Comments by "Big Woody" (@bigwoody4704) on "TIKhistory" channel.

  1. The Poles unlike Monty at least had the balls to show up,Bernard got scarce knowing he shit the bed yet again
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  2.  @johnbrereton5229  Monty couldn't command crap - it's a lie.Winston Churchill faffed up when fired Claude Auchinleck and Dorman Smith who had just beat The AK at 1st Alamein.They wanted 6 weeks to refit .So on August 12 Monty was brought in after Strayfer Gott's plane was shot down.Then Monty takes 10 weeks.The advanteges in the Desert were such that the allies could carry a liability like Monty.Try reading up on how every battle after that he had problems and in fact took way more time than any one else,Caen ,Goodwood,Falaise Gap and of course Monty Garden. After that IKE knew his reputation was greatly embellished be cause of precious British ego who were now because of his mouth and mistakes was shoved to the sideline fo most of '45 As Bradley said, Montgomery rarely won a battle any other competent general wouldn't have won as well or better.'
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  3.  @redned7186  You forget your red friends were in bed with the Fuhrer at the beginning - the butchers bill is the price they paid unfortunately.Had not the Anglo American forces bombed the shit out of the Defenses industries and sent over 400,000 trucks mostly studebakers and GMC's for troop transport and to mount missile launchers the Red Army might have made Romania.I forget how much canned food was sent to them oh sherman tanks and 1,200 Locomotives.Try reading "The Arsenal of Democrocy". Try reading about where the Russians learned to set up assembly lines - they were a peasant nation and invited Western business' over in the '30s - read up on Stalin's workers paradise narrative he sold the rest of the world while the creep was either starving or purging perhaps millions in the gulag's .How about the US selling Mr Christie's design for suspension for their T-34
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  4. Irving Burns - you need to quit puffing on the Hippy Lettuce,you're realizing hallucinations again. Putting your bollocks in italics next to red diamonds. The 82nd had to fight off attacks on the LZ's,you know the one's Frost never did,it's called logistics,supply and provisions which they got - the RAF also faffed up the drops by fearing AA guns that the Germans didn't have there.Old Monty at least Japanese Commanders would fall on their swords after disasters like this
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  5. That was directly from Bletchley Park Archives you berk.And John Keegan said the same things .So Bletchley,Max & keegan are full of it and you know the the truth.LMFAO - look in a mirror and say that out loud and see how that sounds.You're funny Burns,uneducated but funny
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  6. Hastings,Beevor,Keegan,Barr,Hart,Bennet oh and Alan Brooke all British.Go see the Vicar,he'll get a bunk for you at the Asylum - next to your other aliases
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  7. Monty lost a lot. What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials, and air support. And then barely.. and poorly. He was in fact the worst overall commander of any combatant in WWII. As for him "taking more ground" than any Allied commander - that claim is so absurd it basically disqualifies you from any serious discussion on this topic. You don't know the first thing about what you're talking about.Caen was actually taken on July 21st. It was supposed to be taken (by Montgomery) on June 6, with his 4:1/5:1 superiority. The Caen offensives that took place in between were an embarrassing and deadly blunder by an incompetent commander - and his poorly-trained, unmotivated troops. Who also suffered the misfortune of being supplied with British arms. But you've got to love the spin: "I was failing miserably over here so that the Americans can win". Sure he was.
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  8. Listen Sponge Bob Smear pants when you're done playing with your green plastic soldiers pick them up off the floor you know how mother hates stepping on those when she'd tucking you in
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  9. your lack of research don't cut it! ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.145 the Irish Guards were an hour and 11 miles behind when it's tanks rolled into Valkenswaard main square on the night of the 17th, and Horrocks no movement after dark extended this shorfall to 12 hours at a stroke. It remained to be seen if Guards Armored Division would prove capable of moving the following day with sufficient dispatch to make up at least some of the lost time Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,p.309 At the North end of the Bridge,Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Armored Division to push on immediately to Arnhem just 10 miles up the road. Their elation turned to anger as the growing British Force remained immobile Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp.General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." Gavin did not have an answer for him. The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate. Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs​ until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September.Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright "we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair" Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.219 "Montgomery went over my head" Air Marshall Conningham recalled after the war. "Month after month he did that; until he had his failure at Arnhem - then they made him listen. He violated all command channels" "Monty's water logged summaries tried to hide glaring weaknesses of a hopelessly flawed plan" - Sabastian Ritchie.
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  10. Monty wasn't going to a damn thing about it.Churchill/FDR carved up Europe at Yalta conference. Why would IKE send any troops to die for territory being handed over to the reds. Who ended up losing around 70-100,000 soldiers killed taking Berlin and many more wounded
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  11. Experienced? When the odds were even monty got his sorry little self smacked of the continent. And only won with advantages any other genral would have. Winston ran out of officers to sack and got stuck with him - which he regetted
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  12. It's on Monty who was warned by SHAEF,but revisionists are trying to make inroads and get the guy off the hook who not only hatched the plan then didn't have the backbone to actually show up and command
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  13. Just seeing this absolutely a great unkown man. I just told another poster this: I'm convinced his trajectory would have kept rising.A brilliant man who escaped TWICE finally making it back to allied lines for good somewhere in Italy. He would have never been in that position had Winston rewarded his smashing victory by removing 50,000 of his troops.He had no business in the War room I'm convinced that doomed O'Connor's rising star.I can't imagine Brooke,IKE,Monty,Patton,Bradley,Horrocks,Dempsey,Truscutt doing it. Younger guys like maybe Collins/Gavin/Roberts/Lumsden perhaps Winston really screwed the pooch there. The guy takes 133,000 Axis troops,400 tanks,1294 Artillery guns in just under 2 months with 36,000 man Army w/o either air superiority or ULTRA and the brandy adled Winston rewards him by taking 50,000 of his troops and sending them to Greece and Crete,FFS.Which IMHO led to his capture
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  14.  @walterm140  wrote The Broad Front worked fine. The disaster at Arnhem showed the folly of a narrow thrust. -------------------------------------------------------------- Narrow thrust from a narrow mind,Monty didn't do squat since the desert - where he couldn't lose .Walter your talking to an idiot who thinks an operation that achieved no tactical objectives is a smashing success. Old Monty at least Japanese Commanders had the common decency to disembowel themselves after a disaster like this -Deep water port of Antwerp wasn't opened -The rocket sites were still operating -17,000 Allied soldiers were killed/captured -Dutch men were forced into slave labor at Wehrmacht Factories or Bunker/tunnel construction in the Reich -22,000 Dutch citizens were starved or froze that winter because of NAZI reprisals for Dutch collaborations with the allies
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  15.  @TheImperatorKnight  no it was ignorance of tactics - even Ramsay pointed at Monty for ignoring the approaches to the port.And according to both Horrocks and Pip Roberts after the war they could have been taken but monty put out the halt order - just like Falaise
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  16. It was very clear to every one it was another in a long string of Monty's misadventures
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  17. Outside of your posts being totally full of shit,they're not that bad - well yes they are. Market Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Monty is handed command.SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout troop.Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved .And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have been.Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics
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  18. That Irving Burns is just troubled tart that enjoys his stroll thru the land of make believe and that you must stop hiding behind the drapes waiting for every passing post on youtube
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  19. go jump in the channel like your hero
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  20. Boy Burns, Clausewitz warned against marching through a valley without having taken the hills. Market Garden was the equivalent of doing just that. Monty didn't have the decency to show up like those he got slaughtered of a real Field Marshall Model When your done cleaning your teeth with your finger try using it to flip thru the pages of a history book
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  21. From Market Garden Reconsidered There are many factors that can be cited for the failure of Operation Market Garden, all deserving of consideration: General Student thought the airborne landings were a great success and blamed the failure on the slow progress of XXX Corps In this respect, Generalfeldmarschall Model deserves credit for the skill with which he used the sparse resources available to him, particularly given the state Fifteenth Army was in at the time, and for recognising the importance of the Nijmegen bridges. Lt General Brereton reported to Washington that Market had been a brilliant success but had been let down by Garden, with which Bradley in part agreed, blaming Montgomery and the slow advance by the British between Nijmegen and Arnhem Lt General Browning's report blamed XXX Corps' underestimation of the strength of the German forces in the area the slowness with which it moved up the highway the weather, his own communications staff and 2nd Tactical Air Force for failing to provide adequate air support. He also managed to get General Sosabowski dismissed from his command for his increasingly hostile attitude
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  22. From The Guns at Last Light,page 282,by Rick Atkinson The new bridgehead over the Waal failed to uncork the advance to Arnhem as Montgomery had hoped. After a 35 hr delay at Nijmegen,XXX Corps vanguard sat for another 18hrs .Enemy raids on Hell's Highway played hob:reinforcements from the 43rd Division took 3 days to travel 60 miles in reaching the Irish Guards and 82nd Airborne .Gavin concluded after 4 yrs British veterans were excessively cautious,nurturing what he called "Why die now" sentiments.He found Colonel Tucker in a farmhouse near the rail bridge seething at the delay. "What in the hell are they doing,why the hell don't they get on to Arnhem" Tucker demanded.
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  23. The Village Anus wrote Unlike the prick Big Woody who quotes just about anyone who writes sonething likes and that he can find on Wikipedia. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just keeps getting better and better.I should be charging for this. Monty failed once and that was continuously so i see how you like him. Ya Alan Brooke and the Germans who were there didn't know but you in your hive of hallucination does?You know who wasn't there? Bernard Law Montgomery.Not sure if it's dementia,delusion or denial Little Villa cobbles together falsehoods & fantasy while scuttling facts not previously encountered making discussion itself intolerable. It took 6months after failing at Monty Garden for Bernard to cross the RHine and that was with Simpsons 9th US ARMY The Hurtgen mistakes does not turn Market Garden's failure into a success. Also, the Lorraine campaign lasted from 1 Sep to Dec, not just 9 days, 6,657 were killed over 3 months and they took 75,000 German PoWs, compared with 17,000 casualties at Market Garden (which was more than the invasion of Normandy) including nearly 2,000 Brits and Poles killed before taking the American killed into account. Market Garden had nearly 3 times the casualties per day. Op Queen and the Hurtgen Forest battles (of which Queen was part) were costly failures, also, but the same argument applies - the period was far longer and the average losses less together with much higher Axis casualties and PoWs and they do not turn Market Garden into a success. Market Garden was a failure. Get use to and over it. Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him The Second World War by John Keegan,page 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable,since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary. Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact.Yet when Bedell-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" This from the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. From Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow .By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road. From September Hope,by John C.McManus,pages 63 General Browning cautioned General Gavin "Although every effort should be made to effect the capture of the Grave and Nijmegen Bridges,it is essential that you capture the Groesbeek ridge and hold it
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  24. Enjoy!Hastings and Beevor are both Pritzker Military Literature Award Winners, and both members Royal Society of Literature & Royal Historical Society. And you mop puddles at the Adult Theater - so you have that going for you.I also quote Dr Niall Barr who has a PHD and lectures at King's College on Military History. HQ blaming Montgomery Alan Brooke's own words "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it ​ The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. He would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary Eisenhower's Armies ,by Dr Niall Barr ,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden, Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer, noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary, followed by an advance on the Rhine, the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticized Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings, Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray. That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings, Armageddon: The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area. With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers, volume IV, by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor, page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty, who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory, Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery; based strictly on military accomplishments, the case for him was very weak The Second World War by John Keegan p. 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary
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  25. https://militaryhistorynow.com/2019/03/12/the-capital-of-ruins-nine-facts-about-the-battle-for-saint-lo/ Crucial to the success of the campaign was the capture of Saint-Lô, a tiny French town 20 miles in from the coast. A strategically vital crossroads for the whole of Normandy and beyond, its capture on July 19 after nearly two-weeks of intense fighting was pivotal to the long-awaited Allied break-out across Europe. German generals would later say it was during the fight for places like Saint–Lô where they “lost the war.”
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  26. swiss boy burns your new attempts at slithering about aren't anymore successful than previously - 12 days quit getting your information from you ample backside.Actual battle started july 7th - july 19th do the math not the meth.
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  27. sure they were of course say that out loud and see how that sounds.Hans and Franz were laughing so hard after Dunkirk they couldn't defend themselves.Even the Frogs didn't want to go back ashore with Monty
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  28. Burns I'm tired of this can you just admit you're an idiot. You're just another of Monty's apologists poking his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan
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  29. Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge, p366 While undoubtedly an American Triumph,the Ardennes campaign produced a political defeat for the British. And as Churchill recognized there was a much greater consequence. Montgomery would find himself sidelined once across the Rhine on the advance into Germany and all British advice was ignored. The Country's influence was at an end The German and Allied casualties in the Ardennes fighting from 16 December 1944 to 29 January 1945 were fairly equaled. - German losses were around 80,000 dead,wounded,missing. - The Americans suffered 75,482 casualties,with 8,407 KIA. - The British lost 1,408 wounded of whom 200 were killed Ardennes 1944: The Battle of the Bulge - Page 304 Field Marshall Sir Alan Brooke was disturbed when he heard Monty's account "it looks to me as if Monty with his usual lack of tact has been rubbing into Ike too much Monty advice".Too much "I told you so"* Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge,page356 On January 18,determined to mend fences, Churchill made a speech in the House of Commons to emphasize "The United States troops have done almost all of the Fighting and have suffered almost all of the losses....Care must be taken in telling our proud tale not to claim for the British Army an undue share of what is undoubtedly the greatest American battle of the War and will I believe, be regarded as an ever famous American Victory" It was Montgomery's own fault that political considerations and rivalries now dictated allied strategy
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  30. The 1,000 tanks were never in the 82nds pre battle plans(field orders),order of battle.Forget if it was Neilands or Poulussen put that in his book and TIK and the other Monty shills run with it.However a Forest that size would certainly be of concern.As the Wehrmacht were certainly in the Ardennes(twice) and the Hurtgen
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  31. The 1000 tank rumor was just that - it was never in Gavin's or the 82nds pre battle plans - you know what is used to make/create your plan of attack.If they knew or thought there were even half that many tanks - it would have been mentioned don't you think - monty owns this debacle
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  32. Unopposed.Metz had to be taken and Bernard couldn't even take Monty Garden - even if he had the cajones to show up - which he didn't
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  33. It stands to reason Pinheads heads would like a narrowthrust.Bernard with spine of a gummy bear didn't even show for his own debacle at Monty Garden as it came apart 3 miles from the start.of course an actual Field Marshall Walter Model was there and directed operations.
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  34. Ah Lyndon playing in the latrine again - At least 6 people quoted here think you are full of it "He had made an awful mistake. I didn't like him at all." Leo Major, the most decorated Canadian soldier of WWII From the Ottawa Citizen,May 7th ,2005 Mr. Major is even less charitable to Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery, who headed up British and Canadian forces. Field Marshall Montgomery's ill-fated thrust deep into occupied Holland in the fall of 1944, a paratroop attack on river crossings, was an utter failure and undertaken at the expense of a broad steady advance. That delayed the the liberation of the country's biggest cities, Mr. Major figures, and condemned their populace to slow starvation through the infamous "Hunger Winter" that took the lives of 20,000 Dutch civilians Pte. Major had an opportunity to express his displeasure with Field Marshall Monty soon afterward. It was during the battle for Scheldt, an estuary guarding the Belgian port of Antwerp. The exploit was supposed to win him a field decoration directly from the hands of Field Marshall Montgomery, but Pte. Major couldn't bring himself to accept. "He had made an awful mistake. I didn't like him at all." Arnhem,Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes:'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle.There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said "Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem" Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.” Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery;based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for Monty was very weak. Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 254 In terms of the Anglo-American divide the Sicilian episode demonstrated that antagonism was not confined to American officers.Montgomery's behavior made enemies of Admiral Cunningham and Air Marshall Tedder as well as their staffs. The much vaunted rivalry between Patton and Montgomery was minor compared to the depths hostility that had developed with the Royal Air Force.Tedder told Patton that Monty was "a little fellow of average ability who has had such a build up that he thinks of himself as Napoleon - he is not"
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  35. It did happen if you type in A Bridge not Far there are a lot of books/vidoes also the 82nd wanted to accompany Guards Armor into Arnhem. They just lost 89 men KIA and another 138 wounded crossing the Waal the widest in NW Europe. "LORD" Carrington backed down after the GIs were making a determined effort to help 1st Para in Arnhem. But none of that really mattered or made a difference. This operation should never have been considered let alone launched. Way too many unreasonable objectives Monty should have been relieved and IKE reassigned for ignoring so much intelligence.
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  36. Americans didn't get their arses kicked out of every country they landed in.You assholes starve 3/4 of a million germans in WWI then stick them with reparations at the Treaty of Versailles. That your crown NEVER gave Ireland ,USA,S.Africa,India or anywhere else they landed lil' villa go tell the Czechs or Poles how great you are
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  37. This was a crap plan from the start and Monty's last gasp at imortality.Instead he rightfully ends up infamous
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  38. Monty was nowhere around Guards Armor was late then sat - that is a fact.Thank Carrington,oops Lord Carrington
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  39.  @cavscout888  he was pathetic unfortunately Churchill fired many good commanders who were getting valuable experience.Then he got stuck with this Prat who in any other Army would have been relieved.Rather than admit a mistake Churchill knew that by this time the combined efforts of the USSR/USA would win the war
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  40. It ws Monty grabbing for glory - piss poor plan,Model - there was a Field Marshall
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  41. Neilands had 3 different aliases and wrote 90 books in 30 yrs only 30 of them on Warfare. And that's your slappy source? Well like Geronimo told you if it gets monty off the hook it must sell like the Bible in Britain :face-blue-smiling:
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  42.  @scaleyback217  Not the whole there were many channels that could be trusted.Why do you think they were round up and shot - or sent to work in the Reich Factories
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  43. The moles they had were,any way monty owns this as ULTRA picked up all the radio dispatches and should have followed SHAEFS directives of opening the deep water port of Antwerp
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  44. Exactly - then came Churchill,O'Connor was robbed of his position not only in the Army but I believe in History
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  45.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  I wouldn't call him an idiot he was a brilliant statesman and possessed great oratory - perhaps born 100 yrs too late. Political change was coming that clashed with his old school aristocratic views. He did have the unique ability to rally the country at an extremely bleak time.But had no business in a war room. For instance he should have left Auchileck and Dorman-Smith alone
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  46. Just imagine what the Irish would do.Erin Go braghless
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  47. Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them. Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance. Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through them and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe
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  48. Monty was an idiot,even the Russians used the Broad front thrust. British author of Military History, Max Hastings, The SECRET WAR, Spies, Ciphers, and Guerrillas 1939 -1945 referring to Field Marshal Montgomery on page 495 “The little British field-marshal’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence, and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944.The same overconfidence was responsible for the launch of the doomed airborne assault in Holland on 17 September, despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, together with Field-Marshal Walter Model’s headquarters at Oosterbeek. Had ‘victory fever’ not blinded Allied commanders, common sense dictated that even drastically depleted SS panzers posed a mortal threat to lightly armed and mostly inexperienced British airborne units. Ultra on 14-15 September also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force eighty miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armor, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. The decision to launch Operation Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies The Dutch Army Staff College final exam before the war asked students about how to advance north on just this road. Any student suggesting a direct assault up the road was failed on the spot. Only flanking well to the west was accepted as an answer
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  49. BTT if you by a lottery ticket you could hit the jackpot with just about the same odds as this debacle succeeding
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  50. thicko it proved the rube Bernard didn't have a clue because 1400 Britsh trucks broke down and so did their replacement engines. So the burden landed on the GIs(again) to move all the American supplies,the massive antwerp port was needed for it. Even with 79 yrs of hindsight you're still as bad as Bernard was at this ,pitiful really
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  51. ​ @sumivescent Well since Ramsay and not the Mongrel monty actually planned the amphibious landings on June 6th, along with 200 other officers.Many from the Pacific where the GIs were coming ashore weekly he should have a big say with his ships risking artillery and mined waters along the Scheldt . Montgomery had 6 months to plan CAEN and got stopped on the beach then in town for 43 days "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."
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  52. Rightfully so these two thought it prudent.Specially when you factor in British Lorrie situation breaking down Wilmot's "The Struggle For Europe" and on page 524 of the Reprint Society London 1954 edition By the start of September all the transport reserves of 21st Army Group were on the road. Imports were cut from 16,000 tons per day to 7,000 so that transport companies could be diverted from unloading ships to forward supply. This gain, however, was almost offset by the alarming discovery that the engines of 1,400 British-built three-tonners (and all the replacement engines for this particular model) had faulty pistons which rendered them useless. These trucks could have delivered to the Belgian border another 800 tons a day, sufficient to maintain two divisions. By reducing the daily tonnage of First Canadian Army, by bringing in fresh transport companies from England, and by such expedients as welding strips of airfield track on the sides of tank-transporters to convert them for supply carrying, 21st Army Group was able to provide enough supplies to carry Dempsey's two forward corps into Belgium as far as Brussels and Antwerp, but with it's own resources it could go no further. See "The Administrative History of the Operations of 21 Army Group." p.47 So the GI's Red Ball express couldn't keep lugging all that tonnage 483 miles from Cherbourg. Not without assistence from either an open port or the British Lorries pulling their weight rather than in tow
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  53. Get Help,have them change you meds at the home
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  54.  @GFStodtmeister  you are sort of right - i don't personnaly know anyone who rates Biden high
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  55.  @nickdanger3802  Burns is in Pediatric Government Care
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  56. The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies
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  57. The Village Anus picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue - he's Monty's little swiss boy Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  58. ​ @seth1422  Unless they get God Smacked,there is no getting thru to the thickos.They're yapping jackels that lick each others backsides .One of them is Monty's little swiss boy
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  59. Little Villa your favorite perv admits it after the war The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From Blood,Sweat and Arrogance,by Gordon Corrigan,page 417-18 National myth has it that Monty took over a defeated,demoralized and badly led 8th Army,and by his own abilities and powers of leadership won the great victory of Alamein and then went on to drive the Germans & Italians out of North Africa in a whirlwind campaign that could not have been achieved by anyone else. We know this because Montgomery has told us so,not only by his masterly grasp of public relations at the time but in one of the most self serving memoirs ever foisted on the reading public The Dutch Army Staff College final exam before the war asked students about how to advance north on just this road. Any student suggesting a direct assault up the road was failed on the spot. Only flanking well to the west was accepted as an answer - this was monty's baby When interrogated in 1945, Heinz Guderian the Wehrmacht’s foremost practitioner of Blitzkrieg, stated, “ General Patton conducted a good campaign. From the standpoint of a tank specialist, I must congratulate him on his victory since he acted as I would have done had I been in his place.”General Gunther Blumentritt We regarded general Patton extremely highly as the most aggressive panzer-general of the Allies. . . His operations impressed us enormously probably because he came closest to our own concept of the classical military commander. He even improved on Napoleon’s basic tenets The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61 "Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us.He could have done it with out any danger to himself.Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed" Ladislas Farago Patton:Ordeal & Triump(New York:Astor-Honor, Inc., Inc.1964)h,p.505 'If Manstein was Germany's greatest strategist during World War II, Balck has strong claims to be regarded as our finest field commander. He has a superb grasp of tactics and great qualities of leadership' - Major-General von Mellenthin General Balck, commenting on the Lorraine Campaign, said: "Patton was the outstanding tactical genius of World War II. I still consider it a privilege and an unforgettable experience to have had the honor to oppose him" From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS,Transcribed By Major Gary Wade "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks, also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce.But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything. Monty was a good general, I've always said, but never a great one.
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  60. Cornhole quotes Freddie who told Monty in the 1st place not to go.The Pedo ignored him and everyone else even ULTRA
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  61. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops .At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend."With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions". General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt The Facts were more than Little Villa or Cornhole could bare
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  62.  @johnburns4017  Brits always fight to last colonial, usually Australians.Old Monty at least Japanese Commanders had the common decency to disembowel themselves after a disaster like OMG. Try quoting actuall historians and books with page numbers you knob.Puddles are you monty's little swiss boy you keep repeating bullshit and you know it.And here is what Bradley said From Bradley,A Generals Life,Page 299 Gen Bradley wrote "the news of the German escape from the Falaise Gap was a shattering disappointment - one of my greatest of the war.a golden opportunity had truly been lost.I boiled inside,blaming Monty for the blunder". From The Second World War by John Keegan,page 399 In 1944 the USA produced 47,000 tanks ,while Germany produced 29,600 tanks and assault guns.Britain in 1944 produced only 5000 tanks. From September Hope,by John C.McManus,pages 39-40 By September 15,disquieting intelligence about the Arnhem area had come to light.ULTRA AND Dutch intel had detected elements of the 9th& 10 SS Panzer Divisions in Arnhem (Monty later admitted he ignored this) They were not far from the planned British drop zones.Intelligence specialist Maj Brian Urquhart as greatly alarmed by the reports.He already thought that Market Garden was at best a bold gamble ,at worst sheer madness.He was adamantly opposed to it.The Intelligence intercepts were correct.The photographs revealed the presence of camouflaged enemy tanks and self propelled guns in the wooded area near Arnhem "From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact.Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" Center of Military History,The United States Army,The Sigrfied Line CampaignPage174 Spearheading the 30 Corps ground column reconnaissance troops of the Guards Armoured Division linked with Colonel Tucker's 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 the morning of D plus 2, 19 September. (See Map IV) Major formations of the British armor were not far behind. From that point priority of objectives within the sector of the 82d Airborne Division shifted unquestionably in the direction of the bridge at Nijmegen. Already at least thirty-three hours behind schedule because of earlier delays south of Eindhoven and at Zon the ground column had to have a way to get across the Waal. Pages 184-185 First Attempts To Drive on ArnhemCounting from the time of first contact between the British ground column and the 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 on D plus 2, 19 September, until the Nijmegen bridge was taken at 1910 on D plus 3, 20 September, a case could be made to show that the ground column was delayed at Nijmegen for almost thirty-five hours Yet this would be to ignore the facts that first arrivals of the ground column represented no more than a forward reconnaissance screen and that several hours elapsed before sizable British units began to arrive. Indeed, almost another twenty-four hours would elapse after capture of the Nijmegen bridge before the British would renew the drive on Arnhem From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" *https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml * At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. Proof this is a bad plan... the first obstacle each force in this plan had was the very plan itself. XXX Corps stuck going up one road, asking for ambush and serious delays (both occurred) Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow .By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road.
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  63. Wipe Monty's cack out of your eye sockets you carnival barker .You again have displayed your extraordinary ability not to think .Market Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Monty is handed command .SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly.Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved .And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have been.Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics Fromhistorynet.com/eisenhower-fire-1944-45.htm Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them.    Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance. Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it    Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through them and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe BTW babbling Burns it's 80 yrs starting last week that Monty led one of the largest retreats in Military History @ Dunkirk.It's also 75 years ago last week for Victory in Europe.See what a Super Power can do in just 5 yrs.Even correcting all the damage done by the crumbling crown and it's rancid runt got themselves into - You're welcome Johnny Giovanni
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  64. Blow Hole Burns babbled Kershaw's book does exactly that. All from the German side. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- And you've never read it!!! I started quoting the Book & Germans who said the XXX Corp Tankers who sat after crossing the Bridge - and blamed them .YOU hemmed and hawed that wasn't accurate and the Germans didn't remember right - your typical retarded responses - no disrespect to the retarded
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  65. I love quizzes What so called Field Marshall didn't cross the 30 Mile so called Channel for 4 FULL YEARS .It only took 16-20 days to leave? The French,Belgians,Dutch,Poles and Czechs would like to know
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  66. From the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 469 Montgomery hesitated,suspecting that Runstedt 'had enough combat strength for another attack that could punch through to Liege.Collins thought not. "nobody is going to break through these troops" he told Montgomery"this isn't going to happen. "If the Allies failed to attack closer to the base of the salient,they risked leaving a corridor through which retreating Germans could escape, Collins told the Field Marshall "you're going to push the Germans out of the bag,"Collins added,"just like you did at Falaise." CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS Transcribed By Major Gary Wade "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks, also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce. But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything Monty was a good general, I've always said, but never a great one.
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  67.  @jic1  if they saw that it certainly it would not be by a blind eye - it would be pinched and sold to the highest bidder. Unfortunately not every one in the Quarter Masters Dept saw provisions/supplies get to it's intended destination. A huge black market,I had read IKE had sent elements of the 101st in France to the wharehouses and some may have been shot and most certainly tossed in the Brigg.Nothing pissed off front line soldiers more than slackers and thieves benefitting from ill gotten gaines while real men were getting bled out .
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  68. Market Garden failed because He didn't show up after demanding and getting his single thrust Monty's amateur hour planning and school boy buffoonery discounts the basic logistical reality that the German Wehrmacht were falling back upon their own supply and logistical centers. The Germans had lots of practice doing this type of operation because of all their mauled divisions coming back from the Eastern Front then going to France. This means that German Wehrmacht divisions that were mauled could be quickly reconstituted, refitted, and reinforced with replacement up to full strength in short order. The Allies were advancing further and away from their supply centers with long supply lines meaning they were vulnerable to German counterattack or getting bogged down against a German defense in depth with dug in troops in fortifications. The Germans were experts at taking shattered divisions and rebuilding them quickly. SHAEF was right ANTWERP port should have been open.
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  69. From the Top - Monty screwed this to hell and back From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem"
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  70. From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary.Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway "Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed" . Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  71. The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.213-14 On 29 August Horrocks XXX Corp set out on a drive that some conclude might have altered the course of the war. They advanced 250 miles through northern France and into Belgium unopposed and captured the strategic port of Antwerp virtually with out a fight. Horrocks admitted as much "we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might have even have succeeded in bouncing across the Rhine - if we had taken the chance and and carried straight on" There were no significant German forces between Horrocks and the Rhine.But instead of ordering Horrocks forward on September 4 Montgomery halted him. Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.170,by R.W. Thompson In Early September, Montgomery failed to exploit his opportunity by failing to cross the Albert Canal and advance down the Walcheren Rd to capture the coastal batteries situated along the Scheldt that prevented shipping from reaching the port of Antwerp and delivering critical supplies to the Allied Armies massing along the Siegfried Line The Germans quickly took advantage of Monty's failure by sending in heavy reinforcements to the Walcheren area It would take 21 st Army group more than 2 months to clear the region of enemy troops Billy E.T. Williams who was an Intelligence Officer in the British Army during WWII,also lays the blame for the army's failure with the Field Marshall "*At the crucial hour leadership was lacking,the decision that only Field Marshall Montgomery could have exercised for which the hour demanded on seizing options and opportunities"​* Horrocks: The General Who Led From the Front,by Philip Warner,p.111 - "There was only a single low grade division ahead of Horrocks on Sept 4. it was spread over a 50 mile front along the Albert Canal. Horrocks believed that this could have been brushed aside and XXX Corps could have gone on to cross the Rhine"*
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  72. The operation failed because of a failure in planning, intelligence, and a lack of understanding of the terrain's nature. There was also a mistaken belief that the Germans had been all but defeated. Even before the start of the operation, many feared that Montgomery’s plan was too optimistic. The Polish airborne unit commander declared that the plan was flawed and kepy mentiong "but the Geremans,the Germans" He meant that Montgomery’s aims were simply too ambitious and that he was asking too much of his men. Montgomery also assumed that the paratroop unit could retain their landing zones and the bridges for a given period of time. Paratroops were only lightly armed, and without support from ground troops and tanks, they could not hold out for long. The British General was wrong to believe that airborne troops could resist assault from ground troops supported by armor for several days. Crucially Montgomery failed to understand the terrain that he expected his men to fight in. The roads in the Netherlands were narrow, and that the ground around them was unsuitable for armor. This was a fundamental error- Montgomery had simply assumed that his tanks could rapidly make their way to the landing zones by using only the roads. During the battle, the roads became death traps for many British units. They soon became clogged with burned-out tanks and vehicles. This critically delayed the ground forces coming to the support of the paratroopers in Arnhem in particular. Perhaps the Montgomery plan's biggest failing was that it assumed that the Germans had been decisively beaten and that any counter-attack that they could launch in the area would be limited.
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  73. Monty never showed and carrington stopped but slappies like you call them Field Marshall and LORD .Like you bernard wouldn't show his face
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  74. The stopped south of Valkensaard making 7 miles the 1st day,not starting until 1435 quiting at 1800 with plenty of day light left
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  75. Monty had funtioning Apergers unfortunately VILLA seems to share this disability
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  76. Are you Monty's little swiss boy,you get blasted out of the water with Facts and you melt down and attempt to make personal remarks - because Monty faffed this whole thing and you can't stand that.Even the other Brits knew Monty was a cad
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  77. Also this operation pointed out the legitimously of SHAEF's concern for opening Antwerp 1st. That Bernard brushed aside
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  78. Bernard didn't sort squat in the Ardennes he had to apologize to IKE for suggesting he did,and Churchill addressed this at Parliament. You just keep repeating bullshit hoping someone as bereft as you believes it.Monty's orders were to fall back Harmon and Collins thankfully ignored him.And Monty never showed up to direct at Monty Garden, like a real Field marshall Walter Model.Of course the armored column didn't arrive until 3 days later and the 82nd was left to take on armored cars,halftracks with Mounted mg-42s and 20mm AAguns mounted. The Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge,page366 While undoubtedly an American Triumph,the Ardennes campaign produced a political defeat for the British.Montgomery's disasterous press conference and the clamour of the British Press had stoked a rampant Anglophobia in the USA and especially among Senior American Officers in Europe.And as Churchill recognized there was a much greater consequence.Montgomery would find himself sidelined once across the Rhine on the advance into Germany and all British advice was ignored.The Country's influence was at an end The German and Allied casualties in the Ardennes fighting from 16 December 1944 to 29 January 1945 were fairly equaled.German losses were around 80,000 dead,wounded,missing.The Americans suffered 75,482 casualties,with 8,407 KIA.The British lost 1,408 wounded of whom 200 were killed The Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge,page356 On January 18,determined to mend fences, Churchill made a speech in the House of Commons to emphasize "The United States troops have done almost all of the Fighting and have suffered almost all of the losses....Care must be taken in telling our proud tale not to claim for the British Army an undue share of what is undoubtedly the greatest American battle of the War and will I believe, be regarded asan ever famous American Victory" .It was Montgomery's own fault that political considerations and rivalries now dictated allied strategy http://www.3ad.com/history/wwll/memoirs.pages/marsh.pages/ardennes.campaign.htm Monty's orders were to withdraw​ farther west on the 24th to form a defense line and "tidy up the front" without taking any action. Our 2nd Armored Division CO, Major General Ernest Harmon disregarded that order​ and moved to block the advance near the village of Ciney. The Recon scouts sent word that the Germans had stopped near Celles, apparently to allocate the fuel now in short supply." "At 1435 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "We've got the whole damned 2nd Panzer Division in a sack! You've got to give me immediate authority to attack!" Despite Collins disobeying Monty's orders, he gave Harmon the OK." "At 1625 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "The bastards are in the bag!" On this day the German 2nd Panzer Division trapped and unable to maneuver was destroyed. The enemy lost 81 tanks, 7 assault guns, 405 vehicles of all types, plus 74 big guns. An actual account of the enemy killed and captured was not recorded. It ceased as a fighting force. The German 9th Panzer Division desperately attempted to rescue the 2nd Panzer, but was beaten back with severe losses." Lightning Joe Collins did alot of the shoving at the North Shoulder of the Ardennes.Collins found himself on the northern side of the German 'bulge' at the start of their Ardennes offensive. He played a major part in the defeat of the German attack, disengaging on his eastern front and turning south to attack the northern shoulder of the 'bulge', blocking the German transport routes through St. Vith The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 469 Montgomery hesitated,suspecting that Runstedt 'had enough combat strength for another attack that could punch through to Liege.Collins thought not. "nobody is going to break through these troops" he told Montgomery"this isn't going to happen. "If the Allies failed to attack closer to the base of the salient,they risked leaving a corridor through which retreating Germans could escape, Collins told the Field Marshall "you're going to push the Germans out of the bag,"Collins added,"just like you did at Falaise." Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,pages 196-97 Montgomery was the main reason the Americans were stretched in the Ardennes. 16 U.S. divisions were sent north of the Ardennes to compensate for manpower shortages within the 21st Army Group It was similar to Carentan,the Americans were again asked to shoulder the burden of offensive warfare in a sector that had been reserved for his majesty's forces. Or as one American writer recalled Monty was judging 1st Army by the standards of the British 2nd Army,which had barely moved from November 7th to February 8th As a result only 4 U.S.Divisions were strung out in the Ardennes Sector. While in the north Monty accumulated 31 divisions 15 British/Canadians and 16 US. From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page415 Montgomery wrote on December 15th "that Hitler's plight was so dire that he cannot stage major offensive operations" (Oops,on December 16th the Ardennes offensive began.The twisted twirp wasn't even right for a day.)
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  79. You and history have but a fleeting acquaintance Monty Garden - his boss and allied HQ blamed him And monty later admitted it.
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  80. ah another gamer that needs sorting - Bernard like you was nowhere around during the operation. Go visit his statue in Arnhem,oh that's right - there isn't one
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  81. Cleaning latrines no doubt in your case,you have elementary reasoning or perhaps none at all . Monty had 4 full years to cross a 30 mile channel - what was the problem - Hollwood?Ya best let the bigboys get it sorted ♦Hollywood wasn't there when 198,000 Tommies got tossed into the Channel - Monty was.​ ♦Hollywood didn't make 81,000 Tommies surrender at Singapore ♦Hollywood didn't make 32,000 Tommies surrender at Tobruk ♦Hollywood didn't sign a deal with The Reich annexing the Czech Republic - Britain did. ♦Hollywood didn't stop Britain from crossing the 30 mile channel for 4 full years - after getting driven into it ♦Hollywood never showed up at Market Garden,neither did Monty ♦Hollywood didn't fill ship after ship with tanks,trucks,,halftracks,men,material,munitions, planes,provisions,food,fuel for the duration of the war to prop up the crown. ♦Hollywood didn't promise that Caen would be taken in D+1,Monty did and finally took it 43 days later. ♦Hollywood didn't promise before Market Garden that they'd go to Berlin then couldn't even make it to Arnhem - Monty did ♦Hollywood didn't give 16 U.S.Divisions to Monty's 21st Army Group,IKE did. Then Bernard was practically the last one to cross over the Rhine with them ♦Monty didn't destroy 90% of German Armor Allied Air Corps did. ♦Hollywood didn't make up stories about Bernard bathing little boys Nigel Hamilton reported them in The Full Monty . ♦Hollwood wasn't "evacuated" from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Want to know who was?
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  82. Monty owns this debacle, all the air corp personell warned they didn't have the time,machines or manpower to drop men from over 300 miles away. Not at one time and in force.When the planes hit the coast the Germans in the scheldt area radioed back to Arnhem of the advancing formations. They told IKE this but Monty insisted it go ahead anyway,so IKE in one of his few blunders let Monty have his way
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  83.  @lufasumafalu5069  thicko - i read those books and type content of interest from them to file and cache them thus- reading them twice. You should try it - ya might actually learn some history instead of barking out of your backside
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  84. Neilands is a bigger hack than you and no one in academia takes him serious like no one here takes you.The plan is just one of Monty's many blunders
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  85.  @sjonnieplayfull5859  good posts thanx
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  86. Dave hack what does that have to do with monty chickening out altogether and Carrington going part way. But in Britain they're called Field Marshall and Lord - you sure the rest of the world buys that shit . Another Bernard blunder - Monty admitted it after he couldn't get in trouble anymore. The American Airforce were supplying how many transport planes?
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  87. what author, book and page number??? Monty isn't studied except as a bad example and didn't cross the channel for 4 full years - only with the big boys after the dunkirking. Blumentriit didn't know the GIs were propping up the snogging wanker Bernard for political purposess. IKE should have been removed for basically desrtoying the British Army at Caen The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page407 Churchill had cabled Montgomery "I greatly fear the dwindling of the British Army is a factor in France as it will affect our right to express our opinion upon strategic and other matters" Intelligence at the Top,by Sir Kenneth Strong Montgomery was letting Bradley's Army lead the way out of Normandy because the Americans could replace their casualties and the British could not .PM Churchill also talked to Eisenhower about the problem the British were having. Churchill called Eisenhower on the telephone and asked him ".....if it was possible Eisenhower to avoid too many British casualties" Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts, p.137 The British desperately needed very substantial American Forces in the British Isles to protect them against a German Invasion should the Soviet Union suddenly collapse With Prejudice,by Air Marshall Arthur Tedder,p.562-63 Our 3 Armored Divisions, the 11th,7th, and Guards , had been counter attacked from several directions and the advance came to a halt.On 20 July. I spoke to Portal about the Army's failure. We were in agreement regarding Montgomery as the cause With Prejudice, Air Marshall Tedder,p.586*​ "Eisenhower's firm commitment to the Anglo-American Alliance dominated his thinking. He handled Allied disagreements in Normandy, at the Falaise Gap and for Market-Garden the same way. *Eisenhower was determined to protect the facade of Allied unity at the highest levels of the Allied command in spite of Montgomery's insubordination which was motivated by both personal and political objectives. *Eisenhower's efforts covered up Montgomery's lies​ in Normandy"
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  88. Seems like Monty forgot that basic fact of Warfare. The commander who underestimates his enemy ( especially when his own intelligence apparatus is ringing alarm bells ) is a fool. The subordinate commanders did not plan the over all operation, Monty did.Stop fetching history from the Cornhole Chronicles The dweeb bragged he had all the supplies he was going to get to General Crerar. Here you go from Crerar himself From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies.When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions .He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays.The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him Marshall,IKE and SHAEF were done catering to the pathetic Pedo.Patton out performed him standing still - literally.LOOK Here From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group. IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to the left flank(21st Army) through out the campaign Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies. IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks,yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks
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  89.  @Radiusthethird  Here you go ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.145 the Irish Guards were an hour and 11 miles behind when it's tanks rolled into Valkenswaard main square on the night of the 17th, and Horrocks no movement after dark extended this shorfall to 12 hours at a stroke It remained to be seen if Guards Armored Division would prove capable of moving the following day with sufficient dispatch to make up at least some of the lost time*
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  90.  @johnlucas8479  correct why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy one would think? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site?
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  91.  @11nytram11  he won in 1st Alamein and laid the Mine fields on the Alam halfa ridge and called over 2 fresh divisions from The Nile Delta.Monty used both his plans and that mine field.The Auk and Dorman-Smith after that battle had to refit,resupply and reinforce.Churchill had too many brandies and sacked him because he wanted him to go on the offensive. Then Monty took10 weeks to launch an offensive.Which was the same amount of time he wanted in the 1st place.Monty was a WW1 sargent and a lying knob. Watch the Desert Generals Part two and go to the 26:19 time mark.3 straight Historians call the berk out
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  92. RW Thompson Churchill and the Monty Myth,both those book are well sourced from those involved,this whole freakin' board was bent on getting Monty off the hook for his failure.The Diva didn't even show up at his own operation like the real Field Marshall Model. Barnett accessed the same archives of actual witnesses and participants of journals.notes,dispatches etc; that Hastings/Barr/Beevor/Bennet/Kershaw/Keegan/Hart/Atkinson/Gelb/Weidner or any other Historian who has been vetted, peer reviewed and of Academic acumen. I don't care that Monty was an arrogant prick or ego maniac,lot of them were.He was horrible as a commander.But happened to be in the desert when the weight of allied advantages were brought to bare collectively on Rommel - he couldn't lose and Auchinlech and Dorman-Smith won right before him.The press made way more out of him than his talent or operations warrented.He was neither honest or effective and took credit that wasn't his and deflected blame that was.Other top British Officers noticed this 1st.IKE should have sacked him or been reassigned himself Again as Bradley said, Montgomery rarely won a battle any other competent general wouldn't have won as well or better Gelb also notes, that Montgomery was not only famously insensitive and deliberately insulting to his brothers in arms, but he was capable of outright lies if he thought it would elevate him above potential rivals
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  93. 5 tanks show up & late on the Nijmegan Bridge.Then decide to sit but at least unlike Montgomery they showed up.Model schooled the twisted twirp just like Patton did on Sicily
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  94. Britain didn't do shit except sell the Czech Republic down the river.From September 1939 - may 1940 - nothing.Then in 16 days got swept off the continent 20 days if you want to count swimming out to meet the retreating boats - yup hard work,swimming is good excersize
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  95. Who is credited with shouting RUNAWAY 1st Monty Python or Bernard? - think real Hard if that's possible,BZZZZT times up Bernard at Dunkirk and later Monty Garden. As a consolation prize Puddles they'll remove your ankle monitor at the home and let you out into the courtyard
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  96.  @TheGixernutter  I wasn't talking to you the other guy has been running down GIs for quite some time.This may have been the most pathetic plan of the whole war and I'm not listening to the 82nd get run down when they took such appalling casualties and weren't at fault - MONTY and IKE didn't think it thru and it cost a lot of fine men.And the Poles don't owe him or them after they got eviscerated
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  97. The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.213-14 On 29 August Horrocks XXX Corp set out on a drive that some conclude might have altered the course of the war. They advanced 250 miles through northern France and into Belgium unopposed and captured the strategic port of Antwerp virtually with out a fight. Horrocks admitted as much "we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might have even have succeeded in bouncing across the Rhine - if we had taken the chance and and carried straight on" There were no significant German forces between Horrocks and the Rhine.But instead of ordering Horrocks forward on September 4 Montgomery halted him. Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.170,by R.W. Thompson In Early September, Montgomery failed to exploit his opportunity by failing to cross the Albert Canal and advance down the Walcheren Rd to capture the coastal batteries situated along the Scheldt that prevented shipping from reaching the port of Antwerp and delivering critical supplies to the Allied Armies massing along the Siegfried Line The Germans quickly took advantage of Monty's failure by sending in heavy reinforcements to the Walcheren area It would take 21 st Army group more than 2 months to clear the region of enemy troops Billy E.T. Williams who was an Intelligence Officer in the British Army during WWII,also lays the blame for the army's failure with the Field Marshall "At the crucial hour leadership was lacking,the decision that only Field Marshall Montgomery could have exercised for which the hour demanded on seizing options and opportunities"​ Horrocks: The General Who Led From the Front,by Philip Warner,p.111 - "There was only a single low grade division ahead of Horrocks on Sept 4. it was spread over a 50 mile front along the Albert Canal. Horrocks believed that this could have been brushed aside and XXX Corps could have gone on to cross the Rhine"*
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  98. From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the 2 SS Panzer Corps were refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here,Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth. And I'm not discussing anything on TIK boards anymore his national prejudice bleeds thru with his inaccuracies.
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  99.  @zen4men  in cans it blocks the light that is a big factor in deterioration of taste. Technology now allows cans to be lined/coated with what to equates to a plastic lining so the steel/aluminum doesn't effect the taste.I came back from Canadian fishing trip and had a few cans left that I forgot about in the basement. It was fine 2 yrs later when I found it
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  100. @Answer Questions A competant Field Marshall should have assessed the combat situation and planned operations accordingly.For instance Taylor/Brereton wanted the drops changed and the Mutt in charge would have none of it
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  101. From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944:p. 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." From the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  102. -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Born General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as Monty bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson's 9th US Army -As that Prince said "my country canot afford another Montgomery success" Monty owns this debacle
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  103.  @ToolTimeTabor  Correct hodges was fighting in Achen if I'm not mistaken.Burns is a troll and this is the Bridge that he haunts
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  104. Carrington showed up with 5 tanks almost two days late then sat - and the Germans themselves confirmed it,sad
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  105. Yes to think the Brits could hold up their end after they got tossed off the continent was a mistake
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  106. Puddles before I give you any more history lessons,you'll have to pick up your plastic soldiers off of the floor over there at the home,it's really pissing off the nurses .Johnny read what Alan Brooke said,rather have your handler read it to you - Monty's fault ,the Air Marshalls said it,the Admirals said it Beddel-Smith said it.Ask your voices they'll even tell you.And answer Mr Lucas's inquiry ,you can't because of your obsession with illusion
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  107. Brereton warned these and Taylor wanted to meet with Monty on the 13th,Monty never showed up as Allied soldiers fell victim to a real Field Marshall Model directing at the battle .During Overlord the 900 C-47s/Dakotas that flew only 4 of 10 planes had a navigator. That's one of the reasons the troops were dropped all over the place. The Air Corps were short of trained crews ground crews and navigators .So 3 months later the days were literally over 2 hrs shorter but there were now 1600 flights and longer flights flying and they were still short on all of the above - more so now with strategic bombing in full swing - they needed them(Navigators) over Germany. And that time period there was no moon, so they absolutely had to fly during the day So 80% more sorties and longer flights during shorter days and Monty was informed of this but his grab for glory went ahead
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  108.  @charlieboffin2432  Kudos to your dad I get that but TIK's boards are full of revisionists.Many blaming the 82nd which is TOTAL horseshit and Monty never showed up and Horrocks promised tanks would show up in strength.On the 1st day elements Graebner's 9th ss showed up in APC's with mounted MG-42s and Halftracks that had 20mm AA guns mounted or self-propelled units. The same units that helped pin Frosts unit in Arnhem. Many of the 82nd got chopped up then/there. And only a 3rd of the division made it as weather kept the other flights from coming . I never said Brits didn't land on Omaha, but it was a decidely an American formation/objective don't know where you're getting that. Look up D-Day casualties
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  109. Here you have it Irving Burns - Brooke and Monty admitting it,maybe you should come clean before it's too late.Repeating all of your fabulous fibs won't get you past the pearly gates Alan Brooks own words "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219"*...*During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." Monty fessing up The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  110. Bullcrap Ike stopped everything to fuel this failed debacle. Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved.
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  111.  @stewartorr1939  he's a fantasy gamer like you who never served or is vetted or peer reviewed - enjoy the crown's comic's
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  112. Bullcrap Burns I already posted the Guards admitted the tanks sat. Like you in front of the monitor
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  113.  @nickdanger3802  stop it Nick that's a strategic retreat - don't you know anything
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  114.  @nickdanger3802  wishful thinking and many pints - play along
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  115. Everywhere you slappie,SHAEF - every officer - even Brooke knew he was a knob and couldn't contain himself. Kind of like you in the comment sections
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  116. That looks familiar like my post of a couple years ago - i agree
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  117. From Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow .By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road. From September Hope,by John C.McManus,pages 63 General Browning cautioned General Gavin "Although every effort should be made to effect the capture of the Grave and Nijmegen Bridges,it is essential that you capture the Groesbeek ridge and hold it.
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  118. From The Cornhole Chronicles Montgomery = the most successful and most battle winning western allied ground commander of WW2. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well if getting tossed off the continent then not crossing a 30 mile wide channel for 4 full years is the criteria then yes he was absolutely smashing.Are you the little Swiss Boy More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined  Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  119.  @nickdanger3802  he got over the Rhine after Hodges,Patton and the 291 engineers.The problem was the casualties he took.They lost a lot of men perhaps because Monty made such a big production of it,inviting the Press and Churchill.The Wehrmacht actually had good intelligence there.They were using their own phone lines that ULTRA wasn't covering
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  120. Monty won because of an embarrassment of Riches and ULTRA.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics.Monty had serious deficiencies in fluid battles, and had limited ability to adjust his methods to changing operational situations. balance,flexibility, cooperation, simplicity and the assimulation of combat lessons.he was vain,rude objectionable From Blood,Sweat and Arrogance,by Gordon Corrigan,page 417-18 National myth has it that Monty took over a defeated,demoralized and badly led 8th Army,and by his own abilities and powers of leadership won the great victory of Alamein and then went on to drive the Germans & Italians out of North Africa in a whirlwind campaign that could not have been achieved by anyone else. We know this because Montgomery has told us so,not only by his masterly grasp of public relations at the time but in one of the most self serving memoirs ever foisted on the reading public The Dutch Army Staff College final exam before the war asked students about how to advance north on just this road. Any student suggesting a direct assault up the road was failed on the spot. Only flanking well to the west was accepted as an answer - this was monty's baby When interrogated in 1945, Heinz Guderian the Wehrmacht’s foremost practitioner of Blitzkrieg, stated, “ General Patton conducted a good campaign. From the standpoint of a tank specialist, I must congratulate him on his victory since he acted as I would have done had I been in his place.”General Gunther Blumentritt We regarded general Patton extremely highly as the most aggressive panzer-general of the Allies. . . His operations impressed us enormously probably because he came closest to our own concept of the classical military commander. He even improved on Napoleon’s basic tenets The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61 "Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us.He could have done it with out any danger to himself.Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed" Ladislas Farago Patton:Ordeal & Triump(New York:Astor-Honor, Inc., Inc.1964)h,p.505 'If Manstein was Germany's greatest strategist during World War II, Balck has strong claims to be regarded as our finest field commander. He has a superb grasp of tactics and great qualities of leadership' - Major-General von Mellenthin General Balck, commenting on the Lorraine Campaign, said: "Patton was the outstanding tactical genius of World War II. I still consider it a privilege and an unforgettable experience to have had the honor to oppose him" From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS,Transcribed By Major Gary Wade "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks, also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce.But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything. Monty was a good general, I've always said, but never a great one.
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  121. Old Monty at least Japanese Commanders had the common decency to disembowel themselves after a disaster like this.He ignored - as in ignorant- rock solid Intelligence from ULTRA,Pictures and the underground . SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.He was all hat and no cattle as they say in Texas
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  122.  @matso3856  good job Mats - read "It Never Snows in September" Monty owns this.Regardsless of what Cornhole barks Market Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Monty is handed command .SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly.His distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved .And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have been.Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics British author of Military History, Max Hastings, states the following in his recent book, The SECRET WAR, Spies, Ciphers, and Guerrillas 1939 -1945 referring to Field Marshal Montgomery on page 495 “The little British field-marshal’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence, and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944. The same overconfidence was responsible for the launch of the doomed airborne assault in Holland on 17 September, despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, together with Field-Marshal Walter Model’s headquarters at Oosterbeek. Had ‘victory fever’ not blinded Allied commanders, common sense dictated that even drastically depleted SS panzers posed a mortal threat to lightly armed and mostly inexperienced British airborne units. Ultra on 14-15 September also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force 64 miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armour, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. The decision to launch Operation Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation.
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  123.  @matso3856  Here's some I've condensed parts instead of copying the whole page From "It Never Snows in September" by Robert J. Kershaw,page 9 Kershaw states"Heinz Harmel 10TH SS Commander was still able to give one of the most lucid accounts of the battles for Nijmegen and Arnhem I have ever heard Kershaw states "I've told the story in their own words".He also interviews 12 other German Soldiers who were present at Market Garden.Kershaw states that "offered were diaries and unpublished personal accounts for perusal that did much to paint a realistic scene". From - 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'It was a lost chance: 'The Allied infantry were too late supporting their tanks' From 'It never Snows in September' by Robert J.Kershaw,map reference pages 192-193 The German Defense of Nijmegan 17-20 September 1944.The KampfgruppeHenke initially established a line of defense outposts based on the two traffic circles south of the railway and road bridges on 17 September.The 10SS Kampfgruppe Reinhold arrived and established the triangular defense with Euling on the road bridge,Henke and other units defending the approaches of the railway bridge,and his own Kampfgruppe on the home bank in the village of Lent.A surprise assault river crossing by the U.S. 3/504 combined with a tank assault on the road bridge on 20 September unhinged the defense.The Waal had been secured by 1900. There was nothing further barring the road to Arnhem 17 kilometers to the North From " It Never Snows in September" pages 304-05 Robert KershawBy 19 september there were 17 German battalions assembled around Arnhem & 15 around Nijmegan .Local German superiority was often achieved because Airborne units had to be dispersed to cover Hell's Highway and hold out under pressure. These slappies literally try to change history 75 yrs after the fact.
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  124. Monty's plan stem to stern - he even fessed up after the war of course, then turned around and tried to blame everyone else
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  125. THE ARDENNES CAMPAIGN By Don R. Marsh Monty's orders were to withdraw​ farther west on the 24th to form a defense line and "tidy up the front" without taking any action Our 2nd Armored Division CO, Major General Ernest Harmon disregarded that order​ and moved to block the advance near the village of Ciney. The Recon scouts sent word that the Germans had stopped near Celles, apparently to allocate the fuel now in short supply." "At 1435 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "We've got the whole damned 2nd Panzer Division in a sack! You've got to give me immediate authority to attack!" Despite Collins disobeying Monty's orders, he gave Harmon the OK. "At 1625 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "The bastards are in the bag!" On this day the German 2nd Panzer Division trapped and unable to maneuver was destroyed. The enemy lost 81 tanks, 7 assault guns, 405 vehicles of all types, plus 74 big guns. An actual account of the enemy killed and captured was not recorded. It ceased as a fighting force. The German 9th Panzer Division desperately attempted to rescue the 2nd Panzer, but was beaten back with severe losses." The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 469 Montgomery hesitated,suspecting that Runstedt 'had enough combat strength for another attack that could punch through to Liege.Collins thought not, "nobody is going to break through these troops" he told Montgomery"this isn't going to happen. "If the Allies failed to attack closer to the base of the salient,they risked leaving a corridor through which retreating Germans could escape, Collins told the Field Marshall "you're going to push the Germans out of the bag,"Collins added,"just like you did at Falaise." Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge, p366 While undoubtedly an American Triumph,the Ardennes campaign produced a political defeat for the British. And as Churchill recognized there was a much greater consequence. Montgomery would find himself sidelined once across the Rhine on the advance into Germany and all British advice was ignored.The Country's influence was at an end The German and Allied casualties in the Ardennes fighting from 16 December 1944 to 29 January 1945 were fairly equaled. --German losses were around 80,000 dead,wounded,missing. --The Americans suffered 75,482 casualties,with 8,407 KIA. --The British lost 1,408 wounded of whom 200 were killed. Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge,p. 356 On January 18,determined to mend fences,Churchill made a speech in the House of Commons to emphasize "The United States troops have done almost all of the Fighting and have suffered almost all of the losses....Care must be taken in telling our proud tale not to claim for the British Army an undue share of what is undoubtedly the greatest American battle of the War and will I believe, be regarded asan ever famous American Victory". It was Montgomery's own fault that political considerations and rivalries now dictated allied strategy
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  126. By stopping and staying in a tank,sorry johnny your heads up a smacked bottom
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  127. The Brits were reeling everywhere,while gallant hardly textbook and berks like you badmouth allies.Monty's debacles had taken it's toll on British Forces.The Russians and Americans took higher casualties because they did the fighting. From Sept.'39-may '40 the German Army wasn't Engaged.The BEF didn't cross it's own channel for 4 full years,they ran off into a desert that no one gave 2 shits about.The GI's traveled 4,000 miles then crossed the last 30 for you,even left Monty tag along for political considerations .You had 200 soldiers killed at the bulge the Americans had 80,000 casualties 8,500 KIA the Germans had over 100,000 casualties with over 10,000 KIA.Real bad asses I respected the Brits but their spawn such as you can eat shit
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  128. Shut your lying hole even his Boss Alan Brooke and SHAEF blamed him.Get a life you poor trampled leaf .Do you sniff from the same tube of glue as cornhole? Monty was all hat and no cattle as they say in Texas.SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  129. Burnhole Monty actually hid after his failed operation and did not attend the after battle council.Where Ramsey,Tedder and many others waited to pound him for his john burns like performance BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p.414-19 Almost every feature of Operation Market Garden,in fact simply reaffirmed what already had become evident in North Africa that Montgomery was generally incapable of conducting anything but solid defenses or attacks with generous lead times,massive materiel superiority and no urgent dead lines. Market Garden had revealed Montgomery' serious lapses in planning as well as severe shortcomings in in operational and tactical command.There was little cooperation between the various staffs responsible. Also lacking was any liaison between the Airborne Army and and those units responsible for ground troops and tactical air power. Montgomery's operation timetable was ambitious to the point of recklessness. Montgomery the man whose main criticism of Eisenhower was his lack of grip,remained remarkably out of touch with day to day operations and incapable of controlling events.He only got as far as Nijmegen and even then never got across the Waal.At no stage during the battle did he visit XXX Corp HQ and not until 23 September when it was almost over did he visit Dempsey at Second Army HQ.According to Freddie DeGuingand,CoS, Montgomery appeared to let things go their own way How could anyone suppose that Montgomery and his army would suddenly change his spots and become the sort of force capable of conducting a fast,concentrated,mobile thrust into the heart of Germany. The Army Monty claimed he could lead to Berlin was created by him in his own ponderous and ever cautious image
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  130. The only thing that supersedes your bullshit is your willingness to express it.We can tell your lying when you move your lips. XXX Corp didn't get off their asses on the 1st day until 2 PM and it was dark at 6 you bullshit artist - they faffed around more than anyone you tool.They made it 7 miles,BRILLIANT - said no one ever.And Guards armor didn't have to fight over the bridge they drove right over.Urquhart had no airborne experience but Monty liked him then he get's stuck hiding in the attic for the 1st 48 hrs.That really shitted things up for 1st Para in the 1st 3 hrs many of the division were already surrounded at Oosterbeek .Here is another fine British historian with a PHD to you that means piled higher and deeper Dr William Buckingham the author or Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944 .He points right at 30 Corp.Time stamped it where he lets into Horrocks and you need to start learning https://youtu.be/Amo1f1_Hvho?t=2140 .Oh and 1st Para had never worked to gether as a whole Division.Just a few elements in Sicily.Where as the 82nd & 101st dropped into normandy as complete divisions you rube.Also the 1st battalion of 1st Para their commander had never been on a mission,he was at a desk .Guy named Joe Lathbury or sumsuch - Monty faffed this to hell and back.And you mop puddles at the Burlesque.
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  131. I've read tons of history and I've never attempted to change it by printing bullshit 70 + yrs after the fact.Specially when his favorite commander gets of the hook,by him doing so.Try reading thru the rest of these posts.
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  132. Burns you are a one legged man in an ass kicking contest .You jrks started this by falsely accusing the 82nd for the bent freak Monty's lack of commanding skills.The USA came 3,500 miles across the ocean on Liberty Ships filled stem-stern with supplies.Monty couldn't come across a 30 mile wide channel after getting driven into it .He was propped up and in fact was counter productive.Your crown sat there while austria fell and you sold the Czechs down the river in the Munich agreement.When Poland fell war was declared yet not conducted.Sept'39-May '40 - nothing even the Germans called it SitzKrieg.Then in less than 3 weeks got brushed off the continent loaded onto the boats and back home.While the Tommies were brave to a fault the Crown's old boy Aristocrazy command let them down miserably.Lions led by Jack Asses indeed.Evidenced in the appt of Monty was awful at commanding. Terrible. As in, no fooking good.
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  133. Center of Military History,The United States Army,The Sigrfied Line CampaignPage174 Spearheading the 30 Corps ground column reconnaissance troops of the Guards Armoured Division linked with Colonel Tucker's 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 the morning of D plus 2, 19 September. (See Map IV) Major formations of the British armor were not far behind. From that point priority of objectives within the sector of the 82d Airborne Division shifted unquestionably in the direction of the bridge at Nijmegen. Already at least thirty-three hours behind schedule because of earlier delays south of Eindhoven and at Zon the ground column had to have a way to get across the Waal. Pages 184-185 First Attempts To Drive on ArnhemCounting from the time of first contact between the British ground column and the 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 on D plus 2, 19 September, until the Nijmegen bridge was taken at 1910 on D plus 3, 20 September, a case could be made to show that the ground column was delayed at Nijmegen for almost thirty-five hours Yet this would be to ignore the facts that first arrivals of the ground column represented no more than a forward reconnaissance screen and that several hours elapsed before sizable British units began to arrive. Indeed, almost another twenty-four hours would elapse after capture of the Nijmegen bridge before the British would renew the drive on Arnhem
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  134. After Dunkirk and Singapore where you knobs blamed the ANZACS we couldn't watch any longer .So we alowed the Crown to tag along one last time - just to feel like the Big Boy.Stick to waterboarding Ghandi Disciples or Malivinas Goat Herders - that's an even match BTW Johnny it's Friday get all gussied up in your "Who Farted" T-Shirt and head out to Picadilly
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  135. I love when you keep posting you make a bigger asshole out of yourself than previously believed.Took 6 months after Arnhem to cross the Rhine.Again real historians - you won't be to keen on the Truth.All 3 fine British presentations,you won't like them though.Even Model ,Student,Brereton,Browning and the Germans in Arnhem couldn't believe Monty was a commander https://youtu.be/Amo1f1_Hvho?t=2140 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZZMaWxIxrU *https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml * At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. Proof this is a bad plan... the first obstacle each force in this plan had was the very plan itself. XXX Corps stuck going up one road, asking for ambush and serious delays (both occurred) Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow. By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road .
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  136. Again Burnhole Pierre The berk's top general didn't like the plan From Carlo D'este,Decision in Normandy From the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable*1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed
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  137. Nor did his Chief of Staff - can't make this up I tell you Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him
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  138. Your Commanders,were second rate and that's being generous .You sit here screaming and kicking like the little brat in the sand box - no one believes you nutthugger - go watch the videos,by actual professional not little wienered wankers like you
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  139. I Know you've signed out of your other account References were given,stop trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit.The French/Belgians/Dutch were gratefull as for what ever reason the English wouldn't come across the ENGLISH Channel .So the GIs came across the Atlantic with food,fuel,men,materiel then across the Channel - AGAIN,.Even let the failure montgomery tag along even though he got so thoroughly worked in Sicily.Joe Stalin even cabled FDR thanking him knowing Monty had already ran away once.And figured Churchill migh even replace him with some one capable
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  140. 20-22,000 Citizens of the Netherlands lost their lives because of the Honger Winter that followed.Too bad it couldn't have been your relatives little villa so we wouldn't have to hear your bile spewed
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  141. Burns get that massive head wound looked at,are you a shut in and social media your only contact with the outside world? Thicko it proved the rube Bernard didn't have a clue because 1400 Britsh trucks broke down and so did their replacement engines. So the burden landed on the GIs(again) to move all the American supplies,the massive Antwerp port was needed for it. Even with 79 yrs of hindsight you're still as bad as Bernard was at this ,pitiful really
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  142. Monty had not explicitly ordered the Canadians to take in because he didn't think Market garden would fail like most of his other endeavors.That's on Monty
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  143. Seems like Monty forgot that basic fact of Warfare. The commander who underestimates his enemy ( especially when his own intelligence apparatus is ringing alarm bells ) is a fool.The subordinate commanders did not plan the over all operation, Monty did.Stop fetching history from the Cornhole ChroniclesThe dweeb bragged he had all the supplies he was going to get to General Crerar .Here you go from Crerar himself From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies.When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions .He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays.The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him Marshall,IKE and SHAEF were done catering to the pathetic Pedo.Patton out performed him standing still - literally.LOOK Here From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group. IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to the left flank(21st Army) through out the campaign Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies. IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks,yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks
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  144. It boggles the imagination at what the Allied Armies might have done to the Wehrmacht with-out Montgomery working so effectively for them. Monty and his frail,feckless, half assed advances doomed any operation he was involved with.Not the Americans fault that the British units didn't deploy effectively using deplorable methods filtered down from Monty's ineptitude.
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  145. You don't understand anything about the critical importance of LOGISTICS. Everything you are talking about is claptrap. How do you move an armored division or a motorized infantry division low on fuel, supplies, ammunition and other supplies? What happens to a tank out of ammo or fuel and a truck without fuel or spare parts? Here is a clue the tank PARKS and the truck PARKS and the whole damned American Army STOPS. Strategy depends on logistics and supplies. Otherwise, no maneuver or attack is possible without ample supplies of the right kind, in the right place, at the right time. Ike's whole strategy was a broad front strategy. You may not like Ike's broad front strategy but it worked well in the grand scheme of things. The politics of clearing those German Wehrmacht divisions OUT OF FRANCE was critically important for the French and the American public at home. The most important battles were for Cherbourg, Brest, Le Havre, Marseilles and Toulon because these were PORTS.(Thank You RX from Minn)
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  146. But Monty puhleeeze,What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. And then barely.. and poorly.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics.Monty had serious deficiencies in fluid battles, and had limited ability to adjust his methods to changing operational situations. Balance,flexibility, cooperation, simplicity and the assimulation of combat lessons. He was a legend in his own mind. It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction,you idiot Szun Zu - The Art of War"the worst mistake for a general is to underestimate its enemy...!"
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  147. Cheers hey mate,hi mate,hitey ho mate.get a room you rubes.Your boys were driven into the channel.IKE and the GIs gave them 4 full years to cross the English Channel.What was the problem?30 miles the GIs came 3500 miles and supplied the failed English Army again,just like the last war.Should have left your goose stepping cousins have you It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction Monty had serious deficiencies in fluid battles, and had limited ability to adjust his methods to changing operational situations. balance,flexibility, cooperation, simplicity and the assimulation of combat lessons.he was vain,rude objectionable - Corelli Barnett From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61 "Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us.He could have done it with out any danger to himself.Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed" From The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 521 Montgomery was in a position to profit by the bitter experience of his predecessors.While supplies on our side had been cut to a trickle,American and British ships were bringing vast quantities on materials to North Africa.Many times greater than either his predecessors had ever had. His principle was to fight no battle unless he knew for certain that he would win it.Of course that is a method which will only work given material superiority - but that he had. .Command of a mobile battle force was not his strong point British officers made the error off planning operations according to what was strategically desirable,rather than what was tactically attainable From The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523 Erwin Rommel - "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education".
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  148. From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group. IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to the left flank(21st Army) through out the campaign.Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies. IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined  Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  149. you haven't looked hard or are a monty fanboi
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  150. your approaching the whole crux of the discussion.Even if somehow a few trickled over the Arhem Bridge Model and Student were conducting clinics in modern mechanical warfare - concepts that Monty never could grasp though he shot his mouth off alot.The allies would have been blasted into the Rhine,killed or forced to surrender .This is precisely why the SHAEF directives to open the deep water port of Antwerp were in fact needed to transport the supply tonnage for the operations just like this.The nearest supply port was Cherbourg 499 miles away
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  151. As Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success . I would say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all
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  152. Johnny remember IKE placed the The 9th there to make sure there'd be no more Dunkirks,he placed 1st there to make sure there were no more Singapore's.And Freddie was there to make sure Monty and you would not be sharing the bubble bath all clear Johnny.
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  153. Little Villa Bernard lost a lot. What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials, and air support. And then barely.....and poorly. And Mark Orifice Patton held the field after Metz that was last taken 400 yrs ago.Unlike Monty who wasn't even at Market garden nor did he hold the field. One lane attack is the idea of an idiot
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  154. @ninjakid6 it was a bitch Monty only took Caen because of Naval and Aerial bombing far and away the heaviest in Normandy
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  155. you're right that's exactly what Guderian,Rommel and Manstein did after Dunkirking Brooke and Bernard - shameful I'm sure you'd agree
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  156. Bullshit GIs picking up after britain - just like the last war.Even Brooke said Monty faffed it
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  157.  @Sammyli99  he's in the governments care and wears an ankle monitor so cut him some slack.He says funny things when sedated
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  158. Little Villa REALLY,I'll post those quotes again - if you quit posting.His own boss and the rest of Allied HQ blamed him but like you he lied so it's easy to see why you look up to him
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  159. it was a shit plan and scarcely a trained military man couldn't see it.But even IKE didn't think it'd blow up this bad.
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  160.  @davidrendall2461  Yes I've read your posts on TIKs original OMG board and you make many compelling points.But his boards are peppered with shall we say creative license.Much like Monty's memoirs and dispatches.Also many on TIKs board say your uncle was wrong but I don't think so but since shit rolls down hill Monty gets off scott free - as he did many times before. And Rommel however didn't roll down one elevated lane open to tank/artillary fire. I've said the UK had great soldiers but he wasn't among them.Would have liked to seen what O'Conner,The Auch,Dorman-Smith,Slim,Alexander or Gott would have done given the same benefits. Monty belittled and berated everyone he came across with not alot to show for the talk. Just not buying this 70 mile debacle in the Netherlands was the fault of a General(Gavin) who many Monty fan boys conveniently blame for a hastily slapped together operation. That and the fact he wasn't British. When right from the start panzerfausts were taking out XXX Corp tanks south of Valkenswaard .I unfortunately have been reduced and sucked into salty exchanges by some of those slappys.Beevor was right Monty may have had funtioning aspergers .It was only a matter of time before he popped off to the wrong guy.I guess it depends on who's ox is getting gored.Too much group think on some of these boards .As Patton said " If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking."Anyway have enjoyed reading your takes and insights unlike many of the finger pointers
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  161.  @hollowmstr  exactly because every officer at that meeting said open the Estuary 1st before attempting shoehorning a whole corp of Armor up a 64 mile highway with no room for manuever.Everybody except for IKE and Monty knew the port had to be open to support such an operation
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  162. Nothing he frequently posts a lot of irrelevant rantings,mostly to divert attention from Monty's pathetic performance or his sad,preposterous defense of him
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  163. Rommel would have made quick work with those advantages.Britain had great commaders,Slim,The Auk,even Alexander or Canadian Simmonds.Their Air Marshall Conningham/Tedder or Admirals Ramsay/Cunningham were 1st rate all did much more for the war effort they just didn't blow their own horn.Monty like McArthur in the Pacific couldn't help themselves
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  164.  @gawdsuniverse3282  He has been spewing his bilged backed up by nothing but rooting interest
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  165. Lyndon latrine you are a lying c*** but being a monty fan I expect that.Monty wanted to fall back and in fact was going to get removed until he apologized to IKE. Now i'll fetch that and Churchill's remarks for you if you quit posting. In the meantime look up Lucien Trueb and the Full Monty. Even the biggest fanbois of them all Nigel Hamilton admits that. So when you're done cleaning your teeth with your finger try flipping thru a history book
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  166. Lets say against all odds half those Allies made it to Arnhem then what?They had no supply at all and back up only if weather permitted.And Model has the Ruhr right there and all the 88s,Tigers,Panzer IVs and Stugs at his beckoning by rail and in force - Dunkirk II - The Rhine
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  167. said no one ever 😂
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  168. Clausewitz warned against marching through a valley without having taken the hills. Market Garden was the equivalent of doing just that.Having only one road to advance upon should have been warning enough not to undertake the operation. -The idea of Monty in charge of an operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable dread and the Krauts with incredible joy. Bernard was in reality a plodding, unimaginative,spotlight grabbing little shit "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:p.525 Alan Brooke wrote about Monty in his diary "He requires a lot of educating to make him see the whole situation and the war as a whole outside of the 8th Army orbit. A difficult mixture to handle a commander in action and trainer of men,but liable to commit untold errors,due to lack of tact, lack of appreciation of other people's outlook. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.262-63 Brigadier E.T. Williams, Montgomery's Intelligence Chief cautioned the Field Marshall that the Allies "enemy appreciation was very weak" and that no proper study of the ground around Arnhem had been made . A radio decrypt also revealed the enemy expected a XXX Corp thrust toward Nijmegen. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.270 one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in the area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp, the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. we might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02 General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Sir Francis De Guingand, From Brass Hat to Bowler Hat, p. 16. - Unfortunately I cannot say that I did support Operation MARKET-GARDEN Montgomery's supposed master stroke; but as I was in the hospital in Aldershot I was powerless to dissuade him. I attempted to, on the telephone; for there were too many ifs in the plan and Prince Bernard was warning, from his intelligence network in Bolland, that German armoured units were stationed there. However, to my telephone warnings Montgomery merely replied, 'You are too far away Freddie, and don't know what's going on' Liddell-Hart, History Second World War, p. 594 Liddell-Hart, although understanding Montgomery's reasoning, believed that the last true hope to end the war in 1944 dissolved with the halting of Patton's tanks on 23 August 1944.
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  169. little villa hiding behind the curtain like Lucien from Monty. IKE never sat on his Cen outside of Caen for 43 days.He never sat 30 miles across the channel for 4 full years.He never had 200,000 GIs tossed into the drink or had 81,000 troops give up to 34,000 w/o ammo - so ya you got us little villa tell the congregation how mum took Jerry prisoners.Where was D-Day daddy again
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  170.  @Chasstful  don't waste your time,these guys are in the governments care and have internet privileges.Their magnificent empire sat 30 miles across from Gerries for 4 full years.With every other army in Europe they got run off the continent.They came back across with Who?That's the rub and these berks know it.The Western Allies had to give Stalin a bold look the Russians were a looming threat so the GIs saved a seat for the Crown at the Big Boy Table
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  171. Cornhole,Your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones .One almost needs a bucket when you post! So Brooke,Ramsey,Keegan and Tedder are full of shit but you a monty nutthugger are to be believed.LMAO - say that out loud and see how it sounds From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303*Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant,Doubleday & Co,1st American edition, copyright 1959.From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10thPanzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact.Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" Even John Keegan The Second World War by John Keegan,page 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable,since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp.Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary.On 10 September he secured Eisenhowers assent to the plan. Cornhole are you Monty's little Swiss Boy?
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  172. WRONG he stated he got all of the supplies he needed to Canadian General Crerar - in fact bragged about how he got one over on Allied HQ
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  173.  @jwilson9273  yup this Mullberry is about as sharp as the Harbor,he is simply an uneducated fan boy. XXX Corp didn't show up until 1900 on September 20th that 3 days.The Germans had attacked the the 82 in APCs with mg-42s Half tacks had mounted 20 & 37 MM AA guns that literally saw troops in half.Lets see MuleBerry stand up to that.He is ignorant on history,topography,enemy size and location and the failure of Montgomery who never showed up to the front.Unlike the real Field Marshall Model who was there and directing in person.4 stinking tanks made it to Nijmegan then they sat.The Germans even couldn't believe it
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  174. This was disjointed for 70 miles .The British Paras didn't take their Objectives.Not their fault either,way to many points of contention to depend on this abortion working.Monty should have been relieved and IKE reassigned.Others at SHAEF weren't as Gung ho
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  175. This just keeps getting earier and easier. BTW how is it Monty got driven into the ENGLISH channel,and never got Dunkirked after the GIs arrived? Read Monty's confession Monty's misadventures - where was he when this debacle started coming apart everywhere almost immediately? Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses at the Belgian border until the Troop support and supply flights went over at 2:30 in the Afternoon?Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like they promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. And why didn't Monty or the Others think to put the bridging equipment up front?17 bridges over 12-13 canals might have come in handy ON TIME don't you think? All 4 Senior British officers and not one thought of this glaring over site - that explains why the RN & RAF was much better led than anything Monty came up with. Try reading what the top officers in the Alliance had to say Alan Brooke's own words​ "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely...." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it ​ The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary Eisenhower's Armies ,by Dr Niall Barr ,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden, Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer, noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary, followed by an advance on the Rhine, the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticized Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings, Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray. That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings, Armageddon: The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area. With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers, volume IV, by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor, page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty, who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory, Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery; based strictly on military accomplishments, the case for him was very weak Fancy some more little villa?
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  176. Monty won because of an embarrassment of Riches and ULTRA.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics.Monty had serious deficiencies in fluid battles, and had limited ability to adjust his methods to changing operational situations. balance,flexibility, cooperation, simplicity and the assimulation of combat lessons.he was vain,rude objectionable From Blood,Sweat and Arrogance,by Gordon Corrigan,page 417-18 National myth has it that Monty took over a defeated,demoralized and badly led 8th Army,and by his own abilities and powers of leadership won the great victory of Alamein and then went on to drive the Germans & Italians out of North Africa in a whirlwind campaign that could not have been achieved by anyone else. We know this because Montgomery has told us so,not only by his masterly grasp of public relations at the time but in one of the most self serving memoirs ever foisted on the reading public The Dutch Army Staff College final exam before the war asked students about how to advance north on just this road. Any student suggesting a direct assault up the road was failed on the spot. Only flanking well to the west was accepted as an answer - this was monty's baby When interrogated in 1945, Heinz Guderian the Wehrmacht’s foremost practitioner of Blitzkrieg, stated, “ General Patton conducted a good campaign. From the standpoint of a tank specialist, I must congratulate him on his victory since he acted as I would have done had I been in his place.”General Gunther Blumentritt We regarded general Patton extremely highly as the most aggressive panzer-general of the Allies. . . His operations impressed us enormously probably because he came closest to our own concept of the classical military commander. He even improved on Napoleon’s basic tenets The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61 "Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us.He could have done it with out any danger to himself.Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed" Ladislas Farago Patton:Ordeal & Triump(New York:Astor-Honor, Inc., Inc.1964)h,p.505 'If Manstein was Germany's greatest strategist during World War II, Balck has strong claims to be regarded as our finest field commander. He has a superb grasp of tactics and great qualities of leadership' - Major-General von Mellenthin General Balck, commenting on the Lorraine Campaign, said: "Patton was the outstanding tactical genius of World War II. I still consider it a privilege and an unforgettable experience to have had the honor to oppose him" From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS,Transcribed By Major Gary Wade "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks, also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce.But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything. Monty was a good general, I've always said, but never a great one.
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  177. Or how about Browning himself Lt Gen Browning to Maj Gen G. E. Prier-Palmer, British Joint Services Mission, Washington, D.C., 25 Jan 55, excerpt in OCMH "I personally gave an order to Jim Gavin that, although every effort should be made to effect the capture of the Grave and Nijmegen Bridges as soon as possible, it was essential that he should capture the Groesbeek Ridge and hold it —for … painfully obvious reasons …. If this ground had been lost to the enemy the operations of the 2nd Army would have been dangerously prejudiced as its advance across the Waal and Neder Rhein would have been immediately outflanked. Even the initial advance of the Guards Armoured Division would have been prejudiced and on them the final outcome of the battle had to depend." Pretty straight forward and simple - even you can understand it.
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  178. Yes he was much faster at leaving but the GIs made sure he could cross his channel after 4 years - your welcome
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  179. Correct,This operation was condemned at it's inception it shouldn't have been considered let alone launched. And good men paid the price for Monty and IKE ignoring the red flags Tim Saunders, The Island: Nijmegen to Arnhem ,Battleground Europe,p. 43 "The terrain that the spearhead of XXX Corps now had to cross, was worse than anything experienced so far. General Horrocks summed up the military qualities of the ground: ‘With its dykes, high embankments carrying the road and deep ditches on either side it was most unsuitable for armoured warfare. It was perfect defensive country in which the anti-tank gun hidden in the orchard was always master of the tank silhouetted against the skyline.’ With the weather deteriorating daily, ground conditions on the Island would get worse." The Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 365-66 In fact the fundamental concept of Operation Market Garden defied military logic because it made no allowance for anything to go wrong,nor for the enemy's likely reaction .In short the whole operation ignored the old rule that no plan survives 1st contact with the enemy.Montgomery even blamed the weather not the plan,even asserting the plan was 90% successful because they got 9/10ths of the way to Arnhem Center of Military History United States Army The European Theater of Operations THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN by Charles B. MacDonald Pages 199-200 Perhaps the real fault of the plan was overambition​.Yet all of the handicaps possibly could have been overcome had the British ground column been able to advance' as rapidly as General Horrocks had hoped. Another glaring fault was dependence upon but one road.​ In any event, the ground troops were delayed for varying amounts of time south of Eindhoven, at the demolished bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal at Zon, and at the Waal bridge in Nijmegen. Combined with the kind of resistance the Americans had been experiencing at Metz and Aachen, MARKETGARDEN proved that the Germans in the West might be down but they were not out. page 439 "Even before the invasion Allied planners had noted that "until after the development of Antwerp, the availability of port capacity will ... limit the forces which can be maintained. Getting Antwerp was one of the main reasons why Eisenhower had strengthened Montgomery's northern thrust." September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 42 The sad truth was that Market Garden could not be changed or amended into a better concept. It stood as what it was a deeply flawed plan based mainly on hope.Stemming from the faulty premise that a single thrust into Northern Germany could magically spell doom for Hitler. It was a zero defect plan that could succeed only if everything,or at least most things went right The Second World War by John Keegan p. 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary A General's Life,by Omar Bradley and Clay Blair,p.329 On September 14,ULTRA reported that Walter Model commanding Army Group B had established his HQ at Oosterbeek,on the outskirts of Arnhem. An ULTRA report of Sept 16 placed the 9th SS and "probably" the 10th SS Panzer Divisions in Arnhem itself. These reports proved to be absolutely accurate. (ULTRA in the West,p,153,Bennet)
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  180. you'll have to excuse me I'm discussing on another board how all 3 Para divisions didn't reach their objectives because because the Gerries actually had a real Field Marshall named Model.Who BTW couldn't believe some moron tried to shoehorn a whole column of armor up one single road for 64 miles.But in London this is BRILLIANT,SMDH.and of course Model was present during hostilities while the lewd lemur Monty was a no show Actually Boy Browning had no Para or WWII field experience.But the real culprit was no where around - MONTGOMERY.Ignores SHAEFs directives of opening up a deep water port.Monty didn't do that at Antwerp or capture Arnhem or the V-2 sites.And brought on the Honger Winter that left the Dutch with 21-25,000 dead civilians. a lot of revisionist idgits attempting to turn Montys chicken shit into chicken salad. Even if XXX Corps tankers displayed the same initiative moving down the road as the 82 nd did crossing the Waal OM-G still would have stalled.Antwerp's port of supply wasn't open because Monty ignored warnings by Brooke/Tedder/Ramsey to do so.Gerries would have reorganized North of the Bridge with reinforcements tactfully sent by Model from the near by Ruhr.Would have been Dunkirk II but some here like to dabble in delusion Jim Gavin's decision to secure his drop zones, and re-supply probably prevented the US 82nd Airborne division from duplicating the British 1st Airborne's fate.
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  181.  @akgeronimo501  Model was playing chess and Monty with himself From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies.When he got them, Monty rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions.He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays.The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him From September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 167 It probably would have been difficult for Warren of the 82nd to hold both ends of the Nijmegen Bridge against the combined might of Kampfgruppe Henke,the SS recon.battalion and other reinforcements from the 10th SS panzer Division .In that sense his mission was somewhat unreasonable,it reflected the unrelenting problem the 82nd AB faced in Market Garden namely how it was to hold the Groesbeek heights while at the same time capturing the Nijmegen bridges,especially with only part of the division on the ground.This was the great flaw in the OMG Design and Warren's soldiers paid the price for it.The sad reality was the push for the bridge had failed and was almost preordained to do so. From September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 331-332 Because the Allied route of advance was so constricted and slender any German counter attack was disruptive,no matter how strong or weak.Truck drivers were spending as much time taking cover in the ditches as driving their vehicles,instead of roaring north to Arnhem,tankers & infantrymen were absorbed into pushing the Germans away from the vital road .As a result of all these problems,ammunition,food and gasoline were running dangerously low for Horrock's frontline units as well as the 82nd AB. The amiable Horrocks realized he was actually fighting 3 distinct battles:one to keep the corridor open,one to hold the Groesbeek Heights and one to make it to Arnhem.Obviously this is too much,and it was a direct result of market garden's overly ambitious nature,not to mention everything had to go right for the operation to succeed (this snippett right here is just some of the evidence of how far Montgomery was in over his head.) From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 228 Gavin knew he faced a staggering task.He tried to rise to the challenge of a bad plan without complaint and achieved a remarkable success.The 82nd could hardly hold the Groesbeek Heights and take the key bridges at the same time.With the presumption of minimal German opposition - there was no margin of error for the operation.Which was open to the assumption of maximum risk.Most of the tactical objectives were outside,not within the landing areas
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  182. Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined  Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  183. Keep it up Giovanni you'll graduate from idiot to imbecile in a decade or two.
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  184. Yes but had not Stalin bled the Reich - rather the the common foot soldier things would have been different.What if they and the USA were not pulled into the war.Had Hitler just circled the lands they lost in WW1 and just grabbed them.There was little the Crown could do about it.They may have even unleashed all of that on the UK
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  185. Page 331 Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen It seems you and history have but a fleeting acquaintance .It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction you idiot
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  186. www.historynet.com/eisenhower-fire-1944-45.htm Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them. Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance. Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through them and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe.
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  187. From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group. IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to the left flank(21st Army) through out the campaign Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies. IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks,yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks
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  188. I don't care that Monty was aprick or ego maniac,lot of them were.He was horrible as a commander.But happened to be in the desert when the weight of allied advantages were brought to bare collectively on Rommel - he couldn't lose and Auchinlech and Dorman-Smith won right before him.The press made way more out of him than his talent or operations warrented.He was neither honest or effective and took credit that wasn't his and deflected blame that was.Other top British Officers noticed this 1st.IKE should have sacked him
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  189. This fools errand should never have been considered let alone launched.Way too many moving parts to coordinate. Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.138 Brereton was not in a position to exploit strategic intelligence,and he would also have known that Montgomery had access to ULTRA and never the less decided that Market Garden should proceed. First Allied Airborne depended very heavily on Mongomery's 21st Army Group for their supply of intelligence. 1st Parachute Brigade summary by Capt. W.A. Taylor that appeared on September 13th which pointed out that "the whole Market area was being feverishly prepared for defense" - a statement entirely in accord with Dempsey's diary notes of September 9th & 10th Brereton and Dempsey along with most of Allied HQ warned the Laggard Monty not to play looses with men's lives.But the creep seeking glory ordered it forward Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.256-257 The crucial link ups between airborne and ground forces was more problematic; they were interlinked and interdependent. So much that the failure to capture of just one objective could lead to the failure of the entire undertaking. Given that no large-scale airborne operation mounted by the Allies or Germans had ever previously secured absolute mission success, there was a strong probability that Market Garden would fail. Market Garden was founded on flawed suppositions, massaged intelligence, the neglect of past lessons and the acceptance of innumerable risks, which substantially reduced its chances of success even before it was placed in front of Eisenhower. The idea of conducting multiple lift operations against deep and well defended objectives was fundamentally unsound and can only be deemed a blunder of truly staggering proportions. And required repeated daytime airlifts to far inside enemy territory more that 300 miles from Allied Transport bases 1)Monty was a no show - in every army that marched except evidently yours the commander is responsible for what does and does not occur under his watch during his Operation 2) Monty or the guys right under him Horrocks/Dempsey/Vandeleur sat on their arses until 2:30 in the afternoon on the 1st day at the Belgian border waiting for the planes to fly over .Did they some how think they'd catch up? Had they left at day break they would have made the bridge at Son. That the Gerries blew up in the afternoon 3) Of Monty/Horrocks/Dempsey/Vandeleur NOT ONE thought to put the bridging equipment up front. How ignorant of so called veteran officers. Didn't they think going over 17 Bridges and 12-13 rivers/canals that might come in handy at some point in time? Bernard himself after the War admitting it ​ The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  190. What other rare gems have you two poltroons mined for us today? little villa probably because you only have read to you the crown's comics ♦Hollywood wasn't there when 198,000 Tommies got tossed into the Channel - Monty was.​ ♦Hollywood didn't make 81,000 Tommies surrender at Singapore, ♦Hollywood didn't sign a deal with The Reich annexing the Czech Republic - Britain did. ♦Hollywood didn't stop Britain from crossing the 30 mile channel after getting driven into it,for 4 full years after Dunkirk. ♦Hollywood never showed up at Market Garden,neither did Monty ♦Hollywood didn't fill ship after ship with tanks,trucks,,halftracks,men,material,munitions, planes,provisions,food,fuel for the duration of the war to prop up the crown. ♦Hollywood didn't promise that Caen would be taken in D+1,Monty did and finally took it 43 days later. ♦Hollywood didn't promise before Market Garden that they'd go to Berlin and didn't even make it to Arnhem,Monty did ♦Hollywood didn't give 16 U.S.Divisions to Monty's 21st Army Group and was practically the last one to cross over the Rhine with them ♦Hollywood didn't make up stories about Montgomery bathing little boys The Full Monty reported them
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  191. you're right should have stayed out of both European wars
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  192. Stevie when you are done scribbling in your comic books ask the nurse to read to you "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. *I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place.*​ Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow" Monty admitting it The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here, Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth.
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  193. good post the 82nd held on to the heights after at least 2 attacks .You lose your drops - you're screwed look what happened to 1st Para.The 82 nd actually had the most objectives and the farthest apart.This debacle belongs to Monty and to some extent IKE for letting the pratt run witha very bad plan.Way too comlicated with too many units with seperate objectives. As Prussian Commander Von Moltke said ‘No plan survives first contact with the enemy’.Market Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Monty is handed command .SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly.
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  194. @M Glenn Good Post and needs to be pointed out more,ignoring 55 miles of XXX Corp cock ups trying to hang it on a Junior officer (Gavin)who had only a 3rd of his division on the ground on day 1 with fighting going on in the City/Bridge/Landing zones.And a so called Field Marshall named Monty no where around.Funny a real Field Marshall named Walter Model was and directing in Person.I'd say Monty appeared lost - but the sad fact is he never appeared at all
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  195. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan. Seems like Monty forgot that basic fact of Warfare. The commander who underestimates his enemy ( especially when his own intelligence apparatus is ringing alarm bells ) is a fool.The subordinate commanders did not plan the over all operation, Monty did.Stop fetching history from the Cornhole ChroniclesThe dweeb bragged he had all the supplies he was going to get to General Crerar. Here you go from Crerar himself From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies.When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions .He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays.The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him Marshall,IKE and SHAEF were done catering to the pathetic Pedo.Patton out performed him standing still - literally.LOOK Here From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group. IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to the left flank(21st Army) through out the campaign Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies. IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks,yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks
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  196. Monty didn't sort out shit he wanted to withdraw and Generals Collins and Harmon ignored the rube and went on the offensive
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  197. Monty lied at Caen,Falaise and Market Garden to both IKE and Brooke he was a turd in the punch bowl like you here.W/O the GIs he gets tossed in the channel.Had to give 16 US divisions and he stll dithered
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  198. Oh really give him the link I'll show him your forgeries.Making monty out to to be some master as you belittle the GIs sent on your behalf and behest.Your army got driven into the sea - not mine - yours and you continue to caterwaul like that field mouse is an actual Field Marshall - a title given him to assuage his bruised ego when over all command of Normandy was taken .As Monty's pitiful performance at Caen,Falaise Gap and Market Garedn proved he should have never had any command at all.
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  199. Keep posting village ass like your aliases on your account you throw shit against the wall hoping someone will believe you.Hey berk which one of those 4000 + posts.This just keeps getting better and better.Explain to korbell the bravery displayed at Dunkirk and Singapore and not crossing a 30 mile wide channel for 4 full years.Ya you got me LMAO.Are you Monty's little swiss boy?
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  200. Well do it I'vequoted the best historians out there .You because of Monty's not only pathetic but meagher efforts are forced to revise history much like your little lover of swiss boys Monty himself.Since 2013 you've badmouthed and backstabbed the GIs sent on your behalf/behest. Where shall we start you insisting the Germans had outdated obsolete weapons or your rubbish about Monty saving anyone.Or those British masterpieces of Singapore and Dunkirk then have to listen to you cads at every turn.Well when after those beauties what did you expect? But you were'nt out of men, Max Hastings and Keegan both stated you had more than well over 100,000 thousand in the home guard
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  201. Neilands the author started that rumor and it wouldn't have mattered because Monty ignored sound advice that got good men killed.Old Monty at least Japanese Commanders had the common decency to disembowel themselves after a disaster like this
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  202. Hamilton who is a monty nutthugger and full of shit,basically anyone quoting is eliminated from any serious discussion on WWII history.Monty actually wanted to pull back but General Joe Collins and Earnst Harmon went on the offensive.Hamilton should have some dignity and get off his knees.He follows in his Fathers footsteps sucking off Monty also - pathetic when you think of it
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  203. John Burns My therapy is stomping the snot out of you in the comment section, so fine thanks for asking
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  204. Puddles is the home taking you to Wally World this summer?It's always good to get the disadvantaged out and about
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  205. Monty could't direct mice in a maze .The idea of him in charge of an operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror.And the Krauts with incredible Joy More Monty victims  Barrie Rodliffe       joined 26 Sept 2013    Giovanni Pierre     joined 28 Sept 2013    John Peate            joined 28 Sept 2013    John Burns            joined 07  Nov 2013    John Cornell          joined 13  Nov 2013    TheVilla Aston      joined  20  Nov 2013
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  206. arsehole they had 89 men killed and 138 wounded crossing the WAAL.While XXX Corp & Carrington stopped and hid in his tank - not unlike you.Horrocks himself called the crossing the bravest act he witnessed in the whole of the war. The BEF lost 81,000 at Singapore - they are called the John Burns Brigade. The GIs had to cross 3,500 mile ocean just to hold Monty's hand the last 30 over the channel - shameful I'm sure you'd agree. How do you feel about mopping puddles at the Adult Theatre and knowing your hero was a Pedo. If you listen closely you can still hear the Gerries snickering and the Frogs screaming sacre bleu
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  207. Yes your therapy is shocking - Electro Shock,you finally figuring that out
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  208. https://militaryhistorynow.com/2019/03/12/the-capital-of-ruins-nine-facts-about-the-battle-for-saint-lo/ Crucial to the success of the campaign was the capture of Saint-Lô, a tiny French town 20 miles in from the coast. A strategically vital crossroads for the whole of Normandy and beyond, its capture on July 19 after nearly two-weeks of intense fighting was pivotal to the long-awaited Allied break-out across Europe. German generals would later say it was during the fight for places like Saint–Lô where they “lost the war.”
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  209. Burnhole Burns babbled Caen was strategically unimportant. ------------------------------------------------------------------ As big as an idiot as Montgomery was - indeed Caen was important .You have again have displayed your extraordinary capacity not to think. It was the major road network in that area . And had air fields that monty didn't grab for two months also. After their massive bombing of Caen to get him to move & he still dithered - that was to be expected
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  210.  @johnpeate4544  AGAIN lampshade IKE liked women and never got driven into the channel. And Monty didn't cross the damn thing until the GIs came across the ocean. Read the Full Monty that's truly lamentable
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  211. Britsh pathfinders were captured with their radios and they listened in to everything thing. Even they couldn't believe Monty chickened out unlike a real Field Marshall Walter Model
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  212. In The Last Offensive, the U.S. Army’s official account of Operation Varsity and the final drive into Germany, Charles B. MacDonald, a veteran infantry​ officer who had served with the 23d Infantry, 2d Infantry Division, in Europe in World War II, stated that with the weak condition of German units east of the Rhine, “some overbearing need for the special capability of airborne divisions would be required to justify their use, ” and that the specific need never existed. the objectives were important, the ground forces could have taken them without difficulty, and in all likelihood, with fewer casualties. As evidence, he pointed out that the amphibious crossings faced very little resistance; the two American divisions in the river assault, the 30th and 79th Infantry Divisions, lost a total of forty-one killed, 450 wounded, and seven missing. James A. Huston, in his book, Out of the Blue: U.S. Army Airborne Operations in World War II, agreed with MacDonald, adding that “had the same resources been employed on the ground, it is conceivable that the advance to the east may have been more rapid than it was.” Jack Ariola US Soldier in side a glider "the anti-aircraft fire was so thick we could have got out and walked on it. Bullets and FLAK were coming thru the glider and every time one hit the bottom glider and came out the top it sounded like the crack of a whip only 10 times louder Otto Leitner, German Lieutenant "with so many aircraft it was difficult not to hit something. I ordered my men to keep firing in the hope to fill the sky with metal and damage the aircraft"
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  213. Yup that vaunted 40 million man army of the Empire put a severe skull thumping on that 30 mile wide channel.Guderian and Manstein were laughing so hard they couldn't defend themselves.The envy of the western hemisphere
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  214. Shut your lying hole even his Boss Alan Brooke and SHAEF blamed him.Get a life you poor trampled leaf .Do you sniff from the same tube of glue as cornhole? Monty was all hat and no cattle as they say in Texas.SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  215. What's wrong puddles,Did your blow up doll run off with your pull toy?
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  216. Burns you've done enough drugs to send sniffer dogs into early retirement.Ike had to loan the 1st US Army to make sure there would be no more Dunkirks.He loaned the US 9th Army to make sure there would be no more Singapores .Now be a dear and pick up your green plastic soldiers so the nurses don't slip on them
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  217. The voices say burns is the Swiss Boy
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  218. Jerk off they were not in the 82nd pre battle plans or post battle report.They were a creation of Neilands Monty's very own heel hound
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  219. That your posts are a steaming pile from the morbid mind of yapping jackel.
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  220. More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  221. Puddles go check out the statues of Monty in Arnhem - oh that's right there aren't any.
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  222. How come Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student was able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September, not in October and not in November Montgomery This from Seth 1422 who throttled your sorry self Sunset on the first day, September 17, was at 19:50, darkness was at 20:30. When the Irish Guard halted at 19:30 it also was not in contact with the enemy, so advance in darkness was not impossible. Sunrise on the 18th was at 07:15, meaning that the Irish Guards did not move for half of the available daylight on the second day. No Irish Guard tanks were destroyed immediately, but instead contact with the enemy was made around 16:00. It should also be noted that according to JOE Vandaleur’s own account, he had lunch with his cousin and a female reporter, then went for a swim in a roadside villa before starting the Guards moving on September 18th. Whatever resistance they did ultimately encountered late that afternoon could have only been an increase on what they might have faced with a swift advance at 07:30. So that is the place where swifter advance was possible. The Irish Guards had suffered badly the first day, so I understand their reluctance to smash ahead. But if that formation was spent it should have been rotated out before dawn. These delays only made the Germans better able to obstruct the road. According to the one British officer Major Hibbert of 1st para starting here https://youtu.be/50ogHjrQFBE?t=2282 in this video they had disabled the charges on the Bridge. So if accurate and I believe he would know Horrocks tankers sitting back on the Nijmegen Bridge could have made it. But they didn't move even though elements of the 82nd wanted to carry the fight forward.It's interesting....and unfortunate
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  223. MIKEY sources?hardly not in the middle of battles.Patton cleaned up with those 105s at arracourt and Monty used them profusely in the desert another shrew on John Burns account
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  224. Quit repeating Tripe - the whiskers name was Monty,go jump in the channel like your hero
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  225. It's hard to dig in when an army keeps moving.That's why O-M-Garden was a disaster that stopped the southern thrust.This gave the Gerries time to dig and grab preferable ground vs 3rd Army that was stopped because of the meerkat Monty
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  226. Dempsey wasn't much better,Monty's sock puppet
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  227. Burns get that massive head wound looked at.Frost wasn't wrong you ankle biter.Quit trying to prop up the vicious runt monty
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  228. He never showed up and was pretty much toast amongst the Officer Corp, afterward waisted time/men/materiel
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  229. He didn't plan Overlord the guy simply wasn't all that.This operation had way too many variables to factor in dis-jointed is the best description.The Air Corp made it perfectly clear there were way too many drops - 700 more than D-Day and much longer also.Strike 3 when factoring in 3 months after the summer solstice - just under 4 hrs less sun light. Reality exists,Monty ignored Beddel-Smith's ULTRA dispatch and Admiral Ramsay's warning about supply base all very crucial in a war.Every one basically said he waved us off.IKE like a little kid was just happy to see him moving.They both should have been demoted
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  230. Um no Churchill and Brooke didn't even want to consider it.Until FDR and Stalin made it clear that faffing around in the med wasn't doing squat. So France it was - complaints go up orders come down those were given to Monty and everyone else. Hundreds were involved in the planning the USA had been making landings in the Pacific almost by second nature. How many times would you like to repeat this Ramsay had more say,especially figuring the logistics for the landings
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  231. No Cornell has been here since 2013 he's changed to a different acct Lyndon MCP or sumsuch,same m.o.,same statements. I've been here since 2018
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  232. again hundreds were in volved and reading up on Monty's chronic flip-flopping and incredulous story telling he'd produce nothing over the top.
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  233. I would have no problem in the Auk's Army - THE AUK.Winston was too bi-polar,half genius half mad. Claude Lined the Alam Halfa ridge with mines he and Dorman-Smith won 1st Alamein and had things moving. Churchill sacked him for telling the truth - they needed 2 months to refit/resupply/reinforce. So he brings in Monty who plies him with brandy then takes one week longer to go on the offensive. Actually Winston called up General Gott but his plane got shot down on the way
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  234. The 300 Shermans and the 105 mm Howitzers (promised by FDR) arrived before that.Also ULTRA was fully functioning again after the Germans had added a wheel to Enigma that had to be decyphered all over again.With full aerial/naval superiority and the 8th army supplied by Alexandria 100 miles away and the AK supplied clear back to Libya at Tripoli 1,000 miles away and supplies basically strangled .Factor in the Torch Landings and Rommel didn't stand the chance of a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.Yet he still got away at the end with the Afrika Korp having 34 sandblasted tanks left after 2 yrs
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  235. Bernard will see you in the channel for your FULL MONTY tosser dave
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  236. Burpsy bellowed Rambo, I think they allow you to roam the streets because you are harmless. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm sure they let you out at the home for the same reason.You're like london always in a fog.See if your relatives weren't doing the naughty together you wouldn't be having these problems - probably
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  237.  @thevillaaston7811  7 PM is not the morning of the 3rd day nice try though
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  238. LMAO EVERYONE? you bark bombast expecting to be taken at your word that has more holes than one of Monty's battle plans,it was the deal 89 men lost their lives crossing the Rhine to carry the column in and they stop for what? There was only one gun on the road according to the Germans themselves. We never expect much from you and you never fail to disappoint. You never found a source for your 2 armies on the flanks - because they only exist in you bent imagination. It's better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p309 at the North end of the Bridge Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Amored Division to push on immediately for Arnhem just 10 miles up the road.Their elation turned toward anger as the growing British force remained immobile. LT Patrick Murphy from 3rd Battalion,504th Regiment climbed aboard Sg Robinson's tank and urged him to move only to be informed by the willing Robinson that he had no orders to do so.Capt.Burris was reportedly so furious he threatened the deputy commander of no.1 Squadron Capt.Peter (Lord) Carrington with his Thompson gun,Carrington dropped inside the tank and locked the hatch The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate.Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. *Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points. And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial Arnhem,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced Arnhem,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. So the Germans/GIs/Irish Guards there - then are in agreement - XXX Corp was not only slow but stopped.Set the scotch down and go to bed.
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  239.  @johnlucas8479  ULTRA wasn't fully operational until August '42 and The Auk had been removed by then - wrongly I might add
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  240. Mikey You yammering ham - Bradley wasn't there he was in Luxembourg. And Monty almost got relieved he did nothing THE ARDENNES CAMPAIGN By Don R. Marsh Monty's orders were to withdraw​ farther west on the 24th to form a defense line and "tidy up the front" without taking any action Our 2nd Armored Division CO, Major General Ernest Harmon disregarded that order​ and moved to block the advance near the village of Ciney. The Recon scouts sent word that the Germans had stopped near Celles, apparently to allocate the fuel now in short supply." "At 1435 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "We've got the whole damned 2nd Panzer Division in a sack! You've got to give me immediate authority to attack!" Despite Collins disobeying Monty's orders, he gave Harmon the OK. "At 1625 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "The bastards are in the bag!" On this day the German 2nd Panzer Division trapped and unable to maneuver was destroyed. The enemy lost 81 tanks, 7 assault guns, 405 vehicles of all types, plus 74 big guns. An actual account of the enemy killed and captured was not recorded. It ceased as a fighting force. The German 9th Panzer Division desperately attempted to rescue the 2nd Panzer, but was beaten back with severe losses." Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge,page366 While undoubtedly an American Triumph,the Ardennes campaign produced a political defeat for the British. And as Churchill recognized there was a much greater consequence. Montgomery would find himself sidelined once across the Rhine on the advance into Germany and all British advice was ignored.The Country's influence was at an end The German and Allied casualties in the Ardennes fighting from 16 December 1944 to 29 January 1945 were fairly equaled. --German losses were around 80,000 dead,wounded,missing. --The Americans suffered 75,482 casualties,with 8,407 KIA. --The British lost 1,408 wounded of whom 200 were killed. So both Collins and Harmon ignored monty who wanted to fall back then VII Corps went forward to finish off 2nd Panzer and sent 9th Panzer retreating. The British lost 200 KIA while GIs lost 8,500 killed and the Germans had more in 6 weeks of fighting mike kenny you lying lump
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  241. Bradley took Normandy while the poof Bernard camped around Caen with the largest Bombing of the Normandy Campaign, Naval guns 12 miles away lobbing shells in also with Air corp right across the channel and the laggard still muffed it My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.617 July 19,1944Monty had a press conference yesterday at which he said that at least 156,000 Germans had been killed or wounded since D-Day.Yet in the big push east & south of Caen only 2,500 prisoners were taken. IKE said yesterday that with 7000 tons of bombs dropped(around Caen) in the most elaborate bombing of enemy front line positions ever accomplished,only 7 miles were gained can we afford 1000 tons of bombs per mile?The air people are completely disgusted with the lack of progress My Three Years with EisenHower,By Harry C.Butcher,p.632 August 4,1944 "At the SHAEF forward War Room last evening,I learned that the Allies had captured some 78,000 Germans,of which the British captured 14,000.The remainder falling into American hands.This information was reported on August 1st.Since which we have captured 4,000 a day" My Three Years with Eisenhower," by Captain Harry C. Butcher,p. 651 On August 21, 1944, Butcher wrote about the British reaction to the news that an American General, Omar Bradley, was now equal to their own General Montgomery within the Allied command. "I find that British pride, which seems to have been hurt by the relative slowness of advance of the British-Canadian front as compared to the more newsworthy break-through of the Americans at St. Lo and subsequent end runs, has been hurt even more by the misunderstanding as to Montgomery's command.
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  242. again you talk shyt bradley and collins took their objective,monty needed the massive bombings and shellings. Try reading a book or have your handler or mum do it for you. Then you may leave some sources. or try using the the search bar above to relieve me of furthering your education. Monty and you both need to be spoon fed. US forces captured over 3/4 of the prisoners. Truth hurts - always does. Russia and the USA were now dealing the cards slappy. St. Lô 1944: The Battle of the Hedgerows, by Steven J. Zaloga Gen. Dietrich von Choltitz, commanding the German 84th Army Corps, the battle was “a monstrous blood-mill, the likes of which I have not seen in my 11 years of battle.” By the beginning of July 1944—three weeks after D-Day—Operation Overlord, the Allied invasion of Normandy, was not progressing as rapidly as anticipated. The British Second Army had yet to secure one of its primary objectives, the pivotal crossroads city of Caen, effectively halting its advance on Paris before it began. To block the Second Army the Germans had deployed a staggering force of tanks and armored fighting vehicles along a tight 20-mile front. Farther to the west the American First Army under Lt. Gen. Omar Bradley had just achieved its first tactical objective by seizing the port city of Cherbourg, on the northern tip of the Cotentin Peninsula.“The Battle of the Hedgerows involved no dramatic advances or decisive maneuvers,” Zaloga summed up. “It was a grinding battle of attrition.” The ultimate butcher’s bill was staggering. In less than three weeks of brutal, relentless fighting the First Army suffered more than 40,000 casualties.American troops occupied Saint-Lô proper on July 18. The Battle of the Hedgerows and capture of what remained of Saint-Lô and its neighboring towns opened the gate to Bradley’s Operation Cobra, which enabled Patton’s historic armored breakthrough and race across France, the liberation of Paris and, in less than a year, the defeat of Germany
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  243. From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem
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  244. David Irving Burns you've fooled no one but at least you are getting better at disguising your sickness .You haven't forgot to sign out of one of your accounts before posting in another.Perhaps if they rescind that restraining order and your ankle monitor is removed the management at the home there will take you to the library.I hope those voices leave you alone I have things to do so take your meds like the nice men with the nets there have directed
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  245. Sure it happened all like that,of course it did .Like Custer and the 7th Cavalry whooped up on Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull at the Little Big Horn.That would be a good name for you - Sitting Bull as you do both so well Burns you seem angry did Monty miss your bubble bath? - like he missed showing up for Market Garden? - he boldy ran away and hid, he ran away yes he did, C'mon johnny join the Burns Family Chorus
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  246.  @seth1422  just saw this spot on and I concur
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  247. Monty owns this disaster He campaigned for and got it,BTW he never showed up on the front like the Real Field marshall Model
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  248. The Germans took the British pathfinders prisoner and had their radios slappy.And Monty held back Horrocks and Pip Roberts from advancing almost 2 weeks before Market garden
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  249. Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  250. Boy Burnie we found out what a Tosser you are - "Help me owners of ths site","TIK I'm being nutballed,help me" - could you be a bigger fem.Take your estrogen
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  251. This ones barking - your babble,get it sorted
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  252. That seagulls sucked thru Jet Engines make more sense than you
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  253. Exactly fuck up - move up the Story of Bernard Law Montgomery
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  254. Wow,ND, great find and how true again Monty and IKE own OMG
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  255. That was all about Market Garden. It had 700 more flights - that were not only longer but the days were much shorter
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  256. TheVilla Aston scribbled in crayon What fairytales? Eisenhower made the decision to prioritise Market Garden over the Scheldt. -------------------------------------------------------------------- You are pathetic - you really are I have produced evidence by British sources and Alan Brooke himself dozens of times then you run away attmepting to convince others of your disturbed views somewhere else.Monty ignored the Scheldt even later blaming the CanadiansALL British Historians and Officers,except D'Este From Decision in Normandy, by Carlo D'este from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex. British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed From With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Cassel & Co., 1st edition, copyright 1966. ---Page 599 " Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal." From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, copyright 1959 From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10thPanzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact.Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" - Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him The Second World War by John Keegan,page 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable,since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary.
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  257.  @jthunders  they are one and the same and he literally has now been caught at least a dozen times rearranging written content to state his views. Just an attempt to win an agrument on an anonymous message board. If caught he moves to another thread or board - sick tosser really.Tried telling some guy he was a veteran.I disabused him of this,quickly he even deleted the post a rare move for him. The guy has no shame and evidently no life - he was up posting past 2 am just this morning - it was past 9 PM last nite our time.He's wasted time/ink. It might take me a while to finish this Brute Force - it's on loan from the library
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  258. And when 4 tanks show up late then sit it wasn't going to either.They would have been blasted back into the Rhine,the Gerries where bringing in tons of armor from the Ruhr right around the corner..Monty being the amatuer and braggart missed the chance to open Antwerp as was 1st directed by SHAEF.The Wehr macht had an actual Field Marshall and the Allies unfortunately had......Monty.Who got played like a cheap violin
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  259. Sorry Puddles I have given you all the advantages I could and would not stoop your plagiarizing ideas & juvenile tactics.Good to see you're taking a break from the beatings.This is good as i thought the home may have revoked your internet privileges
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  260. Splish-Splash Johnny, Monty's running the bath.Take as long as you need with typing in and out of your sock accounts - when you're not cleaning your teeth with your finger
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  261. Puddles try on your Big Barrie,Peate or Pierre Psueds,this burns thicko isn't getting much traction
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  262. Burns Which so called Field Marshall chickened out,err I mean didn't show up for his own Operation MONTY GARDEN.Then didn't show up for after battle council.Think real hard Johnny - it's for all the marbles,even though you've lost yours.
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  263. your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones. -did you visit those fine Czech folks like I told you to?Did you explain why your crown sold them out to the NAZI's in 1938 ? --Did you explain to the French why you left them covering your retreat in 1940 while Monty was boarding the boats and they were taking bullets? Kind of explains why they came back with the GIs and took Southern France while Winnie and Brooke wanted to keep faffing around in Italy. -How about the Dutch did you tell them why Monty left them on the horn of the Hun and the Hunger Winter that followed after he didn't have the nerve to show up for an operation that he bragged would take him to Berlin that took him backwords to Antwerp? You big girls blouse take your estrogen then a nap
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  264. Gavin didn't lose shyt,Monty who was no where to be found BTW owns this.Holes were blasted in this very bad plan from Arnhem all the way down south of Valkenswaard.Trying to shoehorn a whole Corp of Armor down a 64 mile elevated lane with no room for manuever is the idea of an idiot
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  265.  @walterm140  shame of it was the Britsh Army had capable officers - that a*****e wasn't one of them
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  266. Village asshole since you don't read books Ryan has plenty of snapshots filling his books of him interviewing many German/American/British officers. No pictures of your uncles or D-Day daddy though.Tell the congregation of the whopper you told geronimo and I about mum taking Hans,Franz and Otto prisoner. 🤣 - can't make that shyt up
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  267. Exactly but some get a tad bit pissy when the truth is pointed out. Claiming the high road while falsely foisting the blame on an ally that came to said offended's troops aide by request of a well known leader 😎
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  268. Little Villa try reading "The Full Monty" - you're mentioned in it. FOAD,you're welcome
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  269.  @nickdanger3802  Burns/villa dabble in delusion the way most artists work in clay or on canvas
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  270.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  The Free French came ashore with General Jacob Devers 6th Army Group and Major General Alexander Patch, U.S. Seventh Army in Operation Dragoon in southern France in August, 1944 and was quite successful.Operation Dragoon was especially important for the French as it was the first full French army to participate in the liberation of France.On Dragoon’s D-Day, the Allies landed 94,000 men and suffered just 395 casualties. The First French Army quickly surrounded Marseille and Toulon. Both cities fell to the French on August 28, a full month earlier than anticipated.Of course Churchill didn't like sharing his American supplies and connections with anyone
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  271.  @davidhimmelsbach557  hello DH good to see your posts again
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  272. That you are like a fugitive from the law of averages and in line for another beating
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  273. The Dutch Army Staff College final exam before the war asked students about how to advance north on just this road. Any student suggesting a direct assault up the road was failed on the spot. Only flanking well to the west was accepted as an answer
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  274. The criticism of Market Garden is redeemed by its utter failure. Not sure how you can argue away the loss of time/men/materiel/machines on a reckless adventure that accomplished nothing except prolonging the war. And kept the port of Antwerp that was desperately needed, from being opened. If they by some miracle some make the Bridge at Arnhem, they are killed,captured or wounded. Out of supplies/ammo/food/fuel and Model is bringing everything in fresh by rail from the nearby Ruhr. Montgomery was a malevolent drag on Allied operations from the time he took over command of 8th Army. MARKET-GARDEN was the pinnacle of his repeated failures.Oh and Monty NEVER had the cajones to show up for his debacle after demanding it. From the very beginning Monty had his filthy fingers in it - there was really no room for error - which never happens - in any battle - anywhere. This operation wasted a lot of lives, equipment, resources. It was the last political chance for the English to stay at the big boy table.
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  275. If your parents were one of the victims of the Honger Winter(20-22,000 died) brought on by reprisals of this failure we wouldn't be reading crap like that
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  276. Congratulations TIK on all that you ignore. IKE neglecting the ineffective effete Monty's insubordinations for too long. Bernard's Rhine crossing was a bigger disaster than Monty Garden if one can imagine that.Ike should have been removed for not removing Monty and his many misadventures.Keep painting your many British fallacies in a glowing light in your knitting circle With Prejudice, Air Marshall Tedder,p.586*​ "Eisenhower's firm commitment to the Anglo-American Alliance dominated his thinking. He handled Allied disagreements in Normandy, at the Falaise Gap and for Market-Garden the same way. *Eisenhower was determined to protect the facade of Allied unity at the highest levels of the Allied command in spite of Montgomery's insubordination which was motivated by both personal and political objectives. Eisenhower's efforts to cover up Montgomery's lies​ in Normandy"
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  277.  @johnburns4017  no johnny Winters said he was a tea sip and wondered where the poof was during his Monty Garden debacle where good men fought and died.He had 4 years - FOUR FULL YEARS to cross the Engish Channel.After getting tossed into it along with Brooke :face-blue-wide-eyes:.GIs had to cross the Ocean to get it sorted - sad but expected
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  278. There are many factors that can be cited for the failure of Operation Market Garden, all deserving of consideration: General Student thought the airborne landings were a great success and blamed the failure on the slow progress of XXX Corp .In this respect, Generalfeldmarschall Model deserves credit for the skill with which he used the sparse resources available to him, particularly given the state Fifteenth Army was in at the time, and for recognising the importance of the Nijmegen bridges. Lt General Brereton reported to Washington that Market had been a brilliant success but had been let down by Garden, with which Bradley in part agreed, blaming Montgomery and the slow advance by the British between Nijmegen and Arnhem Major General Urquhart blamed the fact that the drop zones for 1st Airborne were too far from the bridge and rather unfairly, his own actions on the first day. Lt General Browning's report blamed XXX Corps' underestimation of the strength of the German forces in the area, the slowness with which it moved up the highway the weather, his own communications staff and 2nd Tactical Air Force for failing to provide adequate air support. He also managed to get General Sosabowski dismissed from his command for his increasingly hostile attitude. Field Marshal Montgomery blamed the slowness of XXX Corps in general and O'Connor in particular. Later, he partially blamed himself, but laid a large proportion of the blame on Eisenhower. ". . . if the operation had been properly backed from its inception, and given the aircraft, ground forces, and administrative resources necessary for the job - it would have succeeded in spite of my mistakes, or the adverse weather, or the presence of 2nd SS Panzer Corps in the Arnhem area." There is also the matter of allowing the German Fifteenth Army to escape into northern Holland where it could defend the approaches to Arnhem by not clearing the Scheldt estuary the nature of the highway along which XXX Corps had to advance (a two tank front), the failure to appreciate the unpredictability of the British weather in September, the critical requirement of good communications, which at that point in history was unlikely given the level of technology available and the blatant ignoring of intelligence (from both the Dutch resistance and reconnaissance flights) that armored units had moved into the Arnhem area Sosabowski in particular feared a flexible, speedy, and strong response, saying, The British are not only grossly underestimating German strength in the Arnhem area, but they seem ignorant of the significance Arnhem has for the Fatherland.
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  279. Monty hatched this abortion and didn't have the decency to show up for it
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  280.  @ivan7453  I've read many of the books TIK supposedly read and many of those authors don't come to his conclusions.While TIK is good with the video his content is woefully wanting
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  281.  @johnburns4017  Paul has been brought out as fraud also chirping the same nonsense as you royal revisionists. He like you couldn't defend his numbers. Paul quotes the fraud Poulussen who has no sorces. I'm reading D-Day by Beevor right now and he has 56 pages of foot notes,acknowledgements and Bibbleography. That Hack Poulussen states none but paul runs with it because it gets monty off the hook - in his land of make believe.His army in 4 yrs couldn't cross - why not? Because you dithering dweebs won't admit it we know why. Bernard usually fought to the last ally or Colonial - usually the Aussies. Now be a dear Johnny and pick up your plastic army men off of the floor before mum slips on them. Monty and Burns lied once - continuously
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  282. Little Villa a tosser like you who excuses Monty Garden and thinks bernard was an actual Field Marshall.Ya know like Walter Model who had the guts to show up and direct 🤣
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  283. No it wasn't the 82nd wanted to carry the fight forward,the tanks stopped.Even the Col Heinz Harmal couldn't believe it.The 82nd had nothing to do with Guards Armour shwing up over a day late and vastly inferior numbers. It was Monty's crap plan and IKE should not have approved
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  284.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  The Wehrmacht slammed into the Ardennes because they were using radio silence and allied intel didn't pick up any dispatches as they were then in their own country using landlines not the enigma.They knew their mail was being read. Hitler had a gag order on high command and the JR officers were only told the night before. It's Not like monty faffing around in the desert against a totally overmatched opponent in not only men,materiel,tanks and artillery but ULTRA and complete Air Supremecy - none of it did he procure - the allies did
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  285.  @garymorris1856  well he caved in too much to monty who displayed very little tactical integrity. He wanted to be given everything turns out that's the only way he could win. When the odds were even he got bounced off the continent
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  286. Gavin is small change almost as small as Carrington but this goes on Monty's Mt Rushmore of debacles.The berk never showed up and his plan never made Arnhem let alone Berlin as he boasted that was no shocker
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  287. He was a propped up fraud and rode everyone else's accumulative hard work to a headline.Until the truth unraveled and it was obvious his command abilities were greatly exaggerated as IKE later figured out​. Monty's Memoirs are the greatest work of fiction since chaste and fidelity were added to the French Wedding Vows. Eisenhower went too far making political concessions to a very limited military partner. The USA's involvement was military in nature - it meant the Destruction of the Reich. While Churchill, Brooke and Monty wished for political gains that wanted to restore it's previous empire in the Mediterranean and elsewhere and also attempted to use US Military might to further that agenda .An Empire that once exercised it's Imperial whims on the very country that it was hanging it's hopes on
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  288. What other gems have you mined for us you poltroon? None of the objectives were met : ♦One would say Montgomery appeared lost & helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all ♦Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare ♦The V-2s were still being launched ♦The massive deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for suppliesfor an operation that size ♦Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. ♦The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation,exposure and disease. ♦And all of the Netherlands live stock was sent/driven to the Reich as the Wehrmacht fell back. The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the Germans for assisting the allies. ♦Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as Montgomery boasted ♦Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army ♦400,000 Dutchmen - thu out the War were sent to work as slave laborers for the Reich in defense industry or on bunker/tunnel projects ♦Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success Three distinguished British officers who fought in Holland that winter and later became army commanders believed that the Allied cause could have profited immeasurably from giving a more important role to Patton. ♦Lieutenant Edwin Bramall said: “I wonder if it would have taken so long if Patton or Rommel had been commanding.” ♦Captain David Fraser believed that the northern axis of advance was always hopeless, because the terrain made progress so difficult. He suggests: “We might have won in 1944 if Eisenhower had reinforced Patton. Patton was a real doer. There were bigger hills further south, but fewer rivers.” ♦Brigadier Michael Carver argued that Montgomery’s single thrust could never have worked: “Patton’s army should have been leading the U.S. 12th Army Group.” Such speculations can never be tested, but it seems noteworthy that two British officers who later became Field Marshalls and another who became a senior General believed afterwards that the American front against Germany in the winter of 1944 offered far greater possibilities than that of the British in Holland, for which Montgomery continued to cherish such hopes.
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  289.  @OldWolflad  True but I can swat down theories that some try to pass off as the truth.Have a Good Week End
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  290.  @OldWolflad  German General Ludendorf said in The 1st WW "the British are Lions led by jackasses" much respect for the Tommies and the rest of the common foot soldiers 👍
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  291. as many as it took to get Monty off the hook
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  292. Monty shit the bed if he didn't like anything in the order of battle he should have made his combat assessment and made any changes/adjustments.Hard to do when you don't show up like the real Field Marahall Walter Model.
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  293. Another of monty's many debacles
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  294. What's wrong Johnny did your blow up doll run away with your pull toy?Got nothing better to do but bother adults
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  295. This one's barking,Sorry Puddles,Britain had a chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940. She failed utterly and miserably. From that point onward, whatever Britain does and regardless of what happens to her - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US.Now get into your closet and do what you do best.
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  296.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  a hollow assignment as the USA-USSR were hooking up those troops were jumping in the laps of allies everywhere to avoid the Soviets taking more land. IKE wasn't sending monty out on anything bigger than a security post and ALL THE allies knew it too it was his mouth that caused it also. Churchill didn't get voted out immediately after the war for nothing
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  297. ya the ones jumping into the allies arms to avoid the soviets.While Bradley 12th AG took the RUHR and hooked up with the soviets at the Elbe River
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  298.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony- No it was one even Kampfgruppe Walther and the 107 had to come back to the main rte69 because it wouldn't support armor
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  299.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  but they could only drive the whole 70 miles on 69 others were firm in one area and flushed in another. Gerry already tried as it was they who flooded the already low flood plains
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  300.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  This operation was condemned at it's inception. How could anyone suppose that Montgomery would suddenly change his spots and become the sort of commander capable of conducting a fast,,concentrated,mobile thrust into the heart of Germany. The Army Monty claimed he could lead to Berlin was created by him in his own ponderous and ever cautious image Guards Armored crossed the Nijmegen Bridge at 7:10PM the Nite of Sept 20th.Three and a half days after the operation started surprising no one. Horrocks stated the tanks would arrive on time and in force well neither happened. Monty not only mismanaged this he never planned on the Germans fighting back and ignored ULTRA warning about the 9th & 10th Panzers refitting there Too many flights - too long of flights and not enough daylight. But Bernard promised IKE he get to Berlin and yet never even showed up for the advance on Arnhem. Even the British planners going over Operations Linnet/Comet rightfully stated their concern that the element of surprise would be lost. As the flights starting 50 miles west of London were just over 300 miles total - one way. As soon as the flights reached the coast German units(15th Army I believe) all along the scheldt estuary would radio back about enemy formations approaching so the element of surprise was completely lost. I don't think you know how truly daft this daisy bernard was - you realize he had canaries,bunnies and other sorts of pets traveling with him in that circus wagon of his. No one ever mentions why really the previous two operations were cancelled - because the British planners thought them fool hardy.Just adding 2 more airborne divisions doesn't make it sound just more problematic. But Monty looking for a head line couldn't help himself .And IKE allowed him and his dimwitted single thrust a long leash to hang himself with it. Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:35 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. The Germans got the britsh supplies and left smart ass notes thanking them. Has that army done a hurried thing ever? The Armored column made it a whole 7 miles the 1st day as Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bringing the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but Monty's pathetic planning.This operation is a prime example of the clownish incompetence of his command. But in Britain that get you the title of Field Marshall You think Monty could have inconvenienced himself to attend his own operational debacle that after the war he fessed up to? Largest Air Drop in History up until that point and the poof couldn't be bothered? There were cock ups all the way back to the Belgian Border and it didn't involve Gavin or the 82nd.Ya but go ahead and try to blame this abortion on an Americans 55 miles down the road. And why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think ? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site? Why were Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchful RAF at Pannerden, and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same? Not in September, not in October and not in November None of the above have a damn thing to do with the 82nd,Gavin or Browning.Monty neither captured the V-2 launch sites, Arnhem or Antwerp during Market Garden. And the reprisals brought on the honger winter - great job There is a reason TIK doesn't write a book because he'd get filleted with archived history .
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  301. Irving Burns your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones. The Guards Armored and 43 Wessex just arrived in Nijmegan,tell them the war is over and all is forgiven.
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  302. you still don't know as davie dables in delusion to prop up the tainted waif bernard
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  303. Arnhem: A Tragedy of Errors Hardcover by Peter Harclerode '21st Army Group was one of the formations that received ULTRA intelligence. The Chief of Intelligence, Brigadier Bill Williams, was sufficiently concerned about the presence of 2nd SS Panzer Corps, and more particularly that of 9th SS Panzer Division north of Arnhem, that he drew it to the attention of Montgomery on 10 September, after the latter's meetings with Dempsey and Eisenhower on that day. He failed, however, to persuade Montgomery to alter his plans for the airborne landings at Arnhem. Undaunted, Williams tried again two days later with the support of Brigadier General Staff (Operations) in Montgomery's headquarters, who was standing in as Chief of Staff in the absence of Major General Francis de Guingand who was on sick leave. Unfortunately, their warnings fell on deaf ears. Three days later a further attempt was made to warn Montgomery. Eisenhower's Chief of Staff', Major General Walter Bedell Smith, received a report from SHAEF's Chief of Intelligence, Major General Kenneth Strong, concerning the presence of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions in the area to the north and east of Arnhem. Bedell Smith immediately brought this information to the attention of Eisenhower and advised him that a second airborne division should be dropped in the Arnhem area. Eisenhower gave the matter urgent consideration but was wary of ordering any changes to the operational plan at the risk of incurring Montgomery's wrath. He decided that any alteration could only be decided upon by Montgomery himself and accordingly sent Bedell Smith and Strong to HQ 21st Army Group at Brussels. At his meeting alone with Montgomery, Bedell Smith voiced his fears about the presence of German armor in the Arnhem area, but was waved aside; indeed, Montgomery belittled the information and dismissed the idea of any alteration to his plan.' So Montgomery ignored: Chief of Intelligence, Brigadier Bill Williams Eisenhower's Chief of Staff', Major General Walter Bedell Smith SHAEF's Chief of Intelligence, Major General Kenneth Strong
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  304. You've lied once - continuosly Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp, the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: "Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. we might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine" Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure?p. 201-02. General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks, who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors,"Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities."* ULTRA decrypt XL9188 in early September revealed the various units from Normandy had been ordered to western Holland to refit and subsequent intercepts indicated that this included the II SS Panzer Corp. Not until September 15 had SHAEF high command taken note that the corps two divisions the 9th & 10th Panzer seemed to encamped at Arnhem. Montgomery's senior commanders almost to a man voiced skepticism about Market Garden. Beetle-Smith grew anxious enough to alert Eisenhower, who hesitated to intervene in tactical dispositions but authorized Smith to raise the issue with the field marshall. Smith flew to Brussels on Friday,48 hrs before the assault was to begin and suggested strengthening the force to be dropped at Arnhem. "Montgomery ridiculed the idea and laughed me out of his tent" Smith later reported *"he waved my objections airily aside" For 7 miles from the Belgium border to Valkenswaard the XXX Corp drive stopped cold for 12 hrs Um no you misguided monty fanboi, when the Air Marshalls finally found out from IKE they warned Monty - too many flights - too long and not enough daylight. There were SIX HUNDRED more flights than D-Day. This debacle was originally Linnet then Comet then Monty Garden.But he told IKE anyway he get to Berlin and yet never even showed up for the advance on Arnhem Historynet dot com Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them. Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through them and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe. Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance. Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it
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  305. This operation wasted a lot of lives, equipment, resources. It was the last political chance for the English to stay at the big boy table. Bernard uppity little nothing that was an impediment to the war the way you are to History. Couldn't cross the channel for 4 full years w/o the GIs,shameful I'm sure you'd agree Go tell these places the Crown vacated before FDR intervened Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942
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  306. He's called a historian gary that has the actuall sorces and has been vetted. Maybe when your hallucinations subside the home for the unfortunates where you reside will remove your ankle monitor and take you to a Library - baby :face-blue-smiling:
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  307. The OP is full of shit,1st off trying to shoehorn a whole column of armor up a 64 mile elevated Lane with no room for manuever is the idea of an idiot and a recipe for disaster.Go visit Monty's statue in Arnhem - oh that's right there isn't one
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  308. AGAIN BURNHOLE Bernard like you had the spine of a gummy bear,neither of you were at Monty Garden. And like Patton neither of you were driven into the channel, shocking I'm sure you'd agree
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  309. Ya he's been knighted and never had to take down any of his boards like a certain host who takes potshots and makes up narratives - like little Villa
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  310. evidently Freddie DeGuingand and many in SHAEF advised against this operation.Way to many holes.The Most senior British officers and IKE knew a deep water port had to be opened at Antwerp.Had Allied troops made Arnhem it would have been dunkirk all over again.And the bridge would have been blown.Crap plan by a small minded man
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  311. Germans did not agree,AGAIN From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north "Like Patton they reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend." With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions" .General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted.
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  312. BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p.414-16   Montgomery's operation timetable was ambitious to the point of recklessness. Montgomery the man whose main criticism of Eisenhower was his lack of grip,remained remarkably out of touch with day to day operations and incapable of controlling events.He only got as far as Nijmegen and even then never got across the Waal. At no stage during the battle did he visit  XXX Corp HQ and not until 23 September when it was almost over did he visit Dempsey at Second Army HQ.According to Freddie DeGuingand,CoS, Montgomery appeared to let things go their own way   How could anyone suppose that Montgomery and his army would suddenly change his spots and become the sort of force capable of conducting a fast,concentrated,mobile thrust into the heart of Germany. The Army Monty claimed he could lead to Berlin was created by him in his own ponderous and ever cautious image. Lyndon you lump that is also stated in Operation Victory.Go back to your John Cornell account,hard to believe you faffed this one up worse
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  313.  @thevillaaston7811  Go tell your hallucinations to 501 you troubled tart,Sorry if Otto broke your mum's heart
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  314.  @thevillaaston7811  you weren't there and his sources were early on it certainly looked bad.Specially since they had such an easy time with Brooke and Monty. RUNAWAY,must be a Monty thing
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  315.  @thevillaaston7811  He did right from the top as Tedder was his right hand man.But you don't read as hIstory isn't important to you. As bernard and the whole Lucien /Nigel thing ya know plus British "strategic" withdrawals from: -Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 (338,000,British,Dutch,French Troops in all evacuated) -Greece, Crete & Hong Kong in 1941 (3700 captured in Greece, 12,274 captured in Crete,10,000 captured in Hong Kong) -Tobruk and Singapore in 1942 (28-33,000 captured at Tobruk ,81,000 captured in Singapore) This is well known in historical academia but not by TIK and his hamlet of unhinged halfwits here. Do tell about mum taking Gerry prisoners, that always leaves them in the isle :face-blue-smiling:
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  316. 200,000 were with bernard and brooke during the great skedadle, oh forgot this is TIK's revisionist rag - I meant "Strategic Withdrawal" . The meerkat had 4 yrs to cross w/o the GIs - ya Empire, go ask the Euros
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  317. ya the losers way,The Americans weren't the problem,Monty didn't show up,the Guards armor were well behind schedule and Carrington stopped as the 82nd wanted keep going.What kind of knobs would refer to him as "LORD" - there's your problem. Monty isn't studied at military academies accept as a bad example .The Tanks were late in arriving then stopped,The Germans,GIs and Irish Guards all noted this
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  318.  @arcanondrum6543  great posts, A Bridge too Far was so accurate that Monty didn't appear in it either. It was a horribly disjointed,overly ambtious plan contrived by a damaged little man looking for attention and glory . Monty ignored & discounted the basic logistical reality of not only one road but that the Wehrmacht were falling back upon their own supply and logistical centers. The Germans had lot of practice doing this type of operation coming back from the Eastern Front then going to France. The German Divisions could be quickly reconstituted, refitted, and reinforced with replacement up to full strength in short order. As one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in that area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches accompanying them where armored columns couldn't go The Allies were advancing further and away from their supply centers with long supply lines meaning they were vulnerable to German counterattack or getting bogged down against a German defense in depth with dug in troops in fortifications. The Germans were experts at taking shattered divisions and rebuilding them quickly. SHAEF was right,the Port of ANTWERP should have been opened FIRST The Germans would have had the advantage of interior lines of communications, nearby supply depots, and urban centers to concentrate a counteroffensive against any single attack into northern Germany across the Rhine via Arnhem. A successful attack across the Rhine could only be accomplished from MULTIPLE POINTS simultaneously. This action is exactly what happened in the spring of 1945. IKE's broadfront not monty's debacle of sandwiching a whole armored corp down one elevated lane.The idea you can make one long extended penetration with long extended supply lines into northern Germany, along one axis of advance is IDIOCY . The Wehrmacht still had plenty of infantry divisions, armored division with military resources and capacity to fight in the autumn of 1944. The air transports used for the FAILED Operation Market-Garden should have been used for fuel and ammo deliveries to supplement truck transport for Bradley/Devers advances. The American 82nd and 101st airborne should have been used as regular infantry divisions to spearhead attacks in critical sectors. Most importantly, using the 82nd and 101st for American infantry attacks would have kept them far away from Montgomery which would have been better for everybody.
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  319. yes thank you I rather liked it myself
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  320. IKE wasn't that dumb to let 2 armies shoehorn down a 2 lane road it's bad enought XXX Corp got blasted attempting it
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  321. .So tell me John Pierre Peate how come?How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT do the same ?Not in September, not in October and not in November. Probably because unlike Monty ,Model was an actuall Field Marshall Maybe this explains it,
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  322. CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS,Transcribed By Major Gary Wade "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks, also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce.But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything Monty was a good general, I've always said, but never a great one. Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 319 Montgomery's irrational behavior at the Falaise Gap was also influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman..." The Montgomery Myth,by R.W.Thompson Given British grievous disappointments in the Eastern Mediterranean and the fragile nature of any military alliance,General Montgomery was an extremely poor choice to command an Allied Army Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion.Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery; based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for Monty was very weak From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 365-66In fact the fundamental concept of Operation Market Garden defied military logic because it made no allowance for anything to go wrong,nor for the enemy's likely reaction .In short the whole operation ignored the old rule that no plan survives 1st contact with the enemy Montgomery even blamed the weather not the plan,even asserting the plan was 90% successful because they got 9/10ths of the way to Arnhem General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops .At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after Page 331 Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen Rub-a-dub-dub Burns in the tub http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/26/books.booksnews Prof Hamilton, who was befriended by the field marshal at age 11 and knew him well for the last 20 years of his life, has no doubt of the nature of Monty's feelings. "These were quasi love affairs. He became really passionately involved with these young men - and then, more and more, boys, who he would call 'my sons'. They were nothing of the kind, of course, but in his own personality he would frame them in this way. "I myself have more than 100 very loving letters from him. My relationship with him wasn't sexual, in the sense that it wasn't acted upon, but I had been through enough years at British boarding schools to know what kind of enormous affection and feeling he had for me. "And I wasn't alone, this was a consistent pattern in Monty's life." One boy was Lucien Treub, Montgomery's "little Swiss friend", who met him at 12, and told Hamilton how the Montgomery would bathe him personally and rub him down so he would not catch cold "I've interviewed him several times and he was quite clear he didn't feel there was any molesting going on, but it's a tricky area," Prof Hamilton said.
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  323. TIK is a revisionist and this plan was cancelled twice for obvious reasons. It was cancelled previously as Operation Linnet and then Comet for good reasons by British Planners. Grabbing 2 more American AB Divisions doesn't eliminate those complications. Too many flights, too long of flights and over 2hrs less daylight than the D-Day drops in June. And that wasn't even factoring in unfavorable weather conditions - that did arise. The planners earlier stated when the massive flight formations hit the coast the German Army well dug-in on Walcheren Island and the shores of the Scheldt estuary would radio back immediately to Wehrmacht Command of their approach losing all element of surprise. Remember OVERLORD 2 months earlier was 30 miles across the channel,maybe another 20-30 miles inland these flights were almost 300 miles ONE WAY from air fields 50 miles west of London up into NE Netherlands around Arnhem. The Dutch Army who wasn't really consulted stated going right up highway 69 was one long choke point surrounded flood plains,polder marshes and drainage ditches - it had been war gamed before the war started. Also thousands of experienced, well-fortified enemy soldiers still had to be dislodged from key positions they inhabited. Fallschirmjäger General Kurt Student had dropped into that exact area in 1940 he was very familiar with the area and perhaps the best tactical commander on any front Absolutely not,the objective was to cross the Rhine,and the Port of Antwerp was needed for that.All else is bullshit to cover for this failure .Monty and Ike own this debacle - not the soldiers. TIK/YOU ignores all of this as it doesn't get Monty or the Britsh off of the Hook
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  324. Bad plan it wasn't even comtemplated long and the British Planners cancelled Linnet/Comet for very good reasons. Chiefly it was restricted to one narrow road surrounded by marshes/flood plains/drainage ditches that waas not suitable for armor . Second was the planners earlier stated when the flight formations approached the coast all element of surprise was lost. The German Army well dug-in on Walcheren Island and the shores of the Scheldt estuary would simply radio back immediately to Wehrmacht Command of their approach giving Flak teams plenty of time to prepare for a very warm receprtion. Everything had to go right that never happens in battle
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  325.  @MagpieOz  He knew all of that just stop - There was a very good reason the British Planners of Comet & Linnet dismissed this idea whole sale. Monty getting 2 US Airborne Divisions doesn't eliminate any of those problems. As the results later proved and admitted by Monty. Brereton or Browning were not aware of ULTRA and the information of not only the mobile flak units but the 9/10 th SS refitting in Arnhem. Brian Urquhart 21st army intel officer was relieved for persistently pointing it out. IKE owns some of the blame for letting Monty have his way with his single thrust and ignoring opening the port of Antwerp that was absolutely needed for any Operation this size. The Red Ball Express couldn't keep lugging supplies/provisions from Cherbour 483 miles away
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  326. Crawl back under your rock you revisionist rube.Monty was propped up fraud and only given consideration because the Crown put the GIs up for a spell to finish what they started
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  327. little villa lamented "you're grasping at straws",no he isn't he's stating a fact - a concept that throws bernard fanbois into fits of fantasy. Who or what was Monty grasping back at his caravan as everyone else fought on as he got scarce?
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  328. Page number and source? and your ample backside isn't one. Had they got off there asses at 1st light instead of moving like monty well after noon there isn't a discussion MONTY GARDEN.
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  329. Mark M - i agree with alot of what you said but Bradley wasn't at the Ardennes.He got his ass stuck in Luxembourg.The bad thing was IKE moved Monty over.Which was a bad Move because Lightning Joe Collins and Earnest Harmon did the commanding and fighting that the weasel attempted to claim as his own.Monty almost got removed,did little said a lot.Forget who it was but I had read a while back someone challenged the asshole to a duel.Marshall was hardly a compromiser very gifted and insightful leader.Unfortunately since the GIs were stationed in England a lot of leeway was given the Brits,politically
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  330. Had nothing to do with politics IKE gave monty preferential treatment @ Caen/Falaise/OMG. It was obvious he was no Field Marshal.Brooke should have called up Slim or reinstated The Auk or O'Connor.Britain had good officers that knob wasn't one of them
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  331. The Auk had just won 1st El Alamein,the army group was on the up swing.Tim Collins,Dr Niall Barr and Corelli Barnett spell this out very well in Desert Generals Docu that puts a spotlight on the Monty Myth.O'Connor got caught because he was out front reconnoitering as ULTRA wasn't fully functional as this was a year and a half before the 2nd battle of El Alamein. He led one of the most brilliant military campaigns of the war. In two months, the XIII Corps/Western Desert Force had advanced over 800 miles, destroyed an entire Italian army of ten divisions, taken 133,000 prisoners, 400 tanks and 1,292 guns at the cost of 500 killed and 1,373 wounded - a remarkable military achievement. This led Adolf Hitler to send the Deutsches Afrikakorps under Erwin Rommel to try and reverse the situation .But in true Churchill form he stuck his nose in where it didn't belong After O'Connor's great victory he removed 50,000 crack/experienced troops from the desert to Greece. That proved disasterous in both places. To take the 6th Australian Division, along with part of 7th Armoured Division and most of the supplies and air support was just too much Monty caused a lot of problems in British command before ever coming in contact with the U.S.Officers. In the desert Air Marshall Conningham and Adml Cunningham strangled the German supply lines in the Mediteranean while keeping the Allies supplied was paramount. Yet the Monty didn't grab airfields or open any ports later - this continued into Italy - Normandy. I'm assuming you watched that Desert generals docu - Montgomery really should have never gotten that gig - he really could not lose after Auchilech and Dorman-Smith lined those mine fields at he ridge of Alam Halfa that helped shored up defense/blocking line by the Qattara Depression to the south which was impassable to mechanized armor at El Alamein creating a choke point.Then The Torch Landings were looming which forced Rommels hand and FDR sending 300 Shermans and 100 self propelled 105 mm Howitzers. Also factor in complete Air Superiority All these things came together at the same time and Monty couldn't help himself - taking credit that wasn't his and later deflecting blame that was - all thru the war really. Conningham & Cunningham wanted to strangle the shit as he basically ignored the Naval and Air Corps tremendous efforts while cleverly crafting his own over the top narrative. As I'm sure you know the allied supply lines were 100 miles away in Alexandria and Rommel's unfortunately for him stretched back into Libya and the port of Tripoli - 1,000 miles away. None of the above advantages were of monty's doing,it was the Allies 2 yrs of toil and he reaped the benefit Also for a while Auchinleck and Dorman-Smith were with out ULTRA as the Gerries had added another wheel to the Enigma.Throwing off Bletchley Park for a few months,becoming operational conveniently in late August '42 - just when Monty was taking command.Monty didn't go on the offensive for 9 weeks - which is precisely what Auchinleck wanted.When Winston found this out he couldn't just turn around and sack Monty - who was one lucky little Tosser
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  332. Sources were left,I'm not repeating what was laid out - pretty straight forward,that confidence was restored read Desert Generals!!! Monty was on the side of Russia/USA. Bradley was right as others pointed out Monty won with advantages that any other competent General would have won/done also.I'll take all the historians i have read words over fanboy revision. Churchill hamstrung himself by sacking The Auk,if you watched the Docu Winnie bit his lip when he found out Monty wasn't moving either.Realizing he pulled the pin too early on Auk & Smith.Later Churchill spouts drivel to cover his cock up by saying there were no victories before monty and no defeats after. Most allied officers knew damn well that wasn't accurate.Hell even Freddie his CoS said Monty had a unique ability to sense what the Germans were up to - something along those lines. The team at Bletchley Park needed a bucket when reading that. Monty made a big mess of things in Normandy faffing up Caen/Falaise/OMG - that is a fact. From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 254 In terms of the Anglo-American divide the Sicilian episode demonstrated that antagonism was not confined to American officers.Montgomery's behavior made enemies of Admiral Cunningham and Air Marshall Tedder as well as their staffs. The much vaunted rivalry between Patton and Montgomery was minor compared to the depths hostility that had developed with the Royal Air Force Tedder told Patton that Monty was "a little fellow of average ability who has had such a build up that he thinks of himself as Napoleon - he is not" That's from a PHD who teaches History at King's College and lectured at Sandhurst
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  333. Alan Brook was a fool shoving allied objectives aside for that of the crowns while using the GIs to do it.and the press made a hero of monty.Beyond his abilities or accomplishments What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. And then barely.. and poorly.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics.Monty had serious deficiencies in fluid battles, and had limited ability to adjust his methods to changing operational situations. balance,flexibility, cooperation, simplicity and the assimulation of combat lessons.He was vain,rude objectionable - a legend in his own mind
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  334. Let's review Mr Brooke shall we. Here is a great book by another good British Historian look what the supposed Highest soldier in Britain said and you may note the authors response.BTW the comments were taken from Brooke's own memoirs so I understand why he and Bernard were chums Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts read pages 162-163 About - Marshall "almost impossible to get him to grasp the true concepts of a strategic situation/understanding About - Churchill - "temperamental like a film star" and "peevish like a spoilt child" with "no long term strategic vision...he can never grasp a whole plan About - Lord Gort "brain has lately been compared to that of a glorified boy scout who just fails to see the big picture" About - Eisenhower "literally knew nothing of the requirements of a commander in action" and "had a very,very limited brain from a strategic point of view" About - Secretary Eden "was dangerous,rather obstinate featherhead-and with no strategic sense About - Gen Alexander "had many fine qualities but no very great strategic vision....it was very doubtful whether he was fit to command his Army" About - Adml MountBatten "Quite irresponsible,suffers from the most desperate illogical brain,always producing Red Hearings" There is a pattern emerging - evidently no one on the allied side but Brooke had any grasp of strategy. Just because these accomplished men disagreed with Brooke it didn't follow they were all dunderheads. His diaries are post war fiction,it was he who had not fully grasped tactics and strategy at important stages of the war making process It is clear from his diaries of his subsequent attempt to rewrite history - Andrew Roberts For a guy that got kicked off of the continent he comes across as a rather arrogant,condescending tosser .All hat and no cattle as they say in Texas
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  335. Listen up bub,I provided direct quotes from men who make a living as Historians.And you present your opinions. Britain had good men but Mick and Keith have more cred than these two yapping jackels when all they do is take swipes at allies - in real time
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  336. IKE wasn't out of touch he knew Bernard was no Field Marshall and he let Monty prove it - which he of course did. Monty was probably playing with lucian would you like a link for that? IKE allowed the crown to tag along for one last time just so they could remember what ist felt like
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  337. had 4 yrs to cross a channel after getting run into it 30 measily miles and that was too foreboding for your fauntleroys,real smart of them know we know why you yammer away - Empire,ya sure go tell that to the Poles and the Czechs you left in the lurch
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  338. Monty failed everywhere his bullshit plan to save his reputation.Even Alan brooke said it and Ramsey and Tedder and Bedell-Smith.That's why the Russians acknowledged IKE and not the berk he was along for the ride and nothing more.He lost a lot. What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials, and air support. And then barely.. and poorly.Rommel/Bayerlein noted this also. For instance the Caen offensives that took place in between were an embarrassing and deadly blunder by an incompetent commander - and his poorly-trained, unmotivated troops. Who also suffered the misfortune of being supplied with British arms. Like another poster noticed - But you've got to love the spin: "I was failing miserably over here so that the Americans can win". Sure he was.
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  339. your army was too small,poorly lead,ill equipped & ineffective - kind of like you in a comment sections. Read The Full Monty by Hamilton. I think John Burns is mentioned in it,was Monty a little rough with you in the tub?Was he blowing bubbles when he held your head under?
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  340. this one's barking,You're funny Burns, a dim bulb but funny .The comment sections need a bucket when reading your posts.Did the nurses confiscate your Nudie Magazines again Johnny?Answer that one,maybe Monty took them up to Arnhem with him.Oh that's right he never showed up there
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  341. Sounds like a Monty fan who neither showed up on day one, or day two, or day three etc..Speaking of day 3 that's when XXXCorp tanks finally made the Bridge @ Nijmegem.Both the Germans & GIs chronicled this in journals,dispatches and after battle accounts
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  342. Shut your lying hole even his Boss Alan Brooke and SHAEF blamed him.Get a life you poor trampled leaf
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  343. Cornhole monty wanted to back away sort of like you and Burpsy when your sock account was busted.Monty tried backing out and Collins and Harmon went on the offensive.Said he had to lather little lucian - is that you? More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  344. Yes I have mentioned that it was 70 miles,with modern measuring - GPS - laser. So monty had 6 more miles and still faffed the whole thing
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  345. You girls and your knitting circles,shame for 1,500 miles with every advantage provided Monty let Rommel get away.I'm reading Winston's War hard to believe monty was worse in Italy than Sicily where he got spanked and schooled like you here
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  346. The French/Dutch/Belgians and Gerries saw a lot of the Burns Family behinds during the great skedaddle. Revolting I'm sure you'd agree
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  347. Clausewitz warned against marching through a valley without having taken the hills. Market Garden was the equivalent of doing just that.Having only one road to advance upon should have been warning enough not to undertake the operation. -The idea of Monty in charge of an operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable dread and the Krauts with incredible joy. Bernard was in reality a plodding, unimaginative,spotlight grabbing little shit "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:p.525 Alan Brooke wrote about Monty in his diary "He requires a lot of educating to make him see the whole situation and the war as a whole outside of the 8th Army orbit. A difficult mixture to handle a commander in action and trainer of men,but liable to commit untold errors,due to lack of tact, lack of appreciation of other people's outlook. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.262-63 Brigadier E.T. Williams, Montgomery's Intelligence Chief cautioned the Field Marshall that the Allies "enemy appreciation was very weak" and that no proper study of the ground around Arnhem had been made . A radio decrypt also revealed the enemy expected a XXX Corp thrust toward Nijmegen. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.270 one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in the area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches *Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este*​ from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp, the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. we might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02 General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Sir Francis De Guingand, From Brass Hat to Bowler Hat, p. 16. - Unfortunately I cannot say that I did support Operation MARKET-GARDEN Montgomery's supposed master stroke; but as I was in the hospital in Aldershot I was powerless to dissuade him. I attempted to, on the telephone; for there were too many ifs in the plan and Prince Bernard was warning, from his intelligence network in Bolland, that German armoured units were stationed there. However, to my telephone warnings Montgomery merely replied, 'You are too far away Freddie, and don't know what's going on' Liddell-Hart, History Second World War, p. 594 Liddell-Hart, although understanding Montgomery's reasoning, believed that the last true hope to end the war in 1944 dissolved with the halting of Patton's tanks on 23 August 1944.
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  348.  @TheGixernutter  Yes and 1st Para got hung out to dry also.This operation was condemned at it's inception. Most officers British and GI were for opening the deep water port of Antwerp - which made perfect sense. In the highly unlikely hood anyone made it over the Arnhem bridge - THEN WHAT? They get blasted or taken prisoner. The Rhine,Reich and the Ruhr are right there with supplies coming in by rail from near by. And where were the Allies going to get supplied if this fool's errand got lucky - OOPS.That's right 499 miles away at the port of Cherbourg. So reality,logistics and battlefield tactics are a thing
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  349.  @TheGixernutter  Monty and IKE own it Monty for hatching it and IKE for giving him the green light
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  350.  @nickdanger3802  exactly beevor is peer reviewed,critically acclaimed and doesn't suscribe to the Cornhole Chronicles or this revisionist rag
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  351. The whole plan was assinine,SHAEF knew the deep water port of Antwerp would have been to open to keep the operation supplied.5 tanks made it to The Nijmegan,even if more showed up they would have been blasted with the Reich and Ruhr right there.Cornhole reads Monty coloring books,the nearest port of supply was Cherbourg 499 miles away,but to johnny boy that's brilliance From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" Let's see. 1)Arnhem because of a crap plan by an amatuer wasn't captured. 2)The rocket sites weren't touched and still operating 3) In the nine days of Market Garden combined losses-airborne and ground forces killed, wounded and missing amounted to more than 17.000. 4)The deep water Port of Antwerp was still closed and needed for massive supplies 5)The Nazi reprisals included the Dutch Honger Winter that starved/froze at least 21,000 of its citizens to death. 6)Monty wasn't there to direct while Student and Model were in fact conducting a clinic on speed and placement of everything available
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  352. This was previously from Achilles Smith and well presented Just a few points, have you read or referenced the 82nd AB Division Field Order No.11 of 13 September 1944, it explains a lot of detail but it may be complicated for those whom haven't served in an military environment; it explains the mission, the regimental task, tactical study of the terrain, enemy situation in operational area, it has lots of nice grid references and etc. It shows why the Grosebeek Heights was taken; it's key terrain (that's an area you deny to the enemy) and the intelligence estimate provided a fairly accurate assessment of German forces; none of this "1000 tanks" business. TIK have you read or referenced 1st British AB Corps Operational Instruction No.1 and its mission designated by the Airborne Forces Ground Commander of Operation Market to the 82nd AB Division, it illustrates context. -Gavin's book 'Airborne Warfare' provides a good account of the operation, here's a nice quote: “At a conference at the headquarters of the British Airborne Corps on September 16 (D1) General Browning directed the CG (Commanding General) of the 82d ‘not to attempt the seizure of the Nijmegen Bridge until all other missions had been successfully accomplished and the Groesbeek, - Bergendahl high ground was firmly in our hands’This expression of the Corps commander’s evaluation of the separate portions of the mission given the 82d Airborne Division was most helpful since the Divison was to be so widespread”. The book also provides more insight into the rationale behind the planning phase -There is a follow up quote from Browning: “I personally gave an order to Jim Gavin that, although every effort should be made to effect the capture of the Grave and Nijmegen Bridges as soon as possible, it was essential that he should capture the Groesbeek Ridge and hold it—for … painfully obvious reasons …. If this ground had been lost to the enemy the operations of the 2nd Army would have been dangerously prejudiced as its advance across the Waal and Neder Rhein would have been immediately outflanked. Even the initial advance of the Guards Armoured Division would have been prejudiced and on them the final outcome of the battle had to depend”, this is from the US official history book; The Siegfried Line. --From the Captain Westover Letter of July 1945, quote: “For the objective of the 82d Airborne Division, I advise you to check the Operations Order of the British Airborne Corps. I (Gavin) quote the 82d's mission:‘The 82d Airborne Division will seize and hold the bridges at Nijmegen and Grave (with sufficient bridgeheads to pass formations of the Second Army through). The capture and retention of the high ground between Nijmegen and Grosbeek is imperative in order to accomplish the division's task’. This mission, of course, was discussed at great length with the British Airborne Corps Commander. About two weeks prior to receipt of the mission by the 82d Airborne Division, it had been planned that General Urquhart's British Airborne Div's would do the job. They had, therefore, devoted considerable study to intelligence reports and to the terrain. The Nijmegen-Grosbeek high ground was the only high ground in all of the Netherlands. With it in German hands, physical possession of the bridges would be absolutely worthless, since it completely dominated the bridges and all the terrain around it. The understanding was therefore reached with British Corps Headquarters that it would be absolutely imperative that this high ground be seized." -The "1000 tanks" nonsense is easily dismissed by the Situation of Enemy Forces in Field Order No.11, and the single line from the after action report of the 2Bn/505 is conjuncture, based on rumour and carried out only by one reconnaissance patrol. From the Beevor video, you display confusion and uncertainty over issue but you have displayed this as though Gavin himself was predominated over this rumour. -Also you side with Poulussen over the Lindquist misunderstanding and came to your own conclusions, that it's a "cover-up" in your words. Except the Lindquist pre-drop instructions is corroborated by Captain Chester Graham of the 508th; "Prior to the Holland jump I sat in a high-level briefing at division headquarters. Colonel Lindquist was told by General Gavin to move to the Nijmegen Bridge as soon as Lindquist thought practical after the jump. Gavin stressed that speed was important. He was also told to stay out of the city and to avoid city streets. He told Lindquist to use the west farm area to get to the bridge as quickly as possible as the bridge was the key to the division’s contribution to the success of the operation". Indeed, it was in Field Order No.11 of September 1944 that the 508th was to "Seize, organise and hold key terrain features in area of responsibility and be prepared to seize WAAL River crossing at Nijmegen on instruction of Div Comdr". The interpretation was flawed with hindsight and the "evidence" was the books from Poulusson and Neillands, which is featured at the start of the Beevor video.I agree Seth 1422 dragged both of these not historians over the coals.Neither were historians and Poulussen couldn't identify an M-1.Pretty damning when you can't recognize one of the most widely dispersed weapons in one of the war's bigger battles Read Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality, he spells it all out and is the Official historian of the Air Historical for the Royal Air Force, with responsibility for writing documented narratives on RAF operational activity. He has a PhD from King's College in London William Buckingham,(Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944)with a PhD explains the massive Air effort that Monty barely recognized or considered because he wasn't really a army commander much less a Field Marshall. Like Model for instance who could adapt and change as the circumstances unfolded and changed
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  353. They didn't Browning told Forest Pogue right after the war how not only Carrington stopped but the Germans saw it to Thicko I left that quote at least 70X in 4 yrs .If I give it to you again will you quit post ing?Please say yes. Monty attacked the Germans on May 10th,by May 26 his back was to the Channel screaming for the boats,While gen.Lumsden gave a good account of himself overseeing the orderly retreat from the route Monty got them in.By May 30th or so everyone that was going back had been picked up.Of course bernard left behind some of the gallant Poles,French and Dutch soldiers who covered his retreat
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  354. it was his last chance at the big boy table. Monty only won in the desert with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. And then barely.... and poorly. After that bernard was schooled by Patton in Sicily,dithered in Italy and recalled before embarrassing himself any further under the guise of planning for Normandy - where he then got stuck for 43 days at CAEN. Then at Falaise fumbled away the German escape and of course not showing up for MONTY GARDEN
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  355.  @johnburns4017  Johnny those are called facts and you are getting pounded.If you're feeling dizzy it's because the tables have been turned.Stick to Pints and horseshoes or darts,history realy isn't your thing
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  356.  @nickdanger3802  yes he knew the score that Monty was indeed a cad.Not only Him but ULTRA and the Dutch resistence were also ignored.Monty later admitted he knew about the Panzers.But since the gears were already set in motion,they didn't want to turn back.Lot of good paras paid the price for Monty and IKE's foolishness
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  357.  @owenjones7517  again there is no evidence show an official stationary ,what intelligence report?When?By whom?ULTRA said they were refitting but never in those fabricated numbers- that was loose talk bantered about.But if you looked at the Reich wald it would make perfect sense there would be armour in there as they were later in the Hurtgen and the Ardennes.It's the only chance the Gerries had was to camoflauge their tanks from allied air support
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  358. The pupose of Monty Garden was to give Bernard one more chance at the Big Boy table - that he obviously faffed - again. So i see why you like him
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  359. Serious do you have a head wound? Go back and look up that disaster up how many times do we need to discuss it.He got 1,100 Tommies/GIs killed - IN ONE DAY
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  360. No it wasn't the GIs crossed days earlier 70 miles to the south with less than a 100 casualties. Simply a fact Monty made a pompous parade out of it drawing attention to himself and good men died. Had it been your grandfathers you'd not be posting
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  361. I'm answering a troll,not you - you've done the same but don't repeat a debate already sorted just yesterday. I explained the difference between 8,300 miles from mainland USA and the other 30 from GB correct. And 5 months and 2 months - correct? there were 16,000 GIs and 75,000 phillipinos and 198,000 Tommies + 140000 French,Dutch,Belgian and Poles
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  362. well you started it putting TRUTH in your name 🤣
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  363.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  I realize that specially when new troops and old weapons provided met totalitarian troops who had been fattening their experience,sharpening their skills and perfecting their weapons for 5-10 prior there were bound to be setbacks. But lets just agree john peate who started this thread is a shameless monty fanbois bent on lies and distortions to prop up his bent narrative,Sad when one makes up multiple accounts to agree with himself - on an anonymous message board
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  364.  @zen4men  when you show respect for those who came across the pond. Instead of barking out the nonsense of If Monty had had control of Market Garden tells me you are an unread on history. Monty was given EVERYTHING THEY COULD. Stopping 3 US Armies to feed,fuel,fortify the uppity little nothing .He didn't seize Caen (day one objective) for over a month. Didn't close Failaise pocket. Didn't capture Rommel's army at El Alemian and took high losses just to win by default, Didn't trap Afika Corp in Tunisia, couldn't capture any vital channel ports, Didn't open Antwerp's approaches when it was wide open, Didn't even make it to the half way point in MarketGarden (Arnhem was only end of first half), Didn't get past Nijmegen for over 6 months.... I could go on and on.That got 17000 casualties in 9 days. He didn't even show up for his own operation. The Lorraine Campain you speak of had 34,000 casualties but that was 3 months do the math. IKE bent over many times to help him Monty was not a good commander.He made a name on the build up of others and in fact had been caught in distortions many times so save your good manners when you are not accurate in his so called accomplishments
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  365.  @zen4men  why would you want me to run off the roof? And that would be just rude and that would upset you
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  366.  @zen4men  well i didn't ask for a Bio but thanx for sharing
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  367. Above my state of awareness? Of what? I don't transpose religion or philosophy or your translations there of into discussion on military matters. Many masters and all that. How about I've had a few thoughts about drinking, and one just entered my head, if a man can't drink while he's living, how can he drink when he's dead?
