Comments by "Historia, Magistra Vitae" (@Historia.Magistra.Vitae.) on "The Majority Report w/ Sam Seder"
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@joschafinger126 "Fascism is *not*, at heart, a unified, internally consistent ideology. Rather, it's a political style, much like more general populism is rather style than ideology."
Wrong. Fascism was a very specific and consistent political ideology based on Hegelian philosophy and National Syndicalism. There were multiple syndicalists involved with the ideology, such as Alceste De Ambris & Filippo Tommaso Marinetti in the beginning, then later Sergio Panunzio, Alfredo Rocco, Edmondo Rossoni, Mario Palmieri etc. Finally, Giovanni Gentile was the one who formulated the latest iteration of the ideology with Mussolini.
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@ToxicAudri "Because fascism doesn't exclude a theocracy, it very easily includes it."
Wrong. In the Fascist ideology, there was nothing above and beyond the State. The State was the final and only authority. Even Mussolini himself was anti-clerical and a fan of Nietzsche.
"Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception is for the State; and it is for the individual only in so far as he coincides with the State, which is the conscience and universal will of man in his historical existence. It is opposed to classical liberalism, which arose as a reaction to absolutism and exhausted its historical function when the State was transformed into the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the interest of the particular individual; Fascism reasserts the State as the true reality of the individual. And if liberty is to be the attribute of real men, and not of abstract puppets invented by individualistic liberalism, then Fascism is for liberty, and for the only liberty which can be real, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State. Therefore, for the Fascist, everything is in the State, and outside of it nothing human or spiritual can exist, much less have value. In this sense Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—the synthesis and unity of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of the people."
- the Doctrine of Fascism
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@orphaotheseeker2770 "Capitalists worked with fascists,"
Wrong. There was no "with". The Capitalists were subjugated by the Fascists, as directly stated by Mussolini himself;
"The Fascist State directs and controls the entrepreneurs, whether it be in our fisheries or in our heavy industry in the Val d'Aosta. There the State actually owns the mines and carries on transport, for the railways are state property. So are many of the factories… We term it state intervention… If anything fails to work properly, the State intervenes. The capitalists will go on doing what they are told, down to the very end. They have no option and cannot put up any fight. Capital is not God; it is only a means to an end.”
— Benito Mussolini, As quoted in Talks with Mussolini, Emil Ludwig, Boston, MA, Little, Brown and Company (1933), pp. 153-154, Interview took place between March 23 and April 4, 1932 1930s
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@orphaotheseeker2770 "The purpose of the state, in a communist revolution, was to be used to repress the bourgeoisie. The reason for this was to abolish class entirely, and this can only be achieved once the DOTP is established, or else the reactionary, bourgeoisie elements of society, the counter revolutionaries, squash a communist revolution."
And this is why Fascism opposed Communism. Again, Fascism believed that the purpose of the State was, according to Mussolini himself:
"The State exists for all the people, but is also above the people, and, if necessary, against the people. . . . It is against them whenever they attempt to place their particular interests above the general interests of the Nation ... The National State conciliates in itself the interests of all social categories, and wants decidedly the greatness of the nation through the welfare of the single citizen ... It is the purpose of Fascism to unify the Nation through the sovereign State, the State which is above all and can be against all, because it represents the moral continuity of the Nation. Without State there is no Nation."
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@orphaotheseeker2770 "Completely false. He was a fascist. "
Still the same thing. Fascism was a socialist ideology, and Gentile advocated for socialism.
“The Fascist, on the other hand, conceives philosophy as a philosophy of practice (”praxis”). That concept was the product of certain Marxist and Sorellian inspirations (many Fascists and the Duce, himself, received their first intellectual education in the school of Marx and Sorel)—as well as the influence of contemporary Italian idealistic doctrines from which Fascist mentality drew substance and achieved maturity.”
“It is necessary to distinguish between socialism and socialism—in fact, between idea and idea of the same socialist conception, in order to distinguish among them those that are inimical to Fascism. It is well known that Sorellian syndicalism, out of which the thought and the political method of Fascism emerged—conceived itself the genuine interpretation of Marxist communism. The dynamic conception of history, in which force as violence functions as an essential, is of unquestioned Marxist origin. Those notions flowed into other currents of contemporary thought, that have themselves, via alternative routes, arrived at a vindication of the form of State—implacable, but absolutely rational—that finds historic necessity in the very spiritual dynamism through which it realizes itself.”
