Comments by "Historia, Magistra Vitae" (@Historia.Magistra.Vitae.) on "PragerU"
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Your professor was wrong. Fascism had no markets, as they had a socialist Command economy. They explicitly were against any kind of a Market based economic system and economic liberalism in general. These are just few examples from their own "Doctrine of Fascism";
"Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and the economic sphere."
"If liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells State. The Fascist State is, however, a unique and original creation. It is not reactionary but revolutionary, in that it anticipates the solution of certain universal problems which have been raised elsewhere; in the political field by the splitting up of parties, the usurpation of power by parliaments, the irresponsibility of assemblies; in the economic field by the increasingly numerous and important functions discharged by trade unions and trade associations with their disputes and ententes, affecting both capital and labour; in the ethical field by the need felt for order, discipline, obedience to the moral dictates of the fatherland."
"Fascism desires the State to be strong and organic, based on broad foundations of popular support. The Fascist State lays claim to rule in the economic field no less than in others; it makes its action felt throughout the length and breadth of the country by means of its corporative, social, and educational institutions, and all the political, economic, and spiritual forces of the nation, organized in their respective associations, circulate within the State."
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"Fascism is a far-right, "
Wrong. Fascism had nothing to do with right wing of any kind whatsoever. On the contrary, it was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@darkhat11 "The Italian pro-war syndicalists prioritized maximizing national production to prepare the nation for war and rejected the tenants of socialism:"
They never rejected socialism. Mussolini was one of the first to comingle the phrase fascism with syndicalism, remarking in the early 1920s that “Fascist syndicalism is national and productivistic… in a national society in which labor becomes a joy, an object of pride and a title to nobility.” Most Italian syndicalists viewed social revolution as a means for rapid transformation to provide “superior productivity,” and if this economic abundance failed to occur, there could be no meaningful social change.The emphasis by syndicalists towards the importance of “producerism” had been originally initiated by Sorel in 1907, who argued that “Marx considers that a revolution by a proletariat of producers who [have] acquired economic capacity.” When Carlo Cafiero developed a compendium for the initial volume of Capital in Italian, Marx reminded his colleague that “material conditions necessary for the emancipation of the proletariat” must be “spontaneously generated by the development of capitalism (den Gang der kapitalistischen Produktion).”
The support for the theory of producerism expanded among Fascist syndicalists after the conclusion of the Russian Civil War and transition from war communism showed high unemployment and an environment where “most of the mills and factories were at a standstill; mines and collieries were wrecked and flooded.”
After the introduction of the New Economic Policy (NEP), Italian syndicalists continued to move further away from orthodox Marxism, determined to revise it to fit the changing times and to embolden its strategic goals. They argued that the Russian Bolsheviks had failed to adhere to Engels’ 1850 admonition about the dangers of trying to establish a social revolution within an economically backwards environment. This drift had emerged years before the economic malaise of Soviet Russia, prompting most Italian syndicalists to transcend the errors and drawbacks that “they believed they found in orthodox Marxism.”Developed to bring about worker control of the means of production by direct action, the intellectuals of syndicalism came to the realization that Italy's primitive economy could facilitate neither equality nor abundance for society. Without a mature industry developed by the bourgeois, they came to understand that a successful social revolution required the support of “classless” revolutionaries.Mussolini, along with Italian syndicalists, Nationalists and Futurists, contended that those revolutionaries would be Fascists, not Marxists or some other ideology. According to Mussolini and other syndicalist theoreticians, Fascism would be “the socialism of ‘proletarian nations.’”
Fascist syndicalists also became preoccupied with the idea of increasing production instead of simply establishing a redistributive economic structure. Sergio Panunzio, a major theoretician of Italian Fascism and syndicalism, believed that Syndicalists were producerists, rather than distributionists. In his criticism of the Bolsheviks’ handling of their economy, Panunzio also asserted that Russian Soviet state had become a “dictatorship over the proletariat, and not of the proletariat.”
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Wrong. Fascism had nothing to do with right wing of any kind whatsoever. On the contrary, it was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@darkhat11 "and Mussolini believed in a laissez-faire form of economics where the government didn't interfere in the economy :"
Wrong. They didn't believe in any kind of laissez-faire form of economics nor economic liberalism, which they clearly state in their 'Doctrine of Fascism'. This is specifically why they came up with the idea of their National Syndicalism i.e. Corporatism, where the idea was to let the state control and direct the economy from the top-down without itself owning the means of production.
"Fascism is definitely and absolutely opposed to the doctrines of liberalism, both in the political and the economic sphere."
"If liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells government. The Fascist State is, however, a unique and original creation. It is not reactionary but revolutionary, for it anticipates the solution of certain universal problems which have been raised elsewhere, in the political field by the splitting up of parties, the usurpation of power by parliaments, the irresponsibility of assemblies; in the economic field by the increasingly numerous and important functions discharged by trade unions and trade associations with their disputes and ententes, affecting both capital and labor; in the ethical field by the need felt for order, discipline, obedience to the moral dictates of patriotism."
"Fascism desires the State to be strong and organic, based on broad foundations of popular support. The Fascist State lays claim to rule in the economic field no less than in others; it makes its action felt throughout the length and breadth of the country by means of its corporative, social, and educational institutions, and all the political, economic, and spiritual forces of the nation, organized in their respective associations, circulate within the State."
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@blaizerhodes "I've seen it around the internet as a quote attributed to Gentile, but no one provides a source."
I doubt Gentile said it verbatim. However what Gentile did say in his works, for example;
“The Fascist, on the other hand, conceives philosophy as a philosophy of practice (”praxis”). That concept was the product of certain Marxist and Sorellian inspirations (many Fascists and the Duce, himself, received their first intellectual education in the school of Marx and Sorel)—as well as the influence of contemporary Italian idealistic doctrines from which Fascist mentality drew substance and achieved maturity."
"It is necessary to distinguish between socialism and socialism—in fact, between idea and idea of the same socialist conception, in order to distinguish among them those that are inimical to Fascism. It is well known that Sorellian syndicalism, out of which the thought and the political method of Fascism emerged—conceived itself the genuine interpretation of Marxist communism. The dynamic conception of history, in which force as violence functions as an essential, is of unquestioned Marxist origin. Those notions flowed into other currents of contemporary thought, that have themselves, via alternative routes, arrived at a vindication of the form of State—implacable, but absolutely rational—that finds historic necessity in the very spiritual dynamism through which it realizes itself."
Che cosa è il fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche (“What is Fascism?”), Florence: Vallecchi, (1925)
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Wrong. Fascism had nothing to do with right wing of any kind whatsoever. On the contrary, it was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@Murray Wilson: You have no clue what you are talking about. Giovanni Gentile certainly was a so ciali st, in fact, for awhile he was a professor teaching Ma rxis m. While critiquing Mar xism, he came across Sore lian synd icalism and started formulating Fas cis m, which Mussolini then put to practice. Fas cism was a fa r le ft tota litari an form of soc ialis m. Fasc ism opposed libe ral cap itali sm, but also international so ciali sm, hence the concept of a “third way,” their centralized economic policies obeyed collectivist and so cial ist principles, openly opposing cap itali sm and the free market, favoring nationalism and autarchy. Fas ci sm never opposed soc ialis m, it opposed ma rxis m.
Fa scis m is properly defined as the following: political and economic system that rejects ca pital ism, libe ralis m/de mocr acy, and co mm unis m, in which the means of production is organized by national wor ker synd icals (i.e. tra de unio ns), and the guiding philosophy of the state is Actual Idealism.
"The Fa sc ist, on the other hand, conceives philosophy as a philosophy of practice (”praxis”). That concept was the product of certain Mar xist and Sore llian inspirations (many Fas cis ts and the Duce, himself, received their first intellectual education in the school of Ma rx and Sorel)—as well as the influence of contemporary Italian idealistic doctrines from which Fa sci st mentality drew substance and achieved maturity.“
"It is necessary to distinguish between soc iali sm and so cialis m—in fact, between idea and idea of the same soc ial ist conception, in order to distinguish among them those that are inimical to Fa scis m. It is well known that Sorel lian syndic alism, out of which the thought and the political method of Fas ci sm emerged—conceived itself the genuine interpretation of Ma rxist co mmu nis m. The dynamic conception of history, in which force as violence functions as an essential, is of unquestioned Mar xist origin. Those notions flowed into other currents of contemporary thought, that have themselves, via alternative routes, arrived at a vindication of the form of State—implacable, but absolutely rational—that finds historic necessity in the very spiritual dynamism through which it realizes itself.“
—Giovanni Gentile
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@SharperWolf919 Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel (Sorelianism). It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@Mark-zk3gu ""After the Na zis took power, industries were privatized en masse. Several banks, shipyards, railway lines, shipping lines, welfare organizations, and more were privatized. The Na zi govern ment took the stance that enterprises should be in pri vate hands wherever possible. Sta te own ership was to be avoided unless it was absolutely necessary for rearmament or the war effort""
Incorrect. The na zis privatized nothing. On the contrary, not only did they abol ish priva te property, they also tried to nationalize everything from eco nomy to busine sses to people's personal lives. They called it Gleichschaltung, which was a process of coordination. It was designed to bring all aspects of Ger man life under Na zi control. From the single party state to the German Labor Front to the N azi-approved leisure activities offered by Str ength thro ugh Joy, almost no part of Ger man life remained untouched by Naz ism.
