find yourself with nothing, if the collective deems your minority is unwanted they can exterminate you, because there are no restrictions on what they can do. Finally we humans automatically flock towards and serve authority, in the same way we automatically care for children and the weak. People will always have leaders and socialism does way with centuries of checks built up to prevent abuse.
    2
  1704.  @surge1229  what about the rich? If they couldn’t become workers would you advocate for their removal?
    2
  1705.  @surge1229  I could describe every socialist leader as a tyrant, so what makes Nazis so special that they can’t be socialist?
    2
  1706.  @afgor1088 socialists always say you have no right to say what they actually believe unless you believe in the same thing as them, sounds a lot like a religion to me.
    2
  1707.  @directAction3389 just look at the beliefs of some of those socialists that were killed in the night long knives.
    2
  1708.  @jloiben12  true, TIK was off the mark on that, but his head was in the right place. Socialism is a really backwards ideology, it asks for the removal of all the limits on government that we have made to protect ourselves from abuse, basically returning us to the rule of absolute monarchs.
    2
  1709. Or they could work together against external threats.
    2
  1710. How does that make any sense? You would only join the association if you agree to the rules.
    2
  1711.  @othersidehistory336  suspending private property is considered socialist, so is guaranteeing a job, requiring union membership, centrally dictating prices, providing subsidies to the poor for coal, wood, food, and most other basic commodities. It would be easier to ask what socialist policies did they not implement.
    2
  1712.  @othersidehistory336 TIK has a video on the DAF showing that Hitler was pro worker, every assumption being backed up by sources.
    2
  1713.  @othersidehistory336 ​⁠You really need to watch more then five minutes, he shows all the reforms and all the sources.it’s not his fault that proper historical debates take some time.
    2
  1714.  @othersidehistory336 Where’s the sources?” “Watch the video, he uses the same sources as all other historians.” Refuses to watch the video and ignores the sources. What was I expecting.
    2
  1715. ⁠ @othersidehistory336 TIK is an actual historian. He has a degree in history and understands the nuances of historical analysis. TIK is looking at historical events, and providing sources of those events. So far I’ve seen no evidence from you to support your claims, meanwhile TIK supports every claim he makes with numerous sources. Every argument here has been a fallacy, first ad hominem, then appeal to authority.
    2
  1716.  @othersidehistory336 . Nice appeal to authority, too bad it isn’t backed up by the sources. ​​⁠ 27 February 1933, reichstag fire decree abolishes private property. First socialist reform done. You want more? 9:17, Nazis end the employer employee relationship, now there are just followers and plant leaders(managers). 7:40 forced union membership. Like I said in a previous comment, TIK is using the same sources as everyone else, it’s just a different interpretation of those sources that ends up being closer to reality. Not as stupid as you. I mean what kind of pathetic imbecile tries to one up someone in something they themselves call stupid.
    2
  1717.  @othersidehistory336  Then why is socialism called socialism? Also me? Ignorant? How many socialists have you actually talked to? Also since you can’t answer my question without answering in a fallacy I have to assume I am correct. Thou it’s annoying how YouTube is deflating our comments, I had a perfect response prepared.
    2
  1718. I think it’s just YouTube hating links again. A lot of my comments were deleted, and TIK has no reason to go after me. The truth be told your arguments are really bad, TIK deleting them makes little sense, especially when he keeps up arguments that are a lot better.
    2
  1719. You will have to prove examples of when capitalism does what you say, otherwise I will have to declare that your pulling that idea out of your ass.
    2
  1720.  @TricaGamer  try me.
    2
  1721.  @TricaGamer  but he created the ideology from reading other socialist thinkers, fascism is the most blatant off shooting of another religion that anyone would tell you it was.
    2
  1722. How so?
    2
  1723.  @isgoodovsubhuman1972  yeah, but these reactionaries were implementing every policy that they were seemingly reacting against.
    2
  1724. A sham one that prosecuted more businesses owners then workers?
    2
  1725. Really? Was this before or after he joined a socialist movement?
    2
  1726. ⁠ @BurtReynolds-qp1jk both sides agree on a neutral arbitration agency before any conflicts arise. This then becomes a selling point for rights defense agencies, would you pay more to be judged by this arbitration agency that allows for capital punishment, or this arbitration agency that doesn’t?
    2
  1727.  Nicholas Time  if the Soviet Union was socialist then the Nazis were socialist.
    2
  1728. Then you will have mediators who mediate between two agency’s. These mediators will then set rules and laws. The consumer then decides which groups agencies they want based on their skill and what mediators they use. Thus law becomes a voluntary action that you consent to.
    2
  1729.  @romitkumar6272  if there are no mediators then the only option is violence, which is expensive. So the most cost effective rights defense agencies would seek out impartial mediators that both sides would be satisfied using.
    2
  1730.  @romitkumar6272 yeah, but that would apply to both sides, people would vote with their subscriptions what laws they actually want to be judged by. Basically your judged by the organizations and their laws that you believe are just.
    2
  1731.  @hobbso8508 what is a society?
    2
  1732.  @hobbso8508  great so you hate society.
    2
  1733.  @hobbso8508  you have told me that you think capitalists are stealing your labor, thus removing all capitalist would make society better.
    2
  1734.  @hobbso8508  what’s the difference? You want a class to stop existing, reeducation is your preferred method, but genocide is still allowed, ether way it’s still ending a group. Like is chinas genocide of the Uyghurs any less a genocide because they are trying to reeducate them?
    2
  1735.  @hobbso8508  kind of like how the nazis changed their business and ownership laws, am I right!
    2
  1736.  @hobbso8508  I mean, ending private property rights, controlling prices, controlling wages and hiring though the DAF, nationalizing the stock market thus controlling who can buy and sell businesses, etc.
    2
  1737.  @Harrier_DuBois so you didn’t watch the video? That literally uses those historians as sources to show how they misrepresent their own sources?
    2
  1738.  @rtmclean484  how so?
    2
  1739. Did you watch the video.
    2
  1740.  @Zakdayak  but it’s quite clear to anyone that the capitalist didn’t keep control, I mean don’t the Nazis hate the Jews?
    2
  1741.  @Zakdayak  yeah, instead they confiscated all property in the name of ariyan.
    2
  1742.  @dannyelcomunista  it there any property that you cant use for profit?
    2
  1743.  @dannyelcomunista  but I can use them for profit. I don’t need to use my car all the time, same with my phone, so is it wrong to rent it out when I’m not using it?
    2
  1744. How so? We could do it slowly.
    2
  1745. So an anti communist names his party the national socialists?
    2
  1746. You could say he was for socialism for the working race.
    2
  1747.  @cumcumson5661  they were in bed with big business the same way the Soviet Union was in bed with big business. The race ideology was racial socialism, where they dropped class conflict for race conflict.
    2
  1748. And TIK made a video more recently that covers all that.
    2
  1749.  @seanoreilly8926 when your ideology is socialism, and you try to practice socialism. I take it that you are a socialist.
    2
  1750.  @arnaudaerts1726  I’m saying that post ww2 narrative was set by Marxists and we have been regurgitating their sayings since.
    2
  1751.  @robk8463  outside of basing his socialism off of race instead of class, what makes him different.
    2
  1752.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme yep, socialism relies on twisting words to mean the opposites so much that it’s blatantly obvious when it’s actually attempted.
    2
  1753.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme  socialism always is a dishonest label, they have to twist words to justify their own existence to themselves.
    2
  1754.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme  well because socialists need to twist words so much that socialism itself means the opposite of what it actually is. The Nazis did exactly what socialism actually is, while at the same time twisting it to mean the opposite.
    2
  1755.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme ell your right about him being not economically motivated, he was politicly motivated to create a socialist state. Remember that Marx was one of the first people to introduce economics into the debate of socialism, and Hitler rejected Marx’s economic and cass based socialism.
    2
  1756.  @hobbso8508 emocracy means people’s power. Thus any country that derives its right to rule form the power of the people is a democracy. Voting is not required for a country to say it derives its right to rule form the people.
    2
  1757.  @hobbso8508  not true, a monarchy could claim its right to rule from god, while still having elections on public matters. It wouldn’t be a democracy but would give power to the people.
    2
  1758. A kidnapper on the lose is a danger to everyone, so an investigation would happen ether way, and now you will have a few companies coming to you to so they can prosecute the villain.
    2
  1759. https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o
    2
  1760. Rival powers, remember that the capitalists and aristocrats didn’t have the power over the masses that other socialist ideologies had, and how did Hitler get to power? Via the masses.
    2
  1761. And the fire department could charge extra after the fact. Like the do I’m some places in the world.
    2
  1762.  @droe2570  there are many places in the world with private fire departments, and they work by offering a small subscription, if you weren’t subscribed and they would bill you for the expenses.
    2
  1763.  @droe2570  on average 20% of the population will always pay into it and 20% will always not, the remaining 60% will do what they see everyone else doing. If you want to defeat the free rider problem all you have to do is make it in the best interests for more then half of the population to follow it. One easy way is to have set prices for a collective, this uses the same forces behind pyramid schemes, the more people you get to pay, the less you individually have to pay. Thus all members of society are trying to get each other to pay which tips the balance.
    2
  1764.  @droe2570  uh, these stats are general gamership, gathered when their was no negative outcome for not complying. Basically scientists did exactly what you said for the coffee shop. The reason my voluntary state would work is because free riders and payers both have the incentive to get other people to pay, so on average 40% of the population is telling you to pay into the system, and if your part of the 60% of the population you will go with the flow.
    2
  1765. Did you watch the video?
    2
  1766.  @Dumpsteret1 ​​⁠​⁠​⁠so how did you miss the section covering big business? 20:00
    2
  1767.  @jajajjajjaajjaa how so?
    2
  1768.  @janno288 he makes it clear that socialism isn’t workers ownership of the means of production, that would be communism. If you don’t understand his definitions, how can you argue against them? Like watch me. Amazon is a publicly traded company, but it isn’t publicly owned, this is where TIK gets wrong.
    2
  1769.  @Admiral-General_Aladeen  I mean socialists sure think it’s fine.
    2
  1770. How so?
    2
  1771. Did you actually watch the video?
    2
  1772.  @cyranotu  the problem with that is you then have to assume that no one in power actually believed in the ideology, which is obviously not true otherwise they wouldn’t have done what they did. We kind of have to take them at face value otherwise we have to invent their motivations from the aether.
    2
  1773.  @jacavanheesch4593  what does it mean to be a historian?
    2
  1774.  @jacavanheesch4593  ​ while I disagree with TIK’s assessment that the Nazis were left leaning, they were definitely socialist. The truth is TIK is more of a historian then any of his proponents, he doesn’t care about historical consensus, he just looks at the sources and figures out how theirs biases distort what they are saying. The prime example is his take on the Vampire Economy, a contemporary source that concludes that the Nazis weren’t socialist, turns out that the author was a socialist and if you read the book what Nazis did lines up one to one with socialism, so it’s obvious that the author’s conclusions were biassed.
    2
  1775. So there would still be a government. It couldn’t be called anarcho-communism.
    2
  1776.  @brandonmorel2658 not really.
    2
  1777. I mean you’re completely wrong, but sure.
    2
  1778. What do you think about Utopian Socialism? That existed before Marxism and it didn’t believe in the workers controlling the means of production.
    2
  1779.  @brett22bt  True, I would still consider Fascism and Nazism to be far-right ideologies dispute their socialism.
    2
  1780.  @brett22bt  So Stalin's purges also exempt him from being socialist? TIK also made a video explaining how corporations have a symbiotic relationship with socialists.
    2
  1781. What are you a honest to god racist pinko?
    2
  1782.  @hobbso8508 ideologically they are nothing similar, mechanically they share some definite features. Honestly the whole social justice movement was driven almost entirely by economic factors, and if they changed then you would see the west rapidly backpedal on a lot of these issues.
    2
  1783.  @hobbso8508 everything that the left has been successful at pushing had an economic benefit for them, and the places they failed had an economic benefit for the right.
    2
  1784. Now so?
    2
  1785. ​ @wtfyomom easy to debunk, yet he can't.
    2
  1786.  @belthesheep3550 the answer to that is to create a legitimized law and defense corporations that fulfill the same role as government.
    2
  1787. How is he?
    2
  1788.  @olliestudio45  It’s actually responsibly possible to achieve, just reduce the current government to its most basic functions, after that it should be possible to make taxation voluntary, because they would be low enough for the average person to feel comfortable paying. Like if everyone paid 500 dollars a year the government would have a budget of 165,950,000,000. That should be more then enough to defend the homeland and fund the legal system. After that organizations that do what the current government provides would pop up and offer higher quality services at lower costs. Because these organizations have to compete with the current government they automatically gain a lot of legitimacy, they can’t brake the laws of the original government without becoming big enough, and they can only become big enough if the people think they are a suitable replacement.
    2
  1789. ⁠ @JavierSanchez-zj6su No single person is responsible for all these things. Your statement sounds a lot like creationism, if god didn’t create all of that then who did?
    2
  1790.  @JavierSanchez-zj6su  well compared to what? All other systems of production have equal or greater issues. Communism, or the sharing of goods communally tends to brake down once the number of individuals is greater then the number of relationships one can have. Socialism, or central planning for the good of the collective brakes down because it cannot properly calculate value.
    2
  1791.  @JavierSanchez-zj6su  Then what makes communism different form socialism? And you can’t predict what I’m going to eat for breakfast, so how will you know what the people actually value?
    2
  1792.  @rickglorie  you tell him brother!
    2
  1793.  @PantheraKitty  because he wasn’t a true socialist?
    2
  1794.  @PantheraKitty  it’s doubtable that Hitler cared a thing about traditional moral values.