— Giovanni Gentile, Che cosa è il fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche (“What is Fascism?”), Florence: Vallecchi, (1925)
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@orphaotheseeker2770 "This is completely at odds with socialism, particularly Marxism, which has been and will always be MATERIALIST. "
Not at odds with socialism, but certainly with Marxism. Every element of Fascist doctrine can be traced to the belief system of revolutionary national syndicalism as that syndicalism emerged from the First World War.
“Fascism as a consequence of its Marxian and Sorelian patrimony... conjoined with the influence of contemporary Italian idealism, through which Fascist thought attained maturity, conceives philosophy as praxis.”
— Giovanni Gentile , Origini e dottrina del fascismo, Rome (1929) p. 58, A. James Gregor, The Ideology of Fascism: The Rationale of Totalitarianism, New York: NY, The Free Press (1969) p. 317
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@orphaotheseeker2770 "post this definition, and by definition I mean an academic one, not your own personal definition or the definition by some loon over at FEE or Mises. Go on."
There is no academic one. There is only the historical definition, based on the writings of multiple syndicalists involved; that is, Alceste De Ambris & Filippo Tommaso Marinetti in the beginning, then later Sergio Panunzio, Alfredo Rocco, Edmondo Rossoni, Mario Palmieri, and finally Giovanni Gentile, who formulated the latest iteration of the ideology with Mussolini.
Now, to that definition; Totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism. Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
or if you fancy a simplistic definition; Fascism was totalitarian National Syndicalism.
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@orphaotheseeker2770 "Here's one that's better: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy."
Not better, it is flawed and inaccurate.
Fascism wasn't far-right, since it was far-left socialist ideology. It wasn't authoritarian, it was totalitarian. It was just nationalist and statist movement, no reason to use funny prefixes on words like nationalism. Fascism didn't have a dictatorial leader since by definition, Mussolini wasn't one. Fascism was lead by the so called Grand Council of Fascism, which also ended up democratically removing Mussolini from office. They were about the supremacy of the State apparatus, race wasn't important to the ideology itself.
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Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
Trump has nothing to do with Fascism whatsoever, nor does any American politician for that matter.
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"Ultra-nationalism, extreme far-right, regimentation of society and economy, and state as the ends are certain features."
Fascism had nothing to do with Right wing of any kind whatsoever. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@UsmanArshad-qv5nt " Fascism's origin is based on the fear of Marxism or socialism which was inspired from neighbouring Soviet as people post WWI were frustrated with low wages and extreme exploitations at the hands of corporates. "
Fascism didn't "fear" Marxism. They specifically though that Marxism was doing socialism wrong, and that using National Syndicalism was the proper way to bring about a socialist society. Mussolini was one of the first to comingle the phrase fascism with syndicalism, remarking in the early 1920s that “Fascist syndicalism is national and productivistic… in a national society in which labor becomes a joy, an object of pride and a title to nobility.” Most Italian syndicalists viewed social revolution as a means for rapid transformation to provide “superior productivity,” and if this economic abundance failed to occur, there could be no meaningful social change. The emphasis by syndicalists towards the importance of “producerism” had been originally initiated by Sorel in 1907, who argued that “Marx considers that a revolution by a proletariat of producers who [have] acquired economic capacity.” When Carlo Cafiero developed a compendium for the initial volume of Capital in Italian, Marx reminded his colleague that “material conditions necessary for the emancipation of the proletariat” must be “spontaneously generated by the development of capitalism (den Gang der kapitalistischen Produktion).”
The support for the theory of producerism expanded among Fascist syndicalists after the conclusion of the Russian Civil War and transition from war communism showed high unemployment and an environment where “most of the mills and factories were at a standstill; mines and collieries were wrecked and flooded.”