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  368. But beer can go bad
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  369.  @zen4men  If you have not tasted Great Lakes Brewing Oktoberfest = a marzen it is you my friend that has not either.So evidently we both still have some living to do
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  370.  @seth1422  because I believe they sensed disaster.And after the battle Monty ignored meetings with SHAEF because he knew Bedel-Smith,Ramsey,Tedder would have all tore him a new one.Even Monty's staff said they'd never seen the master so quite.He scewed the pooch and he knew it!
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  371. Old Monty at least Japanese Commanders had the common decency to disembowel themselves after a disaster like this.The little villa has his head so far up monty's ass he can tell us what he had for lunch .The RAF didn't want to drop too close to the bridges because of AA guns. You monkeys in a mango tree swinging from limb to limb slinging feces.Hoping there are some thicko's out there as bent as you From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticized Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies From Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel. Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed From With Prejudice,by Marshal of the Royal Air Force,Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Cassel & Co., 1st edition, copyright 1966,Page 599 " Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal."
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  372. Shut your lying hole even his Boss Alan Brooke and SHAEF blamed him.Get a life you poor trampled leaf .Do you sniff from the same tube of glue as cornhole? Monty was all hat and no cattle as they say in Texas.SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians
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  373. Um no monty wanted to fall back and was going to get sacked for lying to the Press.Then he wrote an apology to IKE,Even the the American MPs threw him into the cage as an imposter at one of the Check Points :face-blue-smiling:. Ike got a good laugh out of that - it was covered by Mark Felton
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  374. your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones.Your favorite bent freak Monty screwed over Sosabowski & the Poles. The Brits knew it, Canadians knew it,GIs knew it,Dutch knew it,Poles knew it.Even the other 4 aliases on your account know it Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 now quit trolling and ring the nurses station your pants are filled again
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  375. He's peer reviewed professional Historian who sheds light on your revisionist carnival barking .And he released his books in the UK long before the US,but hacks like you never let the truth get in the way
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  376. -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success Market Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Monty is handed command .SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians. Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly. Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved .And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have been. Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics The Germans and Americans both logged XXX Corp stopped on 20 September at 1700 hrs(9PM)-That's 3 days and it is a fact Viktor Graebners 9th SS stopped the Paras on the 1st morning - they had Haalf Tracks with mounted Anti-Aircraft guns that shredded some GIs.And APCs with mounted mg42s and some AT guns 75 mms. The 82nd had the most objectives over the largest area. they had the City, the Bridges,and LZ/DZ on the heights. Ist off it was Monty's terrible plan ,then XXX Corp took their time after successful Panzer Faust attacks took out 9 tanks after just 3 miles,stopping the whole column - that made 7 miles NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come?How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT do the same ?Not in September, not in October and not in November. Probably because unlike Monty ,Model was an actual Field Marshall
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  377. Outside of your posts being full of shit they were pretty good.And Ryan interviewed perhaps more German and Allied Officers than anybody not at Nuremburg. Monty lied incessantly and belittled damn near everyone he came across - stop acting offended and was given that title to assuage his bruised ego,He faffed everthing from Caen,Falaise,Market Garden A PHD at King's College who lectured at Sandhurst From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem A Pulitzer Prize Winner From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding a bad mistake on my part Not only did Brooke,Tedder and Ramsay all point right at Monty,only later did he admit it.Hastings,Hart,Beevor,Bennet,Barnet,Barr,Kershaw,Keegan also back that up From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend."With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions".General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted Again, None of the objectives were met -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success -From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced -From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. -From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured.LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright, we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair he more laissez-faire attitude of the chain of command prevailed .Another precious 24 hrs were allowed to slip by while 1st Airborne Division continued to fight for its life​.
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  378. Dave M A C erroneously reported: 7 - The 82nd Airborne did NOT have the most objectives over a larger area to secure. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.310-311 101st AB Division Objectives -Eindoven -Son Bridge -St Oedenrode Bridge -Veghel Road and Rail Bridges -Wooded Areas 1st AB Division Objectives -Arnhem -Arnhem Road Bridge -Pontoon Bridge -Railway Bridge -Wooded Areas 82nd AB Division Objectives -Nijmegen -Hueman Bridge -Malden Bridge -Hatert Bridge -Honinghutie Road & Rail Bridge -Grave Bridge -Nijmegen Road and Rail Bridges -Groesbeek Heights DZs/LZs
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  379. Dave M A C wrote:The American performance at Nijmegen on the first day was disappointing (I’ve chosen to use a lover’s word rather than a troll’s) to say the least. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Oh really Guards armored got a whole 7 miles the 1st day.And by midday on the 18th they had only got 2 more miles.And 9 tanks were taken out by PanzerfaustTeams at the 3 mile mark the 1st day.But I won't place that obvious disappointment at their feet - it was Monty's pathetic misadventure. Shouldn't be surprised the heaviest bombing campaign of Normandy at Caen saw 7700 tons of ordinance was dropped. After one heavy bombing Monty waited 6 hrs before he went on the offensive, by that time the Germans regained their old positions
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  380.  @BaronsHistoryTimes Yes and that is putting it mildly IKE and Monty should have been reassigned it was so daft.After OMG IKE started giving Monty direct orders instead of suggestions I'll refrain from the river crossing because Monty actually had called a press conference and invited Churchill like it was a social event instead of a military operation.When 3 US Armies already crossed down river with no fanfare
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  381. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan. Model being an actual Field Marshall conducted a clinic in modern mechanical warfare.I would say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all
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  382. The goal of Monty Garden was to give Bernard a headline. What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. Then barely.......and poorly.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics.Monty had serious deficiencies in fluid battles, and had limited ability to adjust his methods to changing operational situations.
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  383.  @trickylifts  is that all you've got? 😁,War and Peace may have been shorter.The bottom line was there were 50 miles of cock ups well below Nijmegen.This is monty's baby - he didn't even show up like a real Field Marshal Walter Model. This pathetic plan should not even been considered let alone implemented.Way too many things could go wrong and did. Like the Germans actually fighting.Monty really was a moron,Britain had good officers,he wasn't one of them Dutch Army Advisors even told the so called bain trust to flank west & north and onto flatter terrain that could support armor.Once the road became blocked as it did with distressing frequency the plan was shall we say KAPUT Ryan talked to more participants than anyone out side of nurenburg. He talked to Gavin and many other.Of course Monty's memoirs are a stroll thru the land of make believe
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  384. Churchill was the only bigger boob than Monty having hamstrung both O'Connor then Auchileck.Monty couldn't lose in N. Africa,but it didn't stop him from trying
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  385. From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the*Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp. From With Prejudice, Air Marshall Tedder,p.586 Eisenhower's firm commitment to the Anglo-American Alliance dominated his thinking. He handled Allied disagreements in Normandy, at the Falaise Gap and for Market-Garden the same way. Eisenhower was determined to protect the facade of Allied unity at the highest levels of the Allied command in spite of Montgomery's insubordination which was motivated by both personal and political objectives. Eisenhower's efforts to cover up Montgomery's lies in Normandy drew praise from his British second in command, Lord Tedder "One of the most disturbing features of the campaign ... had been the uninhibited boosting at home (England) of the British Army at the expense of the Americans. I ... fear that this process was sowing the seeds of a grave split between the Allies. For the moment, the Americans were being extremely reticent and generous, largely on account of Eisenhower's fine attitude."
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  386. *https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml * At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. Proof this is a bad plan... the first obstacle each force in this plan had was the very plan itself. XXX Corps stuck going up one road, asking for ambush and serious delays (both occurred) Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road
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  387. Center of Military History,The United States Army,The Sigrfied Line CampaignPage174 Spearheading the 30 Corps ground column reconnaissance troops of the Guards Armoured Division linked with Colonel Tucker's 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 the morning of D plus 2, 19 September. (See Map IV) Major formations of the British armor were not far behind. From that point priority of objectives within the sector of the 82d Airborne Division shifted unquestionably in the direction of the bridge at Nijmegen. Already at least thirty-three hours behind schedule because of earlier delays south of Eindhoven and at Zon the ground column had to have a way to get across the Waal. Pages 184-185 First Attempts To Drive on ArnhemCounting from the time of first contact between the British ground column and the 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 on D plus 2, 19 September, until the Nijmegen bridge was taken at 1910 on D plus 3, 20 September, a case could be made to show that the ground column was delayed at Nijmegen for almost thirty-five hours Yet this would be to ignore the facts that first arrivals of the ground column represented no more than a forward reconnaissance screen and that several hours elapsed before sizable British units began to arrive. Indeed almost another twenty-four hours would elapse after capture of the Nijmegen bridge before the British would renew the drive on Arnhem
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  388. https://www.historynet.com/eisenhower-fire-1944-45.htm Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them. Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance. Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through them and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe.
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  389. Burns you really should go to a library - once your ankle monitor gets removed and the restraining order is rescinded.ENJOY From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.616 July 17,1944 The RAF had dropped a concentration of 7000 tons of bombs to help the ground troops break through the German defense ring.Around evening Air Marshall Tedder had called IKE and and mentioned Monty had stopped his armor from going any farther.IKE was mad as Monty was drawing up his "administrative tail".The Americans got Saint-Lo,taken in fighting from hedgerow to hedgerow and settled in the streets From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.617 July 19,1944Monty had a press conference yesterday at which he said that at least 156,000 Germans had been killed or wounded since D-Day. Yet in the big push east & south of Caen only 2,500 prisoners were taken IKE said yesterday that with 7000 tons of bombs dropped(around Caen) in the most elaborate bombing of enemy front line positions ever accomplished,only 7 miles were gained can we afford 1000 tons of bombs per mile? The air people are completely disgusted with the lack of progress From My Three Years with EisenHower,By Harry C.Butcher,p.632 - august 4,1944 "At the SHAEF forward War Room last evening,I learned that the Allies had captured some 78,000 Germans,of which the British captured 14,000.The remainder falling into American hands.This information was reported on August 1st.Since which we have captured 4,000 a day" My Three Years with Eisenhower," by Captain Harry C. Butcher,p. 651 On August 21, 1944, Butcher wrote about the British reaction to the news that an American general, Omar Bradley, was now equal to their own General Montgomery within the Allied command. "I find that British pride, which seems to have been hurt by the relative slowness of advance of the British-Canadian front, as compared to the more newsworthy break-through of the Americans at St. Lo and subsequent end runs, has been hurt even more by the misunderstanding as to Montgomery's command. Some of the London papers have reflected this feeling. Ike has a first class problem on his hands."
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  390. BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p414-19 Almost every feature of Operation Market Garden,in fact simply reaffirmed what already had become evident in North Africa that Montgomery was generally incapable of conducting anything but solid defenses or attacks with generous lead times,massive materiel superiority and no urgent dead lines. Market Garden had revealed Montgomery' serious lapses in planning as well as severe shortcomings in operational and tactical command.There was little cooperation between the various staffs responsible. Also lacking was any liaison between the Airborne Army and and those units responsible for ground troops and tactical air power. Montgomery's operation timetable was ambitious to the point of recklessness. Montgomery the man whose main criticism of Eisenhower was his lack of grip,remained remarkably out of touch with day to day operations and incapable of controlling events.He only got as far as Nijmegen and even then never got across the Waal.At no stage during the battle did he visit XXX Corp HQ and not until 23 September when it was almost over did he visit Dempsey at Second Army HQ.According to Freddie DeGuingand,CoS, Montgomery appeared to let things go their own way How could anyone suppose that Montgomery and his army would suddenly change his spots and become the sort of force capable of conducting a fast,concentrated,mobile thrust into the heart of Germany. The Army Monty claimed he could lead to Berlin was created by him in his own ponderous and ever cautious image
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  391.  @ToolTimeTabor  The British had many good officers - bernard wasn't amongst them.I literally have caught Boy Burnie as have others altering texts that he then presents and claims this confirms his bent POV.He was also caught by many others changing account names to agree with himself. You can have up to 5 usernames on one G-mail account and the chortling Ogre impliments this practice with distressing frequency - sure sign of mental illness
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  392. Irving Burns it never stopped you like up thread - did monty share the loofah with you?
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  393. Then Monty should have stepped aside and it would have
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  394. From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p,489​-490 The scapegoating of Sosabowski and his men was a spiteful,unwarranted and unforgivable slur on a competant,conscientious commander whose only crime was to refuse to play Whitehall politics to Brownings satisfaction, and upon the courageous men whose only failing was an inability to walk on water -The primary reason MARKET GARDEN didn't meet it's stated aim was the Failure of XXX Corps to reach Arnhem on schedule or indeed at all.To a degree this is due to events out of the forces control, specifically the Germans destruction of the bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal at Son on 17 September and their stuborn defense of the South End of the Nijmegen Road bridge -The Guards Armored Division did not start off until 14:35 on Sunday 17 September,after the Market force had been delivered and therefore squandered 8 hrs of of precious daylight and they had banned movement during the hours of Darkness.This despite the fact they were suppose to cover the 15 miles or so to the 101st at Eindhoven by nightfall on the 17th which ocurred around 1900(7 PM).The GA did not reach Eindhoven until18:30 on 18 September despite minimal German opposition.Already behind schedule that was to see them 40 miles further to Nijmegen or onto the approach to Arnhem - and the additional time needed to erect a bailey bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal extended the schedule deficit to 36 hrs. -The same lack of urgency was on display when the Grenadier Guards on the evening of 20 September with the North end of the Nijmegen Bridge still in British hands and the 10 miles virtually undefended(to Arnhem).The repeated failure of the Guards Armored Division to press on after crossing the River Waal marks the point where the operation failed -North end of the Nijmegen Bridge still in British hands and the 10 miles virtually undefended(to Arnhem).The repeated failure of the Guards Armored Division to press on after crossing the River Waal marks the point where the operation failed -Illness could explain Horrocks contradictions in his Garden orders and intentions.Responsibility does not lie soley with him but with his superiors​ but with the petronage the British Army used to allot Senior command positions
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  395. From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p,43-44 the Fact that both US Airborne formations were misused as conventional infantry under British command for a cosiderable amount period after the Failure of MARKET suggests that the concern for US casualties did not figure highly in Montgomery's or Brownings calculations. Large scale night landings proved not to be a success and september 17 put Market into a no moon period.Large scale airborne landings were simply not viable in moonless conditions.Both parachutists and glider pilots required a degree of natural illumination in order to judge height ,orientation and degree of descent to avoid landing accidents, with lost/damaged equipment,injuries and probable fatalities that tended to run counter to those aims Browning who handed over to Brerton that all 17 Bridges had to be sized with thunderclap surprise.And stressed that time constraints meant any arrangements at this stage had to be binding,before imposing a series of conditions and constraints *From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p46 * the shortage of navigators was so acute that only 4 out of 10 C-47 crews used on the D-Day drop included one,usually flying at the head of the serial.The situation didn't improve by September 1944. the key issue was lack of natural illumination,the 1st airlifts into Normandy involved 900 C-47s and gliders .MARKET envisioned doing the same with around 1,600 flights,with inexperienced and partially trained air crews in the total darkness of a no moon period would have been suicidal.(Williams insistence on a single lift per day and Brereton's acceptance of it may have been less than ideal,but it was the only realistic option in the prevailing circumstances. (Because of a shortage of navigators on longer flights with much shorter days) From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p111 This plan got blasted 3 miles in when Panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans and continued to collapse on it's self going forward. Viktor Graebner of 9th SS Panzer had 30 armored halftracks,10 - 8 wheeled armored cars and a number of trucks
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  396. I'd say Monty appeared lost,the sad fact is he never appeared at all.And yes vile those men of academia know and did more than your family tree - the one you obviously fell out of
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  397. Monty shyt the bed the berk ignoring the Massive port put everything back. IKE did screw up Devers and did give favortism to bernard for the British putting the GIs up for a spell
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  398. Clausewitz warned against marching through a valley without having taken the hills. Market Garden was the equivalent of doing just that.Having only one road to advance upon should have been warning enough not to undertake the operation. -The idea of Monty in charge of an operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable dread and the Krauts with incredible joy. Bernard was in reality a plodding, unimaginative,spotlight grabbing little shit "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:p.525 Alan Brooke wrote about Monty in his diary "He requires a lot of educating to make him see the whole situation and the war as a whole outside of the 8th Army orbit. A difficult mixture to handle a commander in action and trainer of men,but liable to commit untold errors,due to lack of tact, lack of appreciation of other people's outlook. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.262-63 Brigadier E.T. Williams, Montgomery's Intelligence Chief cautioned the Field Marshall that the Allies "enemy appreciation was very weak" and that no proper study of the ground around Arnhem had been made . A radio decrypt also revealed the enemy expected a XXX Corp thrust toward Nijmegen. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.270 one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in the area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches *Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este*​ from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp, the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. we might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02 General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Sir Francis De Guingand, From Brass Hat to Bowler Hat, p. 16. - Unfortunately I cannot say that I did support Operation MARKET-GARDEN Montgomery's supposed master stroke; but as I was in the hospital in Aldershot I was powerless to dissuade him. I attempted to, on the telephone; for there were too many ifs in the plan and Prince Bernard was warning, from his intelligence network in Bolland, that German armoured units were stationed there. However, to my telephone warnings Montgomery merely replied, 'You are too far away Freddie, and don't know what's going on' Liddell-Hart, History Second World War, p. 594 Liddell-Hart, although understanding Montgomery's reasoning, believed that the last true hope to end the war in 1944 dissolved with the halting of Patton's tanks on 23 August 1944.
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  399. They knew the risks going in the flights were just under 400 miles - ONE WAY.Where D-Day was right across the channel in warmer weather and longer days. British Planners brought this up when it was Operation Comet
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  400.  @costaricanaturephotography3027  you disagree correctly because this board is a cheering section not meant for real discourse
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  401. no sources again - he was getting his picture painted and playing withbunnies,canaries and puppies - along with Lucien Trueb and little villa. Sad really you slappies refer to this freak who was dunkirked as a field marshall
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  402. Sorry your Brnard wanting to run away to the med on walk abouts were just pissing off the Russians/French/Poles/Czechs/Dutch/GIs The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror. And the Krauts with incredible Joy
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  403. Again blisterhead quit squirming and answer Mr Lucas question Provide the evidence that prove with 100% accuracy the following: 1) only 19 Germans were guarding the Bridge. (Two of TIK sources both Poulussen and Kershaw state that 750 guarding the bridge and were deployed at both ends) 2) How Warren would have cross the Bridges and capture the northern end with Germans deployed at the northern end back by 88mm and 20mm guns. (Remember Frost failed to cross the bridge at Arnhem) 3) How do you know there were pretty well little German opposition between the two bridge. ( Assault gun and Troops at Elst, Germans were holding the southern end of Arnhem bridge in force. Need to remember if the 82nd had captured the bridge, all the reinforcement that arrived in Nijmegen from the evening of 17th to 19th would have been deployed on the island. Also XXX Corp failed to cross the island on the 21st) Unless you can provide hard evidence I afraid its Game set and Match Market Garden fails no bridgehead is establish.
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  404. Extra point question johnny,What continent did GeneralsGort,Brooke and Montgomery turn their backs on and skedaddle in the other direction .The same continent the 82nd Airborne never retreated from.Take your time I know it's a tough one.And pick your plastic soldiers up off the steps - mum will be home soon
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  405. Beevor's Arnhem is the single most exhaustive and best description and sourced of Operation Market Garden written.Kershaws "It Never Snows in September" covers the German perspective,both basically agree it is the fault of the so called Field Marshall Montgomery failed foreray.Unlike the revision of this host and th rags he quotes. It is written with the benefits of an exhaustive research of the British, American, Dutch and German records, the book provides amazing detail to "The Bridge Too Far" in Arnhem, Nethlerlands. The whole plan suffered from the plain fact that it relied on a single road of attack by the British XXX Corps where going off the road was a near impossibility due to the wet, boggy polders, obvious to anyone who has spent any time in The Netherlands (they rarely use fences in pastures as a dug ditch will quickly fill with water creating a natural barrier). The failure to listen to Dutch military personnel about the geographical defeat of the plan was just another in a string of Montgomery ego led disasters. The utter evil -- absolutely barbaric and shocking to the conscious -- actions of the Nazi SS, the German commanders in The Netherlands, the Dutch SS and the average German soldier are properly detailed and the Dutch people would rightly demand a fuller accounting of the barbarous actions during those months. The author thoroughly explores the lack of planning by Montgomery and Browning, the willful self delusion of Montgomery borne from an ego that held little regard for the futility and needless death of British and American troops. Reluctantly and very mistakenly Eisenhower put American Divisions under the command of the British General Montgomery in what turned out to be the greatest loss of any American Airborne Division -- before or since. Montgomery should be a national disgrace to the British, that is clear. Eisenhower began acting as a politician in deferring to Monty's superhuman ego, and abdicated his role as general commanding in a war. The greatest suffering was then endured by the Dutch people. Epic in its tragedy. A lesson in failed leadership by the British and American commanding generals. A shock and outrage to the conscious in the inhumanity and pure evil of the German army. A story that needs to be retold -- and very well done.
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  406. I stated facts princess,I've left plenty of posts by historians in over 3 years
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  407. He's is vetted and peer reviewed as opposed to distortions presented by carnival barkers such as yourself - and Antony Beevor never had to recant or remove his material under the auspices of libel
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  408. Ya like blasting your illusions of integrity,Monty's fault,obviously tell you delusions to the French/Dutch/Belgians
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  409.  @gordonsmith4884  that's not the worst they've been called. In a just world a good many of them would have been lined up and shot.Along with some of the creeps in the defense industry who annually withdraw Billions from the once robust National Treasurey. I hope a meeting between them and the Grim Reaper can be arranged
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  410.  @dallasmars2  Ya know they say the opposite on this board knowing history can't possibly save their hero so they try revision
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  411. Monty was a prolific braggart and a ponderous foot dragger. He failed to break out of the Normandy beachhead & Caen after stating it was D-Day + 1 objective. The only way Monty was the tying down of German divisions was by the Germans shooting holes through his troops and depleting German ammunition and hurt the Germans fists with his face. The evidence was Monty again ran advantages into the sand with his unimaginative schemes,a gross underestimation of the enemy and a serious misjudgment of the terrain and unwillingness to show up and direct like an actual Field Marshall - Walter Model. Biggest Air Drop up until that point and the pathetic pratt couldn't be bothered? Not soldiers fault the mongrel Monty hid away while everyone else fought.Even Carrington,oh excuse me "Lord" Carrington tried it for a minute or two. I would say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all
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  412.  @mikekenney8362  Certainly CW 😎 there is a good segment on YT with Maj. Tony Hibbert who brought up the injustice done to them.Monty thru evryone under the bus even IKE who stopped Bradley,Patton,Devers Armies to accomodate the crank. Hodges couldn't be stopped because 1st army was actively engaged in Achen
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  413.  @mikekenney8362  truth but i know a gaggle of squawking twats that can't bring themselves to admit it oblivious of the evidence to the contrary
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  414. That's a great point then he'd have to take the whole board down if he was honest and he's getting too many clicks to do that
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  415. There is no argument there he pushed for and got his wish the didn't come forth to direct as the armored column came to a halt 3 miles from the start .Many don't realize after the Sicily/Italy/Normandy campaigns his star had faded it was quite evident he wasn't the end all-be all he pushed the Press and the citizens to believe.Britain had much better soldiers but he never stopped pushing for praise and recognition that quite frankly pissed of many of Britain's soldiers that had done so much for so long
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  416. After Dunkirk Ike let the Crown's Corporals tag along one last time to remember what it felt like,even though kicking and screaming they didn't want to go - something about the mean Germans
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  417.  @davidcollins8604  Read some books,Start with Dr Niall Barr,Max Hastings,David Bennet, Correlli Barnet,ian Kershaw,John Keegan,William Widener,Basil Hart This is a great Docu I time stamped watch what these historians say https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1581 Britain had some great Officers unfortunately Churchill fired or ignored the right ones and by the time he got to Monty he was stuck,others should have been recalled.But the bosses can never admit they're wrong unfortunately
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  418. 1st off mantueffel was getting his shit shoved in by Patton's 3rd Army not Monty who wanted to withdaw.And I don't owe you sir an explanation after your rant assholes like little villa were pissing on the honor of dead GIs previously. Hasso had no idea who was doing what on the allied side. Also Monty lost a lot. What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. And then barely.. and poorly.Monty had serious deficiencies in fluid battles, and had limited ability to adjust his methods to changing operational situations. balance,flexibility, cooperation, simplicity and the assimulation of combat lessons.he was vain,rude objectionable From the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 469 Montgomery hesitated,suspecting that Runstedt 'had enough combat strength for another attack that could punch through to Liege.Collins thought not. "nobody is going to break through these troops" he told Montgomery"this isn't going to happen. "If the Allies failed to attack closer to the base of the salient,they risked leaving a corridor through which retreating Germans could escape, he told the Field Marshall you're going to push the Germans out of the bag,"Collins added,"just like you did at Falaise THE ARDENNES:BATTLE OF THE BULGE, by Hugh M. Cole,page 647*CENTER OF MLITARY HISTORY UNITED STATES ARMY The failure of the Fifth Panzer Army to close the gap opened by Patton’s troops at Bastogne convinced General Manteuffel that the time had arrived for the German forces in the Ardennes to relinquish all thought of continuing the offensive . Withdrawal in the west and south to a shortened line was more in keeping with the true combat capability of the gravely weakened divisions. At the end of the year Manteuffel had advised pulling back to the line Odeigne–La Roche–St. Hubert. 23 By 2 January Model apparently gave tacit professional agreement to Manteuffel’s views Oh and whether you admit it or not Monty was a major player at Dunkirk along with Brooke and Gort.Caen - ass kicking,took it in 43 days when he said he'd have it in 1Only took it after 7000 tons of ordinence were shot or dropped from Naval guns(per mile) and Allied BombersFalaise he played politics.Epsom,Goodwood look them up yourself .Market Garden is totally on Monty.
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  419. Watch that video I linked by proffessionals - then you may tackle history Market Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Monty is handed command .SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly.Holes got blasted in this very bad plan from Arnhem all the way down below Valkenswaard Fanboy distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved .And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have been.Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics From With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Cassel & Co., 1st edition, copyright 1966 .Page 599 "Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal. From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  420. Ist Para got slaughtered because of monty's crap plan.They didn't achieve their objectives because of Monty's piss poor hasty planning.Guards Armored were late then sat even the Germans said so.Monty failed to capture The V-2 launching sites,capture Arnhem or open up Antwerp .You aren't very well read or choose to ignore real accounts.Did you even take 5 minutes from the time stamp to watch any of that video.Or anything else i sourced probably not - then you've made your mind up.He isn't studied at military institutes except as a bad example.Enjoy your stroll thru the land of make believe
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  421. Well if he's an idiot you should have no problem stopping him then.What's keeping you?
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  422. Johnny busted it's over,help me TIK -help me try explaining that Princess
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  423. Better Call Monty
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  424.  @johnburns4017  Have you thought of what you might be if you grow up? Extra point question johnny,What continent did Generals Gort,Brooke and Montgomery get driven from and into the Sea .Leaving the Dutch,Poles,French,Belgians to cover their retreat. The same continent the 82nd/101st Airborne never retreated from.Take your time I know it's a tough one. And pick your plastic soldiers up off the floor - mum will be over at the center soon for a visit
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  425. Johnny you poor trampled cabbage leaf write down what you know that should leave you with plenty of free time to scribble more novels. The Rules were to let monty tag along like one does a little brother just so he could strut about like a proud peacock believing he was something that he wasn't - a Field Marshall. Everyone had a good laugh,the French were screaming sacre bleu, Guderian/Rommel were snickering and Stalin was like WTF
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  426. Irish Guards there How about Lt.Col. Vandeluer? Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson? Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,p.309 At the North end of the Bridge,Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Armored Division to push on immediately to Arnhem just 10 miles up the road. Their elation turned to anger as the growing British Force remained immobile Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp.General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate.Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge.Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points.And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs​ until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south.By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September.Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial Heinz Harmel? Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced LT John Gorman? Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright, "we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair" How about Lt.Col.Mackenzie? ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p 408 on arrival at the Hotle Hartenstein at 23:45 Lt.-Col Mackenzie opted to keep his dsiquiet over Brownings poor grasp of the gravity of the situation and the marked lack of urgency by XXX Corps and the 43rd Wessex to himself
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  427. Gavin didn't plan on the laggard's getting 7 miles the 1st day and finally crossing 7:10 pm on the 20th, 3 & 1/2 days later. MONTY GARDEN
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  428. Please he got more men(paras) killed crossing the rhine jesus you fooks are as indctrinated as the Hitler youth.That was always monty's excuse for not moving I'm sure you would have loved them .Read Ian Kershaw's the longest winter how slowly allied soldiers were dying as POWs. "ya take your time Monty don't worry about pissing up another operation or embarrassing yourself again"
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  429.  @street_cheeks  you are getting your wires crossed try reading below Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge, p366 While undoubtedly an American Triumph,the Ardennes Campaign produced a political defeat for the British. And as Churchill recognized there was a much greater consequence. Montgomery would find himself sidelined once across the Rhine on the advance into Germany and all British advice was ignored.The Country's influence was at an end The German and Allied casualties in the Ardennes fighting from 16 December 1944 to 29 January 1945 were fairly equaled. --German losses were around 80,000 dead,wounded,missing. --The Americans suffered 75,482 casualties,with 8,407 KIA. --The British lost 1,408 wounded of whom 200 were killed. Monty lied - the GIs actually thru him into a detaining cage look that up on Mark Felton's Board. Rumors ran rampant there was a monty look alike.Smacked the wisp around a tad,served him right for wanting to retreat then claiming vctory Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge,p.356 On January 18,determined to mend fences, Churchill made a speech in the House of Commons to emphasize "The United States troops have done almost all of the Fighting and have suffered almost all of the losses....Care must be taken in telling our proud tale not to claim for the British Army an undue share of what is undoubtedly the greatest American battle of the War and will I believe, be regarded as an ever famous American Victory".It was Montgomery's own fault that political considerations and rivalries now dictated allied strategy
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  430.  @street_cheeks  I don't know if it's dementia,delusion or denial. The britsh did have some good officers Monty wasn't among them
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  431. bull crap even with Alexander giving Bernard the inside road(High Way 124) Patton/Bradley still rolled up more territory than the rancid runt.Who by the way later badmouthed Alexander when he was living in Canada. Monty was the myth - and a very bad one
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  432. What is your point dave hack outside the one on your Head?
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  433.  @ErikExeu  TIK is a gamer and never been in the service and ignores peer reviewed Historians and quotes fanbois
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  434. 1st off your handler wrote it for you,secondly your Island asylum wasn't squat with out the big boys.That's why Churchill took everything he could but a red hot stove
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  435. Cornhole Monty's Market Garble changed the game.The brits were out as a player and the Allies couldn't jump over it because Monty already had most of 3 Air Borne divisions wiped out Page 409 from Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb "There were many reasons why Montgomery was being effectively downgraded once more .Eisenhower had no doubt any longer that his reputation as a battle-winning commander was greatly inflated.The experience at Caen,Antwerp,Arnhem and delays in following up the Ardennes assault and the excessively thorough build up for the Rhine crossing provided sufficient evidence for that.General Whitely .IKE's British deputy chief of operations,said the feeling at Allied HQs "was that if anything was to be done quickly,don't give it to Monty. Monty was the last person that would be chosen to drive on Berlin - he would have needed 6 months to prepare" Overlord,by Max Hastings,page 236 Monty announced during the Caen offensive that he was well pleased with the results.He wired Brooke in London "operations a complete success...he told the press his Armies had broken through the German front.Headlines the next day reflected Montgomery's enthusiasm for the battle:"Second Army breaks through...British Army in full cry...Wide corridor through German front...." From Churchill and Montgomery Myth,by R.W.Thompson,page 170 None of it was true - when it became obvious a few days later,the news papers were scurrying to correct themselves.Montgomery's exaggerations did not surprise experienced British Journalists;he had destroyed the German 90th Division so many times in N.Africa it had become a joke Page 331 Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a road sign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen Old Monty at least Japanese Commanders had the common decency to disembowel themselves after a disaster like this
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  436. There are many factors that can be cited for the failure of Operation Market Garden, all deserving of consideration: General Student thought the airborne landings were a great success and blamed the failure on the slow progress of XXX Corp In this respect, Generalfeldmarschall Model deserves credit for the skill with which he used the sparse resources available to him, particularly given the state Fifteenth Army was in at the time, and for recognising the importance of the Nijmegen bridges. Lt General Brereton reported to Washington that Market had been a brilliant success but had been let down by Garden, with which Bradley in part agreed, blaming Montgomery and the slow advance by the British between Nijmegen and Arnhem Major General Urquhart blamed the fact that the drop zones for 1st Airborne were too far from the bridge and rather unfairly, his own actions on the first day. Lt General Browning's report blamed XXX Corps' underestimation of the strength of the German forces in the area, the slowness with which it moved up the highway the weather, his own communications staff and 2nd Tactical Air Force for failing to provide adequate air support. He also managed to get General Sosabowski dismissed from his command for his increasingly hostile attitude. Field Marshal Montgomery blamed the slowness of XXX Corps in general and O'Connor in particular. Later, he partially blamed himself, but laid a large proportion of the blame on Eisenhower. ". . . if the operation had been properly backed from its inception, and given the aircraft, ground forces, and administrative resources necessary for the job - it would have succeeded in spite of my mistakes, or the adverse weather, or the presence of 2nd SS Panzer Corps in the Arnhem area." There is also the matter of allowing the German Fifteenth Army to escape into northern Holland where it could defend the approaches to Arnhem by not clearing the Scheldt estuary the nature of the highway along which XXX Corps had to advance (a two tank front), the failure to appreciate the unpredictability of the British weather in September, the critical requirement of good communications, which at that point in history was unlikely given the level of technology available and the blatant ignoring of intelligence (from both the Dutch resistance and reconnaissance flights) that armoured units had moved into the Arnhem area Sosabowski in particular feared a flexible, speedy, and strong response, saying, The British are not only grossly underestimating German strength in the Arnhem area, but they seem ignorant of the significance Arnhem has for the Fatherland
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  437. You two dweebs wouldn't recognize a fact if it blew up in your face and circled around and bit you in the ass.Oh splendid hi mate,ho mate,yo-ho-ho mate.More bloody bollocks from the inmates at the asylum.Just imagine after the GIs arrived Monty and his minions didn't get Dunkirked again.Hehehe.
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  438. 4 yrs for the BEF to cross it's own channel - then only ith the GIs
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  439. Tony that wasn't all their aircraft FFS they obviously saved formations for The Med/Desert/Normandy stop spinning yarns like dave hack. Who deeply resents people throwing his own bullshit back in his face while he pisses down the The USA contributions to get an absent stooge off the hook.The air lifts were also cancelled for very good reason not only their length of the flights were 300 miles one way as opposed to 30 across a freakin' channel.There were 2hrs less daylight on september 17 than June 6th and the weather was worse along with the fact the longer cooler nights caused a lot of mist in the morning. Monty getting his grubby mitts on 2 US AB Divisions changes none of the problems present. Also strategic bombing of the the Reich had been going on 24/7 practically Carl Spaatz,Bomber Harris, Hap Arnold weren't going to release flight & ground crews,allocate fuel and machines to interrupt their operations.Specially for monty's idea of going up a single road - and they were right
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  440. I like Winston but he must have went on a real bender before installing the woeful waif Bernard. The idea of Monty in charge of an operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable dread and the Krauts with incredible joy.
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  441. Almost daily in the Desert bernard wouldn't confront the DAK,letting them escape,not chancing a black eye after every one else propped him up,Air Corp/ULTRA/RN,the USA with massive influx of men.artillery/armor/food/fuel
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  442. Ist Para and the 82nd were let down by a crap plan(Monty) and a poor executive descision for allowing it(IKE)
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  443.  @lyndoncmp5751  Oh John Cornell nice of you to make a cameo Monty? Puhleeeze, What he won he won because of overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA,Naval Power and air support. Then barely.......and poorly. He was a propped up fraud and rode everyone else's accumulative hard work to a headline.Until the truth unraveled and it was obvious his command abilities were greatly exaggerated as IKE and the press later figured later figured out​. Borrowed this from friday-friday and the truth friday-friday Monty didn't seize Caen (day one objective) for over a month. Didn't close Failaise pocket. Didn't capture Rommel's army at El Alemian and took high losses just to win by default, Didn't trap Afika Corp in Tunisia, couldn't capture any vital channel ports, didn't grab airfields. Didn't open Antwerp's approaches when it was wide open, Didn't even make it to the half way point in MarketGarden (Arnhem was only end of first half), Didn't get past Nijmegen for over 6 months.... I could go on and on. His failures are the stuff of legend.
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  444. Yes he did Operation Thunder clap Most of Allied HQ heard Monty in fact brag he'd have Caen in a day. In Sicliy the laggard in fack got schooled in modern,mobile warfare. When he wasn't given everything he wasn't even average.The Allies not bernard provided the massive advantages in men/materiel/air supremecy and ULTRA - even the stunted runt couldn't lose. Patton grabbed both Palermo and Messina - even with Monty's pal Alexander giving him the inside highway 124 in tha American Operating sector
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  445. Extra point question johnny,What continent did Generals Gort,Brooke and Montgomery get routed from and skedaddle in the other direction .The same continent the 82nd Airborne never retreated from. The French,Belgians,Dutch,Poles and Czechs would like to know Take your time I know it's a tough one.And pick your plastic soldiers up off the steps - mum will be home soon,help her with the groceries this time
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  446. Ah more of Monty's apologists poking their heads out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan.Allied HQ finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 70 mile lane with no room for maneuver during a wet autumn is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly. Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.219 "Montgomery went over my head" Air Marshall Conningham recalled after the war. "Month after month he did that; until he had his failure at Arnhem - then they made him listen. He violated all command channels" "Monty's water logged summaries tried to hide glaring weaknesses of a hopelessly flawed plan" - Sabastian Ritchie Alan Brooke's own words "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it ​ The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr without Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. He would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  447. Operation Plunder/Varsity Monty got 1100 airmen/paras killed in ONE DAY.We have already discussed this.There was no need what so ever to conduct Airborne operations when the Wehrmacht were falling back or willfully surrendering to the Western allies.Knowing they'd get much better treatment and terms from the West. Three armies crossed 2 days earlier and further south - 3rd US Army(Patton) at Oppenheim, 1st US Army(Hodges) & 291 Engineers at Remagen
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  448. asshole the GIs held the field after those unlike Monty who was nowhere around for M-G.The GIs finished the scrum in the last 6 months Monty only got Arnhem and across the Rhine - after Bradley,Patton,Hodges and the 291st Engineers - the Tommies deserved better than Monty
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  449. Monty wasn't a real field Marshall Like Walter Model - who actually showed up and directed General Montgomery pushed for this debacle and got it .Then doesn't show up to command, as his plan got blasted 3 miles in when Panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans and continued to collapse on it's self going forward .And things continued to come apart for the next 64 miles .It was a horribly disjointed plan contrived by a damaged little man interested in his own glorification. , What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. And then barely.. and poorly.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics.Monty had serious deficiencies in fluid battles, and had limited ability to adjust his methods to changing operational situations. balance,flexibility, cooperation, simplicity and the assimulation of combat lessons.he was vain,rude objectionable - a legend in his own mind It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction
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  450. You and history have but a fleeting acquaintance Pinhead Monty dawdled and in fact crossed after Bradley/Hodges/Patton/291st Enginneers .Do readers of the comment sections a favor - next time you're pulling numbers and opinions out of your ass,get your head out of there 1st you need a suppository in your mouth and a history lesson Page 368,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-1945,By Max Hastings The US Army relished to the utmost the spectacle of Montgomery preparing to "stage" a huge,formal military pageant ,more than 2 days after it's own soldiers had crossed 70 miles to the south. Patton's Army had crossed at night on 22 March - "without the benefit of aerial bombing,ground smoke,artillery preparation and airborne assistance," - all of which 21st Army Group(Montgomery) was employing on a prodigious scale!! Montgomery in Europe 1943-45,by Richard Lamb pages 360-362 "British 6th Airborne had lost 30% of it's personnel killed and wounded;the Air landing brigade,which came in gliders had lost over 70% of its equipment The Army that needed to keep casualty count low lost over 3,100 men crossing the Rhine north of Wesel The disparity between the number of lives lost at Wesel and the 2 earlier American crossings is striking Casualty figures for the Rhine River crossings tell a grim story. Hodges 1st US Army got across at Remagen with a casualty count of 31 men Patton's 3rd US Army came across near Oppenheim "with the total loss of 28 men killed and wounded. Simpson's 9th US Army had to wait and cross with Montgomery;they suffered 491 casualties crossing south of Wesel.The US 17th Airborne Division lost 921 Paratroopers and 350 air crew(all with Montgomery's 21st Army Group) Then they lost another 841 casualties crossing south The sad fact is Monty rode the GI's coat tails.The only reason IKE went along with anything the he proposed was to give Stalin and the Soviets a look of solidarity
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  451. Your Poof Monty lost over 3,100 men crossing north of Wessel and another almost 1,000 crossing south of it. No wonder you neighbor named his dog Monty - he left a bunch of steaming piles everywhere he went Page 368,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-1945,By Max Hastings The US Army relished to the utmost the spectacle of Montgomery preparing to "stage" a huge,formal military pageant ,more than 2 days after it's own soldiers had crossed 70 miles to the south.Patton's Army had crossed at night on 22 March - "without the benefit of aerial bombing,ground smoke,artillery preparation and airborne assistance," - all of which 21st Army Group(Montgomery) was employing on a prodigious scale!! It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September. The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time.
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  452.  @kaledakram  VA forges alot of facts Caen and Falaise were both Monty disasters - he was simply along for the ride.Of course Monty was no where around for Market Garden
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  453. Sorry Johnny Monty not only planned and ordered it but bugged out when it went wrong.
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  454. Monty ignored & discounted the basic logistical reality of not only one road but that the Wehrmacht were falling back upon their own supply and logistical centers. The Germans had lots of practice doing this type of operation because of all their mauled divisions coming back from the Eastern Front then going to France. This means that German Divisions could be quickly reconstituted, refitted, and reinforced with replacement up to full strength in short order. The Allies were advancing further and away from their supply centers with long supply lines meaning they were vulnerable to German counterattack or getting bogged down against a German defense in depth with dug in troops in fortifications. The Germans were experts at taking shattered divisions and rebuilding them quickly. SHAEF was right,the Port of ANTWERP should have been opened FIRST What would the Wehrmacht have done, assuming Arnhem was successful? The Ruhr was what 50 miles away if that! The idea you can make one long extended penetration with long extended supply lines into northern Germany, along one axis of advance is IDIOCY . The Wehrmacht still had plenty of infantry divisions, armored division with military resources and capacity to fight in the autumn of 1944. The Germans would have had the advantage of interior lines of communications, nearby supply depots, and urban centers to concentrate a counteroffensive against any single attack into northern Germany across the Rhine via Arnhem. Does anyone think the Wehrmacht under Hitler was going to roll over and surrender in the fall of 1944? Specially after the allies demanded UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER? A successful attack across the Rhine could only be accomplished from MULTIPLE POINTS simultaneously. This action is exactly what happened in the spring of 1945. The air transports used for the FAILED Operation Market-Garden should have been used for fuel and ammo deliveries to supplement truck transport for Bradley/Devers advances. The American 82nd and 101st airborne should have been used as regular infantry divisions to spearhead attacks in critical sectors. Most importantly, using the 82nd and 101st for American infantry attacks would have kept them far away from Montgomery which would have been better for everybody.
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  455. And Monty believed he was a Field Marshall 🤣 Is bernard getting rough in the tub with you again Johnny - ring the nurses station and report this
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  456. Um no it was a debacle as bernard had shown he was capable at Sicily,Caen,Goodwood,falaise and of course Monty Garden
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  457. Monty didn't do squat he ordered Gen Collins to fall back and he was ignored.later Monty was tossed into a security cage at a check point by the GIs .The were rumors of imposters - they all had a good laugh as he was screaming like a cat in a fan belt - good times. Evidently IKE loved the arrogant arse got his.
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  458. plenty he wanted to outshine everyone look at what he'd tell the Press
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  459. The V-2 were still operating the Dutch lost over 21,000 civilians to the German reprisals during the hunger winter.17,000 front line paras were lost.Antwerp wasn't open and Monty had to backtrack to do that.And of course it would take another 6 months for Monty to cross the Rhine - with the GIs help of course
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  460. the 9th & 10th SS were most certainly in Arnhem.Blechley had picked up their radio dispatches
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  461.  @od1452  good post,it was amazing this operation was a classic example of counting your chickens before the hatch As far as the supposedly rampant "Victory Disease" was concerned.A disaster tactically,the Dutch said there was another western-northern route that provided multiple routes and no poulder marshes to contend with - good tank country.IKE and especially Adml Ramsay were right they absolutely needed Antwerp from a supply and provisions standpoint
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  462. Sure while the rest of these yapping jackels weave their revisionist rubbish into the narrative to get the absent cad off the hook. Never questioning why The lack of initiative/tactics displayed by ground force commanders - Dempsey/Horrocks/Vandeleur sitting on their arses in their tanks until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:35 in the afternoon - did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown Instead of limping into Valkenswaard
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  463.  MC  the guy your talking to has changed his name as his last incarnation he totally faffed up. He likes to denigrate the GIs .
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  464. It's called History try reading it - as adverse and revolting as it appears to you
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  465. even the comment sections need buckets when reading your posts You keep refuting yourself with the stupidity of your own statements.None of the objectives were met -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend."With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions".General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted
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  466. UNITED STATES ARMY IN WORLD WAR II THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN By Charles B. MacDonald P157 General Browning, was "clear and emphatic" to the effect that the division was "not to attempt the seizure of the Nijmegen Bridge until all other missions had been successfully accomplished *In his formal order General Browning stated: "The capture and retention of the high ground between Nijmegen and Groesbeck is imperative in order to accomplish the Division's task." Monty doesn't show up & you chodes call him a Field Marshall. Carrington crosses the Waal Bridge then stops in Lent refusing to go on and you refer to him as LORD. Churchill demands GERMANY FIRST then they head 3000 miles away into a desert. Brooke/Bernard took 4 years to cross a 30 mile channel after getting driven into it. And the GIs come 3500 miles of ocean with every provision imaginable to try and get it sorted All this of course after British forces were being "evacuated" from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Perhaps when you pull your very dense head out the waterhead TIKs backside you could read actual books
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  467. LMAO he's been knighted and awarded from every military history guild/society in the US/UK/Canada.Austr.,you don't like him because he's accurate and tells the brazen truth.Why don't hacks like TIK write a book? Becuase he relishes the fact that chodes like you eat up and promote the useless poof Monty. He writes something and he gets pasted by actual Historians
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  468. ULTRA intercepts DEFE 3/221, XL 9247, XL 9466, (8 September 1944).ULTRA intercepts from both the Public Records Office, London and Hartenstein Museum. On 6 September orders were issued from the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (German Armed Forces High Command), subordinating the First Parachute Army, previously a training unit, to Army Group B, under the command of General Walter Model. The First Parachute Army, under General Kurt Student, was assigned to defend along the Albert Canal between Brussels and Maastricht. Further the message outlined the revised order of battle, identifying the 3rd, 5th, and 6th Parachute Divisions; LXXXVIII Corps with 719th and 344th Infantry Divisions; battle groups from the Netherlands formed from SS training units and Herman Goring Training Regiment. Supporting would be ten anti-aircraft batteries, equipped with the 88mm multi-purpose gun, deadly when utilized in an anti-tank role. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.262-63 Brigadier E.T. Williams, Montgomery's Intelligence Chief cautioned the Field Marshall that the Allies "enemy appreciation was very weak" and that no proper study of the ground around Arnhem had been made . A radio decrypt also revealed the enemy expected a XXX Corp thrust toward Nijmegen. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.270 one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in the area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches
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  469. 1st off XXX Corps did not cross the damn bridge until 7:10 PM on the 20th - a full 3 & 1/2 days,suppose to be there in two.2ndly Lord Carrington stopped in his tracks after crossing just 10 miles away. And 3rd Monty was a no-show unlike an actual Field Marshall Walter Model. Any idiot that thought it a good idea to shoehorn a whole amored column over 70 miles on an elevated lane surrounded by polder marshes shouldn't even be leading a boy scout assembly = MONTY GARDEN Alan Brooke's own words blaming bernard with Adml Ramsay chiming in​ "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow." Monty admitting it The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here, Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth.
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  470. Brereton has nothing to do with ignoring ULTRA or Monty lying to IKE that the Air Marshalls had agreed with his plan when in fact they had never even been consulted. Even Bedell-Smith warned Monty about the 9th & 10th SS units in/around Arnhem ♦Ambition over reaching capability. ♦D-Day had 30 miles flights across the Channel. ♦Monty Garden had 300 mile flights to NE Netherlands ♦D-Day had 900 flights.Monty Garden had 1600 Flights ♦D-Day was June 6th.Monty Garden was September 17th And over 2 hrs less daylight to do all that in ♦So there were 700 MORE FLIGHTS than D-Day. They were 300 miles one way to North East Netherlands not 30 miles across a channel. And 2 hrs less daylight to do it in. SMDH
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  471. Does this video address ♦ If Monty could have inconvenienced himself to attend his own operational debacle that after the war he fessed up to? Largest Air Drop in History up until that point and the poof couldn't be bothered? There were cock ups all the way back to the Belgian Border and it didn't involve Gavin or the 82nd.Ya but go ahead and try to blame this abortion on an Americans 55 miles down the road. ♦Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:30 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. ♦Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bring the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but Monty's pathetic planning.This operation is a prime example of the clownish incompetence of his command. ♦And why did Monty and Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think ? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 4 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site ♦Why were Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September, not in October and not in November ♦Monty neither captured the V-2 launch sites, Arnhem or Antwerp during Market Garden. And the reprisals brought on the honger winter - great job
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  472. a legend 🤣 got anymore of those drugs? Amongst the Full Monty Club he's the High Priest. Well he hasn't had to take down any boards for libel for 4-5 yrs so I guess that's a win
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  473.  @johnceglick8714  Kudos to your father and the many like them .The plan was so good monty didn't show up for it. this board is nothing more than a monty rooting section and bends the truth and facts to save that bent little freaks reputation
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  474. From the Germans there/then 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p.215 Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit:The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. 'Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'*It was a lost chance* "It Never Snows in September" by Robert J. Kershaw,p.129 Capt Viktor Graebner had a mixture of 22 Armoured vehicles at his disposal,APCs and half tracks some of which mounted 75 mm guns.They represented the highest concentration of armoured vehicles in the 9 SS.All at the minimum,possesed a machine gun mount 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 141 German defenses put 2 - 20 mm cannon placed at the access points of both bridges (rail & road) able to fire across and mutually support each other 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p.143 18 September,south of Grave from Schijndel towards the station at Erde S.W of Veghel.General Student "I was able to observe a flak platton attached from the Reichsarbeitsdienst who fired with both their 88 guns at a single American Paratroopers sniping from high buildings,harassing our attack from the flanks 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p.194 both the 82nd Airborne and British Guards Armored were aware they were up against seasoned SS troops of about 500 that held the road held the road bridge. They were supported by an 88 mm gun on the traffic circle and 4 - 47 mm and a 37 mm with mortars in the Hunner Park. SS Capt.Schwappacher was supproting battle groups "when ever the enemy was ready to advance onto the bridge we hit them with the full impact of an artillary barrage which immediately halted the attacks where upon out infantry,reinforced were ble to to maintain their positions so reality exists,Bad Bernard Planning 'It never Snows in September' by Robert J.Kershaw,map reference pages 192-193 The German Defense of Nijmegan 17-20 September 1944.The KampfgruppeHenke initially established a line of defense outposts based on the two traffic circles south of the railway and road bridges on 17 September.The 10SS Kampfgruppe Reinhold arrived and established the triangular defense with Euling on the road bridge,Henke and other units defending the approaches of the railway bridge,and his own Kampfgruppe on the home bank in the village of Lent.A surprise assault river crossing by the U.S. 3/504 combined with a tank assault on the road bridge on 20 September unhinged the defense. The Waal had been secured by 1900.There was nothing further barring the road to Arnhem 17 kilometers to the North OMG was cancelled previously as Operation Linnet and then Comet for good reasons by British Planners. Grabbing 2 more American AB Divisions doesn't eliminate those complications. Too many flights(700 more than D-Day), too long of flights and over 2hrs less daylight than the D-Day drops in June. And that wasn't even factoring in unfavorable weather conditions - that did arise. The planners earlier stated when the massive flight formations hit the coast the German Army well dug-in on Walcheren Island and the shores of the Scheldt estuary would radio back immediately to Wehrmacht Command of their approach losing all element of surprise.
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  475. Ah more British blowholes Another desperately trying to prove the British actually had a role in winning WWII. Just say thank you. The British sitting in their tanks at the Belgian Border until 2:30 pm the 1st day completely losing the initiative.Horrocks,Vandeleur and Dempsey watching supply transports go over - did they think they somehow would catch up? Had they left at 1st light they would have made the bridge at Son before Jerry blew it up. But at least they showed up unlike Monty
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  476. Stevie you pinhead it was a British hatched plan and there was only one gun on that 8 miles of road. Read It Never Snows in September or have your middle school teacher do it for you
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  477. ♦ Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:35 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. ♦ The Armored column making it a whole 7 miles the 1st day as Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bringing the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but Monty's pathetic planning.This operation is a prime example of the clownish incompetence of his command. But in Britain that will get you the title of Field Marshall ♦ And why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think ? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site? MONTY GARDEN
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  478. Clausewitz warned against marching through a valley without having taken the hills. Market Garden was the equivalent of doing just that.Having only one road to advance upon should have been warning enough not to undertake the operation. -The idea of Monty in charge of an operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable dread and the Krauts with incredible joy. Bernard was in reality a plodding, unimaginative,spotlight grabbing little shit "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:p.525 Alan Brooke wrote about Monty in his diary "He requires a lot of educating to make him see the whole situation and the war as a whole outside of the 8th Army orbit. A difficult mixture to handle a commander in action and trainer of men,but liable to commit untold errors,due to lack of tact, lack of appreciation of other people's outlook. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.262-63 Brigadier E.T. Williams, Montgomery's Intelligence Chief cautioned the Field Marshall that the Allies "enemy appreciation was very weak" and that no proper study of the ground around Arnhem had been made . A radio decrypt also revealed the enemy expected a XXX Corp thrust toward Nijmegen. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.270 one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in the area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches *Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este*​ from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp, the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. we might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02 General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Sir Francis De Guingand, From Brass Hat to Bowler Hat, p. 16. - Unfortunately I cannot say that I did support Operation MARKET-GARDEN Montgomery's supposed master stroke; but as I was in the hospital in Aldershot I was powerless to dissuade him. I attempted to, on the telephone; for there were too many ifs in the plan and Prince Bernard was warning, from his intelligence network in Bolland, that German armoured units were stationed there. However, to my telephone warnings Montgomery merely replied, 'You are too far away Freddie, and don't know what's going on' Liddell-Hart, History Second World War, p. 594 Liddell-Hart, although understanding Montgomery's reasoning, believed that the last true hope to end the war in 1944 dissolved with the halting of Patton's tanks on 23 August 1944.
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  479. Horrocks didn't get off his ass until 2 PM on the 17th and stopped at 6 pm.How many times has that had to be pointed out to you.Then they stop once over the Bridge at Nijmegen
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  480. Monty never showed up and Carrington stopped going no farther but in England they reward such truency with the titles of Field Marshall or Lord :face-blue-smiling:
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  481. Johhny when you get the restraining order rescinded and ankle monitor removed perhaps the Library will read you some stories
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  482. That was directed a burns and his kerfuffle
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  483. he never said that Burns you've done it again re arranged the content so it say what you weak minded such as yourself.The put it into italics so these revisionist slappies eat it up. What BOOK? What PAGE? You lying hound your shuffle the sentences like a Vegas card shark shuffles a deck,only the're much sharper and better at it than you CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS,Transcribed By Major Gary Wade "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce. But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything Monty was a good General, I've always said, but never a great one.
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  484. read the Full Monty - bernard liked Nigel Hamilton and Lucien Treub. Britain and Monty had 4 yrs to cross a 30 mile channel. The GIs had to cross a 3,500 mile ocean to assist them
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  485. Um no Monty ignored & discounted the basic logistical reality of not only one road but that the Wehrmacht were falling back upon their own supply and logistical centers. The Germans had lots of practice doing this type of operation because of all their mauled divisions coming back from the Eastern Front then going to France. This means that German Divisions could be quickly reconstituted, refitted, and reinforced with replacement up to full strength in short order. The Allies were advancing further and away from their supply centers with long supply lines meaning they were vulnerable to German counterattack or getting bogged down against a German defense in depth with dug in troops in fortifications. The Germans were experts at taking shattered divisions and rebuilding them quickly. SHAEF was right,the Port of ANTWERP should have been opened FIRST What would the Wehrmacht have done, assuming Arnhem was successful? The Ruhr was what 50 miles away if that! The idea you can make one long extended penetration with long extended supply lines into northern Germany, along one axis of advance is IDIOCY . The Wehrmacht still had plenty of infantry divisions, armored division with military resources and capacity to fight in the autumn of 1944. The Germans would have had the advantage of interior lines of communications, nearby supply depots, and urban centers to concentrate a counteroffensive against any single attack into northern Germany across the Rhine via Arnhem. Does anyone think the Wehrmacht under Hitler was going to roll over and surrender in the fall of 1944? Specially after the allies demanded UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER? A successful attack across the Rhine could only be accomplished from MULTIPLE POINTS simultaneously. This action is exactly what happened in the spring of 1945. The air transports used for the FAILED Operation Market-Garden should have been used for fuel and ammo deliveries to supplement truck transport for Bradley/Devers advances. The American 82nd and 101st airborne should have been used as regular infantry divisions to spearhead attacks in critical sectors. Most importantly, using the 82nd and 101st for American infantry attacks would have kept them far away from Montgomery which would have been better for everybody.
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  486. Go tell your stories to the nurses at the home or the Europeans who saw you Uncles big behinds hauling ass off the beaches and up the gang planks.Leaving the gallant French Soldiers to cover the reversal/retreat.Johnny why don't you go vacation in the Czech Republic and make sure to wear your Coat with the Union Jack on the Back 🤣
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  487.  @jimwest63  Perhaps but the above wanker is not beyond telling tall tales to get Monty off the hook.Along with IKE who acquiesced to him.And XXX Corp was in no big rush - that is documented
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  488. It's not well researched,it's a nationalistic hit piece.I've read at least half those books and those authors don't come to TIK's conclusions
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  489. BTW it's 80 yrs starting this week that Monty led one of the largest retreats in Military History @ Dunkirk.It's also 75 years ago this week for Victory in Europe.See what a Super Power can do in just 5 yrs.Even correcting all the damage done by the crumbling crown and it's rancid runt got themselves into - You're welcome Giovanni Burns
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  490. Burns Guards Armored and 43 Wessex just arrived in Nijmegan,tell them the war is over and all is forgiven - except for you. Oh this is just rich john burns asking himself in his giovanni peeair account to agree with himself. Johnny ring the nurses station there - you pants are obviously filled Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  491.  @johnburns4017  You can't be helped IKE sent the rube packing but allowed him at the surrender ceremony out of respect for the troops. Oh since you conveniently forgot I'll remind you BTW it's 80 yrs starting this week that Monty led one of the largest retreats in Military History @ Dunkirk.It's also 75 years ago this week for Victory in Europe.See what a Super Power can do in just 5 yrs.Even correcting all the damage done by the crumbling crown and it's rancid runt got themselves into - You're welcome Giovanni Burns
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  492. Burns even Horrocks called the river crossing the most gallant thing he witnessed in the entire war - while monty wasn't even around
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  493. https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1580 even time stamped it where you need to learn https://youtu.be/Amo1f1_Hvho?t=2140 by a British PHD,in your case piled higher and deeper https://www.historynet.com/eisenhower-fire-1944-45.htm Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them. Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance. Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through them and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe You are welcome Swiis Boy Burns,pretty impressive huh coming across an Ocean just to carry Monty back across a channel
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  494. Put bong down and back away from the keyboard .Like Monty backed out of Europe
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  495. More like he took swimming lessons from Monty and Brooke.True Story that he was always grateful for - they were quite good at it
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  496. Puddles you've been wrong once and that has been continuously.I reserch Historians where as your resources are Burns' Big Book of British Bullocks
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  497. Actually read what he said,simply saying that while pointing out he wasn't really shit.Collins also ignored Monty in the Ardennes - thank God
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  498. Johnny Giovanni - have they let you out into yard recently.Hope you don't catch anything cooped up with the rest of the unfortunates,Good Luck Just how many alias accounts do you have??? Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 all a coincidence I'm sure johnny Giovanni :face-blue-smiling:
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  499. Well thought out response are you Monty's swiss boy
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  500. Puddles We never expect much from you and you never fail to disappoint.See the Vicor there is still hope
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  501. @ninjakid6 Read Beevor,Hastings,Bennet,Barnett,Hart on Rommel to name a few
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  502. @ninjakid6 .Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly.Who in any other army would have been relieved and BTW he wasn't at OMG,or Eindhoven,Nijmegan or Arnhem .And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have been.Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics
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  503. @ninjakid6 Monty was given everything the allies could even stopping Bradley/Patton's much swifter advance to give the Rube 12 Army groups supplies and he still faffed things up just like caen,goodwood,Falaise and of course his masterpiece market garden
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  504. @ninjakid6 no he didn't read Bradleys last book ,there were strict operational sectors that Monty did not want Bradley/Patton operating in his sector to they could have closed the gap.But Monty exercized his option
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  505. @ninjakid6 Ike gave him orders that at the time were nothing more than political considerations.But Monty did order the halt.Freddie DeGuingand and ET Williams 21st Army intel officers both heard Monty tell Bradley to hold the advance ,the General was Haislip.
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  506. @ninjakid6 Patton/Bradley.Haislip could have started to close gap strting on the 13th but were ordered down,which was previously agreed upon sectors.The Canadians didn't close it until the 21st or 22nd.Thousands more escaped many who later fought at Market Garden
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  507. @ninjakid6 So Freddie and ET williams were full of shit?Dr Pogue lying? Remember Freddie had to watch what he said after that -sort of because monty ascended to Brooke's job - bad move. Later on the runt talked to Brooke and Alexander like shyt.
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  508. And the escaped numbers are are all over the place.But from the 13th to the 21st or 22nd a lot more got away
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  509.  @imperialcommander639  yes he's a waterhead an unfortunate life long disability
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  510. Of course you say that it's worked well for you getting free internet and all
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  511. That is a question Bernard should have proposed before blundering head on - well he actually didn't show up but you get it. Bernard should have let Horrocks go the 1st week in September
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  512.  @sean640307  he didn't say it in hindsight - in real time at the moment. Monty's misadventures are the things of legend. I would have called up Morshead - the man was a natural or even TheAuk,Alex or the Canadian Simmonds
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  513. The airlifts were a pipe dream from the start that are continually reinforced by revisionists such as yourself to get Monty off the hook. It was made clear by the RAF that it was not feasible not in the numbers needed anyway. That is why Linnet/Comet were cancelled in the 1st place, Monty adding 2 US divisions doesn't remove those obstacles and obvious setbacks. When the flight formations approached the coast all element of surprise was lost. The German Army well dug-in on Walcheren Island and the shores of the Scheldt estuary would simply radio back immediately to Wehrmacht Command of their approach giving Flak teams plenty of time to prepare OVERLORD 2 months earlier was 30 miles across the channel,maybe another 20-30 miles inland. These flights were almost 300 miles ONE WAY from air fields 50 miles west of London up into NE Netherlands around Arnhem, flying in prop driven cargo planes not today's jets. The Dutch Army who wasn't really consulted stated going right up highway 69 was one long choke point surrounded flood plains,polder marshes and drainage ditches - it had been war gamed before the war started. Also thousands of experienced, well-fortified enemy soldiers still had to be dislodged from key positions they inhabited. Fallschirmjäger General Kurt Student had dropped into that exact area in 1940 he was very familiar with the area and perhaps the best tactical commander on any front MONTY GARDEN
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  514. Monty was sitting on the sidelines when Patton took Lorraigne and was only stopped to give Monty food/fuel/men/materiel and still failed allowing the wehrmacht in the Saar to refit and reinforce. Metz wasn't taken by the British in 1815 and was considered one of the most formidable citadels in the world with 43 reinforced concrete artillery equiped bunkers.Not one silly elevated wide open lane that bernard didn't even bother to show up and direct. Bradley never got driven from the continet or rubbed down little lads as has been pointed out to you every day since at least 2013 or was that 2010 Little Villa?
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  515.  @thevillaaston7811  Who the F** is He?Just another in a long list of logical people who realise that You have your head so far up Monty's ass you can tell us what he had for lunch.Did the Vicor take you out for an an Easter Egg Hunt today Little Villa?May the Lord Bless you this Easter Season
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  516. Burns You keep refuting yourself with the stupidity of your own statements.None of the objectives were met you knob -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success
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  517. Winston Churchill became prime minister in May 1940. Churchill realized straight away that it would be vitally important to enlist the United States as Britain's ally. Randolph Churchill, on the morning of 18th May, 1940, claims that his father told him "I think I see my way through.... I mean we can beat them." When Randolph asked him how, he replied with great intensity: "I shall drag the United States in."
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  518.  @nickdanger3802  Was that a website or a book?ya they ignore these enormous provisions that they couldn't produce for their own sustenance dismiss it as nothing. That 8 decades ago they were clawing for, while the Tommies performed alright their leaders/officers certainly didn't
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  519. Attenborough and Ryan were both British in his books he has plenty of pictures(you should like that) of himself and the many of the German/British/American officers he met and interviewed
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  520. Really that's why Churchill was in the Whitehouse the day Tobruk fell and and FDR offered the 300 Shermans and the 100+ self propelled 105 mm Howitzers that got delivered before 2nd Alamain.Pathetic really tossers like you hammeron like the Crown were deal breakers and the USA had nothing to do with assisting you. How many gold and diamond mines in S.Africa did your Royals strip to pay back the US Treasurey?
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  521. Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved. Monty Didn't seize Caen (day one objective) for over a month. Didn't close Failaise pocket. Didn't capture Rommel's army at El Alemian and took high losses just to win by default, Didn't trap Afika Corp in Tunisia, couldn't capture any vital channel ports, Didn't open Antwerp's approaches when it was wide open, Didn't even make it to the half way point in MarketGarden (Arnhem was only end of first half), Didn't get past Nijmegen for over 6 months.... I could go on and on. His failures are the stuff of legend. Arnhem,Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes: 'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle.There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said "Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem" Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery;based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for Monty was very weak. More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  522. To get Monty back to france since he couldn't do it himself. A little favor from IKE to Winston
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  523. He's a novelists not a historian and caters to Monty fanboys
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  524. The 82nd has nothing to do with the British XXX Corp showing up late and bernard not showing up at all.The whole concept for Operation Market-Garden was premised on the FALSE idea that the German Wehrmacht was in a shambles in September, 1944. This notion underrates the expertise of German military planners to reconstitute new divisions out of shattered ones. Their ability to respond and take a mishmash of broken, depleted troops, hastily assembled from miscellaneous units with a wild assortment of backgrounds then organize them to fight was a big factor in the outcome. Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,p.309 At the North end of the Bridge,Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Armored Division to push on immediately to Arnhem just 10 miles up the road. Their elation turned to anger as the growing British Force remained immobile Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." Gavin did not have an answer for him. The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate. Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para* still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. *Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points. And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs*​ until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. *By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it "the English stopped for tea" ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it "the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move" While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try too hard despite the urgency of the situation. Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair.
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  525. Benrard immediately got rid of them and told Brooke he didn't want them in his army.Like everywhere the rube ran plans into the sand i.e. Monty Garden/Caen,just another example of his clownish command
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  526. Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Montgomery & his colleagues threw away all that they had learned since 1939 about the speed & reaction of Hitlers Army..Its brilliance at improvisation,its dogged skill in defense,its readiness to punish allied mistakes. Montgomery’s own staff was opposed to the plan, as was his own chief of staff. With the principal organizations scattered in far-flung locations they never met to coordinate and resolve Market Garden’s obvious flaws or question its contradictions
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  527. Giovanni Johnny - I've told you a dozen times at Least at Alam Halfa Monty just dug in Auchilech and Dorman-Smiths minefield did the rest.British Intelligence brought ULTRA fully operational and FDR sent 300 Sherman's and 150 self propelled 105 howitzers.And of course the Gerries had no Air cover there and German supply lines stretched back to Tripoli - even you could have won there.A good job by the Allies.He never moved for 9 weeks and that's what Auchilech wanted to refit and reinforce - try reading some history - watch the video but you have to set your beer down 1st
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  528. What great victories?Dunkirk?Caen,Falaise,M-G,the Rhine Crossing where Monty lost more than the 3 other Armies that Proceeded him,LMAO.And that was with U.S.9th Army's help
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  529. From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 292 Despite Montgomery's message to IKE that he thought there was still a "sporting chance" of taking the bridge at Arnhem he must have sensed by then that a terrible disaster was taking place,which would considerably damage his reputation. After all his demands for priority which he received in the north to get across the Rhine,he could not have wanted to face IKE,Patton,Bradley and SHAEFF in Versailles .And could not have been keen to encounter General Bedell-Smith or Strong ,whose fears about German strength in the southern Netherlands Monty had ridiculed.The very next day Monty wrote in his diary "I am very doubtful now if 1st airborne will be able to hold out and we may have to withdraw them". And the fact he never visited Horrocks during the entire battle confirms the impression that he was keeping his distance,a rare event for the "Master" From September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 42 The sad truth was that Market Garden could not be changed or amended into a better concept. It stood as what it was a deeply flawed plan based mainly on hope.Stemming from the faulty premise that a single thrust into Northern Germany could magically spell doom for Hitler. It was a zero defect plan that could succeed only if everything,or at least most things went right As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.”
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  530. Old Monty at least Japanese Commanders had the common decency to disembowel themselves after a disaster like this .SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians References were given,repeatedly qouting the rantings of a failure gets you nothing This hack wrote 90 books,30 of them on the War,that means he wrote meaningless bullshit almost as much as you and your aliases on your account .This guy didn't even use sources properly - because he had none .Like you pulling them out of his ample backside Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  531. The Montgomery Myth,by R.W.Thompson Given British grievous disappointments in the Eastern Mediterranean and the fragile nature of any military alliance,General Montgomery was an extremely poor choice to command an Allied Army Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion.Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery;based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for monty was very weak
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  532. putting drivel in italics won't work,which page number - the allies won there,without resupply,ULTRA,the AIR Force,the new 300 Shermans and 150 Arrtillary pieces plus Auchenlech's mine field HE laid,Monty was nothing.Oh and after Kasserine which was taken back in 11 days,the Big Red One and Patton's Army saved Monty by intercepting and driving back 10 Panzer.Too bad you are unread you would have known that.
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  533. The only myth is you and your grade school rhetorical remarks you Wiki warrior - get that head wound looked at and stay off the merry go round.Go tell the Europeans or the ANZAC's your hallucinations.I believe POMS is the word Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013 - Those were direct quotes.Per usual 8 decades later knobs like you attempt to rewrite and whitewash with your revision.And 1919 has nothing to do with this.After of course having to sort out the other messes you got into
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  534. It seems you and history have but a fleeting acquaintance you lying hound the USA didn't run out of anything the Crown got run out of the Pacific and the ANZAC knows this .Now you know Pom.Indeed – the English have a way of using colonials as their sandbags – ask Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and especially the Irish.Your claims are so absurd it basically disqualifies you from any serious discussion on this topic. After Midway it was a slow slide into the abyss .You are plastering novels and hoping someone as poorly read and educated as you believes it.Oh my grabbing folklore off of Wki - you realize probably not you dim bulb that it is composed of readers contributions.And I can see you inserted some of your banal barkings.And John Burns get a life .Do you get into online arguments to have some one to talk to.Educate yourself I'd rather you read those comments again.  They're in English, don't worry.
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  535. The Americans held the field there while giving Monty the 1st and 9th Armies just to get him to move.And the berk still didn't cross the Rhine for 6 months after Arnhem and of course after 3 US Armies - pathetic I'm sure you'd agree
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  536.  @raybarry4307  I was taliking to the berk above me not you - he takes creative license shall we say
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  537. More TIK Tripe, Gavin NEVER said any such thing - stop accessing the crown's comics. And the coward bernard stayed behind as those brave souls ordered forward were killed/wounded/captured. The Germans would have sacked Monty,the Russians would have shot him. UNITED STATES ARMY IN WORLD WAR II THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN By Charles B. MacDonald P157 General Browning, was "clear and emphatic" to the effect that the division was "not to attempt the seizure of the Nijmegen Bridge until all other missions had been successfully accomplished In his formal order General Browning stated: "The capture and retention of the high ground between Nijmegen and Groesbeck is imperative in order to accomplish the Division's task."
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  538. Bullshit John burns - monty coward away after demanding that debcle. he failed everywhere much like the empire he supposedly served he was worse at commanding than you commenting. Go ask the Euros - shouldn't take you 4 yrs to cross like it did bernard/brooke
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  539. Davie doesn't read he creates - and not very good either from John Frost's book - A Drop Too Many *"We had been given to understand that the key Nijmegen Bridge had been captured by the Guards Armoured Division, and the saga of the river crossing by the U.S. 82nd Airborne in daylight against most formidable opposition was left untold" From Frost when speaking of Patton's 3rd Army (They liberated him), "All ranks of this Army, when they saw our red berets, would say: 'Arnhem. Aye. We'd have gotten through. Yes, sir. We'd have gotten through.' I could not help believing that they would have. There was nothing slow or ponderous about them and they didn't stop for tea or the night for that matter." Those were the words of an Englishman of note. Fascinating. ​ Arnhem.Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, p. 333-Tom Hoare,who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes: *'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings, p.50 Jack Reynolds and his unit, the South Staffords,* were locked into the long, messy, bloody battle. There was no continuous front, no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed. We knew what even a handful of Germans could do - they were so damned efficient. Armageddon:The Battle for Germany, by Max Hastings - Bob Peatling was keeping a diary, to relieve the dreadful boredom. “I am getting fed up with hearing German voices,” he wrote. *"There is no noise of any firing whatever. I can’t make it out. Field-Marshal Montgomery has dropped a clanger at Arnhem Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.”
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  540. XXX Corp made 7 miles the 1st day because of panzerfaust attacks,they were lagging in their so called push.Idiot plan by an ignorant man *https://www.history.com/news/operation-market-garden-failure-allies * But the ground relief column, led by XXX Corps, had run into its own problems: The road toward Arnhem was narrow, only wide enough for two vehicles, and German infantry men wielding Panzerfaust anti-tank weapons picked off the nine lead British tanks right at the start of their advance. Allied ground troops managed to advance only seven miles by the end of the first day.
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  541. yes it's a faulty premise to get his hero off the hook.He takes creative license with actual history
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  542.  @hansenmax2133  unfortunately that was the king of open ended invitations,not orders that IKE gave Monty
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  543. Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.316 Montgomery's performance was no more impressive of than that of Mark Clark. Allied fumbling of the 1st phase of operations in Italy thus had critical consequences for the rest of the campaign
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  544. Johnny - which so called empire fought to the last colonial - ask Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and especially the Irish.Hint the same empire that took 4 years to come back to the continent that it only took 20 days to leave? Tough one Johnny so you might want to ask Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  545. tell us about the burns brigade grabbing some sky at Singapore
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  546. No he didn't,He ignore 70 miles of British cock ups leading up to Nimegen.That XX Corp tanks stopped and went no farther,try reading Dr William Buckingham's book on Arnhem - Monty hatched the plan then doesn't have the common decency to show up for the battle - like a real field marshall Walter Model
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  547. The Vile Ass announced But let us not forget the American contribution...a couple of generations later they produced U-571 fairytale that showed the US getting hold of an Enigma from a German submarine - crucial. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well you started it telling lies that Monty was some kind of a commander - who in any other army would have been sacked - just for bugery.Of course it's seems to slip your memorey the problem of traversing that daunting 30 mile wide channel for 4 yrs or who sailed over 3500 miles in U-Boat infested waters to carry you across
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  548.  @highroller6244  Lyndon CMP who goes by Cornell also use to say this of course it was hollow howl
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  549. john cornell,congratulations on all you have forgotten, Why did the British declare war on Germany by posturing to protect Poland - that they had neither the power nor the will and did nothing to actually defend? A better question, why did the British not put the smackdown on Hitler much earlier, when he was rearming Germany and retaking territories? If they had had courage to act accordingly back then they would have spared the world a war and a humiliating escape in fishing boats. But you don't need to answer any of that, because the answer is obvious​ .After all it was the British & French that forced Germany to sign the Treaty of Versailes paying reparations for a war they didn't start Reparations the British Crown had never paid to ANYONE when they invaded, subjugated and plundered near/far​ like Ireland and India, S. Africa, USA & everyone else they punked around for 350 yrs.
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  550.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  one of history great ifs,many men quietly did their parts and it's usually those guys who win the the conflicts.Even at that time the Afrika Korp had capable air support unlike late '42. So it makes that army's actions all the more impressive
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  551.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  tony I've read 43 books on the war and the personalities involved in the last 5 yrs . IMHO it goes back to Winston being impatient in July early August '42. He insisted on Auchinleck and Dorman - Smith going on the offensive immediately after the 1st victorious grueling battle of El Alamein July1 - July 27 so 4 weeks. As long as Jerry wasn't attacking and how could they as the were shorter on everything than even 8th Army. They(8th Army) immediately went into training two fresh divisions along with planting a massive mine field on the ridge at Alam Halfa - and I forget the tactical importance of that but it did figure in with the terrain. They HAD to resupply,reinforce and refit,the equipment(trucks,tanks,artillery,etc;) - something about sand and moving parts. So Churchill wanted them to move immediately and it simply wasn't practical. He screwed up O'Connor(after his victory) by taking 50,000 of his troops a year earlier moving them to Greece/Crete that proved disasterous in all 3 places. But Churchill forgot that and started meddling in Auchinleck's busness. It was in Correlli Barnett's DESERT GENERALS or "Churchill and the Montgomery Myth" by R.W. Thompson (both informative with sources) that state Churchill sacked them because they both agreed on the afore mentioned process. This was the very thing that infuriated/drove Alan Brooke nuts - read Winston's War or Masters and Commanders on that. Great Statesman but Winston should not have been allowed anywhere around a war room or battle plan. Here is the kicker and it has been stated in all of the books on the Desert campaign that Ive read. Auchinlech/Dorman-Smith stated very candidly,bravely needed 6 weeks to resupply,reinforce and refit - makes perfect sense. So Churchill relieved them and called over General William "Strafer" Gott whose plain got shot down When the Army and Winston then call up Montgomery he tells them he'll take 8 weeks.Which he did Aug13-Oct13) . That really pissed off Winston as he just relieved a winning General who told him that. So Churchill painted himself politically into a corner and couldn't relieve Monty now or the country would call for his head. This is covered very well in in the Desert Generals video on YT with historians Niall Barr,Tim Collins,Corelli Barnett,Nigel Hamilton and a few others just watched it 2 weeks a go and worth another look/listen *https://youtu.be/W4XVMEdghGk* Here it is Churchill and the Montgomery Myth" by R.W. Thompson, p57*​ Auchinleck explained his reasons to Churchill for not committing the green 44th division untrained in the desert and un acclimated.The Prime Minister argued but Auchinleck was adamant.Churchill turned upon Dorman Smith "do you say that too,why don't you use the 44th Division?" *Smith supported his Chief,"the 44th isn't ready,Sir" Because these two officers acted as they did that Morning a division was not squandered and many men's lives were saved, but they set the seal on their own professional doom" wrote John Connell The judgement of Lt.Gen. Brian Horrocks is especially valuable in this context: "as we know the Prime Minister wanted the 8th Army to launch an immediate offensive. It says much for Auchilecks moral courage that ,at this time, when he was convinced that such an offensive would have little chance of success ,and he was under a cloud, he refused to attack until he was satisfied his troops were trained & reorganized. The 44th HC straight from the U.K. with out any desert experience would have been in on this attack. They might well erect a monument to Auchinleck who unquestionably saved them heavy casualties."
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  552. O'Connor didn't have the Torch Landings,ULTRA or Air Supremecy in '41
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  553. Monty wasn't a real Field Marshall like Walter Model. Bernard never even showed up at Monty Garden.Major Tony Hibbert on the BBC docu said you could almost here XXX Corp.Evidently the Germans/Irish Guards/82nd are in agreement - no revision to be had. Great Book Try September Hope and A Magnificent Disaster also From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p145 the Irish Guards were an hour and 11 miles behind when it's tanks rolled into Valkenswaard main square on the night of the 17th, and Horrocks no movement after dark extended this shortfall to 12 hours at a stroke. It remained to be seen if Guards Armored Division would prove capable of moving the following day with sufficient dispatch to make up at least some of the lost time From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p309 at the North end of the Bridge Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Amored Division to push on immediately for Arnhem just 10 miles up the road.Their elation turned toward anger as the growing British force remained immobile. LT Patrick Murphy from 3rd Battalion,504th Regiment climbed aboard Sg Robinson's tank and urged him to move only to be informed by the willing Robinson that he had no orders to do so. Capt.Burris was reportedly so furious he threatened the deputy commander of no.1 Squadron Capt.Peter (Lord) Carrington with his Thompson gun, Carrington dropped inside the tank and locked the hatch. Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp. General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." Gavin did not have an answer for him The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate. yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge.Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points.And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the initiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial The Grenedier Guards and the 2nd Battalion 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment were shortly to pay a high price for Brownings operational ineptitude From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced - From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright, we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair
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  554. So a Man with a PHD is full of it?Had not I got the same thing from other authors you may have a point. How about the Gerries in It Never Snows in September ?Why do you think the 82nd got filleted crossing the Waal. Just so "LORD" Carrington could tell them no dice? Is Lt.Brian Wilson of the Irish Guards or Heinz Harmal of 10 Panzer both full of it? In any other Army the overall commander is responsible right or wrong for what happens but not Bernard? How about Brooke and Ramsay,Tedder and Bedell-Smith pointing right at Monty? And Monty was in fact getting his picture painted and stating that it would make a big stir at Sandhurst's graduation or sumsuch - Hastings,Beevor,Keegan all have wrote it and they leave a bibliography with references. Horrocks also told Tucker/Cook I believe that Guards armor would come up expediently and in force - and none of that occurred This operation was so dis jointed start to finish - it should have never been considered let alone hatched. And what ever your Uncle did after the war doesn't take away from his 1st hand experience in real time.The asshole Monty wanted to keep going afterward. Do you really think if the Allies got to Arnhem Model wouldn't have dropped the bridge?Or 88's open up on it enfilade . As you stated 4 yrs ago the Ruhr was only 2 lefts/rights there & back On one of these boards- a poster who was in the US Army in Germany during 1970's NATO said in joint exercises while in a helicopter right over some British Tanks under trees he couldn't see the tanks(nor did he know their where abouts).Not with out thermal radar enhancement could the crews see them. Which obviously wasn't available in the '40s. So what Brian Urquhart stated was very plausible and very likely factual either by pictures or radio dispatches. Don't join the group think here. As Patton stated "if everyone is thinking alike than someone isn't thinking" From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticized Montgomery freely Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem Center of Military History United States Army The European Theater of Operations THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN by Charles B. MacDonald page 439 "Even before the invasion Allied planners had noted that "until after the development of Antwerp, the availability of port capacity will limit the forces which can be maintained." Getting Antwerp was one of the main reasons why Eisenhower had strengthened Montgomery's northern thrust." From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 244 I put the responsibility for the operation squarely on the shoulders of Montgomery,who launched it then refused to listen to anyone who wished to modify a bad plan.Finally,he made the incredible statement that the operation was 90% successful.- Brian Urquhart,2003 Lt Gen Browning to Maj Gen G. E. Prier-Palmer, British Joint Services Mission, Washington, D.C., 25 Jan 55, excerpt in OCMH "I personally gave an order to Jim Gavin that, although every effort should be made to effect the capture of the Grave and Nijmegen Bridges as soon as possible, it was essential that he should capture the Groesbeek Ridge and hold it—for … painfully obvious reasons …. If this ground had been lost to the enemy the operations of the 2nd Army would have been dangerously prejudiced as its advance across the Waal and Neder Rhein would have been immediately outflanked. Even the initial advance of the Guards Armoured Division would have been prejudiced and on them the final outcome of the battle had to depend."
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  555. re read what i wrote,I know who your uncle was,years ago i saw a video he was lecturing or interviewed at Cal Berkley. He wasn't happy then about what transpired - in his own words Go watch the Desert Generals on YT Dr Niall Barr,Tim Collins,Corelli Barnett,Nigel Hamilton. I'd link it but they get bounced. Anyway The 82nd,The Germans,Irish Guards all stated the Guards Amored tanks sat they were there . Weak sauce blaming vetted sources because you don't like their findings I'm not a MacArthur or Clark fan either. Guys like O'Connor,Collins,Middleton,Krueger,Slim,Simmonds were much better than those knobs. Monty was shyt and almost cost an alliance and in fact did after the war. Actual participants were sourced and you question the guys quoting them? But Poulussen/Neilands write rags 70 yrs later and that gets traction?LMAO. As you told Cornell I'm a user not a pusher. All these guys full of it c'mon you've been converted by carnival barkers if you believe that. Beevors Books were released 3 -4 months before I could read it here state side. Hardly pandering to the American Market It's called research evidently the British like everyone to take their word for it. Right now I'm reading Winston's War by Hastings - very balanced .I had read Overlord/Armageddon also - I recommend them. Read Willaim Weidner - Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap very well sourced. Again Monty may have been shot had Brooke not punched his ticket You throw credible evidence under the table to rescue a questionable commander.Prove them wrong,America has nothing to do with the fact the BEF didn't cross their own channel in 4 years. Does the UK always have blame assigned before your allies arrive? 3 miles in Monty's plan was getting blasted by Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans. TIK's hive of hallucination is one big echo chamber. There is a Dutch Poster on here somewhere who lived along the HighWay and studied the battle here is what he said. Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come?How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT do the same ?Not in September, not in October and not in November how come indeed
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  556. Good Post last sentence sounds like Corporate America, IMO Monty may have wanted O'Connor out from under him before/during/after OMG. Lumsden sounds perhaps a bit like Walter Krueger - MacArthur situation have to look him up. Just curious why wouldn't Winnie leave The Auk alone and delegate his other responsibilities and skirt protocol specially after 1st Alamein - improvise and go with what's working. Like Patton supposedly said “Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results.” Your statement We can argue about the problems of the peter principle and whether this is a good system - but I know of no army that ever allowed a commander to take a subordinate command without it being taken as a severe sacking. Sounds alot like what happened with the Pacific Fleet command Admiral Husband Kimmel -after Pearl he was removed and paved the way for Nimitz,who evidently turned down that command a few yrs earlier because others had rank and Seniority. Kimmel was the fall guy and there should have been enough rope to go around. FDR ordered Nimitz out there
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  557. Courtesy of Answers Questions down thread In his 1947 book Airborne Warfare page 75, about Browning. Have people stopped reading books? July Letter 1945: Dear Captain Westover: Your letter of July 17th to my Chief of Staff, regarding operation MARKET, has come to my attention. First, let me say that I am very glad to find the Theater Historian's Office taking a close interest in this operation. Those of us who participated in the operation consider it a model airborne show. I have had the good fortune to be present at the planning of most of our operations in the ETO and to have participated in four of them. The 82d Airborne Division's participation in MARKET was well conceived and very well planned considering the short time available (6 days). The mechanics of its execution were almost perfect. The entire operation was conducted on an extremely marginal scale. I do not believe that one battalion less could have done the job, and if the Germans had committed one good battalion more at any point of our perimeter we would have been in serious difficulty. We, therefore, appreciate your interest in the operation and any of my Staff will be only too glad to try to answer any questions you may have at any time. For the objective of the 82d Airborne Division, I advise you to check the Operations Order of the British Airborne Corps. I quote the 82d's mission: "The 82d Airborne Division will seize and hold the bridges at Nijmegen and Grave (with sufficient bridgeheads to pass formations of the Second Army through). The capture and retention of the high ground between Nijmegen and Grosbeek is imperative in order to accomplish the division's task." This mission, of course, was discussed at great length with the British Airborne Corps Commander. About two weeks prior to receipt of the mission by the 82d Airborne Division, it had been planned that General Urquhart's British Airborne Div's would do the job. They had, therefore, devoted considerable study to intelligence reports and to the terrain. The Nijmegen-Grosbeek high ground was the only high ground in all of the Netherlands. With it in German hands, physical possession of the bridges would be absolutely worthless, since it completely dominated the bridges and all the terrain around it. The understanding was therefore reached with British Corps Headquarters that it would be absolutely imperative that this high ground be seized 13 September 1944: 82nd Field Order No.11, 508th will “Seize, organise and hold key terrain features in area of responsibility, and be prepared to seize Waal Crossing at Nijmegen on order of Div Comdr”
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  558. Cherry picking creatively leaving out 13 September 1944: 82nd Field Order No.11, 508th will “Seize, organize and hold key terrain features in area of responsibility, and be prepared to seize Waal Crossing at Nijmegen on order of Div Comdr” Who's the Commander, You ask UNITED STATES ARMY IN WORLD WAR II The European Theater of Operations THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN By Charles B. MacDonald CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY UNITED STATES ARMY WASHINGTON, D.C., 1993 P157 General Browning, was "clear and emphatic" to the effect that the division was "not to attempt the seizure of the Nijmegen Bridge until all other missions had been successfully accomplished In his formal order General Browning stated: "The capture and retention of the high ground between Nijmegen and Groesbeck is imperative in order to accomplish the Division's task Monty/IKE/Horrocks own it.1st Para get slaughtered they're gallant,82nd get slaughtered and blamed.Sorry Graebners 9th got across before Frost arrived at the Bridge.Not his fault,just like the 101 getting a Bridge blown right in front of them,so called able minds at the top let down the boys in baggy pants. Carrington should never have led men in battle and damn sure not referred to as "LORD".And as you probably know Bernard was getting his picture painted.The fact Guards Armor didn't cross until 7:00Pm the 20th and god knows where the 43 Wessex was One group wanted to carry the fight forward another sat - this we know.Enemy gets a vote have to adjust accordingly. It appears Monty shrunk from responsibility, sad fact is he never appeared at all AGAIN From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced - Their words
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  559. Dave Rendall - Horrocks had said Guards Armoured would come over in full force and on time. Well neither happened and the Airborne foot soldiers were left to take on APCs/Halftracks with mounted MG42s and self propelled 20 mm Anti aircraft guns. A real Field Marshall (not Monty) would have seen this coming but how could he as he never even showed up.The 82nd got attacked from the city, on the heights were the landing zones were and from across the bridge from Victor Graebners 9 SS .As Helmuth von Moltke stated “No Plan survives first contact with the enemy.” I like the way Mike Tyson said it “Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth.” Any way Monty had absolutely no plan "B" he was in fact a Moron who couldn't conceive how anything could go wrong. And IKE is culpable for not having the balls to tell the urchin to sit down and shut up. Montgomery and IKE own this not the soldiers who were misled That quote about Browning was from 1955,not '66 or '93 - simply sourced by them. Had the Bernard actually been there then maybe he could have tidy'd up the battle Field Unlike a real Field Marshall Walter Model he chose to get lost. You've deflected everything presented ignoring Germans there,Irish Guards there,GIs there, I'm sure they colluded years ago to confound you. All those are full of shyt - US Army archives? Everything presented? - your insight is provincial revision, I have much more but you appear to have made your mind up regardless of evidence to the contrary. Hell somewhere I left Ramsay/Tedder/Brooke comments regarding this debacle The truth is you give those toffy nosed bastards like Carrington/Monty a pass for their many cock ups leading up to and including Nijmegen. Look up the Vandeleurs and the walk abouts. This plan was a disjointed abortion from the beginning losing 9 Sherman's in the 1st 3 miles to Panzerfaust teams. Robert Kershaw wrote the book It never Snows in September and has an interview on YT - look it up.....or not. I'm sure I made up the fact there were almost twice as many flights as Overlord for Monty Garden. Flights were also longer and days shorter - much Why didn't "LORD" Carrington use his tank radio and call ahead to the Irish Guards who were supporting the Waal River Crossing ( 10 tanks I've read)- tell them it's a no go then? instead of letting GIs getting slaughtered and not Tommies - guess it depends on whose OX is getting gored. Ring me up when you write your novel and get vetted/peer reviewed.
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  560. Student and Model somehow made due and it isn't the 82nd's problem or fault Monty couldn't this,Monty couldn't that - show them respect. And Monty flat out was disrespectful and took creative license regardless of the consequence to others. If you watched the Desert Generals,Dr Niall Barr,Corelli Barnett,Tim Collins brought that ought and made that clear. And I'm not sure who got over 1st,there are many on these boards that state those tanks crossed 1st attempting to foist the responsibility on someone other than ole Union Jack. It could have been simultaneously if that's the case "LORD" gets a pass - as does the 82nd.Either way Carrington knew Arnhem was the destination and he stopped based on one Gun as over 51 GIs KIA - they didn't have a tank to hide in just canvas boats!!!. Kershaw's book and the Gerries Heinz Harmel stated the Tanks sat and could have made Arnhem. What happens then/there is they meet everything Model was reeling in from the Reich and it wouldn't have been good.Or Walter simply drops the bridge which BTW would have been simply a noose the Allied advance would be sticking their necks thru. This misadventure shouldn't even have been contemplated
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  561.  @nickdanger3802  exactly Nick ,conveniently picking up where the Crown's lads were kicking the curb. As Oddball SOK a Dutch poster opined who lived where the battle was fought and he studied it Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come? How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT DO THE SAME ? Not in September, not in October and not in November Probably ,IMO because unlike Monty -,Model was an actual Field Marshall
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  562. So Dave goes on a pub crawl 49 yrs after the battle with the lads from the BEF pointing out for one reason or another why he speculates some of the GI objectives were not met. And admits the Heights are a dominating feature - thanks for that smashing bit of insight. Can't seem to remember the fact the Tommies were indeed tumbling along because I'm not seeing alot. Only part of 82nd landed the 1st day,many more came in with Artillery and supplies the following 2 days . It's GIs fault 4 Tanks show up on the 3rd day crossing the Nijmegen Bridge and maybe out of ammo ? He's going to have to try harder .Like the plan was shit and it's author not around. We know were Model/Student were,how about Monty?Biggest Para drop in history up until that point and somehow he couldn't be inconvenienced to bother popping in? Also I stated/quoted previously that Dave forgets/ignores Browning made his statement about ordering Gavin in 1955 - it's sourced - his words Did Dave run up and back down the Groesbeek Heights carrying Mortar tubes?the smallest being the M2 that weighed 42 lbs,I reckon you'd have to tote along some ammo too. If you want to step up in class to the preferred M-1mortar a 44.5-pound tube, a 46.5-pound mount, and a 45-pound base plate,the total package is almost 100-pounds heavier than the 60mm mortar but it had a 3,000 yd range - bitch lugging it though .How about carrying M30s/M50s over his shoulder? As the drop zones were attacked twice?ON FOOT?Then back down again? And realize the 9th SS had indeed crossed the Nijmegen Bridge in APCs/Halftracks/ Kübelwagen’s the APCs had mounted MG-42s,halftracks had 20mm AA guns mounted and some self propelled. With units fighting in Nijmegen City,the Bridge ,the Heights - reality exists and the enemy gets a vote The Second World War by John Keegan p. 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary Max Hastings, The SECRET WAR, Spies, Ciphers, and Guerrillas 1939 -1945 p. 495* “The little British field-marshal’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence, and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944.The same overconfidence was responsible for the launch of the doomed airborne assault in Holland on 17 September, despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, together with Field-Marshal Walter Model’s headquarters at Oosterbeek. Had ‘victory fever’ not blinded Allied commanders, common sense dictated that even drastically depleted SS panzers posed a mortal threat to lightly armed and mostly inexperienced British airborne units. Ultra on 14-15 September also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force 70 miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armor, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. The decision to launch Operation Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation. As General David Fraser recalled "Nevertheless I remember the impressive silhouette of the long bridge across the Maas (Meuse) at Grave. This had been captured by the American airborne troops and took us across the first main water obstacle at about ten o’clock in the morning of 19th September. By then the operation had been running for over forty hours and was already well behind schedule."
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  563. History points to it,not that that you'd be interested accuracy just the british version of it
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  564. Monty debacles at Caen,Falaise and Market Garden had forced the GIs to go straight thru the Sigfired Line.Something Monty couldn't do
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  565. Think you meant fantasizing Comedian.He'll never write a book because 1)Actuall historians will shatter his mythology 2) His slappies are to cheap to buy a book 3) Why when he can stay here and throw as much shit against the wall as he wants and be hailed for his carnival barking of the crown's comics
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  566. As Bradley said, Montgomery rarely won a battle any other competent general wouldn't have won as well or better. Gelb also notes, that Montgomery was not only famously insensitive and deliberately insulting to his brothers in arms, but he was capable of outright lies if he thought it would elevate him above potential rivals -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Born General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success
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  567. @ninjakid6 it had nothing to do with his ability to command - it is a fact monty never understood mobile,mechanical warfare.The Only time him and Patton were on the same patch of land Patton left him in the wake on Sicily.Britain had some fine officers that pratt wasn't one of them
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  568. @ninjakid6 TIK is a fanboy and a British Nationalist.Again I left you some of Britain's finest Historians TIK isn't amongst them. I time stamped this at 26:20 DrNial Barr taught is a Professor at King's College,Corelli Barnett is one of the foremost authorities on the desert war. Watch at least the rest of the video - it tells the truth https://youtu.be/a1QapjJzTRE?t=1580
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  569. @ninjakid6 look you are a monty nutthugger read the authors I left I also left a video to watch.Did you watch it or are you too tired reaching for another beer? It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction
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  570. @ninjakid6 he didn't and because you aren't well read on the matter isn't my problem. It seems you and history have but a fleeting acquaintance.Did you read Beevor,Hastings,Keegan,Kershaw,Bennett,Barnett,Hart,Barr,McManus,Weidner - did you watch that Desert general Video? British author of Military History, Max Hastings, states the following in his recent book, The SECRET WAR, Spies, Ciphers, and Guerrillas 1939 -1945 referring to Field Marshal Montgomery on page 495 “The little British field-marshal’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence, and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944.The same overconfidence was responsible for the launch of the doomed airborne assault in Holland on 17 September, despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, together with Field-Marshal Walter Model’s headquarters at Oosterbeek. Had ‘victory fever’ not blinded Allied commanders, common sense dictated that even drastically depleted SS panzers posed a mortal threat to lightly armed and mostly inexperienced British airborne units. Ultra on 14-15 September also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force eighty miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armour, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. The decision to launch Operation Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation
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  571. ninjakid6 - good no sense in blaming the 82nd Airborne who fought valiently then.Plenty points right at Monty and IKE From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 281 Montgomery monitored the battle through liaison officers and radio reports. He had neither visited the battlefield at Market Garden nor seen his field commanders;he was having his portrait painted,again and seemed intranced by the experience,boasting that his likeness would "create a tremendous sensation at next year's Academy." Yet at 10:50 PM on wednesday he felt confident enough of the view from Brussels to cable Eisenhower: Things are going to work out alright...the British airborne division at Arnhem has been having a bad time but their situation should be eased now that we can adv- ance northwards from Nijmegen to their support. There is a sporting chance that we should capture the bridge at Arnhem. In the subsequent message to Brooke, he added, "I regard the general situation on the rivers as now very satisfactory" This assessment was nothing less than hallucinatory. Despite the valor at Nijmegen,any "sporting chance" to take the Arnhem Bridge had passed. Things in Holland were not going to work out,even if the high command did not yet know it .As XXX Corps account later acknowledged, "in front,on the flanks,and in the rear,all was not well." The Second World War by John Keegan,page 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary.
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  572.  @orcinus6802  he wasn't procrastinating,the 82nd had the most objectives spread out the farthest.And Browning ordered the Heights held - which makes sense there were supply drops for 3 staright days .It was the mongoloid monty's plan,it came apart everywhere.Model and Student against Monty,might as well been Attila and Ghengis vs Tinkerbell.LMAO
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  573. Um no Monty's D-day objective was caen.That was drawn up during Operation Thunderclap.And Bradley never said that,you are pulling a John Burns rearranging content to your liking
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  574. No he didn't Bernard wanted to play keep away with provisions - that way he wouldn't look bad as his contemptible command skills showed during Normandy .IKE wasn't sidelining Patton and General Devers - both taking more ground and capturing more Gerries than Bernard while he potsed - he asked for and got Monty Garden
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  575. Monty Garden Bernard faffed this to hell and back,promised he'd be in Berlin and never made Arnhem. Walter Model and Kurt Student against Monty is like Attila and Ghengis vs Tinkerbell
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  576.  @nspr9721  what is the name of this film?Sounds interesting
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  577. Johnny ring the nurses station you are realizing hallucinations again. Patton could have closed the Gap in Falaise but Monty couldn't bare getting upstaged again
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  578. Shut your lying hole even his Boss Alan Brooke and SHAEF blamed him.Get a life you poor trampled leaf .Do you sniff from the same tube of glue as cornhole? Monty was all hat and no cattle as they say in Texas.SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  579.  @southerncross86  they were there to chaperone the NAZI's out
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  580. Why cause the prince once joined the party many people were fooled in 1934. You haven't voted for some arses at one time or another - the Dutch Army advisors said don't take the single elevated lane - which of course made perfect sense.
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  581. John Keegan wrote Monty's rigidity, slowness, narrow-mindedness and inability to evolve his military ideas beyond First World War tactics were evident. In fact, Brooke and Alexander were frequently exasperated with him, among other British commanders. Not entirely clear to me is why he was kept on - supposedly he was beloved by British citizens but that is a poor excuse for keeping on an inept commander when the case is made that better generals were waiting in the wings. Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb,page 409 There were many reasons why Montgomery was being effectively downgraded once more Eisenhower had no doubt any longer that his reputation as a battle-winning commander was greatly inflated.The experience at Caen,Antwerp,Arnhem and delays in following up the Ardennes assault and the excessively thorough build up for the Rhine crossing provided sufficient evidence for that. General Whitely . IKE's British Deputy Chief of Operations,said the feeling at Allied HQs "was that if anything was to be done quickly,don't give it to Monty. Monty was the last person that would be chosen to drive on Berlin - he would have needed 6 months to prepare". Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb,p.331 Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 318 Eisenhower thought Montgomery was a psychopath suffering from an inferiority complex Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 317 Montgomery got along with neither the Americans nor the Canadians. After Dunkirk the French absolutely refused to serve under a British commander.Such widespread mistrust of the little British General did not bode well for future Allied operations in which Monty played a role. For a host of reasons Montgomery's usefulness came to an end in Normandy,probably with in a few weeks of the invasion.Any other British General could have done as well as Montgomery did at Caen;and very few would have handled the Battle of the Falaise Gap so incompetently Arnhem,Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes: 'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle. There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed
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  582. We do - you make crap up,you have to as your hero was a steaming pile not unlik your self.
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  583. Folly of the Generals is a very well thought-out effort and is also a detailed critique of the entire Allied high command strategy in western Europe in 1944. David Colley presents specific points on what might have been accomplished and where. Details the American penetration of the Siegfried Line in mid-September and how their advance into Germany at Wallendorf would have succeeded .The once stout Panzer Lehr Division was a far cry from a division. It consisted only of a panzer grenadier battalion of company strength, an engineer company,six 105-mm. howitzers, five tanks, a reconnaissance platoon, and an Alarmbataillon (emergency alert battalion) of about 200 men recruited from stragglers and soldiers on furlough in Trier. That was all left from the strategic & tactical bombing of the Falaise Pocket In the feeble hands of units like these had rested German hopes of holding the Allies beyond the West Wall long enough . The German Officers interviewed later couldn't believe their luck when the the advance was called back to fuel Monty's debacle - shameful really. The high command of either Eisenhower and certainly Montgomery was pretty much rigid,static and unimaginative. They didn't take advantage of opportunities to advance toward and across the Rhine in September of 1944. While Monty was dithering at Falaise or mismanaging affairs around Arnhem that were poorly planned and more ineptly executed .They also poorly deployed forces and reinforced those failures instead of sending men and materials (especially gasoline and ammunition) to points that might have made a significant difference. Like crossing the Rhine at several other places that were available to them in/around September 15th with troops already there - mainly Hodges 1st US Army with Gen.Gerow's V Corp and Gen "Lightning Joe" Collins VII Corp . Colley presents specific details on what might have been accomplished and where. The British Chief's of Staff should have put Montgomery in his place. His meager misguided efforts that had extended the war by many months
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  584. John Cornell cackled The Americans failed in the Lorraine and Hurtgen Forest. They went nowhere fast. Market Garden moved 100 km closer to Germany in just 3 days. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- .It still took Monty 6 months with the US 1st & 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time.They didn't end up in the channel or bark they were 90% successful - that was revolting I'm sure you'd agree
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  585. The Village Anus is Monty's little swiss boy
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  586.  @paulszymanski3091  Tell him Paul,Johnny Boy fetches much of his material from his ample backside
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  587. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2IArekP8ws cornhole you are pathetic From Tony Hibbert not the cornhole chronicles.Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 319 Montgomery's irrational behavior at the Falaise Gap was also influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman..." Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 318 Eisenhower thought Montgomery was a psychopath suffering from an inferiority complex Montgomery,Making of a General,by Nigel Hamilton,page 278 Montgomery's stepson John Carver talked about his "....schizoid tendencies engendered by his upbringing..." Cornhole,Your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones .One almost needs a bucket when you post! So Brooke,Ramsey,Keegan and Tedder are full of shit but you a monty nutthugger are to be believed.LMAO - say that out loud and see how it sounds From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303*Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant,Doubleday & Co,1st American edition, copyright 1959.From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10thPanzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact.Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" Even John Keegan The Second World War by John Keegan,page 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable,since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp.Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary.On 10 September he secured Eisenhowers assent to the plan Cornhole are you Monty's little Swiss Boy?
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  588. The only time Rommel had anything equal DUNKIRK occured
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  589. His armies?Camped out for 43 days while IKE sent every freaking bomb to help him.The Russians and GIs were so good they could carry a handicap like him
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  590. Fan Boi Burns you are depriving some poor village of its idiot. Your distortions have been so badly battered about they belong next to one of Monty's military plans. You and Bernard have something in common,neither of you were at Monty Garden. You and IKE have something in common too - neither of you were driven of the continent and into the sea
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  591. Ah the Lyndon Library spouting nonsense,Monty was a foot dragging laggard his single thrust thru an area of flooded ditches,polder marshes and flood plains proved disasterous. The single lane much of it elevated proved a shooting gallery. Only a bent freak would try it so i see why in your land of make believe you would like it .Monty would still be on the White Cliffs of Dover had the Reds and GIs not got involved - just ask your alter ego John Cornell
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  592. Lyndon you lump at least we haven't changed our name. You loused up the other account so bad Monty would have been proud. You and Monty are/were uppity little nothings brushed away rather easily. Monty was about Winston's 6th choice i believe after Stafer Gott's plane was shot down. Gott/O'Connor/Auchinleck/Slim all more able and qualified than the bent freak Bernard,much more .Now grab your loofah and jump into the Channel and Bernard will be by to give you the FULL MONTY, can't make that shit up
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  593. Monty would still be on the White Cliffs of Dover had the Reds and GIs not got involved. Winston took everything he could from the USA but a red hot stove
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  594. Jean Pierre Burns From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" *https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml * At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From With Prejudice, Air Marshall Tedder,p.586 Eisenhower's firm commitment to the Anglo-American Alliance dominated his thinking. He handled Allied disagreements in Normandy, at the Falaise Gap and for Market-Garden the same way. Eisenhower was determined to protect the facade of Allied unity at the highest levels of the Allied command in spite of Montgomery's insubordination which was motivated by both personal and political objectives. Eisenhower's efforts to cover up Montgomery's lies in Normandy drew praise from his British second in command, Lord Tedder: "One of the most disturbing features of the campaign ... had been the uninhibited boosting at home (England) of the British Army at the expense of the Americans. I ... fear that this process was sowing the seeds of a grave split between the Allies. For the moment, the Americans were being extremely reticent and generous, largely on account of Eisenhower's fine attitude." From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co.1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944,Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  595. British author of Military History, Max Hastings, states the following in his recent book, The SECRET WAR, Spies, Ciphers, and Guerrillas 1939 -1945 referring to Field Marshal Montgomery on page 495 “The little British field-marshal’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence, and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944.The same overconfidence was responsible for the launch of the doomed airborne assault in Holland on 17 September, despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, together with Field-Marshal Walter Model’s headquarters at Oosterbeek. Had ‘victory fever’ not blinded Allied commanders, common sense dictated that even drastically depleted SS panzers posed a mortal threat to lightly armed and mostly inexperienced British airborne units. Ultra on 14-15 September also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force eighty miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armour, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. The decision to launch Operation Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation.
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  596. Das Deutsches Afrika-Korps:Seige und Niederlage .By Hanns-Gert Von Esebeck,p.188 Returning from North Africa with an inflated ego after the comparatively easy defeat of the German Africa Corps, he considered himself to be the greatest commander ever. Later information has revealed that he inflated the number of German casualties to improve his image. At El Alamein he claimed that there were more German casualties than there were German troops all together on the actual front! Arnhem. Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco, as he calls it) when he writes: ‘It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’
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  597. Bernard never showed up for this debacle and the armoured column got stopped 3 miles from the start - educate yourself Little Villa.Fortunately the Europeans were used to Monty's cock ups Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success" Page 331 Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen
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  598. Blowhole Burns,Have Monty give you a bubble bath,perhaps you'll feel better .Moscow wasn't going to risk associating with rable rousers.Stalin wasn't going to chance losing all the supplies coming from the West,much of it Sailing from the west coast over the northern Pacific route
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  599. Good Post thanx
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  600.  @nickdanger3802  not sure if you have seen this podcast much more accurate than here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amo1f1_Hvho&t=557s
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  601. Little Villa are you Lucian Trueb Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  602. Monty wasn't a real Field Marshall like Walter Model. Bernard never even showed up at Monty Garden - like you
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  603. Don't take this board for it's word the Germans there/then 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p.215 Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit:The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked *"the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us."* 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. 'Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'*It was a lost chance* "It Never Snows in September" by Robert J. Kershaw,p.129 Capt Viktor Graebner had a mixture of 22 Armoured vehicles at his disposal,APCs and half tracks some of which mounted 75 mm guns.They represented the highest concentration of armoured vehicles in the 9 SS.All at the minimum,possesed a machine gun mount 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 141 German defenses put 2 - 20 mm cannon placed at the access points of both bridges (rail & road) able to fire across and mutually support each other 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p.143 18 September,south of Grave from Schijndel towards the station at Erde S.W of Veghel.General Student "I was able to observe a flak platton attached from the Reichsarbeitsdienst who fired with both their 88 guns at a single American Paratroopers sniping from high buildings,harassing our attack from the flanks 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p.194 both the 82nd Airborne and British Guards Armored were aware they were up against seasoned SS troops of about 500 that held the road held the road bridge. They were supported by an 88 mm gun on the traffic circle and 4 - 47 mm and a 37 mm with mortars in the Hunner Park. SS Capt.Schwappacher was supproting battle groups "when ever the enemy was ready to advance onto the bridge we hit them with the full impact of an artillary barrage which immediately halted the attacks where upon out infantry,reinforced were ble to to maintain their positions so reality exists,Bad British Planning 'It never Snows in September' by Robert J.Kershaw,map reference pages 192-193 The German Defense of Nijmegan 17-20 September 1944.The KampfgruppeHenke initially established a line of defense outposts based on the two traffic circles south of the railway and road bridges on 17 September.The 10SS Kampfgruppe Reinhold arrived and established the triangular defense with Euling on the road bridge,Henke and other units defending the approaches of the railway bridge,and his own Kampfgruppe on the home bank in the village of Lent.A surprise assault river crossing by the U.S. 3/504 combined with a tank assault on the road bridge on 20 September unhinged the defense. The Waal had been secured by 1900.There was nothing further barring the road to Arnhem 17 kilometers to the North
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  604. Katrina another of Monty's apologists pokes their head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan
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  605. Idiot he states britsh pre war planning - from the states much of it thru cash carry
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  606.  @nickdanger3802  Tell VILE the to stop accessing his ample backside.Denial and revision aren't acceptable answers.Specially when quoted from Parliament.WE should be charging VILE for this From a professor who lectured at Sandhurst and is Employed at King's College Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 116 Britain's war effort even after just one year of conflict - had placed an intolerable burden upon her finances and her future was now in the hands of The United States of America.Without American aid and assistance above and beyond the commercial basis of "cash and carry",Britain would not be able to continue the War. https://www.e-education.psu.edu/egee120/book/export/html/237 Americans Fuel Britain’s War Needs The two critical questions of importance to Britain for war with the Germans were whether oil would be available and if they could pay for it. *The United States was responsible for two-thirds of total world production and, therefore, the answer to whether oil would be available was yes. To help Britain overcome the question of payment on March 1941, the Lend Lease was instituted. This removed the problem of finance as a constraint on American supply to Britain, since, with the Lend Lease, American oil could now be lent and repaid later. The neutrality legislation which had placed restrictions on the shipment of supplies was also gradually lifted to help loosen restrictions on shipment of supplies to Britain. Thus, by spring 1941, all the important steps had been taken to ensure adequate flow of oil from America to Britain Although there were temporary shortages, there was never a serious oil supply crisis in the US . The overall production record in the US was quite good - from 1940-1945, America’s overall production increased by 30% from 3.7 million barrels per day to 4.7 million barrels per day. Meanwhile, between December 1941 and August 1945, the Allies consumed 7 billion barrels of oil, 6 billion of which came from the United States It is also interesting to note that the wartime oil output was more than ¼ of all oil produced in the US from the time of Colonel Drake to 1941! 8https://www.historians.org/about-aha-and-membership/aha-history-and-archives/gi-roundtable-series/pamphlets/em-13-how-shall-lend-lease-accounts-be-settled-(1945)/how-muc* Why couldn’t Britain pay? Just exactly what was Britain’s ability to keep on with cash payments in December 1940? She had entered the war in September 1939 with about 4.5 billion dollars of gold and investments in securities in the United States. Most of these belonged to private British citizens and British companies. During the first year of the war the British government had bought these holdings from its citizens, paying for them in British government bonds. Then it sold the securities and gold reserves for dollars, and pooled the whole amount in one fund. This process produced a supply of dollars on this side with which Britain could purchase war goods in the United States. From September 1939 to the end of 1940 the British managed to realize some 2 billion dollars—in addition to the 4.5 billion dollars mentioned above—from sales of gold newly mined in the British Empire, from exports, and other sources. But this additional amount had been spent in 1940 for war purchases, chiefly in the United States. Thus, by December 1940, the British supply of dollars was down to about 2 billion. About 1.5 billion of this would be needed to pay for munitions and supplies already ordered in the United States but not yet delivered. So low was Britain’s dollar reserve that new orders for war goods had almost stopped at the time when she needed them most. The job placed before Congress was to provide the country with a law that would meet the situation in spirit and in fact. It required an epoch-making decision on policy and the setting up of machinery to provide the needed help in ships, planes, tanks, guns, food, and other supplies. No American will think it wrong of me if I proclaim that to have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. I could not foretell the course of events. I do not pretend to have measured the marshall might of Japan, but now at this very moment I knew the United States was in the war up to the neck and in to the death. So we had won after all!” Said by Churchill after Pearl Harbor. "Now they say that the allies never helped us, but it can't be denied that the Americans gave us so many goods without which we wouldn't have been able to form our reserves and continue the war," Soviet General Georgy Zhukov said after the end of the War. "We didn’t have explosives, gunpowder. We didn’t have anything to charge our rifle cartridges with. The Americans really saved us with their gunpowder and explosives.” "I want to tell you what, from the Russian point of view, the president and the United States have done for victory in this war," Stalin said. "The most important things in this war are the machines.... The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through Lend-Lease, we would have lost the war."
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  607. 😆😎
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  608.  @jbjones1957  gues what the post i just responded to was 15 hrs old yet I'm getting here at around 8:30 PM,Hmm no problem on the other boards
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  609.  @jbjones1957  he just deleted another response ,catch you on another board
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  610. The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp.He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later
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  611. So you quote Wilmont who spent the war with who? A rock of journalistic integrity you are Little Villa.And Pick up Ryan's book,you'll notice pictures of him with the American/british/German officers and soldiers he interviewed
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  612. He didn't get the RAF Air Cover that the Pedo received - idiot
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  613. Even monty couldn't screw up in the desert,but he tried
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  614. John Burns - isn't that cute putting diamonds next next to his own carnival barking and attempting to pass it off as fact to get the surly snot off of the hook isn't going to fly.AGAIN quit pulling history from your ample backside. From September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 4"When Eisenhower strayed from his Broad Front Advance and gave Montgomery permission to launch Market-Garden,he made his worst decision of the war .Market Garden was a bad idea because it took the focus off of Antwerp - and Antwerp mattered the most.Without the necessary supplies,the Allies had no chance of sustaining a victorious push into Germany. In essence Market Garden was based on Hope.Hope that Nazi-Germany was just about finished,hope that the weather would hold,hope that all bridges would be captured intact,hope that all the equipment would work properly.Hope that most of the German opposition would be over-aged invalids The Second World War by John Keegan,page 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable,since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp*Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary From With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force,Lord Tedder,Deputy Supreme Commander AEF,Cassel & Co,1st edition, copyright 1966,Page 599 "Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal. From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959 From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219 ...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area With their Recon Battalions intact.Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside"
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  615. CORRECT,He was a propped up fraud and rode everyone else's accumulative hard work to a headline.Until the truth unraveled and it was obvious his command abilities were greatly exaggerated as IKE later figured out​. Eisenhower went too far making political concessions to a very limited military partner. The USA's involvement was military in nature - it meant the Destruction of the Reich. While Churchill, Brooke and Monty wished for political gains that wanted to restore it's previous empire in the Mediterranean and elsewhere and also attempted to use US Military might to further that agenda .An Empire that once exercised it's Imperial whims on the very country that it was hanging it's hopes on The evidence was the yodeling chode Monty again ran advantages into the sand with his unimaginative schemes,a gross underestimation of the enemy and a serious misjudgment of the terrain and unwillingness to show up and direct like an actual Field Marshall - Walter Model.
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  616. BTT :body-green-covering-eyes: don't lie - IKE stopped both Devers 6th army group and Bradley's 12th to give him priority he even bragged about it. Monty failed at Caen the excuses come out .He fails at Market Garden even more of the same. Damn glad the GIs were not at Dunkirk he'd blame them instead of the French/Dutch/Belgians who were taking bullets as Bernard took to the boats Anothe fine British Historian A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans.But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led Montgomery to ask for more supplies.When he got them, he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Canadian Gen.Harry Crerar wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions. He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays.
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  617. MONTY GARDEN
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  618. Relatively weak,The British had 1400 casualties and 200 killed absolutely smashing. Big Boys got it sorted after traveling 3500 miles to pull your chestnuts out of the fire. Go to Mark Felton's Board GIs even thru Monty into their cage - that's some funny shyt whiney waif screamed like a cat in a fan belt
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  619.  @seventhson27  Exactly some of todays revisionists and unread slappies all think they deserve participation trophies
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  620. Ryan talked to more German/British/Americans/Dutch officers/men than anyone not at Nuremberg. Read his two books - there is an abundance of pictures of actual participants he interviewed.Unlike Poulussen/Neilands/Sullivan 70 yrs later and after the fact
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  621. TIK your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved. This debacle was lost because of Monty didn't have the balls to show up and direct like an actual Field Marshall Modell and XXX Corp sloth . Perhaps your secondary school instructors can interest you in military history.Monty faffed up everything he touched he was back at his caravan playing with bunnies,birds and based on the FULL MONTY - some of the lads Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: "Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. we might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine." Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02.General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb,page 409 There were many reasons why Montgomery was being effectively downgraded once more .Eisenhower had no doubt any longer that his reputation as a battle-winning commander was greatly inflated.The experience at Caen,Antwerp,Arnhem and delays in following up the Ardennes assault and the excessively thorough build up for the Rhine crossing provided sufficient evidence for that.General Whitely . IKE's British Deputy Chief of Operations,said the feeling at Allied HQs "was that if anything was to be done quickly,don't give it to Monty. Monty was the last person that would be chosen to drive on Berlin - he would have needed 6 months to prepare" Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion.Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery;based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for Monty was very weak.
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  622. never read that at all,in fact just the opposite he jumped in both feet.Conditions and circumstances dictated tactics - not monty
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  623. Publicly he wasn't going to rip Monty - who like British officers he learned to loathe.Monty never really established shyt that wasn't there.IKE wanted to finish the Gerries,however he put on a facade as relations with Russia started getting ICY.Afterwards specially after Monty attempted credit for the Bulge,when he in fact wanted to fall back.IKE sidelined him until the Rhine Crossing when he loaned him Simpson's US 9th Army - why would a supposed Field Marshall need that.The answer lies in Winston Churchill faffing up British Military plans and Alan Brooke's business
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  624. I've read 30 books on the ETO Monty was a shyster,Churchill screwed up - Monty Took 4 more weeks than Claude Auchileck wanted (who BTW was a hell of a general) .He even benefitted the most from ULTRA as it was then fully operational. Monty couldn't lose in the desert where an embarrassment of riches covered his obvious lack of leadership abilities.Monty never pinned down Rommel he simply pursued . He had 1500 miles and every concievable advantage - BIG ADVANTAGES in men/materiel/air cover/intelligence/tanks/artillery.And only with 2 fresh Divisions moved over from the Nile Delta(coutesy of Dorman-Smith) and the Torch Landings(courtesy of IKE) forces included 60,000 troops in Morocco, 15,000 in Tunisia, and 50,000 in Algeria, Forced Rommel's hand as now there would be more enemy troops to deal with The allied supply port of Alexandria was 100 miles away,The Axis supply port was 1,000 miles away in Tripoli.The RAF and RN (great job by both) had swept the skies and seas clean of any resupport from the Reich.Rommel couldn't move during the day because of Connigham's Air coverage,who BTW hated Monty for grabbing so much credit that belonged to others Claude Auchinleck and Dorman Smith had just won the 1st battle of El Alamein concluded on July 30th.Auchilech was relieved and General Gott was installed but unfortunately his plane got shot down killing him. Everything and I mean everything was already in place to win. Almost any Commander was walking into assured victory.The British finally got their victory over a German Army and Monty was made a Hero when in truth it was a British /Allied victory. The BEF had 1,100 tanks and 225,000 men. FDR agreed to send Churchill after Trobruk - the 300 tanks and 100,105 mm howitzers Montgomery built NON of that Rommel had 200 tanks,90,000 men ,low on fuel,food, water
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  625. Um No Monty knew,KNEW it would take 3 days John Cornell, ♦D-Day had 30-50 mile flights across the channel.Monty Garden had 300 mile flight3 to NE Netherlands ♦D-Day had 900 flights.Monty Garden had 1600 Flights ♦D-Day was june 6th.Monty Garden was September 17th almost 3 full hours less daylight so 700 more flights,250 miles farther and 3hrs less to do it in.And the so called Field Marshall doesn't even show up MONTY GARDEN ♦Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses at the Belgian border until the Troop support and supply flights went over at 2:30 in the Afternoon?Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like they promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. ♦And why didn't Monty or the Other 3 think to put the bridging equipment up front that might have come in handy don't you think approaching 17 bridges over 12-13 canals? All 4 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site - Monty couldn't direct mice in a maze
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  626. Americans GAVE the british those tanks thinking they may use them. Not sit on their arses in them until 2:35 the 1st day waiting for the Transports to fly over. Did they think they would catch up? Then only made 7 miles the 1st day and of course monty conspiculously absent unlike Field Marshall Model
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  627. Stalin was supplied trucks & Artillary,427,000 Dodge's Studebakers,GMCs,105mm & 155 mm Howitzers and like 1300Locomotives,Won't even mention the food/clothes.That we delivered as Russia hardly had any ships.The Eastern Generals had no idea what the the massive bombing to Germany did - that Stalin had no hand in.Kruschev/Zhukov both thanked Eisenhower when he was President
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  628.  John Cornell wrong,Monty promised Ike he'd get to Berlin.The boob never made Arnhem nor was he ever around the action like Guderian,Zhukov,Patton or O'Conner/Auchinleck
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  629. Splashing in the channel isn't the thick of it Thicko.Monty almost got relieved for lying and Churchill had to addressParliament to clear it up.Monty used the Aucks & Dorman Smiths plan,ULTRA and the 300 Shermans and 100 - 105 self propelled Atr.Guns FDR promised Winnie.As disturbed as you are you could have won From Rommel & Collins,not the cornhole chronicles From The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523 Erwin Rommel - "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces,,Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare.The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education"
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  630. Monty couldn't even cross the Rhine until 6 ,months after Arnhem with the USA's help - what an impudent Chimp Page 368,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-1945 By Sir Max HastingsThe US Army relished to the utmost the spectacle of Montgomery preparing to "stage" a huge,formal military pageant ,more than 2 days after it's own soldiers had crossed 70 miles to the south. Patton's Army had crossed at night on 22 March "without the benefit of aerial bombing,ground smoke,artillery preparation and airborne assistance" all of which 21st Army Group(Montgomery) was employing on a prodigious scale Montgomery in Europe 1943-45,by Richard Lamb pages 360-362 "British 6th Airborne had lost 30% of it's personnel killed and wounded;the Air landing brigade,which came in gliders had lost over 70% of its equipment The Army that needed to keep casualty count low lost over 3,100 men crossing the Rhine north of Wesel. The disparity between the number of lives lost at Wesel and the 2 earlier American crossings is striking Casualty figures for the Rhine River crossings tell a grim story. Hodges 1st US Army got across at Remagen with a casualty count of 31 men Patton's 3rd US Army came across near Oppenheim "with the total loss of 28 men killed and wounded Simpson's 9th US Army had to wait and cross with Montgomery;they suffered 491 casualties crossing south of Wesel.The US 17th Airborne Division lost 921 Paratroopers and 350 air crew(all with Montgomery's 21st Army Group)
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  631.  @carlthehipsterprepper4506  Secret Samurai Society
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  632. Bullcrap Monty after 43 days was 21 miles from the beaches even with the benefit of the largest naval and Aerial Bombardment since D-Day and Ike told him he couldn't keep protecting his sorry ass,It's a proven fact even British Historians agree Monty mucked up the largest airborne drop at the time by trying to squeeze 34,600 troops down one 70 mile elevated lane thinking they would surprise the Gerries -LMFAO.
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  633. The Montgomery Myth,by R.W.Thompson Given British grievous disappointments in the Eastern Mediterranean and the fragile nature of any military alliance,General Montgomery was an extremely poor choice to command an Allied Army. Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion.Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery;based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for Monty was very weak.
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  634. From D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,by Antony Beevor,page 229 Monty liked to keep his objectives vague,often with metaphors,so with a break out he would claim credit for it.If the operation ran into the sand he would simply say he was tying down the Germans Triumph in the West,by Arthur Bryant,page 243 Alan Brooke wrote in his diary"The Strategy of the Normandy landing is quite straight forward.But now comes the trouble;the press chip in and we heard that the British are doing nothing and suffering no casualties whilst the Americans are bearing all the brunt of the war From Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb,Page 331 Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen
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  635. He beat you like a dusty rug puddles,come to think of it that's no great accomplishment .Now go jump in the channel like your hero
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  636. Sorry Jean Pierre - I don't need to employ your basket case tactics to make an accurate case in history - just facts.Your pants are full again ring the the nurses station and your handler will fix you up,then have him read some history to you
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  637. Ladies and gentlemen... I would like to give you Exhibit A of "why you don't do drugs when you're pregnant" because unfortunately you may spawn something like whatever it was that just responded to my comment
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  638. I'm getting tired of your pointless bitchery can you just admit you're an idiot
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  639. it was Monty's debacle all the way have many fine officers opposed it.But Monty insisted and IKE acquiesced and Monty didn't even have the decency to show up to the battles
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  640. Enjoy your stroll thru the land of make believe.Anything to get Monty off of the hook. Here you go Johnny,as I told you 3 yrs ago from Kershaw who unlike you actually talked to the Germans that fought there From " It Never Snows in September" page 306 Robert Kershaw XXX Corp advancing along one easily defended road was never able proportionally to match the German build up,and achieve the odds ratio necessary for rapid success.More specifically it was never able to push forward sufficient infantry by ground or fly them in by air,to secure what were essentially infantry objectivesThis was crucial of crucial signifigance because general Gavin's 82nd Airborne lacked sufficient infantry to storm the Nijmegen bridges before the arrival of XXX Corp on 20 September From " It Never Snows in September" page 307 M-G was condemned therefore,to move in the Allies favor only at XXX Corps laborious pace through the airborne corridor Progress was made difficult and the road cut on at least 2 occasions by the sudden deployment of newly arrived German Panzer & infantry forces.
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  641. This is fun Johnny how about the Tommies who were there.Shocking I'm sure you'd agree Arnhem,Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945 .By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes:'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ From Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle.There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed.We knew what even a handful of Germans could do - they were so damned efficient. Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.” As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem So Johnny you have answers just not the right ones
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  642. Here you go Johnny I have things to do and don't wish to dabble in your delusion any further From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." But that didn't get him off the hook and it would take another 6 months for him to cross the Rhine - with the help of the US 1st & 9th Armies of course
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  643. It's called documented history were yours refers to demented history.You're always plodding along in the comment sections like your hero on the field of battle - when he shows up
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  644. Puddles, The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror and the Krauts with incredible Joy. Bernard planned the whole thing even admitting it after the war - IKE and everyone else wanted Antwerp open. Monty shyt the bed every operation in Normandy .Monty Garden was unrealistically ambitious and just too many variables factoring in for things to go wrong. Ambition over reaching capability and Monty like you wasn't there. Monty unlike Walter Model wasn't a Field Marshall!!! Ike knowingly kept the British relevant in order to keep them in the alliance so that American soldiers would not have to shoulder the entire casualty burden on the Western Front.
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  645. General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops .At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend."With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions". General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt
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  646.  @seth1422  good analysis,if you had to deal with a few of these revisionists as long as I you would be rude also. I'll not listen fabrications while crapping on dead GIs when doing it - couldn't tell an M-1 from an axe handle ,well put
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  647. bullcrap Guards armoured were late then sat - this has been well established.And unlike Model Monty wasn't really up to the title of Field Marshall.A position given to him when he was removed from over all command in Normandy.I'd say Mongomery appeared lost but he never appeared at all during OMG
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  648. No TIK - IKE's sources were stretched from loaning 16 divisions to monty at one time or another both Simpson's 9th and Hodges 1st had to bail out the laggard at one time or another .And both got away from the rube ass soon as possible. So you are either unread or bending the facts - I expect that from lampshades like John Burns - not you. The shortage was not because of Middleton Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,pages 196-97 Montgomery was the main reason the Americans were stretched in the Ardennes.16 U.S. divisions were sent north of the Ardennes to compensate for manpower shortages within the 21st Army Group. The Americans were again asked to shoulder the burden of offensive warfare in a sector that had been reserved for his majesty's forces Or as one American writer recalled Monty was judging 1st Army by the standards of the British 2nd Army,which had barely moved from November 7th to February 8th As a result only 4 U.S.Divisions were strung out in the Ardennes Sector . While in the north Monty accumulated 31 divisions 15 British/Canadians and 16 US Also Monty claimed he knew this was coming and no one listend .He got drummed around so much for telling tales This from a Pulitzer Prize Winner The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p. 415 Montgomery wrote on December 15th "that Hitler's plight was so dire that he cannot stage major offensive operations" (Oops,on December 16th the Ardennes offensive began.The twisted twirp wasn't even right for a day.)
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  649.  @nickdanger3802  well like they say even a broken clock is right twice a day.Bernard indeed was in the right place for an about face - see plodding sometimes is of great value
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  650. Monty was an uppity little nothing who liked little boys(Read The Full Monty) and got his ass kicked off the continent. So I understand why you dweebs delight in him
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  651. Stevie the only thing you understand is delusion - you dabble in it the way most artists work in clay or on canvas - a true master
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  652. Operation Market Garden​ where a British Pathfinder was captured on 17 September with the radio and the plans for the ground markers and smoke signals. Also where The Germans also listened in to British radio signals on No.68P sets which captured paratroopers had not destroyed. Dave Hack unlike you they were there and inteviewed by British war coorespondents and Historians Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it "the English stopped for tea" ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it "the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move" While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try too hard despite the urgency of the situation. Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.219 "Montgomery went over my head" Air Marshall Conningham recalled after the war. "Month after month he did that; until he had his failure at Arnhem - then they made him listen. He violated all command channels" "Monty's water logged summaries tried to hide glaring weaknesses of a hopelessly flawed plan" - Sabastian Ritchie.
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  653. The idea of Monty in charge of an operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable dread and the Krauts with incredible joy. Bernard was a one legged man in an ass kicking contest and in reality a plodding, unimaginative,spotlight grabbing little shit.Who ranaway as his plan came apart with in 3 miles from it's start
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  654.  @lyndoncmp5751  regale for us when IKE got driven from continent and into the channel. You come like beggars for help and now speak ill of those that so stupidly come to help you. IKE saved him from himself when Churchill and the Air Marshalls wanted him removed .The Admiralty hated him because he didn't open any ports in Africa,Italy or Normandy. Air Marshalls same he never grabbed any air strips. But they eliminated the Germans in the seas and the skies and ULTRA tipped him off to their every move and the hack still dithered. Read Churchill and the Montgomery Myth ,Desert Generals or Brute Force - they are in English if that helps
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  655. The fault lies with Monty who didn't cross the channel for 4 yrs after getting driven into it
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  656. Monty? Puhleeeze, What he won he won because of overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA,Naval Power and air support. Then barely.......and poorly. He was a propped up fraud and rode everyone else's accumulative hard work to a headline.Until the truth unraveled and it was obvious his command abilities were greatly exaggerated as IKE later figured out​.Monty was an ankle biter passing himself off as a head hunter who had 4 years to come across his 21-30 mile channel. Why should the GIs come3,500 miles if he was all that. Britain had much better commanders
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  657. You've lied once and that has been continuously.Monty ignored ULTRA in a grasp for glory I've left the quotes from Brooke,Tedder,Ramsey,Beetle-Smith even Freddie suggested the time was past to take advantage of German disarray after Falaise Bombings and retreat
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  658. From 'It never Snows in September' by Robert J.Kershaw,map reference pages 192-193 The German Defense of Nijmegan 17-20 September 1944.The KampfgruppeHenke initially established a line of defense outposts based on the two traffic circles south of the railway and road bridges on 17 September.The 10SS Kampfgruppe Reinhold arrived and established the triangular defense with Euling on the road bridge,Henke and other units defending the approaches of the railway bridge,and his own Kampfgruppe on the home bank in the village of Lent .A surprise assault river crossing by the U.S. 3/504 combined with a tank assault on the road bridge on 20 September unhinged the defense.The Waal had been secured by 1900. There was nothing further barring the road to Arnhem 17 kilometers to the North Doesn't appear he's referring to failures of Gavin or the 82nd Airborne Yet the tanks sat-this we know.Yup Monty and Carrington were both on Frosts shit list.It still took Monty 6 months with the US 1st & 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time.They didn't end up in the channel or bark they were 90% successful
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  659. the aerial photos never caught camoflauged tanks.Even Kershaw said in the '70s when he was with NATO and they were hovering above in Helicopters.They didn't see german tanks during exercizes.So 70yrs ago fling by in planes with old optics ,hell Monty even admitted it From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here,Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth.
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  660. ​ @akgeronimo501  If some one was actually in charge(Monty "COUGH",Horrocks COUGH") they at least could have called off the river crossing and save a hell of a lot of GIs getting slaughtered.But those morons were used to pissing lives away - explains their supposed manpower shortages.They(82nd) didn't go thru all that so Carrington with the spine of a gummy bear could say no dice
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  661.  @akgeronimo501  This misadventure has Monty's fingerprints all over it.Even Brooke said so
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  662.  @patolt1628  you're guilty of the very thing you accuse americans of - ignorance.A country of over 300 million people has many different opinions.Any one familiar with history is aware of the French contributions in the American Revolution. You yourself paint with a wide brush,stop popping off ,you read every bad remark and ignore all the honest/accurate discourse. Americans left Europe because of Aristocratic Fuedal System.Britain's WW1 blockade starving 3/4 million Germans and France/Britain's signing the Treaty of Versailles greased the skids for WWII. A document that the The Government of the USA rejected out of hand. Germany teetered on poverty,famine and anarchy after the WAR.France and Britain were the age old belligerants and powers on the continent and sticking Germany for the bill and taking German lands guaranteed there would eventually be another fight
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  663. It is indeed the real reason for this failure you fraud.Pull your nose out of bernards backside and stick it in a history book. He demanded this dream of his and like everything else turned it into a debacle. The poof Bernard never showed up like Walter Model - an actual Field Marshall
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  664. TRUTH
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  665. Montgomery was not only the least essential but a positive impediment to the best conduct of the war, squandering opportunity after opportunity for cooperation and coordination of effort and making his fellow commanders aggrieved and miserable What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. And then barely and poorly. The GIs even thru Bernard into the stockade during the Ardennes offensive - IKE got a charge out of that. Rumors had circulated the Gerries had an imposter
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  666. No jerk they were there on Sept 7th and ULTRA dispatches confirm it
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  667. You hero carrington sat in his tanks as both the Irish Guards,Germans and Gis all noted.Little Villa you have something in common with Monty - neither of you were at Market Garden. You also have something in common with the GIs,neither of you were driven into the channel
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  668.  @nickdanger3802  he's on John Burns account so pointing out the obvious does no good.This port of revision is where his dinghy is moored
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  669.  @nickdanger3802  you're too kind a rusty scupper the size of a dinghy
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  670. How would Frost know what happened at Nijmegan when he was supposedly slugging it out in Arnhem? Either Little Villa,Frost or the author is making shit up,sounds like you however.
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  671. Monty planned this debacle he wanted a headline and Churchill even aske FDR for IKE to allow the putz for a shot at a headline
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  672. That's another thing - monty wasn't there to stop not completely confident in is own command skills,the desert for instance. Bernard planned the whole thing - IKE and everyone else wanted Antwerp open.Which was accurate to supply this operation and everything else moving forward. The Allies couldn't keep lugging supplies 483 miles from Cherbourg. Monty Garden was unrealistically ambitious and just too many variables factoring in for things to go wrong.
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  673.  @zulubeatz1  TIK has his mind made up - it was the plan that came apart at the beginning.Should never have been considered let alone launched. Supposed able minds at the top let down the common foot soldiers. Montgomery and IKE own it,Monty later admitted "a bad mistake on his part" which everyone knew ,quite a few at HQ had valid reasons.Specially Admiral Ramsay and he was right. No one is going to sneak up on a competent foe over 1 - 70 mile elevated high way
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  674. British trucks Wilmot's "The Struggle For Europe" and on page 524 of the Reprint Society London 1954 edition By the start of September all the transport reserves of 21st Army Group were on the road. Imports were cut from 16,000 tons per day to 7,000 so that transport companies could be diverted from unloading ships to forward supply. This gain, however, was almost offset by the alarming discovery that the engines of 1,400 British-built three-tonners (and all the replacement engines for this particular model) had faulty pistons which rendered them useless. [1] These trucks could have delivered to the Belgian border another 800 tons a day, sufficient to maintain two divisions. By reducing the daily tonnage of First Canadian Army, by bringing in fresh transport companies from England, and by such expedients as welding strips of airfield track on the sides of tank-transporters to convert them for supply carrying, 21st Army Group was able to provide enough supplies to carry Dempsey's two forward corps into Belgium as far as Brussels and Antwerp, but with it's own resources it could go no further. [1]See "The Administrative History of the Operations of 21 Army Group." p.47 "Eisenhower's Lieutenants" by Russell F. Weigley, page 281 Yet Montgomery had been unable to avoid lowering his logistical sights from arguing for a forty-division offensive to settling for an eighteen-division advance. For one thing, he had on his hands an embarrassing fiasco of British logistics which increased his dependence on American help. Some 1,400 British three-ton lorries, plus all the replacement engines for this model, had been discovered to have faulty pistons rendering them useless. That represented the loss of 800 tons a day. "There's A War To Be Won, The United States Army In World War II" by Geoffrey Perret, page 371 The transportation crisis was made worse by square-wheeled British mobility. In North Africa and again in Italy it took the British up to three times as long to move a soldier or a ton of supplies as it took the Americans. (footnote 37) During the pursuit, the British supply system virtually collapsed when thousands of brand-new but useless British trucks fell apart almost as soon as they hit the road. Three U.S. divisions were immobilized: The 26th, 95th, and 104th had come to fight but couldn't get out of Normandy because their trucks-and hundreds more-were taken to haul supplies for Montgomery. (footnote 37, page 588; John P. Lucas papers: diary, November 15, 1943: "Now I am stopped, not by the enemy but by the British inability to move. Their transport is so inferior . . ." USAMHI Archives. See also Lucian K. Truscott Jr., Command Missions (New York: 1954), 188.) "Eisenhower A Soldier's Life" by Carlo D'Este, page 591 The Red Ball continued in a modified form until the pursuit ended, a heroic but ultimately futile effort to keep the wheels from coming off the great Allied war machine, which had become a casualty of its own spectacular triumph. (footnote 31) To make matters worse, at a crucial moment fourteen hundred newly introduced three-ton British trucks broke down almost immediately with cracked piston rings, leaving the British 21st Army Group without crucial transportation and dependent on U.S. assistance. (footnote 32) (footnote 31, Christopher C. Gabel, The Lorraine Campaign, U.S. Army monograph, 1985. to long to copy talks about overloading trucks, tire shortages, supply Paris, and the French rail system that had not been repaired yet) (Footnote 32, The author cites Perret, which is above)
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  675. British planners of both Comet/linnet had canceled this charade for a host of practical reasons. Bernard getting his grubby little mitts on 2 US Airborne Divisions doesn't change any of that. From IKE,Brooke on down they all pointed right at Monty for ignoring reason and reaching for a headline Source Daly, James. Proposed Airborne Assaults in the Liberation of Europe: Cancelled Allied Plans from the Falaise Pocket to Operation Market Garden (p. 175) 3 September After the cancellation of Linnet Montgomery continued to look for opportunities to use the First Allied Airborne Army during 21st Army Group’s advance into the Low Countries. Although previous airborne plans had included river crossings as objectives, particularly Axehead and Linnet, even a cursory glance at the map confirms that the many rivers and canals in Holland and Belgium would inevitably become obstacles to the Allied rate of advance.
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  676. Alan Brooke placing the blame on Bernard "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow." How about Air Marshall Tedder??? With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings, Armageddon: The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area. With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airily aside" Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray. That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road, Monty ignored him. Montgomery’s own staff was opposed to the plan, as was his own chief of staff. How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers, volume IV, by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies. There's more but I'd have to start charging you and TIK
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  677.  @paulc254  exactly What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. And then barely.......and poorly.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics.Monty had serious deficiencies in fluid battles, and had limited ability to adjust his methods to changing operational situations. Wouldn't cross a crappy 30 miles for 4 full years - failed marshmellow
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  678. you yodeling chode write down what you know that should leave you with plenty of time to scribble more novels. Monty was running the wrong way the French were screaming sacre bleu, Guderian/Rommel were snickering on the Dunkirk shore and Stalin was like WTF. Now pick up your plastic army soldiers off the floor - mum will be home soon
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  679. Do some research telling the US germany 1st then thinking they're going thru Italy was a pipe dream.Take a couple of divisions maybe not that at the top of the alps to hold off whole armies.In WWI the austrian army held a Mountain Pass in Slovenia for 4 years,not a bright move attacking mountains with dug in troops
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  680. You girls and you knitting circles wearing the same underwear
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  681. When did Model escaped his direction kicked the crap out of the allies and the POOF Monty didn't show up just like Dieppe good men die while he literally got his picture painted
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  682. Monty memoirs are the greatest work of fiction since chaste and fidelity were added to the French Marriage vows
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  683. His point is baseless he's british and they just can't be blamed,ask the Canadians,Anzacs,Irish,Poles and Czechs.11,000 go in 2,100 come out Jr commanders aren't libel for the boss's baffonerey - MONTY
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  684. You girls and your knitting circles,Patton schooled the Pedo in Sicily that you conveniently ignore.The rube admitted that also - long after the war like everything else. Britain needed to hold the limelight in order to prevent being marginalized,this monty provided. Ike/Patton may have had flaws, but Monty was a "Legend in his own mind".Between getting the US 1st & 9th Armies to bail him out along with bombardment from the Naval & Air Corps Montgomery's victories were typically marked by such overwhelming strength that it was hardly surprising that he won them, undermining the idea that here was a superior Commander .As Bradley said, Montgomery rarely won a battle any other competent general wouldn't have won as well or better.Many historians have noted, that Montgomery was capable of outright lies if he thought it would elevate him above potential rivals.The Brits naturally wanted to fight the war as the leader with all the materials/supplies, men and wherewithal provided by America.But as Dunkirk and Singapore pointed out weren't up to the task.Britain had good soldiers but the rancid runt wasn't one of them .As long as the Crown propped him up it could no longer aspire to World Power status
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  685. Boy Burny -you seem angry did Monty miss your sponge bath - like he missed showing up for Market Garden? Go sit with Monty - it's what he did best ,imagine if the 82nd lost say 200,000 @ Dunkirk or 81,000 @ Singapore or 25-30,000 @ Tobruk or lost Greece/crete but who the hell has losses like that.
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  686. This one's barking,Had Monty showed up and Carrington had the balls to keep going - it still would have failed as Model(a real Field Marshal) could have dropped the bridge. MONTY GARDEN They were bigger laggards than you and your boy toy Lyndon
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  687. Boy Burny -you seem angry did Monty miss your sponge bath - like he missed showing up for Market Garden? * From the start at the Belgian Border town of Neerpelt Panzerfaust teams took out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start bringing the whole column to a halt .The XXX Corp Armored column made it a whole 7 miles the 1st day .This of course wasn't their fault but a prime example of the clownish incompetence of Monty's command The lack of initiative/tactics by ground force commanders - Dempsey/Horrocks/Vandeleur sitting on their arses in their tanks until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:35 in the afternoon - did they think they would catch up? Stopping at 6:00 pm when it wasn't yet dark? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown Instead of limping into Valkenswaard - Hell one could walk there in 2 hrs - ya Britsh speed This might explain why British troops were run out of Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 -Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 -Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 there is more but that is just too much typing
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  688. Monty owned this unlike a real Field Marshall Model, bernard never showed up - a fine example of a bad example. He admitted "a bad mistake on my part"
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  689. There was nothing there it was the truth the fighting was miniscule with bernard half heartedly faffing around.Even Rommel in his private papers to other officers wondered what he was doing.Claude Auchinleck with much less had won 1st alamein.There was virtually no fuel,water or supplies getting thru. An Army at Dawn,by Rick Atkinson,p418-19-20 .The British attack at el Alamein with more than 1000 tanks cracked the much weaker Axis defenders across a 40 mile front. The sheer weight of British resources made up for all the blunders,one account noted.Montgomery's 8th army hugged the Libyan coast much closer than it hugged the retreating Axis. Air Marshall Conningham said "once Monty had his reputation he would never risk it again Despite the enthusiasm for the amphetamine benzedrine which was issued in tens of thousands of tablets "to all eighth Army personnel by Montgomery pursuit after Alamein was hardly relentless". Rommel had escaped with the core of his army despite the advantage in tanks,an artillery superiority of 12:1 and an intimate knowledge of Axis where about and weakness thanx to ULTRA and other intelligence BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis,XVIII - In Africa Montgomery was incapable of finishing off Rommel even when his tanks were numbering in single digits and his plans were fully known to British intelligence BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p249-250 ,on 20 December LT Gen. von Sponeck of the 90th Light Division told his staff "Nobody can see any escape. The British outnumber us enormously. The puzzle is why are they following us so slowly? Time and again they have allowed us to dodge encirclement" The British Generalship under Montgomery remained unequal to the task of finishing them off. BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p.256 Afrika Korp Gen.Johann Cramer said after the war "El Alamein was lost before it was fought,we had not the petrol....*Rommel had known for a long time the campaign in North Africa was hopeless because of the petrol shortage"* BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p262-65 The figures largely speak for themselves. The German and Italian tanks through out the 2nd half of 1942 in Rommel's words were "decrepit and barely fit for action". Comparisons are even more striking At Galaza 800 British tanks vs 280 German tanks At 1st Alamein 159 vs 50 At Alam Halfa 524 vs 203 At 2nd Alamein 910 vs 234 The total of this ever bludgeoning Allied tank strengths by 5 November it was at 15:1 and the rest of the year hovered at between 10 & 13:1.By November 9th the British 8th Army had established an anti-tank superiority of 30:1 and artillery superiority of 12:1
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  690. https://youtu.be/POi3b2QHrc0?t=1 When this was recorded in June 2012, whilst a private memorial to the Polish Parachute Brigade and Sosabowski specifically has been erected in Arnhem the British army had still not put the record straight by restoring the now deceased Sosabowski to his former rank. Major Tony Hibbert feels particularly strongly that he would like to see the British Army do this to right the wrongs done to the Polish soldiers generally and Sosabowski specifically in 1944.
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  691. Stop reading the Cornhole Chronicles and try some historians From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary.Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, "I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem"
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  692.  @nickdanger3802  good link mentioning Guards Armour and 43 Wessex.But the plan was still doomed to defeat IMO even if 50-60-70% tanks,troops and Artillary made it over the Gerries were bringing in trainloads of men/material/provisions from the Ruhr/Reich.The Allies get driven into the Rhine or surrender wholesale.The Allies had no answers for the 88's and Air cover was undependable because of distance/weather
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  693. Monty did and he fessed up to it after the war - it has been explained to you many times. Now please pull your nose out of Bernard's backside take a deep breath then stick it into an actual history book - as revolting as that is to you
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  694. Monty admissions of guilt - after the war of course The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, p.303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "And here I must admit a bad mistake on my part –I underestimated the difficulties of opening up the approaches to Antwerp so that we could get free use of the port." (Montgomery’s memoirs, p297)​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." "Montgomery's Memoirs page 276 " "The next day, Bedell Smith came to see me the next day to say that Eisenhower had decided to act as I recommended. The Saar Thrust to be stopped. Three US Division (12 US AG) were to be grounded and their transports used to supply extra maintenance to 21 Army Group. The bulk of the 12 AG logistic support was to be given to 1 US Army on my right and I was to be allowed to deal directly with General Hodges. As a result of these promises I reviewed my Plans with Dempsey and then fixed D-Day for the Arnhem Operation for Sunday 17th September." Oh others blame him also Alan Brooke placing the blame on Bernard "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow." How about Air Marshall Tedder??? With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings, Armageddon: The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area. With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airily aside" Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray. That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road, Monty ignored him. Montgomery’s own staff was opposed to the plan, as was his own chief of staff. How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers, volume IV, by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies.
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  695. Unfortunately the Tommies were laden with the burden of carrying out bernards wishes. I'd say Monty appeared lost,unfortunately he never appeared at all. Like Burns and his family of warriors
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  696. A Bridge too Far was so authentic that neither Monty or your relatives appeared in it 🤣
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  697. Good Post MM
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  698. This nutthuigger continues to pull facts from his dark crevasse.SHAEF instructed the rube to open up Antwerp 1st.IKE,Brooke,Ramsey,Tedder,Bedell-Smith,even Freddie and Dempsey in his own Army advised against this very bad plan From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem"
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  699. Nijmegan is where the British tankers showed up late @ 1900 on sept 20 that's over 3days then sat while the GIs fought across a river and lost 48 KIA and 138 injured and some simpletons can't blamed Monty.If TIK actually read the book he's critiqueing he'd know that
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  700. The Wehrmacht was bringing up Tanks,artillery,men and material by rail from the Ruhr.Even if Monty's very poor plan got forward elements that far they would have been blasted back into the Rhine or taken prisoner.BTW Monty was never there commanding on the field
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  701.  @johnlucas8479  wrote:John you are making thinks up. =============== Ya think ? He works in bullshit the way most artists work in clay or on canvas - a true master
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  702. Perhaps if the allies had an actual Field Marshall like Walter Model things might work out.But they gave the job to Monty who didn't show up and was a fine example of a bad example
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  703.  @johnlucas8479  Revisionists - that's how
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  704. Sorry Burpsy monty was a fine example of a bad example not unlike you ♦One would say Montgomery appeared lost & helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all ♦Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare ♦The V-2s were still being launched ♦The massive deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for suppliesfor an operation that size ♦Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. ♦The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation,exposure and disease. ♦As many as 400,000 Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry or bunkers in the Reich ♦And all of the country's live stock was sent/driven to the Reich as they fell back. ♦Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as Montgomery boasted ♦Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army ♦Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success See Burns you have poof named carrington that stopped-going no further but where you live they call him LORD. Another poof named Monty who didn't show up at all but where you live they call him Field Marshall.Go tell your droopy delusions to you subservant saps in Trinidad or Tobago or what ever center for the disadvantaged you call home 🤣
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  705.  @billballbuster7186  Why don't you go visit monty's statue in Arnhem - oh,that's right there isn't one. 11,000 go into Arnhem 2,100 come out Jr commanders aren't libel for the boss's baffonerey - MONTY GARDEN. One would say Montgomery appeared lost & helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all The Lorraine campaign lasted from 1 Sep to Dec, not just 9 days, 6,657 were killed over 3 months and they took 75,000 German PoWs, compared with 17,000 casualties at Market Garden (which was more than the invasion of Normandy) including nearly 2,000 Brits and Poles killed before taking the American killed into account. Market Garden had nearly 3 times the casualties per day. Op Queen and the Hurtgen Forest battles (of which Queen was part) were costly failures, also, but the same argument applies - the period was far longer and the average losses less together with much higher Axis casualties and PoWs and they do not turn Market Garden into a success. Market Garden was a failure.Where was monty - biggest air drop in History up to that point and he couldn't be bothered as HIS plan came apart from the very beginning Thicko the only thing you source is your ample backside.I left direct quotes from actual participants upthread.Reread them they are in English or have your handler do it for you.One road with polder marshes on both sides. The column made it awhole 3 miles before being stopped by panzerfausts Arnhem.Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes:'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle. There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said "Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem" Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.”
