Comments by "Cole Behnke" (@colebehnke7767) on "Hitler's Socialism: The Evidence is Overwhelming" video.

  1. Most of those have rules on how they can take property, the Nazis suspended those rules.
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  2.  @kabedonovan5555  so your arguing that all countries are socialist? I don’t get why you are telling me this.
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  3.  @executivedirector7467  can you provide a sample?
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  4.  @executivedirector7467  so a socialist was in Germany, saw how socialist it was, wrote exactly what he saw, but because he was socialist he couldn’t say it was socialism. TIK addressed this is his 9 hour video.
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  5. Socialists kill other socialists all the time, so try again.
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  6. He is an actual historian, how is he not?
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  7.  @randomuser3481  the most accurate definition of socialism is the collective control over the means of production. Marxism just came up with the idea that workers should be the collective.
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  8. As socialists tend to do.
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  9. Did you actually watch the video?
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  10. What do you think of Utopian Socialism? It was a form of socialism that existed before Marxism that didn’t divide society by class.
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  11.  @psychedelicprimate8974  so you have no arguments against the contents of the video. Why are you commenting?
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  12. Na, he had to invade the rest of Europe otherwise he would’ve ran out of money to spend on all his socialist programs.
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  13.  @Azazin187 ​⁠ 1. I mean if they really were socialist they would’ve used the same propaganda, so that’s irrelevant. 2. The suppressed everyone, and their suppression of their fellow socialists is not unique amongst socialists. 3. Economically they are indistinguishable from other socialist countries of the time, privatization wasn’t even a state sanctioned idea, it was named by a few low level members of the party and was completely ignored. 4. They were not marxists, they were socialists. They started at the same place, that humans are naturally good and it’s the society that corrupts them, so if we remove the corrupting influences from society then we could achieve a utopia where everyone is equal. 5. What do you think TIK is doing? He goes through the sources and asks “what biases does this source have.” Turns out a lot of the reputable sources of the time claiming the nazis are not socialists have marxist biases and so that must be accounted for when studying their work.
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  14. But price controls before the war?
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  15. You’ve made no actual arguments, try again.
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  16. Did you watch the video?
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  17. Did Stalin do the same thing? It just looks like a standard socialist tactic to me.
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  18. Did you actually watch the video?
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  19. So you didn’t watch the video?
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  20. The Nazis suspended private property. So by default things were owned socially.
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  21. Did you watch the video?
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  22. So you didn't watch the video?
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  23.  @RickMastroianni so how can you claim that he is rewriting history then?
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  24. Did you actually watch the video?
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  25. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  26. So you’re ignoring the whole history of socialism then?
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  27. He never said it was
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  28. How is it a grift?
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  29. Can you provide a contemporary source describing their economic policy as privatization? Checkmate socialists!
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  30.  @ntokozosibanyoni1421  well TIK did the research for me, turns out no one at the time called what the Nazis were doing privatization, that was just a myth created by a few people who didn’t understand how nasalization works in the real world.
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  31. TIK was a socialist before he realized that Hitler was a socialist, so all the definitions he used to come to this conclusion are socialist definitions.
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  32.  @arnaudaerts1726  you know the Nazis did both of those things, right?
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  33. We was a socialist, so if anyone knows it’s him.
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  34. Did you watch the video?
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  35. Did you actually watch the video?
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  36. How so?
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  37. ​​ @suruxstrawde8322  do you have any evidence for this claim? And did you actually watch the video that showcased how they ruled the same way as other socialists?
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  38.  @fahrenheigh where do you show that the subject of this video is false? Or are you telling me that without any evidence? Hell you didn’t even watch the video did you?
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  39.  @nathanbrownmolotov8697 yeah try again…
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  40. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video?
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  41. The workers owning the means of production isn’t socialism, otherwise it wouldn’t be called that.
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  42.  @zoidburger2830  so if the Germans killed off all other races and socialized themselves, then you would have an equal state?
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  43. Did you actually watch the video?
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  44. How so?
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  45. Is he wrong?
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  46. Like what?
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  47. And who privately owned them?
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  48.  @xtoll123  I believe socialism was based out of some misconceptions about human nature, mostly the social engineering stuff, and is unfortunately doomed to fail because of that. Additionally I can’t except your definition of capitalism, because under it every socialist regime would’ve been capitalist, basically making it worthless as a word.
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  49.  @randomuser3481  can you provide a contemporary source that backs up the claim that they privatized the economy?
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  50.  @Azazin187 I love most of your excuses here. 1. Ethno-nationalism, social darwinism, or antisemitism don’t make something not socialist. 2. They actively thought the conservative elements to not be threats, which is countered by the fact that conservative elements where the only ones to attempt removing hitter. 3. Did you actually watch the video? TIK quotes from those vary books. Anyone who’s telling you they didn’t centrally plan the economy has clearly not read the sources. 4. Social Darwinism was created by left wing academics. 5. He’s using contemporary sources for this. Basically everyone who has saying the Nazis weren’t socialist just after the war were socialist themselves. The truth is TIK has been debunking most academics because he actually goes to the sources and studies them critically.
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  51. The truth on the matter is that the Nazis didn’t have the support of big business until after it looked like they were going to win. So in all actuality it was the reverse that was true, that they used used anti-socialist rhetoric to gain the support of big business in the months leading to them taking power.
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  52.  @walterbailey2950  so you know nothing of what the Nazis actually believed? Because what you said there was not what they believed at all.
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  53. How so?
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  54.  @paulsame1124  I mean if the Catholic Church took over the country, suspended all private property rights, and required all businesses to be owned by loyal Catholic Priests, I would say they nationalized their economy.
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  55. What lies?
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  56. No formal instruction? He has a degree in history.
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  57.  @simonbutelerdellepiane5564  so what did he get wrong in this video?
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  58. Well socialism isn’t Marxism, but Marxism is socialism.
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  59. Na, he is just being a historian, looking at the sources and considering their bias.
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  60.  @psychedelicprimate8974  he isn’t saying they are the same thing, he’s saying that Nazism, Fascism, and Marxism are all separate socialist ideologies.
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  61. Do you even listen to him yourself? He addresses all of that. Socialism isn’t marxism, but marxism is socialism. Who they are? Socialist academics and the WW2 propaganda machine. Also the Nazis had the largest labor union to date, created massive welfare programs, forced companies owners to support their workers, and their primary economic policy was synchronization, not privatization.
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  62.  @limitlessapocalypse2702  and?
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  63. I would say Stalin did the same thing.
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  64. What’s the definition of socialism then?
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  65. Or maybe the left is becoming the party of the elite college educated thinks to their wealth and specialization are not tied to any country, while the right is the party of the working class trapped in a country people.
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  66. ⁠ @danielsandwhichpants1391 and you used arguments that are addressed in the video. Like Hitler nationalized more then he privatized, and the things that he privatized were done so in name only. Immediately killing your rivals socialists is so common amongst socialists that the nazis doing it fits then trend.
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  67.  @randomuser3481  wasn’t their whole deal synchronization? The first step is to get all property under the control of the Germans, then they would voluntarily give it up.
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  68. So the Soviet Union didn’t have Trade Unions?
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  69. How so?
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  70. Market economy ran by the government? Are you serious?
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  71.  @suruxstrawde8322 how is that any different from what other socialists did to each other in other socialist countries? Hitler believed his socialism was the one true socialism, and that all the others were fakes.
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  72.  @rn6312 well how is it garbage? You have any arguments besides appeal to authority?
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  73.  @hobbso8508 no, because feudalism didn’t call themselves socialist.
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  74.  @diegogbox  you should probably watch his other videos, they go into this in much more depth.
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  75.  @fahrenheigh what’s false narratives does it create?
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  76. Socialists kill other socialists all the time.
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  77. No, he was a socialist.
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  78.  @kryoraptor7985  fascism is a distinct ideology form nazism and marxism that views the world through the lens of nationality. Nazism, marxism, and fascism are all distinct ideologies, but they are all forms of socialism.
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  79. Private property was suspended, so I doubt that. It seems you just don’t know the sources.
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  80. But if they were traditionalists, wouldn’t they have brought back the Kaiser?
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  81. Dam, so when the state protects its own property, it must be private property!
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  82.  @benmorton8945 how did the capitalist own the profits if they only could spend them on what the state wanted?
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  83. How so?
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  84.  @auratheevinkian well if I’m so stupid, it should be easy to explain what’s wrong with the video?
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  85. How so?
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  86.  @IrishSwede  what is he getting wrong? I’ve yet to see a good argument.
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  87.  @markfrederikbaksrensen8574  no you would be a historian and a psychopath. Look, TIK used to be a socialist, it was only after reading the sources and considering their biases that he came to the conclusion that the Nazis were socialist, and now he is standing around saying, “hey the sources don’t say that, just look.”
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  88.  @aligindahouse7777 so did you watch the video?
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  89. Was the Roman Catholic Church a part of the government? And did the people doing this call themselves socialists? As I said in another comment, if the Catholic Church took over the country, suspended all private property rights, and required all businesses to be owned by loyal Catholic Priests, I would say they nationalized their economy.
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  90. Like how was Hitler not socialist?
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  91. Even for their time they were socialist.
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  92.  @WhiteWolf126  third position. Literally calls himself a socialist and does everything a socialist would do.
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  93.  @1sb3rg34  how so?
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  94. So you didn’t watch the video, how can selling a few stocks to nazi party members counteract the fact they nationalized all industry?
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  95.  @hobbso8508  the job of a historian is to look at the sources and question them. If your not questioning the authenticity of a source then your not a historian.
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  96. What’s wrong?
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  97. And nether is it capitalism.
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  98.  @dwizzi1724  my problem is that socialism simultaneously gets rid of all the laws that protect us from abuse. Is it no wonder that every socialist regime fell to dictatorships.
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  99. What are you talking about?
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  100. Try again?
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  101. Well it turns out 78 years of historical consensus are not supported by the sources.
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  102.  @randomuser3481  all of those are the refuted by their actual actions. For someone who loves private property why did he suspend it?
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  103.  @hobbso8508  so Nazi Germany gave all property to the ruling public organization.
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  104.  @hobbso8508  I mean if a church put you in change of a company but could remove you at any time, you would call that company church owned. But if a political party did the same it’s suddenly completely different.
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  105.  @hobbso8508  but the state also determined what your profits could be and how you could spend them, doesn’t seem like you own the profits.
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  106.  @hobbso8508  there’s also the fact that the Nazis were in the process of expropriating almost every sector of the economy.
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  107.  @hobbso8508  then what is socialism? Remember that this definition must also fit the Soviet Union.
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  108.  @hobbso8508  Republics work by having people represent their constituents, so representation is all that required. Can you show me proof that the Soviet Union didn’t represent the wishes of the people?
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  109. Uh, the Soviet Union aligns with conservative on social values, like learn basic history.
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  110. You should actually watch the video, all of those points are addressed. Please.
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  111. How did he encourage capitalism, he hated liberals.
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  112. So you don’t watch the video.
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  113. What makes something a capitalist system?
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  114.  @WolfinLondon2  Marx makes it quite clear that the Jews where capitalist.
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  115. They were socialists, they just believed that the collective consciousness couldn’t be awakened naturally and had to be artificially created. Thus their attempt to unite the collective around the concept of race.
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  116.  @kabedonovan5555  what?
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  117. You should really watch the video.
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  118. So you didn’t watch the video? By this definition the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist, which is absurd.
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  119.  @PeterFriedsam how so?
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  120. ⁠ @hobbso8508 Marx didn’t actually believe that a revolution could be done democratically, he believed democracy in a capitalist society was so corrupt that it could never bring about socialism.
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  121.  @psychedelicprimate8974 nd who killed the mensheviks? Hitler did not exterminate the communists. In the first year of Nazi rule only 600 of these communists were killed, all the other communists who were arrested were reeducated in the workcamps. Just like anything else in 3rd grade, most of the important details about the Nazis ideology was left out.
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  122.  @hobbso8508 Nether does most unions in socialist states. Turns out when the state give you authority your no longer bound to the workers.
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  123. Did you watch the video?
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  124. Did you actually watch the video?
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  125.  @arnaudaerts1726  so you didn’t watch the video, TIK addressed that.
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  126.  @arnaudaerts1726  then you clearly didn’t grasp several fundamental aspects of what he was talking about
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  127.  @arnaudaerts1726  what are you talking about in your lest comment? That free markets are not contrary to Nazi beliefs?
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  128. Did you actually watch the video?
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  129. If killing socialist made you not one, wouldn’t Stalin also not be a socialist?
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  130. How so?
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  131. Lots of things, the Nazis didn’t have private property, didn’t have independent trade unions, didn’t have a private stock exchange, etc. China is ruled by a communist party, so it having socialist policies shouldn’t come at a surprise.
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  132.  @shakey3306 how exactly?
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  133. The Soviets killed socialists, so that isn’t a big of an argument as you think.
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  134. The thing is the Nazis considered the aryans to be the workers.
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  135.  @ast453000  socialists kill other socialists all the time, nothing new.
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  136.  @hobbso8508 wasn’t asking you, so any proof?
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  137. Did you actually watch the video?
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  138. I think there was one guy who hated privatization who tried to link what the Nazis did to privatization to discredit it.
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  139. My boy, the Nazis didn’t privatize things, nor did they call it such, it was a British newspaper that said they were privatizing by describing them nationalizing industries. This was addressed in the video, if you actually watched it.
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  140. So your ignoring the rest of the video showing how it’s not a misnomer?
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  141. How so?
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  142.  @fahrenheigh what about the subject of this video is false?
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  143.  @GREGORYABUTLER  “pro capitalist” source? “Smashed the trade unions, outlawed strikes, and made socialist and communist parties illegal.” Like every other socialist who got power. “How could they be ‘socialists’ when they sent actual socialists to concentration camps” That’s pretty standard for socialists, putting their political rivals, who just so happen to be socialists, into camps and gulags. “Also the Nazis were EXTREMELY RACIST AND ANTISEMITIC” It’s like you never read Karl Marx. Get out of your fantasy, that’s not socialism, well it’s not the only form of socialism. You follow the one branch of socialism that survived to this day.
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  144.  @jajajjajjaajjaa why would anyone here support socialists of any kind, fuck musk.
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  145. Who said anything about the name?
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  146. That’s addressed in the first five minutes.
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  147.  @skepticalextraterrestrial2971  but who? Because before then Nazis didn’t have any support amongst the industrials or aristocracy.
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  148. How so?
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  149.  @stef65856 no, you just can’t use the fact that they banned strikes to prove they were not socialist.
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  150. How could they have easily have been prevented?
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  151. TIK used to be a socialist, if anyone knows, it would’ve him.
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  152.  @hobbso8508  The law dictating how the government could appropriate private property was suspended, there was no private property.
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  153.  @rickglorie  TIK never claimed that Hitler was a Marxist, he claimed that he was a National Socialist, you know, Socialism for the German.
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  154. How so?
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  155. How so?
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  156. Need, as can be seen in The Vampire Economy and Hitler’s Beneficiaries.
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  157. How is TIK a fascist?
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  158.  @diegogbox  so it’s fine to chary pick ideas when it’s to prove that Hitler wasn’t a socialist, but wrong when it’s to prove that he was.
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  159. Did you watch the video?
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  160.  @HellIsInfinite  but it wasn’t just steel and iron, it was everything. Additionally their economic policy wasn’t one of nationalization, it was one of synchronization, a vary socialist idea in concept and in practice.
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  161. Odd how every socialist state uses a authoritarian war economy?
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  162. Did you watch the video?
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  163. Try again?
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  164. He is just a historian, doing what historians should do, looking at the sources and discovering their biases.
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  165. Like what?
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  166. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  167.  @trogdor1977 so ad hominem, nice.
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  168. Privately owns how? If a church had the same power over a company you would say that they are church owned, so why is this different?
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  169. Socialists always kill socialists, nothing new.
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  170. But no other classes.
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  171. What?
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  172. What propaganda?
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  173.  @walterbailey2950  wow, a reactionary movement that implemented every policy that they where seemingly reacting against!
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  174. I mean it’s the socialist modus operandi to obfuscate and distort language to fit their subjective views, so no surprise that the national socialists did just that.
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  175. TIK addresses that in the video.
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  176. Did you watch the video?
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  177. How so?
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  178.  @metacube9913  how is this cope?
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  179.  @metacube9913  what is factually wrong with it?
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  180.  @seandouglas5429  but remember that to be a party member you had to submit to higher ranking members. The Nazi party was an organization into itself.
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  181. Here’s some facts. The Nazi party was a top down hierarchical organization where your membership depended on how well you followed the leader. The Nazi party was the state. Understating both of these you will have to agree that the Nazi “privatizing” was in reality moving ownership of industries from one state organization to another.
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  182. This is a hilariously bad argument, the Nazis aim was the same aim as every other socialist in history, socialists just don’t like admitting they want class genocide.
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  183.  @WhiteWolf126  you said it yourself that the nazi party was the state, and we also know that the nazi party was a strict regimental organization that did not distinguish private from public within its party members. Putting these “privatized” industries into the hands of the Nazis was quite literally centralization. The Nazis didn’t have complete control over the government when they first took power, that’s what privatization was for, once he found parts of the government that didn’t support him he devolved them and gave the property to someone under his control.
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  184. Not really.
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  185. So any actual arguments?
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  186.  @chromaticstorm787 uh, Hitler believed in race socialism, and he believed the Jews corrupted it into class socialism. This is that your quote is saying. Hitler was a socialist, but he wasn’t a Marxist.
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  187.  @hobbso8508  socialism doesn’t believe in democracy because to them all rights are actually privileges, and if your not using your privileges to benefit the collective then they will be taken away.
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  188. Why?
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  189. Both of your quotes don’t support your argument, Himmler was obviously talking about the fact that they couldn’t establish a socialist economy until they won and had lebensraum. Hitler was talking about how capitalism will case the end of the world via the shrinking markets problem, and though a socialist economy Germany would survive.
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  190. Socialists always kill other socialists, nothing new.
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  191. Also, why would Hitler establish excessive price controls, remove private property protections, and create the bureaucracy to centrally control the economy if he was a diehard liberal?
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  192.  Nicholas Time  care to point out something particularly egregious?
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  193. So what makes someone an actual qualified historian?
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  194. ⁠ @Mancheguache dam, it’s almost like he has that…
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  195. TIK goes into detail on all of these points in his other videos, the bonds thing in particular is talked about heavily in the BankWars series of his.
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  196. How so?
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  197. Socialists kill other socialists all the time, nothing new.
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  198. How so?
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  199. How so?
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  200. Did you actually watch the video?
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  201. Wow its like he already seized power by that point.
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  202.  @nicknolte8671 wow, so it looked like Hitler was about to win, so the capitalists hedged their bets. Like who would you support, the Marxist who says he’s going to take everything from you and is unwilling to negotiate, or the Nazi who says he most definitely won’t not take everything from from you unless you support him if you just pay him of course. Like you should actually watch the videos because you make arguments that are already addressed.
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  203. Care to explain?
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  204. Uh, you do know the history of fascism, right?
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  205. You need to rewatch the video then.
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  206. What is untrue about it?
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  207.  @nukethepentagon supported private property? How can you say this when he suspended it shortly after coming to power? There where three branches of socialism in Germany at the time, hardline Marxism who believed in a violent revolution to create the workers dictatorship, communists who believed in a peaceful revolution to create a workers dictatorship, and social democracy who wanted peaceful revolution with reforms. Hitler was originally in the hardline Marxist camp, but after his failed revolution he switch to the Communist camp. This is why he purged Strasser’s camp. While both Hitler and Strasser wanted the same thing, Strasser wanted a violent revolution and redistribution of wealth, which would’ve completely ruined Hitler’s successful peaceful revolution.