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@Mark-zk3gu : "...it's straight from the book dummy."
Which has no basis in reality. Again, not only did Hi tler officially abolish private property with the Reichstag Fire Decree, also in his table talks on September 3, 1942, Hi tler said that land was “national property, and in the end only given to the individual as a loan.” Hit ler only recognizes pri vate owne rship insofar as it is used acc ording to the principle “common benefit ahead of private benefit,” which means, concretely, insofar as land is used within the framework of the obj ectives set by the state. For Hitl er the principle of “common benefit ahead of private benefit” means that if it is necessary in the common interest, the state has the right at all times to decide the way, the extent to which, and when private ownership is used, and the common interest is, of course, defi ned by th e state.
Read better books.
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@robcrawford5165 "What class has Hi tler dispossessed?"
H itler didn't believe in classes at all. He outright rejected the idea.
"I am a German nationalist. This means that I proclaim my nationality. My whole thought and action belongs to it. I am a socialist. I see no class and no social estate before me, but that community of the Folk, made up of people who are linked by blood, united by a language, and subject to a same general fate. I love this Folk and hate only its majority of the moment, because I view the latter to be just as little representative of the greatness of my Folk as it is of its happiness."
"THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS CLASSES: THEY CANNOT BE. Class means caste and caste means race. If there are castes in India, well and good; there it is possible, for there there were formerly Aryans and dark aborigines. So it was in Egypt and in Rome. But with us in Germany where everyone who is a German at all has the same blood, has the same eyes, and speaks the same language, here there can be no class, here there can be only a single people and beyond that nothing else."
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@Regis Glass "again, thank you for acce pting Muss olini stated: "Fasci sm was born ... out of a profo und, perennial need of this our Ar yan and Mediterr anean race".".
That wasn't what he stated. He never said "our ar yan". He said "our Medite rranean and ary an", keepi ng them separ ate. The 'and' is there to make a sep aration bet ween Mediterranean and Ary an. He includes both, but doesn't tre at them as one and the sa me. Still, he ne ver made any refer ences to fas cism in that stat ement nor has he said that fascism would have advo cated for aryanism, and it didn't.
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@Regis Glass "thank you for accepting fasc ism is rig ht wi nged."
Wrong. Fasc ism was a br anch of f ar-le ft socia lism and sociali sm does not e xist on the right side, hun. Fasc ism was on the rig ht side of marx ism, nothing to do with rig ht wi ng of any kind whatso ever.
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@Regis Glass "for example, do modern conse rvatives see LG BT Q people (or minorities in general) as equal to them or do they see them as lesser, ie, pra ctice a hierarchy?"
Again, go ask your local modern cons ervatives. Also has nothing to do with hierarchies. While you are at it, also ans wer: a democratic run "blue" city where liberal values have been a thing for decades, are those values trad itional? Are those liberals in that city now conserv atives if they want to preserve those liberal values?
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Socialism; an economic system where the collective (such as workers, guilds, syndicates, unions, the government etc.) either directly own or control the buildings and tools that make goods and services like farms and factories. This can be achieved through decentralized and direct worker-ownership, or through centralized state-ownership or control of the means of production.
Fascism; totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism). Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State." As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
Communism; Socialist, Collectivist and Anarchist society, without a central government, classes and money. The end goal of Marxism.
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@flamu9183 "I responded to your false facts with the true fact that he privatized the economy. "
Nothing to do with facts as privatization was never a thing in Nazi Germany. On the contrary, there was only mass nationalization. Here is my comment about it again;
There was no privatization of any kind whatsoever. On the contrary, Nazis mass nationalized the German industry and brought it under strict State control. In fact, they even coined a word for this nationalization, "Gleichschaltung", a system of totalitarian control and coordination over all aspects of German society from the economy and trade associations to the media, culture and education.
"To put it quite clearly: we have an economic programme. Point No. 13 in that programme demands the nationalisation of all public companies, in other words socialisation, or what is known here as socialism. … the basic principle of my Party’s economic programme should be made perfectly clear and that is the principle of authority… the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overriding point. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me?… Today’s bourgeoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals any more; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil.“
— Adolf Hitler, Hitler's interview with Richard Breiting, 1931, published in Edouard Calic, ed.
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@regisglass5464: "it seems we agree both believed Aryans were superior to everyone else. Thus, what was the difference between Hitler and Mussolini's views in stating Aryans were superior to everyone else?"
Mussolini didn't believe in arya nism nor any kind of biological ra ce supremacy, at least according to his own words.
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@regisglass5464: "Likewise, as you claim ri ght wing views are about the individual, then what conservative entities have ever defended the individual rig hts of LGB TQ people as opposed to using the state to att ack them? For example, Flo rida wishes to institute genital checks because of their fear of tr ans people. "
Amu rican poli tics and Conse rvatism has nothing to do with this subject, especially the am urica n version. Again, conserva tism is relative. Is it too hard for you am urica ns to understand? Again, conservatism has nothing to do with this subject. Mussolini didn't consider his movement to be conservative. On the contrary, he claimed that the Italian Socia list Party was conservative.
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@regisglass5464: "But thank you for accepting the doctrine of fascis m states: "We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right,' a fa scist century"."
You still haven't learned to quote the whole paragraph. The fas cists wanted to move to the right from marx ism, not into the right side of the spectrum. Mussolini continues: "If the XIXth century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the "collective" century, and therefore the century of the State."
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@regisglass5464: "Thus, why do you believe the father of fas cism was mistaken about where his ideology lay?"
You are not making any sense. Both Giovanni Gentile and Mussolini explicitly state that fasc ism was a soci alist ideology based on national syndicalism.
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@AtariTheAnimator "The Na zis placed great emphasis on private property and free competition. "
No, they really didn't. On the contrary, they abolished private property rights. Article 153 of the Weimar Constitution guaranteed private property, with expropriation only to occur within the due process of the law, but this article was nullified by the Reichstag fire decree on Feb. 28, 1933. Also in Hitler's table talks on September 3, 1942, he said that land was “national property, and in the end only given to the individual as a loan.” Hi tler only recognized private property insofar as it was used according to the principle “common benefit ahead of private benefit,” which meant that if it was necessary in the common interest, the state had the right at all times to decide the way, the extent to which, and when private property was used, and the common interest was, of course, defined by the state.
Regarding competition, there really wasn't any since industry was nationalized, and later they reorganized all industries into corporations run by members of the Na zi Party.
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@Demaa18 "Also, "la Dottrina del Fascismo" was published in 1932, that's no "early fascism" ... do you care to explain how did precisley Gentile invented fascism, and NOT Mussolini, which literally created the first fascist political party/movement?"
Well actually it was written in 1927, by Giovanni. While he wasn't the only Fascist theoretician, he certainly was the one who worked closely with Mussolini and put the Hegelian philosophy into it. He gave a nod to Marinetti, when he proposed a more defined version of Fascism during 1925, stating:
"Great spiritual movements make recourse to precision when their primitive inspirations—what F. T. Marinetti identified this morning as artistic, that is to say, the creative and truly innovative ideas, from which the movement derived its first and most potent impulse—have lost their force. We today find ourselves at the very beginning of a new life and we experience with joy this obscure need that fills our hearts—this need that is our inspiration, the genius that governs us and carries us with it."
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@regisglass5464: "Odd, why is it irrelevant to fascism that conservatives attempted to remove your individual rights? "
There is no correlation between fascism and conservatism. Your question makes no sense.
/ / / / / /
@regisglass5464 " Then kindly provide the full paragraph."
Here you go:
"A party governing a nation “totalitarianly" is a new departure in history. There are no points of reference nor of comparison. From beneath the ruins of liberal, socialist, and democratic doctrines, Fascism extracts those elements which are still vital. It preserves what may be described as "the acquired facts" of history; it rejects all else. That is to say, it rejects the idea of a doctrine suited to all times and to all people. Granted that the XIXth century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the XXth century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the " right ", a Fascist century. If the XIXth century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the "collective" century, and therefore the century of the State. It is quite logical for a new doctrine to make use of the still vital elements of other doctrines. "
Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@KenH60109 "Gentile and Mussolini both poured over the fact that fascism was right-wing, "
Neither Gentile nor Mussolini has ever said such a thing. Gentile also makes it very clear that Fascism was born out of socialism, which is not a Right wing thing. If anything, both of them claimed Fascism to be part of the "3rd position" movement as they rejected both Capitalism and the Marxist interpenetration of socialism.
