Comments by "Arnold Hubbert" (@arnoldhubbert6779) on "Norse Magic and Beliefs" channel.

@victor_bueno_br "I think wanting to live a culture is the greatest way of honoring said culture." Except, eventually you'll want to change that culture to match your own identity. It's human nature to want to feel a part of something and not wanting to feel any less than others. So, eventually you'll try to either change your identity or find a way to insert your own identity into the Norse one. You'll either start to believe that your ancestors were really Norse or that the Norse who visited Spain, somehow left a genetic influence that somehow you acquired. Or, that the Iberians made their way to Scandinavia and mixed with the Norse, or any other thing one's mind could conjur. Either way, any of those ideas would re-write my own heritage and history. I know a black guy who decided to practice Asatru who now believes that his one and only Norman ancestor from a thousand years ago, is the only source of his genetics (and that he's not really black african), and that in reality, the Norse were all black asians, and that my own Scandinavian ancestors were really from Africa. I know this is an extreme example and that you wouldn't go that far (because no one has an inferiority complex like a black american), but the temptation is the same.
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Very few of those non Scandinavians who are drawn to Norse paganism, do so out of a sincere belief in the divinity of Odin or the tenants of it as a religion. THEY'RE DRAWN TO THE CULTURE (or, perceived culture). You can't separate Norse paganism from the culture. And, as essentially a pracitce of honoring Norse culture, traditions, and ancestors, why would any non Scandinavian (or at least, non germanic) even want to pracitce it? It's not at all like Christianity, which is meant for all people, regardless of race or heritage. It's just meant for those for whom it's their heritage.
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Very few of those non Scandinavians who are drawn to Norse paganism, do so out of a sincere belief in the divinity of Odin or the tenants of it as a religion. THEY'RE DRAWN TO THE CULTURE (or, perceived culture). You can't separate Norse paganism from the culture. And, as essentially a pracitce of honoring Norse culture, traditions, and ancestors, why would any non Scandinavian (or at least, non germanic) even want to pracitce it? It's not at all like Christianity, which is meant for all people, regardless of race or heritage. It's just meant for those for whom it's their heritage.
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By "aztec" do you mean mexican and by "viking" do you mean European?
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As a Scandinavian American, in practice, you can't separate the religion from the culture, especially with Norse paganism. Many non Scandinavian people who are drawn to the Norse religion, aren't really attracted by it's purely religious aspects. They're more drawn to the cultural ("Viking") image. They like the idea of following a "Viking" religion because it's a way for them to appropriate the culture. However, for many of them, it's not enough to just be an "outsider" and many of these non Scandinavians begin to try and insert themselves into the original culture. AND THEY WILL TRY TO CHANGE IT TO FIT THEM. For example, I know of several blacks who have taken to following Asatru and adopting the culture and who now make the delusional claim that the original Norse were black, just like them. They claim that it's not hurting or affecting anyone for them to believe this but what they don't grasp is that their claim steals my own ancestors and heritage from me. I don't follow Norse paganism but if you want to preserve it and your heritage and your Nordic identity, DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO PARTICIPATE AND DISCOURAGE THEIR PARTICIPATION BECAUSE THEY WILL TRY TO DESTROY YOUR IDENTITY.
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@brendanmuller7301 True. And their insecurity drives them to appropriate any other ethnicity they prefer, regardless of truth and reality.
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Very few of those non Scandinavians who are drawn to Norse paganism, do so out of a sincere belief in the divinity of Odin or the tenants of it as a religion. THEY'RE DRAWN TO THE CULTURE (or, perceived culture). You can't separate Norse paganism from the culture. And, as essentially a pracitce of honoring Norse culture, traditions, and ancestors, why would any non Scandinavian (or at least, non germanic) even want to pracitce it? It's not at all like Christianity, which is meant for all people, regardless of race or heritage. It's just meant for those for whom it's their heritage.
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@victor_bueno_br However, if it were true, regarding your experince with Odin, then race or heritage wouldn't matter, because it would mean that Odin is truly divine and would therefore be for all people. However, he's not (sorry). Odin was just an influencial man and leader, who lived and died, and who the local Norse later deified. He's in my own geneology. There is FAR more evidence of Christ's diety, than Odin's.
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@victor_bueno_br I appreciate your very thoughtful and respectful reply. My intent, btw, was never to dictate to you regarding your choice of religion, however, if I may add this one thing. Christianity is truly for all, no matter your heritage, and you would never have to try and "fit in." To "fit in," your heritage just needs to be a son of God, which you already are. Btw, not that it matters, but your Iberian ancestors have been Christian a lot longer than my Scandinavian ancestors. I wish you well.
