Comments by "" (@Cloud_Seeker) on "TIKhistory" channel.

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  6.  @everything1023  Actually. I am going to agree with you. What you said is Socialism, but that does not mean what I said is not correct. Let me explain. When the workers are owning the industry it is the community that own the factory. Or am I wrong? That means the factory is community owned. But a factory can not produce without supplies, so it needs metal from a mine to produce. The mine is also owned by the workers, so it is also community owned. So for the factory and mine to operate together they need to be both community owned and organized with each other. So the community have to create a system the managed them both at the same time. Like a community administration. But when a factory produce they need to give those products to someone. Maybe like a construction corporation. That construction corp is also owned by the workers which means the community owns the construction corp. Since it is much more efficient to have some kind of central planning when you know how much supply you get from the factory, the community run construction corp can be run by the community run administration and let the builders be builders. When something is run by the community or when the workers themselves own an industry. That is what we call PUBLIC OWNERSHIP. The definition of Socialism is when you have public ownership instead of private ownership. The Government is a community run organization. There is no private ownership of the government and anyone within the community can decide to work for the government. When something is owned and controlled by the government it is by definition publicly owned because to government is publicly owned. When the government owns something, everyone in the country own something (and nothing at the same time. Your share is so small it is stealing to take anything).
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  32.  mike mcmike  The definition of Socialism is public ownership or control of the means of production. You can find this definition literally everywhere outside of sources who wish to redefine it. You say that TIK define it as is: "relating anything public to the social and socialism" When we are talking about Social in the context of society we are talking about the Public. Social Welfare is not welfare private, it is a social program which has to do with the public. Socialism is the public ownership or control of the means of production. What TIK define Socialism as is correct. When we are dealing with the public we are dealing with the social part of a society. I am going to be honest with you here. You are dishonest here because you do not present a real definition which TIK are using. You are using his explanation of why the words mean what it is as the definition but are ignoring that this is only the first part of the explanation. You have to first explain what the word Public means before you can explain what Public Ownership means. "I can do the same with capitalism and relating it to its Latin origin “caput” which meant a head of cattle." - Apart from that you are a little wrong. The word “caput” only means "head" and not head of cattle. However it is not incorrect to measure someone's wealth in how many heads of cattle they own when wealth was represented in livestock. So if you wish to measure your capital, count the number of heads you own cattle. The problem in this logic is that you are trying to define Capitalism when you are actually defining what a Capitalist is. A capitalist is a owner of capital, a owner of heads of cattle, a owner of livestock, a owner of private property since that is what the livestock is. So even if you are a little wrong in how you word things, you are not incorrect as you are defining the private ownership or control of the means of production. "please explain how my redefinition of capitalism isn’t identical to what tik did? I’ll wait" - You have not actually managed to redefine it at all. All you have done is to cut away several hundreds of years of history and evolution of the term, but still presented the key point in Capitalism which is the private ownership. The problem you have is that you only listened to the first part but then skipped the rest.
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  33.  mike mcmike  When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser Remember that the next time you go around calling other people loser. I have not insulted you once. I have been respectful to you and you can only respond with insults. So how exactly can the Nazi government be an totalitarian regime if they "worked" with industrialists and the private sector? Fact is that they did not. Those who refused to work with the government got nationalized. They worked with the government for the same reason you work with someone holding a gun to your head. You will not survive if you do not. The government controlled the private sector. No one had private property. They just didn't take a active part in the day to day operation. This is still socialism because it is also how every single communist or socialist state have operated. "actually I did. You just chose to ignore my redefinition because it destroys Tiks :) and sad cultists like you can’t have your narrative challenged." - No you didn't. If you think I ignored your definition it only means you failed to present it in the first place. "Again by Tiks insane redefinition Pinochet and Franco were socialist." - I think you have an issue that you don't seem to understand that Socialism and Capitalism are an abstract concept. How it is actually implemented is something else entirely. This is where Communism, Social Democracy or Mixed Economy comes into play. The western world is not Capitalitic. The western world is a mixed economy. Capitalism has never been 100% implemented anywhere. It is because the concept is abstract. What makes a country "socialist" or "capitalist" is if the majority is owned by the public or the private. Even Communism had private corporations. I am going to tell you this. If you keep throwing insults I will refuse to continue this debate. If you have nothing but insults to say, you have already lost and have nothing else to say. You do not need to lie when you are telling the truth. You do not need to insult when you are winning a debate.
