Comments by "John h Palmer" (@johnhpalmer6098) on "Gas stove fumes and broken public health discourse (PODCAST E40)" video.
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@filmpjesman1 The problem is, you are trading one source for another as the electricity you USE to use that stove can come from FUEL, be it gas, or coal. Not so bad if it is hydro based (water), but the NE is not known for that much, most of their electricity comes from gas or coal (used to), or nuclear when it was not as controversial as it is now here in the US. Think on THAT for a bit.
I have an electric glass top and it was NOT my choice, came with the house, with exception of the shitty wall furnace from Williams that is gas, the rest of the ENTIRE house is electric, and is the bulk of my utility bill during the winter months, and part of that is for cooking, and heating (three electric baseboard heaters, 2 in bedrooms, one in the laundry porch and does not work). The rest is with either LED or fluorescent lighting.
Now, mind you, I live where hydro is king (Pac NW) so it's not as bad, and if the power DOES go out, then I can't even cook but do have a single burner gas burner (butane) that I can use and my grill, when I have gas for it.
The big issue is not the gas, but the LACK of ventilation. I have NONE in my unrenovated kitchen from the 1920's and when I try to reverse sear a steak say, or cook in a wok, I can set off the smoke alarm, and it's at the FRONT of the house (kitchen is in the back of the house) and that IS the issue I think, more than gas in and of itself.
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@nighteule What you are saying is all true, but one fact I forgot to mention is that the electric grid as it is now is fragile here in the US and may be on the precipice of failing completely as we continue to move to electric everything, and if it fails, then what, unless you have a generator or have solar that you can continue to use when the power is out, THAT factor alone is not the answer to blindly ditch fossil fuels completely.
Until induction can work on a wide range of pans like a wok well and manufacturers make the elements big enough to cover the entire pan bottom, warping is going to be prevalent, I have radiant glass top and yes, pans warp, even my cast iron pan warped when I cooked on calrod (it's my Mom's vintage 10" skillet from the 50's I believe).
Also, to get wok hei at home, need a small torch (can be had for oh, $20 or so) and use it to generate that wok hei.
Also, in many jurisdictions, the wires are still overhead wiring (like it is here) and I live in an old neighborhood that is mostly working class, fortunately, the electric here has only gone out a half dozen times for short periods in the past nearly 7 years I've lived here.
At the moment, I do run 2 window air conditioners at times during the summer and unlike California, Washington St has not had the brownouts or had to force people to run certain appliances at certain times when demand is lower so there is that. I am thinking of ditching my gas furnace (a Williams wall furnace that's old) for a heat pump mini split when I can afford it and maybe move to a gas stove as I have it, might as well use it, right?
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@TacoTuesday4 That is old information as in the past 10-15 years, heat pumps have improved with variable speed fans, improved compressors and can now keep an entire house comfortable, even when the temps are down as low as -10F. The caveat is, how well the house is insulated and sealed up for drafts though, and most can also keep your house cool during the summer months.
This does include mini split systems too, and it also depends on how well they are installed or they can struggle when it gets really cold. Two videos here on YT show this, one guy lives in Massachusetts, the other in Minneapolis MN and both went with cold weather heat pumps and have stayed comfortable during really brutal winters and one I think saved energy, the other just broke even, and both are modern heat pumps. One gent had his installed in 2016, the other in 2020.
Now, thermal heat pumps that utilize the heat in the ground have been around for a long time, but have always been very expensive, air to air based heat pumps have too, but only in the past 10-15 years can do really cold weather well.
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@chickenfishhybrid44 I lived in an old apartment built in 1913 that initially was a hotel, then it was converted to apartments in the 30's (during the depression) and it had gas stoves, and likely a gas fed boiler for the steam heat, and this was in Seattle.
In Medford OR, I briefly rented a 2 room flat that had a brand new Kenmore gas stove in it, both in the 1990's, and every place since then has had an electric calrod stove, which IS more commonly found in post war or newer rental units. Many new condos have gas in the area, but not all.
The house I lived in had a gas furnace, but electric everything else and it was built in the early 60's so yes, gas stoves are not as common here, but they do exist.
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To be honest, I DO think the emphasis is too much on the gas stove itself but look at where those stoves are housed, in kitchens without any sort of ventilation, even a window in some cases. I live in an older home, has no exhaust hood of ANY kind, but, I DO have an electric glass top (not induction) and it does not take much to cause a lot of smoke in the kitchen, if not to set the smoke alarm off at the OTHER end of the house from the kitchen. I do have a window, but nowhere near the stove itself.
So I'd say, instead of BANNING gas stoves, might as well require ALL KITCHENS be retrofitted, or remodeled to have exhaust hoods, and not ones that recirculate back into the room, but vents outside instead, and make this mandatory for any stove type, regardless of the fuel used as if not using gas for cooking, you may be using it by the electricity your electric utility company has sourced to power their generators (coal or gas is quite common in the NE of the US, or coal once was). That said, the electric grid is not as robust as it should be and may not handle the load always well to begin with.
Add in all the heat pumps and AC units now in use, the time is ripe to cause more problems than it solves by requiring electric stoves, without looking at the entire picture without requiring an infrastructure rebuild of the electric grid across this vast nation.
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@SeattlePioneer There is a budget to content, with, or the lack there of, or I would have by now, I'm just saying that is a hidden elephant that no one is talking about.
Hoods typically don't cost nearly as much as many stoves, unless you buy a top end hood, and those can get quite spendy, and then to retrofit into older structures that never had them can get expensive too. I can do it a little easier, and cheaper by usurping my gas wall furnace flue to vent outside when I get around to replacing that too, so $$$ I just don't have right now.
Also, I should add, I used to live in Seattle, and my last place was a 1960 modern concrete slab apartment building on Capitol Hill and it did have an exhaust fan/hood, the hood was there for light but recirculated into the room, the exhaust fan vented outside through a vent chase to the roof and was shared by other units in the same stack. Did the job, but could have been better, yes, I used it always when I cooked. I live in Tacoma now in a single family home from 1905-1908, the kitchen is original to the mid 20's.
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