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  706. Those are from Historians maybe if you get your ankle monitors removed they will allow into the library.Were both of you could enjoy coloring books or even better the Cornhole Chronicles
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  707. More bullshit from the Home The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies
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  708. From Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed
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  709. From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies. When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions.He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays. The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him
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  710. From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies. When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions.He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays. The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him
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  711. ​ @sean640307  Center of Military History,The United States Army,The Sigrfied Line CampaignPage174 Spearheading the 30 Corps ground column reconnaissance troops of the Guards Armoured Division linked with Colonel Tucker's 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 the morning of D plus 2, 19 September. (See Map IV) Major formations of the British armor were not far behind. From that point priority of objectives within the sector of the 82d Airborne Division shifted unquestionably in the direction of the bridge at Nijmegen. Already at least thirty-three hours behind schedule because of earlier delays south of Eindhoven and at Zon the ground column had to have a way to get across the Waal Pages 184-185 First Attempts To Drive on Arnhem Counting from the time of first contact between the British ground column and the 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 on D plus 2, 19 September, until the Nijmegen bridge was taken at 1910 on D plus 3, 20 September, a case could be made to show that the ground column was delayed at Nijmegen for almost thirty-five hours. Yet this would be to ignore the facts that first arrivals of the ground column represented no more than a forward reconnaissance screen and that several hours elapsed before sizable British units began to arrive Indeed, almost another twenty-four hours would elapse after capture of the Nijmegen bridge before the British would renew the drive on Arnhem .At nightfall on D plus 3, the British had at Nijmegen only the Guards Armoured Division. *https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml * At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. Proof this is a bad plan... the first obstacle each force in this plan had was the very plan itself. XXX Corps stuck going up one road, asking for ambush and serious delays (both occurred) From - 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked; at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst. "It was a lost chance" The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959.From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: *--Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 228 Gavin knew he faced a staggering task.He tried to rise to the challenge of a bad plan without complaint and achieved a remarkable success.The 82nd could hardly hold the Groesbeek Heights and take the key bridges at the same time.With the presumption of minimal German opposition - there was no margin of error for the operation.Which was open to the assumption of maximum risk.Most of the tactical objectives were outside,not within the landing areas UNITED STATES ARMY IN WORLD WAR II The European Theater of Operations THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN By Charles B. MacDonald CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY UNITED STATES ARMY WASHINGTON, D.C., 1993 P157 General Browning, was "clear and emphatic" to the effect that the division was "not to attempt the seizure of the Nijmegen Bridge until all other missions had been successfully accomplished In his formal order General Browning stated: "The capture and retention of the high ground between Nijmegen and Groesbeck is imperative in order to accomplish the Division's task." From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend." With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions".General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  712.  @sean640307  when did Model say it was a good plan?Perhaps for him. Why did Horrocks/Vandeluer wait for the freakin' planes with supplies to fly over? Did they think they were going to catch up to them?SMDH.Shoehorning a whole armored column up a 70 mile elevated lane with no room for manuever is the idea of an idiot who shouldn't be leading a boy scout assembly .You realize there were like 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? Did you read those other quotes?And no thought whatsoever was given to that ,even if this debacle somehow made it to Arrhem - they were dead men - no immediate back up at all - the allies were funneled to coming over at one point.Where as Model/Student had the Ruhr to their beckoning.They had been ferrying tanks/supplies/arty over rivers/canals since early in the operation.Monty didn't do that not Sept,not in Oct,not in Nov - according to a Dutch poster.Monty and IKE for Okaying this clusterf*** own it.And they were suppose start much earlier not wait until theF**** plane were literally overhead.Horrocks and Vandaluer - nice guys but hot garbage as commanders,Vanduluer & his cousin stopped for a swim and had wine with a a reporter tart by a fire.Believe Dick Winters of the 101st in his book witnessed it
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  713. And Col Heinz Harmal had reconnoitered the Bridge.He knew there was one field gun down the stretch that Carrington wouldn't take,yet a subordinate Robinson did - at least that guy had some stones.And for all this Carrington comes out of it as "LORD" - there's your problem there - read "It Never Snows in September"
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  714.  @sean640307  no it wouldn't you're statements are making Goebbels seem like an honest fellow. The allies weren't going to haul supplies all the way from cherbourg 483 miles away. Do you understand logistics ? I think you do but like monty can't bring yourself to admit to his lack luster at best skills. Never figured you for a slappy but alas if you believe your last post you took the bait
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  715.  @sean640307  SEAN, the Dutch Army had advised going west and north over terrain that could support armor. They could fan out and flank the Gerries. Instead of the polder marshes and flood plains that surrounded most of Hell's Highway which basically created choke points that the Gerries exploited. Oh and then there is this. Horrock's words The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.213-14 On 29 August Horrocks XXX Corp set out on a drive that some conclude might have altered the course of the war. They advanced 250 miles through northern France and into Belgium unopposed and captured the strategic port of Antwerp virtually with out a fight. Horrocks admitted as much "we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might have even have succeeded in bouncing across the Rhine - if we had taken the chance and and carried straight on" There were no significant German forces between Horrocks and the Rhine. But instead of ordering Horrocks forward on September 4 Montgomery halted him. Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.170,by R.W. Thompson In Early September, Montgomery failed to exploit his opportunity by failing to cross the Albert Canal and advance down the Walcheren Rd to capture the coastal batteries situated along the Scheldt that prevented shipping from reaching the port of Antwerp and delivering critical supplies to the Allied Armies massing along the Siegfried Line The Germans quickly took advantage of Monty's failure by sending in heavy reinforcements to the Walcheren area. It would take 21 st Army group more than 2 months to clear the region of enemy troops *Billy E.T. Williams who was an Intelligence Officer in the British Army during WWII,also lays the blame for the army's failure with the Field Marshall "At the crucial hour leadership was lacking,the decision that only Field Marshall Montgomery could have exercised for which the hour demanded on seizing options and opportunities"*​ Horrocks: The General Who Led From the Front,by Philip Warner,p.111 - "There was only a single low grade division ahead of Horrocks on Sept 4. it was spread over a 50 mile front along the Albert Canal. *Horrocks believed that this could have been brushed aside and XXX Corps could have gone on to cross the Rhine"
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  716. he didn't cover squat, I should be charging you for this try reading above if that's not too much. The USA had to come 3,500 miles again because some supposed Empire got in over their royal rumps for the 2nd time in 2 decades another one in fantasy land,
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  717.  @alanpennie8013  correct lie-deny and alibi,some of the crown's best comedians
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  718.  @oddballsok  babbling burns was reduced to hurling insults,his own comments blew up in his face and circled around and bit him in the ass as you clearly showed him.Good job of beating burns like a dusty rug
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  719.  @akgeronimo501  great posts - I won't waste my time reading this Crown's Comics here's another from a poster Thrasherback who read the book-cover to cover. The author makes absolutely outrageous claims based entirely on uninformed information and mistaken facts, and draws outlandish conclusions that are amateurish and embarrassingly naïve at best. His major contention that had the Waal River bridge been secured when the British arrived at Nijmegen on September 19, the British would have had 48 hours to relieve their compatriots at Arnhem is a laughable observation. I'll ignore for the moment that 76 out of 260 American paratroopers of Company C of the 307th Airborne Engineer Battalion and Company H and Company I of the 504th Parachute Infantry were KILLED, and another 119 wounded crossing the Waal and along the river's far bank in their suicidal effort to get the British across the river, only so that the British could cross the bridge and then STOP for over twenty-four hours on the far bank? Adamantly refusing to drive on to Arnhem(Carrington). Hey, I'll even go the author one further, I'll also ignore the fact that XXX Corps should have been in Nijmegen on September 18. But I'll get back to that one. Meanwhile, I'll address some of his more ridiculous claims. I'll start with the easiest lie to refute. That would of course be the author's contention that *"There is an official statement in which General Gavin admits that he alone was responsible for the shift in priority from capturing the Waal Bridge to defending the Groesbeek Heights." Really? When did General Gavin issue "official statements" after the battle?*(he didn't) If the author ever plans to write another book about Operation Market, I strongly suggest he take a quick glance at British Airborne Corps' Operational Order Number 1. In it, he'll find General Browning's explicit orders to the 82d Airborne Division that the high ground around Groesbeek is the 82d Airborne Division's primary objective, and all the division's other objectives, including the Waal bridge, are to be considered secondary to the high ground. General Gavin did make an off-hand comment that he agreed with General Browning's prioritizing of the high ground, but he never said it was his decision, as it was clearly General Browning's. If I were writing a book about Operation Market, I would have started with British Airborne Corps' Operational Order Number 1. The author's entire assumption of the 508th Parachute Infantry easily taking the bridge if only given the chance, and "Authentic documents however prove that in fact no pre-jump orders were issued, as claimed by General Gavin," is equally libelous. Let's take the latter first, and quickly. Both General Gavin and Colonel Roy Lindquist have attested in writing to the fact that the evening before departing England General Gavin instructed Colonel Lindquist to try for the bridge if circumstances warranted it. Perhaps there is no official documentation because Gavin's instructions to Lindquist were contrary to Gavin's orders from Browning, which the author has yet to find in British Airborne Corps Operational Order Number 1 through his "well-founded" and "meticulous" research. And that leads me to the 508th Parachute Infantry. The 508th Parachute Infantry actually landed with explicit orders, and they were the most demanding of any unit, American or British, in the entire operation. The regiment was stretched paper-thin the minute it landed. The First Battalion was to move 5 or 6 miles to the outskirts of south-central Nijmegen, primarily to block the Nijmegen-Groesbeek Road. If the situation then allowed, First Battalion was supposed to send a platoon into Nijmegen to try for the bridge. After sundown First Battalion dispatched a platoon from Company C, which quickly became lost inside the city. Later that night, First Battalion sent Company A and Company B into the city, both of which also became hopelessly lost inside the city, and were thrust into a firefight with elements of both Colonel Henke's defenders, and the arriving 9 SS Panzer Division's armored reconnaissance battalion. By sunrise they had made no progress toward the bridge when General Gavin started receiving reports of a German assault against the landing zones. That would be the assault the author describes as "the German attack was only local and there was no need for the withdrawal of the three companies in Nijmegen who were making good progress in capturing the Waal Bridge." Well, as we have just seen, the two, not three companies were hardly making "good progress in capturing the Wall bridge." They were in fact, stopped cold in their tracks. And "the German attack that was only local," did overrun and nearly annihilate the 508th Parachute Infantry's Company D which had been left behind to hold the landing zones, and did consist of three full non-local kampfgruppe or 250-300 men each with twenty non-local armored vehicles (Pumas) supported by nearly a non-local regiment of artillery. The 508th Parachute Infantry's Company G was in a perfect assault position, amazingly the author got that much correct. But it's hardly that simple when you're conducting a major combat operation. Company G was nearly alone in guarding the 82d Airborne Division's eastern flank, specifically the critical road out of Cleve in Germany. The very road that the Germans utilized a day later to launch another "non-local" attack which consumed all of the 508th Parachute Infantry, and eventually the British Coldstream Guards for three full days. Strangely, in all the author's "meticulous research" he missed two salient facts. General Gavin initially planned a coup de main against the Waal bridge on September 17 by jumping the 508th Parachute Infantry's Company B, followed by two gliders carrying a pair of 37mm antitank guns. But General Browning and the Air Corps strenuously objected, and joined to have the plan scrapped. The author's "meticulous research" also missed General Gavin's having devised a two-prong attack to capture the bridge on September 18 by moving elements of the 504th Parachute Infantry down from the north, and elements of the 508th Parachute Infantry up from the south. But General Browning quickly vetoed the plan. Sadly, the 504th Parachute Infantry's proposed route would have brought it into contact with a then virtually undefended railroad bridge. If the author is that interested in finding an element of Operation Market "Lost," I strongly suggest he look much further south. He can begin at the tiny village of Elst. Or he can spend his "meticulous research" analyzing the British 1st Airborne Division's operations, and explain how two-thirds of an entire airborne division were initially blocked from reaching the bridge in Arnhem by a para-military police force, and handful of converted German flack gunners, and a German training company. But I'd start with Elst, and explain an entire armored corps being held up for an entire day by a pair of 8mm guns. Much was "lost" in Operation Market. But little of it involved the American operations. While the British airborne division struggled to seize a single bridge at Arnhem, the 82d Airborne Division captured five bridges across an area of twenty-five square miles, and two of those bridges were larger than the bridge in Arnhem. British XXX Corps decided to stop and rest and maintain its tanks for the night south of Eindhoven, throwing their entire drive irrecoverably behind schedule. A second division could have easily leap-frogged the lead division to maintain the momentum of the drive. But they failed to do so. Field Marshal Montgomery's plan was brilliant. His only flaw was using British command. By the way, a number of local Dutch have done amazing work in documenting Operation Market, especially the 82d Airborne Division's role in the operation. But sadly this author is not one of them. He takes a serious world event, and applies the analysis and insight not worth of a kindergarten student
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  720. They were late then sat,the 82nd were fighting their asses off and Carrington oh l mean "LORD" CARRINGTON decides to ignore the open road that the Germans themselves said was theirs for the taking and chooses to sit - MONTY GARDEN
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  721.  @oddballsok  thank you for your honest/accurate observations in spite of the drivel from the collections of fanbois
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  722. Burns we don't need to read your auto biography
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  723. MONTY GARDEN,Bernard was shyt and only won when the allies provided him with an embarrassment of riches
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  724. Um no 5 tanks show up late then sit.Bunch of revision to save the Perv Monty's place in History.Monty and Horrocks both failed
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  725. the battle was lost because of Monty's piss poor planning and IKE letting him do it
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  726.  @danwelch8547  good posts
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  727. Blister head burns putting your barking in italics with red diamonds doesn't turn chicken shit into chicken salad
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  728. Monty was no Field Marshall like Model who actually showed up and directed troops for Monty own Operation.He failed at Caen/Falaise and here when IKE was indeed giving him the lion share of supplies and he still faffed it up
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  729. Patton embarrassed Monty in Sicily and exposed him for what he was a WWI Sargent.Britain had good officers but Winnie really screwed the pooch by sacking Auchinleck who just won in Alamein
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  730. Blisterhead Burns they were put there because Monty's crap plans kept getting Tommies killed
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  731.  @oddballsok  though 6 years ago great post because it is accurate and comes from a Dutchman who has studied the battle unlike those who have claimed to. Thank You
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  732. Nope 1st day XXX Corps started out at 2pm and stopped at 6 - no motivation or momentum.They made it a whole 7 miles
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  733. Montgomery the Field Marshall p.171 by R.W. Thompson - R.W.Thompson who was an Intelligence Officer in the British Army during WWII,also lays the blame for the army's failure with the Field Marshall "At the crucial hour leadership was lacking,the decision that only Field Marshall Montgomery could have exercised for which the hour demanded on seizing options and opportunities" - You think Monty could have inconvenienced himself to attend his own operational debacle that after the war he fessed up to? Largest Air Drop in History up until that point and the poof couldn't be bothered? There were cock ups all the way back to the Belgian Border and it didn't involve Gavin or the 82nd. -Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:30 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. -Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bring the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but Monty's pathetic planning.This operation is a prime example of the clownish incompetence of his command. -And why did Monty and Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think ? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 4 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site -Monty neither captured the V-2 launch sites, Arnhem or Antwerp during Market Garden. And the reprisals brought on the honger winter - great job https://www.youtube.com/s/gaming/emoji/7ff574f2/emoji_u2666.png
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  734. -From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it ​the English drank too much Tea the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent,if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate *yet the Guards Armored Division did not move*​ ​While the Germans used the windfall respite to organise their blocking line. From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright, we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge - we were stopped. I never felt so much despair The more laissez-faire attitude of the chain of command prevailed .Another precious 24 hrs were allowed to slip by while 1st Airborne Division continued to fight for its life​.
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  735. Like he said you lump Carrington=Prince Bernard,not to be confused with Bernard from Monty Garden fame
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  736. Can't fix stupid,did your gand Pa tell you that Owen
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  737. You make me larf,Finest army in the WORLD🤣 BWA-ha-ha-ha-ha,Puddles did you spill your happy meal again? You pathetic bent little wretch,ring the nurses station your pants are filled again.That's why he was the last to cross the Rhine and took the most casualties 🚑🚑🚑doing it and IKE lent the polluted plodder the US 9th Army just so he could limp across
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  738.  @imperialcommander639  Ha - I think you're all clear for time being TSB,ya this is the other guy 501 who suspected there was a posse of imposters on Burns account.501 has swatted down their forgeries and robust theories for quite some time.And schooled TIK also
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  739. TIK they had the 82nd you idiot who crossed just for that and Horrocks called the waal crossing the most gallant act he'd seen in the whole of the war
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  740. And Burns there were indeed at least 2 battles with much more armor than Caen.Which was eventually taken by bombardment from the Air Corps and Navies
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  741. Um no it took him 6 months after his OMG debacle to cross the rhine and that was with the US 9th Army.IKE later stated he didn't have Monty removed so as to give Stalin a bold look of Unity but Stalin thought it was actually to the Russians advantage to oppose a simple slappie like Bernard
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  742.  @jthunders  wrote To fire him would’ve caused big problems politically and threaten the alliance. Yet Marshall would have done it and Churchill would have had to go along with it had the point been pressed Churchill himself seems to have had mixed feelings about Monty. Burns is right though, he did handle himself well during the Ardennes offensive, at least the military aspect if not the political ------------------------------------------------------------------- It came closer than most think,and Monty held a shoulder but then wanted to withdraw from that when Joe Collins went on the offensive.IKE should have just left Collins alone he commanded the advance anyway.Part of the Problem was Bradley actually ran 1st Army - Hodges was kept around because he had been a lifer though modern tactics had passed him by not unlike Bernard,though he was lucky enough to be around for a big allied victory as history showed that really couldn't be lost.But IKE certainly made errors,he should have been sent packing along with the sod Monty From the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 469 Montgomery hesitated,suspecting that Runstedt 'had enough combat strength for another attack that could punch through to Liege.Collins thought not "nobody is going to break through these troops" he told Montgomery"this isn't going to happen. "If the Allies failed to attack closer to the base of the salient,they risked leaving a corridor through which retreating Germans could escape, he told the Field Marshall "you're going to push the Germans out of the bag,"Collins added,"just like you did at Falaise." Collins was above all was an effective leader forward thinking and fast on his feat able to adjust to changing circumstances He put himself at all time in the front of the action. He studied tactics, and took advantage of the advent of armor and airpower, much more so than many of those generals who came through command and in fact in charge like static stumblers,Monty and Bradley,Hodges. Collins was, in short, creative, studious, personally brave, and quick to lead and direct those around him respected combat acumen. From Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge,page366 While undoubtedly an American Triumph,the Ardennes campaign produced a political defeat for the British.Montgomery's disasterous press conference and the clamour of the British Press had stoked a rampant Anglophobia in the USA and especially among Senior American Officers in Europe.And as Churchill recognized there was a much greater consequence.Montgomery would find himself sidelined once across the Rhine on the advance into Germany and all British advice was ignored.The Country's influence was at an end The German and Allied casualties in the Ardennes fighting from 16 December 1944 to 29 January 1945 were fairly equaled.German losses were around 80,000 dead,wounded,missing.The Americans suffered 75,482 casualties,with 8,407 KIA.The British lost 1,408 wounded of whom 200 were killed From Ardennes 1944 - by Sir Antony Beevor - Page 304 Field Marshall Sir Alan Brooke was disturbed when he heard Monty's account "it looks to me as if Monty with his usual lack of tact has been rubbing into Ike too much Monty advice".Too much "I told you so" From Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge,page356 On January 18,determined to mend fences,Churchill made a speech in the House of Commons to emphasize "The United States troops have done almost all of the Fighting and have suffered almost all of the losses....Care must be taken in telling our proud tale not to claim for the British Army an undue share of what is undoubtedly the greatest American battle of the War and will I believe, be regarded asan ever famous American Victory".It was Montgomery's own fault that political considerations and rivalries now dictated allied strategy
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  743.  @jthunders  WHICH series about the Ardennes?Market Garden?Failaise?Too bad Winnie was whacking Generals like flies at a Picnic,they were getting valuable experience.Would have loved to see specifically O'Conner(who Monty denigrated - out of fear/jealousy also)The Auk or Slim.O'Conner for sure from all that I read had the makings of a battlefield Icon.Had Churchill not taken 50,000 troops from him and shipped them to Greece/Crete the war in NA would have been in the bag. O'Connor had the Axis Troops literally on the ropes and Winnie's woopsie cost the crown in both places.Monty the Berk had O'Connor reassigned after OMG I believe blaming him/Canadians/Poles/XXX Corps some GI's and even IKE,for approving the mongrels own move
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  744. Burns you should also take a deep breath.... for 20 minutes.Monty was in fact the worst overall commander of any combatant in WWII. As for him "taking more ground" than any Allied commander - that claim is so absurd it basically disqualifies you from any serious discussion on this topic. Your pants are full again and you should stop blowing snot bubbles
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  745. Old Monty at least Japanese Commanders had the common decency to disembowel themselves after a disaster like this The Dutch Army Staff College final exam before the war asked students about how to advance north on just this road. Any student suggesting a direct assault up the road was failed on the spot. Only flanking well to the west was accepted as an answer you should try telling your droopy delusions to the subsevant saps in Trinidad or Tobago
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  746. Burns you are dizzy from inflating your dates. Outside of giving out bubble baths Monty did nothing in the Bulge and he almost got sacked for suggesting he did
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  747.  @jthunders  AKGeronimo 501was absolutely right when he schooled Blisterhead Burns here and TIK on one of these Revisionist Boards.The dweebs were using Poulussen's "Lost at Nijmegen" he showed there was practically at least 1 provable lie a page
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  748. Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge,page366 While undoubtedly an American Triumph,the Ardennes campaign produced a political defeat for the British.Montgomery's disasterous press conference and the clamour of the British Press had stoked a rampant Anglophobia in the USA and especially among Senior American Officers in Europe.And as Churchill recognized there was a much greater consequence.Montgomery would find himself sidelined once across the Rhine on the advance into Germany and all British advice was ignored.The Country's influence was at an end The German and Allied casualties in the Ardennes fighting from 16 December 1944 to 29 January 1945 were fairly equaled.German losses were around 80,000 dead,wounded,missing.The Americans suffered 75,482 casualties,with 8,407 KIA. The British lost 1,408 wounded of whom 200 were killed Sorry Boy Burny, Bernard will see you for your sponge bath now - can't make that shit up
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  749.  @agentmulder1019  great post and how true
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  750. Ya and the GI's still got over the channel while the crown's corporals sat there for 4 full years,30 miles wide - real fine soldiering .You knob Churchill,Monty and Brooke claimed manpower shortages.Probably from when Monty designed the operations .So the GI's went it alone alot
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  751. The Book was accurate - he talked to more actual combatants than anyone
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  752. 4 years,FOUR FULL YEARS, the polluted rube wouldn't cross his own channel until the Big Boys showed him how.Class dismissed
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  753. ♦️You never answered my question - UK & Monty had 4 yrs,FOUR FULL YEARS to have a go across the channel.What was stopping them? 20-30 miles right off your shore couldn't be that daunting could it? With 45 million men in your Empire should have been a smashing success . 20-30 miles,WTF happened? How come Monty didn't cross the Rhine until April '45 and needed the US 9th Army to do it? ♦️Imagine what this yapping jackel Boy Burns would say about IKE if he lost say 200,000 @ Dunkirk or 81,000 @ Singapore or 25-30,000 @ Tobruk but who the hell has losses like that? 🚑🚑🚑
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  754. Burns you polluted rube Alan brooke,Adml Ramsey,Air marshall Tedder all pointed at Monty.Along with IKE they insisted Antwerp be open,logistically that makes perfect sense so We understand why you don't get it.Guards Armor didn't get to Nijmegan on time then they would wait for 43rd Wessex.Shitty plan by a small minded man
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  755. Blisterhead Carrington and Guards Armor stopped in Lent and stayed there for 18 hours .Both the Germans and GIs recorded this - you may now return to Fantasy Island
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  756. Actually Boy Browning had no Para or WWII field experience.But the real culprit was no where around - MONTGOMERY.Ignores SHAEFs directives of opening up a deep water port.Monty didn't do that at Antwerp or capture Arnhem or the V-2 sites.And brought on the Honger Winter that left the Dutch with 21-25,000 dead civilians
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  757. Ya know puddles i had a good stroll thru the comment sections.And you got curb stomped far and away more than anyone else.Seth 1422,Old Tanker,Rex in Mn,the Director and of course Geronimo and myself carved you up like the Christmas Goose - only he had more brains .You really aren't too sharp as Seth said I've realized that you are a weeping wound of bristling pride and seething grievance that will never see the world outside your methane cloud.And like I said You couldn't be a bigger sucker if you were on the end of a stick.So go slobber on your monty poster and leave History to those of us with and education
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  758. Sure you did,of course like Custer and the 7th Cavalry whooped up on Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull at the Little Big Horn.That would be a good name for you - Sitting Bull as you do both so well
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  759. Burns you pathetic lump,now Dunkirk is the fault of the Canadians,Czechs and Poles.The very men who covered Monty's retreat as the Burns ample backsides ran up the gang palnks - you make me larf.Then you blather on Bernard didn't plan Monty Garden - you've done enough drugs to send sniffer dogs into early retirement
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  760. MONTY GARDEN,plan blew up everywhere
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  761.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  see how he checks in and out of accounts and then forgets More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  762.  @Skipper.17  1st off your boys were nowhere around in the Pacific ask the ANZACs secondly you bangers got driven from Norway,Netherlands,Belguim,France and of the beaches of Dunkirk.We don't take orders from limeys we weren't your subservant saps And MONTY was ASS Auchinleck and O'Connor was much better
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  763. It's almost as lame and slanted as you
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  764. Monty was a moron propped up by the overall superiority of men/material.He should have been removed but British public had been duped by what monty told the press
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  765. Burns you whiny waif stick to pillow fights at least your losses won't hurt as much. When getting dunkirked did any of your Uncles run up the gangplanks faster Monty?
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  766. little villa Monty almost got removed for ordering a retreat then claiming he directed the GIs victory. But being a british bullshit artist yourself you can't help but admire the unhinged halfwit that in any other army would have been removed. Have John Burns read the FULL MONTY to you,disgraceful I'm sure you'd agree More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  767. From " It Never Snows in September" page 306 Robert Kershaw. XXX Corp advancing along one easily defended road was never able proportionally to match the German build up,and achieve the odds ratio necessary for rapid success.More specifically it was never able to push forward sufficient infantry by ground or fly them in by air,to secure what were essentially infantry objectivesThis was crucial of crucial signifigance because general Gavin's 82nd Airborne lacked sufficient infantry to storm the Nijmegen bridges before the arrival of XXX Corp on 20 September From " It Never Snows in September" page 307 M-G was condemned therefore,to move in the Allies favor only at XXX Corps laborious pace through the airborne corridor.Progress was made difficult and the road cut on at least 2 occasions by the sudden deployment of newly arrived German Panzer & infantry forces.
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  768. ya they trusted Monty who never showed up for the battle BTW
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  769. Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.108 Arnhem could not be captured unless all else below it was secured 1st. In addition it was necessary to capture and hold an area of high ground south east of Nijmegen at Groesbeek only a few miles from Germany. German possession of the heights would have left XXX Corp's eastern flank dangerously exposed to counter attack. Never the less Montgomery's plan required 100% mission success something unkown in large scale Airborne operations. Failure to capture a single objective would jeopardize the entire XXX Corp offensive Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.138 Brereton was not in a position to exploit strategic intelligence,and he would also have known that Montgomery had access to ULTRA and had never the less decided that Market Garden should proceed. First Allied Airborne depended very heavily on Mongomery's 21st Army Group for their supply of intelligence. 1st Parachute Brigade summary by Capt. W.A. Taylor that appeared on September 13th which pointed out that "the whole Market area was being feverishly prepared for defense" - a statement entirely in accord with Dempsey's diary notes of September 9th & 10th Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.160 By September 1944 Air Force Planners were unable to see a happy outcome. Moreover, it was documented that because Arnhem lay so far in land they did not expect to attain outright tactical surprise. The previous Comet Operation air warning stated "Surprise is extremely unlikely and the enemy will undoubtedly have knowledge of the approach of Troop Carrier formations by radar alert or visual reconnaissance"
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  770. Burns break your Prozac in half - pretty much everyone on the web detests you and your babble.I'm impressed you think it's me,If I figure it out - it will be me.But you are a big pussy - help me TIK help me.Getting your shit shoved in like the little troubled tart that you are
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  771. Help me somebody pulled my ponytail - you whiney waif you couldn't win a pillow fight More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  772. That's you screaming for help Tinkerbell
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  773. Yes Burns apparently you are - again
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  774. You're about as brilliant as Monty
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  775.  @akgeronimo501  1st off you know he's in juvenile lock up so don't take the bait.He's been some badman's boyfriend for a while .So consider his howling. The Gerries themselves witnessed the walk about referring to Guards Armor as The John Burns Brigade Eye witness from the Wehrmacht From - 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. 'Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'It was a lost chance 'The Allied infantry were too late supporting their tanks' Even Monty who's fault it really was blamed their slow advance
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  776. Monty was almost as bad at commanding as Puddles here is at posting From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 292 Despite Montgomery's message to IKE that he thought there was still a "sporting chance" of taking the bridge at Arnhem he must have sensed by then that a terrible disaster was taking place,which would considerably damage his reputation After all his demands for priority which he received in the north to get across the Rhine,he could not have wanted to face IKE,Patton,Bradley and SHAEFF in Versailles And could not have been keen to encounter General Bedell-Smith or Strong ,whose fears about German strength in the southern Netherlands Monty had ridiculed The very next day Monty wrote in his diary "I am very doubtful now if 1st airborne will be able to hold out and we may have to withdraw them". And the fact he never visited Horrocks during the entire battle confirms the impression that he was keeping his distance,a rare event for the "Master"
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  777.  @akgeronimo501  Didn't know that I know many ran out of ammo but perhaps not as much as we were led to believe .As you said Frost in his book wasn't getting the full story at all about the 82nd while Guards Armor stopped after Nijmegan.
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  778. Based on the fact that the meerkat Monty who TIK waxes nostalgic about was nowhere to be seen during this operation.That the boys probably thought to hell with it.And honestly based on the fact he wasn't a Field Marshall really Why get whacked at that stage of the game.Hard to say what I'd do except request a transfer away from that headline grabbing moron
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  779. any one of them Swiss Boy
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  780. Break your prozac in half lesbo he even admitted it after the war
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  781.  @Franky46Boy  Great observation,didn't know that.Montgomery was an idiot and IKE a fool for going along on this debacle.Did you know that Generals Bittrich and Harmel both wanted to drop the Arnhem/Nijmegen bridges. Model over ruled them as he wanted to use them to counter attack - that's a Field Marshall unlike Bernard who didn't have the Cajones to show up. Had they done so the Operation would have been over before it started. Another thing - I'll humor these morons who think it was a good idea. Even if they made the Bridge at Arnhem Student and Model were bringing tanks and artillary in by rail from the the near by Ruhr. Aim a couple of 88s at the few bridges left standing and it's a slaughter at 1 or 2 choke points. Amazing the fools in these sections that attempt to prop up this Fool's errand. Shame good men didn't come home as Monty spouts it was 90% successful. This directly led to the Honger Winter - the poor Dutch
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  782. he's right monty doesn't show up, Monty ignored & discounted the basic logistical reality of not only one road but that the Wehrmacht were falling back upon their own supply and logistical centers. The Germans had lots of practice doing this type of operation because of all their mauled divisions coming back from the Eastern Front then going to France. This means that German Divisions could be quickly reconstituted, refitted, and reinforced with replacement up to full strength in short order. The Allies were advancing further and away from their supply centers with long supply lines meaning they were vulnerable to German counterattack or getting bogged down against a German defense in depth with dug in troops in fortifications. The Germans were experts at taking shattered divisions and rebuilding them quickly. SHAEF was right,the Port of ANTWERP should have been opened FIRST What would the Wehrmacht have done, assuming Arnhem was successful? The Ruhr was what 50 miles away if that! The idea you can make one long extended penetration with long extended supply lines into northern Germany, along one axis of advance is IDIOCY . The Wehrmacht still had plenty of infantry divisions, armored division with military resources and capacity to fight in the autumn of 1944. The Germans would have had the advantage of interior lines of communications, nearby supply depots, and urban centers to concentrate a counteroffensive against any single attack into northern Germany across the Rhine via Arnhem. Does anyone think the Wehrmacht under Hitler was going to roll over and surrender in the fall of 1944? Specially after the allies demanded UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER? A successful attack across the Rhine could only be accomplished from MULTIPLE POINTS simultaneously. This action is exactly what happened in the spring of 1945. The air transports used for the FAILED Operation Market-Garden should have been used for fuel and ammo deliveries to supplement truck transport for Bradley/Devers advances. The American 82nd and 101st airborne should have been used as regular infantry divisions to spearhead attacks in critical sectors. Most importantly, using the 82nd and 101st for American infantry attacks would have kept them far away from Montgomery which would have been better for everybody.
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  783. You and history have but a fleeting acquaintance
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  784. Burns,Have that head wound checked out.I think monty's is getting a little rough with you in the tub again - ring the nurses station and report this
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  785. Go to bed johnny it's past 2:00 AMthere ,quit hiding behind the curtains ,call the Vicar maybe he can make the voices go away.And stop spooning with your Monty doll
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  786. 1940 British forces "evacuated" from Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk 1941 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya. 1942 Tobruk and Dieppe,Brookie and Bernard weren't the Bangers you bloviate about. Churchill should have left O'Connor/Auchinleck alone and promoted Slim just for starters. Ask the men with the nets to let you out in the court yard for a walk about just like Monty
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  787. David Irving Burns if the US was bad, then the British should have stayed home and saved a bunch of Englishmen.🤣 Monty lost a lot. What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials, and air support. And then barely....and poorly. Try reading the Full Monty,Lucian
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  788. Irving Burns One would say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all.Monty  Planned for retreat to Dunkirk before the Battle of France started in 1940. Over two years later won an unlosable battle at el Alamein. Second to Patton in Sicily even though Patton had twice the distance to Messina. Recalled from Italy after it turned into a slogging match in which even Clark took Salern & Naples. Took almost two months to take Caen, a day one objective. Late to close the Falaise Gap, blamed the Canadians. Failed to clear the approaches to Antwerp, blamed the Canadians. Delayed counter attacking in the Ardennes for three days The Generals Collins and Harmon went on the offensive for him. 4th over the Rhine after Bradley/Patton & the 291 US Engineers Now you know Johnny now you know 😆
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  789. Mikey have them dial back the voltage on the treatments, explain to the French/Dutch/Poles why Monty left them covering his retreat in 1940 while Monty was boarding the boats and they were taking bullets? Kind of explains why they came back with the GIs and took Southern France while Winnie and Brooke wanted to keep faffing around in Italy.
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  790. Monty couldn't have handled Lorraine.He couldn't handle the wide open Dutch country side,besides Metz was a fortifide Citadel - understand Lucian Every Operation given him started getting special attention,ya know so the Brits felt good about themselves.But the dweeb still ran things into the sand
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  791. You girls and your knitting circles - when your done cleaning your teeth with your fingers try leafing thru pages of a history book with them 1. Dr Forrest C.Pogue,interviews,US Army Military Institute,1947Montgomery's intelligence officer, Brigadier E.T. Williams. Pogue quotes Williams as telling him when Bradleys troops came up to the inter-army group boundary line, "Monty said tell Bradley they ought to get back. Bradley was indignant. *We [Williams and Freddie De Guingand, Montgomery's Chielf of Staff] were indignant on Bradley's behalf." Quoted in Rohmer's "Patton's Gap" and in Carlo D'Este's "Decision in Normandy," p. 449,450. 2. Maj-Gen. Francis De Guingand, "Operation Victory," p. 407. "My impressions at the time were that he [Montgomery] had been a little to optimistic about the probable progress of 21st Army Group*......*It is just possible that the gap might have been closed a little earlier if no restrictions had been imposed upon the 12th Army Group commander [Bradley] as to the limit of his northward movement." Since De Guingand was unaware of any discussions Eisenhower and Bradley may have had, the order limiting Bradley's northward movement must have come from Montgomery. 3. Stafford Diary from Carlo D'Este, "Decision in Normandy," p. 441 Air Vice Marshal Stephen C. Strafford was SHAEF's Chief of Air Operations and Plans. He was a British Officer with no ax to grind. He also kept a diary and on 14 August 1944, he recorded this statement from General Bradley at a meeting: "He [Bradley] states that the American forces had little opposition between ALENCON and ARGENTAN and had started toward FALAISE, but had been instructed by the C-in-C, 21st Army Group [Montgomery] to halt on the inter-army group boundary." 4. Hansen Diaries, Sunday, August 13, 1944, reads: "It is suggested in G-3 [Operations] that we were ordered to hold at Argentan rather than continue the drive to Falaise since our capture of that objective would infringe on the prestige of forces driving south [British/Canadians] ... Accordingly, our forces were held at Argentan and subsequently refueled while the British were still short of their objective [and] permitted much of the strength in the pocket to escape eastward toward the Seine." 5. Ralph Ingersoll, in his book, "Top Secret," writes about Patton's Third Army and the Falaise Gap: "Montgomery, who was still nominally in charge of all ground forces, now chose to exercise his authority and ordered Patton back to his side of the ... boundary line." Ralph Ingersoll, Top Secret, p. 190 George Patton and others said the same thing. He was guessing that the reason Montgomery halted the Americans was a combination of jealousy and ignorance of the situation. As it turned out, it was a pretty accurate guess. 6. Both British Air Chief Marshals Sir Arthur Coningham and Sir Arthur Tedder said that Montgomery was responsible for the 'halt order.' According to Antony Beevor, Tedder said, "One of Monty's great errors was at Falaise. There he imperiously told US troops to stop and leave the British area alone. He didn't close the gap
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  792. Even Alan Brook pointed at the tired little fart From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem"
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  793. Blisterhead Burns burped Montgomery never planned or was involved in the execution of Market Garden, ------------------------------------------------- Yes he did,then he gave you a bath later,rub-a-dub he dropped you in the tub
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  794. More BS from the Cornhole Chronicles https://www.historynet.com/eisenhower-fire-1944-45.htm Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them. Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance.*Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through the Germans and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe
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  795. Your source is full of shit .IKE would never give the moron that amount especially when SHAEF was against it - even Alan Brooke and Admiral Ramsey said so. As The Ruhr was right there and sending everything by Rail.Model and Student -who were there saw to that.Try one of the other aliases on your account From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easilysaid Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  796. That was a whale not a whisker and it's name is Monty.You have your head so far up his ass you can tell us what he had for lunch
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  797. already left the facts and embarrassed you on the other thread - that is why you ran over here popping off.Even the Gerries and Monty blamed Guards Armored.That's your only chance hoping others will chase you around - because you're 55 yr old virgin with 4 chins and nothing better to do
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  798. TheCrown made a Lord out of a Chicken(Carrington).A Field Marshall out of a Pedo(Monty).The could probably make a PM out of Burlesque Theater Janitor(Burns) - I'm guessing
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  799. You wrote the book on getting things wrong - you embellishments are all over the comment sections
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  800. he was a wag a 1st WW sargent and a bad one at that. An ankle biter passing himself off as a head hunter and in fact a impediment to the war effort no different than MacArthur - liars,laggards and braggart got run off the continent at Dunkirk,Got out commanded TOTALY in Sicily sat in Italy and absolutely stuck at CAEN, then didn't show up in Arnhem for his own operation petting his canaries and bunnies back at his caravan as 34,400 troops go into the Netherlands and 17,00 come out and he wasn't around to share that fate. " it boggles the imagination at what the allied armies might have done to the Wehrmacht with out Montgomery working so effectively for them"
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  801. Those are actual facts stopp reading the crowns comics he got tossed off the continent at Dunkirk when the odds were even.He is only studied as a bad example
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  802. British twaddle, and a Quote a Hungarian Poster Monty lost a lot. What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials, and air support. And then barely and poorly.Britain had a chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940. She failed utterly and miserably. From that point onward, whatever Britain does and regardless of what happens to her - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US. In that order
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  803. Pinhead try using that 2nd brain cell and come up with your own materiel
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  804.  @pearly872  great post and accurate
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  805.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  that's an asshole for you,even opposing soldiers for the most part showed respect for those who gave all,save maybe the Japanese(then) but their society today is to be admired
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  806.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  impatient and maybe bi-polar,watch that desert generals video,Tim Collins makes a lot of good points
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  807. Vile Asston has shit on dead GIs blaming them for Monty's misadventure who never showed up for his own operation and Tankers that in fact sat and did not move. Pissing on dead GIs sent so his D-Day daddy who really wasn't so explain this Vile Asston.Just a coincidence?Sure it is ,of course Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 So Vile the Germans/GIs/Irish Guards are all in agreement. The Tanks sat after the 82nd crossed the Waal and Monty unlike a real Field Marshall Walter Model was nowhere around From September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 329-31 The 82nd lost 48 KIA,138 wounded,it was now the British allies from XXX Corp turn to roll over the bridges with tanks and reinforcements and to fight their way to Arnhem to relieve the embattled countrymen from 1st Airborne.There wasn't a second to lose .In the Americans view the time to attack was right now,while the Germans were in disarray.Instead XXX Corp Tankers halted for the night,prompting a bitter dispute between the 82nd and Guards Armored. The 82nd just lost half of their men and the British Paras in Arnhem were being cut to shreds Carrington said "I can't go with out orders .Lt A.D.Demetras overheard Col Tucker arguing with Carrington "you'd better go! it's only 8 miles".To no avail the British tankmen refused to push for Arnhem that evening From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p309 at the North end of the Bridge Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Amored Division to push on immediately for Arnhem just 10 miles up the road.Their elation turned toward anger as the growing British force remained immobile..Capt.Burris was reportedly so furious he threatened the deputy commander of no.1 Squadron Capt.Peter (Lord) Carrington with his Thompson gun, Carrington dropped inside the tank and locked the hatch. Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp.General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." Gavin did not have an answer for him The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate.yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge.Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points.And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it *the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright, we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge. Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair
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  808. ​ @mathewm7136  the allies not that minstrel stopped it. O'Connor and Auchinleck/Dorman-Smith built that Desert Army. And Auchinleck won the 1st battle of El Alamein against ROMMEL. With ULTRA now supplied enemy movements. And the RAF and the RN strangling Rommel's supply lines and strafing the AK's columns during the day. Long before Monty sashayed in to the picture. The British & Allies won that Desert War but Monty took the credit. FDR himself gave Churchill 317 new Shermans and 94 105 mm self-propelled guns when news of the surrender at Tobruk came in. Along with the Torch Landings - forces included 60,000 troops in Morocco, 15,000 in Tunisia, and 50,000 in Algeria. After that Monty dithered with much greater forces - a malevolent drag on American Supplies,Men and materiel An Army at Dawn,by Rick Atkinson,p418-20 The British attack at el Alamein with more than 1000 tanks cracked the much weaker Axis defenders across a 40 mile front.The sheer weight of British resources made up for all the blunders,one account noted. Montgomery's 8th army hugged the Libyan coast much closer than it hugged the retreating Axis. Air Marshall Conningham said "once Monty had his reputation he would never risk it again" *The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddel-Hart,p.521​​ Montgomery was in a position to profit by the bitter experience of his predecessors .While supplies on our side had been cut to a trickle ,American and British ships were bringing vast quantities on materials to North Africa .Many times greater than either his predecessors had ever had. His principle was to fight no battle unless he knew for certain that he would win it .Of course that is a method which will only work given material superiority - but that he had. Command of a mobile battle force was not his strong point​British officers made the error off planning operations according to what was strategically desirable ,rather than what was tactically attainable" R.W. Thompson, Churchill and the Montgomery Myth, p. 92, 105. Retired British General Sir Francis Tuker offered perhaps the best appraisal of Montgomery's generalship: "If Monty is the best commander we had in the last war, then our standard could not have been very high." Raymond Callahan, Churchill and His Generals, p. 215. The truth is that Field Marshal Bernard L. Montgomery was probably the worst senior commander of any major combatant nation during World War II. British historian R.W. Thompson wrote, "Montgomery was completely formed as a soldier at the end of the First World War. He did not grow after that. He became increasingly efficient, but he did not absorb a new idea. At fifty he was the same man he had been at thirty..." Thompson quotes one of Montgomery's officers saying, "Monty was living in 1918 and never left it."
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  809. those were retrieved by actual participants and not your unsourced backside You poor trampled cabbage leaf, your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac bernard who in any other army would have been relieved or cleaning latrines This from a balkans poster: The malcontent Montgomery lost a lot. What he won - he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,air supremecy and ULTRA. Then barely and poorly. Britain had a chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940. She failed utterly and miserably. From that point onward, whatever Britain does and regardless of what happens to her - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US. In that order.
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  810. little villa have the nurses fill the tub there at the home so you can spalsh around and make like bernard in the Channel
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  811. I blame your history teacher,would that be Professor Burns?
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  812. Old Monty...at least the Japanese commanders had enough pride to disembowel themselves after failures like his.
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  813. You're right the Gerries were laughing so hard after seeing Montgomery at Dunkirk they couldn't defend themselves
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  814. Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches and ULTRA.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics From Blood,Sweat and Arrogance,by Gordon Corrigan,page 417-18 National myth has it that Monty took over a defeated,demoralized and badly led 8th Army,and by his own abilities and powers of leadership won the great victory of Alamein and then went on to drive the Germans & Italians out of North Africa in a whirlwind campaign that could not have been achieved by anyone else. We know this because Montgomery has told us so,not only by his masterly grasp of public relations at the time but in one of the most self serving memoirs ever foisted on the reading public ,one that did immense harm to Anglo-American relations after the war. From The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523 Erwin Rommel - "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces,, Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare .The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education" When interrogated in 1945, Heinz Guderian the Wehrmacht’s foremost practitioner of Blitzkrieg, stated, “ General Patton conducted a good campaign. From the standpoint of a tank specialist, I must congratulate him on his victory since he acted as I would have done had I been in his place.”General Gunther Blumentritt We regarded general Patton extremely highly as the most aggressive panzer-general of the Allies. . . His operations impressed us enormously probably because he came closest to our own concept of the classical military commander. He even improved on Napoleon’s basic tenets The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61 "Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us.He could have done it with out any danger to himself.Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed" Ladislas Farago Patton:Ordeal & Triump(New York:Astor-Honor, Inc., Inc.1964)h,p.505 'If Manstein was Germany's greatest strategist during World War II, Balck has strong claims to be regarded as our finest field commander. He has a superb grasp of tactics and great qualities of leadership' - Major-General von Mellenthin General Balck, commenting on the Lorraine Campaign, said: "Patton was the outstanding tactical genius of World War II. I still consider it a privilege and an unforgettable experience to have had the honor to oppose him" From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS,Transcribed By Major Gary Wad "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks, also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce.But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything. Monty was a good general, I've always said, but never a great one.
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  815. The 1st Para almost got wiped out the 82nd didn't.The 82nd stayed mobile and protected it landing zones to get resupplied.Drops came in for 3 straight days and LZs got attacked twice.Had Monty been this stickler to detail that loons like you proclaim he would have noticed this.Unlike Model,Montgomery wasn't really a Field Marshall - more like a field mouse
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  816. The dithering at the Belgian Border by Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandaleur until 2:30 in the afternoon watching planes cost them 8hrs watching the planes fly over. I'd say monty appeared lost but as you know by now he never appeared at all - MONTY Garden
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  817. Yup more of a Rear Admiral than a Field Marshall
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  818. From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him
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  819. The 82nd had nothing to do with Monty's poor planning and XXX Corps slow progress or the Germnas still between Nijmegen and Arnhem.Or the Gerries pouring in from the Ruhr.Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger
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  820. sure he was lil'villa probably in the home guard hiding behind pops villa at the Ale House
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  821. Cornhole you poor trampled cabbage leaf Monty was awful at commanding. Terrible. As in, no fucking good here you go 3 of the 4 Historians will tell you how bad all British https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1419 -Hollywood wasn't there when 198,000 Tommies got tossed into the Channel - Monty was. -Hollywood didn't make 81,000 Tommies surrender at Singapore, -Hollywood didn't sign a deal with The Reich annexing the Czech Republic - Britain did. -Hollywood didn't tell Britain to not cross the 30 mile channel for 4 full years after Dunkirk. -Hollywood didn't fill ship after ship with tanks,trucks,,halftracks,men,material,munitions, planes,provisions,food,fuel for the duration of the war to prop up the crown. -Hollywood didn't promise that Caen would be taken in D+1,Monty did and finally took it 43 days later. -Hollywood didn't promise before Market Garden that they'd go to Berlin and didn't even make it to Arnhem,Monty did--Hollywood didn't give 16 U.S.Divisions to Monty's 21st Army Group and was practically the last one to cross over the Rhine with them -Monty didn't destroy 90% of German Armor Allied Air Corps did. From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 116 Britain's war effort even after just one year of conflict - had placed an intolerable burden upon her finances and her future was now in the hands of The United States of America.Without American aid and assistance above and beyond the commercial basis of "cash and carry",Britain would not be able to continue the War. From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 454 By April 1945 the 61 American divisions formed the bulk of the Allied Armies,supported by 13 British,11 French,5 Canadian and one Polish.While Britain was now a significant ally amongst many,the United States emergence as a superpower was now all but complete -Hollywood didn't say that a British Historian/Scholar with a PHD did. The Crown always fights to the last colonial, usually Australians
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  822. The Crown was broke and so is your brain.That's why they finally ponied up their debt to the U.S Taxpayer about a decade ago.But the cost overruns of keeping you in the home may send them into the Abyss again.Sad but true
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  823. Puddles you polluted rube that's from a Brit that graduated from King's College I believe with a PHD in History - hence the DR in front of his name .Now get back to mopping the Adult Theatre
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  824. That when it comes to military history you know where it's at - why you don't go and find it I don't know
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  825. John Burns Some facts for you. The British were the single biggest agents in the defeat of Nazi Germany. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Derp,pffft, - Puddles you wouldn't recognize a fact if one blew up in your face and circled around and bit you in your bloated British bum.But you are right.Otto and Hans were laughing so hard at you wankers they couldn't defend themselves - so you have that going for you
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  826. Keep it up John you'll graduate from idiot to imbecile in a decade or two .
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  827. Novelist Grandiose played you two deluded dweebs like a cheap violin.You're just upset that he's better at it than you tired twits - you make me Larf Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 318 Eisenhower thought Montgomery was a psychopath suffering from an inferiority complex Ike and Monty:Generals at War,by Norman Gelb,page 329 Monty's egocentric nature made it impossible for him to respond to complex situation in which he found himself by insisting he had not been mistaken about anything. Monte,Making of a General,by Nigel Hamilton,page 278 Montgomery's stepson John Carver talked about his "....schizoid tendencies engendered by his upbringing..." Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 317 Montgomery got along with neither the Americans nor the Canadians.After Dunkirk the French absolutely refused to serve under a British commander.Such widespread mistrust of the little British General did not bode well for future Allied operations in which Monty played a role. For a host of reasons Montgomery's usefulness came to an end in Normandy,probably with in a few weeks of the invasion.Any other British General could have done as well as Montgomery did at Caen;and very few would have handled the Battle of the Falaise Gap so incompetently Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 319 Montgomery's irrational behavior at the Falaise Gap was also influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman..." Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 320 The poor performance of the British 2nd Army in Normandy had tied Monty's hands.He did not expect the Germans to be that good.But when the Americans broke the German lines at St Lo instead of turning the Americans loose on the open German flank,Montgomery stopped the Americans at Argentan and sent them North east to Paris-orleans gap.There were simply too many bitter pills on Montgomery's desk.He could not allow the Americans,especially George Patton to take Falaise away for m his 2nd British Army regardless of the cost
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  828. More bullshit from the home.3 of their mathematicians broke it before they invaded.They were ushered away to Bletchley to help the precious crown .You lying creep https://www.warhistoryonline.com/featured/polish-mathematicians-role-in-cracking-germans-wwii-codesystem.html or try this https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/03/15/polish-codebreakers-cracked-enigma-before-alan-turing/
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  829.  @renard801  Do have any more of those rare gems you have mined today,you poltroon?Sources? there weren't entire army on his flanks. You talk more crap than MacArthur and Monty combined.SOURCES - AND i don't mean your backside that you fetched that mess out of,Corrupting fact,LMAO.There weren't constantly overhead - you are in over your head,there were never Enough air support and your so called Field Marshall wasn't there to direct.He was made very aware of not only of the the 9 & 10 SS refitting in Arnhem but the the weather and shortage of flights. Market Garden was over 300 miles up into NE Netherlands(ONE WAY) not 30 miles across the Channel.There wasn't continued air cover,you throw crap against a wall and hope some one as lopsided as yourself believes it And XXX Corp they didn't cross the Nijmegen bridge until 7:10 PM on the 20th.That's over 3 days from the morning of the 17th. Do the Math - not the Meth
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  830.  @renard801  they didn't cross the Bridge until 7:10 PM on the 20th.Over a day late then sat going no further.Carrington was certainly no lord.And Monty still hadn't gotten off his absent arse to attend to his operation like an actual Field Marshall Model
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  831. Again renard - when you are done picking your nose try using that finger to flip thru a history book. Monty knew less about amphibious landings than you do about him - scary. The berk had 6 months to plan Caen that he ran into the sand the 1st 2 days. Adml Ramsay and a team of American officers planned the actuall landings - as thy had been doing them Island hoping in the Pacific damn near every day for over 2 yrs by then. Monty? Pffft he only knew how to run off a beach - not attack one
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  832. 10400 go in 2100 come out that's how so!!! Brian Urquhart and Bedell-Smith both warned your favorite tart about the 9th & 10th refitting in Arnhem ask the men with the nets to loosen your ankle monitor and perhaps they'll let you in the library . Take your tart Lyndon with you
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  833. The mongrel Monty had 4 full years to come across a crummy little channel and only did when the Pedo road the Gis coattails
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  834. To quote someone who lives there,Oddball SOK - wrote and isn't it ironic that the biggest Rhine bifurcation was the WAAL at Nijmegen and the 30crps effectively HAD crossed the Rhine and all they had to do is do the same as the Germans at Pannerden Ferry:PUT TANKS ACROSS THE Pannerden and you were in free accessible German tank land !Only a small river Oude Ijssel at Doetinchem (which was there too after Market Garden ;p )and go go go into das deutsche Reich?!Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come ? How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over,under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November Just look at it at google maps: the river looks like nothing.... And it still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction
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  835. Bradley never got kicked off the continent like the dainty yapping jackel bernard.Who waited for the GIs before he stuck his toes into the channel again. John Burns he was worse at commanding than you commenting - hard to believe,tis true More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  836. No sources quit talking shit.Bernard 6 weeks then dithered during Goodwood and Falaise - not wanting to get embarassed again.The Panzers decided where they went Monty lost over 4oo tanks you dweeb and 30,000 Anglo-Canadian soldiers were killed. 80% of the town was destroyed and it lost 3,000 of its inhabitants.The number of tanks given as lost by most historians – more than 450 of the 750 or so British vehicles of this type taking part – is also misleading. While 217 British tanks were destroyed during the operation, the remainder of that 450 were damaged or abandoned – but, significantly, they were repairable. And, as the figure of 217 accounts for the entire British Army sector in Normandy, it’s highly likely that some of these tanks were lost in other areas. from History xtra and the Liberation Route
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  837.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  I get that though this blisterhead who has never served or even read a book spouts drivel like metz - probably the hardest obective to take in the west. Anyway Monty was chastised by Bradley no less for doing nothing and sitting for 6 hrs after a bombing run By the time troops were ordered forward the Germans came out from behind cover and took up the old positions,Really they should have just encircled them,by 3 weeks with no food or ammo getting in or out they would have starved - food/fuel/ammo/water
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  838.  @michaelkenny8540  you slappie no sources again,get the ankle monitor removed then you may takle history. Mikey it's alright - IKE bares some of the responsibility by stringing Monty along letting him believe he was something he wasn't - a Field Marshall. After the GIs arrived Monty didn't get Dunkirked again - imagine that
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  839. Um no like you monty was no where around - and liked little boys. Is that why he was your hero little villa? Read the Full Monty his biggest fan Hamilton wrote it. Shocking I'm sure you'd agree
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  840. The Second World War by John Keegan p. 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary
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  841. the same part Monty did
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  842. Little Villa,Monty got his ass kicked - well no he didn't,like you he was no where around. The British Pathfinders were taken prisoner - along with their radios.see what happens happens when the Germans had their own ULTRA. Tough one Little Villa so you might want to ask: Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  843. Burns you're getting dizzy from inflating your date repeatedly. Take a deep breath.......for 20 minutes So let's review shall we, ♦️did you visit those fine Czech folks like I told you to? ♦️Did you explain why your crown sold them out to the NAZI's in 1938 with no representation ? ♦️Did you explain to the French why you left them covering your retreat in 1940 while Monty was boarding the boats and they were taking bullets? Kind of explains why they came back with the GIs and took Southern France while Winnie and Brooke wanted to keep faffing around in Italy. ♦️How about the Dutch did you tell them why Monty left them on the horn of the Hun and the Honger Winter that followed after Monty didn't have the nerve to show up for an operation that he bragged would take him to Berlin that took him backwords to Antwerp? ♦️How come Field Marshall Walter Model and General Kurt Student were able to ferry tanks and troops across rivers/canals under the ever watchfull RAF,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November!!! ♦️ Did you visit Monty's statue in Arnhem ? - oh that's right there isn't one ♦️And pick up your plastic army soldiers also mum may may slip when at home. And help with the groceries this time you lazy lump
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  844. Johnny - which so called empire fought to the last colonial - ask Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and especially India & the Irish .Hint the same empire that took 4 years to come back to the same continent that it only took 20 days to leave from? Tough one Johnny so you might want to ask Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  845. You and Ike have a lot in common - neither was ever driven from the continent. Monty and you and your UNCLes have a lot in common none of you attended his Monty Garden disaster,your favorite color actually - YELLOW
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  846. Dave hack when you are done with your fauntleroy fantasies read or have read to you what the Germans stated 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p. 215,Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit: The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent. If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. 'Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'It was a lost chance It Never Snows in September Robert J Kershaw, p.231-233 on the 1st day of the landings the Hohenstauffenn captured a British Officer in possession of the ground marking instructions to indicate drop zones "It Never Snows in September" page 285 Robert Kershaw XXX Corp was paying the price for committing it's entire offensive force along one road to reach the besieged airborne divisions.It's forces snarled up in such a narrow corridor that was proving difficult. "It Never Snows in September" page 306 Robert Kershaw​ XXX Corp advancing along one easily defended road was never able proportionally to match the German build up,and achieve the odds ratio necessary for rapid success. More specifically it was never able to push forward sufficient infantry by ground or fly them in by air,to secure what were essentially infantry objectives. This was of crucial signifigance because General Gavin's 82nd Airborne lacked sufficient infantry to storm the Nijmegen bridges before the arrival of XXX Corp on 20 September "It Never Snows in September" page 307 M-G was condemned therefore,to move in the Allies favor only at XXX Corps laborious pace through the airborne corridor.Progress was made difficult and the road cut on at least 2 occasions by the sudden deployment of newly arrived German Panzer & infantry forces. If you ask me nicely I'll provide the Irish Guards and GIs stating much of the same - MONTY GARDEN
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  847. Burns.If you got out the telescope you could see the rest of Europe flipping off the Burns family of Gummy Bears,whilst sitting on the White Cliffs of Dover
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  848. General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops .At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend."With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions". General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt.
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  849. With exactly how much help from the British did the USA get?After IKE stopped 3rd Army - IKE almost had a mutiny on his hands.But GIs off to help monty at Market garden and Crossing the Rhine.Yet the rancid runt screamed for more provisions even after he perfectly fucked up his own plans.O'Connor,Alexander,Slim,Auchinlech - Britain had good generals but Monty wasn't one of them
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  850. Yes veritas et caritas is critical of his carnival barking and British homeboy bombast.The rest of the net is finally catching on
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  851. Bullshit artist I've pointed out the quotes Ramsay,Tedder and certainly Brooke were at the sept 4th conference and all point right at Monty - who years later admitted it
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  852. You change the content then post it you bent freak here is what happened Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. page 19 Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp. From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant,p. 219 From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944:* "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  853. Asking cornhole for advice on history is like asking Stalin for advice on world Peace.Speaking of Stalin he also pointed out Churchill's footdragging - Joe knew who wore the pants
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  854. Johnny apparently fell off the merry-go-round again while sipping the scotch You poor trampled cabbage leaf write down what you know that should leave you with plenty of time to scribble more of your novels.Monty was running the wrong way the French were screaming sacre bleu, Guderian/Rommel were snickering on the Dunkirk shore and Stalin was like WTF. RUNAWAY - must be a monty thing
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  855. Johnny your hero demanded and got his single thrust and it failled like he did in Sicily,italy,Caen and Falaise. Damn near as bad as your personal life....almost
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  856. @@johnnycarroll4496 that guys is so bad even John Burns keeps his distance :face-blue-smiling:
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  857. Really just tired of repeating the same aswer to thicko psueds that keep repeating the same drivel.Go to Poland or the Czech Republic and tell them how great the crown is - then duck. Or you could make like Monty at Dieppe or Arnhem and never show up at all Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  858.  @davidrendall2461  nice write up thanx
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  859. And for that they are grateful you don't associate,🤣
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  860. @@johnnycarroll4496 Lathbury was wounded and worthless as was his Boss Urquhart as he was hiding from the Germans in an attic for 38 hrs and his boss monty well as you know got scarce as this very pathetic plan came aprt immediately. Brilliant British Planning - said no one ever
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  861. More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  862. When asked how Churchill plans to win the war he stated "I shall drag in the Undited States"
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  863. Why Johnny you can't with your head up bernard's backside
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  864. No the tanks stopped twice the irish guards said it,the Germans and GIs saw and recorded it,Monty didn't show up - no field marshall.Carrington stopped in lent - certainly no Lord - there are your cuplrits.Are you Monty's little swiss boy?
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  865. Dave Hack and little villa spewing more nonsense. Horrocks and Pip Roberts both stated after the war they could have taken not only the port but the estuary leading up to and open it when they arrived September 4th.Not over 2 and half months later. This is what happened when IKE allowed not only a very limited partner but a laibility in Monty have their way - DISASTER. Britain had much better officers - MUCH
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  866. Not this nut again The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.262-63 Brigadier E.T. Williams, Montgomery's Intelligence Chief cautioned the Field Marshall that the Allies "enemy appreciation was very weak" and that no proper study of the ground around Arnhem had been made . A radio decrypt also revealed the enemy expected a XXX Corp thrust toward Nijmegen. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.270 one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in the area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este​ from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex. British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed
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  867. Don't project your feelings of inadequacy onto me. and dry your eyes .You have accounts in 4 different names to agree with yourself .Now run along to TIK where you can sit in his lap and get patted on your empty head
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  868. @Achilles Smith well put,ya he explains his version that was the result of creative license
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  869. Exactly way too many "ifs"
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  870. Neither of those men are to blame - it's Monty who after hatching this very bad plan never had the nerve to actually show up - MONTY GARDEN,he had the spine of a gummy bear,and of course carrington stopped after 89 men from the 82nd were KIA crossing the waal.And mutts like Burns refer to him as LORD - there's the problem right there
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  871. Perhaps if the BEF didn't run away into the desert after Dunkirk those V-rockets could have been knocked out .You are the one popping off about the RAF why didn't they just fly the channel and do it? And the USA didn't starve 3/4 of million German ciizens to death during WW1 a violation of human rights and international law. Or shove the reparations of Versailes onto Germany in a war they didn't start. Britain did both, the USA did neither. What reparations did the Britsh EVER PAY to Ireland,India USA or South Africa?Or Germany for that matter?Long before Hitler/NAZIs. So when you pukes started to getting pounded no one was crying a river when your fauntleroys
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  872. you should do your own docus - seriously to balance out some of the dripping revision
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  873.  @fgfgdgdfgdfgiidfgdfgdfgdfgdfgd  truth
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  874. Johnny be a dear and pick up those plastic army men the nurses there keep slipping on them
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  875. He wasn't pressured into to squat he asked for and got this operation then turned yellow and didn't even show up to command. As the plan unraveled 3 miles in as Panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans
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  876. Burns go share your novels with your special needs class or the Poles that got ran thru the shredder .You troubled tosser get help. In case your handler didn't read it to you last time,from a PHD of course to you it means piled,higher and deeper - MONTY GARDEN ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p49 Major General Richard Gale who converted the British Airborne from a small group of Raiders into a conventional parachute brigade in confidence told Major G.G. Norton in the '70s then curator of the Airborne Forces Museum *"that he would rather have resigned his command than execute MARKET as it was foisted on Urquhart".It is unclear if Gale made his views clear to Browning at the time ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p111 This plan got blasted 3 miles in when Panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans and continued to collapse on it's self going forward. Viktor Graebner of 9th SS Panzer had 30 armored halftracks,10 - 8 wheeled armored cars and a number of trucks ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p145 the Irish Guards were an hour and 11 miles behind when it's tanks rolled into Valkenswaard main square on the night of the 17th and Horrocks no movement after dark extended this shorfall to 12 hours at a stroke. It remained to be seen if Guards Armored Division would prove capable of moving the following day with sufficient dispatch to make up at least some of the lost time From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright,we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair
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  877. they gave the troubled little yellow tart everything and the tosser failed to show - kind of like you in real life
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  878. Both are much better than the revisionist hack TIK who quotes a guy(Poulussen) who was a photographer that could not identify an M-1. Hastings/Beevor have an extensive bibliography,acknowledgements and footnotes have been peer reviewed and vetted and won every literary award for history there is
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  879. Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.202 Nothing whatsoever in Monty's D-Day plans notes or speeches ever alluded to holding on to the left permitting Bradley to take Cherbourg and break out on the right.​ Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.171 Not surprisingly nowhere in Dempsey's diary or notes for this period is there any mention what so ever of a British strategy of attracting and pinning down Rommel's reserves Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.204 Brigadier Edgar "Billy" Williams was a brilliant scholar and an Oxford don. For nearly 3 years he was Montgomery's senior intelligence officer and privy to all of his plans. "we did not expect the bulk of German armor against 21st Army Group. Monty tries to change the story" Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.210. Brigadier E.J.Foord Deputy G-2 of SHAEF told Liddell hart,recorded in 1946 "Foord thinks that it was only when Monty failed to make progress in the Caen sector that it was always been realized that the bulk of the German forces would tend to be drawn in the Caen sector but he never heard any theory to draw them in there deliberately. Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.247 SHAEF and COSSAC Planning Officer, Brigadier Kenneth G. McLean is quoted as calling Monty a "big cheat" in his claims: "for Montgomery to say that he was holding the Germans so Bradley could break out was absolute rubbish and a complete fabrication that only developed after he was stopped outside of Caen"
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  880. "Sigh" Monty intended to get a headline then didn't show up. Again from the top - all British Officers from the meetings in September all privy to info & intel. Alan Brooke??? "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow." Monty admitting it after the war??? The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, p.303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "And here I must admit a bad mistake on my part –I underestimated the difficulties of opening up the approaches to Antwerp so that we could get free use of the port." (Montgomery’s memoirs, p297)​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal
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  881. lil' villa And Monty got driven from the continent and only came back when his bald friends who weren't allowed him to.And IKE liked Irish lasses and we won't bring up bernard's preferances. Do blather on about D-Day daddy you forgot to mention when boasting about mum taking gerry prisoners to geronimo and I
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  882. When you two are done pleasuring each other,wash your hands and pick up a WWII History Book
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  883. Ya like at Dunkirk,Aerial & Naval Bombardment save the runt
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  884. Johnny Burnhole has monty been getting rough with you in the tub again?Ring the nurses station and report this
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  885. From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 281 Montgomery monitored the battle through liaison officers and radio reports.He had neither visited the battlefield at Market Garden nor seen his field commanders; he was having his portrait painted,again and seemed intranced by the experience,boasting that his likeness would "create a tremendous sensation at next year's Academy." Yet at 10:50 PM on wednesday he felt confident enough of the view from Brussels to cable Eisenhower: Things are going to work out alright...the British airborne division at Arnhem has been having a bad time but their situation should be eased now that we can adv- ance nothwards from Nijmegen to their support.There is a sporting chance that we should capture the bridge at Arnhem. In the subsequent message to Brooke,he added, "I regard the general situation on the rivers as now very satisfctory" This assessment was nothing less than hallucinatory.Despite the valor at Nijmegen,any "sporting chance" to take the Arnhem Bridge had passed..Things in Holland were not going to work out,even if the high command did not yet know it As XXX Corps account later acknowledged,"in front,on the flanks,and in the rear,all was not well."
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  886. From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 365-66 In fact the fundamental concept of Operation Market Garden defied military logic because it made no allowance for anything to go wrong,nor for the enemy's likely reaction .In short the whole operation ignored the old rule that no plan survives 1st contact with the enemy.Montgomery even blamed the weather not the plan,even asserting the plan was 90% successful because they got 9/10ths of the way to Arnhem General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops .At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after
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  887. From Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow .By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road.
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  888. From 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself.'Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'It was a lost chance: 'The Allied infantry were too late supporting their tanks'-
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  889. Graebner's 9th mechanized beat the 82nd to the Bridge - in armor no less.APCs,halftracks self propelled 20mm AA Guns.Not a lot foot soldiers with M-1s and Tommy Guns can do. You revisionist rube anything to get Monty off the hook
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  890. Are you Little Lucian,VA?
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  891. Puddles you're neither upright/civil/sane.have the men with the nets quit harrassing you?
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  892. The Port wasn't opened until November 28th you revisionist hack
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  893. Nice try VA,what's wrong no back up from your posse
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  894. Don't dare lump the canadians in with Monty - he left them die on the vine during the battle of the scheldt.The absent ass's plan came apart almost immediately then he left my canadian neighbors to clean up the the mess monty left Leo Major, the most decorated Canadian soldier of WWII From the Ottawa Citizen,May 7th ,2005 Mr. Major less than charitable to Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery, who headed up British and Canadian forces. Field Marshall Montgomery's ill-fated thrust deep into occupied Holland in the fall of 1944, a paratroop attack on river crossings, was an utter failure and undertaken at the expense of a broad steady advance. That delayed the the liberation of the country's biggest cities, Mr. Major figures, and condemned their populace to slow starvation through the infamous "Hunger Winter" that took the lives of 20,000 Dutch civilians Pte. Major had an opportunity to express his displeasure with Field Marshall Monty soon afterward. It was during the battle for Scheldt, an estuary guarding the Belgian port of Antwerp. The exploit was supposed to win him a field decoration directly from the hands of Field Marshall Montgomery, but Pte. Major couldn't bring himself to accept. "He had made an awful mistake. I didn't like him at all.
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  895.  @jthunders  Just starting Brute Force,evidently Mr Ellis isn't a advocate of Bernard's so called commanding acumen
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  896.  @imperialcommander639  when he was born his parents were over 60...and cousins
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  897. Sorry johnny like your family Monty was no where around. Hell even YOUR "Lord" Carrington tried it for a minute or two
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  898. Over all commander should insist or cancel the glory grabbing egret owns this
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  899. Tell your tales to Europe,there was a reason the French came over with the GIs - Monty skedaddled running away into a fuggin' desert
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  900. Doubt it TIKs Market Garden Boards have more rhetoric than one of Goebbels diatribes
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  901. And John Burns is a British revisionist in the governments care with internet priviliges.And will stoop to anything to get Monty off the hook for Monty's very bad plan.Not unlike the other names on his account
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  902. Doesn't matter Monty owns it - along with IKE
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  903. John Burns bellowed: Did you read John Cornell's, TheVillaAston and my comments ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Holy Trinity of trolls - what a find,Johnny is a sick juvenile who has made up other accounts to agree with himself More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  904. Johnny your pants a filled again and you're blowing snot bubbles.Ring the nurses station Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.160 "In private to Herriman. "The PM bluntly stated that he could see no prospect of victory until the United States came into the war." Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.353 With Stalin, continued to seek bargains, but his expectations were pitched low. The American relationship ,however was fundamental to every of aspect war; to feeding British people; to all prospect of sustaining the Empire in the post war world DeGaulle said after Pearl Harbor; "well the war is over. Of course,there are more operations,battles and struggles ahead; but the out come is no longer in doubt. In this industrial war nothing can resist the power of American industry. From now on the British will do nothing with out Roosevelt's agreement." Churchill had cabled to Antony Eden who was en route to Moscow: "The acession of the United States makes amends for all, and with time and patience will give certain victory." Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.181-83 Churchill considered the Dec 7,1941 attack "a blessing.....greater good fortune has never happened to the British Empire." Churchill wrote in his memoirs: saturated and satiated with emotion and sensation, I went to bed and slept the sleep of the saved and thankful. One hopes that eternal sleep may be like that
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  905. You tripe talking troll write down what you know - hat should leave you with a plenty of free time.The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror.And the Krauts with incredible Joy
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  906. Again Puddles,answer these or the ward boy will not return your magazine's or the nurses remove your ankle monitor.And pick up your plastic soldiers off of the floor the Vicar slipped the last time he visited the Home Quiz: Who was Ground Commander for Operation Market?And why didn't he show up? which British Division failed to take any of their bridges? Which British general hid in a attic for 36 hours? Which 2 British Corps failed to provide flank protection? Which British unit was held up for a day by 4 guns at Aalst and while their officers were drinking champagne? Which British Army unit reached Arnhem from the South? Why were British signals so bad? Why did most of Monty’s Staff think Market Garden was a bad idea? Which British general left his men in the middle of a evacuation to go straight to Nijmegen? Which British commanders had a fighting match over command? Which British commander attack in wrong direction and lost his brigade? Why was the Arnhem Railway blow up with only 8 Germans defending it? Why did 1 and 3 PARA stop on the evening of the 17th? Why wasn’t the Heavedrop Ferry seized? How many British paratroopers surrendered? Why did XXX Corps stop at Valkenwaard on the 17th? Why was there a no night movement order in XXX Corps? Why did it so long to deploy 43rd Div?
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  907. Blister head Burns babbled:Rambo, the name the two British generals who were responsible for the execution of 'Garden' of Market Garden ---------------------------------------------------------- I agree both Monty and Horrocks should have been executed - along with you,for a debacle he admitted to - MONTY GARDEN.Sorry Johnny the plan failed everywhere much like your personal life .I'd say Monty appeared lost but the fact was he never appeared at all
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  908. @Answer Questions I'm humoring Blisterhead, Burns have the nurses there put you in the tub for a time out and then if your lucky they'll give you the Full Monty
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  909. Sorry Puddles Monty ignored both Brereton and Taylor,quit fetching history from your ample backside.There were 700 more flights than D-Day,they were longer and with over 2 hrs less daylight - and Bernard went ahead - MONTY GARDEN
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  910. They'll never remove your ankle monitor repeating such drivel. Best read what I wrote,then ask the Vicar for intercessory prayer
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  911. Burns you've done enough drugs to send sniffer dogs into early retirement .You seem angry did Monty miss your bubble bath - like he missed showing up for Market Garden Quiz: Who was Ground Commander for Operation Market?And why didn't he show up? From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p111 This plan got blasted 3 miles in when Panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans and continued to collapse on it's self going forward. Viktor Graebner of 9th SS Panzer had 30 armored halftracks,10 - 8 wheeled armored cars and a number of trucks From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p145 the Irish Guards were an hour and 11 miles behind when it's tanks rolled into Valkenswaard main square on the night of the 17th and Horrocks no movement after dark extended this shorfall to 12 hours at a stroke. It remained to be seen if Guards Armored Division would prove capable of moving the following day with sufficient dispatch to make up at least some of the lost time From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p309 at the North end of the Bridge Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Amored Division to push on immediately for Arnhem just 10 miles up the road.Their elation turned toward anger as the growing British force remained immobile. LT Patrick Murphy from 3rd Battalion,504th Regiment climbed aboard Sg Robinson's tank and urged him to move only to be informed by the willing Robinson that he had no orders to do so.Capt.Burris was reportedly so furious he threatened the deputy commander of no.1 Squadron Capt.Peter (Lord) Carrington with his Thompson gun,Carrington dropped inside the tank and locked the hatch. Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." Gavin did not have an answer for him The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate.Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge.Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points.And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial The Grenedier Guards and the 2nd Battalion 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment were shortly to pay a high price for Brownings operational ineptitude
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  912. From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced -
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  913. Burns,I should be charging you for this,have the ward boy at the home there read this to U,even the Irish Guards were ashamed at their inactivity - good thing they never met your family - eh? From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright,we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped.I never felt so much despair
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  914. Burns the pathetic choad wrote:Browning, never told Gavin to de-prioritise the bridge The European Theater of Operations THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN By Charles B. MacDonald CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY UNITED STATES ARMY WASHINGTON, D.C., 1993 P157 General Browning, was "clear and emphatic" to the effect that the division was "not to attempt the seizure of the Nijmegen Bridge until all other missions had been successfully accomplished In his formal order General Browning stated: "The capture and retention of the high ground between Nijmegen and Groesbeck is imperative in order to accomplish the Division's task."
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  915. Burnhole your head is so far up bernard's backside you can tell us what he had for lunch.Outside of your posts being totally full of snot ,they're not that bad - well yes they are. Monty Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Bernard is handed command .SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly. .And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have been.Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics
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  916. Burns quit sniffing bowl cleaner when you're scrubbing the commode's - what so called Field Marshall gave young lads sponge baths and didn't show up for his own Operation in the Netherlands? Nor did the same wanker capture Erwin Rommel in 1500 miles with over whelming Allied advantages.
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  917.  @johnburns4017  Burns go visit Monty's Statue in Arnhem - oh that's right there isn't one 🤣 Why did monty cross the road? To help JOHN Burns with his ankle monitor 😁 Why wasn't Monty arrested for Buggery? Because it was the best time of John Burns life. 🤣 How did Monty cross the Channel? Getting his ass kicked out of France 🚑🚑🚑 When you're in hole stop digging dweeb😜 Monty was an ankle biter passing himself off as a head hunter RING THE NURSES STATION your pants are filled again.
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  918. Johnny Giovanni The Torch landings and 300 tanks and 100 self propelled artillery pieces form the States saved the waning Crown.Nice of the Poles to share the Enigma Codes with Blechley
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  919. Little Villa he was getting his picture painted and hadn't visited the front.That's what Field Marshall's do - they are at the battle to direct operations. Walter Model - was a Field Marshall,Monty a failed marshmellow. Oh and Villa IKE never ended up in the Channel - are you Lucian Treub?
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  920. @Answer Questions Burns has lied once and that has been continuously. And the word for him is impaired not imperative
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  921. UM NO
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  922.  @bogdanmariusz6384  Poland was a victim of positioning stuck between NAZI Germany and Soviet Russia.Because of centuries of continental warfare WW2 wasn't going to be extended
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  923. British forces that had been "evacuated" from -Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 -Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 -Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Then took 4 full yrs to come back across it's own Channel - after getting driven into it. If the USA was bad, then the British should have stayed home and saved a bunch of Englishmen - after having already used the colonials as fodder & sandbags that is.
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  924. just like your royals who invaded,sujugated,taxed then plundered other peoples shit. Except the USA whose teets you fauntleroys still suck
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  925.  @johnburns4017  you lampshade you've lied once - and that has been continuously ♦You think Monty could have inconvenienced himself to attend his own operational debacle that after the war he fessed up to? Largest Air Drop in History up until that point and the poof couldn't be bothered? There were cock ups all the way back to the Belgian Border and it didn't involve Gavin or the 82nd.Ya but go ahead and try to blame this abortion on an Americans 55 miles down the road. ♦Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:30 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like they had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. ♦Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bring the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but Monty's pathetic planning.This operation is a prime example of the clownish incompetence of his command. ♦And why did Monty and Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think while approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 4 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site ♦Why were Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September, not in October and not in November - you make me LARF Johnny
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  926. Monty admitted it arse whole,with out the GIs you got Dunkirked. Go ask the Europeans whose tank,trucks,artillary,hell fuel were all over.Empire,pffft go to the Czech Republic/Poland and tell them that
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  927. Monty was a failed marshmellow certainly no Field Marshall like Model
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  928. IKE knew as long as Monty was around the Gerries had a punching bag
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  929. The facts are Monty was a disaster every where,perhaps John Burns,you should get off your ample backside and maybe the nurses will walk you around the court yard there at the Center for the Disadvantaged.Ask them nicely and maybe they'll remove the ankle monitor
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  930. In Eisenhowers private transcripts at the Presidential library "....after we were ashore in Normandy we had not been achieving the advances that Monty that had earlier predicted on his maps. Mr Churchill expressed unhappiness at the lack of progress and the failure to capture Caen.Churchill came to see me one day accompanied by General Brooke.He pointed out the pre-invasion briefings and the seizure of Caen within 24 hrs had been assumed see johnny even IKE & Winston were led on by Monty's bollocks,much like you in the comment section' THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORMANDY: WINNING THE WAR THE WRONG WAY Montgomery emphasized that the Allies must quickly move forward and keep the initiative. He stressed that the main D-Day objective of the Second British Army was to take Caen . “Once we can get control of the main enemy lateral [corridor], Granville-Vire-Argentan-Falaise-Caen, and the area enclosed in it is firmly in our possession, then we will have the lodgement area we want and can begin to expand,” he assured his audience. The army that quickly gained control of this Caen-Falaise corridor would control the battle. This was borne out by subsequent events. A slow, safe advance would give Rommel the time he needed to reinforce and shift his troops across the battlefront to keep the Allies contained inside their bridgehead. For the Allies the very boldness of Montgomery’s plan to take and hold Caen on D-Day ensured its failure.
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  931. Hey johnny try your other accounts like Giovani Pierre 🤣. Too much of the crowns comics are bleeding out in this one
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  932. On a broad front it's just common sense the enemy can't focus on a single area and bring all their resources to bare . A break thru can be made in many places,Monty was given every courtesy/provision here and Caen and failed miserably .This was sheer idiocy and scarcely a trained eye couldn't see it
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  933. His record was broken.He was horrible at commanding.Terrible. As in no fooking good. Much like your commenting
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  934. So your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones. Monty is to military planning what a pinata is to Mexican celebrations :face-blue-smiling:. Market Garden is what happens when Monty was handed command - DISASTER . HQ realized giving troops to Monty was making Russian Generals look like humanitarians.
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  935. None of the objectives were met -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Walter Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched obviously sinking that excuse -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success
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  936.  @seth1422  I had read the 1,000 tank theory actually started with British Intel as they may have been confusing this with either the Ardennes or the Hurtgen. Poulussen supposedly presented this in his rag 1st however. But considering the allied attacks on German armor the Reichswald would be a good place to conceal/camouflage sizable units of armor from air recon or attack - so at least it would have to be considered
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  937. Have your cranium drained you dribbling Dolt.Nobody studies Monty or sources you LMAO.Monty gets lost,Carrington stopped - this got their sorry asses kicked off the continent in the 1st palce 🚑🚑🚑 The Bigs boys even let you tag along for a spell.I told you all this back in March.Conveniently you forget facts.I told you that you would get worked.You're flopping around like the Christmas Goose - only he had more brains
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  938. Dig it up and find it yourself little villa,oh that's right you don't do research - my bad
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  939. Ah another John Burns disciple repeating phrases from his Big Book Of Bollocks. This Operation was cancelled twice as both Linnet and Comet. Just because Monty got his mitts 2 American Divisions more didn't change the reason it was cancelled in the 1st place. Gotta love British Mythology,Bernard didn't show up and V-2s were still firing just another fine example of Bernard's clownish command
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  940.  @danwelch8547  great points but this guy is indigent in care of the government with internet privileges.He's a revisionist with no life and will make crap up while you do research.He's only an authority on the electro-shock therapy he receives.Over on another board he claims he doesn't even know who TIK is
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  941. Cancer sufferers?Hardly,you been shitting on GIs and blaming them for Montys very bad plan for5 years and more probably because you are the little swiss boy he cavorted around with.Sorry the soldier got killed but at least he didn't stop or not show up like Monty/Horrocks and most certainly chicken shit Carrington,Oh excuse me "LORD" Carrington.And 11,000 Tommies go in and 2,100 come out - not a dead GI's fault
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  942. Little villa been shitting on dead GIs who pulled your imperial inbreds out of the channel,dried you off and led you in the right direction. Ring the nurses station at the home there Maybe they can read you a fairy tail like THE FULL MONTY that's your hero
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  943. Bull crap ULTRA picked up their transmissions,like Monty they either lied or weren't there - a Burns specialty
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  944.  @jthunders  hey johnny Oddball is a rather well versed Dutch poster . So he speaks English better than we can Dutch so I cut him some slack. Good to see you post again
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  945. Lyndon you lump Bernard was given 34,600 troops and the mutt ran them down a single lane.Listening neither to ULTRA,Air Marshalls,Dutch Army advisors or Admiral Ramsay who knew the Port had to be opened to support such an advance. But Monty montied and the troops paid the price as he was a no-show. He serves as a bad example
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  946. In 4 yrs Monty couldn't cross his own channel - 4 YEARS until the GIs held his hand
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  947. John Burns would like to reveal another petulant knob to his sock account take a bow John Peate Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  948. The Russians and Americans needed no assitence in their broad front assaults like IKE propping up the crown.Lending the berk monty the 1st & 9th Armies frome december thru the Rhine Crossing. From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 365-66 In fact the fundamental concept of Operation Market Garden defied military logic because it made no allowance for anything to go wrong,nor for the enemy's likely reaction .In short the whole operation ignored the old rule that no plan survives 1st contact with the enemy.Montgomery even blamed the weather not the plan,even asserting the plan was 90% successful because they got 9/10ths of the way to Arnhem
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  949. https://www.historynet.com/eisenhower-fire-1944-45.htm Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them. Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance.*Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it. Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through the Germans and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe
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  950. Little Villa you going to send Mum,again? tell the troops how mum took some Gerries prisoners 🤣 -good times IKE wet nursed the failure for political puposes but even he realized he was a plug and not worth propping up
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  951. Exactly Monty off grousing around with the lads so let's find someone convenient to blame..Bernard immediately knew the plan was falling apart after Panzerfaust teams tear into 9 shermans 3 miles from the start.That XXX Corp statred at 2 PM in the afternoon then quit at 6.Real bangers there.Then Monty told both IKE and Brooke that things were going great guns when in fact they were stuck and taking losses.He did exactly that @ CAEN also - should have shot the asshole
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  952. The only one who knows less than you about it is TIK - Monty owns this and guards were not only late but then sat - with the backbone of a gummy bear.The Germans,GIs and Irish Guards all point this out in statements
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  953. Monty had 4 years to cross the channel with out the GIs - what was keeping him? Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of riches and every conceivable advantages.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics yet didn't corner Rommel over 1500 miles Montgomery was very much a set-piece general whose mental rigidity and egotism left him unable to respond when battles didn't go exactly as he planned.And whose skills and abilities were grossly inflated by the British press and political leadership.Montgomery who was busy fighting with set piece tactics from the last war never learned the tactics of high speed mobile,mechanized warfare. Unfortunately, Bradley and Eisenhower most probably acquiesed to Mongomery's demand for the sake of Allied unity. Monty, was lacking the flexibility for independent thinking necessary to adapt to changing conditions. From The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523 Erwin Rommel - "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education"
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  954. Auchinlech just won Alamein 3 weeks before winston removed him because he needed time to resupply and refit.So after installing Monty he told Winston the same damn thing and didn't go on the offensive for 9 weeks.This is the same PM that took 50,000 desert veteran troops from O'Connor a year and half ealier after capturing 133,000 italian soldiers,400 tanks and almost 1,300 artillery pieces.Then moved them to Crete that turned into a disaster in both places.
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  955. Ya more history form your ample backside as long as it gets the runt off the hook More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 Cheers mate
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  956. I'm more than happy to enlighten you dim bulbs
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  957. Vile pulls history from his backside and has been schooled with distressing frequency.The History was taken from accounts of real time and cached,battle plans,journals,accounts After Action Reports all of which villa hasn't stumbled on in his land of make believe.Ask him about Lucian Trueb.Ya American hacks,explain why the French came back across the channel with the GIs being traumatized once being led by Monty and Brooke,nice guys no battle commanders though
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  958. C'mon you're much smarter than that,please tell me John Burns didn't hi-Jack your account
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  959. Too bad Monty didn't go after the V-2 sites then actually he didn't go after shit because he was never on site to command squatLooking for a headline though
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  960. poor Villa did one of your stooges go missing?
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  961. Indeed Atkinson is one of my favorites - a Pulitzer prize Winner An Army at Dawn,by Rick Atkinson,p322 If the Germans were to survive inTunisia - they must break up the American assembly in the southwest.The leisurely pace of Montgomery's pursuit would allow Rommel's troops at least a fortnight of mischief in Tunisia while the rear guard barricaded the door at Mareth, the fortified line near the Libyan border An Army at Dawn,by Rick Atkinson,p418-20 .The British attack at el Alamein with more than 1000 tanks cracked the much weaker Axis defenders across a 40 mile front.The sheer weight of British resources made up for all the blunders,one account noted.Montgomery's 8th army hugged the Libyan coast much closer than it hugged the retreating Axis. Despite the enthusiasm for the amphetamine benzedrine which was issued in tens of thousands of tablets "to all eighth Army personnel by Montgomery pursuit after Alamein was hardly relentless".Rommel had escaped with the core of his army despite the advantage in tanks,an artillery superiority of 12:1 and an intimate knowledge of Axis where about and weakness thanx to ULTRA and other intelligence That lollygagging had allowed Rommel time to drub the the Americans at Kasserine Pass,return to Medenine for a drubbing of his own then slip away again.Air Marshall Conningham said "once Monty had his reputation he would never risk it again
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  962. Pounded again little villa by sources of your choosing, arather dim bulb you are
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  963. This channel is a shabby hamlet of fauntleroys and toffey nosed bastards. Britain fought to the last colonial - usually the ANZACs.As far as monty the molester Gerries weren't impressed by his pathetic plan 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p.194 both the 82nd Airborne and British Guards Armored were aware they were up against seasoned SS troops of about 500 that held the road held the road bridge.They were supported by an 88 mm gun on the traffic circle and 4 - 47 mm and a 37 mm with mortars in the Hunner Park. 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p. 215, *Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit: The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent. If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further. The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity. They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. 'Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.' It was a lost chance It Never Snows in September Robert J Kershaw, p.231-233 on the 1st day of the landings the Hohenstauffenn captured a British Officer in possession of the ground marking instructions to indicate drop zones "It Never Snows in September" page 285 Robert Kershaw XXX Corp was paying the price for committing it's entire offensive force along one road to reach the besieged airborne divisions.It's forces snarled up in such a narrow corridor that was proving difficult.
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  964. John Burns babbled Market Garden failed to be a 100% success by a whisker. ------------------------------------------------------- And that whisker was Montgomery.Attacking up an elevated 70 mile lane with a whole corp of Armor and no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly .So it makes perfect sense you'd like him
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  965. Um no again burnhole Carrington oh excuse me Lord Carrington sat on his ass while good men fought and died.The Germans there even brough up how the tanks sat while there was virtually nothing to stop them.That's why Horrocks himself called the Waal crossing the most gallant he witnessed during the war.I'll dig that quote up if you'll quit posting child
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  966. From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies.When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions..He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays.The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here,Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth.
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  967. No it was because if the 82nd showed the cajones they figured Carrington,oh excuse me "LORD" Carrington would do the same .To help the British at Arnhem but alas he sat like you in front of the keyboard. Well at least he tried fighting for a minute or two - unlike Monty who never showed for his own debacle
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  968. Monty was an ankle biter passing himself off as a head hunter RING THE NURSES STATION your pants are filled again. And by all means you can relieve me of furthering your education by using the address bar at the top of the page in front of your face,but you'll probably have to wipe the drool off the Keyboard 1st
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  969. Boy Burny you're dizzy from inflating your dates again. Has Monty missed your sponge bath - like he missed showing up for Market Garden?
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  970. How come Model/Student were able to ferry tanks and troops across rivers/canals under the ever watchfull RAF,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November!!!
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  971. This guy is a Monty Fanboi who ignores actuall events and covers for Monty's and his many cock ups. TIK is a gamer but since he props up the schlepper bernard the fauntleroys flock here
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  972.  @thevillaaston358  Maybe Corny can be the 1st mate on that ship,LMAO
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  973. He took 43 days after bragging he'd have it in a day with the heaviest bombing of Normandy.He couldn't direct mice in a maze Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.308 Patton confided to his diary "I went to see IKE at 1500 and he was back from France and a little fed up with Monty's lack of drive.His current plan is eventually to have 4 American Armies, with one small American Army for Monty, as the Britsh have reached their limit of 14 divisions. Why an American Army has to go with Monty, I do not see except to save face for the little Monkey After Patton's arrival on Normandy July 7th " had lunch with Bradley, Montgomery and DeGuingand.Montgomery went to great lengths explaining why the British had done nothing. Caen was their D-Day objective,and they had not taken it yet" Page 331 Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen
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  974. ya if you like fiction and are a fraudulent fauntleroys
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  975. Really
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  976. there was no honger winter from '39-'44 and they considered the dutch kinsman being germanic. Until Bernard left them on a limb. Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success."
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  977. Clearly they're not indoctrinated in this hive of hallucination - Cornell
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  978. Says the guy who thinks fire bombing ireland was a good idea
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  979. Burns if i provide the direct quotes again will you quit posting.Tell it to the french who took bullets while monty took to the boats - like your uncles
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  980. got more of those drugs Alastair?Gosh I wonder where you're from.Monty didn't best a tree stump.Patton schooled the Pedo the only time they were side by side.Not only was Monty an old Woman - but a lying one also.Caen,Falaise and Market Garden were all his debacle.Ike just let the berk sit at the big boy table out of consideration to the crown until he was faffing things up so bad he had to get shoved aside
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  981. ​ @nickdanger3802  William Weidners book is excellqnt.The sources and footnotes are all there.Solid and accurate even polluted rubes like Villa Burns can't can't dismiss the evidenvce but they'll never stop trying Ralph Ingersoll, in his book, "Top Secret," writes about Patton's Third Army and the Falaise Gap: Ralph Ingersoll, Top Secret, p. 190. "Montgomery, who was still nominally in charge of all ground forces, now chose to exercise his authority and ordered Patton back to his side of the ... boundary line." George Patton and others said the same thing. He was guessing that the reason Montgomery halted the Americans was a combination of jealousy and ignorance of the situation. As it turned out, it was a pretty accurate guess. Continued movement by Patton would have violated the boundary between Bradley's 12th Army Group and Montgomery's 21st Army Group Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 319 Montgomery's irrational behavior at the Falaise Gap was also influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman..."
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  982.  @nickdanger3802  Keep posting I read some of Rohmer,but the stop order was because of operational sectors.O'Connor ,Bill Slim or Auchinleck should have replaced Monty
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  983. Thanx I'm listening to Sherman vs Cats,so far very good
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  984.  @ToolTimeTabor  3T's are those your video productions? Also it's just wasted breath talking OMG fallacies unless the deep water port that could carry such an operation was open 1st. It still was a crap plan as we discussed a while back had Model listened to Bittrich/Harmel Nijmegen and even Arnhem bridges would have been dropped almost immediately - wasted trip,baby
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  985. As oppsed to monty who should be taken to the salt mine
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  986. Too bad TIK tries to bend the facts because he tries blaming everyone but Monty's plan and of course the Tankers arriving late - none of which the Germans state
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  987. Gavin and the Americans get driven from the continent or wait 4 yrs to across a 30 mile channel like you know lions like Bernard and Alan Brooke
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  988. Total Bullshit because of British generalship Ya know Dunkirk,Singapore,Torbuk,Dieppe,AGAIN THE USA had to sail men/material/food/fuel 3,500 miles.Britain basiclly sat on the sideline while the GI's adminsistered the coup de gras to the Reich at the Ardennes as Monty showed his wares by ducking out of Monty Garden.Go ahead haed across the channel and brag yourself up to other Europeans who remember the tale a lot different.Specially the Czechs and the French When interviewed in 1945, Heinz Guderian , the Wehrmacht’s foremost practitioner of Blitzkrieg, stated, “ General Patton conducted a good campaign. From the standpoint of a tank specialist, I must congratulate him on his victory since he acted as I would have done had I been in his place General Gunther Blumentritt : We regarded general Patton extremely highly as the most aggressive panzer-general of the Allies . . . His operations impressed us enormously, probably because he came closest to our own concept of the classical military commander. He even improved on Napoleon’s basic tenets From The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523 "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces, Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education" From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt.
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  989. The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p111 This plan got blasted 3 miles in when Panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans and continued to collapse on it's self going forward. Viktor Graebner of 9th SS Panzer had 30 armored halftracks,10 - 8 wheeled armored cars and a number of trucks From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p309 at the North end of the Bridge Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Amored Division to push on immediately for Arnhem just 10 miles up the road.Their elation turned toward anger as the growing British force remained immobile. LT Patrick Murphy from 3rd Battalion,504th Regiment climbed aboard Sg Robinson's tank and urged him to move only to be informed by the willing Robinson that he had no orders to do so.Capt.Burris was reportedly so furious he threatened the deputy commander of no.1 Squadron Capt.Peter (Lord) Carrington with his Thompson gun,Carrington dropped inside the tank and locked the hatch. Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp.General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate.Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points.And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south*. *By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September.Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial
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  990. Yup your boys faffed it up,Caen,Falaise,Monty Garden.Back to mopping the adult theater Johnny From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced -From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright, we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair
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  991. Tell your droopy delusions to the French and specially the Czechs. Puddles when they adjust your Prozac dose have the ward boy there at the home re-read those facts.I'd say Bernard appear clueless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all. Like a real Field Marshall Walter Model - Monty Garden 🎯🎯🎯
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  992. The point is on your head and no one believes your carnival barking you ankle biter,so my work here is done
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  993. Johnny why don't you have the nurses at the home there fill the tub for you. So as you can splash around and pretend make like Monty in the channel @ Dunkirk.But have the ward boy remove the ankel monitor 1st
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  994. Oh lookie Bernard's little swiss boy run amok squawking demented bombast. Puddles - The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror.And the Krauts with incredible Joy More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  995. Not this nutball again - before I give you any more history lessons,you'll have to pick up you plastic soldiers off of the floor over there at the home,it's really pissing off the nurses .Johnny read what Alan Brooke said,rather have your handler read it to you - Monty's fault ,the Air Marshall said it,the Admiral said it other Army officers said it.Ask your voices they'll even tell you.🤣 With every other army in Europe Monty and Brooke got swept off of the European continent in May 1940. And didn't cross it's own 30 mile channel until big brother took a break from hostilities in the pacific to cross the 3,500 Miles in the sub infested Atlantic.Just to chaperone the chaps that last 30 miles - kind of guys we are.
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  996. You best read those facts laid out infront of you and not Burns Family of Warblers
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  997. you either not american or unread as he is a nationilistc fanboi and this his cherring section
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  998. Monty got brow beat by everyone in SHAEF already left you those quotes but fumbling around in your land of make believe you enjot ignoring reality
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  999. General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops .At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend."With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions". General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt
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  1000. Dave Hack unlike you they were there and inteviewed by British war coorespondents and Historians Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it "the English stopped for tea" ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it "the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move" While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try too hard despite the urgency of the situation. Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.219 "Montgomery went over my head" Air Marshall Conningham recalled after the war. "Month after month he did that; until he had his failure at Arnhem - then they made him listen. He violated all command channels" "Monty's water logged summaries tried to hide glaring weaknesses of a hopelessly flawed plan" - Sabastian Ritchie.
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  1001. what so called "LORD" stopped in his tracks and went no further as the 82nd and 1st Para fought on. Must have been with the Burns Brigade
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  1002. it boggles the imagination at what the allied armies might have done to the Wehrmacht with out Montgomery working so effectively for them
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  1003. Burnhole,Um no it was MONTY a very small player on the winning team and lucky to be there at that
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  1004. Um no, Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeluer sitting on their backsides until 1435 the 1st day near Hechtel/Neerpelt, Belgium, Watching the Troop & Supply Transports flying over - did they think they'd catch up? - so much for speed and coming over the Bridge on time and in force. Making 7 miles from the Belgium border to Valkenswaard the XXX Corp drive stopped cold for 12 hrs. Getting 9 tanks destroyed with the column stopping & pulling up in Valkenswaard with over an hour of daylight left set the pathetic pace. And of course Monty not showing up like an actual Field Marshall Walter Model To prove this was no fluke why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think ? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site? Well enough of this I'll let you blame the 82nd AB on this fine Memorial Day
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  1005. It went off the rails in planning going up one lane/route for basically 70 miles created too many choke points all along it. Clausewitz warned against marching through a valley without having taken the hills. Market Garden was the equivalent of doing just that.Having only one road to advance upon should have been warning enough not to undertake the operation.
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  1006. @Johnny Carroll problem was Model was actually reacting to the situation unlike Montgomery who was nowhere around. The Ruhr was just around the corner 50 miles distant if that. And Model/Student had used the rails magnificently. That's another thing Student had dropped his fallschimjager troops right there 4 yrs previous - he was familiar with the lay out. Model and Student vs Monty might as well been Atilla and Ghengis vs Tinkerbell - the Tommies deserved better
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  1007. @Johnny Carroll he knew moving forwardit was a debacle or that he was stretching it. It's not the setbacks or defeats they all have them - it's monty's deliberate distortions and out right lies - that IKE of all people ended up covering for. At both Caen and Monty Garden bernard lied to both IKE and Brooke ,telling them things were fine and moving as expected than DARE admit his plans had come appart. This is why he always insisted to IKE to give him everything, so know on else could possibly show him up. Rather than concern himself with allied objectives . He did this in Normandy and Netherlands - and damn near got sacked . It was Freddie that saved his bacon twice writing up apology letters and having monty sign them
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  1008. @Johnny Carroll Seems that Brooke was the only one to reign him in. IKE also but he gave him too much leash much more than the US Officers. IKE also evidently was concerened with Stalin's intentions so wanted to give the Reds this bold look of solidarity
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  1009.  @thevillaaston7811  They had the pathfinders and their radios. And Poof Monty was nowhere around as was expected unlike an actual Field Marshall Walter Model
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  1010. @Johnny Carroll Biggest air drop up to that time and he couldn't be bothered? LIke we discussed the Enemy gets a vote,an actual Field Marshall would have been there directing in person
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  1011. he was getting his portrait painted,I'll have to dig that up Hamilton is as much if not more of a PR man than a biographer. Monty got scarce as things came apart.Hamilton's father was a friend and Newspaper man or sum such who wasn't opposed of giving Bernard a headline this is how nigel knew him
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  1012. Carrington stopped in Lent and Harmal explained to Robert Kershaw that there were not artillery installations between Nijmegen-Arnhem just a couple of units 'It Never Snows in September' by Robert J.Kershaw,map reference pages 192-193 The German Defense of Nijmegan 17-20 September 1944.The KampfgruppeHenke initially established a line of defense outposts based on the two traffic circles south of the railway and road bridges on 17 September.The 10SS Kampfgruppe Reinhold arrived and established the triangular defense with Euling on the road bridge,Henke and other units defending the approaches of the railway bridge,and his own Kampfgruppe on the home bank in the village of Lent. A surprise assault river crossing by the U.S. 3/504 combined with a tank assault on the road bridge on 20 September unhinged the defense.The Waal had been secured by 1900.There was nothing further barring the road to Arnhem 17 kilometers to the North. 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 201. SS Captain Carl-Heinz Euling came to a decision "the 1st enemy tank was able to pass over the road bridge during the evening of 20 september,the railway bridge had already fallen* 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 215 Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit:The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." ULTRA in the West,p,153,Bennet - On September 14,ULTRA reported that Walter Model commanding Army Group B had established his HQ at Oosterbeek,on the outskirts of Arnhem. An ULTRA report of Sept 16 placed the 9th SS and "probably" the 10th SS Panzer Divisions in Arnhem itself. These reports proved to be absolutely accurate. While conferring with Monty, Bedell-Smith called attention to the ULTRA dispatches indicating the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were now located in Arnhem. Owing to this danger, Smith urged Monty to shift an additional airborne division to drop near Arnhem. But Smith recalled "Montgomery ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airily away" (The Siegfried Line campaign : U.S. Army in World War II,by Charles B.MacDonald,p.122)
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  1013. @Johnny Carroll Little villa ignores post after post for 5 yrs now asking for evidence when it's provided he runs away to another board and repeats his drivel. That's why he and Burns either are the same guys or suffer froms the same delusions and denials as they simultaneosly flock to the same discussions. Chester Wilmot was a cheerleader(war coorespondent) who accompanied Monty's Army, so some of the master's novelish mischief obviously rubbed off on him ask little villa if he'd like pretty much all of SHAEF's statements on the matter. Which he gleafully ignores,men there in real time and in the know. Monty owns it at Caen,Falaise and Monty Garden. Even Monty's Men like Horrocks and Deguingand point at Monty when they were no longer under him Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb,page 409 There were many reasons why Montgomery was being effectively downgraded once more. *Eisenhower had no doubt any longer that his reputation as a battle-winning commander was greatly inflated. The experience at Caen,Antwerp,Arnhem and delays in following up the Ardennes assault and the excessively thorough build up for the Rhine crossing provided sufficient evidence for that.General Whitely IKE's British Deputy Chief of Operations,said the feeling at Allied HQ "was that if anything was to be done quickly,don't give it to Monty. Monty was the last person that would be chosen to drive on Berlin - he would have needed 6 months to prepare" The Second World War by John Keegan p. 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary
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  1014. Maybe maybe not but these arseholes throw the men who died at the waal crossing under the bus to prop up a fraud who did not even show up. It was the plan and always was but they start in on men who lost their life. 48 of the 82nd men died during the crossing another 135-151 seriously wounded. I had read in the months after many dying from those wounds had reached 89. I presented to TTT last year that what if Model drops the bridges immediately like Bittrich and Harmal wanted to do in the 1st place. That's how bad Bernard's supposed planning was and IKE knew fron Caen and Falaise. Every British para from Oosterbeek- Arnhem was prisoner and everyone south had to turn around and perhaps try the route the Dutch suggested 1st. And it's a LIE that had any of them made or even crossed over the Arnhem Bridge they do anything but get killed or captured. It's truly amazing how unread or unwilling to admit fault are in these ranks
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  1015.  @ToolTimeTabor  Agree with much but No it's on Monty he pitched a bitch to get this then buggered out. The 82nd had nothing to do with Monty's poor planning and XXX Corps slow progress or the Germans still between Nijmegen and Arnhem. Or the Gerries pouring in from the Ruhr.Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger Student in fact landed in this very area 4 yrs earlier and knew the lay out. And Gough didn't have access to ULTRA that Monty ignored . I've stated before and this has been brought up by many times by historians Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:33 in the Afternoon at the Belgian Border? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. Do you think Guderian,Rommel,Stone Wall Jackson,O'Connor, Balck would find this permissble? And why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think ? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site? That alone shoots down Gavins fault theory
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  1016. Elements of the 82nd did arrive at the south end of the bridge on the 17th The 9th SS Panzer sent Viktor Graebner that had APCs with mounted MG42s and Halftracks with mounted 20mm AA guns that chopped them up. The 9th were driving Gavin's boys were on foot. Also the DZs @ Groesbek Hghts had been attacked repeatedly that the 82 needed for resupply. And their Artillery didn't drop to later the 2nd day Gavin did the only thing he could have based on the realization that Monty's intelligence on enemy forces was based on a fantasy assumption. Market Garden resulted in the destruction of most of the British First Airborne division. The less than 2100 or so who escaped from Arnhem had to abandon almost all of their equipment. Jim Gavin's decision to secure his drop zones, and re-supply probably prevented the US 82nd Airborne division from duplicating the British 1st Airborne's fate.
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  1017.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  Not when Market Garden went down . It was in Hastings,Atkinson's,Beevor's books plus many more Bennet's A Magnificent Disaster
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  1018.  @ToolTimeTabor  the 9th SS Recon Battalion were in Sdkfz Armored Cars and SdKfz 251 HalftrackFFS with mounted 20mmAA guns. Within three hours of landing, the Germans were able to send the SS Recon Battalion with 40 vehicles on a scouting mission. They were to drive to the bridge at Arnhem and then Nijmegen and report back on any enemy troops they encountered.The same guys was harrassing Frost also. Jesus and if they take the Bridge they couldn't hold it try engaging a Poster Oddball SOK he lives in the area and spelled it out all very well. And and none of this plus monty's crap plan and slow start - get them off the hook
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  1019. @Johnny Carroll Great Posts
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  1020. TTT One of the units actually did reach the Bridge then Graebner's men show up in Amored cars and halftracks and drove them off.And there is no larger picture than Horrocks,Dempsey/Vandeluer camping out intil 2:35 in the after noon at the border - do you understand that? The need for speed was foresaken then/there. Also 82HQ had drops for 3 days that they had to defend - Holding the DZ on the heights was the difference between Gavin and Frosts men taken prisoner. Any Army that ever held Nijmegen held the heights get artillery up there and it's game-set-match
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  1021.  @ToolTimeTabor  I had read about Gough and sort of forgot about it anything from Beevor this board attempts to discredit. There were still many more things at play,even if Gough failed.JR officers aren't responsible for such widespread oversites. Graebners men did have mounted 20 mm AA guns in half tracks. Not sure how much of Goughs route was passable as many areas were flooded by Jerry. And as we discussed - what if the Bridges were dropped immediately like Bittrich and Harmel wanted? Game-set-match victory disease at the top got good soldiers killed/captured/wounded
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  1022.  @ToolTimeTabor  History isn't predicated on what you believe. Frost's men were static in buildings. Gavin's were on foot in the open against mobile opponents - so reality exists. The 82nd had their objectives spread to hell and back,oh and there was an 88 in Hunnar Park.And the Arse Monty unlike Model was nowhere around - stay on point. Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:30 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. And why did the same three guys leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think ? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site?* Beginning to think you may be one of the supposed host's aliases ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p310-311 101st AB Division Objectives -Eindoven -Son Bridge -St Oedenrode Bridge -Veghel Road and Rail Bridges -Wooded Areas 1st AB Division Objectives -Arnhem -Arnhem Road Bridge -Pontoon Bridge -Railway Bridge -Wooded Areas 82nd AB Division Objectives -Nijmegen -Hueman Bridge -Malden Bridge -Hatert Bridge -Honinghutie Road & Rail Bridge -Grave Bridge -Nijmegen Road and Rail Bridges -Groesbeek Heights DZ/LZ
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  1023.  @ToolTimeTabor  no I don't the fact you start in about Gavin - 55 miles up the road not questioning Dempsey,Vandeluer,Horrocks sitting there until 2:35 in the afternoon. DO YOU READ and actually question their inactivity. Evidently not, Or why these supposed veterans left the bridging equipment in the rear. Or the where abouts of a shill that is an iffy commander at best and damn sure no Field Marshall. I'll lay it to you straight Geronimo and actual Para who fought in the middle east told the revisionist TIK something like "That in every army that has marched but except yours the over all commander is responsible for what does or does not happen under his watch. And that a JR officer specially from another army don't fall on their sword for the CO. If Model dropped the bridge like he should have Monty and IKE have NO ONE to blame it's that obvious - good day sir
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  1024.  @thevillaaston7811  from the RAF Historian the Britsh themselves cancelled it as linnet and Comet for many obvious reason Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.160 By September 1944 Air Force Planners were unable to see a happy outcome. More over it was documented that because Arnhem lay so far in land they did not expect to attain outright tactical surprise. The previous Comet Operation air warning stated "Surprise is extremely unlikely and the enemy will undoubtedly have knowledge of the approach of Troop Carrier formations by radar alert or visual reconnaissance" Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.195 With the shortening of days,reduced number of hours this time of year,the increase in distance, the complications due to a late start due to bad weather General Williams pointed out it would not be possible to conduct more than one lift a day. Williams had a deserved reputation for close cooperation - he had commanded troop carriers in Husky,Neptune and Dragoon and was one of the most experienced of all Allied Airborne commanders Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.196 Lift details are some what of technical character which is why few historians address them in any detail.They concern time involved in turning around aircraft for the 2nd & 3rd lifts, the range from UK bases to their objectives in Holland,weather an visibility conditions and the co-ordination of the air lift with fighter Escort and Flak suppression operations. All of these were interlinked Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.198 At the beginning of September 1944 Lt.General Brereton had already warned Eisenhower that it would be very difficult to stage an airborne operation as far east as the Rhine River from bases in the UK (SHAEF in a memorandum) Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.219 "Montgomery went over my head" Air Marshall Conningham recalled after the war. "Month after month he did that; until he had his failure at Arnhem - then they made him listen. He violated all command channels"
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  1025.  @ToolTimeTabor  sorry TTT Burns posts funny things when sedated. The men with the nets have caught him so that should subside
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  1026. Alan Brooke's own words Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219 "During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."
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  1027. Johnny Beevor and Hastings have more historical acumen between their toes than the rest of you unread rubes have in your Family trees and you evidently fellout of yours.
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  1028.  @ToolTimeTabor  you have laid down some accurate points good job swatting all the flies but at the end of the day as you stated up thread This decision was one that a higher planner and/or commander would have to make. It goes to risk mitigation for the overall operation, not simply for the recce mission. Monty not only had access to ULTRA that Brerton did not but ignored the terrain reports also,and of course a no-show. Even Frost railed when he heard about the 2 SS divisions refitting well after the War.The 1st British AB and the 82nd AB paid a hefty price
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  1029.  @ToolTimeTabor  If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.I used your words my friend try reading what you wrote.Blather on a real Field Marshall was dealing the cards though German. Again what you said last year that we agreed upon - What if they drop the Bridges immediately? That's how pathetic a plan going up a single road with no room to manuever really is with so many other moving parts. Clausewitz warned against marching through a valley without having taken the hills. Market Garden was the equivalent of doing just that. A Pulitzer Prize winner The Guns at Last Light,bt Rick Atkinson,p.262-63 Brigadier E.T. Williams, Montgomery's intelligence chief cautioned the Field Marshall that the Allies "enemy appreciation was very weak" and that no proper study of the ground around Arnhem had been made . A radio decrypt also revealed the enemy expected a XXX Corp thrust toward Nijmegen. page270 one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in the area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches ULTRA intercepts DEFE 3/221, XL 9247, XL 9466, (8 September 1944).ULTRA intercepts from both the Public Records Office, London and Hartenstein Museum. On 6 September orders were issued from the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (German Armed Forces High Command), subordinating the First Parachute Army, previously a training unit, to Army Group B, under the command of General Walter Model. The First Parachute Army, under General Kurt Student, was assigned to defend along the Albert Canal between Brussels and Maastricht. Further the message outlined the revised order of battle, identifying the 3rd, 5th, and 6th Parachute Divisions; LXXXVIII Corps with 719th and 344th Infantry Divisions; battle groups from the Netherlands formed from SS training units and Herman Goring Training Regiment. Supporting would be ten anti-aircraft batteries, equipped with the 88mm multi-purpose gun, deadly when utilized in an anti-tank role. ULTRA decrypt XL9188 in early September revealed the various units from Normandy had been ordered to western Holland to refit and subsequent intercepts indicated that this included the II SS Panzer Corp. Not until September 15 had SHAEF high command taken note that the corps two divisions the 9th & 10th Panzer seemed to encamped at Arnhem. Montgomery's senior commanders almost to a man voiced skepticism about Market Garden. Beetle-Smith grew anxious enough to alert Eisenhower, who hesitated to intervene in tactical dispositions but authorized Smith to raise the issue with the field marshall. Smith flew to Brussels on Friday,48 hrs before the assault was to begin and suggested strengthening the force to be dropped at Arnhem. *"Montgomery ridiculed the idea and laughed me out of his tent" Smith later reported *"he waved my objections airily aside" One Guy had access to this and Bettle Smith brought it up to him. And Gough/Gavin/Browning or Brereton weren't privy to it
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  1030. No I don't think so consistent in grasping for straws perhaps.If you were anywhere near consistent as you think you would have used the Gough excuse long ago but doesn't move the needle much either way.Try reading previously what was left I'm not chewing my cud twice.Ignoring terrain reports,Intel warning of the 9th & 10th refitting in Arnhem. One lane 70 miles much of it elevated surrounded by marsh and drainage ditches. The Wehrmacht was falling back on it's supply lines and reinforcement of men & machines available right there in the Ruhr by rail - what brainiac ignored that? A Field Marshall should have factored that in as an actuall Field Marshall in gray did. Also not opening the Scheldt approaches to the port that would have been needed had this debacle somehow really made it to Arnhem - as you squirm for forlorn reasions they didn't. Way too many moving parts has been pointed out by better read/informed/suited than here to discuss the matter accurately There wasn't room for anything to go wrong what so ever. Too many choke points easily to defend with the polder marshes and flooded ditches restricting the advance to one road . Many of the arguments made were by British Officers for cancelling them when planning for Operations Linnet/Comet. That was before Bernard adding the 82nd/101st Airborne Divisions to that to become MARKET GARDEN. It was condemned from it's inception and scarcely a trained military man couldn't spot it. Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border town of Bourg-Leopold until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:35 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. And why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think ? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site? Bernard was either negligent in not pointing that out to these men or didn't appoint the right people or the fact he was a vacant husk as many concluded long ago. This from a Dutch Poster Why was Field Marshall Walter Model able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchful RAF at Pannerden, and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same? Not in September, not in October and not in November ?
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  1031. No stevie it was also the single elevated road with no room for manuever. The 101st all brought this up there were adjacent routes but non that could handle the whole corp of armor. The AA Gun installments and a Real Field Marshall Model actually conducting operations. As if that was bad enough Kurt Student perhaps one of the very best tactical military minds had dropped his paras in that exact area and was very familiar with the terrain. Monty not only wasn't but even if he was - he wasn't there. Your understanding is grade school entry level
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  1032. You have no points - they're on your head Monty like you thicko wasn't around - chicken really. And another britsh boob carrington stopped in Lent. In Britain if you don't show up you're called Field Marshall,if you stop you're called LORD - could you rubes possibly bullshit yourself any further. The Crown treats you like mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed crap :face-fuchsia-poop-shape:
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  1033. Monty was playing with his bunnies and canaries back in caravan field HQ,probably playing with you to - that's why you defend him.He ignored it ULTRA moron Bettle Smith 2nd in Charge stated it to Bernard after the Comminunique from Bletchley Park was sent to SHAEF.Stop drooling on the monitor and perhaps you can read the evidence
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  1034. Irving Burns IKE gave Monty Simpson's 9th US Army to make sure there'd be no more Dunkirks,And he gave Hodges1st US Army to make sure there were no more Singapore's. And Freddie was there to make sure Monty and you would not be sharing the bubble bath in the channel again
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  1035. The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.213-14 On 29 August Horrocks XXX Corp set out on a drive that some conclude might have altered the course of the war. They advanced 250 miles through northern France and into Belgium unopposed and captured the strategic port of Antwerp virtually with out a fight. Horrocks admitted as much "we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might have even have succeeded in bouncing across the Rhine - if we had taken the chance and and carried straight on" There were no significant German forces between Horrocks and the Rhine.But instead of ordering Horrocks forward on September 4 Montgomery halted him. (Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.170,by R.W. Thompson) Montgomery failed to exploit his opportunity by failing to cross the Albert Canal and advance down the Walcheren Rd to capture the coastal batteries situated along the Scheldt that prevented shipping from reaching the port of Antwerp and delivering critical supplies to the Allied Armies massing along the Siegfried Line The Germans quickly took advantage of Monty's failure by sending in heavy reinforcements to the Walcheren area. It would take 21 st Army group more than 2 months to clear the region of enemy troops R.W.Thompson who was an Intelligence Officer in the British Army during WWII,also lays the blame for the army's failure with the Field Marshall "At the crucial hour leadership was lacking, the decision that only Field Marshall Montgomery could have exercised for which the hour demanded on seizing options and opportunities" (Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.171,by R.W. Thompson)
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  1036. Monty never showed up for his own masterpiece and avoided the after battle council,knowing he was going to get shredded
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  1037. no he wasn't,the moron couldn't think in real time or even when he was given time not unlike you
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  1038. Um no John Cornhole monty after demanding market garden failed to show up and direct - getting his picture painted and before you pop off i'll post the link john if you'll quit posting.Monty even admitted it was a mistake - after the war of course
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  1039. Read what you wrote Apologise to yourself Move On Bradley's 12th Army Group was stopped - remember the one where Patton's 3rd Amy was moving thru the French Country side? Also Jacob Devers 6th Army Goup was stopped Also - near the Sigfried Line. Evidently Bernard forgot about Market Garden . Even a slappie like you should be able to realize 3 of the 4 operations were stopped to prop up the fraud Montgomery.
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  1040.  @johnlucas8479  Monty didn't show up so he wasn't trying - it was the soldiers who lost. A real Field Marshall would be Model,who though temporarily surprised turned things around in short order - damn shame Monty couldn't do the same
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  1041.  @johnlucas8479  John Monty gave his battle plan to Ike on the 10th with no input what so ever from the Air Marshalls they all hated his guts before and this just confirmed their feelings,not eough time,resources or even day light to carry that fairy tale to triumph
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  1042.  @johnlucas8479  Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.113​ yet Dempsey writing in his diary, pondering the wisdom of the Arnhem Operation harbored the gravest doubts about crossing the Rhine at Arnhem. "It's clear that the enemy is bringing up all the reinforcements he can lay his hands on for the defense of the Albert Canal and that he appreciates the importance of the area Arnhem-Nijmegen. it looks as though he's going to do all he can to hold it." Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.160 By September 1944 Air Force Planners were unable to see a happy outcome. More over it was documented that because Arnhem lay so far in land they did not expect to attain outright tactical surprise. The previous Comet Operation air warning stated "Surprise is extremely unlikely and the enemy will undoubtedly have knowledge of the approach of Troop Carrier formations by radar alert or visual reconnaissance" Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.196 Lift details are some what of technical character which is why few historians address them in any detail.They concern time involved in turning around aircraft for the 2nd & 3rd lifts, the range from UK bases to their objectives in Holland,weather an visibility conditions and the co-ordination of the air lift with fighter Escort and Flak suppression operations. All of these were interlinked Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.198 At the beginning of September 1944 Lt.General Brereton had already warned Eisenhower that it would be very difficult to stage an airborne operation as far east as the Rhine River from bases in the UK (SHAEF in a memorandum)
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  1043. Burns talks a lot nonsense. Like MONTY - they both suffered from realizing hallucinations, real bad symptoms like Britain won the war and Monty was the greatest general forgetting that his plan got the poor Netherlands destroyed followed by the Hunger Winter. Ignoring that Patton schooled the derp on Sicliy and that Monty got called back as he was embarrasing the crown in Italy by not moving(real shocker i know). Market Garden An ill conceived plan by a damaged little man looking for attention and glory - just like John Burns.
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  1044. It's Gospel proves what an ineffective effete Bernard was - who didn't have the backbone to show up like the Tommies,GIs and of course and actual Field Marshall - WALTER MODEL
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  1045. IKE and Monty own it,hell Monty did even show up
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  1046. -BTW babbling Burns it's 82 yrs that Monty led one of the largest retreats in Military History @ Dunkirk.It's also 77 years a for Victory in Europe.See what a Super Power can do in just 5 yrs.Even correcting all the damage done by the crumbling crown and it's rancid runt got themselves into - You're welcome Giovanni Burns.
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  1047. Browning ordered the Drop Zones taken 1st.they had to fight repeated attacks there.Had 1st para held theirs it's a good chance they get resupplied. The 82nd had nothing to do with Monty's poor planning and XXX Corps slow progress or the Germnas still between Nijmegen and Arnhem Or the Gerries pouring in from the Ruhr.Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger.The Amoreed column made it only 7 miles the 1st day and got completely stopped after just 3 miles by units with panzerfausts The 1st Para almost got wiped out the 82nd didn't.The 82nd stayed mobile and protected it landing zones to get resupplied.Drops came in for 3 straight days and LZs got attacked 3 X.Had Monty been this stickler to detail that loons like this place proclaim he would have noticed this.Unlike Model,Montgomery wasn't really a Field Marshall - more like a field mouse From Carlo D'este,Decision in Normandy From the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable*1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road Monty ignored him
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  1048. Both the plan and the advance was not only weak but late.Monty himself blamed the slow progress of XXX Corp.4 tanks showed up then sat I left 4 links by actual combatants/historians but TIK deleted them 3 X,
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  1049. Max Hastings, states the following in his book, The SECRET WAR, Spies, Ciphers, and Guerrillas 1939 -1945; referring to Field Marshal Montgomery on page 495; “The little British field-marshal’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence, and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944.The same overconfidence was responsible for the launch of the doomed airborne assault in Holland on 17 September, despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, together with Field-Marshal Walter Model’s headquarters at Oosterbeek. Had ‘victory fever’ not blinded Allied commanders, common sense dictated that even drastically depleted SS panzers posed a mortal threat to lightly armed and mostly inexperienced British airborne units. Ultra on 14-15 September also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force eighty miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armour, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. The decision to launch Operation ‘Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation.”
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  1050. Market Garden was a bad idea and Brook even said it.The Americans on top of supplying the bulk now had to move it as 1400 austin trucks with bad piston rings weren't going to move squat.And the replacement engine had the same problems. One avenue of approach Gerry could cover,Multple he could not as the Russians had proved in the east
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  1051. FFS I understand why the BEF was routed . An idea with out a sound plan is a bad idea. SINGLE ROAD - no room to manuever - literally choke points galore is a bad idea. The Dutch themselves on one of their boards point out what Horrocks stated about advancing immediately . The Gerries weren't ready and could of been routed 2 weeks earlier Pip Roberts agreed with him. How the hell a tosser like Monty got position was the beginning of the end. Same like how a chowderhead like Biden got elected will lead to the same thing if repeated
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  1052. I'm crushed
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  1053. It was - why do you think Horrocks told Gavin,Tucker,Cook & Burris at the Power Plant before the WAAL Crossing that "my tanks will come over on time and in force"? Because they were discussing the only viable option since Montgomery wasn't around to shoot. Would you like me to dig that up in also? Dick Winters,David Webster & Don Malarkey all stated this in their books
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  1054. but nothing Bernard didn't sniff the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with Simpson's 9 US Army. Look enjoy the stay in your alternative universe over here. 10,400 go in 2100 come out .But,but,but it coulda.......
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  1055. Set the scotch down you slappy are you defending monty? I'm defending IKE who monty disrespected.Sleep it off then come back and comment
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  1056. Clausewitz warned against marching through a valley without having taken the hills. Market Garden was the equivalent of doing just that.​ Monty demanded this operation then doesn't show up to direct it when the reality of it coming apart immediately is evident. Having only one road to advance upon should have been warning enough not to undertake the operation. Source Daly, James. Proposed Airborne Assaults in the Liberation of Europe: Cancelled Allied Plans from the Falaise Pocket to Operation Market Garden (p. 175) 3 September After the cancellation of Linnet Montgomery continued to look for opportunities to use the First Allied Airborne Army during 21st Army Group’s advance into the Low Countries. Although previous airborne plans had included river crossings as objectives, particularly Axehead and Linnet, even a cursory glance at the map confirms that the many rivers and canals in Holland and Belgium would inevitably become obstacles to the Allied rate of advance. As Anthony Tucker-Jones puts it in The Devil's Bridge: The German Victory at Arnhem, 1944, “Model, Student and Bittrich [the German Generals in charge of local forces], or more precisely their men, had performed miracles during the hard-fought battle for Arnhem. Stragglers, teenagers, trainees, old men and Luftwaffe/Kriegsmarine staff somehow stopped three airborne, three infantry and one armored division. Forming ad hoc battle groups, they literally fought Operation Market Garden to a standstill. This was a quite remarkable achievement and represented a major blot on Field Marshal Montgomery’s reputation that he could never quite escape.” Tucker-Jones shows how Germany’s victory at Arnhem went far beyond Montgomery’s fatal underestimation of the Nazis’ will to fight. Monty's most notable mistake of all was his high-handed dismissal of the clear intelligence of Bittrich’s Panzer divisions being deployed right in the area of the attacks. Armored half tracks-mounted a 75mm, StuK 40 L/48,APCs mounted MG42s, or a 75mm PaK 42 L/70
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  1057.  @thevillaaston358  Burns is filling in the blanks,Gavin never said that,Monty was getting his picture painted
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  1058. Dave Hack you are worse at commenting than Monty commanding if one can imagine The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here, Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth. Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: "Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. we might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine." Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02. General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities."
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  1059.  @imperialcommander639  wrote TIK Free speech can be great. Your actions were cowardly --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exactly TIK took down his board bad mouthing Antony Beevor also .No doubt under the threat of libel - tells you all you need to know really
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  1060. No you mean thrown out of Europe - like Monty.The Gis had seen enough and held his the tired farts hand coming back across
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  1061. You lying little cock he almost got fired and you repeat bullshit.Go talk to dave,LMAO - ya you're a historian - he asked for you papers - classic .You are Monty's little swiss boy aren't you
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  1062. Sad you've reduced yourself to distorions you repeat so much you begin to believe it.You have been exposed by others and myself for presenting forgeries,falsehoods and fabrications.Monty had to send a written apology to Eisenhower for attempting to take credit as he sat - as he did repeatedly while the GIs were doing the heavy lifting.We couldn't watch another Dunkirking - revolting I'm sure you'd agree
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  1063. John Burns from the government home scribbled The concept was not Brereton's, it was Monty's approved by by an eager Eisenhower and Marshall. Brereton was heavily involved in detail planning. But if one unit of the of the plan did its job properly it would have been a success, despite some poor detailed planning. --------------------------------------------------------- you just proved what a lying piece of shyt you are.Alan Brooke,IKE,Air Marshall Tedder,Adml Ramsey,CoS Bedell-Smith and Freddie DeGuingand all warned and advised the twisted twirp about opening Antwerp 1st.When his asshole idea got blasted to pieces like Burns here he took to his juvenile denials and finger pointing.Montgomery gave the British Army a very bad name
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  1064. No montgomery is - there were 700 more flights than D-Day june 6,there was two 1/2 less hrs day light than june 6,the flights were 250 miles farther than June 6 not just across the channel to Normandy.Monty knew this and so did IKE.Monty had failed many times with massive advantages what made them think he could defeat an actual Field Marshall like Model ? Who in fact turned back the Russians on the Eastern Front
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  1065. little villa - ya sure like you are going to start now? Beevor never had to take down a board or retract anything he wrote under the threat of libel,so enjoy your stroll thru the land of make believe cheering revisionist carnival barkers
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  1066.  @thevillaaston7811  sure he was villa why not mention D-Day daddy when telling me/Geronimo about mum taking jerry prisoners and your uncle floating around the channel on June 6th or how you attended lectures,went to museums and know alot :face-blue-smiling:. But somehow left old pops out of the discussion,nice to make crap up and live in the land of make believe. Didn't mind shyting on the Geronimo and joining your alter ego here in smearing the GIs. Monty liked little boys and didn't have the guts to show up during Operation Monty Garden More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1067.  @thevillaaston7811  Set the scotch down you rube - you shyt on GIs and geronimo specifically.He'd pound the snot out of keyboard kommando such as your self who runs down and mouths off to those much better than yourself. So you could feel better about your sad,sorry self. And stop with your posing you and Repeate are on the same alias account slappie. Just like the lying hound lyndon who put his Cornell account to bed and started up slinging the same bombast as before under the Lyndon name. And miraculously falling in with you and the other yapping jackels. Oh Burns and him will be by shortly - because you all wear the same underwear posing as someone different - others have noticed this peculiarity
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  1068. little villa just continue crapping on our dead veterans that came 3,500 miles to help your hero go the last 30 miles you fraud
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  1069.  @johnpeate4544  of course fantasy is interesting
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  1070. More Monty victims DAVE joined 24 Aug 2013 Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 :face-blue-smiling: ya and I'm cloning accounts :body-green-covering-eyes: You lying hound
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  1071. Get your head wound looked at dave hack,then have some history read to you Alan Brooke's own words blaming bernard with Adml Ramsay chiming in​ "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. *I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place.*​ Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow" Monty admitting it The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here, Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth.
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  1072. No it is Monty that attempted to lie his way to the top and Beevor graduated and lectured at Sanhurst.Niall Barr,Tim Collins,Corelli Barnett,William Buckingham,Max Hastings,Maj.Gen.J.F.C. Fuller,John Ellis,Sabastion Ritchie,Andrew Roberts and RW Thompson all point out the same inaccuraccies.It's TIK who quotes carnival barkers Poulussen who was a proffessional Photographer and couldn't identify an M-1 and Robin Neilands who wrote under different names are his fall back hacks that he quotes.And Beevor never retracted any of his material like a certain message board presentation
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  1073.  @OldWolflad  no he isn't the book was released 4 monthse earlier in the UK before the US and sold more books there. his sources unlike these here are accurate
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  1074.  @OldWolflad  Monty was O'Connor,Auchileck and Slim just to name a few were very solid.Monty just would not take a chance once he got his headline.Churchill did screw over Auchinleck and had to go all in on Bernard.He knew later it was a mistake but couldn't admit it.And the Tommies for the most part outshined the men that led them
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  1075. monty got tossed off the continent previously and the British before the USA got involved were Being "evacuated" from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 -Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 -Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Sad but expected And bernrd ignored showing up at monty garden behaving like the weasel he resembled -.That ankle biter is onlt studied as a bad example
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  1076. So what the tosser never stopped the V-2 attacks and he never showed up to direct on the front. Like a real Field Marshall - Walter Model.What's your point except the one on your head
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  1077. did you read Nigel's "FULL MONTY" VILE? I think you're mentioned in it.Bernard will see your now grab you loofah.
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  1078. Thicko Patton never got driven into the channel and after the GIs arrived neither did Monty again - your welcome.Bernard was worse at commanding than you commenting
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  1079.  @johnpeate4544  wrote Astonishingly imbecilic comment. ----------------------------------- Stop reading your memoirs then
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  1080.  @KasFromMass  they find it more pleasureable strolling thru the land of make believe and fantasize about Monty
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  1081.  @johnburns4017  Burns you rewrite posts all the time that don't actually say what the author said but what you want others to read.Fortunately most have figured out you are a ward of the Government and in their care. Now get all gussied up in your WHO FARTED T-Shirt and head over to Picadilly - it's Friday.Try on your Aston account More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1082. Jump in the channel burns maybe the GIs will come by to pull you rubes out like we always do.Johnny DH should have charged you for that lesson. Even your special needs instructor was impressed. Now pick up your plastic soldiers that the nurses keep slipping on over there at the home and go to bed
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  1083. No he didn't after giving all the supplies available Monty assured IKE he would storm the bridges and get to Berlin.They both should have been dismissed
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  1084. Monty like Little villa in the comment sections was a total failure
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  1085. Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow .By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road. The Dutch Army Staff College final exam before the war asked students about how to advance north on just this road. Any student suggesting a direct assault up the road was failed on the spot. Only flanking well to the west was accepted as an answer - this was monty's baby The Guns at Last Light,page 282,by Rick Atkinson The new bridgehead over the Waal failed to uncork failed to uncork the advance to Arnhem as Montgomery had hoped. After a 35 hr delay at Nijmegen,XXX Corps vanguard sat for another 18hrs .Enemy raids on Hell's Highway played hob:reinforcements from the 43rd Division took 3 days to travel 60 miles in reaching the Irish Guards and 82nd Airborne .Gavin concluded after 4 yrs british veterans were excessively cautious,nurturing what he called "Why die now" sentiments.He found Colonel Tucker in a farmhouse near the rail bridge seething at the delay. "What in the hell are they doing,why the hell don't they get on to Arnhem" Tucker demanded. September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 329-31 The 82nd lost 48 KIA,138 wounded,it was now the British allies from XXX Corp turn to roll over the bridges with tanks and reinforcements and to fight their way to Arnhem to relieve the embattled countrymen from 1st Airborne.There wasn't a second to lose .In the Americans view the time to attack was right now,while the Germans were in disarray.Instead XXX Corp Tankers halted for the night,prompting a bitter dispute between the 82nd and Guards Armored.The 82nd just lost half of their men and the British Paras in Arnhem were being cut to shreds. Carrington said "I can't go with out orders .Lt A.D.Demetras overheard Col Tucker arguing with Carrington "you'd better go! it's only 8 miles".To no avail the British tankmen refused to push for Arnhem that evening It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself.'Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'It was a lost chance: 'The Allied infantry were too late supporting their tanks' "Six Armies in Normandy" by John Keegan - Montgomery’s own staff was opposed to the plan, as was his own chief of staff. With the principal organizations scattered in far-flung locations they never met to coordinate and resolve Market Garden’s obvious flaws or question its contradictions Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Montgomery & his colleagues threw away all that they had learned since 1939 about the speed & reaction of Hitlers Army..Its brilliance at improvisation,its dogged skill in defense,its readiness to punish allied mistakes. Decision in Normandy by Carlo D'este - From the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex No myths just the ones being made up by revisionists 7 decades after the facts, it was a crap plan by a small minded man.
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  1086. Hey RePeate Monty wanted alot of things,they gave them to him and he still failed - like you in the comment sections
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  1087. LMAO,great and Villa Asston has never been used in the same sentence except by his twin troll More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1088. Burns is in the government care in the UK and has internet priviledges.He must be reminded by the nurses daily to pick up his little green plastic soldiers as adults are slipping on them.And is also very proud of his "WHO FARTED" T-Shirt.And he insists that Dunkirk wasn't a withdrawal but a planned pool party and going away party for the cad Monty. Burns looks forward to his electro shock therapy and getting his ankle monitor removed.But they have found him a job mopping out the Adult Theater nearby where they affectionately refer to him as "PUDDLES"
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  1089. Burns you demented knob look at your list of lopsided loons you've concocted,if you put your heads together you'd have a rock pile 🤣🤣. Like you, Monty was an ankle biter passing himself off as a head hunter RING THE NURSES STATION your pants are filled again.
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  1090.  @nickdanger3802  Nick you'll have to wait awhile the nurses have taken Puddles out for a walk in the court yard.They've buttoned things up over at the home because of covid
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  1091. Puddles Monty Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Monty is handed command .SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly. .And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have been.Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics-It's called documented history were yours refers to demented history.His achievements are as empty as your head
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  1092. What so called Field Marshall didn't cross the 30 Mile so called Channel for 4 FULL YEARS .It only took 16-20 days to leave? The French,Belgians,Dutch,Poles and Czechs would like to know .You're going to have to make up a whole bunch of wonderful new lies or people aren't going to want to go on reading.
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  1093. All these years sitting on your ample backside in front of the monitor left you....resembling Churchill after a bad nite. You're flopping around like the Christmas Goose - only he had more brains
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  1094. Right,HO - it was Montgomery's crap plan
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  1095. Good to see you finally can admit it dave hak - MONTY GARDEN
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  1096. When Guards Armored and the 43 Wessex get to Elst tell them the war is over
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  1097. Puddles you're dizzy because the tables have been turned and never miss a good chance to shut the hell up
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  1098. No,I leave that up to yammering yetti's like you with your sloped foreheads and 6 thumbs.Saw your picture on facebook you resemble a cross between Keith Richards and Marty Feldman
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  1099. English goodlooking?BWA-ha-ha-ha,you've been circulating the same inbred blood on that island since 1066.Prince Charles,Winnie,Monty - oh ya handsome chaps,sad thing is they are better looking than you. Puddles you couldn't get a date in a woman's prison with a pocket full of Pardons.Oh and when you go Disco dancing make sure you put the potato in the front of your pants this time,might help your odds but I doubt it
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  1100. Correct,This operation was condemned at it's inception it shouldn't have been considered let alone launched. And good men paid the price for Monty and IKE ignoring the red flags Tim Saunders, The Island: Nijmegen to Arnhem ,Battleground Europe,p. 43 "The terrain that the spearhead of XXX Corps now had to cross, was worse than anything experienced so far. General Horrocks summed up the military qualities of the ground: ‘With its dykes, high embankments carrying the road and deep ditches on either side it was most unsuitable for armoured warfare. It was perfect defensive country in which the anti-tank gun hidden in the orchard was always master of the tank silhouetted against the skyline.’ With the weather deteriorating daily, ground conditions on the Island would get worse." The Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 365-66 In fact the fundamental concept of Operation Market Garden defied military logic because it made no allowance for anything to go wrong,nor for the enemy's likely reaction .In short the whole operation ignored the old rule that no plan survives 1st contact with the enemy.Montgomery even blamed the weather not the plan,even asserting the plan was 90% successful because they got 9/10ths of the way to Arnhem Center of Military History United States Army The European Theater of Operations THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN by Charles B. MacDonald Pages 199-200 Perhaps the real fault of the plan was overambition​.Yet all of the handicaps possibly could have been overcome had the British ground column been able to advance' as rapidly as General Horrocks had hoped. Another glaring fault was dependence upon but one road.​ In any event, the ground troops were delayed for varying amounts of time south of Eindhoven, at the demolished bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal at Zon, and at the Waal bridge in Nijmegen. Combined with the kind of resistance the Americans had been experiencing at Metz and Aachen, MARKETGARDEN proved that the Germans in the West might be down but they were not out. page 439 "Even before the invasion Allied planners had noted that "until after the development of Antwerp, the availability of port capacity will ... limit the forces which can be maintained. Getting Antwerp was one of the main reasons why Eisenhower had strengthened Montgomery's northern thrust." September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 42 The sad truth was that Market Garden could not be changed or amended into a better concept. It stood as what it was a deeply flawed plan based mainly on hope.Stemming from the faulty premise that a single thrust into Northern Germany could magically spell doom for Hitler. It was a zero defect plan that could succeed only if everything,or at least most things went right The Second World War by John Keegan p. 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary A General's Life,by Omar Bradley and Clay Blair,p.329 On September 14,ULTRA reported that Walter Model commanding Army Group B had established his HQ at Oosterbeek,on the outskirts of Arnhem. An ULTRA report of Sept 16 placed the 9th SS and "probably" the 10th SS Panzer Divisions in Arnhem itself. These reports proved to be absolutely accurate. (ULTRA in the West,p,153,Bennet)
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  1101. Burns this would be easier if you were smarter,you poor trampled cabbage leaf i borrowed this from another poster who schooled you previously - clearly it was Bernard's plan from Viscount Montgomery of Alamein The Memoirs of Field Marshal Montgomery "On the 9th September I received information from London that on the previous day the first V2 rockets had landed in England; it was suspected that they came from areas near Rotterdam and Amsterdam and I was asked when I could rope off those general areas. So far as I was concerned that settled the direction of the thrust line of my operations to secure crossings over the Meuse and Rhine; it must be towards Arnhem. Dempsey and Browning came to see me again on the morning of the 10th September to discuss the Arnhem operation." "My plan was to drive hard for the Rhine across all these obstacles, and to seize a bridgehead beyond the Rhine before the enemy could reorganise sufficiently to stop us.
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  1102. Who is credited with shouting RUNAWAY 1st Monty Python or Bernard? The French/Poles/Dutch on the beach taking bullets whilst Bernard was taking to the boats want to know
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  1103. 🤡Monty took control of nothing as he got driven into the sea and ran away into the desert with the Wehrmacht 30 miles away. Even Ireland,India,Trinidad and Tobago were like WTF. The frogs were screaming Sacre bleu and Guderian and Manstein were snickering IKE placed US 1st Army there to ensure no more Dunkirks, he placed the US 9th Army there to ensure no more Monty Gardens. NOW you know Johnny, hey get all gussied up in your "WHO FARTED" shirt and head out to Piccadilly it's Friday
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  1104.  @kenmazoch8499  Burns is in the governments care at a center for the disadvantaged.Blister head burns quit scribbling in bollocks
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  1105. no it isn't this slappy uses unsustantiated sources and revisionist cherry picking for slow Britsh movement and absent british leadership - which was probably better for all involved
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  1106.  @blakesutherland519  I don't think anyone with a corpuscle of common sense should run their economy like california. Like rats on a sinking ship they are screaming to move out into neighboring states driving up real estate. Look what Helosi and her clueless policies run amok have wrought .The witch herself moved out of there while her pinhead relative drives a stake further into the state's ecomy and the middle class. Gas, taxes and energy have literally went thru the roof and it is becoming one big welfare state.
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  1107.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  Like Agent Provocateurs from the the Dark Side. The Rumors of a Deep State are starting to gain traction
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  1108.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  no it wasn't not with out Anterp open Brooke himself pasted monty for ignoring it. There wasno plan any where close to having so many operations with in an operation. Early bird gets the worm - you don't sit on your ass until 2:35 in the afternoon against anyone specially the Wehrmacht
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  1109.  @TheImperatorKnight  It's Monty not the British that were bent.Auchinleck and O'Connor both much better tactical Commanders got screwed by the Brandy adled Winston .Who not remembering his own transgressions at Galllipoli started sabotaging their efforts.Great Statesman had no business in a War Room. Sorry sean but it appears John Burns has commandeered your account
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  1110. According to IKE? No sources? Again but your good word 🤣 "Monty's memoirs are the greatest work of fiction since chaste and fidelity were added to the French marriage vows" Monty could't dirct mice in a maze. Because of him the Britsh army was too small,poorly lead,ill equipped & ineffective - kind of like you in a comment sections
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  1111. Try some history.Monty?Puhleeze TIK has gotten jiggy with the facts. He should put this page in chronological order. Then the original posts from years ago could be seperated from Monty fanbois
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  1112.  @sean640307  no he didn't the hack didn't even show up.Take you to Ontario and meet some Canucks that hated,HATED him. The lack of unpreparedness at not only Dieppe but Antwerp - quite possibly the weakest link.IKE kept propping him up because the GIs where parked in Britain as a favor to Churchill. As a New Zealander said - uppity little nothing - correct. Again reread my response up thread by Horrocks who suffered under the berk in the desert
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  1113. You rube he could have crossed the Rhine earlier and 70 miles south @ Remagen or Oppenheim. But he couldn't handle loosing another headline to the GIs. So he got 1100 Tommies/Gis killed in one day crossing the Rhine. Monty was worse at Wesel than he was at Arnhem if one can even imagine. He was the biggest con job and ruse of the war. The brandy soaked Winston simply ran out of officers to sack and got stuck with him. He should have stood trial at Nuremburg with the rest of the War Criminals
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  1114. um no i've read the revision he got bombarded last time he took some liberties on the subject perhaps he's reconsidered.I've read the best historians on the planet and the books by those that fought. i don't take in opinion of fanbois & gamers 8 decades later
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  1115.  @brucebartup6161  troll? My Uncle was with the 12 armored Division under Gen. Patch so what . doesn't change the fact Monty got 1100 men killed - A-HOLE. From History net operation varsity allied airborne assault over the rhine river Some have speculated that the airborne phase of the assault may have been unnecessary for the success of the overall operation. Montgomery has been accused of using the airborne troops to ‘put on a good show’ and to further his own reputation. The Americans, on the other hand, saw Montgomery as a pompous and sought to enhance his public image and tried to take credit for success even when it was not due him. For Operation Varsity, the northern route into the industrial heart of Germany was now wide open. The cost had been high. The 6th Airborne had suffered 590 killed and another 710 wounded or missing. Several hundred of the missing later turned up to rejoin their units, however. The 17th Airborne had 430 killed, with 834 wounded and 81 missing. Casualties among the glider pilots and the troop plane pilots and crews included 91 killed, 280 wounded and 414 missing in action. Eighty planes were shot down, and only 172 of the 1,305 gliders that landed in Germany were later deemed salvageable. A total of 1,111 Allied soldiers had been killed during the day’s fighting. In comparison, the 101st Airborne Division had lost 182 killed and the 82nd Airborne 158 on D-Day. Operation Varsity, March 24, 1945, was the worst single day for Allied airborne troops. Battle for Germany,1944-1945,By Max Hastings The US Army relished to the utmost the spectacle of Montgomery preparing to "stage" a huge,formal military pageant ,more than 2 days after it's own soldiers had crossed 70 miles to the south. Patton's Army had crossed at night on 22 March - "without the benefit of aerial bombing,ground smoke,artillery preparation and airborne assistance," - all of which 21st Army Group(Montgomery) was employing on a prodigious scale! Hodges 1st US Army got across at Remagen with a casualty count of 31 men Patton's 3rd US Army came across near Oppenheim "with the total loss of 28 men killed and wounded.
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  1116.  @brucebartup6161  because they had a better plan and and didn't announce to the Western hemisphere there plans. Monty had IKE,Churchill,Alan Brooke in attendance like it was a parade or a festival. There is a special place in Hell for him - britain had much better officers MUCH
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  1117.  @brucebartup6161  bull crap watch the desert generals there was no bigger glory hound than monty even the press figured him out. Monty was a laggard try reading history instead of making it up like your hero - good day
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  1118.  @brucebartup6161  please tell me you don't operate a vehicle - good nite
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  1119.  @brucebartup6161  sorry about your condition ,god speed. But your history needs work sorry not sorry
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  1120.  @brucebartup6161  no not acceptable losses Monty just missed getting relieved. Britain had much better commanders - MUCH. He cared little except for his headline. George Marshall would have sent him packing. The only reason IKE didn't was to give the emerging Soviet threat the appearance of a solid front.
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  1121.  @scottkrater2131  absolutely, Our isolationism suited theCrown just fine before the war. They actively encouraged it – no USA poking its nose into a world dominated by Great Britain. But when the Crown needed and received our help, they couldn’t forgive us for the humiliation of becoming a junior partner to a former colony. Churchill’s wartime rhetoric about freedom and liberty must have sounded hollow to those colonies seeking self-determination across the British Empire.
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  1122.  @brucebartup6161  by who BULLCRAP,they weren't even needed.Quit throwing dung against a wall and expect to be taken as fact. Patton/Hodges and the 291st Engineers crossed 70 miles to the south at Remagan and Oppenheim with less than 70 casualties 2 days earlier Page 368,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-1945,By Max Hastings The US Army relished to the utmost the spectacle of Montgomery preparing to "stage" a huge,formal military pageant ,more than 2 days after it's own soldiers had crossed 70 miles to the south.Patton's Army had crossed at night on 22 March - "without the benefit of aerial bombing,ground smoke,artillery preparation and airborne assistance," - all of which 21st Army Group(Montgomery) was employing on a prodigious scale!!
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  1123.  @brucebartup6161  You or we don't know crap 1,100 Paras/Airmen (not ground troops)killed in one day in late March '45 was unacceptable. read up thread.This wasn't storming ashore on Normandy. The war was all but over and the Wehrmacht Soldiers were practically running into the Arms of Allied Soldiers rather than surrender to the Reds It was MURDER sending good troopers out of planes making them easy defenseless targets getting shredded by AA Guns/Flak Batteries on the way down in a shooting gallery. After the rube Monty announced to everyone in the free world the crossing as he even had the press in tow.And repeating your nonsense doesn't make it accurate. Your polluted support of such a debacle indicates you know as little of military manuever as Monty or Churchill. Are you related to Stalin? Remember 70 miles down river 3 US Armies crossed with less than 100 casualties. Paras just got hung out to die - literally This is why YOUR government wailed of manpower shortages all thru Normandy,crap decisions by so called capable minds. If your father had been one we'd not be having this discussion - let that sink . IKE foolishly loaned the loon Monty more men as fodder both should have been removed
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  1124.  @brucebartup6161  type this into the search bar above Military Aviation History Board - Worse than Market Garden? Was this Operation Necessary?
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  1125.  @brucebartup6161  that might be it,that might be it
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  1126.  @brucebartup6161  I believe that was it someone else gave me the wrong video and that was the one i found but there at least 3 video's on Crossing the Rhine and how using air troops was a bad idea as ground troops were no problem moving
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  1127.  @brucebartup6161  you can't process it and i can't help you with that again Patton wisely chose a better place and crossed with little casualties Monty the blowhole announced to everyone his intentions,IKE CHurchill Alan Brooke and all the press corp was there and the airmen were wide open to anti aircraft guns and they got slaughtered pretty simple
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  1128. Monty Garden,Burns your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones.
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  1129. Irving Burns if you behave perhaps the nurses will remove your ankle monitor over there at the home.Maybe even let you walk around in the court yard for a spell as long as you don't run away like last time. What so called empire forces had to be "evacuated" from Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 ? Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941? Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942? Take your time I know it's a tough one you can even use your Ouija Board like before
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  1130. No luck needed,your dead beat dad and the failed marshmellow Monty where boarding the boats when the French & the Dutch were taking bullets.Thanfully the GIs came 3,500 miles to help them with the last 30 - you're welcome.Now pick up your green army men before the nurses slip - you'll get no court yard privileges until you do
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  1131. Monty hatched whole damn plan and it was slapped together rather hastily.Britain had good soldiers but Monty wasn't one of them.Previously i left that direct quote from Brooke blaming monty for not opening the Scheldt Estuarty 1st.pointing out Ike went along with just to get Monty to Move should have pressured Churchill to remove the rube
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  1132. Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow .By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road. The Dutch Army Staff College final exam before the war asked students about how to advance north on just this road. Any student suggesting a direct assault up the road was failed on the spot. Only flanking well to the west was accepted as an answer - this was monty's baby From The Guns at Last Light,page 282,by Rick Atkinson The new bridgehead over the Waal failed to uncork failed to uncork the advance to Arnhem as Montgomery had hoped. After a 35 hr delay at Nijmegen,XXX Corps vanguard sat for another 18hrs .Enemy raids on Hell's Highway played hob:reinforcements from the 43rd Division took 3 days to travel 60 miles in reaching the Irish Guards and 82nd Airborne .Gavin concluded after 4 yrs British veterans were excessively cautious,nurturing what he called "Why die now" sentiments.He found Colonel Tucker in a farmhouse near the rail bridge seething at the delay. "What in the hell are they doing,why the hell don't they get on to Arnhem" Tucker demanded. From September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 329-31 The 82nd lost 48 KIA,138 wounded,it was now the British allies from XXX Corp turn to roll over the bridges with tanks and reinforcements and to fight their way to Arnhem to relieve the embattled countrymen from 1st Airborne.There wasn't a second to lose .In the Americans view the time to attack was right now,while the Germans were in disarray.Instead XXX Corp Tankers halted for the night,prompting a bitter dispute between the 82nd and Guards Armored.The 82nd just lost half of their men and the British Paras in Arnhem were being cut to shreds. Carrington said "I can't go with out orders . Lt A.D.Demetras overheard Col Tucker arguing with Carrington "you'd better go! it's only 8 miles".To no avail the British tankmen refused to push for Arnhem that evening From It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'It was a lost chance: 'The Allied infantry were too late supporting their tanks' From "Six Armies in Normandy" by John Keegan - Montgomery’s own staff was opposed to the plan, as was his own chief of staff. With the principal organizations scattered in far-flung locations they never met to coordinate and resolve Market Garden’s obvious flaws or question its contradictions From Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Montgomery & his colleagues threw away all that they had learned since 1939 about the speed & reaction of Hitlers Army..Its brilliance at improvisation,its dogged skill in defense,its readiness to punish allied mistakes. From Decision in Normandy by Carlo D'este - From the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex No myths just the ones being made up by revisionists 7 decades after the facts, it was a crap plan by a small minded man.
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  1133. 🤣😍😆😎
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  1134. Hey lunacy you poor trampled cabbage leaf you got your name right and that's about it, write down what you know that should leave you with plenty of time to scribble more novels. Those were places a so called empire got routed from. Again petulance isn't an argument and denial isn't a river. Go across and ask the Euros - shouldn't take you 4 yrs like it did Monty
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  1135.  @MzLunaCee  Bernard had 4 full years to cross the channel but he stayed behind to give you the Full Monty. You're fauntleroy that is under the influence of stupid. A lot of lads with the British inferiority complex that were weakest of the allied armies with the most humiliating defeats. Being "evacuated" from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 -Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 -Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Sad but expected Our isolation suited the crown just fine before the War. No USA poking it's head into world affairs run by the Royals, all the better.But when the Crown needed and received our help, they couldn't forgive us for the embarrassment of becoming a junior partner to a country they couldn't colonize. One that went on and used their Island as a staging area & an aircraft carrier to finish what they couldn't.Churchill grabbed everything he could from USA but a red hot stove - essential to the British so they feel like they added something to the war effort
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  1136. as your boys ran away 3000 miles into the desert with Gerry 30 miles away. Now you know why the Red Army was putting signs up on the Eastern Front stating how many miles they needed to go to CAEN and get it sorted
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  1137. Ya sure villa now your father was in the war of course he was after YOU shitting on the the GAVIN/82nd and Geronimo also - an actual Para who served. Funny you never mentioned this when popping off to me 4-5 yrs ago. Your mum taking prisoners and your uncle floating around as an observer in the channel on June 6th. Or don't you remember those whoppers? Never mentioning D-Day Daddy though,tell the truth your lying hound - it's all you have to remember. Ya victory villa world famous a real go-getter
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  1138. ya well you were 75 yrs too late - laddy
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  1139. It got 20,000 of their citizens killed from freezing,starvation and the rest of their young men taken back to the Reich worked to death in the war industries. Too bad it wasn't your folks then we wouldn't hear rubes like you justify this debacle
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  1140. Forced labour and the Atlantic Wall One of the biggest impacts on the Dutch people during the occupation was caused by the German ‘Arbeitseinsatz’, which forced every man aged between 18 and 45 to work in German factories. As part of this program, approximately 500,000 Dutchmen were transported by force to Germany. Life in the factories was hard, and dangerous too, as the buildings were regularly bombed by the Allies. Those that refused to go were forced into hiding. By 1943, tensions between the Dutch people and the occupying German forces were rising. This enmity was only exacerbated by the construction of the Atlantic Wall, a gigantic coastal defence line that the Nazi’s built from southwestern France to Denmark and Norway. In Holland, the wall was built through large stretches of The Hague and Scheveningen, with some Dutch people being forced to work on its construction. In total, tens of thousands of homes were evacuated, and many more people had to leave their homes to accommodate for its erection. You can find out more about the story behind the Atlantic Wall by visiting the Wadden region in the north of Holland.