    2
  1795. https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o
    2
  1796. The Imperator Knight.
    2
  1797. ⁠ @Jenseduca watch out, your describing the Soviets.
    2
  1798.  @Imbalanxd  they suspended private property laws in 1933. It was legal for the state to steal, but not for anyone else.
    2
  1799. How so?
    2
  1800.  @rtmclean484  you should watch the video then.
    2
  1801. His entire belief structure, when someone builds a Christian cult do you have to ask if he was Christian?
    2
  1802.  @donaldhysa4836 I mean say we got into a disagreement about who owned a house, we call up our rights defense agencies to back us up. Our rights defense agencies really don’t want to fight each other because that’s expensive, so they go to a previously agreed upon mediator. Both of us agreed to be judged by this mediator when we paid our rights defense agencies. This way if you don’t want to be judged in certain ways you can find rights defense agencies that don’t use mediators that have certain laws. If the laws you want to be judged under are unpopular then it would be hard to find rights defense agencies that use mediators have those laws. Thus laws are written biased on how much different people actually what to be under those laws.
    2
  1803. ⁠ @donaldhysa4836  Would you call having to keep a promise coercion? Didn’t you agree to that contract? If you feel like that contract was unfair you could go to court with an impartial mediator. I would hardly call it coercion to have to follow a contract you agreed to.
    2
  1804.  @donaldhysa4836 coercion is not having a choice, so when you have a choice where and how you can’t have a choice it’s not coercion.
    2
  1805.  @donaldhysa4836 you have the choice to even create the contract and the rules that you live by. You get to choose the law. Edit, can’t reply, YouTube is having a hissy fit.
    2
  1806. You don’t seem to understand how markets work…
    2
  1807.  @hobbso8508  that’s sounds like every other attempted execution of socialism I’ve seen. Honestly the big reason why socialism always end up like this is because it believes in the false assumption of objective value. Because socialists believe there is one objective value of everything and they will remove any other “false” values. You the worker might value things differently, you might believe your labor is worth more, but if the collective doesn’t believe that your screwed.
    2
  1808.  @kapitanpufferfish5164 socialism is not the democratization of the workplace, otherwise it would not be called socialism.
    2
  1809.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  socialism is the ideology of social engineering, that humans are naturally good and it’s the society that corrupts them, and if we destroyed all of the corrupting influences then we could create a society where we all live in harmony. Marxism said the capitalist is the corrupting influence, nazism said the Jew is the corrupting influence.
    2
  1810.  @hobbso8508 TIK has a video debunking the claim that the DAF was a fake union, often the workers councils had more say on how the company was run then the owners did.
    2
  1811.  @hobbso8508 the state appointed the Union leaders from the employees.
    2
  1812. Got to love how you miss the point.
    2
  1813.  @alexanderangelo7284 my boy, did you actually watch the video?
    2
  1814.  @alexanderangelo7284  I’m just wondering why you are talking about stuff that’s clearly addressed in the video.
    2
  1815.  @alexanderangelo7284  did you actually watch the video?
    2
  1816.  @andyknowles772 is socialism the state control of the means of production?
    2
  1817.  @andyknowles772  the problem is democracy will never be a perfect representation of the peoples will, because the minority will always be left out. If socialism allowed for the workers to privately own the means of production, with the community having the final say in how it was used, then congratulations, that’s exactly what the Nazis did.
    2
  1818.  @bilboj1  odd, he seems to be quoting primary sources.
    2
  1819. ⁠ @vancecookcobain but fascists were socialists. Like any study in their origin would show you that.
    2
  1820. I mean price commissars, nationalizing the trade unions, suspending private property. It’s beginning to look a lot like socialism.
    2
  1821.  @PerunaMuayThai  is funny because you say sources on the one history YouTuber who actually uses those. Also isn’t it standard for socialists to kill off all rival socialists?
    2
  1822.  @PerunaMuayThai is it really privately owned when the Nazis party choses who is employed, what they are paid, how much they can make, for what price they can sell and can switch out whoever is in charge with a loyal party member? Also forced employment? This was the Great Depression, getting a job was a good thing. The workers loved Hitler because he improved working conditions and wages so much that the reduction in liberty was worth it.
    2
  1823.  @PerunaMuayThai  sources?
    2
  1824.  @PerunaMuayThai  Do you have sources for any of your claims, because I do, they’re in TIK’s videos.
    2
  1825.  @PerunaMuayThai That’s why TIK made these series of videos, he knows History is never settled. After looking at the sources he came to the conclusion that the experts at the time were wrong and were clouded by their own bias because the world wars were so recent. Like there was a major shift on the reporting of the Nazis and fascists from before the war and after it. Additionally you can’t trust their rivals just as much as you can’t trust them. The fact that TIK is challenging preconceived opinions is the point of history, because history lives in the debate.
    2
  1826.  @PascalSWE  that’s only because the Marxist definition won out in the end. Back then there was many forms of socialism all competing with each other, and because they were competing they hated each other’s guts.
    2
  1827. There was a similar petition of several hundred capitalists who were against such a thing…
    2
  1828. @barsukascoolI’m pretty sure it was talked about in the video, that you didn’t watch.
    2
  1829. So capitalism in crisis chooses a ideology created by socialists, that claims it is socialist, and that enacts the primary socialist policies? Also Marx didn’t invent socialism, he just made class socialism.
    2
  1830.  @ben5154  so standard practice for socialists at the time.
    2
  1831. Socialists like killing other socialists, nothing new.
    2
  1832. @hellothere6399 socialism isn’t egalitarian and it rarely cares for human rights. The only rights it cares for is for its in group, be that the working class or working race.
    2
  1833. Dam did you watch the video?
    2
  1834. No, he made the link by studying their economic policies, this is just the next step.
    2
  1835.  @jrton1366  no, I’m talking about the link between marxism and nazism. He didn’t make that jump from exploring the occult roots of nazism, he made it by studying the ideology and polities of the Nazis and comparing it to the ideology and policies of Marxism. The occult stuff just explains why these ideologies are self contradictory messes.
    2
  1836. So watch the 20 minute version…
    2
  1837.  @SunsetSecondary but the proletariat never ran the government in any of these socialist states
    2
  1838.  @slaterslater5944  I mean why hasn't he erased all of your bullshit?
    2
  1839. So just because our modern definitions are different means the Nazis can’t call themselves socialist without lying?
    2
  1840.  @BILISenjans  but it is useful for explaining how the Nazi ideology actually works. Look at what people believed socialism to be at that time, nazism took too many ideas that are excessive to socialism to be truly independent. Basically TIK is saying that socialism used to be a vary diverse ideology and only one brach survived, like how early Christianity used to be vary diverse religion, but only one brach survived of that.
    2
  1841. Most forms of socialism advocated for the awakening of the collective consensus, something that the fascists and Nazis both tried to do.
    2
  1842.  @hobbso8508  ​ I’m a libertarian but even I know that universally applied force is the only way to generate large scale consensus. I mean the concept of intellectual property didn’t exist 200 years ago, and now it’s nearly universally agreed upon.
    2
  1843. Did you watch the video?
    2
  1844. Wow, it’s like you don’t even watch the video. The points in those videos have been addressed.
    2
  1845.  @observing8686  the Nazi crushing the unions, the Nazis getting support from America.
    2
  1846.  @jon82489  all of them, like you just listed a bunch in your own post. Nationalist isn’t incompatible with socialism, and private property was a wartime measure.
    2
  1847. How so?
    2
  1848. Yeah, so what was it?
    2
  1849.  @plv.d.4079 where did the Nazis ever say this was their ideology? Or are you making it up for them?
    2
  1850.  @plv.d.4079 the same way it was central to Marxism…
    2
  1851.  @plv.d.4079 and your confusing Nazism to Hitlerism. Try again.
    2
  1852.  SIPHAKID  use-value is the reason why all socialist states are authoritarian. Everyone values things differently, including the workers, so when someone tells them that their wages are based on utility and they disagree they will strike, but the socialist state doesn’t believe in value and so will force their utility wage upon the worker.
    2
  1853.  @randomuser3481  na, they were in the process of expropriating all business before the end, sending in the workers and brown shirts to seize the records and look for discrepancies for how many years back it took to bankrupt the business in fines.
    2
  1854.  @horatiopelagius8703  and there has never been a Christian country. You know that WW1 started partly because Germany was afraid Russia was going to overtake them, Russia was going to grow with or without Socialism.
    2
  1855.  @horatiopelagius8703  that could be said for most countries and most of them didn’t become communist, in fact Russia was in the process of liberalizing before the revolution and the economic growth then was equal to what we would see later. Thus Germany’s fears and the war.
    2
  1856.  @dIRECTOR259 how would that happen?
    2
  1857.  @erisdiscordia5429  actually the fascists didn’t care about Darwinism, that was the Nazis. You could become a fascist just by giving up your old nationality and giving everything to the Italian state.
    2
  1858.  @erisdiscordia5429  why? Doesn’t Social Darwinism insinuate it’s socialist nature in it’s vary name? Can you point to any place where the Italian fascists said anything about Social Darwinism? I’m pretty sure that’s a Nazi exclusive thing.
    2
  1859.  @erisdiscordia5429  what are you even talking about? Everything you said so far agrees with what I was saying. So I don’t get why you are calling me an idiot? Like the fascists didn’t have a problem with your race, they were just ultranationalist, and your race might distract you from that. It was the Nazis that were raciest and antisemitic, and it wasn’t until after the Nazis occupied Italy that the Jews there were prosecuted.
    2
  1860.  @MarxinRios  simply because das kapital and other such works aren’t meant to educate. Those books are meant to act as litmus tests, if your onboard with the ideology you would understand them, but if you’re not then you won’t.
    2
  1861.  @MarxinRios true, but TIK has, you just can’t imagine someone reading the book and deciding it is bogus.
    2
  1862.  @MarxinRios have you seen any of his other videos? He regularly quotes from it and other books written by marx, it would be hard to do that without reading it first.
    2
  1863.  @MarxinRios  honestly you keep on stipulating that he hadn’t read it without any proof that he didn’t. All it looks like to me is that you can’t believe someone would read the holy book and not believe.
    2
  1864.  @Progress_or_Barbarism yeah, members of the ruling party, care to explain how they were different?
    2
  1865.  @lukedaniels7750 you have the video right here.
    2
  1866. ⁠ @lukedaniels7750 those are primary sources. Your per reviewed work is based off of them.
    2
  1867. Right wing is a meaningless term
    2
  1868.  @charliemoore2551 so, does the definition not include all of historical societies that are not the present one?
    2
  1869. ⁠ @charliemoore2551 so how do your describe Rome? Or ancient China? Or the Catholic Church? Like each of these things has varying different ideas.
    2
  1870. How so?
    2
  1871. If the ancap system is corrupt it can’t be any worse then the system we have now.
    2
  1872.  @Aioradeleo27 are you sure, 50$ a month sounds worth a law system and national defense. https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o
    2
  1873.  @titanicisshit1647  because I can always go to my brothers and say let’s start our own Rights Defense Agency, there is no state to stop me.
    2
  1874.  @titanicisshit1647  an RDA is the people you call when someone wrongs you and you can’t deal with it yourself, basically the police. Example, you caught your neighbor stealing your TV on a security camera so you call up your RDA and give them the evidence, they will then march up to your neighbors house and demand him to give it back, oh and fifty bucks for the trouble. Your neighbor of course calls up his RDA and tells them that he is about to be attacked by your RDA, so they march up and then there is a standoff. All four people don’t want to actually fight though, you and your neighbor don’t want your property to be damaged and would probably sue, and the two RDAs don’t want to fight because that would cost them tons of money in equipment, damages, and hazard pay. So the RDAs go to a predetermined fair mediator who will judge the case. Part of the predetermined agreement is that whoever side loses would backdown.
    2
  1875.  @titanicisshit1647  yes there would be a private database that the owners would charge RDAs to access. All the issues you have can be answered by asking, “ok how can I make money off of this issue?”
    2
  1876.  @titanicisshit1647  I fail to see how that’s relevant. They don’t make money off of it because they are using the service directly and they have infinite money to maintain the service.
    2
  1877.  @captain-chair  I think your responses are quite excellent, hopefully TIK responds sometime.
    2
  1878.  @sharky7002 what are you talking about? He is abundantly clear that socialism isn’t fascism but that fascism is socialism.
    2
  1879.  @nicknolte8671 hmmm did you actually watch the video?
    2
  1880.  @KnownNiche1999  both 1 and 2 are answered in the first paragraph, if we can force the government to become voluntary it creates the culture for voluntary governments, any organization that comes after would need to uphold that same culture otherwise people wouldn’t switch to it. If the culture does change then their is nothing any government can do about it.
    2
  1881.  @KnownNiche1999  eh, then how does our current system do any better?
    2
  1882.  @KnownNiche1999 I’m expecting them to be corrupt, it’s just that the rich would be subsidizing everyone else’s RDAs, additionally warfare is expensive, and even if you “win” you had to spend more money then you will ever gain in return. Basically warfare is a negative sum game, while almost every other form of economic activity is positive sum. So they have the economic interests in not waging war.
    2
  1883.  @KnownNiche1999  but how does one get the resources necessary to invade an area in the first place? The population of the land will fight back, all they have to do is make it more expensive to control them then you get out of it. Additionally everyone around that area would also fight back, you have just shown yourself to be willing to attack and oppress people so assisting the invaded population against you is in their own best interests. So any invader would have to fight off the warfare capability of a much larger area then the area they are occupying, thus they will always have to spend more resources then they will eventually get out of it, because the occupied area and anyone else who feels threatened by you will always be resisting you.