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@victor_bueno_br "I find quite interesting that I, an outsider to your culture, believe more in the divinity of Odin than you, which for me is puzzling." Good question. Especially in a forum dealing with Norse paganism (like, why would I be here?). I studied Norse mythology in college and for years since (also, Norse mythology was always a part of my culture growing up. Though American, my family is from a Scandinavian settlement). My purpoes has been to find certain truths contained within, even if I don't find it to all be true. Btw, in some ways, there could be some truth to your comment about "the same deities presenting themselves to different cultures." I believe that most cultures have a remnant of the true religion and true God, but have retained or modified different aspects due to their culture, preferences, or just lost truths over the centuries. I believe Norse "paganism" is largely a remnant of a more ancient religion and church (which I claim to be a member of, which is Christian but not mainstream or Nicene based Christianity). Scholars have always recognized Christian elements in Norse paganism and mythology, but have always attributed as due to the Christian elements being inserted after the introduction of Christianity to the Norse people. I'm sure that could be true, to a degree, but I also believe there are many Christian elements that predate the Christianization of the Norse. Part of my evidence is due to the elements that are absent from mainstream Christianity but are unique to MY religion, but that are also present in Norse mythology. I'll share an example, if you're interested.
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If you're Mexican and not Scandinavian (or even mostly European) why would you have the slightest interest in the Norse religion, which essentially just ancestors honoring or worship. I just don't get why anyone, other than Scandinavians, would even be interested in worshipping someone else's ancestors.
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@AngelGonzalez-sn4bv "but there is no law or rule saying that your ancestors have to be a certain ethnicity" That is certainly true about most mainstream religions, particularly Christianity, which specifically reaches out to all races and claims all races to equally be children of the same God. But, for most pagan "religions" this is not the case. Whether it's some indigenous polynesian beliefs, or native african tribal beliefs, or various other European pagan belief systems, they were never intended to be any kind of "world religion" or that would be proseletyzed to non members of their tribes or people. Why would you want to worship my ancestors (as a Scandinavian American, I can easily trace my ancestry to many of the Norse "dieties," including Odin and Thor, etc. Not a big deal. Any Scandinavian can)? They're my ancestors and I don't even follow that supposed "relgion." We don't know enough about what they really believed to even know what to follow. What I think you're doing is trying to follow the Nordic culture, which isn't the same as religion anyway. Btw, Odin and Thor weren't actually gods. They were just some of my people's ancestors who probably just had retained and passed along some basic religious beliefs from an older, more original, religion.
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@AngelGonzalez-sn4bv There isn't a "law" because the Norse "religion" isn't an organized religion but more just ancestor honoring and ethnic traditions. But, there is such a thing as common sense that ought to influence you. Why would you even want to honor my Norse ancestors (I'm a Scandinavian American)? Why would I want to honor or worship your aztec or mayan ancestors? It would be as ridiculous if I were to dress up as an aztec and started worshiping your aztec dieties if you were to dress up as a Viking and practiced Asatru. The ONLY religion that is for everyone, regardless of heritage is Christianity. No one is "calling" you. It's just your imagination.
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Very few of those non Scandinavians (and even some Scandinavians) who are drawn to Norse paganism, do so out of a sincere belief in the divinity of Odin or the tenants of it as a religion. THEY'RE DRAWN TO THE CULTURE (or, perceived culture). You can't separate Norse paganism from the culture. And, as essentially a pracitce of honoring Norse culture, traditions, and ancestors, why would any non Scandinavian (or at least, non germanic) even want to pracitce it? It's not at all like Christianity, which is meant for all people, regardless of race or heritage. It's just meant for those for whom it's their heritage.
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Why would you even be interested if you're not Scandinavian or descent? The Norse religion is essentially ancestor honor or worship. If they're not your ancestors why would you even care or even be interested? I just don't get it.
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@markblanchardii3781 What do you mean, then? It sounded like you said that people of Scandinavian ancestry weren't wanting to share with you and that you'll never be one of them. If you're also of Scandinavian ancestry, why would they exclude you? Unless, your "Scandinavian" ancestry was extremely minor or that you were clearly of a non European heritage (even if you had some Nordic ancestry). But, I do know that Scandinavians can be quite the gate-keepers, especially when it comes to Norse heritage.
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sounds like you're basically asian, though and probaby have almost no Scandinavian ancestry. Stick to Christianity or something asian. I can't figure out why anyone with extremely insignificant Scandinavian ancestry would have the slightest interest in the Norse religion.
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You are correct. I believe that, for some, ultimately it's about power. And they're using the inferiority complexes of some, and the guilt complexes of others, to get it.