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  208. ​​ @Schnoz42069  uh you do know according to Wikipedia, "state capitalism" is about nationalizing industries? And privately owned by the state? You do know that the state is the public sector right?
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  209.  @Schnoz42069 but the government is the public sector, and by definition not private.
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  210.  @Schnoz42069 the government is the public sector, it by definition cannot own things privately.
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  211.  @panzermaus664  the Nazis had nothing against profit, that’s a Marxist concept. Just pay your fair share and work in the best interests of the German people. Remember that everything in Nazi Germany was first property of the Nazi party, then second property of the private individual.
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  212. The problem with that is nothing Hitler ever said supports that. In fact Hitlers words support the opposite, that the war and conquest was just the means to the end of socialism.
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  213. Did you actually watch the video?
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  214.  @FaustLimbusCompany  it’s kind of hard for price calculation to happen when the state sets the prices.
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  215.  @hobbso8508  so I can completely disregard your opinion on socialism now. Please don’t embarrass yourself like this again.
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  216.  @hobbso8508  the literal definition is the collective control over the means of production, if you can’t except that then you have a problem.
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  217.  @hobbso8508  Socialism has no requirement of democracy, in fact they can’t be democratic because then people could vote to be not socialist.
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  218.  @hobbso8508  additionally democratic socialism would be authoritarian, if the majority didn’t like a minority they could have them killed off.
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  219.  @dallowfusionblast  your make some points about the death numbers, but you disregard everything else TIK has said.
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  220. What is he getting wrong then?
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  221. ⁠ @ajax2181 corporatism was largely a socialist ideology. Utilism is a legal system, and would just be socialism if it was applied to economics. Proprietism is just the next generation of capitalism. Like I said half of what you told me was more detailed socialism.
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  222. You should probably watch the video.
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  223. How so?
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  224. What are you talking about?
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  225. What are you talking about?
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  226.  @walterbailey2950  so what is socialism?
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  227. You have any source for your claim that Hitler didn’t have any cohesive economic ideology?
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  228. How so?
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  229. The mains counter argument is that the Nazis were race based socialists, not class based socialists, so their goal was for the abolishment of private property, (witch they did), and all political power was controlled by the working race. No socialist country had ever abolished wage labor.
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  230. But isn’t that what all socialists are doing? Claiming that they have true socialism and that Hitler did not?
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  231. Can you show some of these “idiotic claims”?
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  232.  @Chriscraft-ug3sz  well socialism isn’t workers owning the means of production.
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  233. ​ @jonathanguzman3044  And in 1933 the Nazis suspended all those laws, marking all property the states by default.
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  234. How?
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  235. Yeah that source you keep on bringing up really doesn’t address any of the arguments in the video, so I ask again, did you watch the video? Because how are firms independent when they literally are controlled by Nazis? It would be like saying the Catholic Church doesn’t own the country, they just have bishops controlling every business.
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  236. What are you talking about?
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  237.  @Petr-Nikolov so you haven’t watched the video?
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  238.  @Petr-Nikolov he’s a libertarian, he hates socialism. So why would a fascist be trying to attach his ideology to something he hates?
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  239.  @hobbso8508  that’s odd, I got into an argument with another socialist about a similar topic and they convinced me that Marxism doesn’t believe democracy could create socialism. Marx actually believed that the revolution would happen because the free market is so bad that it will eventually implode on itself and bring about the revolution.
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  240. Because it’s in the name argument is easily dismissed, so TIK goes through the rest to support his claim.
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  241. So you didn’t actually watch the video then? Socialism is a broad umbrella term covering marxism, social democracy, social liberalism, fascism, and indeed nazism. To say nazism is socialism is correct, but to say socialism is nazism is not.
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  242.  @psychedelicprimate8974  turns out school oversimplifies topics most of the time.
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  243. You should watch the video. Hard to be private when your owned by the state.
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  244.  @StefanNemec  can you provide sources for the claim that it was financed by the capitalists? how can you tell if an industry is owned by the workers?
    4
  245. How so?
    4
  246.  @hobbso8508  I could use that same argument to say Europe wasn’t Christian.
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  247. It’s kind of funny because the antisemitic propaganda was then transform into communist propaganda just by getting rid of the Jewish iconography.
    4
  248. 1.) and the Soviets where monarchists? 2.) into the hands of the Nazi party, that was the government at the time. 3.) like the Soviets? 4.) like the Soviets? 6.) what do you mean leftist?
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  249. How so?
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  250.  @brandonmorel2658 you do know that term state capitalism was originally created to describe countries under the Warsaw Pact, right?
    4
  251.  @ntokozosibanyoni1421  you haven’t shown any sources to back up your claim that the Nazis privatized their economy. I’m perfectly confident that you will never be able to, providing me right.
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  252. What is it then?
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  253. What are you talking about? He directly calls out the US as being a flawed market all the time.
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  254. Remember at that time nation really meant the people in it and not just the state, so any attempt to empower the nation was an attempt to empower the people.
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  255.  @arnaudaerts1726  I’m saying that post ww2 narrative was set by Marxists and we have been regurgitating their sayings since.
    4
  256. Well he explains that in a vary twisted sense of the word, yes it is. Democracy means peoples power, and if the government defines itself as serving the people then it can call itself a democracy.
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  257. Well they did. They could replace any leader they wished.
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  258.  @Playwright-Lorde  or the numerous company owners set the the camps. The Nazis punished dissidence, and all you had to do to remove someone you didn’t like from power is accuse them of dissidence. The Nazis economic policy was synchronization after all.
    4
  259. If he was in live with capitalism, why did he hate the liberals?
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  260. How so?
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  261.  @Chambi10614  yeah, remember that the Nazis believed that Jewish Capitalism/Bolshevism would lead to the end of civilization, so of course he would fight it.
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  262. Dam, so every socialist state to exist wasn’t socialist? Like the Soviet union nationalized all worker councils, revoked their right to protest and strike, and murdered more socialists than the Nazis did. Hell, your point on killing every socialist they could find is blatantly false, there were millions of socialists and we have no records of the Nazis killing that many maybe a few thousand at worst.
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  263.  @jacavanheesch4593  it’s a lie that they put mostly leftists into concentration camps, everyone was put into those camps, in fact the one rich industrialist who supported Hitler before he rose to power was put in one. The only reason the conservatives weren’t killed to the same degree was because Hitler didn’t think of them as a threat, and later many Nazis lamented that he didn’t kill them all. TIK is telling the experts, Sir, the sources don’t back up your claims. Like the Nazis didn’t privatize their industries, anyone claiming that hasn’t read the sources.
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  264.  @hobbso8508  they owned them in name only, they were middle managers for the Nazi party. Additionally they didn’t get the profits, the stock exchange was seized redirecting all publicly traded profits to the Nazi party.
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  265.  @roflol100  how can a command economy have the workers control it?
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  266. Did you watch the video?
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  267. What’s the difference?
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  268.  @bobcoburn5238  that’s exactly that nationalization means, there was only one guy who called that Privatization, everyone else called it what it really was, Synchronization.
    4
  269.  @hobbso8508  yeah, everyone knew that was nationalization. That guy just tried to make it seam like Nazi party members were not members of the state.
    4
  270.  @KaldrantheDrago  that’s was nazism, different ideologies.
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  271. But this was relevant, he was targeting the fact that people say the Nazi’s privatized the economy by showing what their actual economic policy was like.
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  272. How so?
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  273.  @KaldrantheDrago  when did the Americans kill capitalists?
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  274. How is this ahistorical?
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  275.  @jon82489  you know large corporations and socialists have mutually beneficial relationships, right?
    4
  276. Can you prove that Hitler didn’t fallow the collective will of the German people?
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  277. Not really, did you even watch the video?
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  278.  @hobbso8508  can you provide contemporary sources that support the claim that the Nazis were privatizing the economy?
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  279. So what part of the Nazi party wasn’t socialist?
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  280.  @hobbso8508  wasn’t asking you.
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  281. Did you actually watch the video? Cus there is a part where he addresses Nazis were race based socialists, not class based socialists. Putting the working race in charge of the means of production was their main goal, it didn’t matter what class they were.
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  282. What’s wrong with it that isn’t made worse by any other system?
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  283. How so?
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  284. What makes someone a capitalist?
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  285. Did you watch the video?
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  286. Then what is it? And how are Nazis different from literally any other socialist movement?
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  287.  @BogdanBogdanovichBogdanov My Brother in Christ! The Nazis where race based socialists. Think about that for a second, they don’t care about class. Everything that you say about class in only an issue for class based socialists, aka marxists. Marxism is the socialist ideology that cares about class and believes in class equality.
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  288.  @BogdanBogdanovichBogdanov  “Marxism” and “facts based” are two ideas that are mutually exclusive. Additionally Marx himself points out things like Utopian Socialism that don’t believe in class struggle, signifying that class struggle was added to the concept of socialism, and if class struggle can be added, then why can’t racial struggle?
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  289.  @jacobfrancis-burnett6837 so you continue to refuse to watch the video you are commenting under, that addresses all of that? Yeah I can’t help you. Like the video very deliberately points out how Against the Mainstream misrepresents its sources. Like Privatization to whom exactly? Nazi party members who are parts of the government?
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  290. Tell me you haven’t watched the video without telling me you haven’t watched the video.
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  291.  @ngltbh  yet every socialist movement was funded by capitalists.
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  292. Why not?
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  293. So Stalin was a conservative?
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  294.  @brandonmorel2658 because the vampire economy was written by a socialist, so of course he wouldn’t want to say nazism is socialism. All he does is say something the Nazis did that was socialist, but then say it wasn’t in fact socialist, dispute the Soviet Union doing the exact same things.
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  295.  @brandonmorel2658  your conflicting scholar and scientist.
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  296.  @brandonmorel2658 so have you actually watched his videos yet?
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  297. Dam, did you watch the video? Because he used those sources himself…
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  298. Less then five minutes in 4:36
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  299.  @sturm_wind so let me get this straight, the paper says they primarily sold public organizations to private organizations within the Nazi party, yet the only example was an organization what wasn’t within the Nazi party? Why are you trusting this source again?
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  300.  @fahrenheigh what is false about it?
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  301. How not?
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  302. What’s wrong? We know that academia is wrong about the Nazi privatization myth.
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  303.  Nicholas Time  how are they not?
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  304. The problem here dear sir, is the Nazi used a plained economy before wartime. Additionally can you prove that the Reichstag didn’t fallow the will of the people?
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  305.  @sumdumbbeats9879  clearly not, because he addressed everything you said.
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  306. Can you provide actual evidence?
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  307. To him?
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  308. What group of strong men?
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  309. So just like every socialist ever?
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  310.  @Loqueteron  the made up definition that all socialist use? That the Soviet Union fell under?
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  311.  Caesar  but this was a common belief even before the war. What’s up with that?
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  312. So one can’t preform cross analysis on history?
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  313. Did you actually watch the video?
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  314. So you didn’t watch the video…
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  315.  @rickglorie  Unfortunately a lot of that was discussed in other videos, but I did specifically this video so, Congratulations!
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  316.  @Imbalanxd  but the Nazis suspended private property protections in 1933. This is not comparable to what the US did.
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  317.  @slaterslater5944  wasn’t asking you.
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  318.  @rn6312 yet they haven’t. Every critic so far has been less educated then him.
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  319.  @rn6312  what are some of his criticisms of TIK’s work?
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  320. Witch video actually backs up its claims with sources?
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  321. I mean he did, democracy doesn’t need elections, just the claim of peoples power.
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  322. I’ve actually seen some socialist basically make that claim.
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  323. Why then?
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  324. Can you provide an example of one that wasn’t?
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  325. Socialism.
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  326. Have you ever considered that Hitler was lying?
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  327.  @diegogbox  TIK went over both of these quotes in his 5 hour video. Hitler had his own definition of socialism, like most socialists.
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  328. What did he say that’s actually wrong?
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  329. I disagree, during and after the night of long knives a large number is socialists joined the Nazi party.
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  330.  @JuvianTV so basically he’s wrong because he disagrees with the WW2 propaganda and is trying to do the historians job of digging through the sources and considering their biases?
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  331.  @JuvianTV  I would love to hear of these sources that he smilingly ignores.
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  332. He doesn’t use the left right scale…
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  333.  @MrDan557  the book, Hitler’s Beneficiaries, disagrees with you. Additionally what corporate oligarchy? The ones he replaced with his own people whom he had absolute control over? Don’t seem like a corporate oligarchy to me.
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  334. What are you talking about?
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  335.  @davebeha5365 how so?
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  336.  @Jenseduca dam your really hung up on the materialism thingy.
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  337.  @BorkDoggo  I mean he did point it out, otherwise you would have never known, so he did do his job correctly. And what narrative is he pushing by changing that? He already believes that fascism is socialism.
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  338.  @BorkDoggo  so my argument clearly went over your head. TIK has made it abundantly clear that in his opinion, that fascism is a form of socialism, so why would he change it from fascism to socialism if they were the same thing?
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  339.  @BorkDoggo  TIK believes that Marxism, Fascism, and Nazism are all three distinct socialist ideologies. He explains this later in the video. TIK’s change was a simple correction, if the guy was talking about Nazis and called them Marxists he would do the same thing.
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  340. Any actual arguments?
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  341. Do you have any evidence for your clams that that was the Nazis motives, because to be it just seems like you are baselessly ascribing intents that they never actually expressed themselves like your some kind of time traveling mind reader.
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  342.  @brucebutler2746  There just is no evidence that can’t also be used to describe them as socialist, while you have to ignore tons of evidence to declare them not socialist.
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  343.  @brucebutler2746  I tend to find that most socialists don’t know what the definition of socialism is. Have you ever heard of Utopian Socialism?
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  344. Dam, TIK made a more recent video addressing those arguments.
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  345.  @rustyshackleford735  there’s nothing about corporatism that makes it incompatible with socialism, and the Nazis definitely weren’t controlled by the economic elite.
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  346. What misinformation does it spread exactly?
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  347. ​ @hobbso8508 what's the definition of socialism that he ignored half of?
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  348. ​ @Harrier_DuBois considering that TIK is a historian...
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  349. ​ @hobbso8508 and reddit? One of the last leftist strongholds on the Internet? Why should anyone take them seriously?
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  350. What has he gotten wrong?
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  351. Can you provide a definition that actually encompasses real world socialist states?
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  352. What are you talking about? My point was the Soviet Union purged all other classes just like how the Nazis purged all other races. Nazism is race based socialism and Marxism is class based socialism. Your tirade about them being nostalgic bulks at the face of their actual ideology, how their only goal was to invade east to get resources so they could establish a socialist utopia for the German, how they never made an effort to reinstate the Kaiser, and how they implemented extensive social programs and centrally controlled the economy. None of this was return to tradition.
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  353.  @andreoliveira6371  what does Putin have to do with anything, he isn’t ruling the Soviet Union why bring him up?
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  354.  @andreoliveira6371  so did Putin or Hitler believe that the economy would be better run by central control instead of market forces?
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  355.  @andreoliveira6371  because free market people say the state shouldn’t be doing that.
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  356. ⁠ @andreoliveira6371  all socialism has ever done was create oligarchies, so saying capitalism is bad for doing the same thing is ridiculous.
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  357.  @andreoliveira6371  Socialists say all rights are allowed only if they benefit the collective. This is what their dream state will be like. Libertarians say all rights are unrevocable even if they harm the collective. This is what their dream state will be like. While a better balance of the two could potentially be found, just out of the two I know which one I want to live in.
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  358.  @hobbso8508  but life is exploitation of labor, if you don’t exploit yourself for your labor you won’t have food. Profits just show that more value was created then destroyed. If you farm more then you eat your making a profit.
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  359.  @hobbso8508  why is the capitalist taking your excess?
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  360.  @hobbso8508  then what free market libertarians from market socialists?
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  361.  @hobbso8508  the best libertarian argument I’ve heard is that there should be only three things that are illegal, bodily harm, theft of property, and fraud. A government that’s limited to those three things would almost incapacitate of tyranny while also preventing tyranny from corporations.
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  362. I mean, fascists like being accurately represented, even by people who hate them.
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  363.  @J_GamerSP  what do you think about his take on the Nazi privatization myth?
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  364.  @healthmain  the Reichstag fire decree disagrees with you. 28 February 1933 the Nazis suspended private property. The only difference is that under Nazi rule stealing was still illegal, to anyone but the state that is.
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  365. How so?
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  366.  @lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598  your problem is you have to discard vast amounts of evidence because the source could have been lying. You don’t throw out sources because they are biased or could be lying, that is deeply unhistorical. A historian’s job is to look at the sources and fugue out their biases, once they know the bias they have to figure out how it distorts what’s being said. TIK is really good at that.
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  367.  @lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598  but there is no evidence that they were lying, no private conversations where anything slips. There are private conversations where he downplays his socialism, but also downplays his racism and antisemitism. Additionally the only people painting the Nazis as not socialists are other socialists after that war, those same socialists who were praising the Nazis socialism before and during the war.
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  368.  @lhumanoideerrantdesinterne8598  ​ try again. That’s what this video is about, going though the sources and showing how the Nazis implemented socialism. Additionally this is not about historical consensus. because you wouldn’t be much of a historian if all you did is fallow the consensus. TIK is challenging the post war narrative that the Nazis were in fact not socialists, the reason it hasn’t been widely challenged is 1, it’s a post war narrative, after a terrible war people want an explanation as to why it happened and will stick to the first one that they come across, and the first one that was widely distributed was the socialist narrative that Nazis weren’t socialist. 2 socialist historians have a vested interest in discontenting it, from after the war and to this day.
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  369. When has the workers ever owned the means of production in a socialist state.
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  370.  @chesthoIe  ​​⁠ and then in 1933 he suspended private property, so he lied to the elites to get their support for a bit before stripping them of their rights.
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  371. Wouldn’t that make every socialist country ever capitalist?
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  372.  @WhiteWolf126  read again, things were “privatized” into various Nazi organizations. The Nazis were the state and so a Nazi organization was a state organization.
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  373.  @WhiteWolf126  na, it’s taking it from one organization in the state to another organization that is more firmly in their control. It’s like packing the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court is a government organization, but it’s independent so you have to pack it to centralize it.
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  374. ⁠​⁠ @WhiteWolf126  ​​⁠ every owner of these “privatized” industries were Nazi party members. Provide examples if I’m wrong. Additionally the most aspects of running a business was outside private control, the state set prices, wages, employment, hours, and profits. This was to the point where Nazis abolished the concept of employers and employees and replaced it with leaders and followers.
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  375. ⁠ @WhiteWolf126  uh, most socialists kill off opposing factions of socialists. You can’t use Nazis killing socialists as an argument for why they weren’t socialist, additionally they purged the market liberals as well. They did not allow for private ownership unless it being Illegal to steal is private ownership. And finally they nationalized far more then they privatized and most industries only made a profit after the war.
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  376.  @WhiteWolf126  ye, but their ideology was based off of socialism. Marxists believe that workers are the contributing members of society and capitalists are parasites who only take from society. Nazis believe that aryans are the contributing members of society and Jews are parasites who only take from society.
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  377.  @marlkarx1757  I find that he’s proponents tend to have no idea of the terms they are using.
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  378.  @marlkarx1757  then enlighten me.