    2
  1884.  @KnownNiche1999  but I just described how it would never pay off, if any mercenary company goes rogue then everyone who is or feels threatened by them would pay to end the threat, this attracts a ton of mercenary companies who then figure out the most economically efficient way to end them. The oppressors used to be a mercenary company so most of the soldiers are there to get paid, so all you have to do is run their coffers dry, keep them spending lots of money while also preventing them from stealing from the population.
    2
  1885.  @KnownNiche1999  there’s a really simple way to deal with all of that, make the current government have voluntary taxation and let other organizations compete for its job, the only way for any organization to grow to the size where they can’t be punished by the government for being bad actors is if they can get the support of the people by being better at everything the government does, including having voluntary payment, letting other organizations compete, and punishing bad actors.
    2
  1886.  @KnownNiche1999  the government only wants to expand and grow its own power, so anyone who fights against the expansion of the government is ignorant child in your eyes?
    2
  1887.  @KnownNiche1999  this is a better state, one that’s voluntary, one that doesn’t have a claim on your wealth just because you were born in an area. The rich and powerful have a huge impact on the society, law would be determined by how much the population would be willing to pay be under it vs how much they would be will to pay to not be under it. The rich would obviously would have a huge impact on this because they would be willing to pay so much more. The thing is they would be subsidizing RDAs for everyone else, they would pay RDAs who would have to then bribe all the RDAs of the common people to agree to using their laws, and this bribe has to be bigger then what those RDAs could make if they used laws their customers likes more, thus making the common persons RDA cheaper. I would recommend reading The Machinery of Freedom. It covers how a ancap society would function and the biggest unsolved problems of ancap society, most importantly how to fund defense.
    2
  1888.  @KnownNiche1999  your also telling millions of people to grow up because a state will never reduce its own size. My concepts are just an extension of reducing the size of the state. Once a state has been reduced to its most basic functions, that being law and defense, then debates would start happening on if we should go further. Are you telling me that one of the most widely held beliefs of the right is a childish fantasy?
    2
  1889.  @rtmclean484  what are your talking about?
    2
  1890.  @LeeZaslofsky did you even watch the video?
    2
  1891.  @LeeZaslofsky  you do understand that nazism believes that the aryan is the worker, right? Like that’s was the basis for the persecution of the Jews, because the Nazis believed that jews were always capitalists and could never be workers. How is that not socialism?
    2
  1892.  @purrcatharsis is the farmer coercing me when he demands payment for his labor?
    2
  1893. Nothing was privately owned, so I fail to see how it was capitalist.
    2
  1894.  @hobbso8508  who coined it? The guy who hated privatization and so mischaracterized the Nazis economic policy to make it look like they had a private property?
    2
  1895.  @nl3064 so why did you need to specify right-wing when you already said everything that included right-wing? Basically right-wing is a worthless concept that be used to describe anything, that fact that you do use it showcases your inability to overcome propaganda.
    2
  1896. I mean he was a socialist before he realized Hitler was a socialist, all the definitions he uses are definitions used by socialists.
    2
  1897. Read the machinery of freedom, all your questions are answered there.
    2
  1898. So what exactly did he get wrong?
    2
  1899.  @nicknolte8671 but his arguments in general are against socialism.
    2
  1900.  @LeeZaslofsky  the Nazis did not wage war against the socialists as seen in the statistics. When they were at war with the Jews they killed millions, when they were at war with the socialists they only killed a few thousand. Additionally most socialist regimes kill off their political competition, which by that point is other socialists like what happened to the mensheviks. Were the Bolsheviks right wing then? Basically your entire argument here relies on the idea that socialists don’t kill socialists all the time and call them not true socialists. In fact the west didn’t understand socialist infighting which contributed to the misunderstanding. The truth is socialism is a sudo-religion with a bunch of different sects that all hate each other, Marx himself said that democratic socialism is not real socialism, so to him Nazism is just as real socialism as democratic socialism.
    2
  1901.  @LeeZaslofsky  I love how you wallow in ignorance. Everything you talked about is addressed in this video. If you would just watch you wouldn’t have to spend hours writing up comments that are completely wrong. Like one of his small sources is the surprising number modern right wing nationalists who claim to be socialists. You can find tons of them in this vary comment section, calling out that Hitler was right in his socialism and making themselves a nuisance.
    2
  1902.  @LeeZaslofsky  your logic is just as bad, if everyone saw through it, then why make the change, and why keep it? Additionally didn’t almost every other socialist county do the exact same thing? Smashing the private trade unions, banning strikes and other political parties, working with capitalists, and “serving” the workers in just the same way? I would ask you to watch the video before you make the judgment that Hitler wasn’t a socialist.
    2
  1903.  @LeeZaslofsky  I’m starting to think your TIK himself, continually saying the most absurd shit just to get more viewer engagement. I’m not saying TIK is right, but you say you figured out it right away without actually addressing any of the arguments in the video.
    2
  1904.  @LeeZaslofsky  how about the refutation of the privatization myth? Or how only two capitalists actually supported hitler before it looked like he would win, after that it was everyone trying to hedge their bets. Or how the Nazis has the largest trade union in the world at the time. Or how they had social benefits equal to that of other socialist states at the time. Or how their Arryn race myth was a restructuring of the working class myth. Etc. As for the points you “addressed” TIK shows sources contending you. And no I’m not going to pull up those sources for your convenience, nor I’m I going to transcribe all arguments found in this video. I’m not spending hours doing work that you should do yourself. I’m not going to continue arguing here, so if you respond without watching the video all the way through then I’m going to assume that your afraid your arguments cannot withstand scrutiny and so can remain affirm in my beliefs. If you watch the video I will still not respond, but I will question my beliefs.
    2
  1905. Who’s pro fascist?
    2
  1906. The problem with that is that you have to assume that everyone didn’t actually believe in it. Additionally you have to forget everything they said about hating communists as well.
    2
  1907. Yep, and Marxism was created by a jew(Marx) to divide the working people and keep then subservient.
    2
  1908.  @D.S.handle  yes, but bureaucracy doesn’t need the state.
    2
  1909.  @alphana7055  that’s the marvels of the free market, you don’t need to track everything, instead you do it on an individual level.
    2
  1910.  @alphana7055 because both defense agencies agreed on submitting to the mediators decision so they don’t have to fight each other.
    2
  1911.  @alphana7055  well you can do things yourself, but there’s a reason we have police. How do we know all judges are not bribed? A mediators whole job is to be someone both parties can trust, taking bribes is the kind of thing that makes people not hire them. Defense agencies would regularly try to bribe judges just to see who not to work with.
    2
  1912.  @alphana7055  the police are the rights defense agencies. People pay them to protect their rights. If there is ever a conflict between two people over who’s rights supersede who’s they will ask for a mediator.
    2
  1913.  @alphana7055 they could, nothing stopping them. Thus is the glory of ancapistan.
    2
  1914. How so?
    2
  1915.  @drdeadred851 not if the president is set for the opposite to happen.
    2
  1916. Dam, you should watch TIK’s video on why Hitler had to start the war when he did.
    2
  1917. Before their rise to power?
    2
  1918.  @hobbso8508  so what countries are market socialists?
    2
  1919.  @hobbso8508  worker cooperatives are compatible with free markets to the point where most people don’t even consider them socialism.
    2
  1920.  @hobbso8508  yea, but no one considers them to be socialism.
    2
  1921.  @hobbso8508  my deformed definition if the one most people use.
    2
  1922.  @hobbso8508  a another word for Syndicalist.
    2
  1923.  @opanike87  you missed the part where Nazis Germany took control of the means of production before the war. Additionally why where socialists in the party to be killed in the night of the long knives if Nazis didn’t believe anything close to socialism?
    2
  1924. When the culture is inherently toxic I would rather not.
    2
  1925. Dam, so why do leftists constantly advocate for the expa of hierarchies?
    2
  1926.  @deivicalter1529 where does this idea that the Nazis wanted to create a racial hierarchy come from? I don’t see it anywhere in their writings.
    2
  1927.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk monopolies have serious pressure to stop existing in the free market, because if they are profitable they will attract investment to that field, which then creates more competition.
    2
  1928.  @syourke3  so the Soviet Union was capitalist? Don’t that basically completely destroy use of the definition? I can’t except TIK’s definition of public because it would make every country ever socialist, and I can’t except your definition of capitalism because it would make every country ever capitalist.
    2
  1929.  @syourke3  the problem with that is how do you prove that the workers have control over the means of production?
    2
  1930.  @syourke3  so socialism can only exist when you have strong property laws?
    2
  1931.  @jotarokujo5132 what bald weirdo are you talking about, considering that TIK is an actual historian.
    2
  1932.  @randomuser3481  you will have to argue with the utopian socialists then.
    2
  1933.  @randomuser3481  heh, so the Nazis were socialist for their time, they are just all dead now so can’t be socialist.
    2
  1934.  @randomuser3481  they weren’t, in fact most socialists praised the Nazi and Fascist economies for their degree of central planning and welfare programs.
    2
  1935. Hitler hated the aristocracy.
    2
  1936.  @michelbuckley5532  it was a choose between the socialists who answered to Moscow and the socialists who didn’t. And guess who was the only group who even attempted to assassinate Hitler.
    2
  1937.  @michelbuckley5532  but it always was the second choice for them, they would’ve loved to do it themselves, but they had no public support. They choose Hitler because he was more alined with their goals and Hitler lied to them personally about his antisemitism to get them on his side.
    2
  1938.  @michelbuckley5532  that begs the question of why where there socialists in their party at all.
    2
  1939.  @michelbuckley5532  that begs the question why there was a socialist wing.
    2
  1940. I mean, when you suspend private property rights first thing, and then use the lack of property rights to centrally plan the economy, I think it is pretty socialist.
    2
  1941.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  worker coops and market socialists are either libertarians or state capitalists. Socialism is always democratic, but it’s rarely liberal democracy, elections are a right just like private property, and you know how socialists view those kinds of rights.
    2
  1942. ⁠ @kapitanpufferfish5164 from the research I did market socialists believe all businesses should be owned by the government, but the prices are determined through supply and demand. So basically the state owns the capital. If you believe society should be organized into worker coops without any government influence, then your a libertarian with a liking to worker coops. Capitalism is not an economic system, nor is it a political system, it’s a made up word to discredit liberals what really doesn’t mean anything, no one is making a system of capitalism, capitalism is just really effective in a free market and is why all modern societies who attempt socialism end up as authoritarian.
    2
  1943. What do they say about the privatization myth?
    2
  1944. The intent you ascribe to the Nazis is just conjure, there is no evidence for it. On the other hand Hitler has written at length about how the war was just a tool to achieve the autarchy that was needed to have a socialist economy.
    2
  1945.  @rosbif4960  That don’t refute anything I said, in fact that supports it. Hitler’s end goal was socialism, all the war stuff was just what was required to achieve autarky, and once autarky was achieved he could then fully implement socialism. That didn’t prevent him from socializing the German people or economy, it just meant that he didn’t have enough time to do it entirely. Every socialist at the time hated degenerates and the feeble, they were parasites upon the rest of the collective and so needed to be exterminated. The fact that you’re saying Hitler supported eugenics supports the idea he was socialist.
    2
  1946.  @rosbif4960  you disagree, but you have no arguments. The narrative you petal is flawed and can’t explain the actions of one of the the worst war criminals of all time.
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  1947. I read what you believe, and it’s obviously false. The intent you ascribed is false. It’s like asking your average conservative what they think communism is. Technically true because it’s what they did, but blatantly wrong on what the intents actually are.
    2
  1948.  @CountryFriedCracka  you got to the point where he explains the differences between fascism, nazism, and Marxism?
    2
  1949. @Van Brighouse It just turns out a lot of Marxist historians don’t read the sources. Any historian who pushes the Nazi privatization myth hasn’t read the sources.
    2
  1950. You could say that for any socialism…
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  1951.  @alphana7055  socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and the free market is terrible (and a centrally controlled economy is more efficient). Both of these combined together tell us that socialists can’t be democratic. Socialists believe their system is more efficient and moral, so anyone voting against it is voting against the self interest of the collective, and any rights that works against the self interest of the collective will be taken.
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  1952. ⁠ @Admiral-General_Aladeen  got to love your ignorance. They abolished private property in 1933, it was still illegal for the average person to steal, but not for the government. The Nazis also claimed to be democratic, using the same logic as the Soviets. And finally what do you think about the concept of the socialist businessman?
    2
  1953.  @Admiral-General_Aladeen  ​​⁠​⁠ Read the reichstag fire decree. The article in the German constitution guaranteeing and stipulating how the government could confiscate private property was suspended. I don’t know where your getting the idea that they made new rules allowing them to take property. And if you believe that the Nazis were socialist, then by default all members are socialists. The second argument is nonsense.
    2
  1954. More like he shifted his view slightly, before he was a nazi he believed that other forms of socialism were capitalist plots to keep the workers divided.
    2
  1955. ⁠@Vesta_the_Lesseryeah, but what do communists think social democracy is but a tool to placate the working class and keep them from uniting under socialism? Oh his actions? You mean the totalitarian government he created? How is that not social control over the economy, aka socialism?
    2
  1956. Any actual arguments?
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  1957.  @katyn_was_based14 so he uses the historical definitions you know, the ones used at the time of the Nazis, and yet he’s changing them.
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  1958.  @katyn_was_based14 replace race with class and you will have Marxism…
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  1959.  @michaelwebb1071 if I’m not mistaken, the German monarchy supported Lenin and gave him funding, did that make him monarchist? But capitalists didn’t control those companies, Nazis did, take a look at all the share holders and board of directors, and you will see Nazis.
    2
  1960.  @hobbso8508 do you really think they represent us? Studies have been done that show the exact opposite. No mater how much people want any puticuler policy or law, there is a 30% chance of it passing. Literally no one wants a law, 30%. Literally everyone wants a law, 30%.