"The Fascist, on the other hand, conceives philosophy as a philosophy of practice (”praxis”). That concept was the product of certain Marxist and Sorellian inspirations (many Fascists and the Duce, himself, received their first intellectual education in the school of Marx and Sorel)—as well as the influence of contemporary Italian idealistic doctrines from which Fascist mentality drew substance and achieved maturity."
“It is necessary to distinguish between socialism and socialism—in fact, between idea and idea of the same socialist conception, in order to distinguish among them those that are inimical to Fascism. It is well known that Sorellian syndicalism, out of which the thought and the political method of Fascism emerged—conceived itself the genuine interpretation of Marxist communism. The dynamic conception of history, in which force as violence functions as an essential, is of unquestioned Marxist origin. Those notions flowed into other currents of contemporary thought, that have themselves, via alternative routes, arrived at a vindication of the form of State—implacable, but absolutely rational—that finds historic necessity in the very spiritual dynamism through which it realizes itself.”
— Giovanni Gentile, Che cosa è il fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche (“What is Fascism?”), Florence: Vallecchi, (1925) / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism, A. James Gregor, translator and editor, Transaction Publishers, 2003
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@KenH60109 "There's absolutely no debate here, fascism is inherently right wing, "
Wrong. Fascism had nothing to do with Right wing of any kind. It was objectively, a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism/democracy, and marxism. The means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism.
Fascism was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndicalism, which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
As created by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile, Fascism comes from a belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its dictatorship cannot achieve Socialism, and that only the State can properly organize a Socialist Society. It cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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@KenH60109 "workers strikes were immediately vaporized by the fascist parties, "
Both Hitler and Mussolini were simply imitating Lenin, who had earlier closed down all independent labor associations, factory committees and worker cooperatives, banned strikes, walkouts, and lockouts. Lenin even forced workers to work a slavish 80-hour week. After the Bolsheviks banned all labor unions, one unionist “described the unions as ‘living corpses.’” Any Russian worker who participated in general strikes was arrested, imprisoned or shot. Under Lenin’s regime, workers had no real representation or bargaining rights and were treated like industrial serfs who were chained to their factories. Although Hitler and Mussolini followed Lenin’s nationalizing craze, their treatment of workers did not mimic their Russian counterparts.
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"Fascism is a FAR-RIGHT populist political philosophy, movement, or authoritarian regime, a nationalist political ideology, characterized by severe social regimentation and by forcible suppression of the opposition by a dictatorial leader. "
Wrong. Fascism had nothing to do with Right wing of any kind whatsoever. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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z1 "the sys tem of economics most associated with fasc ism is Corpo ratism , not soci alism..."
Wrong. Corp oratism is not an economic system. Fas cist economy was based on socia lism and it was managed via corpora tism, which was a gover nment body that brought together federations of workers and employers syndicates belonging to the same profession and branch, to regulate production in a holistic manner. Each trade union would theoretically represent its professional concerns, especially by negotiation of labour contracts and the like.
The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose wasn't the promotion of private interest, but the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Muss olini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
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@kaneinkansas "Add to that: an ideology that merges corporate and state power into an oligarchic authoritarian system; it is impelled by the concentration of wealth and power by those who have wealth and power and do not want to share it. It makes use of other ideologies and systems, such as religious religiosity to consolidate and facilitate its perpetual ascendancy - it is, therefore, increasingly (over time) authoritarian in its practice. It will lie about its objectives if that facilitates its perpetuation. It views anything that is not fascist as communism/socialism."
This has very little to do with Fascism however, and is more aligned with Corporatocracy. The proper definition of Fascism is as follows: a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile*
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@regisglass5464 "Again, why pretend you provided a quote of the doctrine of fasc ism stating fasc ism is left wing? "
There is nothing to pretend. Mussolini himself said it was a left wing movement. Learn to read.
“Our programs are definitely equal to our revolutionary ideas and they belong to what in democratic regime is called “left”; our institutions are a direct result of our programs and our ideal is the Labor State. In this case there can be no doubt: we are the working class in struggle for life and death, against capitalism. We are the revolutionaries in search of a new order. If this is so, to invoke help from the bourgeoisie by waving the red peril is an absurdity. The real scarecrow, the real danger, the threat against which we fight relentlessly, comes from the right. It is not at all in our interest to have the capitalist bourgeoisie as an ally against the threat of the red peril, even at best it would be an unfaithful ally, which is trying to make us serve its ends, as it has done more than once with some success. I will spare words as it is totally superfluous. In fact, it is harmful, because it makes us confuse the types of genuine revolutionaries of whatever hue, with the man of reaction who sometimes uses our very language.”
- Benito Mussolini, Speech on April 22, 1945 in Milan.
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@johnnysheen9615 "Fascism is extreme Right wing politics."
Wrong. Fascism was neither extreme nor Right wing. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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"Fascism is right wing."
Wrong. Fascism had nothing to do with Right wing of any kind whatsoever. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
Nothing to do with Trump nor American politics in general. Get some help for your TDS.
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@Worldmisery "but you still can't find a quote anywhere that says that fascism generally speaking does not believe in peace, ... But yet you can't find a quote anywhere saying that Mussolini supported imperialism and opposed pacifism or peace?"
Sure I can, as there were plenty. Not sure how this is relevant to this discussion though. Form their "Doctrine of Fascism" for example;
"3. First of all, as regards the future development of mankind, and quite apart from all present political considerations, Fascism does not, generally speaking, believe in the possibility or utility of perpetual peace. It therefore discards pacifism as a cloak for cowardly supine renunciation in contradistinction to self-sacrifice. War alone keys up all human energies to their maximum tension and sets the seal of nobility on those peoples who have the courage to face it. All other tests are substitutes which never place a man face to face with himself before the alternative of life or death. Therefore all doctrines which postulate peace at all costs are incompatible with Fascism. Equally foreign to the spirit of Fascism, even if accepted as useful in meeting special political situations—are all internationalistic or League superstructures which, as history shows, crumble to the ground whenever the heart of nations is deeply stirred by sentimental, idealistic or practical considerations. Fascism carries this anti-pacifistic attitude into the life of the individual. "I do not care" (me ne frego)—the proud motto of the fighting squads scrawled by a wounded man on his bandages, is not only an act of philosophic stoicism, it sums up a doctrine which is not merely political: it is evidence of a fighting spirit which accepts all risks. It signifies new style of Italian life. The Fascist accepts and loves life; he rejects and despises suicide as cowardly. Life as he understands it means duty, elevation, conquest; life must be lofty and full, it must be lived for oneself but above all for others, both near bye and far off, present and future."
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@regisglass5464: "where does it state it supports right wing soc ialism"
There is no such thing as "right wing soci alism", there is just different socialist ideologies. Fas cism was one of nationalistic branches, and had no problems with soci alism as long as it was used within the State and was not against the state, as said in their 'Doctrine of Fas cism'.
"Fasc ism is therefore opposed to Socia lism to which unity within the State (which amalgamates classes into a single economic and ethical reality) is unknown, and which sees in history nothing but the class struggle. Fasc ism is likewise opposed to trade unionism as a class weapon. But when brought within the orbit of the State, Fas cism recognizes the real needs which gave rise to socialism and trade unionism, giving them due weight in the guild or corporative system in which divergent interests are coordinated and harmonized in the unity of the State."
/ / / / / /
@regisglass5464: "as you agree the doctrine of fas cism explicitly states it is right wing "
Wrong. It states no such thing. It says "ten ding to the ri g ht" i.e. moving to the rig ht from marxi sm that is, since they claimed to be part of the "3rd position" movement; between marxism/bolshevism and capitalism.
/ / / / / /
@regisglass5464: "Note you even write fasc ism opposes individual rights while Ma rxism focuses on the rights of workers, eg, all individuals should have rights and not just the powerful."
Marxism doesn't care about the individuals, it only cares about the proletarians. They want the bourgeoisie to be dead. Both fas cism and marx ism are collectivist ideologies and oppose individual rights.
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@regisglass5464 "Then kindly quote where it explicitly states as such."
Gentile:
"The Fascist, on the other hand, conceives philosophy as a philosophy of practice (”praxis”). That concept was the product of certain Marxist and Sorellian inspirations (many Fascists and the Duce, himself, received their first intellectual education in the school of Marx and Sorel)—as well as the influence of contemporary Italian idealistic doctrines from which Fascist mentality drew substance and achieved maturity.“
"It is necessary to distinguish between socialism and socialism—in fact, between idea and idea of the same socialist conception, in order to distinguish among them those that are inimical to Fascism. It is well known that Sorellian syndicalism, out of which the thought and the political method of Fascism emerged—conceived itself the genuine interpretation of Marxist communism. The dynamic conception of history, in which force as violence functions as an essential, is of unquestioned Marxist origin. Those notions flowed into other currents of contemporary thought, that have themselves, via alternative routes, arrived at a vindication of the form of State—implacable, but absolutely rational—that finds historic necessity in the very spiritual dynamism through which it realizes itself.“
— Che cosa è il fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche (“What is Fascism?”), Florence: Vallecchi, (1925)
/ / / / / /
Mussolini:
"Some still ask of us: what do you want? We answer with three words that summon up our entire program. Here they are…Italy, Republic, Socialization... Socialization is no other than the implantation of Italian Socialism…“
— Speech given by Mussolini to a group of Milanese Fascist veterans (October 14, 1944)
“Our programs are definitely equal to our revolutionary ideas and they belong to what in democratic regime is called “left”; our institutions are a direct result of our programs and our ideal is the Labor State. In this case there can be no doubt: we are the working class in struggle for life and death, against capitalism. We are the revolutionaries in search of a new order. If this is so, to invoke help from the bourgeoisie by waving the red peril is an absurdity. The real scarecrow, the real danger, the threat against which we fight relentlessly, comes from the right. It is not at all in our interest to have the capitalist bourgeoisie as an ally against the threat of the red peril, even at best it would be an unfaithful ally, which is trying to make us serve its ends, as it has done more than once with some success. I will spare words as it is totally superfluous. In fact, it is harmful, because it makes us confuse the types of genuine revolutionaries of whatever hue, with the man of reaction who sometimes uses our very language.”
