Comments by "Horatio82" (@horatio8213) on "TIKhistory"
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@Кремень-ц8ю
"In precentage Germans get better traetment"
According to the Mueller-Gillebrand Handbook, by the end of 44, about the same number of people were demobilized for health reasons as were killed. Actually, this is a monstrous sanitary loss. Soviet at least 2 times less. (too lazy to take reference books and write exact numbers)."
Then take a notice that many Red Army soldiers died form wounds before evacuation and land in global number killed in action. That is one of the part of difference in level of dissproportion in losses in Red Army in comparision to other armies. In many books wrote by soviet veterans you can find information how low priority was put on evacuation from battlefield by commanding stuff. If you look on this statistics in this light it look like that Germans evacuate more effectivly even heavy wounded from battlefield. How important for Germans was this proces you can observe on Stalingrad airlift, when Germans use planes to evacuate wounded soldiers. Red Army never use planes in such action like that in WW2. Different priority.
Great picture of reality of Soviet soldiers you can see in book like "Ivan's War" wrote by Catherine Merridale. But she is Westener and she can't be right by your argument.
Then maybe "Nikolai N. Nikulin - MEMORIES from the WAR" could give some light about realities of Great Patriotic War.
No one take bravery and skills from soviet medical servicemens and womens, but claims that Soviet regime care so much for medical service is just taken straight from propaganda.
As a example how life do not agree with propaganda I give yoy simple case of war in Afganistan. Where 3/4 Soviet Army soldiers were hospitalized. Not even from wounds, but they were victimes of low standars of medic service. When in the same time as you claim USSR have best medical service in world!
"Poor Cuba had better medicine than the super-rich USA ( on average for each person)"
Ah myth of greate Cuban health service. Then why when Cuban medical service is so much better Americans live longer at averange? It is only few months but still numbers do not lie.
And compare medical service for Cubans, not turists. Hospitals in Cuba are understaffed and have problems with lack of moder equipment and drugs. But noone can say that Cuban medical staff is bad, in education and practice they are on top level.
"Using blund numbers without context do not prove nothing. Yes Germans in official data lies the same like Soviets."
"First is just a problem of numbers of Soviets wounded and take that number in contex of whole war. Because with decline of quality of this service and fall of Germany in 1944-45 tip that numbers on their dissadvantage."
You don't know what you're saying. The first half of the war - one continuous disaster for the red army (the attack on the unmobilized army), the second half - for the Wehrmacht. So what? Do you have a context for the Wehrmacht, but not for the red army? ))"
Maybe you not understand that I see that both Red Army and Wermacht in time of crisis were not that effective in recovery of wounderd. But for Germans that situation was basicly last one and half year of war. When Soviet practice didn't change that much for whole war. And how Soviet saw value of own soldiers is best seen by issuing Order nr 227. Very humane. Or creation of penal battalions in Red Army, basicly suicide formations. Yes Red Army was most humane army, just after Japaness Imperial Army.
"The USSR is not a rich country. A Northern country with the harshest climate on the planet can't be very rich at all."
Maybe you forgott about Canada, Sweden, Norway or Finland. Countries with less resources butt much more developed than USSR and today Russia. They have better averange standards of living even without "soviet reforms". Do not mention first class medical service.
""Yes Germans in official data lies the same like Soviets."
An example of a lie you call will be able to?"
Example:
Compare estimation on both sides battle of Kursk. Both sides claim much bigger casualities on enemy that were in reality it look different.
Both German and Red Army historian for years spread false statistics. In their publications many times facts mix with fiction.
Also official historic review done by Soviet Army historians were full of overestimation of German advantage over Red Army in 1941. Take a case of tanks, when Red Army have tanks like T-34 and KV, Germans have similar number of Pz III and IV which were weaker tanks. In pure numbers Red Army could operate over 23000 tanks versus 4000 Axis tanks! But in eyes of Soviets they were weaker side in any case! Because all soviet tanks were obselete and German tanks were superior, just like Pz II vs T-26 or BT-5 :)
Also data about economic progress done by USSR in years befor WW2 are full of manipulation or propaganda. In reality even today is very hard to estimate real numbers.
And maybe most controversial. Number of victimes of communist terror, like Great Purge or Holodomor. Do I have to give you more?
"German documentation is more open to study."
Is ridiculous. ))"
Not really ridiculous, German archives were captured in the end of war and they were study for years by historians. Today you can without any problem go to Germany and study open archives.There is no problem with accses to them.
In opposite many documents in Soviet and Russian archives were closed to reserchers and hisorians. Even today we hear that Russian administration restrict some documents, strange as you yourself tell 30 years after fall of USSR.
Bunch of documents we knew because after 1991 in chaos after fall of USSR many historians go there and copy lot of documentation. Today is not that easy.
Like few weeks ago, for political purpose Russian government relese secret reports about Poland, reports from before WW2! And other documents from archives from WW2. Documents that was keep in secret. Strange as youself stated, 30 years after USSR fall. Really strange.
"The modern government of the Russian Federation is extreme anti-Soviets."
You make me laugh here....
"I'm not even talking about the fact that the German losses have not been counted yet! ))) For some reason, you don't want to talk about it. ))"
Why not, if wer can find also Soviet losse because here also there is lot of different numbers. There is lot of controversy here.
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