Comments by "Arnold Hubbert" (@arnoldhubbert6779) on "The New Culture Forum"
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@nealgrimes4382 When did anglo Saxon ethnic identity cease to exist and how do you define their ceasing? It couldn't have been just at the 1066 Norman invasion, since their are numerous records of their continuing in their anglo saxon identity (there were Anglo Saxons who continued to self identify and even offered some continuing, though mostly passive, resistance). So, if they're no more, when did it officially happen (I'm not looking for an exact date). Also, if being "English" is identical to being "Anglo Saxon" then only the title has been slightly altered, but the ethnic identity may still exist. Or, if English is a new identity meant to supplant the Anglo Saxon one, how are you so sure all the Anglo Saxons accepted it? Many Anglo Saxon resisted and even migrated to other locations in order to maintain their identity. Some went to Denmark. Some even went to form a new colony called New England (not in the US, but in the Crimea). And, even though many Brits would criticize this as absurd (and it is, a little), many Americans, including some founding fathers, but also many since, have traditionally considered the American Revolution as an "Anglo Saxon" revolution and rebellion against Norman rule. Of course this would be hard to justify this claim as literal and, in fact, it's probably more symbolic, but it still proves the point that, perhaps, there have always been those identifying as Anglo Saxon (even if just a glorified and symbolic way, and regardless of whether or not they were really of "pure" Anglo Saxon ancestry) and never really went away. Though I'm an American of mostly Scandinavian heritage and consider myself a Scandinavian American (and don't consider myself "Anglo Saxon" in any way), my English ancestors were part of a group of immigrants who actually did claim to be Anglo Saxon as much as they did English, even going so far as to claim having left the tyranny of the Norman rule in Britain. And, it wasn't in a racist way, but just in an anti-oppression kind of a way (again, even if largely symbolic).
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@angelnumber_444-o9h Why don't the Anglo Saxons still exist if the Scotts and Welsh do? The Scotts and Welsh aren't purely of Scotch or Welsh ancestry. DNA has shown that English people actually do have a great deal of Anglo Saxon (and Jutish) ancestry, some even have a majority of that as their ancestry.
Your description of Welsh history could be used to describe the Anglo Saxon as well. "The "Anglo Saxon" (Welsh) were never fully absorbed into the indigenous kingdoms and retained their own identity, especially through their language and customs." English is a descendant of the Anglo Saxon language, is it not? English, just means Anglo, does it not?
"Historically, "England" (Scotland) was divided into various tribes and kingdoms, such as the Anglos and Saxons (and Jutes), before a unified kingdom." See how it works? If the Scotts and Welsh still exist, then so does the Anglo Saxon.
Btw, I'm not Anglo Saxon (though I do have some ancestry) and don't claim that identity, so I don't have a personal bias (I'm an American of mostly Scandinavian ancestry), but this just make sense to me.
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@angelnumber_444-o9h Let's continue applying the same standard with your comments. IF the Norman conquest caused the end of the Anglo Saxons, then it would have caused the demise of the Scotts and Welsh as well (the Scotts were controlled by the Normans and most of Wales was conquered). And yet, we consider them to continue as an distinct ethnicity, despite their being conquered/occupied and despite their Scottish or Welsh ethnicity not remaining pure.
Regarding language, modern English is a direct descendant of the original Anglo Saxon language (even if additonal elements have been introduced. All languages do this). Btw, what language do the modern Scotts and Welsh speak? Even though there are a few pockets who retained their original language to a very small degree (though they were still influenced by English), they all both speak English, don't they? By your standard, wouldn't the Scotts and Welsh no longer exist, then? And, in fact, the modern English still speak a language that dirctly descended from the Anglo Saxon, so they're closer than the Welsh and Scotts, in regard to language retention as being a factor.
"But what’s helped them keep their unique identities is holding on to their cultures, languages, and traditions over the years, even with all the outside influences." People often assume some people don't have any culture or retained any of their original culture but that's largely due to the fact that the dominant culture of the Anglo Saxon people has been spread around the world and has become the dominant culture around the world. You seem to assume that the only people to have retained their culture are just those of more "primitive" cultures that haven't spread much beyond their own people, so it's more easily distinguished. Asking someone if they recognize Anglo Saxon or English culture would be like asking a fish if he recognizes water.
So, if the Welsh and Scotts still exist, so do the Anglo Saxon.
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@angelnumber_444-o9h "the way of life and language of the Anglo-Saxons aren’t really part of modern England anymore." Sorry, but you are SO wrong. Like I said before, you just don't recognize Anglo Saxon/English culture because it's so dominated the west that it would be like asking a fish if he reconized water. The Scots may have retained a few cute little traditions, but that's nothing by comparison to the system and framework of laws that originated from the Anglo Saxons and have spread to the rest of the world (among many other things that are just taken for granted). How about the English language (despite additions, it's origins were the Anglo Saxons), which is spoken at least as a second language by the entire world. For much of the world, things that orignated from the Anglo Saxons are just consider "normal" or "everyday."
Btw, I don't consider myself Anglo Saxon (I'm a Scandinavian American, though I do have some AS ancestry too), so I don't think I have a personal bias towards the Anglo Saxons, but truth is truth.
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@charleshayes2528 I think you're missing the point. I don't anyone who claims at least a degree of anglo saxon heritage (and legacy) denies the truths you mentioned in regard to the racial history of Britain. However, what is happening is that there are political forces (all in an effort to gain power) who are doing all they can to erase any sense of identity that Western Europeans have, so that they'll be less resistant to the massive changes (non-Western, non-European, massive immigration, etc.) being forced on their country. If a people don't have any kind of an identity (including an ethnic one), for many of them, there's nothing left to defend so they're easily overrun and overpower. They don't even care about the future of their descendants or their country.
Btw, you're mistaken that "no one" is trying to deny that those people even existed. It only starts small, by denying they existed as a distinct group (which, they eventually did, even before the Norman invasion, but especially during the Norman invasion), but eventually evolves into claiming that they were only a small group of oppressors, and that modern English aren't descended from them, or even things like they were "black," etc. All of these things are also being pushed. Eventually, their history won't be taught or remembered at all, which is the same as denying their existence at all.
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@charleshayes2528 The results of a resent study (conducted over several years) showed that the social results of ethnic diversity were all the opposite of what those promoted diversity claim. Rather than being a strength, it has proven to be the opposite. They found people are way less likely to be civic minded, way less unified, way less lawful, way less likely to be charitable, way less freedom but way more laws, way more crime, way more corruption, way more on welfare, way more environmental problems and neglect, etc. Why is that? Because there's very little community mindedness long sightedness and way more self-interest and shortsightedness, when people don't have a community identity. Iceland, for example (and although this is starting to change) largely see themselves as a large extended family. You behave differently towards your extended family than you do to a people with whom you have no association, not connection, no history, and instead see them as alien, and protentional threats (or even hate them, especially if the media is convincing you to).
NO ONE has a RIGHT to immigrate to another country, unless invited. However, a host country does have the right (even moral obligation) to both limit and even expel immigrants if they are seen as a threat to the wellbeing of it's citizens.
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