— Speech given by Mussolini on April 22, 1945 in Milan
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@regisglass5464 "Apologies, you didn't. Or why not provide it again?"
Learn to read.
"The Fascist, on the other hand, conceives philosophy as a philosophy of practice (”praxis”). That concept was the product of certain Marxist and Sorellian inspirations (many Fascists and the Duce, himself, received their first intellectual education in the school of Marx and Sorel)—as well as the influence of contemporary Italian idealistic doctrines from which Fascist mentality drew substance and achieved maturity.“
"It is necessary to distinguish between socialism and socialism—in fact, between idea and idea of the same socialist conception, in order to distinguish among them those that are inimical to Fascism. It is well known that Sorellian syndicalism, out of which the thought and the political method of Fascism emerged—conceived itself the genuine interpretation of Marxist communism. The dynamic conception of history, in which force as violence functions as an essential, is of unquestioned Marxist origin. Those notions flowed into other currents of contemporary thought, that have themselves, via alternative routes, arrived at a vindication of the form of State—implacable, but absolutely rational—that finds historic necessity in the very spiritual dynamism through which it realizes itself.“
— Che cosa è il fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche (“What is Fascism?”), Florence: Vallecchi, (1925)
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@regisglass5464: "Thus my query, does this mean he supports rig ht wing soci alism per you quoting It is necessary to distinguish between soci alism and soci alism ?"
There are no left/right wing social ism. There is just different socialist ideol ogies. Fas cism was one of nationalistic branches, and had no problems with soci alism as long as it was used within the State and was not against the state, as said in their 'Doctrine of Fas cism'.
/ / / / / /
@regisglass5464: "Still odd you avoid writing of where he state fascism is left wing ... Again, where does it state fascism is left winged? Still odd you avoid this"
Already wrote the quote. Learn to read.
“Our programs are definitely equal to our revolutionary ideas and they belong to what in democratic regime is called “left”; our institutions are a direct result of our programs and our ideal is the Labor State. In this case there can be no doubt: we are the working class in struggle for life and death, against capitalism. We are the revolutionaries in search of a new order. If this is so, to invoke help from the bourgeoisie by waving the red peril is an absurdity. The real scarecrow, the real danger, the threat against which we fight relentlessly, comes from the right. It is not at all in our interest to have the capitalist bourgeoisie as an ally against the threat of the red peril, even at best it would be an unfaithful ally, which is trying to make us serve its ends, as it has done more than once with some success. I will spare words as it is totally superfluous. In fact, it is harmful, because it makes us confuse the types of genuine revolutionaries of whatever hue, with the man of reaction who sometimes uses our very language.”
— Speech given by Mussolini on April 22, 1945 in Milan
/ / / / / /
@regisglass5464: "Thank you for thus acce pting their economy was capita list."
Wrong. Corporatism had nothing to do with capitalism. They had socia list economy which they managed via corporatism.
/ / / / / /
@regisglass5464: "Seems odd you believe corporations are capitalist though."
We aren't talking about corpor ations. We are talking about corp oratism. Learn the diffe rence, amu rican.
/ / / / / /
@regisglass5464: "then why did they advocate for it?"
They didn't.
/ / / / / /
@regisglass5464: "But thank you for accepting the Naz is did, ie, fas cist Germany"
There was no fasci st Germany. They had nazi sm, not fasc ism. Those are two different socia list ideologies.
/ / / / / /
@regisglass5464: "But thank you for backtracking on stating fas cism expli citly states it is l eft win g."
There is no backtracking. Mussolini himself states as such, which you can read from the earlier quote. Also socia lism is left wi ng which makes fasc ism a le ft wing movement due to socia lism alone.
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@Brett McNear : "It's hilarious that you think dictionaries are incorrect."
Not so long ago certain americans tried to change the definition of a recession so... would not be the first time when things have been changed retroactively.
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@Brett McNear : "It's not just dictionaries that say fa scism is a rig ht-win g political ideology; it's a well-known, obvious fact when you look at what fasc ism is... It's a form of f ar-right"
Only certain americans are trying to claim that f asci sm "is a rig ht-wi ng political ideology" in general.
There is nothing right wing about an ideology which wants the State to rule supreme over economy, businesses and people's personal lives. That is exactly the opposite of what right wi ng politics is about. The fundamental differences between l eft-wi ng and rig ht-wi ng ideologies center around the the rights of individuals vs. the power of the go vernment. Left-wi n g beliefs are liberal in that they believe society is best served with an expanded role for the government. People on the rig ht believe that the best outcome for society is achieved when individual rights and civil liberties are pa ramount and the role — and especially the power — of the govern ment is minimized.
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@Brett McNear : "Fasc ism was initially born out of social Dar win ism, based on the premise that only the fittest should survive."
Incorrect. It has nothing to do with "soc ial darwinis m" whatsoever. It was born out of m arxi sm, sorelian synd icali sm and hege lian philosophy. It was based on a premise that the (fas cist) State is the be-all and end-all of human existence. According to the 'doctrine of f asci sm':
"Anti-individualistic, the Fa scist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only in so far as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal, will of man as a historic entity. It is opposed to classical liber alism which arose as a reaction to absolutism and exhausted its historical function when the St ate became the expression of the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the name of the individual; Fasc ism reasserts the rights of the State as expressing the real essence of the individual."
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@Brett McNear : "ultra-nationalism characterized by centralized authoritarian power"
Just like every socia list government, like the US SR ... and "ul tra-nat ional ism" is not a thing. It was just natio nalism.
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@Brett McNear : "anti-intellectualism, hyper-masculinity, "
Incorrect. On the contrary, again, it was based on hegelian philosophy and they also supported women in the work force and according to their manifesto, they wanted women to have the ability to vote. "Hyper-masculinity" is not a thing, and was not a thing in f ascis m.
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@Brett McNear : "rac ial supremacy involving the rebirth of ethnic pu rity and quasi-religious pride"
Incorrect. Fas cis m didn't believe in ra ce or et hnonation alism. Hi tler and his na zism believed in that.
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@Brett McNear : " It will often be implemented through a merger of the corporate sector with the state to nullify trade unionism and social welfare programmes."
Incorrect. There was no such thing as "merging corporate sector with the state". On the contrary, state controlled businesses and Mussolini nationalized over 75% of the Italian industry. Trade unionism was the core principle how fascism worked, better known as corporatism / fascist syndicalism. Fascism was also advocating FOR welfare programs due to the socialist nature of their ideology. It can't be that hard to go and read their manifesto.
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@Brett McNear : " The first people Hit ler sent to the de ath camps were soc ial ists"
Incorrect. Hit ler was a so cial ist himself. The first people he sent were the marx ists. Need to point out that Hitl er has nothing to do with fasc ism though.
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@Brett McNear : "He crushed labour unions and diverted public money to financial elites."
Incorrect. Hitler abolished private unions which he nationalized and merged under one single nation wide union. Also on the contrary, Hit ler was vigilant in keeping many of his promises to labor. Under the newly created German Labor Front (DAF), the Na zis set high wages, overtime pay was generous, and dismissal of workers by employers was difficult to execute, but inflation and stricter labor laws eroded much of that advantage. Headed by Robert Ley, the German Labor Front preferred nationalized enterprises over privately owned companies since it held a bias against lib eral ca pital ism. But its main mission was also to satisfy workers enough to prevent rebellion against both industrialists and the national soci alist state.
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@Brett McNear : "The only thing remotely similar to le ft-wi ng philosophy in fa scis m is the idea of collectivism; everything else about fa scis m is extremely ri ght-w ing."
Incorrect. Both f ascis m and na zis m were economically more or less the same as the US SR was under Lenin and Stalin. They shared 95% of the same economic policies.
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@Brett McNear : "PS. What does Tick Tock have to do with any of this? "
Because that's is from where you are getting your info it seems ... you don't even understand the difference between naz ism and fasc ism and keep conflating the two, while they are 2 completely separate ideologies.