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  1141. Thanx for deleting your post i was responding to, you tosser, about the Dutchman being marched off and worked to death . But i have no problem swatting down this very robust theory of yours - like the rest really. Do tell the rest of the congregation about mum taking jerry prisoners. I'll be back to address your scribbling graffiti
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  1142. Pretty straight forward little villa,go up there praisng your favorite poof Monty. And why are you soliticing another poster's approval? Hoping he comes to the same lopsided conclusions as yourself,when the post doesn't seem to indicate that at all This from The Dutch Review Allied forces had liberated the south of the Netherlands. But as the forces pushed further north, the failure of Operation Market Garden impeded their progress. The obvious and literal cause of the famine was a German blockade enacted in retaliation to a Dutch railway strike that aimed to help the Allied invasion of the country The Allied forces failed to seize a bridge over the Rhine at Arnhem. They decided to focus on other parts of the liberation process first, including capturing the French ports of Calais, Boulogne and Dunkirk. Their progress into Germany slowed down at the time because they couldn’t use the port of Antwerp How did people survive the Hunger Winter? Between 18,000 and 22,000 people died during the Hunger Winter, most of whom were older men. When we talk about survival rates, it’s important to remember that it was not just the supply of food hampered by the blockade. It was also the supply of heating fuel: coal.When it came to heating, people desperately burned furniture and dismantled whole houses to get fuel for their fires. Adults had to contend with only 1000 calories of food by the end of November 1944 — but that dropped to 580 calories a day by February 1945. Even the black market was empty of food. Antwerp wasn't opened because Monty never ordered it opened until his debacle failed
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  1143. little villa,If I agreed with you we’d both be wrong. Like you Monty never showed up so you both have that going for you. When mum visits you over there at the center have her read you these below - it's in English With Prejudice, Air Marshall Tedder,p.586 Eisenhower's firm commitment to the Anglo-American Alliance dominated his thinking. He handled Allied disagreements in Normandy, at the Falaise Gap and for Market-Garden the same way. Eisenhower was determined to protect the facade of Allied unity at the highest levels of the Allied command in spite of Montgomery's insubordination which was motivated by both personal and political objectives. Eisenhower's efforts to cover up Montgomery's lies in Normandy drew praise from his British second in command, Lord Tedder: "One of the most disturbing features of the campaign ... had been the uninhibited boosting at home (England) of the British Army at the expense of the Americans. I ... fear that this process was sowing the seeds of a grave split between the Allies. For the moment, the Americans were being extremely reticent and generous, largely on account of Eisenhower's fine attitude." Alan Brooke's own words "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it ​ The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. He would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  1144. D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,by Antony Beevor,page 263 The slowness of Monty's attack in Normandy was one of Ike's chief concerns. Eisenhower even had spoken to Churchill about it while the battle was in full swing. Air Chief Marshall Tedder and Air Marshall Coningham even discussed the possibility of having Montgomery relieved .Coningham who commanded the Tactical Air Force supporting 21st Army Group,had loathed Montgomery since the North African camaign.He had never been able to forgive Montgomery's compulsion to take all the credit Now they were infuriated by Mongomery's pretence that his strategy was proceeding according to plan when he had manifestly failed to take the ground needed for airfields
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  1145.  @thevillaaston7811  thicko do you have Aspergers like they believe bernard had? Repeating everything twice.That was Bernard at the end pretty easy segue there .The noun was Montgomery,the pronoun was HE - do they have English Composition in your country? If so do take a class before you graduate High School or simply ask the men with the nets there at the center to assist ,they're always willing to help the disadvantaged like the USA propped up the prat Monty
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  1146. Beevor graduated from Sanhurst and served in the Hussars and has been Knighted. Unlike you or the mellon head that runs this bastion of squawking bombast. Go over to Poland or the Czech Republic and remind them of the prewar promises your Buckingham inbreds made to them. War doesn't have a schedule did you make up 78-90 reading your overlord Burns alias accounts again More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20Nov 2013
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  1147. Three miles from the start panzerfaust teams blasted nine tanks and the column came to a complete stop well below Valkenswaard. Even the Germans there spotted the problem From - 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 215 Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit:The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us From 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst. It was a lost chance
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  1148. That's true XXX Corp had Infantry,the problem was one single elevated 64 mile road.With no room for maneuver and polder marshes on both sides.Even the Dutch Operatives couldn't believe that Monty took that Route. This shouldn't have even been considered let alone launched
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  1149. Once again the child VILE spews bile doesn't mention tanks faffing around as the Germans themselves stated.And of course his hero the poof Monty not showing up to direct operations like a real Field Marshall Model was for the Germans. Do your own research as Monty pretty well got worked everywhere except Africa.Where he couldn't really lose because of an embarrassment of riches supplied by the USA and the intelligence,air superiority and Torch Landings
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  1150. And good to see John Cornell resurface in the form of Lyndon
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  1151.  @thevillaaston7811  Going to shit on more GIs today asshole like you have since 2013 or was that 2010 from memory tell that tale you cad. And produce the post where I bad mouthed cancer suffers. Like every thing else you twist that to fit your demented narrative. The fact is you're a steaming pile and you know it to gain favor with other revisionists. Ya 48-50 GIs got killed crossing the Waal and of the 138 wounded many more died later and according to knobs like You they're at fault. Ya regale for us VILE how Dunkirk was the fault of French/Belgians/Dutch.And Market Garden is the fault of the GIs/Poles/Canadians. And Singapore that of the New Zealanders/Aussies. While for 4 years Monty couldn't cross his own channel and you badmouth/back stab those who so stupidly came 3,500 miles in ships loaded with supplies/provisions/men/materiel to help the Crown with it's mess. Your "LORD" Carrington sat on his ass while the 82nd wanted to carry the fight forward. Go watch the BBC Docu on the operation or read "It Never Snows in September" the Germans shed light on it also. Big difference in a so called Field Marshall that never showed up as a real one in the form of Model who conducted a clinic in modern mobile warfare. As a Dutch poster who has studied the battle said Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come?How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT do the same ?Not in September, not in October and not in November..Probably because unlike Monty ,Model was an actuall Field Marshall Montgomery was influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman..."
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  1152. where did I denigrate him like you and cornhole did the GI's, absolving Monty/Carrington of their complicity in the Market Garden debacle while just upthread you again blaming dead GI's at Nijmegen - again. the plan got blasted 3 miles from the start and the column got derailed plenty of times. I used the US Army Archives you used a guy who had 5 wives and killed himself. One source was obviously more solid than the other. Nice attemt to stretch it. Watch the BBC docu or Bennet's - both British
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  1153.  @lyndoncmp5751  sure why then are people responding to you on many other boards and refering to you as John Cornell 4-5-6 months ago as this name appears instead of the other one and your narrative and choice of words are eerily similar. Same M.O. as others who use multiple pseuds. As you were....John
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  1154. Sure John I guess all the other posters on those boards responding to John Cornell are wrong wondering how LYNDON's name appeared instead
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  1155. The GIs were fighting in a little scrum in the Pacific. My two uncles were in the 7th Fleet and stationed in Australia - that a certain empire evidently forgot about
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  1156. It was bad enough GIs had to fight NAZI's then we wet nursed their meager war efforts.Then have to listen to their inbred descendants twisting facts 75 yrs later
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  1157. The Villa Aston babbled What the fuck are you on about? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Historical truth an alien concept to you
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  1158. TIK ignores an avalanche of evidence to the contrary
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  1159. um no monty ignored Intelligence then ignored showing up,afraid he'd embarrass himself again
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  1160. sure,your not
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  1161. John Burns,Um no information from Kruschev,Stalin,Zhukov while the war was still on and right after was not fudged.Actually britain gave the soviets much of their older equipment as they received shiploads of supplies from th US.After Stalin died Kruschev & Zhukov both thanked IKE and Georgi actually visited him after he was elected and they thanked him things such as spam,studebakers,GMC - mostly duece and a half for not only troops transport but mounting their mobile rocket launchers.In 44 for instance the US produced 47,000 tanks the UK - 5,000
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  1162. who ignorantly believed Montgomery was some kind of Field marshall,Buw-a-a-a
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  1163. Yes from Burns Big Book of British Bollocks Old Monty...at least the Japanese commanders had enough pride to disembowel themselves after failures like his. This is from Montgomery Memoirs Chapter 16 "My PLAN was to drive hard for the Rhine across all obstacles. para 4 I have already explained the direction of the thrust would be towards Arnhem and why. The essential feature of the PLAN was the laying of a carpet of airborne forces across five major water obstacles which existed on the general axis of the main road through Eindhoven to Uden, Grave , Nijmegen and thence to Arnhem" Clearly Montgomery stated it was his Plan not just an idea. How could anyone suppose that Montgomery and his army would suddenly change his spots and become the sort of force capable of conducting a fast,concentrated,mobile thrust into the heart of Germany. The Army Monty claimed he could lead to Berlin was created by him in his own ponderous and ever cautuios image
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  1164. Iriving Burns you indoctrinated dweeb,have your handler at the group home there get you out into the court yard and off your ample backside .Every senior officer blasted Bernard for it after he demanded and recieved top priority .No one was shocked the stammering little snot got worked - AGAIN as before The Brereton Diaries: The War In The Air In The Pacific, Middle East And Europe 11 September 1941-8 May 1945 “There were several undesirable features of MARKET. General Browning, who had been charged with planning for MARKET with the 21st Army Group, informed me that at General Montgomery’s insistence he had virtually agreed to drop the 101st Airborne Division in seven separate areas along an axis 30 miles in length to seize key crossings. I objected to this because such dispersion destroys the tactical integrity of a division, presents an insurmountable supply problem, and renders the smaller groups susceptible to being destroyed in detail without accomplishing the mission. I decided that General Taylor, commanding the 101st Airborne Division, would see General Montgomery about a more concentrated landing. If, after the disadvantages of the first maneuver have been explained to General Montgomery, he still insists, we will go in as planned. The Brereton Diaries: The War In The Air In The Pacific, Middle East And Europe 3 October 1941-8 May 1945Lieutenant-General Lewis H. Brereton It absolutely was a plea to change the order. A division commander would not fly to the continent in wartime four days prior to a major operation for a purely social visit *Arnhem,by William Buckingham,PHD;p.489-90*​ The scapegoating of Sosabowski and his men was a spiteful,unwarranted and unforgivable slur on a competant,conscientious commander whose only crime was to refuse to play Whitehall politics to Brownings satisfaction, and upon the courageous men whose only failing was an inability to walk on water The primary reason MARKET GARDEN didn't meet it's stated aim was the Failure of XXX Corps to reach Arnhem on schedule or indeed at all To a degree this is due to events out of the forces control, specifically the Germans destruction of the bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal at Son on 17 September and their stuborn defense of the South End of the Nijmegen Road Bridge The Guards Armored Division did not start off until 14:35 on Sunday 17 September,after the Market force had been delivered and therefore squandered 8 hrs of of precious daylight and they had banned movement during the hours of Darkness This despite the fact they were suppose to cover the 15 miles or so to the 101st at Eindhoven by nightfall on the 17th which ocurred around 1900(7 PM) The Guards Armored did not reach Eindhoven until18:30 on 18 September despite minimal German opposition.Already behind schedule that was to see them 40 miles further to Nijmegen or onto the approach to Arnhem - and the additional time needed to erect a bailey bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal extended the schedule deficit to 36 hrs. The same lack of urgency was on display when the Grenadier Guards on the evening of 20 September with the North end of the Nijmegen Bridge still in British hands and the 10 miles virtually undefended(to Arnhem).The repeated failure of the Guards Armored Division to press on after crossing the River Waal marks the point where the operation failed
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  1165. Oh Johnny there's more,see when you come in from the land of make believe even the disadvantaged like you can learn something.Not good Johnny not good Alan Brooke's own words and Monty admitting it from his memoirs.Rick Atkinson a Pullitzer Prize Winner even chimes in,where as we know you just pull it "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely...." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp.He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery - based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for him was very weak Fancy some more? More from Bernard from his Memoirs, Monty says: [quote] “My plan was to drive hard for the Rhine across all these obstacles, and to seize a bridgehead beyond the Rhine before the enemy could reorganise sufficiently to stop us. Montgomery Memoirs page 267; [quote] “The airborne forces at Arnhem were dropped too far away from the vital objective the bridge. It was some hours before they reached it. I take the blame for this mistake. I should have ordered Second Army and 1 Airborne Corps to arrange that at least one complete Parachute Brigade was dropped quite close to the bridge, so that it could have been captured in a matter of minutes and its defence soundly organised with time to spare. I did not do so” [end quote]
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  1166. Monty couldn't direct mice in a maze - ask lucian
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  1167. He's not making shit up this whole comment section is a Monty pep Rally - he was terrible and only won when he had overwhelming advantages in men and materiel. He really almost got sacked for making up stories while doing very little
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  1168. He most certainly almost got sacked(twice) for insubordination and conduct unbecoming in France.Had it not been for political considerations he would have been.Britain had some good officers that pratt wasn't one of them
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  1169.  @11nytram11  Fair enough,from my research Auchinleck,O'Connor,Slim maybe even Alexander were better tactically than BLM
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  1170. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan .Wiki warrior got anymore of those drugs.OMG was a debacle from the start and Monty it's daft designer Cherry pick much XXX Corp was not only late but short on numbers promised by Monty/Horrocks.That was the problem - your tanks chicken out lead by a so called "LORD" Here you go child BY THE GERRIES THEMSELVES From - 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 215,Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit:The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'*It was a lost chance*
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  1171. Arnhem.Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945.By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes:'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ From Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle.There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed We knew what even a handful of Germans could do - they were so damned efficient. As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.”
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  1172. It appears you and history have but a fleeting acquaintance From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively. Here,Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth.
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  1173. Given your place amongst the ignorant you can't teach anyone a thing
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  1174.  @dougdenhamlouie  the only thing that surpasses that Austrian whack's ignorance is it's willingness to express it
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  1175. If not for 'Monty' the war may have ended in 1944. From Caen to the Schelde Estuary to Market Garden to the Ardennes this general officer rained down havoc on the Allied cause. From letting an entire German army (the 15th) escape to causing a disaster along 65 miles of Dutch highway to forcing Churchill to apologize for his behavior this officer was an expensive 'hero' that the British public needed at the time but one that the Allies could barely afford.
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  1176. Burns can you just admit you're an idiot From the top From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, "I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem"
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  1177. Irving Burns school was in session and a good education you recieved unfortunately you failed yet again - much like your personal life.The Vicar will see you now
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  1178. Autistic Irving Burns I was going thru the comment sections and every one had their way with you like the cheap floozy we know you to be. An epic throttling you did recieve to the delight of all the folks at the home where you reside. They were all there taking their turns,Imperial Commander,Agent Mulder,Achilles Smith,Seth 22,The Director,Answers Questions,Old Tanker,Nick Danger,Geronimo,Myself,Johnny Thunder I would take up too much band width mentioning the rest pounding you and the rest of your posse of cyber psychos a righteous throttling it was 🚑🚑🚑 More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1179.  @edwinsalau150  yup catering to a fanboi base that can't handle the truth
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  1180. From the Top,even Brooke couldn't defend him From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.*Alan Brooke* was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay he wrote in his diary.Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  1181. Cornhole is Monty's little swiss boy and forgery,with every other Army Monty got a swirly in the English Channel.And only came back across when the GIs chaperoned the little limp wrist
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  1182. Gary what other rare gems have you mined for us today you poltroon? IKE had already stopped Devers 6th Army Group and Bradley's 12th Army Group to supply/support Monty's advance. I suppose IKE should have asked the Wehrmacht if it wasn't too much trouble they could stop also to help Bernard out . You snogging wankers both suffer from the British inferiority complex,obviously well versed in British mythology. Monty wanted to be in charge as he thought he had more experience. But that was spent retreating or being defeated with out the GIs .Even ROMMEL had stated in the Desert - "THE LEISURELY PACE of Montgomery's pursuit allowed me time for mischief on other units" That was of Course before the US led Torch landings
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  1183. Unlike the Britsh the Americans had to fight thru those obstacles if Europe was to be saved from the advancing Red Army the effete bernard and his repeated debacles saw to that.The Euros were fully aware that Bernard had chickened out yet again at Monty Garden And you chortling chode the Ardennes was a German Attack. Last time the Heer came thru there Monty and Brooke celebrated by having a pool party in the Channel. As Dutch had stated our country cannot afford another Monty success. Go across your channel and ask the Czechs,Poles,Dutch and French - it shouldn't take you 4 years like it did for an Empire they waited for
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  1184. Unlike the Britsh the Americans had to fight thru those obstacles if Europe was to be saved from the advancing Red Army the effete bernard and his repeated debacles ensured.The Euros were fully aware that Bernard had chickened out yet again at Monty Garden And you chortling chode the Ardennes was a German Attack. Last time the Heer came thru there Monty and Brooke celebrated by having a pool party in the Channel. As Dutch had stated our country cannot afford another Monty success. Go across your channel and ask the Czechs,Poles,Dutch and French - it shouldn't take you 4 years like it did for an Empire they waited for
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  1185. thicko that's a lie I left the evidence but being bent and in the government home for the unfortunatesyou keep repeating drivel.Monty was going to get sacked for wanting to fall back then claiming he did it anything.The same little coward that didn't even show up at Monty Garden wanted to fall back THE ARDENNES CAMPAIGN By Don R. Marsh Monty's orders were to withdraw​ farther west on the 24th to form a defense line and "tidy up the front" without taking any action Our 2nd Armored Division CO, Major General Ernest Harmon disregarded that order​ and moved to block the advance near the village of Ciney. The Recon scouts sent word that the Germans had stopped near Celles, apparently to allocate the fuel now in short supply." "At 1435 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "We've got the whole damned 2nd Panzer Division in a sack! You've got to give me immediate authority to attack!" Despite Collins disobeying Montgomery's orders, he gave Harmon the OK. "At 1625 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "The bastards are in the bag!" On that day the German 2nd Panzer Division trapped and unable to maneuver was destroyed. The enemy lost 81 tanks, 7 assault guns, 405 vehicles of all types, plus 74 big guns. An actual account of the enemy killed and captured was not recorded. It ceased as a fighting force. The German 9th Panzer Division desperately attempted to rescue the 2nd Panzer, but was beaten back with severe losses." Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge, p366 While undoubtedly an American Triumph,the Ardennes campaign produced a political defeat for the British. And as Churchill recognized there was a much greater consequence. Montgomery would find himself sidelined once across the Rhine on the advance into Germany and all British advice was ignored.The Country's influence was at an end The German and Allied casualties in the Ardennes fighting from 16 December 1944 to 29 January 1945 were fairly equaled. - German losses were around 80,000 dead,wounded,missing. - The Americans suffered 75,482 dead,wounded and missing - The British lost 1,408 wounded of whom 200 were killed. Shameful oh and the USA had to supply the trucks as this happened - AGAIN Wilmot's "The Struggle For Europe" and on page 524 of the Reprint Society London 1954 edition By the start of September all the transport reserves of 21st Army Group were on the road. Imports were cut from 16,000 tons per day to 7,000 so that transport companies could be diverted from unloading ships to forward supply. This gain, however, was almost offset by the alarming discovery that the engines of 1,400 British-built three-tonners (and all the replacement engines for this particular model) had faulty pistons which rendered them useless.[1] These trucks could have delivered to the Belgian border another 800 tons a day, sufficient to maintain two divisions. By reducing the daily tonnage of First Canadian Army, by bringing in fresh transport companies from England, and by such expedients as welding strips of airfield track on the sides of tank-transporters to convert them for supply carrying, 21st Army Group was able to provide enough supplies to carry Dempsey's two forward corps into Belgium as far as Brussels and Antwerp, but with it's own resources it could go no further. [1]See "The Administrative History of the Operations of 21 Army Group" p.47
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  1186. thicko that's a lie I left the evidence but being bent and in the government home for the unfortunatesyou keep repeating drivel.Monty was going to get sacked for wanting to fall back then claiming he did it anything.The same little coward that didn't even show up at Monty Garden wanted to fall back THE ARDENNES CAMPAIGN By Don R. Marsh Monty's orders were to withdraw​ farther west on the 24th to form a defense line and "tidy up the front" without taking any action Our 2nd Armored Division CO, Major General Ernest Harmon disregarded that order​ and moved to block the advance near the village of Ciney. The Recon scouts sent word that the Germans had stopped near Celles, apparently to allocate the fuel now in short supply." "At 1435 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "We've got the whole damned 2nd Panzer Division in a sack! You've got to give me immediate authority to attack!" Despite Collins disobeying Montgomery's orders, he gave Harmon the OK. "At 1625 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "The bastards are in the bag!" On that day the German 2nd Panzer Division trapped and unable to maneuver was destroyed. The enemy lost 81 tanks, 7 assault guns, 405 vehicles of all types, plus 74 big guns. An actual account of the enemy killed and captured was not recorded. It ceased as a fighting force. The German 9th Panzer Division desperately attempted to rescue the 2nd Panzer, but was beaten back with severe losses." Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge, p366 While undoubtedly an American Triumph,the Ardennes campaign produced a political defeat for the British. And as Churchill recognized there was a much greater consequence. Montgomery would find himself sidelined once across the Rhine on the advance into Germany and all British advice was ignored.The Country's influence was at an end The German and Allied casualties in the Ardennes fighting from 16 December 1944 to 29 January 1945 were fairly equaled. - German losses were around 80,000 dead,wounded,missing. - The Americans suffered 75,482 dead,wounded and missing - The British lost 1,408 wounded of whom 200 were killed. Shameful oh and the USA had to supply the trucks as this happened - AGAIN Wilmot's "The Struggle For Europe" and on page 524 of the Reprint Society London 1954 edition By the start of September all the transport reserves of 21st Army Group were on the road. Imports were cut from 16,000 tons per day to 7,000 so that transport companies could be diverted from unloading ships to forward supply. This gain, however, was almost offset by the alarming discovery that the engines of 1,400 British-built three-tonners (and all the replacement engines for this particular model) had faulty pistons which rendered them useless.[1] These trucks could have delivered to the Belgian border another 800 tons a day, sufficient to maintain two divisions. By reducing the daily tonnage of First Canadian Army, by bringing in fresh transport companies from England, and by such expedients as welding strips of airfield track on the sides of tank-transporters to convert them for supply carrying, 21st Army Group was able to provide enough supplies to carry Dempsey's two forward corps into Belgium as far as Brussels and Antwerp, but with it's own resources it could go no further. [1]See "The Administrative History of the Operations of 21 Army Group." p.47
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  1187. Conned my arse The Americans and Russians rightfully left you puufs on the side go across and ask the Euros.French,Czech,Poles Dutch,knew again who wore the pants. Your chickenshits thru the czechs under the bus hoping Hitler would leave you alone. More British stategic retreats,again have the headmaster point these out Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼🍼
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  1188. What other rare gems have you mined for us today you poltroon? IKE should have ran the tommies thru the shredder to get Berlin.But the limey limp dick Monty had already done that.Ya Empire, face-blue-smilingeveryone except you John Burns knows the Big Boys never got curb stomped like British forces - The world leaders in strategic retreats: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 -Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 -Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942
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  1189. No the same soviet government that helped the USA win the war. As Monty's misadventure came apart 3 miles from the start that he didn't have the cajones to show up - must be a relative of yours The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here, Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth.
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  1190. Urquhart?He had little airborne experience and was hiding out out in an attic for over a day.While the men under him were having communication problems with their radios.Neither of those men are to blame - it's Monty who after hatching this very bad plan never had the nerve to actually show up
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  1191. He didn't plan squat hundreds were involved and Admiral Ramsay and staff arranged and planned most of the landings
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  1192. You girls and your knitting circles
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  1193. The plan was getting blasted from the beginning south of Valkenswaard.Guards armored stopped after 4 hrs on the 1st day
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  1194. @Answer Questions -The deep water port of Antwerp was still closed and needed for massive supplies. -Allies never made it to Arnhem let alone Berlin as Monty boasted -The V-2 launching sites had not been captured and still operating. -11,000 Paras go into Arnhem 2,100 come out and was still in German hands. -The Nazi reprisals subjected the Dutch to the Honger Winter,that killed 21,000 of it's civilians. -And many young Dutchmen were sent to work in defense industry in the Reich. -Montgomery wasn't there to command like a real Field Marshall Model who in fact was conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare. -Monty wouldn't cross the Rhine for 6 more months,with the help of the US 9th Army - real Field Marshall,huh?
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  1195. Monty did crap in the ardennes puhleeeze,What he won he won in NA with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. And then barely.. and poorly.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics.Monty had serious deficiencies in fluid battles, and had limited ability to adjust his methods to changing operational situations. balance,flexibility, cooperation, simplicity and the assimulation of combat lessons.he was vain,rude objectionable - a legend in his own mind. How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over,under the ever watchfull RAF and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November Just look at the maps It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction you idiot
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  1196. Um no Villa - piss on any more dead GIs to get your favorite pedo off the hook for his operation
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  1197. MONTY GARDEN,Burns have them loosen the bolts in your neck
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  1198. Which so called Field Marshall chickened out,err I mean didn't show up for his own Operation.Then didn't show up for after battle council.Think real hard Johnny - it's for all the marbles,even though you've lost yours
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  1199. It doesn't take much to pick up a book dave hak,you avoid reading like Monty avoided the gerries and telling the truth. Go fill your tub up and splash around like bernard in the channel
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  1200. "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....." Monty later admitting it The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 *In his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway." For not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. *Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply . Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow" From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary Eisenhower's Armies ,by Dr Niall Barr ,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden, Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer, noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary, followed by an advance on the Rhine, the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticized Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings, Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray. That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings, Armageddon: The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area. With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers, volume IV, by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor, page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty, who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later The Year of D-Day:The 1944 Diary of Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay, p. 151 - Montgomery:"1st Army have withdrawn 6th Division - ready to launch attack to the Rhine with British 2nd Army on October 12th." Ramsay: this afforded me the que I needed to lambaste him for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery .Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply . Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow" Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory, Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery; based strictly on military accomplishments, the case for him was very weak
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  1201. We know you've met him Lucian
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  1202. From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 437 Bedell Smith the showed De Guingand in strict confidence a telegram from Marshall to Eisenhower saying that it would be quite unacceptable to give Montgomery command of any substantial American Forces.He informed Eisenhower that the latter had the full confidence of the President himself and the whole of America in handling the campaign.DeGuingand then saw Eisenhower who mentioned the damage being done by Montgomery's indiscreet remarks.Eisenhower explained he was tired of the whole business (Montgomery's behavior) and that it was "now a matter for the Joint Chiefs of Staff to make a decision"The threat was clear;either he or Montgomery would have to be removed,and given Marshall's forthright support for the Supreme Commander,it was obvious that it was Montgomery who would have to go.Eisenhower had finally reached the point of no return with Montgomery.Many commentators and historians have expressed surprise that he had been so patient. From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 438 DeGuingand considered this deposition "too frightful to contemplate" and asked IKE a stay of execution for 24 hrs so that he could speak to Monty.When Freddie returned to Monty and told him he might have to go "he was genuinely and completely taken by surprise and found it difficult to grasp.Montgomery's bluff,after all his arguments and threats had finally been called."What shall I do,Freddie? he asked his Chief of Staff,and DeGuingand drafted a placatory message which Montgomery duly signed.Ultimately as on so many other times during the war,it was Eisenhower who made the relationship work.Montgomery later related to Brooke that the command question was settled and that it would be quite useless to open it up again - which what was preciously what Brooke had previously told him. From Blood,Sweat and Arrogance,by Gordon Corrigan,page 477 Brooke and the other chiefs of staff should never have allowed Churchill to dictate minor detail,nor to sack Generals and Admirals on a whim(the Air Marshalls got off lightly). Probably the worst example of picking the wrong man and backing him come what may,was in Brooke's constant support for Montgomery,who should have been dismissed once it became clear that he could not operate in a coalition environment,but whose retention soured Anglo-American relations for years after the War
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  1203. The amusement continues, little villa,please tell me you don't operate a vehicle. If it wasn't for the looming Russian threat Ike would have told the crown to send Monty to the home you reside at where you both could play with your plastic green soldiers
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  1204.  @thevillaaston358  when Burns gets his ankle monitor removed he will deal with you buster 🤣
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  1205.  @thevillaaston358  The Horror,did he take a break from taking a break? 🤣
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  1206. You've been letdown good so the truth has finally caught up with you selling novels
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  1207. You're a sucker for video because his conclusions are designed to get Monty off the hook not Historical accuracy
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  1208. Center of Military History,The United States Army,The Sigrfied Line CampaignPage174 Spearheading the 30 Corps ground column reconnaissance troops of the Guards Armoured Division linked with Colonel Tucker's 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 the morning of D plus 2, 19 September. (See Map IV) Major formations of the British armor were not far behind. From that point priority of objectives within the sector of the 82d Airborne Division shifted unquestionably in the direction of the bridge at Nijmegen. Already at least thirty-three hours behind schedule because of earlier delays south of Eindhoven and at Zon the ground column had to have a way to get across the Waal. Pages 184-185 First Attempts To Drive on ArnhemCounting from the time of first contact between the British ground column and the 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 on D plus 2, 19 September, until the Nijmegen bridge was taken at 1910 on D plus 3, 20 September, a case could be made to show that the ground column was delayed at Nijmegen for almost thirty-five hours Yet this would be to ignore the facts that first arrivals of the ground column represented no more than a forward reconnaissance screen and that several hours elapsed before sizable British units began to arrive. Indeed, almost another twenty-four hours would elapse after capture of the Nijmegen bridge before the British would renew the drive on Arnhem
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  1209. From a Pulitzer Prize Winner,where as we all know you and your sock accounts just pull it From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 281 Montgomery monitored the battle through liaison officers and radio reports He had neither visited the battlefield at Market Garden nor seen his field commanders he was having his portrait painted,again and seemed intranced by the experience,boasting that his likeness would "create a tremendous sensation at next year's Academy."Yet at 10:50 PM on wednesday he felt confident enough of the view from Brussels to cable Eisenhower: Things are going to work out alright...the British airborne division at Arnhem has been having a bad time but their situation should be eased now that we can adv- ance nothwards from Nijmegen to their support.There is a sporting chance that we should capture the bridge at Arnhem. In the subsequent message to Brooke,he added, "I regard the general situation on the rivers as now very satisfctory" This assessment was nothing less than hallucinatory.Despite the valor at Nijmegen,any "sporting chance" to take the Arnhem Bridge had passed Things in Holland were not going to work out,even if the high command did not yet know it .As XXX Corps account later acknowledged,"in front,on the flanks,and in the rear,all was not well."
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  1210. https://www.historynet.com/eisenhower-fire-1944-45.htm Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them. Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance. Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through them and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe.
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  1211. Pierre Puddles,Every thing Monty touched turned to shit.Which gives credibility to the rumor he's related to you. Burns the 82nd fought in the desert,Italy and D-Day.Only elements of 1st Para fought in Italy,they never fought entirely as a division.Also Roy Urquhart never led airborne troops - he was regular army but Monty put him there.He stalled at Oosterbeek within 3 hrs those units got surrounded then got stuck hiding from the Heer for 38 hrs in an attic.By then their fate was sealed.
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  1212. that would bitch slapp you,monty and your family trees- -keyboard kommando
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  1213. Inbred boy burns has the constable removed your ankle bracelet yet ? so you may tackle history at the Library
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  1214. We know you are puddles Pierre and swiss boy burns.
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  1215. 1st off put that thing out or you'll burn your fingers.Also You are a fugitive from the law of averages and in line for another beating which if you ask me nicely I shall duly administer
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  1216. BTW babbling Burns it's 80 yrs starting this week that Monty led one of the largest retreats in Military History @ Dunkirk.It's also 75 years ago this week for Victory in Europe.See what a Super Power can do in just 5 yrs.Even correcting all the damage done by the crumbling crown and it's rancid runt got themselves into - You're welcome Giovanni Burns
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  1217. NO TIK is a revisionists and had to take one board down. For shall we say taking creative license
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  1218. Burns you lying hound the whole thing was his idea along with giving you a sponge batH.His boss clearly blamed him and he admitted it.Be a dear and pick up your plastic soldiers off of the floor the nurses keep slipping on them
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  1219. Burns you've been rearranging words that were never said to make your bent narrative look legit.If you keep that up they will revoke your internet priviliges at the home there.If you behave they will remove the ankle monitor and let you visit a real library and perhaps learn - it could really happen you know
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  1220. Ohio University in Athens has Cornelius Ryan's Archive's
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  1221. Ya he asked Lucian what he thought
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  1222. Sad making up accounts to agree with yourself - get a life you twat.Did you visit that Montgomery Memorial in Arnhem,oops that's right there isn't one
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  1223. Not Really
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  1224. Monty the poof saw to that when the schrew attempted to take credit when in fact he fell back in the ardennes there were 610,000 GIs,500,000 landsers and 55,000 tommies in and at the Bulge
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  1225. Again 4 years to come across the crummy channel GIs came 3,500 miles you have bad reactions to facts. Pull your head out of bernards backside. O'Connor,Slim and Auchinleck were all much more capable commanders. try reading the Full Monty or have mum do it for you
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  1226. Monty liked the lads so i see why you 2 squids run to defend him
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  1227. Good Post though 2 yrs old I had read his memoirs also.Ramsay was as good as they came.Just a few gleanings.He had planned much of the D-Day landings and had great insight into tactical and logistical manners understanding what was needed moving forward. Much of SHAEF evidently was against OMG The Year of D-Day:The 1944 Diary of Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay,p.152 - On the eve of the Arnhem Operation Montgomery had made the following entry into the 21st Army Group log: from a purely British point of view Antwerp had never been a vital necessity. The Year of D-Day:The 1944 Diary of Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay, p. 151 - Montgomery:"1st Army have withdrawn 6th Division - ready to launch attack to the Rhine with British 2nd Army on October 12th."(Author's Footnote p.152 - This indicates that even after the failure,Montgomery still intended to move toward the Ruhr before opening the Scheldt) Ramsay: this afforded me the que I needed to lambaste him for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed .Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply .Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow The Year of D-Day:The 1944 Diary of Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay p. 159 "the Army was far behind organising as I knew they would be as they entirely under estimated their task and Monty had not given the Canadians sufficient support for the work (Author's Footnote In fact ,Montgomery had finally committed himself without reservation to the Scheldt campaign in a directive issued on 16 October, after receiving 3 "hurry up" messages from Eisenhower during the previous week)
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  1228. sources oh really the river crossing in broad daylight that killed 89 and wounded 151 of the 82nd in what Horrocks callant the most gallant attack he witnessed in the whole of the war. How can you get a mouth full of of food with your head up bernard's backside? Not that you'd complain about that How about some academia instead of arses like dave hac Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: "Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine" Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02.General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Sir Francis De Guingand, From Brass Hat to Bowler Hat, p.16 Unfortunately I cannot say that I did support Operation MARKET-GARDEN Montgomery's supposed master stroke; but as I was in the hospital in Aldershot I was powerless to dissuade him. I attempted to, on the telephone; for there were too many ifs in the plan and Prince Bernard was warning, from his intelligence network in Bolland, that German armored units were stationed there However, to my telephone warnings Montgomery merely replied, 'You are too far away Freddie, and don't know what's going on' Liddell-Hart, History Second World War, p. 594. Liddell-Hart, although understanding Montgomery's reasoning, believed that the last true hope to end the war in 1944 dissolved with the halting of Patton's tanks on 23 August 1944.
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  1229. MONTY GARDEN,your puuf was nowhere to be found
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  1230.  @johnpeate4544  they were tired from Sicily and Italy where Patton took Palermo/messina and Clark took Salerno,Naples and Room - now you know John Burns More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1231. No Monty showed up - Blisterhead
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  1232. Maybe if Monty had opened the Scheldt estuary then actually showed up for his own operation.....it still would not have worked the Germans were coming in force.A whole 5 tanks-stopped and 43 wessex was no where around - MONTY GARDEN
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  1233. Bullcrap bullshitter Burns,the Tanks were late then a whole 5 show up,then they stop,kind of like you working up the nerve to ask out a bint - ya know on occasion when they let you out
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  1234. Your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones.Irving Burns Guards Armored and 43 Wessex just arrived in Nijmegan,tell them the war is over and all is forgiven.
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  1235. So a Brit prints an article getting the Brits off of the hook for a British Plan after it's failure - seems he's doing the same thing.Browing was co-located with Gavin on the ridge/heights.They didn't get their signals crossed.There was chaos all up/down the 70 mile corridor,that neither Monty or Horrocks appeared for - there's your culprits right there
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  1236. revisionist bullshit The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies From Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed From With Prejudice, by Air Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Page 599 " Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal." From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsay ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10thPanzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact.Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" - Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him
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  1237. There was no Monty at all either but Twinings Tea stopped that column many times
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  1238. The failure of Montgomery to heed the allied reconnaissance information during the planning was the biggest flaw. The ability of the Germans to respond and take a mishmash of broken, depleted troops, hastily assembled from miscellaneous units with a wild assortment of backgrounds then organize them to fight was a big factor in the outcome. An actual Field Marshall Walter Model was there and directing operations in person Monty captured neither the V-2 launch sites, Arnhem or Antwerp during Market Garden. And the reprisals brought on the honger winter The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.262-63 Brigadier E.T. Williams, Montgomery's Intelligence Chief cautioned the Field Marshall that the Allies "enemy appreciation was very weak" and that no proper study of the ground around Arnhem had been made . A radio decrypt also revealed the enemy expected a XXX Corp thrust toward Nijmegen. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.270 one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in the area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este​ from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex. British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed
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  1239. Crap plan Villafication,the moron Monty had no business leading a boy scout assembly as he repeatedly demonstrated
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  1240. dave try some actual history Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings Three distinguished British officers who fought in Holland that winter and later became army commanders believed that the Allied cause could have profited immeasurably from giving a more important role to Patton. -Lieutenant Edwin Bramall said: “I wonder if it would have taken so long if Patton or Rommel had been commanding.” -Capt. David Fraser who as a Grenadier took part in the Battle of Nijmegen wrote later "with out Antwerp, I do not believe that Market Garden could possibly have been exploited for the purpose for which it was devised. Operation Market Garden was as an exact sense ,futile .It was thoroughly a bad idea, badly planned and only tragically redeemed by the outstanding courage of those who executed it". He also believed that the northern axis of advance was always hopeless, because the terrain made progress so difficult. He suggests: “We might have won in 1944 if Eisenhower had reinforced Patton. There were bigger hills further south, but fewer rivers.” Fraser recalled in his memoirs "Nevertheless I remember the impressive silhouette of the long bridge across the Maas (Meuse) at Grave. This had been captured by the American airborne troops and took us across the first main water obstacle at about ten o’clock in the morning of 19th September. By then the operation had been running for over forty hours and was already well behind schedule." -Brigadier Michael Carver argued that Montgomery’s single thrust could never have worked: “Patton’s army should have been leading the U.S. 12th Army Group.” Such speculations can never be tested, but it seems noteworthy that two British officers who later became field-marshals and another who became a senior general believed afterwards that the American front against Germany in the winter of 1944 offered far greater possibilities than that of the British in Holland, for which Montgomery continued to cherish such hopes.
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  1241. Brereton went to Monty and Monty didn't want to change anything.That's a fact
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  1242. Ike wasn't it was Monty's baby,even Tedder,Ramsey,Brooke,Bedell-Smith all laid it at the feet of Montgomery - wher it rightfully belongs.Lot of revisionist here writing novels
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  1243.  @ALMdawgfan  IKE is just as culpable as Monty for launching this very bad plan
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  1244. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan. From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed.Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944:p. 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  1245.  @ALMdawgfan  Cornell is a spin doctor and honest discourse is impossible .In the highly unlikely case that OMG got to Arnhem.The Heer was there in force right by the Ruhr.They had already been bringing tanks and material in by Rail.The Allies had no way to refit,resupply and reinforce.That is why the deep water port of Antwerp was neccesary.- for big ships.Cherboug was to far away to be lugging supply.SHAEF had already hurt the advance by stopping Bradley's 12th Army to give Monty - who was getting drubbed in the Press a shot,Monty never lead the Charge again .It took him 6 months to cross the Rhine right there .In that time the GIs fought thru Metz,Lorraign,the Ardennes,the Hurtgen and across the Rhine before the banal braggart.
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  1246. From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend." With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions".General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted.
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  1247. From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group.IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to the left flank(21st Army) through out the campaign.Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies.IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks,yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks.
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  1248. Old Monty at least Japanese Commanders had the common decency to disembowel themselves after a disaster like this The Second World War by John Keegan,page 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable,since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary. From With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Cassel & Co.1st edition, copyright 1966 .Page 599 "Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal. From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke, entry for 5 October 1944:p. 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  1249. Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact.Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" Carlo D'este,Decision in Normandy From the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed. -
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  1250. From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor page 19 Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him.
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  1251. Not nearly as accurate too much too much Imperial Jingoism presented
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  1252. Bullshit try reading some books Monty didn't show up on the field of Battle.And got blasted off of the continent with out the GIs.And only returned with them
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  1253. From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page415 Montgomery wrote on December 15th "that Hitler's plight was so dire that he cannot stage major offensive operations" (Oops,on December 16th the Ardennes offensive began.The twisted twirp wasn't even right for a day.)
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  1254. A Bridge too Far was so accurate that Monty didn't appear in it either.
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  1255. Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.113​ yet Dempsey writing in his diary, pondering the wisdom of the Arnhem Operation harbored the gravest doubts about crossing the Rhine at Arnhem. "It's clear that the enemy is bringing up all the reinforcements he can lay his hands on for the defense of the Albert Canal and that he appreciates the importance of the area Arnhem-Nijmegen. it looks as though he's going to do all he can to hold it." Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.160 By September 1944 Air Force Planners were unable to see a happy outcome. More over it was documented that because Arnhem lay so far in land they did not expect to attain outright tactical surprise. The previous Comet Operation air warning stated "Surprise is extremely unlikely and the enemy will undoubtedly have knowledge of the approach of Troop Carrier formations by radar alert or visual reconnaissance" Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.196 Lift details are some what of technical character which is why few historians address them in any detail.They concern time involved in turning around aircraft for the 2nd & 3rd lifts, the range from UK bases to their objectives in Holland,weather an visibility conditions and the co-ordination of the air lift with fighter Escort and Flak suppression operations. All of these were interlinked. Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.198 At the beginning of September 1944 Lt.General Brereton had already warned Eisenhower that it would be very difficult to stage an airborne operation as far east as the Rhine River from bases in the UK (SHAEF in a memorandum)
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  1256. The amusement continues,Please tell me you don't operate a vehicle.Good thing the Burns family of Warblers were still tossing back some ales and throwing darts back on the Island. Burns you are obviously referring to Monty Garden,that is what happens when a WW1 sargent is put in charge - DISASTER. Repeatedly Big Brother escorted the crown Wannabes about to give the Red Army/Germans the appearence of a strong front.
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  1257. Splish-Splash Johnny, Monty's running the bath.Take as long as you need with typing in and out of your sock accounts - when you're not cleaning your teeth with your finger Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 Johnny - which so called empire fought to the last colonial - ask Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and especially the Irish.Hint the same empire that took 4 years to come back to the continent that it only took 20 days to leave?
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  1258. Stop giving yourself the thumbs up. Irving Burns you chronic bed wetter imagine what this Failed Marshmellow Montgomery would say about IKE if he had lost say 200,000 @ Dunkirk or 81,000 @ Singapore or 25-30,000 @ Tobruk but who the hell has losses like that ?
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  1259. exactly ,Antwerp had to be opened 1st if this very bad plan even had a chance.Going up 64 miles on one elevated lane is not a good idea and rather easy to defend as the ad hoc German units proved
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  1260.  @magnuscritikaleak5045  you mean the bilderbergs?
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  1261. Monty,Gavin was actually fighting and following orders.And of course Horrocks who said the tanks would be on time and in full force - neither was true
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  1262. he only won with overwhelming supplies in men,materiel and munitions.Even you could have won in N.Africa Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 317 Montgomery got along with neither the Americans nor the Canadians.After Dunkirk the French absolutely refused to serve under a British commander.Such widespread mistrust of the little British General did not bode well for future Allied operations in which Monty played a role. -Montgomery was very much a set-piece general whose mental rigidity and egotism left him unable to respond when battles didn't go exactly as he planned.And whose skills and abilities were grossly inflated by the British press and political leadership.Montgomery who was busy fighting with set piece tactics from the last war; Montgomery never learned the tactics of high speed mobile warfare.Unfortunately, Bradley and Eisenhower most probably aquiesed to Mongomery's demand for the sake of Allied unity.ButMonty, was lacking the flexibility for independent thinking necessary to adapt to changing conditions. . -(Chapter 10: General Montgomery's Bitter Pills, page 312) I would submit that Prime Minister Churchill and the CIGS Allen Brooke were culpable in this ruse as well, as they were committed to ensuring the press showed the British in the best possible light. Having the Americans close the Gap, could well have finished the war early and showed the British to be struggling with manpower and unable to compete in a mechanized, mobile war, where the Americans truly were the masters. -American commanders Eisenhower and Bradley covering for Montgomery in the interest of harmony in the allies camp.it was Monty's bruised ego that he would not permit the Americans (and Patton in particular) to be praised for what his British 21st Army Group had failed to accomplish. Monty's efforts to attack south and close the gap were curiously half-hearted. Rather than a full-blooded push using his experienced British divisions, Monty entrusted the effort to two Canadian and Polish units in which he had shown little prior confidence. Why? Certainly, Monty realized/resented the accolades heaped on Patton by both American and British press and the innuendo that Monty's troops weren't doing their part. -Montgomery's campaign shortcomings which led to this result were manifested in his failure to capture Caen and the Port of Antwerp on the allied timetable, his failure to close the Falaise Gap until it was too late, and his carefully orchestrated "showcase" British 2nd Army crossing of the Rhine (when elements of Patton's 3rd Army and General Courtney Hodge's U.S. 1st Army were already across). Montgomery's crossing, which was augmented by U.S. Airborne troops, resulted in some 5,000 allied casualties.
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  1263. Bullshit his plan he pushed for it,stop your juvenile nonsense.John I've left responses repeatedly to this malarkey
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  1264. Hey Lucian your hero never showed up for an operation he later admitted "a big mistake on my part" - that was obvious
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  1265. Monty got his wish and Disaster was the result Sicily,Caen,Falaise,Monty Garden .He worse at commanding than little Villa the badmouther of dead GIs is at commenting. At least he managed to not get his ass kicked off of the continent...AGAIN
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  1266. Get help are you Monty's little swiss friend?davey or John Burns whoever you are going by now
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  1267. Monty swam back faster than Ramsey's Navy
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  1268. Look up Admiral Ramsey
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  1269. What report?From whom - source please From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed.Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later * From page 19* ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp* From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944:p. 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." *He didn't defeat squat,in the desert,Normandy,Netherlands or the Ardennes he was along for the ride.When auchinlech was fired Monty didn't move.Between the Navy,Air Corp,ULTRA and the US Army & supplies he simply hitched a ride.Ike knowingly kept the British relevant in order to keep them in the alliance so that American soldiers would not have to shoulder the entire casualty burden on the Western Front. As Bradley said, Montgomery rarely won a battle any other competent general wouldn't have won as well or better. Gelb also notes, that Montgomery was not only famously insensitive and deliberately insulting to his brothers in arms, but he was capable of outright lies if he thought it would elevate him above potential rivals
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  1270.  @6handicap604  some great insight and responses,Johnny reads from the Cornhole Chronicles and pulls facts from his ample backside From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944:p. 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group.IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to the left flank(21st Army) through out the campaign.Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies.IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks, yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks From Blood,Sweat and Arrogance,by Gordon Corrigan,page 417-18 National myth has it that Monty took over a defeated,demoralized and badly led 8th Army,and by his own abilities and powers of leadership won the great victory of Alamein and then went on to drive the Germans & Italians out of North Africa in a whirlwind campaign that could not have been achieved by anyone else. We know this because Montgomery has told us so,not only by his masterly grasp of public relations at the time but in one of the most self serving memoirs ever foisted on the reading public ,one that did immense harm to Anglo-American relations after the war. "Monty's memoirs are the greatest work of fiction since chaste and fidelity were added to the French marriage vows"
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  1271.  @6handicap604  They had some decent commanders why they settled on Monty is almost a crime against humanity
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  1272.  @6handicap604  that was pretty much last chance at repectability in the eyes of Allied command and commanders
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  1273. The evidence was Monty again ran advantages into the sand with his unimaginative schemes,a gross underestimation of the enemy and a serious misjudgment of the terrain and unwillingness to show up and direct like an actual Field Marshall - Walter Model.Biggest Air Drop up until that point and the pathetic pratt couldn't be bothered? The Australian Chester Wilmot generally an admirer of British rather than American military conduct in north-west Europe, nonetheless observed brutally “what was at this stage the gravest shortcoming of the British army: the reluctance of commanders at all levels to call upon their troops to press of regardless of losses, even in operations which were likely to shorten the war and thus save casualties in the long run.” Freddie de Guingand, Montgomery’s Chief of Staff, confided to Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay on 28 November (according to the admiral’s diary) that he was “rather depressed at the state of the war in the west . . . the SHAEF plan had achieved nothing beyond killing and capturing a some Germans, and that we were no nearer to knocking out Germany” Between the beginning of November and mid-December 1944, British Second Army advanced just ten miles As the Dutch poster Oddball SOK stated on this board Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944. So tell me, how come ?How come the Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden, and Monty/Horrocks could NOT do the same ? Not in September, not in October and not in November.
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  1274.  @johnburns4017  More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1275.  @thevillaaston7811  Idiotic claims of which you are the grand master
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  1276.  @johnlucas8479  wrote So were would the other 20 Division come from. ----------------------------------------------------- From Burns backside where he fetches everything else
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  1277. Burns you specialize in pointless points there's a point on your head.Go tell your novels to the French/Dutch/Poles/Belgians and specially the Czechs who begged Monty to come across a the channel Monty never showed up to the fight at OMG - after saying he'd be in Berlin and never made Arnhem. Real fine Field Marshall - said no one ever
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  1278. All these years sitting on your ample backside in front of the monitor left you....resembling Churchill after a bad nite
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  1279. From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page407 Churchill had cabled Montgomery "I greatly fear the dwindling of the British Army is a factor in France as it will affect our right to express our opinion upon strategic and other matters" From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page415 Montgomery wrote on December 15th "that Hitler's plight was so dire that he cannot stage major offensive operations" On December 16th the Ardennes offensive began. (OOPSThe twistwed twirp wasn't even right for a day.)
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  1280. More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013
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  1281. Your family should never have let you play with the air hammers - it's too late now
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  1282. Burns you've come far for the only surviving ebola chimp - have them loosen your ankle monitor
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  1283. Tell your droopy delusions to your subservant saps in Trinidad or Tobago.Monty lead nothing and in fact wanted to retreat - would you like that link again? It's Friday Johnny get all gussied up in your "Who Farted" shirt and head out
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  1284. You wait behind the drapes of every comment section don't you? You never lived down your 60 yr old mum walking you to school in 1st grade. Be a dear And pick up your little plastic soldiers off of the steps mum will be home shortly and could slip on them.She works so hard to pay for your therapy and all .You don't want to return to the home again.
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  1285. Your career as a historian continues to sky rocket - said no one ever. Evidently ou missed history class like bernard missed showing up for his own debacle Monty Garden. Johnny the Grenadier Guards and 43rd Wessex have just shown up tell them the war is over and all is forgiven. Of course take a tea break 1st
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  1286.  @johnburns4017  Monty was a propped up fraud who only won when the big boys got involved. He'waiting for you in the channel bring your loofah johnny.Go tell Norway,Netherlands,France,Belguim and the poles.Monty beat them all up the gang planks - even your uncles
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  1287.  @barrettcarr1413  burns is a monty nutthugger that makes crap up and is the governments car. Still pissed the US had to cross the Atlantic just to make it safe for Monty to cross the channel
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  1288. The Russians used the Broad front also many places/points to cover instead of focusing on a single advance.And after this it took the so called Field Marshall 6 months to cross the Rhine after Bradley.Patton/Hodges and the 291st Enginners
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  1289. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan. I've got a quiz when are you going to kiss a female and not Monty's dank crevasse. it should be on you bucket list of things to do before you take a dirt nap - which won't be long sitting in front of the Monitor as much as you do
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  1290. Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp* From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944:p. 219* "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  1291. Bullcrap if Monty didn't like the order of battle he should have made a combat assessment and made any changes like a real Field MarshallmModel for instance.Brereton wanted it changed but Monty left to get his picture painted
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  1292. Little villa his dad obviously wasn't hanging around MONTY or your dad who wasn't there
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  1293. No they didn't arrive on time they only made 7 miles the 1st day.And the bridge at son was blown up.Seriously, get lost kid, go away. You're obviously British and are being patriotic about this Arnhem, Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, p. 333-Tom Hoare,who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes: 'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings, p.50 Jack Reynolds and his unit, the South Staffords, were locked into the long, messy, bloody battle. There was no continuous front, no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed. Armageddon:The Battle for Germany, by Max Hastings - Bob Peatling was keeping a diary, to relieve the dreadful boredom. “I am getting fed up with hearing German voices,” he wrote. *"There is no noise of any firing whatever. I can’t make it out. Field-Marshal Montgomery has dropped a clanger at Arnhem Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.” Leo Major, the most decorated Canadian soldier of WWII From the Ottawa Citizen,May 7th ,2005 Mr. Major less than charitable to Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery, who headed up British and Canadian forces. Field Marshall Montgomery's ill-fated thrust deep into occupied Holland in the fall of 1944, a paratroop attack on river crossings, was an utter failure and undertaken at the expense of a broad steady advance. That delayed the the liberation of the country's biggest cities, Mr. Major figures, and condemned their populace to slow starvation through the infamous "Hunger Winter" that took the lives of 20,000 Dutch civilians Pte. Major had an opportunity to express his displeasure with Field Marshall Monty soon afterward It was during the battle for Scheldt, an estuary guarding the Belgian port of Antwerp. The exploit was supposed to win him a field decoration directly from the hands of Field Marshall Montgomery, but Pte. Major couldn't bring himself to accept. "He had made an awful mistake. I didn't like him at all."
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  1294. Oh lookie monty fanbois taking a break from taking a break - you windbags have lied once and that has been continuously Alan Brooke's own words blaming bernard with Adml Ramsay chiming in​ "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow" Monty admitting it The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here, Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth
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  1295.  @johnburns4017  the Guards Armored and the 43rd Wessex just made Nijmegan,tell them the war is over and all of their montying is forgiven you are called Great Britain but when the Wehrmacht threatens you with annihilation, you became "The United Kingdom" You slogging wankers fought to the last colonial - usually the Aussies and had to escape on fishing boats 30 miles across the English Channel .Ya empire being evacuated from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 -Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 -Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Sad but expected Just go ask the French/Dutch/Poles who watched Brooke & Bernard take to the boats as they were taking bullets at Dunkerque.Go ahead cross the channel and ask them - shouldn't take you 4 years like it did bernard. Who evidently gave you the Full Monty again. Stick to pushing around Malvinas Goat herders or Ghandi disciples :face-blue-smiling:
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  1296. You imperial peddlers of drivel and your national pout of a lost empire, attempting to twist the truth. Look, you 2 are confused, nationalistic British bozos spitting out complete fantasy nonsense - obviously well versed in mythology. Montgomery was the least essential allied officer, and in fact an impediment to operations and a malevolent drag on American logistics & provisions. Montgomery's unimaginative and extravagant methods added to immense allied burden. His handling of the campaign was as bankrupt as his 1st World War ideas
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  1297. This monty circle jerk is laughable go across the channel and ask the euros - shouldn't take you 4 yrs like it did monty. But burns still has his restraining order and ankle monitor so who knows The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.210 SHAEF and Eisenhower should have been focused the Allied attack on one feasible break through area. Whether it be be Patton in Lorraine,Gerow at Wallendorf, or Collins at Achen. Instead it decided to concentrate on the risky ill advised attack on Arnhem The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.213-14 On 29 August Horrocks XXX Corp set out on a drive that some conclude might have altered the course of the war. They advanced 250 miles through northern France and into Belgium unopposed and captured the strategic port of Antwerp virtually with out a fight. Horrocks admitted as much "we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might have even have succeeded in bouncing across the Rhine - if we had taken the chance and and carried straight on" There were no significant German forces between Horrocks and the Rhine.But instead of ordering Horrocks forward on September 4 Montgomery halted him. (Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.170,by R.W. Thompson) Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.170,by R.W. Thompson In Early September,Montgomery failed to exploit his opportunity by failing to cross the Albert Canal and advance down the Walcheren Rd to capture the coastal batteries situated along the Scheldt that prevented shipping from reaching the port of Antwerp and delivering critical supplies to the Allied Armies massing along the Siegfried Line The Germans quickly took advantage of Monty's failure by sending in heavy reinforcements to the Walcheren area. It would take 21 st Army group more than 2 months to clear the region of enemy troops R.W.Thompson who was an Intelligence Officer in the British Army during WWII,also lays the blame for the army's failure with the Field Marshall "At the crucial hour leadership was lacking,the decision that only Field Marshall Montgomery could have exercised for which the hour demanded on seizing options and opportunities" (Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.171,by R.W. Thompson) Horrocks: The General Who Led From the Front,by Philip Warner,p.111 - "There was only a single low grade division ahead of Horrocks on Sept 4. it was spread over a 50 mile front along the Albert Canal. Horrocks believed that this could have been brushed aside and XXX Corps could have gone on to cross the Rhine"
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  1298. Taken from a Dutch poster Adis Hasancevic What i never understood about Market Garden is the fact that after the Allies capture Rhine crossing at Arnhem the plan was to turn right and strike towards Ruhr and North German plain, right? Well, i myself live in Deventer, about 55 km north of Arnhem, as I am sure you know there is one pretty big obstacle after Arnhem and towards Germany, the Ijsel river. What were they thinking about that? The Germans could easily blow all bridges between Arnhem and Zwolle and still keep the Allies contained in The Netherlands and behind a pretty big obstacle. I've read a lot of books about Market Garden and only in few of them is Ijsel river ever being mentioned, and then as kind of a foot note.
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  1299. The failure of Montgomery to heed the allied reconnaissance information during the planning was the biggest flaw. The ability of the Germans to respond and take a mishmash of broken, depleted troops, hastily assembled from miscellaneous units with a wild assortment of backgrounds then organize them to fight was a big factor in the outcome. Also the Germans falling back on their stores of Men,material,tanks and artillary,while the allied port to support this debacle wasn't even open ♦ Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border town of Neerpelt, until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:35 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. ♦The Armored column made it a whole 7 miles the 1st day as Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bringing the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but Monty's pathetic planning.This operation is a prime example of the clownish incompetence of his command. But in Britain that get you the title of Field Marshall ♦You think Monty could have inconvenienced himself to attend his own operational debacle that after the war he fessed up to? Largest Air Drop in History up until that point and the poof couldn't be bothered? There were cock ups all the way back to the Belgian Border and it didn't involve Gavin or the 82nd.Ya but go ahead and try to blame this abortion on an Americans 55 miles down the road. ♦ And why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site? ♦Why were Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchful RAF at Pannerden, and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same? Not in September, not in October and not in November ♦Monty neither captured the V-2 launch sites, Arnhem or Antwerp during Market Garden. And the reprisals brought on the honger winter - great job
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  1300.  @jacobgorman3145  Bad plan stem to stern.The Air Marshalls were against it Alan Brooke and Adml Ramsay both wanted the Port of Antwerp open 1st - made perfect sense. An operation this big had to be supported en masse. Not using American Trucks lugging food/fuel/men/materiel 483 miles from the Port of Cherbourg. The Britsh Austin trucks were breaking down with bad piston rings and their replacement engines had the same problem. Ike only caved in to give Monty his narrow thrust - that of course not only failed but he didn't have the dignity to show up for. History proved it was a debacle.Nothing to argue about
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  1301. Truth comes in small packages no sense in muddying the waters.But what if,But what if,But what if,Dragging in every little irrelevant point that couldn't possibly rectify what wasn't solvant or sound in the 1st place - Monty and to a lesser extent IKE own this debacle
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  1302. I have no idea what you are banging ON about. You either don't care to read actual history or you must be British trying to resurrect Monty in which case is indefensible. I can recommend some books for you but you may need someone to expalin them to you.The Germans lost for a lot of reasons Fighting against the USSR/USA are chiefly amongst thema
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  1303. Bullcrap Monty knew ahead of time they only had not only enough time but enough transports for one drop a day.AND the air marshalls didn't have access to ULTRA and Monty absolutely knew the 9th & 10th SS Panzers were refitting and reiforcing at Arnhem. AND of course you know Bernard didn't actually show up like an actual Field Marshall Model The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr without Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Monty would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  1304. Taken from a Dutch poster Adis Hasancevic What i never understood about Market Garden is the fact that after the Allies capture Rhine crossing at Arnhem the plan was to turn right and strike towards Ruhr and North German plain, right? Well, i myself live in Deventer, about 55 km north of Arnhem, as I am sure you know there is one pretty big obstacle after Arnhem and towards Germany, the Ijsel river. What were they thinking about that? The Germans could easily blow all bridges between Arnhem and Zwolle and still keep the Allies contained in The Netherlands and behind a pretty big obstacle. I've read a lot of books about Market Garden and only in few of them is Ijsel river ever being mentioned, and then as kind of a foot note. YUP - MONTY GARDEN
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  1305. Clean monty's cack out of your eyes,the Dutch hate Monty to this day - coward is the word
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  1306. The British sat on their backsides in their American tanks until 2:35 pm the 1st day watching supply transports filled with men/materiel transports fly over. Did they think they would catch up as Germans miles ahead were grabbing the goods that fell from the sky? - leaving the Britsh Thank You notes. Is that what Monty,Dempsey,Horrocks call seizing the intiative?If they were charging hard and left at 1st light((unless you're in the BEF) like Monty told IKE perhaps they take the bridge at Zon the 1st day. The armored column had made it 3 miles and then was stopped by panzerfaust teams taking out 9 shermans.Hell if Dempsey/Horrocks waited longer GERRY probably falls asleep. The Column pulled into valkenswaard after just 7 miles made and still an 1 & 1/2 daylight - now wonder an Empire was lost. MONTY GARDEN
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  1307. And it was very clear from the beginning that only one drop a day was doable as there were simply not enough trained air crews/pilots/planes to go around because of: OMG = Operation Monty Garden or more appropriately "Oh My God" ♦There was already 24/7 strategic bombing going on of the Reich and Bomber Harris and Hap Arnold were not cutting their crews for Monty or anyone else ♦OMGwas cancelled previously as Operation Linnet and then Comet for good reasons by British Planners. Grabbing 2 more American AB Divisions doesn't eliminate those complications. ♦D-Day had 30 mile flights across the Channel. ♦Market Garden had 300 mile flights(one way) into NE Netherlands ♦D-Day had 900 flights. Market Garden had 1600 Flights ♦D-Day was June 6th.Market Garden was September 17th And had over 2 hrs less daylight to do all that in ♦So there were 700 MORE FLIGHTS than D-Day. They were 300 miles away in North East Netherlands not 30 miles across a channel. And 2 hrs less daylight to do it in. SMDH With Monty's pathetic plan, the HEER only needed to focus on a single road and cut it off. More over , thanks to Monty , the allies were very lacking supplies , which if he had been clearing out the Germans north of Antwerp that was agreed to , it could by now not only supply him , but the American armies as well. ♦Ambition over reaching capability, shameful but expected With that in mind this is Montgomery's fault through and through, This comes back to bite Monty in the ass, this is not Eisenhower's or Gavin's fault , the Americans halted 2 other US armies and gave ALL of the supplies to one of his allies instead , in this case Montgomery , to execute his operation to end the war by Christmas. The Folly of Generals, by David P.Colley,p.210 SHAEF and Eisenhower should have been focused the Allied attack on one feasible break through area. Whether it be Patton in Lorraine, Gerow at Wallendorf, or Collins at Achen. Instead it decided to concentrate on the risky ill advised attack on Arnhem.
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  1308.  @thevillaaston358  More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1309. li' villa the Gerries blew it up thicko like they blew brooke and bernard off the continent 4 yrs earlier. Runaway - must be a Monty thing,go across and ask the the Euros - shouldn't take you 4 yrs like your field marshall
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  1310. Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,p.309-310. The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate. Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para* still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points. And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs*​ until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. *By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p. 215, Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit: The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent.If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night
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  1311. ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.359**As LT Brian Wilson put it "the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move" While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try too hard despite the urgency of the situation. Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair.
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  1312. More bullshit cornell - it was all monty's he was aware of all the uncertainties and like you lie about it later
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  1313. You're a myth in your land of make believe and revision,now go to bed Lucian
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  1314.  @arnesaknussemm2427  wasn't directed at you I agree and I like Monty Python,not Monty the so called Field Marshall he did indeed throw Sosabowski under the bus
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  1315. More bullshit the Reich knew the US shipyards were launching supply ships faster tah the Kreigs marine could sink them
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  1316. BurnHole It seems you and history have but a fleeting acquaintance From The Second World War by John Keegan,page 399 In 1944 the USA produced 47,000 tanks ,while Germany produced 29,600 tanks and assault guns.Britain in 1944 produced only 5000 tanks. * https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/lend-lease-act-1* Churchill warned Roosevelt that his country would not be able to pay cash for military supplies or shipping much longer https://www.historians.org/about-aha-and-membership/aha-history-and-archives/gi-roundtable-series/pamphlets/em-13-how-shall-lend-lease-accounts-be-settled-(1945)/how-muc Why couldn’t Britain pay?Just exactly what was Britain’s ability to keep on with cash payments in December 1940? She had entered the war in September 1939 with about 4.5 billion dollars of gold and investments in securities in the United States. Most of these belonged to private British citizens and British companies. During the first year of the war the British government had bought these holdings from its citizens, paying for them in British government bonds. Then it sold the securities and gold reserves for dollars, and pooled the whole amount in one fund. This process produced a supply of dollars on this side with which Britain could purchase war goods in the United States. From September 1939 to the end of 1940 the British managed to realize some 2 billion dollars—in addition to the 4.5 billion dollars mentioned above—from sales of gold newly mined in the British Empire, from exports, and other sources. But this additional amount had been spent in 1940 for war purchases, chiefly in the United States Thus, by December 1940, the British supply of dollars was down to about 2 billion. About 1.5 billion of this would be needed to pay for munitions and supplies already ordered in the United States but not yet delivered. So low was Britain’s dollar reserve that new orders for war goods had almost stopped at the time when she needed them most. The job placed before Congress was to provide the country with a law that would meet the situation in spirit and in fact. It required an epoch-making decision on policy and the setting up of machinery to provide the needed help in ships, planes, tanks, guns, food, and other supplies.
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  1317. *https://scarfandgoggles.wordpress.com/tag/100-octane/ * 100 Octane fuel and the Battle of Britain from the Scarf and Goggles Social Club March 2019 The Royal Air Force had agreed to a limited supply of 100-octane fuel in 1938, but the outbreak of war placed supply routes under threat until the USA invoked a revised Neutrality Act in late 1939; allowing large quantities of 100-octane fuel to be shipped from the United States. Those supplies began to reach front-line squadrons in bulk through the first half of 1940 and would see its first use in battle in defending the evacuation of Dunkirk, immediately prior to the Battle of Britain.Delivering those supplies was a fleet of tankers that was forced to brave not only the rigours of the North Atlantic but also the concentrated attacks of submarine and surface vessels. In total 29 fuel and oil tankers were sunk in the Atlantic during the period of the Battle of Britain, with the loss of 260 merchant sailors https://www.forces.net/heritage/history/battle-britain-inside-story-how-we-beat-luftwaffe 100 octane and the Battle of Britain part two “The near parity of Spitfire and Bf 109 should take into account the fact that the Germans used 87 octane fuel while by the time of the Battle of Britain, the RAF had overcome the limitations of the Neutrality Act to secure from the United States supplies of incomparably superior 100 octane fuel."This vastly improved the performance of the (Spitfire’s) Merlin engine, particularly the rate of climb. Speed was also improved.”
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  1318. Middle east oild fields weren't producing much back then you got most of your petrol from guess where? https://www.e-education.psu.edu/egee120/book/export/html/237 Americans Fuel Britain’s War Needs The two critical questions of importance to Britain for war with the Germans were whether oil would be available and if they could pay for it. The United States was responsible for two-thirds of total world production and, therefore, the answer to whether oil would be available was yes.To help Britain overcome the question of payment on March 1941, the Lend Lease was instituted. This removed the problem of finance as a constraint on American supply to Britain, since, with the Lend Lease, American oil could now be lent and repaid later. The neutrality legislation which had placed restrictions on the shipment of supplies was also gradually lifted to help loosen restrictions on shipment of supplies to Britain. Thus, by spring 1941, all the important steps had been taken to ensure adequate flow of oil from America to Britain In May 1941, even while the US was not yet in the war, Roosevelt appointed Interior Secretary Harold Ickes to the additional position of Petroleum Coordinator for National Defense, becoming once again the nation’s top oil man, or Oil Czar. Ickes had to turn around an industry that was coping with surplus to one that would maximize output and avert shortage. He had a huge liability, as the oil industry detested him from the previous encounters. While he had come to their aid in 1933, he subsequently had become very critical of the industry. Mobilizing the oil industry into one giant organization under government direction had been done quickly and efficiently in Britain but turned out to be different and difficult in the US. Ickes, however, managed to work closely and pragmatically with the industry and succeeded in disarming the hostility and ensuring effective cooperation in mobilizing the industry. Harold Ickes’ hand was strengthened when he was promoted to Petroleum Administrator for War (PAW) from Petroleum Coordinator while still Secretary of interior. Even as PAW, Ickes realized that, unlike the case in Britain, coordinating unity among the many competing US forces (Congress, the Administration, the companies, the press, etc.) in the US was very difficult. He managed to gradually establish an effective government-industry partnership and sought antitrust exemption from the Justice Department. Although there were temporary shortages, there was never a serious oil supply crisis in the US. The overall production record in the US was quite good - from 1940-1945, America’s overall production increased by 30% from 3.7 million barrels per day to 4.7 million barrels per day. Meanwhile, between December 1941 and August 1945, the Allies consumed 7 billion barrels of oil, 6 billion of which came from the United States It is also interesting to note that the wartime oil output was more than ¼ of all oil produced in the US from the time of Colonel Drake to 1941!
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  1319. I'll provide those quotes/sources if you'll stop posting.Instead of running away to other threads as usual and popping off again More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1320.  John Cornell  yes he did the poles and XXX Corp - it was in Hastings/Beevor,Keegans book
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  1321. Vile Anus you thicko you've ignored those quotes for 3 years .Ask the French/Poles and specially the Czechs what they think of the Pedo Market Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Monty is handed command .SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly.Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved .And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have been.Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics
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  1322. From Six Armies in Normandy,by John Keegan In just 30 days, Patton finished his sweep across France and neared Germany. The Third Army had exhausted its fuel supplies and ground to a halt near the border in early September.Allied supplies had been redirected northward for the normally cautious General Montgomery’s reckless Market Garden gambit. That proved a horrible scheme to leapfrog over the bridges of the Rhine River; it devoured Allied blood and treasure, and accomplished almost nothing in return. Meanwhile, the cutoff of Patton’s supplies would prove disastrous Scattered and fleeing German forces regrouped. Their resistance stiffened as the weather grew worse and as shortened supply lines began to favor the defense. There are many factors that can be cited for the failure of Operation Market Garden, all deserving of consideration: -The report by OB West blamed the decision to spread the airborne drop over more than one day as the main reason for the failure. -The Luftwaffe agreed and added that the airborne landings had been spread too thinly and too far from the Allied frontline. -General Student thought the airborne landings were a great success and blamed the failure on the slow progress of XXX Corps. In this respect, Generalfeldmarschall Model deserves credit for the skill with which he used the sparse resources available to him, particularly given the state Fifteenth Army was in at the time, and for recognising the importance of the Nijmegen bridges. -Lt General Brereton reported to Washington that Market had been a brilliant success but had been let down by Garden, with which Bradley in part agreed, blaming Montgomery and the slow advance by the British between Nijmegen and Arnhem. -Major General Urquhart blamed the fact that the drop zones for 1st Airborne were too far from the bridge and rather unfairly, his own actions on the first day. -Lt General Browning's report blamed XXX Corps' underestimation of the strength of the German forces in the area, the slowness with which it moved up the highway, the weather, his own communications staff and 2nd Tactical Air Force for failing to provide adequate air support. He also managed to get General Sosabowski dismissed from his command for his increasingly hostile attitude. *Field Marshal Montgomery blamed the slowness of XXX Corps in general and O'Connor in particular. Later, he partially blamed himself, but laid a large proportion of the blame on Eisenhower. "*. . . if the operation had been properly backed from its inception, and given the aircraft, ground forces, and administrative resources necessary for the job - it would have succeeded in spite of my mistakes, or the adverse weather, or the presence of 2nd SS Panzer Corps in the Arnhem area." There is also the matter of allowing the German Fifteenth Army to escape into northern Holland where it could defend the approaches to Arnhem by not clearing the Scheldt estuary, the nature of the highway along which XXX Corps had to advance (a two tank front), the failure to appreciate the unpredictability of the British weather in September, the critical requirement of good communications, which at that point in history was unlikely given the level of technology available and the blatant ignoring of intelligence (from both the Dutch resistance and reconnaissance flights) that armoured units had moved into the Arnhem area _Sosabowski in particular feared a flexible, speedy, and strong response, saying, “The British are not only grossly underestimating German strength in the Arnhem area, but they seem ignorant of the significance Arnhem has for the Fatherland.” IKE even stopped the Southern Thrust (the successful one) to support the ingate and he still faffed it
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  1323. Page 331 Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen
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  1324. They didn't because your crown sold them down the river,just like leaving the French to cover the Dunkirking More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1325. Un no and Bernard chickened out,so I see why you like him burns
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  1326.  @thevillaaston7811  before that pinheads the British pathfinders got taken prisoner with their radios .And who is we little villa these slappies More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1327. Little Villa, listening to mauevers,jesus thicko.Monty was worse of a commander than you are at commenting.I see you've thumbed up yourself with both the Burns and Aston accounts,just stop.And monty didn't have the balls to even show up for this debacle after insisting on it
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  1328. Sorry johnny when the odds were even Bernard got Dunkirked. Burns who was the fastest swimming away off the beach,which Uncle? Who ran up the gang planks the fastest,I mean besides Monty?
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  1329. Burns you whiny waif stick to pillow fights at least your losses there don't hurt as much
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  1330. The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, p.303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "And here I must admit a bad mistake on my part –I underestimated the difficulties of opening up the approaches to Antwerp so that we could get free use of the port." ( from Montgomery’s memoirs, p297)​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Alan Brooke placing the blame on Bernard Eisenhower's Armies, by Dr Niall Barr, page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden, Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer, noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary followed by an advance on the Rhine, the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. "During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. *I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place" Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..... "The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knockout blow." Foot Note: ("Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219") How about Air Marshall Tedder??? With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal
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  1331. More bullshit XX Corp and 43 wessex went on a walk about and showed up with 4 tanks - FOUR TANKS,but unlike Monty at least they showed up...... then Sat,unlike blisterhead burns the Germans witnessed this and said they could make Arnhem so 1)Monty's fault 2)Carrington,oops LORD Carrington 3)43rd Wessex
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  1332. There was tons of Armor the RAF couldn't see shyt the gerries were in the woods,probably where you and Bernard rendezvous
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  1333. Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 Ya nothing to see here - just a coincidence - move along
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  1334. You poor trampled cabbage leaf Monty was awful at commanding. Terrible. As in, no fooking good. You're sick,tell us again how you come from a family of warriors.ROTF now be a dear and pick up your toy soldiers before mum returns and steps on them.She works so hard ,you know to pay for your therapy and all Why not ask Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 Get help this Holiday Season 🤣
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  1335. Johnny remember IKE placed the The US 9th Army there to make sure there'd be no more Dunkirks,he placed US 1st Army there to make sure there were no more Singapore's.And Freddie was there to make sure Monty and you would not be sharing the bubble bath all clear Johnny
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  1336. You make me larf Little Villa,you clearly blamed the Gavin and the GIs for years, agreeing with TIK to get your boy off the hook .Now when there is push back you change your tune,let's not blame anyone?You have the spine of a gummy bear.Where was Montgomery?The biggest Airborne drop in History where was he?on September 4th he told IKE that opening up the port of Antwerp was part of the plan,yet "The Master" ignored it.He even admitted it - after the war of course.Ramsay,Brooke and Bedell-Smith all pointed wright at him
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  1337. I'll provide it if you quit posting OK little Villa? Would you like Monty quote or Brooke/Ramsay/Bedell-Smith all blaming Bernard? I've done so many times and you gleefully ignore it,then run to another board.Will you quit or not? BTW Why did Horrocks and Vandeleur wait until 2:30 in the afternoon when the planes were flying over to start the column moving,ya fine British tactics right there,did they some how think they were going to catch up to men and materiel dropped?They did take the bridge fool and Graebners 9th drove them off of it,because of the Poof Monty's insistence this debacle go forward with not nearly enough daylight or flights to to land all the necessary men and materiel.The tanks were not not only late they stopped.That's your problem right there - you refer to bounders like Monty as Field Marshall,And Carrington that stopped the advance as Lord.And you want to blame the guys who came 3,500 miles just so slappies like them could go the last 30 ? 🤣
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  1338. Burns you pinhead you left no Volume or book title,so you scribble in what you want and it cant be verified putting your bollocks in italics doesn't make monty or you anything but pitiful .You been busted every day for your delusion - how sad. Monty will see now Lucien,don't even have to make that up
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  1339.  @thevillaaston7811  wrote:How is Antony Beevor supposed to know? He was not even born when the war ended. ------------------------------ Doesn't stop you from popping off now does it,tell us how Mum captured some krauts - that's alway good for a laugh
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  1340. Not this idiot again,the only one not on the road around Eindhoven was the 43rd Wessex and XXX Corps.I think they just arrived. Tell them the war is over and all is forgiven
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  1341. Monty didn't even show and after the war admitted 'A bad mistake on my part". He told IKE the Air marshalls were all on board when in fact they hadn't been consulted. He told the Air marshalls Ike agreed with him and that's an order ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p49 Major General Richard Gale who converted the British Airborne from a small group of Raiders into a conventional parachute brigade in confidence told Major G.G.Norton in the '70s then curator of the Airborne Forces Museum "that he would rather have resigned his command than execute MARKET as it was foisted on Urquhart" .It is unclear if Gale made his views clear to Browning at the time *Eisenhower's Lieutenants p.310 by Russell Weigley*​ "General Browning, whose British Airborne Corps would be located in the 82nds sector...as late as the afternoon of D plus 1 rejected a plan for a strong effort against the Nijmegen rail and highway bridges and instructed the 82nd to concentrate on holding the Groesbeek Heights instead." Sabastian Ritchie - "Monty's water logged summaries tried to hide glarying weaknesses of a hopelessly flawed plan" Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him* saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him .Montgomery’s own staff was opposed to the plan, as was his own chief of staff. With the principal organizations scattered in far-flung locations they never met to coordinate and resolve Market Garden’s obvious flaws or question its contradictions.
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  1342.  @warspite1807  Arnhem: A Tragedy of Errors Hardcoverby Peter Harclerode '21st Army Group was one of the formations that received ULTRA intelligence. The Chief of Intelligence, Brigadier Bill Williams, was sufficiently concerned about the presence of 2nd SS Panzer Corps, and more particularly that of 9th SS Panzer Division north of Arnhem, that he drew it to the attention of Montgomery on 10 September, after the latter's meetings with Dempsey and Eisenhower on that day. He failed, however, to persuade Montgomery to alter his plans for the airborne landings at Arnhem. Undaunted, Williams tried again two days later with the support of Brigadier General Staff (Operations) in Montgomery's headquarters, who was standing in as Chief of Staff in the absence of Major General Francis de Guingand who was on sick leave. Unfortunately, their warnings fell on deaf ears. Three days later a further attempt was made to warn Montgomery. Eisenhower's Chief of Staff', Major General Walter Bedell Smith, received a report from SHAEF's Chief of Intelligence, Major General Kenneth Strong, concerning the presence of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions in the area to the north and east of Arnhem. Bedell Smith immediately brought this information to the attention of Eisenhower and advised him that a second airborne division should be dropped in the Arnhem area. Eisenhower gave the matter urgent consideration but was wary of ordering any changes to the operational plan at the risk of incurring Montgomery's wrath. He decided that any alteration could only be decided upon by Montgomery himself and accordingly sent Bedell Smith and Strong to HQ 21st Army Group at Brussels. At his meeting alone with Montgomery, Bedell Smith voiced his fears about the presence of German armor in the Arnhem area, but was waved aside; indeed, Montgomery belittled the information and dismissed the idea of any alteration to his plan.' How could anyone suppose that Montgomery and his army would suddenly change his spots and become the sort of force capable of conducting a fast,concentrated,mobile thrust into the heart of Germany. The Army Monty claimed he could lead to Berlin was created by him in his own ponderous and ever cautious image
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  1343. Montgomery Memoirs page 267; [quote] “The airborne forces at Arnhem were dropped too far away from the vital objective the bridge. It was some hours before they reached it. I take the blame for this mistake. I should have ordered Second Army and 1 Airborne Corps to arrange that at least one complete Parachute Brigade was dropped quite close to the bridge, so that it could have been captured in a matter of minutes and its defence soundly organized with time to spare. I did not do so” [end quote]* . *Monty says: [quote] “My plan was to drive hard for the Rhine across all these obstacles, and to seize a bridgehead beyond the Rhine before the enemy could reorganise sufficiently to stop us. Clearly Montgomery stated it was his Plan not just an idea.
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  1344. Well Brooke shouldn't agree to have them published then - as he comes across as a petulant child insulting everyone else as his protege Bernard did . This book points out how Churchill wanted to stay in the Med and secure British holdings. When Stalin and FDR wanted to go for the throat. You're really not well read but that's all right I believe the libraries are now open
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  1345. More Monty victims Little Villa is a sick juvenile who has made up other accounts to agree with himself Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 And that bozo FDR let the Brandy adled Winston take all the supplies he could but a red hot stove.Winnie stated Germany 1st then runs 3,000 miles away literally.Then goes to Sicily and Italy.Where Patton grabbed Palermo & Messina,the Clark grabbed Salerno,Naples then Rome. Have your handler look these up for you
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  1346. That was the whole objective you MORON .You can march 90 yds down the field and not score - sounds like you
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  1347. Monty owns it didn't have the cajones to show up like Walter Model or the Airborne units
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  1348. Bernard wasn't there until after hostilities,like showing up after the Funeral The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 281 Montgomery monitored the battle through liaison officers and radio reports. He had neither visited the battlefield at Market Garden nor seen his field commanders; he was having his portrait painted,again and seemed intranced by the experience,boasting that his likeness would "create a tremendous sensation at next year's Academy. Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 292 Despite Montgomery's message to IKE that he thought there was still a "sporting chance" of taking the bridge at Arnhem he must have sensed by then that a terrible disaster was taking place,which would considerably damage his reputation.After all his demands for priority which he received in the north to get across the Rhine,he could not have wanted to face IKE,Patton,Bradley and SHAEFF in Versailles.And could not have been keen to encounter General Bedell-Smith or Strong ,whose fears about German strength in the southern Netherlands Monty had ridiculed.The very next day Monty wrote in his diary "I am very doubtful now if 1st airborne will be able to hold out and we may have to withdraw them". And the fact he never visited Horrocks during the entire battle confirms the impression that he was keeping his distance,a rare event for the "Master" A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively."
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  1349. During the battle can you read have your handler repeat for you And the fact he never visited Horrocks during the entire battle confirms the impression that he was keeping his distance,a rare event for the "Master" Even Carrington showed though he stopped. Ya Empire :face-blue-smiling:
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  1350. I love quizzes What so called Field Marshall didn't cross the 30 Miles of Channel for 4 FULL YEARS . When it only took 16-20 days to leave? The French,Belgians,Dutch,Poles and Czechs would like to know . Burns you're going to have to make up a whole bunch of wonderful new lies or people aren't going to want to go on reading.
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  1351. Burns you chronic bed wetter - your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones. Imagine what this Failed Marshmellow Montgomery would say about IKE if he had lost say 200,000 @ Dunkirk or 81,000 @ Singapore or 25-30,000 @ Tobruk but who the hell has losses like that ?
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  1352. Not at all an unread slappie likes you repeats royal rubbish. Your boys had 4 full yrs to cross the Channel w/o the GI what was the problem? The GIs never got driven driven into the sea - seems your grasping for a lifebuoy
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  1353. ladislas Farago - Patton: Ordeal and Triumph (New York: Astor-Honor, Inc., Inc., 1964), p. 505 'If Manstein was Germany's greatest strategist during World War II, Balck has strong claims to be regarded as our finest field commander. He has a superb grasp of tactics and great qualities of leadership' - Major-General von Mellenthin General Balck commenting on the Lorraine Campaign, said: "Patton was the outstanding tactical genius of World War II. I still consider it a privilege and an unforgettable experience to have had the honor to oppose him" From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt
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  1354. No they didn't you revisionist rube,nothing in their field orders or scouting reports mentioned this .It was only upon arrival they realized troops could be there as Dave mentioned it was on the German border. If Monty was an actual Field Marshall like Walter Model he would have shown up - a failed marsh mellow was more like it
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  1355. your lies have been so badly battered about it belongs next to one of Monty's military plan
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  1356. you're a treasure - I just want to bury you.Sorry Irving Burns this is what happens when bernard was handed command - DISASTER!!! Even good British Officers like O'Connor,Auchinleck,Slim couldn't do much with monty's misadventure .Attempting to shoehorn and sneak a whole column of armor up a 70 mile elevated lane with no room for maneuver against the German Army is the idea of an idiot that shouldn't have been leading a Boy Scout Assembly .So I can see why you like it
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  1357. The amusement continues,Burns why are you acting up in the comment section.Did the ward boy confiscate your magazines? or were you eating the crayons again.Burns you are obviously referring to Monty Garden,that is what happens when a WW1 sargent is put in charge.Repeatedly Big Brother escorted the crown about to give the Red Army the appearence of a strong front.Good thing the Burns family of Warriors were still tossing back some ales and throwing darts back on the Island
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  1358. D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,page 263-264 The slowness of Monty's attack in Normandy was one of Ike's chief concerns.Eisenhower even had spoken to Churchill about it while the battle was in full swing. Air Chief Marshall Tedder and Air Marshall Coningham even discussed the possibility of having Montgomery relieved .Conningham who commanded the Tactical Air Force supporting 21st Army Group,had loathed Montgomery since the North African campaign.He had never been able to forgive Montgomery's compulsion to take all the credit .Now they were infuriated by Mongomery's pretence that his strategy was proceeding according to plan when he had manifestly failed to take the ground needed for airfields. Montgomery's reluctance to incur losses in Normandy has long been a target of criticism. An aversion to risk had become wide spread and opportunities were seldom exploited.The repeated failures to crack the German front around Caen inevitably blunted an aggressive outlook.Increasingly the 2nd Army in Normandy relied on Artillery and Air Power. D-Day,The Battle for Normandy by Antony Beevor,p185 The RAF was furious especially when Montgomery pretended that everything had gone according to plan. ALL air preparations had been calculated on establishing forward airbases for Spitfires and Typhoons with in a few days Now because of the shallow depth of the the beach head,any airfield they built would be well within the range of German Artillery.*There was little room left for fuel depots,supply dumps.repair workshops,base camps,field hospitals and vehicle parks.Almost every orchard and field in the area was crammed. *"The British were so crowded they overflowed in to our area" Bradley later stated a tactical remark concealing his degree of frustration Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb,p 326 Apart from having secured the beachhead,little else Monty was doing was working .No one forgot his promise about how quickly Caen would fall to him - over a month would pass before he took it or how he would advance steadily to places by anything like the dates he predicted Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb,p 331 Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen
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  1359. D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,p 320-21 Field Marshall Brooke flew to France at midday to see Monty. The gulf between the claims he made before the operations began and the reality of the situation revealed after his press conference was becoming a major embarrassment.Journalists thru back at him what they had been told before the offensive.On July 20 Operation Goodwood was called off officially. For the troops who had taken part the situation was a bitter disappointment after all the promises* My Three Years with EisenHower,By Harry C.Butcher "Lack of progress on the British front at Caen has produced BBC coverage that is almost exclusively American.The British Public has become so annoyed at the coverage of events in France that our British hostess switched off the radio while her American Officer guests were listening to the late news" Triumph and Tragedy:The Second World War by Winston Churchill. Winston S Churchill to General Montgomery:"For my own secret information,I should like to know whether the attacks you spoke of to me,or variants of them,*are going to come off* .It certainly seems important to the British Army to strike hard and win through otherwise there will grow comparisons between the two armies that which will lead to dangerous recrimination The Battle of the Generals,by Martin Blumenson,p.122 The British had only advanced 6 miles and taken 2,000 prisoners by July 20th.Their casualties totaled more than 4,000 men and about 500 tanks,more than 1/3 of all the tanks brought to Normandy This is nowhere near the results Montgomery had led everyone to expect The discontent was wide spread many senior Allied leaders felt they had been had,taken by promises Montgomery had no intention of fufilling or had been unable to fufill.Harry Butcher Eisenhower's aide said others were discussing "who would succeed Monty when he was sacked" The Battle of the Generals,by Martin Blumenson,p.122-23 Goodwood damaged Monty's prestige and he never fully recovered.Eisenhower was "disappointed and angered" by the difference between Montgomery's promise and his performance Air Marshall Tedder "redoubled" because Monty had deceived the Air Forces
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  1360. John Peate any time Patton and Monty were on the same track of land Bernard got humiliated and limey lumps like you 8 yrs later try to deny it. Go visit his statue in Caen or Arnhem.... there isn't one. But cross the channel and go to Caen and tell them how great he was. Shouldn't take you 4 yrs like it did him i hope Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb,page 409 There were many reasons why Montgomery was being effectively downgraded once more .Eisenhower had no doubt any longer that his reputation as a battle-winning commander was greatly inflated The experience at Caen,Antwerp,Arnhem and delays in following up the Ardennes assault and the excessively thorough build up for the Rhine crossing provided sufficient evidence for that.General Whitely .*IKE's British Deputy Chief of Operations,said the feeling at Allied HQs "was that if anything was to be done quickly,don't give it to Monty. Monty was the last person that would be chosen to drive on Berlin - he would have needed 6 months to prepare"* Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb,p.331 Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen
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  1361. Burns you would not recognize a fact if one blew up in your face and circled around and bit you in your ample back side. Sorry Johnny the plan failed everywhere much like your personal life
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  1362. How come Field Marshall Walter Model and General Kurt Student were able to ferry tanks and troops across rivers/canals under the ever watchfull RAF,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November ??? (that from a Dutch Poster) It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September after MONTY GARDEN to cross the Rhine. in that time Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine . Try the library and not Burns Big Book of Bollocks.I'm not giving you anymore attention or TIK anymore clicks.More than happy to pound you on other boards though 😍
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  1363. Burnhole,Why do you constantly make false statements about the war and then beg to be proven wrong ? are you still living in the shadow of National Shame for being ejected from the continent like a flea being flicked off a dogs ass ?
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  1364. If America was bad Britain should have stayed home saving countless lives of Canadians/Australians/Irish/Indians/Africaners/ NZers I could go on but the toffey nosed bastards on the Island were still playing crickett and fox hunting
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  1365. Beevor lists his sources.Many here deflect because it's a Monty cheering section that ignores his lies,deception and denegrating .he would have been relieved in the US Army,maybe shot in Russia or Germany
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  1366. Irving Burns that's horseshit leave the link or STFU. The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror.And the Krauts with incredible Joy. How come Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers and canals under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September, not in October and not in November Three miles from the start panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans blocking the road and stopping the column.General Brian Horrocks and Col. Joe Vandeleur waited for the planes to fly over at 1400 hrs on the 17th.Did they somehow think they would catch up to them when their loads were dropped? After stopping just 4 hrs later.Montgomery owns this disaster. He would have been relieved in the US Army,shot in Germany or Russia This is from Montgomery Memoirs Chapter 16 "My PLAN was to drive hard for the Rhine across all obstacles. para 4 I have already explained the direction of the thrust would be towards Arnhem and why. The essential feature of the PLAN was the laying of a carpet of airborne forces across five major water obstacles which existed on the general axis of the main road through Eindhoven to Uden, Grave , Nijmegen and thence to Arnhem" Clearly Montgomery stated it was his Plan not just an idea.How could anyone suppose that Montgomery and his army would suddenly change his spots and become the sort of force capable of conducting a fast,concentrated,mobile thrust into the heart of Germany. The Army Monty claimed he could lead to Berlin was created by him in his own ponderous and ever cautious image
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  1367. john is a bullshit artists he prints drivel hoping some slug as lost as he will believe it nfo and john burns and has never been used together in one sentence. So evidently you are one of his new creations after not using these in a while 😂 Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1368. Or Bernard lathering little lads or as the book calls it The Full Monty
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  1369.  @oldtanker2  great dissertation,Burns is a poor trampled cabbage leaf and he knows it.Great takes,thanx
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  1370. IKE shares the blame for OKing this abortion - he was sucking up too much politically.Asshole plan that monty owns.Even Alan Brooke stated like the rest of SHAEF - open the port of Antwerp 1st
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  1371. Puddles are you afraid someone may eclipse your efforts at doing so.
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  1372. You disturbed egret good to see you haven't moved from this board - great life you loon
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  1373. Only an idiot would try to sneak a whole column of Armor down a 64 mile lane with no where to mauever - so I see why you like it
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  1374. Giovanni Johnny Asston just crawl back into your hole.Another dim bulb..Even if theTanks made Arnhem were they would have been blasted back into the Rhine.Hell it took the rube Monty over 6 more months to reach it again and that was with at one time or another 1st & 9th US Armies.That's how well garrisoned and reactionary theGerries were. Model was an actual Field Marshall not special needs student like Monty and your fictional 5 account .The allies still had to depend on the 499 mile supply line from Cherbourg for heavy supply.That's how important the biggest deep water port in Europe - Antwerp was. As SHAEF directed and ULTRA gave fair warning with intercepted radio dispatches and actual pictures This has been explained to daily since 2013 thicko .No big port - not much supplies.You'd think Monty being British would have factored in the unpredictable weather of the North Atantic and channel.But like you he read coffee table coloring books - get back to that and leave actual discussion to students of history idiot. More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  1375. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan. Monty even admitted - a bad mistake on my part From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed.Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"  From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem
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  1376. Ya bullshit you idiot even the dutch said this route should have never been taken Geronimo is right you have no understanding how military operations work.Even if they somehow made the Bridge.Model and Student were bring in by rail massive resupply of men/materiel.And since Aspergers Boy Monty didn't open the Port supplies had to be lugged 499 miles you idgit,no wonder your crown got its shit shoved in.Whacks like you backing this plan.Model an actual Field Marshall unlike Monty understood this
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  1377. @Johnny Carroll he's been deleting on other boards since realizing the Hindenburg finished in better shape than his posts
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  1378. @Johnny Carroll YUP Burn's been doing it,his schlickt and his psued accounts have been weighed,measured and found wanting
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  1379. your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones. Johnny - which so called empire fought to the last colonial? - ask Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and especially India & the Irish. And get that head wound looked at
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  1380. Johnny stop playing with the Ouija Board when you on the scotch. Bernard will see you in the channel for The Full Monty
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  1381. Burns aren't you getting a little old to be spooning with your Monty inflatable every night? When you are done mopping the Burlesque stop at the Library and have them read to you
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  1382. TIK you've lied once - continuously The 82nd took 5 bridges - two bigger than the Arnhem bridge.And the Frauds of XXX Corp didn't arrive until 3 and half days after the battle started.Yet the same units that destroyed frosts hopes fought the 82nd in armored cars and halftracks with mounted mg42s and 20mm AA guns as they were on foot. YOU ARE A FRAUD, following arses like that is the reason you lost an empire. Read The Full Monty - i believe your mentioned in it
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  1383. Again pay real close attention - getting your ass kicked off the continent does not constitute tactical or strategic brilliance.The torch landings and the Allied Navies & Air Forces sealed Rommels fate that along with ULTRA and the 300 shermans and 100 self propelled 105 howitzers FDR sent.Monty didn't do anything that Auchinlechs plan didn't set the stage for Here I even time stamped it for you to further the massive void in your education.ENJOY!!! https://youtu.be/slscOOoKZwM?t=1580
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  1384. Stiil walking thru the land of make believe.or harken back thru the dim mists of antiquity yes when the crown ran roughshod over Trinidad,Tobago and the Zulus.4 Full years didn't even budge at the English channel,brilliant english manuevers right there
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  1385. Burns Monty would like to see you in the channel - bring the loofah and bubble bath
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  1386. Try reading their bibliography - backed up by history and actual accounts - truth hurts,Monty should never have been appointed - Britain had much better officers
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  1387. .Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan .Two rube's on the same account pleasuring each other wipe Monty's cack out of your eye sockets you carnival barker. Montgomery lost a lot. What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. And then barely... and poorly
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  1388. Burns is barking, stop smoking hippy lettuce,set the bong down and back away from the keyboard.There are treatments on this side of the pond for your condition except the ugly.
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  1389. No he didn't you bullshit artists,Your Pervo said he'd make Berlin and never sniffed Arnhem - IKE gave him everything availible and the British Officers @ SHAEF said open Antwerp 1st - notably Alan Brooke - have your handler read you some history.Monty with the backbone of a gummy bear NEVER showed up on the field of battle .Of course Model was an actual Field Marshall and Monty a dawdling dweeb From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group.IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to the left flank(21st Army) through out the campaign.Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies. IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks,yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks
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  1390. Puddles you're getting carved up like the Christmas Goose - only he had more brains
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  1391. Gavin showed up unlike monty and carrington stopped. But in England that makes you a Field marshall and a LORD. Good God get over your sorry selves.This arse had to take his board down criticizing Beevor probably for libel.Who has more historical accuracy than TIKs family tree. Beevor attended and lectured at Sandhurst and this slappy mumbles to gullible tossers. Who has more historical accuracy than TIKs family tree
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  1392. Who cares what you think, you're wrong again, but hey it's something you're good at.
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  1393. Johnny when you're done smoking that hippy lettuce go find Guards Armoured and the 43rd Wessex they just reached the bridge - tell'em the War's Over
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  1394. More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1395. @Johnny Carroll I've already ran Vile Asston thru with the logistics before but the oozing boil conveniently gets amnesia.There were over 2 less hours sunlight on September 17 than on June 6th there were 700 more flights and not right across the channel into France but up into N.E.Netherlands,so reality exists.Yet crickets on why Walter Model a real Field Marshall was there to direct in person and Bernard was no where around for Monty Garden. Read this book it explains alot From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p46 the shortage of navigators was so acute that only 4 out of 10 C-47 crews used on the D-Day drop included one,usually flying at the head of the serial.The situation didn't improve by September 1944. The key issue was lack of natural illumination, the 1st airlifts into Normandy involved 900 C-47s and gliders .MARKET envisioned doing the same with around 1,600 flights,with inexperienced and partially trained air crews in the total darkness of a no moon period would have been suicidal Williams insistence on a single lift per day and Brereton's acceptance of it may have been less than ideal,but it was the only realistic option in the prevailing circumstances (Because of a shortage of navigators on longer flights with much shorter days) From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p145 the Irish Guards were an hour and 11 miles behind when it's tanks rolled into Valkenswaard main square on the night of the 17th, and Horrocks no movement after dark extended this shorfall to 12 hours at a stroke.It remained to be seen if Guards Armored Division would prove capable of moving the following day with sufficient dispatch to make up at least some of the lost time From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p309 at the North end of the Bridge Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Amored Division to push on immediately for Arnhem just 10 miles up the road.Their elation turned toward anger as the growing British force remained immobile. LT Patrick Murphy from 3rd Battalion,504th Regiment climbed aboard Sg Robinson's tank and urged him to move only to be informed by the willing Robinson that he had no orders to do so. Capt.Burris was reportedly so furious he threatened the deputy commander of no.1 Squadron Capt.Peter (Lord) Carrington with his Thompson gun,Carrington dropped inside the tank and locked the hatch. Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp.General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." Gavin did not have an answer for him The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Compant HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate.yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge.Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points.And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September.Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced - From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line.
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  1396. little villa languishing in his land of make believe Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.198 At the beginning of September 1944 Lt.General Brereton had already warned Eisenhower that it would be very difficult to stage an airborne operation as far east as the Rhine River from bases in the UK (SHAEF in a memorandum) Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.219 "Montgomery went over my head" Air Marshall Conningham recalled after the war. "Month after month he did that; until he had his failure at Arnhem - then they made him listen. He violated all command channels" So Ritchie,Brerton & Connigham are all wrong? 80yrs after the fact? When Monty after the war admitted A bad mistake on my part? And his boss Brooke along with Adml Ramsay also took him to task. But you all these decades later have it sorted on a gamers board? You dullard,petulance isn't an argument and denial isn't a river
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  1397. Absolutely not a British hatched debacle and the host knows it
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  1398. This is from Montgomery Memoirs Chapter 16 "My PLAN was to drive hard for the Rhine across all obstacles. para 4 I have already explained the direction of the thrust would be towards Arnhem and why. The essential feature of the PLAN was the laying of a carpet of airborne forces across five major water obstacles which existed on the general axis of the main road through Eindhoven to Uden, Grave , Nijmegen and thence to Arnhem" Clearly Montgomery stated it was his Plan not just an idea.OH BTW he never showed up to direct as it started coming apart 3 miles from the start as Panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans.Then monty got real scarce and lied to both Brooke and IKE that things were going fine,while he hoped the wouldn't get worse as the did. XXX Corp were behind schedule and the Germans in fact had been refitting in arnhem and Monty stuck hi head in the sand
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  1399.  @bobbest1611  Truth
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  1400. Monty the pathetic show pony that had demanded the debacle then disappeared. All 3 Top Commanders under Monty point right at him Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: "Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine" Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02.General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Sir Francis De Guingand, From Brass Hat to Bowler Hat, p.16 Unfortunately I cannot say that I did support Operation MARKET-GARDEN Montgomery's supposed master stroke; but as I was in the hospital in Aldershot I was powerless to dissuade him. I attempted to, on the telephone; for there were too many ifs in the plan and Prince Bernard was warning, from his intelligence network in Bolland, that German armored units were stationed there However, to my telephone warnings Montgomery merely replied, 'You are too far away Freddie, and don't know what's going on'
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  1401. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan Monty owns this disaster He campaigned for and got it,BTW he never showed up on the front like the Real Field Marshall Model .When your done cleaning your tooth with your finger try flipping the pages of a history book But this is all still on Monty problems arose everywhere that either he or his plans were involved. Monty didn't show up to direct his own operations as it was coming apart rather quickly and by the seams Max Hastings The SECRET WAR, Spies, Ciphers, and Guerrillas 1939 -1945; referring to Field Marshal Montgomery on page 495 “The little British field-marshal’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence, and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944.The same overconfidence was responsible for the launch of the doomed airborne assault in Holland on 17 September, despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, together with Field-Marshal Walter Model’s headquarters at Oosterbeek. Had ‘victory fever’ not blinded Allied commanders, common sense dictated that even drastically depleted SS panzers posed a mortal threat to lightly armed and mostly inexperienced British airborne units. Ultra on 14-15 September also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force 70 miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armor, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. The decision to launch Operation Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  1402. No wonder you neighbor named his dog Monty - he left a bunch of steaming piles everywhere he went,also -Rub-a-dub-dub johnny,Bernard will see you now - bring your loofah More Monty victims Johnny is a sick juvenile who has made up other accounts to agree with himself Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 get off these boards Johnny and into therapy but pick up you plastic army men before you go
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  1403. and do what? wait over 2 days while your boys south of Valkenswaard who made it a whole 7 miles finally join the operation
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  1404. More bullshit from the home The GIs with no help from the BEF held the field with 80,000 casualties and the Gerries retreated.And Monty true to form wanted to retreat,The GIs didn't need anyone's aid after all we're not British - Thank God
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  1405. Johnny what other fantasy nonsense would you like to spew from your land of make believe? The only thing empty is your head. Now please ring the nurses station you are experiencing hallucinations again - MONTY GARDEN
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  1406. No your boys stopped not wanting to get pummeled again - even the Irish Guards admitted it along with the Germans and GIs who witnessed it.If I provide the posts with pages numbers will you stop your lying for the failed marshmellow Monty
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  1407. Oh really and just why should the Poles feel thankful.The USA did a lot more for an ungrateful tossers like you.Than the Crown ever did for them
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  1408. There were Pathfinders captured west of arnhem along with their radios
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  1409. From a letter on exhibit at Wichita KS "Museum of World treasures" Hasso Von Manteuffel 8018 Diessen am ammersee Mariahilfe Strasse 7. Dec. 16. 1976 Dear Mr. Dellingatti; I thank you for your letter, attached you find a photo as you asked for. In my opinion General Patton was a master of lightning warfare and the best commander in this reference! Evidence of his excellent command and control of an army are the campaign in Sicily, the break-out in Brittany 1944 and during the Battle of the Bulge Dec 1944. I agree with Ladislaw Farago first-rate book on Patton "Ordeal and Triumph" - an excellent report! With very good wishes Patton: Ordeal and Triumph, Ladislas Farago (New York: Astor-Honor, Inc., Inc., 1964), p. 505 'If Manstein was Germany's greatest strategist during World War II, Balck has strong claims to be regarded as our finest field commander. He has a superb grasp of tactics and great qualities of leadership' - Major-General von Mellenthin General Balck, commenting on the Lorraine Campaign, said: "Patton was the outstanding tactical genius of World War II. I still consider it a privilege and an unforgettable experience to have had the honor to oppose him"
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  1410. Bullcrap monty started before the last soldier was buried and wrote 6 books on how he won the war.
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  1411. Monty's memoirs are the greatest work of fiction since chaste and fidelity were added to the French marriage vows As Bradley said, Montgomery rarely won a battle any other competent general wouldn't have won as well or better. Historian Norman Gelb researched that Montgomery was not only famously insensitive and deliberately insulting to his brothers in arms, but he was capable of outright lies if he thought it would elevate him above potential rivals Puhleeeze,What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. And then barely.......and poorly.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics.Monty had serious deficiencies in fluid battles, and had limited ability to adjust his methods to changing operational situations. balance,flexibility, cooperation, simplicity and the assimulation of combat lessons.he was vain,rude objectionable - a legend in his own mind Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved.
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  1412. Read read Buckingham's Arnhem,Hasting's Armageddon,September Hope,by McManus,The Guns at Last Light by Atkinson, It Never Snows in September by Kershaw, A Magnificent Disaster,by Bennett - all good efforts and worth the time
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  1413. Irving Burns, Mum will be home shortly so hide your Monster Boobs Magazine - that got embarrassing last time. And try helping with the groceries this time
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  1414. Have the nurses dial back the voltage johnny you're realizing hallucinations. Here you go johnny your illusions of integrity have long ago swirled the drain you troubled tart Freddie de Guingand, Montgomery’s Chief of Staff confided to Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay on 28 November (according to the admiral’s diary) that he was “rather depressed at the state of the war in the west . . . the SHAEF plan had achieved nothing beyond killing and capturing a some Germans, and that we were no nearer to knocking out Germany.” Between the beginning of November and mid-December 1944, British Second Army advanced just ten miles. The Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 321-322 Montgomery's official biographer remarked that Monty's bid for the Ruhr via Arnhem had proved nothing less than foolhardy.Staff officers at his tactical HQ had never seen "the Master" look so quiet and withdrawn.The sacrifice of the 1st airborne had been enough . Market Garden had all but used up the striking power of the 2nd Army and lead it into a blind alley where it could do nothing.Even Field Marshall Brooke has concluded that his strategy had been at fault."Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place",he wrote in his diary.The failure to secure the Scheldt estuary leading to that vital port now stood out as a glaring lapse of judgement. So Johnny 5 authors today plus 5 actual participants blamed your poof bernard
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  1415. Sitting on your ass usually will do that,1,500 miles he never caught rommel with every advantage - BIG advantages as he faffed and made up stories
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  1416. From the Ottawa Citizen,May 7th ,2005 Mr. Major is even less charitable to Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery, who headed up British and Canadian forces. Field Marshall Montgomery's ill-fated thrust deep into occupied Holland in the fall of 1944, a paratroop attack on river crossings, was an utter failure and undertaken at the expense of a broad steady advance. That delayed the the liberation of the country's biggest cities, Mr. Major figures, and condemned their populace to slow starvation through the infamous "Hunger Winter" that took the lives of 20,000 Dutch civilians. Pte. Major had an opportunity to express his displeasure with Field Marshall Monty soon afterward. It was during the battle for Scheldt, an estuary guarding the Belgian port of Antwerp. The exploit was supposed to win him a field decoration directly from the hands of Field Marshall Montgomery, but Pte. Major couldn't bring himself to accept. "He had made an awful mistake. I didn't like him at all." Over to you Little Villa
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  1417.  @nickdanger3802  Nick TIKs been deleting links keeps knocking them down - gosh I wonder why.I'd like an explanation
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  1418.  @nickdanger3802  alright how come other sites haven't deleted them.There has to be some link/device to click to disable that function - just saying . You do the homework unlike the wanker you're addressing
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  1419.  @nickdanger3802  part of Monty's agreement with SHAEF over Market Garden was the understanding that the scheldt estuary would be opened as part of the process
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  1420. Slappy so which one of theses guys who all state the same thing is wrong.Brooke,Tedder,Ramsay?Unlike you they were there Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599 "Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  1421. Glowing tributes,LMAO,by the ill informed,O'Connor,Auchinleck,Slim,Tedder,Ramsey,Conningham,Adml Cunningham - all infinitely better officers than the bragging laggard Arnhem.Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333. Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes: 'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ From Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle. "There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was." The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed.We knew what even a handful of Germans could do - they were so damned efficient. As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.” Das Deutsches Afrika-korps: Siege und Niederlage. By Hanns-Gert von Esebeck, page 188 ​Returning from North Africa with an inflated ego after the comparatively easy defeat of the German Africa Corps, he considered himself to be the greatest commander ever. Later information has revealed that he inflated the number of German casualties to improve his image. At El Alamein he claimed that there were more German casualties than there were German troops all together on the actual front!
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  1422. Per usual Vile sourcing his ample backside.he was given the inside road - Highway 124 by his Mate Alexander.Patton still out commanded and Generaled Bernard grabbing Palermo and Messina.Not a big deal really Slim or O'Connor it might have been another story
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  1423. Um No Monty was suppose to capture messina, and block the straight but as is well known after Palermo Patton had to take Messina also From The Battle of the Generals,by Martin Blumenson,p.61 "on the northern shore of Sicily,Patton drove his units to Messina, They reached the city several hours before the British appeared on the scene .Patton proved their merit and excellent ability in combat. From The Battle of the Generals,by Martin Blumenson,p 62-63*​ Montgomery's 8th Army crossed the Straight of Messina from Sicliy to the Italian toe,then made slow progress in the mountainous terrain.A British Division was ferried to the heel,where Italians helped the soldiers disembark.Clark's 5th U.S. Army assaulted the beaches around Salerno. The Germans massed against Clark and came close to driving his men from the shore .As the battle raged 2 conditions quite apart from the combat infuriated Clark. -First instead of hurrying up the Italian boot to help Clark,Montgomery seemed to dawdle in the toe,making at best a leisurely advance,pausing from time to time to rest and reorganise his troops. - Second,a public relations office in Alexanders headquarters,which issued periodic advisories to guide news paper coorespondents called for them to "play up" Montgomery. A letter from Montgomery several days later hardly improved Clark's disposition. "it looks as if you may be having not too good a time," Monty had written, "and I do hope that all will go well with you.We are on the way to lend a hand".Clark replied in sarcastic fashion "it will be a pleasure to see you again at an early date" and then added "please accept my appreciation for your assistance by your skillful and rapid advance". But then Clark added "situation here well in hand" Clark's army won his battle at Salerno and opened up the toe for Montgomery .As the Germans withdrew slowly to the North so in Italy the 47 yr old Mark Clark took Salerno,Naples & Rome and Monty lost Palermo/Messina to Patton in Sicily. See what happens when he wasn't given preference even though Alexander gave him the inside roads in Sicily
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  1424. Monty faffed Sicily and Italy and it continued into Normandy. You could have won.IKE and British Officers like Tedder and Connigham actually thought of removing him quit fudging facts - he was terrible.He'd repeat orders twice I'm reading them - TWICE.Then when somehting would fail as they did he'd throw some unfortunate jr officer under the bus
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  1425. Go away kid your British and obviously being nationalistic Patton schooled your hero on Sicily and the anemic Mark Clark even out performed the proven berk in italy.Neither of those men got driven off off the continent or waited 4 yrs to come back but had to come 3,500 miles to escort the plodding Monty across.Tell your stories to Europe who saw those backsides beating it up the gangplanks at Dunkirk having to cover the retreat.Your PM emphatically begged and cajoled the POTUS to get involved in fact stated when asked how he planned to win the war - "I shall drag in the United States".Since you obviously don't go to the Library here's what you'll find if you did All these men were there From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 254 In terms of the Anglo-American divide the Sicilian episode demonstrated that antagonism was not confined to American officers. Montgomery's behavior made enemies of Admiral Cunningham and Air Marshall Tedder as well as their staffs.The much vaunted rivalry between Patton and Montgomery was minor compared to the depths hostility that had developed with the Royal Air Force*Tedder told Patton that Monty was "a little fellow of average ability who has had such a build up that he thinks of himself as Napoleon - he is not" Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 319 Montgomery's irrational behavior at the Falaise Gap was also influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman..." Yet with the notable exception of the allies decisive November 1942 victory at El Alamein,where air cover and naval blockade of German supplies,plus ULTRA weighed heavily - the battlefield records of the “combat experienced” British commanders prior to mid-1944 featured little to brag about From With Prejudice, Air Marshall Tedder,p.586 Eisenhower's firm commitment to the Anglo-American Alliance dominated his thinking. He handled Allied disagreements in Normandy, at the Falaise Gap and for Market-Garden the same way. Eisenhower was determined to protect the facade of Allied unity at the highest levels of the Allied command in spite of Montgomery's insubordination which was motivated by both personal and political objectives. Eisenhower's efforts to cover up Montgomery's lies in Normandy drew praise from his British second in command, Lord Tedder: "One of the most disturbing features of the campaign ... had been the uninhibited boosting at home (England) of the British Army at the expense of the Americans. I ... fear that this process was sowing the seeds of a grave split between the Allies. For the moment, the Americans were being extremely reticent and generous, largely on account of Eisenhower's fine attitude." The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61 "Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us.He could have done it with out any danger to himself.Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed" Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page320 The poor performance of the British 2nd Army in Normandy had tied Monty's hands. He did not expect the Germans to be that good. But when the Americans broke the German lines at St Lo instead of turning the Americans loose on the open German flank,Montgomery stopped the Americans at Argentan and sent them North east to Paris-orleans gap.There were simply too many bitter pills on Montgomery's desk. From Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb,p 438 Montgomery had served the Allied cause well during the Battle of the Bulge.But his egotism and irrepressible tactlessness did neither himself or Allied unity any good at a critical moment when important decisions affecting both him and it were about to be made.The military attache' at the American Embassy in London reported back to Washington "I have the strong impression that most British Officers,including many in the influential War Office are much less enthusiastic over Montgomery than is the British Public*. *Lord Ismay in the House of Commons expressed the wish that someone would "muzzle" or better still chloroform Monty. "I have come to the conclusion that his love of publicity is a disease,like alcoholism or taking drugs and that it sends him equally mad."
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  1426. Your half right Monty was a lying knob the Tommies are Ok ,we'll just disagree
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  1427. Percival, Wavell, Ritchie yes but The Auk got screwed - by chance did you watch Tim Collins in the Desert Generals?Good soldier and historian said Monty took the same amount of time that Claude and Dorman Smith wanted.On YT they have an interview with Auchinlech from 1974 - in his 90s very sharp and a real gentleman
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  1428.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  Here i time stamped it,hopefully not deleted https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1580
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  1429. I'm reading Decision in Normandy great book i recommend it and Winnie was not happy about Caen.You're going to have setbacks but evidently he wasn't coordinating efforts between units or keeping others in the loop in regards to intentions.And the PM stated take Caen or else and this was on July 18th
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  1430.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  perhaps I'm 300 + pages in if i see any i'll post them.From what I'm reading Pip Roberts was a very good field commander.And Dempsey over him was pretty good.Communication, ,understanding, and timing seem to be a Problem
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  1431. In Eisenhowers unpublished transcripts at the Presidential library "....after we were ashore in Normandy we had not been achieving the advances that Monty that had earlier predicted on his maps. Mr Churchill expressed unhappiness at the lack of progress and the failure to capture Caen.Churchill came to see me one day accompanied by General Brooke.He pointed out the pre-invasion briefings and the seizure of Caen within 24 hrs had been assumed. The failure after fighting to take this key city strengthened his fear that we were descending into bitter WW1 "trench-warfare" IKE reassured the PM that matters were not so gloomy. "I emphasized we were successfully pursuing our basic puposes and saw no reason for pessimism" Never the less IKE told the PM "operations had not turned out as planned, it looked now the break out would be made thru the difficult "Bocage" country in the west.I emphasized my confidence that all would turn out well"
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  1432.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  you have to read this Book.Way too much for me to jot down.There are so many individual officers at the meetings that had the pre invasion plans and statements of Monty's briefing's all of them mentioned that Caen's capture was at most a D-Day + 2 assignment.For instance they print Dempsey's actual papers that were passed out at these meetings .Monty' was notorious for getting shall we say "creative" with history much to his own detriment.Later on he gave only verbal orders because many times what he had previously written had come back to haunt him.Much of that from the Desert War
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  1433. Sorry churchill almost removed him for not only being ineffective but not reporting events accurately to cover up his mistakes and lack of accomplishments D-Day,The Battle for Normandy by Antony Beevor,p183-84 Any thought of pivoting on Caen as Montgomery had claimed,had become impossible in the 1st few days a pattern of attrition had been established. Monty had to change his approach,although he refused to admit this later.On June 11 after a meeting with Bradley Monty wrote DeGuingand that his objective "was to pull the germans on to 2nd Army so that the US 1st Army could extend & expand. this rather more modest assessment was hardly in keeping with his earlier pugnacious declarations! Inaction and a defensive mentality are criminal in any officer - however Senior He had told this to senior Officers 2 months before the invasion and "Every officer & man must be enthusiastic for the fight and have the light of battle in his eyes The problem was that Montgomery partly for reasons of morale partly for pride could not admit that any of his plans had gone wrong. He created resentment among his colleages by claiming that he always intended to pull the bulk of the Panzer Divisions on to his front,to give the Americans the great chance of a break out. ​ D-Day,The Battle for Normandy by Antony Beevor,p195 There had been mutterings about the uselessness of British Tanks before the Invasion.Colonel Lord Cranley was obliged to address the men on the subject.he was quite aware of of the faults in out tanks "but,it's no good grousing as we would get no others so we make the best of things".The diary of a Britsh officer in Hinde's brigade read on Sunday june 11 "the squadron left to try to take a position and had to return rapidly losing 4 tanks. After 4 years of preparation for the invasion why are our tanks so inferior" D-Day,The Battle for Normandy by Antony Beevor,p229 Eisenhower was fuming with impatience,yet Monty refused to be hurried and 21st Army HQ provided SHAEF with little information.Montgomery had mentioned to Dempsey on quite a few occasions "there's no need to tell IKE". Monty liked to keep objectives vague,often with metaphors,so if there was a breakout he could claim credit for it and if the operation ran into the sand he could say that they had simply been tying down the German forces to help out the Americans From D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,page 234-35 Eisenhower's frustration with Montgomery is not hard to understand.The confident messages had been sending out about a "showdown" simply did not tally with the truth. From D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,page 263-264 The slowness of Monty's attack in Normandy was one of Ike's chief concerns.Eisenhower even had spoken to Churchill about it while the battle was in full swing. Air Chief Marshall Tedder and Air Marshall Coningham even discussed the possibility of having Montgomery relieved .Conningham who commanded the Tactical Air Force supporting 21st Army Group,had loathed Montgomery since the North African campaign.He had never been able to forgive Montgomery's compulsion to take all the credit .Now they were infuriated by Mongomery's pretence that his strategy was proceeding according to plan when he had manifestly failed to take the ground needed for airfields.
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  1434. From D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,p 306 On July 14th Montgomery wrote to Field marshall Alan Brooke saying that "the time has come to have a real Showdown on the eastern flank". Then the very next day he gave Dempsey and O'Connor a revised directive.This was more modest in it's objectives.He wanted to advance only a 3rd of the way to Falaise and then see how things stood.This may have well been more realistic assessment of what was possible, yet Monty never told Eisenhower and he never informed his own 21st Army HQ. The consequences would be disasterous for Montgomery's reputation and credibility From D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,p 319 - at 1600 hrs Monty signaled Field Marshall Brooke operations this morning a complete success the effect of the bombing decisive and the spectacle terrific.......situation very promising and it is difficult to see what the enemy can do at the present Few enemy tanks met so far and no,repeat no mines" He went on to claim quite erroneously that the 11th armored had reached Tilly-la-Campagne,and that the Guars Armored had taken Vimont .It was one thing to to have mislead Brooke,but he had issued a similar commonuque to the BBC and gave a press conference .One of Montgomery's Brigadiers he talked to the assembled journalists "like children".This was to produce a bitter backlash. TheBritish lost nearly 200 tanks that day.Fortunately there were 500 in reserve From D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,p 320-21 Gen.Eberbach was concerned by the gap between Troarn and Emieville'.Luckily for him the British had not spotted."The enmy needed only to march in that direction then there would have been a breakthrough" Once the darkness had fell according to Eberbach,"the British continued to stay immobile,as if a miricale had happened" Field Marshall Brooke flew to France at midday,when he saw Monty after lunch he "found him in grand form and delighted with his success east of Caen".Perhaps Monty was putting on a brave front.The gulf between the claims he made before the operations began and the reality of the situation revealed after his press conference was becoming a major embarrassment.Journalists thru back at him what they had been told before the offensive. On July 20 Operation Goodwood was called off officially. For the troops who had taken part the situation was a bitter disappointment after all the promises
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  1435. Overlord, by Max Hastings,page 236 Monty announced during the Caen offensive that he was well pleased with the results.He wired Brooke in London "operations a complete success...he told the press his Armies had broken through the German front.Headlines the next day reflected Montgomery's enthusiasm for the battle:"Second Army breaks through...British Army in full cry...Wide corridor through German front...." From Churchill and Montgomery Myth,by R.W.Thompson,page 170 None of it was true - when it became obvious a few days later,the news papers were scurrying to correct themselves.Montgomery's exaggerations did not surprise experienced British Journalists;he had destroyed the German 90th Division so many times in N.Africa it had become a joke Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb,Page 325 Monty was dismayed that others seemed to have forgotten the plan he maintained he had set out with absolute clarity prior to the invasion for all those concerned to understand.According to that plan he would draw the main enemy forces onto his sector of the allied line while Bradley's Americans on his right would secure the peninsula before making the break out. *Not all of Montgomery's growing band of critics at SHAEF remembered it that way.He later claimed his critics completely misunderstood his plan*.
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  1436. @Answer Questions stop it I come from a family of warriors
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  1437.  @derekhooker7086  I hated Monty after reading many of Britain's finest Historians.He planned Dieppe,yet denied it later .Everytime something he planned went wrong he'd throw you,me and anyone else under the bus .Read Armageddon By Max hastings or Ardennes by Antony Beevor.Monty was an unmitigated unapologetic FAFFER in the true sense of the word .Here are some great Historians on the Desert War.Don't take this poor trampled cabbage leaf Burn's word for anything *https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1580*
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  1438.  @derekhooker7086  Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 319 Montgomery's irrational behavior at the Falaise Gap was also influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman..."
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  1439. VA knows damn well that Monty planned and poorly it might be added Market Garden From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem"
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  1440. The Empire had good soldiers,The allies probably would have won quicker w/o Monty because he started to believe his own BS.It was his insistance that IKE give allied(American really)supplies.Monty got shown uo both in Sicily & Normandy and was getting popped in the press.Ike however was a good deal smarter than Monty and the media.Monty was set piece WWI commander never comprehending modern mobile warfare.Simmons and Crerar were good Generals but monty took a shot at Crerar also
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  1441.  @derekhooker7086  yes he was and people like to blame him,he may have screwed up but certainly not any worse than Lord Carrington,Gen Horrocks,Roy Urquhart or Monty for hatching this debacle.And IKE should have known by this time,it was really the last time he listened to the yapping jackel.IKE should have stuck to the broad front attacks,so he shares in the blame.The Airborne units fought admirably/valiently
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  1442. BURNS - Monty planned dieppe and when you clean his cack out of your nationalistic eye sockets then you may use the address bar in front of your face to relieve me from furthering your education.Burns has been pissing on the honor of the GIs for years and the last couple of years,he's been demolished with facts .Here is some of your troubleed tarts handiwork Overlord,by Max Hastings,page 236 Monty announced during the Caen offensive that he was well pleased with the results.He wired Brooke in London "operations a complete success...he told the press his Armies had broken through the German front.Headlines the next day reflected Montgomery's enthusiasm for the battle:"Second Army breaks through...British Army in full cry...Wide corridor through German front...." From Churchill and Montgomery Myth,by R.W.Thompson,page 170 None of it was true - when it became obvious a few days later,the news papers were scurrying to correct themselves.Montgomery's exaggerations did not surprise experienced British Journalists;he had destroyed the German 90th Division so many times in N.Africa it had become a joke Again,The pinhead blasted his last chance to be relevant .It Took 6 months - 6 months for the Rube to cross a river after his 1st attempt.The US wet nursed the failure Montgomery by continually lend him the 1st and 9th Armies and he was still the last to cross the Rhine - just like the channel but that took 4 years.Guess that's military accomplishment in London - no where else.He also blamed the canadians for being slow opening Antwerp.When in fact he had never explicitly ordered them until after his debacle At Market garden.Why don't you Burns read my post from Historians that are acclaimed
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  1443.  @johnburns4017  You wouldn't recognize a fact if one blew up in your face and circled around and bit you in your ample backside Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 317 Montgomery got along with neither the Americans nor the Canadians.After Dunkirk the French absolutely refused to serve under a British commander Such widespread mistrust of the little British General did not bode well for future Allied operations in which Monty played a role.
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  1444. The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror.And the Krauts with incredible Joy Horrocks was behind and he knew it and Roy Urquhart got stuck in an attic in OOsterbeek for a day and missed contact with his troops for two - you moron *https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml * At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. Proof this is a bad plan... the first obstacle each force in this plan had was the very plan itself. XXX Corps stuck going up one road, asking for ambush and serious delays (both occurred) Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow .By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road. From Six Armies in Normandy,by John Keegan In just 30 days, Patton finished his sweep across France and neared Germany. The Third Army had exhausted its fuel supplies and ground to a halt near the border in early September.Allied supplies had been redirected northward for the normally cautious General Montgomery’s reckless Market Garden gambit. That proved a horrible scheme to leapfrog over the bridges of the Rhine River; it devoured Allied blood and treasure, and accomplished almost nothing in return Meanwhile, the cutoff of Patton’s supplies would prove disastrous Scattered and fleeing German forces regrouped. Their resistance stiffened as the weather grew worse and as shortened supply lines began to favor the defense.
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  1445.  @derekhooker7086  Here is another fine British Historian with a PHD who will tell you how bad Monty's Market Garden Plan was *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amo1f1_Hvho*.Very telling and take your time he is very detailed unlike Burns who is strolling thru the land of make believe
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  1446. He planned the whole damn thing thendenied he had anything to do with it
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  1447. DH you're absolutely right
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  1448. Here Burns,From perhaps the most learned man on the subject.He was a professor at the Royal Military Acadamy at Sandhurst where he trained British Officers for 26 years.He was also lectured at Princeton and you mop puddles at the Adult Theater The Second World War by John Keegan,page 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable,since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary.
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  1449. I should be charging for this,have the ward boy bust that boil between your ears,LMAO Burns The United States Army,Bedell-Smith,ULTRA,a Pulitzer Prize Winner and even Monty say you are full of shit AGAIN Burns Center of Military History United States Army The European Theater of Operations THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN by Charles B. MacDonald Page122 By 10 September, the day when General Eisenhower approved the operation, the British had remarked that "Dutch Resistance sources report that battered panzer formations have been sent to Holland to refit, and mention Eindhoven and Nijmegen as the reception areas." 9 A few days later the SHAEF G-2 announced that these panzer formations were the 9th SS Panzer Division and presumably the 10th SS Panzer Division. Page 143The 9th SS Panzer was the stronger with 1 armored infantry regiment, 1 artillery battalion, 2 assault gun batteries, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 1 company of Panther (Mark V) tanks, and increments Of engineers and antiaircraft troops. The 10th SS Panzer probably had 1 armored infantry regiment, 2 artillery battalions, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 1 engineer battalion, and 1 anti aircraft battalion. Page 156The possibility of counterattack from this direction took on added credence from the Dutch resistance reports of panzer formations assembling in the Netherlands. The 82d Airborne Division was led to believe that this armor was concentrating in the Reichswald. This information became "a major and pressing element in the predrop picture of German forces From Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th &10th* Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact.Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" Retreat to the Reich from Stackpole Military History Series and gives an account of how many Panther Tanks both the 9th and 10th SS had just before Market-Garden:7 Sept,1944 Page 243 The 9th SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen, which was commanded by 31 year old Lieutenant Colonel Walter Harzer, had 3,500 men,five tanks plus assualt guns The 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg, which was led by 38 year old SS Brigadefuehrer Heinz Harmel, had 6,000 men,20 Panther Tanks, 40 armored personal carriers, and several guns (both flak and howitzers) That's 25 tanks and 40 APC with 20mms mounted with Flak & Howitzers on Sept 7th as ULTRA reported History of War .Org Reports by Dutch resistance & aerial photos indicated armored formations. Maj.Brian Urquhart Chief of Intel.British 1st Airborne Corp commented - "There,in the photos,I could clearly see tanks,if not on the very Arnhem landing & drop zones then certainly close to them" .He became convinced that the plan was critically flawed, and attempted to persuade his superiors to modify or abort their plans in light of crucial information obtained from aerial reconnaissance and the resistance.Major Urquhart was visited by a Medical officer whom suggested he take some sick leave. - From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here,Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth.
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  1450.  @derekhooker7086  wrote Big Woody I’m sure it would take a lifetime to go through all the ultra documents but that would be amazing to go through those documents. Are you on my side of the pond ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Max Hastings was one of the 1st Author/Journalists to go thru ULTRA dispatches when it was de-classified.I'm in Ohio
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  1451.  @johnburns4017  references were given.Brooke,Ramsey,Tedder all British blamed Monty.Bedell-Smith,ULTRA and Brian Urquhart who became under Secretary of the UN all said Monty ignored every one in his last pitiful grasp for glory. Here's Monty's sodiers,I've printed these over 1 hundred times you troll Arnhem,Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945 .By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes:'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, Monty degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker.With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British*1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ * From Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle.There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said "Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem" Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.”
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  1452.  @derekhooker7086  did you read what pathetic bullshit this asshole writes.He gets blasted and runs to another thread - real slander.I leave direct quotes from Hisrorians/Authors and he pulls opinions out of his rather robust and disgusting backside British author of Military History, Max Hastings, states the following in his recent book, The SECRET WAR, Spies, Ciphers, and Guerrillas 1939 -1945; referring to Field Marshal Montgomery on page 495 “The little British field-marshal’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence, and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944.The same overconfidence was responsible for the launch of the doomed airborne assault in Holland on 17 September, despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, together with Field-Marshal Walter Model’s headquarters at Oosterbeek. Had ‘victory fever’ not blinded Allied commanders, common sense dictated that even drastically depleted SS panzers posed a mortal threat to lightly armed and mostly inexperienced British airborne units. Ultra on 14-15 September also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force over 60 miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armour, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. *The decision to launch Operation Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation
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  1453. Look here Field Marshall Alan Brooke blamed Monty as did and Admiral Ramsey and an Air Marshall Tedder From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding"a bad mistake on my part" From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly,that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place.Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."*
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  1454.  @derekhooker7086  Monty arranged the plan for the Ground troops Mountbatten for the Navy.Monty as he always did changed the story in his many mongoloid memoirs .Watch that desert generals docu
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  1455. AGAIN Burns from the BBC,Everything you write is certifiable bullshit everything,About antwerp and XXX Corp https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. Even the germans knew XXX Corp tanks were slow From 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war, *why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further*The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself.'Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'It was a lost chance: 'The Allied infantry were too late supporting their tanks'- From "It Never Snows in September" page 307 Robert Kershaw. Market-Garden was condemned therefore,to move in the Allies favor only at XXX Corps laborious pace through the airborne corridor.Progress was made difficult and the road cut on at least 2 occasions by the sudden deployment of newly arrived German Panzer & infantry forces. The United States Army Center of Military History,The United States Army,The Sigrfied Line CampaignPage174 Spearheading the 30 Corps ground column reconnaissance troops of the Guards Armoured Division linked with Colonel Tucker's 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 the morning of D plus 2, 19 September. (See Map IV) Major formations of the British armor were not far behind. From that point priority of objectives within the sector of the 82d Airborne Division shifted unquestionably in the direction of the bridge at Nijmegen. Already at least thirty-three hours behind schedule because of earlier delays south of Eindhoven and at Zon the ground column had to have a way to get across the Waal Pages 184-185 First Attempts To Drive on ArnhemCounting from the time of first contact between the British ground column and the 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 on D plus 2, 19 September, until the Nijmegen bridge was taken at 1910 on D plus 3, 20 September, a case could be made to show that the ground column was delayed at Nijmegen for almost thirty-five hours Yet this would be to ignore the facts that first arrivals of the ground column represented no more than a forward reconnaissance screen and that several hours elapsed before sizable British units began to arrive. Indeed, almost another twenty-four hours would elapse after capture of the Nijmegen bridge before the British would renew the drive on Arnhem
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  1456. There you go BURNS Monty and Student(along with Browning and Brererton) blaming the slowness of the XXX Corp advance - but it was still Monty's fault as Allied HQ reasoned From Market Garden Reconsidered There are many factors that can be cited for the failure of Operation Market Garden, all deserving of consideration:The report by OB West blamed the decision to spread the airborne drop over more than one day as the main reason for the failure. The Luftwaffe agreed and added that the airborne landings had been spread too thinly and too far from the Allied frontline. General Student thought the airborne landings were a great success and blamed the failure on the slow progress of XXX Corps In this respect, Generalfeldmarschall Model deserves credit for the skill with which he used the sparse resources available to him, particularly given the state Fifteenth Army was in at the time, and for recognising the importance of the Nijmegen bridges. Lt General Brereton reported to Washington that Market had been a brilliant success but had been let down by Garden, with which Bradley in part agreed, blaming Montgomery and the slow advance by the British between Nijmegen and Arnhem Major General Urquhart blamed the fact that the drop zones for 1st Airborne were too far from the bridge and rather unfairly, his own actions on the first day Lt General Browning's report blamed XXX Corps' underestimation of the strength of the German forces in the area,the slowness with which it moved up the highway the weather, his own communications staff and 2nd Tactical Air Force for failing to provide adequate air support. He also managed to get General Sosabowski dismissed from his command for his increasingly hostile attitude. Field Marshal Montgomery blamed the slowness of XXX Corps in general and O'Connor in particular. Later, he partially blamed himself There is also the matter of allowing the German Fifteenth Army to escape into northern Holland where it could defend the approaches to Arnhem by not clearing the Scheldt estuary, the nature of the highway along which XXX Corps had to advance (a two tank front), the failure to appreciate the unpredictability of the British weather in September, the critical requirement of good communications, which at that point in history was unlikely given the level of technology available and the blatant ignoring of intelligence (from both the Dutch resistance and reconnaissance flights) that armoured units had moved into the Arnhem area Sosabowski in particular feared a flexible, speedy, and strong response, saying, The British are not only grossly underestimating German strength in the Arnhem area, but they seem ignorant of the significance Arnhem has for the Fatherland
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  1457.  @derekhooker7086  wrote John Burns I don’t disagree with your assessment on the 82nd not taking the bridge. --------------------------------------------------------- Burns is a pathetic pud,he's envious or hates the USA.He can't get over the fact of Dunkirk and Singapore,like Monty he blames everyone else except the English - for the English debacle.The 82nd airborne did attack the bridge and were driven off by APCs with MG-42s and 20mm self propelled AA Guns.Paras with M-1s and Thompsons aren't doing much with out the Artillary that hadn't been dropped yet.Unfortunately there were airdrops up on the Groesbeek Heights for 3 straight days that were attacked many times - you loose supplies - you are done.Ask 1st Airborne
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  1458. Pierre Puddles Pulling more nonsense out of your ample backside .At least you are remembering to sign out of one account before popping of in another.Thank your hander at the home for me John Burns babbled On the US entering WW2, it was about the British defending the USA and teaching them how to wage war. --------------------------------------------------------------------- LMAO keep posting even your bunkmates at the home don't believe that.Let's see 1776,1812 Dunkirk and Singapore say hello.Brilliant British defense - said no one ever .It was a case study at West Point at what not to do in battle.You're dive into delusion is deep even for you.Have them dial back the voltage on your Electro-shock therapy.If Monty could show the GIs to back peddle and Percivall how to stick our hands up - we'd be grateful.SMDH.Churchill was to the point of practically blowing FDR for men and material and was even in the White House when Tobruk in Libya fell.And by the time the Tub left Washintgon he took everything he could but a red hot stove.Again no serious sources except for the land of make believ you cavort in. https://anzacday.org.au/ww2-1942-an-overview-of-the-battle-for-australia The USA was fighting for Australia/NZ because obviously Britannia wasn't ruling the waves The arrival of the Americans By the end of March 1942, there was a line of Japanese-held territory directly to the north of Australia, stretching from Rabaul to Singapore. The Japanese had conquered their Asian/Pacific empire. Australians believed it was only a matter of time before Australia too was invaded. Just after the defeat in Malaya, Australia’s Prime Minister, John Curtin, declared that “the fall of Singapore opens the Battle for Australia.” Curtin was aware that Great Britain, herself facing a huge challenge from Germany in Europe and North Africa, could do little to help Australia. Already at the end of 1941, Curtin indicated that Australia would have to seek a new ally to help defend its shores – the United States. On 22 December 1941, the first American soldiers arrived in Brisbane. In February 1942, the American President, Franklin Roosevelt, decided to make Australia the main American base in the south-west Pacific. American and Australian forces would launch the fight back against Japan from Australia. Roosevelt ordered General Douglas MacArthur, the US commander in the Philippines, to proceed to Melbourne and there to take command of all allied forces in the area. Throughout 1942, Australia began providing camps, airfields and a whole range of other materials for the increasing number of American service personnel arriving in the country. See there you pathetic prat.The Aussies fought for the crown and that's how they got paid back .As I told your other sock account the English have a way of using colonials as their sandbags – ask Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and especially the Irish .No Worries though the Emerging World Power picked up the tab and wouldn't throw ANZACs under the Bus like London did
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  1459. Pierre Burns this just keeps getting easier an easier.Your novels are swirling the drain whistle britches https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/lend-lease-act-1 Churchill warned Roosevelt that his country would not be able to pay cash for military supplies or shipping much longer Want more - of course you do .Pay attention there will be a test on this .Just joking I wouldn't do that to the disadvataged https://www.historians.org/about-aha-and-membership/aha-history-and-archives/gi-roundtable-series/pamphlets/em-13-how-shall-lend-lease-accounts-be-settled-(1945)/how-muc Why couldn’t Britain pay?Just exactly what was Britain’s ability to keep on with cash payments in December 1940? She had entered the war in September 1939 with about 4.5 billion dollars of gold and investments in securities in the United States. Most of these belonged to private British citizens and British companies. During the first year of the war the British government had bought these holdings from its citizens, paying for them in British government bonds. Then it sold the securities and gold reserves for dollars, and pooled the whole amount in one fund. This process produced a supply of dollars on this side with which Britain could purchase war goods in the United States. From September 1939 to the end of 1940 the British managed to realize some 2 billion dollars—in addition to the 4.5 billion dollars mentioned above—from sales of gold newly mined in the British Empire, from exports, and other sources.But this additional amount had been spent in 1940 for war purchases,chiefly in the United States Thus, by December 1940, the British supply of dollars was down to about 2 billion. About 1.5 billion of this would be needed to pay for munitions and supplies already ordered in the United States but not yet delivered. So low was Britain’s dollar reserve that new orders for war goods had almost stopped at the time when she needed them most. The job placed before Congress was to provide the country with a law that would meet the situation in spirit and in fact. It required an epoch-making decision on policy and the setting up of machinery to provide the needed help in ships, planes, tanks, guns, food, and other supplies.
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  1460. Oh dear Puddles it appears your novels have been vanquished .Here's some more goodies from a Pulitzer Prize Winner.Unlike you who just pulls it From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.633 What Churchill called the American "prodigy of organization" had shipped 18 million tons of war supplies to Europe equivalent to the cargo in 3,600 Liberty Ships oe 181,000 rail cars from 800,000 military vehicles to footwear.U.S munitions plants had turned out 40 Billion small arms ammunition,56 million grenades,500 million machine gun bullets & 23 million artillary rounds .By 1945 the USA had built 2/3rds of all ships afloat and was making half of all manufactured goods in the world including half of all armaments.The enemy was crushed by logistical brilliance,yet the War absorbed barely 1/3rd of American gross domestic product. From a fine Brit with a PHD Dr. Niall Barr is Professor of Military History and Deputy Dean of Academic Studies in the Defence Studies Department From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 116 Britain's war effort even after just one year of conflict - had placed an intolerable burden upon her finances and her future was now in the hands of The United States of America. Without American aid and assistance above and beyond the commercial basis of"cash and carry",Britain would not be able to continue the War
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  1461. Burns...I mean Pierre - I'm getting tired of this can you just admit you're an idiot
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  1462. Burns you resemble a one legged man in an ass kicking contest and have gotten beat like a dusty rug,Run a long and mop the Burlesque,get some excersize - it's a double feature
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  1463. Well Bazooka Joe as good as the the 82nd is even they couldn't cover for the laggards in 21 st Army but at least they kept the Pedo Monty from ending up in the water again.That has to count for something,Right?
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  1464. BTW babbling Burns it's 80 yrs starting this week that Monty led one of the largest retreats in Military History @ Dunkirk.It's also 75 years ago this week for Victory in Europe.See what a Super Power can do in just 5 yrs.Even correcting all the damage done by the crumbling crown and it's rancid runt got themselves into - You're welcome Giovanni Burns
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  1465. Marshall Never planned on a '42 invasion,43 at the earliest .As the Wehrmacht was a far cry from having the atlantic wall shored up.The folly lied in Churchill wanting to 2,000 miles out of the way up the Itallian boot in the Mediteranean rather than go over a 30 mile wide channel.Allied soldiers had taken the Po Valley in northern Italy from German forces in Italy on may 1945.That didn't include traversing the Alps Marshall proved less sure-footed in his approach to the most important strategic choice facing the United States in World War II: when and where to employ American forces on a large scale. Marshall’s support of a Germany-first strategic priority was on the mark, but his advocacy of an Anglo-American invasion of France in 1943 put him on shaky ground. Until American forces had gained more experience against the Wehrmacht, until command of the Atlantic was achieved in mid-1943 and until command of the air was secured in early 1944, an amphibious assault across the English Channel would have carried great military risk. And given that the British would have supplied the bulk of the troops for a 1943 invasion, military failure would have involved the political risk of undercutting Britain’s commitment to the war effort. Franklin Roosevelt, although overruling the chief of staff on this crucial strategic issue, came to regard him as so indispensable in Washington that, when the cross-Channel assault was finally mounted in 1944, he could not let Marshall assume command of the invasion force. The general was sorely disappointed but characteristically never uttered a word of complaint.
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  1466. Oh Naval Person that's absolutely fetching.That's from your sources mine say your full of shit - as usual - turd.Churchill gave his version of things,ya know after how many brandies and his proclivity to embellish.Churchill also took 50,000 troops from O'Connor and fired Auchenleck/Dorman-Smith after winning the 1st battle of El Alamein.Marshall never said that of course you wouldn't know much of a world war when the channel was giving your boys such fits.And it wasn't until mid '42 when the US started to shift the balance in the Pacific at Midway
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  1467. Burnhole and little villa summer is coming go vacation down by the channel - and splash around like your heroes.Poor Villa is even reduced to linking TIK on other boards - oh there is a credible source.Villa The Weidner has a masters degree and doesn't make crap up as you've been caught forging and you and burns share the same account and underwear.And the only facts they couldn't deny were the limp wrists they were fighting for
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  1468. Reading Citizen Soldiers by Stephen Ambrose, he interviewed Tedder and German Colonel Hans von Luck.He was in the center of things at Caen commanding the 121st Panzer Regiment of the 21st Panzer Division.He had a battery of 88s and some tanks.And he stated the trouble with Operation Goodwood(Caen) was not a lack of commitment,will or courage - they were all there.He said it was the planning and tactics that were deficient.He went on that the biggest error was leading the attack with tanks inadequately supported by infantry as von Luck had no infantry support around the 88 batteries that could have been driven off easily by British Infantry .As at Market Garden later the Gerries seem to be pointing at High Command.Happened to be the same misguided knob both times Ambrose goes on that 18 july began with massive bombardment from the air the air-7,7000 tonsof bombs delivered by 1,676 four engine bomberes and 343 mediums in what the official historian of SHAEF Dr Forrest Pogue called,"the heaviest and most concentrated air attack in support of ground troops ever attempted".While all this was going on the attempt on Hitler's life was sprung.The Wehrmacht was in dissarray yet Montgomery calls off GoodwoodEvidently Tedder was in earnst about having Monty removed as was Conningham earlier.I've read these things also from Hastings,Beevor and Atkinson to name just a few Monty was satisfied.IKE Air Marshall Tedder and the rest of SHAEFF was not after dropping more than 7,000 tons to advance just 7 miles.After the bombings and attempt on Hitlers life the battle should have been pressed on not backed out of.To bad you berks ran out of countries to blame
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  1469. Burns,Vile and Monty waving to the Gerries from the White Cliffs of Dover for 4 full years More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1470.  @owenjones7517  I don't care what he atributes,good historians show there work and footnote their sources.Guys like Neilands pulled crap like that all the time - Quoting unsubtantiated sources and stating rumor as fact. It would have been in the pre battle plans/field orders if that was to be dealt with as a threat.A whole sale saturation bombing would have been ordered Like Montgomery did at Caen to deal with that threat but is wasn't.They evidently did not feel the threat or have enough to go on
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  1471.  @nickdanger3802  Yup an excerpt a gross underestimation of the enemy and a serious misjudgment of the terrain.” 1 Kirkpatrick later goes on to attempt to explain the intelligence failure by saying, “In the one week between the decision to mount the operation and the attack there was not time to collect additional information on the enemy forces in the area.” 2 This last statement of his is clearly incorrect based on the Ultra messages, and brings his first statement into question. After the fall of Antwerp to the British Second Army on 4 September 1944, Ultra began to provide a very clear picture of the German forces moving into Holland, the reorganization within their command structure, the repositioning of panzer divisions to Holland, and the fact that the Germans anticipated an Allied attack, possibly with airborne forces, towards either Arnhem or Aachen. The intelligence information was available; whether commanders were adequately warned of the risks to the operation is really the question, as well as whether intelligence failed during this operation.
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  1472.  @nickdanger3802  Monty and IKE knew and went ahead -screw them both,
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  1473. Sure as the rest of call you Puddles
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  1474.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  do you think 1100 men killed crossing a river is a success? If Ridway said that then he was covering his own arse in the debacle. they had victory disease and got careless.Just because people fought 8 decades ago doesn't mean some of them were not full of crap. Peter Allen? never heard of him but he is either clueless or trying to sell books. The whole lot of them Winston,IKE,Monty,Ridgeway are rotting in HELL if there is such a place
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  1475. any other fables you'd like to pullout of your bloated backside? The USA came 3,500 miles with ships filled stem to stern with men,materiel,trucks,artillery,food,fuel,planes,provisions.Never once getting driven off the continent Monty was a fraud tried taking credit that wasn't his and shifted blame that was .Go watch the video docu - Desert Generals that is if you are not too tired reaching for another Beer
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  1476. No his pathetic plan was getting Tommies killed 3 miles in when 9 tanks were taken out by panzerfuasts. They made it a whole 7 miles as Urquhart disappeared for 38 hrs lathbury got wounded and Monty was having his picture painted - literally.They gave him everything. 3 US Armies were stopped to feed,fuel and facilitate the bent little freak's fantasy. Where was Monty during the largest air drop up until that time? "LORD" Carrington stopped after crossing the Nijmegen Bridge in Lent and going no further. So evidently the British award such valiant dithering by referring to him as *LORD*. And if you don't show up at all like bernard you achieve the lofty label of "Field Marshall",can't make that shit up. I would say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all. A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies.When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF. Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions.He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays.The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him The Second World War by John Keegan p. 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign . It was inexcusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence *As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary You can even ask your stable of Pseuds Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1477. An early grave awaits you,you need to stop daydreaming you could wander into traffic getting flattened. Thus denying the comment section of your astute observations
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  1478.  @zen4men  that and choking the working class the Dems here are trying to outshyt the the Repulicans who appear to be the lesser of two evils . Which isn't a glowing endorsement. But the working class is getting the shaft
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  1479.  @seth1422  Unfortunately some of theses slappies don't respond to good manners & proper etiquette or respond to dismissive sarcasm either
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  1480. This one's barking,are you Monty's little swiss boy?
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  1481. Puddles it wasn't I that pointed out you using aliases to agree with your self - roll down the windows and stop smelling your farts.Everyone who comes across you consider you a candidate for the asylum.I've informed them you are already there.For instance I was giving Burnhole a good pasting(as usual) and you forgot to sign out as Burns.Both Geronimo and Himmelsbach pointed that out.Have your handler take you to Wally World or Picadilly - ease the "Troubles".I won't leave like the others who were bored with your babble.On second thought I probably will - some one else will pull you thru.Good thing you have multiple aliases or personalities or what ever.
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  1482. That's very comforting a truly cheerful & refreshing scheme to contemplate at the present stage of affairs
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  1483. Oh my the inmate agreeing with himself Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan. From those there not a monty nutthugger.Who admitted Monty was shameful,then moved to America.Monty even admits - a bad mistake on my part From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed.Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" The Pedo Monty was never there and Scarrington stopped - sounds like the John Burns Brigade.That about seals it,LMAO.Have Monty give you a bath Cornhole - maybe you'll wake up
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  1484. From the guy who lives in the Nethewrlands Oddball SOK wrote and isn't it ironic that the biggest Rhine bifurcation was the WAAL at Nijmegen and the 30crps effectively HAD crossed the Rhine and all they had to do is do the same as the Germans at Pannerden Ferry:PUT TANKS ACROSS THE Pannerden and you were in free accessible German tank land !Only a small river Oude Ijssel at Doetinchem (which was there too after Market Garden ;p )and go go go into das deutsche Reich?! Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come ? How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over,under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November Just look at it at google maps: the river looks like nothing...
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  1485. Unlike you he lived there and actually studied the battles that you obviously have not done or care to .Do you get online to have someone to talk to? - get a life.Go cavort with your gaggle of squawking Twats Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  1486. Monty was lathering little Lucian and he got blasted by a real Field Marshall MOdel. Like you Burns he was a one legged man in an ass kicking contest
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  1487. yes you are
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  1488. According to the Lyndon Library you schwanz.Monty lost 17,000 in 9 Days,Bradley-Hodges lost 34,000 in 4 months - do the math not the meth.
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  1489.  @johnburns4017  blisterhead Burns you lie at the drop of a hat - and drop the hat yourself.Have them dial back the voltage at the home - and pickup the little green army men.The nurses are slipping on them.This very bad plan was Monty's from it's inception
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  1490. and when would that have happened?Just me and that's all one needs to pick your caterwauling apart
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  1491. Again when was this?Perhaps your having nightmares of the ward boy at the home there
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  1492. Get a life kid,grow up,stop being a burden on society,ask for help
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  1493. that your army was too small,poorly lead,ill equipped & ineffective - kind of like you in a comment sections.Also that you are a sick sod and should get off YT and into therapy
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  1494. Market Garden is what happens when a moron like Monty is put in charge.Unlike real Field Marshall's on the other side who were there commanding in person - unlike the MeerKat.Spanking's are Dunkirk,Singapore,Trobruk,Dieppe or what others administer to you nightly on these boards
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  1495. Model being an actual Field Marshall conducted a clinic in modern mechanical warfare.I would say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all
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  1496. Puddles,go sit in the corner adults are talking
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  1497. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK0FNnTX6cI&t=1s Not very flattering listen to the 1st 3 minutes - your head will explode the truth. An Englishman asking why Winnie waited for 4 full yrs.Have your handler repeat it for you
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  1498. Monty was like "Well I don't see how as the overall operational commander I could be responsible for all of that"
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  1499.  @oddballsok  great job he never has answers for you because he's revising and he knows it. Keeps repeating rot until the uninitiated believe it - like him self.I'd like to him actually carry 150lb fieldmachine guns and mortar tubes/base plates up and down the Heights to the landing zone,repeatedly thru the city to the Bridge as only 1/3 of the 82nd had been dropped the 1st day because Monty was moron in over his head
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  1500. Cornhole your middle name is fraud - do you have a life,afraid of leaving your keyboard because someone might swoop in and tell the truth.Well Lucian in the morning have the director of the library point out the non fiction section - you won't need your crayons
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  1501. Exactly any army that ever held Nijmegen held the Heights - totally polluted plan.Nothing coming or going over that bridge or on the Island that wasn't noticed. IKE should have know based on Monty's other hairbrained schemes this wouldn't end well
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  1502.  @nickdanger3802  good stuff ND and crickets
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  1503. Not a chance summer's coming.....I think - on Mon/Tue we had about 2"snow/ice.This week end in the 80s 😎
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  1504. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan,cool to know you still pull history out of your arse The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: *--Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.*I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  1505. Hey nick your hero little villa has shyt on GI's going back 6 years.He has made up other accounts to agree with himself - sure sign of mental illness right there
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  1506. XXX Corps only made 7 miles the 1st day. And continued to get the column blasted apart thus lagging more.It was Montgomery's crap plan that doomed this debacle from the start - the guy was an idiot
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  1507. Monty authored this bag of snakes and in real time he got blasted for it.BTW he never he showed up to direct so much as a mortar barrage
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  1508. Blisterhead Burns You're going to get carved up like the Christmas Goose again only he had more brains.Did the Vicar visit you at the Home this Christmas,perhaps get you out caroling and stop for some eggnog?
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  1509. Burns you chronic bed wetter do you have nightmares of monty and his sponge baths in the channel - don't even have to make that up. As a consolation prize Puddles they'll remove your ankle monitor at the home and let you out into the courtyard. In the mean time why don't you go visit Monty's statue in Arnhem.....oh that's right - there isn't one 🤣
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  1510. Johnny, Did the Vicar come by and visit you at the home for the Holidays .Perhaps he got you out wassailing with the rest of the group and have some eggnog, Yorkshire pudding, braised red cabbage, and pureed parsnips.Sorry you couldn't throw any darts - sharp things and all. You got coal again didn't you?
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  1511. A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 244 I put the responsibility for the operation squarely on the shoulders of Montgomery,who launched it then refused to listen to anyone who wished to modify a bad plan. Finally,he made the incredible statement that the operation was 90% successful. -Brian Urquhart,2003
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  1512. MONTY GARDEN
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  1513. More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1514. The British were slow and Monty never fookin' showed for his own operation. One elevated lane with no room for manuever for 64 miles with marshes on both sides that the Germans had flooded is the idea of an idiot who has no business leading a Boy Scout Assembly.Numerous times this hair brained scheme was stopped by Panzerfausts - really think about that.
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  1515. The 82nd didn't hold up XXX Corp crawl.When they finally crossed the Bridge - they sat.Both the Gerries and 82nd witnessed it.And their own men admitted it.Numbering your opinionated piles doesn't make it accurate another PHD -From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night As Heinz Harmel later put it ​*the English drank too much tea* the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it *the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move*​ ​While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge - we were stopped. I never felt so much despair
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  1516. https://www.rt.com/op-ed/184228-battle-arnhem-anniversary-commemoration/ Guards Armoured should have been at Arnhem bridge at the time the lead elements of the division arrived at Nijmegen. As General David Fraser recalled in his memoirs "Nevertheless I remember the impressive silhouette of the long bridge across the Maas (Meuse) at Grave. This had been captured by the American airborne troops and took us across the first main water obstacle at about ten o’clock in the morning of 19th September. By then the operation had been running for over forty hours and was already well behind schedule." Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow . By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact  that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively."  Here,Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth.
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  1517. When you are in a hole- stop digging your revision I'll take the words of learned men of historical academia and their cached wealth of information rather than that of a bent slappie apologists who poke their heads out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan.Your "new information" is always patently false to foist up a once great empire and a field marshall that never really was
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  1518. Pop off on your media backwaters all you want - you started the condescending remarks the only thing that supersedes your ignorance is your willingness to express it.All these vetted Historians and actual participants are full of it and you are to be believed,sure. Repeat that out loud and see how it sounds From Carlo D'este,Decision in Normandy From the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal* was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him Lt Gen Browning to Maj Gen G. E. Prier-Palmer, British Joint Services Mission, Washington, D.C., 25 Jan 55, excerpt in OCMH "I personally gave an order to Jim Gavin that, although every effort should be made to effect the capture of the Grave and Nijmegen Bridges as soon as possible, it was essential that he should capture the Groesbeek Ridge and hold it—for … painfully obvious reasons …. If this ground had been lost to the enemy the operations of the 2nd Army would have been dangerously prejudiced as its advance across the Waal and Neder Rhein would have been immediately outflanked. Even the initial advance of the Guards Armoured Division would have been prejudiced and on them the final outcome of the battle had to depend." The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies.When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions..He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays.The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him
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  1519. Go back and see what you wrote do you have the memory span of a stewed newt?You popped off and got schooled.Britain had good men - Montgomery wasn't amongst them
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  1520. The war was fought in the past you are a simpleton who refuses historical fact.I have quoted 3 Historians with PHD's and actual participants of the battle British/German/American and you babble "I was schooled in the conventional wisdom" Have your handler take you to the library's history section.I should be charging for this! From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p309 at the North end of the Bridge Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Amored Division to push on immediately for Arnhem just 10 miles up the road.Theirelation turned toward anger as the growing British force remained immobile .LT Patrick Murphy from 3rd Battalion,504th Regiment climbed aboard Sg Robinson's tank and urged him to move only to be informed by the willing Robinson that he had no orders to do so.Capt.Burris was reportedly so furious he threatened the deputy commander of no.1 Squadron Capt.Peter (Lord) Carrington with his Thompson gun,Carrington dropped inside the tank and locked the hatch. Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp.General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have they been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." Gavin did not have an answer for him The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Compant HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate. Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points. And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial From September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 329-31 The 82nd lost 48 KIA,138 wounded,it was now the British allies from XXX Corp turn to roll over the bridges with tanks and reinforcements and to fight their way to Arnhem to relieve the embattled countrymen from 1st Airborne.There wasn't a second to lose .In the Americans view the time to attack was right now,while the Germans were in disarray. Instead XXX Corp Tankers halted for the night,prompting a bitter dispute between the 82nd and Guards Armored.The 82nd just lost half of their men and the British Paras in Arnhem were being cut to shreds. Carrington said "I can't go with out orders .Lt A.D.Demetras overheard Col Tucker arguing with Carrington you'd better go it's only 8 miles To no avail the British tankmen refused to push for Arnhem that evening From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358  LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced  - From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line.
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  1521. When you are done cleaning your teeth with your finger - try turning the pages of a History Book with it. The 82nd AB had 89 men killed & 138 wounded crossing the Waal,many died later of those wounds .Just to hook up with the Tankers and carry the fight forward but they sat there instead.What part of that could you not grasp?Those quotes aren't repeated just by actual participants go ask a Bobby if witnesses mean anything. 11,000 go in 2,100 come out.There is nothing new except for your steaming piles. The 82nd didn't sit there safe and sound inside their tanks while 1st Para and the 82nd fought bravely. How dare a chicken shit steaming pile like you badmouth men like that. Try sourcing something other than you backside. Are you incapable of comprehending the written word? Go back and read those eye witness accounts real men in real time,Germans/Americans/British relaying what they witnessed, pretty straight forward but evidently that concept is just a little complex for you? Oh but you have new information by people who weren't there 75 yrs ago, as you sit here kicking and screaming attempting to flip the script. It was a crap plan from a so called field marshall that never showed up unlike a German Field Marshall who did. It got blasted stem to stern much like you in the comment sections. Horrocks himself called it the most gallant act he witnessed in the whole of the war - is he full of shit too? This whole debacle was Monty's last gasp grab for glory after his many cock ups like Sicily/Caen/Falaise/OMG Look these up to if you'd like Arnhem.Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333*Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes:'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, *he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ From Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle.There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed We knew what even a handful of Germans could do - they were so damned efficient. Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem when asked how he intended to win the war, Churchill responded I'll drag the United States into it.He's full of shit to?Try sourcing something other than one's ample arse. Here's another guy whose probably full of shit,boy you got a million of them From Six Armies in Normandy,by John Keegan In just 30 days, Patton finished his sweep across France and neared Germany. The Third Army had exhausted its fuel supplies and ground to a halt near the border in early September.Allied supplies had been redirected northward for the normally cautious General Montgomery’s reckless Market Garden gambit. That proved a horrible scheme to leapfrog over the bridges of the Rhine River; it devoured Allied blood and treasure, and accomplished almost nothing in return. Meanwhile, the cutoff of Patton’s supplies would prove disastrous Scattered and fleeing German forces regrouped. Their resistance stiffened as the weather grew worse and as shortened supply lines began to favor the defense
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  1522. no mythologies As General Erich Ludendorff stated in WWI "British are lions being led by jackasses" But if you need a refresher here was where we found you British forces were being "strategically evacuated" from 1940 Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk 1941 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya 1942 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore the GIs sailed 3500 miles of ocean so Monty/Brooke could sail the last 30 across a channel. Go across and ask the Euros shouldn't take you that long. Like the Poles/Czechs your Imperial inbreds betrayed. Or the Dutch they left in the lurch but monty abandoned his own men there. Britsh history is a lie agreed upon around here
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  1523. Slappy brownings 1955 order has been quoted would you like that again,have the nurses there read it to you
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  1524. yes but i don't talk nonsense ,john burns is a misguided skragg who scribbles graffiti with his crayons - then he probably eats them
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  1525. What on earth are you Gray ignoring Monty not showing up like the other field marshall and the many british debacles the 50 miles below Nijmegan.Or the 43rd Wessex getting lost and XXX Corps tanks showing up a day late and only 4 of them? When at least 10 Irish Guard Tanks were at the 82nds river crossing - MONTY GARDEN. And they weren't pounding a forest. WTF are you bellowing
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  1526.  @NorwayT  exactly Monty should have been removed and IKE called on the carpet for this.Too many had victory disease in Allied HQ
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  1527.  @johnburns4017  What so called empire with Montgomery as it's so called Field Marshall could not come across it's so called Channel for 4 full years?Turning the so called Big Three into the Big Two?And no peaking into Burns Big Book of British Bollocks,because they most certainly are not a family of so called warriors
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  1528. You're an idiot hoping to achieve imbecility From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358  LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it The English drank too much tea,the 4Tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent , if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 As LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained yet the Guards Armored Division did not move ​ While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer  ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured .LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright, we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge. Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge - we were stopped. I never felt so much despair The more laissez-faire attitude of the chain of command prevailed .Another precious 24 hrs were allowed to slip by while 1st Airborne  Division continued to fight for its life​
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  1529. Montgomery obviously didn't learn a thing from Sicily/Italy on Airborn tactics.He was a poor choice to lead a Boy Scout assembley
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  1530. Too bad Monty didn't direct like a professional Field Marshall named Model
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  1531. Beevor tells the truth has been knighted,vetted and peer reviewed - so the complete opposite of Village Asston
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  1532.  @akgeronimo501  Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  1533.  @akgeronimo501  I'm sure the Tommies would hang the heads in shame if they read Vile Asston's bellowing
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  1534.  @akgeronimo501  After listening to his incessant chatter I'm convinced it's Hanlon's Razor: Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity The chowder head responded to someone with a link to a whole board with like 4,000 posts.That was her answer - hoping someone actually was demented enough to make a comparable statement to cover his forlorn bumbling
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  1535.  @akgeronimo501  actually had the Luftwaffe kept attacking military/radar installations it could have gotten dicey.Hitler/Goering decided to go after civilian targets buying the RAF needed time to refit & supply.IMO - The RAF performed at a higher efficiency rating than the Supposed Field Marshall ever did
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  1536.  @akgeronimo501  yup the Heer heading east was the Crown's redemption
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  1537. Browning wasn't Gavin had served in Italy were monty sat on his arse just like sicily are you his swiss boy burns.Go ask your European neighbors who watched Monty splashing around the channel .Browning demanded capturing the heights 1st so Gavin did.The laggards Carrington and the Burns family chickened out
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  1538. More drivel from dave just covering for the squawking twat Monty who like himself was nowhere around. Monty is looking forward to the time You drop dead so that You can worship him in the afterlife.