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Very few of those non Scandinavians (and even some Scandinavians) who are drawn to Norse paganism, do so out of a sincere belief in the divinity of Odin or the tenants of it as a religion. THEY'RE DRAWN TO THE CULTURE (or, perceived culture). You can't separate Norse paganism from the culture. And, as essentially a pracitce of honoring Norse culture, traditions, and ancestors, why would any non Scandinavian (or at least, non germanic) even want to pracitce it? It's not at all like Christianity, which is meant for all people, regardless of race or heritage. It's just meant for those for whom it's their heritage. Those non Scandinavians and non Germanics who practice the Norse religion, will eventually try to insert themselves into the heritage, because the two are inseperable. They will start by fantasizing, leading to concocting theories of just how their ancestors were really Norse (or that the Norse were really of their race). They might even, eventually, deny the Norse were even Scandinavian or Germanic. Sounds ridiculous and yet it's already happening. I've talked with a black guy who started practicing Asatru as, what he claims, his ancestor's "old ways." This has led him to claim that his one and only Norman ancestor from a thousand years ago, is the only source of his genetics and ancestry (and claims not to have any black african heritage, though it's clearly his dominant ancestry), claims the Norse were really all black/asians, and that my Scandinavian ancestors were really from Africa.
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A pretty tenous "connection." I think your first instincts were more accurate. The Norse religion is mostly cultural and ancestor worship. I think it's inappropriate unless someone had a direct and recent or current ethnic connection. I don't even know what anyone would be interested in the Norse religion unless it was a part of your dominant heritage. I would even discourage someone who was 100% European (or British), unless their dominant heritage was Scandinavian.
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As a Scandinavian American I agree with you in principle, except that in practice, there's a problem. In practice, you can't separate the religion from the culture, especially with Norse paganism. Many non Scandinavian people who are drawn to the Norse religion, aren't really attracted by it's purely religious aspects. They're more drawn to the cultural image. They like the idea of following a "Viking" religion because it's a way for them to appropriate the culture. However, for many of them, it's not enough to just be an "outsider" and many of these non Scandinavians begin to try and insert themselves into the original culture. I know of several blacks who have taken to following Asatru and adopting the culture and who now make the delusional claim that the original Norse were black, just like them. They claim that it's not hurting or affecting anyone for them to believe this but what they don't grasp is that their claim steals my own ancestors and heritage from me. I don't follow Norse paganism but if you want to preserve it and your heritage, DO NOT ALLOW THEM TO PARTICIPATE OR DISCOURAGE THEIR PARTICIPATION.
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I think the connection is through the ANE people (Ancient Northern Eurasians), of which the tocharians are close to pure descendants. I believe the Yamnaya also came from them.
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@Necroyy I wouldn't say the Indians and Europeans used to be "one people," unless you go back far enough to the point where everyone in the world were once all "one people." You can find similarities in most of the world's ancient religions and cultural practices. The "Aryan" race theory is likey just the result of the ANE people (Ancient Northern Eurasians), of whom about 40% of the worlds descend, some alot (like Northern Europeans), but most of the rest of the world, hardly at all. The only reason why some people think there's a connection between India and Europe is just due to the fact that you all retained must of your ancient religious beliefs, unlike a lot of the rest of the world, so we can see the similarites. Racially and ethnically, however, we're still world's a part.
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You can't separate the Norse religion from the Norse culture or the Norse race. If you allow (or don't discourage) non Norse (especially non-Europeans) participation, eventually they will try to CHANGE Norse identity in order to include themselves. It's already happening.
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I agree. An even bigger problem arrises when after appropriating the Norse religion, they find that you're correct that that it is odd for someone not of Norse ancestry to worship or honor them but, instead of abandoning it, they simply make them their ancestors, by concocting a false heritage (or, changing the heritage of the Norse to match themselves). Black people do this the most.
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@ÞórrÓðinnson Germanic is not necessarily Norse. So, if you're not of Norse or Scandinavian ancestry, why would you even be interested in the Norse religion which really was about Norse culture and honoring our heritage and ancestors and was never intended to be a proselyting type religion for all people. Your question would be like asking, "can I be a part of your family?"Btw, I'm of mostly Scandinavian ancestry and I don't even follow the Norse religion. I honor my Norse ancestors but that's about it. Christianity actually makes more sense for both you and I, don't you think?
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@ÞórrÓðinnson While that's true (Odin versus Wotan, etc.), the only version anyone knows anything about is the Scandinavian one. I don't know for certain about Germans, but Scandinavians can actually trace our genealogy to Odin, Thor, Brunhilde, Sigurd the Dragonslayer, etc. Even if those are genealogical embellishments, they were embellished by our Norse ancestors.