    2
  1961.  @thomashjensen1556  you bring up organizations that have no effective mediation and who don’t have to worry about customers leaving them if the prices get to high.
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  1962.  @johnschmidt1262  how did the Soviet Union organize their industry?
    2
  1963. No, its more like training animal, an animal that is not properly trained is dangerous to the community.
    2
  1964. A large reason money was invented was because of the population explosion from the agricultural revolution.
    2
  1965.  @sandro9237  tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  1966.  @JS-el3zm actually hie definition was basically marxism but if you replaced class with race.
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  1967.  @JS-el3zm  You know how Marx said that capitalists use various ideologies and religions to divide the working class to keep the them subservient? Well Hitler flipped that to race, the working class was the German people and the capitalist was the Jew, and because Marx was a Jew it confirmed his idea that the Jews were building ideologies to divide the Germans. The truth is Hitler built his ideology while he was in prison, both eugenics and Marxism were vary popular in Germany, so he read up on a bunch of works for both things and combined them together. The eugenics stuff gave him a racial view of history and the world, so he modified marxism to match that view. Also: 1. The Nazis suspended private property in 1933. 2. The Nazis created one of the largest labor unions ever, you should actually watch the video. 3. Every socialist country has purged other socialists, so the Nazis doing it doesn’t exempt them from being socialist.
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  1968.  @Cloud_Seeker uh, how were you forced to agree to their terms? Edit, can’t reply, YouTube is having a hissy fit.
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  1969. The socialist belief in utility over value basically forces them to adopt authoritarian bureaucracies.
    2
  1970. The Nazis were the people.
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  1971. 6:09
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  1972. How do you abolish private enterprise and the accumulation of wealth?
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  1973. So the Nazis were not a totalitarian regime?
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  1974.  @pegacorn13 ​​⁠you do understand that all socialists claim to be the one true socialism, something that Hitler himself also did. ​​⁠​ Socialism is a religion, one of the big things about being a part of a religion is saying your a part of the religion, so that’s one of the primary qualifiers, second is the belief structure, Socialists believe the free market is wild and inefficient and that a centrally planned economy can tame the realm of human interaction, and they believe the benefit of the collective always supersedes the rights of the individual, so killing off the parasites is actively encouraged. The thing is without the free market you cannot accurately identify who the parasites actually are, so they target other groups like the capitalist or the Jews.
    2
  1975.  @265005  was responding to the other person.
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  1976. @hellothere6399how so?
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  1977. Did you watch until the point where he said “But is this really the case?”
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  1978.  @okaythankyoubyeee2501  That’s disingenuous, you have to acknowledge the existence of the other side of the argument before you can deconstruct it. TIK does this all the time, where he presents the opponent’s argument before deconstructing it and showing it’s flaws.
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  1979. So you have any actual arguments?
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  1980.  @Communism_Inc._official simple, the Nazis believed in a permanent revolution, aka that communism couldn’t sustain itself and needed socialism to continually enforce it.
    2
  1981.  @hobbso8508 did you watch the video?
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  1982.  @hobbso8508 so you ignore the events presented though the book Hitler’s Beneficiaries?
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  1983. ⁠ @hobbso8508 so you ignore what they did and instead just rely on your feelings of what they did.
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  1984.  @hobbso8508 wow it’s like you don’t know what your talking about when it comes to political spectrums. Please actually do some research on how the right-left spectrum was created and transformed over time.
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  1985.  @hobbso8508 oh wow, it’s not like the Soviet Union defined everyone else as right wing and the allies picked that up show solidarity. Now you have several generations of Nazis who were taught that the Nazis were right wing, not because anyone actually studied their ideology, but because they just ran off of WW2 propaganda.
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  1986. ⁠ @hobbso8508 oh wow it’s almost like the left-right spectrum is completely arbitrary, like libertarians are left wing under your definition of personal freedom. The truth is the current left-right divided is over the old European elite structure vs the new European elite structure.
    2
  1987. ⁠ @hobbso8508 wow it’s almost like libertarians are for human rights.
    2
  1988.  @hobbso8508 how so exactly? What about the right to your labor?
    2
  1989.  @hobbso8508 do you have a right to my time and labor? Do you believe that your right supersedes my right?
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  1990.  @hobbso8508  Why aren’t you letting homeless people live at your house you greedy capitalist!
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  1991.  @hobbso8508  Nice for you to admit that your for state control of the economy. Capitalism: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit. Private owners can include groups of people collectively owning something privately from everyone else.
    2
  1992.  @hobbso8508 in order for your “human rights” to be met by the government they have to have control over every aspect of the economy. Or you could let your “human rights” be met by the free market without the government needing to step in. And worker cooperatives are private ownership in the same way publicly traded companies are private ownership.
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  1993.  @hobbso8508 you have a source for the claim that free markets are incapable of fulfilling the needs of human rights? And do you have a source for the claim that socialist markets can provide all things to all people? Additionally free markets don’t care about your business model, “capitalist” socialist, commonly owned. Private property allows any group of people to own things collectively as long as they don’t infringe on the rights private property rights of non-consenting individuals.
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  1994.  @hobbso8508 so you can easily show sources, right?
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  1995.  @hobbso8508 how exactly does that prove your point? The state fails and somehow it’s free markets fault when it wasn’t expected to help?
    2
  1996. You turn to another association that you find more agreeable?
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  1997. But this was well before he was an agent for the military.
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  1998. Why not?
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  1999.  @V555Vendetta  you do know what liberal meant back then don’t you?
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  2000.  @V555Vendetta  so you don’t know about his social revolution? That’s one of their primary goals. The vary first thing they did was enact a social revolution, they just never got around to the nationalization part of socialism.
    2
  2001. Did you actually watch the video? All of this was addressed.
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  2002. Well that child probably is protected by a rights enforcement agency who will be coming to deal with you.
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  2003. Completely incorrect, if we are being forced to pay someone for something we don’t want then we probably would be willing to pay that much and a bit more to have them removed. Thus a non-coercive group can remove a coercive one.
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  2004. Try again.
    2
  2005. Now so?
    2
  2006. Bad take.
    2
  2007. What’s wrong with private protection agencies?
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  2008.  @kylebrink9347 but why will they compete with bullets? That’s vary expensive, wouldn’t it be smarter to deal with conflict though mediation? Plus who’s paying them to compete with bullets? If we ever see rights protection agencies it would be after they show they are better at doing what the government current government does.
    2
  2009. It’s more like cross pollination.
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  2010. So Stalin wasn’t socialist?
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  2011. How so?
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  2012.  @miketomlin6040 Hitler’s policies and actions set him as a socialist, as seen in this video. Also TIK is a historian, a pretty good one at that.
    2
  2013.  @heinrichpreussen  all you have to do to be a historian is to study history, and he studies it much better then most people. And online forums are just as reputable as a YouTube video.
    2
  2014.  @miketomlin6040 the Nazis had a 90% income tax for people who made over 200000 reichsmarks, and this was just one of many taxes including an wealth tax. The money from these taxes went to the war and the extensive welfare programs, including subsidizing household food, coal, medical care, and so much more.
    2
  2015.  @miketomlin6040 I can’t find any source for that, additionally the Nazis created limits on how much profit one could make. Unfortunately both of us are probably wrong because we don’t have any good sources here.
    2
  2016. Taxes, if you want you can pay someone who you think is doing whatever the government does better.
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  2017. Hitler considered himself a socialist, not a communist. If you actually watched the video you would understand that. Additionally private individuals in the state party? Are you sure you know what your taking about?
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  2018. But Germany never paid for the treaty of Versailles, that was largely an excuse.
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  2019. Yeah, this is one of his older videos on the topic ment to persuade Nazis of the socialist nature of their ideology.
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  2020. What are you talking about?
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  2021. Read the machinery of freedom, all your questions are answered there.
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  2022.  @michael-vl1mn socialism doesn’t need democracy, all it needs is social ownership of the means of production. Basically all he has taken out of context is your own subjective views on what socialism is. That isn’t out of context, that is “he has a different opinion than me and so is wrong.”
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  2023. Nobody wants there to be suddenly no government, instead we should reduce the government to its most basic functions and make it voluntary, after that point if an organization can to what the government does but better people would switch to that.
    2
  2024.  @youarenotme01  humm, YouTube really doesn’t like my comments right now.
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  2025.  @trago034 from what I understand, TIK was your standard WW2 historian, but over time he found the narrative that the Nazis were capitalists not capable of explaining the Nazis actions, so he started actually reading the Nazis and fascists literature to figure out what made them tick. And when you read that you quickly come to realize they they thought of themselves as socialists.
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  2026. Well did you actually watch the video?
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  2027.  @artemalexandrovich6183  how much evidence does it take to make something become objective?
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  2028. So how does that video address what’s in this one?
    2
  2029. Did you watch the video?
    2
  2030.  @mrsleep237 well socialists sure are bigots.
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  2031. I’m not sure about him, but Hitler sure did.
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  2032.  fastrally  yes, didn’t Stalin do the exact same thing?
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  2033.  fastrally  then want happened to the mensheviks?
    2
  2034.  fastrally  so socialists kill other socialists when the other socialists resist the current socialist rule. Sounds like what the Nazis did.
    2
  2035.  fastrally ​ ​Yeah you see that the Nazis didn’t hate bolshevism, it was the Judeo part that set them off.
    2
  2036.  fastrally  if you look at their propaganda it was mainly antisemitism, and the anti-bolshevism was just a reflection of that. “Oh, the Bolsheviks are controlled by the Jews.” And “We would have peace if it wasn’t for the Jews.”
    2
  2037. I mean he is saying the nazis are socialists.
    2
  2038. ⁠ @hobbso8508  and TIK believes fascism was also a form of socialism, so I don’t know what point your trying to make. In his view nazism might’ve originally been fascism, but it had closer ties to Marxism and diverged enough to be its own ideology.
    2
  2039.  @hobbso8508  what doesn’t make sense about what I said? He says it himself, Fascism, Nazism, and Marxism are distinct socialist ideologies. Additionally he doesn’t believe that North Korea is a democracy, he was showing how authoritarian dictatorships rationalize that they are democracies without elections.
    2
  2040.  @hobbso8508  socialism is about centrally controlling tools and resources for the equal benefit of all members of society. Marxists believed that the working class where the contributors to the collective and that capitalists where parasites that only took from the collective. Nazis believed that that the aryan race where the contributors to the collective and that Jews where parasites that only took from the collective.
    2
  2041. ⁠ @hobbso8508  except for the parasites, those who don’t contribute to society are not a part of it. Why do marxists want to seize the means of production?
    2
  2042.  @starpergaming2688  they quite literally suspended the right, if you call private property no being allowed to steal things, then congrats! even the Soviet Union had private property.
    2
  2043. A wartime economy equals nationalizing the stock exchange?
    2
  2044. ​ @steinanderson considering I can see the comment right now... You just have no actual arguments.
    2
  2045.  @steinanderson do you have a source for that?
    2
  2046.  @steinanderson how where they privatized exactly? The main source I see people use says they privatized many industries, mainly into organizations within the Nazi party, a party who you know, was the state. TIK simply pointed out that was the dictionary definition of nationalization.
    2
  2047.  @steinanderson  1. But if you say you’re socialist and then do socialist things… 2. They started this years before war. And America, even during wartime, never took the same lengths. 3. Why does Krupp owning his business after the Nazis were removed from power, say anything about what the Nazis believed or did? To me it looks like the allies thought the ownership in name only was real. Private ownership was a farce, they had no rights to their property, only the will of Hitler let them have it. 4. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist? 5. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist? Who did he promise to quell the workers to? Did he make this promise before or after he came to power? 6. This is exactly what the Nazis did when they “privatized” things. And then they nationalized the stock exchange, thereby nationalizing the stocks they sold off. Care to quote those sources?
    2
  2048. ​ @steinanderson So socialist nations do X, and they say they do X because they are socialist. Then the Nazis do X and they say they do X because they are socialist. Did Krupp actually control the business? Remember, this was a "war economy", where private property rights didn't exist. Saying the Nazis weren't socialist because of their organizational structure would then disqualify the Soviet Union from being socialist. TIK directly addresses the argument of capitalists funding the naizs into power in another video. Turns out a historian in the 80s decided to ask if that was actually the case, and his book German Business and the Rise of Hitler, has largely changed the consensus to, no they did not, the nazi party was largely a grassroots organization. It was only after they came to power that capitalists tried to pay them off. So nationalizing the trade unions was obviously a part of his plan long before he ever colluded with capitalists. How does one own a stock when they can't trade it or sell it? When the profits were nationalized? When the government owned the controlling share?
    2
  2049.  @the1beard  you haven’t actually read Marx have you.
    2
  2050.  @jarrodf_  none of those things are particularly against socialism. Extreme right wing nationalist concerns? What does that even mean? The intense radical zealotry is just a transformation of the intense Marxist class zealotry. They didn’t protect private property, and what you say is protection of private property is identical to how every socialist country behaves. Not only do socialist love killing each other, the Nazis believed Marxism was a ploy by the business elites to control workers, exactly what you believe about them, it’s no wonder they hated their rivals. And you should read Hitler’s beneficiaries. It covers how the Nazis implemented basically every traditional socialist case, but only for the German.
    2
  2051.  @jloiben12  can you make a definition of socialism that includes every socialist country?
    2
  2052.  @jloiben12  So there has never been a Christian country, obviously. You see why I can’t respect socialists, if you can’t make a definition that reflects the actions of real world socialists, the I will. If you don’t like how my definition sets the Nazis to be socialist then give me something.
    2
  2053. If you can define socialism to be anything you want, then I can define Christianity to be anything I want. If you have a problem with that then give me a definition for socialism that accounts for the actions of real world socialist countries.