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  1539. MONTY GARDEN,Johnny you're getting carved up like the Christmas Goose - only he had more brains Monty doesn't show up & you chodes call him a Field Marshall. Carrington crosses the Waal Bridge then stops in Lent refusing to go on and you refer to him as LORD. Churchill demands GERMANY FIRST then they head 3000 miles away into a desert. Brooke/Bernard took 4 years to cross a 30 mile channel after getting driven into it. And the GIs come 3500 miles of ocean with every provision imaginable to try and get it sorted. All this of course after British forces were being "evacuated" from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 All of Europe knows you were Eunuchs
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  1540. nope bernard was washing up lads and no where around,and of course XXX Corp was late then sat,like your relatives on the White Cliffs
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  1541. From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 244 I put the responsibility for the operation squarely on the shoulders of Montgomery,who launched it then refused to listen to anyone who wished to modify a bad plan.Finally,he made the incredible statement that the operation was 90% successful.- Brian Urquhart,2003
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  1542. No Monty shyt the bed BIG TIME Churchill went to FDR as the BEF was getting lost between the USA/USSR.This may have been the most idiotic idea.Should a few tanks make Arnhem they'd get blasted into the Rhine or taken prisoner.A real Field Marshall Walter Model was directing operations. As you know monty wasn't even there.Kurt Student And Model where bringing men and material in whole sale from the near by Ruhr.Because the Moron Monty didn't open the largest deep water port in Europe(ANTWERP) the Allies had to lug supplies all the way from Cherbourg - 499 miles away.Bradley's 12th Army Group and Devers 6th Army group were both stopped to supply the biggest buffoon on either front - bernard.IKE effectively ignored him the rest of the war
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  1543. the single road was the invention of an idiot,shoe horning one column of 23-26,000 vehicles down one mostly elevated lane, so one understands why you are a fan - fraud. badmouthing a country that came across 3500 miles of ocean so that destitute show pony of yours could cross 30 miles of a channel
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  1544. Ya like Montgomery - that had the spine of gummy bear and chose to ignore an operation he ignited,read the Full Monty
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  1545.  @davidrendall7195  great insights and accurate
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  1546. Why you never have,now johnny pick up your little green army men off of the steps.The nurses keep slipping on them,you'll get no more court yard priviliges if you don't. Father Christmas is coming - you'd better be good
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  1547. Cornhole more BS from the Home.He never moved and when he did it was for cover Britain had good soldiers but the rancid runt wasn't amongst them
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  1548. No Bradley later blamed Monty in his second book,Ike again aqcuiesced to the rube for political considerations/pressure from up top - that is clear.And if Ike didn't know shit like Monty bragged how would he have known what he did was so brilliant.And try book/author/page no ya know kind of helps with the credibility aspect Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 30 Dr Forrest C.Pogue,interviews,US Army Military Institute,1947 On the evening of August 12 Gen.Bradley called Gen. Montgomery's HQ requesting to send Gen Haislips XV Corps north to the boundary at Argentan toward Falaise.Bradley's request was denied' Montgomery's staff officer Brigadier E.T.Williams said he was in Freddie DeGuingand's truck near Bayreaux when Bradley's call went through;"Monty said tell Bradley they ought to get back.Bradley was indignant.We were indignant on Bradley's behalf...Monty missed closing the sack Bradley,Deguingand and Williams argued in favor of the Americans moving north to Argentan to close the gap,but Monty would not change his mind Major General Francis De Guingand confirms this statement in his own book, "Operation Victory." "My impressions at the time were that Montgomery had been a little to optimistic about the probable progress of 21st Army Group... It is just possible that the gap might have been closed a little earlier if no restrictions had been imposed upon the 12th Army Group Bradley as to the limit of his northward movement." Francis De Guingand, Operation Victory," p. 407 Since De Guingand was unaware of any discussions Eisenhower and Bradley may have had, the order limiting Bradley's northward movement must have come from Montgomery. see after they were free from the runt's mismanagements they blast him,almost every officer did
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  1549. IKE ordered Bradley to do it,why did Bradley then blame Monty for the debacle and why would Freddie and the Intl officer lie?They didn't,Because of politics.By this time the the Allied Powers were jockeying for position and in fighting amongst the Allies was not a good look to the soviets.Williams and Deguingand both heard him say it and the Was from the US Army Archives.Bradley like Monty flipped flopped alot depending on what story served there purpose.And Neilands has been dismissed by serious Historians he's been caught making shit up like you rubes
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  1550. Cornhole and Villa Ass are the same turd agreeing with each other.Jump in the channel - it's about the height on Monty's career
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  1551. Because the Air Corp bombed the crap out of it you berk.Notice Monty didn't lead - too bad really
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  1552. More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1553. the 1000 tanks were a creation of an author Poulussen.They weren't in the 82nds pre battle plans or order of Battle . It stands to reason the Reichswald would have held tanks/arty.Distorians - 70+ yrs after the fact.
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  1554. Antwerp that was IKE's and SHAEF'S directive on Sept 4th bernard pushed for Monty Garden - to get him to do something - anything
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  1555. Little Villa for 4 yrs - FOUR YEARS I've left direct quotes from these Officers below who unlike your boy Wilmont were at Allied HQ meetings. You can even move your lips as you read if that helps I should be charging you for this Alan Brooke's own words and Monty admitting it from his memoirs.Rick Atkinson a Pullitzer Prize Winner even chimes in,where as we know you just pull it "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely...." The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him. How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler* By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp.He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery;based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for him was very weak Please copy/paste/cache to avoid further delusion on your part or have the nurses there at the center do it for you. You can even share it with the poster above,whom you seem to think gives a shit what you scribble
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  1556. Personal Papers look it up,Have the ward boy there read the part about Brooke/Ramsay again.It's in english if that helps
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  1557. Thicko since 2018 when i arrived i've presented these to you evidently you are troll or have the attention span of a goat. From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599 "Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" So Monty admitting it,Brooke/Ramsay/Tedder - all senior British/SHAEF officers pointing right at him presented to you yet again hasn't sunk in? Why don't you ask these guys Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 Coincidence I'm sure,of course it is 🤣
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  1558. Proof the Brits skedaddle leaving the big boys to finish the bloody work .It called guts and balls if you want to win a World War instead of hanging on to the coattails of who is .No surprise did this to a lesser extent with the Canadians and Anzac troops.Heard all the yammering about the Crown was already fighting and tired - sure 198,000 at Dunkirk and 81,000 at Singapore yup fine soldiering right there
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  1559. MONTY GARDEN -- you are here to get clicks - as Geronimo stated in any other army but yours,the Commander is responsible for what happens or fails to happen under his watch - do you not read history? you try getting your hero off the hook. Poullusen was a photographer who could not identify a an M-1,You need read those books(don't lie) as it wasn't new evidence - it was evidence you didn't read. Unlike Montgomery an actual Field Marshall Walter Model showed up and directed in person.There is a reason when you blame dead memmbers and the 82nd for a fraud who wasn't around The 82nd had nothing to do with Monty's/Horrocks poor planning and XXX Corps slow progress or the Germans still between Nijmegen and Arnhem,keep deflecting it was only pointed out on your original board by about 1,000 actually dialed in history buffs.5 tanks from XXX Corp show up then sit, and the germans themselves said there was nothing to stop them,you are either hypocrite or ignorant. Where the F*** where Monty/Horrocks?there were 17 bridges over what 12/13 canals and rivers and the Largest air drop in history up to that point - where were they? -you are not off the hook for blaming JR officers and in fact attempting changing the narrative. Monty was a propped up fraud and rode everyone else's accumulative hard work to a  headline.Until the truth unraveled and it was obvious his command abilities were greatly exaggerated as IKE later figured out.Oh and there were 48-51 soldiers from the 82nd killed and 138 injured - Monty caused the disaster - The issue a debate to sir anthony - please or write a book,puhleeze.Poullusen was a photographer who could not identify a an M-1, and it wasn't new evidence - it was evidence you didn't choose read or bring up As the Dutch poster odball SOK stated and I'm paraphrasing How come Field Marshall WalterModel and General Kurt Student were able to ferry tanks and troops across rivers/canals under the ever watchfull RAF,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November!!!
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  1560. Enjoying the land of make believe are you? - the Vicar will be by the center to see ,he's a nice man.He'll take you for a walk about but you'll have to wear your ankle bracelet,you tried running away last time and that got embarrassing In 1940 British forces "evacuated" from Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and FranceDunkirk 1941 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya. 1942 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore. As Bradley said, Montgomery rarely won a battle any other competent general wouldn't have won as well or better. Most historians and other officers agreed Monty wouldn't attack until his strength was such as to ensure victory Even worse was his surfeit of caution. Eisenhower once said "that Monty will never willingly make a single move until he has concentrated enough resources so that anybody could practically guarantee the outcome...". Britain had a chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940. She failed utterly and miserably. From that point onward, whatever Britain does and regardless of what happens to her - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US. MAX Hastings.Armageddon: the battle for Germany, 1944-45 By 1945, the Russians cared little for British remonstrances, but they respected the power of the Americans.All those holding power in the United States recognized that only two powers would count in the post-war world, and Britain would not be one of them. Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt
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  1561. 1st Monty is driven from the continent then runs away to the desert.And doesn't come back across the Channel for 4 years.Funny it took only 16 days to leave .You abandoned the French and the ANZACs in the S.Pacific along with throwing the Czechs under the bus at Munich.Then come screaming to the USA help us please Churchill after Pearl Harbor No American will think it wrong of me if I proclaim that to have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. I could not foretell the course of events. I do not pretend to have measured the marshall might of Japan, but now at this very moment I knew the United States was in the war up to the neck and in to the death. So we had won after all!” Type this into the search field of Youtube The Friendship Between Britain And The USA | Warlords: Churchill vs Roosevelt | Timeline go to 2:30 then listen. Churchill emphatically stated his plan for winning the war was "I shall drag in the United States.”
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  1562. should I continue blowing your mind with facts? The reality is that the UK and commonwealth played a very very small role in the whole war. Look at Poland - look where it was in 1939 and where it was left in 1946 by the Crown Montgmery was an uppity little nothing who thought rather too much of his own position in things. He was about as important as lords,Princes,Earls,Dukes are to the rest of the world. Bernard was a very small player on the winning team and lucky to be there at that. Had Montgomery never graced a battle field the result would have been the same. You've just read too many of the crowns own comics Stop reading Burns Big Book of Bollocks - Bernard had his chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940 - but swim away he did.Lions led by jackasses - Ludendorf was right
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  1563. 4 years - 30 miles monty had his chance but wisely waited for the Big Boys having been Dunkirked already.Monty didn't move in Italy and got schooled in Sicily. So the GIs didn't mind him tagging along just one last time to see what it felt like.Bernard had his chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940.He failed, From that point onward, whatever he does and regardless of what happens to him - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US.
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  1564. Extra point question johnny,What continent did Generals Gort,Brooke and Montgomery get driven from and skedaddle in the other direction .Leaving the Dutch,Poles,French,Belgians to cover their retreat. The same continent the 82nd Airborne never retreated from.Take your time I know it's a tough one.And pick your plastic soldiers up off the steps - mum will be home soon and may slip she works so hard for your therapy and all.
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  1565. Burns go visit Monty's Statue in Arnhem - oh that's right there isn't one 🤣 Why did monty cross the road? To help JOHN Burns with his ankle monitor 😁 Why wasn't Monty arrested for Buggery? Because it was the best time of John Burns life. 🤣 How did Monty cross the Channel? Because he got his ass kicked out of France 🚑 - When you're in hole stop digging dweeb Monty was an ankle biter passing himself off as a head hunter RING THE NURSES STATION your pants are filled again
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  1566. Enjoying the land of make believe are you? - the Vicar will be by the center to see ,he's a nice man.He'll take you for a walk about but you'll have to wear your ankle bracelet,you tried running away last time and that got embarrassing
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  1567. Burnhole when your done cleaning your tooth with your finger try typing in WWII history. No wonder your neighbor named his dog Monty - he also left a bunch of steaming piles everywhere he went like you and Monty 😁
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  1568. Burns was Monty a little rough with you in the tub?Can't make that shit up,like you Bernard was no where around during MONTY GARDEN. The 82nd had nothing to do with Monty's poor planning and XXX Corps slow progress or the Germans still between Nijmegen and Arnhem.Or the Gerries pouring in from the Ruhr that brought armor the 1st day across the Arnhem Road Bridge.Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger. Plenty went wrong south of Nijmegen down past Eindoven and well south to Valkenswaard and before there even.
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  1569. your army was too small,poorly lead,ill equipped & ineffective - kind of like you in a comment sections. Read The Full Monty by Hamilton. I think John Burns is mentioned in it
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  1570. YAWNING this makes me sleepy.Monty had 4 full yrs to go 30 miles and only when FDR demanded it and the GIs held his hand doing it did the little truant druid stick his toes into the channel.The French were screaming Sacre Bleu,The Gerries were snickering and Stalin and the rest of Europe were like WTF This from a New Zealander: More Englishmen turned and ran than any other point in the war. I know it hurts - the truth often does. The Poms are next to useless whenever there is an armed force oposing them that is perhaps even half as strong in men and material. The poms' most glorious land battles have been historically fought agains tribesmen with spears. A more cowardly bunch of whinging endemic losers has never taken the field.Shameful - but expected. Montgmery was an uppity little nothing who thought rather too much of his own position in things. He was about as important as a soviet latrine digger. You've just read too many crowns own comics.Britain served as an unsinkable carrier for the French invasion - and that's about it. You seem to think that Britain was important to WW2 and that people like Montgomery were important characters. Wrong. Had Montgomery never graced a battle field the result would have been the same. The reality is that the UK and commonwealth played a very very small role in the whole war. You don't want to see it because history is not important to you. You want to watch rousing movies that make you think you won the war when in reality you barely had a part in it. As for Poland - look where it was in 1939 and where it was left by its allies in 1946. And Britain absolutely shat on poor old Poland...Do you really think Britain discharged its obligations by abandoning Poland to the Russians at the end of the war?? Good Grief your view is shallow. Also, what was it that Britain do before 1941? Not much. There was the phony war followed by the Dunkirk fiasco followed by the Battle of Britain - the most overblown event in WW2 and some skirmishes in North Africa. The weak whiney, whingey, broke Poms had a treaty with Poland. I don't think that treaty said 'we won't help you if you're invaded by Russia'. That means that the Poms abandoned Poland twice. Once at the beginning of the war for not going to war against the USSR when it invaded Poland pursuant to the Ribbentrop pact and then again at the end of the war when it didn't insist on Polish indepedence. Do you understand now when I say to was abandoned by the Poms??? Evidently,Johnny a Colonial not real impressed with your inbred aristocracy 🤣
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  1571. How come Field Marshall Walter Model and General Kurt Student were able to ferry tanks and troops across rivers/canals under the ever watchfull RAF,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November ??? (that from a Dutch Poster) It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September after MONTY GARDEN to cross the Rhine. in that time Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine . Try the library and not Burns Big Book of Bollocks.I'm not giving you anymore attention or TIK anymore clicks.More than happy to pound you on other boards though 😍
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  1572. Sounds like a Monty fan - who neither showed up on day one, or day two, or day three etc.Speaking of day 3 that's when XXXCorp tanks finally made the Bridge @ Nijmegen.Both the Germans & GIs chronicled this in journals,dispatches and after battle accounts -Puddles try on your Big Barrie,Peate or Pierre Psueds,this burns thicko isn't getting much traction Write down what you know. That should leave you with a lot of free time to make up more whoppers
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  1573. So let's review shall we, ♦️did you visit those fine Czech folks like I told you to?Did you explain why your crown sold them out to the NAZI's in 1938 ? ♦️Did you explain to the French why you left them covering your retreat in 1940 while Monty was boarding the boats and they were taking bullets? Kind of explains why they came back with the GIs and took Southern France while Winnie and Brooke wanted to keep faffing around in Italy. ♦️How about the Dutch did you tell them why Monty left them on the horn of the Hun and the Hunger Winter that followed after he didn't have the nerve to show up for an operation that he brageed would take him to Berlin that took him backwords to Antwerp? sad really you sit on the lunatic fringe of a media back water attempting to prop up a pratt trying to pass himself off as a Field Marshall. Is that why you are infatuated with bernard - did he give you the FULL MONTY
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  1574. Burns Guards Armored and 43 Wessex just arrived in Nijmegan,tell them the war is over and all is forgiven. Now go spin your Wham Records and spoon with your monty doll - dweeb
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  1575. Have that head wound checked out.I think monty's is getting a little rough with you in the tub again - ring the nurses station and report this
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  1576. Pulling history out of your very rank crevasse I suppose John Keegan perhaps the most learned man on WWII history and lectured at Sandhurst is full of it too The Second World War by John Keegan,page 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable,since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp.Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary.On 10 September he secured Eisenhowers assent to the plan https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp Market Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Monty is handed command OMG failed because the rancid Runt didn't open Antwerp - deliberately I might add.He thought (because he was mentally ill) he could play keep away men,material and most of all fuel.Because Patton embarrassed the slow moving Monty at Sicily as he would later at Bastogne and crossing the Rhine.The Crown couldn't have that because they saw their once glorious Empire losing face - which they most certainly did From September Hope,by John C.McManus,pages 63 General Browning cautioned General Gavin "Although every effort should be made to effect the capture of the Grave and Nijmegen Bridges,it is essential that you capture the Groesbeek ridge and hold it.
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  1577. Monty was superior to no one Better generals than him were let go before the drunk Winnie realized his mistake but Ike kept kissing hiney of the Crown just to shut him up but it backfired.But it didn't matter partnering with the USA meant the end of the Reich.Never tossed into the channel either Here is the rest of Monty's debacle From Market Garden Reconsidered There are many factors that can be cited for the failure of Operation Market Garden, all deserving of consideration:The report by OB West blamed the decision to spread the airborne drop over more than one day as the main reason for the failure. The Luftwaffe agreed and added that the airborne landings had been spread too thinly and too far from the Allied frontline. General Student thought the airborne landings were a great success and blamed the failure on the slow progress of XXX Corps In this respect, Generalfeldmarschall Model deserves credit for the skill with which he used the sparse resources available to him, particularly given the state Fifteenth Army was in at the time, and for recognising the importance of the Nijmegen bridges .Lt General Brereton reported to Washington that Market had been a brilliant success but had been let down by Garden, with which Bradley in part agreed, blaming Montgomery and the slow advance by the British between Nijmegen and ArnhemMajor General Urquhart blamed the fact that the drop zones for 1st Airborne were too far from the bridge and rather unfairly, his own actions on the first day. Lt General Browning's report blamed XXX Corps' underestimation of the strength of the German forces in the area, the slowness with which it moved up the highway the weather, his own communications staff and 2nd Tactical Air Force for failing to provide adequate air support. He also managed to get General Sosabowski dismissed from his command for his increasingly hostile attitude. Field Marshal Montgomery blamed the slowness of XXX Corps in general and O'Connor in particular. Later, he partially blamed himself, but laid a large proportion of the blame on Eisenhower. ". . . if the operation had been properly backed from its inception, and given the aircraft, ground forces, and administrative resources necessary for the job - it would have succeeded in spite of my mistakes, or the adverse weather, or the presence of 2nd SS Panzer Corps in the Arnhem area." There is also the matter of allowing the German Fifteenth Army to escape into northern Holland where it could defend the approaches to Arnhem by not clearing the Scheldt estuary, the nature of the highway along which XXX Corps had to advance (a two tank front), the failure to appreciate the unpredictability of the British weather in September, the critical requirement of good communications, which at that point in history was unlikely given the level of technology available and the blatant ignoring of intelligence (from both the Dutch resistance and reconnaissance flights) that armoured units had moved into the Arnhem area Sosabowski in particular feared a flexible, speedy, and strong response, saying, The British are not only grossly underestimating German strength in the Arnhem area,but they seem ignorant of the significance Arnhem has for the Fatherland pretty much the norm
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  1578. you have tourette's we read you the 1st 5 times.*https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/anne-sacoolas-needs-to-face-justice-for-the-death-of-harry-dunn/2019/10/13/f0c78ab6-eba7-11e9-a329-7378fbfa1b63_story.html* - take it up with Trump.I hope justice catches up to her and you for shitting on dead GI's asshole.Encourage any firebombing of the Irish lately? like you previously suggested
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  1579. Carrington should have been shot,John Frost himself knew Carrington pussed out
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  1580. More bullshit Monty kept in contact with no one - he was AWOL.What was Horrocks suppose to say to his supposed superior."Ya Monty the Pedo screwed this plan to hell and Back Idiots
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  1581. More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe       joined 26  Sept 2013     Giovanni Pierre     joined 28  Sept 2013     John Peate            joined 28  Sept 2013     John Burns            joined 07  Nov  2013     John Cornell          oined 13   Nov  2013     TheVilla Aston      joined 20   Nov 2013
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  1582. From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 365-66 In fact the fundamental concept of Operation Market Garden defied military logic because it made no allowance for anything to go wrong,nor for the enemy's likely reaction .In short the whole operation ignored the old rule that no plan survives 1st contact with the enemy.Montgomery even blamed the weather not the plan,even asserting the plan was 90% successful because they got 9/10ths of the way to Arnhem General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops . At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after
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  1583. The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies
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  1584. He studied under John Keegan at Sandhurst and lectured at Cambridge.And you mop puddles at the Adult Theatre,good luck with your double feature
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  1585. John Burns dabbles in delusion the way other artists work on canvas or clay. 3 different Authors all pointing out the obvious that John burns and history have but a fleeting acquaintance Decision in Normandy, by Carlo D'este from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance. It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed With Prejudice, by Air Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Page 599 Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later
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  1586.  @trickylifts  Good Post,Pip Roberts was actually a very capable commnader however ham strung being tethered to Monty and his miscues.If IKE gave Monty a million men he would swear the enemy had 2 and he'd start screaming for 3. Just Like McClellen in the American Civil War.I'm convinced he was reincarnated as Montgomery After Caen,Goodwood,Falaise and Monty Garden IKE realized what many British Commanders already knew - Monty's rep was greatly embellished beyond either his accomplishments or abilities warrented. As General Bradley stated Montgomery rarely won a battle any other competent general wouldn't have won as well or better
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  1587. Bloated Burns from his backside belched:Zaloga reinforces what I wrote. What I wrote was clear... ------------------------------------------------------------------ He never said anything like it.That's why you scream like a cat in a fan belt over on his board.Blisterhead you lie like a rug 🤣😁
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  1588. Actually i believe Churchill later regretted sacking the Auk and installing the yapping little jackel.Auchinleck needed 6 weeks to refit & resupply.When that wasn't good enough he was fired,so Monty took 10 weeks but churchill knew he just created a problem.Montgmery was an uppity little nothing who thought rather too much of his own position in things. The war in N. Africa was won with massive allied advantages,He was a very small player on the winning team and lucky to be there at that. Had Montgomery never graced/disgraced a battle field the result would have been the same.
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  1589. Churchill faffed it,he was impatient and clearly forgot about his mis management at Gallipoli.Great statesman,had no business in a war room.But then again neither did Monty
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  1590. yes David Irving Burns is a bent freak she asked for evidence Nick gave it to her then she squawks bombast. See where she comes from getting driven from Norway,Netherlands,Belgium,France,Dunkirk indeed the continent are all strategic withdrawals. Monty had 4 full yrs to come across a 30 mile wide channel.Instead ran away 3,000 miles into the desert and Little Villa can't understand why the rest of the Europe left to the Reich can't see the brilliance of this
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  1591. Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery;based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for him was very weak
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  1592. absolutely Monty always had an out knowing his plans would belly up.He had 4 years to cross the channel - yup Americans fault
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  1593. Burns you pathetic knob you literally lie by changing what the author said - you have been busted doing this more times than monty was caught with Lucian.Word for word thanx for showing the comment section you are a lying hack - but they already knew that UNITED STATES ARMY IN WORLD WAR II The European Theater of Operations THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN By Charles B. MacDonald CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY UNITED STATES ARMY WASHINGTON, D.C., 1993 P157 General Browning, was "clear and emphatic" to the effect that the division was "not to attempt the seizure of the Nijmegen Bridge until all other missions had been successfully accomplished In his formal order General Browning stated: "The capture and retention of the high ground between Nijmegen and Groesbeck is imperative in order to accomplish the Division's task."
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  1594. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan .One needs a bucket reading your posts.The BEF was getting very little to the war effort at this time.What they had was decent except of course for the mutt Monty who the nutthugger Little Villa here props up.The GIs never got tossed into the channel like Monty and after monty got the Paras eviscerated at OMG the GIs had to fight thru the Hurtgen thanx to the demented WWI Generals crap plan IKE had to keep feeding the pathetic berk Gi's because he was getting most of the Tommies killed at Caen,Epsom,Goodwood,Falaise and most certainly Market Garden where the Rancid Runts single thrust shit theory was absolutely shreaded - in any other army he would have been relieved .In Russia or Germany - shot . From Overlord,by Max Hastings,page 236 Monty announced during the Caen offensive that he was well pleased with the results.He wired Brooke in London "operations a complete success...he told the press his Armies had broken through the German front.Headlines the next day reflected Montgomery's enthusiasm for the battle:"Second Army breaks through...British Army in full cry...Wide corridor through German front...."  From Churchill and Montgomery Myth,by R.W.Thompson,page 170 None of it was true - when it became obvious a few days later,the news papers were scurrying to correct themselves.Montgomery's exaggerations did not surprise experienced British Journalists;he had destroyed the German 90th Division so many times in North Africa it had become a joke . Again,The pinhead blasted his last chance to be relevant.Took 6 months - 6 months for the Rube to cross a river after his 1st attempt.The US wet nursed the failure Montgomery by continually lend him the 1st and 9th Armies and he was still the last to cross the Rhine - just like the channel but that took 4 years.Guess that's military accomplishment in the 21st Army group - no where else I should be charging for this
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  1595.  @mikemazzola6595  British Revision,Brits always fight to last colonial, usually Australians .It seems they and history have but a fleeting acquaintance .Forgive them,They're just pissy their sorry ass crown had to give back & give up the rights to all those sovereign nations they previously enjoyed manipulating & plundering.
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  1596. BTW it's 80 yrs starting this week that Monty led one of the largest retreats in Military History @ Dunkirk.It's also 75 years ago this week for Victory in Europe.See what a Super Power can do in just 5 yrs.Even correcting all the damage done by the crumbling crown and it's rancid runt got themselves into - You're welcome
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  1597. IKE had already stopped Devers 6th Army Group and Bradley's 12th Army Group to supply/support Monty's advance. I suppose IKE should have asked the Wehrmacht if it wasn't too much trouble they could stop also to help Bernard out You know the same guys who couldn't cross his own channel for 4 yrs so IKE had to cross and ocean to do it for him.Read THE FULL MONTY, there are laws on this side of the Atlantic against creeps like that
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  1598. Burns you steaming pile lying comes natural to you doesn't it?The V-2s were still on rails and killing more in Antwerp than they ever did in Britain.Go say that to a Dutchmans face you tiny brained wiper of other people's bottoms
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  1599. Speaking of unsightly lumps and bulges,I never should have encouraged you to speak You tripe talking troll write down what you know. That should leave you with a plenty of free time.The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror.And the Krauts with incredible Joy You come like beggars for help and speak ill of those that so stupidly come to help you.Ask the French who gallantly carried the fight on as Brook/Monty led the great skedaddle.That's why the French Generals de Gaulle,Leclerc, Juin were eqiupped by and came back with the Americans.Not only that but the French like woman and well you and Monty....who knows
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  1600. After Vandeleur and his brother stopped for a dip,then he entertained some tart by a fireside with some wine.Seems Joey was spinning a yarn after his faffing was broughtto light
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  1601. No,No he didn't but it was a gallant effort by 1st para unlike Monty or "LORD" Carrington.He blocked the North end and was in adjacent houses/buildings they were not on the bridge proper.Graebners' SS got past in APC,Halftracks and Self propelled 20 mm AAs that drove elements of the 82nd off of the Nijmegen Bridge on the 1st day
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  1602. All the so called field marshall had to do was come up with a feasible plan,he wasn't even there either.Oh BTW XXX Corp got 7 miles the 1st day
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  1603.  @jrd33  truth,the 82nd actually had the most objectives and the furthest apart.There were landings 3 straight days on the LZs with the artillary coming in on day 2 ,maybe 3.with out resupply they were done.That's why over all this was a failure
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  1604. major Tony Hibbert was there and said it happened,Monty blamed anyone he could .Saying he thought the Canadians could open up Antwerp .When the were not specifically ordered to do so until after the operation failed - MONTY GARDEN
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  1605. Gavin never suggested that,it was from British intel.Browning and Gavin thought it possble as anyone would that a good sized forest could be hiding large amounts of armor as the Gerries had to hide from allied air attacks.And considering the Germans attacked twice out of the Ardennes in '40 & '44 this would make perfect sense.Though it wasn't in the 82nds Operational orders or pre-battle plans
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  1606. No he isn't Monty owns this and didn't show up to direct his own debacle. Bernard bloviated he'd be in Berlin and it never came close to Arnhem because the same XXX Corp when they finally got their arses to Nijmegen stopped.This hemorraged disaster from many different places.And a Junior officer isn't taking the fall for a so called Field Marshall - that really wasn't. The 82nd had the most objectives and spread the furthest apart.The fact that XXX Corp only made it 7 miles the 1st day tells you everything you need to know - there went the element of surprise .As Model/Student started bringing in by rail armor/artillary/men/material from the near by Ruhr
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  1607. You are asuming all the commanders were idiots then - you wouldn't guess enemy tanks were in that Forest after the 1st invasion in 1940 ? that was massive and not hindsight.And the 82nd couldn't hold the bridge for the 3 days as they didn't have any artillary yet ,they were still on foot. As The Reconnaissance Battalion, a 40-vehicle unit commanded by Victor Graebner's 9th ss advanced and drove them off.He had APCs with mounted mg-42s and halftracks with some 20mm AA Guns mounted and some self propelled artillery against foot soldiers with Thompson's and M-1s. Do you know what is like carrying up/down the M-30s or 150 lbs of mortar tubes/base plus ammo from the Groesbeek Heights to the bridge and parts of the city then back again as the LZs got attacked numerous times sometimes simultaneously.TIK gleefully glosses over this and the setbacks leading up to Nijmegen .Hell in JOhn Frosts book he stated had he known he would have brought AT guns and left the mortars Even if XXX Corps tankers displayed the same initiative moving down the road as the 82 nd did crossing the Waal OM-G still would have stalled.Antwerp's port of supply wasn't open because Monty ignored warnings by Brooke/Tedder/Ramsey to do so.Gerries would have reorganized North of the Bridge with reinforcements tactfully sent by Model from the near by Ruhr. Field Marshall Walter Model didn't drop either of the Arnhem/Nijmegen road bridges - because he planned on using them - that's a Commander ,however had he dropped them immediately,then what?Game/set/match.And had any stragglers made it over it was one choke point it would have been Dunkirk II as Model was bringing tanks/troops/artillary/materials in from the near by Ruhr - but some here like to dabble in delusion. Jim Gavin's decision to secure his drop zones, and re-supply probably prevented the US 82nd Airborne division from duplicating the British 1st Airborne's fate. Seems like Monty forgot that basic fact of Warfare. TIK ignores the reality of the situation as he is a Monty fanboy The commander who underestimates his enemy ( especially when his own intelligence apparatus is ringing alarm bells ) is a fool. He criticize General Jim Gavin of the 82nd Airborne for taking the time to secure his drop zones, and supplies before attempting to take the Nijmegen bridge. That is just stupid criticism from people who benefit from 20/20 hindsight. What do you call an Airborne soldier with no secure drop zones and no re-supply? You call that Airborne soldier a corpse, or a prisoner of war. Unfortunately the fate of the British First Airborne It became apparent rather quickly to the commanders on the ground that the intelligence regarding the positions, strength, and composition of enemy forces they had been given by Monty's HQ was worthless. Gavin did the only thing he could have based on the realization that Monty's intelligence on enemy forces was based on a fantasy assumption.General Gavin secured his drop zones, and his ability to resupply his men while they were fighting behind enemy lines. Market Garden resulted in the destruction of most of the British First Airborne division. Then less than 2000 or so who escaped from Arnhem had to abandon almost all of their equipment. Market Garden resulted in the loss of one Allied Airborne Division, Jim Gavin's decision to secure his drop zones, and re-supply probably prevented the US 82nd Airborne division from duplicating the British 1st Airborne's fate
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  1608. Tool Time Tabor with out your drop Zones you're the 1st para - DZs count, a real Field Marshall say some one like Model or even Student would have figured that out. Blame doesn''t land on a jr officers head 54 miles down a single highway when tanks are getting blasted right out of the chute. and the over all commander is sitting it out - if you believe that you are either a moron,TIK or Little Villa. XXX Corp neither arrived on time or in force (like Horrocks promised) - and they had tanks. They only had 1/3 of their division dropped the 82nd had the most objectives and spread the furthest apart. There were 17 Rail & Road bridges over 13 canals and rivers. Try carrying over 100 pounds of Machine guns or mortar tubes/base plates ammo up/down the heights,to the bridge and into the city - then back,reality exists.Battles aren't fought on flat chess boards. The Groesbeek hts were attacked numerous times the 82nd responded. They also made the Bridge but were driven off by German armor(Graebners 9th SS) and fought in Nijmegen. Any army that ever held Nijmegen held the Heights. Monty and British armor screwed things to hell and Back.Monty wasn't there the Germans were.Kind of chicken shit don't you think - not showing up for your own operation?
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  1609. I would say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all.Ludendorf was right Lions led by jackasses.CLOSE? horse shoes and handgrenades. I'm not giving this fraud TIK any more Clicks.There are plenty of legitimate sources.He talks about New History or information. - it's not - it's facts he didn't bother to look up or deliberately ignored.Peruse these boards plenty of dialed in sources/posters tearing up his theories XXX Corp made it a whole 3 miles before Panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans halting the column.Again XXX Corp didn't didn't start until 2 pm then quit at 6 on the 1st day Monty not only didn't show up he admitted of course after the war Big Mistake.Horrocks liked nite attacks,yet didn't attempt one. To many objectives with too many moving parts and everything needed to go off with out a hitch.TIK has deleted previous attempts to link proof from legit websites The 82nd had nothing to do with Monty's poor planning and XXX Corps slow progress,or 43 wessex disappearance or the Germans still between Nijmegen and Arnhem that brought armor the 1st day across the Arnhem Road bridge.Try reading about Victor Graebner's 9th SS that brought APCs with mounted mg42s self propelled 20 mm AA guns and halftracks.that turned back back the 82nd and sure as hell would have turned you back.Ignore 50 miles of cock ups and blame you tanker boys.The 82nd fought in the CITY,Bridge and up and down the Heights.try carrying 100-150 lb equipment around to 3 different spots.field machine guns and mortar tube,base plate,ammo,etc.They didn't have artillary dropped until late the 2nd day Plenty went wrong south of Nijmegen down past Eindoven and well south to Valkenswaard and before there even,that that guys like Poulussen,Neilands,TIK ignore .the objective was to cross the Rhine,and the Port of Antwerp was needed for that.All else is bullshit to cover for this failure ..Monty the plug ignored directives from SHAEF to open Antwerp on September 4th on the 10th he sprung the idea to grab the bridges - and glory for himself.And IKE foolishly acquiesced to get him to do something - anything.But the rube really wasn't a Field Marshall like Model.The deep water port for supply was desperately needed as it is 499 miles from Cherbourg to Arnhem but sadly monty ignored it.Monty and Ike own this debacle - not the soldiers As a Dutch poster said - How come Field Marshall WalterModel and General Kurt Student were able to ferry tanks and troops across rivers/canals under the ever watchfull RAF,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November!!!. from his Memoirs, *Monty says: [quote] “My plan was to drive hard for the Rhine across all these obstacles, and to seize a bridgehead beyond the Rhine before the enemy could reorganise sufficiently to stop us. Montgomery Memoirs page 267; [quote] “The airborne forces at Arnhem were dropped too far away from the vital objective the bridge. It was some hours before they reached it. I take the blame for this mistake. I should have ordered Second Army and 1 Airborne Corps to arrange that at least one complete Parachute Brigade was dropped quite close to the bridge, so that it could have been captured in a matter of minutes and its defence soundly organised with time to spare. I did not do so” [end quote]* From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 365-66 In fact the fundamental concept of Operation Market Garden defied military logic because it made no allowance for anything to go wrong,nor for the enemy's likely reaction .In short the whole operation ignored the old rule that no plan survives 1st contact with the enemy.Montgomery even blamed the weather not the plan,even asserting the plan was 90% successful because they got 9/10ths of the way to Arnhem From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p310-311 101st AB Division Objectives -Eindoven -Son Bridge -St Oedenrode Bridge -Veghel Road and Rail Bridges -Wooded Areas 1st AB Division Objectives -Arnhem -Arnhem Road Bridge -Pontoon Bridge -Railway Bridge -Wooded Areas 82nd AB Division Objectives -Nijmegen -Hueman Bridge -Malden Bridge -Hatert Bridge -Honinghutie Road & Rail Bridge -Grave Bridge -Nijmegen Road and Rail Bridges -Groesbeek Heights DZ/LZ The 82 nd had the most objectives and the furthest apart.Had Either Monty,Maj. General Roy Urqhart,Gen.William Lathbury made arrangements to secure 1st para drop zones perhaps they don't get slaughtered - that's how important they were/are and less than half the 82nd was dropped at that time
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  1610. @Johnny Carroll Nor were they in the order of battle either that Knob Poullusen is the one who pushed that..It does make sense as the German Army in'40 & '44 came charging out of the Ardennes and the Hurtgen was the real deal also as Bradley and Hodges found out.But bernard owns this debacle - Monty Garden
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  1611.  @ToolTimeTabor  Good Post
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  1612. @Johnny Carroll Every army that held Nijmegen held the heights.Put an 88 or two up there and see what would happen. I know of a veteran 82nd akgeronimo501 he was in the 1st Gulf war. Like me he doesn't like to give these channels clicks as for the most part it is Monty Propoganda.but here's a link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMxgSp8fors&list=PLNSNgGzaledijzf6rImOMYkXr5l530qd9&index=11 you go to the 3/8 board also he opens up a can of whoop ass on some of the revisionists
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  1613. @Johnny Carroll Thanx I'll try that.but even the Tommies knew after they got ust 3 miles when Panzerfaust teams took out 9 Shermans. Ha ya know mine leave occassionally to.Maybe someone has their minds made up & doesn't like the truth trolling them
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  1614. @Johnny Carroll Good work From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p310-311 101st AB Division Objectives -Eindoven -Son Bridge -St Oedenrode Bridge -Veghel Road and Rail Bridges -Wooded Areas 1st AB Division Objectives -Arnhem -Arnhem Road Bridge -Pontoon Bridge -Railway Bridge -Wooded Areas 82nd AB Division Objectives -Nijmegen -Hueman Bridge -Malden Bridge -Hatert Bridge -Honinghutie Road & Rail Bridge -Grave Bridge -Nijmegen Road and Rail Bridges -Groesbeek Heights DZ/LZ. The 82nd had the most objectives spread widest apart Read Buckingham's Fine 500 page Arnhem.He mentions on the WW2 Podcast how there were 17 Rail & Road bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals - and since it was 1 Road everything needed to work.Of course as Helmut Von Moltke's stated in 1880 that "no plan survives contact with the enemy"
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  1615.  @ToolTimeTabor  Tool Time regardless they still could remember the onslaught that came out of the woods in May/June in 1940.Even though Gavin doesn't mention it being a concern a woods that size would raise eyebrows/questions to you or i had we been there.But hanging on to the DZ on the Heights was paramount other wise they suffer the same fate as 1st Para
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  1616.  @ToolTimeTabor  He should have insisted to scap the the whole plan - as Oddball said - "Wasted trip ,Baby"
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  1617. It was questioned at the time by the Dutch military advisers - remember the Dutch? They advised swinging west then north.Going down a single elevated lane 70 miles with polder marshes on both sides and no room for manuever evidently got you flunked at their military academy. And ULTRA was picking up radio dispatches traffic there in real time
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  1618.  @ToolTimeTabor  AGREED, it was a ridiculous list to begin with and shouldn't have been considered let alone launched.Bettle-Smith,Freddie,Deguingand,Dempsey,Alan Brooke,Admiral Ramsay were against it.IKE went along just to get Monty to do something - anything
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  1619.  @ToolTimeTabor  Ya know what's alway just cracked the hell out of me?The revisionists argument acting like if small detachments somehow made the otherside of the Arnhem Bridge they are home free - NOPE.The very few tanks/troops get blasted back into the Rhine or taken prisoner. As the Gerries had and actual Field Marshall Model in person directing men and materiel coming in fresh from the nearby Ruhr by rail. DUNKIRK II- The Rhine - that's what happens Hell "LORD" Carrington put on the skids when the Gavin/Tucker/Cook/Burris wanted to take the fight forward after the Waal Crossing.They didn't just lose 48-51 KIA and 138 seriously wounded to meet up,shake hands and play grab ass. This plan was so bad it never factored in Model dropping the Bridge.Ya know why he didn't?He had plans to counter attack- that's confident man.If he blew it at the 1st sight of transports(and it was wired to do so) game,set,match.Wasted trip for 34,000 troops.Good luck to the armored columns trying to turn around on that skinny thread of a road.The so called Brain trust didn't listen to the Dutch Army Advisors
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  1620.  @ToolTimeTabor  Great story, outside of the polder marshes it was my understanding it was unusually wet autumn and of course the Gerries flooding everything on top of that.Well i believe the Dutch at least knew their way around Holland so might have given the locals a listen.And every nation has arrogant fools but they certainly suffered specially following Market Marden which decimated Arnhem,Nijmegen and parts of Eindoven.Also the horrific Honger Winter that followed,that was brought on by OMG A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies. When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Canadian Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions.He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays.The truth was that the operation was too ambitious . In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944:p. 219* "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. *I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp* The Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 365-66 In fact the fundamental concept of Operation Market Garden defied military logic because it made no allowance for anything to go wrong,nor for the enemy's likely reaction .In short the whole operation ignored the old rule that no plan survives 1st contact with the enemy.Montgomery even blamed the weather not the plan,even asserting the plan was 90% successful because they got 9/10ths of the way to Arnhem General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops .At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after The Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend. "With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions".General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted
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  1621.  @ToolTimeTabor  good observations/insight Forgot one very important point - the enemy gets a vote.Also the air drops - 600 more than D-Day,the days were over 2 hrs shorter than June,and the flights being much longer into upper N.E.Netherlands damn near to the Reich and shortage of trained flight crews with wholesale bombing of the Reich going on.All of that threw one hell of a wrench into the gears,nights were moonless so they couldn't have tried that either.What's the old country saying - too many pigs for the tits. I would have listened to Ramsay/Smith/Tedder open a big port then figure it out.
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  1622.  @ToolTimeTabor  I had read that the 1st to drop the UK pathfinders some got taken prisoner and their radios taken.Not sure how that worked/factored into things.Also supposedly a US Glider crashed and the plans were on board.Also read that Model at 1st he thought the operation was for him.Did not take long for him to figure they were going for the Bridges. So with units spead to hell and back it just became pretty reactionary and spontaneous. As Nathan Bedford Forrest said 75 yrs earlier get there 1st with the most .In other words seize the initiative,secure interior lines,bring superior force to bare - all sound Military Maxims
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  1623. Burns you Hack I just left the actuall page,Book,author and quote up thread.Would you like it again? You edit then slide your nonsense and novels into the narrative.Would you like to challenge me on that?With monty's admission it was his mistake?
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  1624. UNITED STATES ARMY IN WORLD WAR II The European Theater of Operations THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN By Charles B. MacDonald CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY UNITED STATES ARMY WASHINGTON, D.C., 1993 P157 General Browning, was "clear and emphatic" to the effect that the division was "not to attempt the seizure of the Nijmegen Bridge until all other missions had been successfully accomplished In his formal order General Browning stated- "The capture and retention of the high ground between Nijmegen and Groesbeck is imperative in order to accomplish the Division's task."
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  1625. Irving Burns, Bernard and the Burns Family had 4 years to come across the channel. Irving Burns - FOUR FULL YEARS - 30 miles,45 million man Empire WTF .Tell your tales to the subservant saps in Trinidad and Tobago 😂
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  1626. imagine what this yapping jackel Boy Burnie would say about IKE if had lost say 200,000 @ Dunkirk or 81,000 @ Singapore or 25-30,000 @ Tobruk but who the hell has losses like that? 😋
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  1627. Burns Gavin unlike your slappies never got driven into the channel you carnival barker making crap up and hoping some lopsised lumps as vacant as you believe it. Burns your pants are filled again - ring the nurses station and get this taken care of
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  1628.  @johnburns4017  Leave the link not your bastardized,altered version of it. Like you an altered version of an adult.TIK has deleted that link for what ever reason - thus I copied it or anyone not named Burns could look it up themselves
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  1629. TIK had deleted a US Army link twice but the Lorain Campaigne is available in PDF form
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  1630.  @ToolTimeTabor  His source is his ample backside - Burns Big Book ofBritish Bollocks. He has been busted repeatedly posting fabrications hoping some one as bent and broken believes it and hopes they don't look it up .By the time you smell burns he's off to spew his drivel elsewhere else.Monty got a little rough in the tub with him so he's erratic and shows signs
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  1631.  @ToolTimeTabor  Share these with precious Alan Brooke's own words and Monty admitting it from his memoirs.Rick Atkinson a Pullitzer Prize Winner even chimes in,where as we know Johnny just pull it "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely...." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp.He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery - based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for him was very weak
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  1632.  @johnburns4017  babbled: I never said all 82nd men were cowards --------------------------------------------- repeatedly here and elswhere you called them a disgrace.That mantle lays at the feet of Montgomery unlike an actual Field Marshall Walter Model who showed up to direct operations in person.Your other problem besides mental illness is referring to plugs like Carrington who went no further than Lent where the 82 crossed to hook up and take the fight in - he certainly isn't a LORD - there's your delusional problems right there
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  1633.  @ToolTimeTabor  also from a tactical level there was much going wrong well south of Nimegen even Eindhoven. Horrocks and Vandeleur on the 17th not moving until 1400(2 pm) when the planes flew over then stopping at 1800 with daylight left you can start digging there.Vandeleur and his cousin stopping for champaigne and a swim with some reporter tart.Also Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start.The 1st day XXX Corps made a whole 7 miles
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  1634. Irving Burns - better bodies than yours were pulled from the Hindenburg and that's left you resembling Churchill after a bad nite. But you have to get that massive head wound looked at before the flies pounce
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  1635. @Johnny Carroll I've read some of that on a US Army website but sure I'll give it a look.Is that on your home board? I hardly go to mine so not real clear on navigating the sites
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  1636. @Johnny Carroll Is there a focus/zoom? can't read that from afar from the notebook.I'll try again.Tried the video there's sound on the other vids but not those two
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  1637. I love quizzes What so called Field Marshall didn't cross the 30 Mile so called Channel for 4 FULL YEARS .It only took 16-20 days to leave? Having gotten driven from Norway/Netherlands/Belgium/France/Dunkirk? The same places the GIs never left,The French,Belgians,Dutch,Poles and Czechs would like to know .You're going to have to make up a whole bunch of wonderful new lies or people aren't going to want to go on reading. Oh I know your handler can't take you to the library because of the restraining order and the Ankle Monitor so have him look this up for you
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  1638. Did you read those direct quotes I left up thread or were you to tired reaching for another beer? Irving Burns ,your novels have been so badly battered about they belong next to Monty's military plans. Stick to pillow fights at least those pummelings don't hurt as much
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  1639. Irving Burns I thought you might have an expiration date. It's nice to see you taking a break from taking a break
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  1640. You have a particular faculty of realizing hallucinations. Did the nurses confiscate your Magazines again Johnny?Answer that one,maybe Bernard took them up to the Netherlands with him.Oh that's right he never showed up there. 🤣
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  1641. Pretty much everywhere the lech sashayed.Caen/Falaise/Monty Garen/Rhine Crossing for sure.Say did you come across D-Day Daddy?
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  1642.  @johnburns4017  Specially with delinquint rubes like you who cound't defend from a cold
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  1643.  @johnburns4017  you lampshade you are realizing hallucinations again. Your piss poor atomic program was infiltrated by commie goons. Philby the leader read up on the Cambridge 5,rather have the nurses at the home do it for you. No wonder your neighbor had a dog named Monty he left steaming piles all around just like you
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  1644.  @arkoa0000  1st off britain never payed back loans to the US Treasury for WW1. Also they mined diamonds in S. Africa and gold in India while using their soldiers as sand bags - that's John Burns for you
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  1645.  @briancurran2988  if you knew so much about the Pacific why were close to 1 millions GIs stationed in Australia during the war while the Crown was no where in sight? And using their soldiers for N.Africa and Burma? And the IJF were in New Guinea threatening and in fact bombing the Port of Darwin. Do tell ,the US knew war was a possibility but they had not yet issued a delarartion of war
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  1646.  @johnburns4017  babbled: A part of the exchange was that Britain would impart technology All given to the USA. 💩 --------------------------------------------------- This ones barking you are are going to have to come up with a lot of wonderful new lies, or people just aren't going to want to go on reading. You must stop reading Burns Big Book of Bollocks .You rubes weren't trusted, or allowed around the brilliant Manhatten Project - no offese against you amatuers. Of course your crappy sham of a nuclear program was already infiltrated by Philby and the Cambridge 5 commies. The rest we already had that,all of it. German immigrants brought much of it with them superchargers, radar. Reginald Aubrey Fessenden was a Canadian-born inventor of sonar, who did a majority of his work in the United States and also claimed U.S. citizenship through his American-born father. So you are full of shit there as well and expected. Of course you could tell us nothing about mass production or about flying either but you knew that. Many European scientists stopped on the island for a cup of coffee before heading to greener pastures. Radar was deleoped by German named Heinrich Hertz. This is why frequency is the rate at which current changes direction per second is measured in hertz. Another Burns theory crashes and Burns 🤣🖕 Wilfried Gehl, Walter Pepperl, and Ludwig Fuchs—the inventors of the world's first inductive proximity sensor in Manheim Germany. Wilhelm von Siemens developed a temperature sensor based on a copper resistor. Another one of your robust theories debunkedThe proximity fuze was developed through British and American cooperation in the early stages of World War II. It was first used against ground troops in the Battle of the Bulge (1944). Perfected right down the road in Dayton Ohio Any other gems you'd like to share with the congregation you Poultroon 🚀🚀
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  1647. Arnhem.Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes:'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ From Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle.There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed.We knew what even a handful of Germans could do - they were so damned efficient. As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said "Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem" Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.” "He had made an awful mistake. I didn't like him at all." Leo Major, the most decorated Canadian soldier of WWII pages 2 and 3 https://web.archive.org/web/20150204042341/http://www2.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=fbcc446c-231f-4781-940a-3ebc3dee9f94&p=2
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  1648. If you don't mind a stroll thru the land of make believe then yes
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  1649. looked past it and cherry picked is more in line with the truth
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  1650. Monty wouldn't alter the plan,even Dempsey suggested it to him .Cornhole you've lied once - that has been continuously
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  1651. General Bittrich's men captured the British pathfinders during their pre-drop and took their radios and listened in on EVERYTHING
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  1652.  @robertwaid3579  Good Post but with his head up Bernards back side I don't think he heard you
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  1653. Pulling opinions out of your backside to get your mongrel Monty off of the hook "I personally gave an order to Jim Gavin that, although every effort should be made to effect the capture of the Grave and Nijmegen Bridges as soon as possible, it was essential that he should capture the Groesbeek Ridge and hold it—for … painfully obvious reasons …. If this ground had been lost to the enemy the operations of the 2nd Army would have been dangerously prejudiced as its advance across the Waal and Neder Rhein would have been immediately outflanked. Even the initial advance of the Guards Armored Division would have been prejudiced and on them the final outcome of the battle had to depend." Lt Gen Browning to Maj Gen G. E. Prier-Palmer, British Joint Services Mission, Washington, D.C., 25 Jan 55, excerpt in OCMH."
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  1654. Burns speaking of being other people - tough one so you might want to ask: Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1655. Um no repeate Ramsey along with 200 other men organized the amphibious landing.Many GIs from the Pacific as they has performing exactly that for 2 &1/2 years by then. Monty - never - but he had 6 months to plan CAEN and ran it into the sand immediately. His star was justifiably fading by then. Britain had much better Officers
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  1656.  @johnpeate4544  how clever you rewrite your bollocks in italics and put red diamonds next to it. Here I FIFY 💩💩💩 Try one of the other aliases on your account Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 Type this into the search field of Youtube The Friendship Between Britain And The USA | Warlords: Churchill vs Roosevelt | Timeline go to 2:30 then listen. Churchill emphatically stated his plan for winning the war was "I shall drag in the United States.” Intelligence at the Top,by Sir Kenneth Strong Montgomery was letting Bradley's Army lead the way out of Normandy because the Americans could replace their casualties and the British could not .PM Churchill also talked to Eisenhower about the problem the British were having. Churchill called Eisenhower on the telephone and asked him ".....if it was possible Eisenhower to avoid too many British casualties" My Three Years with EisenHower,By Harry C.Butcher,p.632 - August 4,1944 "At the SHAEF forward War Room last evening,I learned that the Allies had captured some 78,000 Germans,of which the British captured 14,000.The remainder falling into American hands.This information was reported on August 1st.Since which we have captured 4,000 a day" A General's Life,by Omar Bradley and Clay Blair,p.275 Monty launched Goodwood on July 18,It was preceded by a massive air attack.Some 1,700 heavy bombers and plus 400 medium bombers dropped nearly 8,000 tons of bombs on the German front. On the afternoon of July 20 when the rains turned the battleground into a sea of mud,Monty, declaring himself well pleased with the results of Goodwood,abruptly halted it. It had gained six miles south of the city. The cost had been appalling:4,000 casualties and 500 tanks - over 1/3 of all the tanks in Monty's command​. Monty oversold Goodwood and his preliminary "ballyhoo" was too exultant and a disastrous miscalculation had raised expectations to an almost giddy level and then dashed them.IKE,Bedell-Smith, Tedder and the whole of SHAEF was furious with Monty Triumph and Tragedy:The Second World War, by Winston Churchill Winston S Churchill to General Montgomery:"For my own secret information,I should like to know whether the attacks you spoke of to me,or variants of them,are going to come off .It certainly seems important to the British Army to strike hard and win through otherwise there will grow comparisons between the two armies that which will lead to dangerous recrimination The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page407 Churchill had cabled Montgomery "I greatly fear the dwindling of the British Army is a factor in France as it will affect our right to express our opinion upon strategic and other matters" From Winston Churchill dot org After 6 June, Montgomery makes no mention of his initial failure to take the city. Monty’s failed plan to capture Caen on D-Day stalled the entire Normandy campaign. Monty had always made it perfectly clear that D-Day required an initial aggressive thrust that gained more ground and broke through the German defenses to take Caen. None of Montgomery’s pre-invasion planning,reports, or presentations ever suggested that the British would stop short of attacking and quickly taking Caen
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  1657. Johnny have they removed your ankle monitor so you can visit a library and learn?
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  1658. IKE should have never strung bernard along - letting him believe he was an actual Field Marshall
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  1659.  @amaranathanvpathmanathan3608  Burns actually got the Full monty from the Field Marshall.Bernard admitted after the war "a bad mistake on my part".Now wether he meant playing around with burns or Market Garden - who can say
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  1660. John Boy did Monty take your Nudie Magazines up to Arnhem with him.Oh that's right he never made it up there!!!🤣
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  1661. What did they do,all that time and Caen,Goodwood,Epsom,Falasie, bogged down.Typical Limey bragging about failure
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  1662. Bullshit some of Monty's finest work since Dunkirk - ROTFL
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  1663. Never happened he almost got relieved for suggesting such .You poor trampled cabbage leaf Monty was awful at commanding. Terrible. As in, no fooking good.He held a a shoulder and wanted to with draw from that.Churchill even address parliament because the rancid runt attempted to take credit when in fact he wanted to flee as usual.Montgomery's skills and abilities were grossly inflated by the British press and political leadership The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror.And the Krauts with incredible Joy From the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 469 General Joe Collins in a memorandom on Wednesday December 27,laid out 3 options and endorsed "Plan no 2" a strong attack from the north on St Vith,complimented by 3rd Army's lunge from the south. Montgomery hesitated,suspecting that Runstedt'had enough combat strength for another attack that could punch through to Liege.Collins thought not."nobody is going to break through these troops" he told Montgomery"this isn't going to happen."If the Allies failed to attack closer to the base of the salient,they risked leaving a corridor through which retreating Germans could escape, Collins told the Field Marshall "you're going to push the Germans out of the bag,"Collins added,"just like you did at Falaise." CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS,Transcribed By Major Gary Wade "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks, also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce.But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything. Monty was a good general, I've always said, but never a great one. The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61*Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us He could have done it with out any danger to himself.Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed"
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  1664. Pierre Burns You've done enough drugs to send sniffer dogs into early retirement.After the GI's arrived Monty never got his sorry arse tossed into the Channel again - imagine that.Oh obviously your circuit board has a bad wire so since you can't remember facts here is another one BTW Pierre Burns it's 80 yrs starting this week that Monty led one of the largest retreats in Military History @ Dunkirk.It's also 75 years ago this week for Victory in Europe. See what a Super Power can do in just 5 yrs Even correcting all the damage done by the crumbling crown and it's rancid runt got themselves into - You're welcome Giovanni Burns
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  1665. It appears someone has hacked puddles account,they obviously have a better grasp of WWII History whoever they are
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  1666. Everywhere,specially from SHAEF you misguided waif.Didn't show up for the fight or the after battle Council where all of HQ wanted a piece of the pathetic prat
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  1667. Yes VILE you post Wall to wall rubbish,admitting you have a problem is the 1st step in rehabilitation
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  1668. From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary.Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  1669. He planned the whole thing IKE and everyone else wanted Antwerp open.Monty shit the bed every operation in Normandy .Monty Garden was unrealistically ambitious and just too many variables factoring in for things to go wrong. Ambition over reaching capability. Ike knowingly kept the British relevant in order to keep them in the alliance so that American soldiers would not have to shoulder the entire casualty burden on the Western Front. Burns prattles tripe & his faulty premise to get his hero off the hook.He takes creative license with actual history
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  1670. Monty couldn't sort his shorts.He wanted to withdraw and Joe Collins ignored him and went on the offensive and Monty told "joe what ever you do don't attack down just one road" - wonder where he got that idea
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  1671. More bs from the aston revisionist archives,Monty owns this debacle
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  1672. Gavin couldn't wait for the over 3 days it took the plodders to arrive.Hell even "LORD"Carrington at least showeed up,he sat but at least he showed up unlike the tosser Monty who said he'd be in Berlin and never made Arnhem.Bugle Boy - nothing more - unlike Model - a real Field Marshall
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  1673.  @johnlucas8479  good post, just reading that so much in this video that is left out - probably to get you know who off of the hook During Overlord there were 900 C-47s/Dakotas flights that flew - only 4 of 10 planes had a navigator. That's one of the reasons the troops were dropped all over the place. The Air Corps were short of trained crews ground crews and navigators .So 3 months later the days were literally over 2 hrs shorter but there were now 1600 planes and longer flights flying and they were still short on all of the above - moreso now with stragegic bombing in full swing - they needed them(Navigators) over Germany.And that time period there was no moon,so they aboslutely had to fly during the day So 80 % more planes and longer flights during shorter days And Monty obviously not a real Field Marshall *knew all this but reaching for glory went a head anyway*. - Hopefully they remove Burns ankle monitor at the HOME so he can go to the Library
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  1674. Monty owns it ,hatches a paln and din't show up,TIK uses any sketchy source that gets Monty off of the hook,Read RW Thompson,Corelli Barnett,Niall Barr,Dr Willian Buckingham,Rick Atkinson,Max Hastings,Antony Beevor to name a few.All peer reviewed and vetted none come to the conclusion of hanging this 70 mile debacle on a JR officer 60 miles down the road when the Column made it a whole 7 miles the 1st day - 11 hrs behind schedule and those numbers escalated as the snail's pace moved forward
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  1675. Read Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,he spells it all out such that even indoctrinated slappies like little villa can understand. He is Official historian of the Air Historical for the Royal Air Force, with responsibility for writing documented narratives on RAF operational activity. He has a PhD from King's College in London ---------------------------------- Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.256 The crucial link ups between airborne and ground forces was more problematic; they were interlinked and interdependent. So much that the failure to capture of just one objective could lead to the failure of the entire undertaking. Given that no large-scale airborne operation mounted by the Allies or Germans had ever previously secured absolute mission success, there was a strong probability that Market Garden would fail. Market Garden was a direct product of Montgomery's resolute determination to ensure that he beat the Americans and use the Allies enormous and expensive airborne Army . In the 3 weeks preceding the Operation the combination of circumstances led to the production of one airborne plan that was quite simply pointless(Linnet) and another that bordered on suicidal (Comet) Market Garden was founded on flawed suppositions, massaged intelligence, the neglect of past lessons and the acceptance of inumerable risks,which substantially reduced its chances of success even before it was placed in front of Eisenhower. The very decision to target Arnhem was highly questionable.The town was selected Montgomery was seeking to maximize the distance between his "narrow thrust" and the American axis of advance. Yet by striking out so far to the north he both opened up his eastern flank to counter attack and readily accepted the challenge of the Waal crossing. Which could have been avoided by choosing a bridging point further south. This of course is where Market Garden ultimately came to grief. The idea of conducting multiple lift operations against deep and well defended objectives was fundamentally unsound and can only be deemed a blunder of truly staggering proportions
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  1676. Right Army wrong unit what's your point little villa besides the one on your head
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  1677. Burns or Monty don't have a clue,but at least burns didn't get driven into the Channel
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  1678. Little Villa where was the hero Monty ?he wouldn't even respond to HQ as his plan rapidly came apert 3 miles from the start as Panzerfaust teams took out 9 Shermans stopping the column.And why did Carrington stop in Lent and go no further on day 3 as the Germans themselves noted.Oh that's right because they are British.And slappies like you refer to one as a Field Marshall and the other as a Lord 🤣 tell your twisted tales to the rest of Europe
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  1679.  @johnlucas8479  wish you wouldn't have went and done that,just when his meds were stating to balance out
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  1680. Go sit in the corner adults are talking over here.
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  1681. Have the neurologist there drain your cranium and relieve the pressure,you're more delusional than usual,if that can be imagined
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  1682. Not wrong answer The Europeans and the Americans can't stand the ineffective little creep. Are you Monty's swiss boy?
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  1683.  @johnlucas8479  John I've caught Burns repeatedly re-writing script claiming this or that author said it. He literally fashioned it to say what he wanted - he'll never give the page number as twice I had the book he claimed to be sourcing and pounded him with it.He just runs to another board and repeats it. He has lied once - continuously
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  1684. it wasn't the 9th SS with Victor Graebner sattacked the 82nd with APC's woth mounted mg-42s and self propelled 20 mm AA Guns that chopped up foot sodlies and some half tracks this artillery mounted
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  1685. Says the slappie that ignores Monty,who with the spine of a gummy never showed up.Then fessed up to his fault after the war. Any Army that ever held Nijmegen held the Heights,Kurt Student and Walter Model wanted 88s up there so Gavin was a fool for following Browning's order and tactical reason.Why don't you slappies quit reading your crown's coloring books and TIK is a cheer leader - nothing more
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  1686. Corny - put that thing out,you'll burn your fingers
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  1687. Never stopped you from posting wanker
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  1688. the berk's top general didn't like the plan From Carlo D'este,Decision in Normandy From the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable*1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed Nor did his Chief of Staff - can't make this up I tell you Max Hastings Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him The Village Ass keeps refuting himself with the stupidity of his own statements.None of the objectives were met you knob -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success British author of Military History, Max Hastings, states the following in his book, The SECRET WAR, Spies, Ciphers, and Guerrillas 1939 -1945 referring to Field Marshal Montgomery on page 495 “The little British field-marshal’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944.The same overconfidence was responsible for the launch of the doomed airborne assault in Holland on 17 September, despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, together with Field-Marshal Walter Model’s headquarters at Oosterbeek. Had ‘victory fever’ not blinded Allied commanders, common sense dictated that even drastically depleted SS panzers posed a mortal threat to lightly armed and mostly inexperienced British airborne units. Ultra on 14-15 September also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force 70 miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armor, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. The decision to launch Operation Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation OPERATION MARKET-GARDEN: ULTRA INTELLIGENCE IGNORED https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a406861.pdf
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  1689. Beevor has sources unlike Little Villa who ignores the fact Bernard never showed up
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  1690. Set the scotch down and go to bed,how do YOU spell sources? Quick Little villa before anyone else sees it 😆
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  1691.  @gordonsmith4884  huh,I didn't mention a battalion? And you assited Sir Antony? Were you with him in Russia in the early '90s when the Soviet Military Vaults were open to Western Authors/Historians?When he and Luba Vinogradova had taken Vasily Grossman's raw notes from when he was a special correspondent for the Red Star, the Soviet Army's newspaper, and edited and printed them? Beevor graduated from Sandhurst,served in the British Army,Lectured at Sandhurst,Cambridge,Princeton,University of London,Fellow in the Royal Society of Literature and a member of the Royal Historical Society.He's received the Pritzger Literature Award for Lifetime Achievement in Military writing and was knighted in 2017,there is more but you get the point.Gordon if i looked your profile up I'm sure all these and more will be included in it,Right?
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  1692.  @gordonsmith4884  OK - Little Villa is a juvenile ass that makes crap up and unfortunately has created other accounts to agree with himself.He has denigrated others with not only opposing views with the sources to back it up. You can see his attempt at humor using the word sauce - funny guy - said no one ever. Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1693.  @gordonsmith4884  Back at you the man(beevor) did his due dilligence much more so than this board that quotes Poullusen - A guy who was a photographer and couldn't identify an M-1 or neilands who wrote 90 books in 30 yrs - 30 of them on war.And he wrote under aliases.And i didn't look up your profile is this your real name?Have you published your own works?
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  1694.  @gordonsmith4884  Probably not as I'm in Ohio but not opposed to tossing back a few vessels and solving the world's problems if you were in the area.Have you read Buckingham's Arnhem,Hasting's Armageddon,September Hope,by McManus,The Guns at Last Light by Atkinson, It Never Snows in September by Kershaw, A Magnificent Disaster,by Bennett - all good efforts and worth the time
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  1695.  @gordonsmith4884  wrote:Helped on Kershaws --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Really - no B.S.? Did you interview any of Landsers that Kershaw contacted/interviewed when he was in Germany with NATO? What did you work on for him - just curious. How was the pay?
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  1696.  @gordonsmith4884  if you come to Ohio 4.60 right now for a gallon of gas.If the GIs then could see what these Corporations were going to do they would have turned their guns around 🚑🚑🚑
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  1697. If the Commies weren't more corrupt than the Oil Men I might ring them up
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  1698. because we were annoyed monty didn't have the balls to appear and his British boys sat in American tanks on their asses until 2;35 in the afternoon. Then getting stopped in only 3 miles then made it a whole 7 miles the 1st day. Had they left at 1st light like military exports all state they should have they could have made the bridge at Zon instead the Germans beat them and it got blown .So they sat for 18 hrs leaving paras of the 82nd fighting against half with mounted AA guns tracks and APC' with mounted MG42s. Even the gerries said the British drank too much tea
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  1699. No he didn't,not with supplies landing for 3 straight days.Is it in British DNA to lie thru your crooked teeth?How was he even handed a command he hadn't done shit since 1918
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  1700. Johnny read The Full Monty you are mentioned in it
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  1701. Mikey no sources AGAIN? you two are crimes against history,jump in the channel the big boys will be bye to pull you out
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  1702.  @davidrendall2461  good post
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  1703. There weren't enough planes thicko should have just given supplies to the Reds and finished the war sooner than faffing around with the backwards boob bernard - HE didn't even show up for MONTY GARDEN
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  1704. Go visit bernard's statue in Arnhem, oh wait - there isn't one. MONTY GARDEN
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  1705. Monty chickened out,Carrington stopped going no further. But in your island asylum they call Carrington "Lord". And the Yodeling Roach Bernard runs away and they call him "Field Marshall". Ya sure a failed marshmallow is what they meant. Now pick up your little plastic army men off the floor mum's coming home with the groceries. And be a dear and help her with them this time
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  1706. No failed Aspergers Field Marshall
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  1707.  @johnlucas8479  he has very bad reactions to research,reason and truth.His version like TIK's gets Monty off the hook
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  1708. MONTY! MONTY! MONTY!
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  1709. TIK is almost as far down the revisionist rabbitt hole as you are.Monty and carrington cocked up yet again.
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  1710. What so called empire with Montgomery as it's so called Field Marshall could not come across it's so called Channel for 4 full years?Turning the so called Big Three into the Big Two?And no peaking into Burns Big Book of British Bollocks,because they most certainly are not a family of so called warriors
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  1711. @Answer Questions unless your reading the texts yourself Burns has been caught altering them to say and interpret his twisted slant
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  1712. Burns Graebners men already got to the bridge in APCs,halftracks, and had 20mm AA self propelled gun that you conveniently forget to get Monty off the hook
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  1713. You knob it's been pointed out to you,even other British officers point right at the rancid runt.But keep talking your credibility is swirling the drain,actually it's already gone
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  1714. ENJOY https://www.history.com/news/operation-market-garden-failure-allies At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 In launching Market Garden with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here,Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies. From With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Cassel & Co., 1st edition, copyright 1966. ---Page 599 * " Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal."*
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  1715. And you resource Poulussen who is a novelist.He made the 1,000 Tank Story up and printed it.That was never in in the 82nds operational orders or prebattle plans .Like you he makes shit up and hopes it sticks
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  1716. From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. *From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: *--Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely.....
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  1717. Burnhole you've lied once and that has been continuously .It started as Operation Linnet the brits canceled it for good reason,then Operation Comet,they cancelled it again then your favorite poof bernard got his hands on the 82/101 AB it became Monty Garden. Read what Alan Brooke said,rather have your handler read it to you - Monty's fault ,the Air Marshall said it,the Admiral said it other Army officers said it.Ask your voices they'll even tell you
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  1718. I quote Historians you quote carnival barkers who use ouija boards.Have them turn up the voltage on your electro-shock at the home
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  1719. Bullcrap Monty said Ike was no soldier so IKE let him have his way and see what happened DISASTER.>No big surprise to the British Officers familiar with the rube
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  1720. you've done enough drugs to send sniffer dogs into early retirement.
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  1721. No one ever expects much from you and you never fail to disappoint them.
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  1722. From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later.  From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp  From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem"
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  1723. Johnny still mad the nurses took your magazines?
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  1724. The story never changed Carrington like you did nothing of significance
    1
  1725. And the truth remains the same
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  1726. Um no Monty and his old woman ways hadn't changed a bit
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  1727. That was the allies you distorian,nice spin though SHAEF MISSION IS MOVED TO HOLLAND GERMANS AGREE TO RELIEF MEASURES [Monograph entitled Relief to The Netherlands, dtd Jun 45, p. 43] After some disagreement, the Allies (An agreement between the United States, British and Netherlands Governments) provides and the Germans finally reached an accord on the terms under which land and water convoys could pass freely from the Allied to the German side. A North and South demarcation line was set up to demarcate a neutral zone for the supply trucks. Arrangements were made for identifying and escorting Allied ships. Other arrangements were concluded for the flight of relief planes. GERMANS AGREE TO RELIEF MEASURES [Monograph entitled Relief to The Netherlands, dtd Jun 45, p. 43] After some disagreement, the Allies and the Germans finally reached an accord on the terms under which land and water convoys could pass freely from the Allied to the German side. A North and South demarcation line was set up to demarcate a neutral zone for the supply trucks. Arrangements were made for identifying and escorting Allied ships. Other arrangements were concluded for the flight of relief planes.
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  1728. His pathetic plan good to see your still playing stupid.Perhaps you should change your username like Lyndon.Just ask Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1729. He demanded and got this then like you or you daddy was nowhere around
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  1730. Giovanni Johnny the meth finally caught up to you
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  1731. It seems you and history have but a fleeting acquaintance ou cowards could have stopped Hitler before he was capable of attacking Poland or France, but you didn't, you pretended that he would just go away. You asked for the U.S. to aid you in defeating what you created and they just that and they did this while simultaneously fighting one of the most vicious militarist empires in modern history, the Japanese, didn't they ? This is the very point Allied high Command(almost all British BTW) for opening Antwerp.Which was tactically correct.They thought the operation would succeed it stands to reason it would need swift resupply & reinforcement.Dragging crap all the way from Cherbourg wasn't going to fly.The victory virus - the gerries were done,war over by Christmas sort of thing was rampant .It seized Monty and everyone else.If that port was open then attempt an ill thought out charge up a 64 mile lane could be made.Monty wasn't disliked because he wasn't American.He was disliked because he was a condescending ass who played loose with the facts .Even Monty's staff was mortified by his inaccurate boasting.
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  1732. Your so called Crown should not have been misleading others into thinking you were some kind of Empire to be dealt with - this was obviously a Fabrication.The Germans knew it and the French/Poles/Dutch/Belgians/Czechs/Danes found out the hard way https://www.historynet.com/lost-prison-interview-with-hermann-goring-the-reichsmarschalls-revelations.htm Prison interview with RM Goring 1945 part two Hechler: What was the German estimate of American war potential? Did Germany hope to complete its European campaigns before the United States would be strong enough to intervene? Göring: As a break neared and it seemed that the matter had to be decided by war, I told Hitler, I consider it a duty to prevent America going to war with us . Hitler was of the opinion that America would not intervene because of its unpleasant experiences in World War I. Hechler: What unpleasant experiences? Loss of life? Göring: The United States helped everybody and got nothing for it the last time, Hitler felt. I used to tell Hitler that everything depended on our not bringing the U.S. over to Europe again In 1941 the issue became real, and the general opinion was that it was better to bear unpleasant incidents with the U.S. and strive to keep it out of the struggle than allow a deterioration of relations between the United States and Germany.
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  1733. Here you go asshole major Tony Hibbert from 1st Para - you dick apologising for the treatment of the poles https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2IArekP8ws Cornhole you are the arrogant argumentative one - idiot.
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  1734.  @T.S.Birkby  here you go facts they have bad reactions these yapping jackels * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2IArekP8ws*
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  1735. I'm sure this is just a coincidence - you gaggle of squawking twats.Tell your twisted tales to the rest of Europe - are you Monty's little Swiss Boy Cornell? Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1736. Johnny I'm reading all of the good pastings you're getting,you make shit up and John Lucas/Answers Questions,Seth 1422 and a host of others are embarrassing you there is aline forming.Mostly hammering monty and the Burns Brigade.Say Lucian try reading the FULL MONTY
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  1737. Johnny why don'yt you use your other names on your account - it did get embarrassing when you forgot to sign out as burns when answering for Pierre 🤣 Had Vandeluer and Horrocks on the 17th not waited until the planes flew over at 2:00 PM then stop at 6:00 PM that night with plenty of daylight left.Perhaps they arrive earlier but Joey was caught by a fire with some reporter tart sipping wine - he even admitted it. And Horrocks prattled on about night attacks but he never really attempted it.Horrocks watched and called the 82nds Waal River Crossing the boldest act he'd seen in the whole of the War.As General Dempsey had said "Not trying was a big problem in the 21st Army"
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  1738. Bull Crap Monty admitted it later - which is shocking
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  1739. Keep it up John you'll graduate from idiot to imbecile in a decade or two.Even Alan Brook pointed at the tired little fart From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem"
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  1740. Hit them where they ain't you rube.The Germans wanted Caen because of the road network.Monty they had already tossed off the continent already - no big deal Landsers.Monty bringing a gun to a knife fight
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  1741. Bullshit Monty later admitted he knew the tanks were their but didn't think they could fight.You air recon did a shitty job.Brian Urqhart noticed them
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  1742. Monty mucked it,did not have the dignity to even show up.Field Marshall?HA! that'd be Model
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  1743. Ladies and gentlemen... I would like to give you Exhibit A of "why you don't do drugs when you're pregnant" because unfortunately you may spawn something like whatever it was that just responded to my comment
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  1744. stop wearing sis's knickers and holding your breath till you pass out
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  1745. monty liked little boys is that why he was your hero
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  1746. This from a Hungarian poster, The Director who smacked these fallacies: Stop trifling with me your ignorance and emotional slobbering and learn about half wit malcontent Montgomery. Monty lost a lot. What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials, and air support. And then barely and poorly.
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  1747. Burns are you Monty's little Swiss Boy?
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  1748. IKE quit wet nursing Monty after this CAEN ,Goodwood,Falaise.Monty Garden.He would have been shot in Germany or Russia
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  1749. Good post yes the mutt later barked after this debacle he thought the Canadians could open up the Port of Antwerp. The arrogant arse never explicitly ordered them to do it until later and they could have used all the help he squandered 70 miles up the road
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  1750.  @thevillaaston7811 see you deleted a post there.Good to see it was display of your twisted tales. No it wasn't the Canadians opened it up go to the actual Arnhem boards. They don't spew the bile like you get from TIKs tongue here. Monty left my poor neighbors with out enough of anything after he abandoned the fight. Well no he didn't you actually have to show up in their 1st doesn't one? who realized the crown was using them as sandbags as did
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  1751. no O'Connor was unfortunately he had been hamstrung by being attached to Monty who really was ass.Gott,O'Connor and Auchinleck all much more capable commanders. Monty was a lying braggart and had the good fortune of arriving as the tide was turning in the allies favor. Courtesy of the RAF,RN,Bletchley Park(ULTRA) and US tanks/artillery and 110,000 troop Torch landings - none of which Montgomery provided
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  1752. Burns like Monty are/were pathetic liars .Burns perhaps you're dizzy from inlating your dates again UNITED STATES ARMY IN WORLD WAR II The European Theater of Operations THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN By Charles B. MacDonald CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY UNITED STATES ARMY WASHINGTON, D.C., 1993 P157 General Browning, was "clear and emphatic" to the effect that the division was "not to attempt the seizure of the Nijmegen Bridge until all other missions had been successfully accomplished In his formal order General Browning stated - "The capture and retention of the high ground between Nijmegen and Groesbeck is imperative in order to accomplish the Division's task."
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  1753. And Monty never showing up on the field of battle
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  1754. Unlike Little Villa - Ryan actually talked to German/British/American officers that were vets of the fight
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  1755. xxx corp were held back by Horrocks, the Vandeleur cousins and any members of your family
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  1756. Burns who was the fastest swimming away on the beach,which Uncle? Who ran up the gang planks the fastest,I mean besides Monty?
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  1757. Monty never showed up for his debacle,even carrington tried fighting for a minute or two. PATTON schooled the rube in Sicily when he took Palermo and Messina while Bernard faffed around even with Alexander giving him the inside highway124 and most of the supplies. Bernard only came across the Channel with the GIs,ya know after getting driven into it. And that was after 4 years. Even Stalin said to quit stalling. Tell your tales to the French who were taking bullets as Monty and your family took to the boats.You're welcome
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  1758. all these years sitting on your ample backside in front of the monitor left you....resembling Churchill after a bad nite. Your just pissed your sorry ass crown had to give back & give up the rights to all those sovereign nations you previously enjoyed plundering
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  1759. Ryan at least talked to veterans of the fight unlike rubes TIK quotes some 70 yrs after the fact
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  1760.  @OldWolflad  what difference does it really make,revisionists commenting 77 yrs after the fact who think they have an understanding of what happeneded when they weren't actually there? because collectively you get an accurate commentary/testimonials from those - there
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  1761. ​ @OldWolflad  the point is they were there and when they corroborate/agree it supercedes anything revisionist slappies 7 1/2 decades later have to say
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  1762. Give it a break - I'd take their word for it over yours and the rest of the damn board.If that was your dad/grand dad/uncle it would be etched in stone right next to the ten commandments. Taken as gospel but if the narrative doesn't work for certain people then those soldiers are just aged codgers lamenting the old days yes, I see it now all these guys got together 77 years ago,many got their asses shot up,just to conspire against you and other arm chair warriors. They agreed to keep their stories straight just to confound the future forums that didn't even then yet exist. Go to bed you're drunk. Drake,Nelson,Richard the Lionheart,Cromwell, Wellington never existed no matter what these historians and their crazy and wild imaginations come up with
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  1763.  @OldWolflad  No they don't many,accounts from Field Orders,AARs,dispatches,personal papers and such .Most national archives are accurate at least on things like the basic narrative/story line,and casualties - Killed,wounded.missing Sure some memoirs Monty's/MacArthurs for instance aren't worth the paper they are printed on because of their narcissistic tendencies to promote themselves by belittling and flat out telling lies of others.Look at the bibliography and footnotes where sources can be found, do your own research . Many boards this one for instance are outlets - Nationalistic hit piece based on jingoism,rooting interests and narrative rather than historical fact
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  1764.  @OldWolflad  *ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p,489​-490 -The primary reason MARKET GARDEN didn't meet it's stated aim was the Failure of XXX Corps to reach Arnhem on schedule or indeed at all. To a degree this is due to events out of the forces control, specifically the Germans destruction of the bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal at Son on 17 September and their stuborn defense of the South End of the Nijmegen Road bridge -The Guards Armored Division did not start off until 14:35 on Sunday 17 September,after the Market force had been delivered and therefore squandered 8 hrs of of precious daylight and they had banned movement during the hours of Darkness.This despite the fact they were suppose to cover the 15 miles or so to the 101st at Eindhoven by nightfall on the 17th which ocurred around 1900(7 PM).The GA did not reach Eindhoven until18:30 on 18 September despite minimal German opposition.Already behind schedule that was to see them 40 miles further to Nijmegen or onto the approach to Arnhem - and the additional time needed to erect a bailey bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal extended the schedule deficit to 36 hrs. -North end of the Nijmegen Bridge still in British hands and the 10 miles virtually undefended(to Arnhem).The repeated failure of the Guards Armored Division to press on after crossing the River Waal marks the point where the operation failed -Illness could explain Horrocks contradictions in his Garden orders and intentions Responsibility does not lie soley with him but with his superiors​ but with the patronage the British Army used to allot Senior command positions
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  1765.  @OldWolflad  Not really he has a PHD and the references to back what he said up.many don't like the narrative so the toss out opinion . The man was very well versed but Monty was no where around and that is indisputable,what was it - cowardice or shirking responsibilities? Largest para operation in the world up to that point and he conveniently gets scarce. And Monty had stated like some wild 48 hrs-96 hrs so 2-4 days to reach Arnhem = complete bollocks to cover for his operation that he did not show for!!! Not exactly something you can set your watch by
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  1766.  @OldWolflad  Don't care about his personality both he an MacArthur were both narcisstic liars and braggarts and that is a fact.They deflected blame that was theirs and took credit for actions they had nothing to do with.Beevor lists his sources.Many here deflect because it's a Monty cheering section that ignores his lies,deception and denegrating . Both he and Dug Out Doug should have been relieved,maybe they'd be shot in Russia or Germany
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  1767.  @paulrevere2379  Mikey is a fart in a wind storm and has a library of 3,500 books. If you don't believe me ask him
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  1768. Cornell put that thing out,you'll burn your fingers
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  1769. Yes he did if he didn't review his pre battle assessments then a major fail on his part - which it most certainly was
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  1770. Literally making shit up and rearranging contentwhat a sad example.Monty not only liked little boys he was a crappy commander.That's not what Buckingham said at - you lying HOUND 🤣 - I have the book right here,VILE's already crap reputation is swirling the drain again. Here I'll even type it for you - real slow like,have the nurses at the home there read it to you.Anyone reading this can fetch the book also and this is what they shall find ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p,43-44 the Fact that both US Airborne formations were misused as conventional infantry under British command for a cosiderable amount period after the Failure of MARKET suggests that the concern for US casualties did not figure highly in Montgomery's or Brownings calculations Large scale night landings proved not to be a success and september 17 put Market into a no moon period.Large scale airborne landings were simply not viable in moonless conditions Both parachutists and glider pilots required a degree of natural illumination in order to judge height ,orientation and degree of descent to avoid landing accidents, with lost/damaged equipment,injuries and probable fatalities ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p309 Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable .General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." Gavin did not have an answer for him The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate. *Yet Guards Armored did not move German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points.And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial The Grenedier Guards and the 2nd Battalion 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment were shortly to pay a high price for Brownings operational ineptitude From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent,if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced - From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line I should be charging you for this .So the the Germans,GIs and Irish Guards all agree but you know better?🤣 Hey Vile share with the congregation how "MUM" captured some German Prisoners - you and history have but a fleeting acquiantance
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  1771. THICKO how many times at least 50 over 4 yrs ignorant knob I've presented this From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 321-322 Montgomery's official biographer remarked that Monty's bid for the Ruhr via Arnhem had proved nothing less than foolhardy Staff officers at his tactical HQ had never seen "the Master" look so quiet and withdrawn.The sacrifice of the 1st airborne had been enough .Market Garden had all but used up the striking power of the 2nd Army and lead it into a blind alley where it could do nothing. Even Field Marshall Brooke has concluded that his strategy had been at fault."Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place",he wrote in his diary The failure to secure the Scheldt estuary leading to that vital port now stood out as a glaring lapse of judgement. history of war.org Three distinguished British officers who fought in Holland that winter and later became army commanders believed that the Allied cause could have profited immeasurably from giving a more important role to Patton. Lieutenant Edwin Bramall said: “I wonder if it would have taken so long if Patton or Rommel had been commanding.” Captain David Fraser believed that the northern axis of advance was always hopeless, because the terrain made progress so difficult. He suggests: “We might have won in 1944 if Eisenhower had reinforced Patton. Patton was a real doer. There were bigger hills further south, but fewer rivers.” Brigadier Michael Carver argued that Montgomery’s single thrust could never have worked: “Patton’s army should have been leading the U.S. 12th Army Group.” Such speculations can never be tested, but it seems noteworthy that two British officers who later became field-marshals and another who became a senior general believed afterwards that the American front against Germany in the winter of 1944 offered far greater possibilities than that of the British in Holland, for which Montgomery continued to cherish such hopes. World War II Database The Australian Chester Wilmot generally an admirer of British rather than American military conduct in north-west Europe, nonetheless observed brutally “what was at this stage the gravest shortcoming of the British army: the reluctance of commanders at all levels to call upon their troops to press of regardless of losses, even in operations which were likely to shorten the war and thus save casualties in the long run.” Freddie de Guingand, Montgomery’s Chief of Staff, confided to Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay on 28 November (according to the admiral’s diary) that he was “rather depressed at the state of the war in the west . . . the SHAEF plan had achieved nothing beyond killing and capturing a some Germans, and that we were no nearer to knocking out Germany . . . The higher direction of the war had been bad in the last 2 months . . . Ike’s policy was only skin-deep and anyone could deflect it.” Between the beginning of November and mid-December 1944, British Second Army advanced just ten miles
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  1772. Facts were left,the lover of lads was on the winning side,you repeat drivel.Monty got driven into the channel and ran away to the desert - all of Europe saw it and watched as he led your relatives up the gang planks as they were left the to cover the retreat.Why did it take him 4 yrs to come back when it took only 20 to leave?30 miles - Stalin pointed this out to Churchill that the USA were bringing men and materiel 3,500 miles across U-Boat infested waters and your simple silly man runs 3,000 away from Europe,away from the battles - AWAY
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  1773. Monty himself admitted it and Alan brooke blamed did to along with Admiral Ramsay .At least once a week for almost 4 yrs I've dragged out those quotes. You either have dementia or are a troll. AGAIN if I provide those quotes will you quit posting? Very provable - yes or no. Tell your twisted tales to the rest of Europe who witnessed the "evacutions" from Norway,Netherlands,Belgium,France,Dunkirk. Go vacation in Poland or better yet the Czech Republic waving your Union Jack and telling them how your crown did for them
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  1774. Will you quit posting?I've alread y posted them for you?Monty in one of his memoirs admitted it"a bad mistake on my part."Now answer the question will you get lost?Try telling Europe your D-Day Daddy 🤣 didn't get driven out of Norway,Netherlands,Belgian,France,Dunkirk took 20 days to get routed but 4 full years to come back...and with who holding your hand?This just keeps getting easier and easier
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  1775. Yet again I'll dig if you'll quit posting.Are you Lucian Treub? Read your friend's Hamilton's book.MOnty was blasted in to the channel where he apparently gave you a sponge bath.I'mean who calls anyone a Field Marshall after a Dunkirking,couldn't take Caen for 43 days and that was with 7000 tons of Aeriel Ordinence dropped - the heaviest of Normandy,Falaise flop,Monty Garden ya the envy of the Western Allies.Why wait 4 yrs sponge bath?It only took 20 days to "evacuate" 🚑.Hey tell the congregation about mum taking the Gerries prisoner....or did you forget that whopper
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  1776. It's your Funeral - Little Villa have your friend read these to you real slow.Alan Brooke.IKE,Air Marshall Tedder,Admiral Ramsay,SHAEF CoS Beddel Smith,And Monty's CoS Freddie Deguingand.I think you are going to have to come up with a lot of wonderful new lies, or people just aren't going to want to go on reading. Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219 "*...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From a PHD at King's College From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, *I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem With Prejudice, by Marshall of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder,Page 599 " Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal." Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10thPanzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him
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  1777. Sorry Villa reread that everyone knew monty was flicked away rather easily. Again how and when did the GIs end up in the channel? Churchill himself said his plan for winning the war was "I shall drag in the United States".or "it's no longer the Big 3,more like the Big 2&1/2" .What the hell are you even attempt to be splicing in?Those were direct quotes from the books that you don't read.You're reduced to making crap up,spinning then posting it .It's your only defense ,your tiny Island wasn't shit with out the country you've been badmouthing since 2013 or was that 2010 🤣🚑 - you lying hound. Tell it to Europe,they knew who wore the pants.Go vacationing in the Czech Republic or Poland and make sure you wave the Union Jack.You'll never get thru the pearly gates telling all those fabulous fibs . So let's revisit shall we, ✔did you visit those fine Czech folks like I told you to?Did you explain why your crown sold them out to the NAZI's in 1938 ? ✔Did you explain to the French why you left them covering your retreat in 1940 while Monty was boarding the boats and they were taking bullets? Kind of explains why they came back with the GIs and took Southern France while Winnie and Brooke wanted to keep faffing around in Italy. ✔How about the Dutch did you tell them why Monty left them on the horn of the Hun and the Hunger Winter that followed after killing over 20,000 of it's citizens Your Poof didn't have the nerve to show up for an operation that he bragged would take him to Berlin that took him backwords to Antwerp?Well Blisterhead,oh and stay off the merry-go-round 🤣 Brits always fight to last colonial, usually Australians.
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  1778. This from a New Zealander More Englishmen turned and ran than any other point in the war. I know it hurts - the truth often does. The Poms are next to useless whenever there is an armed force oposing them that is perhaps even half as strong in men and material. The poms' most glorious land battles have been historically fought agains tribesmen with spears. A more cowardly bunch of whinging endemic losers has never taken the field.Shameful - but expected. Montgmery was an uppity little nothing who thought rather too much of his own position in things. He was about as important as a soviet latrine digger. You've just read too many crowns own comics.Britain served as an unsinkable carrier for the French invasion - and that's about it.You seem to think that Britain was important to WW2 and that people like Montgomery were important characters. Wrong. Had Montgomery never graced a battle field the result would have been the same. The reality is that the UK and commonwealth played a very very small role in the whole war. You don't want to see it because history is not important to you. You want to watch rousing movies that make you think you won the war when in reality you barely had a part in it. As for Poland - look where it was in 1939 and where it was left by its allies in 1946. And Britain absolutely shat on poor old Poland...Do you really think Britain discharged its obligations by abandoning Poland to the Russians at the end of the war?? Good Grief your view is shallow. Also, what was it that Britain do before 1941? Not much. There was the phony war followed by the Dunkirk fiasco followed by the Battle of Britain - the most overblown event in WW2 and some skirmishes in North Africa. The weak whiney, whingey, broke Poms had a treaty with Poland. I don't think that treaty said 'we won't help you if you're invaded by Russia'. That means that the Poms abandoned Poland twice. Once at the beginning of the war for not going to war against the USSR when it invaded Poland pursuant to the Ribbentrop pact and then again at the end of the war when it didn't insist on Polish indepedence. Do you understand now when I say to was abandoned by the Poms??? Evidently, Little Villa a Colonial not real impressed with your yarns you've been spinning 🤣
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  1779. it's actually on TIKs original you tainted waif...and he's right.But being here since AT LEAST 2010 you should know that 😍
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  1780. You end up on the floor alot lucian,hey ever find you D-Day Daddy resume,how about mum who handcuffed all those heini's - good times🚑. Why don't you read up on lucian treub or head over to Prague and discuss the Munich Agreement or stop along Normandy and tell them how fortunate they were that you allowed them to cover your "evacuation"
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  1781. Thanx for sharing some of your more extensive research actually
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  1782. imagine what this yapping jackel little villa would say about IKE if he lost say 200,000 @ Dunkirk or 81,000 @ Singapore or 25-30,000 @ Tobruk but who the hell has losses like that?🚑🚑🚑
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  1783. So the hell what you're an Aussie maybe you should study the million GIs in your country. These are the guys that blamed ANZAC For Singapore, I'm sure you're on board with that.Try looking at a map,the GIs had to poke thru somewhere. The Germans were now defending their border. And the GIs still got it done and it's a war men die. My country doesn't have to apologize or answer to those who contributed so little. The Russians were taking horrendous casualties to. Poulussen was a photographer and has about had little sources but his backside. Had this assinine operation not stopped 12th army group the Germans perhaps don't set up all their blocking lines.There were 90,000 landsers inside 43 forts and the rivers in the area were flooded so bridging equipment had to be used. look what happened when Monty left Antwerp behind.Not real bright leaving a whole fooking army in your rear. As weather/distance kept sorties from being as needed. None of the objectives were met -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease.(Maybe if that's your family we don't hear from you) -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success
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  1784. No,Really
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  1785.  @billfix1150  you're right the other guy is a slappie
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  1786. They didn't say that Burns you again deliberately misprint and present it. The GIs came 3,500 miles to help a mongrel named Monty go the last 30 across the channel.He had 4 FULL YEARS to do so and couldn't/wouldn't. Britain had a chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940. She failed utterly and miserably. From that point onward, whatever Britain does and regardless of what happens to her - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US - in that order the 12th and 6th US Army groups were stopped and supplies allocated for Bernard who already showed his complete lack of command skills in Sicily,Italy,Caen,Falaise.And to prove they were no fluke - MONTY GARDEN,you're welcome.
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  1787. This is from Montgomery Memoirs Chapter 16 "My PLAN was to drive hard for the Rhine across all obstacles. para 4 I have already explained the direction of the thrust would be towards Arnhem and why. The essential feature of the PLAN was the laying of a carpet of airborne forces across five major water obstacles which existed on the general axis of the main road through Eindhoven to Uden, Grave , Nijmegen and thence to Arnhem" Clearly Montgomery stated it was his Plan not just an idea.How could anyone suppose that Montgomery and his army would suddenly change his spots and become the sort of force capable of conducting a fast,concentrated,mobile thrust into the heart of Germany. The Army Monty claimed he could lead to Berlin was created by him in his own ponderous and ever cautuios image - R.W. Thompson, - "Churchill and the Montgomery Myth" It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction
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  1788. Monty never showed up for his debacle,even carrington tried fighting for a minute or two. PATTON schooled the rube in Sicily when he took Palermo and Messina while Bernard faffed around even with Alexander giving him the inside highway124 and most of the supplies. Bernard only came across the Channel with the GIs,ya know after getting driven into it. And that was after 4 years. Even Stalin said to quit stalling. Tell your tales to the French who were taking bullets as Monty and your family took to the boats.You're welcome
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  1789. The only thing that supersedes your ignorance is your willingness to express it. America wasn't interested in getting involved in European Wars that had been going on for....ever.1st off the British got completely kicked off the continent after trying to cut a deal with the Reich - The Munich Agreement where the Crown agreed to let the Nazi's have the Czech Republic with out a fight. But when the Nazi's turn on the Crown you expect the USA to come to your aid, Unlike you did for the Czechs. For 4 FULL years Monty or the Brits didn't come across 30 mile wide channel until the GI's came 3,500 miles across the Atlantic to do it for them.Again - your welcome
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  1790. BTT sorry - Monty got schooled in Sicily,literally did zero in Italy after that then got recalled before embarrassing himself further. When he wasn't given all men/ and material like in the Deserthe was very static. Slim should have been called up Read Brute Force or Churchill and The Mongomery Myth or Desert Generals or The Second World War by Fuller - all British BTW
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  1791. This one's barking - Irving Burns The finest general in WW2. 🤣 said no one EVER. Have the men with the nets dial back the voltage and loosen your ankle monitor at the home there
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  1792. burnhole you've lied once and that has been continuously .Read what Alan Brooke said,rather have your handler read it to you - Monty's fault ,the Air Marshall said it,the Admiral said it other Allied Officers said it.Ask your voices they'll even tell you
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  1793.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  Hey Churchill stated Germany 1st when he met with FDR.Should have left Dorman-smith and the AUK alone
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  1794. Read Operation ThunderClap - bernard popped off he'd be 15 miles SE of Caen by D+2 or Sum such.I don't mind the setbacks - I mind the bullshit he started spewing when everything went awry.The German Panzers decided where they went not Bernard.And Maybe the Typhoons and Thunderbolts during the day.The Wehrmacht was there for the road network not Monty
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  1795. No,not really if not for ULTRA and the Hammering the the Air Forces and off shore Naval guns,Monty may damned near been relieved
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  1796.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  ya and he sacked Lumsden,Gatehouse and Briggs in the desert for stating many times they could have cut off Rommel's line of retreat in those 1,500 miles.Also for pointing out that Monty was going to run 6 regiments of tanks thru a mine field and they argued the Engineers and infantry had to clear a lane 1st. Monty sent one regiment instead and only 15 tanks survived.Setbacks are one thing and to be expected lying about them is another.Lumsden actually led/organised the orderly retreat in France and that Monty got a lot of credit for. So he hated him for the same reason he didn't like O'Connor - professional jealousy.Poor bastard Lumsden ended up getting killed in the Pacific as guest observer of MacArthur of all people. The Destroyer he was in got hit by a Kamikaze.There was another British officer on board who didn't suffer a scratch
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  1797. Disaster and the runt never showed up
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  1798. VILE ASS - Your lies have been so badly battered about they belong next to one of Monty's military plans. More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1799. Thanx for tagging along johnny Britsh Historian Ronald Lewin,Royal Institute for defense Studies "World War II: A Tangled Web,RUSI Journal,p82 "Thus we were brought to that dreadful day that the Alliance very nearly cracked asunder the day when Montgomery was really within a pen stroke of being removed by Eisenhower,the consequences of which I dread to think" Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.247 SHAEF and COSSAC Planning Officer, Brigadier Kenneth G. McLean is quoted as calling Monty a "big cheat" in his claims: "for Montgomery to say that he was holding the Germans so Bradley could break out was absolute rubbish and a complete fabrication that only developed after he was stopped outside of Caen" Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.427 as early as August 12th Bradley's Staff had been grumbling that "the British effort appears to have logged itself in timidity and succumbed to the legendary Montgomery vice of over caution Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 116 Britain's war effort even after just one year of conflict - had placed an intolerable burden upon her finances and her future was now in the hands of The United States of America. Without American aid and assistance above and beyond the commercial basis of "cash and carry",Britain would not be able to continue the War Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 454 By April 1945 the 61 American divisions formed the bulk of the Allied Armies,supported by 13 British,11 French,5 Canadian and one Polish.While Britain was now a significant ally amongst many,the United States emergence as a superpower was now all but complete
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  1800. Being a failure you should know your stuff
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  1801. Mum will be home shortly and pick up your green soldiers you're playing with she could slip and help her with the groceries this time.Burns you are altering the text again - what page number you lying hound - how sad you stay up until 4 am attempting to prop up a cad as demented as yourself.Monty - never has one done so little with so much and proclaim he did it all. Britain had a chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940. She failed utterly and miserably. From that point onward, whatever Britain does and regardless of what happens to her - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US. In that order
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  1802. No wonder your neighbor named his dog Monty - he left a bunch of steaming piles everywhere he went also You dabble in delusion the way most artists work in clay or on canvas.Your assignment read "The Full Monty"
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  1803. David Irving Burns you chronic bed wetter imagine what this Failed Marshmellow Montgomery would say about IKE if he had lost say 200,000 @ Dunkirk or 81,000 @ Singapore or 25-30,000 @ Tobruk but who the hell has losses like that ? More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1804. Ring the nurses station you are realizing hallucinations again. You lump Monty for 4 years didn't come 30 miles across until the GIs came 3,500 to do it for it for him. Go ask the Europeans they don't suffer from the fantasies in your land of make believe
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  1805. Never said that,but monty was a knob and a lying one at that.Monty nutthuggers on YT unabated threw the GI's under the bus to save the Pedos rep.Who directed nothing during this supposed charge
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  1806.  @davidcollins8604  you taking about the "yanks did so much fucking"",Monty wasn't even at Market Garden - he was a prolific bull shit artist.Britain had some good soldiers but he wasn't one of them
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  1807.  @davidcollins8604  why don't you use the address bar in front of your face to relieve us from futhering your education.Britain had some good soldiers Montgomery wasn't one of them.If you insist on thinking otherwise enjoy you stroll through the land of make believe.
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  1808. Do your own research read those books by accredited Historians
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  1809. The Aston Archives or Monty's Memoirs are revisionist rubbish.It's quite the other way around ,Monty wasn't even the next in line Strayfer Gott was .Much better than your self promoting pervo The yapping little jackel used The Auk's plans and Dorman-Smith's mine field in front of Alam Halfa and their 2 fresh divisions called over from the Nile-Delta. Oh and Blechley's Park's ULTRA .Oh little villa congrats on your 10 year anniverary of rewriting history along with your aliases
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  1810. Monty held 3 bridges and a shoulder and did not advance,the British only lost 200 KIA in the whole battle.The US had lost 8,500 - 10,000 KIA and the HEER lost around 12,000 KIA. Monty caused a shit storm suggesting he won the battle and almost got removed. But he was put in his place so shut up he did
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  1811. Monty couldn't lose in the desert where an embarrassment of riches covered his obvious lack of command abilities.I've explained it's alright that IKE bares some of the responsibility by stringing Monty along letting him believe he was something he wasn't - a Field Marshall.Monty never ended up in the chanel after the GIs arrived imagine that. The only thing Churchill knew about military operations was mismanagement. He took 50,000 troops from O'Conner after he captured 130,000 Italians,400 tanks and 1,263 artillery pieces.Shipped them to Crete were they were routed and in turn weakened the desert forces. After Auchinleck & Dorman Smith won 1st Alamein Churchill wrongly removed General Auchinleck who argued that his men had not regrouped and needed reinforcing. Several military analysts accused Churchill of misunderstanding desert warfare tactics, saying he placed too much emphasis on territorial occupation. They needed 6 weeks to refit and resupply. So what does Monty do - took 10 weeks(Aug-13-Oct 23) to advance​ - much more time than Auchileck and Dorman Smith insisted on and got fired for in the 1st place - real bright move. Almost any Commander was walking into assured victory.The British finally got their victory over a German Army and Monty was made a Hero when in truth it was a British /Allied victory. Montgomery had 1500 miles and every concievable advantage - BIG ADVANTAGES in men/materiel/air cover/intelligence/tanks/artillery. Bernard won with Auchinlecks plan and the fact he and Dorman -Smith laid the massive mine field in front of Alam halfa and moved over 2 fresh divisions from the Nile Delta.Churchill screwed up Monty Took 4 more weeks than Claude Auchileck wanted .He even benefitted the most from ULTRA as it was then fully operational in mid to late August of '42.In Oct/Nov the Torch Landings took place adding 109,000 more men to the scrum.Even a pathetic pillock like Burns could of won under those conditions.Berard isn't studied at Military Academies except as a bad example fired them when they explained they had to refit,reinforce and resupply and couldn't attack right away needing 6 weeks at least .real bright moves. The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61"Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us.He could have done it with out any danger to himself. Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed" The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 521 Montgomery was in a position to profit by the bitter experience of his predecessors .While supplies on our side had been cut to a trickle ,American and British ships were bringing vast quantities on materials to North Africa .Many times greater than either his predecessors had ever had. His principle was to fight no battle unless he knew for certain that he would win it .Of course that is a method which will only work given material superiority - but that he had. He was undoubtedly more of a strategist than a tactician. Command of a mobile battle force was not his strong point British officers made the error off planning operations according to what was strategically desirable ,rather than what was tactically attainable *Desert Generals by Corelli Barnett,pages 236-37Montgomery was seldom able to assess the combat effectiveness and intentions of his enemy.Barnett wrote "A student noted a typical scheme of Montgomery's dealt with 'Our sides' plans;but the enemy intentions or reactions were not imagined,either as a source of danger or opportunity. Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt.
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  1812. Oh this pill Boy Burny is dissolving in his own spit .If it wasn't for the looming Russian threat Ike would have told the CROWN to send Monty to the home you reside at. Go jump in the Channel and splash around like your hero
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  1813. Johnny the men with the nets have received a ping from your ankle monitor , apparently you've slipped out of the court yard again.Please ring the nurses station and let them know your location. You're not OK but just where your hiding
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  1814. The only thing monty rammed.....well never mind you are still a child. Monty got boat raced by Patton who took both palermo and messina and he later admitted it.Bernard dithered much like you here. It was all down hill from there - Italy he did even less, then he got recalled before embarrassing himself and the crown further.Caen,Goodwood,Falaise,Monty Garden the GIs had to start propping up the fumbling fraud. Europe saw it too
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  1815.  @davemac1197  dribbled:Oh my gosh, are you having a total meltdown? You're coming across as a two year old that's just had his ice cream taken away from them! ----------------------------------------------- Kinda like Monty when little boys are taken from him - like you. Or when he was given equal provisions to everyone - he stalls or takes losses.What a propped up fraud - not unlike the rest of that Island asylum
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  1816. lil villa those would be desperate failing empire getting propped up and insisting they are part of the Big Three LMAO.Even stalin talked right past brandy adled ogre winston at Tehran/Yalta/Potsdam. It was really a meeting for the superpowers not needy wretches that took 4 yrs to cross a channel
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  1817. Toothless tony Patton was stopped by IKE but after 3rd Army liberated Frost and his men he believed Patton wouldn't have faffed around like those XXX Corp laggards. Or the lover of little lads who was nowhere around,probably taking a loofah to villa - not that he would mind
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  1818. Bernard only moved with the largest bombing campaign in Normandy. And Naval guns right off shore pounding away.Congatulations on forgetting again.
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  1819. Yawning!!!No I don't need any professional help slapping you yapping jackels around,4 yrs to cross a channel after getting driven into it - yes you are the envy of the free world. Go tell the Dutch,French,Poles and Czechs about it shouldn't take you that long to cross Churchill like Britain was an aging, once great but declining wretch, suffering a long spate of disastrous loses and deeply in debt. Looking for salvation from a wealthy, benevolent friend across the pond.
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  1820. Metz was a fortified city and 360 miles inland(driving distance) not Caen 12 miles from the beaches,Patton didn't get any of the air cover much less the naval guns that the pansy bernard was allocated . Oh and the British Empire in 1815 never took it either.Jump in the channel where you were found you splashing around
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  1821. You are simply a fanboy continually ignoring military logic. We've already discussed this thicko Monty was 12 miles from the Beaches in the summer Patton was over 300 miles inland in fall-winter w/o near the air cover or naval guns My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.617​ July 19,1944, "IKE said yesterday that with 7000 tons of bombs dropped(around Caen) in the most elaborate bombing of enemy front line positions ever accomplished,only 7 miles were gained can we afford 1000 tons of bombs per mile? The air people are completely disgusted with the lack of progress" from D-Day Overlord Dot Com The commander of the 21st Panzer Division, Edgar Feuchtinger, has 16,000 men, 146 tanks, 4 battalions of motorized infantry, about 50 guns and a battalion of Flak guns with 24 88-caliber pieces buried north of Caen. Even with Panzer Lehr in total, the German force in the sector of Caen represents 228 tanks, 150 guns of 88 mm as well as multiple canons divers. The British Forces, namely the 1st, 8th and 30th Corps 60,000 men, 600 tanks and 700 guns. That did not meet the hopes of Montgomery who, from his headquarters in Blay, was worried by the catastrophic reports of British losses since the start of Epsom. On 1 July, when Operation Epsom was stopped by order of Montgomery's command, Caen still did not fall He set up operation code-name Goodwood, which begins on July 18: 750 tanks must pierce from the east towards Bourguébus. At the same time, a diversion attack must attract enemy defenders to the west of the city two hours before Goodwood starts. Previously, 4,500 allied bombers have to destroy all targets on the British routes: they drop 7,000 tons of bombs and are backed up by naval artillery and ground artillery, which fire close to 250,000 shells The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley​ Von Mellenthin wrote - "The US 3rd Army had received orders to stand on the defensive during Market Garden, it certainly simplified our problems and gave us a few weeks grace to rebuild our battered forces and get ready to meet the next onslaught.* Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.197 Until the arrival of 2nd Panzer at Caen there was little other than Wittman's small Panzer force,to stop the British. The Germans never understood why Montgomery failed to press his advantage. Of the period around June 10th Gen Fritz Kraemer wrote: it is still incomprehensible why the enemy exerted himself with assaults in the direction of Caen and did not make a powerful drive to exploit the open Gap on either side of Bayeux.The enemy left a favorable opportunity slip.
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  1822. From the Warfare History Network Taking the city of Metz would be a challenging task for the allies. There were a series of natural as well as man-made obstacles these included, the flooded Moselle & Saar Rivers, a multitude of forts and a plethora of pill boxes. Patton’s army made attempt after attempt to cross the Moselle River but these fortresses rained heavy artillery fire down upon them making it a daunting task. These forts and pill boxes dated back to the 19th century making them almost a natural part of the landscape this made the structures much harder to detect and therefore defeat. (9) another reason the pill boxes created a challenge was, because of their small size. Two German soldiers could easily hide inside and shot a .50 caliber machine gun at the Allies and have little chance of being hit by small arms fire. So the GIs attacked at night to avoid that and mortar barrages. The Combination of these natural and unnatural defenses had made the city of Metz a formidable opponent for invaders for more then 1500 years since it is placed superbly for defense on the east bank of the Moselle River. As well as being surrounded by barbed wire and earth fortifications that had been built around the city. Its best defense however, was the fact it was surrounded by hills that were turned into dominating underground forts composed of passageways and well dug in steel and concrete doors placed in a fashion that not only concealed them but protected them from artillery fire. *There were almost 13,000 monthly sorties being flown June-Sept over Normandy that dwindled to 2,500 because of the colder weather & distance away from the coast yet unlike OM-G it still was a success driving the Wehrmacht to the Sigfreid line before turning north for the Battle of the Bulge.Monty effed up so bad SHAEF never again game him precedence Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb,p.331, Apparently even the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen The Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command. *General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted
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  1823. Lot more than anyone related to you and schooled Bernard on Sicily even with Alexander giving him highway 124
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  1824. Nick I know I posted that years back - good stuff. A Britsh Historian who talked to the Gerries pointed right at Monty. Also a Dutch Historian with a PhD does the same,great and brave soldiers couldn't dig themselves out of the hole Monty put them in,who NEVER had the nuts to show up during hostilities
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  1825. You polluted rube cornhole that's why John Frost said he wished he'd brought more Anti-Tank guns and left the mortars.That's why 11,000 went in to Arnhem and 2,100 came out.And Brian Urquhart went onto become under secretary general of the UN.The RAF or anyone else couldn't see from the Air the Tanks covered in brush and branches,the Gerries weren't idiots,you keep repeating BS to fit your narrative
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  1826. reread the post Allied forces grabbed the the Ruhr and the rocket sites along with the scientists/engineers/blueprints and weaponry. Berlin was a useless pile of rubble. You have no idea how the russian people have been living in want since the end of WWII. The west has enjoyed a much higher standard of living
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  1827.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  wasn't worth it as it was already agreed to be in the Soviet sector. And even if it wasn't the materiels,blueprints,schematics,engineers,weapons designers procured from the Ruhr alone made it worth more than the pile of rubble that was Berlin - basically a status symbol - grabbing the Fuhrer's Capital
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  1828. Yup,clueless people here believe monty is some kind of leader,when he wasn't getting driven from the continent or letting the gerries escape in the desert or Falaise or lathering little Lucian
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  1829.  @thevillaaston7811  lamented:How is he supposed to know what it was like Arnhem? -------------------------------------------------- Never stopped you snogging wankers from popping off.But these guys were there - 3 of them British and they blame your personal masseuse bernard :face-blue-smiling: Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,p.309-310. The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate. Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para* still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points. And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs*​ until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. *By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p. 215, Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit: The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent.If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night
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  1830. ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.359 As LT Brian Wilson put it "the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move" While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try too hard despite the urgency of the situation. Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair
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  1831. No your XXX Corp where dragging their knuckles and why die now bs attitude along.Churchill even asked IKE if he could take it easy on casualties.IKE told him they would have to share the burden after normandy where American KIA of 29,000 were over twice that of British of 11,000 You unread rubes have criticized General Jim Gavin of the 82nd Airborne for taking the time to secure his drop zones, and supplies before attempting to take the Nijmegen bridge. That is just stupid criticism from people who benefit from 20/20 hindsight or have never served. What do you call an Airborne soldier with no secure drop zones and no re-supply? You call that Airborne soldier a corpse,prisoner or First British Airborne that was from a US Airborne poster who served in Iraq and smacked arounfd your ring leader TIK
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  1832. Cornhole should talk about cowards unlike him Beevor served and actually footnotes archives from 75 yrs back,unlike the "new" facts spewn here
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  1833. Again Burns you dabble in delusion the way most artists work in clay or on Canvas .No Link just pulling bollocks from your ample backside. You poor trampled cabbage leaf Monty even admitted it was his mistake and the rest of the Allied HQ agreed- would you like those quotes for the 100th time? I'll fetch them if you'll quit posting Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1834. Burns - Another one who thinks not crossing the 30 mile wide Channel in 4 yrs is tactical brilliance.Are you the swiss boy?
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  1835. Disaster got schooled by Patton on Sicily taking Palermo & Messina.Even Mark Clark in Italy out paced the laggard Taking Salerno/Naples/Rome. Monty was called home to supposedly to prepare for Caen where he ran that operation into the sand for over 6 weeks after having 6 months to prepare. Read the Full Monty Johnny,I think you are mentioned in it
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  1836.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  He probably did, If monty raced he might have tried it 😎. Next morning was D-Day so Clark literally had his 15 minutes of fame as they say. Then wiped off the front page
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  1837. More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 You're a sick man burns,making up internet friends to agree with you.Have the men with the nets call the staff shrink
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  1838.  @johnlucas8479  just letting you know VA gets tempermental and pissy when logic and reason blow holes in his very robust theories
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  1839. 20 points? that's about 10 higher than your IQ - just enough to keep you breathing.Burns did the men with the nets take you out into the court yard for a walk about today.If so "LORD" Carrington would approve
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  1840. just stop little villa thicko even monty fessed up to it - get a life already
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  1841.  @imperialcommander639  well he does sit in TIKs lap and get patted on his empty head
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  1842. Burns your pants are full again - have TIK change them then powder your nasty bottom
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  1843. Good to see dave and his distortions are out and about How about these guys who were actually there, then in real time, before Monty Garden even started. Roberts rightfully blasts the pathetic show pony that had demanded the debacle then disappeared Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: "Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine" Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02.General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Sir Francis De Guingand, From Brass Hat to Bowler Hat, p.16 Unfortunately I cannot say that I did support Operation MARKET-GARDEN Montgomery's supposed master stroke; but as I was in the hospital in Aldershot I was powerless to dissuade him. I attempted to, on the telephone; for there were too many ifs in the plan and Prince Bernard was warning, from his intelligence network in Bolland, that German armored units were stationed there However, to my telephone warnings Montgomery merely replied, 'You are too far away Freddie, and don't know what's going on'
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  1844. read the bibleographies in the back of books that access real time archives of accounts,operational orders,after action reports,personal papers, diaries,etc
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  1845. Monty Garden,bernard like the poof that he was sat it out you delusional dweeb.Tell you twisted tales to Europe,especially the Czechs,French and Poles
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  1846. Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1847. Nope right after the war dispatches and accounts where printed - The Poof Monty never showed up like an actual Field Marshall - Walter Model
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  1848. No it was the Britsh column was slow and they admited it then they stopped when Colonel Heinz Harmel stated there was no one to stop them. Read my post above by actual participants
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  1849. ♦ Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:35 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. ♦ The Armored column making it a whole 7 miles the 1st day as Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bringing the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but Monty's pathetic planning.This operation is a prime example of the clownish incompetence of his command. But in Britain that will get you the title of Field Marshall ♦ And why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think ? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site? MONTY GARDEN
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  1850. ya sure we'll go with you won - only a revisionist Brit would leave out why General Jackson kicking British Ass over 1000 miles away from Washington in Louisiana. And when napolean got back from Russia after fighting the Prussians to the army was a mob and of course your boys did little but mop up
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  1851. There is a special place in hell for that ineffective yodeling roach like you in the comment sections
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  1852.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  they didn't need to jump at all the US Army's could have let them cross further south. and set up blocking lines and ambushed them. There was resistance but Patton and Hodges both started assaulting across the river to seize the far-shore objective, eliminating direct fire on the crossing sites. Then rapidly established bridgeheads with artillary,armor and the enginneers. By the way Monty even had the press there - he couldn't help himself like macArthur like a stage production. All that commotion drew the Gerries
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  1853.  @michaelkenny8540  when you get your restraining order rescinded and your ankle monitor removed perhaps they will let you into a library. Unitl then put the pipe down and back away from the monitor
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  1854. NO SOURCES AGAIN - you lampshade Bradley wasn't there I told you this .Ask your special needs instructor to take you to the history section no coloring books this time . Here you go since you evidently don't know what a search engine is. That's alright you don't know what history is either. the GIs defeating the The same army that drove Bernard into the channel where evidently he gave you the Full Monty. See even the Germans themselves Mantueuffel and Model - look them up admitted Patton had them beat. Monty who knows where the wisp went maybe with you. After all he didn't show at Dieppe and Market Garden either THE ARDENNES: BATTLE OF THE BULGE, by Hugh M. Cole,p. 647CENTER OF MLITARY HISTORY UNITED STATES ARMY The failure of the Fifth Panzer Army to close the gap opened by Patton’s troops at Bastogne convinced General Manteuffel that the time had arrived for the German forces in the Ardennes to relinquish all thought of continuing the offensive Withdrawal in the west and south to a shortened line was more in keeping with the true combat capability of the gravely weakened divisions. At the end of the year Manteuffel had advised pulling back to the line Odeigne–La Roche–St. Hubert. 23 By 2 January Model apparently gave tacit professional agreement to Manteuffel’s views. THE ARDENNES CAMPAIGN By Don R. Marsh Monty's orders were to withdraw​ farther west on the 24th to form a defense line and "tidy up the front" without taking any action Our 2nd Armored Division CO, Major General Ernest Harmon disregarded that order​ and moved to block the advance near the village of Ciney. The Recon scouts sent word that the Germans had stopped near Celles, apparently to allocate the fuel now in short supply." "At 1435 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "We've got the whole damned 2nd Panzer Division in a sack! You've got to give me immediate authority to attack!" Despite Collins disobeying Monty's orders to fall back he gave Harmon the OK. "At 1625 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "The bastards are in the bag!" On this day the German 2nd Panzer Division trapped and unable to maneuver was destroyed. The enemy lost 81 tanks, 7 assault guns, 405 vehicles of all types, plus 74 big guns. An actual account of the enemy killed and captured was not recorded. It ceased as a fighting force. The German 9th Panzer Division desperately attempted to rescue the 2nd Panzer, but was beaten back with severe losses." Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge,page356 On January 18,determined to mend fences, Churchill made a speech in the House of Commons to emphasize "The United States troops have done almost all of the Fighting and have suffered almost all of the losses....Care must be taken in telling our proud tale not to claim for the British Army an undue share of what is undoubtedly the greatest American battle of the War and will I believe, be regarded as an ever famous American Victory".It was Montgomery's own fault that political considerations and rivalries now dictated allied strategy
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  1855. NO SOURCES - AGAIN you Lampshade for the 10th time Bradley was in Luxemboug and Monty couldn't save his own arse until the Big Boys arrived. Monty was an ankle biter passing himself off as a head hunter Didn't seize Caen (day one objective) for over a month. Didn't close Failaise pocket. Didn't capture Rommel's army at El Alemian and took high losses just to win by default, Didn't trap Afika Corp in Tunisia, couldn't capture any vital channel ports didn't seize any airfields, couldn't open Antwerp's approaches when it was wide open, Didn't even make it to the half way point in Market Garden (Arnhem was only end of first half), couldn't get past Nijmegen for over 6 months.... I could go on and on. His failures are the stuff of legend. He was worse at commanding then you are at commenting.....if that's even possible
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  1856. maybe your special needs center there can turn on sponge bob or some other cartoons for you as history isn't your thing. And get your head wound looked at Two officers one was Gen Freddie Deguingand the other Billy"E.T." Williams both heard Monty's halt order as they were in the British Operational.Deguingand was Monties Chief of Staff. And Williams was the Intelligence Officer. Intelligence is something you know nothing about. And another thing you ignoranus the ports were blown up long before any Tommies or GIs got anywhere near See here you unread rube 3 different sources now you may return to your land of make believe Carlo D'Este, "Decision in Normandy," p. 441 (Stafford Diary)Air Vice Marshal Stephen C. Strafford was SHAEF's Chief of Air Operations and Plans. He was a British Officer with no ax to grind. He also kept a diary and on 14 August 1944, he recorded this statement from General Bradley at a meeting: "He [Bradley] states that the American forces had little opposition between ALENCON and ARGENTAN and had started toward FALAISE, but had been instructed by the C-in-C, 21st Army Group [Montgomery] to halt on the inter-army group boundary." Francis De Guingand, Operation Victory," p. 407 Major General Francis De Guingand confirms this statement in his own book, Operation Victory "My impressions at the time were that Montgomery had been a little to optimistic about the probable progress of 21st Army Group... It is just possible that the gap might have been closed a little earlier if no restrictions had been imposed upon the 12th Army Group Bradley as to the limit of his northward movement." Since De Guingand was unaware of any discussions Eisenhower and Bradley may have had, the order limiting Bradley's northward movement must have come from Montgomery D-Day, The Battle for Normandy," p. 478 from Antony Beevor Both British Air Chief Marshals Sir Arthur Coningham and Sir Arthur Tedder said that Montgomery was responsible for the 'halt order.' . Tedder said, "One of Monty's great errors was at Falaise. There he imperiously told US troops to stop and leave the British area alone He didn't close the gap."
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  1857. Don't trifle with me you bent freak go tell your sordid tales to some soul as lopsided as yourself. Our butts are fine it was your asses that got kicked off the continent. or have you deluded yourself into thinking that didn't happen/
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  1858. D-Day,The Battle for Normandy by Antony Beevor,p479 predictably Air Chief Marshall Coningham,who loathed Montgomery,was even harsher: "Monty was supposed to have done a great job at Falaise.But he really helped the Germans get away. He still wanted to do the job himself, and keep the Americans from coming up. We closed on Falaise too late". Coningham attributed his actions to jealously of Patton which is not entirely true
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  1859. Run along to a library if they'll allow frothing little tossers such as your self in there
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  1860.  @michaelkenny8540  tell us what you know - that should leave you plenty of time for study and research. Sources were left idjit
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  1861. What ailment assails you today? Is it Ebola Virus,Mad Cow's Disease, diaper rash,Monkey Pox?Again thicko I read those from books and then typed them out and cached them - thus reading them twice. A concept you evidently find revolting - it's called research and sourcing.Back to your cartoons sponge bob
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  1862. Nope Monty who never showed up and XXX Corp who lollygagged then stopped - read "It Never Snows in September" instead of claiming to.Monty tried being the 1st into Germany and IKE was complicit for letting him try
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  1863. Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow .By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road. The Dutch Army Staff College final exam before the war asked students about how to advance north on just this road. Any student suggesting a direct assault up the road was failed on the spot. Only flanking well to the west was accepted as an answer this was monty's baby
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  1864. Johnny,Have that head wound checked out.I think monty's is getting a little rough with you in the tub again - ring the nurses station and report this
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  1865.  @scaleyback217  BTW ask John for the link he has been caught MANY times forging actual content of many different sources.  So he won't provide a link unless it's from slappies like Neilands or Poulussen. And Monty even fessed up to it after the war. And even Brooke blasted him for it.They should have listened to Admiral Ramsay or Air Marshall Tedder - two exceptional British Officers.Even if by the grace of God they somehow got across the Arnhem Bridge.They were dead or Prisoner the Ruhr was like 40 miles away that Field Marshall Model was bringing in tanks/men/artillery by rail in big numbers.And the Germnas were now using land lines that rendered ULTRA useless And if there's a fuck up it's Monty who never even showed up he knew was going to get filleted at HQ. How come Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student was able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September, not in October and not in November
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  1866. ​ @scaleyback217  You and history have but a fleeting acquaintence. The cad was nowhere around ,he popped off he'd go to Berlin and never made Arnhem. Whether the laggard Bernard is around or not the war ends the same way with Germany crushed by the emerging Super Powers.Bernard had 4 friggin' years to come across his own 30 mile channel. What was keeping him? How come the Germans could bridge the Canals/rivers and the moron Monty couldn't? Pretty simple even you can understand that Even Stalin put it in Churchill's ear at Tehran the GIs were coming 3500 miles - do the math not the meth 1940 British forces "evacuated" from Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk 1941 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya. 1942 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore. Monty never ended up in the Channel after the GIs arrived - you're welcome.
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  1867. Gavin's only error it paving the way for your safety as bernard ducked out like you in life. Those Gerries smacked around the Burns Family of Warblers .Johnny the men with the nets have recieved a ping from your ankle monitor get back into the courtyard or they'll ring the nurses station. Give the page number and the link you lying troll you've been busted MANY times, scribbling in your content from Burns Big Book of Bollocks
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  1868. Burns your getting trampled on Felton's board,even worse than Geronimo,Seth or Myself ever gave it to you
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  1869. Have the ward boy at the home read these for you Alan Brooks own words "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219"*...*During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him* Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp.He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later.
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  1870. Best have someone read what they said about Monty - it's in English. It's ok nothing about Bernard lathering Lucian
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  1871. Irving David Burns has been reduced to making things up these boards are his only life. Did the nurses confiscate your Magazines again Johnny?Answer that one,maybe Monty took them up to the Netherlands with him.Oh that's right he never showed up there either .Well call the Vicar maybe he'll make those nasty nurses give your magazines back
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  1872. The Captain Westover Letter of July 1945 quote: “For the objective of the 82d Airborne Division, I advise you to check the Operations Order of the British Airborne Corps. I (Gavin) quote the 82d's mission:‘The 82d Airborne Division will seize and hold the bridges at Nijmegen and Grave (with sufficient bridgeheads to pass formations of the Second Army through). The capture and retention of the high ground between Nijmegen and Grosbeek is imperative in order to accomplish the division's task’ This mission, of course, was discussed at great length with the British Airborne Corps Commander. About two weeks prior to receipt of the mission by the 82d Airborne Division, it had been planned that General Urquhart's British Airborne Div's would do the job. They had, therefore, devoted considerable study to intelligence reports and to the terrain. The Nijmegen-Grosbeek high ground was the only high ground in all of the Netherlands. With it in German hands, physical possession of the bridges would be absolutely worthless, since it completely dominated the bridges and all the terrain around it. The understanding was therefore reached with British Corps Headquarters that it would be absolutely imperative that this high ground be seized." Monty was the missions commander if he didn't like HIS Order of Battle he should have made his combat assessment after reviewing it and ordered appropriate changes. But he didn't bother - ignoring not only IKE's CoS Bedell-Smith and Admiral Ramsay but his own CoS Freddie .Even his own Corp Commander General Dempsey Monty ignored ULTRA,SR Officers at Allied HQ and the build up of the Wehrmacht in and around ARNHEM - MONTY Garden
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  1873.  @heyfitzpablum  take it easy on Johnny boy, he's in government care.He has never been on a date but he has magazine's.And wouldn't recognize a fact if one blew up in his face and circled around and bit him in the ass
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  1874. Of course you do you are and inbred british subject.Why was churchill under FDRs desk at the Whitehouse instead of Whitehall
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  1875.  @nickdanger3802  nick I read exactly that what reference source was that?
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  1876.  @nickdanger3802  some of mine go missing I know they show up in the inbox but not on the thread.Just recopy & paste
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  1877. the coward Monty like you was nowhere around as 34,400 troops go into Arnhem and 17,000 come. Monty had the spine of a gummy bear.oh and he molested boys,Tead THE FULL MONTY
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  1878. @John Cornell there were many attacks on the heights(Landing zones) and Graebners men attacked in APC's and half tracks with mounted mg-42s along with self proppelled 20mm AA guns.They 82nd attacked from the heights thru woods/fields into the city and the bridge on to have to return when the drop zones were attacked.Try carrying an m 30 or 60 machine gun 8-9 miles thru that then turn around only to return.You get tired typing on your keyboard as you reach for another beerGeronimo is right you haven't done a military thing in your life cornhole.Monty and a lesser extent Carrington own this debacle
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  1879. The guards armor showed up late then the whole 4 sat - like you infront of your monitor
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  1880. Old Monty-Japanese commanders would run themselves thru after such a disgrace as this
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  1881. Do you miss the bubble baths with your hero. Can't help you there see the Vicar
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  1882. You lying hound little villa how was it in Dempsey's notes of the 9th/10th and Taylor the intelligence officer notes of the 13th and monty never knew about it,what page number? You're pulling a John Burns plastering your demented slant as fact that a historian never said Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.138 Brereton was not in a position to exploit strategic intelligence,and he would also have known that Montgomery had access to ULTRA and had never the less decided that Market Garden should proceed. First Allied Airborne depended very heavily on Mongomery's 21st Army Group for their supply of intelligence. 1st Parachute Brigade summary by Capt. W.A. Taylor that appeared on September 13th which pointed out that "the whole Market area was being feverishly prepared for defense" - a statement entirely in accord with Dempsey's diary notes of September 9th & 10th Also from British notes Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.160 By September 1944 Air Force Planners were unable to see a happy outcome. More over it was documented that because Arnhem lay so far in land they did not expect to attain outright tactical surprise. The previous Comet Operation air warning stated "Surprise is extremely unlikely and the enemy will undoubtedly have knowledge of the approach of Troop Carrier formations by radar alert or visual reconnaissance" Alan Brooke's(Montgomery's superior) own words​ "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely...." I'm getting tired of this can you just admit you're an idiot
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  1883. No more than the yellow bastard monty bringing on the honger winter and not showing up to direct his operation
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  1884. Both wars ask winnie why he took everything from the States but a red hot stove
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  1885. From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary.Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  1886.  @jbjones1957  here's your problem right here,he's worse at commenting than Monty was commanding More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1887. when the odds were even Rommel/Guderian drove him off of the continent and didn't cross back until the GIs went with him. Didn't seize Caen (day one objective) for over a month. Didn't close Failaise pocket. Didn't capture Rommel's army at El Alemian and took high losses just to win by default, Didn't trap Afika Corp in Tunisia, couldn't capture any vital channel ports or Air Strips Didn't open Antwerp's approaches when it was wide open, Didn't even make it to the half way point in MarketGarden (Arnhem was only end of first half), Didn't get past Nijmegen for over 6 months.... I could go on and on. His failures are the stuff of legend.
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  1888.  @jbjones1957  he doesn't read anything,he prints fantasies about monty and hope some one as vacant as himself believes it . Another thing he's not allowed in the library until he gets his ankle monitor removed
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  1889.  @dmbeaster  great post supposed veteran British Officers Horrocks/Dempsey/Vandaleur sitting on their ample backsides at the Belgian border until 2:30 in the afternoon waving at the planes passing over.Did they think they'd catch up?Had they left at Day break they would have gotten over the Bridge at Son long before the Gerries arrived.But at least those bad officers showed up unlike Monty
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  1890. Patton wasn't at the Hurtgen Forest Battles
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  1891. He's right Manstein,Guderian and Rommel were laughing so much they could hardly defend themselves
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  1892. Monty never appeared like the real Field Marshall Walter Model
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  1893. More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 Can't make the dweebs up 🤣🤣🤣
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  1894. Johnny Burns accessing your ample backside again I see? If they've removed your ankle monitor you can go to the library. Until then chew on this The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.210 SHAEF and Eisenhower should have been focused the Allied attack on one feasible break through area. Whether it be be Patton in Lorraine,Gerow at Wallendorf, or Collins at Achen. Instead it decided to concentrate on the risky ill advised attack on Arnhem The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.213-14 On 29 August Horrocks XXX Corp set out on a drive that some conclude might have altered the course of the war. They advanced 250 miles through northern France and into Belgium unopposed and captured the strategic port of Antwerp virtually with out a fight. Horrocks admitted as much "we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stopr us. We might have even have succeeded in bouncing across the Rhine - if we had taken the chance and and carried straight on" There were no significant German forces between Horrocks and the Rhine.But instead of ordering Horrocks forward on September 4 Montgomery halted him. (Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.170,by R.W. Thompson) Montgomery failed to exploit his opportunity by failing to cross the Albert Canal and advance down the Walcheren Rd to capture the coastal batteries situated along the Scheldt that prevented shipping from reaching the port of Antwerp and delivering critical supplies to the Allied Armies massing along the Siegfried Line The Germans quickly took advantage of Monty's failure by sending in heavy reinforcements to the Walcheren area. It would take 21 st Army group more than 2 months to clear the region of enemy troops R.W.Thompson who was an Intelligence Officer in the British Army during WWII,also lays the blame for the army's failure with the Field Marshall "At the crucial hour leadership was lacking,the decision that only Field Marshall Montgomery could have exercised for which the hour demanded on seizing options and opportunities" (Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.171,by R.W. Thompson) The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.215 - "There was only a single low grade division ahead of Horrocks on Sept 4. it was spread over a 50 mile front along the Albert Canal. Horrocks believed that this could have been brushed aside and XXX Corps could have gone on to cross the Rhine" (Horrocks: The General Who Led From the Front,by Philip Warner,p.111)
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  1895. little villa - rewriting the history of a super power that came 3,500 miles to a so called empire's shores to help them go 30? Tell it to the French/Poles/Dutch/Czechs - go ahead wave your little Union jack in their face - then duck. Your favorite poofs plans got over 20,000 Dutch citizens killed in the Honger Winter - wag. Mr Conder what was Mr Churchill doing in Washington. this whole board is English revisionism. The fact is at the end of the war the USA had 61 divisions the British had 13 and they were driving American tanks/trucks/jeeps and being fueled by the USA stings doesn't it. We even fed you after the war,don't mind helping allies but monty was ASS and in fact prolonged the war. For 250 yrs your crown shoved everbody else's shit in but couldn't bring your self to admit America kept that from happening to England
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  1896. ​ @nicholasconder4703  Ive read Dutch posters themselves on boards pointing this out. As a matter of fact Horrocks and the Canadians could have opened antwerp up early. Monty deflected and said something along the lines of I thought the Candians could open it up.I was wrong - that was his BULLSHIT. As the asshole never explicidly ordered them to do so until after his thrust failed. And in FACT never showed up until the battle was over. Unlike a real Field Marshall Model He was an egomaniac looking for a headline and battle after battle showed he was a crap commander Ike stated right to Monty the Port was to be part of the plan. But he ignored it and in fact told IKE and Alan Brooke at both Caen and Monty garden everything was fine when in fact the opposite was true. he was just another MacArthur
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  1897. It was British Intelligence that said there were tanks there,and it made sense as it camouflaged any movement.And Both attackes from the Ardennes in '40 & '44 came out of the woods
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  1898. My opponents have been on for years.I'm well read unlike many revisionists.Not Anti- british,Monty was terrible and many tossers around here find it convenient to blame his foibles on any one but Monty - just like monty himself
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  1899. amatuers that never got shoved in the channel like John Burns Brigade and the latherer of little Lucian - Montgomery
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  1900. Monty pulled his wanker and that was about it.The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled SHAEF with almost unspeakable terror.And the Krauts with incredible Joy
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  1901. Puddles IKE put the 1st in place to make sure there would be no more Dunkirks.He put the 9th in place to make sure there would be no more Singapores.And there weren't - now you know
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  1902. Now you're lying thru your limey lips and you know it.The rancid runt held on to a shoulder and 3 bridges.Monty even wanted to withdraw.The Germans thru him in the water once at Dunkirk and were ready to do it again at the Waal or Rhine.But the chicken shit wasn't even there.We knew where Zhukov was during battle.Knew where Guderian was during battle,we knew where Patton was during battle.Monty was no where around just like his piss poor plan.Even your coloring books at the home state that - have your handler read it too you child
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  1903. More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1904. He is in fact peer reviewed and vetted you have a mootpoint Jones
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  1905. Once again dave hack ignores that IKE and Ramsay made clear that the opening of the Port was part of the operation that the tart bernard ignored - just like he ignored showing up. But lollygagging like that gets you the title of Failed Marshall on that Island asylum. Or if you stop with Arnhem in sight like Scarrington - they call you LORD - just can't make that shit up. Lord ya what a pathetic choad,even Frost stated - you call that fighting
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  1906.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  again for your edification when your done cleaning that tooth with your finger do try leafing thru this book with it Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,p.309-310. The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate. Yet Guards Armored did not move." German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para* still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points. And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs​ until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p. 215, Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit: The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent.If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night.
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  1907. ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.359 As LT Brian Wilson put it "the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move" While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try too hard despite the urgency of the situation. Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair
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  1908. It failed by a whale - MONTY
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  1909. Ol Monty...at least the Japanese commanders had enough pride to disembowel themselves after failures like his.
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  1910. Total Rubbish there were reliable contacts and Monty ignored intel
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  1911. Johnny has monty been getting rough in the tub with you again? you're making a lot of funny noises.Or are you dizzy inflating you dates again
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  1912. Because trying to prop up the crown giving them 16 didvisions and the Berk Monty didn't cross until after Patton,Hodges and the 291st Engineers.And took way more casualties
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  1913. Pretty much every time he was next to monty - left him in the dirt in Sicily.Monty owns the Falaise Gap too.Wouldn't let 12th army group close the gap because he would get embarrassed again like Caen and Sicily.He only won in the desert because he couldn't lose
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  1914. Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.108 Arnhem could not be captured unless all else below it was secured 1st. With 1st Para in Arnhem the rest would be left with 3 brigades to secure the Bridges at Grave,over the Maas-Waal Canal and the bridge over the Waal itself. In addition it was necessary to capture and hold an area of high ground south east of Nijmegen at Groesbeek only a few miles from Germany. German possession of the heights would have left XXX Corp's eastern flank dangerously exposed to counter attack. Never the less Montgomery's plan required 100% mission success something unkown in large scale Airborne operations. Failure to capture a single objective would jeopardize the entire XXX Corp offensive Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.138 Brereton was not in a position to exploit strategic intelligence and he would also have known that Montgomery had access to ULTRA and had never the less decided that Market Garden should proceed. First Allied Airborne depended very heavily on Mongomery's 21st Army Group for their supply of intelligence. 1st Parachute Brigade summary by Capt. W.A. Taylor that appeared on September 13th which pointed out that "the whole Market area was being feverishly prepared for defense" - a statement entirely in accord with Dempsey's diary notes of September 9th & 10th
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  1915.  @davemac1197  they were scattered to hell and back the heights,the city the bridge(with and 88 in Hunnar Park). The 82nd had the most objectives spread the furthest apart. Regardless of what they do it doesn't get the XX Corp off their asses and moving any quicker. But it's still bernard's baby and as you know he was nowhere arounf like Model and Student. Good thing to as it may have been more costly. Every Army that ever held Nijmegen held the Heights.As been well pointed out a couple of 88s up there and it's over.The heights were attacked at least twice durring the drops. If 1st Para hang on to their supply zones perhaps things work out better ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p310-311 101st AB Division Objectives -Eindoven -Son Bridge -St Oedenrode Bridge -Veghel Road and Rail Bridges -Wooded Areas 1st AB Division Objectives -Arnhem -Arnhem Road Bridge -Pontoon Bridge -Railway Bridge -Wooded Areas 82nd AB Division Objectives -Nijmegen -Hueman Bridge -Malden Bridge -Hatert Bridge -Honinghutie Road & Rail Bridge -Grave Bridge -Nijmegen Road and Rail Bridges -Groesbeek Heights DZ/LZ So reality exits,Von Moltke was right - no plan survives 1st contact with the enmey
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  1916. you missed Britsh troops in the Netherlands in 1940 - denial isn't a river in Egypt
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  1917.  @davemac1197  From a PhD in History as opposed to you a revisionist slappy
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  1918. Cherry picking again,why didn't your empire cross a crappy channel in 4 full yrs ? Why bother the amatuer GIs crossing 3500 miles of Ocean to help you out of the whole you dug for yourselves? The Euros know what side your bread was buttered on,Funny you never bring up that with every other Army in Europe the BEF ended up in the Channel. And who chaperoned them back over. Or who refitted,resupplied and reinforced the Crown after being Dunkirked and carried the fight forward.Billions of dollars in military hardware were left on the French Beach during that mad dash. One of Churchill's biographers is he wrong to? Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts, p.137 The British desperately needed very substantial American Forces in the British Isles to protect them against a German Invasion should the Soviet Union suddenly collapse Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts,p.149 Air Chief Marshall Portal reminisced to Chester Wilmot "the Americans had tremendous confidence in their own troops and by and large the confidence was justified for they did lean very quickly once they got into action-far more quickly than our lads did and once they got experience fought extremely well Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts p.156 American assistance was thus vital to prevent Japan taking control of the Western Indian Ocean. Churchill agreed acknowledging that Britain "was unable to cope unaided" with the Japanese threat there "No American will think it wrong of me if I proclaim that to have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. I could not foretell the course of events. I do not pretend to have measured the marshall might of Japan, but now at this very moment I knew the United States was in the war up to the neck and in to the death. So we had won after all!” Said by Churchill after Pearl Harbor Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.148-49 The Governor of the Bank of England,Montagu Norman wrote in 1941: *"I have never realized so strongly as now how entirely we are in the hands of American friends over direct investments and how much it looks as if with kind words and feelings,they were going to extract these one after another."* Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.157 On march 8,1941 passed Congress the new measure insured that even when Britain's cash was exhausted the shipments kept coming. The President extracted for the British thru lend lease the most generous terms a U.S. legislature would allow, much preferable to the straight loans of World War 1,which Britain alienated U.S opinion by failing to repay Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,p.116 Britain's war effort even after just one year of conflict - had placed an intolerable burden upon her finances and her future was now in the hands of The United States of America.Without American aid and assistance above and beyond the commercial basis of "cash and carry",Britain would not be able to continue the War. The Second World War 1939-45,p.85,By Maj.Gen. J.F.C.Fuller Britain was placed in a such a desperate situation as she must have accepted a negotiated peace with out American economic support she could not continue the struggle. Did you read that?The Crown failing to repay loans from the USA in WW1.The US didn't owe you allegiance. God forbid some sirs,lords and other assorted fauntleroys would you have to sell off their Castles or estates and perhaps go to work instead of Fox Hunting,playing polo or crikett
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  1919. Um No by 1941 the Reich had more planes than before the BoB when they headed east. They had their industries up and running before the UKsThat was before strategic bombing of the Reich started by the west
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  1920. Um no when they headed east the Luftewaffe was above BoB numbers. Does that include the 1400 lorries and their replacement engines that didn't work either. When they were most needed after the Normandy Break out and pursuit. Where did you fetch those numbers? Wiki after john burns or little villa got done editing it
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  1921. Dave hack you never read the book don't lie,the gamer TIK does exactly the same thing.Mentions an Historian/Book that he doesn't reference then slides in in his own demented narrative Ritchie, Sebastian. Arnhem: Myth and Reality (p. 157). Crowood. Kindle Edition. Market Garden was a direct product of Montgomery's resolute determination to ensure that he beat the Americans into Germany and use the Allies enormous and expensive airborne Army. In the 3 weeks preceding the Operation the combination of circumstances led to the production of one airborne plan that was quite simply pointless(Linnet) and another that bordered on suicidal (Comet) Market Garden was founded on flawed suppositions, massaged intelligence, the neglect of past lessons and the acceptance of innumerable risks, which substantially reduced its chances of success even before it was placed in front of Eisenhower. The very decision to target Arnhem was highly questionable. The town was selected Montgomery was seeking to maximize the distance between his "narrow thrust" and the American axis of advance. Yet by striking out so far to the north he both opened up his eastern flank to counter attack and readily accepted the challenge of the Waal crossing. Which could have been avoided by choosing a bridging point further south. This of course is where Market Garden ultimately came to grief. The idea of conducting multiple lift operations against deep and well defended objectives was fundamentally unsound and can only be deemed a blunder of truly staggering proportions. And required repeated daytime airlifts to far inside enemy territory more that 300 miles from Allied Transport bases
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  1922. Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.195 With the shortening of days,reduced number of hours this time of year, the increase in distance, the complications due to a late start due to bad weather General Williams pointed out it would not be possible to conduct more than one lift a day. Williams had a deserved reputation for close cooperation - he had commanded troop carriers in Husky,Neptune and Dragoon and was one of the most experienced of all Allied Airborne commanders Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.196 Lift details are somewhat of a technical character which is why few historians address them in any detail. They concern time involved in turning around aircraft for the 2nd & 3rd lifts, the range from UK bases to their objectives in Holland,weather an visibility conditions and the co-ordination of the air lift with fighter Escort and Flak suppression operations. All of these were interlinked Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.198 At the beginning of September 1944 Lt.General Brereton had already warned Eisenhower that it would be very difficult to stage an airborne operation as far east as the Rhine River from bases in the UK (SHAEF in a memorandum) Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.219 "Montgomery went over my head" Air Marshall Conningham recalled after the war. "Month after month he did that; until he had his failure at Arnhem - then they made him listen. He violated all command channels"
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  1923. You hack he has been the Official historian for the Royal Air Force, with responsibility for writing documented narratives on RAF operational activity for 30 yrs. and you a carnival barker on this slappy revisionist TIKs board. He also is on the staff at King's College London. Everything he wrote is archived....much of it in london - not that you or the other unhinged halfwits are interested in accuracy
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  1924. Look up Conningham's personal notes,don't lie you piker. Again monty fessed up to his debacle as Brooke hauled him over the coals fror running his mouth
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  1925.  @davemac1197  tore apart :face-blue-smiling:, you mean the pumpkin head that had to take one board down for libel - he's a bigger carnival barker than you. I'll leave this - from 5 top tier SHAEF Allied Officers(4 British) - perhaps you can identify them you can even ask your hero TIK o your other aliases on your account if you're stumped Alan Brooke blaming Bernard??? "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow." Monty admitting it after the war??? The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, p.303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "And here I must admit a bad mistake on my part –I underestimated the difficulties of opening up the approaches to Antwerp so that we could get free use of the port." (Montgomery’s memoirs, p297)​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." How about Air Marshall Tedder??? With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith??? Max Hastings, Armageddon: The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area. With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airily aside"
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  1926. Ya well there are a hell of a lot more candy bars in this video
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  1927. Monty bent the truth once - and that was continuously.Much like Burns here who nobody believes or the uneducated carnival barkers he quotes - get back to mopping the Adult Theater
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  1928. Again for the special education unit Burns is in From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 281 Montgomery monitored the battle through liaison officers and radio reports.He had neither visited the battlefield at Market Garden nor seen his field commanders; he was having his portrait painted,again and seemed intranced by the experience,boasting that his likeness would "create a tremendous sensation at next year's Academy."Yet at 10:50 PM on wednesday he felt confident enough of the view from Brussels to cable Eisenhower: Things are going to work out alright...the British airborne division at Arnhem has been having a bad time but their situation should be eased now that we can adv- ance nothwards from Nijmegen to their support.There is a sporting chance that we should capture the bridge at Arnhem. In the subsequent message to Brooke,he added, "I regard the general situation on the rivers as now very satisfctory" This assessment was nothing less than hallucinatory.Despite the valor at Nijmegen,any "sporting chance" to take the Arnhem Bridge had passed.Things in Holland were not going to work out,even if the high command did not yet know it .As XXX Corps account later acknowledged,"in front,on the flanks,and in the rear,all was not well."
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  1929. Showing up late then doing nothing is a Monty trait - but he got away with it and blamed XXX Corp.You have again displayed your extraordinary capacity to not think
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  1930. Late and limp is not what they were tasked to do,quit pulling History from your backside - but it's all on Monty not them.OMG wasn't 90% successful - this has been explained to you by various posters but you'll stop at nothing to try to save the runts reputation - are you the little swiss boy?This failure brought on reprisals such as the honger Winter - go tell your tails to the Dutch who had family members/friends who starved
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  1931. That Monty was a bigger idiot than you - if that is possible
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  1932. This operation was Montgomery's and proved beyond any shadow of a doubt his title of FM was greatly exaggerated and appointed on false grounds
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  1933. the point's on your head it was blown apart pretty much everywhere much like your arguements. One elevated lane with no room for maenuver is the idea of an idiot - so I can see why you like it
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  1934.  @nemecec01  um no that'd be the pratt right below you,who has deleted his comment
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  1935. Burns jump in the chanel and grab your loofah,bernard will be by to give The Full Monty,by your request of course. And quit scribbling your bollocks into italics and passing it off as facts. With Prejudice, Air Marshall Tedder,p.586*​ "Eisenhower's firm commitment to the Anglo-American Alliance dominated his thinking. He handled Allied disagreements in Normandy, at the Falaise Gap and for Market-Garden the same way. *Eisenhower was determined to protect the facade of Allied unity at the highest levels of the Allied command in spite of Montgomery's insubordination which was motivated by both personal and political objectives. Eisenhower's efforts to cover up Montgomery's lies​ in Normandy"
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  1936. -What other rare gems have you mined for us today you poltroon? Another limey revisionist that is under the influence of stupid. Monty doesn't show up until after the battle and Carrington stops in Lent, the Irish Guards, Germans and GIs ALL witnessed this - but in England if you go no further, they call you LORD. If you don't show up at all they call you Field Marshall. It doesn’t change the fact that a little island with a bunch of short people did little to change the outcome of anything.Useless lords and princes fighting to the last colonist - usually the aussies. "It boggles the imagination at what the allied armies might have done to the Wehrmacht with out Montgomery working so effectively for them". lil' villa you poor trampled cabbage leaf with your British inferiority complex, being the weakest of the allied armies and with the most humiliating defeats. So you attempt to rewrite history on your own twisted terms. And make claims, that God only knows where you found them. IKE had already stopped Devers 6th Army Group and Bradley's 12th Army Group to supply/support Monty's advance. I suppose IKE should have asked the Field Marshall Model if it wasn't too much trouble could they also stop to help Bernard out. And XXX Corp took their good old limey time sashaying up the one road.Bernard would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months with the Gis of course
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  1937. This is from a Balkans Poster that took turns with you like everyone else THE DIRECTOR Seriously, get lost kid.. go away. You're obviously British and are being patriotic about this As it turned out Churchill kept Britain in the war and she turned out the biggest loser of any participant. Only now are you really feeling the effect of that loss. The fact that, in a way - you actually lost World War II. In a pretty big way, one might argue. What was it? A quarter of the globe? You lost a quarter of the globe? Now you're second-fiddle to the Germans again.....they lost less territory than you, in the end. And make no mistake - the Empire was the price of American help. Now you get to be their satellite rather than the Germans'... well, at least they speak the same language. I can't imagine what Hitler could have done beyond stripping you of virtually all of your overseas holdings and influence. And the Americans did that anyway....so....who knows. But you hardly could've gotten off worse than you did - Second....Fiddle....To....Germany !!!
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  1938. The 82nd had the most objectives spread over the greater area.Of course the old woman Monty was literally getting his picture painted
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  1939. They did try reading reading something other than this fauntleroy cheering section
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  1940. Britain had a chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940. She failed utterly and miserably. From that point onward, whatever Britain does and regardless of what happens to her - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US - in that order.Monty was an ankle biter passing himself off as a head hunter who had 4 years to come across his 21-30 mile channel.Your Welcome - Your army was too small,poorly lead,ill equipped & ineffective - kind of like you in a comment sections. The fuel was from the USA like the tanks,trucks,artillary, 6 years ?Typical troubled limey tart,where?declared war then sat from sept '39 until May '40.Then monty skedaddled in 16 days - 20 if you want to include hastening up the gangplanks a smashing royal reversal it was .Do regale for the congregation the 1,400 lorries that like Monty stayed put,and of course their replacement engines that did the same. Then after this string of tactical briliance you runaway 3000 miles into a desert that was producing no oil at the time.After telling FDR and Stalin - Germany 1st, banging practitioner of bollocks - 🤣. Everything was given to you by the GIs amost all of your aviation fuel you lying hound.
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  1941. A dave Hak scribbling in his coloring bokk again "Montgomery Memoirs page 276" "The next day, Bedell Smith came to see me the next day to say that Eisenhower had decided to act as I recommended. The Saar Thrust to be stopped. Three US Division (12 US AG) were to be grounded and their transports used to supply extra maintenance to 21 Army Group. The bulk of the 12 AG logistic support was to be given to 1 US Army on my right and I was to be allowed to deal directly with General Hodges. As a result of these promises I reviewed my Plans with Dempsey and then fixed D-Day for the Arnhem Operation for Sunday 17th September." So clearly Monty stated they were "my plans" that 34,000 went into arnhem and 17,000 came out - in 9 days - there's your hero & the culprit The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, p.303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "And here I must admit a bad mistake on my part –I underestimated the difficulties of opening up the approaches to Antwerp so that we could get free use of the port." ( from Montgomery’s memoirs, p297)​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Alan Brooke placing the blame on Bernard Eisenhower's Armies, by Dr Niall Barr, page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden, Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer, noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary followed by an advance on the Rhine, the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. "During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. *I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place" Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..... "The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knockout blow." Foot Note: ("Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219") How about Air Marshall Tedder??? With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal
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  1942. Nah, the reason it was a bridge too far is Bernard Law Montgomery was a poor general. Poor planning, poor use of intelligence, poor logistics - he was awful at commanding. Terrible. As in, no fooking good
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  1943. The only thing causing problems was British bumbling in the form of Monty.Monty garden and Caen set everything back and that propped up fraud should have been sacked. And IKE reassigned for catering to him sending him men,materiel,tanks,trucks,artillery,fuel.Should have called back either O'Connor,Auchinleck or moved Slim over The broken old, British industries couldn't keep up leaving the USA to provide the hardware here's the real problem down below The Second World War by John Keegan,page 399 In 1944 the USA produced 47,000 tanks ,while Germany produced 29,600 tanks and assault guns.Britain in 1944 produced only 5000 tanks. and of course another drag on supplies Wilmot's "The Struggle For Europe" and on page 524 of the Reprint Society London 1954 edition By the start of September all the transport reserves of 21st Army Group were on the road. Imports were cut from 16,000 tons per day to 7,000 so that transport companies could be diverted from unloading ships to forward supply. This gain, however, was almost offset by the alarming discovery that the engines of 1,400 British-built three-tonners (and all the replacement engines for this particular model) had faulty pistons which rendered them useless. These trucks could have delivered to the Belgian border another 800 tons a day, sufficient to maintain two divisions. By reducing the daily tonnage of First Canadian Army, by bringing in fresh transport companies from England, and by such expedients as welding strips of airfield track on the sides of tank-transporters to convert them for supply carrying, 21st Army Group was able to provide enough supplies to carry Dempsey's two forward corps into Belgium as far as Brussels and Antwerp, but with it's own resources it could go no further. "The Administrative History of the Operations of 21 Army Group." p.47 "Eisenhower's Lieutenants" by Russell F. Weigley, page 281 Yet Montgomery had been unable to avoid lowering his logistical sights from arguing for a forty-division offensive to settling for an eighteen-division advance. For one thing, he had on his hands an embarrassing fiasco of British logistics which increased his dependence on American help. Some 1,400 British three-ton lorries, plus all the replacement engines for this model, had been discovered to have faulty pistons rendering them useless. The represented the loss of 800 tons a day.
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  1944. US public opinon didn't get British forces being "evacuated" from Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942
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  1945. Nope go across and ask the Euros,shouldn't take you 4 yrs to cross like it did your favorite butt mongrel bernard. They were taking bullets whilst your daddy was taking to the boats RUNAWAY - must be a Monty thing - you're welcome
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  1946.  @0donny  n ice job Burns is demented has actually made up accounts to agree with himself. Britain had much better men than that knob - Canadian General Simmonds for one. But their stuffy buffoonish Aristocracy would never hear of that
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  1947. It was lost when monty didn'd have thcajones to show up for his debacle.Actuall historians have been over this.Dempsey,Horrocks and Vandeluer sitting on their slothful british backside until 2:35 in the afternoon watching supply planes fly over proved the school bot buffoonery of Monty .The supplies dropped right into German hands they even left thank you notes
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  1948. Monty buggered of this - his Operation - the same guy who couldn't cross the channel for 4 full years. XXX CORP made only 7 miles the 1st day then didn't start until 10:00 am the next day then stopped when Gerry blew up the Bridge at Zon. They were 24 hrs behind schedule by day 3 and nowhere around Nijmegen. Ya Empire but at least now Big Brother was there to hold the crown's clown hand so things were going to be alright after all - when Monty got out of the way :face-blue-smiling:
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  1949. More bullshit this is evidence that not only Monty but his hair brained schemes should have been left in Britain.He deserve neithe men or materiels
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  1950. no it was created by monty shooting his shitty little mouth off then doesn't even show up to fight in a debacle he demanded - that is a fact.There was no Honger Winter from '39 thru '44. To bad your grand parents weren't Dutch then we wouldn't be litening to your perveted views of a bent little man. The Auk,O'Connor,Slim,hell even Pip Roberts,Horrocks and Herbert Lumsden all much more capable commanders.