After the introduction of the New Economic Policy (NEP), Italian syndicalists continued to move further away from orthodox Marxism, determined to revise it to fit the changing times and to embolden its strategic goals. They argued that the Russian Bolsheviks had failed to adhere to Engels’ 1850 admonition about the dangers of trying to establish a social revolution within an economically backwards environment. This drift had emerged years before the economic malaise of Soviet Russia, prompting most Italian syndicalists to transcend the errors and drawbacks that “they believed they found in orthodox Marxism.” Developed to bring about worker control of the means of production by direct action, the intellectuals of syndicalism came to the realization that Italy's primitive economy could facilitate neither equality nor abundance for society. Without a mature industry developed by the bourgeois, they came to understand that a successful social revolution required the support of “classless” revolutionaries. Mussolini, along with Italian syndicalists, Nationalists and Futurists, contended that those revolutionaries would be Fascists, not Marxists or some other ideology. According to Mussolini and other syndicalist theoreticians, Fascism would be “the socialism of ‘proletarian nations.’”
Fascist syndicalists also became preoccupied with the idea of increasing production instead of simply establishing a redistributive economic structure. Sergio Panunzio, a major theoretician of Italian Fascism and syndicalism, believed that Syndicalists were producerists, rather than distributionists. In his criticism of the Bolsheviks’ handling of their economy, Panunzio also asserted that Russian Soviet state had become a “dictatorship over the proletariat, and not of the proletariat.”
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@UsmanArshad-qv5nt "Mousilini and others never wanted socialism"
Wrong. They specifically did, and Mussolini himself was a devout socialist.
"For this I have been and am a socialist. The accusation of inconsistency has no foundation. My conduct has always been straight in the sense of looking at the substance of things and not to the form. I adapted socialisticamente to reality. As the evolution of society belied many of the prophecies of Marx, the true socialism folded from possible to probable. The only feasible socialism socialisticamente is corporatism, confluence, balance and justice interests compared to the collective interest. "
- As quoted in “Soliloquy for ‘freedom’ Trimellone island”, on the Italian Island of Trimelone, journalist Ivanoe Fossani, one of the last interviews of Mussolini, March 20, 1945,
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@UsmanArshad-qv5nt "Mousilini was never been a socialist by his actions and beliefs."
Wrong. Mussolini was always a socialist, by his actions, words and beliefs. He started out as a Marxist, and was accepted by his socialist peers as a Marxist theoretician. He rose to leadership in the Italian Socialist Party at least in part on the basis of his recognized capacity as a socialist intellectual. Then he understood that in order to have a socialist society, Marxism is not the proper way, which is why he turned to revolutionary National Syndicalism, which he adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel.
"I owe most to Georges Sorel. This master of syndicalism by his rough theories of revolutionary tactics has contributed most to form the discipline, energy and power of the fascist cohorts."
- As Quoted in The New Inquisitions: Heretic-Hunting and the Intellectual Origins of Modern Totalitarianism, Arthur Versluis, Oxford University Press (2006)
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"Fascism is hyperpatriotic ultra-nationalistic militant right-wing populism."
Except Fascism had nothing to do with Right wing of any kind whatsoever. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@gary2kr1 " Fascism is a direct inevitable reaction to capitalism."
Wrong. Fascism was a reaction to failing Marxism under Lenin, which made many turn into syndicalism. Mussolini was one of the first to comingle the phrase fascism with syndicalism, remarking in the early 1920s that “Fascist syndicalism is national and productivistic… in a national society in which labor becomes a joy, an object of pride and a title to nobility.” Most Italian syndicalists viewed social revolution as a means for rapid transformation to provide “superior productivity,” and if this economic abundance failed to occur, there could be no meaningful social change. The emphasis by syndicalists towards the importance of “producerism” had been originally initiated by Sorel in 1907, who argued that “Marx considers that a revolution by a proletariat of producers who [have] acquired economic capacity.” When Carlo Cafiero developed a compendium for the initial volume of Capital in Italian, Marx reminded his colleague that “material conditions necessary for the emancipation of the proletariat” must be “spontaneously generated by the development of capitalism (den Gang der kapitalistischen Produktion).”
The support for the theory of producerism expanded among Fascist syndicalists after the conclusion of the Russian Civil War and transition from war communism showed high unemployment and an environment where “most of the mills and factories were at a standstill; mines and collieries were wrecked and flooded.”