    2
  2054.  @jloiben12  there has never been a Christian country, prove me wrong.
    2
  2055. So you don’t watch the video…
    2
  2056. ​ @billmitchell2080 uh its just YouTube being a butt. I can see both comments. Can you tell me exactly how its historical revisionism?
    2
  2057.  @billmitchell2080 Marx was not the founder of socialism, in fact Hitler states that Marxism is a Jewish prevention of “real socialism”, with the goal of keeping the Jews on top, allowing them to exploit the working races even more.
    2
  2058. ⁠​⁠ @hobbso8508 no, I put it in quotations because “real socialism” doesn’t exist and can never exist. He looked to the old pre-feudal Germanic tribes as inspiration, just like how socialists at the time looked at pre-feudal tribes and called them communist.
    2
  2059.  @hobbso8508 and is what socialists are trying to create look anything like the primitive communism they say they are based off of?
    2
  2060.  @PantheraKitty  “keeping markets” vary much doubt, was there a market for steel? For wood? For paper? If resources are being dictated by a central entity then there is no market.
    2
  2061.  @slaterslater5944  the argument wasn’t that they made profits, but that they didn’t own the thing. Profits is just a side effect of authoritative control that comes with ownership, if you can tell people what they can do with something, you can tell them to pay you to use that thing. It turns out that the Nazis cared less about the profits then the control, and it looks like profits where used as a way to reward loyalty. Ifyou are loyal to us you can have the profits, your just going to use them to support us anyways. On the shares being private property, that’s one thing I disagree with TIK on, so I don’t CARE.
    2
  2062.  @PantheraKitty  how do you have competition when prices and wages are dictated by the government?
    2
  2063. ⁠ @hobbso8508 but it wasn’t private property at that point…
    2
  2064.  @hobbso8508 how was it in any way private?
    2
  2065. He goes into it in more depth in his 5 hour video, it was simply a little to complex to go over here.
    2
  2066.  @brandonmorel2658 ​​⁠​⁠corporatized and subordinated it to the wills of the party is centrally organizing the economy. What are you talking about? Nothing about socialism says anything about men being born equal, the primary goal of socialism is social welfare, the welfare of the collective. Hitler believing that eugenics was required for the welfare of the collective doesn’t make him any less of a socialist.
    2
  2067.  @brandonmorel2658 what a way to be wrong about everything you said.
    2
  2068.  @brandonmorel2658  my boy, your comparing Nazis Germany to a hypothetical standard instead of real world examples. Under your own definition the Soviet Union also couldn’t be socialist because it rejected egalitarianism and suspended workers right to protest.
    2
  2069.  @brandonmorel2658 ​​⁠ha, scientific consensus on what socialism is? What in the world are you talking about? Socialism is a ideology, science has nothing to do with it, that would be like saying the scientific consensus of what Christianity is. Japan wasn’t even fascist, it had no ideology comparable besides late colonialism. What in the world is this “reactionary hierarchy” nonsense your talking about? Can’t you see that nazism is about ending the morality reprehensible and ineffective social and economic hierarchies of capitalism with the inherently democratic and egalitarian state of affairs that is a centrally planned economy by the state for it’s people. Nazism is a merging of socialism and eugenics, where the state manages the social, economic, and racial health of its people for the benefit of society. To say that the Soviet Union was socialist for purging threats to the workers, you then couldn’t disqualify Nazi Germany for doing the same thing. Honestly it looks like you have fallen for ww2 and Cold War propaganda, where simple us vs them mentalities were created and propped up by our governments and education system with little regard for their accuracy. Like you constantly reference how this has been the consensus historically backs up this point, as the right-left dichotomy as we know it today was created by the Soviet Union when they defined everyone else as right wing during ww2 for political purposes, and then when the Cold War started America adopted that mentality and redefined right wing to be freedom and left wing to be oppression, also for political reasons. So no I don’t respect your “historical consensus” as your historical consensus was built off of a highly distorted view of the world.
    2
  2070. Dam, it was almost like the Nazi’s socialism failed first. And most of the people in the axis powers were not fighting the Soviets. The Japanese weren’t and a large amount of the occupied population is from them.
    2
  2071.  @wasneeplus  what evidence do you have of your first point? Because that just sounds like subjective conjure.
    2
  2072.  @bucketiii7581 my boy you have made no arguments, there is nothing to reply to that hasn’t already been addressed.
    2
  2073.  @Niclaas1999 you do know that Hitler was against capitalism, same with Mussolini. Both of the ideologies believed in a state controlled economy.
    2
  2074. Let me ask you. Did you watch the video?
    2
  2075. This is countered by the fact that everyone else would’ve chosen if not for Hitler were also “fascists”.
    2
  2076.  @suruxstrawde8322 so every socialist nation was actually fascist? Na man.
    2
  2077. It’s actually responsibly possible to achieve, just reduce the current government to its most basic functions, after that it should be possible to make taxation voluntary, because they would be low enough for the average person to feel comfortable paying. Like if everyone paid 500 dollars a year the government would have a budget of 165,950,000,000. That should be more then enough to defend the homeland and fund the legal system. After that organizations that do what the current government provides would pop up and offer higher quality services at lower costs. Because these organizations have to compete with the current government they automatically gain a lot of legitimacy, they can’t brake the laws of the original government without becoming big enough, and they can only become big enough if the people think they are a suitable replacement.
    2
  2078.  @alphana7055  if he read it you will still say he didn’t. Your falling for exactly what he talked about, your have the knowledge and he doesn’t, the knowledge is your ideology which you have fallen for that can’t be criticized otherwise you don’t know.
    2
  2079.  @gorkri9215 how so exactly? If they really were as anti-communist as you say where are the millions of dead German socialists?
    2
  2080.  @gorkri9215 and how is that different from what any other socialists were doing?
    2
  2081. I mean if you know what socialism is then it becomes quite obvious. Socialism is not the democratization of the workplace.
    2
  2082. I mean, that is the historical consensus.
    2
  2083.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk in the Soviet Union you couldn’t strike or take collective action, was their union not a union as well?
    2
  2084.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk suspending private property. Creating a central plained economy. Creating a extensive welfare system.
    2
  2085.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  have your read the reichstag fire decree? It clearly states that private property rights are suspended. They had a centrally planned economy, you had to get a certificate of need to purchase any and all resources, and to get that certificate you had to go through dozens of government organizations including the local DAF council.
    2
  2086.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  it’s the reason all socialist states ban strikes, because they are socialist and if you protesting them you must be anti-socialist.
    2
  2087.  @RexImperatorArnab because those polices costed money they didn’t have. So they kept on taking money from the people, but that was unsustainable so they had to attack their neighbors to get more money.
    2
  2088. ⁠ @Ichabod_Jericho  Marx really started the whole classism thing, but like you said socialism was older then Marx, and it was never the democratization of the workplace. The labor theory of value is completely incorrect and can’t be used to dictate an economy, and it’s only though that theory that capitalists can take my labor.
    2
  2089.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  no, but who’s paying me for my labor of creating the company?
    2
  2090.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  but they didn’t generate that value, I did. Like they could dig holes all day and not create any value, it takes work to figure out where to dig holes so that they actually add value.
    2
  2091.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  yep, both are necessary parts of digging coal. Basically labor is just one of many things that creates value. So you can’t really claim that your employer is stealing value of your labor because labor isn’t the only source of value.
    2
  2092.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  yep, and that’s the kind of explanation society needs. Because if he is paying more then then he’s getting that shows that the social apparatus he created to extract coal consumes more resources then it adds to society. As an example, a employee who makes 10$/year and only spends 9$/year adds 1 dollar to society a year. He creates more then he destroys. This is all what profit is.
    2
  2093.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  social apparatus is the organization of people, they can form naturally or artificially and are required for a lot of this stuff, organizing people is hard and that’s one of the major things employers provide. No, their labor only creates a small part of the value. I’ve shown that multiple times now. The kid isn’t be being exploited is that’s what he agreed to, of course I think he could ask for more, but he as to be smart. My final point was about the nature of profit. Profit is just showing that you create more value then you consume.
    2
  2094.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  how do you calculate the value added? Exploitation is the act of using something for your benefit. You exploit your soil to grow food, the employer exploits workers to create products.
    2
  2095.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  reading the definition, turns out any form of work is exploitation. Now how do you calculate value?
    2
  2096.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk would I be stealing my customers labor if I grew apples and charged 30 ¢ more then the cost it took to produce the apples?
    2
  2097.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  yep, an how I look at it is labor is exploitation. Thus the capitalist is using his labor to use your labor to accomplish a task.
    2
  2098.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  so he had to do the work of finding those people and putting setting them to their jobs.
    2
  2099. Just like every socialist state ever.
    2
  2100.  @Nn-3 odd, isn’t that exactly that Marxists believe capitalists are doing?
    2
  2101. Maybe watch the video…
    2
  2102.  @michaelwebb1071 what bankers?
    2
  2103. How so?
    2
  2104.  @diegogbox  that’s what claim of control means, you have a claim on how it can be controlled, the authority to dictate how it is used. In your example you still have ownership because of your claim of control supersedes theirs and you can remove them. Under Nazi Germany you couldn’t remove them, without first consulting a government official who then could give you permission to do so if they see it fit. In nazi Germany you couldn’t own anything.
    2
  2105.  @diegogbox  and what did the “owner” have authority over, what could they control about their enterprises?
    2
  2106.  @diegogbox  so the economy underwent the socialist policy of synchronization.
    2
  2107.  @diegogbox  A question. If a church controlled the government and in order to own a business you to join it, fallow its teachings, and obey the word of its pope, would you call that a privately owned business?
    2
  2108.  @diegogbox  it was mentioned in the VIDEO, you really didn’t watch it?
    2
  2109.  @Mr.Witness  https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o
    2
  2110.  @hobbso8508  and what they wrote was essentially. socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and a centrally controlled economy is more efficient and can achieve the first.
    2
  2111.  @hobbso8508  and the many share the same view, have you actually read any socialist works?
    2
  2112.  @hobbso8508  Hitler and Stalin took away the right to vote for the same reason they took away the right to private property, they believed that those rights only existed if they benefited the workers, and they believed their policies to be best for the workers, so anyone voting against them soddenly doesn’t have the right to.
    2
  2113.  @Harrier_DuBois how are they wrong?
    2
  2114.  @hobbso8508  there are negative and positive rights, negative rights are things you can do until someone stops you, positive rights are things that you can’t do until someone allows you. Your really letting your ignorance shine here. People have a negative right to live, to speak, to have property, to travel, to seek happiness, to vote, etc. No ones obligated to give them these things, but the government cannot take them away.
    2
  2115.  @hobbso8508  food is a negative right, despite the fact that you need it just as much. Turns out that making things into positive rights makes them scarcer.
    2
  2116. State capitalism is when a state behaves like a business. It has nothing to do with capitalism. Hitler allowed business to make profits, because he owned those businesses and could tell the owners what they could do with those profits.
    2
  2117.  @hobbso8508 if the Wikipedia definition is wrong, you should go argue with them, not me.
    2
  2118.  @russchadwell why would he say anything like that when he was socialist himself?
    2
  2119.  @russchadwell sure because he was a Socialist not a Marxist.
    2
  2120.  @russchadwell yeah, he was a national socialist, of course he hated other branches of socialism.
    2
  2121. Can you provide some of the things that were addressed?
    2
  2122.  @purrcatharsis  I tried a while back, getting about halfway through, and each debunking was ether verifiably wrong or already addressed.
    2
  2123. Yeah, you say that because you reject the idea that the Nazis were socialists.
    2
  2124. socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and the free market is terrible (without computing that acentrally controlled economy is the only alternative). Both of these combined together tell us that socialists can’t be democratic. Socialists believe their system is more efficient and moral, so anyone voting against it is voting against the self interest of the collective, and any rights that works against the self interest of the collective will be taken.
    2
  2125.  @vishalpatkar6819 so I was right? My definition fits socialism to a T.
    2
  2126. So Cuba isn’t socialist?
    2
  2127.  @kelvinnkat so why isn’t it just called workplace democracy?
    2
  2128.  @kelvinnkat so what Fascism had.
    2
  2129. ⁠ @kelvinnkat uh why can’t democracy be hierarchical? Republics use this and are still considered democracies. How Italian Fascism ran its economy was to put all businesses and unions into large corporations, witch operated like government ministries that ran particular industries, but where the leadership was elected by its members instead of being appointed by a higher ranking official. Thus they could describe the foundations of their government from coming from the will of the people.
    2
  2130.  @kelvinnkat at that point even Marx’s dream of communism wouldn’t be socialism, because everyone’s voice is so insignificant that trying to make it heard is pointless.
    2
  2131.  @kelvinnkat but socialism isn’t about workers, that would be what marxism added. prior to Marx socialism didn’t specify workers as the collective that would control the means of production.
    2
  2132.  @kelvinnkat true, but we still consider many old Christian faiths Christian, even though they are different from what people commonly believe is Christian today.
    2
  2133.  @kelvinnkat  but that’s not how religions and ideologies evolve. The only reason we say Christians are what we say thy are today is because they exterminated/discredited other branches of Christianity. Same thing with socialism, the only reason we say socialism doesn’t include race theory is because class based socialists beat race based socialists during ww2.
    2
  2134.  @kelvinnkat so when was it established that socialism was about removing hierarchy?
    2
  2135. You should know that most socialist movements where anti-egalitarian.
    2
  2136.  @Gvjrapiro my boy, just reading your comments is hilarious.
    2
  2137.  @hobbso8508  Marx believed in objective value, and objective value is antithetical to democracy.