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  1951. UM no Monty Garden
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  1952. Oh lookie Bernard's little swiss boy run amok squawking demented bombast. Burns you seem angry did Monty miss your bubble bath - like he missed showing up for Market Garden?
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  1953.  @jakublulek3261  um no that was already agreed on that berlin was in the soviet zone. Try reading up on the Yalta Conference. You can't be that ill informed to get allies killed for something that would be handed over to the Russians at war's end.And monty would be the last one to do anything about it. I wish IKE would have left him go.But this time he would have to show up and lead unlike Dieppe & Monty Garden
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  1954. exactly MacArtur and Monty seperated at birth - big mouths and little to show for it , Both were allowed to languish thus dragging the war on needlessly
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  1955.  @jakublulek3261  sorry got yours cofused with another post. Ike made the right move grabbing the Ruhr and rocket sights getting valuable weapons, their blue prints and plans for them. Berlin was symbolic but rubble and dust
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  1956.  @austinlancaster7982  different war remember the next day after pearl harbor where MAC was ordered by Marshall Himself if the japanese showed agression to attack back. MacArthur's inaction and failure to follow war orders causes the loss of American air power in the Philippines didn't allow the aircorp to move until 10 the next morning when they wanted to leave and attack at daylight and at least 3 officers heard it
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  1957.  @johnpeate4544  That's a fact Patton got stopped and Monty like you wasn't thereJohn Burns want another fact More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  1958.  @xchen3079  yes monty ordered the HALT as it was their operational sector. IKE kept trying to cover for him as the Britsh were getting pilloried in the press because after the desert where Monty couldn't lose his piss poor planning proved disasterous. In Sicily/Italy/ Normandy and continued twaddling in and at Caen and Falaise Page 331 Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen
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  1959.  @xchen3079  Ike spent too much effort catering to him and both should have been reassigned.Ike NEVER would have put up not only with the mismanagement of battles but insubordination. The only reason I read as IKE knew it was only a matter of time for the Reich.He was posing a brave unified front to the Soviets to keep them from going any farther
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  1960. No he wouldn't it flies in the face of military manuever much too easy martial resources and directed into a small area. That worx for a dwindling army getting hammered on both sides. The soviets certainly spread things out
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  1961.  @skibbideeskitch9894  Sources slappy? Patton/Truscott flanked Kesselring troops twice as unimaginative Monty dithered. Even though Alexander his British buddy gave him the preferred inside paved route 124 - in the American operating sector. See what happens when the crank wasn't given priority and everything divided evenly. When the odds were even bernard got bounced off the continent by Rommel/Guderian,ya Field Marshall
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  1962. He was one of 3 Sr Commander Gort and Brooke also, had a chance to pimp his product. Lumsden had more to do with the evacuation in that area and was mentioned in dispatches pissing off the trite Monty that someone else got credit for something. Bernard only won with the weight of allied advantages that his predecessors O'Connor and Auchinleck in the desert didn't enjoy and won anyway. Try reading the Rommel Papers/Desert Generals/"Churchill and the Montgomery Myth"/Brute Force for beginners. He had 4 years to cross his own channel w/o the GIs or Patton, Why run away into the Desert if he was all that - shameful but expected. The British had much better commanders
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  1963.  @skibbideeskitch9894  Not even close Monty happened to fall into an embarrassment of riches that neither of his predecessors enjoyed.He didn't amass squat the allies very much did.And Auchinleck clearly won before him you ran down patton who out manuevered the WW1 Sgt on Sicily even with his buddy Alexander giving him the inside paved rd 124 in the American operating sector. You've been listening to the head Monty revisionist TIK isn't an accurate source just head of the cheer leading squad.Bernard used The Auk's plan,two Division he called over from the Nile Delta and Dorman-Smith's massive mine field laid by engineers/infantry on the ridge at Alam Halfa.
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  1964.  @skibbideeskitch9894  Um no because Fritz Bayerlein confirmed these and they are housed in a Museum in Freisberg Germany with his fingerprints and handwritng established as his. The letters had been sent to Bayerlein,his wife and son
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  1965.  @skibbideeskitch9894  didn't hold it against him pointed out your mistaken blathering about Sicily he wasgood maybe, hardly great. But the point stands Auckinleck shouldn't have been removed. And Churchill should have never screwed with O'Connor Taking what 50,000 of his troops and moved them to Greece/Crete proving disasterous in both places. Great statesman had no business in a War Room. Patton went around Kesselring you crank empty? - leave your head out of this
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  1966. What do you expect Kesselring to say who BTW some how wiggled off the hook for war crimes. "Ya he flanked me twice what a failure he is." Botom line Patton drove him out of Sicily. But since you want to quote Germans fine. Rommel as you know thought much more of Auchinleck. Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily said Bayerlein" Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt. When interviewed in 1945,Heinz Guderian , the Wehrmacht’s foremost practitioner of Blitzkrieg, stated, “ General Patton conducted a good campaign. From the standpoint of a tank specialist, I must congratulate him on his victory since he acted as I would have done had I been in his place General Gunther Blumentritt : We regarded General Patton extremely highly as the most aggressive panzer-general of the Allies . . . His operations impressed us enormously, probably because he came closest to our own concept of the classical military commander. He even improved on Napoleon’s basic tenets. The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523 "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces, Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education" From a letter on exhibit at Wichita KS "Museum of World treasures" Hasso Von Manteuffel 8018 Diessen am ammersee Mariahilfe Strasse 7. Dec. 16. 1976 Dear Mr. Dellingatti; I thank you for your letter, attached you find a photo as you asked for. In my opinion General Patton was a master of lightning warfare and the best commander in this reference - in spite of several sorts of frailty of human nature! Evidence of his excellent command and control of an army are the campaign in Sicily, the break-out in Brittany 1944 and during the Battle of the Bulge Dec 1944. I agree with Ladislaw Farago first-rate book on Patton "Ordeal and Triumph" - an excellent report! With very good wishes Ladislas Farago - Patton: Ordeal and Triumph (New York: Astor-Honor, Inc., Inc., 1964), p. 505 'If Manstein was Germany's greatest strategist during World War II, Balck has strong claims to be regarded as our finest field commander. He has a superb grasp of tactics and great qualities of leadership' - Major-General von Mellenthin General Balck, commenting on the Lorraine Campaign, said: "Patton was the outstanding tactical genius of World War II. I still consider it a privilege and an unforgettable experience to have had the honor to oppose him"
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  1967. Have the Yapping Jackel Yeide read what those German Generals themselves wrote. The problem is Yeide according to them does not appear to be an iota of fact behind his claim . Just selling scandel sheets to slappies like you years later to feel better about both of your failed selves. trying to get in on the interest knowing wags like you will eat it up 'The Hoover Institute? Evidently Patton must have shagged their old ladies - where were they during hostilities? As Patton never mentioned them in his private papers. Just what did they accoMplish? What did the Hoover Institute have to say about British forces being "evacuated" from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Shameful but expected Yeide isn't lauded by ANY literary societies or circles for serious discermnent or discourse. He cobbles together,falsehoods,half-truths,unsubstantiated rumor - mostly his own and presents them as Gospel after he edits out the truth.
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  1968. Here is what some reviewers said abour Harry : The author didn't have the guts to stake his reputation on a convincing and definite verdict. Tacking on the name "Patton" to this book's title is just a ploy to separate a buyer from his hard-earned cash. Don't waste your time and money on this one if your purpose is to discover what Patton's reputation was among the Germans. ========================= The author had bias and supposition from beginning. Author could magically read Hitlers mind. According to Yeide, Patton was the most lucky person in the world. The only reason he won all his battles was because the Germans didnt care about him and abandoned the battlefield allowing Patton to "fill the void" When the Germans fought the French they completely fled the area. Yet when Patton landed in North Africa the Vichy French were levels above Patton and fought valiantly till the Naval bombardment would knock them out. ========================= An exciting title but a total disappointment in the text - If you HAVE to read it get it at the library. If you have any knowledge of WWII history stay away because it is nothing but the authors premise then his ideas to support it. Big gaps in facts. WAY too many details about German combatants then nothing about the battles. The Germans would continually outsmart Patton and then just fall back for no reason and suffer heavy losses with no credit going to Patton who was causing the heavy losses. By the time I got to the Sicily invasion I couldn't finish because of the suppositions by the author. "Island was abandoned because of Italian politics, not because of anything the Allies did." Even though Hitler ordered them to not give an inch and fight to the last man Pure poppycock. ============================ The book is confusing, especially when examining the fighting in Lorraine. The Germans have a First Army. The US has a First Army. Who in the hell is attacking who at times is up in the air. Is the US First Army attacking the German First Army, or vice versa? Maybe adding the "US First Army" would have helped. The editor was asleep at the switch on that one. And the maps are hopeless to follow. ============================= Why the author felt it necessary to break down, to the brigade level, the composition of German forces in Russia (yes, Russia, a theater that Patton had nothing to do with) is beyond grasp and comprehension. And the continuous use of German names and titles was beyond distraction, that Patton did not engage perhaps to impress the uninitiated ============================== The reader should know, it is not until approximately page 250 (of 420 of text) that the author first actually provides a German assessment of Patton. Yeide contradicts himself many times throughout the book - on page 197 he details the Herman Goering Division facing Patton in Sicily as green with hardly any soldiers who had fought before. Then after the Division is shifted away from Patton to fight Montgomery on the east coast of Sicily Yeide describes them as the most powerful Axis Division in Sicily. When Patton is about to attack Metz later in the war, he says the battle is unnecessary and results in many costly casualties for no reason at all. However during the same discussion on the Metz battle, he says that Hitler refused to allow a German retreat and told his generals to fight to the death. Well which is it Mr Yeide
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  1969. they used his exact words and and present the contradictions,Yeilde hasn't won any literary awards of note. He wouldn't even make a good youtuber let alone a vetted and peer reviewed Historian Hell TIK is better and that's not exactly a ringing endorsement. Being a fan of revision i understand why you would present his sham graffiti. And read what the guy who wrote that hack piece - he is referencing Yeilde instead of checking his sources/facts like he is a credible source . Harry flat out never interviewed any of the authors who credited Patton. Yeilde makes statements like it appears that,it seems like,it maybe noted sheesh. At least twice reviewers points out his woeful descriptions and proves nothing with the maps. Stating there were impotant battles then doesn't even mark the maps properly here are more He constantly quotes German generals as saying Patton was cautious and failed to exploit weaknesses in the German lines, yet he also points out on numerous occasions that Patton was ordered to stop, or to go in a different direction, or simply ran out of gasoline and supplies because of his rapid advances. So hardly failing to exploit,in addition then saying Patton is slow and overly cautious then Patton has the Germans on the run, and on the defensive. Who does he think pushed the German Army from Normandy back across the Rhine??? He agrees with the Germans who said Patton was average at best, but scoffs at the ones that called him a brilliant tank commander. He continuously says that the Germans did not care where Patton was, and that he was mentioned in very few memoirs of the Germans. Yet there are no examples of where any other American or British generals were specifically mentioned either - in fact the Germans were retreating so quickly and losing men and material so fast, I don't think they cared who on the Allied side were shooting and killing them with increasing speed. One last thing that was mentioned were the battle maps throughout the book - they were worthless in trying to identify who were the Germans and who were the Allies. He has arrows going in numerous directions, none of which identifies what side he is trying to depict. Several times he identifies a town or village as being pivotal to a battle but then it is not even on it. :body-green-covering-eyes:
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  1970. Monty lived on the blame he could not count on his battle field accomplishmnets
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  1971. Monty owns it a good commander (which monty most certainly wasn't) makes combat assessmnets and makes adjustments.General Maxwell Taylor wanted to change the drops but monty would not let them.Monty neither imagined or assumed anything could go wrong over an ELEVATED LANE FOR 64 miles it got chewed up from the beginning
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  1972.  @thevillaaston358  More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  1973. the mongrel monty allowed Rommel to slip away time and again not wanting to risk his false stature as a history changing leader. British units didn't deploy effectively using deplorable methods filtered down from Monty's ineptitude The Rommel Papers,p.253 "It was primarily the Panzer Army's staff, led at the time by Lieut.Col. Von Mellenthin whom we had to thank for bringing the British attack to a halt" [at El Alamein] Panzer Battles Maj.Gen.FW von Mellenthin,p.145 The attacks on 15th Panzer at Alam Halfa the mine fields, artillery shelling and ariel bombing inflicted the most serious losses on remaining gasoline stocks that were almost exhausted. An armored division without gasoline is little more than scrap iron, the shortage of fuel prevented any large-scale withdrawal. The circumstances were extremely advantageous for a British counter attack, but Montgomery made no move, apart from harassing operations north and west of Qaret el Himeimat. Panzer Battles Maj.Gen.FW von Mellenthin,p.148 I do not propose to discuss British Generalship, their commanders committed many grave blunders and suffered some needless disasters. Even the best of their generals were not as dashing or versatile as Rommel. And I don't think the British ever solved the problem of mobile warfare in the open desert. In general, the British of making war is slow rigid and methodical; they trust to their sea power and vast resources of their allies, empire and dominion. It is highly probable the British Air Force Officers are more original and enterprising than those of the army, and I may remark in passing that their Mediterranean fleet produced some brilliant officers.
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  1974. IKE went to great lenghts to cover all this up because he did not want the Germans or Russians for that matter to know how bad Monty's star had faded. He was promoted beyond his abilities and indeed his accomplishments. He had ignored & discounted the basic logistical reality of not only one road but that the Wehrmacht were falling back upon their own supply and logistical centers. But you wouldn't know any of that because you weren't there, don't read and history obviously is not important to you.
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  1975. How about the Irish Guards there How about Lt.Col. Vandeluer? Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson? Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,p.309 At the North end of the Bridge,Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Armored Division to push on immediately to Arnhem just 10 miles up the road. Their elation turned to anger as the growing British Force remained immobile Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp.General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate.Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge.Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points.And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs​ until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial Heinz Harmel? Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced LT John Gorman? Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright, "we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair" How about Lt.Col.Mackenzie? ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p 408 on arrival at the Hotle Hartenstein at 23:45 Lt.-Col Mackenzie opted to keep his dsiquiet over Brownings poor grasp of the gravity of the situation and the marked lack of urgency by XXX Corps and the 43rd Wessex to himself So the Germans and the Irish Guards are in agreement with the GIs - MONTY GARDEN. Do they treat you like mushrooms in Britain? - keep you in the dark and feed you crap or is it personnel preference?
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  1976. You are realizing hallucinations again Burns,Monty never crossed the 30 mile wide channel for 4 yrs,that is after getting driven into it. So fast I might add that he beat your uncles up the gangplanks.GIs had to come 3,500 miles to help the lollygagging limpwrist MONTY GARDEN This abortion of Monty's involved crossing three major rivers, three minor rivers, and criss-crossing canals, across terrain(polder marshes) where tanks couldn't maneuver away from the major roads without sinking. And we saw how that went even with complete surprise.And taking one elevated lane 70 miles with no room for manuever Bernard planned the whole thing - IKE and everyone else wanted Antwerp open.Which was accurate to supply this operation and everything else moving forward. The Allies couldn't keep lugging supplies 499 miles from Cherbourg. Monty Garden was unrealistically ambitious and just too many variables factoring in for things to go wrong. ♦You think Monty could have inconvenienced himself to attend his own operational debacle that after the war he fessed up to? Largest Air Drop in History up until that point and the poof couldn't be bothered? There were cock ups all the way back to the Belgian Border and it didn't involve Gavin or the 82nd.Ya but go ahead and try to blame this abortion on an Americans 55 miles down the road. ♦ Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:30 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like they had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown ♦Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bring the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but Monty's pathetic planning.This operation is a prime example of the clownish incompetence of his command. ♦ And why did Monty and Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day?That might have come in handy don't you think while approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 4 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site ♦Why were Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September, not in October and not in November
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  1977.  @wbertie2604  By that time the Wehrmacht was actually using the phones inside the Reich obeying Hitlers total silence.They knew their intel/communications was being compromised and it worked
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  1978. Burns please tell me you don't drive a motor vehicle Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur didn't think to put the bridging equipment up front of the column, that is after they decided to sit on their arses(like you) until 2:30 in the afternoon and watch the planes fly over. Did these dullards think they'd catch up? It was brilliant insights like that got them kicked out of Norway,Netherlands,Belguim and France in the 1st place. And of course Monty didn't even have the nads to show up getting his picture painted - probably for you
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  1979. Splish-Splash Johnny, Monty's running the bath.Take as long as you need with typing in and out of your sock accounts - when you're not cleaning your teeth with your finger
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  1980.  @davidhimmelsbach557  Dave where is this at?Can you link it 60 years after MarketGarden for a four part Dutch retrospective
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  1981.  @wbertie2604  they didn't cross until 7;10 PM on the 20th-that's 3 days.But it was Monty who was at fault his last fleeting grasp at fame and of course IKE for caving into him
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  1982. If bernard was any sort of coimmander he would have caught that burns in his battle assessments,but like you he didn't have one and XXX Corp was already bringing them. No Burns pick up you plastic soldiers off of the floor - the nurses are slipping on them
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  1983.  @davidhimmelsbach557  IKE finally realized monty was no Field Marshall like Walter Model who was indeed present and conducting operations in person. Model and Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student against Monty was like Attila the Hun and Ghengis Khan VS Tinkerbell
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  1984. No monty got his sorry ass kicked off the continent and Bradley had to come 3500 to help the lech back.And that's your hero .43 days with the heaviest bombing in Normandy and Monty finally walked into caen. Try going over to Caen, and telling them how great he was.Shouldn't take you 4 yrs like it did him
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  1985. The amusement continues was your dad a lunitic also?. No sources again, AGAIN? Have your special needs aid read you some of the crowns comics. The Germans blew up the ports. No need in getting men killed like Monty at Caen
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  1986. No thicko they were wired to blow not long after bernard got dunkirked. Then ass you know couldn't cross the 30 miles back until the GIs came 3500. Have your handler there at the home look that up for you - it should be in one of your 3,500 books 😂🤩🤣
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  1987. Monty captured nothing but indeed caught hell for his sloth like movements. Try sourcing/quoting that intergalactic 3500 book library no more of your nonsense
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  1988. Monty owns this not JR officers under him,not that anyone should be under him .He thought it up and hatched it,if he didn't like it he should have canceled or changed it during his assessment.Oh that's right Model was an actual Field Marshall
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  1989.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  That has nothing to do with my point.Montgomery called a press conference for the crossing of the Rhine.Literally Churchill,IKE & Brooke amongst other dignitaries attended along with the press in tow - like he was putting on Pageant. Good Tommies/GIs were defenseless as mobile Flak units deployed could concentrate their fire & shredded the defenseless Paras/Transports - they took a much higher % of casualties than D-Day.They had to feel like the British tanks in the spring of '42 in North Africa in the wide open against the same 88s
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  1990. the 3 American armies crossed 70 miles south with less than a 100 casualties there was absolutle no reason to send anyone in the air where flak teams eviscerated them 1100 hundred - in one day.Germans were falling back on the ground forces were either surrendering or going home to help family.The ruhr had been taken and the jig was up
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  1991. It's stroll thru the land of make believe like Monty's military manuevers so one could see why you like it
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  1992. He's absolutely right,Vile I know you're to broke to pay attention. Monty never stopped the V2s but they started hitting Antwerp in an attempt to thwart supplies coming in the port.But that's alright - to you
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  1993. he most certainly did and General Taylor went to see Monty 4 days before the drops to get them changed and field mouse Monty would not allow it.Just one crap plan from stem to stern and IKE should never allowed it but this happened alot went the mutt monty was off his leash
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  1994. Monty wouldn't know anything about Market garden he never showed up - kind of like you in the comment sections.Now open the window and stop sniffing your farts
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  1995. Exactly your Monty & LORD carrington were worse at commanding than you are commenting - and that's saying something
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  1996.  @rexfrommn3316  If Burns wasn't such a pinhead someone might feel sorry for him.Thanx for that righteous pasting Rex
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  1997. John Burns babbled I worked alongside the US Army Corps of Engineers, that is also meaningless. ------------------------------------------------------------------ The only time that happened is when you were picking up the portable latrine's,cleaning and dropping them back off.Go spin your Wham Records - dweeb
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  1998. Monty had one failure after another since Africa.Sicily,Caen,Falaise,Market-Garden .He should have been sacked and IKE relieved for catering to the ankle biter
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  1999. :face-blue-smiling: too bad you haven't read it as he places the blame on monty and XXX Corp. You throw names out there like you are a source . Monty ignored more facts than you Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.160 By September 1944 Air Force Planners were unable to see a happy outcome. More over it was documented that because Arnhem lay so far in land they did not expect to attain outright tactical surprise. The previous Comet Operation air warning stated "Surprise is extremely unlikely and the enemy will undoubtedly have knowledge of the approach of Troop Carrier formations by radar alert or visual reconnaissance" Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.195 With the shortening of days,reduced number of hours this time of year,the increase in distance, the complications due to a late start due to bad weather General Williams pointed out it would not be possible to conduct more than one lift a day.* Williams had a deserved reputation for close cooperation - he had commanded troop carriers in Husky,Neptune and Dragoon and was one of the most experienced of all Allied Airborne commanders Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.138 Brereton was not in a position to exploit strategic intelligence and he would also have known that Montgomery had access to ULTRA and he had never the less decided that Market Garden should proceed. First Allied Airborne depended very heavily on Mongomery's 21st Army Group for their supply of intelligence. 1st Parachute Brigade summary by Capt. W.A. Taylor that appeared on September 13th which pointed out that "the whole Market area was being feverishly prepared for defense" - a statement entirely in accord with Dempsey's diary notes of September 9th & 10th Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.108 Arnhem could not be captured unless all else below it was secured 1st.With 1st Para in Arnhem the rest would be left with 3 brigades to secure the Bridges at Grave,over the Maas-Waal Canal and the bridge over the Wall itself. In addition it was necessary to capture and hold an area of high ground south east of Nijmegen at Groesbeek only a few miles from Germany. German possession of the heights would have left XXX Corp's eastern flank dangerously exposed to counter attack. Never the less Montgomery's plan required 100% mission success something unkown in large scale Airborne operations. Failure to capture a single objective would jeopardize the entire XXX Corp offensive *Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.113*​ yet Dempsey writing in his diary, pondering the wisdom of the Arnhem Operation harbored the gravest doubts about crossing the Rhine at Arnhem. "It's clear that the enemy is bringing up all the reinforcements he can lay his hands on for the defense of the Albert Canal and that he appreciates the importance of the area Arnhem-Nijmegen. it looks as though he's going to do all he can to hold it." Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p131 Montgomery altered his assesments from his obvious desire that the offensive should proceed as planned. He persuaded himself that any threat from the Germans was off set by the large number of Airborne troops. Despite warnings from the head of intelligence and Bedell-Smith suggested that the operation be revised or halted Monty dismissed the objections out of hand Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.147 Lacking any direct contact with Brereton or his staff,Montgomery had no knowledge of the range,weather,command,control and communication problems that would potentially accompany a airborne Rhine crossing from England. I'm tired - MONTY GARDEN
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  2000. Says the misguided skragg who gets history from his backside - You're at home here - people who are less sourced than you. Reread that - it's in English if that helps. Monty was a bad example and is only studied as such.Churchill should have left O'Connor,Auchinleck alone or called over Slim
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  2001.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  That's true,but either of the other two would have seen the thing thru with out the bombast and disrespect.
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  2002. If monty pee'd standing up he would have been there instead he hid out with the Burns
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  2003. Rastislav Galia wrote Seriously, I don't get it why failure to capture Nijmegen caused the operation to fail. Even if everything went according to the plan and Arnhem was taken, it would have failed anyway, because forces stationed along the road were not capable of holding it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lock the thread Exactly RG that's why opening Antwerp was paramount.But there are revisionists that will stoop to anything allowing Monty off the hook
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  2004. You're an idiot hoping to achieve imbecility.On historical evidence - all over the place.Clean Monty's cack out of your eye sockets then you may tackle history.There is no debate,it was another military miscarriage in Monty's long list
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  2005. Johnny - which so called empire fought to the last colonial - ask Australia, India, New Zealand, Canada, and especially the Irish. Hint the same empire that took 4 years to come back to the continent that it only took 20 days to leave? Tough one Johnny so you might want to ask Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 🤣😜🤷‍♂️👀
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  2006. Well they wanted to shoot monty but IKE wouldn't let them. Why johnny did it take bernard 16-20 days to leave the continent but 4 full years to come back? He blamed the Burns Family of warriors
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  2007. more bombast from burns bloated backside - Johnny see the staff shrink your halucinations are getting worse.From the boys there. Arnhem.Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes:'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ From Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle.There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed.We knew what even a handful of Germans could do - they were so damned efficient. As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said "Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem" Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.” "He had made an awful mistake. I didn't like him at all." Leo Major, the most decorated Canadian soldier of WWII pages 2 and 3 https://web.archive.org/web/20150204042341/http://www2.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=fbcc446c-231f-4781-940a-3ebc3dee9f94&p=2.
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  2008. Why you haven't a clue and are still popping off.Splish-Splash Johnny Monty running the bath
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  2009. Monty not showing up for his own debacle and the rube Boy burny for denying it
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  2010.  @bergssprangare  wrote You Sir are an ignorant buffoon ------------------------------------------------------------- Youi're right Cornhole sits on these backwaters trying to re-write history.repeating drivel pulled from his ample backside.He's even made up accounts to agree with himself
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  2011.  @bergssprangare  Village asshole is another demented dweeb on the same account.Monty had 4 full yrs from Dunkirk to move on the continent,but wisely chose to hitch a ride with the GI's.They always blame others for their failures.Blamed ANZAC for Singapore.Blamed French/Belgians/Dutch for Dunkirk.And of course the Poles/Canadians/GIs for OMG.Britian had good soldiers Monty wasn't one of them
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  2012.  @bergssprangare  what you calling the guy an ignorant buffoon - your right he is - don't apologize he flames all the time
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  2013. Neilands was a novelist at best and not a good one.He perused articles and added disjointed babbled.So I see why you like him
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  2014. YES,really
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  2015. Actually Montyhad huge advantages in men/materiel/Intel/Air Cover/tanks/Artillery.He had the logistics but no tactics - they go hand in hand
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  2016. -Old Monty...at least the Japanese commanders had enough decency to disembowel themselves after failures like his.
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  2017. Doesn't change the logistic reality of what I posted. The war went on for another 6 months and Antwerp wasn't opened unti 28 November. Two months after OMG was halted
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  2018. It failed by a whale you carnival barker,when your ankle monitor gets removed perhaps they'll let you into the library but only if you keep quiet which you apparently couldn't do last time there 🤬
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  2019. The Germans followed Napoleon's decree when facing Monty "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake". ​ Anyone else but Bernard would have been ashamed of their slovenly selves at his idle attempts to command . Aggrieved allied participants complained at his lack of application that imposed on others the completion of operations left in disarray. And his distressing practice of trying to shift the accountability of the stunted results of his campaigning onto others. Had Horrocks & Vandeleur not sit on their arses in their American tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:30 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have left at 1st light and made the bridge at Son before it got blown And why did the same loons(Dempsey included) leave the bridging equipment in the column's rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal on the 1st day?That might have come in handy don't you think? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site? But at least they showed up unlike Monty
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  2020. Not the 82nds fault that the British units didn't deploy effectively using deplorable methods filtered down from Monty's ineptitude. Gavin did the only thing he could have based on the realization that Monty's intelligence on enemy forces was based on a fantasy assumption. General Gavin secured his drop zones, and his ability to resupply his men while they were fighting behind enemy lines. Market Garden resulted in the destruction of most of the British First Airborne division. Then about 2000 or so who escaped from Arnhem had to abandon almost all of their equipment. Market Garden resulted in the loss of one Allied Airborne Division along with John Frost's 2nd Para. Jim Gavin's decision to secure his drop zones, and re-supply probably prevented the US 82nd Airborne division from duplicating the British 1st Airborne's fate. What do you call an Airborne soldier with no secure drop zones and no re-supply? You call that Airborne soldier captured, wounded or killed. See British First Airborne The failure of Montgomery to heed the allied reconnaissance information during the planning was the biggest flaw. Montgomery discounted the basic logistical reality that he ignored not only one elevated road but that the Wehrmacht were falling back upon their own supply and logistical centers. The Germans had mastered this practice exiting the Eastern Front then proceeding to France. The German Divisions could be quickly refitted and reinforced with replacement up to full strength in short order.
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  2021. Never read his book where monty was busted doing that by Many British Officers. Sort of like these Cyber psychos. Congrats you have passed ten years of promoting the crown's comics :face-blue-smiling: Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2022. Sources?oh that's right your ample backside .Jerkoff the Germans had British working radios picked up on the 17th from pathfinders taken prisoner.And the Dutch themselves said taking that route was a fool's errand probably why Bernard took it. Both Brooke and Ramsay blamed him and he even admitted after the war "a bad mistake on my part" ENJOY The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant,p. 219 From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." The Second World War by John Keegan p. 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary From Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb,page 409 There were many reasons why Montgomery was being effectively downgraded once more .Eisenhower had no doubt any longer that his reputation as a battle-winning commander was greatly inflated.The experience at Caen,Antwerp,Arnhem and delays in following up the Ardennes assault and the excessively thorough build up for the Rhine crossing provided sufficient evidence for that.General Whitely .IKE's British deputy chief of operations,said the feeling at Allied HQs "was that if anything was to be done quickly,don't give it to Monty. Monty was the last person that would be chosen to drive on Berlin - he would have needed 6 months to prepare".
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  2023.  @rufusmcgee4383  correct they stopped progress everywhere to accompany the laggard. The British Press propped him up beyond his limited accomplishments & abilities later realizing it. Gave everything available and he still ran things into the sand like Caen and Falaise. IKE allowed him to tag along for political considerations. If it wasn't for a looming Russian threat IKE would have drubbed him publically
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  2024. Bullshit at least 25 tanks were there before the operation.Monty later admitted knowing it also.Carrington sat with virtually nothing to stop him as the Germans noted in "It Never Snows in September".Listen to Richard Holmes of the BBC here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKuOLWNe4g0&t=500s
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  2025. Monty later admitted to it moron
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  2026. you keep repeating lies until you've convinced yourself it's the truth.11,000 go into Arnhem 2,100 come out .No Tanks ya right say that out loud and see how it sounds
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  2027. Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 319 Montgomery's irrational behavior at the Falaise Gap was also influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman..." Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 318 Eisenhower thought Montgomery was a psychopath suffering from an inferiority complex Montgomery,Making of a General,by Nigel Hamilton,page 278 Montgomery's stepson John Carver talked about his "....schizoid tendencies engendered by his upbringing..."
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  2028. Didn't really matter in the end because the Allies would have been demolished in Arnhem as they trickled in.Pushed right back into the Rhine.A single road(an elevated one at that) is ridiculously easy to defend.Monty was an idiot for suggesting it and Ike for allowing him to do it.
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  2029. Center of Military History,The United States Army,The Sigrfied Line CampaignPage174 Spearheading the 30 Corps ground column reconnaissance troops of the Guards Armoured Division linked with Colonel Tucker's 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 the morning of D plus 2, 19 September. (See Map IV) Major formations of the British armor were not far behind. From that point priority of objectives within the sector of the 82d Airborne Division shifted unquestionably in the direction of the bridge at Nijmegen. Already at least thirty-three hours behind schedule because of earlier delays south of Eindhoven and at Zon the ground column had to have a way to get across the Waal. Pages 184-185 First Attempts To Drive on ArnhemCounting from the time of first contact between the British ground column and the 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 on D plus 2, 19 September, until the Nijmegen bridge was taken at 1910 on D plus 3, 20 September, a case could be made to show that the ground column was delayed at Nijmegen for almost thirty-five hours Yet this would be to ignore the facts that first arrivals of the ground column represented no more than a forward reconnaissance screen and that several hours elapsed before sizable British units began to arrive. Indeed, almost another twenty-four hours would elapse after capture of the Nijmegen bridge before the British would renew the drive on Arnhem
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  2030. From a Pulitzer Prize Winner,where as we all know you and your sock accounts just pull it From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 281 Montgomery monitored the battle through liaison officers and radio reports.He had neither visited the battlefield at Market Garden nor seen his field commanders; *he was having his portrait painted,again*and seemed intranced by the experience,boasting that his likeness would "create a tremendous sensation at next year's Academy."Yet at 10:50 PM on wednesday he felt confident enough of the view from Brussels to cable Eisenhower: Things are going to work out alright...the British airborne division at Arnhem has been having a bad time but their situation should be eased now that we can adv- ance nothwards from Nijmegen to their support.There is a sporting chance that we should capture the bridge at Arnhem. In the subsequent message to Brooke,he added, "I regard the general situation on the rivers as now very satisfctory" This assessment was nothing less than hallucinatory.Despite the valor at Nijmegen,any *"sporting chance" to take the Arnhem Bridge had passed*Things in Holland were not going to work out,even if the high command did not yet know it .As XXX Corps account later acknowledged,"in front,on the flanks,and in the rear,all was not well."
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  2031. https://www.historynet.com/eisenhower-fire-1944-45.htm Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them. Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance. Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through them and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe.
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  2032. BTW babbling Burns it's 80 yrs starting this week that Monty led one of the largest retreats in Military History @ Dunkirk.It's also 75 years ago this week for Victory in Europe.See what a Super Power can do in just 5 yrs.Even correcting all the damage done by the crumbling crown and it's rancid runt got themselves into - You're welcome Giovanni Burns
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  2033. Monty couldn't save himself,the royals or you a methane cloud floating thru the land of make believe
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  2034. Oh dear,Irving Burns it appears your 3 chins hit the keybord again. Was your mother was 70 yrs old when you were in 1st grade? I think that explains it
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  2035. No doubt he's a novelist but it's all the Monty fanboys have
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  2036. Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 319 Montgomery's irrational behavior at the Falaise Gap was also influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman..." Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 318 Eisenhower thought Montgomery was a psychopath suffering from an inferiority complex Montgomery,Making of a General,by Nigel Hamilton,page 278 Montgomery's stepson John Carver talked about his "....schizoid tendencies engendered by his upbringing..."
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  2037. General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops .At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend."With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions". General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt
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  2038. Little Villa belched one American officer who screwed up.' -------------------------------------------------------------------- 1st off Mongomery was British secondly it was many in a long string of failures
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  2039. because Britain already got the Indians/Canadians/Aussies/Kiwis killed they weren't going to risk their own guys,so the Big Boys finished the scrum - as was expected
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  2040. Little Villa lamented:The USA was 3,000 miles from any hint of danger and is many times larger than Britain. ------------------------------------------------------------ Perhaps if your crown didn't cutoff Germany from food in the 1st WW (violation of international law)and then your crown demand reparations at Versailles that nobody else received when your Crown invaded and subjugated counties near/far like Ireland and india,USA & everyone else for 250 years you may have gotten a sympathetic ear.Arrogant tossers like you forget your Crown stiffed the US Treasurey for loans in the 1st war Our isolationism suited theCrown just fine before the war. They actively encouraged it – no USA poking its nose into a world dominated by Great Britain. But when the Crown needed and received our help, they couldn’t forgive us for the humiliation of becoming a junior partner to a former colony. Churchill’s wartime rhetoric about freedom and liberty must have sounded hollow to those colonies seeking self-determination across the British Empire.
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  2041. Exactly TIK is a Monty fanboy and disregards the sacrifices the 82nd made so a monty nutthugger could excuse his favorite Pedo - that never showed up on the field of battle
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  2042. Cornhole unlike Monty he never back peddaled Dunkirk cough,cough Market Garden. It was a walled fortress.For 4 full years you daisies sat on the White Cliffs over Dover waiting for the real deal to show you how to cross - 4 years,SMDH
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  2043.  @HongTran-be8up  he played Monty like a cheap violin in Sicily and would have again if they didn't stop him for the brilliant Market Plan Misadventure.Great idea - said no one ever
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  2044. From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem
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  2045. Monty compromised this by ordering the foray foreward then abandoning those he was suppose to direct. His pathetic plan was akin to a pinata at a Mexican celebration. Walter Model and Kurt Student stuck it out unfortunately for the allies.
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  2046. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan.One needs a bucket reading your posts
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  2047. Monty owns this,the real Field Marshall Model actually was there
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  2048. Almost as bad as watching Monty attempting to move.The old woman never grasped modern mobile warfare .Britain had good soldiers he was never one
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  2049. It was Monty you moron he was the Field Marshall remember.Oh that's right he wasn't really - that was Model
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  2050. More British bombast what did your crown do when the Chinese and Russians were in S.E. Asia - oh ya go beat up on Ireland. And Ho Chi Minh agreed to a peace treaty and after all the the GIs went home then went on the offensive.The movie never said redford took the Nijmegen bridge virtually single handed but Carrington did stop and in England you get the title LORD for such faffing. The 82nd crossed the river to carry the fight in but NOPE. But at least Carrington showed up unlike Bernard,try actually watching the movie FFS
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  2051. Monty after this debacle blamed the Canadians by saying he though they could open up the Scheldt.The fact is that asshole never specifically order them to do it until after this failed scheme .But was Allied HQ who suggested opening the port 1st - that makes perfect sense.The blame rest with Monty and IKE - who never trusted Monty with leading another operation
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  2052. Metz was a fortified Citadel that hadn't been taken since 410 by Attila the Hun.Monty had a wide open country side and the element of surprise.But unlike himself Model was a real Field Marshall.Kind of like every one against cornhole
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  2053. like you lil villa that'd be NO as davey's head is at least as far up Monty's arse as yours. But he can tell you what he had for lunch
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  2054. I'd say Monty appeared lost but the sad fact is he never appeared at ALL. little villa are you lucian treub?
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  2055.  @warspite1807  Johnny picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue
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  2056.  @warspite1807  no johnny burns is no relation
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  2057. Monty Garden that puuf was no where around like an actual Field Marshall Model
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  2058.  @sean640307  did bernard give you the full monty also - he is only studied as a fine example of a bad example
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  2059.  @youscousebastard424  Britain had some good soldiers but Monty wasn't one of them.
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  2060. You can always get back ground you can't get back 17,000 lost soldiers
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  2061.  @imperialcommander639  ya I noticed that burns is one troubled tart
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  2062. Neilands is a bigger Monty nutthugger than burnhole - he doesn't even quote sources.So put your crayons and coloring books back Johnny Giovanni
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  2063. Only an absolut e idiot would state - "I come from a family of warriors" and "my neighbor named his dog after Monty" - It's a good thing you stay in at the computer - you'd be shamed trying to make conversation with actual adults
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  2064.  @tlb2732  yes Little Villa is a bent freak she asked for evidence you gave it to her then she says not really. See where she comes from getting driven from Norway,Netherlands,Belgium,France,Dunkirk indeed the continent are all strategic withdrawals. Monty had 4 full yrs to come across a 30 mile wide channel.Instead ran away 3,000 miles into the desert and Little Villa can't understand why the rest of the Europe left to the Reich can't see the brilliance of this
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  2065.  @od1452 hell they were screwed what little few would have made the Bridge as Model was bringing in scores of tanks/artillary/men/materiel from the near by Ruhr. So little crossing at one small point would have been killed/captured or driven into the Rhine - DUNKIRK II - it never had a chance and Monty didn't even show up, great way to show support for the boys doing the actual fighting
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  2066. A Bridge Too Far is so accurate that the pathetic poof bernard didn't appear in it either This abortion of Monty's involved crossing three major rivers, three minor rivers, and canals, polder marshes and drainage ditches,where tanks couldn't maneuver away from the major roads without sinking. And we saw how that went even with complete surprise. Taking one elevated lane 70 miles with no room for maneuver is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly. Bernard planned the whole thing - IKE and everyone else wanted Antwerp open.Which was accurate to supply this operation and everything else moving forward. The Americans couldn't keep lugging supplies 483 miles from Cherbourg. Specially after 1400 of the crap British Austin trucks had bad pistons as well as their replacement engines Monty Garden was unrealistically ambitious and just too many variables factoring in for things to go wrong.
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  2067. Monty was no where around like the actuall event.Only in England can a child molester get away with that
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  2068. Twat waffle do you need Brooke's quote blaming bernard or his admission after the war of it. No they left at 2:35 they were still flying over why didn't they break camp at 1st light like any other army that ever mattered did - because they were British and under Monty.They made 7 miles the 1st Day and were behind over an hour.Had they gotten off their aritocratic asses earlier they could have made Son before Gerry blew the bridge.And they stopped at 6 pm with an hour of daylight.More pathetic british urgency. This whole board is nothing more than a monty fanboi revisionist section with inferiority and lies bleeding over at every post If you Carnival Barkers for the crown are going to spout such nonsense, could you at least do us all a favor and wear silly hats when you do so This way, we will know you're aren't meant to be taken seriously. Monty's plan was based on one seriously flawed assumption. Monty assumed the German Army in the West was beaten, and could not offer up a serious coordinated resistance to his army's scenic drive down a single snarled road in the beautiful Dutch county side. Monty also assumed that no one in the German Army was capable of interfering with his plans for his Airborne troops to have a nice holiday and picnic in Holland. WELL,THE ENEMY GETS A VOTE. Seems like Monty forgot that basic fact of Warfare. The commander who underestimates his enemy - especially when his own intelligence apparatus is ringing alarm bells - is a fool. I understand why he's your hero. - go tell your BS to the Dutch/French/Poles and Czechs
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  2069. That's rich you've done nothing but make crap up of a crumbling crown that had to acquiesce to a country they couldn't colonize. No Brooke told them before as did IKE/Ramsay. Opening the port was part of the deal as monty thought he roll over armies that rolled him off the continent previously- before the big boys were there. If that debacle somehow made Arnhem then what? They would be out of everything,ammo,food,artillery then killed/captured or driven into the river .No resupply because of those crappy austin trucks breaking down Model was bringing in men and material in fresh from the nearby Ruhr. The Allies were advancing further and away from their supply centers with long supply lines meaning they were vulnerable to German counterattack or getting bogged down against a German defense in depth with dug in troops in fortifications. The Germans were experts at taking shattered divisions and rebuilding them quickly. SHAEF was right,the Port of ANTWERP should have been opened FIRST The Germans would have had the advantage of interior lines of communications, nearby supply depots, and urban centers to concentrate a counteroffensive against any single attack into northern Germany across the Rhine via Arnhem. A successful attack across the Rhine could only be accomplished from MULTIPLE POINTS simultaneously. This action is exactly what happened in the spring of 1945. IKE's broadfront not monty's debacle of sandwiching a whole armored corp down one elevated lane. The idea you can make one long extended penetration with long extended supply lines into northern Germany, along one axis of advance is IDIOCY . The Wehrmacht still had plenty of infantry divisions, armored division with military resources and capacity to fight in the autumn of 1944. The air transports used for the FAILED Operation Market-Garden should have been used for fuel and ammo deliveries to supplement truck transport for Bradley/Devers advances. The American 82nd and 101st airborne should have been used as regular infantry divisions to spearhead attacks in critical sectors. Most importantly, using the 82nd and 101st for American infantry attacks would have kept them far away from Montgomery which would have been better for everybody.
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  2070. It was Monty's crap plan that caused those Dutch to starve,he was a crime against the Allies Advances
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  2071.  @paulmazan4909  A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
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  2072.  @lufasumafalu5069  Like John Burns, Monty was nowhere around - MONTY GARDEN
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  2073. More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 In Eisenhowers unpublished transcripts at the Presidential library "....after we were ashore in Normandy we had not been achieving the advances that Monty that had earlier predicted on his maps. Mr Churchill expressed unhappiness at the lack of progress and the failure to capture Caen.Churchill came to see me one day accompanied by General Brooke.He pointed out the pre-invasion briefings and the seizure of Caen within 24 hrs had been assumed. The failure after fighting to take this key city strengthened his fear that we were descending into bitter WW1 "trench-warfare" Seizing the Initiative in the West,by F.Howe p.521 - 21st Army group proceeded to the crucial battle with the majestic deliberation of a pachyderm.Eisenhower was to write Marshall a few weeks later suggesting that "Monty was so proud that he will never willingly make a single move until he is absolutely certain of success, concentrating enough resources that anyone could practically guarantee the outcome(
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  2074. Great Post Grant and spot on
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  2075. Like Monty you Berk Coningham a NZer and Cuningham a Brit both couldn't stand him for grabbing credit in the desert that had been established before bernard the braggart arrived
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  2076. I read he lived there,you were born in the gutter and raised in a lab,either way he hated Monty's guts.Turns out he went to grade school thru to College(Wellington) in...ah,hum - New Zealand.Your pants are full again Little Villa,ring the nurses station
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  2077. And they had APCs with mounted MG-42s,self propelled 20mm AA guns and Halftracks with mounted AA and AT guns. Do you have any idea what AA guns do to lightly supplied Para's.They were chopped apart and driven from the S.Side of the Bridge. You act like Graebner was on a walk about like say Monty or Carrington
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  2078. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan!!! Bullshit Johnny you rearranged all of that and anyone here can look it up,MONTY Garden The 82nd had nothing to do with Monty's poor planning and XXX Corps slow progress or the Germnas still between Nijmegen and Arnhem.Or the Gerries pouring in from the Ruhr.Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger who by the way like you was no where around Monty knew of the horrific logistics of way too many air lifts - do some research.There were 700 more flights than D-Day,3 months earlier - over two hrs less day light. And the flights were much longer 300 miles to NE Netherlands as opposed to 30 miles across the channe tp France The idiot also ignored opening ANTWERP. In the highly unlikely case a few tanks made it over the Arnhem bridge then what? They were out of everything and needed immediate resupply and support.With the nearest open port - Cherbourg - 499 miles away!!! SMDH How come Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student were able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden & other places. While Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September, not in October and not in November. Model being an actual Field Marshall conducted a clinic in modern mobile warfare & Monty fell back on his old woman ways
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  2079. Grab you loofah johnny Bernard's waiting for you
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  2080. you didn't Thumbs Up your own reply ... did you? You did no one responds that quick especially to your yodeling - you bent freak You keep refuting yourself with the stupidity of your own statements.None of the objectives were met you knob ♦Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare ♦The massive deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for suppliesfor an operation that size ♦Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. ♦The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation,exposure and disease. ♦Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich ♦And all of the country's live stock was sent/driven to the Reich as they fell back. ♦Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as Montgomery boasted ♦Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army ♦Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success ♦The V-2s were still being launched
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  2081. Tucker and Cook also told your LORD Carrington to get going that the 82nd would go also,but nope he parked it.Doesn't take much to be a LORD EVIDENTLY
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  2082. Ask the French,why they came back over with the GIs,because Monty and Brooke RAN away left them on the beach to cover the Royal reversal or Burns Brigade Bumbling From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.309 The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate.Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points.And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south.By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September.Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial The Grenedier Guards and the 2nd Battalion 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment were shortly to pay a high price for Brownings operational ineptitude From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced - From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line.
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  2083. Dim bulb best read the facts presented
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  2084. Quiz Time, What kind of whack makes up alaises to agree with himself on an anonymous message board? Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 heVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2085. Knob no matter what people think of you. At least mosquitoes find you attractive.
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  2086.  @johnburns4017 You have your head so far up monty's ass you can see what he had for lunch.Have the ward boy at the home pull you out
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  2087. Burnhole,you poor misguided skragg,I guess in your defense, you were left unsupervised.4 years Johnny - 30 miles what was the problem? Guderian/Rommel were giggling,The French were screaming Sacre Bleu and Stalin was like WTF 🤣
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  2088. No where is that documented except dunkirk? or in your fantasy land where revisionist rube's like you think Monty's a Field Marshall,he sat longer than you infront of your mum's computer screen
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  2089. You've lied once davey and that has been continuously
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  2090. another bullshit presentation IKE catered to Island of tossers that kept anything from working.Monty got into shit with plenty of british officers,Brooke hauled him over the coals.When IKE let monty fail then you bitch he should have done something.He was much better than this shabby hamlet of unhinged halfwits.Sun Zu never would agree with that tard Poulussen - who couldn't identify an M-1 and was a photographer not an author of historian
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  2091. The Vile Anus wrote Big Woody is a forger and a liar --------------------------------------------------------------- You've lied once - and that has been contiuously.More times than Burns has been caught with his finger in his nose.Sure little villa and your boy toy lyndon changed his name from John Cornell. I'm sure this is just a coincidence - you gaggle of squawking twats Barrie Rodliffe       joined  26 Sept 2013  Giovanni Pierre     joined  28 Sept 2013  John Peate            joined  28 Sept 2013  John Burns            joined  07 Nov  2013  John Cornell          joined  13  Nov 2013  TheVilla Aston      joined  20 Nov   2013
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  2092. To quote someone who lives there,Oddball SOK - wrote and isn't it ironic that the biggest Rhine bifurcation was the WAAL at Nijmegen and the 30crps effectively HAD crossed the Rhine and all they had to do is do the same as the Germans at Pannerden Ferry:PUT TANKS ACROSS THE Pannerden and you were in free accessible German tank land !Only a small river Oude Ijssel at Doetinchem (which was there too after Market Garden ;p )and go go go into das deutsche Reich?!Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come ? How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over,under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November Just look at it at google maps: the river looks like nothing... And it still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction The mongrel Monty had 4 full years to come across a crummy little channel and only did so when the Pedo could ride the GIs coattails
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  2093. By the book amazon has it it's in English,have your handler at the home read it to you.Go one page further some one else posts it - desperate sod you are
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  2094. Johnny is a sick juvenile who has made up other accounts to agree with himself More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2095. No,you are enjoying you stroll thru the land of make believe AGAIN. Monty should have made his battle assessment as he KNEW there was a problem as there were 700 more flights than D-DAY that were 300 miles away in N.Europe in the netherlands not across the 30 miles in Normandy.With over 2 hrs less daylight on september 17th than june 6th.Even a bernard nutthugger like you knows this but it won't stop you from blaming anyone one but your favorite BRIT This is from Montgomery Memoirs Chapter 16 "My PLAN was to drive hard for the Rhine across all obstacles. para 4 I have already explained the direction of the thrust would be towards Arnhem and why. The essential feature of the PLAN was the laying of a carpet of airborne forces across five major water obstacles which existed on the general axis of the main road through Eindhoven to Uden, Grave , Nijmegen and thence to Arnhem" Clearly Montgomery stated it was his Plan not just an idea. OH BTW he never showed up to direct as it started coming apart 3 miles from the start as Panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans. Then monty got real scarce and lied to both Brooke and IKE that things were going fine,while he hoped the wouldn't get worse as the did. XXX Corp were behind schedule and the Germans in fact had been refitting in arnhem and Monty stuck his head in the sand
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  2096. Guys - it was a shit plan from the start,Monty knew it also - never showing his sorry ass face at the after battle council. At both Caen and Market-Garden,he sent both Brooke and IKE horseshit dispatches that everything was going fine gung ho and all that sort of thing - they were both lies hoping to bide time and things to straighten out. With the exception of Coutney Hodges there wasn't a worse senior commander in the ETO
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  2097. Dave Mac you ignore a dozen cock ups well below Eindhoven the 1st hrs XXX Corp Horrocks and Vandeleur watching the flights going over in Belgium then starts the column forward at 2:30 PM- did he think he'd catch up? The column was stopped 3 miles after that by Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 shermans stopping the column.They made it a whole 7 miles the 1st day stopping at 6 PM still with daylight .XXX Corp dragging as Vandeleur and his cousin stopping to drink champagne on 2nd day with a female reporter then going swimming.The IRish guards later said the 82nd were crawling all over the place by at Nijmegan and North to Lent and "LORD" Carrington stopped the column - real lord.Major Tony Higgert in Arnhem said they could hear the action 8 miles away and said he thought they'd make - but stopped.But I won't blame them either the real culprit was no where around - Montgomery - like the REAL Field Marshall Walter Model who was conducting a clinic
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  2098. Burns get that head wound looked at Bernard didn't even show up for his own debacle,even the Krauts blamed your laggards for stopping and staying in lent and going no further.Kind of like you in life - sad really
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  2099. How come Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student was able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September, not in October and not in November Montgomery This from Seth 1422 who throttled your sorry self Sunset on the first day, September 17, was at 19:50, darkness was at 20:30. When the Irish Guard halted at 19:30 it also was not in contact with the enemy, so advance in darkness was not impossible. Sunrise on the 18th was at 07:15, meaning that the Irish Guards did not move for half of the available daylight on the second day. No Irish Guard tanks were destroyed immediately, but instead contact with the enemy was made around 16:00. It should also be noted that according to JOE Vandaleur’s own account, he had lunch with his cousin and a female reporter, then went for a swim in a roadside villa before starting the Guards moving on September 18th. Whatever resistance they did ultimately encountered late that afternoon could have only been an increase on what they might have faced with a swift advance at 07:30. So that is the place where swifter advance was possible. The Irish Guards had suffered badly the first day, so I understand their reluctance to smash ahead. But if that formation was spent it should have been rotated out before dawn. These delays only made the Germans better able to obstruct the road. According to the one British officer Major Hibbert of 1st para starting here https://youtu.be/50ogHjrQFBE?t=2282 in this video they had disabled the charges on the Bridge.So if accurate and I believe he would know Horrocks tankers sitting back on the Nijmegen Bridge could have made it.But they didn't move even though elements of the 82nd wanted to carry the fight forward.It's interesting....and unfortunate
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  2100. Mikey you poor trampled cabbage leaf Monty was awful at commanding. Terrible. As in, no fooking good . The mongrel got 1100 airmen and Paras killed in one day crossing the Rhine after Patton,Hodges and the 291st Engineers crossed down river at Oppenheim and Remagen with 70 casualties - too bad you dad wasn't one of them,then we'd not have to listen to history pulled from your posterior. Have your case worker read it to you
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  2101. That''s a fact how about Alan Brooke and Admiral Ramsay you twisted tosser.What kind of idiot would disagree with these men.Monty even admitted he faffed it up,shit on any dead GIs lately Vile? From a PHD at King's College who lectured @ Sandhurst From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely Brooke was moved to write I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem From a Pulitzer Prize Winner From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding *"a bad mistake on my part"
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  2102. Oh really you mallethead when they were facing the Tommies there were King Tigers everywhere.When they were facing GI's they were vastly depleted & battered .You flip-flop with your version of the facts hoping it'll go unnoticed .You are not even a good bull shitter much less a reputable slappy.People can tell you're lying when your lips are moving.
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  2103. Um,no the petulant tosser demanded and got his wish,then disappeared as it came apart just another in his long string of misadventures. You lie almost as much as he did Ardennes 1944,By Antony Beevor,p.14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. "The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later" page 19 Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944:p. 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  2104. oh when was that,you get more creative as the yrs go by,remember you uncle sitting in channel and you attending lectures.And now daddy's a hero - piss off.Just like Burns funny you baskeville's didn't mention it 2-3 yrs ago.Go to see your creativety didn't desert you like your knowledge.You've lied once and that has been continuously Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2105. The books in English,read it you knob as those other guys have.Rather have your handler read them to you - juvenile. More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2106. John Cornell cackled Monty did more to win the ground war in the west than any other commander. ------------------------------------------------------------------- You've done enough drugs to send sniffer dogs into early retirement .Continents drift apart faster than Monty ever moved. Going 64 miles up an elevated lane with no room for maneuver with ditches and marshes on both sides is the idea of an idiot.Hell the Germans were blocking the advance with Panzerfausts
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  2107.  @T.S.Birkby  great job he's an imposter and knows it
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  2108.  @lyndoncmp5751  ya OK john why was ULTRA picking up their dispatches? BTW he has a PHD in History Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 243 How many Panther Tanks both the 9th and 10th SS had just before Market-Garden: 7 Sept,1944 The 9th SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen, which was commanded by 31 year old Lieutenant Colonel Walter Harzer, had 3,500 men,five tanks plus assualt guns The 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg, which was led by 38 year old SS Brigadefuehrer Heinz Harmel, had 6,000 men,20 Panther Tanks, 40 armored personal carriers, and several guns (both flak and howitzers) That's 25 tanks and 40 APC with 20mms mounted with Flak & Howitzers on Sept 7th
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  2109. Book and page not vague name dropping .He got those numbers from Marcel Zwarts and German Armor at Arnhem.With ruhr near by and allied supplies 499 miles away in Cherbourg and Monty ignoring the Scheldt estuary and the biggest port on the Altanic/Channel plus th 64mile elevated lane with no room for maeuver and marshes on both sides is the idea of an idiot
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  2110. You make me larf "Mike's research",that's a stretch even for you - did you find that in the Lyndon Library 🤣Whittled down to nothing? there was no fighting until the 17th they were in fact refitting. Not only did Victor Graebner's 9th have APCs they had half tracks had mounted 20mm AA guns in them. From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p111 Viktor Graebner of 9th SS Panzer had 30 armored halftracks,10 - 8 wheeled armored cars and a number of trucks This plan got blasted 3 miles in when Panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans and continued to collapse on it's self going forward .No amount of your carnival barking gets Monty off of the hook. Once again cornhole you fall back on blaming men who were tasked to do the impossible. *Mike'sResearch*,Jeebis now I've heard it all. Unlike Montgomery - Model was an actual Field Marshall. I'd say Monty appeared lost but the sad fact was he never appeared at all From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced - And that's from the Irish Guards and Germans. It was his crap plan by the 20th Model was bringing more tanks and artillary in by rail from the near by Ruhr
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  2111. As a Dutch poster stated who lives there and studied the battle Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come? How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT do the same ? Not in September, not in October and not in November
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  2112. No because they didn't need to as the Paras had no artillary dropped yet - or very little, Model kept the tanks back in and around Arnhem keeping them flexible not static. There was a Dutch poster on this board that explained it all.You'll stop at nothing to get monty off of the hook - the lying a-hole was literally getting his picture painted - then got scarce when the news was coming in.That didn't stop the berk from reporting to IKE/Brooke and the Press that everything was going great guns. That they later figured out.And Both Buckingahm and Atkinson mentioned those numers."at that time" as a lot of hardwar got left or obliterated at Falasie.And had Monty not faffed that up Netherlands may never have happened
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  2113. Center of Military History United States Army The European Theater of Operations THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN by Charles B. MacDonald Page122 By 10 September, the day when General Eisenhower approved the operation, the British had remarked that "Dutch Resistance sources report that battered panzer formations have been sent to Holland to refit, and mention Eindhoven and Nijmegen as the reception areas." A few days later the SHAEF G-2 announced that these Panzer formations were the 9th SS Panzer Division and presumably the 10th SS Panzer Division Page 143 The 9th SS Panzer was the stronger with 1 armored infantry regiment, 1 artillery battalion, 2 assault gun batteries, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 1 company of Panther (Mark V) tanks, and increments Of engineers and antiaircraft troops. The 10th SS Panzer probably had 1 armored infantry regiment, 2 artillery battalions, 1 reconnaissance battalion, 1 engineer battalion, and 1 anti aircraft battalion. Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 243 How many Panther Tanks both the 9th and 10th SS had just before Market-Garden:7 Sept,1944Page 243 -The 9th SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen, which was commanded by 31 year old Lieutenant Colonel Walter Harzer, - 3,500 men, -five tanks plus assualt guns -The 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg, which was led by 38 year old SS Brigadefuehrer Heinz Harmel, - 6,000 men -20 Panther Tanks -40 armored personal carriers, and several guns (both flak and howitzers) so That's at least 25 tanks and 40 APC with MG-42s mounted with Flak & Howitzers on Sept 7th From Retreat to the Reich by Samuel W.Mitcham Jr.,page 244 The US 82nd Airborne was also tied up in heavy fighting in Nijmegen against elements of the 9th SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion which was reinforced by I Battalion/22nd SS Panzer Grenadier Regiment(part of the 10th SS Division). Still the Allies might have won the Battle had the armored advance not been slow .By September 19th they were still miles south of Nijmegen trying to push an entire Corp down a single road.
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  2114. There were also 4 Jagdpanzer's IV and an 88 in Hunner Park on the 18th.But of course XXX Corp crossed the Bridge then stopped on the 20th.Graebner was killed but the 9th wasn't out of action you tosser
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  2115. 1st off quit giving yourself the thumbs up you bent freak. Afraid YouTube is going to delete your lyndon alias also :face-blue-smiling:The only thing superceding your bullshit is the willingness to post it.Thats why Graebner left a small part of his force to corner Frost - who bought his golf clubs BTW. And go big game hunting for the 82nd,unfotunately we foolishly believed the british tankers would move - thats why WE gave them Shermans and the 82 took 5 of 6 bridges. And Frosts unit were in buildings and couldn't hold half of one. Because Monty went and hid and Horrocks,Dempsey and Vandeluer sat in the tanks until 2:30 in the afternoon watching the Transports fly over. Maybe if they got off their tea drinking bums and left early in the morning they would have made bridge at Zon before it was blown. ya Empire - sure tell it to Europe who had ALL watched that Island asylum abandone them time and again just to suck up to big brother making sure the same thing didn't happen to them
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  2116. you and history have a fleeting acquaintance Monty the poof didn't show up I've already quoted the Irish Guards,Germans and GIs that all state the advance was slow or stopped and a debacle from stem to stern.The Irish Guards were the only unit that showed any esprit de corp.But more than uppity little nothing bernard
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  2117. Spot on Chris
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  2118. He didn't mention anything about Dunkirk or Singapore - just the obvious - Monty was an Idiot
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  2119. Any asshole trying to squeeze a whole column of armor down a 64 mile elevated lane with no room for manuever that was was stopped repeatedly with panzerfausts is an idiot.Anyone with 70 to reflect and still thinking it's a good idea is a steaming pile
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  2120. How would you know you had your head so far up bernards backside it was to dark to read. But if you need a refresher here was where we found you British forces were being "strategically evacuated" from 1940 Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk 1941 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya 1942 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore The USA gave Monty 4 yrs to cross a crummy channel so the GIs sailed 3500 miles of ocean so Monty could tag along the last 30 across a channel
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  2121. because it was Monty/Horrocks cock up - that's why
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  2122. He should have ordered the gummy bear Carrington to loose his skirt and get moving. At least he tried fighting unlike Monty
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  2123. XXX corp saw it,crossed it then stopped over 3 days from the start
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  2124. @Answer Questions really forgot which one that was but it's definitely true.he's evidently back tracking I won't even mention the sites as he'll go back and delete those too.But clearly others(and myself) were mentioning Cornell and Lyndon's name is magically there. Like Blisterhead Burns with Peate and Pierre - all calling the 82nd a disgrace.But Lyndon's making thee EXACT same arguments as Cornhole - all designed to get Monty off of the hook. I mean really look at all the problems up/down the 70 miles and Monty not around - tells one everything they need to know
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  2125. He'd still say stupid shit like Montgomery the Best allied general and absolutely stated it was the 82nd fault.Ignoring the fact in 3 miles the amored column had 9 tanks taken out by Panzerfaust teams and that it only made 7 miles the 1st day and Joe Vandeluer and his cousin stopped the Irish Guards to go swimming and entertain some reporter tart.But still I won't blame them this disjointed debacle came to a screeching halt in many places.Monty bragged,boasted and promised great things then disappeared - to get his fookin' picture painted From Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray. That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him. Montgomery & his colleagues threw away all that they had learned since 1939 about the speed & reaction of Hitlers Army. Its brilliance at improvisation, its dogged skill in defense, its readiness to punish allied mistakes. Montgomery’s own staff was opposed to the plan, as was his own chief of staff. With the principal organizations scattered in far-flung locations they never met to coordinate and resolve Market Garden’s obvious flaws or question its contradictions
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  2126. No cornhole here is what was said you sad spin doctor.The Wehrmacht already ran Monty off the continent once. Um,they weren't impressed Ladislas Farago - Patton: Ordeal and Triumph (New York: Astor-Honor, Inc., Inc., 1964), p. 505 'If Manstein was Germany's greatest strategist during World War II, Balck has strong claims to be regarded as our finest field commander. He has a superb grasp of tactics and great qualities of leadership' - Major-General von Mellenthin General Balck, commenting on the Lorraine Campaign, said: "Patton was the outstanding tactical genius of World War II. I still consider it a privilege and an unforgettable experience to have had the honor to oppose him From The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523 Erwin Rommel - "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces,,Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare.The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education" Patton:A Genius for War,by Carlo D'Este,page 815 General Fritz Bayerlein,the able commander of the Panzer Lehr Division and a veteran of North Africa,asses the escape of Rommel's Panzer Afrika Corp after Alamein: I do not think General Patton would have left us get away so easily Their Words
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  2127. Perhaps his mother had just a few more 1st person facts than a revisionist Monty Fanboy
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  2128. Monty shit the bed and Eurpopeans don't need your distorted view of the facts.OH but you've attended lectures and your uncle sat out in the channel,absolutely smashing
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  2129. Ya your obvious demented plan of absolving the rancid runt Monty of his guilt in bringing on famine in Northern Europe.
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  2130. Monty was a lying piece of shit not unlike you 2 daisies
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  2131. From a Pulitzer Prize Winner,not the Cornhole Chronicles From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary.Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  2132. No you are
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  2133. should have known better at least as for as Monty was concerned
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  2134. nope Strategic Bombing of the Reich did you unread fanboi. Monty with the backbone of a jellyfish didn't show up. Or didn't your head master fill you in on the unpleasant fact that your empire wasn't all of that
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  2135. that is a fact and TIK is gamer that is either slovenly in his research or deliberate in his ignorance of Monty's abilities and operations. The coward bernard NEVER showed up on the field of battle,it doesn't take much effort to read any of the books that point it out
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  2136. Nope Monty's baby and he failed like everywhere else,the coward didn't even show up,like Field Marshall Model
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  2137.  @johnceglick8714  yes you told me in another thread I suggest you go to other market boards because these tossers try blmaing the GIs for his many cock ups and TIK is the chief instigator - ignors/covers the Britsh complicity going all the way back to the Belgian Border
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  2138. UM no, congratulations on all you've ignored ? There was only one taken out and they were only 8 miles from Frost's unit at the North end of the bridge but stop they did. There were only security picketts and one AT gun between them that is why the 82nd crossed the river to accompany the tanks and they lost 51 KIA and 138 wounded. The Germans told all of this to Kershaw before he wrote It Never Snows in September
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  2139. Little villa go blame some dead GIs like you usualy do for Monty's cock up that he didn't have the nads to show up for.Congrats you and your cyber psychos are coming up on your 10th anniversary. Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2140.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  🤮 How many times does it have to be pointed out - that's exactly why Horrocks asked Tucker/Cooke to cross the Waal in the 1st place to carry the fight in other wise they could have waited and crossed under the cover of nite - but no it was suppose to be urgent.The GIs should have recognized that fact when Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border town of Neerpelt, until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:35 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown
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  2141. Once again davie you picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue "It Never Snows in September" by Robert J. Kershaw,p,129 Capt Viktor Graebner had a mixture of 22 Armoured vehicles at his disposal,APCs and half tracks some of which mounted 75 mm guns.They represented the highest concentration of armoured vehicles in the 9 SS.All at the minimum,possesed a machine gun mount 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw ,p.141 German defenses put 2 - 20 mm flak cannon placed at the access points of both bridges (rail & road) able to fire across and mutually support each other 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 143 18 september,south of Grave from Schijndel towards the station at Erde S.W of Veghel.General Student "I was able to observe a flak platoon attached from the Reichsarbeitsdienst who fired with both their 88 guns at a single American Paratroopers sniping from high buildings,harassing our attack from the flanks* 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p.194 both the 82nd Airborne and British Guards Armored were aware they were up against seasoned SS troops of about 500 that held the road held the road bridge.They were supported by an 88 mm gun on the traffic circle and 4 - 47 mm and a 37 mm with mortars in the Hunner Park SS Capt.Schwappacher was supproting battle groups "when ever the enemy was ready to advance onto the bridge we hit them with the full impact of an artillary barrage which immediately halted the attacks where upon out infantry,reinforced were able to to maintain their positions 'It Never Snows in September' by Robert J. Kershaw,map reference pages 192-193 The German Defense of Nijmegan 17-20 September 1944. The KampfgruppeHenke initially established a line of defense outposts based on the two traffic circles south of the railway and road bridges on 17 September.The 10SS Kampfgruppe Reinhold arrived and established the triangular defense with Euling on the road bridge,Henke and other units defending the approaches of the railway bridge,and his own Kampfgruppe on the home bank in the village of Lent. A surprise assault river crossing by the U.S. 3/504 combined with a tank assault on the road bridge on 20 September unhinged the defense.The Waal had been secured by 1900.There was nothing further barring the road to Arnhem 17 kilometers to the North.
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  2142. Cornell keeps repeating tripe hoping some one as whack as him wonders by From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway "Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding *"a bad mistake on my part"
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  2143. MONTY GARDEN
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  2144. There was simply no bypassing of Lorraine. It had to be conquered, cleared, and the German divisions defeated or pushed back. Metz was considered one of the most formidable citadels in the world with it's 43 reinforced concrete artillery equipped bunkers that were mined in the front by Gen Herman Balck. The Germans had flooded the Moselle and the Seille rivers and they still took it with all of the moats, mines, interlocking machine guns fields of fire There were no roads across the flooded plains that would support either amor or trucks and they still took it unlike the British in 1815. It had important transport road hubs and communication leading to the Rhine river. It was a military necessity to clear it of German Wehrmacht divisions to gain avenues of approach to the Rhine. The supply lines for Patton's 3rd Army & Hodges 1st Army were overextended in September, 1944 well over 400 miles from Cherbourg. The air transports used for the FAILED Operation Market-Garden should have been used for fuel and ammo deliveries to supplement truck transport. The Lorraine campaign lasted from 1 Sep to Dec,not just 9 days in the Netherlands, 6,657 were killed over 3 months and they took 75,000 German PoWs, compared with 17,000 casualties at Market Garden in just 9 days (which was more than the invasion of Normandy) including nearly 2,000 Brits and Poles killed before taking the American killed into account. Market Garden had nearly 3 times the casualties per day. Op Queen and the Hurtgen Forest battles (of which Queen was part) were costly failures, also, but the same argument applies - the period was far longer and the average losses less together with much higher Axis casualties and PoWs and they do not turn Market Garden into a success. Market Garden was a failure. Look at a map - where the hell do think they were going to punch thru?THEY HAD TO FIGHT THRU - that is why it's called a war.Stalin himself pointed this out to Churchill at Tehran and accused the British of stalling - look that up Patton wasn't going to leave 25,000 Heer soldiers behind him at Metz that fell to 3rd Army. You are simply a fanboy continually ignoring military logic. Unlike Monty in the Netherlands who took 6 more months to cross the Rhine. Where he had to go back and open up the port of Antwerp on November 28th
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  2145. You don't read evidently mum or d-day daddy didn't either
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  2146. You revel in it Johnny,why haven't you responded to the peole pounding the snot out of you on felton's board? You even deleted your baffoonery,how come johnny?hitting the scotch while hitting the send button never ends up well for you .Same thing over on Mark's Airplane Board, you're a treasure Burns and they just wanted to bury you? If they knew you were in the home for the disadvantaged they wouldn't have been so harsh I'm sure
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  2147. Johnny they're waiting for you on Felton's board enmasse,perhaps you should explain your self. You poor trampled cabbage leaf bernard like you was always the last - in his case to cross the rhine. BTW that was with Simpson's 9th US Army after his disasterous casualties he took.IKE left him over because the the Gerries were running to the Western Allies to stay out of the gulags - where you belong
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  2148. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan. Seems like Monty forgot that basic fact of Warfare. The commander who underestimates his enemy ( especially when his own intelligence apparatus is ringing alarm bells ) is a fool.The subordinate commanders did not plan the over all operation, Monty did.Stop fetching history from the Cornhole ChroniclesThe dweeb bragged he had all the supplies he was going to get to General Crerar. Here you go from Crerar himself From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies.When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions .He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays.The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him Marshall,IKE and SHAEF were done catering to the pathetic Pedo.Patton out performed him standing still - literally.LOOK Here From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group. IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to the left flank(21st Army) through out the campaign Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies. IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks,yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks
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  2149.  @nicholasconder4703  no Britain had good soldiers he wasn't one of them .Read Desert Generals by Correli Barnett,Monty couldn't lose in the desert - but he tried
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  2150.  @nicholasconder4703  good point most don't know at the battle of Fredricksburg Meade actually was pushing back Stonewall Jackson's Corp.But Burnside wasn't too sharp and kept attacking Marye's Heights on the other side of that field and didn't support Meade
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  2151.  @nicholasconder4703  didn't know that thanx,What is a sin was G-- ----D Dan Siclkes .He totally screw things up almost cost a victory at Gettysburg .Got wounded then ran back to the papers in washington and told them lies how he saved the day.He was politically connected and many believed him.When in fact it was Meade's fine generalship all along.He was a topographical engineer who knew how to pick a defensible ground in which to wage war and cover all the avenues of aproach.Shameful how history treated him. I think Monty took his que on lying to the media from Sickles.They both were so much alike and creeps
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  2152.  @nicholasconder4703  Lightning Joe Collins did alot of the shoving at the North Shoulder of the Ardennes.Collins found himself on the northern side of the German 'bulge' at the start of their Ardennes offensive. He played a major part in the defeat of the German attack, disengaging on his eastern front and turning south to attack the northern shoulder of the 'bulge', blocking the German transport routes through St. Vith. And Sickles sullied Meade's name well enough at Gettysburg with lincoln being pissed that the army didn't follow up Lee leaving.Which was totally unreasonable after the 3 day blood bath. One of the few times Mr Lincoln had a brain fart
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  2153.  @nicholasconder4703  The union army's had gotten their asses kicked for 6 months .Do you realize the carnage left after a battle and victory of that magnitude .In a driving rainstorm.Lincon lost his common sense for one of the few times in that war
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  2154.  @nicholasconder4703  I thought the same thing.Hodges was like Monty only didn't have the big mouth and ego but faffed around alot.Actually Troy Middleton basically took over in Hodges sector and performed brillaintly with VIII Corp during the Bulge.Hodges basically had a breakdown when 24 German divisions attacked just 6 US.He also fought in Sicily and Salerno and despised and could have replaced Mark Clark who should have been removed also,him and MacAthur were Monty clones - all hat no cattle as they say in Texas.Middleton and Collins should have replaced Clark and Hodges.Monty didn't really do shyt in the Ardennes as he wanted to withdraw and Collins and Gen Harmon ignored him and went on the offensive.Monty was quoted as telling Collins "don't attack up just one road" - oh gosh I wonder where he remembered that from.Auchinlech should have been recalled as monty was ass and won only with overwhelming advantages
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  2155. ya they should have shown dug out Doug the door,he didn't need to return - really
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  2156.  @nicholasconder4703  good post but he still skeedaddled and there was a fantastic tactical general under his command named Walter Krueger this guy was tactically and logistically dialed in and he accomplished much that MAC was given or took credit for.Disagree the Pacific was fine under Nimitz.Watched some great docus about how MacArthur rehersed that landing of him coming ashore many times.The Philippino's may have been grateful but that was because of the GIs prescense not just Doug.He actually had his own PR team with dozens of people getting his name in print and on the air waves any way he could.Good men suffered and died or were never the same again and he was looking for a headline .Save Monty there were none egotistically worse
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  2157.  @nicholasconder4703  he was on the winning side simply not enamored with him,look at everything that was accomplished in his abscense.I'll have to let you talk to my History Professor friend.He got caught with his pants down during and after the initial attacks - he himself wasn't prepared with rumors swirling of war.Kimmel got the axe many think Mac should have to also - we'll just disagree on him. I have the utmost respect for those who fought under him however .It was a shit move him grandstanding with reels running when Nimitz,the Navy ,Marines and Army personnel paid the price.There is also a story of Nimitz sending a certain ship over to pick mac up for the Surrender ceremony,not good enough had to send one of the Iowa Class battleships or sumsuch
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  2158.  @nicholasconder4703  well there were plenty asleep at the switch.Guys like Kimmel took the fall.Ironically the local PBS channel has been running the docu "The War" reruns.The battle of Manila thought they said like 6,000 GIs were KIA,16000 Japanese soldiers and 100,000 civilians - who the IJNs mowed down when pulling out.They were interviewing some soldiers captured in'42 & imprisoned in Japan who were veterans of the Philippines - man there are no words.They said they cheered the B-29s as they bombed the Japanese home islands as it was payback for the brutality they were subjected to
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  2159. The movie was so accurate that Monty didn't show up in it either. When Ryan wanted to know what Gavin or Harmel thought or did - he asked them. His books have pictures many here should like that -of him talking to German/American/British officers and soldiers
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  2160. No they didn't it was Sept 20th over 72 hrs Later From 'It never Snows in September' by Robert J.Kershaw,map reference pages 192-193 The German Defense of Nijmegan 17-20 September 1944.The KampfgruppeHenke initially established a line of defense outposts based on the two traffic circles south of the railway and road bridges on 17 September.The 10SS Kampfgruppe Reinhold arrived and established the triangular defense with Euling on the road bridge,Henke and other units defending the approaches of the railway bridge,and his own Kampfgruppe on the home bank in the village of Lent.A surprise assault river crossing by the U.S. 3/504 combined with a tank assault on the road bridge on 20 September unhinged the defense.The Waal had been secured by 1900.There was nothing further barring the road to Arnhem 17 kilometers to the North. 1900 that 7 PM 3 days after a morning start taking creative license with the truth - nothing new from you.Here's another Jewel From - 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 215 Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit:The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent.If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." From - 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. '*Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'It was a lost chance*' Try actually reading the book instead of claiming to
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  2161. Um no they had the most objectives and the furthest apart.Unlike Carrington and Monty they tried and Frost knew this From Citizen Soldiers,p129 there were 267 German dead on the railroad bridge alone,plus many hundreds wounded/captured,no one could guess how many had fallen into the river .Lt Gen Miles Dempsey commanding the 2nd Army shook Gavin's hand I am proud to meet the commander of the greatest Division in the world today he said Horrocks commented "this operation of Cook's was the best and most gallant attack I have ever seen carried out in my life .No wonder the leading paratroopers were furious that we did not push for Arnhem.They felt they had risked their lives for nothing,but it was impossible,owing to the confusion which existed in Nijmegan,with houses burning and the British and US forces all mixed up From Citizen Soldiers,p130 LT Col John Frost put the blame on the Guards Armored Division.Standing on the Bridge on the 40th Anniversary of the Battle,he looked west as he had so often,four decades earlier and got to talking about the Guards Armor and their relatively light casualties they suffered compared to the 1st Airborne and the 82nd Airborne.He shook his fist and roared'Do you call that fighting"
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  2162. No they didn't you steaming pile - Bernard will see you in the TUB now
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  2163. Monty will see you in the Channel now Johnnie for the FULL MONTY,grab your loofah
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  2164. Monty was an ankle biter passing himself off as a head hunter ♦ You think Monty could have inconvenienced himself to attend his own operational debacle that after the war he fessed up to? Largest Air Drop in History up until that point and the poof couldn't be bothered? There were cock ups all the way back to the Belgian Border and it didn't involve Gavin or the 82nd. Your favotire color - yellow ♦ Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:30 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown ♦Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bring the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but Monty's pathetic planning.This operation is a prime example of the clownish incompetence of his command. ♦ And why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 4 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site
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  2165.  @johnburns4017  um No they wouldn't even fly over Germany in the DAY let alone fly thru Germany to Poland you bullshit artist.The only thing they dropped is you on their head 🤣
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  2166. Burns you couldn't handle France let alone the Russkies they drop Monty like a bad habit.Monty never crossed the Channel until Stalin and FDR told him it was OK getting Dunkirked and all,where your uncles followed Bernard up the gang planks
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  2167. Puddles will your family be visiting you there at the home for the holidays. You haven't had your priviliges revoked again have you? Perhaps the Vicar will stop by for a spell and help with the troubles - he's a nice man.Hide your girly magazines 1st that got uncomfortable last time.And take down that poster of Monty with your lipstick on it
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  2168. General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops .At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend."With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions". General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt
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  2169. Pretty much accumulative history not by actual scholars accessing military archives and of course these guys Arnhem.Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes:'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ From Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle.There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed.We knew what even a handful of Germans could do - they were so damned efficient. As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said "Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem" Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.” "He had made an awful mistake. I didn't like him at all." - Leo Major, the most decorated Canadian soldier of WWII pages 2 and 3 https://web.archive.org/web/20150204042341/http://www2.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=fbcc446c-231f-4781-940a-3ebc3dee9f94&p=2
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  2170. When your ankle monitor is removed read some history
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  2171. Ya and Monty stood behind you Lucien
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  2172. No new evidence the Germans pointed out XXX Corp being late then stopping.Sounds like revision
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  2173. Seriously see a neuroligist,then the Vicar
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  2174.  @johnburns4017  Your disturbance or scandal of the glands is quite a mess.
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  2175. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  2176. From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem"
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  2177. Poulussen is a hack a photographer who wrote a book and couldn't identify an M-1.But since he likes monty the slappies here flock to him like pidgeons to popcorn
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  2178. ya well he's probably just 27 yrs old
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  2179. More bollocks 4 tanks show up.Horrocks said on time in fine order.Neither happened and Monty wasn't around and later admitted it was mistake
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  2180. Why you obviously haven't
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  2181. Irving Burns - Guards Armored and 43 Wessex just arrived in Nijmegen,tell them the war is over and all is forgiven. And get that head wound checked out.I think Monty's is getting a little rough with you in the tub again
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  2182. Neilands writing novels,the 82nd had nothing in their order of battle about 1,000 tanks
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  2183. Monty left 4 months before Clark took Rome.Officially the narrative was to "HELP" plan Market Garden.But the truth of the matter was to save face for the rancid runt who the press started in on after Sicily/Italy and the fact....well you know the 30 mile channel and the mighty British Empire tip toeing around it.Even Rommel was like WTF
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  2184. Burns you scream like you are caught in a fan belt again
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  2185. Monty's statue or Monty have never been seen in Arnhem
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  2186. Oh really then he must not have been fighting in Arnhem if he knew so much about Nijmegan but knowing your proclivity to make shit up I'll have to check it out my self
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  2187. Good take but TIK is a revisionist hack a modern fraudulent fauntleroy that is under the influence of stupid. A lot of lads with the British inferiority complex that were weakest of the allied armies with the most humiliating defeats. Being "evacuated" from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 -Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 -Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Sad but expected So, they rewrite the books, on their own terms. And make claims, that God only knows where they found them.
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  2188. https://www.historynet.com/eisenhower-fire-1944-45.htm Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them. Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance. Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through them and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe.
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  2189. MOnty attempted to run away from the Bulge also.Generals Earnest Harmon and Lightning Joe Collins ignored the pathetic pratt and went on the offensive.Get lost kid you are a carnival barker using Monty's delusional drivel to get himelf out of the mess he made
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  2190. Thicko I'm not arguing with you a meth lab laureate.I've left the quotes and others agree.Even Dempsey said" not trying was a big problem in the 21st Army" - no one believes you, XXX Corp was 24 hrs behind then sat another 18.The would'nt move toward Arnhem.Monty,Horrocks and Carrington screwed the pooch.Out of Kindness you were carried across the Channel - cant drive your tanks for you too
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  2191.  @giovannipierre5309  Burns You've done enough drugs to send sniffer dogs into early retirement.After the GI's arrived Monty never got his sorry arse tossed into the Channel again - imagine that.Monty set world records swimming for the boats.Zhukov,Guderian,Patton,IKE,Uncle Joe even FDR couldn't believe this guy fancied himself anything.But you are anonymous and only embarrass yourself in posts
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  2192. Puddles you appear to be getting tired opening/closing your many different accounts.Why don't you crawl in to TIK's lap so he can pat you on your empty head
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  2193.  @johnburns4017  the only A-Bomb England had was the Asshole Bomb - YOU
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  2194.  @johnburns4017  you yammering yeti - get that head wound patched.The Tommies were sitting on the White Cliffs of Dover when the GI's arrived.Something about those mean,nasty Germans and a spanking.Your boys cheered up when they saw the emerging world power arrive.Not really their fault though "lions lead by jack asses" as Ludendorf said.The Big Mule being Montgomery of course and you his little jack ass
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  2195. John Giovanni says the misguided,unfortunate,schmuck that posts every hour around the clock.Never evidently taking time to sleep - go look your self.Stopping only to change out of one account and into another just give the illusion that someone agrees with you- and you know that is accurate you bent freak
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  2196. Again Derp monty did nothing and Churchill addressed parliament stating the obvious - it was an American Victory as GB lost only 200 men KIA were the GI's lost between 8500 - 10,000 KIa 20,000 missing and over 80,000 casualties and Monty was forced to either resign or or apologize to IKE( a 2nd time BTW)Monty stepped in as Bradley got stuck in Luxembourg but did nothing as General Collins and Harmon went on the attack Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2197. IKE took 1st and 9th US Armies away and gave them to competent commanders . IKE was mocking Monty because he actually moved, go reread actual sources - theyre in English.It's believed Monty had functioning Aspergers Syndrome and apparently you share this unfortunate affliction. From a Pulitzer Prize Winner - and you just pull it From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 407 Churchill had cabled Montgomery "I greatly fear the dwindling of the British Army is a factor in France as it will affect our right to express our opinion upon strategic and other matters" From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page415 Montgomery wrote on December 15th "that Hitler's plight was so dire that he cannot stage major offensive operations" Oops,on December 16th the Ardennes offensive began.The twistwed twirp wasn't even right for a day .Like Market Garden he thought they were done .Now the idiot popped of again - just like you.Please keep posting I like demolishing your novels
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  2198.  @giovannipierre5309  you're a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.Keep quoting Hamilton you'll get to the part that outs Monty for the creep that he is
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  2199. Joe vandeleur sat on his british backside at the belgian border as the planes flew overhead at 2:30 in the afternoon -did he think he'd catch up? Then Lary,Curly and Moe I mean Monty Horrocks and vandaleur left the bridging equipment in the back of the column as they marched towards 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers and canals.It appears as monty got lost when the sad fact was he never showed up at all - he had the spine of a gummy bear
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  2200. Puddles that's why Horrocks and the Brits that witnessed it called it uncommon valor.A term that will never be confused with your family tree you troll. Your Uncles were at home cleaning the latrine's at the Burlesque
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  2201. @Achilles Smith burns is a slappy and makes shit up hoping someone more ignorant than himself will happen by and believe him.Oh and he's in the Governments care - with internet priviliges
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  2202. You mean you Yetis on earth Johnny Giovanni
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  2203. Keep posting everyone just looks that much better.See Puddles I respond to Johnny Giovanni and you forget to sign out of your sock account - you're a rather dim bulb,then sign in/out of other accounts to give you thumbs up - you are one sick tosser,Are you Lucian Treub?
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  2204. Is the handler at the home editing your posts now.Seems your alias shows up at precisely the same time as you.Coincidence I'm sure
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  2205. Get help you whack Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2206. Village Anus I already provided a link to buy the book on Amazon for you .Is that concept a little too coplex? .And if you have someone read that message board to you,another poster a page later states the exact same thing .You are a one legged man in an ass kicking contest Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  2207. 🤣
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  2208. Boy Burny, you delusional knob are your bath toys a radio and a toaster? Because your circuits are burnt
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  2209. The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here, Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth. Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: "Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. we might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine." Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02. General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities."
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  2210. There were hundreds involved in the D-Day planning most notably Admiral Ramsay.Monty Puhleeze he was one of 3 senior officers of the BEF who with drew from France.And didn't come back over for 4 yrs - that's not Hollywood - that's your Empire's arrogance
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  2211. That was actually Britsh Intel,and it made perfect sense as ULTRA was picking up radio traffic of tanks.Factoring two attacks coming out of the Ardennes,one of them shoving monty into the channel and the other resulting in the Bulge it would stand to reason.But nothing in operational orders suggested 1000 tanks in the Reichswald.Neilands I believe actually thru that out thereThe gerries were experts at camouflaging their tanks because of air attacks
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  2212. Exactly what was he? no commander obviously worse at that than you commenting
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  2213. You have lied once and that has been continuosly ,qiut rewriting the text,that's why you don't leave out chapter and page -The only way Monty was the tying down of German divisions was by the Germans shooting holes in the troops and depleting German ammunition . And hurting the Germans fists with his face. More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2214. And the were virually unopposed as wehrmacht was falling back after the Horrific bombing of Falaise/ I'll take Horrocks words for it,Monty over played his hand in the desert repeatedly ignoring advice of front line soldiers The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.213-14 On 29 August Horrocks XXX Corp set out on a drive that some conclude might have altered the course of the war. They advanced 250 miles through northern France and into Belgium unopposed and captured the strategic port of Antwerp virtually with out a fight. Horrocks admitted as much "we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might have even have succeeded in bouncing across the Rhine - if we had taken the chance and and carried straight on" There were no significant German forces between Horrocks and the Rhine. But instead of ordering Horrocks forward on September 4 Montgomery halted him. (Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.170,by R.W. Thompson) Montgomery failed to exploit his opportunity by failing to cross the Albert Canal and advance down the Walcheren Rd to capture the coastal batteries situated along the Scheldt that prevented shipping from reaching the port of Antwerp and delivering critical supplies to the Allied Armies massing along the Siegfried Line. The Germans quickly took advantage of Monty's failure by sending in heavy reinforcements to the Walcheren area. It would take 21 st Army group more than 2 months to clear the region of enemy troops R.W.Thompson who was an Intelligence Officer in the British Army during WWII,also lays the blame for the army's failure with the Field Marshall "At the crucial hour leadership was lacking,the decision that only Field Marshall Montgomery could have exercised for which the hour demanded on seizing options and opportunities" (Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.171,by R.W. Thompson) Horrocks: The General Who Led From the Front,by Philip Warner,p.111 - "There was only a single low grade division ahead of Horrocks on Sept 4. it was spread over a 50 mile front along the Albert Canal. Horrocks believed that this could have been brushed aside and XXX Corps could have gone on to cross the Rhine."
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  2215.  @majorintel9623  This was Monty Garden pure and simple,TIK is a monty fanboi and by no meas a Historian
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  2216. little villa bernard will see you for your FULL MONTY in the channel, bring you loofah you poof - don't have to make that up unlike you these participants were there and inteviewed by British war coorespondents and Historians Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it "the English stopped for tea" ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it "the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move" While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try too hard despite the urgency of the situation. Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured. LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.219 "Montgomery went over my head" Air Marshall Conningham recalled after the war. "Month after month he did that; until he had his failure at Arnhem - then they made him listen. He violated all command channels" "Monty's water logged summaries tried to hide glaring weaknesses of a hopelessly flawed plan" - Sabastian Ritchie.
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  2217.  @johnburns4017  you've lied ONCE and that has been continuously. Now pick up your little army men off the steps mum is coming home with more comic books for you. And help he with the groceries this time
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  2218. Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  2219. LMAO - loose a friend Johnny?He goes by Lyndon now 🤣
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  2220. No Monty demanded and got his wish and as usual it ran into the sand as berk never showed for his own operation
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  2221. any one you'd source,Burns makes shit up check it yourslf
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  2222.  @johnburns4017  Brian Urquhart has more brains and decency between his toes than your family tree has going back to King Arthur - you pink pantied pratt.Brian Urquhart went on to become Under Secretary General of the United Nations and is still alive you shit stain Go ahead and find Dave Rendall's thread and say that to him.That would be an epic ass-kicking.Unlike your aliases he was a soldier and educated at Sandhurst.And you mop the puddles at the Adult Theater
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  2223. I hope Dave Rendall finds you and pounds you for talking shit about his uncle
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  2224. Jeremiah Blake wrote:Some of Tik's political opinions are well debatable opinions ----------------------------------------------------------------- Very debatable and in fact revisionist in many presentations.And has been for quite some time.TIK calling someone else out is a reflection on himself
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  2225.  @thevillaaston7811  lamented:But you may have read comments YouTube by someone calling themself 'bigwoody, and/or 'Para Dave', in which that person blamed XXX Corps, Carrington, Joe Vandeluer, and other people who were in the British Army at hat time. ----------------------------------- Vandeluer Stopped,Carrington stopped,Monty the perv doesn't even bother show up oh how dare some one point out a bent little freak villa's assinine assertions blaming the GIs because of your inferiority complex of losing you empire and being put in your place - should have let Guderian have you when we had the chancePerhaps when you clean monty's cack out of your eye sockets you'll read or have read to you the shit you smeared on the GIs - all over these boards - much of it has gone missing perhaps even TIK knew he had to clean it up.long before I said a damn thing you and burns were shitting on the GIs over here - and your love interst John cornell who got his account deleted but alas has reemarged as your bint Lyndon Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 Did i get that right little villa? Remember you stating you were here from 2010 - at least it's over on the Angus's WW2 podcast board. You pathetic pillock I never called myself para dave another one wretched from your bloated backside.And you shitting all over an actual veteran Geronimo on his board you pussy - you'd never have the guts to say shit to him face to face and read the information left.This is one big british cock up stem to stern a pissant like you shitting on americans while you give assholes like carrington - the gutless buggar stopped a free pass - the 82nd just 51 KIA and another 138 wounded crossing the waal to take the fight to arnhem,oh but carrington isn't a coward - we'll call him a lord.Read the sources - Germans themselves stated thay could have made it Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,p.309-310. German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points. And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs​ until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial
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  2226. Johnny have them loosen your ankle monitor and the bolts in your neck over there at the home.This debacle made it a whole 3 miles before gerries with Panzerfausts wrecked 9 tanks - this is why you frauds lost an empire.Your mythology won't save you from bernard giving you the full monty. 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p. 215, Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit: The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us."* 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. 'Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'It was a lost chance Even Gerry blamed XXX crawl and renamed it the Burns brigade
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  2227. Johnny The Guards Armored and the 43rd Wessex just arrived in Lent. The war's over, they can go home now-all is forgiven. Even though bernard isn't around to give you the full monty anymore,you can still get all gussied up in your who farted t shirt and out to pickadilly - it's friday.Are you still mopping the puddles at the Burlesque there Johnny? Bet you like the double features
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  2228.  @SamAlley-l9j  Eisenhower caved in because of political considerations. Monty did indeed state his single thrust would take him to Berlin and there were plenty of witnesses. IKE gave Monty preferential treatment @ Caen/Falaise/Arnhem with the same disturbing results. The US kept Britain relevant as IKE knew Russia would replace Germany as the potential enemy and didn't want to show any cracks in the alliance. In other words IKE was playing chess and Monty, well, he was playing with himself Monty was promoted beyond his abilities and accomplishments. Britain had much better Commanders but Winston had to go all in with him after interfering with O'Connor and Auchinleck who had successful campaigns
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  2229. already have do you have the memory span of a goat - your boy failed. Go read the FULL MONTY - that's your hero. Next time you source anything it will be a first.
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  2230. iggy troll monty was a propped up fraud.Patton took both Messina and Palermo the only time thet were on the same stretch of Land. The dithering dolt Monty took neither and never crossed his 30 mile channel until the GIs came 3500 miles to do it for him. Churchill asked IKE to not allow that to happen again as they were already playing 2nd fiddle - and poorly at that.
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  2231. Iggytroll Hollywood had nothing to do with British forces being "evacuated" from Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 You and History have but a fleeting acquaintance
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  2232.  @iggytretiak  lie,deny,alibi as is expected
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  2233.  @iggytretiak  No sources again? well congratulate yourself with the help of spell check and your handler at the home there you've got chortle figured out. Now jump in the channel and bring your loofah,bernard will be by to perform the Full Monty - look that up iggytroll
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  2234. Another clueless monty nutthugger .Patton's 7th army even with Alexander giving his favorite pedo Monty the inside paved highway 124. That was in the American Operational sector,still took both Palermo and Messina by sending Gen Lucien Truscott twice on amphibious landing around Kesselrings troops driving them to leave sicily - almost as fast as Monty had left Dunkirk - you're welcome.Try using the address bar above to relieve me of furthering your education
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  2235. Monty even admitted it you waterhead.Have the nurses take you for a walk in the court yard
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  2236. Over all Officer,Monty owns it,he never showed and not really a Field Marshall - like Model
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  2237. Carlo D'este From the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed by Montgomery From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely Brooke was moved to write I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. Proof this is a bad plan... the first obstacle each force in this plan had was the very plan itself. XXX Corps stuck going up one road, asking for ambush and serious delays (both occurred) The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed.Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  2238. The daisy shows up after the fighting,knowing he'd fail yet again like Sicily and Caen...and you Burns
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  2239. No little Villa they didn't cross until 7 PM at night,like you a day late and a dollar short
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  2240. same evidence you use - from your ample backside. Three miles from the start panzerfaust teams took out 9 shermans blocking the road and stopping the column.General Brian Horrocks and Col. Joe Vandeleur waited for the planes to fly over at 1400 hrs on the 17th.Did they somehow think they would catch up to them when their loads were dropped? After stopping just 4 hrs later.Montgomery owns this disaster. He would have been relieved in the US Army,shot in Germany or Russia.
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  2241. They weren't in Lent until 1900 the 3rd day slappie the your :ord carrington stopped But at least he showed up unlike theat fraud of a Field Marshall- you are tarded there is no doubt about it,repeating the same sad sorry shyt.Take a dip in the channel to cool off - your buddy Bernard would approve
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  2242. Burns you chronic bed wetter if Monty and Horrocks had their heads out of their arses the Bridging equipment would have been up at the front of the column.But that explains why monty got his butt beat much like you in the comment sections. No matter they blamed the poles and everyone else for the lack of command skills
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  2243. Johnny you're experiencing hallucinations again, should I call the Vicar? 30 snore were over 36 hrs late by the time 4 of them crossed the nijmegan bridge they were taking a break from taking a break. Lord Carringtton stopped going no further but at least he showed up unlike the tainted waif bernard. probably hiding in the closet with you and villa
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  2244. Idiot Monty already displayed the single thrust brilliance when market garden blew up in face and circled around and bit them in the ass
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  2245.  @euroyank860  only he's wrong XXX Corp and Monty shit the bed.When is the over all commander not responsible for his own plan - when TIK is revising the story
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  2246. All bullshit Bradley,Patton and Devers were all stopped to supply monty and his narrow thrust and the uppitty pill didn't even have the cajones to show up and direct as it fell apart 3 miles from the Belgian Border My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group.IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to 21st Army through out the Netherlands campaign.Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies.IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks,yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks
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  2247.  @TheImperatorKnight  e3xplain your version of the bent narrative you feed these revisionist slappies.
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  2248. Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 317 Montgomery got along with neither the Americans nor the Canadians.After Dunkirk the French absolutely refused to serve under a British commander.Such widespread mistrust of the little British General did not bode well for future Allied operations in which Monty played a role. From Blood,Sweat and Arrogance,by Gordon Corrigan,page 417-18 National myth has it that Monty took over a defeated,demoralized and badly led 8th Army,and by his own abilities and powers of leadership won the great victory of Alamein and then went on to drive the Germans & Italians out of North Africa in a whirlwind campaign that could not have been achieved by anyone else. We know this because Montgomery has told us so,not only by his masterly grasp of public relations at the time but in one of the most self serving memoirs ever foisted on the reading public From Blood,Sweat and Arrogance,by Gordon Corrigan,page 477 Brooke and the other chiefs of staff should never have allowed Churchill to dictate minor detail,nor to sack Generals and Admirals on a whim(the Air Marshalls got off lightly).Probably the worst example of picking the wrong man and backing him come what may,was in Brooke's constant support for Montgomery,who should have been dismissed once it became clear that he could not operate in a coalition environment,but whose retention soured Anglo-American relations for years after the War
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  2249. Says the scribbler of forgeries as noted by the friend of Cornhole and mine 501 Geronimo.ROTFL
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  2250. The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61 "Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us.He could have done it with out any danger to himself.Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed" Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion.Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery;based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for monty was very weak From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,578 "Monty has only himself to blame for the suspicion with which the Americans treat him" said Admiral Cunningham.the 1st Sea Lord
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  2251. Villa Anuston(Little Hans) quotes losers who got the shit kicked out of themselves making up excuses.Not unlike himself really
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  2252. Villa is the love child of Sgt Schultz and a commoner - clean Monty's cack out of your eyes,next thing he'll tell us Dunkirk belongs up there with the 300 at Thermopylae or the 101st at Bastogne .Monty was tossed into a barn by GIs in the Ardennes.ROTFL.Churchill took everything he could from FDR but a red hot stove.Mighty fine Royals you had there.I won't even mention the little swiss boy,oops
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  2253.  @GiacomoLockhart  Little Villa couldn't be a bigger sucker if he were on the end of a stick
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  2254.  @GiacomoLockhart  they're mischievious gnomes that have a morbid craving for contoversy.If they fell into a pool of tits they'd come up sucking their thumbs or each other
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  2255. More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  2256. Alan Moorehead wasn't there and like you is a bewildered Monty fanboy
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  2257. Um no monty had to apologize in writing for lying and Churchill addressed the house of Commans and told the truth that monty wanted to fall back. Read THE FULL MONTY - are you Lucien Trueb,that's your hero. before the GIs your little poof got dunkirked. The hid away as his OMG baby came apart immediately
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  2258. see a neurologist,then the Vicar
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  2259. That you squat when you tinkle
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  2260.  @jeffreybeigie5244  Brereton had nothing to do with athe American Monty MacArthur did he twice ignored orders from George Marshall himself MAC was another over rated blowhole that was detriment to the allied war effort - just like Bernard. And John Peate when you get your nose out of bernards backside stick it in a wwII History book
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  2261.  @jeffreybeigie5244  MacArthur didn't make any adjustments in the Phillipines after knowing Pearl had just been pounded.Planes were still lined up on the air fields and defensive measures weren't taken when he had a hole day to react. In his abscence GOD knows how many GIs/Phillipinos suffered horrifically and that arrogant ass is having a a film reel made about himself. He rehersed that landing bit over a Dozen times - a DOZEN AT ABOUT 3:40 A.M. on December 8, 1941, the phone rang inside Lieutenant General Douglas MacArthur’s lavish apartment atop the Manila Hotel. It was MacArthur’s chief of staff, calling with the shocking news that the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbor earlier that morning—December 7 across the international date line in Hawaii. MacArthur, commander of American forces in the Philippines, hastened to his headquarters, where his air chief arrived shortly thereafter with a request: Major General Lewis H. Brereton wanted permission to launch a bombing raid against Japanese bases in Formosa before the Japanese could strike Clark Field, the main American air base in the Philippines. Despite repeated appeals from Brereton, however, and even several minor Japanese air raids on the Philippines, nearly seven hours went by before MacArthur finally authorized the strike By then, it was too late. At 12:30 p.m. Brereton’s B-17 Flying Fortresses were on the ground at Clark Field, being fueled and loaded with bombs for the Formosa mission, when 88 Japanese bombers and fighters attacked. Brereton’s B-17s were defenseless. Of the 17 on the ground at the time, 12 were destroyed and five were badly damaged. Not a single one was flyable. Brereton’s heavy bombers were the linchpin of the Philippines’ planned defense—but in one stroke, Japan had obliterated that threat. Why MacArthur had held back and waited for the enemy to strike first was a mystery even to his colleagues. Army Chief of Staff George C. Marshall couldn’t fathom “how MacArthur happened to let his planes get caught on the ground,”
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  2262. The 9th and 10th you unread rube.1st Para didn't get cornered by the likes of you. Graebners 9th also came over the bridge the 1st day driving back the 82nd who were on foot as he had APCs with mounted mg42s and halftracks with 20mm AA guns
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  2263. Yes they did in Retreat to the Reich the numbers were there taken from Zaloga and a few other like Zwarts and Porter. not alot but effective enough to blunt the allied advance. Any way the APCs had mounted mg42s and halftracks with 20mm AA guns. The 82nd and 1st para were on foot but this was a decided advantage as the 82 was going back/forth - up/down the Groesbeek Hts that is were their DZs were and the Germans at least twice attacked them. Any army that ever held Nijmegen held the Heights. Put a couple of 88s up there and it's game over for foot soldiers. Also there was one 88 in Hunnar Park on the south side of the Nijmegen Bridge. Seriously i think it was the m60 mortar the largest one the base blate and tube weighed 150 poungs - that's not including the shells.I don't know how many or what kind of mortars - Gavin had but that is a tall order toting those around specially to the heights. The M30 & 50 machine guns though effective weighed a lot also. The GIs I'm sure would have preferred the mg-42 or the British/Czech Bren Gun
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  2264.  @nspr9721  cornhole is is a daft distorian & revisionist
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  2265. yes apparently you are....AGAIN
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  2266. Complaints go up orders come down. Whatever Brereton did or didn't do was approved by who? A certain FM who evidently was AWOL. Antwerp was taken - the problem was opening Scheldt River and it's estuary that was mined across and had pockets of Reich resistance all over. SHAEFs directive of Sept 4th was to open up the deep water port that was the largest on the coast. It's massive port could sustain an operation the size of OMG. And as previously noted Monty was made aware of the logistical problems of almost twice as many flights as June 6th on much shorter days and longer routes. It's amazing the ignorance of people who comment o such events. Excerpt From The Brereton Diaries:11 September 1941-8 May 1945 “There were several undesirable features of MARKET. General Browning, who had been charged with planning for MARKET with the 21st Army Group, informed me that at General Montgomery’s insistence he had virtually agreed to drop the 101st Airborne Division in seven separate areas along an axis 30 miles in length to seize key crossings I objected to this because such dispersion destroys the tactical integrity of a division presents an insurmountable supply problem, and renders the smaller groups susceptible to being destroyed in detail without accomplishing the mission. I decided that General Taylor, commanding the 101st Airborne Division, would see General Montgomery about a more concentrated landing. If, after the disadvantages of the first maneuver have been explained to General Montgomery, he still insists, we will go in as planned Excerpt From The Brereton Diaries: 3 October 1941-8 May 1945 It absolutely was a plea to change the order A division commander would not fly to the continent in wartime four days prior to a major operation for a purely social visit ​ Monty was a supposed Field Marshall after reviewing his battle assessment he should have changed the order of battle. General Taylor went to see him 4 days before the drops to do precisely that but Monty wouldn't budge
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  2267. https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a406861.pdf Yup an excerpt a gross underestimation of the enemy and a serious misjudgment of the terrain.” 1 Kirkpatrick later goes on to attempt to explain the intelligence failure by saying, “In the one week between the decision to mount the operation and the attack there was not time to collect additional information on the enemy forces in the area.” 2 This last statement of his is clearly incorrect based on the Ultra messages, and brings his first statement into question. After the fall of Antwerp to the British Second Army on 4 September 1944, Ultra began to provide a very clear picture of the German forces moving into Holland, the reorganization within their command structure, the repositioning of panzer divisions to Holland, and the fact that the Germans anticipated an Allied attack, possibly with airborne forces, towards either Arnhem or Aachen. The intelligence information was available; whether commanders were adequately warned of the risks to the operation is really the question, as well as whether intelligence failed during this operation
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  2268. Like Monty lyndon/Burnhole here lie alot. They ignore the truth because it does not get the bent freak monty.The column madeit 3 miles before the poundings started.Monty like pretty much everything he touched deserves to get drubbed only fanboys 75 yrs later try writing another narrative.Why did Robinson with no orders move his tank while Carrington who guys like Lyndon here refer to as "LORD" stay put. From D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,p229 Monty liked to keep his objectives vague,so that if there was a break out he could claim credit for it.And if the operation ran into the sand he could simply say that they'd been tying down the German Forces to help the Americans The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p,43-44 the Fact that both US Airborne formations were misused as conventional infantry under British command for a considerable amount period after the Failure of MARKET suggests that the concern for US casualties did not figure highly in Montgomery's or Brownings calculations. Large scale night landings proved not to be a success and September 17 put Market into a no moon period.Large scale airborne landings were simply not viable in moonless conditions. Both parachutists and glider pilots required a degree of natural illumination in order to judge height ,orientation and degree of descent to avoid landing accidents, with lost/damaged equipment,injuries and probable fatalities That tended to run counter to those aims Browning who handed over to Brerton that all 17 Bridges had to be sized with thunderclap surprise.And stressed that time constraints meant any arrangements at this stage had to be binding,before imposing a series of conditions and constraints From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p145 the Irish Guards were an hour and 11 miles behind when it's tanks rolled into Valkenswaard main square on the night of the 17th and Horrocks no movement after dark extended this shorfall to 12 hours at a stroke.It remained to be seen if Guards Armored Division would prove capable of moving the following day with sufficient dispatch to make up at least some of the lost time From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p309 Capt.Burris was reportedly so furious he threatened the deputy commander of no.1 Squadron Capt.Peter (Lord) Carrington with his Thompson gun,Carrington dropped inside the tank and locked the hatch. Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp .General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." Gavin did not have an answer for him The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate.yet Guards Armored did not move German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points. And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial The Americans/Germans even members of the IRISH Guards agree but this is all still on Monty problems arose everywhere that either he or his plans were involved. Monty didn't show up to direct his own operations as it was coming apart rather quickly and by the seams
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  2269. No dave hac, canadian blood captured Antwerp the daisy monty only appeared after the damage was done.Go visit Monty's statue in antwerp oh wait there isn't one. The Dutch to this day hate the scrawny pedos guts. No the 101 st saved the remnents of the Red Devils that somehow survived bernard's battle plans.Still butt hurt your crumbling crown wasn't shoving anyone around anymore you failed fauntleroy
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  2270. They did no such thing you delusional door stop.Declared war in Sept 1939 not until May 1940 did the BEF move - then very badly .In 16 days they got swept off the continent and 4 days loading and leaving.Simply the way it happened.Now you may return to your hive of hallucination
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  2271. Once again the poltroon davie pulling history from his dank crevasse The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, p.303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "And here I must admit a bad mistake on my part –I underestimated the difficulties of opening up the approaches to Antwerp so that we could get free use of the port." (Montgomery’s memoirs, p297)​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively."
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  2272. johnny when you are done down there you can move monty's nut sack from in front of your eyes and read actuall history.Try THE FULL MONTY you like fairy tales. Bold sir bernard = dunkirk,go visit his statue in Arnhem,oh waite there isn't one
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  2273. Sponge Burns smear pants,your new attempts at slithering about aren't any more successful than your previous ones.IKE NEVER said Antwerp wasn't a priority.He made sure monty knew it.Put down your coloring books and ask the nurses at the center if you special needs class can go to the library - but you'll have to be quiteMonty had more military failures than you've had with women,revolting but true. Read Ryan's "A Bridge too Far" it is so authentic that Montgomery didn't appear in it either
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  2274. Monty was a foot dragging laggard his single thrust thru an area of flooded fields,polder marshes and drainage ditches that proved disastrous. The bent little freak bernard never showed up for HIS operation that he demanded and EVERYONE else fought at.And Allied HQ blamed the him afterward as did the German Troops that fought there.Caen/Arnhem/Falaise/Netherlands with the same stunted runt same sad results - MONTY GARDEN
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  2275. Churchill like Britain was an aging, once great but declining wretch, suffering a long spate of disastrous loses and deeply in debt. Looking for salvation from a wealthy, benevolent friend from across the pond. The British Imperialists were haughty, indifferent, egotistically & prideful beyond all proportion to their diminished importance. It's hilarious how poltroon like villa see themselves, from a psychological standpoint. Overly bloated with pride and with no justifiable reason to be so. From Brooke on down did this as their empire was in decline and dependent of American generosity. But fly your flag next to ours you did - essential to British Pride so you feel like they added something to the war effort. Britain had exhausted itself and its treasury during the war and it irreversibly had lost its position in world affairs. The power now lay with the USA & USSR. Though this was easier than dealing with the French.
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  2276. The inaction would be from Monty just like Sicily,Caen,Falaise,not showing up to direct like a real Field Marshall
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  2277. Oh the USA fight it's War - you mean the war Winston cajoled/encouraged.The war the GIs got into by sending how many supply ships that the Kriegsmarine kept sending to the bottom and Reich considered an act of war on the USA's part - you mean That War?
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  2278. Rule what?manipulating allies and colonials into the meat grinder for Royals perverted puposes?Break your Prozac in half. The crown thru the czechs to the wolves in an attempt to pull your chestnuts out of the fire.Did your stand up negotiators ask the people of that republic what their wishes were? I'm sure they didn't mind getting handed to the Reich and then the Reds for the next 60 yrs. So in line with your excuse what chance did the USA have of helping the Crown an ocean away?
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  2279. TIK still jousting with windmills.The 82nd did make the bridge the 1st day.Greabners men beat the 1st to the bridge further north in mechanized.Since the no one but the Germans controlled the Arnhem Bridge it's irrelevant .XXX Corp was late in Nijmegen and would have waited for infantry at Arnhem.Trying to surprise a battle tested enemy coming straight up a 64 mile lane the ground was too soft for tank operations on open terrain, restricting them to the small, single lane road.By day 3 they were 36 hours behind schedule.The brilliance of Montgomery.
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  2280. Douche nozzle Scarrington stopped - that is a fact
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  2281. No it isn't he's a carnival barker
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  2282. Good find ND
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  2283.  @nickdanger3802  you're preaching to the choir.I'm trying to stay off his pathetic platforms his response to TS Birksby told anyone all they need to know and I quote "TIK wrote Birkly, I've replied to your messages. The formal orders don't change anything. I'm not sure what you're getting at. You've provided evidence, but no argument. Nick the fooking evidence is the argument.He's starting to make Ribbentrop and Molotov look good
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  2284. Ask Cornhole why he shit on dead GIs to prop up Monty.It's scattered all over these comment sections - even calling Monty the greatest commander the allies had - go ahead and agree with that delusion
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  2285. Jump in the channel and join your hero Burns
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  2286. Nope during Monty Garden XXX Corp didn't cross the bridge until the 3rd day a 7 pm,And the official history never said that you lie like a rug.You've been busted making shit up and have been caught several times.And Monty unlike a real Field Marshall Model - never showed up,like your family members More Monty victims Johnny is a sick juvenile who has made up other accounts to agree with himself Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2287. XXX Corp didn't cross the bridge for 3 days it was supposed to be two.But Monty was never there and admitted - after the war he faffed it.Very bad plan you can't be dumb enough to think you are going to sneak a whole column of armor up a 64 mile elevated road barely 2 lanes wide with no room to move with marshes on both sides - it was a shooting gallery.Monty never ferried tanks and artillery over the canals/rivers like the Germans did.He blew he was fortunated enough to have the USA/Russia on his side even he could not screw up that advantage - but he gave it a try anyway
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  2288.  @tonyolivari2480  the americans were hardly at fault for this debacle that stuck to one road that he couldn't be bothered to. Everyone at allied HQ warned of it. It boggles the imagination at what the Allied Armies might have done to the Wehrmacht with-out Montgomery working so effectively for them. Monty and his frail,feckless, half assed advances doomed any operation he was involved with. Not the Americans fault that the British units didn't deploy effectively using deplorable methods filtered down from Monty's ineptitude.
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  2289. the truth never goes out of date typical of a fraudulent fauntleroy attempting to twist the truth pushing a revisionist narrative. You're wrong again but hey it's something you're good at. Kershaw talked directly to actual participants,just like Ryan did before dying in 1974. His books are replete with pictures of him with the veterans,pictures - that should appeal to you. The Germans,the 101st even the Irish Guards the slow approach of the Armored column as the problem. "It Never Snows in September" by Robert J. Kershaw,page 9,Kershaw states" Heinz Harmel 10TH SS Commander was still able to give one of the most lucid accounts of the battles for Nijmegen and Arnhem I have ever heard Kershaw states "I've told the story in their own words". Kershaw also interviews 12 other German Soldiers who were present at Market Garden. Kershaw states that "offered were diaries and unpublished personal accounts for perusal that did much to paint a realistic scene".
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  2290. Monty owns this disaster,got scarce once it started coming apart like evrything else he did. No burnhole it wasn't and i see you falsified what you printed there.Bernard admitted it "a big mistake on my part".Have the nurses at the home loosen the bolts in your neck
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  2291. Burns have the nurses there put you in the tub for a time out and then if your lucky they'll give you the Full Monty When you're done strolling thru the land of make believe have them dial back the voltage at the home and maybe loosen the ankle monitors also.Go spin your Wham records
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  2292. Ah the Lyndon Latrine lipping off The Lorraine Campaign was a series of battles against entrenched dug in troops,many that escaped from the falaise pocket that the mongrel monty didn't close. The province of Lorraine is the most direct route between France and Germany. Bounded on the west by the Moselle River, on the east by the Saar River, with Luxembourg and the Ardennes to the north, and the Vosges Mountains to the south, Lorraine has been a traditional invasion route between east and west for centuries. Monty didn't show up for his debacle why would the hack stick his neck out for anyone else? Specially Patton who embarrassed him in Sicily,Patton was fighting actual armies the ones Monty chickened out from and 4 yrs earlier drove him into the channel - shameful but expected
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  2293. '21st Army Group was one of the formations that received ULTRA intelligence. The Chief of Intelligence, Brigadier Bill Williams, was sufficiently concerned about the presence of 2nd SS Panzer Corps, and more particularly that of 9th SS Panzer Division north of Arnhem, that he drew it to the attention of Montgomery on 10 September, after the latter's meetings with Dempsey and Eisenhower on that day. He failed, however, to persuade Montgomery to alter his plans for the airborne landings at Arnhem. Undaunted, Williams tried again two days later with the support of Brigadier General Staff (Operations) in Montgomery's headquarters, who was standing in as Chief of Staff in the absence of Major General Francis de Guingand who was on sick leave. Unfortunately, their warnings fell on deaf ears. Alan Brooke's own words​ "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely...." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it ​ The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary Eisenhower's Armies ,by Dr Niall Barr ,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden, Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer, noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary, followed by an advance on the Rhine, the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticized Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings, Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray. That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings, Armageddon: The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area. With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers, volume IV, by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor, page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty, who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory, Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery; based strictly on military accomplishments, the case for him was very weak
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  2294. Listen Monty was a disaster do you really want to go down the rabbit hole of who supplied what? I bash Monty for the same reason I bash McArthur,both were lying overated blow holes.And I return like remarks like those of little villa who was gleefully shitting on the GIs
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  2295. Looks like who needed a helping hand? Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.160 "In private to Herriman. "The PM bluntly stated that he could see no prospect of victory until the United States came into the war." DeGaulle said after Pearl Harbor; "well the war is over. Of course, there are more operations,battles and struggles ahead; but the out come is no longer in doubt. In this industrial war nothing can resist the power of American industry. From now on the British will do nothing with out Roosevelt's agreement." Harold Nicolson wrote "we simply can't be beaten with America in But how strange it is that this great event should be recorded and welcomed here with out any jubilation. We should have gone mad with joy if it had happened a year ago....not an American Flag flying in the whole of London - how odd we are." Churchill had cabled to Antony Eden who was en route to Moscow - "The ascension of the United States makes amends for all, and with time and patience will give certain victory." Churchill after Pearl Harbor No American will think it wrong of me if I proclaim that to have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. I could not foretell the course of events. I do not pretend to have measured the marshall might of Japan, but now at this very moment I knew the United States was in the war up to the neck and in to the death. So we had won after all!” . Type this into the search field of Youtube The Friendship Between Britain And The USA | Warlords: Churchill vs Roosevelt | Timeline go to 2:30 then listen.Churchill emphatically stated his plan for winning the war was "I shall drag in the United States.” That night of December 7, 1941, Churchill wrote in a draft of his memoirs that 'saturated and satiated with emotion and sensation, I went to bed and slept the sleep of the saved and thankful.'
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  2296. Perhaps you didn't hear the Crown stiffed the US Treasury for the loans of the 1st WW. The US Tax Payers were not footing the bill for you princes,dukes and lords in their manors on their estates again
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  2297. Little Villa read what Brooke said unlike your D-Day daddy - he was there Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2298. Bullshit they were there under the trees,Monty later admitted it. the Germans even stated they were surprised by the bad choice of both route and commander.Asshole in the South was the traditional passage thru the Saar
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  2299. No myth monty admitteed it and Brian Urquhart went on to be under secretary of the united nations.And monty well i'd rather not bring up the despicable berk
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  2300. If Villa fell into a barrel of tits he'd come out sucking his thumb.Little piss ant shits on the GIs 70+ yrs after the war.And believes bombing the Irish is a good idea
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  2301.  @johnburns1962  🤣😎
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  2302. That's why Major Tony Hibbert to name one brought it to light. Monty couldn't blame himself - until after the war
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  2303. Giovanni Johnny just crawl back into your hole.Another dim bulb.The tanks were never fast enough.Even if they were they would have been blasted back into the Rhine.Hell it took the rube Monty over 6 more months to reach it again and that was with at one time or another 1st & 9th US Armies.That's how well garrisoned and reactionary theGerries were. Model was an actual Field Marshall not special needs student like Monty and your fictional 5 account .The allies still had to depend on the 499 mile supply line from Cherbourg for heavy supply.That's how important the biggest deep water port in Europe - Antwerp was. This has been explained to daily since 2013 thicko .No big port - not much supplies.You'd think Monty being British would have factored in the unpredictable weather of the North Atantic and channel.But like you he read coffee table coloring books - get back to that and leave actual discussion to students of history idiot
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  2304. More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  2305. From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp* From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944:p. 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  2306. Stop repeating your out house rat retreat to the channel - Monty did.Plenty of sources left for you revisionist.repeating your bilge doesn't make it an additional credible source Ike orders the Marseilles-Toulon amphibious invasion because the operation needed all the ways possible to get those proverbial 600 to 800 tons of supplies per day for each American infantry division. SHAEF NEEDED THE PORT OF ANTWERP for the shiploads of supplies he had to have everyday not worthless isolated bridges at Nijmegen and Arnhem. Ike was good at thinking in strategic terms. Churchill wanted those V-weapons sights cleared because more British civilians were killed from those Crossbow launching sights than British soldiers in combat.Remember those pesky facts that EACH American Armored division required around 850 tons of supplies per DAY for sustained offensive operations. EACH mechanized or motorized U.S. Army infantry division required 600 to 800 tons of supplies for sustained offensive operations per DAY.
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  2307. Going one way for 64 miles - you are a moron.Even Model and Student couldn't believe their luck.How'd the Broad thrust work for the Russians and later the Americans.Monty was lucky to be on the right side
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  2308. Dr Buckingham and Dr Barr both say you are full of shit - fine English Historians.Stop reading from Giovanni's Journal- when things worked out he claimed it was all his idea when they didn't which was the case when he was left to command like Sicily,Caen,Falaisew,Market Garden - things were a disaster.They were all his ideas even the other officers in SHAEF said so. You are quoting a Monty Fan Boy not unlike yourself Here you go for every one to watch I even time stamped it for you. https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1580
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  2309. If you keep watching that video even Hamilton admits Monty was selling books to embellish his place in history - WATCH IT!!! Nigel Hamilton is another Monty nutthugger,like his father who also suckled from Monty's tit - he printed clap-trap to sell books.When his sad act got old he moved here where he is trying to do the same by telling his fallacies. Educate yourself and watch the video.I'm not wasting my time debating history with your school boy understanding of Novels https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1580
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  2310.  @Phantomrasberryblowe  Um no you moron I see you've been quite because you have attention span of a newt,Burns,um I mean - well you know watch the video he had every advantage.Evidenced by the fact the the rube got smacked around when the GIs were not around
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  2311. AGAIN WATH THE VIDEO - here you go Burns You read from Nigel the Nutthugger,really next to Neilands and you noboby blows Monty more.Monty wasn't a commander he was dropped into circumstamnces he couldn't lose.The Navy and Air Force choked the Axis supply lines.He had about 3:1 ratio in manpower and 4:1in Armor and artillery.And overwhelming in Air Cover.Only closer to Algeria did the Reich have any Air Cover.Read Desert Generals,The Rommel Papers or An Army at Dawn From The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 521 Montgomery was in a position to profit by the bitter experience of his predecessors .While supplies on our side had been cut to a trickle, American and British ships were bringing vast quantities on materials to North Africa .Many times greater than either his predecessors had ever had. His principle was to fight no battle unless he knew for certain that he would win it .Of course that is a method which will only work given material superiority - but that he had. He was undoubtedly more of a strategist than a tactician. Command of a mobile battle force was not his strong point British officers made the error off planning operations according to what was strategically desirable ,rather than what was tactically attainable The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61 "Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us.He could have done it with out any danger to himself.Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed" From The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 284 Montgomery relied on the effect of Allied artillery & air force rather than maneuver From Desert Generals by Corelli Barnett,pages 236-37 Montgomery was seldom able to assess the combat effectiveness and intentions of his enemy.Barnett wrote "A student noted a typical scheme of Montgomery's dealt with 'Our sides' plans;but the enemy intentions or reactions were not imagined,either as a source of danger or opportunity.
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  2312. References were given repeatedly,are you his little Swiss Boy?Again Watch the Video Berk .men wtih education who were educated at Sandhurt,King's College,etc - who work for Universities,Academies and are professors and Rommel himself was archived - try some other unsuspecting Slappie! More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  2313. Hamilton's a proven wanker-repeating his distorions are not more sources
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  2314. So what you found some one who likes him his pathetic European Campaign speaks for itself Martin van Creveld calculated in his superb study of logistics, Supplying War: Logistics From Wallenstein to Patton Monty’s “40 divisions” realistically would have been quickly reduced to a mere 18 when all logistical and operational requirements were considered. Captured ground could not simply be left in a vacuum, but had to be occupied and defended against the inevitable German counterattacks. Supply lines had to be protected and secured, and as a force advanced, those key “sinews of war” extended longer and longer, requiring the diversion of increasing numbers of combat troops to protect them. Moreover, because Monty failed to capture the Scheldt Estuary expeditiously and open the port of Antwerp (closed to Allied shipping until December), Ike’s SHAEF logisticians at the time calculated that only 12 divisions could have been supported in a rapid advance. Van Creveld weighed all the factors in the “broad front” vs. “narrow thrust” strategy debate and concluded, “In the final account, the question as to whether Montgomery’s plan presented a real alternative to Eisenhower’s strategy must be answered in the negative" Eisenhower actually gave Montgomery a chance to show that his narrow thrust strategy could succeed – and Monty botched it Ike approved the September 1944 Operation Market-Garden, Monty’s attempt to “jump” the lower Rhine and position his army group to drive on to the Ruhr industrial region. Market-Garden famously and disastrously failed at the “bridge too far” at Arnhem at the same time that German forces supposedly were so depleted and disorganized that Monty’s narrow thrust, it was claimed, would easily slice right through them and capture the Ruhr. Monty’s boast that his single axis advance would quickly win the war was both literally and figuratively “a bridge too far” at that point of the war in Europe
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  2315. the evidence suggests that Monty was terrible at commanding,awful,as in no fooking good. CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS,Transcribed By Major Gary Wade "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks, also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce.But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything. Monty was a good general, I've always said, but never a great one.
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  2316.  @Phantomrasberryblowe  you're funny,uneducated but funny. You have an answer for everything - not a right one
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  2317.  @Phantomrasberryblowe  From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 454 By April 1945 the 61 American divisions formed the bulk of the Allied Armies,supported by 13 British,11 French,5 Canadian and one Polish.While Britain was now a significant ally amongst many,the United States emergence as a superpower was now all but complete FDR and American Foreign Policy,1932-1945,by Robert Dallek,page 347 "Trobruk has surrendered with 25,000 men taken prisoner "the telegram said."....one of the heaviest blows I can recall during the war......I did not attempt to hide from the president the shock I had received" Churchill wrote .President Roosevelt made an offer of immediate help.The Americans agreed to ship 300 new Sherman tanks and 150 self propelled 105mm howitzers to the British in North Africa Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics guess what The Auch won at Alamein and the rancid runt continued using his plans.The Torch Landings forced Rommel into a pinch.And the minefield were laid by the Troops under Auchinleck and Dorman - Smith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duOYnIGivys Monty had over a 2 1/2 to 1 in Tanks and 5 to 1 in men Auchinleck did not have the advantages Montgomery did.And almost all of Rommel's tanks were 4 yrs old
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  2318. WATCH THE VIDEO You can print Hamilton's whole book here if you want to thicko,he's nothing but a silly scribbler not unlike yourself.Try Corelli Barrett,Max Hastings,Dr Niall Barr,Dr William Buckingham,Antony Beevor,David Bennet - you know someone with pedigree Ike orderes the Marseilles-Toulon amphibious invasion because he needed all the ways possible to get those proverbial 600 to 800 tons of supplies per day for each American infantry division. IKE NEEDED THE PORT OF ANTWERP for the shiploads of supplies he had to have everyday not worthless isolated bridges at Nijmegen and Arnhem. Ike was good at thinking in strategic terms. Churchill wanted those V-weapons sights cleared because more British civilians were killed from those Crossbow launching sights than British soldiers in combat.Remember those pesky facts that EACH American Armored division required around 850 tons of supplies per DAY for sustained offensive operations. EACH mechanized or motorized U.S. Army infantry division required 600 to 800 tons of supplies for sustained offensive operations per DAY. Oddball SOK wrote and isn't it ironic that the biggest Rhine bifurcation was the WAAL at Nijmegen and the 30crps effectively HAD crossed the Rhine and all they had to do is do the same as the Germans at Pannerden Ferry:PUT TANKS ACROSS THE Pannerden and you were in free accessible German tank land !Only a small river Oude Ijssel at Doetinchem (which was there too after Market Garden ;p )and go go go into das deutsche Reich?!Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944.So tell me, how come ? How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over,under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November Just look at it at google maps: the river looks like nothing...
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  2319. Like Monty you keep on repeating yourself - you are scoring no points From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after AlameinI do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easilysaid Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt It took 6 months to take Arnhem and cross the Rhine.Not before the GIs went thru Metz/Lorraine/Hurtgen/Ardennes and crossed the Rhine in that time.But hey Monty was getting better it took 4 full years for him to cross the 30 mile wide channel
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  2320. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit That's because they stopped to feed Monty his debacle.That gave time for the Germans to dig in and fortify. It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction you idiot Such an English thing to blame everyone else Dunkirk was the fault of the Frogs/Belgians/Dutch,Market Garden was the fault of the Canadians/Poles/Gi's.Singapore the fault of the Australians/New Zealanders.While for 4 FULL years the Reich sat 30 miles across the English Channel and the Brooke/Monty run away 3,000 miles into the desert - BRILLIANT! said no one ever
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  2321. Again quit splicing your demented drivel in italics and presenting it as fact - you've been busted by myself and others for this erroneous yodeling From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 116 Britain's war effort even after just one year of conflict - had placed an intolerable burden upon her finances and her future was now in the hands of The United States of America.Without American aid and assistance above and beyond the commercial basis of "cash and carry",Britain would not be able to continue the War. 4 years - 4 FULL YEARS,Europe knows the score.BTW Dr Barr has a PHD.Professor Niall Barr is Professor of Military History and Deputy Dean of Academic Studies (Education) in the Defence Studies Department.His main research interest concerns the Anglo-American alliance in the Second World War More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  2322. Perhaps you can go to the search bar in front of you and relieve me from the responsibility of furthering your education.Then you may tackle the history. Britain got blown completely off of the continent - so yes we know who is lying.And take a look at your other accounts - don't forget about them!. You are full of shit it took to 2008 or something to even pay most of that back jerkoff,That's why we are in possesion of how many British bases.Burns you moron put your writing fancy as you want - the Empire NEVER paid us back for WWI.We were there to help you the ships went west to east .Name one British vessel that sailed to America with provisions?You plaster bullshit hoping someone as empty headed as the other names on your account will believe it More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe       joined 26 Sept 2013     Giovanni Pierre     joined 28 Sept 2013     John Peate            joined 28 Sept 2013     John Burns            joined 07  Nov 2013     John Cornell          joined 13  Nov 2013     TheVilla Aston      joined 20  Nov 2013
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  2323. And much of the debt you owed us was from south african mines you plundering fucks .You gave us nothing but a few sandwiches during tea breaks - ask XXX Corp about those
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  2324. It is unlikely that a person of your status among the ignorant could teach me a thing * https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/lend-lease-act-1* Churchill warned Roosevelt that his country would not be able to pay cash for military supplies or shipping much longer https://www.historians.org/about-aha-and-membership/aha-history-and-archives/gi-roundtable-series/pamphlets/em-13-how-shall-lend-lease-accounts-be-settled-(1945)/how-muc Why couldn’t Britain pay? Just exactly what was Britain’s ability to keep on with cash payments in December 1940? She had entered the war in September 1939 with about 4.5 billion dollars of gold and investments in securities in the United States. Most of these belonged to private British citizens and British companies. During the first year of the war the British government had bought these holdings from its citizens, paying for them in British government bonds. Then it sold the securities and gold reserves for dollars, and pooled the whole amount in one fund. This process produced a supply of dollars on this side with which Britain could purchase war goods in the United States. From September 1939 to the end of 1940 the British managed to realize some 2 billion dollars—in addition to the 4.5 billion dollars mentioned above—from sales of gold newly mined in the British Empire, from exports, and other sources.But this additional amount had been spent in 1940 for war purchases, chiefly in the United States Thus, by December 1940, the British supply of dollars was down to about 2 billion. About 1.5 billion of this would be needed to pay for munitions and supplies already ordered in the United States but not yet delivered. So low was Britain’s dollar reserve that new orders for war goods had almost stopped at the time when she needed them most. The job placed before Congress was to provide the country with a law that would meet the situation in spirit and in fact. It required an epoch-making decision on policy and the setting up of machinery to provide the needed help in ships, planes, tanks, guns, food, and other supplies.
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  2325. Fighting in the Pacific and taking up for the ANZACs who Winnie conveniently forgot about.Even though they fought for your crown Burns.Shame really you had all that time and couldn't go 30 miles.British didn't own shyt.For Peate's sake That's why Winnie was in washington filling FDR's ear that they were broke and left all of their hardware on the beach - no worries the emerging world power helped out your meagher war efforts.
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  2326. Johnny boy you owned nothing but the countries you manipulated and plundered.You've picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.And the BEF unfortunately left every last slingshot on the beaches of France .You can't even throw stones - you throw gravel 🤣
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  2327. Protecting the East Coast,LMFAO you delusional douche nozzle you are really giving good brits a bad look - like Monty.Couldn't keep our boats from bouncing off the bottom of the sea .You should be grateful we kept little brother relevent
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  2328. https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/john-curtins-turn-america-75-years It may be worth reflecting on Curtin's New Year's message to the Australian people, published in the Melbourne Herald on 27 December 1941. Writing three weeks after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Curtin declared: 'Without any inhibitions of any kind, I make it quite clear that Australia looks to America, free of any pangs as to our traditional links or kinship with the United Kingdom.' His statement was attacked by conservative political opponents, angered the British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and astonished the American president Franklin Roosevelt. For Curtin was ahead of the US in his thinking about strategy and priorities for the war in the Pacific. Yet his initiative boosted Australia's defences against the threat of invasion, laid the ground for the post-war ANZUS treaty
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  2329. The contempt shown for Britain's much-bruited naval prowess was epitomised by Japanese torpedo bombers destroying HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse in a matter of 10 minutes off the cost of Malaya as the Japanese infantry overpowered all before it. In response, Curtin put the nation on a total war footing and there were warnings of invasion. At the same time, he memorably wrote in the Melbourne Herald: "Without any inhibitions of any kind, I make it quite clear that Australia looks to America, free of any pangs as to our traditional links or kinship with Britain." "We know the problems that Britain faces" We know the dangers of dispersal of strength but we know, too, that Australia can go and Britain can still hold on. We are, therefore, determined that Australia shall not go, and we shall exert all our energies towards the shaping of a plan, with the United States as its keystone, which will give to our country some confidence of being able to hold out until the tide of battle swings against the enemy." Nope From the beginning of WWII until the United States reduced the IJN at Midway and Guadalcanal, the Imperial Japanese Navy was superior to the Royal Navy. As capital ships, battleships were obsolete. If we assume that the start of WW2 was 1941 when the IJN Imperial Japanese Navy turned a European war into a global conflict, the Imperial Japanese Navy was the strongest - stronger than even the USN. The Japanese navy had an elite naval aviation force - and their bombers with superior range (because they didn't bother with armor or self-sealing tanks) were superb ship-killers. They had the Long Lance torpedoes which to the dismay of the British and Americans were more robust and could be launched further and faster than anyone else; and because they were oxygen powered left no visible trails. They operated very strong offensive land based air units - fast twin engine torpedo bombers. That is how they easily sank the HMS Prince of Wales and Repulse - which was in the words of Churchill one of his greatest shocks. Compare that action with the battles with the Bismarck. What did the British have in comparison? In 1941 the British navy was still operating antiquated Swordfish biplanes. Their RN carriers could only operate a quarter of the number of aircraft the IJN could. In a major naval engagement the RN would most likely lose. The IJN cruisers and destroyers were also fast and heavily armed and excelled in night fighting - they did tremendous damage to the USN during the initial naval battles (until the USN mastered radar controlled gun fire) The IJN had11 Fleet Carriers, 10 Battleships, 40 Cruisers, 112 Destroyers and 63 Submarines. At the same time Period, Royal Navy have were 4 Fleet Carrier and 3 Escort Carrier, 15 Battleship and Battlecruiser, 66 Cruiser, 184 Destroyers, 60 Submarines Due to, undisputed Superiority of Aircraft in Naval engagement in WW2 - The IJN Bigger carrier fleet and Air power - combined with high morale and experience from war in China. It make them easily the Strongest Naval Power on the Planet for that period From the beginning of WWII until the United States reduced the IJN at Midway and Guadalcanal, the Imperial Japanese Navy was superior to the Royal Navy. As capital ships, battleships were obsolete. That does not mean that battleships were useless, just not capable of defeating the new capital ship, which was the aircraft carrier. The carriers of the Royal were excellent ships and they were famously armored for the European theater. However, the carriers of the Imperial Japanese Navy could out plane and out range them. For some reason, just prior to WWII, the Royal Navy skipped developing the next generation of carrier-borne aircraft. The Imperial Japanese Navy fielded more modern aircraft and a better aerial torpedo than the Royal Navy. That is why the IJN was superior. A comparison of aircraft illustrates the point. Planes that entered service after 1942 are omitted because by 1943, the IJN had already been defeated by the United States Navy. In order the numbers given are speed in miles per hour, ceiling in feet, and range in miles. Torpedo Bombers: Fairey Albacore: 162/20,500/930 Fairey Swordfish: 138/19,000/545 Nakajima B5N: 235/27,000/1200 Dive Bombers: Blackburn B25 Roc: 224/18,000/811 Aichi D3A Val: 267/34,000/840 Fighters and fighter-bombers: Fairey Fulmar: 272/27,000/780 Hawker Sea Hurricane: 314/34,500/750 Supermarine Seafire (?): 348/24,000/553 Mitsubishi A6M Rei-sen: 354/37,000/1200 Aerial Torpedoes: British Type XII: 40 knots/not applicable/1500 yards British Type XIV (?): 45 knots/not applicable/ 2950 yards Japanese Type 91: 40 knots/not applicable/ 2200 yards Radar gave the British some advantage, but not enough to offset the Japanese advantage in range. The Japanese also had better aerial torpedoes, which is what sinks ships, heavily armored or not. Advantage Japan. Of course, against the USN, it was a different story.
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  2330. Hey Johnny,it's Friday get all gussied up in your "Who Farted " shirt and head out
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  2331. WIKI again what about it? It appears youve been editing it content to back your bombast. The Empire had more men but the GI's took more casualties.And the UK left ANZAC hanging. So what is your point except the one on your head? The USA held the Japanes in check that you fauntleroys srrender 81,000 to and and Hong kong also.The ANZACs hated your brandy adled churchill that left them in the lurch.No worries the USA ruled the waves Australia's perilous situation throughout 1942 as repeated attacks aimed at Australia by Japan were repulsed by American and Australian forces in the Battle of the Coral Sea, and in the bloody Kokoda and Guadalcanal campaigns. Important changes in Japan's strategic aims were produced during 1942 by events such as the carrier-launched Doolittle Raid on Japan and as the tide of the Pacific War turned against Japan. Those changes are mentioned elsewhere in the context of the Battle of the Coral Sea, the Battle of Midway, the Kokoda Campaign, and the Guadalcanal Campaign. None of which the British participated in The US Pacific Fleet by 1945 comprised 1200 ships. All of the major battles in the Pacific War were naval: Pearl Harbor, Coral Sea, Midway, Phillippine Sea, Leyte Gulf, and Okinawa in none of which did the Brits took any part. The Royal Navy did manage to assemble a Pacific Fleet late in the war, in November, 1944, consisting of 214 ships. The RN fleet took part in no major battles having been designed merely to "fly the flag," probably to attempt to regain lost colonies after the Japanese defeat. The British managed to avoid the heaviest fighting in both Europe and the Pacific, leaving it to the Russians to defeat Germany and the Americans to defeat Japan.The UK had no role at all in the occupation of Japan. South East Asia Command’s operations were the cause of much bitter argument between the British and the Americans, exemplified by the American claim that the command’s initials, SEAC, stood for Save England’s Asian Colonies.There was much truth in this, and the Americans did not necessarily share this aim But talk up the Victorious that sailed under the umbrella of the US 3rd Fleet as the Enterprise was refitted/repaired Year end: Dec 31, 1942, In the Pacific Four of the five great carrier battles of WW2 have been fought. While losing 4 of the 6 Carriers of the US Pacific Fleet Lexington (may '42) Yorktown (June '42) Wasp (Sept '42) Hornet( Oct '42) How many British Carriers were lost in the ferocious fighting? ZERO stay inland in Burma so they didn't get annilated - agian
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  2332. Oh wiki after you edited it
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  2333. Oh so you edited that wiki page then brought it to my attention.Good little fauntleroy you are. Monty would pat you on you're empty head Just ask Lucein Treub
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  2334. Burns go visit Monty's Statue in Arnhem - oh that's right there isn't one
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  2335. The Vile Ass wrote There was no choice between Patton and Montgomery. Montgomery was more senior than Patton. ------------------------------------------------------------ Well he could swim better but we'll never know as PATTON didn't get driven into the Channel
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  2336.  @oddballsok  Thank You for your candor in pointing out the reality. It's convenient for some to have blame pre assigned to get their hero off of the hook. The 1st 55-60 miles of this debacle are being ignored by most here - that put the operation back 24 hrs.But the real Culprit - Montgomery was no where around as his plan came apart by the seams at many points/places
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  2337. Bullcrap,the colonials don't count your fox hunting aristocrats played crickett on their estates
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  2338. he never went for them - of course he never showed up
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  2339. Montgomery never halted the rocket attacks nor did he cross the rhine for 6 more months. And nobody pressured Winston into installing Monty when much better officers had already won in the Desert.Both O'Connor and Auchinleck. His real intent was to get headlines and beat the Americans across.He didn't do that either but got even mor men butchered with Operation Victory. From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p,29 A merger over all would have permitted a more efficient allocation of air transport assets.This was a matter of some urgency,given that the British were becoming increasing reliant upon USAAF resources owing to the on going failure of the Air Ministry to supply sufficient aircraft and personnel to lift more than a fraction of the British Airborne force From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p46 the shortage of navigators was so acute that only 4 out of 10 C-47 crews used on the D-Day drop included one,usually flying at the head of the serial. The situation didn't improve by September 1944. the key issue was lack of natural illumination, the 1st airlifts into Normandy involved 900 C-47s and gliders .MARKET envisioned doing the same with around 1,600 flights,with inexperienced and partially trained air crews in the total darkness of a no moon period would have been suicidal Williams insistence on a single lift per day and Brereton's acceptance of it may have been less than ideal,but it was the only realistic option in the prevailing circumstances. (Because of a shortage of navigators on longer flights with much shorter days) From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p49 Major General Richard Gale who converted the British Airborne from a small group of Raiders into a conventional parachute brigade in confidence told Major G.G.Norton in the '70s then curator of the Airborne Forces Museum "that he would rather have resigned his command than execute MARKET as it was foisted on Urquhart" .It is unclear if Gale made his views clear to Browning at the time From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p,490-491 Launching Market in a no moon period ruled out a night landing and lack of illumination was also a factor in restricting flight operations.The allied airlift lacked sufficient navigators and trained crews.The post Overlord expansion of aircraft numbers created a shortage of ground crews to service,refuel and repair the aircraft in the time available.There was insufficient transport aircraft to move all three Air Born Divisions simultaneously in their entirety. *Browning was essentially powerless owing to the total control the RAF exercised over the planning and delivery process*However he was connected to a number of errors and these were largely committed because of personal ambition.
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  2340.  @johnlucas8479  Don't argue with sponge bob smear pants make him prove you wrong.Alan Brooke himself blamed Monty for the debacle(which was rare for that infestation of inbreds).Any moron with a corpuscle of tactical integrity knew it was Funkirk II for the HEER the second the Allies crossed the Arnhem Bridge Germany and the Ruhr were literally right around the corner already bringing in an embarrassment of supplies and provisions. Any bombs,bullets,bayonets for the Allies were 499 miles away in Cherbourg because the mongrel Montgomery didn't open the biggest deep water port in Europe.
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  2341.  @johnlucas8479  .You should be charging him for this dissertation,lies and alibis is all little villa has.Well done
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  2342. Protection of the British Crown B-W-W-A-A-A-H-A-A,YOU MAKE ME LARF.I know you'd feel awful if you took something out of context https://anzacday.org.au/ww2-1942-an-overview-of-the-battle-for-australia By the end of March 1942, there was a line of Japanese-held territory directly to the north of Australia, stretching from Rabaul to Singapore. The Japanese had conquered their Asian/Pacific empire. *Australians believed it was only a matter of time before Australia too was invaded * The arrival of the Americans Just after the defeat in Malaya, Australia’s Prime Minister, John Curtin, declared that “the fall of Singapore opens the Battle for Australia.” Curtin was aware that Great Britain, herself facing a huge challenge from Germany in Europe and North Africa, could do little to help Australia. Already at the end of 1941, Curtin indicated that Australia would have to seek a new ally to help defend its shores – the United States. On 22 December 1941, the first American soldiers arrived in Brisbane.
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  2343. The Crown threw ANZAC under the bus just like it did to everyone else in the supposed empire.Go read it again from the ANZACs them selves
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  2344. Bullcrap where were the tanks Horrocks said would be ontime and enforce and were neither. -The deep water port of Antwerp was still closed and needed for massive supplies. -The V-2 launching sites had not been captured and still operating. -11,000 Paras go into Arnhem 2,100 come out and was still in German hands. -The Nazi reprisals subjected the Dutch to the Honger Winter,that killed 21,000 of it's civilians.And many young men were sent to work in defense industry in the Reich. -Regardless of when the bridge was taken by 82nd.Monty wasn't there to direct while Student and Model were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare.And Prats like Cornhole call this a victory. -Monty wouldn't cross the Rhine for 6 more months,with the help of the 1st & 9th USArmies - real Field Marshall,huh?
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  2345. where he did nothing and wanted to withdraw.Please tell us you have more than that.The berk almost got removed a 2nd time for embellishing his meager role.Should have reinstated The Auch,O'Connor,Alexander,Slim but Monty - please.
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  2346. 4 years - four full years - 30 miles Europe and Stalin were like WTF,some Empire - hi mate,ho mate,yo-ho-ho mate.The russians had signs on the Eastern front how many miles to Caen.Some of your relatives fine work
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  2347. No idea,glad you're admitting your problem Here you go Little Villa,Enjoy Page 331 Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen
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  2348. Um no making crap up Patton went further and farther until the stopped him for Monty's fuck up.Just think 80yrs ago the Crown was swimming in the channel.75 yrs ago was VE - see what a super power can do in 5 yrs.Hey Johnny you still have Trinidad and Tobago - or did they give you a swirly too
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  2349. The Year of D-Day:The 1944 Diary of Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay, p. 151 - Montgomery:"1st Army have withdrawn 6th Division - ready to launch attack to the Rhine with British 2nd Army on October 12th."(Author's Footnote p.152 - This indicates that even after the failure,Montgomery still intended to move toward the Ruhr before opening the Scheldt) Ramsay: this afforded me the que I needed to lambaste him for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed .Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply .Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow The Year of D-Day:The 1944 Diary of Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay p. 159 "the Army was far behind organising as I knew they would be as they entirely under estimated their task and Monty had not given the Canadians sufficient support for the work (Author's Footnote In fact ,Montgomery had finally committed himself without reservation to the Scheldt campaign in a directive issued on 16 October, after receiving 3 "hurry up" messages from Eisenhower during the previous week)
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  2350. Quizz time you hampered Hen How come Model/Student were able to ferry tanks and troops across rivers/canals under the ever watchfull RAF,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November!!! Something about Monty being more of a “Rear Admiral” than a “Field Marshal” ? Jump in the Channel johny and bring your loofah,Bernard will see you shortly
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  2351. 2nd fiddle Johnny much like you and Villa at parties A couple of fine British Historians,not the Carnival Barkers you quote. Burns Big Book of Bollocks 🤣 Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 454 By April 1945 the 61 American divisions formed the bulk of the Allied Armies,supported by 13 British,11 French,5 Canadian and one Polish.While Britain was now a significant ally amongst many,the United States emergence as a superpower was now all but complete From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 116 Britain's war effort even after just one year of conflict - had placed an intolerable burden upon her finances and her future was now in the hands of The United States of America.Without American aid and assistance above and beyond the commercial basis of "cash and carry",Britain would not be able to continue the War. Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts p.137 The British desperately needed very substantial American Forces in the British Isles to protect them against a German Invasion should the Soviet Union suddenly collapse p.149 Air Chief Marshall Portal reminisced to Chester Wilmot "the Americans had tremendous confidence in their own troops and by and large the confidence was justified for they did lean very quickly once they got into action-far more quickly than our lads did and once they got experience fought extremely well p.156 American assistance was thus vital to prevent Japan taking control of the Western Indian Ocean. Churchill agreed acknowledging that Britain "was unable to cope unaided" with the Japanese threat there
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  2352. this one's barking,You're funny Irving Burns, a dim bulb but funny .The comment sections need a bucket when reading your posts.Did the nurses confiscate your Nudie Magazines again Johnny?Answer that one,maybe Monty took them up to Arnhem with him.Oh that's right he never showed up there
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  2353. Go visit that Dutch Town and there are no memorial statues to Monty. Like you and the many other aliases on your account who were never there.Asked the Dutch they always appreciated the Big boys who didn't get bounced into the channel.They didn't appreciate fighting the Gerries as Bernard and the Burns family scurried for the boats
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  2354. Best you read those comments again. They're in English, don't worry. Why wasn't Monty arrested for Buggery? Because it was the best time of John Burns life !!!
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  2355. Now Johnny have your handler read all of this to you, of course this being after Benrard and the Burns family got sheperded out of Norway,Netherlands,Belgium,France,Dunkirk and off of the continent Alan Brooke's own words and Monty admitting it from his memoirs.Rick Atkinson a Pullitzer Prize Winner even chimes in,where as we know you just pull it "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely...." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp.He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery;based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for him was very weak Fancy some more?
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  2356. David irving Burns,you've been told about sniffing glue and playing with air hammers.Try one of the other names on your account,the Burns name has been beat like a dusty rug
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  2357. It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction. Tell your droopy delusions to the French/Dutch/Poles that took bullets while monty and your family took to the boats. A bold,brave lot they were And Unlike you little villa those officers were there,do you miss bernard giving you the FULL MONTY ? Monty was an ankle biter passing himself off as a head hunter who had 4 years to come across his 21-30 mile channel.Your Welcome how about D-Day daddy that fades in/out of your memories
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  2358. Your scandal of the glands is acting up again ring the nurses station. Monty earned nothing Winston fired a better General then stuck with a mistake Monty rather than he admitted one. Perhaps one day you'll read just one book of 1300 hundred in your library - or what ever drivelous number you bloviated about.
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  2359. What did Hollywood have to do with British forces being "evacuated" from 1940 Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk 1941 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya. 1942 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore Real Bunch of bangers you have there,if IKE was bad .The Craptastic Monty should have stayed home and saved a bunch of Englishmen
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  2360.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  agreed but the above wanker gets jiggy with the facts. Everything goes wrong is US embellishment i.e. Hollywood
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  2361. Says the biggest keyboard kommando in cyber space ,perhaps if dad could take prisoners like mum,we wouldn't have to load up ships stem to stern to feed your father and his gallant brothers 🤣. Share that story with the congregation
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  2362. Irving Burns 11,000 go in 2,100 come out and they had no tanks,sure they didn't of course.Johnny have the nurses loosen your ankle monitor so you can go for a stroll in the court yard. It's the Christmas Season Johnny may the Good Lord grant your healing of the mind this December and may the voices bother you no more.Maybe Santa will put some magic dust in the sock hanging from the chimney
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  2363. not a little bit - at least on his Monty Garden boards.He listed books he read on the subject an most don't come to his conclusions because I had used quotes from the books to shoot down his robust theories getting monty off the hook. TIK slowly bends the narrative to appear legitimate He's actually a gamer and that were he gets all his maps and such. The 82nd airborne or any one else were not responsible for that debacle except monty for pushing for it and IKE for letting him off his leash. Many brought this up also,sadly many of those posts mysteriously went missing. TIK covers for the fact the Crown needed and received our help, they couldn’t forgive us for the humiliation of becoming a junior partner to a country they couldn't colonize - twice. A little too much for someone who thinks Englishmen are "LORDS" He quoted two guys(Nielands & Poulussen) that were neither peer reviewed or accredited Historians that access proper historical resource. For instance WIKI that you our I can edit all day long and many do and I actually went in to correct one of these revisioinst slappies. Read It Never Snows in September by the Germans Sabastian Ritchie,Arnhem Myth and Reality ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr Churchill and the Montgomery Myth" by R.W. Thompson A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett Arnhem: The Battle for the Bridges, 1944 by Antony Beevor - all British Historians both Monty and TIK get jiggy with the facts
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  2364. Monty with all of the backbone of a gummy bear didn't show up - Monty Garden
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  2365. Jump in the Channel like your heroes
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  2366. No 30 corp was a day and a half late,and 43rd Wessex were way behind them.Go back to that board a PHD will explain it to you,but may need a special educational tutor in your case
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  2367. Monty as he was believed to have funtioning aspergers - a condition unfortunately you seem to share
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  2368. Monty was bathing boys and since the 82nd was actually fighting it was the Burns brigade.20 pts that's ten higher than your IQ Extra point question johnny, What continent did Generals Gort,Brooke and Montgomery get driven from and into the sea then skedaddle in the other direction .Leaving the Dutch,Poles,French,Belgians to cover the British retreat Then they ran away 3,000 miles to the desert and didn't return to Europe for 4 full yrs even though it was just 30 miles away ? Now come out from behind the curtain,put away your Monster Boobs Magazine and answer the question. If you Guessed Brooke/Monty you may have your magazine back
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  2369. that was Helmuth von Moltke that stated "No battle plan ever survives contact with th enemy"
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  2370. Look matt, you're a confused, nationalistic fanboi spitting out complete fantasy nonsense. From a Balkans Poster - Monty was mediocre - to arguably even poor. Britain had a chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940. She failed utterly and miserably. From that point onward, whatever Montgomery does and regardless of what happens to him - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US. In that order Your argument for Montgomery's quality as a general seems to be based on revision and Germany losing WWII :-). I can't think of a more dimwitted position. He was in fact one the worst overall commander of any combatant in WWII. Your claims are so absurd it basically disqualifies you from any serious discussion on this topic. You are an indoctrinated fauntleroy and don't know the first thing about what you're talking about. Monty didn't plan Normandy ,he planned the disaster at Caen you unread rube.Adml Ramsay and US Officers brought in from the Pacific that were landing every damn day planned the beach landings.The only thing Monty knew of beaches was getting shoved off one at Dunkirk. Of course after the GIs arrived that never happened again.Bernard had 4 full years to cross 30 miles of channel,go ask the euros shouldn't take you 4 yrs Blood,Sweat and Arrogance,by Gordon Corrigan. National myth has it that Monty took over a defeated,demoralized and badly led 8th Army,and by his own abilities and powers of leadership won the great victory of Alamein and then went on to drive the Germans & Italians out of North Africa in a whirlwind campaign that could not have been achieved by anyone else. We know this because Montgomery has told us so not only by his masterly grasp of public relations at the time but in one of the most self serving memoirs ever foisted on the reading public,one that did immense harm to Anglo-American relations after the war.Monty was jealous of the success of others and unable to admit that something had not gone exactly as he had intended
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  2371. Try by using using the address bar at the top of the page to relieve others from the responsibility of furthering your education. You were wrong about what stopped the column immediately and you are wrong here. The failure of Montgomery to heed the allied reconnaissance information during the planning was the biggest flaw. The ability of the Germans to respond and take a mishmash of broken, depleted troops, hastily assembled from miscellaneous units with a wild assortment of backgrounds then organize them to fight was a big factor in the outcome. An actual Field Marshall Walter Model was there and directing operations during hostilities unlike Bernard - that proved his new attempts at slithering about weren't any more successful than his previous ones 🔶 There were cock ups all the way back to the Belgian Border and it didn't involve Gavin or the 82nd. So these slappies apply their British Mythology and try to blame bernard's buffoonery on an Americans 55 miles down the road. 34,400 go in and 17,000 come out.But in Britain they call you a Field Marshall for that tripe - MONTY GARDEN 🔶 The XXX Corp Armored column made it a whole 7 miles the 1st day as Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bringing the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but a prime example of the clownish incompetence of Monty's command 🔶 Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border town of Neerpelt, until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:35 in the Afternoon the 1st day? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown 🔶 And why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site?* 🔶 Monty neither captured the V-2 launch sites, Arnhem or Antwerp during Market Garden. And the reprisals brought on the Honger Winter in which 20-22,000 Dutch Citizens froze and or starved 🔶 Why were Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchful RAF at Pannerden, and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same? Not in September, not in October and not in November.
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  2372. Montgomery owns it,not only demanded this operation but got scarce once it was launched.He failed to show like an actual Field Marshall Walter Model.Model was playing chess and Monty....well was playing with himself
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  2373. Um no From The Guns at Last Light,page 282,by Rick Atkinson The new bridgehead over the Waal failed to uncork failed to uncork the advance to Arnhem as Montgomery had hoped. After a 35 hr delay at Nijmegen,XXX Corps vanguard sat for another 18hrs .Enemy raids on Hell's Highway played hob:reinforcements from the 43rd Division took 3 days to travel 60 miles in reaching the Irish Guards and 82nd Airborne .Gavin concluded after 4 yrs british veterans were excessively cautious,nurturing what he called "Why die now" sentiments.He found Colonel Tucker in a farmhouse near the rail bridge seething at the delay. "What in the hell are they doing,why the hell don't they get on to Arnhem" Tucker demanded.
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  2374. Center of Military History,The United States Army,The Sigrfied Line Campaign p.174 Spearheading the 30 Corps ground column reconnaissance troops of the Guards Armoured Division linked with Colonel Tucker's 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 the morning of D plus 2, 19 September. (See Map IV) Major formations of the British armor were not far behind. From that point priority of objectives within the sector of the 82d Airborne Division shifted unquestionably in the direction of the bridge at Nijmegen. Already at least thirty-three hours behind schedule because of earlier delays south of Eindhoven and at Zon the ground column had to have a way to get across the Waal. Pages 184-185 First Attempts To Drive on ArnhemCounting from the time of first contact between the British ground column and the 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 on D plus 2, 19 September, until the Nijmegen bridge was taken at 1910 on D plus 3, 20 September, a case could be made to show that the ground column was delayed at Nijmegen for almost thirty-five hours Yet this would be to ignore the facts that first arrivals of the ground column represented no more than a forward reconnaissance screen and that several hours elapsed before sizable British units began to arrive. Indeed, almost another twenty-four hours would elapse after capture of the Nijmegen bridge before the British would renew the drive on Arnhem
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  2375. Real cute Lyndon talking to his alias account .Getting busted as others were talking to cornell on other threads and Little Lyndon appeared in his place
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  2376. Robert Kershaw, It Never Snows in September (London, 1990), ; Harzer, p.132,C. Bauer, 231-33 this would be the Operation Market Garden where a British officer was captured on D-Day with the plans for the ground markers and smoke signals. Also where The Germans listened in to British radio signals on No.68P sets which captured paratroopers had not destroyed.
