Comments by "" (@neutronalchemist3241) on "Forgotten Weapons"
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The weapon had been higly successful both in the defence and attack role. So much that the Austrians copied it, double barrel, bipod and all. At the end of the conflict a total of 14.564 MGs had been produced (so, more than 29000 barrels, VS only about 5000 MP18), and 836 millions of 9mm Glisenti rounds for them.
Mind this. THERE WAS NOTHING BETTER AROUND.
When the guy with the Villar Perosa, after having thrown a couple of offensive grenades into the enemy trench to stun the enemies, came over the edge with the SMG in his hands to clear it, he didn’t find the guy with the MP18 waiting for him. Because there was not any MP18, or anything similar. What he had in his hands was incredibly better for that role than anything the enemy had.
After having adopted the Villar Perosa, the Italians took almos three years to adopt the MAB18 (that was nothing more than a single Villar Perosa barrel mounted on a Moschetto TS stock) not because the Villar Perosa was unsatisfactory, but because it was so satisfactory that none felt the urge to modify it.
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The FBI adopted the 10mm for a short time, but had soon to move to lighter loads, and then they replaced it with 40S&W, that had the same load they were using, but, being shorter, could be used on standard 9mm frames.
It was not a question of small hands. it's a question that agents are not gun enthusiasts. When the 10mm was adopted, the FBI standard issue was the 357 mag revolver, but much agents, with permission, loaded them with .38 Special +p ammos, because they didn't like to train with the 357 mag. That's the problem. When you adopt a round that's uncomfortable to shoot, agents reduce the training time to the bare minimum, and that degrades their performances on the field much more than the more powerful caliber can enhance.
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@eloiseharbeson2483 More than they taught Physics and basic grammar in your evidently.
For the second, I said "MORE similar", and there's no doubt than the 8mm Roth-Steyr is MORE similar to the performances of the .30 super Carry than the 7.65X20 Longe. You can check the meaning of "MORE".
For the first, muzzle energy is 1/2massXsquare of the speed.
.30 super Carry 100gr, 380m/s, 470Joule of energy.
8mm Roth Steyr, 116gr, 332m/s, 409 Joule of energy.
It's not that much of a difference, especially considered that the speed of the bullet, for a given pressure tend to increase linearly with the reduction of the mass, while the energy increases with the square of the speed, so, with a 100gr bullet, the 8mm Steyr Roth would develop more energy.
Also 45.000 psi is not "three x" of 21.500. So your elementary school was not that good for math as well it seems.
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@eloiseharbeson2483 Because you should be someone "who knows more"? Without understanding basic math, physics or even having really learnt to read? You are a blatant example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, aren't you?
I already told you what the performances of the two cartridges are. It's not my fault if common pistol cartridges' performances in general have not increased much in the last century. It has to do with human anatomy. 8mm Roth Steyr was nothing exceptional in 1908, like .30 Super Carry is nothing exceptional now.
As for "knowing so much about the performance of .30 SC", I don't know much. I only know a little more than the "nothing" you do. I just cared to know enough about ballistic to understand what I read and, knowing enough about ballistic to understand what I read, I can explain you (or better, I can explain. Unfortunately you can't comprehend) WHY having more than doubled the case pressure in respect to the 8mm RS resulted in a so meagre increase in the performances of the .30 SC, when the external dimensions of the cases are so similar.
Do you know what's the difference between a 21500 psi case and a 45000 psi one?
Brass thickness.
But increasing the brass thickness of a rather small case, you significantly reduce the internal volume, and that hampers the effect of the increased pressure, because the initial spike in pressure decreases more rapidly as son as the bullet starts moving.
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@ "direct impingment" doesn't exist. Pressure doesn't work that way.
The supposed "open tube" of the Ljungman and of the MAS49/56 has an esternal diameter so much bigger than the gas key of an AR 15 (despite the gas pipe being practically equal) because they are pistons, like the piston of an M1 Garand. What pushes the carrier rearward is pressure for surface of the piston. A smaller diameter "gas tube" (mantaining the diameter of the gas pipe, so with exactly the same quantity and speed of the gasses carried) wouldn't have worked, because the pressure would have been there, but not the surface.
"direct impingment" is an expression that Stoner used in his patent, referring to the patent of Elklund, to artificially separate that one to his "internal gas piston". But in reality, the only thing Stoner patented, are the gasses in contact with the bolt (while, in Elklund's patent, the gasses are only in contact with the carrier). Both are piston actions.
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