    2
  2138. Not really, imagine if the government reduced itself to its most basic functions, and so becoming adorable for the average person to voluntarily pay into. Because defense is a basic function other counties wouldn’t invade. After a while other organizations would pop up providing the same thing as the previous government, but for cheeper or with higher quality. The previous government and these new organizations don’t really want to fight each other because that costs a lot, and that additional cost would be transferred to the average buyer.
    2
  2139.  @hobbso8508 do you have any evidence to back up your claims?
    2
  2140.  @hobbso8508 how exactly was that private ownership?
    2
  2141.  @hobbso8508 wow, it’s like the Americans took the worthless documents of ownership at face value and gave those people their property.
    2
  2142.  @hobbso8508 worthless under the regime who created them. It wasn’t like they were planning on them suddenly becoming worthwhile. It’s like a a regent being being made king because the colonizers didn’t want to put in the work of figuring out how the system actually worked.
    2
  2143.  @hobbso8508 what did legal ownership actually allow them to do? Could they sell the business?
    2
  2144.  @hobbso8508 and also what every socialist leader has done.
    2
  2145.  @hobbso8508 no, every socialist leader took from the profits and avoided labor.
    2
  2146.  @hobbso8508 I don’t know what to tell you, but that’s never the case.
    2
  2147.  @hobbso8508 so no socialist movement ever was socialist?
    2
  2148.  @hobbso8508 so no but once a socialist movement comes to power it instantly becomes non-socialist under your definition.
    2
  2149.  @hobbso8508 so the Nazis were socialist until they took power. Nice.
    2
  2150.  @hobbso8508 they were socialist in the same way that Stalin was socialist, witch is all that really matters in the end. No one will take you seriously if you say Stalin wasn’t socialist. Like you already are abandoning collective ownership for common ownership which makes you a communist, witch is its own sub category of socialism. Marx and most other socialists say it themselves that Communism is the end goal where all property is own commonly, while socialism is the state ownership of means of production. Nazism never claimed to be communist, nor did it ever claim that it was seeking communism.
    2
  2151.  @hobbso8508 yet every socialist state abandoned common ownership almost immediately, turns out common ownership can only work in a capitalist state.
    2
  2152.  @roflol100  most socialists in Germany ether stepped out of politics or joined the Nazi party, only a few were killed.
    2
  2153. You should watch the video.
    2
  2154.  @Mr.Witness we don’t have to throw it away though, imagine that the organizations that replace the current government have to first outcompete a voluntary version.
    2
  2155.  @Mr.Witness  the second one. If a new state starts within America it won’t be able to have its own laws unless it surpasses the current government, and the only way it can surpasses the current government is if people like it more then the previous one.
    2
  2156.  @Mr.Witness not just that, but they also initiate violations of my rights.
    2
  2157.  @Mr.Witness it’s the same way Abortion or the Death Penalty could be sold on the market of law. One thing we can now for certain is that privately run organizations are more effective the publicly run organizations, so privately written law would be written far better then publicly written law.
    2
  2158.  @Mr.Witness  there’s a vary simple way to establish rules of conduct, use the old government. If we can reduce the government to law, courts, defense and make taxation voluntary then people would pay for those things, and the only way for a competitor to outstrip the well established government is to do everything the established government does better.
    2
  2159.  @Mr.Witness  i completely agree there. Slavery corrupts and distorts societies around itself forcing them to stagnate. Rome would’ve industrialized if it didn’t practice slavery.
    2
  2160. How so?
    2
  2161.  @JuvianTV  considering that every claim is backed out by a source, I’ll say it’s pretty accurate.
    2
  2162.  @JuvianTV  considering that most of your arguments rely on your ability to read his mind, you haven’t said anything.
    2
  2163. How so?
    2
  2164. Stop being an ignorant fool
    2
  2165.  @Ichabod_Jericho  by brother your not helping.
    2
  2166. What do you mean fastest moving economy?
    2
  2167. Uh, how do you have ownership when private property was suspended?
    2
  2168.  @Dumpsteret1 uh the Rickstang fire decree, 1933?
    2
  2169.  @Jenseduca in what way?
    1
  2170. Each and every one of your points is wrong. Socialism is just the collective controlling the economy. Marxists believe that the collective should be the workers, while the Nazis believed the collective should be the Germans.
    1
  2171.  @hobbso8508  and the workers never controlled the economy in Russia. I don’t care if you say that the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist, by all historical references it was, and if it was then the Nazis also have to be socialist.
    1
  2172.  @hobbso8508  what about socialism that believes that utility should determine what’s done in the economy, not of personal value?
    1
  2173.  @hobbso8508  and Nazism has nothing to do with self proclaimed Nazi states.
    1
  2174.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  the only way for these agencies to outcompete the current government is to protect private property better then the current government. Whatever the government does to establish property rights would be copied and improved upon.
    1
  2175. Socialism predates Marxism, so is it too hard to believe that Nazism was from a branch of socialism that divided society by race instead of class?
    1
  2176.  @Landon.Trotsky  the problem your dealing with is the sources don’t back up your claims.
    1
  2177.  @andreoliveira6371  socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their negative rights for the positive rights of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and a centrally controlled economy is more efficient and can achieve the first. Both of these combined together tell us that socialists can’t be democratic. Socialists believe their system is more efficient and moral, so anyone voting against it is voting against the self interest of the collective, and any negative rights that works against the self interest of the collective will be taken.
    1
  2178.  @hobbso8508  this is an easy one for you, show me an example of a monopoly that was harmful to its consumers and employees that wasn’t propped up the by state.
    1
  2179.  @hobbso8508  even at its peak, it had lower prices then its competitors thus not exploiting its consumers, and before anti-monopoly policies were put in place it was already losing a large part of its market share. Try again.
    1
  2180. But that completely ignores how market cycles actually work...​ @lorisperfetto6021 
    1
  2181. That’s why their economic policy was synchronization.
    1
  2182. How would it achieve a monopoly though? Edit: Can’t reply, YouTube is having a hissy fit.
    1
  2183.  @TomislavPuklin-wz1bl but how does one win in this game? Waging war costs lots of money, costs that would be transferred to the customer. If the costs become too much customers would switch to cheeper alternatives. No, if an Ancap state forms it’s because everyone thinks it that no other state can do any better.
    1
  2184.  @TomislavPuklin-wz1bl exactly, this is why you won’t see warlords. If any of these companies does start oppressing its customers then they would pay more to a another company to intervene.
    1
  2185.  @redblaze8700 I ask the question because they ignore basic points from the video.
    1
  2186.  @restrictionmars4288 I mean you have any actual arguments other then “Un uh your definition is wrong.
    1
  2187. But it just gos to show that falsehood that we are thought, the Nazis didn’t purge the communists first thing when taking power.
    1
  2188.  @Nickshady2254  I would say you need to read a book, the communist manifesto to be precise. Socialism then was just as antisemitic as Nazism.
    1
  2189.  @Nickshady2254  honestly there is only one thing that the axis powers all shared, and that was their late colonialism. Half of Italian Jews were members of the Italian fascist party. The fascists don’t care about care wither you were black, white, rich or poor, as long as you are devoted to the nation. A lot like socialism, just on a different axis. Nazism on the other hand is a lot more nasty because instead of being based off of class or nation, it socializes things based on race, and you can’t change your race. I wouldn’t call Japan fascist, like I said above, the only thing they shared with the rest of the axis was the late colonialism. I’m not familiar with the Spanish fascists, so if you have any interesting to say I would love to hear it.
    1
  2190.  @Nickshady2254  and most of the socialists actually joined the Nazi party or left politics, the idea that the Nazis removed the socialist parts of their party don’t account for the massive influx of socialists after the night of the long knives. The Jews went unmolested in Italy until the Nazis basically occupied them. What socialists polities didn’t the Nazis or fascists adopt? Or more importantly if they were reactionary’s, why did they adopt basically every policy they were seemingly reacting to?
    1
  2191. That’s used so others can’t take what he says out of context.
    1
  2192. Your misunderstanding what ancaps call coercion. If you agreed to a contract you should be upheld to that contract.
    1
  2193.  @alphana7055  he did not, the redistribution of wealth was purely because he believed in the labor theory of value and saw capitalists as parasites on society, so removing the capitalist was purely a act of economics.
    1
  2194.  @hobbso8508 so, socialism believes in the right for individuals to own capital?
    1
  2195.  @hobbso8508 but what about ownership of non-possessions? Like if ownership was just possession then there is no point in calling it ownership.
    1
  2196.  @hobbso8508 well I’m not a fan of copyright, information not being rivalrous and all, but normal property makes a lot of sense, someone has to chose what’s done with it after all.
    1
  2197. ⁠ @hobbso8508 well one can just withhold the information until they get paid for the development plus profits. So IP laws were never necessary for people to be motivated to create. Yeah, but Marx hates private ownership of the means of production, yet someone needs to control those things.
    1
  2198.  @hobbso8508 then you make them sign an NDA before sharing the information with them. Really you could use crowdfunding, make the public pay you now instead of at distribution. If your not well known enough you could probably piggyback off of someone else’s popularity, they just sign an NDA and check out your work, if they think it’s good they can crowdfund it for you for a cut in the profits.
    1
  2199. If that’s a problem, check out the 20 minute version.
    1
  2200. Have any actual arguments?
    1
  2201.  @Voidmutant what misinformation exactly?
    1
  2202.  @redblaze8700 yep, Hitler himself said why socialize property and business when you can socialize people. Once everyone in your country is socialist then they will willingly give up private property and work together.
    1
  2203.  @porteal8986  It was the one used at the time, so let’s judge them by their own definitions.
    1
  2204. And your sourcing Wikipedia. We have evidence of Hitler toning down his antisemitism around those industrialists to not put them off, so is it really hard to believe that he actually was actually worker friendly but had to pretend not to to get the support of the industrialists?
    1
  2205.  @arildborgen4586  What are you talking about, my example was about how he had to put on a face in front of the industrialists, we all know he is an antisemite, but why put up a face in front of the people he actually aligned with?
    1
  2206.  @arildborgen4586  Well let’s look at Hitler himself, he believed in the stab in the back theory, a theory that stipulates that the German leadership/industrialists/Jews forced Germany to surrender to enrich themselves. So who is he going to side with, the common German worker who were just trying to make ends meet, or the rich industrialists who forced his beloved country to surrender. There is also the fact that he ran multiple times without the backing of the industrialists, and it was only when he was out of money did he turn to the industrialists. To get them to work for him he had to tone down his rhetoric, a rhetoric he quickly returned to once he took power. All and all it’s more believable that he lied to the industrialists then it is that he lied to the workers.
    1
  2207.  @sky_professor3051  it’s really looking like socialists countries like crushing trade unions.
    1
  2208.  @sky_professor3051  But absorbing them into a single sate run union, only socialists do that.
    1
  2209. So you didn't watch the video?
    1
  2210. No, but they are similar.
    1
  2211.  @laughingwho7290  socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and the free market is terrible (and a centrally controlled economy is more efficient). Both of these combined together tell us that socialists can’t be democratic. Socialists believe their system is more efficient and moral, so anyone voting against it is voting against the self interest of the collective, and any rights that works against the self interest of the collective will be taken.
    1
  2212.  @laughingwho7290  socialist logic is quite literally bogus as seen in this video. Can you give me any examples of socialism that doesn’t believe rights are privileges?
    1
  2213. What?
    1
  2214. Dam, so after he got into power?
    1
  2215.  @Hollow-u8t  I’m not familiar with Franco’s fascists, what where their social policies?
    1
  2216.  @Hollow-u8t  Marxism is socialism, but socialism isn’t Marxism. How did Mussolini condemn socialism? From what I understand they say that the workers are just too broad a group to unite people under and that the class consensus could never be achieved do to so many competing viewpoints, so they proposed that people should be united by nationality and for a national consensus to awakened.
    1
  2217. Dam the Marxists true to subvert the name of socialism just like the Nazis did.
    1
  2218.  @cezarstefanseghjucan  how does something become the exploitation of the working class?
    1
  2219. Tell me you didn't watch the video without telling me you didn't watch the video.
    1
  2220. Not really, if he did as you say he also wouldn’t be as racist as he was. The rich elites didn’t like Hitlers antisemitism, so if he really was buddy’s with them the holocaust wouldn’t have happened.
    1
  2221. What evidence do you have for the tendency for companies to become monopolies?
    1
  2222. That’s just ad hominem, pleases show where he is wrong.
    1
  2223. I don’t trust them to do the right thing, I just don’t pay them if they do the wrong thing. Simple as.
    1
  2224.  @walterbailey2950 you really have no idea what you are talking about, do you? Like think about it for a second, if there was a form of socialism based on race instead of class, what would it look like?
    1
  2225. And Ancaps don’t believe in eliminating all coercion, but instead making all coercion something that you agreed to. In the contract you signed with your rights defense agency you agreed to be judged by the mediators they work with, if you don’t want to be judged a certain way you have to avoid rights defense agencies that work with judges that judge that certain way.
    1
  2226. What?
    1
  2227.  @bomination. yep, they tell me what to do, and I make tone of money, it’s a total steal I’m my favor. Do they think my work is really worth all that!
    1
  2228.  @thetinkerfloof  the claim was never that Hitler was a Marxist.
    1
  2229. Because they didn’t have genetic testing back then?
    1
  2230.  @Gvjrapiro  Everything you send here is unfactual, why create a unified union when you can ban them entirely? Why create a system of price commissars if it was only temporary? If they were so capitalistic, then why did they switch to a planed economy? even the UK didn’t do that. Why did they suspend private property if they wanted all the power to belong to private owners? Why would Hitler ally himself with the vary people he hates, what do you think the stab in the back theory was about?
