Comments by "Patrick Cleburne" (@patrickcleburneuczjsxpmp9558) on "Senator Bernie Sanders" channel.

  1. Taxing the working class so the government can pay off the college debt of liberal arts students isn't honorable. And Sanders supports all sorts of things like that. He's right in this speech, though.
    1
  2. For whatever it's worth Sanders gave an excellent speech recognizing much of what you just described around Feb 10. It's as if this video just two weeks later were made by a totally different person.
    1
  3.  @MrHope86  Was that meant to be sarcastic? Or are you ignorant of the wars NATO has waged against its neighbors and not-so-near neighbors in the last 25 years?
    1
  4. Ukraine has denied the right of self-determination to the people of Crimea, and there's good reason to believe they legitimately wanted to join Russia, particularly after the US supported the overthrow of the president that the people of Crimea had especially supported. Russia supporting the rights of ethnic Russians in a neighboring country with recent historical ties seems less extreme than wars the US has engaged in in recent years, including in support of separatist movements in countries that never even posed a hint of a security concern to the US.
    1
  5.  @lisayarrow2007  The US has brought the horrors of war to far more places than Russia. That's no justification for what Russia or any other country has done or may do, but it's reason to be at least as concerned about further US/NATO aggression as Russian aggression. And Russia has very clearly over many years expressed serious concerns about NATO aggression. NATO brought the horrors of war to one of Russia's allies in 1999 (at least as much as Russia has done now) in defense of a separatist movement even though there wasn't so much as an allegation of Russia's ally posing any threat to any NATO member state or any other country. But Russia hasn't really brought the horrors of war to Ukraine. Ukraine has been at war since 2014, and the US and EU are primarily to blame for that. Overthrowing democratically elected leaders in violent coups isn't the way to promote peace and democracy. So, to your question of whether Russia's invasion is legitimate, I think, as the US Declaration of Independence says, that the only basis of just government is the consent of the governed. By that standard, it does appear that Moscow is the legitimate government of Crimea. If Ukraine had called for a fairer referendum, that would be one thing, but Ukraine denied the right of the Crimean people to have a referendum, so I think it's fair to say Ukraine forfeited any right to object to the referendum that was held. And the situation is similar in eastern Ukraine. Kiev has no more legitimate claim to govern Donetsk than Moscow has to govern Kiev. The only basis of legitimacy I would recognize is the consent of the governed. If Russia is willing to withdraw from the parts of Ukraine that want to remain part of an independent Ukraine on the conditions that Ukraine respect the self-determination of the parts that don't and that Ukraine remain neutral (not join NATO, etc.), then yes, I think Russia's invasion is legitimate. So long as Ukraine and the West object to those terms, I don't think it matters if Russia would fulfill its end of the deal. Russia has made the offer; if Ukraine and the West refuse, then it's on them. If Ukraine and the West accept the deal and Russia doesn't follow through with its end, then Russia can be blamed, but we can't legitimately blame Russia without even giving Russia a chance to respect Ukrainian independence on those terms. So to your question of whether occupying the entire country and installing a puppet regime would be legitimate, no, it wouldn't be, but Russia is denying those are it's aims and it's offering peace on terms that wouldn't include occupying the entire country and installing a puppet regime. What is there to lose from giving Russia a chance to respect those terms?
    1
  6.  @lisayarrow2007  So do you have any answer to the question I asked you: What is there to lose from giving Russia a chance to respect the terms of the peace deal Russia has offered?
    1
  7.  @lisayarrow2007  So you can tell us what Putin is thinking but you have to just blindly trust that Ukraine's leaders have a good reason, one that's not discernible to you, for continuing to wage war despite a deal you can't really see anything wrong with? It doesn't seem like you care about peace.
    1
  8.  @lisayarrow2007  Either you're blindly trusting that Ukraine's leaders have a good reason, one that's not discernible to you -- as I said -- or you can explain what good reason they have, in which case, go ahead and explain what good reason they have for refusing to agree to Russia's stated demands. If you cared about peace you ought to be able to give a good reason for rejecting Russia's proposed terms of peace other than just "it would seem that they, at least, have serious concerns..." without making any attempt to understand or communicate what those concerns are or why they justify continued war.
    1
  9. The way for Americans to stand for peace is to come to terms and encourage Ukraine to come to terms with Russia. Waiting for Russia to conquer even more of Ukraine won't help Ukrainians get any better terms than they could get now. Ukrainian independence on conditions of neutrality and concessions for the self-determination of parts of Ukraine (Crimea...) and the easing of sanctions (which are definitely hurting Americans, too), wouldn't be bad for the Ukrainian people. We owe it to the Ukrainian people to give peace under such terms a chance.
    1
  10. Sanders gave a speech a little less than a month ago very much along the lines of what you just said. It was an excellent speech unlike this one.
    1
  11. Americans and Europeans profiting off of war is the only reason NATO wasn't dissolved in the 90's. And if NATO had been dissolved in the 90's this war probably never would have happened.
    1