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  2377. You broken sprocket this from Seth Seth 1422 It’s clear what was taking place if you read the entry from September 11.Excerpt FromThe Brereton Diaries: The War In The Air In The Pacific, Middle East And Europe, 11 September 1941-8 May 1945 “There were several undesirable features of MARKET. General Browning, who had been charged with planning for MARKET with the 21st Army Group, informed me that at General Montgomery’s insistence he had virtually agreed to drop the 101st Airborne Division in seven separate areas along an axis 30 miles in length to seize key crossings. I objected to this because such dispersion destroys the tactical integrity of a division, presents an insurmountable supply problem, and renders the smaller groups susceptible to being destroyed in detail without accomplishing the mission. I decided that General Taylor, commanding the 101st Airborne Division, would see General Montgomery about a more concentrated landing. If, after the disadvantages of the first maneuver have been explained to General Montgomery, he still insists, we will go in as planned. *”Excerpt FromThe Brereton Diaries: The War In The Air In The Pacific, Middle East And Europe,Lieutenant-General Lewis H. BreretonIt absolutely was a plea to change the order. A division commander would not fly to the continent in wartime four days prior to a major operation for a purely social visit
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  2378. Maybe/maybe not but it was a crap plan that Monty hatched and IKE approved and good soldiers got screwed
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  2379. You've lied once and that has been continuously None of the objectives were met -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Walter Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched obviously sinking that excuse -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success
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  2380. Yup but the congregation doesn't want to hear the brutal truth
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  2381. Um no Monty wouldn't even meet with Taylor who wanted to discuss this logistical nightmare on September 13th
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  2382. Johnny won't leave page numbers so his editing in his own disturbed narrative won't get discovered as he's been busted before.Johhny are you playing with the toaster in the tub again?
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  2383.  @johnburns4017  which babbling slappie got shoved in the channel,embarrassed in Sicily didn't move in Italy,faffed around Caen for 43 days and didn't show for his netherlands operation? A weekend pass out of the home if you get it right
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  2384. Hey lampshade Patton took metz 43 forts with 90,000 troops falling back to the reich,artillary bunkers Herman Balck flooded the 2 rivers and mined all the concrete forts and gun casements. And he still took it with less casualties per day than Bernard @ Monty Garden that the tosser never showed up for. Stick to fighting opponents with spears
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  2385. Blisterhead Burns been busted making up fabrications of text of many authors and has 4 others alias's on your account - to agree with himself on an anonymous message board.Sure sign of mental illness More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 Poulussen couldn't identify an M-1 and was a Photgrapher. Neilands wrote 90 books in 30yrs under different aliases. Only 30 of those were on the war. Read The Full Monty by Hamilton. I think John Burns is mentioned in it
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  2386. you'd best read those comments again. Rather have the ward boy at the center there read them for you - They're in English, don't worry.
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  2387. Evidently security at the home let you escape.......AGAIN
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  2388. So Johnny tell us about your neighbor who named his dog Monty,LMAO - oh there's a ringing endorsement if I ever heard one. Even the other British posters were like "go away" 🤣 . Maybe the ward boy there will give you your magazine's back
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  2389. UM no he lied about that also,claiming there were more prisoners than actual landsers that were present. Blisterhead get the cranium drained, before I give you any more history lessons,you'll have to pick up you plastic soldiers off of the floor over there at the home,it's really pissing off the nurses .Johnny read what Alan Brooke said,rather have your handler read it to you - Monty's fault ,the Air Marshall said it,the Admiral said it other Army officers said it.Ask your voices they'll even tell you.
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  2390. The Mongrel was Monty and had fleas,mange,parasites and mites - but surprise - loved a bath,do you hear that Lucian?As much as he treaded around in the Channel should have shed those buggars
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  2391.  @akgeronimo501  The Burnhole end,I'm reading Winston's War by Hastings these revisionist slappies heads would explode if they had it read to them Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.181-83 Churchill considered the Dec 7,1941 attack "a blessing.....greater good fortune has never happened to the British Empire." Churchill wrote in his memoirs: saturated and satiated with emotion and sensation, I went to bed and slept the sleep of the saved and thankful. One hopes that eternal sleep may be like that
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  2392.  @akgeronimo501  Most of the Tommies were straight up bangers .How ever they need to remove some of those schmucks off of their estates/manors and strip their nauseating titles that haven't been earned for the last 200 yrs.Assholes like "LORD" Carrington come to mind. Like much of our political/corporate pirates.And of course most of this stable of disabled
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  2393. Your pants a filled again and you're blowing snot bubbles. Have they been holding discos there at the home for you? And even Clark moved farther and faster than bernard,who was in fact pulled - probably to save face after getting schooled in Sicily. Surely couldn't have him embarrassed again
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  2394. Johnny Burns did you really lock yourself in a port a potty and try to tunnel home?
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  2395. Once again Johnny no sources,no book and page number,just Burn's Big Book of Bollocks sourced from your ample backside. Here you go from Winnie himself,have the ward boy at the home there read this to you Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.160 "In private to Herriman. "The PM bluntly stated that he could see no prospect of victory until the United States came into the war." DeGaulle said after Pearl Harbor; "well the war is over. Of course, there are more operations,battles and struggles ahead; but the out come is no longer in doubt. In this industrial war nothing can resist the power of American industry. From now on the British will do nothing with out Roosevelt's agreement." Harold Nicolson wrote "we simply can't be beaten with America in But how strange it is that this great event should be recorded and welcomed here with out any jubilation. We should have gone mad with joy if it had happened a year ago....not an American Flag flying in the whole of London - how odd we are." Churchill had cabled to Antony Eden who was en route to Moscow - "The ascension of the United States makes amends for all, and with time and patience will give certain victory."
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  2396. Blisterhead no sources......AGAIN putting your carnival barking in italics gets you no points, your chirpings are a trifling annoyance So Johnny what should we discuss next? What you're eating before your big dart match? Kippers,Welsh Rabbitt,Porridge Oats,Scotch Eggs,Chips? Sorry Johnny the staff there will only allow velcro, kid approved dart sets for obvious reasons.The only thing pointy you can play with is the cap on your head
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  2397. It was right after that Winston wanted to go to Slovenia thru Ljubljana Pass.That the Austrian Army held for 4 years in WWI,SMDH
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  2398. Why did Alan Brooke cross the road? To help JOHN Burns with his ankle monitor
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  2399. Burns why are you acting up in the comment section.Did the ward boy confiscate your magazines? or were you eating the crayons again.Burns you are obviously referring to Monty Garden,that is what happens when a WW1 sargent is put in charge.Repeatedly Big Brother escorted the crown about to give the Red Army the appearence of a strong front.Good thing the Burns family of Warriors were still tossing back some ales and throwing darts back on the Island
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  2400. Model being an actual Field Marshall conducted a clinic in modern mechanical warfare.I would say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all.He did show up with his loofah how ever Johnny,rub-a dub,dub -get into the tub
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  2401.  @akgeronimo501  well he lives with mum and plays his plastic green army men.Mum sends him over to the center though when she's working,nurses and ward boys have to keep an eye on that rascal
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  2402.  @akgeronimo501  Crickets,Johnny never tries telling Europeans what happened.They remember seeing those bloated Burns backsides beating it up the gangplanks,then heading off into the desert.While simultaneously screaming at the Americans "hey Germany 1st"
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  2403.  @akgeronimo501  She'll come here and sit on TIKs lap so she and Burns can get there empty heads patted. I think a certain someone just deleted my post
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  2404.  @akgeronimo501  have TIK read RW Thompson,Carlo D'este,Atkinson,Corelli Barnett,Tim Collins actual students,not stewed newts
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  2405. no TIK doesn't he disregards mountains of evidence to the contrary.Don't be decieved by the pictorials,he's good at that but no real accurate content that an actual historian would never leave out
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  2406.  @Improveng1  true they didn't do crap for the poor poles and to say otherwise is trying to hide the truth.But that guy gets jiggy with the facts
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  2407.  @lyndoncmp5751  latrine now we know why Youtube deleted your John Cornell account. You fauntleroys did nothing for Poland. You neither landed there,advance to help them nor set foot there. Czechoslovakia was invaded with Britain's permission when signing them over at Munich Agreement in 1938. Appeasement to a madman from a coward. That happened, didn't it? By what right did Britain have to give away other people's shit like that nation's? Were there any representatives from Czechoslovakia present during that particular cowardly act? Was their voice even considered? Why did the British declare war on Germany by posturing to protect Poland - that they had neither the power nor the will and did nothing to actually defend?* You are called "Great Britain" but when the Wehrmacht threatens you with annihilation, you became "The United Kingdom". You asked for the U.S. to aid you in defeating what you created - then you came like beggars asking for help after a humiliating escape in fishing boats but now speak ill of those that so stupidly came to help you
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  2408. your damn right silly you - get the fluid drained from that fat ugly head. You poofs did nothing from Sep'39 until May 10th 1940(sitzkreig) then fought 16 days before getting routed off the beaches to escape on fishing boats as the French were taking bullets. All safe and sound back home in less than a month - Empire? :face-blue-smiling:. No worries the big boys would cross an ocean so you could wash off in the channel and try again
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  2409. That's right lyndon take a break from blaming GIs to take shots at the Poles/Canadians.You Imperial Inbreds can never bring yourselves to blame yourselves. Look, you're a confused, nationalistic British guy spitting out complete fantasy nonsense. Such an English thing to blame everyone else - Dunkirk was the fault of the French/Belgians/Dutch. Singapore was the fault of the Australians/New Zealanders. Market Garden was the fault of the Canadians/Poles/GI's. While for 4 FULL years the Wehrmacht sat 30 miles across the English Channel and the Limey's run away into the desert emptier than your head
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  2410. Try typing into the the search bar BBC Battlefields of WWII 4 Arnhem Sir Richard Holmes will tell you the truth - MONTY GARDEN. He is not prone to promoting Britsh Mythology like the gamer TIK . Major Tony Hibbert explains how Carrington stopped short of the Bridge. Real British gentleman telling the truth unlike the unhinged halfwits in this shabby hamlet
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  2411. https://youtu.be/pZZMaWxIxrU
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  2412. bullshit alexander gave Monty preferential treatment and the inside road on Sicily.Patton decided to show the allies monty was an over inflated old woman.And British Military`manuever left a lot to be desired.Pretty much a limited partner and a supporting role after that.
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  2413. Can't make this up two rube's from the home agreeing put their heads together and get a rock pile 🤣giving themselves the thumbs up. Try time stamping that when does he say that? Monty didn't take Antwerp even Horrocks said they could of,then he ignored IKE the Air Marshalls and ULTRA. If Monty wasn't faffing away he could have tried it. Nigel is a Monty Fanbois but he Wrote the Full Monty you two may be mentioned in it
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  2414. Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013 To quote someone who lives there Oddball SOK wrote and isn't it ironic that the biggest Rhine bifurcation was the WAAL at Nijmegen and the 30crps effectively HAD crossed the Rhine and all they had to do is do the same as the Germans at Pannerden Ferry:PUT TANKS ACROSS THE Pannerden and you were in free accessible German tank land !Only a small river Oude Ijssel at Doetinchem (which was there too after Market Garden ;p )and go go go into das deutsche Reich?!Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come ? How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over,under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September,not in October and not in November Just look at it at google maps: the river looks like nothing.... And it still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction
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  2415. Burns Outside of your posts being totally full of shit,they're not that bad - well yes they are. Market Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Monty is handed command.SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 70 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout troop.Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved .And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have been.Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after AlameinI do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easilysaid Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt The 1st Para almost got wiped out the 82nd didn't.The 82nd stayed mobile and protected it landing zones to get resupplied.Drops came in for 3 straight days and LZs got attacked twice.Had Monty been this stickler to detail that morons like you proclaim he would have noticed this.Unlike Model,Montgomery wasn't really a Field Marshall - more like a field mouse
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  2416. Vile Anus vented Montgomery was an army group commander in a different army ------------------------------------------------------------ The way he took to the water at Dunkirk the Gerries thought he was a Navy man,do you hear me lucian?
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  2417.  @marksummers463  dood put the pint down I'm on your side of the argument
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  2418. Really
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  2419. More fauntleroys singing out of key, john burns being unbelievable has switched to his davemac account - interesting Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings Three distinguished British officers who fought in Holland that winter and later became army commanders believed that the Allied cause could have profited immeasurably from giving a more important role to Patton. -Lieutenant Edwin Bramall said: “I wonder if it would have taken so long if Patton or Rommel had been commanding.” -Capt. David Fraser who as a Grenadier took part in the Battle of Nijmegen wrote later "with out Antwerp, I do not believe that Market Garden could possibly have been exploited for the pupose for which it was devised. Operation Market Garden was as an exact sense ,futile . It was thoroughly a bad idea, badly planned and only tragically redeemed by the outstanding courage of those who executed it". He also believed that the northern axis of advance was always hopeless, because the terrain made progress so difficult. He suggests: “We might have won in 1944 if Eisenhower had reinforced Patton.There were bigger hills further south, but fewer rivers.” -Brigadier Michael Carver argued that Montgomery’s single thrust could never have worked: “Patton’s army should have been leading the U.S. 12th Army Group.” Such speculations can never be tested, but it seems noteworthy that two British officers who later became field-marshals and another who became a senior general believed afterwards that the American front against Germany in the winter of 1944 offered far greater possibilities than that of the British in Holland, for which Montgomery continued to cherish such hopes. Freddie de Guingand, Montgomery’s Chief of Staff confided to Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay on 28 November (according to the admiral’s diary) that he was “rather depressed at the state of the war in the west . . . the SHAEF plan had achieved nothing beyond killing and capturing a some Germans, and that we were no nearer to knocking out Germany.” Between the beginning of November and mid-December 1944, British Second Army advanced just ten miles
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  2420.  @tomasdawe9379  Good Post
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  2421. The evidence is the argument,jesus now I've heard it all
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  2422. I've time stamped it listen to what they all say https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys
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  2423.  @davidrendall7195  Thanx for your response and sharing your insight but that is not proof of anything & doesn't go with saying The Auk should be let go especially after just winning 1st Alamein. So what - Monty was an insider doesn't change the fact that during Caen,Falaise,Monty Garden he was a marginal Commander at best insubordinate/incompetent at worst.He in fact telling out right lies during Caen and OMG telling IKE/Brooke/Press things were going smashingly when in fact they were swirling the drain. And the Auk/Dorman-Smith laid those mine fields at Alam Halfa Ridge that the Knob Monty tried to take credit for. So the Auk was set up to fail? Perhaps Brooke should have taken the high road and not done that. But not sure if that is something that is bred into the Aristocracy . I could see if O'Connor was available but Monty?Meh - regarding Collins we're splitting hairs he was mentioning actual commanding chronological order so sans the ranks he's right about positioning While Claude certainly hung onto Cunnigham and Ritchie too long it certainly wasn't more flagrant than Monty's cock ups. After Gott's plane never arrived courtesy of the Luftwaffe Monty didn't go on the offensive for 9 weeks and that was Auchinleck's time line. Winnie sacked him for not moving immediately - that was wrong. Time was needed to refit/resupply and obviously reinforce. Monty turned around and told Winnie he had to do all of those things.So the PM had to eat crow as he wasn't never admitting The Auk was let go under false pretenses. Bernard fed the hero starved press a lot of hooey and played them like a cheap violin. His pumped up resume from the Desert is collected from a situation that any capable commander could have handled - seriously. He created absolutely Zero of those many advantages in N.A.,8th Army morale wasn't low after just tasting victory - that's a bunch of revisionist rot Coningham/Cunningham (alsoTedder)hated his guts and not out of professional jealousy .They did so much to clear the Med's Skies/Seas of the Wehrmacht supply line. Bernard couldn't help himself telling any one who would listen how he did it all. Of course no one could mention ULTRA he prattled on obnoxiously so. Once in Normandy the BEF was hemmed in on the beach as he didn't grab or clear any airfields.This is where his bs was on display as he made it clear (obviously it wasn't) that he was going to break out and head inland with out grabbing airfields. That was an objective he blew past and Mallorey/Tedder/Coningham were none to happy PS I don't get the "too Senior to Command" statement about The Auk - then what great things did he go on and do in India? Were these administrative? IMO Claude worked off of Smith well and vise versa. I know about Gott/Slim but am not familiar with Anderson/Lumsden
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  2424. There are many factors that can be cited for the failure of Operation Market Garden, all deserving of consideration: -- The report by OB West blamed the decision to spread the airborne drop over more than one day as the main reason for the failure. -- The Luftwaffe agreed and added that the airborne landings had been spread too thinly and too far from the Allied frontline. -- General Student thought the airborne landings were a great success and blamed the failure on the slow progress of XXX Corps. In this respect, Generalfeldmarschall Model deserves credit for the skill with which he used the sparse resources available to him, particularly given the state Fifteenth Army was in at the time, and for recognising the importance of the Nijmegen bridges. -- Lt General Brereton reported to Washington that Market had been a brilliant success but had been let down by Garden, with which Bradley in part agreed, blaming Montgomery and the slow advance by the British between Nijmegen and Arnhem. -- Major General Urquhart blamed the fact that the drop zones for 1st Airborne were too far from the bridge and rather unfairly, his own actions on the first day. -- Lt General Browning's report blamed XXX Corps' underestimation of the strength of the German forces in the area, the slowness with which it moved up the highway, the weather, his own communications staff and 2nd Tactical Air Force for failing to provide adequate air support. He also managed to get General Sosabowski dismissed from his command for his increasingly hostile attitude. -- Field Marshal Montgomery blamed the slowness of XXX Corps in general and O'Connor in particular. Later, he partially blamed himself, but laid a large proportion of the blame on Eisenhower. There is also the matter of allowing the German Fifteenth Army to escape into northern Holland where it could defend the approaches to Arnhem by not clearing the Scheldt estuary, the nature of the highway along which XXX Corps had to advance (a two tank front), the failure to appreciate the unpredictability of the British weather in September, the critical requirement of good communications, which at that point in history was unlikely given the level of technology available and the blatant ignoring of intelligence (from both the Dutch resistance and reconnaissance flights) that armoured units had moved into the Arnhem area Sosabowski in particular feared a flexible, speedy, and strong response, saying, “The British are not only grossly underestimating German strength in the Arnhem area, but they seem ignorant of the significance Arnhem has for the Fatherland.”
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  2425. Center of Military History The United States Army The Sigfried Line Campaign Page174 Spearheading* the 30 Corps ground column reconnaissance troops of the Guards Armoured Division linked with Colonel Tucker's 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 the morning of D plus 2, 19 September. (See Map IV) Major formations of the British armor were not far behind. From that point priority of objectives within the sector of the 82d Airborne Division shifted unquestionably in the direction of the bridge at Nijmegen. Already at least thirty-three hours behind schedule because of earlier delays south of Eindhoven and at Zon the ground column had to have a way to get across the Waal. Pages 184-185 First Attempts To Drive on Arnhem Counting from the time of first contact between the British ground column and the 504th Parachute Infantry at Grave at 0820 on D plus 2, 19 September, until the Nijmegen bridge was taken at 1910 on D plus 3, 20 September, a case could be made to show that the ground column was delayed at Nijmegen for almost thirty-five hours Yet this would be to ignore the facts that first arrivals of the ground column represented no more than a forward reconnaissance screen and that several hours elapsed before sizable British units began to arrive. Indeed, almost another twenty-four hours would elapse after capture of the Nijmegen bridge before the British would renew the drive on Arnhem Borrowed this from a US vet on these pages Seems like Monty forgot that basic fact of Warfare. The commander who underestimates his enemy ( especially when his own intelligence apparatus is ringing alarm bells ) is a fool.The subordinate commanders did not plan the over all operation, Monty did. The subordinate commanders only planned their part of the operation based on the flawed intelligence provided to them by Montgomery's HQ. Instead of facing old men, cripples, and boys, the Airborne Carpet of Market Garden was thrown against two SS Panzer Divisions, and other quality German Units. Hell even the Luftwaffe showed up for a bit. People criticize Jim Gavin of the 82nd Airborne for taking the time to secure his drop zones, and supplies before attempting to take the Nijmegen bridge. That is just stupid criticism from people who benefit from 20/20 hindsight. What do you call an Airborne soldier with no secure drop zones and no re-supply? You call that Airborne soldier a corpse, or a prisoner of war. See British First Airborne
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  2426.  @davidrendall7195  quit conveniently scapegoating dead GIs,that you enjoy - then you may get a different response.I'll tip my cap all day long to the Tommies sans Monty/Carrington but won't listen to descendants flip the script on actual events Everything I've stated is accurate twice you've stated about Gavin and ignored that Browning himself saying he ordered him to do so - in 1955. Either way had Model dropped either of the Bridges(Nijmegen/Arnhem) - this argument is moot - that is why it was such a crap idea. The only reason he didn't was he was confident enough he'd be using them - that's a commander. Had Monty opened the Scheldt like SHAEF wanted this still would have been a bad idea, but at least they would have had enough supplies. The British drops more often than not landed in the hands of the HEER . Those aren't data drops they're the direct quotes from Historians who have the bibliography to prove it. My uncles were WW2 veterans and 2 of my brothers served - that has nothing to do with this discussion
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  2427. Read Winston's War or Masters and Commanders,just to get a glimpse of the overall picture.Unless of course you have your mind made up.Italy was Winston's idea the soft underbelly,FDR or Stalin were not on board with it.Even Winston at the end admitted the Italian campaign was kaput and the terrain terrible to attack.Hell it took 4 months just to take Monte Casino.
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  2428.  @davidrendall7195  Little Villa calls me Para Dave(repeatedly) because I defended your dismemberment of his mate John Cornell - a sick little joke between the two .Who evidently has changed his name but still cavorts with his tart Vile .If you'd like I can direct you to his unflattering remarks, provided Villa hasn't deleted them. Vile has crapped on dead GIs blaming them repeatedly. Villa didn't leave a link because he'd be pointing out his own slanderous cheap shots that he mentioned regarding you go ahead sak him for links,he has the spine of a gummy bear.Go look for yourself the shit he has said on the 8,000 post TIK board(waste of time)and now (s)he's pissing his bloomers knowing you'd beat him like a dusty rug. Ask him about his mum who took 3 Gerries prisoner.He gets his wires crossed all the time,even tried babbling about the obsolete German equipment.I broke down every tank/artillery/pistol/rifle/land mine,pointed out V-rockets,ME 262,yup really behind the times.And the authors he slanders have the bibliography to prove it.Ya Dr Buckingham is shyt,but he'll quote a hack that wrote 90 books in 30 years under different names - and only 30 of them on the war. Villa makes up shit tell him to pull the actuall post where I degraded cancer sufferers - this is what a petulant juvenile (s)he is. As he was badmouthing GIs I simply pointed out my sources were taken from the archives at The Center of Military History of the United States Army.And that his fictitious formations were coerced from a guy who had 5 wives and committed suicide.That is nothing like him throwing dead GI's under the bus in an attempt to prop up a someone who wasn't even there to direct VILLA is a sick knob who has made up other accounts to agree with himself.just a coincidence I'm sure Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2429. Vile Just so you don't go back and and start deleting posts there are 2975 there You have the spine of a Gummybear sucking up to a guy you were badmouthing 2 yrs ago with Cornell. Since you seem inclined to share old posts you obviously left out what I was responding to so here goes.I mentioned 2-3 years ago the guy had a relative in OMG and attended Sandhurst and sarcastically you flip the script. Seagulls have come out of jet engines making more sense than You juvenile delinquent troll act all offended when you get responses to posts like those VVVV The Villa Aston1 year ago ​ @akgeronimo501 Big Woody also goes by the name of 'Para Dave' - who has been to Sandhurst and is a realtive of Brian Urquhart. Doubtless the only Sandhurst he has been to is Sandhurst Drive, Cleveland, Ohio, USA. The bit about Brian Urquhart might be true. After all, its so likely that a relative of a former Under-Secretary-General of the United Nations would comment on YouTube. The Villa Aston1 year ago My mother captured a German airman in September 1940. Doubtles his mum, when confronted with his biological father and a few others said 'OK, I will take you all on, you can toss a coin to decide who goes first.' I am not a nice person.Btw. You and Para Dave/Big Woody's mother have a connection. Signed The Cad. The Villa Aston1 year ago @akgeronimo501 R Damn what? Jabo's sister, Para Dave / Big Woody's mother. Para Dave's, sorry Big Woody's mum made a mistake in the back seat of a car in Cleveland , Ohio, USA about 17 years ago. I wonder if the biological dad is British. It might explain a lot. Big Woody1 year ago @TheVilla Aston dickhead for the 20th time you keep telling yourself this Para Dave bullcrap and for the 21st time I'll tell you delusional asshole produce a post - that I claim to be the guy who destroyed your bitch Cornhole .Still hoping Ireland gets fire bombed? You've been caught lying almost as much as Burns and Monty .Oh now you quote Hastings when it serves your purpose. Book and Page number please Big Woody1 year ago VA I see you actually came across Dave Rendall - why didn't you call him out about his relatives at OMG. You talk a lot of shit out of hearing distance don't you?It was on TIK's Beevor Board - ya know TIK - the guy you claimed on this board to know nothing about .You have one thing right - Lying Hound, ROTFL
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  2430. Quick check on Lumsden, having served under Monty and MacArthur - which I can't even imagine - he's earned the pearly gates Career In January 1942 Lumsden joined the Desert War when he was appointed commander of the 1st British Armed Division. Soon after arriving he was badly wounded in an air attack and was replaced by Frank Messervy. Lumsden returned to duty in May, 1942, and serving under Neil Richie, suffered defeat at Gazala in June. This military disaster resulted in the appointment of General Bernard Montgomery as commander of the Eighth Army. Montgomery immediately removed most of the senior officers who had been fighting in Egypt under General Claude Auchinleck. As Lumsden had only just arrived he was promoted to commander of the new 10th Corps. Lumsden suffered heavy losses in the battle at Kidney Hill (27th October - 4th November) but still managed to break through the lines of the Deutsches Afrika Korps and reached El Agheila. General Bernard Montgomery and Lumsden disagreed about the tactics being used in the Desert War and this led to several arguments. On 13th December 1942 Montgomery sacked Lumsden and replaced him with Brian Horrocks. Afterwards Lumsden commented that "There just isn't room in the desert for two - like Montgomery and me." Lumsden was liked and respected by Winston Churchill and in 1944 he was sent to join the staff of General Douglas MacArthur. On 6th January 1945 Lumsden was observing the bombardment of Lingayen Gulf on board New Mexico when it was hit by a kamikaze pilot. Herbert Lumsden died from his injuries and was buried at sea.
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  2431. Any possibility Lumsden served with O'Connor?if so I would have been time well spent listen to their opinions or to even draw up plans.Had ULTRA been fully operational in early '41 perhaps O'Connor is not nabbed out front reconnoitering.He adapted his experience and ability to mobile mechanical warfare After capturing Tobruk in Jan and then securing a surrender from a large group of surviving Italians in Feb. The offensive campaign he orchestrated advanced 800 miles, captured 130,000 prisoners, captured 400 tanks, and captured 1,292 guns, all at the cost of only about 1,800 casualties (500 killed). Afterward in Feb the offensive was halted due to the situation in Greece.Taking the 50,000 battle hardened troops when O'Connor was on the cusp of administering the coup de grace before jackboots ever hit the desert sands was a setback.Weakening positions in both locations.I ordered a book from a private library on O'Connor but came up empty might try that again
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  2432. It is interesting shame about Lumsden,read some other materiel on him and his quote evidently was "There just isn't room in the desert for two Cads - like Montgomery and me." So chippy with a sense of humor,that will work in a lot of places.Surprisingly MacAthur had some kind remarks in a quick eulogy as Lumsden was buried at sea
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  2433. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan
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  2434. More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2435. Bullshit Monty had his single thrust debacle at Holland.Secretly IKE new it was shit but now Churchill/Brooke and most definitely Monty had to eat it on their theory.The broad front pressured the gerries everywhere as they were lossing men they couldn't replace.Monty's plan got curbstomped by cooks,mechanics and sailors.Even Model couldn't believe they'd be that damn dumb.64 miles - one elevated road - no room for manuever - what could possibly go wrong.ROTFL
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  2436. From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group.IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to the left flank(21st Army) through out the campaign.Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies. IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  2437. Blisterhead Burns this from a Hungarian poster As it turned out Churchill kept Britain in the war and she turned out the biggest loser of any participant.. Only now are you really feeling the effect of that loss. The fact that, in a way - you actually lost World War II. In a pretty big way, one might argue. What was it? A quarter of the globe? You lost a quarter of the globe? Now you're second-fiddle to the Germans again.. they lost less territory than you, in the end. And make no mistake - the Empire was the price of American help. Now you get to be their satellite rather than the Germans'... well, at least they speak the same language :). I can't imagine what Hitler could have done beyond stripping you of (virtually) all of your overseas holdings and influence. And the Americans did that anyway... so... who knows. But you hardly could've gotten off worse than you did. Second. Fiddle. To. Germany. Over to you johnny!!! :face-blue-smiling:
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  2438. Old bitter delusional Johnnie squawking bombast in the land of make believe.Johnnie it's Friday get all gussied up in your "Who Farted" Shirt and head out to Picadilly
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  2439. He comes out almost as clean as Lucian after Monty gives him a good scrubbing
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  2440. The tanks were not on time,the whole column was stopped just 3 miles from the start when Panzerfaust teams took out 9 Shermans stopping the advance.Not long after a bridge was blown by the Gerries .XXX Corp made it 7 miles the 1st day south of Valkenswaard .As Horrocks and Vandeleur stopped at 6 PM after starting just 4 hrs earlier at 2 PM.Horrocks promised a rapid advanced but never really pushed it.This debacle should not have been considered let alone launched
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  2441. No he didn't the Gerries already knew the formations were coming as they were stationed there along the coast. The British Planners of Comet/Linnet pointed this out that all surprise was lost and canceled them for good reason. And Why would Horrocks/Dempsey/Vandeluer sit there and watch planes fly over that they couldn't possibly hope to catch up to? Then stop at 6 pm with another hour of daylight? Monty Garden that is why - the pillock was nowhere around .Like an actual Field Marshall Walter Model This is why The BEF was evacuated from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 -Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 -Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Piss poor planning on their part
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  2442. Monty pushed this forward and that is a fact - it should not have been considered let alone launched. Trying to push a whole armored column up one road elevated 55 of it's 70 miles should have been warning enough. The criticism of Market Garden is redeemed by its utter failure. Not sure how one can argue away the loss of time/men/materiel/machines on a reckless adventure that accomplished nothing except prolonging the war And kept the port of Antwerp that was desperately needed, from being opened If they by some miracle make the Bridge at Arnhem, they are killed,captured or wounded. Out of supplies/ammo/food/fuel and Model is bringing everything in fresh by rail from the nearby Ruhr. The subordinate commanders did not plan the overall operation, Monty did. The subordinate commanders only planned their part of the operation based on the flawed intelligence provided to them by Montgomery's HQ Instead of facing old men, cripples, and boys, the Airborne Carpet of Market Garden was thrown against two SS Panzer Divisions, and other quality German Units. It became apparent rather quickly to the commanders on the ground that the intelligence regarding the positions, strength, and composition of enemy forces they had been given by Monty's HQ was worthless. Hell even the Luftwaffe showed up for a bit.
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  2443.  @Peorhum  I have no problem with the British Planners - that MONTY IGNORED leading to Market Garden
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  2444. nope already answered that on the other Board - MONTY GARDEN.Even Brooke raked him over the coals for it. And he even in a rare admission of guilt admitted it after the war. Oh and the Gavin wasn't farting around Browning and him never focused on that,it was an observance this why you would get pounded.Both the Battle of France and The Ardennes were launched out of the Woods. So naturally they would notice that.Unlike Monty who trying to grab his last chance at stardom
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  2445.  @OldWolflad  Once again your british mythology is bleeding thru - see this is why you got your asses kicked out of all those places mentioned up thread. Again below for you to peruse,admitting you have a problem is the 1st step in changing it. Piss poor planning on Bernard's part, The damn tanks were suppose to be at Nijmegan in 2 day not in just under 4.But I guess that's what Monty or XXX Corp considered fast. And the 82nd AB were on foot and attacked by elements of Victor Graebner's 9th SS in armor BTW. The same units that hemmed in Frost's British AB on the north side of the Arnhem Bridge
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  2446.  @OldWolflad  The failure of Montgomery to heed the allied reconnaissance information during the planning was the biggest flaw. Montgomery discounted the basic logistical reality that he ignored not only one elevated road but that the Wehrmacht were falling back upon their own supply and logistical centers The Germans had mastered this practice exiting the Eastern Front then proceeding to France. The German Divisions could be quickly refitted and reinforced with replacement up to full strength in short order. As one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in that area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches accompanying them where armored columns couldn't go Also ignoring the ability of the Germans to respond and take a mishmash of broken, depleted troops, hastily assembled from miscellaneous units with a wild assortment of backgrounds then organize them to fight was a big factor in the outcome. An actual Field Marshall Walter Model was there and directing operations during hostilities unlike Montgomery *There were cock ups all the way back to the Belgian Border town of Neerpelt. And it didn't involve Gavin or the 82nd 55 miles down the road. 34,400 go in and 17,000 come out. But in Britain they call you a Field Marshall for that tripe.It was a bad plan right from the start and right from the top - MONTY GARDEN* 🔸 The 1st day Panzerfaust teams were taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start at the Belgian border town of Neerpelt .Bringing the whole column to a halt. XXX Corp advance stopped for the night 7 miles from the start!!! This of course wasn't their fault but a prime example of the clownish incompetence of Monty's command 🔸 The lack of initiative/tactics by ground force commanders - Dempsey/Horrocks/Vandeleur sitting on their arses in their tanks until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:35 in the afternoon - did they think they would catch up? Stopping at 6:00 pm when it was dark by 7:30 (5 hours later) on the 1st day? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown Instead of limping into Valkenswaard 🔸 And why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 3 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site?* 🔸 Monty neither captured the V-2 launch sites, Arnhem or Antwerp during Market Garden. And the reprisals brought on the Honger Winter in which 20-22,000 Dutch Citizens froze and or starved 🔸 Why were Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchful RAF at Pannerden, and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same? Not in September, not in October and not in November.
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  2447. Ahole look at the comments,you'd think the britsh sailed the other way and helped the USA you pimpy little shits. There is a reason Stalin talked directly past Churchill at Tehran,Yalta and Potsdam to FDR/Truman. You gt run off of the European continent because of incompetant so called commanders like Brooke and Bernard.These brainiacs took 4 yrs to cross a crummy channel after they got run into it. Go tell your twisted tales to the Rest of Europe.
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  2448. he can't - it was a crap plan
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  2449. Ya sure what ever you say VA, they knew they never threw Patton in the channel like the phony Field Marshall From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easilysaid Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt
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  2450. Burns you've lied once and that has been continuously Lt Gen Browning to Maj Gen G. E. Prier-Palmer, British Joint Services Mission, Washington, D.C., 25 Jan 55, excerpt in OCMH "I personally gave an order to Jim Gavin that, although every effort should be made to effect the capture of the Grave and Nijmegen Bridges as soon as possible, it was essential that he should capture the Groesbeek Ridge and hold it —for … painfully obvious reasons …. If this ground had been lost to the enemy the operations of the 2nd Army would have been dangerously prejudiced as its advance across the Waal and Neder Rhein would have been immediately outflanked. Even the initial advance of the Guards Armoured Division would have been prejudiced and on them the final outcome of the battle had to depend." Pretty straight forward and simple - even you can understand it
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  2451. Your full of shit Giovanni Johnny Burns came across the The Atlantic and Monty couldn't go across the channel...after getting driven into it.Repeat that out loud - now get back to mopping the Puddles at the Adult theater.asshole the Aussies/Kiwis are still pissed your Crown left them after they fought for the it. No worries Chester Nimitz,the 3rd & 7th fleets and the Marines picked up the tab
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  2452. your bowel movements don't count blisterhead you do that a lot in the form of posts
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  2453.  @castlecircle7612  that was for Burns but you're welcome to it
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  2454. Extra point question johnny,What continent did GeneralsGort,Brooke and Montgomery turn their backs on and skedaddle in the other direction .The same continent the 82nd Airborne never retreated from.Take your time I know it's a tough one.And pick your plastic soldiers up off the steps - mum will be home soon
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  2455. No but with some of his rantings I think he was a roadie for Zepplin.They got the good drugs
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  2456. Puddles we can tell you are lying when your lips move.There were at least 25 tanks there on Sept 7th - many historians have pointed this out.Monty even admitted it later.A rare occurance indeed.Only an idot would order a whole corp of armor up a 64 mile elevated lane with no room for manuever.And the have no base of supply because said idiot didn't open up Anterp 1st as his directives suggested.Of course that idiot was Monty
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  2457. Clean Monty's cack out of your eyes and stop pulling history out of your very rank crevasse .If they were a disgace they would have been Monty's boys *https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml*At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. Churchill could't believe he appointed Monty after waking up from a 3 day drunk
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  2458. Monty didn't come across his own channel for 4 full years you little freak Burns
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  2459.  @akgeronimo501  Monty could have at least showed up.Still took him more than 6 months from the end of september to cross the Rhine.After Hodges,Patton and the 291st engineers of course and with the help of Simpsons 9th
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  2460.  @akgeronimo501  At least IKE finally - FINALLY realized what a disgusting steaming pile he really was.He should have listened to Tedder,Conningham,Ramsey and Cunningham - all British knew Monty was a tosser
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  2461. As much as I admired Churchill the statesman in military matters he faffed thing to hell and back. You know this after watching the desert generals doco https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1580 time stamped were Historians Barr and Barnett blast Monty's novelish narrative. Claude Auchinleck and Dorman -Smith had just won 1st Alamein FDR and American Foreign Policy,1932-1945,by Robert Dallek,page 347 "Trobruk has surrendered with 25,000 men taken prisoner "the telegram said."....one of the heaviest blows I can recall during the war......I did not attempt to hide from the president the shock I had received" Churchill wrote President Roosevelt made an offer of immediate help. The Americans agreed to ship 300 new Sherman tanks and 150 self propelled 105mm howitzers to the British in North Africa Auchinleck didn't have these as they had not yet arrived but won anyway.So Churchill demands they immediately go on the offensive.They had to refit,resupply,reinforce first.Which would take some time.When Gott got killed in the plane crash they brought in the pedo-Monty.Who sat on his ass for 9 weeks!Which was the time Auchinleck wanted in the 1st place.Luckily for the runt Monty Rommel had to attack because the Torch Landings were bringing in more men/material and the mine fields Auchinlech had laid prevented the Afrika Corp from advancing on the flank at Alam Halfa.Also the Tanks/Artillary that FDR gave Churchill were delivered after Monty got there.He was an extremely lucky little bitch.9weeks he did nothing but Churchill had just fired a much better commander than the Pedo.That video says it all for those to lazy to read
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  2462. Um no,not in September,not in October,not in November.Try April with the US 1st Army and 17th AB I believe.And after Bradley,Hodges,Patton and the 291st Enginners crossed
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  2463. it was a disaster worse than monty garden and IMO was covered up by high command. Who was responsible for letting the least effective allied officer have yet another chance at getting good troops slaughtered
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  2464. If the Russians had Monty the allies would have taken Berlin.And Stalin was killing the enemy where as Churchill was stalling - ya Empire :face-blue-smiling:
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  2465. YAWNING - IKE never got shoved into the channel, and Monty NEVER came back across it until Uncle Joe & Uncle Sam got involved,perhaps you two were getting the FULL MONTY and missed History Class last week ask villa's mum she took some Jerry prisoners . So one of you wags gave a thumbs up to the other for giving a thumbs up :face-blue-smiling: More Monty victims DAVE joined 24 Aug 2013 Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2466. Little villa cross the channel and ask them why they were taking bullets as Bernard was taking to the boats - shouldn't take you 4 full yrs like it did Monty
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  2467. That's right little villa how many Gerries did mum take prisoner? Regale for us these bold actions - evidently she did more than you and pops together for the cause. Have you attended anymore seminars? You know a lot from them, we gather as you have mentioned it many times. Now catch up on your crown's comics and go read Poulussen - he knew who he could sell his novels to
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  2468. a hell of a lot more than an alias troll like you villafication
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  2469. Whistle britches it was in english I even supplied the link - is that concept a little too complex? More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2470. Nobody studies Monty manuevers except for you and the other 4 aliases on your account Johnny. You have a particular faculty of realizing hallucinations,has Montgomery been getting rough with you in the tub again? Ring the nurses station and report this!!! The Lorraine campaign lasted from 1 Sep to Dec, not just 9 days, 6,657 were killed over 3 months and they took 75,000 German PoWs, compared with 17,000 casualties at 9 days of Market Garden (which was more than the invasion of Normandy) including nearly 2,000 Brits and Poles killed before taking the American killed into account. *Market Garden had nearly 3 times the casualties per day. Op Queen and the Hurtgen Forest battles (of which Queen was part) were costly failures, also, but the same argument applies - the period was far longer and the average losses less together with much higher Axis casualties and PoWs and they do not turn Market Garden into a success - it was a failure. Look at a map you don't get it - where the hell do think they were going to punch thru?THEY HAD TO FIGHT THRU - that is why it's called a war. Stalin himself pointed this out to Churchill at Tehran and accused the British of stalling - look that up.Patton wasn't going to leave 90,000 Landsers behind him at Metz that fell to 3rd Army. You are simply a fanboy continually ignoring military logic. Unlike Monty in the Netherlands who took 6 more months to cross the Rhine. Where he had to go back and open up the port of Antwerp on November 28th read it - There was simply no bypassing of Lorraine. General De Gaulle, but most importantly the French people, wanted German Wehrmacht divisions beaten, destroyed or otherwise pushed out of France. It had to be conquered, cleared, and the German divisions defeated or pushed back. Metz was considered one of the most formidable citadels in the world with it's 43 reinforced ferro concrete artillery equipped bunkers that were mined in the front by Gen Herman Balck. The Germans had flooded the Moselle and the Seille rivers. And the GIs still took it on Dec 13th
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  2471. MONTY GARDEN failure = single thrust Johnny at least the GIs helped Monty who got so many Tommies and Canucks killed thru his operations they couldn't help the GIs moving forward into Germany.Give yoy men/materiel/food/fuel and ill informed idgits like you pop off 8 decades later The Lorraine campaign lasted from 1 September – 18 December, not just 9 days so reality exists.They took 55,182 casualties in over 3 months but took 75,000 German PoWs, compared with 17,000 casualties at Market Garden (which was more than the invasion of Normandy) including nearly 2,000 Brits and Poles killed before taking the American killed into account. Market Garden had nearly 3 times the casualties per day. Op Queen and the Hurtgen Forest battles (of which Queen was part) were costly failures, also, but the same argument applies - the period was far longer and the average losses less together with much higher Axis casualties and PoWs and they do not turn Market Garden into a success - it was a failure.
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  2472. September Hope,by John C.McManus,pages 39-40 By September 15,disquieting intelligence about the Arnhem area had come to light.ULTRA AND Dutch intel had detected elements of the 9th& 10 SS Panzer Divisions in Arnhem(Monty later admitted he ignored this).They were not far from the planned British drop zones.Intelligence specialist Maj Brian Urquhart as greatly alarmed by the reports.He already thought that Market Garden was at best a bold gamble ,at worst sheer madness.He was adamantly opposed to it.The Intelligence intercepts were correct.The photographs revealed the presence of camouflaged enemy tanks and self propelled guns in the wooded area near Arnhem September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 42 The sad truth was that Market Garden could not be changed or amended into a better concept. It stood as what it was a deeply flawed plan based mainly on hope.Stemming from the faulty premise that a single thrust into Northern Germany could magically spell doom for Hitler. It was a zero defect plan that could succeed only if everything,or at least most things went right
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  2473. Again thicko doesn't stop children from the home of the disadvantaged like you and Lyndon from popping off Have your "oppo" bernard give you THE FULL MONTY - like he lathered little Lucien. Then perhaps you'll post better
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  2474. Probably at actual Academies & Universities - were you clean latrines
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  2475. Read about the Britsh Crown's crimes in WW1 - like violating international laws and blockading Northern German ports starving 3/4 of a million German Citizens. And then signing the Treaty of Versailles carving up German lands givng them to France/Poland and sticking Germany for the bill in a war they didn't start. They were going to want their lands back - All of that ensured there would be another WAR Also the Royal Crown stiffed the US Treasurey for loans in the 1st WW .Henry Morgenthau wasn't going to let that happen again and you actually got off light. Then the Royal Crown demand reparations at Versailles that nobody else received when they invaded and subjugated counties near/far like Ireland and India, SA, USA & everyone else for 350 years. And you think we evidently owed the British alliance? The only thing that covered up British Thuggery was that Hitler turned into a bigger creep than they. Try going over to Europe and ask them about History The only thing whitewashing the Crown's crimes was Hitler killed more that the Crown did - still doesn't make them right. For God knows what reason Hitler forgot all of that and went after Russia and the Jewish people - you're lucky
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  2476. no Johnny's not corret he's a bent freak with a bruised brain. Monty's boss and everyone else blamed the ankle biter From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary Eisenhower's Armies ,by Dr Niall Barr ,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden, Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer, noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary, followed by an advance on the Rhine, the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticized Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings, Armageddon: The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area. With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" Bernard stayed back at his caravan and gave John Burns THE FULL MONTY
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  2477. yes he did he in fact orderd it - it's friday better get the mop ready at the adult theater Puddles
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  2478.  @johnburns4017  you must be exhaused from the double feature
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  2479. get a life are you a shut in ?another date less night Puddles - thankfully you have your magazines
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  2480. Monty like you didn't do shit at overlord,he did even less in the ardennes and didn't even show up for Arnhem - which he lost as he did at Caen and Falaise.He did depart Dunkirk and ran 3,000 miles into the desert.Tell your novels to Europe and Lucian Treub.FDR and George Marshall let the Brits faff around for old times sake,after all we needed a place to stay
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  2481. They stopped - Arnhem not Nijmegen was the goal - thicko.Carrington,oh excuse me LORD Carrington stopped - like you he had the spine of a gummy bear
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  2482. *From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 * After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem Fancy some more?There's tons,have your handler at the home read you some
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  2483. TIK's board is mostly revisionist many have left condeming links and actual content from real participants and they get deleted - with distressing frequency I might add. Montgomery knew of all the holes in this very bad plan and went forward anyway, this evidence has been presented ad nauseam . Read Brute Force,Desert Generals,Churchill and the Monrgomery Myth,Eisenhower's Armies,Decision in Normandy,IT Never Snows in September,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,The Battle of Arnhem: The Deadliest Airborne Operation of World War II, The Battle of the Generals all much more accurate and detailed with out the rooting interests laid down HERE.
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  2484. get a life he's a revisionist waterhead,he wouldn't dare write a book because his slappies wouldn't be critiquing it like actual accredited historians
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  2485. Um no another one bernard beefed,never had the nads to show up - just like you.The Tanks unfortunately stopped while the 82 nd got 48-51 KIA crossing and 138 wounded - many later dying.While blisterheads like burns sat in tanks
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  2486.  @barryolaith  well put
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  2487. he was talking to the guy above him,is your education system that broken?
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  2488. Pulled your head out of your backside and pick up up some books and you'll see plenty of evidence Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  2489. Johnie, like you Monty was nowhere around 💩
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  2490. No because Monty ignored Brooke,IKE,Admiral Ramsay,Air Marshall Tedder,CoS Bedell-Smith and Allied Intelligence
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  2491. Yes from everything I've read IKE's angst toward Devers was misplaced.Devers had this facial feature that appeared like he was always smirking/laughing at you.Smiling Albert Kesselring if you will
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  2492. Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  2493.  @nickdanger3802  the Brian Urquhart link is good I had left that link on one these boards a few yrs back
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  2494.  @zdzichus.3264  Absolutely - look up the Rhine crossing at Wesel.Bernard got 1,100 British and American Paras KILLED in ONE DAY.And they refer to him as a Field Marshall,more like a failed marsh mellow. The narcissist knob should have been drawn and quartered
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  2495. Monty's failure brought on the reprisals he bragged he'd be in Berlin and never made Arnhem and like everything he spun his wheels in the dirt
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  2496. It's called reprisals you delusional douche nozzle,are you Monty's Swiss Boy
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  2497. Here is a clarification for you "Montgomery Memoirs page 276" "The next day, Bedell Smith came to see me the next day to say that Eisenhower had decided to act as I recommended. The Saar Thrust to be stopped. Three US Division (12 US AG) were to be grounded and their transports used to supply extra maintenance to 21 Army Group. The bulk of the 12 AG logistic support was to be given to 1 US Army on my right and I was to be allowed to deal directly with General Hodges. As a result of these promises I reviewed my Plans with Dempsey and then fixed D-Day for the Arnhem Operation for Sunday 17th September." So clearly Monty stated they were "my plans" that 34,000 went into arnhem and 17,000 came out - in 9 days - there's your hero & the culprit The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, p.303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "And here I must admit a bad mistake on my part –I underestimated the difficulties of opening up the approaches to Antwerp so that we could get free use of the port." ( from Montgomery’s memoirs, p297)​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." MONTY GARDEN And at no point did Gavin or Browning stop to reconoiterre the woods.But British fanbois bring that up to stear attention away XXX Corp in the so called armored advanced that was 24 hrs behind by the end of Day two.Tea time and walkabouts
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  2498. @ I was talking to the idjit Dave above me.He is a fanboi going from board to board and presenting altered views.TIK is chief amongt them he is a gamer but decent enough with his version of cinematoghraphy to convince the unread that the GIs are responsible for this Monty's debacle. His findings usually are getting monty off the hook for an operation he demanded then didn't have the nuts to show up for. Like an actual Field Marshall Walter Model I read the books TIK claims to have read(on hisoriginal OMG Board) and 4 of the 6 he supposedly sourced didn't exonerate Monty - quite the opposite. And his go to sources were not historians at all. Good luck weeding through the chaff on this chaps boards. Plenty of revisionists with shall we say Imperialist interests
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  2499.  @thevillaaston358  evidently the government group home has internet privileges
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  2500. Lucian Uncle Monty will be by to heal what ails you,have a ten year old show you how to link something,not a whole page with 945 posts. More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2501. the sluggo british advance displayed why they were weakest of the allied armies with the most humiliating defeats. Being "evacuated" from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 -Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 -Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 XXX Corp crawl doesn't get there for 3 and a half days.Frost's men were killed and captured and the 82 on foot were chased away by armor - ya Empire
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  2502. More BS from Monty's little tool,tardo quit repeating fairytales.Tankers were late then Sat.Even John Frost blamed them and so did the Germans there.When the Guards Armor finally arrives send them home all is forgiven
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  2503. Have your handler read "A Drop too Many" to you.Frost himself found out how the Guards Armor (Carrington) oops,Lord Carrington sat while his boys and the 82 fought valiently you lying little YouTube Twirp.Should have let the Huns have you then you'd be singing the Beer Barrel Polka.I really hope someone from the 82 catches up to you and lances that boil between your ears.Isn't time for you to clean the Adult Theater?
    1
  2504. Hastings writes a good book and has the sources & research to back it up
    1
  2505. Because they couldn't see it you rube just like you and truth.Funny John Frost and the Germans said it was there and Monty later admitted it.Are you the little swiss boy
    1
  2506. Puddles, your career as a historian continues to skyrocket - not
    1
  2507. Also - You are a fugitive from the law of averages and in line for another beating which if you ask me nicely I shall duly administer
    1
  2508. Your history professor - same as it ever was
    1
  2509. TIK would get beat like a dusty rug.Many British authors come to beevors and hastings conclusions about Monty.The don't care about some slappy blogger
    1
  2510.  @walterm140  well put walter that cornell was a revisionist slappie who evidently has taken leave of his account.Probably from getting blasted with historical facts,you can now find him going by the name of Lyndon CMP,pathetic I know
    1
  2511. Unlike Monty Gavin at least showed up for the operation and monty was a field mouse not a Marshall like Walter Model
    1
  2512.  @corporalpunishment1133  I don't know if that's funny or frightening
    1
  2513. Ya they'd be laughing so hard they couldn't defend themselves.Probably why they may have sent some Burns boys Berlin way 🤣
    1
  2514. Speaking of unsightly lumps and bulges,I never should have encouraged you to speak. Monty tanked all the time - 1st accurate thing you've said for......ever. You tripe talking troll write down what you know. That should leave you with a plenty of free time.The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror.And the Krauts with incredible Joy
    1
  2515. Monty was too busy giving the lads a bath
    1
  2516.  @dmbeaster  Don't bother, Burns is in a government care facility with internet priviliges he wears an ankle monitor and blows snot bubbles.Ask him why MONTY didn't show up to direct during the battle or why neither Monty,Horrocks,Dempsey or Vandaleur ever thought to put the bridging equipment in front of a column that got stopped by Germans blowing bridges. While going up a 70 mile impassable lane just wide enough for two vehicles. Ask him also why they waited until 2:30 in the afternoon to set the column forward as the supply planes flew over - did they think they would catch up? Ya but dullards like johnny try recreating history to get the Tosser Monty off of the hook for his own debacle
    1
  2517. Burns you blowhole monty presented the plan to IKE that would never work with a month to prepare let alone a week.It's pinheads like you the reason the BEF ended in the channel and ran away 3000 miles to desert.Where thanx to ULTRA and those there already and the USA for bringing much more men/materiel that even a misguided skragg like monty could even win given the overwhelming advantages
    1
  2518. Never because he didn't liberate shyt,he just moved to the front when all the hard fighting was done
    1
  2519. Read the Full Monty you two dweebs are mentioned in it.Rub-a-dub-dub
    1
  2520. johnny you're making funny noises stop spooning with lil' villa you snogging wankers - you've been told, now stop it
    1
  2521. The Lorraine campaign lasted from 1 Sep to Dec, not just 9 days, 6,657 were killed over 3 months and they took 75,000 German PoWs, compared with 17,000 casualties at Market Garden in just 9 days (which was more than the invasion of Normandy) including nearly 2,000 Brits and Poles killed before taking the American killed into account. Market Garden had nearly 3 times the casualties per day. Op Queen and the Hurtgen Forest battles (of which Queen was part) were costly failures, also, but the same argument applies - the period was far longer and the average losses less together with much higher Axis casualties and PoWs and they do not turn Market Garden into a success. Market Garden was a failure. Look at a map I don't think you get it - where the hell do think they were going to punch thru?THEY HAD TO FIGHT THRU - that is why it's called a war. Stalin himself pointed this out to Churchill at Tehran and accused the British of stalling - look that up. Patton wasn't going to leave 90,000 Landsers behind him at Metz that fell to 3rd Army. Unlike Monty in the Netherlands who took 6 more months to cross the Rhine. Where he had to go back and open up the port of Antwerp on November 28th. Actually he didn't the Canadians did,and Bernard din't leave them either enough men or materiel as that was wasted on the lopsided loons single thrust
    1
  2522. Well which ones blasted Monty off the beach or into the channel.Or beat his sorry arse in the Dutch Country side
    1
  2523. TS great links,this hive of hallucination won't accept historical narrative as they've went all in on contrarian crap
    1
  2524.  @etangdescygnes  he did,Little Villa is a bullshit revisionist and throws dead GIs under the bus to save British face. You can get these books and check out these references - Even Brooke The Top British Officer and Admiral Ramsay both blamed Bernard. There is alot more but you'll see the point From D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,p229 Monty liked to keep his objectives vague,so that if there was a break out he could claim credit for it.And if the operation ran into the sand he could simply say that they'd been tying down the German Forces to help the Americans The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" Max Hastings, The SECRET WAR, Spies, Ciphers, and Guerrillas 1939 -1945, page 495 “The little British Field-Marshall’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence, and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944 The same overconfidence was responsible for the launch of the doomed airborne assault in Holland on 17 September, despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, together with Field-Marshal Walter Model’s headquarters at Oosterbeek. Had ‘victory fever’ not blinded Allied commanders, common sense dictated that even drastically depleted SS panzers posed a mortal threat to lightly armed and mostly inexperienced British airborne units. Ultra on 14-15 September also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force 70 miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armor, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. The decision to launch Operation Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction
    1
  2525. How about page number Johnny Poof? You've been busted making things up - on your Burns account for instance .Monty should have been sacked and in fact apologized in writing to IKE for suggesting he did anything but hold 3 bridges and a shoulder More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
    1
  2526. This is all fanboi nonsense in tik's cheering section trying prop up your little Islands place in the big picture. You two are in delusion not agreement Monty couldn't cross a crummy channel for 4 FULL YEARS. The GIs crossed an ocean to carry the fight forward for him. The Germans thru bernard off the continent before big brother arrived. As the Ludendorf so accurately stated - "The Britsh are Lions led by jackasses" ,the main mule being Monty of course
    1
  2527. I'm surprised the British were so desperate to prop up the Fraud Monty - he had 4 yrs to cross a 30 mile channel. The GIs had to cross the Ocean and get it sorted - shameful,really. Deny,lie and alibi
    1
  2528. TIK plagerizes and placates - a gamer fanboi
    1
  2529. little villa Pretty much plastered all over the net - it's called history.The commies were Red but monty was yellow.When youy remove your head from Monty's backside your handler can accompany you to a library
    1
  2530. John Burns bernard has been getting rough in the tub with you again with his Full Monty manuever.Ring the nurses station and report this
    1
  2531. Little villa Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's many plans or it's all laid out by Atkinson - a Pulitzer Proze winner IKE was going to have him removed and monty appologized profusely and said you won't here any more from me.Even admitting he got his sorry ass tossed off the continent and didn't dare come back until the GIs could give him a lift
    1
  2532. Johnny is the Vicar going to visit you there at the home this Holiday Season?You are are going to have to come up with a lot of wonderful new lies, or people just aren't going to want to go on reading .Now pick up your plastic soldiers mums coming visit. She works so hard to pay for your therapy and all
    1
  2533. Johnnie - your new new attempts at slithering about aren't any more successful than your previous ones. Monty got run off the continent at Dunkirk,Got out commanded TOTALY in Sicily sat in Italy and absolutely stuck at CAEN, then didn't show up in Arnhem for his own operation petting his canaries and bunnies back at his caravan as 34,400 troops go into the Netherlands and 17,00 come out and he wasn't around to share that fate. On top of that he lathered up little lads
    1
  2534. And Monty never showed up at all .This from a DUTCH poster - NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come? How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT do the same ? Not in September, not in October and not in November Probably because unlike Montgomery Model was an actual Field Marshall
    1
  2535. Refusal to fly double missions? Your total ignorance or omissions on tactical availability/reality is astounding. There were 700 more flights than June 6th,that were longer flights practically into to Germany not 30 miles across the Channel. Also there was over 2 hrs less daylight to do it in. In your land of make believe you conveniently leave these obstacles out of your slanted/bent carnival barking From ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p46 the shortage of navigators was so acute that only 4 out of 10 C-47 crews used on the D-Day drop included one,usually flying at the head of the serial.The situation didn't improve by September 1944. the key issue was lack of natural illumination, the 1st airlifts into Normandy involved 900 C-47s and gliders . MARKET envisioned doing the same with around 1,600 flights with inexperienced and partially trained air crews in the total darkness of a no moon period would have been suicidal. Williams insistence on a single lift per day and Brereton's acceptance of it may have been less than ideal,but it was the only realistic option in the prevailing circumstances As he states it would have been suicidal.Taking any bridge doesn't mean you can hold it specially with the Ruhr right around the corner and Antwerp not yet opened as IKE and SHAEF had earlier directed.There would be no immediate reinforcemnet or supply with Cherbourg 499 miles away.Montgomery owns this.
    1
  2536. You poor trampled cabbage leaf Portland Bill?That's your source? 🤣 it's 21 miles from Dover to the Pas de Calais,type that in you tosser. And there were 700 more flights than D-Day with over 2 hrs less daylight by Sept 17th.The airfields were well west of London and the flights all the way up to Arhem/Osterbeek.Have your handler instruct you on reading a map. Monty should have over ruled this during his battle assessmnets but he was worse at commanding than villa/you are at commenting. Perhaps he was giving you two The Full Monty
    1
  2537. The Germans were actually there and told Kershaw XXX Corp tanks could have made Arnhem but stopped.Try readin It Never Snows in September instead of claiming too
    1
  2538.  @kaiserjoe2316  good observatiion
    1
  2539. Ha :face-blue-smiling: ya can't trust the Brits either,you know with little things like nuke projects
    1
  2540. Beevor has been knighted and awarded by literary societies all over he's spent months/years digging thru archives stored in Libraries/Universities/Academies/Museums chronicled by combatants themselves, from intelligence,logistical appraisals, official reports, war diaries, unit dispatches ,personal letters, journals,field orders, operational plans,battle logs,transcripts, AARs (after action reports) Officer correspondence & messages, casualty lists, speeches, press releases, just read his acknowledgements,foot notes,bibliographies. His books are replete with those accounts. Just like Buckingham, Hastings,Atkinson and Kershaw's of the Market-Garden battles by those who participated. Much more reliable and accurate than history being constructed 80 yrs after the events by a shabby hamlet of forum fanbois & revisionist rubes
    1
  2541. old wolf - no he isn't just by monty fanbois that refuse to come to terms with the truth. His sources are solid and he has won literary awards in Europe,Canada,USA and Australia. Unlike TIK here that likes a contained audience or you that prefer the echo chamber repeating drivel
    1
  2542. Burnhole you are going to get your fat,bald keyboard kommando ass kicked one day
    1
  2543. You had 4 years - 30 miles,some fine soldiering.
    1
  2544. Patton would have never OK'd such an ignorant plan - even the Dutch Army said it was foolish
    1
  2545. Ya look in the mirror you lying hound 😂
    1
  2546. Lil' villa you and history have but a fleeting acquaintence. British history is a lie agreed upon. You,stevie,lyndon Boy Burny and the other fauntleroy fanbois have proven that. Do share with the congregation how your dear old mum took some gerrys prisoner,sure what else happened - you're a hitler youth that what you're hiding?
    1
  2547. Bullcrap Johnnie,page number and book you plaster your bollocks in italics hoping no one looks it up. The 43 wessex just arrived last week. But hey they showed up unlike Monty, the evidence was Monty again ran advantages into the sand with his unimaginative schemes,a gross underestimation of the enemy and a serious misjudgment of the terrain and unwillingness to show up and direct like an actual Field Marshall - Walter Model.Biggest Air Drop up until that point and the pathetic pratt couldn't be bothered? How about these guys below? Unlike you or Monty they were all there 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 215 Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit:The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked *"the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. 'Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'*It was a lost chance ' Arnhem.Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes: 'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War’ Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords, were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle.There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. *That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed. As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said "Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem" Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.” "He had made an awful mistake. I didn't like him at all." Leo Major, the most decorated Canadian soldier of WWII From the Ottawa Citizen,May 7th ,2005 Mr. Major is even less charitable to Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery, who headed up British and Canadian forces. Field Marshall Montgomery's ill-fated thrust deep into occupied Holland in the fall of 1944, a paratroop attack on river crossings, was an utter failure and undertaken at the expense of a broad steady advance. That delayed the the liberation of the country's biggest cities, Mr. Major figures, and condemned their populace to slow starvation through the infamous "Hunger Winter" that took the lives of 20,000 Dutch civilians. Pte. Major had an opportunity to express his displeasure with Field Marshall Monty soon afterward. It was during the battle for Scheldt, an estuary guarding the Belgian port of Antwerp. The exploit was supposed to win him a field decoration directly from the hands of Field Marshall Montgomery, but Pte. Major couldn't bring himself to accept.
    1
  2548. Outside of your posts being totally full of shit it's not that bad. Read what Alan Brooke said,rather have your handler read it to you - Monty's fault ,the Air Marshall said it,the Admirals said it,other Army officers said it, the Gerries at Arnhem said it - Ask your voices they'll even tell you.
    1
  2549. Burns you troubled polluted rube,did the nurses give you your crayons back after eating them last time.Monty owned up to it and Brooke blamed him also .Maybe you should wipe your lipstick off of his poster
    1
  2550.  @erylevans1185  The British had many good generals but Churchill screwed the pooch by not recalling the Auch or O'Connor,much better commanders than Monty - much
    1
  2551. His personnel papers were published
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  2552. He wouldn't get young men killed,he would have gotten monty removed had he wanted.
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  2553. Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.80 HQ 21 Army Group,14 April 1944 , B.L. Montgomery, CiC ."the whole of aggressive tactics would be to retain the initiative ourselves and to cause alarm in the minds of the enemy. To be successful, such tactics must be adopted on D-Day; to wait till D plus 1 would be to lose the opportunity, and also to lose the initiative
    1
  2554. Lets say the 82nd didn't have the most objectives and the furthest apart.Let's also say the landing zones weren't attacked twice and had to be defended.Let's also say Graebners 9th didn't show up in APCs,Self propelled 20mmAAguns and halftracks also.Lets say IKE never let Monty anywhere around a war room.Let's say they actually listened to Brian Urquhart. One of the piss poor planned operations ever foisted on unsuspecting troops From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 244 I put the responsibility for the operation squarely on the shoulders of Montgomery,who launched it then refused to listen to anyone who wished to modify a bad plan .Finally,he made the incredible statement that the operation was 90% successful.- Brian Urquhart,2003
    1
  2555. Because winter came on you moron and they had to back track to do it.Being a monty nutthugger you should know but don't admit that.And a step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction.ROTFLMAO
    1
  2556. Hollywood didn't faff up market garden quoting the Cornhole Chronicles again
    1
  2557. From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after AlameinI do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily, said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt
    1
  2558.  @johnbrereton5229  war crimes :face-blue-smiling:. Monty was the best general the Gerries had. You could have won in the Desert - the Failed Marshall didn't build the massive advantages the RAF,RN,ULTRA and US men and materiel coming in did that
    1
  2559. He didn't lay the mine field and those were Claude Auchinlecks plan. Winston effed up both O'cconnor after he won then sacked The Auk after he won try reading some. So churchill was stuck covering for God AlMonty. As soon as Patton got on the same stretch of land in Sicily the Monty Myth came tumbling down. Patton took both Messina and Palermo - while Monty - montied,as was expected. O'Connor & Auchinleck were much better commanders than Bernard.
    1
  2560.  @johnbrereton5229  your little troll even admiited "the GIs got it done faster than we did" when you ankle monitor is removed perhaps the librarian can recommend some books on the subject for you. Until then try reading "The Day of Battle" by Pullitzer prize winning Historian Rick Atkinson. Also Highway 124 was in the American operating sector when Monty convinced his buddy Alexander to give it to him . Monty even told Patton to just do what you want,after they took that Highway from his plan he broke ranks and did just what monty did - whatever the eff he wanted.
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  2561. HOLLYWOOD Films? yawning,this makes me sleepy ♦Hollywood wasn't there when 198,000 Tommies got tossed into the Channel - Monty was.​ ♦Hollywood didn't make 81,000 Tommies surrender at Singapore, ♦Hollywood didn't sign a deal with The Reich annexing the Czech Republic - Britain did. ♦Hollywood didn't tell Britain to not cross the 30 mile channel after getting driven into it,for 4 full years after Dunkirk. ♦Hollywood never showed up at Market Garden,neither did Monty ♦Hollywood didn't fill ship after ship with tanks,trucks,,halftracks,men,material,munitions, planes,provisions,food,fuel for the duration of the war to prop up the crown. ♦Hollywood didn't promise that Caen would be taken in D+1,Monty did and finally took it 43 days later. ♦Hollywood didn't promise before Market Garden that they'd go to Berlin and didn't even make it to Arnhem,Monty did ♦Hollywood didn't give 16 U.S.Divisions to Monty's 21st Army Group and was practically the last one to cross over the Rhine with them ♦Monty didn't destroy 90% of German Armor Allied Air Corps did. All sad but expected.Say cross over the Channel and ask the Europeans shouldn't take you 4 Full Years like it did Monty
    1
  2562.  @johnbrereton5229  They were finally forced to surrender after Monty let them go repeatedly.The British Navy,Air Force and ULTRA all made this Possible. The only reason Winston hung on to monty was because he realized his mistake of interferring with the other two (O'Conno & Auchinleck) The Germans had alreay Dunkirked Monty when the odds were even. As bent as you are you could taken those armies and won - MONTY built NONE of it. Monty's so called advance in a desert was emptier than his head. In 1500 miles he let Rommel escape time after time with the bigest advantages of any general in the Desert. Much more than either Auchinleck and O'Connor. Monty's clownish attempts at command would be pointed out the rest of the war .Much worse at commanding than you are commenting - that's quite distressing I'm sure you'd agree *Rommel's War in Africa,W.Heckman,p.312 "Field Marshall Rommel judges the tactics and operations, but not the supply situation to be favorable......fuel stocks at the front line are not adequate for both the German or Italian side" An Army at Dawn,by Rick Atkinson,p418-20 The British attack at el Alamein with more than 1000 tanks cracked the much weaker Axis defenders across a 40 mile front.The sheer weight of British resources made up for all the blunders,one account noted.Montgomery's 8th army hugged the Libyan coast much closer than it hugged the retreating Axis. Air Marshall Conningham said "once Monty had his reputation he would never risk it again" The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 521​ Montgomery was in a position to profit by the bitter experience of his predecessors .While supplies on our side had been cut to a trickle ,American and British ships were bringing vast quantities on materials to North Africa .Many times greater than either his predecessors had ever had. His principle was to fight no battle unless he knew for certain that he would win it. Of course that is a method which will only work given material superiority - but that he had. He was undoubtedly more of a strategist than a tactician. Command of a mobile battle force was not his strong point British officers made the error off planning operations according to what was strategically desirable ,rather than what was tactically attainable."
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  2563. BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis XVIII - In Africa Montgomery was incapable of finishing off Rommel even when his tanks were numbering in single digits and his plans were fully known to British intelligence BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p249-250 on 20 December LT Gen. von Sponeck of the 90th Light Division told his staff "Nobody can see any escape. The British outnumber us enormously. The puzzle is why are they following us so slowly? Time and again they have allowed us to dodge encirclement" The British Generalship under Montgomery remained unequal to the task of finishing them off. BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p251 General von Thoma "the supply problem was the decisive factor-not only because of the difficulties of the Desert but because of the British navy's command of the Mediterranean I said a large German Army as well as the Italians could not be supplied there" BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p.256 Afrika Korp Gen.Johann Cramer said after the war "El Alamein was lost before it was fought,we had not the petrol....*Rommel had known for a long time the campaign in North Africa was hopeless because of the petrol shortage"* I should be charging you for this
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  2564. Patton showed in short order what an over blown windbag he really was - even with his buddy ALEX helping him out and full air cover.The only thing worse than his lies,denying and alibiing is chodes trying to make him into something he never was an Actual Field Marshall. Asswipe wrote like 7 books how he won the war when he couldn't direct mice in a maze so I see your infatuation with him. OConnor/Slim and Auchinleck all much more capable Officers. Churchill covered for the mistake than dare admit he made one Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily said Bayerlein" Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt. The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523 "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces, Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see astonishing achievements in mobile warfare The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education"
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  2565. Irving Burns --you're realizing hallucinations again - Is the mad cow's or monkey pox invading you again?You are making more funny noises than usual - ring the nurses station
    1
  2566. He's pathetic and knows it he hates America/Americans
    1
  2567. Monty never showed up for his own operation.The 82nd had nothing to do with Monty's poor planning and XXX Corps slow progress or the Germans still between Nijmegen and Arnhem.Or the Gerries pouring in from the Ruhr that brought armor the 1st day across the Arnhem Road Bridge.Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger. Plenty went wrong south of Nijmegen down past Eindoven and well south to Valkenswaard and before there even. From Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it ​the English drank too much Tea the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent,if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced
    1
  2568. Stalin wanted to pound Switzerland as they were counting coin as every one but them bled.And they would have.There was no need to take a country that wasn't attacking them.Simple strategy
    1
  2569. Just like Monty who called the press and made sure Churchill was present when he crossed the rhine.And he didn't do that until Patton,Hodges,Bradley and the 291st Engineers had already crossed the IT and were in Germany.They also did it with no fanfare and much fewer casualties - MUCH
    1
  2570. Correct Monty should have been sacked for repeated failure and the inability to attack and conquer a vastly overmatched enemy - repeatedly recoiling from responsibility and using his WW1 sargent tactics
    1
  2571. They were never in the 82nds Operational orders. But when Browning and Gavin got there the Reichswald which is in Germany certainly could have hid a lot of armor. Twice the Wehrmacht came out of the Ardennes and Bradley also found them dug in the Hurtgen Forrest so it was certainly possible.
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  2572. A Bridge too Far was so accurate that Monty didn't appear in it either. Go visit his statue boy burny in Arnhem,oh wait there isn't one
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  2573. Absolutely JJ,Churchill unfortunately fired too many good officers and painted himself into a corner with mongoloid Monty
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  2574. Bullcrap Monty's plan was to play pig with supplies.provisions/materials.OMG was mostly his fault
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  2575. More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2576. Burnhole no after the Rhine crossing that disaster convinced IKE not to let the lech get anymore GIs killed .Taking Simpsons 9th back to Bradley where under good leadership they took the Ruhr Valley. After getting as many colonials and allies killed Monty was going to have to run Tommies thru the shredder
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  2577. The Brits weren't arrogant it was slappies like burns and bernard,let's see shall we 1940 Norway the Burns family of warriors lasted 13 days,then Netherlands,Belgium,France - Dunkirk.A whole 16 days fighting 4 days scrambling up the gang planks. After the GIs arrived you weren't Dunkirked again - imagine that.Tell your twisted tales to Trinidad & Tobago and look up Monty and Lucian Trueb. Read these direct quotes not from your ample backside Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.160 "In private to Herriman. "The PM bluntly stated that he could see no prospect of victory until the United States came into the war." DeGaulle said after Pearl Harbor; "well the war is over. Of course, there are more operations,battles and struggles ahead; but the out come is no longer in doubt. In this industrial war nothing can resist the power of American industry. From now on the British will do nothing with out Roosevelt's agreement." Harold Nicolson wrote "we simply can't be beaten with America in But how strange it is that this great event should be recorded and welcomed here with out any jubilation. Churchill had cabled to Antony Eden who was en route to Moscow - "The ascension of the United States makes amends for all, and with time and patience will give certain victory." Churchill after Pearl Harbor No American will think it wrong of me if I proclaim that to have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. I could not foretell the course of events. I do not pretend to have measured the marshall might of Japan, but now at this very moment I knew the United States was in the war up to the neck and in to the death. So we had won after all!” . The Friendship Between Britain And The USA | Warlords: Churchill vs Roosevelt | Timeline go to 2:30 then listen.*Churchill emphatically stated his plan for winning the war was "I shall drag in the United States.”* That night of December 7, 1941, Churchill wrote in a draft of his memoirs that 'saturated and satiated with emotion and sensation, I went to bed and slept the sleep of the saved and thankful.' There you have it Johnny you can return to your coloring books but please pick up your plastic army soldiers - the nurses there at the home keep slipping on them
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  2578. The Freak Show called and they want you back,Johnny. Lions led by Jack asses indeed as Ludendorf remarked during the last war
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  2579. Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  2580. He's much better than this knuckle dragging novelist TIK trying to rewrite history for the Island Asylum
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  2581. Wrong 6th Army group were in fact the 1st ones over the Sigfeid line. Churchill screamed like a cat in a fan belt when the GIs were going in with the French. It became obvious that the French and GIs could go it it alone and Winston couldn't get over that fact
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  2582.  @sean640307  no,things were going accordiny to schedule remember(not really) but that's the excuse the twisted tarts here use when monty's piss ppoor performance is pointed out. Devers,Patch and the Free French left the 21st army in the dust. Monty was getting waxed in the news. It was evident why the laggard held no sway.Had Monty not ran things into the sand almost immediately perhaps things unfold differntly. The USA/Free French weren't tethering ourselves to a 1st rate 2nd rate schill named bernard. BEF should have called up Morshead or Simmonds. Actually Monty is the price we paid for thinking the bandy adled Winston would make the right military choices. He takes 50,000 troops from O'Connor and still looses Crete/Greece and set backs the desert campaign. Should have left the Auk alone who already figured Rommel out
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  2583.  @sean640307  BTW I'm daft? I agree with about Cunningham and Ritchie. But Bernard continuously let Rommel go. He fired officers like Lumsden,Gatehouse and Briggs that knew how to and suggested cutting off Rommel's line of retreat but bernard wouldn't let them.Hell I've got Horrocks quote stating the same thing anfter he was brought over
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  2584. And watch the BBC Battlefields Docu on Alamein the total dominance of the Desert Air Force shocked the Germans. that's not factoring in ULTRA or the RN total choking off Rommels supply lines. Both The Auk and certainly O'Connor would have won there - with ease. Kudos to the fighting men but Bernard was pedesstrian at best after
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  2585.  @sean640307  sources? by who?when? Investigate,bring evidence if it's not asking too much.Matter of fact why don't we leave this cheering section and try a comment section with some credibility rather than carnival barking. The so called host here deletes information accurate but opposed to the revisionist narritive he's trying to drive home. The Americans by this time had more men coming in had higher casualties because they weren't hunkered down in one place. In deed the broad front was proving deadly as they not Bernard fanned out. The Tommies thought shackled by Monty still gave a good account of themselves My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.617 July 19,1944Monty had a press conference yesterday at which he said that at least 156,000 Germans had been killed or wounded since D-Day. Yet in the big push east & south of Caen only 2,500 prisoners were taken IKE said yesterday that with 7000 tons of bombs dropped(around Caen) in the most elaborate bombing of enemy front line positions ever accomplished,only 7 miles were gained can we afford 1000 tons of bombs per mile?The air people are completely disgusted with the lack of progress. With Prejudice,by Air Marshall Arthur Tedder,p.551-52 Rommel reported on June 12th in Normandy would be rendered exceptionally difficult and partially immpossible by the extraordinary strong and in some respects overwhelmingly superiority of the Allied Air Force and by the effect of the heavy naval artillery....the enemy has complete control over the battle area and up to 60 miles behind the front Almost all transport on roads and in open country is prevented by day by strong fighter bomber and heavy bomber formations. Movements of our troops by day are also almost completely stopped, while the enemy can move freely.....this crippling and destructive operation of the enemy Air Force With Prejudice,by Air Marshall Arthur Tedder,p.557*​​ The situation was that Montgomery thought the air corp not vigorous in support of the immediate battle,while Air Marshall Conningham continued to be shaply critical of the Army's slow progress. *I agreed with Conningham that the Army did not seem prepared to fight it's own battles.After I had talked these matters over with Eisenhower and Bedell-Smith on 6 July, it was agreed that Eisenhower should draft a letter which would tell Montgomery tactfully to get moving With Prejudice,by Air Marshall Arthur Tedder,p.559 The problem was Montgomery who could be neither removed or moved to action. Later that day, Generals Morgan and Gale,Deputy CoS and Senior Administrative officer respectively, spoke to me of their apprehensions about the slow pace of the Army's advance D-Day,The Battle for Normandy by Antony Beevor,p229 Eisenhower was fuming with impatience,yet Monty refused to be hurried and 21st Army HQ provided SHAEF with little information. Montgomery had mentioned to Dempsey on quite a few occasions "there's no need to tell IKE" Montgomery liked to keep objectives vague,often with metaphors, so if there was a breakout he could claim credit for it and if the operation ran into the sand he could say that they had simply been tying down the German forces to help out the Americans. IT was not of course Montgomery who determined this state of affairs but the Germans who sent their Panzer Divisions My Three Years with EisenHower,By Harry C.Butcher,p.632 - August 4,1944 "At the SHAEF forward War Room last evening,I learned that the Allies had captured some 78,000 Germans,of which the British captured 14,000.The remainder falling into American hands.This information was reported on August 1st.Since which we have captured 4,000 a day" With Prejudice,by Air Marshall Arthur Tedder,p.562-63 Our 3 Armored Divisions, the 11th,7th, and Guards , had been counter attacked from several directions and the advance came to a halt.On 20 July . I spoke to Portal about the Army's failure. We were in agreement regarding Montgomery as the cause. Montgomery had in effect stopped his armour from going farther.Later I reported saying that the British Chiefs of Staff would "support any recommendation that Ike might care to make in respect to Monty for not succeeding in going places with his big three-armoured division push" Air Marshall Tedder thru ULTRA had been reading the reports,it appears the massive bombings and Naval Shellings must have taken place as as IKE's personal aide Butcher,Rommel and Tedder all apparently agree. Tedder goes on to agree with Conningham also. So tell me where was he banging away here, taken right from HQ,Monty's a proven liar. Probably why you won't re-visist Desert Generals. Where 3 of the 4 Historians point out his inflating his roll and ghastly diregarding others contributions. Everyone,EVERYONE in SHAEF heard Monty's directives to take CAEN on D-Day. To take on D+ One is too late.
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  2586. Tedder is not the one with credibility issues - Montgomery is, all of these men there and in real time are full of it,bang on revisionist With Prejudice, Air Marshall Tedder,p.586 Eisenhower's firm commitment to the Anglo-American Alliance dominated his thinking. He handled Allied disagreements in Normandy, at the Falaise Gap and for Market-Garden the same way. Eisenhower was determined to protect the facade of Allied unity at the highest levels of the Allied command in spite of Montgomery's insubordination which was motivated by both personal and political objectives. Eisenhower's efforts to cover up Montgomery's lies​ in Normandy drew praise from his British second in command, Lord Tedder: "One of the most disturbing features of the campaign ... had been the uninhibited boosting at home (England) of the British Army at the expense of the Americans. I ... fear that this process was sowing the seeds of a grave split between the Allies. For the moment, the Americans were being extremely reticent and generous, largely on account of Eisenhower's fine attitude." A General's Life,by Omar Bradley and Clay Blair,p.275 Monty launched Goodwood on July 18,It was preceded by a massive air attack.Some 1,700 heavy bombers and plus 400 medium bombers dropped nearly 8,000 tons of bombs on the German front. On the afternoon of July 20 when the rains turned the battleground into a sea of mud,Monty, declaring himself well pleased with the results of Goodwood,abruptly halted it. It had gained six miles south of the city. The cost had been appalling:4,000 casualties and 500 tanks - over 1/3 of all the tanks in Monty's command​. Monty oversold Goodwood and his preliminary "ballyhoo" was too exultant and a disastrous miscalculation had raised expectations to an almost giddy level and then dashed them.IKE,Bedell-Smith, Tedder and the whole of SHAEF was furious with Monty Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.171 Not surprisingly nowhere in Dempsey's diary or notes for this period is there any mention what so ever of a British strategy of attracting and pinning down Rommel's reserves Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.247 SHAEF and COSSAC Planning Officer, Brigadier Kenneth G. McLean is quoted as calling Monty a "big cheat" in his claims: "for Montgomery to say that he was holding the Germans so Bradley could break out was absolute rubbish and a complete fabrication that only developed after he was stopped outside of Caen" *https://warfarehistorynetwork.com Montgomery began his disinformation campaign by claiming that it was not important either to take Caen or to gain any more ground in the Caen sector* Other British officers who had served with Montgomery during the war were not convinced of his claim that attracting the German armor to Caen had always been part of his plan. Montgomery’s chief of staff, Maj. Gen. Francis De Guingand wrote, “We had, as I have already said, hoped to take Caen and get out into the open country beyond in the first few days and in that event we should have been able to make the fullest use of our tanks.”​ P.J. Grigg worked at the War Office in London but made frequent trips to France and was thoroughly familiar with Montgomery’s plans. After the war he wrote, “Of course his [Montgomery’s] original idea was to break out of the bocage country around Caen into the open in the first few days after landing—it would be idle to deny that*. The problem was that Montgomery never admitted to anyone that he had changed his plans. *Grigg remarked that Montgomery “tried to make himself look bigger by saying he planned it all beforehand. He didn’t.”
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  2587.  @sean640307  BTW - 4x now - tells you what a revisionist hack he really is. Monty's words in real time and they go missing
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  2588.  @timbungarner3842  well put
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  2589. Boy Burny like you Monty was never there,sad I'm sure you'd agree
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  2590. Monty? Puhleeeze,What he won he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials,ULTRA and air support. And then barely.......and poorly. He was a propped up fraud and rode everyone else's accumulative hard work to a headline.Until the truth unraveled and it was obvious his command abilities were greatly exaggerated as IKE later figured out​ This is why he was so loathed amongst other British Commanders.The navies & air corps completely strangled the Afrika Corp even Monty couldn't cock it up .The British Press needed a Hero and Monty reveled in the roll,pissing off the others who had done so much for the War effort.He loved grabbing the Glory at least twice later he almost got sacked.And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have. Claude Auchinleck and Dorman Smith had just won the 1st battle of El Alamein concluded on July 30th. Auchilech/Dorman-Smith were relieved and General Gott was installed but unfortunately his plane got shot down killing him. Everything and I mean everything was already in place to win. Churchill wrongly removed The Auk because he insisted(rightfully) they needed 6 weeks to refit and resupply. So what does Monty do - took 10 weeks to advance - much more time than Auchileck and Dorman Smith insisted on and got fired for by Churchill. Almost any Commander was walking into assured victory.The British finally got their victory over a German Army and Monty was made a Hero when in truth it was a British /Allied victory. In the desert Air Marshall Conningham and Adml Cunningham strangled the German supply lines while keeping the Allies supplied was paramount.Yet the yapping little jackel Monty didn't grab airfields or open any ports - this continued into Italy- Normandy. Montgomery really should have never gotten that gig - he really could not lose after Auchilech and Dorman-Smith lined the massive mine fields on the Ridge of Alam Halfa( that Bernard later attempted to take credit for)also shored up defense line by the Qattara Depression to the south which was impassable to mechanized armor at El Alamein creating a choke point.And they also had 2 fresh divisions moved over from the Nile Delta. Then The Torch Landings forces included 60,000 troops in Morocco, 15,000 in Tunisia, and 50,000 in Algeria, Forced Rommel's hand as now there would be more enemy troops to deal with.And of course ULTRA was now fully operation and provided updates. By August '42 USA had sent the 300 Shemans and over 100 self propelled 105 mm Howitzers sent by Order of FDR.The 8th Army had an 5:1advantage of tanks over the AK.And with the landings 3:1 in manpower.​ The Afrika Korp was short on everything and their armor and vehicles had been in the desert for over 2 yrs. The allied supply port of Alexandria was 100 miles away,The Axis supply port was 1,000 miles away in Tripoli.Also factor in complete Air Superiority - Rommel had to move at dark to keep his columns from being strafed and obliterated. So even you can clearly see reality exists All these things came together at the same time and Monty couldn't help himself - taking credit that wasn't his and deflecting blame that was - all thru the war. In 1500 miles with overwhelming advantages Monty never captured Rommel.Hell even you could have won there Monty left a vastly numerical inferior forces in front of him get away None of those benefits were enjoyed by Auchinleck and Dorman-Smith. Save the Air Superiority. All of it in place and none of it Bernard's doing long before he sashayed into this mirage. Page 33, Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen
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  2591.  @robertmoneypenny6028  Truth, EVERYTHING was already in place to win in the desert. Churchill wrongly removed General Auchinleck who argued that his men had not regrouped and needed reinforcing. Several military analysts accused Churchill of misunderstanding desert warfare tactics, saying he placed too much emphasis on territorial occupation Auchileck/Dorman-Smith needed 6 weeks to refit,reinforce and resupply. Made perfect sense sand in all of the equipment and working parts. So what does Monty do - took 10 weeks(Aug-13-Oct 23) to advance​ - much more time than Auchileck and Dorman Smith insisted on and got fired for in the 1st place. 🔶The Torch Landings - forces included 60,000 troops in Morocco, 15,000 in Tunisia, and 50,000 in Algeria. Claude Auchinleck called over two fresh divisions from the Nile Delta after winning 1st alamein.Both of these troop deployments forced Rommel's hand as now there would be more enemy troops to deal with. And he wasn't getting either reinforced or resupplied 🔶Monty didn't defeat Rommel in Africa. The British Navy did by starving Rommel of resources. 🔶Monty didn't build up the arms/men/tanks/materiel - the allies did -Dorman-Smith had engineers and infantry plant the massive mine field on the Alam Halfa ridge , that Bernard attempted to take credit for. 🔶ULTRA became fully operational in August 1942 after the Germans had changed some wheels/gears on Enigma 🔶The RAF and Royal Navy completely strangled the Afrika Korps supply lines. Sweeping the skies and seas in/over the Mediterranean 🔶Montgomery had 1500 miles and every concievable advantage - BIG ADVANTAGES in men/materiel/air cover/intelligence/tanks/artillery and still Montgomery never captured Rommel 🔶Mongomery never opened ports or captured Air Strips for them in return this would continue into Sicily and Normandy where Monty's deficiencies would be exposed - Rommel in his memoirs credited complete Air superiority by Conningham's RAF that they could hardly sleep in the heat and battle of the day and could only move at nite 🔶 Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts p.282-83 On 12 September 1942 Churchill had cause to thank Roosevelt telling him the 317 Sherman tanks and 94 self propelled 105 mm guns "which you kindly gave me on that dark Tobruk day in Washington" and arrived safetly in Egypt and been received with the greatest enthusiasm.....as these tanks were taken from the hands of the American Army Montgomery had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with any of the above actions. He reaped the benefits of them and others who came before. The the brandy soaked Winston fired the wrong guy The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 521 Montgomery was in a position to profit by the bitter experience of his predecessors .While supplies on our side had been cut to a trickle ,American and British ships were bringing vast quantities on materials to North Africa .Many times greater than either his predecessors had ever had. His principle was to fight no battle unless he knew for certain that he would win it .Of course that is a method which will only work given material superiority - but that he had. He was undoubtedly more of a strategist than a tactician. Command of a mobile battle force was not his strong point British officers made the error off planning operations according to what was strategically desirable ,rather than what was tactically attainable."
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  2592. Monty faffed the ignorant single thrust concept at market garden - as was expected
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  2593. The RAF and Monty never coordinated shit but to verteran British observers this was nothing new - like Burnhole here
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  2594. the RAF already swept the skies clear of it's opponent unlike the old woman on the ground
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  2595. Put the pint down weeb are you Lucian?
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  2596.  @johnburns4017  jump in the channel Bernard will see you for your FULL MONTY.Don't even have to make that shit up. Go across the Channel and ask the Dutch,Poles and French. Shouldn't take you 4 yrs like it did Monty they were taking bullets whilst Bernard and Brooke were taking to the boats. He was pretty much splashing around when the US transports were pulling in
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  2597. Montgomery was the biggest waste of resources only crossed the channel after the Russians/USA got involved. Time after time stunted results and a PM willing to lose men to prop him up.Should have left Auchinleck and O'Connor alone
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  2598.  @cleanerben9636  HA! makes a point rather nicely
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  2599. Lyndon When the smoke cleared there were two world powers left standing and neither you or monty belonged with them you're welcome you cheeky chode.The Russians on the east were fighting the same vicious battles also cupcake.That's why it's called a war. The GIs kept grinding and not going backward like Monty to Antwerp - screwing the Canadians over and leaving them to mop up the mess. IKE gave monty his chance and like you he didn't show up. But where you come from evidently they call you a Field Marshall,ya right :face-blue-smiling: IKE even gave the all supplies and stopped 2 US Army groups to do so and like CAEN and Falaise he failed yet again. You are not doing any better as Lyndon than you did as John Cornell The Lorraine campaign lasted from 1 Sep to Dec,not just 9 days in the Netherlands, 6,657 were killed over 3 months and they took 75,000 German PoWs, compared with 17,000 casualties at Market Garden in just 9 days (which was more than the invasion of Normandy) including nearly 2,000 Brits and Poles killed before taking the American killed into account. Market Garden had nearly 3 times the casualties per day. Op Queen and the Hurtgen Forest battles (of which Queen was part) were costly failures, also, but the same argument applies - the period was far longer and the average losses less together with much higher Axis casualties and PoWs and they do not turn Market Garden into a success. Market Garden was a failure. Look at a map I don't think you get it - where the hell do think they were going to punch thru?THEY HAD TO FIGHT THRU - that is why it's called a war.Stalin himself pointed this out to Churchill at Tehran and accused the British of stalling - look that up Patton wasn't going to leave 90,000 Landsers behind him at Metz that fell to 3rd Army. You are simply a fanboy continually ignoring military logic. Unlike Monty in the Netherlands who took 6 more months to cross the Rhine. Where he had to go back and open up the port of Antwerp on November 28th There was simply no bypassing of Lorraine. It had to be conquered, cleared, and the German divisions defeated or pushed back. Metz was considered one of the most formidable citadels in the world with it's 43 reinforced ferro concrete artillery equipped bunkers that were mined in the front by Gen Herman Balck. The Germans had flooded the Moselle and the Seille rivers and they still took it
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  2600. Ya and Monty ignored not only logistics but intel - but do give a listen to monty not only admitting it but Brooke/Ramsey/Tedder blaming him also (all British BTW) ULTRA intercepts DEFE 3/221, XL 9247, XL 9466, (8 September 1944) ULTRA intercepts from both the Public Records Office, London and Hartenstein Museum. On 6 September orders were issued from the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (German Armed Forces High Command), subordinating the First Parachute Army, previously a training unit, to Army Group B, under the command of General Walter Model. The First Parachute Army, under General Kurt Student, was assigned to defend along the Albert Canal between Brussels and Maastricht. Further the message outlined the revised order of battle, identifying the 3rd, 5th, and 6th Parachute Divisions; LXXXVIII Corps with 719th and 344th Infantry Divisions; battle groups from the Netherlands formed from SS training units and Herman Goring Training Regiment. Supporting would be ten anti-aircraft batteries, equipped with the 88mm multi-purpose gun, deadly when utilized in an anti-tank role. Arnhem: A Tragedy of Errors Hardcover by Peter Harclerode '21st Army Group was one of the formations that received ULTRA intelligence. The Chief of Intelligence, Brigadier Bill Williams, was sufficiently concerned about the presence of 2nd SS Panzer Corps, and more particularly that of 9th SS Panzer Division north of Arnhem, that he drew it to the attention of Montgomery on 10 September, after the latter's meetings with Dempsey and Eisenhower on that day. He failed, however, to persuade Montgomery to alter his plans for the airborne landings at Arnhem. Undaunted, Williams tried again two days later with the support of Brigadier General Staff (Operations) in Montgomery's headquarters, who was standing in as Chief of Staff in the absence of Major General Francis de Guingand who was on sick leave. Unfortunately, their warnings fell on deaf ears. Three days later a further attempt was made to warn Montgomery. Eisenhower's Chief of Staff', Major General Walter Bedell Smith, received a report from SHAEF's Chief of Intelligence, Major General Kenneth Strong, concerning the presence of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions in the area to the north and east of Arnhem. Bedell Smith immediately brought this information to the attention of Eisenhower and advised him that a second airborne division should be dropped in the Arnhem area. Eisenhower gave the matter urgent consideration but was wary of ordering any changes to the operational plan at the risk of incurring Montgomery's wrath. He decided that any alteration could only be decided upon by Montgomery himself and accordingly sent Bedell Smith and Strong to HQ 21st Army Group at Brussels. At his meeting alone with Montgomery, Bedell Smith voiced his fears about the presence of German armor in the Arnhem area, but was waved aside; indeed, Montgomery belittled the information and dismissed the idea of any alteration to his plan.' So Montgomery ignored: Chief of Intelligence, Brigadier Bill Williams Eisenhower's Chief of Staff', Major General Walter Bedell Smith SHAEF's Chief of Intelligence, Major General Kenneth Strong Williams & Strong being British Officers
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  2601. Alan Brooke??? "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow." Monty after the war admitting it The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, p.303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "And here I must admit a bad mistake on my part –I underestimated the difficulties of opening up the approaches to Antwerp so that we could get free use of the port." (Montgomery’s memoirs, p297)​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here, Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth. How about Air Marshall Tedder??? With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal
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  2602.  @thevillaaston358  Yup Johnny has had his ankle monitor removed and is misbehaving again.Won't be long and he'll be back in the home
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  2603. Um no - Monty owns it
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  2604. Viilage Ass cheer on fire bombing the Irish anymore or piss on the Honor of dead GI's?You get worked by real students of history then run to another thread.Again Prat look him up but he might give you the same treatment he gave Cornhole
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  2605.  @thevillaaston7811  you're a pratt I told twice at least thicko,have the other name on your account cornhole who got beat like a dusty rug tell you or get a dementia scan or just STFU
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  2606. Puddles good to see you got out of the channel. I'd have no punching bags but asshole VA. So VA what happened to the bounty you put out on proving my sources wrong? I mean with all of your help here just look. A coincidence I'm sure Barrie Rodliffe       joined  26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre     joined  28 Sept 2013 John Peate            joined  28 Sept 2013 John Burns            joined  07 Nov  2013 TheVilla Aston      joined  20 Nov  2013
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  2607.  @akgeronimo501  yes Oddball SOK was a poster from the Netherlands and he made many valid points on one of these boards.as he studied the battle in his neighborhood.Graebners SS units showed up in APCs and halftracks with mounted MG-42's.Also had self propelled 20mm AA guns.Pretty well chopped up and repelled anything from a para.I think the 82nd Arty dropped on the 3rd day
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  2608.  @akgeronimo501  Damn J.C.H.(jesus Christ Himself )Lee probably tried to rotate the stock and maybe thru in some sling shots and boomerangs
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  2609.  @akgeronimo501  Absolutely,without Antwerp it was a fool's errand,Even with it was a longshot because of the idiocy of one elevated road
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  2610.  @akgeronimo501  Last colonial - usually the Aussies
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  2611. At least the Aristocracy and Crown Cronnies - the commoners and Tommies deserved better - Lions lead by Jack asses - Ludendorf
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  2612.  @akgeronimo501  There were many difficulties waging war on the Wehrmacht for sure.And many of those times the Gerries had better equipment and tactics.The crown's corporals though certainly had no right to be lecturing anyone on failure.I've always thought alot of the capabilities of Slim,O'Connor,The Auch (who certainly got screwed) and S.African Smuts.Even Dempsey knew the problems with some of Monty's mis adventures.Probably would have done Horrocks wonders to get away from the surly snot Monty.Most of the Crown's problems rose from the Monty's appointment that in any other army would have been dismissed.Notice the British Navy and Air Corp for the most part held up their end.Capable commanders that were not hamstrung only when coordinating things with 21st Army group
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  2613. Even Lord .......there is your aristocrasy's problem right there.Lord this and Lord that....they even made Scarrington one.Brilliant idea,said no one ever
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  2614. He'd beat you like a dusty rug .You know when you step up in competition you can't get away with your henpeck and heresay as is espoused in this hive of hallucination
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  2615. A monty debacle that simple minded ankle biters like Little Villa take shots at much better men than his family tree 75 yrs after pulling their chestnuts out of the fire again
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  2616. according to the one British officer Major Hibbert of 1st para starting here https://youtu.be/50ogHjrQFBE?t=2282 in this video they had disabled the charges on the Bridge. So if accurate and I believe he would know Horrocks tankers sitting back on the Nijmegen Bridge could have made it.But they didn't move even though elements of the 82nd wanted to carry the fight forward.It's interesting....and unfortunate
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  2617. The GIs made it thru Lorraine,Ardennes,the Hurtgen and across the Rhine before Monty ever set foot in Germany after his foot dragging walk abouts.After the Crowns masterpieces at Market Garden,Dunkirk,Singapore Winnie claimed he couldn't keep pace with these debacles.That's why the emerging Super Power basically finished the heavy lifting themselves
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  2618.  @davemac1197  more Bullshit they had 88s around Eindoven,Veghel and at Hunnar Park by the Nijmegen Bridge. Monty NEVER led another joint effort after that
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  2619. 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw, p.194 both the 82nd Airborne and British Guards Armored were aware they were up against seasoned SS troops of about 500 that held the road held the road bridge.They were supported by an 88 mm gun on the traffic circle and 4 - 47 mm and a 37 mm with mortars in the Hunner Park. SS Capt.Schwappacher was supproting battle groups "when ever the enemy was ready to advance onto the bridge we hit them with the full impact of an artillary barrage which immediately halted the attacks where upon out infantry,reinforced were ble to to maintain their positions 'It Never Snows in September' by Robert J.Kershaw,map reference pages 192-193. The German Defense of Nijmegan 17-20 September 1944.The Kampfgruppe Henke initially established a line of defense outposts based on the two traffic circles south of the railway and road bridges on 17 September.The 10SS Kampfgruppe Reinhold arrived and established the triangular defense with Euling on the road bridge,Henke and other units defending the approaches of the railway bridge,and his own Kampfgruppe on the home bank in the village of Lent.A surprise assault river crossing by the U.S. 3/504 combined with a tank assault on the road bridge on 20 September unhinged the defense. *The Waal had been secured by 1900.There was nothing further barring the road to Arnhem 17 kilometers to the North. 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p. 215 Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit:The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent. If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." Ah good old Carrington sitting on his arse as Jerry himself said there were no guns down the road to stop them. The 82 and the Irish Guards agree also. But hey Carrington at least showed unlike a certain failed marshall
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  2620.  @forrestsory1893  Britain had good Generals monty was never one of them
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  2621.  @forrestsory1893  TIK is deleting posts again - the ones that call out his bent narrative . There are much better boards to get accurate content this guy is a fraud
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  2622. You mean Johnny's alias accounts? they were screaming like cat caught in a fan belt More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2623. you obviously took the bait
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  2624. More like Monty and Ike,Antwerp should have been open 1st
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  2625. More bullshit from the home From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944 --Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  2626. Burns why then was all of HQ chomping at the bit for Monty''s head. How come he never showed up at the after battle council - because he talked shit to every one there and the petulant pratt knew he was going to get pasted. Like you in the comment sections
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  2627. His biggest biographer Nigel Hamilton wrote the FULL MONTY - ignorance is not an argument
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  2628. No recap Monty faffed it up and you are another John Burns burner accounts.Couldn't cross his own channel in FOUR FULL YEARS - ya Field Marshall :body-green-covering-eyes: :face-blue-smiling:
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  2629.  @nickdanger3802  god forbid don't tell the truth the waif has her mind maid 😎 up
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  2630. Monty should have been shot and IKE reassigned for caving into the clown and this abortion of his ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p145 the Irish Guards were an hour and 11 miles behind when it's tanks rolled into Valkenswaard main square on the night of the 17th, and Horrocks no movement after dark extended this shorfall to 12 hours at a stroke. It remained to be seen if Guards Armored Division would prove capable of moving the following day with sufficient dispatch to make up at least some of the lost time(they were 7 miles from where they started) ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p309 at the North end of the Bridge Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Amored Division to push on immediately for Arnhem just 10 miles up the road.Their elation turned toward anger as the growing British force remained immobile. LT Patrick Murphy from 3rd Battalion,504th Regiment climbed aboard Sg Robinson's tank and urged him to move only to be informed by the willing Robinson that he had no orders to do so.Capt.Burris was reportedly so furious he threatened the deputy commander of no.1 Squadron Capt.Peter (Lord) Carrington with his Thompson gun,Carrington dropped inside the tank and locked the hatch. Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp.*General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry* his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." Gavin did not have an answer for him The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate.Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points.And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September.Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial .The Grenedier Guards and the 2nd Battalion 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment were shortly to pay a high price for Brownings operational ineptitude Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night As Heinz Harmel later put it "the English stopped for tea" ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured .LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright, "we had come all the way from Normandy,taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge.Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair" ARNHEM,by William Buckingham,p,489​-490 The primary reason MARKET GARDEN didn't meet it's stated aim was the Failure of XXX Corps to reach Arnhem on schedule or indeed at all. To a degree this is due to events out of the forces control specifically the Germans destruction of the bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal at Son on 17 September and their stuborn defense of the South End of the Nijmegen Road bridge The Guards Armored Division did not start off until 14:35 on Sunday 17 September after the Market force had been delivered and therefore squandered 8 hrs of of precious daylight and they had banned movement during the hours of Darkness.This despite the fact they were suppose to cover the 15 miles or so to the 101st at Eindhoven by nightfall on the 17th which ocurred around 1900(7 PM). The Guards Armored did not reach Eindhoven until18:30 on 18 September despite minimal German opposition. Already behind schedule that was to see them 40 miles further to Nijmegen or onto the approach to Arnhem - and the additional time needed to erect a bailey bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal extended the schedule deficit to 36 hrs. The same lack of urgency was on display when the Grenadier Guards on the evening of 20 September with the North end of the Nijmegen Bridge still in British hands and the 10 miles virtually undefended(to Arnhem).The repeated failure of the Guards Armored Division to press on after crossing the River Waal marks the point where the operation failed Illness could explain Horrocks contradictions in his Garden orders and intentions.Responsibility does not lie soley with him but with his superiors​ and the patronage the British Army used to allot Senior command positions
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  2631.  @jbjones1957  if you keep sourcing that much history you'll run monty's mongels off. While the hurtgen wasn't good it actually drew forces and wittled down many of the troops needed/headed for their Ardennes offensive. They had to try look at a map. With the reds approaching in the east something had to be done and it damn sure wouldn't come from monty
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  2632.  @jbjones1957  truth I'd leave more but TIK deletes them,ya know outing the crown but the slappies get their say
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  2633.  @jbjones1957  Ha that's a nicer version of what i left.I have respect for their fighting forces many very accomplished but the poof berard wasn't one of them.Both Officers in the desert before him(Auchinleck & O'connor) won with literally none of the benefits that bent freak received from the allies buildup. Unfortunately the brandy adled Winston for getting his Gallipoli debacle some how thought he was Caesar again and interferred with both causing many problems that he of course ended up blaming them. Then after he brought in Monty he began to realize it wasn't a good move but he couldn't fire another and somehow the pedo bernard got a vicory courtesy of RN,RAF Bletchley Park,Torch landings,massive mine field at Alam Halfa.Food/fuel,tanks and artillary Courtesy of FDR/Marshall. He had 6 months to plan Caen and ran it into the sand immediately then lies and states it was his plan all along then faffs around june/july/into falaise lays an egg there then asks for and gets monty garden and doesn't show up until it's too late - he knew early on he shyt the bed but did not want to show up and display the obvious.
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  2634. John peate you polluted rube try your john burns account.Monty was dithering probably giving some one the FULL MONTY - perhaps one of your relatives. So Patton took both Palermo and Messina as expected
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  2635. No wonder your neighbor named his dog Monty - he left a bunch of steaming piles everywhere he went also
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  2636. You have you head so far up his backside you can tell us what he had for lunch.He was a propped up fraud and scarcely a senior allied officer didn't know it. What he won, he won with overwhelming superiority in men, materials, ULTRA and air support. And then barely.. and poorly. Montgomery had never taken a hurried step in his life. He was slow in North Africa. He was slow at Sicily in Italy at Caen,Falaise,Antwerp and Arnhem . He planned OMG while ignoring to open up the Port of Antwerp,then disappeared when the pathetic plan unraveled Correlli Barnett author of DESERT GENERALS a rock solid compilation said this about the so called Field Marshall "He was the original Desert Sloth who at best didn’t understand mobile desert warfare and at the worst was a braggart, a liar, and maybe slightly autistic with his habit of repeating everything he said twice! Everything he said twice!" .Montgomery is clearly labeled as a vainglorious liar of limited military capabilities, but with a keen eye for public relations. -- One would say Montgomery appeared helpless @ Arnhem - but the sad fact is he never appeared at all.
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  2637.  @BobSmith-dk8nw  the Village Ass is a poor misguided skragg who keeps refuting himself with the stupidity of his own statements. None of the objectives were met  -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success
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  2638. Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp, the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: "Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. we might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine" Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure?p. 201-02. General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks, who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Sir Francis De Guingand, From Brass Hat to Bowler Hat, p. 16 - Unfortunately I cannot say that I did support Operation MARKET-GARDEN, Montgomery's supposed master stroke; but as I was in the hospital in Aldershot I was powerless to dissuade him. I attempted to, on the telephone; for there were too many ifs in the plan and Prince Bernard was warning, from his intelligence network in Holland, that German armoured units were stationed there.' Liddell-Hart, History Second World War, p. 594. Liddell-Hart, although understanding Montgomery's reasoning, believed that the last true hope to end the war in 1944 dissolved with the halting of Patton's tanks on 23 August 1944.
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  2639. What's your point little Vila besides the one on your head. Dempsey? the same guy that said "not trying was a big problem in 21st Army" .You plaster babble was Wilmont with Monty when driven from the continent? The 43 days at Caen that was D+1 objective.Falaise where Monty faffed around not wanting to get embarrased by Patton closing the Gap,as Bernard's star was fading fast ever since the Desert where he couldn't lose.If you'r going to print a lot at least say something with.This from those there and in the know that would not include you or Wilmont Alan Brooke's own words and Monty admitting it from his memoirs.Rick Atkinson a Pullitzer Prize Winner even chimes in,where as we know you just pull it "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely...." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp.He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory,Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery - based strictly on military accomplishments,the case for him was very weak Fancy some more?
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  2640. Villa why do try blaming America for monty's many misadventures? Are you getting the Full Monty in the tub- AGAIN?
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  2641. Three distinguished British officers who fought in Holland that winter and later became army commanders believed that the Allied cause could have profited immeasurably from giving a more important role to Patton. - Lieutenant Edwin Bramall said: “I wonder if it would have taken so long if Patton or Rommel had been commanding.” - Captain David Fraser believed that the northern axis of advance was always hopeless, because the terrain made progress so difficult. He suggests: “We might have won in 1944 if Eisenhower had reinforced Patton. Patton was a real doer. There were bigger hills further south, but fewer rivers.” - Brigadier Michael Carver argued that Montgomery’s single thrust could never have worked: “Patton’s army should have been leading the U.S. 12th Army Group.” Such speculations can never be tested, but it seems noteworthy that two British officers who later became field-marshals and another who became a senior general believed afterwards that the American front against Germany in the winter of 1944 offered far greater possibilities than that of the British in Holland for which Montgomery continued to cherish such hopes. all clear now little villa?
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  2642. he was worse at commanding than you revisionist rubes are at commenting. An uppity little nothing that had the RED Army and GIs on the same side
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  2643. Logic and John Burns has never been used in the same sentence - EVER
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  2644. Nigel Hamilton is a disgrace a Monty Nutthugger that was run out on a rail in British Historical circles.Moved to the states where nobody gives a fook who he is
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  2645. You pathetic rube's cornholeEveryone in britain knew Monty blew his chance and theory up in Market garden he wasn't even there and didn't attend the after battle council were IKE,Brooke and especially Ramsey and Tedder were going to plaster his sorry ass .Cornhole 501 Geronimo is right you are the biggest baffoon on these boards.Brooke himself blamed the rtancid little runt.And keep deflecting.If it wasn't for the GIs you two rubes would be doing the Beer Barrel Polka
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  2646. Johnny Giovanni get help you bullshit as you are a non factor.Thank Gan mum for us for letting us finish the scrum from merry ole England
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  2647. Like you Monty dabbled in delusion
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  2648. Cornhole where were they going to poke thru - everything- EVERYTHING was already given to Monty for his pathetic single thrust theory - just a joke to get him the men and supplies.The Gis soldiered on with out any help from the Crown.You dick heads can't say the same - oh but you'll try
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  2649. Gavin never said anything about 1,000 tanks you Monty hack.It's not in pre battle plans or operational orders or post battle reports go ahead.You and your Cornhole chronicles keep repeating bilge until you believe it - if it gets Montgomery off the hook
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  2650. Use the address bar in front of you to relieve me of furthering your education.The 1,000 tanks,it's not in pre battle plans,operational orders - do your own leg work.Neilands and Poulussen posted alot of bullshit and were th 1st to bring up the 1000 tank remark.ULTRA did intercept radio traffic from the the 9th and 10 Panzers.John Frost himself said had he known he,d be fighting armor he would have left the mortars and brought AT guns.The germans were ferrying tanks across rivers/canals and bringing them in by rail form the near by ruhr.I'll take Frost words as he was there and Cornell is a Monty nutthugger.. APC's,Self proppelled 20 mm AA Guns and half tracks with mounted mg-42s attacked the 82 on their 1st advance on the Nijmegan bridge
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  2651. OH here you go some one else dug this up as you can see 50 tanks are not 1000 http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p4013coll8/id/390 "It is reported that one of the broken Panzer divisions has been sent back to the area, north of ARNVEIM to rest and refit; this might produce some 50 tanks, We may, therefore reckon that the forces from ROTTERDAM to the German frontier might comprise a regt from 719 Div, a regt from 347 Div,. remnants of 70 Div, a few mobile bns some scraped up static trs and one panzer division, much the worse for wear". "There seems little doubt that our operational area will contain a fair quota of Germans and an estimate of a divisional strength in this area may not far wide off the mark"
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  2652. The address bar on your computer at the top of the page where you can type in information - sheesh
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  2653. I get tired of repeating myself when i've left links like this From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the 2 SS Panzer Corps were refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here,Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth.And I'm not discussing anything on TIK boards anymore his national prejudice bleeds thru with his inaccuracies.
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  2654. The 1000 tank rumor was just that - it was never in Gavin's or the 82nds pre battle plans/Field orders - you know what is used to make/create your plan of attack.If they knew or thought there were even half that many tanks - it would have been mentioned
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  2655.  @L24-h8i  it changes everything monty was a disaster.I suppose you are going to tell me he didn't get his sorry ass run off the continent and for 4 full yrs didn't come back across the channel until the GIs did .Britain had good soldiers he wasn't one of them
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  2656.  @L24-h8i  the only rumor was that Montgomery was some kind of Field Marshall.He really faffed most his operations since the desert where he couldn't really loose
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  2657.  @L24-h8i  you really are ignorant on military operations if you don't hold your supply zones - you hold nothing.Why do think Monty got blasted after this disaster from SHAEF - even other British officers knew he shit the bed.Had the port of Antwerp been open like IKE & SHAEF had 1st directed there would be plenty of supplies - makes perfect sense.The Allies couldn't keep lugging supplies all the way fron CHerbourg for a pathetic WW1 officer
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  2658.  @L24-h8i  1st of all the division was scattered on the drop zones by the bridge,in the town,even by the Reichswald.The 82nd had the most objectives and the farthest apart.That was no myth Ludendorf described the Tommies that way in WW1
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  2659. From With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Cassel & Co., 1st edition, copyright 1966. ---Page 599 " Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal." From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959 From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: *--Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." From Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10thPanzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" From Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him -
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  2660. Whistlebritches a person of your status among the ignorant could not teach him a thing - he was edicated at Oxford and Under Secretary General of the UN.And the Chicken shit Monty didn't even show up at his own operation
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  2661. LMAO - he ended up in a Channel and couldn't take Caen until over 7 weeks with the heaviest naval & aerial bombardment of the campaign From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From With Prejudice, Air Marshall Tedder,p.586 Eisenhower's firm commitment to the Anglo-American Alliance dominated his thinking. He handled Allied disagreements in Normandy, at the Falaise Gap and for Market-Garden the same way. Eisenhower was determined to protect the facade of Allied unity at the highest levels of the Allied command in spite of Montgomery's insubordination which was motivated by both personal and political objectives. Eisenhower's efforts to cover up Montgomery's lies in Normandy drew praise from his British second in command, Lord Tedder: "One of the most disturbing features of the campaign ... had been the uninhibited boosting at home (England) of the British Army at the expense of the Americans. I ... fear that this process was sowing the seeds of a grave split between the Allies. For the moment, the Americans were being extremely reticent and generous, largely on account of Eisenhower's fine attitude." From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co., 1st American edition, copyright 1959 From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: *--Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  2662. Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 319 Montgomery's irrational behavior at the Falaise Gap was also influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman..." Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 318 Eisenhower thought Montgomery was a psychopath suffering from an inferiority complex Montgomery,Making of a General,by Nigel Hamilton,page 278 Montgomery's stepson John Carver talked about his "....schizoid tendencies engendered by his upbringing..."
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  2663. Ya because Monty went on a walk about for 3 months at Caen then spent the next 2 weeks letting the Wehrmacht escape the Falaise Pocket that could have been closed
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  2664. Monty had the final say,after he made his battle assessments(provided he did this) he should have aborted,can't blame JR officers when he very catalyst for the operation sat it out and some how is referred to as Field Marshall.The so called man in charge would have taken the credit and must accept the blame
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  2665.  @kjs1997  in his land of make believe (s)he does it mall the time
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  2666. Bloated Burns babbled Patton never did anything of note in WW2. Nothing. He never took the Westwall, despite losing 50,000 in Lorraine trying. A US media myth. ------------------------------------------------------------------ From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easilysaid Bayerlein. Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt Johnny if you keep telling tall tales the nurses will never let you out to play in the yard and be a dear and pick up your green plastic army men,visitors are slipping on them
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  2667. Pulling history from your dank crevasse again.4 yrs couldn't even come across the crummy channel.No worries,the Big Boys didn't mind helping the less fortunate
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  2668. Yes puddles I'm sure you are,hey good to see you and clone warrior catching up on old times
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  2669. John Burns try one of your other accounts,this one is realizing hallucinations again
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  2670. Burns you lampshade ring the nurses station you're realizing hallucinations once more. Did Bernard give you the Full Monty again
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  2671. Guards Armor and 43 Wessex just arrived in Nijmegen,tell them the war is over and all is forgiven
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  2672. Extra point question johnny,What continent did Generals Gort,Brooke and Montgomery get driven from and skedaddle in the other direction .Leaving the Dutch,Poles,French,Belgians to cover their retreat. The same continent the 82nd Airborne never retreated or got driven from. Take your time I know it's a tough one.
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  2673. Burns you whiny waif stick to pillow fights at least your losses won't hurt as much,Monty liked them. When you get your ankle monitor removed you may proceed into a Library and actually read history.They have nice people who will assist the disadvantaged such as yourself
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  2674. Stevie If I agreed with you we’d both be wrong. You think Burns leaves leaves facts :face-blue-smiling: perhaps your High School will let you repeat History next year. In the mean time read the Full Monty,nevermind it's past your bed time A Professor of Military History and Deputy Dean of Academic Studies in the Defence Studies Department,King's College - London Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem"
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  2675. listen stephie you've sourced nothing but your backside - repeatedly. Have your handler look up thread and read it for you - it's in English if that helps. Or simply go across the channel and ask Europe - shouldn't take 4 full years to cross it like it did monty
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  2676. From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticized Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies From Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel. Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed From With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Cassel & Co., 1st edition, copyright 1966. ---Page 599 " Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal."
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  2677. From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary.Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  2678. ring the nurses station your pants are filled
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  2679.  @the_imposter_knight5752  Great Post
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  2680. That you escaped the home again,they are receiving pings from the ankle monitor better call the Vicar
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  2681. Sandhurst trained taught by John Keegan himself,has won literary awards in the UK,USA,Canada and Australia and lectured at Cambridge along with being knighted - ya he's a good historian.You'RE the comedian
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  2682. Lyndon Latrine - any sources on that besides your backside? Nevermind I found them for you. Shocking I'm sure you'd agree Ladislas Farago - Patton: Ordeal and Triumph (New York: Astor-Honor, Inc., Inc., 1964), p. 505 'If Manstein was Germany's greatest strategist during World War II, Balck has strong claims to be regarded as our finest field commander. He has a superb grasp of tactics and great qualities of leadership' - Major-General von Mellenthin General Balck, commenting on the Lorraine Campaign, said: "Patton was the outstanding tactical genius of World War II. I still consider it a privilege and an unforgettable experience to have had the honor to oppose him" The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523 "In Tunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces, Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education" Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt. Refresh my memory - when did Guderian,Blumentritt,Rommel or Bayerlein drive the GIs off of the continent and into the sea like they did bernard? I do know the GIs loaded ship after ship stem to stern with men,materiel,food,fuel,tanks,trucks and artillery and sail 3,500 to help some loudmouth limpdicks like you go the last 30 miles - those Aston ankle biters posing as head hunters - ROTFLMAO When interviewed in 1945,Heinz Guderian , the Wehrmacht’s foremost practitioner of Blitzkrieg, stated, “ General Patton conducted a good campaign. From the standpoint of a tank specialist, I must congratulate him on his victory since he acted as I would have done had I been in his place General Gunther Blumentritt: We regarded General Patton extremely highly as the most aggressive panzer-general of the Allies . . . His operations impressed us enormously, probably because he came closest to our own concept of the classical military commander. He even improved on Napoleon’s basic tenets. From a letter on exhibit at Wichita KS "Museum of World treasures" Hasso Von Manteuffel 8018 Diessen am ammersee Mariahilfe Strasse 7. Dec. 16. 1976 Dear Mr. Dellingatti; I thank you for your letter, attached you find a photo as you asked for. In my opinion General Patton was a master of lightning warfare and the best commander in this reference - in spite of several sorts of frailty of human nature! Evidence of his excellent command and control of an army are the campaign in Sicily, the break-out in Brittany 1944 and during the Battle of the Bulge Dec 1944.I agree with Ladislaw Farago first-rate book on Patton "Ordeal and Triumph" - an excellent report! With very good wishes
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  2683.  @kaveebee  What's the name of the book if you can remember - thanx
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  2684.  @kaveebee  thanx
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  2685. No it didn't limp bizkit good excuse to get the pratt off the hook Beevor's Arnhem is the single most exhaustive and one of the best sourced of the books on Operation Market Garden that I've read - .Cornelius Ryan has probably talked to as many of the actual combatants as anyone.Kershaws "It Never Snows in September" covers the German perspective,they basically agree it is the fault of the so called Field Marshall Montgomery failed foreray. It is written with the benefits of an exhaustive research of the British, American, Dutch and German records, the book provides amazing detail to "The Bridge Too Far" in Arnhem, Nethlerlands. The whole plan suffered from the plain fact that it relied on a single road of attack by the British XXX Corps where going off the road was a near impossibility due to the wet, boggy polders, obvious to anyone who has spent any time in The Netherlands (they rarely use fences in pastures as a dug ditch will quickly fill with water creating a natural barrier). The failure to listen to Dutch military personnel about the geographical defeat of the plan was just another in a string of Montgomery ego led disasters. The utter evil -- absolutely barbaric and shocking to the conscious -- actions of the Nazi SS, the German commanders in The Netherlands, the Dutch SS and the average German soldier are properly detailed and the Dutch people would rightly demand a fuller accounting of the barbarous actions during those months. The author thoroughly explores the lack of planning by Montgomery and Browning, the willful self delusion of Montgomery borne from an ego that held little regard for the futility and needless death of British and American troops. Reluctantly and very mistakenly Eisenhower put American Divisions under the command of the British General Montgomery in what turned out to be the greatest loss of any American Airborne Division -- before or since. Montgomery should be a national disgrace to the British, that is clear. Eisenhower began acting as a politician in deferring to Monty's superhuman ego, and abdicated his role as general commanding in a war. The greatest suffering was then endured by the Dutch people. Epic in its tragedy. A lesson in failed leadership by the British and American commanding generals. A shock and outrage to the conscious in the inhumanity and pure evil of the German army. A story that needs to be retold -- and very well done.
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  2686. VA doesn't have any enemies but his friends dislike him intensely Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2687. Complaints go up orders come down.Whatever Brerton did or didn't do was approved by who? A certain FM who evidently was AWOL.Again Burnhole Pierre.None of the objectives were met you knob.And has been pointed out this was Monty's brainchild .You know it, I know it ,your fookin' Mouse pad knows it. Excerpt FromThe Brereton Diaries: The War In The Air In The Pacific, Middle East And Europe 11 September 1941-8 May 1945“There were several undesirable features of MARKET. General Browning, who had been charged with planning for MARKET with the 21st Army Group, informed me that at *General Montgomery’s insistence he had virtually agreed to drop the 101st Airborne Division in seven separate areas along an axis 30 miles in length to seize key crossings. I objected to this because such dispersion destroys the tactical integrity of a division, presents an insurmountable supply problem, and renders the smaller groups susceptible to being destroyed in detail without accomplishing the mission I decided that General Taylor, commanding the 101st Airborne Division, would see General Montgomery about a more concentrated landing. If, after the disadvantages of the first maneuver have been explained to General Montgomery, he still insists, we will go in as planned. Excerpt FromThe Brereton Diaries: The War In The Air In The Pacific, Middle East And Europe, 3 October 1941-8 May 1945 Lieutenant-General Lewis H. Brereton It absolutely was a plea to change the order A division commander would not fly to the continent in wartime four days prior to a major operation for a purely social visit -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success The berk's top general didn't like the plan From Carlo D'este,Decision in Normandy From the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable*1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed Nor did his Chief of Staff - can't make this up I tell you Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray.That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him
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  2688. Monty even admitted it,SHAEF and Alan Brooke and Admiral Ramsay pointed right at Monty.He was supposedly a Field Marshall,either demand your directives be followed or cancel the operation From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here,Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth. From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 196 Throughout September Montgomery had been most anxious to open the Channel ports to Allied supply,principally LaHavre,Boulogne and Calais.This he regarded as essential to his strategic plans..But he undertook Market Garden without these ports and with a supply line extending from his rear maintenance area around Bayeux directly to the divisions of second Army. The inadequacy of this arrangement led him to ask for more supplies.When he got them,he rescinded the delay in the launch of Market Garden and to Gen.Harry Crerar he wrote that he had won a "great victory" at SHAEF Montgomery never requested more transport for his divisions..He got all the logistical support he requested with only minor delays.The truth was that the operation was too ambitious .In launching it with a tenuous supply line,no reserve build up of supplies,a shortage of ground transport and both VIII & XII Corps not ready at the start,Montgomery's professionalism had deserted him
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  2689. From Eisenhower & Montgomery ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb,page 409 There were many reasons why Montgomery was being effectively downgraded once more .*Eisenhower had no doubt any longer that his reputation as a battle-winning commander was greatly inflated.The experience at Caen,Antwerp,Arnhem and delays in following up the Ardennes assault and the excessively thorough build up for the Rhine crossing provided sufficient evidence for that General Whitely .IKE's British deputy chief of operations,said the feeling at Allied HQs "was that if anything was to be done quickly,don't give it to Monty. Monty was the last person that would be chosen to drive on Berlin - he would have needed 6 months to prepare". The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a406861.pdf Yup an excerpt a gross underestimation of the enemy and a serious misjudgment of the terrain.”  1  Kirkpatrick later goes on to attempt to explain the intelligence failure by saying, “In the one week between the decision to mount the operation and the attack there was not time to collect additional information on the enemy forces in the area.”  2  This last statement of his is clearly incorrect based on the Ultra messages, and brings his first statement into question. After the fall of Antwerp to the British Second Army on 4 September 1944, Ultra began to provide a very clear picture of the German forces moving into Holland, the reorganization within their command structure, the repositioning of panzer divisions to Holland, and the fact that the Germans anticipated an Allied attack, possibly with airborne forces, towards either Arnhem or Aachen. The intelligence information was available; whether commanders were adequately warned of the risks to the operation is really the question, as well as whether intelligence failed during this operation
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  2690. John Burns you phoney - British author of Military History, Max Hastings, states the following in his recent book, The SECRET WAR, Spies, Ciphers, and Guerrillas 1939 -1945 referring to Field Marshal Montgomery on page 495 “The little British field-marshal’s neglect of crystal-clear intelligence, and of an important strategic opportunity, became a major cause of the Western Allied failure to break into the heart of Germany in 1944. -The same overconfidence was responsible for the launch of the doomed airborne assault in Holland on 17 September, despite Ultra’s flagging of the presence near the drop zone of the 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions, together with Field-Marshal Walter Model’s headquarters at Oosterbeek. Had ‘victory fever’ not blinded Allied commanders, common sense dictated that even drastically depleted SS panzers posed a mortal threat to lightly armed and mostly inexperienced British airborne units. -Ultra on 14-15 September also showed the Germans alert to the danger of an airborne landing in Holland It was obvious that it would be a very hard to drive the British relief force 70 miles up a single Dutch road, with the surrounding countryside impassable for armor, unless the Germans failed to offer resistance. The decision to launch Operation Market Garden’ against this background was recklessly irresponsible, and the defeat remains a deserved blot on Montgomery’s reputation
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  2691.  @johnpeate4544  More BS sources were left SHAEF AND Alan Brooke pointed right at Monty This from a Dutch Poster isn't it ironic that the biggest Rhine bifurcation was the WAAL at nijmegen and the 30crps effectively HAD crossed the Rhine and all they had to do is do the same as the Germans at ferry crossings:PUT TANKS ACROSS the rivers/canals and you were in free accessible German tank land !Only a small river Oude Ijssel at Doetinchem (which was there too after Market Garden )and go go go into das deutsche Reich?! Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come?How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT do the same ?Not in September, not in October and not in November I like Atkinson to The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 281 Montgomery monitored the battle through liaison officers and radio reports He had neither visited the battlefield at Market Garden nor seen his field commanders he was having his portrait painted,again and seemed intranced by the experience,boasting that his likeness would "create a tremendous sensation at next year's Academy." Yet at 10:50 PM on wednesday he felt confident enough of the view from Brussels to cable Eisenhower: Things are going to work out alright ..the British airborne division at Arnhem has been having a bad time but their situation should be eased now that we can advance nothwards from Nijmegen to their support.There is a sporting chance that we should capture the bridge at Arnhem. In the subsequent message to Brooke,he added, I regard the general situation on the rivers as now very satisfctory" This assessment was nothing less than hallucinatory Despite the valor at Nijmegen,any "sporting chance" to take the Arnhem Bridge had passed.Things in Holland were not going to work out,even if the high command did not yet know it .As XXX Corps account later acknowledged "in front,on the flanks,and in the rear,all was not well." From The Guns at Last Light,page 282,by Rick Atkinson The new bridgehead over the Waal failed to uncork failed to uncork the advance to Arnhem as Montgomery had hoped. After a 35 hr delay at Nijmegen,XXX Corps vanguard sat for another 18hrs .Enemy raids on Hell's Highway played hob:reinforcements from the 43rd Division took 3 days to travel 60 miles in reaching the Irish Guards and 82nd Airborne .Gavin concluded after 4 yrs british veterans were excessively cautious,nurturing what he called "Why die now" sentiments.He found Colonel Tucker in a farmhouse near the rail bridge seething at the delay. "What in the hell are they doing,why the hell don't they get on to Arnhem" Tucker demanded. WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT
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  2692. Johnny be a dear and pick up the plastic soldiers on the floor the nurses keep slipping on them.Your war view is truly unique. Played out nightly with your army men on the floor of the Special needs center where you reside More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013
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  2693. John Burns you've fooled no one but at least you are getting better at disguising your sickness .You haven't forgot to sign out of one of your accounts before posting in another.Perhaps if they rescind that restraining order and your ankle monitor is removed the management at the home there will take you to the library.I hope those voices leave you alone I have things to do and take your meds like the nice men with the nets there have directed
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  2694.  @LA_Commander  exactly and Bernard with the backbone of a gummy bear didn't show up during the actual battle 🐔 . Field Marshall Model and General Kurt Student against Bernard might as well been Tinkerbell vs Attila the Hun and Ghengis Khan
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  2695. Bullcrap the were US supplies,the supply problem stemmed from propping up Bernard.Once Patton was stopped the Gerries were able to shore up defenses. Balck himself mentioned this and that it was a mistake to stop him
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  2696. Jesus Tony C'mon how many effing times have i left quotes from the top about opening Antwerp - SMDHFFS. This steaming pile of Monty's just demonstrated why SHAEF wanted the port of Antwerp open in the 1st place!!! Monty thought he'd make a mad dash for Arnhem then Berlin - his words. It was 483 miles from Cherbourg to Arnhem even if 20-30-40 tanks make the Bridge then what? They are Dunkirked,DEAD or captured. Walter Model bringing in by rail from the near by ruhr - Tanks,artillery - 88s and men. What if Model drops the Bridges like Wilhelm Bittrichor Heinz Harmel wanted? the whole British Para Div would be behind enemy lines with no help or hope of support. They could't cross you do realize that, right? They couldn't keep lugging supplies by truck all that way. When a few ships could accomplish just that It's this type of thinking that got the BEF in trouble in the 1st place at places like Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 As Luddendorf stated in WWI - lions led by jackasses - and IKE bares some of it for knowing better but still capitulating to the waif's desires in the 1st place
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  2697.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  he still ignored Britsh planners previously from Linnet and Comet from which this debacle sprung. The only difference was he got his mitts on the AA Divisions. But the problems that cancelled the two previous Britsh Operations were all still there - MONTY GARDEN
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  2698. It was Monty's plan and he didn't even have the decency to be there apathetic dweeb
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  2699. Gary,Gary,Gary - Monty didn't warn IKE about shit only after his clownish command getting his ass handed to him at Sicily,Caen,Falaise then Monty Garden did he realize no one needed him or his BULLSHIT
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  2700.  @Stand663  yes there were 610,000 GIs and 500,000 krauts over 6 weeks
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  2701. John Burns babbled Attempting and doing it are different matters. ------------------------------------------------------------ Like you attempting to make sense and provide evidence
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  2702. Burns ,Beevor sources actual archives of participants,where you fetch yours from a rather ample backside
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  2703. John Burns babbled XXX Corps just rolled over ----------------------------------------------------- Finally you have something right.I knew if I hung around long enough you'd get it
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  2704. The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.210 SHAEF and Eisenhower should have been focused the Allied attack on one feasible break through area. Whether it be be Patton in Lorraine,Gerow at Wallendorf, or Collins at Achen. Instead it decided to concentrate on the risky ill advised attack on Arnhem. The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.213-14 On 29 August Horrocks XXX Corp set out on a drive that some conclude might have altered the course of the war. They advanced 250 miles through northern France and into Belgium unopposed and captured the strategic port of Antwerp virtually with out a fight. Horrocks admitted as much "we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might have even have succeeded in bouncing across the Rhine - if we had taken the chance and and carried straight on" There were no significant German forces between Horrocks and the Rhine.But instead of ordering Horrocks forward on September 4 Montgomery halted him. (Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.170,by R.W. Thompson) Montgomery failed to exploit his opportunity by failing to cross the Albert Canal and advance down the Walcheren Rd to capture the coastal batteries situated along the Scheldt that prevented shipping from reaching the port of Antwerp and delivering critical supplies to the Allied Armies massing along the Siegfried Line The Germans quickly took advantage of Monty's failure by sending in heavy reinforcements to the Walcheren area. It would take 21 st Army group more than 2 months to clear the region of enemy troops
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  2705. it was Monty's abortion and even the British Officers at HQ blamed the surly snot
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  2706.  @steveosullivan5262  great posts steve ask Burns to read the Full Monty - Bernard rubbing down little lads - that's his hero. Also ask burns to show you to Monty's Statue in Arnhem......there isn't one. Keep up the good work bunch of revisionist slappies in here Starting with the guy in the video
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  2707.  @johnburns4017  This one's barking - bernard was worse at commanding than you are commenting Montgomery in Europe 1943-45,by Richard Lamb pages 360-362 "British 6th Airborne had lost 30% of it's personnel killed and wounded ;the Air landing brigade,which came in gliders had lost over 70% of its equipment The Army that needed to keep casualty count low lost over 3,100 men crossing the Rhine north of Wesel. The disparity between the number of lives lost at Wesel and the 2 earlier American crossings is striking Hodges 1st US Army got across at Remagen with a casualty count of 31 men Patton's 3rd US Army came across near Oppenheim "with the total loss of 28 men killed and wounded Operation Varsity, for the northern route casualty figures tell a grim story. Into the industrial heart of Germany The 6th Airborne had suffered 590 killed and another 710 wounded or missing. Several hundred of the missing later turned up to rejoin their units, however. The 17th Airborne had 430 killed, with 834 wounded and 81 missing. Casualties among the glider pilots and the troop plane pilots and crews included 91 killed, 280 wounded and 414 missing in action. Eighty planes were shot down, and only 172 of the 1,305 gliders that landed in Germany were later deemed salvageable. A total of 1,111 Allied soldiers had been killed during the day’s fighting. In comparison, the 101st Airborne Division had lost 182 killed and the 82nd Airborne 158 on D-Day. Operation Varsity, March 24, 1945, was the worst single day for Allied airborne troops. Page 368,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-1945,By Max Hastings The US Army relished to the utmost the spectacle of Montgomery preparing to "stage" a huge,formal military pageant ,more than 2 days after it's own soldiers had crossed 70 miles to the south.Patton's Army had crossed at night on 22 March - "without the benefit of aerial bombing,ground smoke,artillery preparation and airborne assistance," - all of which 21st Army Group(Montgomery) was employing on a prodigious scale!! It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time. Monty should have been dismissed maybe brought up on charges. His morbid craving for fame got 1100 men KILLED in one day crossing the Rhine. Churchill,Brooke,Eisenhower and the Press were all called to pay attention to what instead showed Montgomery's complete lack of tactical and moral integrity. The GIs crossed 70 miles to the south with less than 70 casualties and no fanfare. Market Garden took 17,000 casualties in 9 days - that he didn't have the decency to show up for and direct either. He was nothing but a trouble tart
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  2708. In The Last Offensive, the U.S. Army’s official account of Operation Varsity and the final drive into Germany, Charles B. MacDonald a veteran infantry​ officer who had served with the 23d Infantry, 2d Infantry Division, in Europe in World War II, stated that with the weak condition of German units east of the Rhine, “some overbearing need for the special capability of airborne divisions would be required to justify their use, ” and that the specific need never existed. The objectives were important, the ground forces could have taken them without difficulty, and in all likelihood, with fewer casualties. As evidence, he pointed out that the amphibious crossings faced very little resistance; the two American divisions in the river assault, the 30th and 79th Infantry Divisions, lost a total of forty-one killed, 450 wounded, and seven missing. *James A. Huston, in his book, Out of the Blue: U.S. Army Airborne Operations in World War II, agreed with MacDonald, adding that “had the same resources been employed on the ground, it is conceivable that the advance to the east may have been more rapid than it was.” Jack Ariola US Soldier in side a glider "the anti-aircraft fire was so thick we could have got out and walked on it. Bullets and FLAK were coming thru the glider and every time one hit the bottom glider and came out the top it sounded like the crack of a whip only 10 times louder Otto Leitner, German Lieutenant "with so many aircraft it was difficult not to hit something.I ordered my men to keep firing in the hope to fill the sky with metal and damage the aircraft" Burns you're a steaming pile and your family is like wise
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  2709. Puddles the only thing that supercedes your stupidity is your willingness to express it From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 317 Montgomery got along with neither the Americans nor the Canadians.After Dunkirk the French absolutely refused to serve under a British commander. Ladislas Farago - Patton: Ordeal and Triumph (New York: Astor-Honor, Inc., Inc., 1964), p. 505 'If Manstein was Germany's greatest strategist during World War II, Balck has strong claims to be regarded as our finest field commander. He has a superb grasp of tactics and great qualities of leadership' - Major-General von Mellenthin General Balck, commenting on the Lorraine Campaign, said: "Patton was the outstanding tactical genius of World War II. I still consider it a privilege and an unforgettable experience to have had the honor to oppose him" From The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 523 "InTunisia the Americans had to pay a stiff price for their experience,but it brought rich dividends .Even at the time American Generals showed themselves to be very advanced in the technical handling of their forces, Although we had to wait until Patton's Army in France to see the most astonishing achievements in mobile warfare.The Americans it is fair to say,profited far more than the British from their experience in Africa,thus confirming axiom that education is easier than re-education" Fancy some more you poor trampled cabbage leaf?
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  2710. From actual historians & participants and not the Carnival Barkers that you quote.Go jump in the chanel,a yank will be by to pull you out
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  2711. have your handler at the home read you some history
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  2712. Chin up there Sunshine - no other one
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  2713. Like Seth said you continue to display your capacity not to think.Get it together kid. Grow up. Get a life. Stop being a burden on society.Maybe they'll let you stroll the grounds of the home - if you ask them nice & proper
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  2714. Cybil where are your other 16 personalities?Making them up to agree with yourself - I wasn't the 1st to note these peculiarities.Why don't you play Risk,Monopoly or Checkers with one of the other inhabitants of the home?Oh Puddles why don't you read those direct quotes beneath from actual Historians and participants instead of The Burns Book of Babble?
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  2715. Devers was the 1st allied army group to cross the sigfreid line with Gen.Alexander Patch 7 US Army and the Free French 1st Army
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  2716. So Little Villa Eisenhower, Bradley, and Devers personal combat experience, zero,Huh. So that wouldn't include getting routed out of Norway,Netherlands,Belgium,France & Dunkirk in May/June 1940,right? And Devers reached the Rhine before Monty/Patton/Bradley but you knew that
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  2717. Not Brownings fault the mongrel Monty hid away while everyone else fought.Even Carrington tried it for a second or two. and thicko why are you repeating your own drivel? Set the scotch down or see a neorologist. Browning was given medals by the King after Monty's debacle.Just because the Royal tossers hand out trinketts to assuage their guily feelings of defeat..Evidently Hackett was dumb and blind afflictions you seem to share with him. Eisenhower, Bradley, and Devers never got driven into the channel you knob - look it up it's in English. Browning and guys like him are the reason the Dough Boys had to cross the ocean - and it wouldn't be the last time
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  2718.  @nickdanger3802  There you go - that's how important LZs are,Geronimo a former US Para tried telling these slappies.If 1st Para were properly supplied they wouldn't have taken Arnhem but they could have fought off the encirclement and performed a tactical retreat with a lot less losses. But that's Monty again a no show during the largest air drop up until that point of the war - any other Army he's either removed or shot
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  2719. the only thing monty trained were turning the swim team into frogmen at the Dunking,er, I mean Dunkirk. But a glorious and righteous retreat it was. So which Monty came up with "RUNAWAY" 1st - Bernard or Python? They're both funny but only one was trying to be
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  2720. You keep refuting yourself with the stupidity of your own statements.None of the objectives were met you knob -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success
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  2721. 4 full years your family of warriors sat on their bloated burns backsides waiting to hitch a ride with the GIs back to the continent - that we did helping the less fortunate and all .how long did you think the rest of Europe thought they should wait.Specially when Your crown wanted Germany 1st then Monty runs away to the desert.And doesn't come back across the Channel for 4 years.Funny it took only 16 days to leave .You abandoned them and the ANZACs in the S.Pacific along with throwing the Czechs under the bus at Munich
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  2722. Hi Johnny how were things over at the home this Holiday Season?Did they let you play with your plastic soldiers?Did one of those nice nurses kiss you under the mistletoe?So you can scratch that off your list of things to do.Did the Vicar stop by to see you and ask to remove your ankle monitor? he's such a nice man
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  2723. Toby the astronaut are you sniffing dry erase markers again?
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  2724. Poulussen couldn't identify an M-1 on twitter and was a photographer by trade
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  2725. The 82nd never got shoved in the channel that Monty ended up in and had 4 yrs to cross with your uncles.Even the 82nd couldn't bail out the pathetic pratt who never showed up - so go back to playing with your snot bubbles From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 292 Despite Montgomery's message to IKE that he thought there was still a "sporting chance" of taking the bridge at Arnhem he must have sensed by then that a terrible disaster was taking place,which would considerably damage his reputation.After all his demands for priority which he received in the north to get across the Rhine,he could not have wanted to face IKE,Patton,Bradley and SHAEFF in Versailles.And could not have been keen to encounter General Bedell-Smith or Strong ,whose fears about German strength in the southern Netherlands Monty had ridiculed.The very next day Monty wrote in his diary "I am very doubtful now if 1st airborne will be able to hold out and we may have to withdraw them". And the fact he never visited Horrocks during the entire battle confirms the impression that he was keeping his distance,a rare event for the "Master"
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  2726. General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops .At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend."With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions". General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt
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  2727. Cornhole and ASSTON are Monty's little swiss boys
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  2728. Bullshit Monty wasn't even there as the plan got blasted from Arnhem all the way south of Valkenswaard .And the 1000 tanks were 1st written about by Poullusen a monty apologist .They were not in the 82nds pre battle plans,operational orders or post battle reports .It was a fabrication - maybe if 1st para held onto their landing zones they could have gotten re supplied.But Montgomery faffed this up so bad the allies got turned back in many places .Even the Germans point right at Guards Armor and Carrington who sat.Heinz Harmel the recon Officer said they could have made Arnhem - where they would have gotten blasted by men and material arriving by rail en masse from the Ruhr
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  2729. @Answer Questions AQ & ND great break downs but Monty and to a lesser extent Horrocks indeed own this bag of rats in a burning meth lab.If Monty was any kind of Field Marshall,ya know like Model he would have made his combat assessments and reviewed the order of battle,instead of conviently disappeared after the debacle and started throwing jr officers under the bus.IKE should have known better after Monty's previous debris fields
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  2730.  @nickdanger3802  Read Buckingham's Arnhem,Overlord had 900 sorties,OMG had 1600,that's like 80% more flights.Also only 4 out of 10 flights had navigators.Brereton's boss Williams knew that shortage was a problem as there was much less daylight.They even had less navigators with Strategic Bombing stepping up Day/Night.This dickhead Monty was a disaster across the board.The were longer flights and the days were shorter.There were also moonless nights on Sept 17/18.Monty knew this because Taylor wanted to meet him on the 13th about this but Monty blew off him and Beetle -Smith to, he didn't listen to Freddie or SHAEF either,he rightly got blasted later.Ike and him both should have been removed - one lane for 64 miles.Even Burns wouldn't be lopsided enough to go for that - maybe And Monty still wanted to try again after this operation.He indeed was autistic
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  2731.  @nickdanger3802  Give me a link more than happy to light them up if they are like some of the revisionists around here.Any way the 82nd's drops containing a dozen 105mm Howitzers from 2 c-47s pulling 2 gliders were turned around on the 18th because of weather- another Monty misadventure
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  2732. Link them I'll chime in if you'd like,I don't mind polite conversations,it's just hard with Burns dragging his knuckles around.Good government link to OMG try to finish it when I get the time
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  2733. Monty was relieved because he was an in competant supposed FM who embellished his limp wristed efforts.You're only an authority on the electro-shock therapy you receive. Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac.He bragged to the press he did great things even his own staff was motified at his morbid twist of the facts.Britain had many good soldiers but he wasn't one of them "CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS,Transcribed By Major Gary Wade "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks, also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce.But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything. Monty was a good general, I've always said, but never a great one. Page 438 from Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb Montgomery had served the Allied cause well.But his egotism and irrepressible tactlessness did neither himself or Allied unity any good at a critical moment when important decisions affecting both him and it were about to be made.The military attache' at the American Embassy in London reported back to Washington "I have the strong impression that most British Officers,including many in the influential War Office are much less enthusiastic over Montgomery than is the British Public. Lord Ismay in the House of Commons expressed the wish that someone would "muzzle" or better still chloroform Monty. "I have come to the conclusion that his love of publicity is a disease,like alcoholism or taking drugs and that it sends him equally mad." The sorry fact is the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities otherwise he would have been sacked
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  2734. sigle road that got ambushed continuosly that was elevated for easy shooting and no room for manuever.Even you wouldn't be that dumb,well maybe not
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  2735. It couldn't or wouldn't have been monty ignored the massive Market side of it.Leaving himself an excuse as the only way he could win was with the best and the most of everything. Of course he ducked out as the plan spun apart almost immediately as an actual Field Marshall - Walter Model was present and directing operations. Next to him monty was a one legged man in an ass kicking contest
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  2736.  @dIRECTOR259  From everything I've read it was Field Marshall Model that kept Bittrich and Harmel from both blowing it.The astute F*** though a NAZI planned on using it proficiently for counter offensive measures - that's confidence and brass. However that is how moronic TIKs comment section is.Had he dropped either or Arnhem/Nijmegen Spans Monty's misadventure is found to be a disaster in waiting for all to see. They or he don't have a tactical clue. Be F.A.F. 34,000 Troops asking well Bernard what NOW? Berard?Bernard?Oh that's right he didn't make the trip - like WALTER,SMDH
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  2737. Sure if you like Mythology and alternate history.He's not getting any book offers
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  2738. Save your bullshit Monty wanted to retreat biggest battle in the West and the poof wanted to fall back.He lied at Caen,the Desert,falaise market garden and here.If IKE hadn't given the wisp 16 divisions already we wouldn't have got caught But that's alright the british boys lost a hole 200 KIA while the American Army got things sorted
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  2739. Stop making shit up from the Cornhole Chronicles.No one agreed except IKE finally caved in to get Monty to at least move From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303*Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant,Doubleday & Co,1st American edition, copyright 1959.From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp Max Hastings,Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10thPanzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area.With their Recon Battalions intact.Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" Even John Keegan The Second World War by John Keegan,page 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable,since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp.Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary.On 10 September he secured Eisenhowers assent to the plan
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  2740. Monty and Browning both blamed by Major Tony Hibbert interviewed is on a couple of youtube channels
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  2741. Scribblers - good to see your stealing my material.Should have left your fore fathers in the channel that way we wouldn't have to listen to disturbed cherry picking polluted prats like your self .In the mean time get back to mopping the puddles at the Adult Theater.Your boys left their toys when they got run off the continent.I don't think that's funny but delusional dipshits like you have to be reminded of who resupplied,refitted and reinforced the wavering crown,and Europe know it just because you won't admit it
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  2742. Burnhole,sure the Britsh were - the Gerries were laughing so hard after the Dunkirking they couldn't defend themselves. Ans as usual you're cherry picking, Churchill blundered into him by firing the good generals. Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 317 Montgomery got along with neither the Americans nor the Canadians.After Dunkirk the French absolutely refused to serve under a British commander.Such widespread mistrust of the little British General did not bode well for future Allied operations in which Monty played a role. For a host of reasons Montgomery's usefulness came to an end in Normandy,probably with in a few weeks of the invasion.Any other British General could have done as well as Montgomery did at Caen;and very few would have handled the Battle of the Falaise Gap so incompetently Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap by William Weidner,page 319 Montgomery's irrational behavior at the Falaise Gap was also influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 320 The poor performance of the British 2nd Army in Normandy had tied Monty's hands.He did not expect the Germans to be that good.But when the Americans broke the German lines at St Lo instead of turning the Americans loose on the open German flank,Montgomery stopped the Americans at Argentan and sent them North east to Paris-orleans gap.There were simply too many bitter pills on Montgomery's desk.He could not allow the Americans,especially George Patton to take Falaise away for m his 2nd British Army regardless of the cost Ike and Monty:Generals at War,by Norman Gelb,page 329 Monty's egocentric nature made it impossible for him to respond to complex situation in which he found himself by insisting he had not been mistaken about anything. Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 318 Eisenhower thought Montgomery was a psychopath suffering from an inferiority complex. Monte,Making of a General,by Nigel Hamilton,page 278 Montgomery's stepson John Carver talked about his "....schizoid tendencies engendered by his upbringing...."
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  2743. From Blood,Sweat and Arrogance,by Gordon Corrigan,page 417-18 National myth has it that Monty took over a defeated,demoralized and badly led 8th Army,and by his own abilities and powers of leadership won the great victory of Alamein and then went on to drive the Germans & Italians out of North Africa in a whirlwind campaign that could not have been achieved by anyone else. We know this because Montgomery has told us so,not only by his masterly grasp of public relations at the time but in one of the most self serving memoirs ever foisted on the reading public,one that did immense harm to Anglo-American relations after the war.Monty's admirers would not deny that he was cocky,self-assured,fiercely ambitious,domineering,often unsociable,desperate for success,frequently undiplomatic,jealous of the success of others,unable to admit that something had not gone exactly as he had intended
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  2744. Americans don't have a problem with the British,it was the arrogant useless knob Monty that started the crap. Even British Officers hated him - he lied once - and that was continuously
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  2745. there were but they got driven from the continent,it is British lies/failures and bloviating sorry you got knocked on your royal rear ends
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  2746.  @Theweeze100  Agreed but some have to bend the narrative to their liking.Tip of the cap to those that served
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  2747.  @dmbeaster  Great Posts ignore the unread fanboi,he pulls history from backside of course after getting his very dense head out of there. He's a little pissy it didn't take the GIs 4 yrs to cross like the laggard he loves.Britain had much better commanders
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  2748.  @michaelkenny8540  no it wasn't you rube not one time have you sourced anything but that lampshade of yours and the voices inside of it - are you a shut in?.Operation Thunderclap and that fizzled much like your efforts in the comment sections
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  2749. Is that what the voices under the bed told you? Continents drift apart faster than Monty moved
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  2750.  @michaelkenny8540  you're experiencing hallucinations again - ring the nurses station. Bradley never joined Monty in the Channel - EVER
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  2751. How cute John burns using his alternate account and writing in italics More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2752. monty never stopped the attacks they were hitting ANTWERP instead.Nor did his debacle never take arnhem,nor did the tosser show up to direct like Field Marshall Model The reason it was a bridge too far is Bernard Montgomery was a poor general. Poor planning, poor use of intelligence, poor logistics. Montgomery's plan required 100% mission success, something unknown in large scale Airborne operations. Failure to capture a single objective would jeopardize the entire offensive, all of the little operations within the one big one must be performed to perfection - which never happens anywhere - ever. The plan was unrealistically ambitious with just too many variables factoring in for things to go wrong - and did. It was a horribly disjointed plan contrived by a damaged little man looking for attention and glory. Perfection doesn't exist, it's not a human attribute. And that is precisely what needed to happen for this scheme to succeed. Anyone with any level of tactical & logistical integrity would look at the plan and know it was doomed by just the single road. Too many choke points easy to defend with the polder marshes, canal network and flood plains restricting the advance to one road​ with no room to maneuver. This debacle actually proved IKE's point about the broad front - that the Russians were using on the eastern front.
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  2753. Still blowing snot bubbles I see.Johnny if you behave the nurses will remove your ankle monitor so you can go out into the court yard .Do be careful,please.Oh and blisterhead they had to WAIT for XXX Corp.Monty as you know had faffed this up to hell and back
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  2754. From another fine British Author From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 227 Gavin's CoS thought that the task of the 82nd called for 2 divisions not one .It was difficult and risky to 1st secure the LZ,Gavin'e essential task then attempt to capture the Nijmegen Road Bridge,the Grave Bridge and at least one other bridge over the Maas-Waal Canal.Gavin did try to strike out on D-Day for the Nijmegen Bridge.They had to be recalled owing to the threats on the heights and need to retake the LZ,parts of which were occupied by German Troops . See Puddles had 1st Para had a dedicated drop zone perhaps the could have been resupplied.But there are some misguided posters on here who blame them instead of the obvious culprit - Montgomery and IKE .Britain had some fine soldiers unfortunately he wasn't one of them
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  2755. You make me larff,Neilands is a bigger hack than you and has been dismissed in serious circles.Putting your posts in italics doesn't cover the bombast,Johhny.Monty even admitted it and I've given that quote to you at least 50X. So take your prozac and do try to keep up
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  2756. Burns serious question do you have someone looking after you as you repeat posts when it's clear to see you're repeating yourself - get that scan ASAP
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  2757. I hope you haven't slid to the point of Sleepy Joe
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  2758. little villa pulling proof from your backside again? the pratt said he'd go to Berlin,perhaps if he showed up maybe Arnhem. You remind me of an Indian Chief at The Battle of the Little Big Horn - Sitting Bull .That would be a good name for you - as you do both so well
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  2759. That would be BERLIN,BERKin would be place you reside in,little villa is lying 2nd nature to you or do you have work at it.What part of Bernard admitting after the war "a bad mistake on my part" escapes your grasp.Go across the Channel they'll explain it to you.None of you excessive haranguing changes any of that.Or try using the address bar at the top of the page to relieve me from furthering your education More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2760. Burns go visit Monty's Statue in Arnhem - oh that's right there isn't one!!! Why did Monty cross the road? To help JOHN Burns with his ankle monitor How did Monty cross the Channel? By getting got his bum kicked off the continent 🚑🚑🚑
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  2761. What Failed Marshmellow,err, Field Marshall got driven into a 30 mile wide channel,then took 4 full years to come back across only after the GIs came 3,500 miles to do it for him? You can ask them across the channel in Norway,Netherlands,Belgium,France,Luxembourg or the Gerries themselves.
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  2762. Read the Full Monty irving burns - you're mentioned in it.Disgraceful I'm sure you'd agree,grab your loofah Bernard will see you now - in the Channel of course
    1
  2763. Walter Model an actuall Field Marshall unlike the propped up tinkerbell bernard was present and directing operations in person
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  2764.  @johnburns4017  Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan .One needs a bucket reading your posts Narrow thrust from a narrow mind,Monty didn't do squat since the desert - where he couldn't lose .We're your talking to an idiot who thinks an operation that achieved no tactical objectives is a smashing success. Old Monty at least Japanese Commanders had the common decency to disembowel themselves after a disaster like this -Deep water port of Antwerp wasn't opened -The rocket sites were still operating -17,000 Allied soldiers were killed/captured -Dutch men were forced into slave labor at Wehrmacht Manufacturing Factories in the reich -22,000 Dutch citizens were starved or froze that winter because of NAZI reprisals for Dutch collaborations with the allies
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  2765. Model being an actual Field Marshall conducted a clinic in modern mechanical warfare.I would say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all.Ike knowingly kept the British relevent in order to keep the alliance together so that American soldiers would not have to shoulder the entire casualty burden on the Western Front.And to give Stalin a bold look As you know Monty did absolutely nothing he tried to withdraw in the Ardennes.Bad habit he picked up 1940 on the French Beaches,as everyone knows.And of course Collins and Harmon ignored him From the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 469 Montgomery hesitated suspecting that Runstedt 'had enough combat strength for another attack that could punch through to Liege.Collins thought not. "nobody is going to break through these troops" he told Montgomery"this isn't going to happen. "If the Allies failed to attack closer to the base of the salient,they risked leaving a corridor through which retreating Germans could escape, Collins told the Field Marshall "you're going to push the Germans out of the bag,"Collins added,"just like you did at Falaise." Even the nurses at the home know this Johnny
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  2766. Burpsy I've supplied all of those links from the books for 3 yrs- English Authors mostly. Have the nurses there read one of them to you - they're in English and you won't need your crayons CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS Transcribed By Major Gary Wade "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks, also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce. But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything Monty was a good general, I've always said, but never a great one.
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  2767. Hey tripe I actually read the books,then jot down the information to file and cache it Where you just yank bombast out of your ample backside or Burns Big Book of British Bombast
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  2768. Johnny I'll be over on the WW2 podcast board giving you and your aliases a good pasting
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  2769. No Johnny the revisionist,Buster
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  2770. Youtube will slap a restraining order on you like the women in your neighborhood.I only quote accredited authors not the graffiti scribblers you look up have them dial back the voltage at bthe home eh,Lucian
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  2771. Johnny - Monty will be by with the bubble bath
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  2772. This Nigel Hamilton https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/26/books.booksnews https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/4260024/The-third-sex-that-sustained-the-Empire.html Ya your cracking all right WAS Monty gay? The subject has arisen yet again because his biographer, Nigel Hamilton - in the course of publicising a life of the Field Marshal slightly facetiously entitled The Full Monty - has said that Montgomery only repressed his urges because of the two years' hard labour that a conviction for homosexual acts then carried. He has said also that he did not want to reveal his "findings" in his original three-volume life of Montgomery in 1981 because of the "repressive" social attitudes then prevalent. The "revelations" that Montgomery preferred the company of young staff officers to that of women have been around for a long time, and Hamilton himself referred to Monty's "romantic friendships with young boys" in the original book, specifically the 12-year-old Swiss lad Lucien Trueb "who engaged Monty's affectionate attention". The question Hamilton is really posing now is not whether Field Marshal Lord Montgomery of Alamein was gay, but whether he was a repressed paedophile.Britain's most famous wartime general has been outed as a repressed homosexual who had "quasi love affairs" with boys and men, according to a new book.
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  2773. Still blowing snot bubbles I see.Johnny if you behave the nurses will remove your ankle monitor so you can go out into the court yard.