    1
  2231. It’s corrosion that your agreed to. https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o
    1
  2232. It’s actually responsibly possible to achieve, just reduce the current government to its most basic functions, after that it should be possible to make taxation voluntary, because they would be low enough for the average person to feel comfortable paying. Like if everyone paid 500 dollars a year the government would have a budget of 165,950,000,000. That should be more then enough to defend the homeland and fund the legal system. After that organizations that do what the current government provides would pop up and offer higher quality services at lower costs. Because these organizations have to compete with the current government they automatically gain a lot of legitimacy, they can’t brake the laws of the original government without becoming big enough, and they can only become big enough if the people think they are a suitable replacement.
    1
  2233.  @classicalextremism  mediators are the answer. If two rights defense agencies have a conflict they could either fight which is costly, or seek mediation which is not. These mediators would then set the basis of rights and the like. Now when your choosing a rights defense agency you not just choosing the rights defense agency, but also the mediators they are willing to work with.
    1
  2234.  @classicalextremism fortunately for me both of our rights enforcement agencies have already agreed on mediation agency for this exact reason. If you refuse then your rights enforcement agency would probably back off, whatever your paying them just isn’t worth fighting my agency.
    1
  2235. You do know that people will deliberately miss quote him if he used his regular voice?
    1
  2236.  @Timbo5000 got to love socialists confirming that they want to enslave everyone.
    1
  2237.  @denniswhite4101 how so?
    1
  2238. That’s why TIK is using the last agreed upon definition, before the socialists slaughtered it.
    1
  2239.  @Arnie58  Hitler’s common enemy was the capitalist Jews, he talked about how if the Bolsheviks could remove their Jewish influence then they would be allies. In Hitler’s eyes the Bolsheviks were being controlled by the Jewish international finance. Also what’s a capitalist policy? and I’m not using the Soviet Union as a baseline here, I’m just taking the core ideas of socialism to their logical conclusions.
    1
  2240.  @Arnie58  then that would make any form of socialism that believes in the labor theory of value a capitalist one.
    1
  2241.  @Arnie58  it was nice talking, good luck!
    1
  2242.  @jerryhu4763 uh, that’s what I’m expecting, they will take the place of the government, but only after they show to people that they are better then it. The easiest way to achieve the anarcho-capitalist utopia is to reduce the current state to its most basic functions, law and defense. That reduction should reduce the tax burden to the point where people could honestly be persuaded to pay for it voluntarily. Then new organizations could pop up that do the same thing as the government. Most of the time they would follow the governments laws because they aren’t big enough to actually fight the current government, and the only way for them to become big enough is if people feel like they are doing a significantly better job then the government to the point where it’s worth switching over. All in all this guarantees that whatever organizations replace the current government will be better then the previous ones.
    1
  2243. You could have a state that taxes voluntary, if everyone in the US payed 50$ a month then you could fund the judicial system and double Indias military with plenty to spare.
    1
  2244.  @swankfiber5278 to be a historian you must question the sources, but you also can discard them. Every sources is distorted and full of falsehoods, but by critically examining it we can find the truth.
    1
  2245.  @ericc9321 na.
    1
  2246.  @edd5883 your telling me the Soviet Union didn’t also exterminate minorities?
    1
  2247.  @hobbso8508  socialism believes negative rights are dependent on wither they benefit the collective, and because socialism automatically believes it’s better for the collective it believes anyone voting against it are voting against the benefit of the collective, so socialists always take away the right to vote.
    1
  2248.  @hobbso8508  then what is? Capitalism isn’t the employer-employee relationship.
    1
  2249. There are a lot of new frontiers just on the horizon.
    1
  2250.  @leftistadvocate9718 the thing is, with the free market you literally do consent, it’s in the contract.
    1
  2251. Yep, that’s what’s so great about it. They have to provide a service otherwise I wouldn’t pay them.
    1
  2252.  @slaterslater5944  Well yeah, Hitler did not allow “owners” to have profits above a certain threshold, he controlled who exactly was employed and for how much they where paid, and his price commissars unforced strict price controls. Basically everything besides the general management of the company and predetermined profits was controlled by the Nazi party, and even that was suspect because he forced all workers into the DAF and gave them a lot of power over their employers.
    1
  2253.  @slaterslater5944  Why in the world would Hitler do that? He believed in the stab in the back theory, and who stabbed Germany in the back? The rich industrialists and the aristocracy, so again why would he give them huge profits? The truth is he improved the working classes living conditions, gave them higher wages and cheaper goods, all off the backs of other countries. He gave the workers authority and votes in the business, and you don’t need collective bargaining or strikes if you own the business
    1
  2254.  @hobbso8508 so unions can’t become nationalized?
    1
  2255. You do know Hitler never coined the term privatization, it was a bunch of low ranking members of the party who suggested such an idea and who were completely ignored. It would be like a bunch of capitalists suggesting that they could create democratic workplaces.
    1
  2256. Where is his ignorance?
    1
  2257.  @surge1229  left? Who said anything about left? (Actually I didn’t check so go ahead and point it out so we can both have a laugh.) The socialists also killed millions and want to kill an untold number, so you don’t have much to argue. Nazis are worse because you can’t stop being in the out group, bring that their socialism is based on race and not class, but they considered themselves better because they didn’t have to kill the rich.
    1
  2258. What are you talking about?
    1
  2259.  @user-ee2vt7yi3m if the state is so useful then it should be able to be work even if people could freely associate and chose to pay them.
    1
  2260.  @user-ee2vt7yi3m  is that what your using the state for? Weird. Personally I use it to help me protect my rights but to each his own.
    1
  2261. Or you could have two organizations who are trying to compete for legitimacy actually have to fight over upholding their constituents rights.
    1
  2262. Exactly like the video says.
    1
  2263. True, but TIK points out that there are many arguments that holocaust deniers have that can’t be explained with the traditional narrative,
    1
  2264.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  if both rights defense agencies cannot agree on an arbitration agency then they fight and both lose tons of money. They then will have to raise their prices to make back the money lost which will drive customers to their competitors who decide on arbitrators before conflict arises and so can offer cheaper services. Basically one of the big things rights defense agencies would do before offering their services to anyone is negotiating with its rivals on what arbitration agencies they will use. Thus anytime conflict does arise they don’t have to bleed and die for it.
    1
  2265. ⁠ @BurtReynolds-qp1jk or the loser could destroy anything of value before they lose it. I mean they have no obligations to hand it over to the person who’s literally killing them. So the winner is now losing tons of money to buy arms and pay its employees for risking their lives that is can’t make up in small amounts seized property and the few new customers.
    1
  2266.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  my boy, you just told me the reason they are fighting me is to get my stuff, so if I destroy that stuff they have no reason to fight me. Like a rights defense agency might be able to do that once, but everyone would probably wizen up to what they are doing and work to create incentives to not attack them, like lining your supplies with explosives so you can destroy it in a moments notice.
    1
  2267.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  I was going to lose my property anyway from the aggressive rights defense agency anyway, so destroying it doesn’t harm me. Also I think we got sidetracked, your talking about my tv? That Joe stole from me? Yeah I called up my RDA and the went over to Joe and told him to give it black. Of course Joe decided to call up his RDA and there was a stand off. For some reason instead of taking it to a mediator they stated shooting at each other. Five guys died and my RDA backed off. I was almost ready to switch to the agency made by my brother when they came buy and offered to pay me for my lost tv they couldn’t recover. Still it was annoying when the premiums went up.
    1
  2268.  @BurtReynolds-qp1jk  yeah, which is why people will pay for RDA’s that don’t start unnecessary violence.
    1
  2269.  @romitkumar6272  yep, but at that point it would be agreed upon by all parties that the aggressor did trample on someone’s rights and so restitution is justified. The victim’s rights enforcement agency would seize the aggressor and exact restitution and the aggressors rights enforcement agency would stand back and not interfere.
    1
  2270.  @romitkumar6272  did you not read what I already wrote, they consented to it when they signed the contract with their rights defense agency. These rights defense agencies add clauses in their contracts that say they will use a neutral mediator to settle disputes with other rights defense agencies, and if you lose the case we won’t support you because the 25$ a month you pay us is not worth dying over. For the rights defense agency, if you disagree with the court case and fight against it you will find yourself alone and surrounded by enemies because everyone knows you don’t except mediation. https://youtu.be/jTYkdEU_B4o
    1
  2271.  @blakeprice2988  what if we don’t end the state, but made taxation voluntary? Then any new organizations would have to actively be significantly better for people to switch to them.
    1
  2272.  @blakeprice2988  what do you think are the other parts are? The complete cessation of any form of violence and coercion? That seems unrealistic.
    1
  2273. What neglected areas?
    1
  2274. What primary sources refute his clamps?
    1
  2275. What is some of this corruption? How would regulation solve it?
    1
  2276.  @bobthefish442  honestly the most realistic way to create Ancapistan is to reduce the scale of the current government until taxation can become completely voluntary. then competitors to the government would start poping up and if you like any of them better then you can switch.
    1
  2277.  @bobthefish442  the Machinery of Freedom explains how it could work pretty well.
    1
  2278.  @Isvakk  they were ideological rivals, where small differences between them put them at odds with each other. The thing is a large number of communists joined the Nazi party during and after the night of the long knives. Basically they were given three options, step out of politics, join us, or die.
    1
  2279. The problem is no one in the ideology can articulate the substance of the ideology.
    1
  2280. What are you talking about, Hitler was not fascist, he was a Nazi, completely different ideologies. Additionally why in the world would he give stuff to the rich industrialists, aren’t those the people who stabbed Germany in the back in said theory?
    1
  2281.  @brett22bt  Every historian worth his name would tell you that fascism is a separate ideology form nazism, it’s only the average non-historian who would tell you otherwise.
    1
  2282.  @brett22bt And fascism was a derivative of socialism, you can trace its inspirations back to Marxism. I’m beginning to think you don’t know any of the history, Just ask any historian.
    1
  2283.  @roflol100  what makes something privately owned?
    1
  2284. What are you talking about?
    1
  2285.  @TheStobe84  socialism is inherently authoritarian. It believes that there is a way of determining utility without first discovering value. There’s a reason why all socialist states ban strikes, because once something is declared utility there is no room for questions and a strike is a question.
    1
  2286.  @TheStobe84  but people voting on different ideas is evidence that subjective value is the diver behind human action, and if subjective value is the diver behind human action then the whole reason why socialists want to equalize everyone brakes down. With subjective value an employer can’t be stealing the excess labor from the workers, which is the whole reason socialism exists.
    1
  2287.  @TheStobe84  the Nazis did that. They had extensive polls and questioners set out to help the boards determine what the German people wanted. Everything else you said is exactly what the Nazis did.
    1
  2288. It can be done thou. It just takes a while to explain.
    1
  2289. Eh, the average standard of living increased for ex-Soviet countries. But that was mainly in the big cities.
    1
  2290.  @hobbso8508 YouTube really likes deleting my comments now.
    1
  2291.  @javier8015  It’s actually responsibly possible to achieve, just reduce the current government to its most basic functions, after that it should be possible to make taxation voluntary, because they would be low enough for the average person to feel comfortable paying. Like if everyone paid 500 dollars a year the government would have a budget of 165,950,000,000. That should be more then enough to defend the homeland and fund the legal system. After that organizations that do what the current government provides would pop up and offer higher quality services at lower costs. Because these organizations have to compete with the current government they automatically gain a lot of legitimacy, they can’t brake the laws of the original government without becoming big enough, and they can only become big enough if the people think they are a suitable replacement.
    1
  2292.  @javier8015 no nothing would happen if you didn’t pay, eventually once enough people stopped paying the government would leave the aria. The voluntary aspect comes in later, this is just how to transition into a voluntary government. After several competitors popped up they will start creating agreements to settle disputes between customers, mainly though the use of impartial mediator. Mediators are the ones who create the laws between the two parties, so customers would factor that in when they choose a rights defense agency. So if we ever got into conflict we would be judged by a mediator whom we both selected, and thus laws that we both chose.
    1
  2293. TIK just realized that the things we hate in Nazism simultaneously exist in Marxism.
    1
  2294. How so?
    1
  2295. @hellothere6399yeah, the Nazis wanted a more fair and equal society for the Germans…
    1
  2296.  @esbenm6544 why not?
    1
  2297.  @slaterslater5944  what an obsessed loser. It’s fun watching you squirm.
    1
  2298.  @slaterslater5944  when have I been debating, na this is just making fun of you!
    1
  2299.  @slaterslater5944  and I clearly remember you running away from that debate.
    1
  2300. ​ @Evirthewarrior  so how can the government afford to build roads, and why would they spend that money on roads?
    1
  2301. It wouldn’t, but it’s one part of it.
    1
  2302. What evidence do you have that Hitler kept capitalism? Doesn’t the term totalitarian say the opposite? Socialists like to divide people into categories, you know workers vs capitalists? He did not get support from the rich, at least not in a way that would make him capitalist. The Nazis were races based socialists, not class based socialists like Marxism Socialists kill other socialists all the time.
    1
  2303.  @aleksazunjic9672 the answer to your organ harvesting operation is to pay rights defense agencies to defend you. As the threat of being killed by them increases so does the incentive to hire RDAs. Eventually it would become so expensive for the organ harvesting organization to operate that it will collapse.
    1
  2304. Your forgetting that most of this was paid for by invading other countries and stealing their resources.
    1
  2305. There was a comment above yours talking about how this video helps them understand Das Kapital. So doubt.
    1
  2306. ⁠ @titanicisshit1647 simply because the corporation doesn’t control the country, and membership is voluntary.
    1
  2307.  @dwizzi1724 who says I have a monopoly on violence? Couldn’t there be multiple agencies who’s job is to protect the rights of the people who pay them?