After the introduction of the New Economic Policy (NEP), Italian syndicalists continued to move further away from orthodox Marxism, determined to revise it to fit the changing times and to embolden its strategic goals. They argued that the Russian Bolsheviks had failed to adhere to Engels’ 1850 admonition about the dangers of trying to establish a social revolution within an economically backwards environment. This drift had emerged years before the economic malaise of Soviet Russia, prompting most Italian syndicalists to transcend the errors and drawbacks that “they believed they found in orthodox Marxism.” Developed to bring about worker control of the means of production by direct action, the intellectuals of syndicalism came to the realization that Italy's primitive economy could facilitate neither equality nor abundance for society. Without a mature industry developed by the bourgeois, they came to understand that a successful social revolution required the support of “classless” revolutionaries. Mussolini, along with Italian syndicalists, Nationalists and Futurists, contended that those revolutionaries would be Fascists, not Marxists or some other ideology. According to Mussolini and other syndicalist theoreticians, Fascism would be “the socialism of ‘proletarian nations.’”
Fascist syndicalists also became preoccupied with the idea of increasing production instead of simply establishing a redistributive economic structure. Sergio Panunzio, a major theoretician of Italian Fascism and syndicalism, believed that Syndicalists were producerists, rather than distributionists. In his criticism of the Bolsheviks’ handling of their economy, Panunzio also asserted that Russian Soviet state had become a “dictatorship over the proletariat, and not of the proletariat.”
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@gary2kr1 "the cult of traditionalism"
Not just any traditionalism. The whole point was to emulate the Roman Empire, where the State apparatus would be Caesar.
"Fascism means, in fact, the return to Order, to Authority, to Law; the return to the Roman conception of human Society, conception which those centuries of oblivion could obscure but never efface. ... Fascism is, in other words, intimately connected to Roman; its mission is the continuation of the mission of Rome; its heritage is the legacy of Rome. ...There are some things Rome symbolized in the golden age of its glory which were and still are of supreme significance to mankind; things of the spirit of an eternal and absolute value which Fascism wants restored to their rightful supremacy."
- the Philosophy of Fascism, Mario Palmieri, 1936
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"Samuel Rosander: Also, when someone tries to push the narrative that fascism is "a form of socialism (but..but..not the MARXIST form)," or other nonsense about how fascism is in any way a left-leaning system or doctrine...ask them what, EXACTLY, it has that distinguishes it as such. Not just one or two things it has in common, or the common claim that "fascism was born from socialism" (it was, but primitive communism was the first form of government, and all other forms were "born" from that, yet monarchy and other anti-communal forms of government are not forms of communism, primitive or otherwise), but structurally and ideologically, what puts it into the category that they claim."
Fascism was a political and economic system that rejected capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and communism, in which the means of production were organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism. Fascism was one of the branches of socialism, which advocated for centralized/planned economy, big government and government control over economy, businesses and people's personal liberties such as private property. Fascism opposed liberal capitalism, but also international socialism, hence the concept of a “third way,” their centralized economic policies obeyed collectivist and socialist principles, openly opposing capitalism and the free market, favoring nationalism and autarchy.
You won't be able to understand fascism without first understanding corporatism, syndicalism, and socialism, because fascism is essentially a combination of those three philosophies. Fascism is an extension of Marxist philosophy. Giovanni Gentile, who was a student of Karl Marx, concluded that Marxism was an untenable philosophy to base a new government on, therefore using Marxist philosophy as a base, he evolved the concept into a more centralized organization where the government was the center of all authority. So Fascism is based on the idea that the Government are the People and the call to Nationalism is actually a call to the authority of the Government.
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"Samuel Rosander: For example, all branches of socialism (not just Marxian) have, at their core, which is to say, THE BASIS OF THEIR DOCTRINE THAT DEFINES THEM AS SOCIALIST, communal democracy and some degree of mutualism. Ask them to explain why fascism falls into that category, particularly when Mussolini explicitly said that fascism is anti-democratic and places everyone as subservient to the (totalitarian, per his words) state."
Socialism has nothing to do with democracy. Socialism is an economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. Or simply, it advocates for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.
