Comments by "Patrick Cleburne" (@patrickcleburneuczjsxpmp9558) on "Ukraine War is a scam. There is no win for Ukraine." video.

And if five men, each bigger and stronger than your two sons, threaten your sons with swords if they don't give up their wallets, do you tell them (from a safe distance on your cell phone) to fight to the death with their pocket knives rather than surrender their wallets (because you are an American)?
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Ukraine was bad enough off even before 2014 (let alone 2022) with a per capita GDP approximately a third of Russia's and approximately 10% of the EU, the lowest birth rate in all of Europe, and massive out-migration of working/childbearing age men and women.
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@Telechronic OK, that's mighty brave of you to tell your sons to die for nothing. Another question: > If another nation invades your nation, you fight the invaders. You don't give up, you don't surrender, you don't negotiate - you fight to the end. Do you have the same feelings about the NATO invasion of Serbia?
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What do the West's state leaders stand to lose? Nothing, really.
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Why should Serbia accept Clinton killing over 1500 of its people and stealing 14% of its land?
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Unless you're bowing down before NATO, then being able to live on your knees is worth dying for.
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@Telechronic You ever been pulled over for a traffic violation you disagreed with the cop about? I guess not, because you would have fought the cop to the death then and there and wouldn't be able to comment here any more, right?
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That's like arguing that France could have defeated Germany in WWI if England and the US had merely contributed enough "resources" (but no men/armies) to the French war effort. That's not remotely what happened, and if it had been France would have been thoroughly defeated by Germany.
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No more than Serbia was "defending its territory" in the Kosovo War.
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Who says the Ukrainians aren't convinced or that it would matter if they were? They certainly can't vote on the question directly. The government isn't even allowing them to vote for representatives any more (which wouldn't represent them any more than the American deep state represents American voters even if they could vote for representatives), and their current ruler was elected on a platform of peace and compromise with Russia.
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What would Ukraine have had to "trust Russia" on? You're attacking a straw man.
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@Nitroat-xo4tj What deal would Russia have to honor? You're attacking a straw man.
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@Nitroat-xo4tj The original deal was more or less that Russia would withdraw from all but Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk oblasts if Ukraine would agree not to join NATO and forfeit those oblasts (which it didn't control anyway.) That means Ukraine didn't really have to trust Russia at all, but Russia had to trust Ukraine not to just renege on its end of the deal as soon as Russia had withdrawn.
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I guess you think the pope is a Russian shill, too?
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I think you put all of that very well except for the stupidity part. I think what Zelensky is doing actually is in his narrow self interest. The fact that it's not in the country's interest only highlights the corruption part.
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@youareliedtobythemedia You think Ukraine has a better economy than Russia?????
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@youareliedtobythemedia So do you likewise think France could have defeated Germany and the Central Powers in WWI without any English or American forces but just with American "support" because America had a better economy than war-time Germany?
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@youareliedtobythemedia If you think France could have defeated Germany in WWI without any British or American troops, you probably also think Kuwait could have won the Kuwait war without any American or other allied forces.
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@youareliedtobythemedia Ukraine was headed into demographic collapse even before 2014. True, the war will end before Ukraine can literally fight to the last man, and that's in large part because Ukraine can't continue to meet the very most basic needs of its people if all the men are conscripted. And not only will Ukraine not be able to meet the basic needs of its people short-term, but what's the point of fighting if there aren't any young men left to raise another generation of Ukrainians after the war? Some kind of collapse will come long before NATO fights Russia to the last Ukrainian, no matter how much support NATO provides.
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@youareliedtobythemedia Ukraine's pre-war birth rate was almost as low as Vatican City, the lowest of any country in the world. Russia's is very low, but still close to double Ukraine's. Likewise, the population of Russia and Ukraine both dropped between the break-up of the USSR and 2014, but in percentage terms Ukraine lost nearly twice as many people as Russia in that time. And then a significant percentage of the people that have fled Ukraine since 2022 are now living in Russia. Ukraine's dire population issues are the reason that Ukraine is conscripting men over 40 but not "normal" fighting age men of 18-27. Yes, the pre-Russian invasion population of Ukraine was greater than post-WWII, but with all of the young women and children that fled since 2022 Ukraine's population now (even if you're not just looking at the parts of pre-2014 Ukraine that are currently under Ukrainian control) might be about as low as 1945, but the big difference between 1945 and today is that the Ukrainian population in 2021 was extremely heavy on old people. In 2021, there were more than twice as many 60 year old Ukrainian women as 18 year old women (or men), and, of course, it's overwhelmingly younger women and children that have left since then, dramatically exacerbating that problem even further, and many of those young women and children are never going to return for the same reasons so many were leaving even before 2014, and there will be even more reasons not to return after the war is over. You're not going to rebuild a country with 60+ year old women and disabled veterans.
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Yes, Germany is subservient, but Germans most certainly don't "look up to" Americans. Germans disdain America much the same way America's ruling class disdains the American people.
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@Telechronic No, it's your reasoning that's primitive. And as for which principles apply to the issue at hand, the best test of whether principles are true principles worthy of defending as such or just lame excuses is to examine whether they hold true with other issues or whether other issues expose the absurdity of a false claim (as is the case with your assertion that we should always fight to end rather than compromise, not matter what the realistic odds of success.)
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 @Telechronic > I never said such a thing by the way. What are you talking about? Such a thing as what?
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 @Telechronic If you're strategy now is to avoid saying anything intelligible or substantive? I'd hide from the arguments you were making earlier, too.
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But Zelensky, Blackrock, Raytheon, Pfizer... are coming out ahead, so what does it matter how bad it all is for the people of Ukraine, the EU, the US, etc.?
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@seawolfinblue4389 Zelensky, Blackrock, Raytheon, etc. stand to come out ahead even if in the end there's nothing left of Ukraine at all.
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