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  379. What’s wrong in particular?
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  380.  @nightrise45  how so?
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  381.  @nightrise45 that’s not the argument being made, try again after you watch the video.
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  382.  @johnd.2778  I can’t help but remember that it was the conservatives that planed the only assassination attempt on Hitler.
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  383.  @chromaticstorm787 simple, WW1 showed socialists the world over that people were more loyal to their nation or race then their class, so they tried to make a form of socialism based off of that.
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  384.  @chromaticstorm787 but they did call themselves socialists, it was in the vary name. Also ask yourself what would a race based socialism actually look like? What would a socialist ideology that abandoned the hierarchical view of the world that comes with class based socialism and instead focused on racial conflicts and Darwinism?
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  385.  @chromaticstorm787 privatization? what Privatization? The selling a few stocks while retaining full control?
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  386.  @chromaticstorm787 so what happened to “Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State.”?
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  387.  @chromaticstorm787 what rejection of socialism?
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  388.  @chromaticstorm787 how exactly does he reject socialism?
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  389.  @chromaticstorm787 uh, so he’s saying he’s reclaiming it from the Jews and remaking true socialism? How does that equal him rejecting socialism?
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  390.  @chromaticstorm787 what ideas are they rejecting? They both believe that if the contributors to society realized their shared interests they would ban together and purge the parasites. They both abandon individual rights for the sake of the collective. They both believe property is dependent on its use. Also where are you getting this idea that Hitler didn’t want to infringe on private property? He obviously did infringe on private property, excessively.
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  391. How so?
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  392.  @dely_y  he probably talks about it in his 4 hour video.
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  393.  @dely_y  he isn’t, he’s pointing out that the sources don’t support what historians are saying. Anyone who says the Nazis privatized the economy haven’t read the sources.
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  394.  @dely_y  So what sources back up their claims?
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  395. So did you watch the video?
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  396.  @tg4678 Dan, you’re not a Marxist, that’s for sure.
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  397. Did you actually watch the video?
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  398.  @hobbso8508  how so?
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  399.  @hobbso8508  socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and the free market is terrible (without computing that a centrally controlled economy is the only alternative). If you disagree then show me how socialism doesn’t follow those two core tenets.
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  400.  @hobbso8508  if you disagree, show me how socialism doesn’t follow those core tenets.
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  401. Well how were they not socialist then?
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  402. “Large industrialists backing the nazis.” Was this before or after it looked like they were going to win?
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  403.  @paulsame1124  20:00 covers this exact topic. Did you actually watch the video?
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  404.  @paulsame1124 how is it distorting the facts? Prior to coming to power the nazis were only supported by two industrialists, with the vast majority of their industrialist support coming when it already looked like they were winning.
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  405.  @hobbso8508  actually socialism is perfectly fine with extermination races, you just need to majority to vote on it.
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  406. That doesn’t explain why Hitler raved against liberalism.
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  407. Socialists kill socialists all the time, nothing new.
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  408. How so.
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  409. What do you think of their economic policy of synchronization?
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  410. What’s is the bullshit?
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  411. Where does he claim that capitalists tend to conquer other nations? Are you sure that he wasn’t just trying to explain Marxist thought?
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  412. They were not Marxists, they where socialists.
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  413. Isn’t that exactly what the Soviet Union did?
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  414.  @becklindholm8401  the video did in fact make that distinction, if you only watched it.
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  415.  @Rundstedt1  good analysis? My dear sir, you ignored all the good analysis.
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  416.  @dwizzi1724  your using the Marxist definition of socialism, the one that won out in the end. TIK righty states that socialism used to be much more diverse and that Fascism and Nazism were both subcategories of it. Additionally how does a whole control something? Who is defining what the whole is?
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  417.  @xtoll123  na, I could do that better.
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  418. When have socialists ever not hated other socialists.
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  419. 20:00
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  420.  @Schnoz42069 yeah, state capitalism… “State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes business and commercial (i.e., for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are nationalized as state-owned enterprises (including the processes of capital accumulation, centralized management and wage labor). The definition can also include the state dominance of corporatized government agencies (agencies organized using business-management practices) or of public companies (such as publicly listed corporations) in which the state has controlling shares.” Thanks for proving my point.
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  421.  @Schnoz42069 yeah, they weren’t communists, they were socialists, they socialized the means of production. All profits were socialized. What does socialized mean? For the Nazis it meant controlled by the national community, aka the state.
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  422.  @teresacastro1263 yeah? The left/right dichotomy is completely useless for describing reality.
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  423.  @Schnoz42069 is there any actual difference? By that definition the Soviet Union was privately owned.
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  424. Need I reminded you that the NSDAP was a organization with a strict hierarchy? To be in the upper echelons your had to be completely loyal to the Nazi party and fervently believe in its ideals.
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  425. What are you talking about?
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  426.  @cezarstefanseghjucan  what of the labor theory of value that’s inherently authoritarian?
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  427. Did you watch the video?
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  428. So what is socialism?
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  429. So you didn’t actually watch the video?
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  430. That’s blatantly false, his antisemitism was anticapitalism, he hated Marxists because be believed they were puppets to the Jewish capitalists, and his propaganda reflects this.
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  431.  @Azazin187 he problem is socialism isn’t democratization of the workplace, if it was it wouldn’t be called that. There are two kinds of socialists, those who believe socialism can be achieved naturally, and those who believe it’s has to be artificially created. The natural side believes that statelessness is possible, while the artificial side believes a state is needed to create and maintain socialism. Also can you provide any examples of TIK misrepresenting things because of a lack of context?
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  432.  @Azazin187 the problem here is your comparing two entirely different aspects and then saying they don’t match. Compare the ideology to the ideology, and the economy to the economy. Turns out the ideological roots of both ideologies are similar, Hitler believed in a lot of ideas that prevented him in believing in the free market like the shrinking markets theory. He actively sought to reduce the differences classes, to the point of forcing every company to create workers councils that could dictate what the employer had to do.
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  433.  @Azazin187  so your using a source that denies history? Even the sources you used sates that private owners didn’t actually control their companies, only choosing what and how they produced. The costs of materials and labor where sat by the sate, and the prices they could sell their good where also set by the sate. On top of that if a good was in high demand you had to go through extensive state bureaucracy to even attempt to buy it. Remember that nazism has nothing against the capitalist, their economic policy was synchronization, every aspect of society would be become socialized. Germans who weren’t properly socialized were sent to the camps and re-educated. Basically they didn’t care about classes as long as you were German and were a proper member of society.
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  434.  @Azazin187 socialism is only complex when you get caught up in all the obfuscation that socialists apply when talking about the ideology. Socialism is really simple and it uses a lot of tricks to make itself seem more complex then it really is.
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  435.  @Azazin187 he completely ignores thane fact that the Nazis suspended private property in 1933, what else I’m a supposed to assume but how he completely ignores the sources to fit his biased agenda.
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  436.  @ysbrand1114  can you provide sources for them privatizing anything?
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  437. And the Soviet Union didn’t do the same?
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  438.  @yaboi2639 how was he anti-socialist? Because I remember that Stalin also purged rival socialists from his party, so does that make him anti-socialist?
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  439.  @nicknolte8671 oh is not any of his sources on nazism not good enough for you?
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  440.  @nicknolte8671 so he goes directly to the historical sources? And they say the opposite of that all the scholars on fascism say? Well who do you think is wrong here?
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  441.  @nicknolte8671 when schoolers contradict themselves within a couple of sentences of making a statement, I I’m inclined to dismiss their subjective opinions.
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  442.  @lukelyon1781  most libertarians I’ve met are vary right leaning, and all of them agree that IP is idiotic.
    3
  443. What about utopian socialism, that existed before Marxism and clearly didn’t have the class based devisions.
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  444.  @kackbraten5390  I mean this is the shortened version, there’s a 4 hour version that goes into much more depth.
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  445.  @hobbso8508  Same as socialism. In fact Marxism is even more kleptocratic the the Nazis.
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  446.  @hobbso8508  so socialism has strong property laws?
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  447. Did you watch the video?
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  448.  @jeepers4202  what?
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  449.  @gerardmonsen1267  did you watch the video?
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  450. Uh, socialism amongst Germanic nations has always been more nationalistic. There is a reason Denmarks socialist party is against immigration. TIK has made a more recent video going more in-depth into Hitler’s disagreements with Gregor Strasser, the truth is Strasser also believed in German racial supremacy and all that.
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  451.  @Die-Sophie uh, you do understand that the national socialists were third positionists, if you are using a political spectrum.
    3
  452.  @bigbubbles55  but complete and total price controls without being at war is socialist policy.
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  453.  @bigbubbles55  One that every capitalist ever would tell you is awful. So why would capitalists create extensive price controls over the entirety of the economy while they weren’t at war?
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  454.  @bigbubbles55  but over everything? I can get one or too goods, but in Nazi Germany you name it, and it had price controls.
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  455.  @bigbubbles55  and I believe Fascism and Nazism were both sub ideologies of socialism because it doesn’t make sense for a radical reactionary movement to adopt every policy that they seminally were reacting against.
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  456. So where are the millions he killed?
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  457. Did you watch the video?
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  458.  @hans-joachimbierwirth4727  I fail to see how that’s idiotic, care to explain?
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  459.  @hans-joachimbierwirth4727  In my opinion if a nation has 3 of the fallowing I would consider them socialist. 1. ⁠They call themselves socialist. 2. ⁠They removed the government protections for private property. 3. ⁠They have a centrally planed economy. 4. ⁠Their core ideology is descended from socialism. TIK is wrong, but he is on the right track. Socialists are kind of backwards, they want to remove all the limits on the government that we made to protect us from abuse, basically returning us the the rule of absolute monarchs.
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  460.  @hans-joachimbierwirth4727  my labels may be arbitrary but can you tell me of a socialist country that doesn’t fit under my definition? Can you find a non-socialist country that does? If you can’t then my labels work and if you do then that helps me make my labels less arbitrary. Everything else you said is verifiably false, I mean you know about the weimar constitution right? Hitler had to suspend parts of it to seize property like he did, so what are you telling me that Germany had no limits on its government.
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  461.  @hans-joachimbierwirth4727  huh, I was saying do the governments call themselves socialist. Its so obvious you already know that. I don’t care if they were lying about their name or not, only that they did it. I would do the same with North Korea, do they have a constitution? Are there multiple political parties? Do they call themselves democratic? Do they have free elections? No. No. Yes. No. Congrats, not a democracy.
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  462. Wow, it’s almost like you didn’t watch the video…
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  463.  @CoIntelPro23 yeah you should probably watch it before commenting about something that was addressed. The entire video is a further investigation, so they call themselves socialists? What socialist stuff did they actually do? Quite a lot in fact, largest trade union in the world at the time anyone?
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  464. Socialism doesn’t allow unions to strike, prove me wrong.
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  465. Most of that complexity is explained when you consider them socialists.
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  466. What do you think about Utopian Socialism?
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  467.  @Chriscraft-ug3sz  Marx criticized other forms of socialist thought like the utopian socialism, and Bourgeois socialism. Only marxists believed that workers should own the means of production.
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  468.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme  what are you talking about? What economic crisis is being created by capitalism?
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  469.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme  and that’s capitalisms fault?
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  470.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme  the thing is when capitalism fails it actually learns from its mistakes, do you know there are free market solutions to economic collapses? Unfortunately the government makes it really hard to implement them.
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  471.  @sparky4405  uh, can you quote me on where that’s relevant?
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  472.  @hobbso8508  utopian socialism didn’t believe in the class struggle, and that tells me that socialism doesn’t need that to be socialism. It also makes sense that the Nazis took socialism and added the race struggle.
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  473.  @FreelancerND  the belief that things can only go forwards or backwards is backwards in of itself. Under that logic I believe that capitalism will transform into decentralized free markets. The first step is teaching large corporations how to be landlubbers.
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  474. So you didn't watch the video? And who's the American here?
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  475.  @hobbso8508 what would you do if you were a capitalist and a socialist was taking over your country?
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  476. I mean one of the first steps to be a historian is to look at the sources and question them.
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  477. for a few months after the night of the long knives the majority of all new members of the Nazi party were previously marxists, so it arguable that the party became even more marxist then before the purge. Additionally the whole point of socialism is tearing down a previous society and rebuilding it, both culturally and economically.
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  478.  @claudermiller  how is he wrong?
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  479. Can you refute any points in the video?
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  480. Tell me you haven’t watched the video without telling you haven’t watched the video.
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  481. ⁠ @Dumpsteret1 yeah, about that. Why were Nazis put in charge of these companies then? The trick the Nazis used was they forced everyone to believe in the Nazi case, then once you believed in the Nazi cause you would do what they wanted without them forcing you to. Also profits privatized? What profits?
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  482. The British practice slavery?
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  483.  @Arnie58  how does it conflict with socialist ideals?
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  484.  @Arnie58  why does socialism need globalism? And natural socialism did practice egality for the German worker.
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  485. I don’t see the point your trying to make. Capitalism is murderous, compared to what? Capitalism is fascist, compared to what?
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  486. What does capitalism mean to you?
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  487. When of any of what?
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  488.  @executivedirector7467  crony capitalism where the industrialists who actually supported Hitler before he came to power were removed in favor for political subordinates?
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  489. Besides the hierarchy thing, none of that sounds particularly non socialist. I mean what does far-right even mean in this case?
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  490. Does that video address the fact that the Nazis abolished private property rights?
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  491. The problem with that is socialism also doesn’t make the distinction between political and economic.
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  492. The fundamental difference is wither stealing is legal or not.
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  493.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  do you even know what a historian is? TIK isn’t really talking about political theory, he is talking about what they considered themselves, what they did, and who they were inspired by. You know, History. He developed a telling of history based on the sources he read, considering the biases of those sources.
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  494. Socialists kill other socialists all the time, nothing new.
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  495.  @Happycoreftw  do you have any contemporary sources that describe what the Germans did as privatization? The Nazis did it way before any war, so it’s not comparable to what the US did. Nothing in socialism actually defines the group that need to control the means of production, just that it must be controlled by the collective. Marxist were the biggest threat in Hitlers eyes, so he focused on them, like every socialist regime. Many of his subordinates actually complained about how he didn’t kill of the conservative elements, especially when they were the only ones who actually plained an assassination attempt.
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  496.  @psychedelicprimate8974 antifa obviously isn’t a nazi organization, it’s closer to the Paris Commune than any other movement.
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  497. Socialists always kill socialists, nothing new.
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  498.  @StefanNemec  but Nazis Germany was a plained economy, there was no market. And it was for the workers, the German workers. The Nazis believed in the labor theory of value just like the socialists. Maybe you should watch the video before committing under it.
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  499.  @StefanNemec  TIK brings up numerous sources centering your claims. You have anything against those?
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  500. He has a 4 hour video that goes into much more depth, including starting with the definition of socialism.
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  501.  @gingaluvsweed  and what did he promote exactly?
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  502.  @surge1229  second thought never addressed any of the points made in this or the other video, so I have to disagree.
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  503. Never said they were.
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  504. How?
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  505.  @gmodrules123456789  and TIK is vary explicit that Nazis weren’t Marxist.
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  506. What is a socialist reform?
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  507.  @othersidehistory336  The sources paint a clear picture of the Nazis being socialists, you have any arguments besides appeal to authority? I have educated myself on socialism, and it turns out that Nazism is just an offshoot of that, similar to Marxism. The most basic belief in socialism is that all of societies can be cured if humans are just socialized correctly, and the only thing holding us back from utopia is the corrupt society we live in.
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  508.  @othersidehistory336 fuck I see your comment, but it gets deleted by YouTube before I can comment. Ok here’s my response. The fact that the DAF had 32 million members kind of disproves you there, you don’t get that many members without it being mandated by the state. Additionally you have to take the Nazis at their word for the reichstag fire decree being use to target communists, something that you can’t do anywhere else.
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  509. Yeah, watch the video next time.
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  510. What are you talking about? Like I can see that in Europe, but in America?
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  511. They didn’t hate society as they defined society to be those who contribute to it, and they believed only aryans contributed to society.
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  512.  @Zakdayak  The problem with the privatization thing is no one at the time actually describes it as privatization. It was quite obvious to everyone at the time that they were nationalizing the industries via some shifty tricks.
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  513. TIK is using Marxism as a term for class based socialism because he actually read and understands Marx.
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  514. I mean he used to be a socialist and only stopped when he realized that Hitler was socialist, all the meanings/definitions were from when he was a socialist. Are you saying that the socialist definitions are wrong?
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  515. You probably should watch the video you are commenting under, he addresses the privatization myth, and the myth that capitalists maneuvered Hitler into power. I short, the source Wikipedia sights to describe the Nazis has privatizing things was a British magazine who wasn’t even there. And there were only two capitalists who could be described as supporters for the Nazis before they came to power, everything after January 1933 can be described as capitalists hedging their bets. Like if you were a capitalist and you knew a socialist government was going to take power, what would you pay them to keep your property.
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  516. Hitler’s thought his form of socialism was the true socialism and that all the others where secretly being controlled by the Jews (aka the capitalists, or liberals)
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  517.  @peng1965a  what’s so funny brother?
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  518.  @arnaudaerts1726  your degree was worth as much as you spent to get it. Tell me how the Nazis weren’t socialist?
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  519.  @arnaudaerts1726  it fits in with all their other social policies.
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  520.  @arnaudaerts1726  everything you said here is verifiably false as seen in the sources of this video. Rewatch the video and see how he addresses each one of these points.
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  521.  @arnaudaerts1726  they force them to join the party and make them monopolies.
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  522.  @arnaudaerts1726  also the Nazis had free markets? Who told you that? That’s is, just, what?
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  523.  @arnaudaerts1726  i doubt you university because they don’t teach you. Like what was their economic policy? Did you know that socialist back then applauded their centrally planned economy? Did you know their hatred of Jews and liberals was their hatred for capitalism? Their hatred for communism was because they believed it was controlled by the Jews, sounds familiar to your claims that the Nazis where controlled by the capitalists.
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  524.  @arnaudaerts1726  I am a market liberal and that makes me the farthest thing away from socialism and all its sub-ideologies.
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  525.  @arnaudaerts1726  pretty poorly, but I know what happens when when you try to control it.
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  526.  @hobbso8508  no, democracy requires the right to rule to come from the people, if the right to rule comes from any other source it isn’t democracy.
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  527.  @Admiral-General_Aladeen  yep, at least in Fascism and Marxism you could covert to the in group, but nazism was race based and you can’t change your race.
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  528.  @jacavanheesch4593  ​ claims Nazis weren’t socialist, simultaneously claims Soviets weren’t socialist. Don’t even know what liberal meant at the time, doesn’t realize that the conservatives were the only group who even attempted to assassinate Hitler. Completely disregards sources without providing evidence or reasoning. Don’t look like you know what you are talking about.
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  529. What did the left do that he hated?
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  530.  @sportstackeroctober2531  and the Soviet Union did?
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  531.  @sportstackeroctober2531  so no socialist country was ever socialist? Just a quick question, how do you know if a country has social ownership?
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  532.  @sportstackeroctober2531  that insinuates that socialism requires strong property laws.
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  533.  @hobbso8508  there is nothing is socialism that actually requires democracy, just social control.
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  534. Did you actually watch the video?
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  535.  @hobbso8508 the source on German privatization also says that only a few Nazi party members actually proposed privatization, and they were generally ignored.
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  536.  @hobbso8508 and the things the sold off where privatized in name only.