"Some still ask of us: what do you want? We answer with three words that summon up our entire program. Here they are…Italy, Republic, Socialization... Socialization is no other than the implantation of Italian Socialism…“
— Benito Mussolini, Speech given by Mussolini to a group of Milanese Fascist veterans (October 14, 1944)
The philosopher behind Mussolini's ideology, Giovanni Gentile, believed that all private action should be oriented to serve society. He was against individualism, for him there was no distinction between private and public interest. In his economic postulates, he defended compulsory state corporatism, wanting to impose an autarkic state (basically the same recipe that Hitler would use years later). A basic aspect of Gentile’s logic is that liberal democracy was harmful because it was focused on the individual which led to selfishness. He defended “true democracy” in which the individual should be subordinated to the State. In that sense, he promoted planned economies in which it was the government that determined what, how much, and how to produce.
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"Fasc ism is complicated."
No, not really. Fasc ism was a totalitarian far-left, socia list ideology based on national syndicalism. It was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose wasn't the promotion of private interest, but the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
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@communistmole : Well, Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@itcouldbelupus2842 : That actually is not so cialis m per se, that is M arxis m. Soc iali sm is a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. It does not care nor specify who should control the system. Only Ma rxi sm cares about the workers specifically controlling the means of production. Tot alita rian so ciali sm makes sense, because in order for any kind of soc ial ism to work, it needs to be enforced, which leads to soc iali zing / natio nali zing everything.
I already explained why fa scis m is le ft win g, because it is a form of so ciali sm. Again, fas cis m opposed liberal ca pitali sm, but also international soc iali sm, hence the concept of a “third way,” their centralized economic policies obeyed collectivist and so ciali st principles, openly opposing cap ital ism and the free market, favoring nat ionali sm and auta rchy.
Only you am uric ans think that it has something to do with rig ht wi ng, but here in Europe it has always been part of the le ft, due to so ciali sm.
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@ryandonahue2489 "Does a loose category created intellectually as an abstraction possess such definite, specific qualities that you can claim a form of government is fits in one category at once and none of the others?"
If we are talking about Fascism specifically, it was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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Wrong. Fascism had nothing to do with Right wing of any kind whatsoever, nor with Spain nor Germany. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@wodidos That is literally what the Fascists themselves said about it. From their "Philosophy of Fascism" by Mario Palmieri, 1936;
"The historical continuity of political forms, social organization, religious expression and spiritual aspirations, in the life of the Italian people, which had lasted two thousand years and had been broken only in the last few centuries of servitude to foreigners and their foreign ways of living, has been at last restored by Fascism, which is the direct heir of Roman traditions and of Roman ideals.
Fascism means, in fact, the return to Order, to Authority, to Law; the return to the Roman conception of human Society, conception which those centuries of oblivion could obscure but never efface.
Fascism is, in other words, intimately connected to Roman; its mission is the continuation of the mission of Rome; its heritage is the legacy of Rome.
There are some things Rome symbolized in the golden age of its glory which were and still are of supreme significance to mankind; things of the spirit of an eternal and absolute value which Fascism wants restored to their rightful supremacy."
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Except Fascism wasn't anti-socialism nor did they reject economic principles based on socialist frameworks. They specifically embraced them. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@nerag7459 "Fascism supports private property rights and the existence of a market economy and very wealthy individuals."
Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. Fascism didn't support private property and it made owning property conditional and dependent on bending the knee to the State apparatus. Individual ownership rights were understood to be strictly subordinate to collective discipline. It was not the individual ownership of property that concerned Fascists, but its subordination to collective control. Property was understood to perform social functions rather than to manifest individual rights. It was clear that the conception of property as a social function was broad enough to include socialization of the means of production, should that be required by the national interests as interpreted by the state.
Fascism opposed market based economies, since their whole ideology was based around the supremacy of the State apparatus, which would also decide what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid, for the benefit of the nation as a whole.
Fascism opposed wealthy individuals in their own way, because according to them, private wealth belongs not only to the individual, but in a symbolic sense, to the State as well.
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@Kurgan19XX "that that Nazi's were Fascists."
