Comments by "Patrick Cleburne" (@patrickcleburneuczjsxpmp9558) on "\"YOUR WELCOME\" with Michael Malice #260: \"Comic\" Dave Smith \u0026 Konstantin Kisin on Ukraine" video.

  1. @@happamiatkettu > Like Konstantin said: 1. Ukrainians want to defend their homeland Zelensky was elected on a platform of negotiating peace, not a hardliner. And even if Ukrainians have been radicalized since 2014, the idea that they would otherwise be strongly pro-Kiev and anti-Russia is disproved by the absence of resistance to Russia in Crimea and the strong resistance to Kiev in the Donbas for the last 9 years. Those pro-Russia and anti-Maidan sentiments surely characterized substantial minorities in the rest of Ukraine in 2014, too. And it's not as if Ukrainians want to (1) "defend their homeland" at all; denying self-determination to the people of the Donbas isn't "defending their homeland." And (2) it's not as if Ukrainians want to "defend their homeland" in a vacuum. They want to defend their homeland so long as the West pays for it. If the West stayed out of it, they'd be making very different choices. > 2. There is no option for peace without NATO membership. Other than absurd "Putin is Hitler" propaganda nonsense, Russia never would have invaded in the first place if the West hadn't helped overthrow the democratically elected -- yes, politics in Ukraine are highly corrupt, but that doesn't ultimately matter -- government in order to establish a more anti-Russian government (that proceeded to abuse the rights of the Russian-speaking population in Ukraine) and if the US hadn't been trying to gain effective military dominance over Ukraine. Finland wasn't a member of NATO, and at no point since the collapse of the USSR has Finland had any more reason to fear a Russian invasion than Poland has had reason to fear another German invasion. Obviously, NATO membership wasn't necessary to peace for Russia's neighbors. > 3. the money going into Ukraine would not fix any domestic issues in the US No, but it's significantly exacerbating most domestic issues.
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  2. A multipolar world where no nation is trying to dominate the rest of the world is a net gain of freedom, most of all for the West. Smith was totally right about the American empire not being in the interests of the vast majority of Americans.
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  3. "Self-determination" in the context of huge piles of Western money pouring into Ukraine isn't self-determination. If the West hadn't tried to buy influence in Ukraine and had kept its military completely out of Ukraine and had played no part in the Maidan coup, etc., then Ukrainians would have made entirely different choices about their own self-determination, particularly including maintaining good enough relations with Russia that Russia wouldn't have invaded.
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  4.  @privacyfig  True, no country lives in a vacuum, but the extent of Ukrainian "self-determination" is directly proportional to the extent of foreign neutrality, which is to say claims of Ukrainian "self-determination" in the context of massive Western intervention is pretty meaningless. Ukrainian "self-determination" would have been totally different minus America's $100+ billion dollars of manipulation, and Ukrainians would have been a lot better off (but various politicians and Raytheon and NATO bureaucrats needing an enemy to justify their programs and salaries, etc. had other priorities.)
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  5. I really wonder how someone like Konstantin can be such an apologist for the post-Christian West. He seems sincere, but how could he be so blind to the obvious holes in his arguments for the "incomparable freedom" of the West? Yes, freedom of speech is relatively very strong in the US, but in Konstantin's own country I saw a video clip of a woman getting arrested for praying quietly to herself near an abortion business, another video of a man getting arrested for reading Bible verses on a public sidewalk that were offensive to woke people, and a video of the British cops forcing a man out of a public square because a pro-Palestinian crowd was threatening him (and his message didn't even have anything to do with the Middle East -- I think it had to do with vaccines or something similarly unrelated.) And hate speech laws in EU countries are the basis of atrocious violations of speech rights, e.g. prosecution of politicians like Geert Wilders in the Netherlands. Overall I think the difference in free speech between Russia and the Netherlands or the UK isn't really so big at all. And there are so many other points of comparison besides free speech where Russia looks significantly more free, for example Wuhan pandemic lockdowns, mask requirements, shutting down churchers, etc., etc. Was Russia not a lot less bad than Australia or lots of states and cities in the US? There weren't any "green passes" in Russia like there were in some EU countries or Israel, were there? Or what about homeschooling rights? Is there not more freedom to homeschool in Russia than most EU countries? Is the freedom to educate one's own children according to one's own values in an affordable way not a critically fundamental freedom? Or what about all the regulations and bureaucracy that stifles small business in America? I bet it's a lot easier to milk a few cows in Russia, make cheese in one's own kitchen or another building that didn't cost the equivalent of 20 years of cheese sales from those cows, and sell it at a local market in Russia than most states in the US. Is there even a single state in the US where a person can cut someone else's hair professionally without a license? These sorts of license requirements, regulations, and other such red tape are probably more extensive in the US than anywhere else in the world. There are a lot of such comparisons (on points critically important to freedom) that destroy the myth of the "incomparable freedom" of the NATO sphere. The abuses of freedom, although of different sorts in different parts of the world, are (with some notable exceptions like China, North Korea...) not incomparably different overall.
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  6. If we hadn't tried to deprive Japan of oil, Japan wouldn't have bombed Hawaii (where we never would have been to start with apart from unjust late 19th century American imperialism.) And if we hadn't gone to war against Germany, the USSR might not have dominated so much of the rest of eastern Europe for half a century afterwards. What do you think the US getting involved in WWII accomplished?
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  7. Putin never tried to take Kiev. That's clear from the size of the force sent into Ukraine. Putin struck at the capital of Ukraine to try to force Ukraine to make concessions, not to try to take Kiev. Putin no more tried to take Kiev than Thomas Jefferson tried to take Tripoli.
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  8.  @privacyfig  > are actually fighting for their freedom What freedom are they fighting for? The freedom to deny freedom to the people of the Donbas? > they want to have same standards of living and quality of life as we do in the west And you think they're making better progress toward that end than they could have if they had done whatever was necessary to maintain peace with Russia (or make peace in March of 22)? > Russia (which they hate) Now, maybe. Prior to the coup they wouldn't have elected a mostly pro-Russian president if they really hated Russia, would they have? > on the other hand they are under the influence of the globalist elite like Clause Schwab and WEF (and don't yet fully realize this, but regardless, they would perceive this as a lesser of the two evils) Only because they depend on the West to maintain hostile relations with Russia. If they had kept the peace, they would have had much more independence from both sides. > a good conservative ally With an American-born transvestite spokesman? With a president like Zelensky? In what sense would Ukraine -- you are talking about Ukraine, right? -- otherwise be conservative? > and maybe more importantly from letting it fall under globalists. If you oppose the globalists, why do you defend their attempts to crush those that resist them?
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  9. So many huge counter-arguments like that!
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  10.  @БогданБеркут  > to end by force a civil war that has been going on for 5 years and has grown into ethnic cleansing Change the 5 to 8 and you could be talking about direct Russian military involvement in Ukraine.
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  11. > US world domination is far preferable to any other nation dominating. A multipolar world with no nation dominating the rest of the world is far preferable to either.
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