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  537.  @danielsandwhichpants1391 someone already responded far better then I could, but the Nazis economic policy was not privatization, it was synchronisation. The owners of these privatized industries were all high ranking members of the Nazi party, so they were parts of the organization that controlled the country. Basically what the Nazis did is identical to the Catholic Church getting in power and then selling off public goods to the the bishops and cardinals.
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  538.  @hobbso8508  so your telling me that defunding the police wouldn’t have had direct financial gains for the left? I mean someone had to replace the police and if the left had their way it would be social workers. The truth is the left push we see today was created by the dumb idea that everyone should go to college, because the truth is most people going there aren’t doing so to get skills to benefit society, but to get a random degree and check it off the box. These people that are going just to check off the box go for the easiest degrees they can find. But there is vary little demand for those degrees in the real world so these people are left high and dry so they started pushing to create more demand. Most of the left are bigots, but they have economic reasons to pretend not to be.
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  539. What’s a mess about this video?
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  540.  @mattheweagles5123  not an edit, but a condensed version that glosses over the main points.
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  541. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist? And why didn’t capitalists count?
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  542. What you say is socialism is in reality marxism. Socialism is much more broad, containing marxism, utopian socialism, bourgeoisie socialism, fascism, and nazism.
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  543. What are you taking about?
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  544.  @randomuser3481  I disagree with TIK for that reason, but there is no definition of socialism that includes the Soviet Union but also doesn’t include the Nazis.
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  545.  @randomuser3481  I wouldn’t call it private ownership, maybe synchronized ownership.
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  546.  @randomuser3481  he really didn’t, it’s more of the Germans should own the means of production, the same way Marxists believed that the workers should own the means of production, if the workers owns the company the the government wouldn’t mind as much and will take a bit more time to nationalize it. Same thing with the Nazis.
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  547.  @randomuser3481  isn’t that exactly what I just said?
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  548.  @WillyBraggTV  so a sub-ideology of socialism kills off other socialists? That’s exactly that TIK is saying.
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  549.  @WillyBraggTV  yep but that was never the argument, you said they killed the communists so they couldn’t be socialist, and I gave you examples os socialists killing other socialists.
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  550. Socialism is the social ownership of the means of production, I fail to see how Nazism doesn’t qualify.
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  551. Still not privatization.
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  552.  @666mrdoctor  Didn’t watch the video, and has no argument.
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  553. You should actually watch the video, he goes over that.
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  554.  @closetglobe.IRGUN.NW0  you sure those weren’t aristocrats?
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  555.  @closetglobe.IRGUN.NW0  you do know the aristocrats and the capitalists hated each other.
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  556.  @closetglobe.IRGUN.NW0  you really don’t understand socialism, like one of their whole things is describing history as a line of progress from feudalism to capitalism to socialism. The aristocracy was the land owning class, while business owners where the capital owning class.
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  557.  @BILISenjans  when he talks about why he makes these types of videos, it’s exactly what I said. There’s a massive gap in our understanding of why the Nazis did what they did and nothing fits that better the realizing that they were socialists.
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  558. Socialism believes rights are privileges that exist if they benefit the collective, this is the reason they can believe property rights are illegitimate, thus if the state is a workers state everything it’s doing is for the benefit of the workers, so if workers are fighting against it they obviously aren’t working for their own benefit and so would have their rights to fight against the state taken away. There’s a reason every socialist state bans private unions, strikes, and protests. The main mode of production was a planned economy that controlled every aspect of society.
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  559. How so?
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  560.  @jon82489  did you watch the video?
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  561.  @jon82489  Hitler didn’t bust the unions for the sake of the rich capitalists either. Where did you get that from?
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  562.  @jon82489  and we just say Hitler had race based socialism instead of class based socialism. Much simpler that way.
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  563.  @jon82489  “race based capitalism” now there is a oxymoron on multiple levels. I mean capitalism was a term invented by class based socialists to describe liberal economics.
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  564. Define socialism.
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  565. Socialism the the social control of the means of production. There is nothing internet in socialism that says the workers need to own the means of production, just as long as a social entity does.
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  566.  @sweetmyth2537  how so?
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  567. I think the reason TIK dropped socialism was because he realized that antisemitism was inherent to the ideology. Though I’m not him so I can’t tell you for sure. I personally believe that Hitler was a Marxist before he became a Nazi and so he infused the aristocratic socialism with workers socialism.
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  568. I reported several posts for the hate speech that they were. If yours was one of them I’m not sorry.
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  569.  @ast453000  like what? The privatization myth?
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  570. Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me you didn’t watch the video…
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  571. Did he hate leftists, or did he hate liberals?
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  572. @Pawwel Mussial but the Nazis had this plained economy years before the war, so it’s not comparable.
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  573.  @hobbso8508  so basically the only source that says it’s privatization was from a stanch anti-privatization advocate. No one, even the Nazis themselves called it privatization, only that guy.
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  574. How so?
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  575. What are you talking about?
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  576. Evenly distributed ownership that they were in the process of completely getting rid of? 7:00
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  577. Did you actually watch the video?
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  578. I’m pretty sure he went over this in the video.
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  579.  @Schnoz42069 you could provide a better argument then “oh the Soviet Union wasn’t actually socialist”.
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  580. How is he being stupid?
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  581.  @AWESOMERACECAR2013  half of all the likes here are from me.
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  582. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist?
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  583. These kinds of comments are hilarious, TIK made a 4 hour long video and you guys say that it’s gishgallop, so he made this video, and now you guys cry that he is cherry-picking.
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  584. I find that most socialists just use whatever made up definition they like, so try again.
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  585.  @shakey3306 what claim did I make that I didn’t back up? Because you could, I don’t know, watch the video you’re commenting under that backs it up with evidence.
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  586.  @BogdanBogdanovichBogdanov  so why was Marxism scientifically disproven on every level, every prediction it made turned out to be false. The Nazis did a similar examination for the world, but instead of using the lens of class, they used the lens of race.
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  587.  @BogdanBogdanovichBogdanov  the Aryan myth was a widely popular scientific theory at the time, to the point where large parts of Africa still believe it. It’s sudo-science the same way our old view on how the dinosaurs looked is sudo-science. Now about marxism, what predictions did it make that came true?
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  588.  @BogdanBogdanovichBogdanov  I love your insistence that Marxism was scientific, it was not. Marx started with the end point he wanted, a socialist revolution lead by the workers, and then worked backwards. He created a biased lens that he then used to look at all of history though, anything that didn’t fit this lens was ignored. Look at his views on religion. Marx’s understanding of feudalism was archaic at best, most of the problems he sighted to capitalism were products of feudalism.
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  589. You do know that socialist and capitalists have a sympathetic relationship?
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  590. @Van Brighouse I mean Corporate was originally a term for syndicalism so eh.
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  591. Then you clearly didn’t grasp what he was talking about, the name didn’t really matter, it was the fact that every aspect of society was synchronized under Nazi rule. Every part of society was controlled by the Nazi party, by the government at the time.
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  592. How so? They are seizing them for the working race.
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  593. ​ @hobbso8508 they did, they seized it for the working race.
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  594. ​ @hobbso8508 or someone representing the interests of the workers. See the Soviet Union.
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  595. ⁠ @hobbso8508  and you can’t represent the people if you don’t ask what their interests are. Oh wait a second. The US doesn’t even do that! Does that mean we are not a democracy?
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  596. If anyone understands Marxism it is a former socialist.
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  597.  @ПавелКольцов-г9с  I was talking about TIK.
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  598.  @brandonmorel2658  scientific definition of socialism? What in the world are you talking about?
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  599.  @brandonmorel2658  considering that most of them are working off of ww2 propaganda, I doubt their credibility.
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  600.  @brandonmorel2658  considering that have not been doing their duty as historians when it comes to the Nazis, I find it vary believable.
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  601.  @hobbso8508  the communist manifesto that existed before what you view as democracy existed, and yet your sitting here saying it’s advocating for that kind of democracy?
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  602. That’s why socialism is so stupid, after hundreds of years we finally created laws that protect us from being abused by the government, and what’s socialisms first idea? Take away all those protections because we believe in a objective theory of value.
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  603.  @265005  not really, free trade existed long before governments had the power to control them. There was a reason axial age religions popped up, global trade and money fundamentally changed society. If you got rid of the government today people would just fall back on axial age traditions.
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  604.  @meocean5499  how is it communism? Also it was vary much an axial ideal, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet neighbor’s house. Thou shalt not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor
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  605. So political scientists who have not studied the history of his ideology?
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  606. Considering that liberalism was established before socialism really was a thing, I doubt that.
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  607. Did you actually watch the video?
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  608.  @V555Vendetta  SO what’s wrong?
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  609. Doubt.
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  610. You should probably watch the video.
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  611. So how was he wrong?
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  612. How so?
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  613. Never said he didn’t.
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  614. The problem is they aren’t private individuals, they are men of the Nazi party, the state of the time.
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  615. this video is supposed to be a summary of the five hour one, defining socialism took up ten minutes there. So defining socialism here without bringing up all the sources would simply be ignored.
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  616. So where do they say they are anti-socialist?
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  617.  @StephenKershaw1 so you didn’t watch the video… Like what exactly? You make these claims, but history shows they didn’t exist. The Nazis are anti-Marxist, they claimed that it wasn’t real socialism and that they were real socialists. And just like any other socialists, they were vehemently against fake socialists.
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  618. How so?
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  619. I love how your ignoring the main point where TIK states that the Nazis weren’t Marxists, but they were socialists. Your claim about how socialism can’t be nationalistic is completely false, most socialist movements were ether nationalistic or imperialistic. Hitler’s national socialism was not fascism.
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  620.  @PantheraKitty  every socialist helps the elites, they have a symbiotic relationship.
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  621.  @PantheraKitty  so the nazi are socialist, because all the elites are were nazis.
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  622. True, though socialism doesn’t necessarily need to be about class, just see utopian socialism. National socialism probably had its roots dating back pretty far but it was Hitler who combined it with ideas from Marxism to create the version we all know and hate. Fascism had a different origin, though there are better people to talk about that.
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  623.  @saricubra2867  so what about utopian socialism?
    3
  624.  @saricubra2867  so a socialist ideology that existed before Marxism and wasn’t about class. You can’t except that because doesn’t fit your Marxist definition so you can’t say it was socialism.
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  625.  @saricubra2867  can you search it up, Utopian Socialism. Come back to me once you have.
    3
  626. ​ @charleymount582 so what precisely in utter nonsense?
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  627.  @charleymount582 dam, the sold off some of the shares, but maintained complete control over the business.
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  628.  @charleymount582 so could these people actually use the profits as they saw fit, or could they only use them in ways the benefited the state?
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  629.  @hobbso8508  and the duty of a historian is to look at the sources and question them. Questioning the sources quickly leads to TIK’s conclusions.
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  630.  @hobbso8508  it’s not ignoring sources, it’s looking at them critically. TIK talks about this extensively in another video, you never ignore sources, but you always question them.
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  631.  @hobbso8508  so what did he get wrong then?
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  632. Most socialists I’ve met are also that.
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  633. I think you missed out on a huge fact, they privatized public organizations into the hinds of Nazi party members, now remember that the Nazi party was a strict hierarchical organization where you had to believe in the same ideals and obey higher standing members, and this organization was the acting government at the time. So basically they took government assets that weren’t under their direct control and put them into their direct hierarchy.
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  634. Nazism wasn’t Marxism though, just socialism.
    3
  635. Did you watch the video?
    3
  636.  @jarrodf_  brah did you even watch the video?
    3
  637. Your making up a lot of stuff out of thin air. Try again.
    3
  638. Then can you provide some of the evidence, and it can’t have been refuted by this video.
    3
  639.  @heinrichpreussen  I find that your the ignorant one here, the Nazis made it legal for the state to steal, but not anyone else, and apparently that’s enough for you to say they still had private property.
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  640. Have anything else to add? Otherwise we can ignore your statement.
    3
  641. How so?
    3
  642.  @frenzalrhomb6919  So no arguments? did you actually watch the video?
    3
  643.  @rickglorie  TIC addressed this in the video, Hitler was a national socialist, socialism for the German.
    3
  644. This video was particularly made to counter arguments found in that video.
    3
  645. How so?
    3
  646. So what did he get wrong?
    3
  647.  @hobbso8508  wasn’t asking you.
    3
  648.  @hobbso8508  purely out of the fact that stealing was still illegal.
    3
  649.  @hobbso8508  I’m actually interested, how much did they go for?
    3
  650.  @kapitanpufferfish5164 no, democracies claim authority to rule because they were ordained by the people, it’s just like a king claiming authority to rule because they were ordained by god. Both things are basically sociological mumbo jumbo, but they are the core myths on which the country is built upon.
    3
  651. Can you point out the Soviet Unions woke gender programs?
    3
  652.  @evenbet9603  Socialism demands the removal of all restrictions on the power of the collective, so by nature it is authoritarian. So yes socialism can be democratic, but they won’t stay democracies for long, when they are eventually voted out of office they will have to centralize and wage war against the counter revolution.
    3
  653.  @rickglorie  ending private property in times of peace is socialist enough for me to consider them that.
    3
  654. It was never claimed that the Nazis were Marxists, in fact it was deliberately stated that Marxism, Fascism, and Nazism are distinct socialist ideologies.
    3
  655. How so?
    3
  656.  @diegogbox  what does it mean to own something?
    3
  657.  @diegogbox  ownership is control and the claim of control, private enterprises did not have control nor did they have a claim of control, so they did not have ownership.
    3
  658.  @diegogbox  No it isn’t. You are basically saying that the Nazi party rewards loyalty with the profits, and because the Nazi party dictates what the prices are they also controlled the profits made. Additionally because most of the business owners were replaced with Nazi party members, most of the profits were flowing into the public institution that was the Nazi party, to be used for the Nazis economic, social, and military goals.
    3
  659.  @rickglorie  then the question is, what makes the Nazis different from any other totalitarian socialist state?
    3
  660.  @hobbso8508  socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and a centrally controlled economy is more efficient and can achieve the first. Both of these combined together tell us that socialists can’t be democratic. Socialists believe their system is more efficient and moral, so anyone voting against it is voting against the self interest of the collective, and any rights that works against the self interest of the collective will be taken.
    3
  661. Getting on BadHistory is a metic for quality content.
    3
  662.  @Schnoz42069 and the state control’s society.
    3
  663. But the German industrialists were internationalists. Why would they support someone who hates Jews and wanted to end trade? They were Jews. They were the ones who engaged in international trade.
    3
  664. “Killing everyone on the left” you should rewatch the video.
    3
  665. Your missing the point, Hitler believed his version was the only true socialism and all others were pretenders.
    3
  666.  @hobbso8508 what if was state owned and privately managed? Like publicly traded companies are often owned by a collective, but are managed by a individual assigned by the collective.
    3
  667.  @hobbso8508 so a socialist state can’t grant limited ownership of a company to a worker as long as they do what they state says?
    3
  668.  @hobbso8508 so what happens when you do this for all the privately owned industries in the country?
    3
  669.  @hobbso8508 you do understand that state capitalism was created to describe socialist states under the Warsawpact, right?
    3
  670. Can you provide some cases where that happens?
    3
  671.  @gorkri9215 who do you think educated the fair right?
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  672.  @JuvianTV  got to love your “schooling”. I’ve done my research, most sources that make out Nazis as not socialist directly contradict other sources trying to do the same thing. Turns out most academia is working off of WW2 propaganda. Just look at the sources before the war, they would rightly point out nazism similarities to socialism, then during the war all the sudden the narrative changed to the modern one.
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  673.  @hoztravels2024 uh, so you didn’t watch the video…
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  674. Socialism is predicated on the belief that the central control of the economy would be more efficient and morally effective then letting the economy be determined by market forces.
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  675. What are you talking about?
    2
  676.  @rickglorie  Did you actually watch the video?
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  677.  @rickglorie  what about the Nazis makes them not socialists? They just took everything marxists say and made it about race instead of class. Why should the workers seize the means of production? Because in the eyes of the Marxist the workers are the contributing members of society and the capitalists are parasites that just leach off of it. This is the exact worldview that the Nazi had, just based on race. In the nazi worldview the aryans is the contributing members of society and the Jews are parasites that just leach off of it.
    2
  678.  @hobbso8508 all of those things are vital to the running of a modern society, so no wonder every attempt ended up as horrific dictatorships.
    2
  679.  @hobbso8508 talk to some actual socialists and not your “market socialist” buddies.
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  680.  @hobbso8508  I have and each one has a different opinion on what makes socialism, socialism. Not wander I don’t know what socialism is, socialists themselves can’t agree what it is.
    2
  681.  @hobbso8508 ctually, TIK, get off your alt-account and get some sleep. I know you’re doing all this arguing with people on your videos to drive up user interaction statistics, and while I like your videos this is kind of getting ridiculous.
    2
  682.  @hobbso8508  You should really talk to other socialists, more often then not they have fallen for the labor theory of value and have based their entire ideology off of it.
    2
  683. One major part of utopian socialism is how it didn’t view the world though the lans of class conflicts. So it’s responsible to assume that class conflicts are not inherent to socialism and that you probably could replace that conflict with a number of other ones, in this particular case radical conflict.
    2
  684.  @markfrederikbaksrensen8574  So what makes someone a historian then if it’s not studying sources and considering biases? You know, the stuff you are taught to do in college to become a historian.
    2
  685.  @markfrederikbaksrensen8574  you have yet to explain how he isn’t a historian.
    2
  686.  @markfrederikbaksrensen8574  History lays in the heart of the debate. Bringing up new viewpoints is literally what historians are supposed to do.
    2
  687. How is it propaganda?
    2
  688.  @hobbso8508  Being wrong doesn’t make it propaganda even if it was.
    2
  689.  @healthpsychologist we are not saying they are communists, we are saying they are socialists. Communism doesn’t equal socialism.
    2
  690.  @nathanmcbride1177 reprivatized to whom exactly, you will find that every historian will say they privatized them to organizations within the Nazi party.
    2
  691. You must remember that Corporatism is not Corporatocracy, just search up both of those terms. Basically Fascist Corporatism was a unification of all the separate unions and businesses in an industry into a single body called a corporation.
    2
  692. Any actual arguments?
    2
  693. ​ @Harrier_DuBois so yo didn't watch the video, where he backs that up?
    2
  694. ​ @hobbso8508 thus socialism cannot be anarchist? Or market based?
    2
  695.  @hobbso8508 according to you, socialism requires democracy, a form of government.
    2
  696. How so exactly?
    2
  697. Addressed in the first five minutes.
    2
  698.  @davidstrelec2000  you should really watch the video.
    2
  699.  @Landon.Trotsky  he wasn’t baked by big capitalists, in fact there was only one capitalist that supported them before their rise to power, and he was put in the camps. The rest were just hedging their bets when it became obvious that the Nazis were likely to win.
    2
  700.  @Landon.Trotsky  all of that was addressed in the video, so you made no point.
    2
  701.  @hobbso8508  and calling market socialists socialists is a misnomer.
    2
  702.  @hobbso8508  most libertarians actually believe unions and coops are good things. I don’t see how market socialists are actually against capitalists.
    2
  703.  @hobbso8508  but value doesn’t come from labor.
    2
  704.  @hobbso8508  no, value is a purely subjective concept. Everyone values things differently, that is self evident. Trade can’t be exploitative because it will only happen in both sides value what they are getting more then what they are losing. The common thread for all authoritarian socialists is that they believe that some value in the market is wrong, but the problem is the value of the market is the value of the collective, so all socialists want to destroy the market and impose upon everyone else their own values.