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@Brett McNear : "There is no fas cist manifesto like we have a com munist manifesto from M arx. "
Incorrect. There are 2 manifestos in fact. You are just lazy like the rest of the low in forma tion am u rica ns. You can find their m anife sto from W iki under the name "The Manifesto of the Italian Fa sc es of Combat". Or you can read the "the Doctrine of Fas cism " by Mus solini and Giova nni Genti le which outlines the whole fa sci st ideology.
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@Brett McNear : "Fasc ism has evolved through time and has appeared slightly differently with each iteration"
Incorrect. Fas cism has not evolved anywhere and has only appe ared once, during the W W2 era under Musso lini, formulated by a soci alist philosopher Gio vanni Gentile.
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@Brett McNear : "I thought by my previous comment, it would be evident that I'm not Ame rican. I can't believe you would think I was."
I didn't say that you are an am erican. I said you are la zy like the low infor mation ameri cans who cannot be bothered to read actu al history bef ore commenting.
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@Brett McNear : "Speaking of terms, we need to address the difference between Fas cism and fasc ism. Fasc ism (with a capital F) refers to Fas cism under Muss olini, which was indeed based on the writing s of Giovan ni Gent ile and referred to the specific doctrine implemented under Mussol ini's reign. The other, more general use of the term fas cism (with a lowercase f) is more widely used to explain the many iterations of fasci sm that followed. There are obvious differences betwe en Hit ler and Mussoli ni, but to suggest Hit ler was not fasc ist is out of step with reality."
Incorrect. There is no difference between Fasc ism and fasc ism and FASC ISM and fAsCi Sm. There is only one type of fas cism, the Italian kind. There is no general use of the term fasc ism, since it is a very specific political ideology and philosophy. If you are using the term in a general way, you are doing it wrong. Hit ler was never a fas cist and never had anything to do with fas cism. He admired Mus solini's fas cism for sure, however he also criticized it in his autobiography "Mein Kampf". Hit ler was a national socia list and nazi sm was national sociali sm. Fas cism and nazi sm are 2 completely different socia list ideologies, practiced in 2 completely different coun tries and founded/form ulated by com pletely different people.
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@Brett McNear : "Fas cism and socia lism are diametrically oppo sed on everything exc ept collecti vism."
Incorrect. Fasc ism was diametrically opposed to marx ism, not soci alism which is nothing more than a colle ctivist econ omic system which both fas cism and mar xism used.
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@Brett McNear : "Soci alism advocates for equality, whereas fas cism is based on hier rchy."
Incorrect. Socia lism doesn't advocate for anything other than colle ctive owner ship of the means of produc tion, distribution and exchan ge. Equality has nothing to do with this. Also every single ideology that is based on a thing called the "sta te" or the "gover nment" are advocating for hierarc hies. Only ideologies that are opposing unjust hierarchies or hierarchies in general are anarch ism and com munism.
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@Brett McNear : "So ciali sm, on the other hand, is an ideology where individuals of a society own the means of production."
Incorrect. Again, it is not an ideo logy. It is an econ omic syst em where the society as a whole, or a collective, or a group, or a state, or a guild, or a syndicate, or a class owns the means of production, not the indivi duals. Indiv iduals owni ng the means of produ ction and their use for pro fit is the defi nition of capit alism.
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@Brett McNear : "A fasc ist ruler wields sup reme power and auth ority over a country."
There was no such ruler in fasci sm mind you. Muss olini had no sup reme po wer nor aut hority. Not only did Mus solini had to collaborate with the Pope, but he also was subservient to the King of Italy. Ironi cally, Muss olini was also democratically voted out from power. Meanwhile Hit ler had all the power and authority over the Na zi Germ any.
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@Brett McNear : "Muss olini was a socia list in his formative years, but like many young ideal istic intelle ctuals, he abandoned this philos ophy as he matured."
Incorrect. He never abandoned socia lism and was a devout socia list to the day he died. This is one of his last speeches on April 22, 1945 in Milan, before he was execu ted:
“Our progra ms are definitely equal to our revolutionary ideas and they belong to what in democ ratic regime is called “left”; our institutions are a direct result of our programs and our ideal is the Labor St ate. In this case there can be no doubt: we are the work ing cla ss in stru ggle for life and death, against ca pitalism. We are the revolutio naries in search of a new order. If this is so, to invoke help from the bourg eoisie by waving the re d peril is an absurdity. The real scare crow, the real dan ger, the threat against which we fight relentlessly, comes from the right. It is not at all in our interest to have the capi talist bourge oisie as an ally against the threat of the red pe ril, even at best it would be an unfaithful ally, which is trying to make us serve its ends, as it has done more than once with some success. I will spare words as it is totally superfluous. In fact, it is ha rmful, because it makes us confuse the types of genuine revolutio naries of whatever hue, with the man of react ion who sometimes uses our very language.”
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@Brett McNear : "There are plenty of left-win g hippies out there who believe in complete autonomy, free from gover nment intervention, and plenty of ri ght-wi ng control freaks who ban books, abortion and call for the state to implement "law and order""
Which is why there is no such thing as "le ft" or "rig ht" ... and nobody can ever decide if they want to keep using the modern post-French revolution terms or pre-French revolution terms. "le ft" and "ri ght" have no mea ning anymore, which is exactly why the political spectrum only makes sense within the Autho ritarian/Freed om axis.
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@technologicallyilliterate "The theory and praxis of fascism disagrees with you here. "
Wrong. It doesn't. This has been explicitly stated by multiple Fascist theoreticians, such as Mario Palmieri in his "The Philosophy of Fascism".
"Fascism, which is the very antithesis of Individualism, stands as the nemesis of all economic doctrines and all economic practice of both the capitalistic and the communistic systems. Fascism holds that:
1. The economic life of man cannot be abstracted and separated from the whole of his spiritual life. In the words of Mussolini: “The economic man does not exist. Man is integral; he is political, economic, religious, saint and warrior at the same time.”
2. The economic life of man is influenced, if not actually determined, by idealistic factors.
3. True economic progress can derive only from the concerted effort of individuals who know how to sacrifice their personal egoism and ambitions for the good of the whole.
4. Economic initiatives cannot be left to the arbitrary decisions of private, individual interests.
5. Open competition, if not wisely directed and restricted, actually destroys wealth instead of creating it.
6. The wealth of a community is something intangible which cannot be identified with the sum of riches of single individuals.
7. The proper function of the State in the Fascist system is that of supervising, regulating and arbitrating the relationships of capital and labor, employers and employees, individuals and associations, private interests and national interests.
8. Class war is avoidable and must be avoided. Class war is deleterious to the orderly and fruitful life of the nation therefore it has no place in the Fascist State.
9. More important than the production of wealth is its right distribution, distribution which must benefit in the best possible way all the classes of the nation, hence, the nation itself.
10. Private wealth belongs not only to the individual, but in a symbolic sense, to the State as well.
These fundamental tenets of Fascist economy derive in turn from those basic conceptions of the Fascist doctrine of the State which we have expounded in the chapter of the “Fascist State.” We have said there, in fact, that the Fascist State is a Sovereign State. This means that there cannot be any single economic interests which are above the general economic interests of the State, no individual, economic initiatives which do not fall under the supervision and regulation of the State, no relationships of the various classes of the nations which are not the concern of the State.
Furthermore, the Fascist State is an Ethical State. This means that all the factors influencing the life of a nation: the economic, the social, the political, etc., are brought into the Fascist State under the dominion of the moral law, which becomes not only the supreme law of the individual, but the supreme law of the State as well."
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@technologicallyilliterate "Germany’s national bourgeoisie "
Hitler was against the bourgeoisie.
"The National Socialist Movement, on the contrary, will always let its foreign policy be determined by the necessity to secure the space necessary to the life of our Folk. It knows no Germanising or Teutonising, as in the case of the national bourgeoisie, but only the spread of its own Folk. It will never see in the subjugated, so called Germanised, Czechs or Poles a national, let alone Folkish, strengthening, but only the racial weakening of our Folk."
"I will tolerate no opposition. We recognize only subordination – authority downwards and responsibility upwards. You just tell the German bourgeoisie that I shall be finished with them far quicker than I shall with Marxism... When once the conservative forces in Germany realize that only I and my party can win the German proletariat over to the State and that no parliamentary games can be played with Marxist parties, then Germany will be saved for all time, then we can found a German Peoples State."
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@Soren kirksdjfk: "prai se pri vate ownership of pro perty in The Doctrine of Fa sci sm,"
Incorrect. They do not. According to them, property should be owned or at least controlled by the fa scist St ate and everything should be in li ne with the goals set by the Sta te.