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  2774. If it wasn't for the looming Russian threat Ike would have told the crown to send Monty to the home you reside at Burns.That little disturbance at Dunkirk cost the crown almost all of it's hardware.That's why Winston was at the White House the night Tobruk fell pleading for food,fuel,tanks,trucks,men,material .Your propaganda would put Goebbles and Molotov to shame,anyone here can look up the best WWII Historians and discern for themselves .The only thing left was sling shots and boomerangs at least Monty got the boys in shape by running/swimming away - The John Burns Brigade IKE put Simpson's 9th Army in France to ensure there'd be no more Dunkirks.IKE put Hodges 1st Army there to ensure there'd be no more Singapores .See he cared for the once glorious Empire,that's the kind of guys we are - you're welcome
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  2775. Speaking of unsightly lumps and bulges,Burns I never should have encouraged you to speak. You tripe talking troll write down what you know. That should leave you with a plenty of free time.The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror.And the Krauts with incredible Joy
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  2776. @Answer Questions Nice job but we are responding to an ebola chimp(Burns) who appears to have found a poppy field .It would have been nice if The Auk,O'Connor or Slim would have been called up to lead 21st Army Group
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  2777. Burns you must stop hiding behind the drapes waiting for every passing comment on youtube - see the Vicar perhaps he can help
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  2778. Burns is not only a dim bulb but history and him are but a fleeting acquiantance.Simply put he makes shit up hoping someone as lopsided as himself will believe it
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  2779. I love a quiz .So tell me, how come theGermans were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT do the same ?Not in September, not in October and not in November,NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944.Probably because unlike Monty ,Model was an actuall Field Marshall. And Puddles they call XXX corp the Burns Brigade - for all the faffing,tea drinking walk abouts.Not their fault the rancid runt Monty hid away while everyone else fought.Even Carrington tried it for a second or two
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  2780. John Burns bellowed: If the 82nd had not failed in securing the bridge, the ride between would have been a breeze. -------------------------------------------------------- Clean Monty's cack out of your eyes, Geronimo is right you think a battlefield is flat like the coloring books on your coffee table that you source. You again have displayed your extraordinary capacity not to think. From - 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 194 both the 82nd Airborne and British Guards Armored were aware they were up against seasoned SS troops of about 500 that held the road held the road bridge.They were supported by an 88 mm gun on the traffic circle and 4 - 47 mm and a 37 mm with mortars in the Hunner Park. SS Capt.Schwappacher was supproting battle groups "when ever the enemy was ready to advance onto the bridge we hit them with the full impact of an artillary barrage which immediately halted the attacks where upon out infantry,reinforced were ble to to maintain their positions From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here,Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth. From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 227 Gavin's CoS thought that the task of the 82nd called for 2 divisions not one .It was difficult and risky to 1st secure the LZ,Gavin'e essential task then attempt to capture the Nijmegen Road Bridge,the grave Bridge and at least one other bridge over the Maas-Waal Canal.Gavin did try to strike out on D-Day for the Nijmegen Bridge.They had to be recalled owing to the threats on the heights and need to retake the LZ,parts of which were occupied by German Troops
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  2781.  @johnburns4017  Oh poor puddles your very robust theories are getting swatted down again - like flies at a picnic. Do try to keep up even the Germans themselves concur with the 82nd's log time From 'It Never Snows in September' by Robert J.Kershaw,map reference pages 192-193 The German Defense of Nijmegan 17-20 September 1944 The KampfgruppeHenke initially established a line of defense outposts based on the two traffic circles south of the railway and road bridges on 17 September.The 10SS Kampfgruppe Reinhold arrived and established the triangular defense with Euling on the road bridge,Henke and other units defending the approaches of the railway bridge,and his own Kampfgruppe on the home bank in the village of Lent.A surprise assault river crossing by the U.S. 3/504 combined with a tank assault on the road bridge on 20 September unhinged the defense. The Waal had been secured by 1900.There was nothing further barring the road to Arnhem 17 kilometers to the North So you see Johnny,probably not no matter what the 82nd does Guards Armoured/Carrington doesn't get there any sooner than the 3rd day @ 7:00 PM - it almost dark,then they sat.Even thought they were guilty of faffing about - it was still Monty's pathetic plan and IKE getting an attack of the stupids for approving it
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  2782.  @johnlucas8479  there are at least 1 provable lie a page in that book,according to people who have read it.The guy was aphotographer,definitely not peer reviewed.Burns access that book a lot because the revision gets Monty off of the hook
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  2783. @Answer Questions wrote: why would they show up to find out the situation? ------------------------------------------------------- .Great find and insight of course it means nothing to the Methane cloud over the retention pond BURNS.The Guards probably needed to look no further than the Operational Orders
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  2784. John Burns babbled:if US units had not failed in seizing their vital bridges. ------------------------------------------------------- Had Vandeluer and Horrocks on the 17th not waited until the planes flew over at 2:00 PM then stop at 6:00 PM that night with plenty of daylight left.Perhaps they arrive earlier but Joey was caught by a fire with some reporter tart sipping wine - he even admitted it.And Horrocks prattled on about night attacks but he never really attempted it.Horrocks watched and called the 82nds Waal River Crossing the boldest act he'd seen in the whole of the War.As General Dempsey had said "Not trying was a big problem in the 21st Army" 101st AB Division Objectives -Eindoven -Son Bridge -St Oedenrode Bridge -Veghel Road and Rail Bridges -Wooded Areas 1st AB Division Objectives -Arnhem -Arnhem Road Bridge -Pontoon Bridge -Railway Bridge -Wooded Areas 82nd AB Division Objectives -Nijmegen -Hueman Bridge -Malden Bridge -Hatert Bridge -Honinghutie Road & Rail Bridge -Grave Bridge -Nijmegen Road and Rail Bridges -Groesbeek Heights DZ/LZ The 82nd had the most objectives spread widest apart Read Buckingham's Fine 500 page Arnhem.Burns you'll need your handler at the home there to read it for you it being concise and not a coloring book.
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  2785. Burns have you been spinning your Wham discs and spooning with your Monty Doll again? I understand you're Dizzy because the tables have been turned.
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  2786. From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed.*Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding*"a bad mistake on my part"* Not only did Brooke,Tedder and Ramsay all point right at Monty, he admitted it ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp*
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  2787.  @johnburns4017  It's Friday Puddles put on your "WHO FARTED" shirt and head out.And get that head wound looked at
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  2788. I love a quiz .So tell me, how come theGermans were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT do the same ?Not in September, not in October and not in November,NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944.Probably because unlike Monty ,Model was an actuall Field Marshall. And Puddles they call XXX corp the Burns Brigade - for all the faffing,tea drinking walk abouts.Not their fault the rancid runt Monty hid away while everyone else fought.Even Carrington tried it for a second or two
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  2789. seth 1422 wrote One of the strangest things about MG is that it didn’t really go anywhere --------------------------------------- That's why Burns liked it - it's alot like himself
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  2790. Burns you got played like a cheap violin.Get it together kid. Grow up. Get a life. Stop being a burden on society.Like Seth said before - you have again displayed your extraordinary capacity to not think
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  2791. Monty shit the bed he ignored opening a port and sold IKE & SHAEF on the Bridges which fails miserably,which brought hell down on the average allied foot soldier.Then the asshole got scarce because he did not want to face much better officers who hated his guts and told him so - he would have been shot in the Russian Army
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  2792. Oh like the blowholes I'm responding to?Fiction novelists is what they are
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  2793. Cornell and Villa ass have been pulling history from their ample backside for quite some time
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  2794.  @walterm140  yes much better sources
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  2795. Burns isn't the anniversery of Dunking,err,I mean Dunkirk coming around? Good thing your family of Warriors was on the swim team - it could have been catastrophic.Say what?They never left the farm,taking care of the sheep and all
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  2796. Burns go ahead and jump in maybe Monty will be by to give you a good scrubbing - would you like that link again, Lucian?
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  2797. Lucian what so called Field Marshall think real hard or ask your handler did not come across his own channel for 4 full yrs or show up for his own operation at Arnhem .Read the book "Full Monty" for your answer
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  2798. Rub-a-dub-dub,Monty and Burns in the tub
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  2799. From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page407 Churchill had cabled Montgomery "I greatly fear the dwindling of the British Army is a factor in France as it will affect our right to express our opinion upon strategic and other matters" From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,633 "I felt" one Frenchman wrote in watching the Yanks make war,"as if the Americans were digging the Panama Canal right through the German Army." What Churchill called the American "prodigy of organization" had shipped 18 million tons of war supplies to Europe,equivalent to the cargo in 3,600 Liberty Ships oe 181,000 rail cars from 800,000 military vehicles to footwear.U.S munitions plants had turned out 40 Billion small arms ammunition,56 million grenades,500 million machine gun bullets & 23 million artillary rounds. By 1945 the USA had built 2/3rds of all ships afloat and was making half of all manufactured goods in the world including half of all armaments.The enemy was crushed by logistical brilliance,yet the War absorbed barely 1/3rd of American gross domestic product. Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,pages 196-97 Montgomery was the main reason the Americans were stretched in the Ardennes.16 U.S. divisions were sent north of the Ardennes to compensate for manpower shortages within the 21st Army Group. It was similar to Carentan,the Americans were again asked to shoulder the burden of offensive warfare in a sector that had been reserved for his majesty's forces.Or as one American writer recalled Monty was judging 1st Army by the standards of the British 2nd Army,which had barely moved from November 7th to February 8th As a result only 4 U.S.Divisions were strung out in the Ardennes Sector .While in the north Monty accumulated 31 divisions 15 British/Canadians and 16 US From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 116 Britain's war effort even after just one year of conflict - had placed an intolerable burden upon her finances and her future was now in the hands of The United States of America.Without American aid and assistance above and beyond the commercial basis of "cash and carry",Britain would not be able to continue the War. From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 454 By April 1945 the 61 American divisions formed the bulk of the Allied Armies,supported by 13 British,11 French,5 Canadian and one Polish.While Britain was now a significant ally amongst many,the United States emergence as a superpower was now all but complete
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  2800. Your Empire or the POMS always fight to last colonial, usually Australians
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  2801. Why did Monty cross the road
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  2802. Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops .At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 370 German Generals thought Montgomery was wrong to to demand the main concentration of forces under his command in the north .Like Patton the reasoned the series of canals and great rivers the Maas,The Waal,the Neder Rijn - made it the easiest region for them to defend."With obstacles in the form of water traversing it from east to west" wrote General von Zagen,"the terrain offers good possibilities to hold on to positions". General Eberbach whom the British had captured,was recorded telling other generals in captivity:"the whole of their main effort is wrong.The traditional gateway is through the Saar" The Saar is where Montgomery had demanded that Patton's 3rd Army be halted From Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp.He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein "I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily" said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt
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  2803. Nope he asked Monty to alter the plan and the runt wouldn't the RAF wasn't doing a drop next to Arnhem for fear of the 88's
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  2804. Instead of covering Monty's behind like this place
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  2805. Urquhart was a good man and confirmed what the Dutch underground and dispatches intercepted by ULTRA
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  2806. who are you and what have you done with Nick?
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  2807.  @nickdanger3802  I don't get your last transmission above(sarcasm)
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  2808.  @nickdanger3802  you said Monty was ahead of some one - I thought you were being facetious
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  2809. Bernard was one of 3 senior commanders,obviously faffing his opportunity to distinguish himself - ho-hum.330,000 allied soldiers getting driven from the continent isn't establishing anything. Boundless confidence Brooke said ? LMAO you sure he wasn't writing about Manstein/Guderian/Rommel ?
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  2810. Read some primary sources that aren't from imperialistic industry of catering to British jingoism. The bent mongrel Montgomery's plan required 100% mission success, something unknown in any large-scale operation Airborne or otherwise. Failure to capture a single objective would jeopardize the entire offensive, all of the little operations within the one big one must be performed to perfection - which never happens anywhere - ever.
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  2811.  @kerrydennison7947  Alexander would have been fine.Should have reinstated Auckinleck
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  2812.  @johnburns4017  Johnny the men with the nets have received a ping from your ankle monitor , apparently you've slipped out of the court yard again.Please ring the nurses station and let them know your location. You're not OK but just where your hiding
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  2813. Sorry burnhole an uppity little nothing that tried running away but the GIs ignored the nothing burger and attacked.Of course Monty had to apologized or get sacked.Monty retreated so fast he beat your uncles - that's really moving Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb,page 409 There were many reasons why Montgomery was being effectively downgraded once more .Eisenhower had no doubt any longer that his reputation as a battle-winning commander was greatly inflated.The experience at Caen,Antwerp,Arnhem and delays in following up the Ardennes assault and the excessively thorough build up for the Rhine crossing provided sufficient evidence for that.General Whitely. IKE's British Deputy Chief of Operations,said the feeling at Allied HQs "was that if anything was to be done quickly,don't give it to Monty. Monty was the last person that would be chosen to drive on Berlin - he would have needed 6 months to prepare"
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  2814. Four distinguished British officers who fought in Holland that winter and later became army commanders believed that the Allied cause could have profited immeasurably from giving a more important role to Patton. ♦Lieutenant Edwin Bramall said: “I wonder if it would have taken so long if Patton or Rommel had been commanding.” ♦Captain David Fraser believed that the northern axis of advance was always hopeless, because the terrain made progress so difficult. He suggests: “We might have won in 1944 if Eisenhower had reinforced Patton. Patton was a real doer. There were bigger hills further south, but fewer rivers.” ♦Brigadier Michael Carver argued that Montgomery’s single thrust could never have worked: “Patton’s army should have been leading the U.S. 12th Army Group.” Such speculations can never be tested, but it seems noteworthy that two British officers who later became Field-Marshals and another who became a senior general believed afterwards that the American front against Germany in the winter of 1944 offered far greater possibilities than that of the British in Holland, for which Montgomery continued to cherish such hopes ♦Freddie de Guingand, Montgomery’s Chief of Staff confided to Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay on 28 November (according to the admiral’s diary) that he was “rather depressed at the state of the war in the west . . . the SHAEF plan had achieved nothing beyond killing and capturing a some Germans, and that we were no nearer to knocking out Germany.” Between the beginning of November and mid-December 1944, British Second Army advanced just ten miles. So now you know Johnny.
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  2815. How about the brutal truth from a New Zealander: Andrew Brown YAWNING this makes me sleepy, the Poms are next to useless whenever there is an armed force opposing them that is perhaps even half as strong in men and material. The poms' most glorious land battles have been historically fought against tribesmen with spears. When it came to WW2 Britain was so unimportant in the grand scheme that it didn't matter what Churchill or Montgomery thought. Britain had no money, compared to USSR and USA and limited production capability and not all that many men really. In reality the UK played a very small part. It was the Russians that fought the Germans.They had more casualties in the last battle of the war than the UK had in all the war. Britain served as an unsinkable carrier for the GIs during the French invasion - and that's about it. I know it hurts - the truth often does You seem to think that Britain was important to WW2 and that people like Montgomery were important characters. Wrong. Montgmery was an uppity little nothing who thought rather too much of his own position in things. Churchill knew the score and treated him exactly as his paymasters (USA told him too. British Field Marshall? He was about as important as a soviet latrine digger.)*The USSR would still have required support in material from the States. You're the worst of commentators because you're always looking to get a swelled chest and misty eyed over the perceived glory of your own fighting forces. The reality is that the UK and commonwealth played a very very small role in the whole war. You don't want to see it because history is not important to you. You want to watch rousing movies that make you think you won the war when in reality you barely had a part in it. As for Poland - look where it was in 1939 and where it was left by its allies in 1946. Do you really think Britain discharged its obligations by abandoning Poland to the Russians at the end of the war?? Or abandoning the Czechs to the Reich in 1938 for that matter - Good Grief your view is shallow.The weak, whiney, whingey, broke Poms had a treaty with Poland. Do you understand now when I say abandoned by the Poms??? Also, what was it that Britain did before 1941? Not much. There was the phony war followed by the Dunkirk fiasco followed by the Battle of Britain - the most overblown event in WW2 and some skirmishes in North Africa. Really... you've got to stop watching all those WW2 movies that like to make out that England was the brightest light in the whole war. Actually, the hopeless hague afflicted poms would have lost WW1 without the Yanks. The poms leadership was so poor that without the Pershing lead Yanks they would have run from the field of battle in ever larger numbers. The poms deserted in more numbers than any other force (even more than the French!!!!) in ww1. Spring Offensive, More Englishmen turned and ran than any other point in the war. Shameful,sad and expected "hopeless hague afflicted poms" :face-blue-smiling: HA!!! A truly cheerful & refreshing essay to contemplate considering the distortions and ludicrous attempts presented here to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved.
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  2816. lil' villa - Dave Rendall stomped a mudhole out of your troubled tart's Lyndon's arse. Even the carnival barker john burns let him be as it was obvious he was well versed and an actual British serviceman that attended Sandhurst. Where you attend lectures,go to museums and know alot - I'll have to post your pathetic remark if you haven't deleted it yet
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  2817.  @georgesenda1952  george ignore these tarts they flock like pigeons and yap like jackels at the mere mention of the fauntleroy bernard's failures . They ignore the GIs actually contained Bernard in a barn when he had his driver try to run a road block in the Ardennes
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  2818. the plan flat out sucked going up and elevated lane for 64 miles with marshes on both sides and no room for manuever was delusional.And SHAEF was against it.3 miles in Panzerfaust Teams took out 9 tanks - PANZERFAUSTS.They got 7 miles the 1st day. And that hack monty unlike a real Field Marshall Model never showed up for this masterpiece - WHY NOT? He didn't have a forward,fluid thought in his family tree and got schooled by a Master
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  2819. YAWNING, How about Allied HQ and these British Officers above Monty Alan Brooke "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow." Monty admissions of guilt - after the war of course The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, p.303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "And here I must admit a bad mistake on my part –I underestimated the difficulties of opening up the approaches to Antwerp so that we could get free use of the port." (Montgomery’s memoirs, p297)​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal.
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  2820. How about those under Monty Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: "Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. we might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine" Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02.General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Sir Francis De Guingand, From Brass Hat to Bowler Hat, p.16 Unfortunately I cannot say that I did support Operation MARKET-GARDEN Montgomery's supposed master stroke; but as I was in the hospital in Aldershot I was powerless to dissuade him. I attempted to, on the telephone; for there were too many ifs in the plan and Prince Bernard was warning, from his intelligence network in Bolland, that German armored units were stationed there However, to my telephone warnings Montgomery merely replied, 'You are too far away Freddie, and don't know what's going on' Those all of those British Officers there in real time above and below bernard in command all place the blame right on the absent idgit.
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  2821. How about the front line soldiers​ Arnhem.Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333.Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes: 'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings, p.50 Jack Reynolds and his unit, the South Staffords, were locked into the long, messy, bloody battle. There was no continuous front, no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed. We knew what even a handful of Germans could do - they were so damned efficient. Armageddon:The Battle for Germany, by Max Hastings - Bob Peatling was keeping a diary, to relieve the dreadful boredom. “I am getting fed up with hearing German voices,” he wrote. "There is no noise of any firing whatever. I can’t make it out. Field-Marshal Montgomery has dropped a clanger at Arnhem* Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.” Leo Major, the most decorated Canadian soldier of WWII From the Ottawa Citizen,May 7th ,2005 Mr. Major less than charitable to Field Marshall Bernard Montgomery, who headed up British and Canadian forces. Field Marshall Montgomery's ill-fated thrust deep into occupied Holland in the fall of 1944, a paratroop attack on river crossings, was an utter failure and undertaken at the expense of a broad steady advance. That delayed the the liberation of the country's biggest cities, Mr. Major figures, and condemned their populace to slow starvation through the infamous "Hunger Winter" that took the lives of 20,000 Dutch civilians Pte. Major had an opportunity to express his displeasure with Field Marshall Monty soon afterward. It was during the battle for Scheldt, an estuary guarding the Belgian port of Antwerp. The exploit was supposed to win him a field decoration directly from the hands of Field Marshall Montgomery, but Pte. Major couldn't bring himself to accept. "He had made an awful mistake. I didn't like him at all." Losing an eye soon after D-Day, Major refused repatriation. He only needed one eye, he said, to aim his rifle. During the Battle of the Scheldt in occupied Holland, he was recommended for a DCM for a solo recon mission, from which he returned with 93 German prisoners. Major refused it because the medal would be awarded by Field Marshal Montgomery, whom he despised. His reason was simple: Arnhem. Major felt Monty’s ill-fated airborne assault stopped Allied forces attacking on a broad front, delaying the liberation of Holland. Major believed Monty to be responsible for the deaths of some 20,000 Dutch citizens during 1944’s “hunger winter”. To quote Major exactly, “He had made an awful mistake. I didn’t like him at all.” Fancy some more you frauds???
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  2822. Monty,Student and Gerries at Arnhem point at Guards Armored faffing around.But Monty set them up to fail .Read Keegan,Hastings,Beevor,Hart,Kershaw - Britains best historians.Monty was even worse after the war for the descpicable things he did/said
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  2823. Burns have you kissed your favorite pedos poster today?Good to see you've broke out your Little Villa account to agree with yourself.Monty wasn't even at the Battle then lied to the Press every thing was going fine,that's how infantile you can get,ask that asshole
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  2824. No Monty was getting bad news and didn't want to show his face as even he knew he was in deep shit.Even the British Officers at SHAEFF realized he was awful,terrible,as in no fooking good at commanding.11,000 go into Arnhem 2,100 come out.Arnhem hadn't been taken,The V-2 sites hadn't been touched and the Port of Antwerp had to be gone back completely over.Any credibility was shot completely to hell.He had his single thrust and demonstrated he couldn't handle it - just like Caen
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  2825. Page 331 Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen *With Prejudice, by Air Marshall Arthur Tedder, p557*​​ The situation was that Montgomery thought the air corp not vigorous in support of the immediate battle,while Air Marshall Conningham continued to be shaply critical of the Army's slow progress. I agreed with Conningham that the Army did not seem prepared to fight it's own battles.After I had talked these matters over with Eisenhower and Bedell-Smith on 6 July, *it was agreed that Eisenhower should draft a letter which would tell Montgomery tactfully to get moving With Prejudice,by Air Marshall Arthur Tedder,p.559 The problem was Montgomery who could be neither removed or moved to action. Later that day, Generals Morgan and Gale,Deputy CoS and Senior Administrative officer respectively, spoke to me of their apprehensions about the slow pace of the Army's advance With Prejudice,by Air Marshall Arthur Tedder,p.562-63 Our 3 Armored Divisions, the 11th,7th, and Guards , had been counter attacked from several directions and the advance came to a halt.On 20 July . I spoke to Portal about the Army's failure. We were in agreement regarding Montgomery as the cause D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,page 263-264 The slowness of Monty's attack in Normandy was one of Ike's chief concerns. Eisenhower even had spoken to Churchill about it while the battle was in full swing. Air Chief Marshall Tedder and Air Marshall Coningham even discussed the possibility of having Montgomery relieved . Conningham who commanded the Tactical Air Force supporting 21st Army Group,had loathed Montgomery since the North African campaign.He had never been able to forgive Montgomery's compulsion to take all the credit Now they were infuriated by Mongomery's pretence that his strategy was proceeding according to plan when he had manifestly failed to take the ground needed for airfields.Montgomery's reluctance to incur losses in Normandy has long been a target of criticism. An aversion to risk had become wide spread and opportunities were seldom exploited.The repeated failures to crack the German front around Caen inevitably blunted an aggressive outlook.Increasingly the 2nd Army in Normandy relied on Artillery and Air Power. Overlord,by Max Hastings,p. 236 Monty announced during the Caen offensive that he was well pleased with the results.He wired Brooke in London "operations a complete success...he told the press his Armies had broken through the German front.Headlines the next day reflected Montgomery's enthusiasm for the battle:"Second Army breaks through...British Army in full cry...Wide corridor through German front...." ​ Churchill and the Montgomery Myth,by R.W. Thompson,p.170 None of it was true - when it became obvious a few days later,the news papers were scurrying to correct themselves. Montgomery's exaggerations did not surprise experienced British Journalists;he had destroyed the German 90th Division so many times in N.Africa it had become a joke
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  2826. Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.197 Until the arrival of 2nd Panzer at Caen there was little other than Wittman's small Panzer force,to stop the British. The Germans never understood why Montgomery failed to press his advantage. Of the period around Of the period around June 10th Gen Fritz Kraemer wrote: it is still incomprehensible why the enemy exerted himself with assaults in the direction of Caen and did not make a powerful drive to exploit the open Gap on either side of Bayeux.The enemy left a favorable opportunity slip D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,page 264 - Montgomery's reluctance to incur losses in Normandy has long been a target of criticism. An aversion to risk had become wide spread and opportunities were seldom exploited.The repeated failures to crack the German front around Caen inevitably blunted an aggressive outlook. Increasingly the 2nd Army in Normandy relied on Artillery and Air Power *My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.616 July 17,1944 The RAF had dropped a concentration of 7000 tons of bombs to help the ground troops break through the German defense ring.Around evening Air Marshall Tedder had called IKE and and mentioned Monty had stopped his armor from going any farther IKE was mad as Monty was drawing up his "administrative tail". My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.617 IKE said yesterday that with 7000 tons of bombs dropped(around Caen) in the most elaborate bombing of enemy front line positions ever accomplished,only 7 miles were gained *can we afford 1000 tons of bombs per mile?The air people are completely disgusted with the lack of progress Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb,Page 325 Monty was dismayed that others seemed to have forgotten the plan he maintained he had set out with absolute clarity prior to the invasion for all those concerned to understand.According to that plan he would draw the main enemy forces onto his sector of the allied line while Bradley's Americans on his right would secure the peninsula before making the break out.Not all of Montgomery's growing band of critics at SHAEF remembered it that way.He later claimed his critics completely misunderstood his plan Triumph in the West,by Arthur Bryant,page 243 Brooke wrote in his diary"The Strategy of the Normandy landing is quite straight forward.But now comes the trouble;the press chip in and we heard that the British are doing nothing and suffering no casualties whilst the Americans are bearing all the brunt of the war The Battle of the Generals,by Martin Blumenson,p.122 The British had only advanced 6 miles and taken 2,000 prisoners by July 20th.Their casualties totaled more than 4,000 men and about 500 tanks,more than 1/3 of all the tanks brought to Normandy This is nowhere near the results Montgomery had led everyone to expect.The discontent was wide spread many senior Allied leaders felt they had been had,taken by promises Montgomery had no intention of fufilling or had been unable to fufill.Harry Butcher Eisenhower's aide said others were discussing "who would succeed Monty when he was sacked"* The Battle of the Generals,by Martin Blumenson,p.122-23 Goodwood damaged Monty's prestige and he never fully recovered.Eisenhower was "disappointed and angered" by the difference between Montgomery's promise and his performance.Air Marshall Tedder "redoubled" because Monty had deceived the Air Forces
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  2827. In Eisenhowers unpublished transcripts at the Presidential library "....after we were ashore in Normandy we had not been achieving the advances that Monty that had earlier predicted on his maps. Mr Churchill expressed unhappiness at the lack of progress and the failure to capture Caen. Churchill came to see me one day accompanied by General Brooke.He pointed out the pre-invasion briefings and the seizure of Caen within 24 hrs had been assumed The failure after fighting to take this key city strengthened his fear that we were descending into bitter WW1 "trench-warfare" Decision in Normandy,by Carlo D'este,p.80 HQ 21 Army Group,14 April 1944 , B.L.Montgomery, CiC ."the whole of aggressive tactics would be to retain the initiative ourselves and to cause alarm in the minds of the enemy .To be successful, such tactics must be adopted on D-Day; to wait till D plus 1 would be to lose the opportunity, and also to lose the initiative." My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.617 July 19,1944Monty had a press conference yesterday at which he said that at least 156,000 Germans had been killed or wounded since D-Day.Yet in the big push east & south of Caen only 2,500 prisoners were taken. IKE said yesterday that with 7000 tons of bombs dropped(around Caen) in the most elaborate bombing of enemy front line positions ever accomplished,only 7 miles were gained can we afford 1000 tons of bombs per mile?The air people are completely disgusted with the lack of progress Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb,p. 331 Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were had put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen With Prejudice,by Air Marshall Arthur Tedder,p.557*​​ The situation was that Montgomery thought the air corp not vigorous in support of the immediate battle,while Air Marshall Conningham continued to be shaply critical of the Army's slow progress. I agreed with Conningham that the Army did not seem prepared to fight it's own battles. *After I had talked these matters over with Eisenhower and Bedell-Smith on 6 July, it was agreed that Eisenhower should draft a letter which would tell Montgomery tactfully to get moving With Prejudice,by Air Marshall Arthur Tedder,p.562-63 Our 3 Armored Divisions, the 11th,7th, and Guards , had been counter attacked from several directions and the advance came to a halt.On 20 July . I spoke to Portal about the Army's failure. We were in agreement regarding Montgomery as the cause Montgomery had in effect stopped his armour from going farther.Later I reported saying that the British Chiefs of Staff would "support any recommendation that Ike might care to make in respect to Monty for not succeeding in going places with his big three-armoured division push" D-Day,The Battle for Normandy by Antony Beevor,p183-84 .On June 11 after a meeting with Bradley Monty wrote DeGuingand that his objective "was to pull the Germans on to 2nd Army so that the US Army could extend & expand. The problem was that Montgomery partly for reasons of morale partly for pride could not admit that any of his plans had gone wrong. IT was not of course Montgomery who determined this state of affairs but the Germans who sent their Panzer Divisions
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  2828. John Burns maybe you can flip thru some pages yourself when you're done cleaning your teeth with your finger More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 ------------------
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  2829.  @johnathanh2660  The Lyndon Library has a lot of interesting views none of them actual history however. Read THE FULL MONTY,Lyndon is mentioned in it I believe. Same with john repeate above both realize hallucinations with distressing frequency - real bad symptoms to
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  2830. He hasn't answered because he only won where he couldn'y lose.The allied advantages were such that even bernard couldn't faff them up - but it didn't stop him from trying
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  2831. David Irving Burns - Monty chickened out and Carrington stopped going no further and you ignorantly refer to them as Field Marshall and Lord. I understand they are probably your family members being failures and all
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  2832. Which army went 3,500 miles to help the other army go the last 30?Johnny the men with the nets have recieved a ping from your ankle monitor , apparently you've slipped out of the court yard again.Please ring the nurses station and let them know your location. The Vicar has mentioned that you'll never get the monitor removed or out of the home doing this
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  2833. Burns your backside is not recognized as military archives.Perhaps your hero can chime in - oh here he is Montgomery Memoirs page 267 Monty says: [quote] “My plan was to drive hard for the Rhine across all these obstacles, and to seize a bridgehead beyond the Rhine before the enemy could reorganise sufficiently to stop us. “The airborne forces at Arnhem were dropped too far away from the vital objective the bridge. It was some hours before they reached it. I take the blame for this mistake. I should have ordered Second Army and 1st Airborne Corps to arrange that at least one complete Parachute Brigade was dropped quite close to the bridge, so that it could have been captured in a matter of minutes and its defence soundly organised with time to spare. I did not do so” [end quote] The Operation was approved by who?If Bernard was a real Field Marshall like Model he would have made his battle assessments and made any necessary alterations.But the dim bulb did not. So almost 2x as many flights with just under 3 less hours daylight on September 17th than on June 6th then the flights were much longer(300 miles) into N.E Netherlands instead of just across the 30 mile channel. Quit reading your coloring books.They could hardly get the same amount of flights in the same day with the afore mentioned detriments. Now clean up your room and help mum with the groceries and get your green plastic army soldiers off of the floor.Mum could slip & fall she works so hard for you therapy and all
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  2834. Sorry Irving Burns this is what happens when bernard was handed command - DISASTER!!! Even good British Officers like O'Connor,Auchinleck,Slim couldn't do much with Monty's misadventure .Attempting to shoehorn and sneak a whole column of armor up a 70 mile elevated lane with no room for maneuver against the German Army is the idea of an idiot that shouldn't have been leading a Boy Scout Assembly .So I can see why you like it
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  2835. Irving Burns Guards Armored and 43 Wessex just arrived in Nijmegan,tell them the war is over and all is forgiven. And get that head wound checked out.I think Monty's is getting a little rough with you in the tub again
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  2836. Irving Burns remember IKE placed the The 9th there to make sure there'd be no more Dunkirks,he placed 1st there to make sure there were no more Singapore's.And Freddie was there to make sure Monty and you would not be sharing the bubble bath all clear now Johnny
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  2837. Monty will see you in the channel now Boy Burny- bring your loofah and the bubble bath - fraud
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  2838. VA can only stick your nose in a history book when you get it out of Monty's backside
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  2839. Unlike you he probably reads
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  2840. ♦You think Monty could have inconvenienced himself to attend his own operational debacle that after the war he fessed up to? Largest Air Drop in History up until that point and the poof couldn't be bothered? There were cock ups all the way back to the Belgian Border and it didn't involve Gavin or the 82nd.Ya but go ahead and try to blame this abortion on an Americans 55 miles down the road. ♦ Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:30 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like they had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown ♦Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bring the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but Monty's pathetic planning.This operation is a prime example of the clownish incompetence of his command. ♦ And why did Monty and Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think while approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 4 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site ♦Why were Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September, not in October and not in November ♦Monty neither captured the V-2 launching sites, Arnhem or Antwerp during Market Garden. And the reprisals brought on the honger winter got 22,000 Dutch Civilians froze/starved - too bad blisterhead Burns and Monty weren't amongst them
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  2841.  @jbjones1957  JB you figured him out good job,he used to get slapped about attempting to pass off his novels and nonsense as history but most lost interest in working over the failed fraudster
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  2842. John Burns Barked: Read my posts again. All is there. ============================ Sorry Johnny no serious student of history would spoon feed your fabrications anywhere.Class is in session and a lesson you are getting. Have the nurses at the home there get this down and read it back to you :face-blue-smiling:
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  2843. Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout troop.John Cornburns distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved
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  2844. It still took Monty 6 months with the US 9th Army's help to move where he left off at the end of September.The Americans still advanced thru Lorainne,the Hurtgen,The Ardennes and across the Rhine in that time Unlike Montgomery forced to go back and open the Port of Antwerp when he promised he'd be in Berlin - A step backward, after making a wrong turn, isn't a step in the right direction
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  2845. It was Monty you moron he was the Field Marshall remember.Oh that's right he wasn't really - that was Model.Ring the nurses station maybe they can fill the tub so you can splash around like Monty in the channel
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  2846. Well your dissertation was Bollocks but since you lie/distort the truth to get monty off the hook a like ponce like john burns will take notes with his crayons for the crown's comics. How about actual Britsh Officers who blamed the dullard Monty and his so called plan "Montgomery Memoirs page 276" (Monty admitting his failure) "The next day, Bedell Smith came to see me the next day to say that Eisenhower had decided to act as I recommended. The Saar Thrust to be stopped. Three US Division (12 US AG) were to be grounded and their transports used to supply extra maintenance to 21 Army Group. The bulk of the 12 AG logistic support was to be given to 1 US Army on my right and I was to be allowed to deal directly with General Hodges. As a result of these promises I reviewed my Plans with Dempsey and then fixed D-Day for the Arnhem Operation for Sunday 17th September." So clearly Monty stated they were "my plans" that 34,000 went into arnhem and 17,000 came out - in 9 days - there's your hero & the culprit The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, p.303 Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "And here I must admit a bad mistake on my part –I underestimated the difficulties of opening up the approaches to Antwerp so that we could get free use of the port." ( from Montgomery’s memoirs, p297)​ A Magnificent Disaster, by David Bennett, p. 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Alan Brooke(Monty's Boss) placing the blame on Bernard Eisenhower's Armies, by Dr Niall Barr, page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden, Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer, noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary followed by an advance on the Rhine, the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. "During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. *I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place" Admiral Ramsay brought this out as well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..... "The mistake lay with Monty for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply. Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knockout blow." Foot Note: ("Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219") How about Air Marshall Tedder??? With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal
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  2847.  @akgeronimo501  I don't think so like Monty he's working on something else in an attempt to reclaim his rep
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  2848.  @akgeronimo501  no thanks reading the Burns Brigade is about as much novels as I can take
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  2849. Burns pick up your green plastic army men off of the floor - the nurses at the home there keep slipping on them.You'll not get court yard privileges until you do mister
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  2850. you delusional dweeb are your bath toys a radio and a toaster? Monty and Horrocks own it.Hey Burnhole you and Monty have something in common - neither of you were at Arnhem. You and IKE have something in common - neither ended up in the channel - you're welcome
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  2851.  @rob5944  if you contend that the British army was too small to affect the outcome then the British Gov't shouldn't have declared war. As they were driven just like the French and the rest.Many Frenchmen were taking bullets as Brooke and Monty were taking to the boats,just saying
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  2852.  @rob5944  irrelevant,don't bite of more than you can chew the same arguement applies then.Britain had a moat French/Poles/Dutch didn't
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  2853. Bull - then wait to declare war because the promise to Poland worked so well,right?Again if you say you're too small then don't start a fight you are not prepared to finish.Which ended up well - in hindsight because of the USSR/USA entry into the fray. But no one exactly knew that at the time
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  2854. Monty never caught Rommel in 1500 miles with all the massive advantages given. Did you visit him at the front Lucien?
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  2855. You love the YMCA,johnny
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  2856. Couldn't have been worse than Monty - are you the little swiss boy?
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  2857. Vile Anus you poor trampled cabbage leaf Monty was awful at commanding. Terrible. As in, no fucking good here you go 3 of the 4 Historians will tell you how bad all British https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1419 -Hollywood wasn't there when 198,000 Tommies got tossed into the Channel - Monty was. -Hollywood didn't make 81,000 Tommies surrender at Singapore, -Hollywood didn't sign a deal with The Reich annexing the Czech Republic - Britain did. -Hollywood didn't tell Britain to not cross the 30 mile channel after getting driven into it,for 4 full years after Dunkirk. -Hollywood never showed up at Market Garden,neither did Montgomery -Hollywood didn't fill ship after ship with tanks,trucks,,halftracks,men,material,munitions, planes,provisions,food,fuel for the duration of the war to prop up the crown. -Hollywood didn't promise that Caen would be taken in D+1,Monty did and finally took it 43 days later. -Hollywood didn't promise before Market Garden that they'd go to Berlin and didn't even make it to Arnhem,Monty did -Hollywood didn't give 16 U.S.Divisions to Monty's 21st Army Group and was practically the last one to cross over the Rhine with them -Monty didn't destroy 90% of German Armor Allied Air Corps did. Wipe Monty's cack out of your eye sockets you carnival barker.
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  2858. That's why his sorry ass got tossed into the channel you delusional douche nozzle..And didn't come back across for 4 full yrs and got smacked around everywhere.Europe know this that's why the French crossed over with the GIs,they knew the limey's left them in the lurch covering their withdrawal,ya brave Sir Monty.Are you his little swiss boy? More Monty victims Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined Sep 28, 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2859. Truth Bryan - ignore yippy,yappy and yahooey they are all on the same account living in the governments care
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  2860. Why would want to fudge the facts with a bunch of revisionist gamers?
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  2861. he was a master something read THE FULL MONTY,that's your hero and you are mentioned in it
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  2862. Good Post
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  2863. Patton schooled your favorite Monty in Sicily took both Palermo and Messina before the old woman waddled around. If he should have been removed then Monty should have been shot. Even with Alexander giving Monty the preferred inside road Highway 124.There's and asshole that should have never held command
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  2864. Your babble - get it sorted puddles
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  2865. From The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary.Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  2866. Burnhole did Eisenhower tell Monty,Brooke and your family to jump into the CHannel to? Attempting to shoehorn a whole corp of armor down a 70 mile elevated lane with no room for maneuver is the idea of an idiot.Not fit to lead a boy scout assembly,So I can understand why you like it
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  2867. Burnhole good men died so puds like you can shit on them 75 yrs later .XXX Corps was 24hrs late then didn't move out for 18 hrs,even the Germans said it.Monty's very bad plan are you his little swiss boy?
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  2868. Benny Hill could have won in N.A.with all the advantages provided.He got lucky and showed up at the right time.But after that his adept daffnes was on full display the rest of the War
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  2869. 1)Monty was a no show - in every army that marched except evidently yours the commander is responsible for what does and does not occur under his watch during his Operation 2) Monty or the guys right under him Horrocks/Dempsey/Vandeleur sat on their arses until 2:30 in the afternoon on the 1st day at the Belgian border waiting for the planes to fly over .Did they some how think they'd catch up? 3) Of Monty/Horrocks/Dempsey/Vandeleur NOT ONE thought to put the bridging equipment up front. How ignorant of so called veteran officers. Didn't they think going over 17 Bridges and 12-13 rivers/canals that might come in handy at some point in time? 4)Monty knew they didn't have enough aircraft to fly the sorties in ONE DAY! On D-DAY 900 allied flights went 30-50 miles across the Channel to France.Three months later - Monty Garden there were 1600 flights over 300 miles into N.E. Netherlands and they had over two hours less Daylight to do it in Now little villa find one of the aliases on your account to explain that to you. It's buffonary such as this that got your boys kicked out of Norway/Netherlands/Belgium/France/Dunkirk in the 1st place
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  2870. What other gems have you mined for us today you poltroon?None of the objectives were met 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p. 215, Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit: The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent.If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p.145 the Irish Guards were an hour and 11 miles behind when it's tanks rolled into Valkenswaard main square on the night of the 17th, and Horrocks no movement after dark extended this shorfall to 12 hours at a stroke Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,p.309 At the North end of the Bridge,Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Armored Division to push on immediately to Arnhem just 10 miles up the road. Their elation turned to anger as the growing British Force remained immobile Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp. General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." Gavin did not have an answer for him. Richard Winters said it happened to
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  2871.  @davemac1197  I read all most those you're cherry picking .Harmel was the Germans security/Intel officer in that section from Arnhem-Nijmegen .Read Kershaw's book,he stated there was one field gun there and Carrington stopped anyway.The 82nd crossed to carry the fight in but he wouldn't move - that is afact and they were all incensed. Even the Irish Guards agreed with his assessments. I don't think Harmel,Tucker,Gavin,Wilson,Gorman(German/Irish Guards/GIs) all witnessing/pointing out the same thing below(that you won't read). I'll take their word for it - they were there. Monty owns this debacle and Ike also for letting him off his leash Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,p.309 At the North end of the Bridge,Major Cook's paratroopers had fully expected the Guards Armored Division to push on immediately to Arnhem just 10 miles up the road.Their elation turned to anger as the growing British Force remained immobile Having paid in blood to secure the Bridges their ire was understandable and it was shared by their regimental commander Colonel Tucker who was overheard in an exchange with an unknown British major in a command post near the Bridge ramp. General Gavins recollection of visiting Tucker in the early morning of the 21st "Tucker was livid.I had never seen him so angry,his 1st question to me was "what the hell are they doing? We have been in this position for over 12 hours and all they seem to be doing is brewing tea." The puzzlement was shared by British Officer LT Brian Wilson's platoon from the 3rd Irish Guards had been among the 1st to cross the road bridge in the wake of SgT Robinson's troops and after an night of sitting Wilson stopped at Company HQ "as far as I could discover Nijmegen was cleared....the situation at Arnhem remained desperate.Yet Guards Armored did not move" German Colonel Heinz Harmel's view the British failure to advance rapidly North from Nijmegen Bridge squandered the last chance to reach 1st Para still clinging to the north end of the Arnhem Bridge. Because at that time there was virtually no German troops between the two points.And that remained the case for up to 16 hrs​ until the Germans were able to fully access the Arnhem Bridge midday on Sept 21st and bring reinforcements south. By halting XXX Corp effectively handed the intiative back to II SS Panzerkorps which used the time to erect an effective defense where none had existed as the Irish Guards discovered when it finally attempted to resume the advance at 13:30 on 21 September. Why the Guards Armored failed to push on remains controversial Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944,by Willam Buckingham,p.358 LT Brian Wilson of the 3rd Irish Guards recalled patrols of US Paratroopers constantly roaming through his location while "for our part" we just sat in our positions all night. As Heinz Harmel later put it the English stopped for tea ​the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake staying in Lent, if they carried on their advance it would have been all over for us A rapid and concentrated relief effort across the lower Rhine never happened because the Irish Guards remained immobile for hours in darkness and beyond as the Guards Armored Division had collectively done since Operation Garden commenced - Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.359 as LT Brian Wilson put it the situation at Arnhem remained desperate yet the Guards Armored Division did not move While the Germans used the windfall respite to organize their blocking line. Arnhem,by Willam Buckingham,p.360 The Irish Guards did not try to hard despite the urgency of the situation .Lt-Col John Vandeluer ordered to hold in place after the advance was stopped in the early afternoon .The clear inference was that the Guards had done enough and it was time for another formation to take over. Lt Brian Wilson considered this attitude "shameful" that his Division had remained immobile for 18 hrs after the Nijmegen Bridges had been secured.LT John Gorman a commander in the 2nd Irish Guards was equally forthright, we had come all the way from Normandy, taken Brussels fought half way through Holland and crossed the Nijmegen Bridge. Arnhem and those Paratroopers were just up ahead and almost insight of the bloody bridge we were stopped. I never felt so much despair*
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  2872. No what page number? I've read exactly that,the whole book twice new version doesn't change a damn thing they said in 1970s interview It is also in an interview on youtube with Kershaw in a radio talk. There was one gun they didn't change that - it would make them flip floppers like this place. You don't understand because you'll never admit - Monty Garden . Go visit his statue in Arnhem - get back to me when you find it
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  2873. Kershaw got it from the Germans themselves,unlike that coloring book you're trying to exonerate your favorite little absent freak from. I've read the original and such bullshit you spew. In England they call Carrington LORD,bernard Field Marshall - they'll probably anoint you nobel laureate - no wonder you lost an empire.Frost hated Carrington ,that's even worse carrington stopped like you should posting your pitiful opinion and passing it off as fact. This waterhead TIK had to take down one of his boards for libel 3-4 yrs ago and he won't dare attempt to write his rag.He'd rather mislead you lampshades into the land of make believe. see here none of your mysterious summaries,pretty simple even you can't cock it up 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p. 215 Heinz Harmel was to be more explicit:The English drank too much tea...! He later remarked "the 4 tanks who crossed the Bridge made a mistake when they stayed in Lent. If they had carried on their advance it would have been all over for us." 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p. 221 SS-Colonel Heinz Harmel wondered,even after the war,why the tanks that had rushed the Nijmegen bridge with such 'elan had not continued further.The Allies had certainly missed an opportunity.They might possibly have pushed a battle group into Arnhem itself. 'Why did they not drive on to Elst instead of staying in Lent? 'he asked;'at this instant there were no German armoured forces available to block Elst.'*It was a lost chance ' 'It Never Snows in September' by Robert J. Kershaw,map reference pages 192-193 The German Defense of Nijmegen 17-20 September 1944.The KampfgruppeHenke initially established a line of defense outposts based on the two traffic circles south of the railway and road bridges on 17 September.The 10SS Kampfgruppe Reinhold arrived and established the triangular defense with Euling on the road bridge,Henke and other units defending the approaches of the railway bridge,and his own Kampfgruppe on the home bank in the village of Lent. A surprise assault river crossing by the U.S. 3/504 combined with a tank assault on the road bridge on 20 September unhinged the defense. The Waal had been secured by 1900,There was nothing further barring the road to Arnhem 17 kilometers to the North. It Never Snows in September" page 306 Robert Kershaw. XXX Corp advancing along one easily defended road was never able proportionally to match the German build up,and achieve the odds ratio necessary for rapid success More specifically it was never able to push forward sufficient infantry by ground or fly them in by air,to secure what were essentially infantry objectivesThis was crucial of crucial signifigance because General Gavin's 82nd Airborne lacked sufficient infantry to storm the Nijmegen bridges before the arrival of XXX Corp on 20 September It doesn't appear the Gerries were referring to failures of Brerton,Gavin or the 82nd Airborne Yet the tanks sat-this we know. Nothing further barring the road - is that concept just a little too complex.Even left the damn page number so slappies like you can pin point the narrative,not that you'd be interested in actual history
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  2874.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  we gave you the tanks FFS you give them canvas boats. The 82nd were there with tommy guns,mortars,M-1s and bazookas ,some jeeps and artillery landed late the 2nd day - that is why the high ground had to be held. Do we have to have this convesation again,again and yet again.The 9th ss were in APCs with mounted MG-42s and halftracks with 20mm AA Guns.Also there was an 88 in Hunnar Park on the southside of the bridge. And Monty nowhere in sight
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  2875. everyone did if Monty had an idea
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  2876. No sources johnny,how is the land of make believe? Johnny ya Monty said lets get out of here but the GIs finished the scrum for the royal rubes who couldn't even provide trucks. I here your uncles even out ran monty in France - that's pretty damn fast
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  2877. You are rewriting bullshit again leaving out page and chapter,You are are going to have to come up with a lot of wonderful new lies, or people just aren't going to want to go on reading British forces were driven from Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 If the Americans were bad Monty should have stayed home and saved a bunch of Englishmen Imagine what this yapping jackel Repeate would say about IKE if he lost say 200,000 @ Dunkirk or 81,000 @ Singapore or 25-30,000 @ Tobruk but who the hell has losses like that? 🤣 More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2878. The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61 "Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us.He could have done it with out any danger to himself.Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed" Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page320 The poor performance of the British 2nd Army in Normandy had tied Monty's hands. He did not expect the Germans to be that good. But when the Americans broke the German lines at St Lo instead of turning the Americans loose on the open German flank,Montgomery stopped the Americans at Argentan and sent them North east to Paris-orleans gap.There were simply too many bitter pills on Montgomery's desk See the troulbed tart bernard just couldn't take anymore bitter pills. Churchill screwed the pooch sacking ot interferring much be officers
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  2879.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  much of it accurate, but Monty no they have it coming.Understand so many officers that he had drummed out because they labored under better commanders and deep down i believe it. How many air marshalls hated him.Same as MacArthur and I'm sure some more.Those 2 stick out more than any ten men as being not only marginal in command but narcissitic tendencies. I don't care that Monty was an arrogant prick or ego maniac,lot of them were.He was horrible as a commander.But happened to be in the desert when the weight of allied advantages were brought to bare collectively on Rommel - he couldn't lose and Auchinlech and Dorman-Smith won right before him.The press made way more out of him than his talent or operations warrented.He was neither honest or effective and took credit that wasn't his and deflected blame that was.Other top British Officers noticed this 1st
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  2880. and they were driven from the field and Monty was one of 3 senior officers. BTW RIP to 3,500. but it was just not those authors That is but a pinch of what i've cached about the guy. If Monty and Mac took a slow boat to China the war would have finished before they returned. Both were detrimental to the outcome of the war and those around them *Three distinguished British officers who fought in Holland that winter and later became army commanders believed that the Allied cause could have profited immeasurably from giving a more important role to Patton. -Lieutenant Edwin Bramall said: “I wonder if it would have taken so long if Patton or Rommel had been commanding.” -Captain David Fraser believed that the northern axis of advance was always hopeless, because the terrain made progress so difficult. He suggests: “We might have won in 1944 if Eisenhower had reinforced Patton. Patton was a real doer. There were bigger hills further south, but fewer rivers.” --Brigadier Michael Carver argued that Montgomery’s single thrust could never have worked: “Patton’s army should have been leading the U.S. 12th Army Group.” Such speculations can never be tested, but it seems noteworthy that two British officers who later became field-marshals and another who became a senior general believed afterwards that the American front against Germany in the winter of 1944 offered far greater possibilities than that of the British in Holland, for which Montgomery continued to cherish such hopes. The Year of D-Day:The 1944 Diary of Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay, p. 151 - Montgomery:"1st Army have withdrawn 6th Division - ready to launch attack to the Rhine with British 2nd Army on October 12th." (Author's Footnote p.152 - This indicates that even after the failure,Montgomery still intended to move toward the Ruhr before opening the Scheldt) Ramsay: this afforded me the que I needed to lambaste him for not having made the capture of Antwerp the immediate objective at highest priority & I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed .Our large forces were now grounded for lack of supply Had we got Antwerp instead of the corridor we should be in a far better position for launching a knock out blow The Year of D-Day:The 1944 Diary of Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay p. 159 "the Army was far behind organising as I knew they would be as they entirely under estimated their task and Monty had not given the Canadians sufficient support for the work (Author's Footnote In fact ,Montgomery had finally committed himself without reservation to the Scheldt campaign in a directive issued on 16 October, after receiving 3 "hurry up" messages from Eisenhower during the previous week) Freddie de Guingand, Montgomery’s Chief of Staff confided to Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay on 28 November (according to the admiral’s diary) that he was “rather depressed at the state of the war in the west . . . the SHAEF plan had achieved nothing beyond killing and capturing a some Germans, and that we were no nearer to knocking out Germany.” Between the beginning of November and mid-December 1944, British Second Army advanced just ten miles.
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  2881. 34,400 go in 17,000 come out, "it boggles the imagination at what the allied armies might have done to the Wehrmacht with out Montgomery working so effectively for them" One would say Bernard appeared lost but the sad fact is he never appeared at all - MONTY GARDEN
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  2882. Are you Lucian Johnny? - Hollywood didn't make that up read "The Full MONTY"
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  2883. Roddy Cavin wrote Read his book. Could not believe that he said Horrocks was wounded in Italy. A shocking mistake for a historian. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Horrocks was wounded in N.Africa getting strafed by the Luftwaffe in'43 and had complications for a long time.Every Historian misses a few
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  2884. TIK misses a hell of a lot more than that
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  2885. Um No - get that head wound looked at and stay off merry-go-rounds. Bernard never showed,busy with the Burns family of warriors - doing what? who knows
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  2886. Well Monty got drubbed at Caen,Falise,Sicily,Italy and never even showed up at Monty Garden. since 1940 British Empire forces "evacuated" from Norway, Belgium and France. 1941 Greece, Crete and Libya. 1942 Dieppe and Tobruk.What's that 0-5 or sum such.Tell your droopy delusions to the French,Belgians,Dutch and the Czechs your crown sold down the river at Munich
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  2887. Bullshit Monty you little swiss boy
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  2888. Are you Lucien Treub,so ever fond of Bernard you are.Good thing you daddy wasn't in the war bernard would have got him killed
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  2889.  @BobSmith-dk8nw  wrote First off - what are your sources for that? ------------------------------------------------------------------ His very ample,dank backside it's where he fetches all his revision from
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  2890. . Market Garden is what happens when a moron in the form of Monty is handed command.SHAEF finally realized giving good troops to Monty was making Russian generals look like humanitarians.Attacking up a 64 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout troop.Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved .And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have been.Monty won in the desert when he had an embarrassment of Riches.Not because of maneuver,guile or tactics Model being an actual Field Marshall conducted a clinic in modern mechanical warfare.I would say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all -Monty wasn't there to direct while an actual Field Marshall Model and Air Borne General Student were in fact conducting a clinic on effective modern mobile warfare -The V-2s were still being launched -The deep sea port of Antwerp was still closed that was needed for supplies -Over 17,000 crack allied Paras were lost. -The Dutch people suffered reprisals from the hunger winter in 22,000 of their citizens died of starvation and disease. -Many young Dutchmen were sent to work as slave laborers in defense industry in the Reich -Allies never made Arnhem much less Berlin as your hero bragged -Monty would not cross the Rhine for 6 more months and that was with the help of Simpson 9th US Army -Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later "My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a406861.pdf an excerpt a gross underestimation of the enemy and a serious misjudgment of the terrain.” 1 Kirkpatrick later goes on to attempt to explain the intelligence failure by saying, “In the one week between the decision to mount the operation and the attack there was not time to collect additional information on the enemy forces in the area.” 2 This last statement of his is clearly incorrect based on the Ultra messages, and brings his first statement into question. After the fall of Antwerp to the British Second Army on 4 September 1944, Ultra began to provide a very clear picture of the German forces moving into Holland, 3 the reorganization within their command structure, the repositioning of panzer divisions to Holland, and the fact that the Germans anticipated an Allied attack, possibly with airborne forces, towards either Arnhem or Aachen. 4 The intelligence information was available; whether commanders were adequately warned of the risks to the operation is really the question, as well as whether intelligence failed during this operation
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  2891.  @BobSmith-dk8nw  the Village Ass has done enough drugs to send sniffer dogs into early retirement
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  2892.  @BobSmith-dk8nw  wrote @TheVilla Aston I pointed out how this was bull shit but I guess you've got your head to far up your ass to understand it ---------------------------------------------------------------- See Bob this is where you're wrong Villa has his nose up monty's behind.Hopefully he'll pull it out and stick it in a history book.
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  2893.  @BobSmith-dk8nw  Eisenhower went too far in making political concessions to a very limited military partner.Montgomery was a 1st rate 2nd rate commander
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  2894. little villa you lying choad I never disappeared - your boy cornhole had his account deleted. of course he immediately falls right in with you as Lyndon latrine prattling the same rubbish as you. And you little bitch shitting on dead GIs while the pussy bernard doesn't show up.No wonder americans prefer the Irish Congrats you cyber psychos are passed ten years of promoting the crown's comics Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 (Lyndon TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2895. A member of the Irish Guards said the column stopped to drink tea,so did German soldiers,so did many members of the 101st/82nd.They did this with bullets flying around, no one accused them of cowardice - just being late - which they most certainly were
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  2896. That island is just one big echo chamber try reading actual sources instead of bloggers making crap up 75yrs after the fact.The 101st was at Eindhoven,the 82nd was at Nijmegen - try keeping up. Monty number one never showed up. You do understand that a real Field Marshall Model could have blown up the bridges at both Nijmegen and Arnhem - then what?Do you understand the area was not only polder marshes but also flooded more by the Germans?Where would those tanks go then - no where they would have to back up the way they came and hope The Luftwaffe who was active in the area didn't show up .Another problem it was barely two lanes wide. You think you're just going to turn around a whole column of armor around on a 10-12 ft high dike? The whole plan would be dead then/there. And the damn tanks didn't cross the damn bridge at Nijmegen until 7 pm the 3rd nite after the operation started. That has nothing to do with the 82nd airborne who had 48-51 men killed and 138 seriously wounded. This Monty hatched debacle had just 4 tanks crossing. ONLY FOUR TANKS - where were rest of the 56 ? .THEN STOP FOR 18HRS MORE.Monty never showed up for the after battle council knowing that HQ was going to blast him
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  2897. -There was a very good reason the British Planners of Linnet & Comet dismissed this bad idea whole sale. Monty getting 2 US Airborne Divisions doesn't eliminate any of those problems. As the results later proved and admitted by Monty. Brereton or Browning were not aware of ULTRA and the information of not only the mobile flak units but the 9/10 th SS refitting in Arnhem. Brian Urquhart 21st army intel officer was relieved for persistently pointing it out. IKE owns some of the blame for letting Monty have his way with his single thrust and ignoring opening the port of Antwerp that was absolutely needed for any Operation this size. The Red Ball Express couldn't keep lugging supplies/provisions from Cherbour 483 miles away.Specially after 1400 British Austin Lorries provided broke down - as did their replacement engines - MONTY GARDEN
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  2898. Because this one in particular was very avoidable. From the beginning it was known that the Port had to be opened 1st to sustain anything operation that size moving forward. IKE only acquiesced as Monty kept insisting - then he denies all culpability in it's wake. Only fessing up to fault - after the war. It's the only thing he really admitted doing wrong which was a sham in itself
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  2899. 1)Monty was a no show - in every army that marched except evidently yours the commander is responsible for what does and does not occur under his watch during his Operation 2) Monty or the guys right under him Horrocks/Dempsey/Vandeleur sat on their arses until 2:30 in the afternoon on the 1st day at the Belgian border waiting for the planes to fly over .Did they some how think they'd catch up? Had they left at day break they would have made the bridge at Son. That the Gerries blew up in the afternoon 3) Of Monty/Horrocks/Dempsey/Vandeleur NOT ONE thought to put the bridging equipment up front. How ignorant of so called veteran officers. Didn't they think going over 17 Bridges and 12-13 rivers/canals that might come in handy at some point in time? 4)Monty knew they didn't have enough aircraft to fly the sorties in ONE DAY! On D-DAY 900 allied flights went 30-50 miles across the Channel to France.Three months later - Monty Garden there were 1600 flights over 300 miles into N.E. Netherlands and they had over two hours less Daylight to do it in Now little villa find one of the aliases on your account to explain that to you. It's buffonary such as this that got your boys kicked out of Norway/Netherlands/Belgium/France/Dunkirk in the 1st place 5)And of course "Lord"Carrington sitting in his tank on the bridge like Burns on his ample backside.The Germans,Irish Guards,GIs all reported this Monty got kicked out of Europe in '40 for the same stupid maneuvers
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  2900. How about some book names and page numbers rather than your usual backside bombast lil villa? Mostly British Historians BTW The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,633 What Churchill called the American "prodigy of organization" had shipped 18 million tons of war supplies to Europe,equivalent to the cargo in 3,600 Liberty Ships or 181,000 rail cars from 800,000 military vehicles to footwear.U.S munitions plants had turned out 40 Billion small arms ammunition,56 million grenades,500 million machine gun bullets & 23 million artillary rounds By 1945 the USA had built 2/3 rds of all ships afloat and was making half of all manufactured goods in the world including half of all armaments.The enemy was crushed by logistical brilliance,yet the War absorbed barely 1/3rd of American gross domestic product The Second World War by John Keegan,p. 399 In 1944 the USA produced 47,000 tanks ,while Germany produced 29,600 tanks and assault guns.Britain in 1944 produced only 5000 tanks. The Second World War 1939-45,p.85,By Maj.Gen. J.F.C.Fuller. Britain was placed in a such a desperate situation as she must have accepted a negotiated peace with out American economic support she could not continue the struggle Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.160 "In private to Herriman. "The PM bluntly stated that he could see no prospect of victory until the United States came into the war." DeGaulle said right after Pearl Harbor; "well the war is over. Of course,there are more operations,battles and struggles ahead; but the out come is no longer in doubt. In this industrial war nothing can resist the power of American industry. From now on the British will do nothing with out Roosevelt's agreement." Harold Nicolson wrote "we simply can't be beaten with America in. But how strange it is that this great event should be recorded and welcomed here with out any jubilation. We should have gone mad with joy if it had happened a year ago....not an American Flag flying in the whole of London - how odd we are." Churchill had cabled to Antony Eden who was en route to Moscow: "The ascension of the United States makes amends for all, and with time and patience will give certain victory." An Army At Dawn,by Rick Atkinson,p.8 "I knew the United States was in the War,up to the neck and into the death." Churchill later wrote."I went to bed and slept the sleep of the saved and thankful." Winston's War,by Max Hastings,p.181-83 Churchill considered the Dec 7,1941 attack "a blessing.....greater good fortune has never happened to the British Empire." Churchill wrote in his memoirs: saturated and satiated with emotion and sensation, I went to bed and slept the sleep of the saved and thankful. One hopes that eternal sleep may be like that
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  2901. this proves further you are an fanbois spouting contrived nonsense and will stop at nothing to clear your fauntleroy fraud of his obvious failure. You have company TIK is the chairman of this cheering section that can't accept Britain was displaced on the world stage at this time obviously by the USA/USSR From the very beginning Monty had his filthy fingers in it - there was really no room for error - which never happens - in any battle - anywhere. Von Moltke's Maxim for instance that "No plan survives 1st contact of the enemy." was not only ignored but proven there. Also Clausewitz warned against marching through a valley without having taken the hills. Market Garden was the equivalent of doing just that.​ Monty demanded this operation then doesn't show up to direct it when the reality of it coming apart immediately is evident. Having only one road to advance upon should have been warning enough not to undertake the operation. This debacle required - everything to work - any one component fails the whole plan does. Mistakes made resulted in the disaster that it became, like Monty not showing up for instance.Probably all the better he didn't because a real Field Marshall Walter Model and Fallshirmjaegger Oberst Kurt Student were present and would have shreaded the tainted waif
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  2902. ​ @gerhardris this was a Britsh plan and debacle don't spin it any other way, read about the 1400 British trucks with bad engines as did their replacement engines that failed/broke down. Making the GIs solely responsible for dragging US provisions 483 miles from Cherbourg and delivering it to the British. That is why Monty ignoring opening the port of Antwerp was so devastating of a set back. By this time in the war the USA/Russia were fed up with British limp dick excuses (actually just Monty) . Do they not teach any of this or did British instruction omit it ? Ike OKed Monty's plan with the caveat that the port was needed for supplies that he ignored. Britain had much better commanders, he was loathed by British and American officers alike for obvious reasons.The single lane was a debacle and easily defended by inferior numbers
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  2903.  @szainmujtaba  YUP
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  2904. Giovanni John Burns have them loosen the bolts in your neck and dial back the voltage at the home.Hodges Ist Army was there to prevent another Dunkirk.Simpson's 9th Army was there to prevent another Singapore - you're welcome
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  2905. Even the germans placed the blame on "LORD" carrington who chose to sit it out.Unlike 48-51 GIs killed crossing the Waal.But the blame was Bernard's - Monty garden
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  2906. revisionist British bullshit ♦You think Monty could have inconvenienced himself to attend his own operational debacle that after the war he fessed up to? Largest Air Drop in History up until that point and the poof couldn't be bothered? There were cock ups all the way back to the Belgian Border and it didn't involve Gavin or the 82nd.Ya but go ahead and try to blame this abortion on an Americans 55 miles down the road. ♦ Why did Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur sit on their arses in their tanks at the Belgian border until the Troop & Supply transports flew over at 2:30 in the Afternoon? Did they think they would catch up? If they were charging hard like Horrocks had promised they could have made the bridge at Son before it got blown. ♦Panzerfaust teams taking out 9 Shermans 3 miles from the start .Bring the whole column to a halt .This of course wasn't their fault but Monty's pathetic planning.This operation is a prime example of the clownish incompetence of his command. ♦ *And why did Monty and Horrocks,Dempsey,Vandeleur leave the bridging equipment in the rear when the Germans blew the bridge over Wilhelmina Canal the 1st day? That might have come in handy don't you think ? While approaching an objective with 17 bridges over 12-13 rivers/canals? All 4 Senior British officers and NOT ONE thought of this glaring over site& ♦Why were Field Marshall Walter Model & Fallschirmjager General Kurt Student able to ferry tanks and troops over, rivers and canals under the ever watchfull RAF at Pannerden,and Horrocks/Montgomery could NOT do the same?Not in September, not in October and not in November ♦Monty neither captured the V-2 launch sites, Arnhem or Antwerp during Market Garden. And the reprisals brought on the honger winter - great job - MONTY GARDEN
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  2907. Because you are indeed a moran 🤣
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  2908.  @johnburns4017  Germans after smacking around the English - AGAIN said it was a Big mistake fighting actual soldiers losing between 80000-100,000 troops. you delusional knob are your bath toys a radio and a toaster? Because your circuits are burnt,Monty wanted to retreat and in fact almost got relieved for attempting to take credit for the GIs defeating the The same army that drove Bernard into the channel where evidently he gave you the Full Monty THE ARDENNES: BATTLE OF THE BULGE, by Hugh M. Cole,page 647CENTER OF MLITARY HISTORY UNITED STATES ARMY The failure of the Fifth Panzer Army to close the gap opened by Patton’s troops at Bastogne convinced General Manteuffel that the time had arrived for the German forces in the Ardennes to relinquish all thought of continuing the offensive. Withdrawal in the west and south to a shortened line was more in keeping with the true combat capability of the gravely weakened divisions. At the end of the year Manteuffel had advised pulling back to the line Odeigne–La Roche–St. Hubert. 23 By 2 January Model apparently gave tacit professional agreement to Manteuffel’s views. THE ARDENNES CAMPAIGN By Don R. Marsh Monty's orders were to withdraw​ farther west on the 24th to form a defense line and "tidy up the front" without taking any action Our 2nd Armored Division CO, Major General Ernest Harmon disregarded that order​ and moved to block the advance near the village of Ciney. The Recon scouts sent word that the Germans had stopped near Celles, apparently to allocate the fuel now in short supply." "At 1435 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "We've got the whole damned 2nd Panzer Division in a sack! You've got to give me immediate authority to attack!" Despite Collins disobeying Monty's orders, he gave Harmon the OK. "At 1625 hours Harmon told VII Corps, "The bastards are in the bag!" On this day the German 2nd Panzer Division trapped and unable to maneuver was destroyed. The enemy lost 81 tanks, 7 assault guns, 405 vehicles of all types, plus 74 big guns. An actual account of the enemy killed and captured was not recorded. It ceased as a fighting force. The German 9th Panzer Division desperately attempted to rescue the 2nd Panzer, but was beaten back with severe losses." Ardennes 1944:The Battle of the Bulge,page356 On January 18,determined to mend fences, Churchill made a speech in the House of Commons to emphasize "The United States troops have done almost all of the Fighting and have suffered almost all of the losses....Care must be taken in telling our proud tale not to claim for the British Army an undue share of what is undoubtedly the greatest American battle of the War and will I believe, be regarded as an ever famous American Victory".It was Montgomery's own fault that political considerations and rivalries now dictated allied strategy
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  2909. Thicko you mean the Metz the British never took in1815? From the Warfare History Network The very large thorn in the Third Army’s side was the sprawling Metz fortress system whose octopus-like tentacles spread six miles west of the Moselle and reached back another four miles to the east of the old Gallo-Roman city. The massive system, which made Metz the most heavily fortified city in Europe at the time, consisted of 43 forts arrayed in an inner and outer belt that together mounted 128 heavy guns Artillery fired from strategic forts in the outer belt had wreaked havoc on attempts by Walker’s infantry divisions to cross the Moselle above and below the city during September. Taking the city of Metz would be a challenging task for the allies. There were a series of natural as well as man-made obstacles these included, the Moselle River, a multitude of forts and a plethora of pill boxes. Patton’s army made attempt after attempt to cross the Moselle River but these fortresses rained heavy artillery fire down upon them making it a daunting task. These forts and pill boxes dated back to the 19th century making them almost a natural part of the landscape this made the structures much harder to detect and therefore defeat. (9) another reason the pill boxes created a challenge was, because of their small size. Two German soldiers could easily hide inside and shot a .50 caliber machine gun at the Allies and have little chance of being hit by small arms fire. So the GIs attacked at night to avoid that and mortar barrages. The Combination of these natural and unnatural defenses had made the city of Metz a formidable opponent for invaders for more then 1500 years since it is placed superbly for defense on the east bank of the Moselle River. As well as being surrounded by barbed wire and earth fortifications that had been built around the city. Its best defense however, was the fact it was surrounded by hills that were turned into dominating underground forts composed of passageways and well dug in steel and concrete doors placed in a fashion that not only concealed them but protected them from artillery fire.
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  2910. Mikey You are simply a fanboy continually ignoring military logic. Unlike Monty in the Netherlands who took 6 more months to cross the Rhine. Where he had to go back and open up the port of Antwerp on November 28th - There was simply no bypassing of Lorraign or METZ. Patton wasn't going to leave 90,000 Landsers behind him at Metz that fell to 3rd Army.General De Gaulle, but most importantly the French people, wanted German Wehrmacht divisions beaten, destroyed or otherwise pushed out of France. It had to be conquered, cleared, and the German divisions defeated or pushed back. Alsace and Lorraine were important provinces to the French. Go read about De Gaulle's concern about the Colmar fighting around Strasbourg during and after period the battle of the Bulge. Metz was considered one of the most formidable citadels in the world with it's 43 reinforced ferro concrete artillery equipped bunkers that were mined in the front by Gen Herman Balck. The Germans had flooded the Moselle and the Seille rivers. And the GIs still took it on Dec 13th There were no roads across the flooded plains that would support either amor or trucks and they still took it unlike the British in 1815. It had important transport road hubs and communication leading to the Rhine river. It was a military necessity to clear it of German Wehrmacht divisions to gain avenues of approach to the Rhine.
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  2911. Mikey no sources again? quizz time tell us what supposed World Power had forces being "evacuated" from Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Take your time I know it's a tough one' Hint they have a channel named after them and it took monty 4 yrs to cross it
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  2912. no he's right monty was ass never came back across the channel until the Big Boys got involved. 30 freakin' miles,4 yrs ya Field Marshall :face-blue-smiling:. "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. "I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."
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  2913.  @kingdaviYT049  Great Post Lee and so true
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  2914. Burns you pinhead you've been deleting posts everywhere afraid someone is watching
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  2915. you should instead of talking about it but the content never jibes with your novels. Go ask the Czechs,Poles or the rest of Europe how majestic your Empire the Sun Never set on was
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  2916. Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts p.91 Australian PM John Curtain was disagreeing with British proposals for defending Australia. Which Curtin thought needed to be done by Australian troops presently fighting for the British in North Africa Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts p.156​ American assistance was thus vital to prevent Japan taking control of the Western Indian Ocean. *Churchill agreed acknowledging that Britain "was unable to cope unaided" with the Japanese threat there Australian Financial Review John Curtin, the leader who turned Australia to the United States The contempt shown for Britain's much-bruited naval prowess was epitomised by Japanese torpedo bombers destroying HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse in a matter of 10 minutes off the cost of Malaya as the Japanese infantry overpowered all before it. In response, Curtin put the nation on a total war footing and there were warnings of invasion. At the same time, he memorably wrote in the Melbourne Herald: "Without any inhibitions of any kind, I make it quite clear that Australia looks to America, free of any pangs as to our traditional links or kinship with Britain." "We know the problems that Britain faces. We know the dangers of dispersal of strength but we know, too, that Australia can go and Britain can still hold on. We are, therefore, determined that Australia shall not go, and we shall exert all our energies towards the shaping of a plan, with the United States as its keystone, which will give to our country some confidence of being able to hold out until the tide of battle swings against the enemy."
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  2917. your new attempts at slithering about are no more successful than your previous ones. Here Johnnie from the head of Defense Studies at King's College London - No Kidding,you no souce slappie Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 454 By April 1945 the 61 American divisions formed the bulk of the Allied Armies,supported by 13 British,11 French,5 Canadian and one Polish. While Britain was now a significant ally amongst many,the United States emergence as a superpower was now all but complete p.91 Australian PM John Curtain was disagreeing with British proposals for defending Australia.Which Curtin thought needed to be done by Australian troops presently fighting in North Africa p.137 The British desperately needed very substantial American Forces in the British Isles to protect them against a German Invasion should the Soviet Union suddenly collapse p.149 Air Chief Marshall Portal reminisced to Chester Wilmot "the Americans had tremendous confidence in their own troops and by and large the confidence was justified for they did lean very quickly once they got into action-far more quickly than our lads did and once they got experience fought extremely well p.156 American assistance was thus vital to prevent Japan taking control of the Western Indian Ocean. Churchill agreed acknowledging that Britain "was unable to cope unaided" with the Japanese threat there
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  2918. John Burns you petulant poof It wasn't luck you rube the US planned a calculated attack actually much better than coming to aid you clueless rubes who got run off the continent.Look, you're a confused, nationalistic British guy spitting out complete fantasy nonsense.BEF - Back Every Friday,AEF American Expeditionary Forces or After England Failed As that Hungarian Poster said "Britain had a chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940. She failed utterly and miserably. From that point onward, whatever Britain does and regardless of what happens to her - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US (in that order)." Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts p.91 Australian PM John Curtain was disagreeing with British proposals for defending Australia. Which Curtin thought needed to be done by Australian troops presently fighting for the British in North Africa Masters and Commanders by Andrew Roberts p.156​ American assistance was thus vital to prevent Japan taking control of the Western Indian Ocean. Churchill agreed acknowledging that Britain "was unable to cope unaided" with the Japanese threat there
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  2919. Burns get your head wound looked at, Bernard not only planned it he owns it,he only won in the Desert,where he couldn't lose
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  2920.  @johnlucas8479  his sources are usually his ample backside or altered text.And I would take anything the finger pointing Monty said with a grain of salt
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  2921.  @johnburns4017  you have been caught altering the text over on another board.4 full years your family of warriors sat on their bloated burns backsides waiting to hitch a ride with the GIs back to the continent - that we did helping the less fortunate and all
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  2922. This one's barking,blisterhead Burns souces were left,stop trying to sell your novels
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  2923. Montgomery was very much a set-piece general whose mental rigidity and egotism left him unable to respond when battles didn't go exactly as he planned.And whose skills and abilities were grossly inflated by the British press and political leadership.Montgomery who was busy fighting with set piece tactics from the last war never learned the tactics of high speed mobile warfare.Unfortunately, Bradley and Eisenhower most probably aquiesed to Mongomery's demand for the sake of Allied unity.butMonty, was lacking the flexibility for independent thinking necessary to adapt to changing conditions. . -(Chapter 10: General Montgomery's Bitter Pills, page 312) I would submit that Prime Minister Churchill and the CIGS Allen Brooke were culpable in this ruse as well, as they were committed to ensuring the press showed the British in the best possible light. Having the Americans close the Gap, could well have finished the war early and showed the British to be struggling with manpower and unable to compete in a mechanized, mobile war, -American commanders Eisenhower and Bradley covering for Montgomery in the interest of harmony in the allies camp.it was Monty's bruised ego that he would not permit the Americans (and Patton in particular) to be praised for what his British 21st Army Group had failed to accomplish.Monty's efforts to attack south and close the gap were curiously half-hearted. Rather than a full-blooded push using his experienced British divisions, Monty entrusted the effort to two Canadian and Polish units in which he had shown little prior confidence. Why? Certainly, Monty realized/resented the accolades heaped on Patton by both American and British press and the innuendo that Monty's troops weren't doing their part.When they were - it was just Monty wasn't up to the task
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  2924. Burns Big Book of British Bollocks now has a Q & A section?LMAO
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  2925. 4 full years your family of warriors sat on their bloated burns backsides waiting to hitch a ride with the GIs back to the continent - that we did helping the less fortunate and all
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  2926. Yes here it is tinkerbell,Yet NOTHING was established in the rest of 1944 .So tell me, how come?How come Germans were able to ferry tanks and troops over rivers/canals , under the ever watchfull RAF and Montgomery/Horrocks could NOT do the same ?Not in September, not in October and not in November..Probably because unlike Monty ,Model was an actuall Field Marshall
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  2927. And Puddles they call XXX Corp the Burns Brigade - for all the faffing,tea drinking walk abouts.Not their fault the rancid runt Monty hid away while everyone else fought.Even Carrington tried it for a second or two - Model being an actual Field Marshall conducted a clinic in modern mechanical warfare.I would say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all.Are you Lucian by any chance,Monty pffft!!! Splashing around when there was a war to be fought
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  2928. And the 82nd had nothing to do with the snails pace at which Guards Armoured moved up the lane.And it wasn't their fault either .Monty hadn't planned on Panzerfaust teams stopping the whole column numerous times for long stretches.Shocking a so called Field Marshall wouldn't think of such basic events how long did you think the rest of Europe thought they should wait.Specially when Your crown wanted Germany 1st then Monty runs away to the desert And doesn't come back across the Channel for 4 years.Funny it took only 16 days to leave .You abandoned them and the ANZACs in the S.Pacific anong with throwing the Czechs under the bus at Munich
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  2929. Burns ask the RN who sunk one of their own subs,good aim wrong ship
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  2930. Bullshit he only won in the Desert where the weight of allied advantages came to bare. Are you Lucian Treub - Monty lied once and that was continuously
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  2931. Hardly "Monty's memoirs are the greatest work of fiction since chaste and fidelity were added to the French marriage vows" - Edmund Blackadder :face-blue-smiling:
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  2932. perfectly legible puddles,have your handler at the home read it for you
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  2933. Pretty revolting Burns is pissed that he never got his turn
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  2934. Monty like you dweebs was nowhere around probably lathering up the lads - look that up is that why you like him? I've posted this before but you'd rather languish in the land of make believe HQ blaming Montgomery Alan Brooke's own words "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it ​ The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. He would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary Eisenhower's Armies ,by Dr Niall Barr ,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden, Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer, noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary, followed by an advance on the Rhine, the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticized Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings, Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray. That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings, Armageddon: The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area. With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers, volume IV, by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor, page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. The mistake lay with Monty, who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory, Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery; based strictly on military accomplishments, the case for him was very weak The Second World War by John Keegan p. 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary Monty Garden go over and ask the Europeans, shouldn't take you 4 years like it did Bernard
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  2935. why because some lying limey's are trying to cover their own country's incompetance.Monty had no business leading anything larger than a boy scout assembley
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  2936. the only disaster was dweebs such as your propping up a pedo that was driven from the continent. The GIs crossed an ocean before bernard could cross a channel. Monty and you have a lot in common nether of you were at single thrust dud - market garden
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  2937. Perfect for defense and Kesselring played his hand well.Not that he had to be sharp against monty or Clark.Mountian,ravines,rivers,valleys are tough to advance on
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  2938. It always did take 3 of you(same guy though) to work up the nerve,but no facts or truth to cross swords with any one .Now go take your thorazine
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  2939. Cornhole cackled Villa Aston Apparently, me, you and John Burns are all the same people haha. ------------------------------------------------------ Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013 hahaha,ya 4 complete strangers just happened to join one of the largest social media forums in the world - just weeks from each other.Say that out loud and see how it sounds There is still one more alias left on that account we've yet to find,LMAO 😂 making up names to agree with himself - sure sign of mental illness right there
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  2940. So Cornell left or rather got evicted,tis a shame
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  2941.  @MisterW0lfe  this mellon head TIK will never write a book because unlike actual historians he welcomes trolls for clicks. He would get shredded by real historians,like he had to take down one board about Antony Beevor for libel - just like his hero monty had to do with his 1st book. Fauntleroy's and monty fanbois ignoring the fact Monty NEVER showed up at the battle like an actual Field Marshall Model or General Kurt Student
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  2942. The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley Montgomery’s and Browning’s apparent combined ignorance of combined airborne & mobile armor was only exceeded by their pompous arrogance, recalcitrance and unbelievably engorged egos. It has been stated that if Montgomery had advanced his concept for Market-Garden as a young staff officer attending the Royal Dutch Military Command College, he would have been cashiered out of the course, and very possibly the army. (Single axis of attack and logistics, lack of infantry support of armor, limited maneuver room (single road on raised embankment) and bad trafficability (flat and marshy) for armor, three major rivers,3 minor rivers and three canal systems (six bridges), length of time before linking up with the airborne elements, to cite but a few fatal flaws.) The official publication of the British Army which was patently ignored and categorically violated by both these high ranking officers. AIRBORNE OPERATIONS, Pamphlet No. 1, GENERAL, 1943 (Provisional), May, 1943 Prepared under the direction of The Chief of the Imperial General Staff. In its 49 pages the pamphlet details "considerations" (read battle proven axioms) regarding the planning and execution of airborne operations. The contents of this document were subsequently further codified and discussed in greater detail in a major volume entitled AIRBORNE FORCES, LtCol T.B.H. Otway DSO, Army Council, HMSO, London, 1951 (Confidential) As some may recall LtCol Otway commanded the 9th Bn, 6th Airborne Division at Normandy. The battalion's mission to neutralize the Merville Battery was decisive and successful, for which he was awarded the DSO. When the overall strategy and planning for Operation Market-Garden are compared with the contents of the pamphlet, it is as if each one of the fundamental elements was reviewed, then categorically ignored or violated. LtGen Browning reviewed the plan with MajGen Richard "Windy" Gale, OC, 6th Airborne Division, who had commanded that division during highly successful D-Day operations at Normandy, only a few months earlier. MajGen Gale expressed serious reservations regarding the plans for Operation Market-Garden. LtGen Browning chose to totally ignore his adamant recommendations. It is truly ironic that although not classified. the cover of the pamphlet contains two strongly worded admonitions; NOT TO BE PUBLISHED, The information given in this document is not to be communicated, either directly or indirectly, to the Press or any person not holding an official position in His Majesty's Service and THIS DOCUMENT MUST NOT FALL INTO ENEMY HANDS. Apparently it didn't even fall into the hands it should have, let alone those of the enemy.
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  2943. The Lorraine campaign lasted from 1 Sep to Dec, not just 9 days, 6,657 were killed over 3 months and they took 75,000 German PoWs, compared with 17,000 casualties at Market Garden (which was more than the invasion of Normandy) including nearly 2,000 Brits and Poles killed before taking the American killed into account. Market Garden had nearly 3 times the casualties per day. Op Queen and the Hurtgen Forest battles (of which Queen was part) were costly failures, also, but the same argument applies - the period was far longer and the average losses less together with much higher Axis casualties and PoWs and they do not turn Market Garden into a success. Market Garden was a failure.
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  2944. Sorry villa where was Christopher R. Gabel in 1944.The statistics don't change tell the tale because you found a freak as bent as your self.What did he have to say about Monty not crossing the 30 mile wide channel for 4 yrs? How about losing 1,100 paras KILLED IN ONE DAY crossing the Rhine .How about giving Lucien......nevermind Nigel Hamilton can tell you all about that
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  2945.  @therealkillerb7643  talking to the guy above little villa bloviates a alot of bollocks
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  2946. Burns you bed wetter you're still here so no he didn't
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  2947. Davie your career as a historian continues to sky rocket - said no one ever. The tanks were given to XXX Corps but they montied instead of advancing. How about the Germans there in real time? Their views are quite the opposite of Davie's trip thru his land of make believe. With page number so your handler could read them to you but it might keep you awake at night. "It Never Snows in September" by Robert J. Kershaw,p,129 Capt Viktor Graebner had a mixture of 22 Armoured vehicles at his disposal,APCs and half tracks some of which mounted 75 mm guns.They represented the highest concentration of armoured vehicles in the 9 SS.All at the minimum,possesed a machine gun mount 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw ,p.141 German defenses put 2 - 20 mm flak cannon placed at the access points of both bridges (rail & road) able to fire across and mutually support each other 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw - page 143 18 september,south of Grave from Schijndel towards the station at Erde S.W of Veghel.General Student "I was able to observe a flak platoon attached from the Reichsarbeitsdienst who fired with both their 88 guns at a single American Paratroopers sniping from high buildings,harassing our attack from the flanks* 'It Never Snows in September' Robert J Kershaw,p.194 both the 82nd Airborne and British Guards Armored were aware they were up against seasoned SS troops of about 500 that held the road held the road bridge.They were supported by an 88 mm gun on the traffic circle and 4 - 47 mm and a 37 mm with mortars in the Hunner Park SS Capt.Schwappacher was supproting battle groups "when ever the enemy was ready to advance onto the bridge we hit them with the full impact of an artillary barrage which immediately halted the attacks where upon out infantry,reinforced were able to to maintain their positions 'It Never Snows in September' by Robert J. Kershaw,map reference pages 192-193 The German Defense of Nijmegan 17-20 September 1944. The KampfgruppeHenke initially established a line of defense outposts based on the two traffic circles south of the railway and road bridges on 17 September.The 10SS Kampfgruppe Reinhold arrived and established the triangular defense with Euling on the road bridge,Henke and other units defending the approaches of the railway bridge,and his own Kampfgruppe on the home bank in the village of Lent. A surprise assault river crossing by the U.S. 3/504 combined with a tank assault on the road bridge on 20 September unhinged the defense.The Waal had been secured by 1900.There was nothing further barring the road to Arnhem 17 kilometers to the North
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  2948. You realize he's a gamer and ignores the best britsh historians unlike this mellon head present the facts - MONTY GARDEN
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  2949. break your prozac in half,Monty had the largest Bombardment of the Normandy Campaign from the Navy off shore and the heavies in Britain.He won barely and poorly.The GIs let the berk tag along because the island was needed as a staging area.Monty went onto a string of failures at Goodwood,Epsom,Faliase and Market Garden.Churchill should have installed O'Connor,Slim,Auchinlech,Smuts.Monty was pathetic
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  2950. Little Villa vented As I mentioned some time ago, doubtless the remake will be titled 'Slapping Private Ryan'. ---------------------------------------------------------- No that'd be Lathering Little Lucian starring Monty - don't even have to make that up
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  2951. Oh - The Aston Archives chimes in,Here you go from a Hungarian poster who pasted you on another board not involved with the Crown's comics like this shabby hamlet. Yes little villa cross that channel and ask Europe - it shouldn't take you four full years like it did the ankle biter bernard As it turned out Churchill kept Britain in the war and she turned out the biggest loser of any participant.. Only now are you really feeling the effect of that loss. The fact that, in a way - you actually lost World War II. In a pretty big way, one might argue. What was it? A quarter of the globe? You lost a quarter of the globe? Now you're second-fiddle to the Germans again.. they lost less territory than you, in the end. And make no mistake - the Empire was the price of American help. Now you get to be their satellite rather than the Germans'... well, at least they speak the same language :) I can't imagine what Hitler could have done beyond stripping you of (virtually) all of your overseas holdings and influence. And the Americans did that anyway... so... who knows. But you hardly could've gotten off worse than you did. Second...Fiddle...To...Germany.
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  2952. doesn't take much effort to read a book - not that history interests you being a Monty Fanboi and all
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  2953. Arnhem.Jumping the Rhine in 1944 and 1945. By Lloyd Clark, page 333 Tom Hoare, who fought with the 3rd Para at Arnhem may be said to reflect a commonly held perception of OMG, (or Field Marshall Montgomery’s fiasco,as he calls it) when he writes:'It is my opinion that Monty was a great soldier, but he had a even greater ego. When victory was in sight for the Allies, he degenerated into nothing more than a glory seeker. With little regard for the welfare or indeed the lives of his men of the British 1st Airborne Division, he threw the division away in an insane attempt to go down in history as the greatest military leader of the Second World War.’ Armageddon - The Battle for Germany,1944-45 by Max Hastings,page 50 Jack Reynolds and his unit,the South Staffords,were locked into the long,messy,bloody battle.There was no continuous front,no coherent plan,merely a series of uncoordinated collisions between rival forces in woods,fields,gardens and streets. That is when it got home to me.What a very bad operation this was The scale dropped from my eyes when I realized just how far from our objective we've landed.We knew what even a handful of Germans could do - they were so damned efficient. As Bob Peatling of the 2 Para said Marshall Montgomery dropped a clanger at Arnhem Maj. Freddie Hennessy the operations officer of the Guards Armored Division which was in the vanguard of the push up the road, compared advancing sixty-four miles on a narrow highway over several major water crossings to “threading seven needles with one piece of cotton, and we only have to miss one to be in trouble.”
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  2954. The amusement continues. Monty - never has one done so little with so much and proclaim he did it all. Except Irving Burns
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  2955. This one's barking read what was left for your edification,has the Vicar been by to see you? I hope he did you're realizing hallucinations again. Perhaps he can get you out to Picadilly or Wally World
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  2956. Irving Burns they are still waiting for you on Felton's board.Good to see you deleted your posts after the pounding you took Johnny - which so called empire fought to the last colonial - ask Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and especially the Irish.Hint the same empire that took 4 years to come back to the continent that it only took 20 days to leave? Tough one Johnny so you might want to ask: Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2957. Monty was a propped up fraud who had 1500 miles to catch Rommel with massive advantages in men,materiel,Air Power,Intel then won barely and poorly.Should have left you and Lucian alone 🤣
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  2958. Ha Little Villa there's another voice of truth and reason - said no one ever.Hey Johhny reading about Churchill getting worked by Uncle Joe at Yalta, telling the taffy nosed bastard to quit stalling.Winnie explained all he had to work with was deluded dweebs and malingerers like Vile and Burns - he completely understood and explained the Yanks would take the bull by the horns - AGAIN Johnny try to asking Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 oh my still sticking to the aliases,you two are legit - sure you are,of course 🤣 This from an Australian poster Patton beat Monty to Messina going around the whole island. He also broke out of Normandy at operation cobra. Those 15 miles at bastogne was also made while pivoting in the middle of an attack on the Siegfried line. Listen, Monty was an infantry commander. He was not skilled in maneuver warfare. Patton was a calvary man and knew how to push and exploit breakthroughs. Monty got jealous, put together a stupid plan for his ego and got good men killed. Add on top of that what would have happened if Monty did cross the Rhine (the slaughter of xxx corp) and you should realize how horrible of a commander Monty truly was. Alexander was way better and he at least knew his role as a subordinate to the Americans. The British (Monty) wanted to be in charge because they had more experience. But most of their experience was retreating or being defeated Even they can spot the problem,clean Monty's cack out of your eye sockets then read some history.He planned it while ignoring to open up the Port of Antwerp,then disappeared when the pathetic plan unraveled
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  2959. Please stop,Montgomery let him slip away numerous times not wanting to risk his new found fame. Generals Lumsden,Gatehouse,Briggs all capable veterans of the Desert.All ended up getting sacked and reassigned by Mony out of fear of being upstaged.Great Book BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis,XVIII - In Africa Montgomery was incapable of finishing off Rommel even when his tanks were numbering in single digits and his plans were fully known to British intelligence BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p249-250 on 20 December LT Gen. von Sponeck of the 90th Light Division told his staff "Nobody can see any escape. The British outnumber us enormously. The puzzle is why are they following us so slowly? Time and again they have allowed us to dodge encirclement" The British Generalship under Montgomery remained unequal to the task of finishing them off. ✔✔✔*BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p.280-81* during Operation Lightfoot Montgomery's commanders were skeptical about their ability to move forward on such a forward and cluttered axis. Unfortunately their objections did not prompt Montgomery to question his own judgement but clouded it yet further. For Montgomery was a very new commander in a very hot seat,and felt extremely insecure. Monty simply dared not admit to himself,that his subordinates particularly Desert Veterans,like Lumsden of X Corps,Briggs of 1 Armoured Division and Gatehouse of the 10th might actually be right. He closed his mind to rational analysis,honest doubts regarding the passage of minefields were dismissed as mere bellyaching or a market aversion to coming to grips with the enemy. The 1st 2 days of the battle made it perfectly clear that the problem of the minefields had been badly underestimated. Along most of its front the "the congestion was appalling and the confusion considerable. The whole area looked like a badly organized car park held in a dust bowl BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p.287 Rommel wrote of his retreat through Egypt "The British commander had shown himself to be over-cautious. He risked nothing in anyway doubtful and bold solutions were completely foreign to him" BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p.299 On 20 March 1943 began his own attack with 743 tanks available to 8th Army were faced by only 73 German tanks of 15 & 21 Panzer Divisions. Also 692 Field Artillery vs 447 in the whole Afrika Korp and 1,033 Anti-tank guns against only 260 German.But the pace of operation was slow as ever BRUTE FORCE by John Ellis p.286 On 8 November when General Gatehouse& 10th Armoured entered Mersa Matruh Gatehouse suggested to Montgomery that he might press straight forward as his tanks were all fueled and his petrol lorries fully laden. Montgomery told him that there was to be "no mad rush" withdrew his division,except for one brigade and sacked him for good measure. They could of cut off The German Line of retreat like a repitition of Gen. Richard O'Connor's short cut across the enemy during Operation Compass. Evidently this smacked of too much maneuver for Montgomery
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  2960. Did you actually read ANY OF THAT - do so?The Desert War was no great work of Monty's.This is why he was so loathed amongst other British Commanders.The Navy & Air Corps completely strangled the Afrika Corp even Monty couldn't cock it up .The British Press needed a Hero and Monty reveled in the roll,pissing off the others who had done so much for the War effort.He loved grabbing the Glory at least twice later he almost got sacked.And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have. Claude Auchinleck and Dorman Smith had just won the 1st battle of El Alamein concluded on July 30th.Auchilech was relieved and General Gott was installed but unfortunately his plane got shot down killing him. Everything and I mean everything was already in place to win.They needed 6 weeks to refit and resupply. So what does Monty do - took 10 weeks(Aug-13-Oct 23) to advance​ - much more time than Auchileck and Dorman Smith insisted on and got fired for in the 1st place. Churchill was furious but he just painted himself into a corner Churchill wrongly removed General Auchinleck who argued that his men had not regrouped and needed reinforcing. Several military analysts accused Churchill of misunderstanding desert warfare tactics, saying he placed too much emphasis on territorial occupation. Almost any Commander was walking into assured victory.The British finally got their victory over a German Army and Monty was made a Hero when in truth it was a British /Allied victory. Montgomery had 1500 miles and every concievable advantage - BIG ADVANTAGES in men/materiel/air cover/intelligence/tanks/artillery. Rommel had to move at dark to keep his columns from being strafed and obliterated.In the Mediteranean & the desert Air Marshall Conningham and Adml Cunningham strangled the German supply lines while keeping the Allies supplied was paramount. Yet Montgomery didn't grab airfields or open any ports - this continued into Italy- Normandy. Montgomery really should have never gotten that gig - he really could not lose after Auchilech and Dorman-Smith lined the massive mine fields on the Ridge of Alam Halfa( that Bernard later attempted to take credit for)also shored up defense line by the Qattara Depression to the south which was impassable to mechanized armor at El Alamein creating a choke point. And it was Auchinleck and Dorman-Smith that had 2 fresh divisions moved over from the Nile Delta. Monty couldn't lose in the desert where an embarrassment of riches covered his obvious lack of leadership abilities.Monty never pinned down Rommel he simply pursued Then The Torch Landings forces included 60,000 troops in Morocco, 15,000 in Tunisia, and 50,000 in Algeria, Forced Rommel's hand as now there would be more enemy troops to deal with.And of course ULTRA was now fully operation and provided updates. By August '42 USA had sent the 300 Shemans and over 100 self propelled 105 mm Howitzers sent by Order of FDR.The 8th Army had an 5:1advantage of tanks over the AK.And with the landings 3:1 in manpower.​ The Afrika Korp was short on everything and their armor and vehicles had been in the desert for over 2 yrs. The allied supply port of Alexandria was 100 miles away,The Axis supply port was 1,000 miles away in Tripoli.Also factor in complete Air Superiority - Rommel had to move at dark to keep his columns from being strafed and obliterated. So even you can clearly see reality exists All these things came together at the same time and Monty couldn't help himself - taking credit that wasn't his and deflecting blame that was - all thru the war. In 1500 miles with overwhelming advantages Monty never captured Rommel Monty left a vastly numerical inferior forces in front of him get away None of those benefits were enjoyed by Auchinleck and Dorman-Smith. Save the Air Superiority. All of it in place and none of it Bernard's doing long before he sashayed into this mirage
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  2961.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  you are thick,they could have been bagged.O'Connor and Auchinleck just won and Monty took 4 more weeks than Auchinleck wanted.That is all fact read Desert Generals,Churchill and the Montgomery Myth, Brute Force for starters they all point it out. So did Lumsden,Gatehouse,Griggs.Monty pretty much failed after the desert because he would never again have such overwhelming advantages in EVERYTHING. The other officers knew it also,not the misguided souls in this hive of hallucination though. Just finished Reality and Myth by Sabastian Ritchie - PhD. and RAF Historian Das Deutsches Afrika-korps: Siege und Niederlage. By Hanns-Gert von Esebeck, page 188 Returning from North Africa with an inflated ego after the comparatively easy defeat of the German Africa Corps, he considered himself to be the greatest commander ever. Later information has revealed that he inflated the number of German casualties to improve his image. At El Alamein he claimed that there were more German casualties than there were German troops all together on the actual front! The Rommel Papers,by B.H.Liddell Hart,pages 360-61*"Montgomery risked nothing in any way and bold solutions are completely foreign to him.He would never take the risk of following up boldy and over running us.He could have done it with out any danger to himself Indeed such a course would have cost him fewer losses in the long run than his methodical insistence on overwhelming superiority in each tactical action,which he could only obtain at the cost of speed" The Rommel Papers by B.H.Liddell-Hart page 521 Montgomery was in a position to profit by the bitter experience of his predecessors .While supplies on our side had been cut to a trickle ,American and British ships were bringing vast quantities on materials to North Africa .Many times greater than either his predecessors had ever had His principle was to fight no battle unless he knew for certain that he would win it .Of course that is a method which will only work given material superiority - but that he had. He was undoubtedly more of a strategist than a tactician. Command of a mobile battle force was not his strong point British officers made the error off planning operations according to what was strategically desirable ,rather than what was tactically attainable
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  2962. Oh Johnny you are realizing hallucinations again.Burns go visit Monty's Statue in Arnhem - oh that's right there isn't one 🤣 The GIs took back Kasserine in 11 days. How about Norway, Netherlands,Belgium and France,Dunkirk, Greece, Crete,Hong Kong,Singapore. Oh that's right after running your colonials thru the shredder the GIs finished that for you. Tell your droopy delusions to your subservant saps in Trinidad and Tobago
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  2963. ​ @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  Try reading up as I told you, I'm not going to print page by page.Auchinleck just won with a lot less .Racing willy nilly? After Alamein opportunities abounded. Rommel was there, Hanns-Gert von Esebeck was there. Fritz Baterlein was there.Ma.Gen. Fuller was there. Patton:A Genius for War,By Carlo D'Este After the War General Fritz Bayerlein commander of Panzer Lehr Division and the Afrika Corp. He assessed the escape of Rommel's Panzers after Alamein - I do not think General Patton would have let us get away so easily said Bayerlein .Comparing Patton with Guderian and Montgomery with Von Rundstedt. The Second World War 1939-45,p.163,by Maj.Gen. J.F.C.Fuller Most humiliating of all,as Alexander Clifford points out was that the British "let exactly the same catastrophe happen for 2 yrs running.Tactically one of the most remarkable things about this brief campaign was that,in spite of British command of the air, Rommel advanced over 350 miles in 17 days "with out any air support at all" Read Desert Generals,Brute Force,Churchill and the Montgomery Myth,
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  2964.  @thevillaaston7811  wrote: He (or she) does no think. ---------------------------- Sharper than ever little Villa,thanx for sharing. And tony the air corp did that ask Conningham how much credit the butt munch bernard gave them. ULTRA,RAF, the Torch landings and american supplies saved the tosser
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  2965. Irving Burns,Set the scotch down and back away from the keyboard .Like Monty backed out of Europe What so called Field Marshall didn't show up for his own operation to fight - even your LORD Carrington tried it before stopping ? 🤣 or What so called Field Marshall didn't cross the 30 Mile so called Channel for 4 FULL YEARS. The same one that took only took 16-20 days to leave? The French,Belgians,Dutch,Poles and Czechs would like to know .You're going to have to make up a whole bunch of wonderful new lies or people aren't going to want to go on reading.
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  2966. scaley hack the XXX Corp cocks didn;t show up for 3 and a half day you knob the 82nd hels the bridge for a while the same units that defeated Frost who NEVER took a bridge. you are called Great Britain but when the Wehrmacht threatens you with annihilation, you became "The United Kingdom" They fought to the last colonial - usually the Aussies and had to escape on fishing boats 30 miles across the English Channel .Ya empire being evacuated from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 -Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 -Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Sad but expected Just go ask the French/Dutch/Poles who watched Brooke & Bernard take to the boats as they were taking bullets at Dunkerque.Go ahead cross the channel and ask them - shouldn't take you 4 years like it did bernard. :face-blue-smiling:
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  2967. Giovanni Pierre created 28 Sept 2013 John Burns created 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell created 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston created 20 Nov 2013
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  2968. That was the port of Antwerp and Monty ignored it.But TIK encourages revision on the board to get the dithering dolt bernard off of the hook Montgomery the Field Marshall,p.170,by R.W. Thompson In Early September,Montgomery failed to exploit his opportunity by failing to cross the Albert Canal and advance down the Walcheren Rd to capture the coastal batteries situated along the Scheldt that prevented shipping from reaching the port of Antwerp and delivering critical supplies to the Allied Armies massing along the Siegfried Line The Germans quickly took advantage of Monty's failure by sending in heavy reinforcements to the Walcheren area. It would take 21 st Army group more than 2 months to clear the region of enemy troops The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.213-14 On 29 August Horrocks XXX Corp set out on a drive that some conclude might have altered the course of the war. They advanced 250 miles through northern France and into Belgium unopposed and captured the strategic port of Antwerp virtually with out a fight. Horrocks admitted as much "we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might have even have succeeded in bouncing across the Rhine - if we had taken the chance and and carried straight on" There were no significant German forces between Horrocks and the Rhine. But instead of ordering Horrocks forward on September 4 Montgomery halted him. Montgomery failed to exploit his opportunity by failing to cross the Albert Canal and advance down the Walcheren Rd to capture the coastal batteries situated along the Scheldt that prevented shipping from reaching the port of Antwerp and delivering critical supplies to the Allied Armies massing along the Siegfried Line The Germans quickly took advantage of Monty's failure by sending in heavy reinforcements to the Walcheren area. It would take 21 st Army group more than 2 months to clear the region of enemy troops ​ R.W.Thompson who was an Intelligence Officer in the British Army during WWII,also lays the blame for the army's failure with the Field Marshall "At the crucial hour leadership was lacking,the decision that only Field Marshall Montgomery could have exercised for which the hour demanded on seizing options and opportunities"
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  2969. Alan Brooke's own words "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it ​ The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery. He would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  2970. you're right they took back france and Dunkirk - your head is water logged - get it sorted
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  2971. Burns Big Book of British Bollocks now has a Q & A section?LMAO
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  2972. Mikey quit reading the crowns comics,when you pull your finger out of your nose try flipping thru those library books with it
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  2973.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  perhaps,i dunno but ULTRA was sidelined for a bit and after that the build up was HUGE.the Auk & Smith ordered over two fresh divisions from the Nile Delta,They also placed the huge mine field in front of the ridge on alam halfa(that Monty used).FDR sent 317 Sherman's & 94 105mm self propelled howitzers .Plus the infux of 109,000 from the Torch landings. TWO months went by before fighting the Afrika Korp, but Churchill relieved Auchinleck for stating he needed 6 weeks,and Smith told him the same thing.Some of the new recruits had to be trained.Very bad move on Winston's part,nor would he revisit that crap decision as it would indicate he was wrong - which in this case he most certainly was
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  2974. Johnny you are realizing hallucinations again ring the nurses station
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  2975. IKE left the ankle biter Bernard off of his leash and Market Garden happened
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  2976. If IKE gave Monty a million men he would swear the enemy had 2 and he'd lay down kicking and screaming demanding 3. Monty didn't direct shit he wanted to withdraw .Both Earnst Harmon and Lightning Joe Collins ignored him and went on the offensive - he directed nothing .Monty even said "whatever you do Joe don't go down just one road" - hey brilliant.Wonder how he came up with that
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  2977. From the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 469 Montgomery hesitated,suspecting that Runstedt 'had enough combat strength for another attack that could punch through to Liege Collins thought not. "nobody is going to break through these troops" he told Montgomery"this isn't going to happen. "If the Allies failed to attack closer to the base of the salient,they risked leaving a corridor through which retreating Germans could escape, he told the Field Marshall "you're going to push the Germans out of the bag,"Collins added,"just like you did at Falaise."
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  2978. The Center of Military History.of The United States Army Battle of The Bulge Date16 December 1944 – 28 January 1945 LocationThe Ardennes, Belgium, Luxembourg, and Germany Allied Troop Strength,80,000 initially; ultimately 610,000+ 250,000 Germany initially; ultimately 500,000 German casualties: 12,652 killed, 38,600 wounded, 30,000 missing American casualties: 10,276 killed, 47,493 wounded, 23,218 missing British casualties: 200 killed, 969 wounded, 239 missing As I said Monty didn't do shit
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  2979. .Ah another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of Monty's plan Everything and I mean everything was already in place to win. -Dorman-Smith And Claude Auchileck planted damn near a million mines on that ridge - that Bernard attempted to take credit for -ULTRA became fully operational -The Torch Landings - These forces included 60,000 troops in Morocco, 15,000 in Tunisia, and 50,000 in Algeria. Also two refitted divisions were moved over from the Nile Delta - Forced Rommel's hand as now there would be more enemy troops to deal with. And there was only one avenue of approach along that road by the Med .That Pinched the Afrika Corp between 21st Army Group and the Mine Fields,shore road and the Qattara Depression  . -The Air and Naval Corp deserve at least as much credit as they strangled the Afrika Korps supply lines. -And Monty never opened either ports or Air Strips for them in return - this would continue into Sicily and Normandy where Monty's deficiencies would be exposed Had Hitler supplied the Wehrmacht like he did in Europe there would be different results as would later be demonstrated.And Monty left a vastly numerical inferior enemy to escape
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  2980. Monty was a WW1 LT who never grasped modern moblie warfare.He won when he couldn't lose Africa for instance and isn't studied at academies.He was fortunate to be on the winning side
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  2981. ya little villa so much damage that 11,000 go in and 2100 come out. Monty bludgeoning german fists with tommies faces. They deserved much better than the twisted twat Bernard
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  2982. Sorry johnny when you pull your head out of bernard's backside have one of the vollunteers there at the center for the disabled read you some history to you - MONTY GARDEN. Maybe they'll take you to go visit Monty's statue in Arnhem - oh that's right there isn't one
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  2983. Who is credited with shouting RUNAWAY 1st Monty Python or Bernard? - think real Hard if that's possible,BZZZZT times up Bernard at Dunkirk and later Monty Garden. As a consolation prize Puddles they'll remove your ankle monitor at the home and let you out into the courtyard
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  2984. Burns you're obviously dizzy from inflating your dates so just stop it!!! imagine what this Failed Marshmellow Montgomery would say about IKE if he had lost say 200,000 @ Dunkirk or 81,000 @ Singapore or 25-30,000 @ Tobruk or 1,100 KILLED at Wesel crossing the Rhine - IN ONE DAY - but who the hell has losses like that ?
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  2985.  @johnburns4017  no matter what people think of you or your hallucinations. At least mosquitoes find you attractive.
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  2986. Ah yet another of Monty's apologists pokes his head out of Monty's backside to explain why Monty was not responsible for the failure of his plans. Next time you're in the Netherlands, check out their memorial statues to Montgomery. Oh wait. One could say Montgomery appeared helpless but the sad fact is he never appeared at all.
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  2987. @Johnny Carroll More Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  2988. XXX Corp made 7 miles the 1st day because of panzerfaust attacks,they were lagging in their so called push.Idiot plan by an ignorant man https://www.history.com/news/operation-market-garden-failure-allies But the ground relief column, led by XXX Corps, had run into its own problems: The road toward Arnhem was narrow, only wide enough for two vehicles, and German infantry men wielding Panzerfaust anti-tank weapons picked off the nine lead British tanks right at the start of their advance. Allied ground troops managed to advance only seven miles by the end of the first day.
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  2989. Villa Anus Monty's little swiss boy popping off again From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" *https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml * At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway"Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From With Prejudice, Air Marshall Tedder,p.586 Eisenhower's firm commitment to the Anglo-American Alliance dominated his thinking. He handled Allied disagreements in Normandy, at the Falaise Gap and for Market-Garden the same way. Eisenhower was determined to protect the facade of Allied unity at the highest levels of the Allied command in spite of Montgomery's insubordination which was motivated by both personal and political objectives. Eisenhower's efforts to cover up Montgomery's lies in Normandy drew praise from his British second in command, Lord Tedder: "One of the most disturbing features of the campaign ... had been the uninhibited boosting at home (England) of the British Army at the expense of the Americans. I ... fear that this process was sowing the seeds of a grave split between the Allies. For the moment, the Americans were being extremely reticent and generous, largely on account of Eisenhower's fine attitude." From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor,page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease.The mistake lay with Monty,who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later. From page 19 ,Admiral Ramsey was livid that SHAEF,and especially Monty,had ignored his warnings to secure the Scheldt estuary and the approaches to Antwerp From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, Doubleday & Co.1st American edition, copyright 1959. From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944,Page 219 "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..."
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  2990. Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 319 Montgomery's irrational behavior at the Falaise Gap was also influenced by what Canadian General Henry Crerar called ".... the Englishman's traditional belief in the superiority of the Englishman..." Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 318 Eisenhower thought Montgomery was a psychopath suffering from an inferiority complex Montgomery,Making of a General,by Nigel Hamilton,page 278 Montgomery's stepson John Carver talked about his "....schizoid tendencies engendered by his upbringing..."
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  2991. Bullshit ,Monty had tried to fall back but Joe Collins and Earnest Harmon forces advanced and finished off 2SS Panzer
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  2992. Nick the same slappies who know it's monty's misadventure and they can't blame the Irish Or India
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  2993. The idea of Monty in charge of a operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable terror.And the Krauts with incredible Joy. HA!!! just more ludicrous attempts to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved. Logic and reason are frowned upon with this gaggle of squawking twats in it's shabby hamlet Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: "Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine" Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02.General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Sir Francis De Guingand, From Brass Hat to Bowler Hat, p.16 Unfortunately I cannot say that I did support Operation MARKET-GARDEN Montgomery's supposed master stroke; but as I was in the hospital in Aldershot I was powerless to dissuade him. I attempted to, on the telephone; for there were too many ifs in the plan and Prince Bernard was warning, from his intelligence network in Bolland, that German armored units were stationed there However, to my telephone warnings Montgomery merely replied, 'You are too far away Freddie, and don't know what's going on' Horrocks: The General Who Led From the Front,by Philip Warner,p.111 - "There was only a single low grade division ahead of Horrocks on Sept 4. it was spread over a 50 mile front along the Albert Canal. Horrocks believed that this could have been brushed aside and XXX Corps could have gone on to cross the Rhine"* A Bridge Too Far, p.508,by Cornelius Ryan, British and American units had Dutch military liaison officers who were completely familiar with the terrain and had studied its military application. In fact, for several years at Dutch war colleges an exam was given with the final question pertaining to an armored attack from Nijmegen to Arnhem. If the answer provided involved an attack along the main road 69 leading between the two the student failed
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  2994. Bull crap Frost lost the fight on the night Carrington sat on his ass the 20th at 7:00 PM.Major Tony Hibbert said he could hear the tanks from Arnhem but they stopped.Both the Germans/82nd recorded this
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  2995. Ya he had nothing to do with the germans getting pissed and the reprisals.Not to mention the failure of the operation
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  2996. Montgomery proclaimed the mission 90% success.Bernard,Prince of the Netherlands said later My country can never again afford the luxury of another Montgomery success
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  2997. And the world cares what you think how?And How did Monty stay out of prison for lathering little Lucian?.Oh ya his Royal connections.Fuck up move up - at least in the BEF
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  2998. Denial isn't a river in Egypt you tosser. It's not complicated there was no famine from 1939-1944. Only difference was your pedo not backing up his play leaving the Dutch on a limb.When Dutch workers went on strike and the underground assisted the allies.After OMG the Wehrmacht rounded up food,farmers,families and did as they pleased, Nothing of sustenance was going in only coming out of the Netherlands as far south as Eindhoven. With the Gerries driving all livestock in the country back to the Reich in revenge - Monty Garden cost as many Dutch Civilian lives as Reich
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  2999. D-Day,The Battle for Normandy by Antony Beevor,p183-84*​ Any thought of pivoting on Caen as Montgomery had claimed,had become impossible in the 1st few days a pattern of attrition had been established. *Monty had to change his approach,although he refused to admit this later*On June 11 after a meeting with Bradley Monty wrote DeGuingand that his objective "was to pull the germans on to 2nd Army so that the US 1st Army could extend & expand. *this rather more modest assessment was hardly in keeping with his earlier pugnacious declarations! "Inaction and a defensive mentality are criminal in any officer - however Senior He had told this to senior Officers 2 months before the invasion and "Every officer & man must be enthusiastic for the fight and have the light of battle in his eyes The problem was that Montgomery,partly for reasons of morale partly for pride could not admit that any of his plans had gone wrong.He created resentment among his colleages by claiming that he always intended to pull the bulk of the Panzer Divisions on to his front,to give the Americans the great chance of a break out. IT was not of course Montgomery who determined this state of affairs but the Germans who sent their Panzer Divisions From D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,p229 Eisenhower was fuming with impatience,yet Monty refused to be hurried and said to Dempsey on several occasions "there's no need to tell IKE" Monty liked to keep his objectives vague,so that if there was a break out he could claim credit for it.And if the operation ran into the sand he could simply say that they'd been tying down the German Forces to help the Americans Page 331 Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a road sign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen From D-Day,The Battle for Normandy,page 263 The slowness of Monty's attack in Normandy was one of Ike's chief concerns Eisenhower even had spoken to Churchill about it while the battle was in full swing. Air Chief Marshall Tedder and Air Marshall Coningham even discussed the possibility of having Montgomery relieved .Coningham who commanded the Tactical Air Force supporting 21st Army Group,had loathed Montgomery since the North African camaign.He had never been able to forgive Montgomery's compulsion to take all the credit Now they were infuriated by Mongomery's pretence that his strategy was proceeding according to plan when he had manifestly failed to take the ground needed for airfields. Overlord,by Max Hastings,page 236*​ Monty announced during the Caen offensive that he was well pleased with the results.He wired Brooke in London "operations a complete success...he told the press his Armies had broken through the German front.Headlines the next day reflected Montgomery's enthusiasm for the battle: *"Second Army breaks through...British Army in full cry...Wide corridor through German front...." From Churchill and Montgomery Myth,by R.W.Thompson,page 170​ None of it was true - when it became obvious a few days later,the news papers were scurrying to correct themselves Montgomery's exaggerations did not surprise experienced British Journalists;he had destroyed the German 90th Division so many times in N.Africa it had become a joke Page 326, Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb Apart from having secured the beachhead,little else Monty was doing was working .No one forgot his promise about how quickly Caen would fall to him - over a month would pass before he took it or how he would advance steadily to places by anything like the dates he predicted. Or some could not help wondering what was going on when they were told first one thing and then something completely different *Lord Carver commanding an armored brigade in Normandy said,"one was so often being told that the coming battle would be the break thru.Then the whole thing would come to a grinding halt​ Like Monty Villa lies alot.
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  3000. Eisenhower & Montgomery at the Falaise Gap,by William Weidner,page 301 Dr Forrest C.Pogue,interviews,US Army Military Institute,1947 On the evening of August 12 Gen.Bradley called Gen. Montgomery's HQ requesting to send Gen Haislips XV Corps north to the boundary at Argentan toward Falaise. Bradley's request was denied Montgomery's staff officer Brigadier E.T.Williams said he was in Freddie DeGuingand's truck near Bayreaux when Bradley's call went through; Monty said tell Bradley they ought to get back.Bradley was indignant.We were indignant on Bradley's behalf...Monty missed closing the sack Bradley,Deguingand and Williams argued in favor of the Americans moving north to Argentan to close the gap, but Monty would not change his mind https://www.nytimes.com/1984/01/22/books/mistake-in-the-master-plan.html By Drew Middleton -MONTGOMERY - how small a man, how large his shadow in history. It is now nearly 40 years after D-day and the Normandy campaign, but the man and the shadow will not rest. The normal reaction to a new book on Montgomery and the battle for Normandy is to think, ''Enough already - not another book on Ike and Bradley and Monty.'' In this case, that reaction would be wrong. ''Decision in Normandy'' is not just another book about the great military campaign of 1944. It is the best-researched, best-reasoned, best-written account of that campaign I have read. - The book is an indictment of Field Marshal Viscount Montgomery. Carlo D'Este's charge is that in his dispatches, news conferences and memoirs, he gave a false picture of his strategy in battles he directed as the commander of the Allied land forces in this crucial phase of World War II. Specifically, Mr. D'Este asserts,Montgomery was faking when he later claimed all had gone according to his ''master plan''in Normandy and he had always intended to attract and pin the German panzer divisions on the left flank of the Allied line,thus enabling Gen. Omar Bradley's American troops to break out on the right flank -In fact, as the author demonstrates from battlefield reports,interviews with participants and war histories,Montgomery's plan was to seize the city of Caen and then spill out onto the plains leading to Paris I was a correspondent attached to Allied headquarters at the time, and I should add that that scenario was the one most people accepted for British operations in the campaign From Carlo D'Este, "Decision in Normandy," p. 441 (Stafford Diary)Air Vice Marshal Stephen C. Strafford was SHAEF's Chief of Air Operations and Plans. He was a British Officer with no ax to grind. He also kept a diary and on 14 August 1944, he recorded this statement from General Bradley at a meeting: "He [Bradley] states that the American forces had little opposition between ALENCON and ARGENTAN and had started toward FALAISE, but had been instructed by the C-in-C, 21st Army Group [Montgomery] to halt on the inter-army group boundary Ralph Ingersoll, Top Secret, p. 190 "Montgomery, who was still nominally in charge of all ground forces, now chose to exercise his authority and ordered Patton back to his side of the ... boundary line." George Patton and others said the same thing. He was guessing that the reason Montgomery halted the Americans was a combination of jealousy and ignorance of the situation As it turned out, it was a pretty accurate guess. Continued movement by Patton would have violated the boundary between Bradley's 12th Army Group and Montgomery's 21st Army Group.
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  3001.  @6handicap604  great write up many won't except logical statements glory/ego/nationalistic pride as you've stated
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  3002. Your distortions are ludicrous postmortem to absolve the abrasive egomaniac who in any other army would have been relieved. If Monty didn't like anything he should have assessed his operationals orders and changed them.Monty planned the whole thing IKE and everyone else wanted Antwerp open. Attacking up a 70 mile lane with no room for maneuver and winter closing in is the idea of an idiot that had no business leading a boy scout assembly. Bernard squandered every opportunity in Normandy The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 281 Montgomery monitored the battle through liaison officers and radio reports.He had neither visited the battlefield at Market Garden nor seen his field commanders,he was having his portrait painted,again and seemed intranced by the experience,boasting that his likeness would "create a tremendous sensation at next year's Academy." Yet at 10:50 PM on wednesday he felt confident enough of the view from Brussels to cable Eisenhower: Things are going to work out alright...the British airborne division at Arnhem has been having a bad time but their situation should be eased now that we can adv- ance nothwards from Nijmegen to their support.There is a sporting chance that we should capture the bridge at Arnhem. In the subsequent message to Brooke,he added, "I regard the general situation on the rivers as now very satisfctory" This assessment was nothing less than hallucinatory. Despite the valor at Nijmegen,any "sporting chance" to take the Arnhem Bridge had passed.Things in Holland were not going to work out,even if the high command did not yet know it .As XXX Corps account later acknowledged,"in front,on the flanks,and in the rear,all was not well."
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  3003. I agree
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  3004. I was talking to Burns a known schill who has a peculiar revisionist slant on history,no offense intended.....to you 😎
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  3005. Burns - Monty Garden scribble your graffiti somewhere like the wall of the Center for the Disadvantaged where you reside. Again what page number you won't either. It's Friday johnny when you are are done moping the puddles at the Burlesque pick up a history book
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  3006. No - MONTY - and your relatives
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  3007. Says the knob who has been denigrating the GIs/USA since 2013 or was that 2010? Did I get that right child?Share that with the congregation how you've attended lectures and seminars and know a lot 🤣 Morew Monty victims Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  3008. .Patton was n't a pedo like swiss boy burns and Monty
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  3009. "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely....."
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  3010.  @johnburns4017  slappie from the acclaimed Dean of British Historians The Second World War by John Keegan,page 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable,since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary. How about Brooke and Ramsey pointing right at Bernard and the self righteous rube admitting it - of course long after the war The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed Montgomery He would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part"
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  3011. Boy Burny - If it wasn't for the looming Russian threat Ike would have told the crown to send Monty to the home you reside at where you both could play with your green plastic soldiers
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  3012. Burns what channel was bernard bounced into that Gavin or the 82nd never was? Take your time I know it's a tough one. You might want ask these guys Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013
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  3013. Monty like ASTON and Burns was a fine example of a bad example
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  3014. Vile Ass anounced I think not --------------------------------------------------- Now were getting somewhere, the 1st step in solving a problem is admitting you have one
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  3015. Little Villa Monty,shit the bed said in his own words they would take Caen quickly 43 days is quick for him.And only because of the heaviest Bombing of Normandy and the naval shelling.IKE couldn't keep spoon feeding him
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  3016.  @Bullet-Tooth-Tony-  that's a great point problem was monty - montied and would overule them more often than not. Roberts,O'Connor & Horrocks gave good accounts of themselves more often than not
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  3017.  @henrivanbemmel  ignore the yodeling roach Johnny or just tell the tosser Bradley/Patton/IKE were not Dunkirked and came across an ocean so Monty could come across a channel
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  3018. He said nothing like that the Germans couldn't believe the planner Montgomery was so daft - their words.One 64 mile road you can't turn around on is the idea of an idiot
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  3019. Johnny Burns have them remove your ankle monitor so you can enter the library where they may read a book for you.The have audio books for the blind or the less eveolved such as yourself
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  3020. ALA exactly been trying to point this out.Model would have just moved over reserves form the Ruhr.9 & 10 Panzers would have had a Turkey Shoot.Exactly where were 64 mile of men & material going to cross?Answer they would have gotten blasted back into the Rhine at any choke point.Where would armor & artillery reinforcements come from that would to face German Army Corp on their home soil.Oh that's right the French coast - that is some brain dead planning right there .As Air Marshall Tedder ,Admiral Ramsey & Field Marshall Alan Brooke had all discussed with Monty to open up complete access to Antwerp.Monty went for the jugular looking past the tactical nightmare that was M-G
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  3021. You want lethargy - I'd say Monty appeared lost but the sad fact is -he never appeared at all and Carrington sat in his tank while the 82nd and 1st Para fought on
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  3022. Much of that is pointed out in Official RAF Historian, Sabastian Ritchie's - Arnhem Myth and Reality and The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham. Well worth the read to get away from TIK's bent narrative
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  3023. Neillands is a revisionist and a blatant nationalist.He didn't even source his footnotes.Making things up and plastering them as facts.He wrote 90 books only 30 of on military history - a novelist who attempted to sell scandal sheets really
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  3024.  @ArmchairAdmiral-42  he wrote 90 books and 30 on history(war) he was outed on his inaccuracies.he wrote basically 2 books a year how much detail are you going into doing that.He glossed over all sorts of facts .One of the exchanges were on one of TIKs boards were the poster pointed out his many faux pas
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  3025. My bad this was Poullusens review who TIK quotes,Ill see if I can dig up the Neilands,who isn't much better.This is one review "I was a paratrooper for many years if you don't hold your DZ then hold nothing. I'm reading one of your sources now. Do you realize he lists as sources "combat interviews"? LOL Of whom, by whom, when, where, for what purpose? The number 19 is funny. Who said that? If you say some General or Colonel said so, then there you go. Neither of them would know the exact number. To them it would be a platoon. Lost at Nijmegen is easily the worst resourced document I have ever read. Like his assertion that the 508 didn't know they were going to have to take the bridge. Laughable! In their own operations order be prepared to attack and seize the Highway Bridge, on order from Division Command. That means they knew for damn sure they were going to do it." "I would take it when I was told to. My point was in the book Lost at Nijmegen the fool that wrote it, in the same chapter, asserts that the 508th had no idea they were taking the bridge. Then turns around and references the first page of the 508th's Operational Order and dang, there it is in the mission statement, paragraph two." More Sources your new genius author used. "Statistical Study" : Of what? By whom? When? Where? For what purpose?You learned much from that idiot who wrote "Lost at Nijmegen".  If the facts don't work then don't tell it all just the parts that support your argument."
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  3026.  @ArmchairAdmiral-42  i just posted that but neilands wrote under many pen names and many more subjects as a Historian he was given a 2.5 by the reviewer as his nationalism bled thru as he glossed over many of Monty's misadventures
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  3027.  @ArmchairAdmiral-42  don't care what you think he ignores many fatcs printed by much better historians with accumen - Barr,Beevor,Bennet,Barnett,Hastings,Hart,Keegan,Kershaw,Ryan,McManus,MacDonald,Weidner,D'este,Atkinson - mostly British BTW.
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  3028.  @ArmchairAdmiral-42  try Antony Beevor or Dr Niall Barr's excellent "Eisenhower's Armies.".But here you go a great 2 part docu - I time stamped it listen to the whole thing later.Corelli Barnett is in it he wrote Desert Generals https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1581
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  3029. Monty wasn't there for starters and Carrington stopped when he had the chance.Little Villa Barr has a PHD from King's College,Barnett,Beevor,Hastings have all been vetted and Peer reviewed,Hastings and Beevor knighted.And you join carnival barkers caterwauling nonsense to relieve their hero of the responsibilty of running his own operation into the ground. It wasn't his 1st time either
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  3030. Clausewitz warned against marching through a valley without having taken the hills. Market Garden was the equivalent of doing just that.Having only one road to advance upon should have been warning enough not to undertake the operation. -The idea of Monty in charge of an operation filled the Allies with almost unspeakable dread and the Krauts with incredible joy. Bernard was in reality a plodding, unimaginative,spotlight grabbing little shit "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:p.525 Alan Brooke wrote about Monty in his diary "He requires a lot of educating to make him see the whole situation and the war as a whole outside of the 8th Army orbit. A difficult mixture to handle a commander in action and trainer of men,but liable to commit untold errors,due to lack of tact, lack of appreciation of other people's outlook. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.262-63 Brigadier E.T. Williams, Montgomery's Intelligence Chief cautioned the Field Marshall that the Allies "enemy appreciation was very weak" and that no proper study of the ground around Arnhem had been made . A radio decrypt also revealed the enemy expected a XXX Corp thrust toward Nijmegen. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.270 one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in the area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches *Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este*​ from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed Horrocks, A Full Life, p. 205. On 4 September, Montgomery inexplicably halted Horrocks' XXX Corps, the lead element of his Second Army, just seventy miles from the Rhine river. In a military blunder second only to the failure at Antwerp, the Germans were given time to regroup and form defensive lines where none previously existed. Horrocks best describes the frustrations in his memoirs: Had we been able to advance that day we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. we might even have succeeded in bouncing a crossing over the Rhine Richard Lamb, Montgomery in Europe 1943-1945: Success or Failure? (London: Buchan and Enright, 1983), pp. 201-02 General Pip Roberts was rightfully more critical of Montgomery than Horrocks who as a corps commander accepted much of the blame for the actions of his superiors, "Monty's failure at Antwerp is evidence again that he was not a good General at seizing opportunities." Sir Francis De Guingand, From Brass Hat to Bowler Hat, p. 16. - Unfortunately I cannot say that I did support Operation MARKET-GARDEN Montgomery's supposed master stroke; but as I was in the hospital in Aldershot I was powerless to dissuade him. I attempted to, on the telephone; for there were too many ifs in the plan and Prince Bernard was warning, from his intelligence network in Bolland, that German armoured units were stationed there. However, to my telephone warnings Montgomery merely replied, 'You are too far away Freddie, and don't know what's going on' Liddell-Hart, History Second World War, p. 594 Liddell-Hart, although understanding Montgomery's reasoning, believed that the last true hope to end the war in 1944 dissolved with the halting of Patton's tanks on 23 August 1944.
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  3031. Dave hac what other rare gems have you mined for the comment section today you poltroon?None of the objectives were met ♦Hollywood wasn't there when 198,000 Tommies got tossed into the Channel - Monty was.​ ♦Hollywood didn't make 81,000 Tommies surrender at Singapore ♦Hollywood didn't make 32,000 Tommies surrender at Tobruk ♦Hollywood didn';t make 11,800 troops surrender at Crete ♦ Hollywood didn't make 13,958 troops surrender in Greece ♦Hollywood didn't sign a deal with The Reich selling out the Czech Republic - Britain did. ♦Hollywood didn't stop Britain from crossing the 30 mile channel for 4 full years - after getting driven into it ♦Hollywood never showed up at Market Garden,neither did Monty ♦Hollywood didn't fill ship after ship with tanks,trucks,,halftracks,men,material,munitions, planes,provisions,food,fuel for the duration of the war to prop up a crumbling crown. ♦Hollywood didn't promise that Caen would be taken in D+1,Monty did and finally took it 43 days later. ♦Hollywood didn't promise before Market Garden that they'd go to Berlin then couldn't even make it to Arnhem - Monty did ♦Hollywood didn't give 16 U.S.Divisions to Monty's 21st Army Group,IKE did. Then Bernard was practically the last one to cross over the Rhine with them ♦Monty didn't destroy 90% of German Armor Allied Air Corps did. ♦Hollywood didn't make up stories about Bernard bathing little boys Nigel Hamilton reported them in The Full Monty . ♦Hollwood wasn't "evacuated" from: Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 Greece, Crete,Hong Kong and Libya in 1941 Tobruk and Dieppe,Singapore in 1942 Want to know who was?
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  3032. BTT posted:A Historical inaccuracy is still a historical inaccuracy. ------------------------ so you and dave hack should stop posting then - your crown had 4 years to cross an channel and the big boys had to cross an ocean to get them to participate after putting it off. Go ask the Euros should not take you 4 yrs like Monty. And you have your head so far up bernard's backside you can tell others what he had for lunch Here's how my Canadian neighbors viewed the truth,they knew damn well your fauntleroys used them as cannon fodder https://youtu.be/Ms_gNVN3HEc
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  3033. Churchill was a bi polar inebriated fauntleroy,Brooke hated his childish ideas.Going up Italian boot and over the alps that was last done successfully by hannibel 2240 yrs earlier.The only soft underbelly was under his 5 chins
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  3034. The US wet nursed the failure Montgomery by continually lend him the 1st and 9th Armies and he was still the last to cross the Rhine
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  3035. The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 303 Even Field Marsahall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks,even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war,conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant,p. 219 From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alanbrooke entry for 5 October 1944: "...During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay.I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely..." The Second World War by John Keegan p. 437 The Plan was the most calamitous flaw in the post Normandy campaign .It was more over barely excusable, since Ultra was supplying Montgomery's HQs from Sept 5 onward with intelligence .As early as Sept 12 Monty's own intelligence reported the Germans intended to hold out along the approaches to Antwerp. Monty - despite every warning and contrary to common military sense - refused to turn his troops back in their tracks to clear the Scheldt Estuary From Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb,page 409 There were many reasons why Montgomery was being effectively downgraded once more .Eisenhower had no doubt any longer that his reputation as a battle-winning commander was greatly inflated.The experience at Caen,Antwerp,Arnhem and delays in following up the Ardennes assault and the excessively thorough build up for the Rhine crossing provided sufficient evidence for that.General Whitely .IKE's British deputy chief of operations,said the feeling at Allied HQs "was that if anything was to be done quickly,don't give it to Monty. Monty was the last person that would be chosen to drive on Berlin - he would have needed 6 months to prepare".
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  3036. Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.138 Brereton was not in a position to exploit strategic intelligence,and he would also have known that Montgomery had access to ULTRA and had never the less decided that Market Garden should proceed First Allied Airborne depended very heavily on Mongomery's 21st Army Group for their supply of intelligence. 1st Parachute Brigade summary by Capt. W.A. Taylor that appeared on September 13th which pointed out that "the whole Market area was being feverishly prepared for defense" - a statement entirely in accord with Dempsey's diary notes of September 9th & 10th Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p.113​ yet Dempsey writing in his diary, pondering the wisdom of the Arnhem Operation harbored the gravest doubts about crossing the Rhine at Arnhem. "It's clear that the enemy is bringing up all the reinforcements he can lay his hands on for the defense of the Albert Canal and that he appreciates the importance of the area Arnhem-Nijmegen. it looks as though he's going to do all he can to hold it." Sabastian Ritchie's Arnhem Myth and Reality,p131 Montgomery altered his assesments from his obvious desire that the offensive should proceed as planned. He persuaded himself that any threat from the Germans was off set by the large number of Airborne troops.Despite warnings from the head of intelligence and Bedell-Smith suggested that the operation be revised or halted Monty dismissed the objections out of hand ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p46 the shortage of navigators was so acute that only 4 out of 10 C-47 crews used on the D-Day drop included one,usually flying at the head of the serial.The situation didn't improve by September 1944. the key issue was lack of natural illumination,the 1st airlifts into Normandy involved 900 C-47s and gliders .MARKET envisioned doing the same with around 1,600 flights,with inexperienced and partially trained air crews in the total darkness of a no moon period would have been suicidal. Williams insistence on a single lift per day and Brereton's acceptance of it may have been less than ideal,but it was the only realistic option in the prevailing circumstances​Because of a shortage of navigators on longer flights with much shorter days. The September days were shorter and the and the mornings mistier - Williams ruled out 2 lifts in a day. These changes meant that it would take up to 3 Days to deliver the Airborne Divisions and that depended on perfect flying weather.The fault lay far more with Montgomery and his determination to impose an ill-considered plan The Eisenhower Papers,volume IV,by Edward Chandler By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished .It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies If Bernard was a real Field Marshall like Model he would have made his battle assessments and made any necessary alterations.But the dim bulb did not. So almost 2x as many flights than D-Day with just under 3 less hours daylight to do it in. The flights were much longer(300 miles) also - into N.E Netherlands instead of just across the 30 mile English Channel. They could hardly get the same amount of flights in the same day let alone more with the afore mentioned detriments.
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  3037.  @billballbuster7186  not new books,The acknowledgements,bibleography & notes are in the back so even you can retrieve them & see where they were archived from. Like Libraries/Universities/Academies/Museums/private papers that were chronicled by combatants themselves . I read them and type the valid points and cache them .So perhaps others such as yourself may learn something. You're welcome. And the Dutch under ground many were rounded up and sent to work as slave labor in the factories or the on bunker casements and tunnel sytems for the Reich. They were hardly on the Reichs side, The British Atomic program was infiltrated by Red spies during the war - does that mean we shouldn't trust the British - see how that works
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  3038.  @billballbuster7186  What other gems have you mined for us you poultroon? Perhaps you can go to the search bar in front of you and relieve me from the responsibility of furthering your education. Then you may tackle the history. The Cambidge 5 were more English than you. John Cairncross,Kim Philby, Guy Burgess, Donald Maclean and Anthony Blunt and you can toss in Melita Norwood also.Have the supervisor at your group home look them up if it's not too much trouble
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  3039. ARNHEM,The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden,by William Buckingham,p49 Major General Richard Gale who converted the British Airborne from a small group of Raiders into a conventional parachute brigade in confidence told Major G.G.Norton in the '70s then curator of the Airborne Forces Museum "that he would rather have resigned his command than execute MARKET as it was foisted on Urquhart" It is unclear if Gale made his views clear to Browning at the time
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  3040. Not so IKE presented the importance of opening Antwerp in the September 4th of Sr Allied Officers. By the 10th Monty convinced him of Morphing Comet into Market Garden.And almost everyone in SHAEF was against it for many tactical reasons. Single elevated,road surrounded by poulder marshes being just one of the troubles.IKE ok'd the plan with the stipulation that the deep water port of Antwerp be opened in the process as they couldn't keep lugging supplies from Cherbourg to Arnhem just under 500 miles. Atkinson,Barr,Hart,Hastings,Bennet,McManus,Ellis,Thompson,Beevor,Buckingham,D'Este to name just a few bring this out
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  3041.  @billballbuster7186  Tedder,Freddie DeGuingand,Miles Dempsey,Bedell-Smith did also,and Monty later admitted "a big mistake on my part" Typed these while reading the various books Monty's boss - Alan Brooke's own words​ "Triumph in the West, by Arthur Bryant, From the diary of Field Marshal Lord Alan Brooke, entry for 5 October 1944:Page 219" During the whole discussion one fact stood out clearly, that access to Antwerp must be captured with the least possible delay. I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault, Instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the first place. Ramsay brought this out well in the discussion and criticized Monty freely...." Or Bernard himself after the War admitting it ​ The Guns at Last Light, by Rick Atkinson, page 303 Even Field Marshall Brooke had doubts about Montgomery's priorities "Antwerp must be captured with the Least possible delay" he wrote in his diary Admiral Ramsey wrote and warned that clearing the Scheldt of mines would take weeks, even after the German defenders were flicked away from the banks of the waterway" Monty made the startling announcement that he would take the Ruhr with out Antwerp this afforded me the cue I needed to lambaste him.......I let fly with all my guns at the faulty strategy we had allowed. Montgomery would acknowledge as much after the war, conceding "a bad mistake on my part" From a PHD at King's College who also notes Ramsay/Brooke warned Monty about the Scheldt Estuary Eisenhower's Armies ,by Dr Niall Barr ,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden, Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign. Alan Brooke was present as an observer, noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary, followed by an advance on the Rhine, the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin. After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticized Montgomery freely, Brooke was moved to write, I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem How about Air Marshall Tedder With Prejudice, by Marshal of the Royal Air Force, Lord Tedder, Deputy Supreme Commander AEF, Page 599" Eisenhower assumed, as he and I had done all along, that whatever happened Montgomery would concentrate on opening up Antwerp. No one could say that we had not emphasized the point sufficiently by conversation and signal How about Monty's Chief of Staff Max Hastings, Armageddon:The Battle for Germany,1944-45 Freddie de Guingand Monty's Chief of Staff telephoned him saying the operation would be launched too late to exploit German disarray. That XXX Corps push to Arnhem would being made on a narrow front along one road,Monty ignored him How about IKE's/Allied HQ Chief of Staff Bedell-Smith Max Hastings, Armageddon: The Battle for Germany,1944-45 The release of the files from German Signals by Bletchley Park conclusively showed that the 9th & 10th Panzer Divisions were re-fitting in the Arnhem area. With their Recon Battalions intact. Yet when Bedel-Smith(SHAEF) brought this to Monty's attention "he ridiculed the idea and waved my objections airly aside" How about IKE's Private Papers? The Eisenhower Papers, volume IV, by Edward Chandler* By early September Montgomery and other Allied leaders thought the Wehrmacht was finished . *It was this understanding that led Monty to insist on the Market-Garden Operation over the more mundane task of opening the port of Antwerp. He ignored Eisenhower's letter of Sept 4 assigning Antwerp as the primary mission for the Northern Group of Armies And of course Admiral Ramsay who knew a deep water port was needed From Ardennes 1944,By Sir Antony Beevor, page 14 Sir Bertram Ramsey ,Allied Naval commander-in-chief had told SHAEF and Monty that the Germans could block the Scheldt Estuary with ease. *The mistake lay with Monty, who was not interested in the estuary and thought the Canadians could clear it later Try looking up Churchill's biographer Martin Gilbert who took over 20 yrs to finish the 8 volumes on Winston's life Road to Victory, Winston Churchill 1941-45,by Martin Gilbert A British War cabinet memo suggested that the appointment of Monty was from the point of view of it's reception by public opinion. Apparently that clinched the War Cabinet's vote for Montgomery; based strictly on military accomplishments, the case for him was very weak
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  3042.  @billballbuster7186  these are not opinions they are observations from the top officers of the western allies there in real time. Somebody can't realize their so called field marshall was a failed marshmellow..He had 4 yrs to come across a 30 mile wide channel.Why did the GIs have to come 3,500 to help him? Churchill owns this for dismissing a much better general and screwing up O'Connor who had a smashing victory just a year and a half beforeTry reading up on the 1,100 paras the asshole got killed in ONE DAY crossing the rhine.MOnty was ASS. He isn't studied anywhere except as a very bad example. If the Enemy had a million men Monty would swear they had 2 and start yelling,screaming and insisting on 3. He was an upitty little nothing that happened to be allies with the USA/USSR.Good Night
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  3043. Why has Montgomery's perverted advances been swept under the rug - where you reside?And why after getting dunkirked did he not come across a 30 mile channel for 4 full years? Ask your voices if you have to
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  3044.  @billballbuster7186  you metion a lot of bullshit,of course you never source it,covering for your ignorance and and lack of research.Montgomery was worse at commanding than you are commenting if one can even imagine 17,000 soldiers were lost at Monty Garden and Bradley wasn't involved with it,and Monty wasn't around either. Patton's 3rd Army was stopped to supply this debacle and The US 1st Army was fighting at Achen.The 101st and 82nd Airborne weren't under Bradley's command.Of course if you actually researched WWII you'd know this instead of barking out of your backside 🤣
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  3045. Pinhead monty owns it your boys got driven from Norway,Netherlands,France Belgium in less than two months and didn't come back until the Big Boys crossed the Pond.Britain had good soldiers but the Poof Montgomery wasn't one of them
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  3046. Billy ​ infantile is an asshole like you keep propping up apathetic little prick named monty .Bernard had his chance to be relevant and help the French beat the Germans in 1940.He failed miserably, From that point onward, whatever he does and regardless of what happens to him - the war ends the same way - with Germany crushed by the USSR and the US - in that order.Next time you pick up a book will be the 1st time .Monty is only studied as a bad example CONVERSATIONS WITH GENERAL J. LAWTON COLLINS,Transcribed By Major Gary Wade "Monty was a fine defensive fighter up to a certain point. But Monty's basic trouble was that he was a set-piece fighter, in contrast to George S. Patton. This was epitomized in the crossing of the Rhine.Monty was always waiting, waiting until he got everything in line. He wanted a great deal of artillery,American artillery mostly--American tanks, also. Then, when he got everything all set, he would pounce. *But he always waited until he had "tidied up the battlefield"--his expression--which was his excuse for not doing anything. Monty was a good general, I've always said, but never a great one. Ike & Monty ,Generals at War by Norman Gelb,page 409 There were many reasons why Montgomery was being effectively downgraded once more Eisenhower had no doubt any longer that his reputation as a battle-winning commander was greatly inflated The experience at Caen,Antwerp,Arnhem and delays in following up the Ardennes assault and the excessively thorough build up for the Rhine crossing provided sufficient evidence for that.General Whitely .*IKE's British Deputy Chief of Operations,said the feeling at Allied HQs "was that if anything was to be done quickly,don't give it to Monty. Monty was the last person that would be chosen to drive on Berlin - he would have needed 6 months to prepare".* Ike & Monty by Norman Gelb,p.331 Apparently the Russians shared the doubts others had about Montgomery in Normandy.Their advancing troops were reported to have put up a roadsign near Minsk saying - 1,924 kilometers to Caen
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  3047. Jack ass read a book or have one read to you.Monty was a troubled little troll not unlikyou really that was fortunate enough to be on the side of two world powers
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  3048.  @billballbuster7186  monty was crap and like you he is not studied anywhere - read "The Full Monty" by his family friend and Biographer now leave me a lone you troll.Perhaps the good lord will grant you mental stability this Christmas Season
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  3049.  @billballbuster7186  ring the nurses station you pants are full....AGAIN
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  3050.  @billballbuster7186  do you have anything insightfu to say? You've never read a book in your life .If you ever pull you head out of Monty's backside perhaps that may help
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  3051. Auchinleck won with much less in a much shorter time Bullcrap the allies built the advantages not monty they were already in place when auchinleck got sacked for performing much better than monty.A fact that churchill tried to hide for the rest of the war -EVERYTHING was already in place to win in the desert. Churchill wrongly removed General Auchinleck who argued that his men had not regrouped and needed reinforcing. Several military analysts accused Churchill of misunderstanding desert warfare tactics, saying he placed too much emphasis on territorial occupation. They needed 6 weeks to refit and resupply. So what does Monty do - took 10 weeks(Aug-13-Oct 23) to advance​ - much more time than Auchileck and Dorman Smith insisted on and got fired for in the 1st place. -Monty didn't defeat Rommel in Africa. The British Navy did by starving Rommel of resources. Monty should have been sacked at Normandy for being afraid and inaction. -Montgomery had 1500 miles and every concievable advantage - BIG ADVANTAGES in men/materiel/air cover/intelligence/tanks/artillery and still Montgomery never captured Rommel -Monty didn't build up the arms/men/tanks/materiel - the allies did -Dorman-Smith had engineers and infantry plant the massive mine field on the Alam Halfa ridge , that Bernard attempted to take credit for. -ULTRA became fully operational in August 1942 after the Germans had changed some wheels/gears on Enigma -The Torch Landings - forces included 60,000 troops in Morocco, 15,000 in Tunisia, and 50,000 in Algeria. -Claude Auchinleck called over two fresh divisions from the Nile Delta after winning 1st alamein. -The Air and Naval Corp completely strangled the Afrika Korps supply lines. Sweeping the skies and seas in/over the Mediterranean -Mongomery never opened ports or captured Air Strips for them in return -Montgomery had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with any of the above actions. He reaped the benefits of them and others who came before. The drunk Churchill fired the wrong guy. monty was a disaster the rest of the war much like his mongrels here
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  3052. Monty was at least as big as mess in both Sicily/Italy - an impediment really
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  3053. Bernard = Failed Marshmellow,Walter Model put that fallacy to rest @ Monty Garden
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  3054. Bloated Burns babbled Browning was on the verge of resigning over the drop zones. ---------------------------------------------------------- Ya he was spilling drinks all over the place but he begged not to be sent back to the handicapped unit better known as the Burns Brigade
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  3055. p-p-posted? the thrashings have left you senseless.Take that back ,that was a pre-existing condition
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  3056.  @nickdanger3802  good find i had a similar post but buried on one of these boards.Big mystery The BEF had some good officers unfortunately churchill fired too many good ones and simply stuck with that idjit
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  3057.  @nickdanger3802  yup monty wanted to withraw then the creep tried to to credit weeks later - this is why he was so reviled.He simply couldn't push the big boys around From the Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,page 469 Montgomery hesitated,suspecting that Runstedt 'had enough combat strength for another attack that could punch through to Liege.Collins thought not "nobody is going to break through these troops" he told Montgomery"this isn't going to happen. "If the Allies failed to attack closer to the base of the salient,they risked leaving a corridor through which retreating Germans could escape, he told the Field Marshall "you're going to push the Germans out of the bag,"Collins added,"just like you did at Falaise."
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  3058. Monty faffed up continually,he's not studied except as a fine example of a bad example - swiss boy
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  3059. Little Villa is a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.What a smashing strategic retreat at Dunkirk and stand @ Singapore - the envy of the civilized world
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  3060. Good Post DG
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  3061. You cherry picking pud,Didn't matter at the 30 corp wasn't there and wouldn't be for a day and a half - then sit and Graebner and his men already drove the 82nd off.In APC's, and self propelled 20mm AA guns you are not only a liar but a moron
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  3062. your new attemps a slithering about are not any more succesful than you previous ones From A Magnificent Disaster,by David Bennett,page 198 Montgomery attributes the lack of full success to the fact that the II SS Panzer Corps was refitting in the area. "We knew it was there.....we were wrong in supposing that it could not fight effectively." Here,Montgomery was at the very least being economical with the truth.
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  3063. All award winning historians and you use carnival barkers now run along so TIK can pat you on your empty head.And remember to clean the Men's Club later
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  3064. Rest with Monty who failed pretty much everywhere except the Desert where even you could have won with massive allied supplied advantages .Churchill tried propping up Monty to assuage bruised British feelings becasue they were getting pounded everywhere and wanted an equal say in everything
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  3065. he planned it that's why Brooke blamed him - IDIOT
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  3066. Both the Emerging world powers used the Broad Front advance only Zhukov didn't have to drag the laggard Monty along. Even the Germans,Irish Guards and GIs admitted the armored column stopped many times for long periods. And Brook admitted it was monty and his hair brained single thrust XXX Corp finally crossed the Nijmegen Bridge at 7:10PM the Nite of Sept 20th.Three and a half days after the operation started surprising no one. Horrocks stated the tanks would arrive on time and in force well neither happened. Monty not only mismanaged this he never planned on the Germans fighting back and ignored ULTRA warning about the 9th & 10th Panzers refitting there. He never bothered showing up either Like davey here he had the spine of a gummy bear
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  3067. Thicko If I give you the direct quote will the home revoke your internet priviliges?I see you took down all your zingers on Mark Felton's board. Did you have a moment of reflection or was he disgusted with your blisterheaded comments again?
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  3068. Get a life you sad speculator of nonsense.Erased your comments on Felton's board - an epic bottom beating was administered to you.Even the other patients at the home don't believe you or your alias accounts Barrie Rodliffe joined 26 Sept 2013 Giovanni Pierre joined 28 Sept 2013 John Peate joined 28 Sept 2013 John Burns joined 07 Nov 2013 John Cornell joined 13 Nov 2013 TheVilla Aston joined 20 Nov 2013 Johnny it Friday put on your Who Farted Shirt and head out
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  3069. From the Battle of Arnhem,by Antony Beevor,page 365-66 In fact the fundamental concept of Operation Market Garden defied military logic because it made no allowance for anything to go wrong,nor for the enemy's likely reaction .In short the whole operation ignored the old rule that no plan survives 1st contact with the enemy.Montgomery even blamed the weather not the plan,even asserting the plan was 90% successful because they got 9/10ths of the way to Arnhem General Oberst Student pointed out the strength of the flak batteries were grossly exaggerate .As a result the British lost "surprise",the strongest weapon of airborne troops . At Arnhem Oberstgruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich who has great respect for Montgomery's generalship up until then changed his opinion after
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  3070. little villa like you he wasn't there but that has never kept you from popping off. Run a long and mop the Burlesque villa & get some excersize - it's a double feature
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  3071. Sandhurst education - go brag to him that you attended lectures - idiot
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  3072.  @sean640307  try a high end library our local library has private money involved and I've actually gotten books loaned from out of state.Maybe Kindle,I watched a video with Kershaw and he stated that Harmel had the Artillary map with installations locations identified on the map and there wasn't an 88 on the road between Nijmegam-Arnhem which was 8-11 miles i believe.There was a smaller field gun however
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  3073.  @sean640307  good luck .closing down IMO isn't the answer ma have the opposite results.Hopefully your media and health care proffessionals are more mature and dialed in than up here
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  3074. From My Three Years With Eisenhower,by Capt.Harry C.Butcher,p.675 - Sept 24,1944,Monty had been pressing for more supplies to 21st Army Group.IKE informed Monty that he had given preference to the left flank(21st Army) through out the campaign.Including the attachments of Air Borne and everything to assure the maintenance.On the other hand all other forces had been fighting with a halter around their necks with respect to supplies. IKE illustrated that for 4 days straight Patton had been receiving serious counter attacks , yet in 7 days without attempting to any real advance 3rd Army captured 9,000 prisoners and knocked out 270 tanks
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  3075. Little Villa is Monty's Swiss boy.Monty didn't reach Arnhem let alone the Ruhr,destroy any rocket sites and Antwerp(Port) was still closed.And the eviserated the Ally Airborne.He would of been relieved as a GI.He would have been shot in Germany or Russia
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  3076. He was getting his pictured painted as HIS plan unraveled causing destruction of much of the allied troops,killed or captured.Much like Dieppe the plan was his but he didn't take it on the chin.
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  3077.  @RoadRashSpirit  Dr William Buckingham. the author or Arnhem: The Complete Story of Operation Market Garden 17-25 September 1944.*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amo1f1_Hvho* an actual Historian.Much better than anything by Tik who gets loose with many facts.Historians he sources don't come to his conclusions - I've read the fookin' books.I want to read Buckinghams book next.MacArther was a carbon Copy of Monty.Patton while ego driven showed tactical smarts.Monty ripped many good British Generals and completely ignored the tremendous contibutionsAir Marshalls and Naval forces - in the mediterreanan and the chanel off of Caen.Churchill should have never fired Auchineck and Dorman-Smith
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  3078.  @RoadRashSpirit  rightfully so had Churchill left Brooke alone he'd be a division commander .Read Niall Barr,Beevor,HastingsCorelli Barnett,David Bennet,Rick Atkinson
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  3079.  @RoadRashSpirit  I time stamped this but it is worth watching both parts start watching here https://youtu.be/duOYnIGivys?t=1580 .Remember there was no instant messaging in those days.those are good authors and insightful I posted about.Britain had some outstanding officers Monty wasn't really one of them he happened to be in the right place at the right time.Monty was feeding less than accurate narrative to the press so boosted him up as a hero when in fact he had made amnt enemies withing the British military
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  3080.  @RoadRashSpirit  well twice Monty almost got sacked not because of nationality either but point taken.That's a great video on OMG
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  3081. Burns get your head wound looked at.When was Britain fighting for 6 yrs.Declare war in Sept'39 do nothing until May '40.Even the Germans called it the "SitzKreig".Then in less than 3 weeks unfortunately driven into the sea.Then head 3,000 miles into the desert, not crossing the English Channel until 4 yrs later - with the GI's of course.If you listen closely can hear Guderian snickering across the channel and the French screaming sacre bleu.And Stalin is like WTF *https://www.historyandheadlines.com/history-september-26-1944-market-garden-montgomerys-biggest-failure * From Eisenhower's Armies,by Dr Niall Barr,page 415 After the failure of Market-Garden,Eisenhower held a conference on 5 October 1944 that not only provided a post mortem on the operation but in which he reiterated his strategy for the campaign.Alan Brooke was present as an observer,noted that IKE's strategy continued to focus on the clearance of the Scheldt Estuary,followed by an advance on the Rhine,the capture of the Ruhr and a subsequent advance on Berlin.After a full and frank discussion in which Admiral Ramsey criticised Montgomery freely,Brooke was moved to write,"I feel that Monty's strategy for once is at fault,instead of carrying out the advance on Arnhem he ought to have made certain of Antwerp in the 1st place....IKE nobly took all the blame on himself as he had approved Monty's suggestion to operate on Arnhem" *https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/battle_arnhem_01.shtml * At the end of the first day, XXX corps had advanced only seven miles from their start line, and had not reached the first in the sequence of bridges. Meanwhile the Germans were reinforcing, and their tanks were moving into Arnhem ready to take on the lightly armed British paratroopers. Proof this is a bad plan... the first obstacle each force in this plan had was the very plan itself. XXX Corps stuck going up one road, asking for ambush and serious delays (both occurred) From September Hope,by John C.McManus,page 4 "When Eisenhower strayed from his Broad Front Advance and gave Montgomery permission to launch Market-Garden,he made his worst decision of the war .Market Garden was a bad idea because it took the focus off of Antwerp - and Antwerp mattered the most.Without the necessary supplies,the Allies had no chance of sustaining a victorious push into Germany. This never ends well for you puddles
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  3082. Germans had so thoroughly demolished the port that months would pass before it was again operational. Securing another port, hopefully intact, would do a great deal to reduce the supply bottleneck still running through the Normandy beaches, and hopefully fuel Patton’s tanks. The Germans knew this as well, however, and had done a great deal to fortify and garrison the most important harbors in Brittany—especially Brest. To ensure that the garrison would be able to hold on to the city almost indefinitely, without having to feed civilians, the Germans had forcibly evacuated the population. Paratroop General Hermann-Bernhard Ramcke, a wily veteran who had served under General Erwin Rommel in North Africa, commanded the 40,000-man garrison in Brest, which Adolf Hitler had declared a fortress to be defended to the last bullet. Two infantry divisions and one parachute division with associated elements, including ample artillery and machine guns, defended a formidable network of bunkers, pillboxes, emplacements, and trenches, all placed for mutual support. These were arrayed in exterior and interior lines, with the intention of eventually drawing any attackers into the city for house-to-house fighting and heavy casualties. As the fighting intensified, American engineers worked to clear minefields and blow up strongpoints one at a time. Fifteen British “Crocodiles”—Churchill tanks equipped with flamethrowers—were brought in to scorch the inner German fortifications. Finally, the inner city garrison surrendered on September 18. General Ramcke, having symbolically fired the last shell from an artillery piece, surrendered on September 19. At the cost of almost 10,000 casualties, the Americans had killed or captured the entire German garrison. But Brest, along with its harbor facilities, was utterly destroyed. So Monty got a whole city leveled at Caen and didn't grab the airfields until late.And with the fighting forces in such close proximity they didn't enjoy the heaviest aeriel bombbing and naval shelling of Normandy that bernard did at Caen.
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  3083.  @sean640307  Netherlands was a different location all together and Antwerp at the time had the largest port and would be needed to keep supporting not only the operation but the continued advance. Which of course was redundent because Monty was ass
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  3084.  @sean640307  no because it was the closet port to their operation, that Monty chose,stop deflecting.And we know speed is of the essence where Monty is concerned 🤣,provided he would show up like an actual Field Marshall Walter Model
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  3085.  @sean640307  prove it?Now it's on the canucks,Monty mentioned that in passing after the fact to deflect,does Monty have your party pictures? He wasn't there try reading an actual historian intsead of of the novels sold here - and you know it or get a pass because of ignorance. Next thing you'll try telling me he actually showed up during hostilities. Ya know when the wheels started coming off 3 miles from the start in Belgium and he conveniently gets scarce bull crap it's not. I once thought you may have a clue but you are a headmaster in this 8 decade old after the fact revisionists cult
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  3086.  @sean640307  no you dismissed facts previously presented because of the obnoxious revision pursued by this so called presenter. Montgomery himself faffed this up on September 4th.Then of course he doesn't show up until after hostilities are over.And bernard never left enough men or materiel instead sending 10,400 men into Arnhem of which 2,100 came out. Horrocks: The General Who Led From the Front,by Philip Warner,p.111 - "There was only a single low grade division ahead of Horrocks on Sept 4. it was spread over a 50 mile front along the Albert Canal. Horrocks believed that this could have been brushed aside and XXX Corps could have gone on to cross the Rhine" The Folly of Generals,by David P.Colley,p.213-14 On 29 August Horrocks XXX Corp set out on a drive that some conclude might have altered the course of the war. They advanced 250 miles through northern France and into Belgium unopposed and captured the strategic port of Antwerp virtually with out a fight. Horrocks admitted as much "we could have smashed through and advanced northward with little or nothing to stop us. We might have even have succeeded in bouncing across the Rhine - if we had taken the chance and and carried straight on" There were no significant German forces between Horrocks and the Rhine.But instead of ordering Horrocks forward on September 4 Montgomery halted him. R.W.Thompson who was an Intelligence Officer in the British Army during WWII,also lays the blame for the army's failure with the Field Marshall "At the crucial hour leadership was lacking,the decision that only Field Marshall Montgomery could have exercised for which the hour demanded on seizing options and opportunities"
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