    2
  705.  @hobbso8508  the employer-employee relationship is not exploitative, the employees (should) provide labor and the employer (supposedly) provides an organization that can more efficiently use that labor. Of course now a days the internet makes it a whole lot easier for people to organize themselves, so more people can just bypass the employer.
    2
  706.  @hobbso8508  how do monopolies pop up and dominate markets without the state?
    2
  707.  @hobbso8508  but why were there more oil suppliers before monopoly laws were made then before?
    2
  708. TIK is just saying that the sources don’t support most historians.
    2
  709.  @timothyhouse1622  all of that was addressed in the video, please watch it before you make any arguments. For my original point, the sources don’t back up the claim that the Nazis privatized the economy or had any form of private ownership. Any historian who believes that hasn’t read the sources.
    2
  710.  @insanekos1 they hate communists because they are both socialists competing over the same ideas.
    2
  711.  @walterbailey2950  what are you talking, I was saying for a seemingly reactionary movement they implemented every policy they where seemingly reacting against.
    2
  712.  @walterbailey2950  and I’m saying they weren’t reactionaries.
    2
  713.  @walterbailey2950 my boy, policies that a anti-socialist reactionary wouldn’t support: ending private property rights, creating a national trade union that all workers were required to join, nationalizing the stock exchange, setting price and wage controls, creating a extensive welfare system.
    2
  714. Abolition of the law of value? Socialism is based off of objective value and wouldn’t work without it.
    2
  715.  @hobbso8508  How do you justify taking property from the rich?
    2
  716.  @healthmain  i don’t see how that refuses his claim.
    2
  717.  @healthmain  I’ve seen the argument that he hated Marxists and thought Marxism was a Jewish plot. He expressly says one of the reasons he hates Marxism is because it claims to be the only form of socialism.
    2
  718.  @healthmain  so was the Soviet Union socialist? If you say no then your redefining socialism yourself and so cant be a socialist.
    2
  719.  @healthmain  what did they do differently?
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  720. Doubt.
    2
  721. That’s doesn’t make any sense, how does centrally planing the economy make Nazi Germany have an advantage over everyone else?
    2
  722.  @hobbso8508  it’s still illegal to steal in most socialist states, so I don’t know what your talking about. Like private property doesn’t exist without private property rights.
    2
  723.  @hobbso8508  so did the Soviet Union, what does not having private property look like?
    2
  724.  @hobbso8508  there is not such thing as personal property, such an idea is antithetical to socialism if you understand the the concept of “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”.
    2
  725.  @hobbso8508  what’s stopping me from using my personal property for profit?
    2
  726. He used to be a diehard socialist, so if his definitions are bad your definitions are just as untrustworthy.
    2
  727.  @skeezicksz  what is the economic system of socialism?
    2
  728. What business decisions?
    2
  729.  @seandouglas5429  so basically the same thing as any other socialist factory, but now with a leader?
    2
  730.  @rickglorie  so that Nazis came for the fascists? Because if you didn’t know, the fascists were trade unionists. Basically socialists kill other socialists all the time, nothing new.
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  731. ⁠ @WhiteWolf126  there’s a reason I used quotes around the word privatized, because it wasn’t privatization. You have any sources for things being privatized outside state control?
    2
  732. ⁠ You say I have no idea what I’m talking about but then what’s your education? Like everything you say here is verifiably false, if private property was so important then why did they suspend it? Additionally you haven’t shown me a source proving me wrong, meanwhile you have been show numerous sources proving you wrong.
    2
  733.  @WhiteWolf126  all you have been doing here is repeating the same argument over and over. Even when shown evidence to the contrary.
    2
  734.  @WhiteWolf126  ​​⁠​⁠ So a Bolshevik describes the Nazis as behaving like socialists but can admit that it is socialism. But awakening the collective consciousness does have everything to do with culture and academia.
    2
  735.  @WhiteWolf126  ye, but what he describes is socialism, he just couldn’t admit to himself that Nazism is a sister ideology to his. Additionally the Nazis also removed all liberal thought, you know market liberals, the people who believe in free markets, private property, rights, and entrepreneurship?
    2
  736.  @OhNotThat  Ok, nothing you said actually contradicts what TIK is saying. TIK correctly figured out that fascism, marxism, and nazism are three separate socialist ideologies. Each takes the concept of the collective and assigns that to a different group. Fascism says the collective is the nation, marxism says the collective is the worker, and nazism says the collective is the German.
    2
  737.  @OhNotThat  he makes the distinction vary clear in his other videos, especially the 4 hour one that this one simplifies.
    2
  738. How so?
    2
  739.  @nightrise45  so you reject the sources he presets? Don’t look like you know how to study history.
    2
  740.  @nightrise45  the sources disagree with you. The scientific method disagrees with you. You can’t be more wrong.
    2
  741. @puppy one Private hands? There was nothing private about it.
    2
  742.  @johnd.2778  socialists weren’t the only ones sent to the camps, liberals, conservatives, aristocracy, they all were killed off in large numbers. The only reason Hitler don’t do it to the same degree to the conservatives was because he didn’t view them as a threat, much to the disappointment of other Nazis.
    2
  743.  @johnd.2778  socialists kill other socialists all the time, nothing new.
    2
  744.  @AceXINFAMY  socialists love killing other socialists, nothing new.
    2
  745.  @AceXINFAMY  I would have to ask how the Nazis were regressive?
    2
  746.  @AceXINFAMY  go back to what exactly? You will find that if they really were reactionaries, they did a piss poor job at it, literally enacting every policy that they were seemingly reacting against.
    2
  747.  @AceXINFAMY  you keep on saying that they want to go back to the good old days, but you can never describe what good old days they want to return to.
    2
  748.  @chromaticstorm787 so they were private in name only? That’s what we are saying, this privatization was privatization in name only.
    2
  749.  @freemindrebel isn’t that how all socialist states work?
    2
  750. Yet every socialist wants central planning, it’s the only alternative to the free market.
    2
  751. ​ @hobbso8508 so socialism can't be stateless?
    2
  752. ​ @hobbso8508 you just said it had to be democratic, aka it has to have a government.
    2
  753. Over and over again I see how you watch the video and just can’t comprehend what TIK’s talking about.
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  754. What parts of white Russia does this support?
    2
  755. I mean you are wrong, in a vary complex way.
    2
  756. But he wasn’t a social conservative, he wanted the permanent revolution. His was a social revolution. He did suspended private property, and he definitely removed markets.
    2
  757.  @glyndwr15  well you should watch the 4 hours video where TIK addresses all of that.
    2
  758.  @glyndwr15  and you don’t think families are the cornerstone of society? They are literally the foundation of social networks, if you change how that social network works every other social network would change around that.
    2
  759. He used that definition long before ever reading Mises, in fact he would’ve never heard of him it it wasn’t for you guys comparing them all the time.
    2
  760. ​ @tg4678 a proponent of workplace democracy is definitely not a Marxist, Marxim calls for central planning, something that's mutually exclusive with workplace democracy.
    2
  761.  @tg4678 so you haven’t read Marx?
    2
  762.  @tg4678 so what if a brach of socialism decided that class conflict wasn’t uniting the people, and so switched to race conflict?
    2
  763.  @tg4678 uh, they didn’t switch to an ideology that opposed socialism, they created a new ideology out of socialism… It would be like saying Mormons are anti-Christians, because they abandoned the nicene creed and added their own ideas. Nazism identified that Germans were powerless to the Jewish elite who were exploiting them (this idea is exemplified by the stab in the back theory), in fact in their eyes the Jews corrupted socialism to deliberately divide Germans into classes to make them easier to control and exploit. The Nazis never wanted slavery, because according to them, if you could work, you were Aryan. Additionally if you were not Aryan, you were incapable of working. If a group of people are incapable of working, they can only parasitize and exploit those who can, so it’s for the benefit of the rest of society to remove them.
    2
  764.  @Cubeforc3  so the Bolsheviks weren't socialists? its beginning to look like you chose facts to fit your world view. I mean at the end TIK explains that he used to be a socialist and then he realized that the holocaust only worked if Hitler was a socialist, and so to not be a holocaust denier he had to admit Hitler was a socialist.
    2
  765.  @Supernautiloid  i haven’t seen anyone debunk it, could you provide an example.
    2
  766.  @paulsame1124  l’m pretty sure they funded one of the parties members and not the party itself, but even if I’m wrong, when did they fund it? Additionally how is this any different from the Soviet Union? They also were funded by Wall Street and their ideological enemies. Can I say the Soviet Union is monarchist?
    2
  767.  @paulsame1124  I’ve been looking for some sources of that but can’t find any, where can I find them? The only source so far that isn’t locked behind a paywall is Wikipedia, and I can’t get any exact dates that can confirm or deny my theory. Additionally would it be fair to call the Soviet Union monarchist?
    2
  768.  @spencerjohnson5871 ​​⁠I love how you say TIK is using modern definitions to say the Nazis were socialist, but then go on to use modern definitions yourself to define Nazis as not socialist. Like you pointed out that socialism at the time wasn’t completely attached to the idea of worker ownership, then went on to use worker ownership to say they weren’t socialist.
    2
  769.  @spencerjohnson5871 sure, but Hitler was still socialist, like how early Christian sects that didn’t believe in the resurrection would still be Christian.
    2
  770.  @spencerjohnson5871 ”a political ideology that believes in the common control of the means of production” is exactly what the Nazis believed, like did you watch the video?
    2
  771.  @hobbso8508 you have evidence for that?
    2
  772.  @hobbso8508 no socialist has ever believed in common control, otherwise they would’ve had democracy before.
    2
  773.  @hobbso8508 care to provide an example?
    2
  774.  @hobbso8508 yet worker cooperatives don’t call themselves socialist. How come? Like if collective ownership can include coops, then it can also include publicly traded companies.
    2
  775.  @hobbso8508 but publicly traded companies are still collective ownership.
    2
  776.  @hobbso8508 will you kindly google the definition for common ownership and collective ownership?
    2
  777.  @hobbso8508 so the only difference is that one is controlled by the state (common ownership) and one is controlled by the collective (collective ownership).
    2
  778.  @hobbso8508 wow look at me being wrong! Thanks for the correction. So say a kingdom was controlled in common by all members of the royal family, with all members of the family having an equal and indivisible, would that classify as common ownership?
    2
  779.  @hobbso8508 but that was never in the definition of common ownership.
    2
  780.  @hobbso8508  when the state is the collective, you don’t need collective action.
    2
  781.  @hobbso8508  well it’s still the problem of objective value. Socialists can’t allow strakes because that means value is subjective and their theory that capitalists are stealing their surplus labor has nothing to stand on. So it’s ether admit that their ideology is wrong or class those who are protesting as dissidents fighting the revolution.
    2
  782.  @TCFC2  what wouldn’t I understand?
    2
  783.  @ianwhitchurch864  actually he didn’t, there was like two industrialists who supported him before his rise to power, and they were quickly removed from their positions.
    2
  784.  @ianwhitchurch864  not really, if you pissed off the party in any way you would be removed and replaced with a party member. They got to keep profits because they were party members, so the money was flowing into the state anyways. Additionally the state determined what profits you could make when they decide how much you can by things for, how much you can sell things for, and how much you have to pay your workforce.
    2
  785.  @ianwhitchurch864  they did this years before the war, so you can’t say it’s a wartime measure.
    2
  786.  @ianwhitchurch864  try again, in Nazi Germany the average employer owns their company as much as you own apple with a non-controlling share.
    2
  787.  @ianwhitchurch864 but the Nazis weren’t at war when they took control of the economy.
    2
  788.  @PantheraKitty  if you read The Vampire Economy it’s pretty obvious, if you read Hitler’s beneficiaries it’s pretty obvious. It’s only not obvious because socialists obfuscate it and invent terms to distance themselves from it.
    2
  789. But why go to war?
    2
  790.  @kevkuehnertskuelerkuehlschrank  but if he wanted to accomplish any of those, why go to war with Russia?
    2
  791.  @rtmclean484  do you know what he was talking about when he said corporations?
    2
  792. One of the major aspects of socialism is taking the rights of the individual for the betterment of the collective, turns out that the right to vote is often included. Additionally nazism is an ideology of inclusion of the contributing members of society and rejections of parasites, same as Marxism.
    2
  793.  @adrijan6510  that’s marxism boy.
    2
  794. How did you miss this?
    2
  795.  @hobbso8508  if eliminating the right to private property isn’t how you eliminate private ownership, then what is?
    2
  796.  @hobbso8508  but how do you do it?
    2
  797.  @CANNNIBALIX  Oh, I’m actually interested, what is some of the stuff you heard when you were a kid?
    2
  798.  @CANNNIBALIX  so basically Germany used socialist policy and stole from other countries to pay for it by exporting their inflation, the same thing that America has been doing since the end of the war?
    2
  799.  @CANNNIBALIX  to pay for your own socialism, all the social policies cost a lot to maintain. Why would capitalist need weapons when they can trade for the goods?
    2
  800.  @stopusingmyaccountonyoutub9442 I don’t think you actually watched the video you are commenting under, like how did you miss the fact that the Nazis ended private property in 1933, you know, years before they went to war.
    2
  801.  @Schnoz42069 here’s a better question, how exactly would a collective make decisions with the property they all own?
    2
  802.  @Schnoz42069  wouldn’t that require an institution, especially considering how many people are a part of the collective?
    2
  803.  @Schnoz42069  what do you think is a state but the institution that is used to govern society?
    2
  804.  @Schnoz42069  sure, but the state is society + government, and democracy as your describing is a government.
    2
  805.  @hobbso8508  and you have presented no evidence of your case.
    2
  806.  @hobbso8508  yet you can’t provide any.
    2
  807.  @hobbso8508  yes, and he explains why he disagrees with the sources while still using them.
    2
  808. Great stuff to collaborate with this video.
    2
  809.  @Rundstedt1  like the Soviet Union?
    2
  810.  @xtoll123  ye, socialism works under capitalism, but it would never work independently. Also your misrepresenting libertarians, their point is that if the government can do it, shouldn’t I be able to do it, and if I can do it why should use the government to force others to do it. If you want affordable healthcare get rid of all the laws deliberately made to decrease supply, including IP laws. After that we need to change how we pay doctors so they are actually incentivized to keep us healthy.
    2
  811.  @xtoll123  it was never a thing of right and wrong, it was a simple saying of anything the government can do I could do better. Is the government needed to protect private property, na I can to it better.
    2
  812.  @xtoll123  have you ever considered the reason every socialist country falls to a dictatorship is because socialism requires the removal of all restrictions on government power? The truth behind both things is we need strong constitutions limiting the powers on both big businesses and government. These limits shouldn’t be able to be changed and should focus on giving the individual the most power.
    2
  813. It’s more like these members of the Nazi party are representatives of the state when they are given those industries. If the state ever needed to they could and would revoke them.
    2
  814.  @teresacastro1263 the Soviet Union was also racist and nationalistic. Was it also right wing?
    2
  815.  @Schnoz42069 state capitalism is a type of socialism.
    2
  816.  @Schnoz42069  “Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.” “State capitalism is an economic system in which the state undertakes business and commercial (i.e., for-profit) economic activity and where the means of production are nationalized as state-owned enterprises (including the processes of capital accumulation, centralized management and wage labor).” Are you sure about that?
    2
  817. Do you have any sources to back up your claims?
    2
  818. Back then there was no difference between the nation and the people of the nation. And how do you know something is for the good of the people?
    2
  819. Well let’s try some things. When did anyone at the time call what the Nazis were doing privatization?
    2
  820.  @cezarstefanseghjucan  feudalism, capitalist? Explain.
    2
  821.  @angryatheist  you should really watch the video.
    2
  822. But they still had property rights, Right? They could still sue the government for misappropriating property, right?
    2
  823.  @dagothur3592  you should probably rewatch the video then.
    2
  824.  @dagothur3592  3:00
    2
  825. This guy is British.
    2
  826.  @arnodobler1096  so what did he get wrong?
    2
  827.  @arnodobler1096  you need to go back to school then.
    2
  828.  @coffeyvov2020  marxism is just one form of socialism, class based socialism at that, the Nazis were race based socialists. Like really you have watched his videos yet haven’t picked of on this argument?
    2
  829.  @coffeyvov2020 ga, YouTube doesn’t like me saying anything about killing off stuff. So let be try again. ​​⁠but wanting to remove the parasites who are draining wealth from the contributors is socialism, what to you think the whole hatred for capitalists is about? Like marxism is about removing the parasite class to free the contributing class, while Nazism is about removing the parasite race to free the contributing race.
    2
  830.  @coffeyvov2020 I got to hear what you think some of these capitalists lies are. Like socialists want to genocide all other classes, and a common way of genociding a group is through reeducation. Thus sending the capitalists to work camps to “teach them to work” is genocide.
    2
  831.  @63Limar  but then they would’ve done that, but no. Their propaganda was purely just “Jews are controlling the communists, if it weren’t for the Jews we wouldn’t be at war with them.”
    2
  832.  @hobbso8508  true, my parents have fallen for the antisemitic conspiracy theories themselves and I wouldn’t call them socialist.
    2
  833.  @63Limar  you probably don’t know any Nazi propaganda. TIK recently made a video going over some of it. Though truth be told he only went over a few, so if you can provide good counter examples refuting his claims I would appreciate it.
    2
  834.  @Azazin187  socialism is the belief that humans are naturally good and that it’s society that corrupts them, so if you remove all corrupting influences from society you would create a utopia where everyone’s equal, the state is not needed, and property is owned by everyone. Tell me how are the nazis not economically socialists? They centrally planned the economy and created the largest labor union in history. The privatization myth is a falsehood based off of the sayings of a few low ranking Nazis. I’m not arguing that the modern sources are marxist, but that they are basing their claims off of biased sources while not critically examining them.
    2
  835.  @Azazin187 there are numerous sources showing that the owners of the companies had little to no control over their companies. TIK has a video on it.
    2
  836. State directed private ownership economy? Are you even reading your own quotes? That’s quite literally central planning by another name. Additionally nothing about socialism actually says you have to be egalitarian, socialists are actively aggressive against the parts of society they believe corrupt it. Marx invented the whole idea of class socialism and codified most of these egalitarian aspects, but he was only one branch of socialism that existed at the time. Several other smaller branches went on to become fascism and national socialism.
    2
  837.  @Azazin187 ​​⁠​⁠​​⁠eh, many socialists at the time of Marx where trying to incorporate this new Darwinism thing, which is where Social Darwinism ​originally came from. ​⁠For the ethno-nationalist side check out the völkisch national socialists. These were the socialists who originally created the nazi party, and the socialists who were so often cited as being purged during the night of the long knives were völkisch national socialists.
    2
  838.  @Azazin187  the reichstag fire decree literally is the suspension of the right to private property. Where are you getting the idea that Hitler upheld private property from?
    2
  839. ⁠ @Azazin187 I don’t really know who those people are? Do they believe that all of societies ills can be cured if humans are socialized properly? If yes then they are socialists.
    2
  840.  @ysbrand1114  capitalism destroying the earth sounds a lot like antisemitism. And socialism doesn’t care about human rights ether, if you had your perfect democratic socialism I hear you guys crying about, then you could vote to exterminate any minority you like.
    2
  841.  @ysbrand1114  what are you talking about? Just because you haven’t heard about the terrible working conditions in the Soviet Union doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And the Soviet Union did more to damage the environment then any single company ever.