"The keystone of the Fasc ist doctrine is its conception of the St ate, of its essence, its functions, and its aims. For Fasci sm the St ate is absolute, individuals and groups relative. Individuals and groups are admissible in so far as they come within the Sta te. Instead of directing the game and guiding the material and moral progress of the community, the liberal State restricts its activities to recording results. The Fas cist State is wide awake and has a will of its own. For this reason it can be described as " ethical ""
"The Fasc ist State organizes the nation, but it leaves the individual adequate elbow room. It has curtailed useless or harmful liberties while preserving those which are essential. In such matters the individual cannot be the judge, but the State only"
"We were the first to state, in the face of demo liberal individualism, that the individual exists only in so far as he is within the Sta te and subjected to the requirements of the state and that, as civilization assumes aspects which grow more and more complicated, individual freedom becomes more and more restricted. (To the General staff Conference of Fas cism, in Discorsi del 1929, Milano, Alpes, 1930, p. 280)."
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@TylerJames88 "I'm not arguing with someone who rejects the writings of the fascists on fascism. Have a good day."
I'm literally quoting and telling you about the writings of the Fascists themselves. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@TylerJames88 "right wing closer to the traditional right wing than liberalism. I'm correct."
Wrong. Again, Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
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All la bor uni ons were abolished in May 1933, replaced by the Deu tsche Arbeit sfront (DAF, or German Labor Front). The DAF created a single overarching la bor uni on. Essentially all German workers and employees in every economic sector belonged to the DAF. While traditional unions prioritized workers’ rights, the DAF emphasized national economic goals above personal well-being.
In September 1933, Joseph Goebbels created the Reich Culture Chamber. It coordinated literature, music, theater, radio, film, fine arts, and the press. Only artists and writers belonging to its affiliated bodies could continue in their professions. Groups that were previously organized under political parties or labor unions—such as sports teams, music groups, and craft associations—were disbanded. The ones that remained were organized under the NS DAP.
A 1934 law made the Adolf Youth the only legal youth group in Germany. 5 In 1939, participation became mandatory. All German children became exposed to NS DAP ideology from an early age. Even leisure time was coordinated according to NS DAP principles in the Strength through Joy (Kraft durch Freude) program. The program was a division of the German Labor Front. Strength through Joy offered subsidized tourism packages, music lessons, art classes, fitness opportunities, and sponsored theater and concert tickets.
- United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
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@lexter8379 : Wrong. Fascis m was an outgrowth of Sorellian Syndic alism, which itself was an outgrowth from Ma rxist socialis m. The idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the state, or "embody" the state (corpus = body). The purpose wasn't the promotion of private interest, but the centralization and synchronization of society under the state, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
Ideologically, where the Fascis ts diverged from the Marxists was in their rejection of the narrative of class warfare, which they saw as utterly repudiated by the behavior of "the proletariat" during World War I, where rather than join together in a mutual overthrow of capitalism, the working class of each country stayed in lockstep with national loyalties and slaughtered their supposed foreign class brethren. Both the Fascists and Marxists despised classical Liberalism, and saw it as having a perverse role in atomizing the individual from society. Mussolini's favored intellectual, Giovanni Gentile, freely acknowledged Fas cism' kinship with Marxis m through Sorellian Syndicalism.
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@z2z3z45 : Wrong. Fascism was never anti-socialism nor did if fight against socialism. It was anti-Marxism and fought against Marxism specifically. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@Worldmisery "Fascism is anti-socialist and right wing."
Wrong. Fascism was neither. Again, Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@Worldmisery "The Nazi economy was built on business, and business profited from war crimes."
Wrong. Nazi economy had nothing to do with businesses per se. It was build around the totalitarian State which controlled everything, and also decided what was to be produced, in what quantity, by what methods, and to whom it was to be distributed, as well as what prices would be charged and what wages would be paid. It was almost identical to the USSR under Stalin. In a report prepared by an SS Hauptsturmführer in July 1944, the question “Why does the SS engage in business activities?” was answered as follows:
"This question was raised specifically by circles who think purely in terms of capitalism and who do not like to see companies developing which are public, or at least of a public character. The age of the liberal system of business demanded the primacy of business, in other words business comes first, and then the state. As opposed to this, National Socialism takes the position: the state directs the economy, the state is not there for business, business is there for the state." (Die wirtschaftlichen Unternehmungen der SS.)
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@Mark-zk3gu : "Does this sound like Nazi Germany to you?"
It certainly does. Hi tler and NS DP were mostly against private property which they officially abolished with the Reichst ag Fi re Dec ree. While they did not dire ctly advocate ownership, they did advoc ate for st ate cont rol over the me ans of produc tion. Na zi Germ any had a pla nned econo my contr olled by the sta te in w hich all indu stries and natural resources were state co ntrolled.
According to Hit ler himself:
"To put it quite clearly: we have an econo mic progr amme. Point No. 13 in that progra mme demands the nation alisation of all public com panies, in other words sociali sation, or what is known here as social ism. … the basic principle of my Part y’s eco nomic programme should be made perfectly clear and that is the prin ciple of author ity… the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overr iding point. The Thi rd Re ich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me?… Tod ay’s bour geoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals any more; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil.“
— Adolf Hit ler, Hit ler's interview with Richard Breiting, 1931, published in Edouard Calic, ed., “First Interview with Hi tler, 4 May 1931,” Secret Conversations with Hit ler: The Two Newly-Discovered 1931 Interviews, New York: John Day Co., 1971, pp. 31-33. Also published under the title Unmasked: Two Confidential Interviews with Hit ler in 1931, published by Chatto & Windus in 1971
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@Mark-zk3gu "The night of the long knives was in 1934, where Hitler killed and expunged all the Strasserites from his party."
The "night of the long knives" was all about the SA. By 1934, the main threat to Hitler’s continued control of the government came from within the N azi Par ty, specifically the SA since their violence and intimidation was met with increasing public disapproval. To reassure the nation, Hit ler announced that the revolutionary phase of the “natio nal uprising” had ended. Among the SA, however, there was talk of a second revolution. This was to be led by SA commander Ernst Röhm. By this time, the SA had 4.5 million members so it far outnumbered the Reichswehr, Germ any’s armed forces. Röhm made no secret of his desire to subor dinate the mili tary to the SA. In June 1934, Germany's generals made clear to Hi tler that he had to tame the SA or face a military coup. On June 30, 1934, Hit ler executed a bloody purge of the SA. The estimated 150 to 200 victims included Röhm and other SA leaders, as well as con servati ve figures who had earned Na zi displeasure. Though subordinate to the SA, the SS carried out most of the mur ders. As reward, Hitl er made the SS an independent Na zi organization. Its leader Hein rich Himm ler answered directly to Hit ler.
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Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel (Sorelianism). It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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"Fascism = the one with most voilence are in control"
Not exactly. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@AlethicAvenger "both ideologies shared key features, such as authoritarianism, ie. belief in a strong central leader and suppression of dissent, nationalism, ie. extreme emphasis on national identity and unity, often with a sense of national superiority, militarism, ie. glorification of military power and the use of force, totalitarianism, ie. an aim to control all aspects of society, including politics, economy, culture, and private life, ... and suppression of opposition, ie. use of violence and propaganda to silence political opponents. .... combined with other fascist traits (like militarism, ultranationalism, and suppression of dissent) that defines fascism."
Again, these "key features" are found in every single totalitarian and dictatorial regime. None of them are unique to Fascism nor National Socialism.
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I guess it would also be good to define the Fascist ideology, in order for you people to not confuse it with National Socialism anymore, so here it goes; Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@AlethicAvenger " 1) fascism's emphasis on nationalism, hierarchy, traditional social structures, and its opposition to both liberal democracy and communism are characteristics typically associated with right-wing ideologies."
None of these traits have anything to do with Right wing. Nationalism is a form of collectivism and therefore a Leftist trait, also used by various different socialist ideologies such as Stalinism, Maoism etc. Every single political ideology based on the concept of a "government" has hierarchies, some more some less. Fascism during its time was a revolutionary and anti-conservative movement and wasn't really advocating for traditional Italian social structures. Fascism was opposed to liberalism, democracy and communism as Fascism believed in an all encompassing State, being the center, the meaning and the existence of human life.
"7. Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception is for the State; and it is for the individual only in so far as he coincides with the State, which is the conscience and universal will of man in his historical existence. It is opposed to classical liberalism, which arose as a reaction to absolutism and exhausted its historical function when the State was transformed into the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the interest of the particular individual; Fascism reasserts the State as the true reality of the individual. And if liberty is to be the attribute of real men, and not of abstract puppets invented by individualistic liberalism, then Fascism is for liberty, and for the only liberty which can be real, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State. Therefore, for the Fascist, everything is in the State, and outside of it nothing human or spiritual can exist, much less have value. In this sense Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—the synthesis and unity of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of the people."
- the Doctrine of Fascism
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@AlethicAvenger " they maintained private ownership of the means of production, "
Wrong. They didn't. Nazi Germany abolished private property rights via Reichstag fire decree on February 28, 1933, and the means of production was controlled by the NSDAP via DAF. Fascist Italy took control over the means of production via Corporatism ("corporativismo" in Italian). It was one of the cornerstone principles in Mussolini's fascism, and had to do with the way society and the economy would be organized, with state power at the head of a system of nationalized syndicates ("corporazione") representing each major industry. Mussolini's corporatist view stressed total state power over businesses as much as over individuals, via these governing industry bodies controlled by the Fascist party, in which businesses retained the responsibilities of property, but few if any of the freedoms. Each profession and field had their own Syndicate, which in turn, operated symbiotically with its composed members, whose activities and interactions were managed and coordinated by the government.