Wrong. Again, Nazis were National Socialists. Fascists were Fascists. Anyone who disagrees with this basic historical fact is not a credible source for this subject. Even Hitler, Goebbels, Mussolini etc. themselves, were very clear about this, that while they were "brothers in arms", they were fundamentally different ideologies.
"One might say that Fascism has reacted upon the creative life of the Italian people somewhat like sterilization. It is, after all, nothing like National Socialism. While the latter goes down to the roots, Fascism is only a superficial thing. That is regrettable, but one must recognize it clearly. National Socialism is really a way of life."
- Dr. Joseph Goebbels, The Goebbels Diaries
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@Kurgan19XX "Fascism is an Ultranationalist movement based around some mythical rebirth of the nation"
It wasn't about some random "mythical rebirth of the nation". They were very clear, that they wanted to bring back traditions and way related to the Roman Empire.
"Fascism means, in fact, the return to Order, to Authority, to Law; the return to the Roman conception of human Society, conception which those centuries of oblivion could obscure but never efface. Fascism is, in other words, intimately connected to Roman; its mission is the continuation of the mission of Rome; its heritage is the legacy of Rome. There are some things Rome symbolized in the golden age of its glory which were and still are of supreme significance to mankind; things of the spirit of an eternal and absolute value which Fascism wants restored to their rightful supremacy."
- Philosophy of Fascism, Mario Palmieri, 1936
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@Kurgan19XX "they had economic planning Command economy, the Nazi's had NOTHING of the like, they allowed businesses to make their own decisions, they didn't really nationalize anything,"
Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. Again, both Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy had a socialist Command economy. They didn't allow business to make their own decisions, since the government decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid. Both nationalized their industry and had one of the largest govenrment owned public sector throughout the 1930s.
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@Kurgan19XX "crushed Unions and Wages "
Every socialist regime did that. In fact, Hitler was simply imitating Lenin, who had earlier closed down all independent labor associations, factory committees and worker cooperatives, banned strikes, walkouts, and lockouts. Lenin even forced workers to work a slavish 80-hour week. After the Bolsheviks banned all labor unions, one unionist “described the unions as ‘living corpses.’” Any Russian worker who participated in general strikes was arrested, imprisoned or shot. Under Lenin’s regime, workers had no real representation or bargaining rights and were treated like industrial serfs who were chained to their factories. Although Hitler followed Lenin’s nationalizing craze, his treatment of workers did not mimic their Russian counterparts.
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@Kurgan19XX "you also have no idea what Capitalism and Socialism are either,"
Both are economic systems;
Capitalism, based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets, price systems, private property, property rights recognition, voluntary exchange, and wage labor.
Socialism, based on collective (such as workers, guilds, the government etc.) ownership or control of buildings and tools that make goods and services like farms and factories. This can be achieved through decentralized and direct worker-ownership, or through centralized state-ownership or control of the means of production.
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Nobody is living in Fascism nor is there such a thing as "late Fascism" in the first place. Fascism hasn't been a thing since the WW2 era. It was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@taranullius9221 : " he did not give workers any kind of control over their production or say in their workplace." ... correct, because that would be marxism which Adolf was against. Adolf promoted state socialism, not marxism. Both Adolf and Mussolini were simply imitating Lenin, who had earlier closed down all independent labor associations, factory committees and worker cooperatives, banned strikes, walkouts, and lockouts. Lenin even forced workers to work a slavish 80-hour week. After the Bolsheviks banned all labor unions, one unionist “described the unions as ‘living corpses.’” Any Russian worker who participated in general strikes was arrested, imprisoned or shot. Under Lenin’s regime, workers had no real representation or bargaining rights and were treated like industrial serfs who were chained to their factories. Although Hitler and Mussolini followed Lenin’s nationalizing craze, their treatment of workers did not mimic their Russian counterparts.
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@taranullius9221 : "He left the capital class alone," ... no, Ad olf was strictly against capita lism and the bourg eoisie. He promoted planned economies in which it was the government that determined what, how much, and how to produce. That is why he sought out to natio nalize almost every aspect of the Germ an life.