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  47.  @maik10mrrck80  The idea can go and find a stone to be under. It is just words. Lies are also words. Just because someone say something doesn't mean it is true. You have to look at the actions and not the words. So about taxes. Yes. The taxes are high. That should be fine if I got something for it. However I don't. A friend my mother have has a skin issue. She went to three different doctors and ALL of them said that the previous doctor failed in their job. One of them even gave out medication that should NEVER be used to treat that issue. I myself has nearly been killed twice due to the lack of attention in the healthcare service. The schools in the area are so poorly maintained that you were able to see through the walls in some places. Do you think this sounds like I get a service worth 70% of my salary every single month? I am pretty sure I can have gotten better service myself if I didn't have to pay the taxes. The reason we have high taxes is not because the government use it to help the public. Most of it is wasted in bureaucrats and worthless projects that never goes anywhere. The reason we have high taxes is because the Social Democracy of Sweden works by redistributing wealth. You know. Like a socialist redistribute wealth from the rich to the people. During this winter and last winter the electricity price were high. REALLY high. The government can do two things to help people: - They can lower the penalty taxes and other taxes on electricity. This will lower the price of electricity while keeping the price correct in the free market. It will also help people based on the amount of electricity they use. It autocorrect itself and help people without figuring out who suffered the most. You also get more bang for your buck since it doesn't employ anyone to solve this issue. - They can also give subsidies to people based on who had to pay the most. This will employ bureaucrats as someone needs to figure out who paid what, and they also take tax money to give to people. So you basically collect taxes from people, only to give a smaller portion back to them again. This is pretty much the least effective option to help people, but it does other things. It make people dependent on the state if they want to pay their electricity bill. It also benefit those who use the most amount of electricity. Those who save electricity does not benefit from this as they pay out subsidies for how much you have used and what you saved. Since the social democratic state of Sweden does the socialist idea of redistributing the wealth rather than letting the market solve it like a capitalist. They went with the second option. They redistributed the wealth. They rather want you to be dependent on your government handouts than having a market that does it thing without the government intervention. Now with high inflation and high food costs. Who do you think is putting pressure on food distributors and power supply companies to lower their cost or face price controls? The Social democrats ofc. Just last week they argued that we should collectivize food distribution and energy supplies "for the people". Can you please tell me again how Social Democrats are not socialist when they stand in parliament arguing for collectivization just a week or so ago?
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  49. Where did you get that definition from? You seem to have changed the definition in some way even if it is pretty much correct. Here is what Encyclopedia Britannica and Oxford Dictionary say: "Socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources." https://www.britannica.com/topic/socialism "a set of political and economic theories based on the belief that everyone has an equal right to a share of a country’s wealth and that the government should own and control the main industries" https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/socialism?q=Socialism When we talk about the public we are often talking about the government. But we only do so because the government is the representation of the people as a whole. What belongs to everyone belong to the government. Just like what TIK said before. A community is a nation. A community is a society. A government is a community of people. When everything is owned or controlled by the government, it is owned and controlled by the community. That is also what Hitler implemented as he created a totalitarian regime. You asked for where does his ideal sync up with the definition. I will show you that but first I must point out something. "since your party program is the very anthesis of that commonly accredited to Socialism?" - What is said here is WHAT IS COMMONLY ACCREDITED TO SOCIALISM. This does not say "but your party is the very anthesis to Socialism". If the Marxists and the communists have been allowed to set the standard for what "Socialism" means, you have inherently a tainted definition. This is why Socialism and Communism was basically synonyms before. For what isn't communism but socialism since it strive to do everything Socialism wants? Socialism was not invented by Karl Marx. It date back to Plato and the Book Utopia describe a Socialistic world. So why should someone else not be allowed to define what Socialism means outside of the Marxist or Communists political world view? But here is where they sync. "Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal." - He make the claim that their German ancestors worked collectively for the common good, the good of everyone in the community. "Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property." - Here he makes an attack on Marxism which has defined a lot of the views on Socialism. Socialism was a concept that date back to Plato. While the Marxists view is that no one should even associated with the idea of private property. Hitler correctly points out that Socialism never actually require people from not even be associated with private property. No one is going to lay public claim to your tooth brush for example. I also need to point out that no ideology have ever tried to implement every single point. It should be impossible just like pure capitalism is impossible. "Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality and, unlike Marxism, it is patriotic." - A lot of communistic ideals attacked the very idea of personality. That someone might say "I am British" or "I am American". Communism at the time was international. It tried to unify the world (Workers of the world Unite) and so tried to erase the ideas of nations and national belonging. Where everyone belonged to a great collective. Where everything was ours. It is not meme for nothing you know. Artists that were depressed and felt lonely were attacked because "how can you feel lonely when you belong to a collective of millions?", the only reason is if you didn't belong to the collective. Hitler wanted a socialism that focused on the nation, the German community and not the international community. "We are not internationalists. Our Socialism is national. We demand the fulfilment of the just claims of the productive classes by the State on the basis of race solidarity. To us, State and race are one…" - This is just spelling it out in the clear. He was a nationalist and not a internationalist. You might see this as a nation within the EU wanting to protect their nation from outside EU interference. Or how a state in the US wants to prevent federal overreach. He was focused on the community, the community that belonged to the territory called Germany. He also see the community as a racially homogenize community. Treat race like a social class. Just like the Socialists do not want the wealthy and the rich because they exploit the common workers, Hitler did not want some races because he thought they are the rich and wealthy that exploit the common workers.
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