In both countries and ideologies, the idea was to let the state control and direct the economy from the top-down without itself owning the means of production.
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@AlethicAvenger "Fascism often collaborated with capitalist elites "
Wrong. They did no such thing, as per Mussolini's own words;
“The Fascist State directs and controls the entrepreneurs, whether it be in our fisheries or in our heavy industry in the Val d'Aosta. There the State actually owns the mines and carries on transport, for the railways are state property. So are many of the factories… We term it state intervention… If anything fails to work properly, the State intervenes. The capitalists will go on doing what they are told, down to the very end. They have no option and cannot put up any fight. Capital is not God; it is only a means to an end.”
— Benito Mussolini, As quoted in Talks with Mussolini, Emil Ludwig, Boston, MA, Little, Brown and Company (1933)
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@AlethicAvenger " its economic policies were interventionist and regulatory but not fundamentally anti-capitalist. "
Wrong. They were specifically anti-capitalist as they opposed every kind of a Market based economy system and had a socialist Command economy. Excerpt from "the Philosophy of Fascism" by Mario Palmieri (1936);
"Fascism, which is the very antithesis of Individualism, stands as the nemesis of all economic doctrines and all economic practice of both the capitalistic and the communistic systems. Fascism holds that:
01. The economic life of man cannot be abstracted and separated from the whole of his spiritual life. In the words of Mussolini: “The economic man does not exist. Man is integral; he is political, economic, religious, saint and warrior at the same time.”
02. The economic life of man is influenced, if not actually determined, by idealistic factors.
03. True economic progress can derive only from the concerted effort of individuals who know how to sacrifice their personal egoism and ambitions for the good of the whole.
04. Economic initiatives cannot be left to the arbitrary decisions of private, individual interests.
05. Open competition, if not wisely directed and restricted, actually destroys wealth instead of creating it.
06. The wealth of a community is something intangible which cannot be identified with the sum of riches of single individuals.
07. The proper function of the State in the Fascist system is that of supervising, regulating and arbitrating the relationships of capital and labor, employers and employees, individuals and associations, private interests and national interests.
08. Class war is avoidable and must be avoided. Class war is deleterious to the orderly and fruitful life of the nation therefore it has no place in the Fascist State.
09. More important than the production of wealth is its right distribution, distribution which must benefit in the best possible way all the classes of the nation, hence, the nation itself.
10. Private wealth belongs not only to the individual, but in a symbolic sense, to the State as well.
These fundamental tenets of Fascist economy derive in turn from those basic conceptions of the Fascist doctrine of the State which we have expounded in the chapter of the “Fascist State.” We have said there, in fact, that the Fascist State is a Sovereign State. This means that there cannot be any single economic interests which are above the general economic interests of the State, no individual, economic initiatives which do not fall under the supervision and regulation of the State, no relationships of the various classes of the nations which are not the concern of the State .... We see thus the Fascist State resolutely enter the economic field to dictate what shall be from now on the relationship between the capital and labor, employer and employees, landowner and farmhand, industrialist and worker."
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@z2z3z45 "I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Fascism was socialist."
By definition, Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@Worldmisery " corporatism is capitalism, therefore fascism supports capitalism. "
Wrong. Corporatism had nothing to do with Capitalism whatsoever. It was a form of socialism, and specifically created to go against Capitalism, and Marxism. Corporatism ("corporativismo" in Italian) was one of the cornerstone principles in Mussolini's fascism, and had to do with the way society and the economy would be organized, with state power at the head of a system of nationalized syndicates ("corporazione") representing each major industry. Mussolini's corporatist view stressed total state power over businesses as much as over individuals, via these governing industry bodies controlled by the Fascist party, in which businesses retained the responsibilities of property, but few if any of the freedoms. Each profession and field had their own Syndicate, which in turn, operated symbiotically with its composed members, whose activities and interactions were managed and coordinated by the government. The idea was to let the state control and direct the economy from the top-down without itself owning the means of production.
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@Worldmisery "Fascism is a right wing ideology."
Wrong. Fascism had nothing to do with Right wing of any kind whatsoever. Fascism was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@maxschreck4095 "However, after the Nazis took power, industries were privatized en masse.""
Wrong. Nothing was privatized. It was never a thing. On the contrary, Nazis nationalized most if not all the German industry and later reorganized all industries into corporations run by members of the Nazi Party. They called this nationalization as "Gleichschaltung", a system of totalitarian control and coordination over all aspects of German society and societies occupied by Nazi Germany from the economy and trade associations to the media, culture and education.
"To put it quite clearly: we have an economic programme. Point No. 13 in that programme demands the nationalisation of all public companies, in other words socialisation, or what is known here as socialism. … the basic principle of my Party’s economic programme should be made perfectly clear and that is the principle of authority… the good of the community takes priority over that of the individual. But the State should retain control; every owner should feel himself to be an agent of the State; it is his duty not to misuse his possessions to the detriment of the State or the interests of his fellow countrymen. That is the overriding point. The Third Reich will always retain the right to control property owners. If you say that the bourgeoisie is tearing its hair over the question of private property, that does not affect me in the least. Does the bourgeoisie expect some consideration from me?… Today’s bourgeoisie is rotten to the core; it has no ideals any more; all it wants to do is earn money and so it does me what damage it can. The bourgeois press does me damage too and would like to consign me and my movement to the devil.“
— Adolf Hitler, Hitler's interview with Richard Breiting, 1931, published in Edouard Calic, ed.
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"It is inherently capitalist and profit-seeking, not soci alist and public-oriented. "
Wrong. Fas cism was one of the branches of soci alism and it opposed capitalism and profiteering. Mussolini, who was a socia list, specifically reiterated that capita lism, as an economic system, was not viable. Fasc ist economy was to be based not on individual profit but on collective interest.
"To-day we can affirm that the capit alistic method of production is out of date. So is the doctrine of laissez-faire, the theoretical basis of capita lism… To-day we are taking a new and decisive step in the path of revolution. A revolution, in order to be great, must be a social revol ution.“
— Benito Mussolini , Speech on November 14, 1933
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@robcrawford5165 "The capitalist class was in power before Mussolini became a Dictator. It is in power to-day with Muss olini at its head. "
Certainly they were not under Mussolini. His party and the Fasc ist Grand Council was purely formed from Syndicalists. On the contrary, Mussolini literally stated that the capitalist class will have to do what he wants them to do.
"The Fascist State directs and controls the entrepreneurs, whether it be in our fisheries or in our heavy industry in the Val d'Aosta. There the State actually owns the mines and carries on transport, for the railways are state property. So are many of the factories… We term it state intervention… If anything fails to work properly, the State intervenes. The capitalists will go on doing what they are told, down to the very end. They have no option and cannot put up any fight. Capital is not God; it is only a means to an end."
Talks with Mussolini, Emil Ludwig, Boston, MA, Little, Brown and Company (1933)
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@robcrawford5165 "Name one. ONE business Mussolini nationalized. Give me the cite. Mussolini did NOT nationalize a single private business in Italy during his regime. Daniel Guérin, Fascism and Big Business, 1999."
We can start with the Bank Reform Act in 1936, when the Bank of Italy and most of the other major banks became government entities. Also according to Mussolini himself:
"The Fascist State directs and controls the entrepreneurs, whether it be in our fisheries or in our heavy industry in the Val d'Aosta. There the State actually owns the mines and carries on transport, for the railways are state property. So are many of the factories… We term it state intervention… If anything fails to work properly, the State intervenes. The capitalists will go on doing what they are told, down to the very end. They have no option and cannot put up any fight. Capital is not God; it is only a means to an end."
Talks with Mussolini, Emil Ludwig, Boston, MA, Little, Brown and Company (1933)
"Three-fourths of the Italian economy, industrial and agricultural, is in the hands of the state. And if I dare to introduce to Italy state capitalism or state socialism, which is the reverse side of the medal, I will have the necessary subjective and objective conditions to do it."
Mussolini’s speech to the Chamber of Deputies on May 26, 1934
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@robcrawford5165 "and holds that clearly divided classes are necessary and the State's power depends on the maintenance of a system in which every person has a definite, unchangeable, specific role in glorifying the state. "
They didn't divide people in classes. This is where the corporatism comes in, which holds that all aspects of Society should be organized into Corporations, some use the word Syndicates, which are nationalized Unions that then elect their own members into government as well as democratically run their workspaces. Each profession and field has their own Syndicate, which in turn, operates symbiotically with its composed members. Private enterprise, if it exists at all, is only for the benefit of the State, in which these Syndicates are inseparable from.
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@robcrawford5165 "The Bank of Italy was never nationalized; it was given power to supervise other banks. It remained in private hands."
It was nationalized and under the control of the Government.