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@ÞórrÓðinnson In my genealogical family records, it actually includes Odin. This is due to the fact that my ancestors from a thousand years ago, included him in their ancestry. But, is it literally true or embellished? I have no idea. However, it isn't a modern embellishment but was done by my Norse ancestors (btw, not a big deal. Any Scandinavian can trace to him as well). However, I will also add that since Odin was likely a real historical person, and not any kind of deity, then it's certainly possible.
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@ÞórrÓðinnson Some sagas seem to imply otherwise. I believe he was a real person who had a great political and religous impact on the ancestors of the Norse people and who was later deified by them. Btw, though a Christian, I studied Norse mythology in college (and have continued to study it since).
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@ÞórrÓðinnson Btw, I misread your original comment. I thought it read that you were of Brazillian AND Germanic ancestry (and Brazillian usually means a mix of indigenous, negro, and southern European ancestry). In which case, despite your additional German ancestry, I would discourage you from participating. However, if you're just of German ancestry, then that's a little different. Even though I stand by my original comments regarding the Norse religion and scandinavian heritage, it is also true that the ancient Germans practiced their own version as well (all Germanic people were once the same people). Not that you need my permission, but do whatever you want.
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@thorthelionkingodinson4385 You're correct about all of those connections. I think the the race responsible for all those connections are probably the ANE people (Ancient Northern Eurasians), who were a Caucasian people (the Tocharians are believed to be pure descendants) and whose DNA has been found from Scandinavia to Asian and to America. Btw, Thor Heyerdahl had the same belief (only he didn't know about the ANE people), that there was an advanced ancient race of Caucasian people who travelled the world and who were the source of many of the world's greatest civilizations. He believed Odin was one of these travellers. But, most people considered this theory racist, so he's been largely discredited. I hope he's vindicated one day. Btw, there's one other possible connection to all of these people as well. The scientists who made the DNA connection to all of these people also made cultural or religious connections as well. They found that all the people who had ANE DNA also believed in something called the Tree of Life. They also found that they all believed that a resurrected God visisted their ancestors (i.e. Qestzcoatl). Even the ancestors of the Norse had a legend that a resurrected God, whose father was a God and whose mother was mortal, and who died but then ressurrected back to life, visted them sometime before 98 AD.
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Very few of those non Scandinavians who are drawn to Norse paganism, do so out of a sincere belief in the divinity of Odin or the tenants of it as a religion. THEY'RE DRAWN TO THE CULTURE (or, perceived culture). You can't separate Norse paganism from the culture. And, as essentially a pracitce of honoring Norse culture, traditions, and ancestors, why would any non Scandinavian (or at least, non germanic) even want to pracitce it? It's not at all like Christianity, which is meant for all people, regardless of race or heritage. It's just meant for those for whom it's their heritage.
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I disagree.The Norse religion is more cultural and about ancestor worship. I don't even know why anyone will only a tenous connection, would even be interested. I think the natural thing to do would be to be drawn to whatever is your most dominant ethnic makeup, rather than some obscure minor part.
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Very few of those non Scandinavians (and even some Scandinavians) who are drawn to Norse paganism, do so out of a sincere belief in the divinity of Odin or the tenants of it as a religion. THEY'RE DRAWN TO THE CULTURE (or, perceived culture). You can't separate Norse paganism from the culture. And, as essentially a pracitce of honoring Norse culture, traditions, and ancestors, why would any non Scandinavian (or at least, non germanic) even want to pracitce it? It's not at all like Christianity, which is meant for all people, regardless of race or heritage. It's just meant for those for whom it's their heritage. Those non Scandinavians and non Germanics who practice the Norse religion, will eventually try to insert themselves into the heritage, because the two are inseperable. They will start by fantasizing, leading to concocting theories of just how their ancestors were really Norse (or that the Norse were really of their race). They might even, eventually, deny the Norse were even Scandinavian or Germanic. Sounds ridiculous and yet it's already happening. I've talked with a black guy who started practicing Asatru as, what he claims, his ancestor's "old ways." This has led him to claim that his one and only Norman ancestor from a thousand years ago, is the only source of his genetics and ancestry (and claims not to have any black african heritage, though it's clearly his dominant ancestry), claims the Norse were really all black/asians, and that my Scandinavian ancestors were really from Africa.
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What you "inclusive" people don't get is that by including anyone, they will eventually destroy your identity and culture. You all are so naive.
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What you don't understand is that by including anyone, they will eventually destroy your identity and culture and heritage. They will eventually not be satisfied with simply being an outsider but will insist on being an insider by inserting themselves into the history and heritage, even if it means changing history. And, if they find they can't change your history, they'll choose to destroy it. Just ask the AngloSaxonist Society how they're doing latey. You all are so naive.
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