    2
  842.  @ysbrand1114  never said it was, but you know nothing about the USSR, all you know about is the atrocities caused by the US, where information is actually free. Digging up the atrocities from the USSR is significantly harder, but they have a lot more of them, so try it.
    2
  843.  @yaboi2639  so if a branch of socialism can behave almost exactly like fascism, what’s to say that fascism wasn’t also a brach of socialism. Most of the leading members of fascism were previously socialists, so there is an ideological linage to socialism that all fascist like ideologies have.
    2
  844. So can you name other economic systems?
    2
  845.  @ajax2181 when half of those are just different flavors of socialism…
    2
  846. ⁠ @ajax2181 so the Soviet Union was followed corporatism? And Cuba?
    2
  847. What’s wrong?
    2
  848. Did you actually watch the video?
    2
  849.  @lukelyon1781  so the only difference is that it was illegal to steal? That doesn’t sound like it’s too big of a difference, in fact I’ve talked to many socialists who claim that socialism can have property rights in this vary comment section. It seems to me you have a vary surface level understanding of this. Also most libertarians hate IP laws, don’t view them as actual property.
    2
  850.  @lukelyon1781  everything that you said makes socialism different from fashion was exactly what the fascists did, if you only watched the video you would’ve seen that.
    2
  851.  @lukelyon1781  yeah, that’s were I differ from libertarians, the main reason the government is so good is because it’s limited on what it can do, supposedly. I will only support a corporation when it have the same limits as the government.
    2
  852.  @kackbraten5390  I mean the definition of socialism is the collective control over the means of production, and well, everything is a means of production.
    2
  853. You should actually watch TIK’s videos, they cover that.
    2
  854. And ignore all quotes from the big corporations who disagree with you.
    2
  855. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist? Because socialists kill other socialists all the time.
    2
  856.  @Jenseduca what deleted comments? Maybe it’s you who is the lier.
    2
  857.  @walterbailey2950  so what about liberalism, you know, capitalism.
    2
  858.  @oscartang4587u3  don’t forget that you would need a Nazi party official to monitor your establishment.
    2
  859.  @hobbso8508 that would be mercantilism, the precursor to capitalism.
    2
  860.  @hobbso8508  we already have a name for “state capitalism” and its mercantilism.
    2
  861.  @hobbso8508  the what exactly is state capitalism and what makes it different?
    2
  862.  @hobbso8508  aah, so socialism with a veneer of capitalism.
    2
  863.  @hobbso8508  my boy, socialism is based out of the labor theory of value.
    2
  864.  @hobbso8508  then what is socialism? If you say democratization of the workplace, I’m sorry to tell you, but that is also capitalism. Nothing about capitalism says you can’t have democracy in the workplace.
    2
  865.  @hobbso8508  why do they have to be egalitarian? Marxism certainly wasn’t. I’m pretty sure my definition fits better. Socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and the free market is terrible (without understanding that a centrally controlled economy is the only alternative).
    2
  866.  @hobbso8508  socialism believes all rights are privileges, and their existence depends on if they support the collective, socialists believe property doesn’t support the collective so they don’t believe it’s a right, and it’s only a small jump from that to consider voting and speech to not be rights. Socialists believe you can give rights, capitalists believe you can only take rights. Free market socialism doesn’t believe in private property, the single thing that allows markets to operate. Free market socialism still relies on central planing to control investing.
    2
  867.  @hobbso8508  how so? Do you even know what free market socialism is? From what I read it’s when the government owns the business, but production and consumption is determined my market forces. So basically the government controls how things are invested.
    2
  868.  @hobbso8508  that’s the kind of thinking that makes you a socialist, you believe all rights are things that have to be given, meanwhile capitalists believe rights are things that the government can’t do. Rights are basically government obligations, negative rights are where the government is obligated to not do something, while positive rights are where the government is obligated to do something. The only place for positive rights is when the government is going to take away a negative right, where basically they have to do X Y and Z otherwise they can’t take your negative rights.
    2
  869.  @hobbso8508  then most libertarians are also market socialists. Which is why I don’t believe market socialists are actually socialists, they are just Worker Coop libertarians.
    2
  870.  @hobbso8508  what is capitalism then?
    2
  871.  @hobbso8508  ah, so that’s where we are. Congratulations you are using the correct, but not socially excepted definition of capitalism. It’s also where you prove yourself wrong, because the state is the public sector, it is the collective. So state capitalism is an oxymoron.
    2
  872.  @hobbso8508  Claiming socialism needs the people’s representation gos against every socialist regime. Honestly the more I learn about socialism the more I’m convinced that it is a religion, on one side you have the moderates like the libertarian or market socialists, who abandoned most of their core tenets. On the other side you have Nazis and Marxists, who believe that society was built/corrupted by the parasites so they could parasitize/oppress of the contributors, so we need to overthrow the current society and replace it.
    2
  873.  @hobbso8508  but it was socialist, they just used a different definition then you. Additionally the followed Marx"s dream of destroying the old oppressive society to create a new one, it just tuns out that marx's ideas don't create a free society.
    2
  874.  @ad3l547 uh, you do know they abolished private property for everyone?
    2
  875. TIK makes it vary obvious that Nazism isn’t Marxism. You should actually watch the video.
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  876. What are you talking about? Are you the guy who called TIK a Hitlerite?
    2
  877.  @thetinkerfloof  there were socialists before Marx, the utopian socialists are one notable example, they didn’t believe in the class struggle. That’s a big thing because it means socialism doesn’t need the class struggle to be socialism, it also means you could add something else and it will still be socialism. TIK’s point is Hitler took the more base idea of socialism and added the race struggle, much like how Marx took the base idea and added class struggle.
    2
  878.  @CoIntelPro23 yeah, name a socialist state with free trade unions, that’s right there is none.
    2
  879.  @CoIntelPro23 no, but you can’t use the fact that the Nazis didn’t have free trade unions to prove they weren’t socialist.
    2
  880.  @CoIntelPro23 exactly, so what can we use? The fact they had the biggest trade union in history, the DAF had 32 million members.
    2
  881. ⁠ @CoIntelPro23 so, a socialist state won’t force you to be a member of its state backed union, and this union would actually represent you instead of requiring the state for its authority?
    2
  882.  @CoIntelPro23 so where’s your homework? TIK has a video covering this exact topic.
    2
  883. ​ @CoIntelPro23  I mean I'd rather not rewatch the video again to find the exact quotes refuting your argument.
    2
  884.  @walterbailey2950  what?
    2
  885.  @walterbailey2950  no, I have no idea what your responding to. Like everything you said doesn’t actually apply to anything I said.
    2
  886.  @NullParadigm  I’m vary picky on what I call socialism, it needs to. 1. Call it self socialism. 2. Not have private property rights. 3. Centrally plain the economy. 4. View history and economics though a single collectivist lens.
    2
  887. What do you think of Utopian Socialism?
    2
  888. Did you know that the Nazi suspended the right to private property? And is it really a private corporation when prices and wages were set by the state, the employees and employers were forced into the public union, and at the slightest sigh that you where disloyal you would replaced by a self described socialist?
    2
  889.  @ronielaledo4521  the Reichstag Fire Decree disagrees with you, check it out and pay attention to the number 153. Also you should watch the video if you dare, it goes in depth in how you are wrong.
    2
  890.  @ronielaledo4521  so what do you think of utopian socialism?
    2
  891.  @FreelancerND  yeah, because the Israeli far right loves the Nazis.
    2
  892. But it’s real fun to own people, “the Nazis privatized their industries” you have a source for that?
    2
  893.  @HookedonChronics  yeah, they had the choice between the socialists who had ties to Moscow and the socialists who did not.
    2
  894. Wow it’s like capitalist will bribe their way into the hands of socialist states, who would’ve guessed. It’s not like he already seized power by that point.
    2
  895.  @hobbso8508 why would they buy it from you when they can just take it in a few months?
    2
  896.  @nicknolte8671 and it’s also historical consensus that the Nazis were largely a grassroots movement and only got funding from capitalists in the eleventh hour.
    2
  897. But Hitler wasn’t insane.
    2
  898.  @cristianm7097  throughout the war he made vary sound decisions, so I don’t believe that.
    2
  899. You should watch the video then.
    2
  900. ⁠ @hoodvaavdooh you really should watch the video.
    2
  901.  @rickglorie  I’m pretty sure central planning was a socialist policy then, so are suspending private property in times of peace and taxing the rich to pay for expensive welfare programs. Additionally the claim was that Nazism was race based socialism, a distinct sub-ideology from class based socialism that was Marxism.
    2
  902.  @rickglorie  in Nazi Germany private property rights did not exist at all since 1933, not just for the Jews but for everyone.
    2
  903. To be a historian you have to look at the sources and consider their biases, Adam Tooze was a socialist, so his conclusion that Hitler wasn’t a socialist is suspect.
    2
  904.  @robmoss8198  Did you watch the video? The Nazis did brake down class hierarchies and redistribute wealth. Also if killing socialists made you not one, what about Stalin or Mao, were they not socialists? I find it a lot more believable that Hitler lied to the German elites about how socialist he was, because he lied to them about literally everything else while keeping most of his promises he made to the German worker.
    2
  905.  @robmoss8198  TIK has another video that gos in depth how Hitler really didn’t kill off all the socialists, he just forced them to become Nazis.
    2
  906. I mean if they were socialists then forcing all socialists to become their particular brand of socialism would include themselves, and they did that.
    2
  907.  @Dumpsteret1 so who owned these companies?
    2
  908.  @endloesung_der_braunen_frage  I mean Marx was vary antisemitic, and many of his colleagues were experimenting with involving Darwinism into their theories.
    2
  909.  fastrally  slavery was a byproduct of nobles colonizing America, the British themselves didn’t particularly care for it.
    2
  910.  fastrally  that video was hilarious, try again!
    2
  911.  @johnHofweber  but the British and most of Europe hated slavery compared to the rest of the world.
    2
  912.  @Arnie58  true, but socialism doesn’t believe that value should dive the economy, but some mythical utility. There can be no democracy because there is an objective utility, and if anyone votes or protests against this utility they are objectively wrong and so will be ignored. You can’t use the suppression of the worker as a reason why the Nazis weren’t socialist because that’s baked into socialism as a whole.
    2
  913. How?
    2
  914.  @pmcomputer1  while we have fascist elements, we are definitely not fascist. We are more akin to late republic Rome.
    2
  915. Na, I’ve been reporting blatant hate speech, so not sorry.
    2
  916. So jews are not Communists?
    2
  917. Dam, try watching the video first.
    2
  918.  @executivedirector7467  there were only two industrialists/bankers that supported Hitler before he came to power, and both of them fond themselves in construction camps pretty quickly. This point was addressed in the video.
    2
  919.  @executivedirector7467  So how do you define ownership?
    2
  920.  @oscartang4587u3  oh, I’ve haven’t heard of it. What’s it about?
    2
  921.  @basert1202  can you do that for marxism?
    2
  922. The books he’s reading are the sources used by historians.
    2
  923.  @afridge8608  how so?
    2
  924. But libertarian socialists aren’t the only kind of socialist.
    2
  925.  @kapitanpufferfish5164 well considering that capitalism is not an economic system it couldn’t have killed anyone.
    2
  926.  @kapitanpufferfish5164 tell me, what is capitalism?
    2
  927.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  he used to be a socialist before coming to this conclusion. So can you provide a definition of socialism that’s better then his? That reflects the actions of real world socialists?
    2
  928.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  why is it impossible to there to be socialism for a race?
    2
  929.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  so the only difference between the two ideologies is one views the world and history through a lans of class conflicts, and the other views the world and history through a lans of race conflicts. TIK actually explains this pretty well, socialism used to be a much broader term, but the Marxist version won out in the end.
    2
  930.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  TIK actually explains this pretty well, socialism used to be a much broader term, but the Marxist version won out in the end, leading to what we have now.
    2
  931.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  it looks like you know northing when it comes to political history.
    2
  932.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  ​ What of the Utopian socialists?
    2
  933.  @SvalbardSleeperDistrict  it is quite obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.
    2
  934.  @urielpolak9949 Hitler’s goal was to achieve socialism for the Germans, and that meant invading the Soviet Union. Your saying his goals didn’t align with his ideology when it’s his ideology that made his goals.
    2
  935.  @hobbso8508  the concept of the products of labor only works under a labor theory of value, which has been thoroughly discredited by economists.
    2
  936. How so?
    2
  937.  @jovicamateric7756  I’ve spoken to half a dozen socialists here and each came up with a mutually exclusive definition that has no historical basis.
    2
  938. And where does Nazi ideology ever say that?
    2
  939.  @corn.3892 where did he advocate for a racial hierarchy? I’m pretty sure he wanted to make a workers hierarchy, where the best workers are at the top and those who can’t work would be exterminated.
    2
  940.  @funnyyellowdog8833 ​​⁠except Hitler makes it clear that once he achieves autarchy he could then create true socialism. If you read any of their words, in public or private, they say they ideologically want to do welfare. Additionally they want to go out there nationalize everything, but the people would be against that and would rebel.
    2
  941. What are you talking about?
    2
  942.  @gingaluvsweed  Why I’m confused is that why would that refute any of TIK’s arguments. TIK says that Fascism, Nazism, and Marxism are three distinct Socialist ideologies.
    2
  943.  @gingaluvsweed  so what was the Nazis goals? I would like it if you could back it up with quotes.
    2
  944.  @gingaluvsweed  well?
    2
  945. Socialism predates Marxism’s class centric socialism, so it’s quite believable that a different set of people made race centric socialism. Also liberal at the time meant free market.
    2
  946.  @xerpenta  but Nazism was a from of scientific socialism. Many of Marx’s colleges dabbled with including the new scientific theory of Darwinism into their ideas, so it’s no wonder a race based socialism was born years later.
    2
  947.  @xerpenta  The argument was never that it was Marxism, but it was a sister scientific socialist ideology.
    2
  948. Well what did he get wrong?
    2
  949.  @PINMEDS  Are you sure? I’m pretty sure he defines socialism on multiple occasions, though that was probably in other videos.
    2
  950.  @hobbso8508 so by default unions cannot be nationalized, because the moment they do they become subservient to the state.
    2
  951. Industries were made private to facilitate the economic policy of synchronization.
    2
  952.  @rickglorie  nazism wasn’t marxism, that was never a claim made in this video. Marxism and Nazism are two different branches of socialism, one based around class and the other race.
    2
  953.  @rickglorie  that comment never makes the claim either.
    2
  954.  @surge1229  have you ever considered that the political spectrum is blatantly false and don’t describe reality?
    2
  955.  @surge1229  That just sounds like religious thinking, there is nothing horrible or unique about this situation, they are just a different sect of your religion so you despise them. Socialism dress itself up as egalitarian, but there is no the particularly egalitarian about it. Socialism is just democracy taken to the extreme, infused with Christian views of utopia. Everything is controlled by the collective and if you go against the collective you would find yourself with nothing, if the collective deems your minority is unwanted they can exterminate you, because there are no restrictions on what they can do. Finally we humans automatically flock towards and serve authority, in the same way we automatically care for children and the weak. People will always have leaders and socialism does way with centuries of checks built up to prevent abuse.
    2
  956.  @surge1229  what about the rich? If they couldn’t become workers would you advocate for their removal?
    2
  957.  @surge1229  I could describe every socialist leader as a tyrant, so what makes Nazis so special that they can’t be socialist?
    2
  958.  @directAction3389 just look at the beliefs of some of those socialists that were killed in the night long knives.
    2
  959.  @jloiben12  true, TIK was off the mark on that, but his head was in the right place. Socialism is a really backwards ideology, it asks for the removal of all the limits on government that we have made to protect ourselves from abuse, basically returning us to the rule of absolute monarchs.
    2
  960.  @othersidehistory336  suspending private property is considered socialist, so is guaranteeing a job, requiring union membership, centrally dictating prices, providing subsidies to the poor for coal, wood, food, and most other basic commodities. It would be easier to ask what socialist policies did they not implement.
    2
  961.  @othersidehistory336 TIK has a video on the DAF showing that Hitler was pro worker, every assumption being backed up by sources.
    2
  962.  @othersidehistory336 ​⁠You really need to watch more then five minutes, he shows all the reforms and all the sources.it’s not his fault that proper historical debates take some time.
    2
  963.  @othersidehistory336 Where’s the sources?” “Watch the video, he uses the same sources as all other historians.” Refuses to watch the video and ignores the sources. What was I expecting.
    2
  964. ⁠ @othersidehistory336 TIK is an actual historian. He has a degree in history and understands the nuances of historical analysis. TIK is looking at historical events, and providing sources of those events. So far I’ve seen no evidence from you to support your claims, meanwhile TIK supports every claim he makes with numerous sources. Every argument here has been a fallacy, first ad hominem, then appeal to authority.
    2
  965.  @othersidehistory336 . Nice appeal to authority, too bad it isn’t backed up by the sources. ​​⁠ 27 February 1933, reichstag fire decree abolishes private property. First socialist reform done. You want more? 9:17, Nazis end the employer employee relationship, now there are just followers and plant leaders(managers). 7:40 forced union membership. Like I said in a previous comment, TIK is using the same sources as everyone else, it’s just a different interpretation of those sources that ends up being closer to reality. Not as stupid as you. I mean what kind of pathetic imbecile tries to one up someone in something they themselves call stupid.
    2
  966.  @othersidehistory336  Then why is socialism called socialism? Also me? Ignorant? How many socialists have you actually talked to? Also since you can’t answer my question without answering in a fallacy I have to assume I am correct. Thou it’s annoying how YouTube is deflating our comments, I had a perfect response prepared.
    2
  967. I think it’s just YouTube hating links again. A lot of my comments were deleted, and TIK has no reason to go after me. The truth be told your arguments are really bad, TIK deleting them makes little sense, especially when he keeps up arguments that are a lot better.
    2
  968. You will have to prove examples of when capitalism does what you say, otherwise I will have to declare that your pulling that idea out of your ass.
    2
  969. How so?
    2
  970.  @isgoodovsubhuman1972  yeah, but these reactionaries were implementing every policy that they were seemingly reacting against.
    2
  971. Really? Was this before or after he joined a socialist movement?
    2
  972.  Nicholas Time  if the Soviet Union was socialist then the Nazis were socialist.
    2
  973.  @hobbso8508 what is a society?
    2
  974.  @hobbso8508  great so you hate society.
    2
  975.  @hobbso8508  you have told me that you think capitalists are stealing your labor, thus removing all capitalist would make society better.
    2
  976.  @hobbso8508  what’s the difference? You want a class to stop existing, reeducation is your preferred method, but genocide is still allowed, ether way it’s still ending a group. Like is chinas genocide of the Uyghurs any less a genocide because they are trying to reeducate them?
    2
  977.  @hobbso8508  kind of like how the nazis changed their business and ownership laws, am I right!
    2
  978.  @hobbso8508  I mean, ending private property rights, controlling prices, controlling wages and hiring though the DAF, nationalizing the stock market thus controlling who can buy and sell businesses, etc.
    2
  979.  @Harrier_DuBois so you didn’t watch the video? That literally uses those historians as sources to show how they misrepresent their own sources?
    2
  980.  @rtmclean484  how so?
    2
  981. Did you watch the video.
    2
  982.  @Zakdayak  but it’s quite clear to anyone that the capitalist didn’t keep control, I mean don’t the Nazis hate the Jews?
    2
  983.  @Zakdayak  yeah, instead they confiscated all property in the name of ariyan.