    1
  2308. what if we don’t end the state, but made taxation voluntary? Then any new organizations would have to actively be significantly better for people to switch to them. After it becomes standard for organizations to not subjugate people, the ones who do will see a lot of pressure to stop it. Not only would the people being subjugated pay more then the subjugator to have their rights maintained, but so would anyone outside of their rule because the threat of the subjugator to expand and take their rights would be too great. Basically a rogue organization like you describe will have to make more money from the plot of land they subjugated then their rivals do form that same plot of land plus a large radius around that.
    1
  2309.  @KnownNiche1999 well those are some serious problems you present, how would you make money off solving them?
    1
  2310.  @KnownNiche1999  everything after point 2 can be solved by creating a larger defense community. So you could have several organizations who’s main job is coordinating everyone else. If defense from invasion is something they care about the average person would pay for it. Did you know that if everyone in America paid 50$ a month we could easily pay for double India’s defense budget, and that’s just in peace time. If a war started going we would pay a lot more.
    1
  2311.  @KnownNiche1999  so the worst that could happen is we return to what we have now. Additionally there won’t be just one organization here, there would be dozens, so if one steps out of line people would pay the others to stop them. Like they whole job is preventing a state form taking over, which includes themselves.
    1
  2312. Wow it’s almost like socialists want to crush the trade unions once they are in power. Like if the country is socialist then striking against the state is striking against workers.
    1
  2313. So what’s he definition of socialism?
    1
  2314. Ha ha ha. So it’s a material thing then? Not spiritual?
    1
  2315. How so?
    1
  2316. what if we don’t end the state, but made taxation voluntary? Then any new organizations would have to actively be significantly better for people to switch to them. After it becomes standard for organizations to not subjugate people, the ones who do will see a lot of pressure to stop it. Not only would the people being subjugated pay more then the subjugator to have their rights maintained, but so would anyone outside of their rule because the threat of the subjugator to expand and take their rights would be too great. Basically a rogue organization like you describe will have to make more money from the plot of land they subjugated then their rivals do form that same plot of land plus a large radius around that.
    1
  2317. what if we don’t end the state, but made taxation voluntary? Then any new organizations would have to actively be significantly better for people to switch to them. After it becomes standard for organizations to not subjugate people, the ones who do will see a lot of pressure to stop it. Not only would the people being subjugated pay more then the subjugator to have their rights maintained, but so would anyone outside of their rule because the threat of the subjugator to expand and take their rights would be too great. Basically a rogue organization like you describe will have to make more money from the plot of land they subjugated then their rivals do form that same plot of land plus a large radius around that.
    1
  2318.  @LeeZaslofsky  na, don’t watch that one, this one covers it pretty well. Honestly you look like a fool. How are you supposed to dispute this video that’s about disputing your arguments without actually watching it. Like did you even fully read the title? Hitler’s Socialism: Destroying the Denialists Counter Arguments.
    1
  2319. Wow you should watch the video.
    1
  2320. You do know about bitcoin don’t you? It’s a decentralized logbook keeping track of ownership of an imaginary good. Saying you need a state to do this is dumb.
    1
  2321.  @alphana7055  they will run to their right defense agencies who will then go to mediation and nail things out there.
    1
  2322.  @bakters oh, it’s pretty simple, the state wasn’t dissolved completely, but instead reduced to its most basic functions of law and defense, and in doing so became affordable for the average person to voluntarily pay for.
    1
  2323. How so?
    1
  2324.  @SpeedKatMcNasty and you volunteer to pay for food.
    1
  2325. Well what’s your IQ?
    1
  2326. ⁠ @nathanbeler4874 what trust? How would they create a monopoly in a way that I can’t stop by not paying them?
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  2327.  @nathanbeler4874  the Machinery of Freedom answer those questions pretty well. Basically how much the population would pay to be under a law competes against how much the population would pay to not be under that law. A rich guy could pay a thousand times what the average person does to influence law, but all it would take is for a thousand and one people to make it more profitable to for law companies use the people’s law.
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  2328. And if what the government does fails, they steal from everyone to cover the costs…
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  2329.  @Jakob_DK  Redistribution to whom? The workers? naw, H didn't care about the workers, now the Germans on the other hand were a different story.
    1
  2330.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  socialism is the social control of the economy, communism is the worker control of the economy, both aren’t the democratization of the workplace.
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  2331. What are you talking about? How is this in any way relevant?
    1
  2332.  @brett22bt  I mean Hitler downplayed his antisemitism for the corporate elites, so it’s not too hard to believe that he also downplayed his socialism to them as well. It looks like to me that Hitler did the reverse of what your saying, that he tricked the corporate elite into supporting the worker party.
    1
  2333.  @brett22bt  but what were his nationalist goals?
    1
  2334.  @brett22bt  So what were his goals? Why did he want to invade Russia, why exterminate the Jews? Why set up absolute control over the economy? The easy answer would be that he wanted to create a socialist utopia for the Germans, everything else lines up after that.
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  2335. What are you talking about? Did you even watch the video?
    1
  2336.  @erictoro6519  how do you be a historian? And are you sure you actually watched the video?
    1
  2337. No actual arguments?
    1
  2338.  @thomashjensen1556 the answer is violence is expensive so right enforcement agencies will go for mediation to save on costs.
    1
  2339.  @Cubeforc3  most of the authors of the books are socialist, so TIK is just being a historian and considering their biases.
    1
  2340.  @Cloud_Seeker depends, personally I would negotiate with the HOA for the ability to freely associate with them. If they refuse then I will find somewhere else to live.
    1
  2341.  @Cloud_Seeker  this is a case we’re the HOA (and the government) actually owns the property and your lending it form them. The two basic ideas of anarcho-capitalism is that these organizations don’t own the property and you should be able to freely associate with them, and you consent to having your rights taken away when you breach the rights of others. In an ancapistan the HOA would have to create incentives to work with them. In most cases it would become a cheep mediation office so homeowners SPCA’s settle disputes, like if half of the neighborhood wants uniformity they could the other half, or if a tree in one persons property is hanging over another’s. In they want to give you fees they will have to own a part of the house, which then paints a clear picture on how they are going to work.
    1
  2342.  @Cloud_Seeker  how did you turn “These organizations don’t own the property and you should be able to freely associate with them” into “the state owns everything and you will be subservient to it”? This is boggling my mind here. I’m literally saying that the state (and the HOA) will not have a claim to your time or property in ancapistan.
    1
  2343.  @Cloud_Seeker  I was describing the current state of the world, then showing the Ancap vision. Right now we don’t actually own our property, it belongs to the state in everything but name only. In ancapistan the government/HOA would have no claim to your property, it isn’t owned by the state.
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  2344.  @Cloud_Seeker  the reason meditation works in ancapistan is because if both sides fight, both sides lose. Fighting costs lots of money, costs that would be have to be put on the customer, prices hikes always drive away customers, so it’s in the best interests of all who are involved to work with mediation.
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  2345.  @hobbso8508 but at that point the definition it’s worthless,
    1
  2346.  @hobbso8508 and in US politics it means government control over the means of production.
    1
  2347. How so?
    1
  2348. socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and the free market is terrible (without computing that acentrally controlled economy is the only alternative). Both of these combined together tell us that socialists can’t be democratic. Socialists believe their system is more efficient and moral, so anyone voting against it is voting against the self interest of the collective, and any rights that works against the self interest of the collective will be taken.
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  2349. The Nazis weren’t classist and they wanted a peaceful revolution, this explains why it looked like there were major capitalists.
    1
  2350.  @randalsnyder4821 as opposed to what system of governance? If the rich want to impose their will they will have to subsidize the legal system for the rest of the ancapistan. It’s just how economics works.
    1
  2351.  @randalsnyder4821 the thing if a minority wants to impose rules they will have to pay for it, subsidizing the legal system for everyone else. I feel like that’s a fair trade.
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  2352.  @AVhq11  more time then the person who made that video.
    1
  2353. Yeah they weren’t socialist, they just nationalized the trade unions, established price controls, suspended private property, reinforced a welfare state.
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  2354.  @FM-dm8xj  oh I agree, you might want to rephrase your original comment.
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  2355.  @kylebrink9347  you would imagine that if you were being taxed that people would be willing to pay slightly more then that to overthrow the unjustified rulers. Thus providing a resource for non-coercive groups to attack coercive ones. The main reason why rights defense agencies wouldn’t fight is because death costs a lot of money.
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  2356.  @kylebrink9347  well we aren’t creating a power vacuum, the current government would be reduced to its most basic functions, thus making it possible for the common person to actually want to pay for it voluntarily. Now that the government is voluntary other organizations could pop up that do the same thing. These new organizations would have to work with the current governments laws because they are not strong enough to oppose them, the only way for them to grow large enough to challenge the government is if they show they are better then it to the average consumer. People on average won’t support an organization that’s actively worse for them.
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  2357.  @kylebrink9347  the thing is people would tend to be wiling to pay more for the protection of their rights then people would pay to take those rights. Most people would pay just enough that they aren't instantly conquered, and then after they are attacked they would pay much more.
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  2358. If everyone pays the US government 50$ a month they could fund the Judaical system and the double the budget military of India with plenty to spare. So it’s completely doable.
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  2359.  @hobbso8508  socialism believes that subjective value is a capitalist construct and that our economy should really operate based on utility. There is the heart of socialist authoritarianism.
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  2360.  @hobbso8508  so some socialism can be authoritarian.
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  2361.  @hobbso8508  but Nazis Germany doesn’t open the markets up, in fact they closed them years before the war, you know, the one time you actually want to buy up as much resources as possible.
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  2362. Far right, far left. It doesn’t matter, they were socialists.
    1
  2363.  @vasconcelossentimento tell me you haven’t seen any of TIK’s videos.
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  2364.  @myname7937 except in Nazi Germany. But I agree with you elsewhere.
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  2365. How so?
    1
  2366. What are you talking about?
    1
  2367.  @artemalexandrovich6183  so all the quotes from sources mean nothing?
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  2368. ​ @steinanderson  so they weren't actually privatized?
    1
  2369.  @slaterslater5944  maybe you could watch the part of the video that talks about it, TIK provides sources for his claims.
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  2370. ​ @suruxstrawde8322 so the nazis are as left wing as the Bolsheviks. Good to know.
    1
  2371.  @alphana7055  did you watch the video? Your science is just dialectics, with no evidence behind it. Give me an example of socialism that doesn’t believe that rights are actually privileges.
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  2372.  @gorkri9215 where else would one get funding from exactly?
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  2373.  @gorkri9215 before or after it was certain he was going to win?
    1
  2374.  @gorkri9215 so who’s bidding did Hitler do exactly? What were these biddings?
    1
  2375. This is hilarious. Want to try again?
    1
  2376.  @jonathand3842 you clearly haven’t, as everything you talked about was addressed within this video.
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  2377.  @diegogbox  and that’s it?
    1
  2378.  @slaterslater5944  well, suspending private property is sure a socialist policy.
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  2379.  @hobbso8508  then they aren’t socialists. Quite literally no one has a problem with market socialism, besides the state socialists. Socialists believe that it’s ok to remove negative rights in return for positive rights. If you believe that capitalists are stealing your labor and that it should be redistributed without their consent then you believe that you should take someone’s negative rights.
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  2380. So where does this offend AnCaps?
    1
  2381. Yet Marx didn’t really care about equality.
    1
  2382. ⁠ @hobbso8508 so in your opinion the Soviet Union was actually capitalist because the leaders could draw profits and avoid labor. Could you provide some of these contemporary descriptions?
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  2383.  @hobbso8508 so taking form the profits and avoiding labor is not what the Nazis were doing?
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  2384. It’s actually responsibly possible to achieve, just reduce the current government to its most basic functions, after that it should be possible to make taxation voluntary, because they would be low enough for the average person to feel comfortable paying. Like if everyone paid 500 dollars a year the government would have a budget of 165,950,000,000. That should be more then enough to defend the homeland and fund the legal system. After that organizations that do what the current government provides would pop up and offer higher quality services at lower costs. Because these organizations have to compete with the current government they automatically gain a lot of legitimacy, they can’t brake the laws of the original government without becoming big enough, and they can only become big enough if the people think they are a suitable replacement.
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  2385. Yep.
    1
  2386.  @Mr.Witness in ancapistan a slave rebellion would’ve won decades earlier.
    1
  2387.  @Mr.Witness  the rules of conduct in ancapistan is the government doesn’t own me and that if you infringe on someone’s rights you consent to your own rights being infringed. The rules are enforced by the people and the rights defense agencies they hire. Individual law is defined by arbitration agencies who compete for the most popular laws. In ancapistan you could have arbitration agencies that allow for slavery, but they have to compete with the arbitration agencies that don’t allow slavery, and those ones would get paid by everyone with an vested interest in ending slavery, not just the people who don’t want to be enslaved, but everyone who doesn’t want to compete with slave labor and the slaves themselves.
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  2388.  @Mr.Witness  i would recommend reading The Machinery of Freedom, it addresses all of that. From what I understand most people don’t what their car stolen from them, so the demand for that is high and there will be lots of companies competing to fulfill that demand, reducing prices to a respectable level. Meanwhile the people who do what to steal cars would be relatively small, because if it’s legal for you to steal cars it’s also legal for other people to steal your car. Because there are less people here it becomes a luxury product, as they will have to pay off almost every other RDA to get them to use arbitration that supports stealing cars.
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  2389. How many of them supported Hitler before his rise to power, before it became likely that he would win?
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  2390. What assumptions do you need to get the right answer?
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  2391. ⁠ @Dumpsteret1 the anti-communist elite, supporting the national socialist party? Don’t make me laugh. In fact I dare you to show me a source for that claim that isn’t about foreign capital (the Soviets also got to power on foreign capital) or from before Hitler was about to win the election? (As that point people are just hedging their bets and didn’t really contribute to that persons success.)
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