Comments by "Historia, Magistra Vitae" (@Historia.Magistra.Vitae.) on "TLDR News EU"
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@OatmealGrillBlazer "fascism is not a left-wing ideology, it is a right-wing ideology that sprung from ultra-nationalism,"
Still wrong. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@rullvardi : Fascism was based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@rullvardi "far-right framework characterized by extreme nationalism, authoritarianism, and rejection of egalitarianism."
None of those things are within the Far-Right framework. If we agree that Far-Left is characterized by socialism and collectivism in general, then logic dictates, that in return the Far-Right is characterized by capitalism and individualism. Therefore, people on the right believe that the best outcome for society is achieved when individual rights and civil liberties are paramount (individualism) and the role — and especially the power — of the government is minimized.
All that which limits individual power and increases group power is on the left.
All that which limits group power and gives civil freedoms and liberties to individuals is on the right.
Nationalism is a form of collectivism, and not advocated by the Right. In all Right wing ideologies, the Individual is superior to the State. In Leftist and especially in socialist ideologies the collective (such as the State) is superior to the individual.
While authoritarianism can happen on both sides, it certainly is utilized more by collectivist and socialist ideologies, who need to make sure that the "common good" of their group is prioritized over individuals and their profits for example. You rarely need authoritarianism to force people to live how they want to live, as long as they do not violate other's rights to do the same.
Egalitarianism, i.e. concept of social equality, for all people, has never been advocated by the Left either. They have always advocated for equity and prioritizing their own specific group over others. Marxism is a perfect example of this, since they only prioritize the proletarians and want to eliminate the "bourgeoisie" entirely. Meanwhile the Right certainly advocates equality of opportunity, and under the rule of law, i.e. that people deserve equal rights (Classical Liberalism).
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@seraphin01 ""Far-right politics, or right-wing extremism, is a spectrum of political thought that tends to be radically conservative, ultra-nationalist, and authoritarian, often also including nativist tendencies"
Pretty much the complete opposite. Conservatism itself doesn't mean anything since the term is relative and depends what the country considers traditional. Being ultra-nationalist is a Leftist trait, since nationalism itself is a form of collectivism. Also authoritarianism is usually the hallmark of collectivism, hence the Left.
If we agree that the Far-Left is represented by socialist and collectivist ideologies, then logic dictates, that the Far-Right would be represented by pro-Capitalist ideologies based on (Classical) Liberalism / Libertarianism, anti-establishment and limited government.
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@ittestnow : Hitler never abolished unions. He merged and nationalized them into one single super union known as the Deutsche Arbeitsfront (DAF, or German Labor Front). Still the biggest union ever created in Europe at least. The DAF created one single overarching labor union. Essentially all German workers and employees in every economic sector belonged to the DAF. For example, farmers were coordinated into the Reich Food Estate. While traditional unions prioritized workers’ rights, the DAF emphasized national economic goals above personal well-being.
Now if you want to talk about unions, well Hitler was merely imitating Lenin, who had earlier closed down all independent labor associations, factory committees and worker cooperatives, banned strikes, walkouts, and lockouts. Lenin even forced workers to work a slavish 80-hour week. After the Bolsheviks banned all labor unions, one unionist “described the unions as ‘living corpses.’” Any Russian worker who participated in general strikes was arrested, imprisoned or shot. Under Lenin’s regime, workers had no real representation or bargaining rights and were treated like industrial serfs who were chained to their factories. Although Hitler followed Lenin’s nationalizing craze, his treatment of workers did not mimic their Russian counterparts.
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@silviobleta "Everything regarding fascism is in complete antithesis to far-left ideologies, in literally every way, from the economic standpoints "
Wrong. First, Fascism and National Socialism were two fundamentally different, 3rd position socialist ideologies. Secondly, Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@silviobleta "at cost of workers under them that suffered horrendously due to union-busting,"
Both Fascists and National Socialists nationalized their unions. So called "union-busting" happened under every single socialist regime. In fact, both Hitler and Mussolini were simply imitating Lenin, who had earlier closed down all independent labor associations, factory committees and worker cooperatives, banned strikes, walkouts, and lockouts. Lenin even forced workers to work a slavish 80-hour week. After the Bolsheviks banned all labor unions, one unionist “described the unions as ‘living corpses.’” Any Russian worker who participated in general strikes was arrested, imprisoned or shot. Under Lenin’s regime, workers had no real representation or bargaining rights and were treated like industrial serfs who were chained to their factories. Although Hitler and Mussolini followed Lenin’s nationalizing craze, their treatment of workers did not mimic their Russian counterparts.
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@d.b.2215 : Both were totalitarian Far-Left, socialist 3rd position ideologies, and they came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society.
Go read some history;
Fascism;
- "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
- "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
- "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
- "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
- "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
- "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
- "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
National Socialism;
- "Mein Kampf" by Hitler
- "Hitler's National Socialism" by Rainer Zitelmann
- "the Vampire Economy" by Günter Reimann
- "Omnipotent Government: The Rise of the Total State and Total War" by Ludwig Von Mises
- "Hitler's True Believers" by Robert Gellately
- "The Cause of Hitler's Germany" by Leonard Peikoff
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@jeyna8243 "Fascism isn't socialism, where did you get that."