    2
  984.  @dannyelcomunista  it there any property that you cant use for profit?
    2
  985.  @dannyelcomunista  but I can use them for profit. I don’t need to use my car all the time, same with my phone, so is it wrong to rent it out when I’m not using it?
    2
  986.  @arnaudaerts1726  I’m saying that post ww2 narrative was set by Marxists and we have been regurgitating their sayings since.
    2
  987.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme yep, socialism relies on twisting words to mean the opposites so much that it’s blatantly obvious when it’s actually attempted.
    2
  988.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme  socialism always is a dishonest label, they have to twist words to justify their own existence to themselves.
    2
  989.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme  well because socialists need to twist words so much that socialism itself means the opposite of what it actually is. The Nazis did exactly what socialism actually is, while at the same time twisting it to mean the opposite.
    2
  990.  @Idontknowwhatswaitingforme ell your right about him being not economically motivated, he was politicly motivated to create a socialist state. Remember that Marx was one of the first people to introduce economics into the debate of socialism, and Hitler rejected Marx’s economic and cass based socialism.
    2
  991.  @hobbso8508 emocracy means people’s power. Thus any country that derives its right to rule form the power of the people is a democracy. Voting is not required for a country to say it derives its right to rule form the people.
    2
  992.  @hobbso8508  not true, a monarchy could claim its right to rule from god, while still having elections on public matters. It wouldn’t be a democracy but would give power to the people.
    2
  993. Rival powers, remember that the capitalists and aristocrats didn’t have the power over the masses that other socialist ideologies had, and how did Hitler get to power? Via the masses.
    2
  994. Did you watch the video?
    2
  995.  @Dumpsteret1 ​​⁠​⁠​⁠so how did you miss the section covering big business? 20:00
    2
  996.  @Admiral-General_Aladeen  I mean socialists sure think it’s fine.
    2
  997. How so?
    2
  998.  @jacavanheesch4593  what does it mean to be a historian?
    2
  999.  @jacavanheesch4593  ​ while I disagree with TIK’s assessment that the Nazis were left leaning, they were definitely socialist. The truth is TIK is more of a historian then any of his proponents, he doesn’t care about historical consensus, he just looks at the sources and figures out how theirs biases distort what they are saying. The prime example is his take on the Vampire Economy, a contemporary source that concludes that the Nazis weren’t socialist, turns out that the author was a socialist and if you read the book what Nazis did lines up one to one with socialism, so it’s obvious that the author’s conclusions were biassed.
    2
  1000.  @brandonmorel2658 not really.
    2
  1001. What do you think about Utopian Socialism? That existed before Marxism and it didn’t believe in the workers controlling the means of production.
    2
  1002.  @hobbso8508 ideologically they are nothing similar, mechanically they share some definite features. Honestly the whole social justice movement was driven almost entirely by economic factors, and if they changed then you would see the west rapidly backpedal on a lot of these issues.
    2
  1003.  @hobbso8508 everything that the left has been successful at pushing had an economic benefit for them, and the places they failed had an economic benefit for the right.
    2
  1004. How is he?
    2
  1005.  @rickglorie  you tell him brother!
    2
  1006.  @PantheraKitty  because he wasn’t a true socialist?
    2
  1007.  @PantheraKitty  it’s doubtable that Hitler cared a thing about traditional moral values.
    2
  1008. ⁠ @Jenseduca watch out, your describing the Soviets.
    2
  1009.  @Imbalanxd  they suspended private property laws in 1933. It was legal for the state to steal, but not for anyone else.
    2
  1010.  @rtmclean484  you should watch the video then.
    2
  1011.  @hobbso8508  that’s sounds like every other attempted execution of socialism I’ve seen. Honestly the big reason why socialism always end up like this is because it believes in the false assumption of objective value. Because socialists believe there is one objective value of everything and they will remove any other “false” values. You the worker might value things differently, you might believe your labor is worth more, but if the collective doesn’t believe that your screwed.
    2
  1012.  @kapitanpufferfish5164 socialism is not the democratization of the workplace, otherwise it would not be called socialism.
    2
  1013.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  socialism is the ideology of social engineering, that humans are naturally good and it’s the society that corrupts them, and if we destroyed all of the corrupting influences then we could create a society where we all live in harmony. Marxism said the capitalist is the corrupting influence, nazism said the Jew is the corrupting influence.
    2
  1014.  @hobbso8508 TIK has a video debunking the claim that the DAF was a fake union, often the workers councils had more say on how the company was run then the owners did.
    2
  1015.  @hobbso8508 the state appointed the Union leaders from the employees.
    2
  1016.  @bilboj1  odd, he seems to be quoting primary sources.
    2
  1017.  @ben5154  so standard practice for socialists at the time.
    2
  1018. Socialists like killing other socialists, nothing new.
    2
  1019. Dam did you watch the video?
    2
  1020. So just because our modern definitions are different means the Nazis can’t call themselves socialist without lying?
    2
  1021.  @BILISenjans  but it is useful for explaining how the Nazi ideology actually works. Look at what people believed socialism to be at that time, nazism took too many ideas that are excessive to socialism to be truly independent. Basically TIK is saying that socialism used to be a vary diverse ideology and only one brach survived, like how early Christianity used to be vary diverse religion, but only one brach survived of that.
    2
  1022. Most forms of socialism advocated for the awakening of the collective consensus, something that the fascists and Nazis both tried to do.
    2
  1023.  @hobbso8508  ​ I’m a libertarian but even I know that universally applied force is the only way to generate large scale consensus. I mean the concept of intellectual property didn’t exist 200 years ago, and now it’s nearly universally agreed upon.
    2
  1024. Wow, it’s like you don’t even watch the video. The points in those videos have been addressed.
    2
  1025.  @observing8686  the Nazi crushing the unions, the Nazis getting support from America.
    2
  1026.  @jon82489  all of them, like you just listed a bunch in your own post. Nationalist isn’t incompatible with socialism, and private property was a wartime measure.
    2
  1027. Yeah, so what was it?
    2
  1028.  @plv.d.4079 where did the Nazis ever say this was their ideology? Or are you making it up for them?
    2
  1029.  @plv.d.4079 the same way it was central to Marxism…
    2
  1030.  @plv.d.4079 and your confusing Nazism to Hitlerism. Try again.
    2
  1031.  SIPHAKID  use-value is the reason why all socialist states are authoritarian. Everyone values things differently, including the workers, so when someone tells them that their wages are based on utility and they disagree they will strike, but the socialist state doesn’t believe in value and so will force their utility wage upon the worker.
    2
  1032.  @randomuser3481  na, they were in the process of expropriating all business before the end, sending in the workers and brown shirts to seize the records and look for discrepancies for how many years back it took to bankrupt the business in fines.
    2
  1033.  @horatiopelagius8703  and there has never been a Christian country. You know that WW1 started partly because Germany was afraid Russia was going to overtake them, Russia was going to grow with or without Socialism.
    2
  1034.  @horatiopelagius8703  that could be said for most countries and most of them didn’t become communist, in fact Russia was in the process of liberalizing before the revolution and the economic growth then was equal to what we would see later. Thus Germany’s fears and the war.
    2
  1035.  @erisdiscordia5429  actually the fascists didn’t care about Darwinism, that was the Nazis. You could become a fascist just by giving up your old nationality and giving everything to the Italian state.
    2
  1036.  @erisdiscordia5429  why? Doesn’t Social Darwinism insinuate it’s socialist nature in it’s vary name? Can you point to any place where the Italian fascists said anything about Social Darwinism? I’m pretty sure that’s a Nazi exclusive thing.
    2
  1037.  @erisdiscordia5429  what are you even talking about? Everything you said so far agrees with what I was saying. So I don’t get why you are calling me an idiot? Like the fascists didn’t have a problem with your race, they were just ultranationalist, and your race might distract you from that. It was the Nazis that were raciest and antisemitic, and it wasn’t until after the Nazis occupied Italy that the Jews there were prosecuted.
    2
  1038.  @captain-chair  I think your responses are quite excellent, hopefully TIK responds sometime.
    2
  1039.  @nicknolte8671 hmmm did you actually watch the video?
    2
  1040.  @rtmclean484  what are your talking about?
    2
  1041. Nothing was privately owned, so I fail to see how it was capitalist.
    2
  1042.  @hobbso8508  who coined it? The guy who hated privatization and so mischaracterized the Nazis economic policy to make it look like they had a private property?
    2
  1043. I mean he was a socialist before he realized Hitler was a socialist, all the definitions he uses are definitions used by socialists.
    2
  1044.  @nicknolte8671 but his arguments in general are against socialism.
    2
  1045. Who’s pro fascist?
    2
  1046. Before their rise to power?
    2
  1047.  @hobbso8508  so what countries are market socialists?
    2
  1048.  @hobbso8508  worker cooperatives are compatible with free markets to the point where most people don’t even consider them socialism.
    2
  1049.  @hobbso8508  yea, but no one considers them to be socialism.
    2
  1050.  @hobbso8508  my deformed definition if the one most people use.
    2
  1051.  @hobbso8508  a another word for Syndicalist.
    2
  1052.  @opanike87  you missed the part where Nazis Germany took control of the means of production before the war. Additionally why where socialists in the party to be killed in the night of the long knives if Nazis didn’t believe anything close to socialism?
    2
  1053.  @syourke3  so the Soviet Union was capitalist? Don’t that basically completely destroy use of the definition? I can’t except TIK’s definition of public because it would make every country ever socialist, and I can’t except your definition of capitalism because it would make every country ever capitalist.
    2
  1054.  @syourke3  the problem with that is how do you prove that the workers have control over the means of production?
    2
  1055.  @syourke3  so socialism can only exist when you have strong property laws?
    2
  1056.  @randomuser3481  you will have to argue with the utopian socialists then.
    2
  1057.  @randomuser3481  heh, so the Nazis were socialist for their time, they are just all dead now so can’t be socialist.
    2
  1058.  @randomuser3481  they weren’t, in fact most socialists praised the Nazi and Fascist economies for their degree of central planning and welfare programs.
    2
  1059. Hitler hated the aristocracy.
    2
  1060.  @michelbuckley5532  it was a choose between the socialists who answered to Moscow and the socialists who didn’t. And guess who was the only group who even attempted to assassinate Hitler.
    2
  1061.  @michelbuckley5532  but it always was the second choice for them, they would’ve loved to do it themselves, but they had no public support. They choose Hitler because he was more alined with their goals and Hitler lied to them personally about his antisemitism to get them on his side.
    2
  1062.  @michelbuckley5532  that begs the question of why where there socialists in their party at all.
    2
  1063.  @michelbuckley5532  that begs the question why there was a socialist wing.
    2
  1064.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  worker coops and market socialists are either libertarians or state capitalists. Socialism is always democratic, but it’s rarely liberal democracy, elections are a right just like private property, and you know how socialists view those kinds of rights.
    2
  1065. ⁠ @kapitanpufferfish5164 from the research I did market socialists believe all businesses should be owned by the government, but the prices are determined through supply and demand. So basically the state owns the capital. If you believe society should be organized into worker coops without any government influence, then your a libertarian with a liking to worker coops. Capitalism is not an economic system, nor is it a political system, it’s a made up word to discredit liberals what really doesn’t mean anything, no one is making a system of capitalism, capitalism is just really effective in a free market and is why all modern societies who attempt socialism end up as authoritarian.
    2
  1066. What do they say about the privatization myth?
    2
  1067. The intent you ascribe to the Nazis is just conjure, there is no evidence for it. On the other hand Hitler has written at length about how the war was just a tool to achieve the autarchy that was needed to have a socialist economy.
    2
  1068.  @rosbif4960  That don’t refute anything I said, in fact that supports it. Hitler’s end goal was socialism, all the war stuff was just what was required to achieve autarky, and once autarky was achieved he could then fully implement socialism. That didn’t prevent him from socializing the German people or economy, it just meant that he didn’t have enough time to do it entirely. Every socialist at the time hated degenerates and the feeble, they were parasites upon the rest of the collective and so needed to be exterminated. The fact that you’re saying Hitler supported eugenics supports the idea he was socialist.
    2
  1069.  @rosbif4960  you disagree, but you have no arguments. The narrative you petal is flawed and can’t explain the actions of one of the the worst war criminals of all time.
    2
  1070. I read what you believe, and it’s obviously false. The intent you ascribed is false. It’s like asking your average conservative what they think communism is. Technically true because it’s what they did, but blatantly wrong on what the intents actually are.
    2
  1071.  @CountryFriedCracka  you got to the point where he explains the differences between fascism, nazism, and Marxism?
    2
  1072. @Van Brighouse It just turns out a lot of Marxist historians don’t read the sources. Any historian who pushes the Nazi privatization myth hasn’t read the sources.
    2
  1073. ⁠ @Admiral-General_Aladeen  got to love your ignorance. They abolished private property in 1933, it was still illegal for the average person to steal, but not for the government. The Nazis also claimed to be democratic, using the same logic as the Soviets. And finally what do you think about the concept of the socialist businessman?
    2
  1074.  @Admiral-General_Aladeen  ​​⁠​⁠ Read the reichstag fire decree. The article in the German constitution guaranteeing and stipulating how the government could confiscate private property was suspended. I don’t know where your getting the idea that they made new rules allowing them to take property. And if you believe that the Nazis were socialist, then by default all members are socialists. The second argument is nonsense.
    2
  1075. Any actual arguments?
    2
  1076.  @katyn_was_based14 so he uses the historical definitions you know, the ones used at the time of the Nazis, and yet he’s changing them.
    2
  1077.  @katyn_was_based14 replace race with class and you will have Marxism…
    2
  1078.  @hobbso8508 do you really think they represent us? Studies have been done that show the exact opposite. No mater how much people want any puticuler policy or law, there is a 30% chance of it passing. Literally no one wants a law, 30%. Literally everyone wants a law, 30%.
    2
  1079.  @johnschmidt1262  how did the Soviet Union organize their industry?
    2
  1080. The socialist belief in utility over value basically forces them to adopt authoritarian bureaucracies.
    2
  1081. The Nazis were the people.
    2
  1082. How do you abolish private enterprise and the accumulation of wealth?
    2
  1083.  @pegacorn13 ​​⁠you do understand that all socialists claim to be the one true socialism, something that Hitler himself also did. ​​⁠​ Socialism is a religion, one of the big things about being a part of a religion is saying your a part of the religion, so that’s one of the primary qualifiers, second is the belief structure, Socialists believe the free market is wild and inefficient and that a centrally planned economy can tame the realm of human interaction, and they believe the benefit of the collective always supersedes the rights of the individual, so killing off the parasites is actively encouraged. The thing is without the free market you cannot accurately identify who the parasites actually are, so they target other groups like the capitalist or the Jews.
    2
  1084.  @265005  was responding to the other person.
    2
  1085.  @hobbso8508 did you watch the video?
    2
  1086.  @hobbso8508 so you ignore the events presented though the book Hitler’s Beneficiaries?
    2
  1087. ⁠ @hobbso8508 so you ignore what they did and instead just rely on your feelings of what they did.
    2
  1088.  @hobbso8508 wow it’s like you don’t know what your talking about when it comes to political spectrums. Please actually do some research on how the right-left spectrum was created and transformed over time.
    2
  1089.  @hobbso8508 oh wow, it’s not like the Soviet Union defined everyone else as right wing and the allies picked that up show solidarity. Now you have several generations of Nazis who were taught that the Nazis were right wing, not because anyone actually studied their ideology, but because they just ran off of WW2 propaganda.
    2
  1090. ⁠ @hobbso8508 oh wow it’s almost like the left-right spectrum is completely arbitrary, like libertarians are left wing under your definition of personal freedom. The truth is the current left-right divided is over the old European elite structure vs the new European elite structure.
    2
  1091. ⁠ @hobbso8508 wow it’s almost like libertarians are for human rights.
    2
  1092.  @hobbso8508 how so exactly? What about the right to your labor?
    2
  1093.  @hobbso8508 do you have a right to my time and labor? Do you believe that your right supersedes my right?
    2
  1094.  @hobbso8508  Why aren’t you letting homeless people live at your house you greedy capitalist!
    2
  1095.  @hobbso8508  Nice for you to admit that your for state control of the economy. Capitalism: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit. Private owners can include groups of people collectively owning something privately from everyone else.
    2
  1096.  @hobbso8508 in order for your “human rights” to be met by the government they have to have control over every aspect of the economy. Or you could let your “human rights” be met by the free market without the government needing to step in. And worker cooperatives are private ownership in the same way publicly traded companies are private ownership.
    2
  1097.  @hobbso8508 you have a source for the claim that free markets are incapable of fulfilling the needs of human rights? And do you have a source for the claim that socialist markets can provide all things to all people? Additionally free markets don’t care about your business model, “capitalist” socialist, commonly owned. Private property allows any group of people to own things collectively as long as they don’t infringe on the rights private property rights of non-consenting individuals.
    2
  1098.  @hobbso8508 so you can easily show sources, right?
    2
  1099.  @hobbso8508 how exactly does that prove your point? The state fails and somehow it’s free markets fault when it wasn’t expected to help?
    2
  1100.  @V555Vendetta  you do know what liberal meant back then don’t you?
    2
  1101.  @V555Vendetta  so you don’t know about his social revolution? That’s one of their primary goals. The vary first thing they did was enact a social revolution, they just never got around to the nationalization part of socialism.
    2
  1102. Bad take.
    2
  1103. It’s more like cross pollination.
    2
  1104. So Stalin wasn’t socialist?
    2
  1105. Hitler considered himself a socialist, not a communist. If you actually watched the video you would understand that. Additionally private individuals in the state party? Are you sure you know what your taking about?
    2
  1106. What are you talking about?
    2
  1107.  @trago034 from what I understand, TIK was your standard WW2 historian, but over time he found the narrative that the Nazis were capitalists not capable of explaining the Nazis actions, so he started actually reading the Nazis and fascists literature to figure out what made them tick. And when you read that you quickly come to realize they they thought of themselves as socialists.
    2
  1108. Well did you actually watch the video?
    2
  1109.  @artemalexandrovich6183  how much evidence does it take to make something become objective?
    2
  1110. So how does that video address what’s in this one?
    2
  1111. I’m not sure about him, but Hitler sure did.
    2
  1112.  fastrally  yes, didn’t Stalin do the exact same thing?
    2
  1113.  fastrally  then want happened to the mensheviks?
    2
  1114.  fastrally  so socialists kill other socialists when the other socialists resist the current socialist rule. Sounds like what the Nazis did.
    2
  1115.  fastrally ​ ​Yeah you see that the Nazis didn’t hate bolshevism, it was the Judeo part that set them off.
    2
  1116.  fastrally  if you look at their propaganda it was mainly antisemitism, and the anti-bolshevism was just a reflection of that. “Oh, the Bolsheviks are controlled by the Jews.” And “We would have peace if it wasn’t for the Jews.”
    2
  1117. I mean he is saying the nazis are socialists.
    2
  1118. ⁠ @hobbso8508  and TIK believes fascism was also a form of socialism, so I don’t know what point your trying to make. In his view nazism might’ve originally been fascism, but it had closer ties to Marxism and diverged enough to be its own ideology.
    2
  1119.  @hobbso8508  what doesn’t make sense about what I said? He says it himself, Fascism, Nazism, and Marxism are distinct socialist ideologies. Additionally he doesn’t believe that North Korea is a democracy, he was showing how authoritarian dictatorships rationalize that they are democracies without elections.