"In the context of preparations for war (the invasion of Ethiopia started in 1935) and under IRI, the Banking Law was drafted. The first part of the Law, which is still in force, defined the Bank of Italy as “a public law institution” and entrusted it definitively with the function of monetary issue (no longer just a concession); individual shareholdings were expropriated and equity was reserved to financial institutions of public relevance; the Bank was prohibited from discounting bills itself to non-banks, underscoring its function as banker to banks. A second part of the law (repealed almost completely in 1993) concerned credit and financial supervision, totally revamping the credit system via a separation between banking and industry and between short- and long-term credit; it determined that banking was an activity of public interest; it concentrated supervision in the Inspectorate for the defence of savings and the exercise of credit (a newly created state body), chaired by the Governor and using resources and personnel of the Bank of Italy, but directed by a ministerial committee chaired by the Prime Minister. Aware of the new developments in economics and the challenge posed by a world in the throes of violent change, Governor Azzolini initiated the creation of a modern research service, taking on professional economists. At the end of 1936, the long-awaited devaluation of the lira stimulated economic recovery and improved the balance of payments. At the same time, by a simple ministerial decree, all limits on State borrowing from the Central Bank were abolished. The autonomy of the Bank was at its nadir."
- Bankpedia
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@regisglass5464: "again, you are entitled to believe fascism supported right wing socialism"
There is nothing to believe nor is this a matter of belief. There is no such thing as "rig ht win g social ism". They supported just socia lism.
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@regisglass5464: "Not sure what you mean by this, but thank you for agreeing fascism is right winged."
Wrong. Fasc ism had nothing to do with right wi ng of any kind what soever. The fas cists wanted to move to the right from marx ism, not into the right side of the spectrum. It was a totalita rian far-left, soci alist ideology based on national syndicalism.
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@regisglass5464: "A stated, you are entitled to pretend corporations aren't capitalist"
There is nothing to pretend. There were no modern business / capit alist corporations in fasc ism. You just do not under stand what that word means, because you are am ur ican. Maybe you should do your homework before com menting. The word does not mean what you think it means.
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@regisglass5464: "to pretend Mu ssolini's corporations are left lea ning."
Syndic alism / Trade union ism under Mussolini was left leaning. Had nothing to do with modern business corporations.
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@regisglass5464: "Or why not quote Mussolini on the capit alist model he used?"
There is nothing to quote. Mussolini never used one. He used socia lism.
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@regisglass5464: "Then kindly name any conservative group or individual that defends the indivi dual rights of LG BTQ peo ple."
Haven't looked into them, because I don't care and it is irrelevant when discussing about fas cism. Conse rvatism has nothing to do with this subject, especially the am urica n version. Again, conserva tism is relative. Is it too hard for am urica ns to understand? Again, conse rvatism has nothing to do with this subject. Mussolini didn't consider his movement to be conservative. On the contrary, he claimed that the Italian Socia list Party was conservative.
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@regisglass5464: "Seems odd you have such trouble answering if all rig ht wi ng ideology are about individual right s."
They certainly are. Seems odd you have such trouble understanding that there is no definitive connection between right wing and conservat ism. Even Wiki knows this: "The central tenets of conservatism may vary in relation to the culture and civilization in which it appears ... There is no single set of policies regarded as conservative because the meaning of conservatism depends on what is considered traditional in a given place and time."
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@Freddie Ban-Murray: "Fa scis m is a form of com plete auth ority from one person or government"
Well no, that is just what we call auth oritaria nism and fasc ism was way more than that. F asci sm was a politi cal ideology and philos ophy that reject ed indivi dualism, ca pitalism, liberalism/demo cracy, and co mmun ism, in which the means of production is organized by national worker syndi cals (i.e. trade uni ons), and the guiding philos ophy of the state is Actual Idealism.
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@Freddie Ban-Murray: "Capi talism is not demo cracy, soci alism is rejection of capit alism not demo cracy"
You are not making any sense. Capita lism and soc iali sm both are eco nomic models and have nothing to do with demo cra cy, which is a polit ical mo del.
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@Freddie Ban-Murray: "To call Starlin even remotely marx ist shows you lack of understanding on the subject"
He adhered to the Leni nist interpretation of Marx ism, later he forma lised these ideas as Marx ism–Lenin ism, while his own policies are called Stal inism.
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@ehanson6537 "Below is the Oxford dictionary definition below."
And that is a wrong defintion and has no historical basis. Fascism had nothing to do with Right wing of any kind whatsoever. It was a totalitarian far-left, socialist 3rd position ideology based on National Syndicalism which they adapted from a French Marxist, known as Georges Sorel. It rejected individualism, capitalism, liberalism, democracy, and marxist interpretation of socialism ("class warfare"). Instead, it advocated for class collaboration where the means of production was organized by national worker syndicals (i.e. trade unions / Fascist Corporatism), and the guiding philosophy of the state was Actual Idealism (Neo-Hegelianism).
Being an outgrowth of Sorelian Syndicalism, (which itself was an outgrowth from Marxist socialism), its idea was that society would be consolidated (i.e., incorporated) into syndicates (in the Italian context, fascio/fasci) which would be regulated by and serve as organs for the State, or "embody" the State (corpus = body). The purpose was the centralization and synchronization of society under the State, as an end unto itself. To quote Mussolini's infamous aphorism: "All within the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State."
As finalized by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile ("the Doctrine of Fascism"), Fascism came from the belief that the "Stateless and Classless society" Communism calls for after its "dictatorship of the proletariat" cannot be achieved, and that only the State can properly organize a socialist society. Therefore, Fascism cared about unity in a strong central government with society being brought together by syndicalist organizations obedient to the State.
[01] "La Dottrina Del Fascismo / the Doctrine of Fascism", by Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile
[02] "Che cosa è il Fascismo: Discorsi e polemiche / Origins and Doctrine of Fascism", by Giovanni Gentile
[03] "the Philosophy of Fascism", by Mario Palmieri
[04] "Fascism: An Informal Introduction to Its Theory and Practice", by Renzo De Felice
[05] "Mussolini's Intellectuals", by A. James Gregor
[06] "La Camera dei Fasci e delle Corporazioni", by Rabaglietti Giuseppe & Sergio Panunzio
[07] "Teoria generale dello Stato Fascista", by Sergio Panunzio
[08] "The Birth of Fascist Ideology" by Zeev Sternhell
[09] Any work from Emilio Gentile
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@Worldmisery "I don't really agree with the view that fascists are statist first and nationalist second. "
You don't have to agree, however that is reality and what their dogma teached and what the Fascists themselves believed.
"7. Anti-individualistic, the Fascist conception is for the State; and it is for the individual only in so far as he coincides with the State, which is the conscience and universal will of man in his historical existence. It is opposed to classical liberalism, which arose as a reaction to absolutism and exhausted its historical function when the State was transformed into the conscience and will of the people. Liberalism denied the State in the interest of the particular individual; Fascism reasserts the State as the true reality of the individual. And if liberty is to be the attribute of real men, and not of abstract puppets invented by individualistic liberalism, then Fascism is for liberty, and for the only liberty which can be real, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State. Therefore, for the Fascist, everything is in the State, and outside of it nothing human or spiritual can exist, much less have value. In this sense Fascism is totalitarian, and the Fascist State—the synthesis and unity of all values—interprets, develops, and potentiates the whole life of the people."
"10. This higher personality is the nation in so far as it is the State. It is not the nation that generates the State, as according to the old naturalistic concept which served as the basis of the political theories of the nation-states of the nineteenth century. Rather the nation is created by the State, which gives to the people, conscious of their moral unity, a will and therefore an effective existence. The right of a nation to independence derives not from a literary and ideal consciousness of its own being, still less from a more or less unconscious and inert acceptance of a de facto situation, but from an active consciousness, from a political will in action and ready to demonstrate its own rights: that is to say from a state already coming into being. The State, in fact, as the universal ethical will, is the creator of the right to national independence."
- the Doctrine of Fascism
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@Worldmisery "They use the state to do what? Silence people. Like who? Like people who aren't nationalists and especially people who have internationalist beliefs like peace, racial equality and cultural tolerance. "
They wanted to use the State to "shape a new man" which would be completely subservient to the "supreme State", and to the nation it governs. I guess it could be more easier to understand, if you imagine Theocracy and replace the religion and God with the State itself.
"12. The Fascist State, as a higher and more powerful expression of personality, is a force, but a spiritual one. It sums up all the manifestations of the moral and intellectual life of man. Its functions cannot therefore be limited to those of enforcing order and keeping the peace, as the liberal doctrine had it. It is no mere mechanical device for defining the sphere within which the individual may duly exercise his supposed rights. The Fascist State is an inwardly accepted standard and rule of conduct, a discipline of the whole person; it permeates the will no less than the intellect. It stands for a principle which becomes the central motive of man as a member of civilized society, sinking deep down into his personality; it dwells in the heart of the man of action and of the thinker, of the artist and of the man of science: soul of the soul."
- the Doctrine of Fascism
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