Wrong. It most certainly was, and that's a historical fact. It was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist no less, called Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@SkyForceOne2 "fascism is far right,"
Wrong. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@EA-js1me "Ultranationalism, irredentism, isolationism, statism, militarism, authoritarianism, conspiracy theories like anti-vax, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia, and “Christian values” whatever that means… but no, definitely not far-right."
Only isolationism is a Far-Right characteristics out of the things you mentioned btw.
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@Teemustaja " I genuinely think they don't know what fascism is."
Luckily I can educate people about Fascism; it was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@Teemustaja "Source: Main kampf, Giovanni Gentile, Sinimusta liike, Golden Dawn, Mussolinis essays"
Both Hitler and Mussolini self-identified as socialists, Giovanni Gentile also, who was the philosopher behind Mussolini's Fascism. I can give you more sources;
Fascism;
- "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
- "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
- "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
- "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
- "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
- "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
- "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
National Socialism;
- "Mein Kampf" by Hitler
- "Hitler's National Socialism" by Rainer Zitelmann
- "the Vampire Economy" by Günter Reimann
- "Omnipotent Government: The Rise of the Total State and Total War" by Ludwig Von Mises
- "Hitler's True Believers" by Robert Gellately
- "The Cause of Hitler's Germany" by Leonard Peikoff
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@lupus3824 "And after gaining power, what did we see? Privatization, the exact opposite of state control and planning."
Wrong. There was no privatization of any kind. On the contrary, they mass nationalized the German industry and later reorganized all industries into corporations run by members of the Nazi Party. They even coined a word for their nationalization, known as "Gleichschaltung", a system of totalitarian control and coordination over all aspects of German society from the economy and trade associations to the media, culture and education. In a report prepared by an SS Hauptsturmführer in July 1944, the question “Why does the SS engage in business activities?” was answered as follows:
"This question was raised specifically by circles who think purely in terms of capitalism and who do not like to see companies developing which are public, or at least of a public character. The age of the liberal system of business demanded the primacy of business, in other words business comes first, and then the state. As opposed to this, National Socialism takes the position: the state directs the economy, the state is not there for business, business is there for the state."
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@AppleAirsoft "Fascist apologist lines like that crumble when put against basic ideological fact or political science, "
That was merely a historical fact. Nothing more, nothing less. Fascism was totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@РевольверВалентайн " Fascist ideology, for example, is right-wing, despite the implication of having a powerful government. Because the fascist government is only an instrument in the hands of a small group of industrial and financial capital."
Wrong. Fascism had nothing to do with Right wing of any kind whatsoever nor "industrial and finance capital". Stop reading some smooth brain Parenti and start reading actual history. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@JensErikAndreasen Also when it comes to their name, they called the party as such, because they were advocating for socialism on a national level.
"The first three principles were clear, and they are inseparable from each other. Socialism as the final concept of duty, the ethical duty of work, not just for oneself but also for one’s fellow man’s sake, and above all the principle: Common good before own good, a struggle against all parasitism and especially against easy and unearned income. And we were aware that in this fight we can rely on no one but our own people. We are convinced that socialism in the right sense will only be possible in nations and races that are Aryan, and there in the first place we hope for our own people and are convinced that socialism is inseparable from nationalism. (Loud applause)
To be nationalist does not mean for us to belong to one party or another, but to show with every action that one benefits the people; it means love for all the people without exception.From this point of view we will realize that it is necessary to preserve the most precious thing a people has, the sum of all active creative powers of its workers, to keep it healthy in body and soul.(Cheers) And this view of nationalism compels us to immediately form a front against its opposite, the Semitic conception of the idea of people (Volk), and especially against the Semitic concept of work. Since we are socialists, we must necessarily also be antisemites because we want to fight against the very opposite: materialism and mammonism. (Lively bravo!)
And when today the Jew still runs into our factories and says: How can you be a socialist antisemite? Are not you ashamed? – there comes a time in which we will ask: How can you not be an antisemite, being a socialist! (Hear, hear) There comes a time when it will be obvious that socialism can only be carried out accompanied by nationalism and antisemitism. The three concepts are inseparably connected. They are the foundations of our program and therefore we call ourselves National Socialists. (Cheers)"
— "Why We Are Anti-Semites" (August 15, 1920 speech in Munich at the Hofbräuhaus).
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@dyne313 "Fascism IS NOT left wing ... Fascism is a far right ideology."
Wrong. It was, a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@dyne313 "Yo, Hitler wasn't a fan of trade unions ... That's like a hallmark of "Left Wing"."
No socialist regime was a fan them. Every single socialist regime shut down independent unions. Not sure how Hitler is related to this conversation, but interestingly enough, both Hitler and Mussolini were simply imitating Lenin, who had earlier closed down all independent labor associations, factory committees and worker cooperatives, banned strikes, walkouts, and lockouts. Lenin even forced workers to work a slavish 80-hour week. After the Bolsheviks banned all labor unions, one unionist “described the unions as ‘living corpses.’” Any Russian worker who participated in general strikes was arrested, imprisoned or shot. Under Lenin’s regime, workers had no real representation or bargaining rights and were treated like industrial serfs who were chained to their factories. Although Hitler and Mussolini followed Lenin’s nationalizing craze, their treatment of workers did not mimic their Russian counterparts.
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