"A strong State will see that production is carried on in the national interests, and, if these interests are contravened, can proceed to expropriate the enterprise concerned and take over its administration.“
— Adolf H itl er, As quoted in Hi tl er and I, Otto Strasser, Boston, MA, Houghton Mifflin Company (1940) pp. 113-114 Other remarks
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Trump has nothing to do with Fascism whatsoever and that is not exactly the definition of Fascism either. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@07Flash11MRC : As I said, you do not understand the ideology and that is the problem here. Fa sc is m opposed liberal capitalism, but also international so ci alis m, hence the concept of a “third way,” their centralized economic policies obeyed collectivist and so ci ali st principles, openly opposing cap itali sm and the free market, favoring nat iona lism and aut archy. According to the father of fa scis m, Giov anni Gen tile, their ideology was a form of so ci alis m, sta tis m and ex tre me co lle ctivi sm. Hence, fa r-le ft ideology.
"It is necessary to distinguish between so cia lis m and so cial is m—in fact, between idea and idea of the same so ci alis t conception, in order to distinguish among them those that are inimical to F as cis m. It is well known that Sorellian sy ndica lism, out of which the thought and the political method of Fa sc is m emerged—conceived itself the genuine interpretation of Ma rxi st com mu nis m. The dynamic conception of history, in which force as violence functions as an essential, is of unquestioned Ma rxi st origin. Those notions flowed into other currents of contemporary thought, that have themselves, via alternative routes, arrived at a vindication of the form of S tat e—implacable, but absolutely rational—that finds historic necessity in the very spiritual dynamism through which it realizes itself.“
— Giovanni Gentile, Che cosa è il fas cis mo: Discorsi e polemiche (“What is Fa scis m?”), Florence: Vallecchi, (1925) pp. 42-45, 47-48, 49-51, 56,Origins and Doctrine of Fa sci sm, A. James Gregor, translator and editor, Transaction Publishers, 2003, p. 59
"Some still ask of us: what do you want? We answer with three words that summon up our entire program. Here they are…Italy, Republic, Soc ializa tion... Soc ializa tion is no other than the implantation of Italian So cia li sm…“
— Benito Mus soli ni, Speech given by Mu ssol ini to a group of Milanese Fa sci st veterans (October 14, 1944), quoted in Revolutionary F asc is m, Erik Norling, Lisbon, Finis Mundi Press (2011) pp.119-120. 1940s
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@rschloch : I find it interesting when it comes to Mu ssol ini and Ad olf, usually lef tist amu rica ns go face first into bi ase d sources and different dictionaries while both had their manifestos and autobiographies and doctrines where they clearly explain their world view and ideology. But alas, when it comes to someone like Ma rx and Eng els, their writings are solid gold, can be taken at face value and are beyond critique.
So no, it doesn't depend on whose defining the meaning. As I said, it is not up to us to define their ideology when they were perfectly capable doing it themselves hence they wrote manifestos for crying out loud. "Dictionary" definitions don't typically confine fa sc is m to Mu sso lini because it's easier to spread propaganda this way, when you can lump almost everyone under the same name given the proper circumstances. That way they don't have to explain why someone like Ad o lf constantly considered himself a so cia li st, nor why Musso lini also did the same.
So yes, you are reaching if you try to argue that the meaning of fas cis m isn’t strictly confined to Mu sso lini and Italy, since nobody else followed 'the doctrine of fa scis m" or the writings of Giov anni Gen tile, who came up with the ideology in the first place for Mu ssol ini to put into action.
Both fas cis m and na zis m were clearly far le ft-win g, soc iali st regimes. Both ideologies opposed liberal cap italis m, but also international soc iali sm, hence the concept of a “third way,” their centralized economic policies obeyed collectivist and so cial ist principles, openly opposing capi tali sm and the free market, favoring nationalism and autarchy.
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@Javdoc : Wrong. Here is what constitutes as Fascism; it was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@dragonslair951167 : "You know Fa sc ist Italy engaged in mass priva tization, not central planning, right?"
Incorrect. There was no "privatization". They mass nationalized the industry and economy, from which Mussolini nationalized 75%.
They shar ed 95% of the same economic policies as the U SS R.
"We are, in other words, a state which controls all forces acting in nature. We control political forces, we control moral forces we control economic forces, therefore we are a full-blown Corporative state. We stand for a new principle in the world, we stand for sheer, categorical, definitive antithesis to the world of democracy, plutocracy, free-masonry, to the world which still abides by the fundamental principles laid down in 1789."