    2
  1120.  @hobbso8508  socialism is about centrally controlling tools and resources for the equal benefit of all members of society. Marxists believed that the working class where the contributors to the collective and that capitalists where parasites that only took from the collective. Nazis believed that that the aryan race where the contributors to the collective and that Jews where parasites that only took from the collective.
    2
  1121. ⁠ @hobbso8508  except for the parasites, those who don’t contribute to society are not a part of it. Why do marxists want to seize the means of production?
    2
  1122.  @starpergaming2688  they quite literally suspended the right, if you call private property no being allowed to steal things, then congrats! even the Soviet Union had private property.
    2
  1123. A wartime economy equals nationalizing the stock exchange?
    2
  1124. ​ @steinanderson considering I can see the comment right now... You just have no actual arguments.
    2
  1125.  @steinanderson do you have a source for that?
    2
  1126.  @steinanderson how where they privatized exactly? The main source I see people use says they privatized many industries, mainly into organizations within the Nazi party, a party who you know, was the state. TIK simply pointed out that was the dictionary definition of nationalization.
    2
  1127.  @steinanderson  1. But if you say you’re socialist and then do socialist things… 2. They started this years before war. And America, even during wartime, never took the same lengths. 3. Why does Krupp owning his business after the Nazis were removed from power, say anything about what the Nazis believed or did? To me it looks like the allies thought the ownership in name only was real. Private ownership was a farce, they had no rights to their property, only the will of Hitler let them have it. 4. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist? 5. So the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist? Who did he promise to quell the workers to? Did he make this promise before or after he came to power? 6. This is exactly what the Nazis did when they “privatized” things. And then they nationalized the stock exchange, thereby nationalizing the stocks they sold off. Care to quote those sources?
    2
  1128. ​ @steinanderson So socialist nations do X, and they say they do X because they are socialist. Then the Nazis do X and they say they do X because they are socialist. Did Krupp actually control the business? Remember, this was a "war economy", where private property rights didn't exist. Saying the Nazis weren't socialist because of their organizational structure would then disqualify the Soviet Union from being socialist. TIK directly addresses the argument of capitalists funding the naizs into power in another video. Turns out a historian in the 80s decided to ask if that was actually the case, and his book German Business and the Rise of Hitler, has largely changed the consensus to, no they did not, the nazi party was largely a grassroots organization. It was only after they came to power that capitalists tried to pay them off. So nationalizing the trade unions was obviously a part of his plan long before he ever colluded with capitalists. How does one own a stock when they can't trade it or sell it? When the profits were nationalized? When the government owned the controlling share?
    2
  1129.  @the1beard  you haven’t actually read Marx have you.
    2
  1130.  @jarrodf_  none of those things are particularly against socialism. Extreme right wing nationalist concerns? What does that even mean? The intense radical zealotry is just a transformation of the intense Marxist class zealotry. They didn’t protect private property, and what you say is protection of private property is identical to how every socialist country behaves. Not only do socialist love killing each other, the Nazis believed Marxism was a ploy by the business elites to control workers, exactly what you believe about them, it’s no wonder they hated their rivals. And you should read Hitler’s beneficiaries. It covers how the Nazis implemented basically every traditional socialist case, but only for the German.
    2
  1131.  @jloiben12  can you make a definition of socialism that includes every socialist country?
    2
  1132.  @jloiben12  So there has never been a Christian country, obviously. You see why I can’t respect socialists, if you can’t make a definition that reflects the actions of real world socialists, the I will. If you don’t like how my definition sets the Nazis to be socialist then give me something.
    2
  1133. If you can define socialism to be anything you want, then I can define Christianity to be anything I want. If you have a problem with that then give me a definition for socialism that accounts for the actions of real world socialist countries.
    2
  1134.  @jloiben12  there has never been a Christian country, prove me wrong.
    2
  1135. He goes into it in more depth in his 5 hour video, it was simply a little to complex to go over here.
    2
  1136.  @brandonmorel2658 ​​⁠​⁠corporatized and subordinated it to the wills of the party is centrally organizing the economy. What are you talking about? Nothing about socialism says anything about men being born equal, the primary goal of socialism is social welfare, the welfare of the collective. Hitler believing that eugenics was required for the welfare of the collective doesn’t make him any less of a socialist.
    2
  1137.  @brandonmorel2658 what a way to be wrong about everything you said.
    2
  1138.  @brandonmorel2658  my boy, your comparing Nazis Germany to a hypothetical standard instead of real world examples. Under your own definition the Soviet Union also couldn’t be socialist because it rejected egalitarianism and suspended workers right to protest.
    2
  1139.  @brandonmorel2658 ​​⁠ha, scientific consensus on what socialism is? What in the world are you talking about? Socialism is a ideology, science has nothing to do with it, that would be like saying the scientific consensus of what Christianity is. Japan wasn’t even fascist, it had no ideology comparable besides late colonialism. What in the world is this “reactionary hierarchy” nonsense your talking about? Can’t you see that nazism is about ending the morality reprehensible and ineffective social and economic hierarchies of capitalism with the inherently democratic and egalitarian state of affairs that is a centrally planned economy by the state for it’s people. Nazism is a merging of socialism and eugenics, where the state manages the social, economic, and racial health of its people for the benefit of society. To say that the Soviet Union was socialist for purging threats to the workers, you then couldn’t disqualify Nazi Germany for doing the same thing. Honestly it looks like you have fallen for ww2 and Cold War propaganda, where simple us vs them mentalities were created and propped up by our governments and education system with little regard for their accuracy. Like you constantly reference how this has been the consensus historically backs up this point, as the right-left dichotomy as we know it today was created by the Soviet Union when they defined everyone else as right wing during ww2 for political purposes, and then when the Cold War started America adopted that mentality and redefined right wing to be freedom and left wing to be oppression, also for political reasons. So no I don’t respect your “historical consensus” as your historical consensus was built off of a highly distorted view of the world.
    2
  1140.  @wasneeplus  what evidence do you have of your first point? Because that just sounds like subjective conjure.
    2
  1141. Let me ask you. Did you watch the video?
    2
  1142.  @suruxstrawde8322 so every socialist nation was actually fascist? Na man.
    2
  1143. I mean if you know what socialism is then it becomes quite obvious. Socialism is not the democratization of the workplace.
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  1144. Just like every socialist state ever.
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  1145.  @diegogbox  that’s what claim of control means, you have a claim on how it can be controlled, the authority to dictate how it is used. In your example you still have ownership because of your claim of control supersedes theirs and you can remove them. Under Nazi Germany you couldn’t remove them, without first consulting a government official who then could give you permission to do so if they see it fit. In nazi Germany you couldn’t own anything.
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  1146.  @diegogbox  and what did the “owner” have authority over, what could they control about their enterprises?
    2
  1147.  @diegogbox  so the economy underwent the socialist policy of synchronization.
    2
  1148.  @diegogbox  A question. If a church controlled the government and in order to own a business you to join it, fallow its teachings, and obey the word of its pope, would you call that a privately owned business?
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  1149.  @diegogbox  it was mentioned in the VIDEO, you really didn’t watch it?
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  1150.  @hobbso8508  and what they wrote was essentially. socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their rights for the benefit of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and a centrally controlled economy is more efficient and can achieve the first.
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  1151.  @hobbso8508  and the many share the same view, have you actually read any socialist works?
    2
  1152.  @hobbso8508  Hitler and Stalin took away the right to vote for the same reason they took away the right to private property, they believed that those rights only existed if they benefited the workers, and they believed their policies to be best for the workers, so anyone voting against them soddenly doesn’t have the right to.
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  1153.  @Harrier_DuBois how are they wrong?
    2
  1154.  @hobbso8508  there are negative and positive rights, negative rights are things you can do until someone stops you, positive rights are things that you can’t do until someone allows you. Your really letting your ignorance shine here. People have a negative right to live, to speak, to have property, to travel, to seek happiness, to vote, etc. No ones obligated to give them these things, but the government cannot take them away.
    2
  1155.  @hobbso8508  food is a negative right, despite the fact that you need it just as much. Turns out that making things into positive rights makes them scarcer.
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  1156. Can you provide some of the things that were addressed?
    2
  1157.  @purrcatharsis  I tried a while back, getting about halfway through, and each debunking was ether verifiably wrong or already addressed.
    2
  1158. You should know that most socialist movements where anti-egalitarian.
    2
  1159.  @hobbso8508  Marx believed in objective value, and objective value is antithetical to democracy.
    2
  1160.  @hobbso8508 do you have any evidence to back up your claims?
    2
  1161.  @hobbso8508 how exactly was that private ownership?
    2
  1162.  @hobbso8508 wow, it’s like the Americans took the worthless documents of ownership at face value and gave those people their property.
    2
  1163.  @hobbso8508 worthless under the regime who created them. It wasn’t like they were planning on them suddenly becoming worthwhile. It’s like a a regent being being made king because the colonizers didn’t want to put in the work of figuring out how the system actually worked.
    2
  1164.  @hobbso8508 what did legal ownership actually allow them to do? Could they sell the business?
    2
  1165.  @hobbso8508 and also what every socialist leader has done.
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  1166.  @hobbso8508 no, every socialist leader took from the profits and avoided labor.
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  1167.  @hobbso8508 I don’t know what to tell you, but that’s never the case.
    2
  1168.  @hobbso8508 so no socialist movement ever was socialist?
    2
  1169.  @hobbso8508 so no but once a socialist movement comes to power it instantly becomes non-socialist under your definition.
    2
  1170.  @hobbso8508 so the Nazis were socialist until they took power. Nice.
    2
  1171.  @hobbso8508 they were socialist in the same way that Stalin was socialist, witch is all that really matters in the end. No one will take you seriously if you say Stalin wasn’t socialist. Like you already are abandoning collective ownership for common ownership which makes you a communist, witch is its own sub category of socialism. Marx and most other socialists say it themselves that Communism is the end goal where all property is own commonly, while socialism is the state ownership of means of production. Nazism never claimed to be communist, nor did it ever claim that it was seeking communism.
    2
  1172.  @hobbso8508 yet every socialist state abandoned common ownership almost immediately, turns out common ownership can only work in a capitalist state.
    2
  1173.  @roflol100  most socialists in Germany ether stepped out of politics or joined the Nazi party, only a few were killed.
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  1174. You should watch the video.
    2
  1175. How so?
    2
  1176.  @JuvianTV  considering that every claim is backed out by a source, I’ll say it’s pretty accurate.
    2
  1177.  @JuvianTV  considering that most of your arguments rely on your ability to read his mind, you haven’t said anything.
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  1178. How so?
    2
  1179. Stop being an ignorant fool
    2
  1180. What do you mean fastest moving economy?
    2
  1181. Uh, how do you have ownership when private property was suspended?
    2
  1182.  @Dumpsteret1 uh the Rickstang fire decree, 1933?
    2
  1183.  @Jenseduca in what way?
    1
  1184. Each and every one of your points is wrong. Socialism is just the collective controlling the economy. Marxists believe that the collective should be the workers, while the Nazis believed the collective should be the Germans.
    1
  1185.  @hobbso8508  and the workers never controlled the economy in Russia. I don’t care if you say that the Soviet Union wasn’t socialist, by all historical references it was, and if it was then the Nazis also have to be socialist.
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  1186.  @hobbso8508  what about socialism that believes that utility should determine what’s done in the economy, not of personal value?
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  1187.  @hobbso8508  and Nazism has nothing to do with self proclaimed Nazi states.
    1
  1188. Socialism predates Marxism, so is it too hard to believe that Nazism was from a branch of socialism that divided society by race instead of class?
    1
  1189.  @Landon.Trotsky  the problem your dealing with is the sources don’t back up your claims.
    1
  1190.  @andreoliveira6371  socialism has two core tenets, individuals need to give up their negative rights for the positive rights of the collective (or as Marx said it “from each according to their ability, to each according to their need”), and a centrally controlled economy is more efficient and can achieve the first. Both of these combined together tell us that socialists can’t be democratic. Socialists believe their system is more efficient and moral, so anyone voting against it is voting against the self interest of the collective, and any negative rights that works against the self interest of the collective will be taken.
    1
  1191.  @hobbso8508  this is an easy one for you, show me an example of a monopoly that was harmful to its consumers and employees that wasn’t propped up the by state.
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  1192.  @hobbso8508  even at its peak, it had lower prices then its competitors thus not exploiting its consumers, and before anti-monopoly policies were put in place it was already losing a large part of its market share. Try again.
    1
  1193. That’s why their economic policy was synchronization.
    1
  1194.  @redblaze8700 I ask the question because they ignore basic points from the video.
    1
  1195.  @restrictionmars4288 I mean you have any actual arguments other then “Un uh your definition is wrong.
    1
  1196.  @Nickshady2254  I would say you need to read a book, the communist manifesto to be precise. Socialism then was just as antisemitic as Nazism.
    1
  1197.  @Nickshady2254  honestly there is only one thing that the axis powers all shared, and that was their late colonialism. Half of Italian Jews were members of the Italian fascist party. The fascists don’t care about care wither you were black, white, rich or poor, as long as you are devoted to the nation. A lot like socialism, just on a different axis. Nazism on the other hand is a lot more nasty because instead of being based off of class or nation, it socializes things based on race, and you can’t change your race. I wouldn’t call Japan fascist, like I said above, the only thing they shared with the rest of the axis was the late colonialism. I’m not familiar with the Spanish fascists, so if you have any interesting to say I would love to hear it.
    1
  1198.  @Nickshady2254  and most of the socialists actually joined the Nazi party or left politics, the idea that the Nazis removed the socialist parts of their party don’t account for the massive influx of socialists after the night of the long knives. The Jews went unmolested in Italy until the Nazis basically occupied them. What socialists polities didn’t the Nazis or fascists adopt? Or more importantly if they were reactionary’s, why did they adopt basically every policy they were seemingly reacting to?
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  1199.  @redblaze8700 yep, Hitler himself said why socialize property and business when you can socialize people. Once everyone in your country is socialist then they will willingly give up private property and work together.
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  1200. No, but they are similar.
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  1201.  @Hollow-u8t  I’m not familiar with Franco’s fascists, what where their social policies?
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  1202.  @Hollow-u8t  Marxism is socialism, but socialism isn’t Marxism. How did Mussolini condemn socialism? From what I understand they say that the workers are just too broad a group to unite people under and that the class consensus could never be achieved do to so many competing viewpoints, so they proposed that people should be united by nationality and for a national consensus to awakened.
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  1203.  @cezarstefanseghjucan  how does something become the exploitation of the working class?
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  1204. What?
    1
  1205.  @thetinkerfloof  the claim was never that Hitler was a Marxist.
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  1206.  @Arnie58  Hitler’s common enemy was the capitalist Jews, he talked about how if the Bolsheviks could remove their Jewish influence then they would be allies. In Hitler’s eyes the Bolsheviks were being controlled by the Jewish international finance. Also what’s a capitalist policy? and I’m not using the Soviet Union as a baseline here, I’m just taking the core ideas of socialism to their logical conclusions.
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  1207.  @Arnie58  then that would make any form of socialism that believes in the labor theory of value a capitalist one.
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  1208.  @Arnie58  it was nice talking, good luck!
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  1209.  @hobbso8508  socialism believes negative rights are dependent on wither they benefit the collective, and because socialism automatically believes it’s better for the collective it believes anyone voting against it are voting against the benefit of the collective, so socialists always take away the right to vote.
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  1210.  @hobbso8508  then what is? Capitalism isn’t the employer-employee relationship.
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  1211.  @hobbso8508 so unions can’t become nationalized?
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  1212.  @surge1229  left? Who said anything about left? (Actually I didn’t check so go ahead and point it out so we can both have a laugh.) The socialists also killed millions and want to kill an untold number, so you don’t have much to argue. Nazis are worse because you can’t stop being in the out group, bring that their socialism is based on race and not class, but they considered themselves better because they didn’t have to kill the rich.
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  1213. True, but TIK points out that there are many arguments that holocaust deniers have that can’t be explained with the traditional narrative,
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  1214. What is some of this corruption? How would regulation solve it?
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  1215.  @Isvakk  they were ideological rivals, where small differences between them put them at odds with each other. The thing is a large number of communists joined the Nazi party during and after the night of the long knives. Basically they were given three options, step out of politics, join us, or die.
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  1216.  @roflol100  what makes something privately owned?
    1
  1217.  @TheStobe84  socialism is inherently authoritarian. It believes that there is a way of determining utility without first discovering value. There’s a reason why all socialist states ban strikes, because once something is declared utility there is no room for questions and a strike is a question.
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  1218.  @TheStobe84  but people voting on different ideas is evidence that subjective value is the diver behind human action, and if subjective value is the diver behind human action then the whole reason why socialists want to equalize everyone brakes down. With subjective value an employer can’t be stealing the excess labor from the workers, which is the whole reason socialism exists.
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  1219.  @TheStobe84  the Nazis did that. They had extensive polls and questioners set out to help the boards determine what the German people wanted. Everything else you said is exactly what the Nazis did.
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  1220.  @hobbso8508 YouTube really likes deleting my comments now.
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  1221. TIK just realized that the things we hate in Nazism simultaneously exist in Marxism.
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  1222. It wouldn’t, but it’s one part of it.
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  1223. So what’s he definition of socialism?
    1
  1224.  @kapitanpufferfish5164  socialism is the social control of the economy, communism is the worker control of the economy, both aren’t the democratization of the workplace.
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  1225. What are you talking about? Did you even watch the video?
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  1226.  @erictoro6519  how do you be a historian? And are you sure you actually watched the video?
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  1227.  @Cubeforc3  most of the authors of the books are socialist, so TIK is just being a historian and considering their biases.
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  1228.  @hobbso8508 but at that point the definition it’s worthless,
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  1229.  @hobbso8508 and in US politics it means government control over the means of production.
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  1230.  @hobbso8508  socialism believes that subjective value is a capitalist construct and that our economy should really operate based on utility. There is the heart of socialist authoritarianism.
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  1231.  @hobbso8508  so some socialism can be authoritarian.
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  1232.  @hobbso8508  but Nazis Germany doesn’t open the markets up, in fact they closed them years before the war, you know, the one time you actually want to buy up as much resources as possible.
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  1233. How so?
    1
  1234.  @artemalexandrovich6183  so all the quotes from sources mean nothing?
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  1235. ​ @steinanderson  so they weren't actually privatized?
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  1236. ​ @suruxstrawde8322 so the nazis are as left wing as the Bolsheviks. Good to know.
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  1237.  @diegogbox  and that’s it?
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  1238.  @hobbso8508  then they aren’t socialists. Quite literally no one has a problem with market socialism, besides the state socialists. Socialists believe that it’s ok to remove negative rights in return for positive rights. If you believe that capitalists are stealing your labor and that it should be redistributed without their consent then you believe that you should take someone’s negative rights.
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  1239. ⁠ @hobbso8508 so in your opinion the Soviet Union was actually capitalist because the leaders could draw profits and avoid labor. Could you provide some of these contemporary descriptions?
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  1240.  @hobbso8508 so taking form the profits and avoiding labor is not what the Nazis were doing?
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  1241. Yep.
    1
  1242. How many of them supported Hitler before his rise to power, before it became likely that he would win?
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  1243. ⁠ @Dumpsteret1 the anti-communist elite, supporting the national socialist party? Don’t make me laugh. In fact I dare you to show me a source for that claim that isn’t about foreign capital (the Soviets also got to power on foreign capital) or from before Hitler was about to win the election? (As that point people are just hedging their bets and didn’t really contribute to that persons success.)
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