- The doctrine of Fa scis m, Speech before the new National Directory of the Party, April 7, 1926
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@dragonslair951167 : "fa sci sts were pretty big proponents of free ma rket ca pitali sm. "
Incorrect. Both Hi tler and Muss olini were a nti-ca pital ists and ha rd co re soc ialis ts. Both opp osed libe ral capita lism, but also international so cialis m, hence the concept of a “third way,” their centralized economic policies obeyed col lectiv ist and soc iali st principles, openly opposing capit alism and the fre e mar ket, favoring na tionalism and autar chy.
Hit ler saw both bolsh evism and capit alism as a "Jew ish ploy" to take over Germany. Muss olini and fa scis m in general was against individualism and believed that the state should be the be-all and end-all when it comes to humanity itself.
"The Fascist State directs and controls the entrepreneurs, whether it be in our fisheries or in our heavy industry in the Val d'Aosta. There the State actually owns the mines and carries on transport, for the railways are state property. So are many of the factories… We term it state intervention… If anything fails to work properly, the State intervenes. The capitalists will go on doing what they are told, down to the very end. They have no option and cannot put up any fight. Capital is not God; it is only a means to an end.“
— Ben ito Mus solini, As quoted in Talks with Mussolini, Emil Ludwig, Boston, MA, Little, Brown and Company (1933)
"In this tremendous and truly historical uprising of the nations we are all now taking our part, some of us as leaders, others as actors or performers. On one side we find the exponents of democracy, that is Jewish capitalism with all its deadweight of obsolete political theories and parliamentary corruption, its out-moded social order, the Jewish brain trust, the Jewish newspapers, stock exchanges and banks, a concern of mixed political and economic profiteers of the worst order, arm in arm with the Bolshevist state.“
— Ad olf Hit ler, “Speech to the Reichstag Assuming New Powers” April 26, 1942
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Robert Paxton was wrong, and made up a random definition similar to Umberto Eco, where the definition is so vague that it can be applied to any and every totalitarian and dictatorial regime.
In reality and historically, Fascism was totalitarian, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself.
To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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Wrong. That Wiki copy/paste has nothing to do with the definition of Fascism, and Fascism had nothing to do with Right wing of any kind whatsoever. It was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@EricLeafericson "& Mussolini wasn't serious about somehow bringing the Roman Empire back in 20th century."
It was nonetheless part of the Fascist ideology, as stated in their "Philosophy of Fascism" by Mario Palmieri (1936);
"The historical continuity of political forms, social organization, religious expression and spiritual aspirations, in the life of the Italian people, which had lasted two thousand years and had been broken only in the last few centuries of servitude to foreigners and their foreign ways of living, has been at last restored by Fascism, which is the direct heir of Roman traditions and of Roman ideals.
Fascism means, in fact, the return to Order, to Authority, to Law; the return to the Roman conception of human Society, conception which those centuries of oblivion could obscure but never efface.
Fascism is, in other words, intimately connected to Roman; its mission is the continuation of the mission of Rome; its heritage is the legacy of Rome.
There are some things Rome symbolized in the golden age of its glory which were and still are of supreme significance to mankind; things of the spirit of an eternal and absolute value which Fascism wants restored to their rightful supremacy."
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@miguelvelez7221 "No. It's an opinion. "
Wrong. It is a fact. The ideology of Fascism was strictly pure Statism and anti-capitalistic, which they themselves point out in their "Doctrine of Fascism".
"Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of (classical) liberalism, both in the political and the economic sphere."
"The Fascist State lays claim to rule in the economic field no less than in others; it makes its action felt throughout the length and breadth of the country by means of its corporative, social, and educational institutions, and all the political, economic, and spiritual forces of the nation, organized in their respective associations, circulate within the State."
"The keystone of the Fascist doctrine is its conception of the State, of its essence, its functions, and its aims. For Fascism the State is absolute, individuals and groups relative. Individuals and groups are admissible in so far as they come within the State."
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Wrong definition (Wiki is not a credible source) as Fascism had nothing to do with Right wing of any kind whatsoever. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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