Comments by "" (@neutronalchemist3241) on "The Italian Last-Ditch TZ-45 Submachine Gun" video.

+HamsterPants522 The reliability index rating of Warrantydirect, an insurer that puts its own money on it, put FIAT on 15th position among car manufacturer, ahead of Hyundai, Subaru, Citroen, Mitsubishi, Volvo, Volkswagen, Saab, BMW, Mercedes, Audi...
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But there is no real loss of efficiency also. The thing is made to be held with the left hand by the safety / magazine holder, while the reload operations are made with the right one (the contrary for a leftie). No loss of speed, and, since you have your left hand around the magazine holder, you can't miss it while changing the magazine, even if you are operating in the darkness, or not looking at the weapon at all.
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+ShadowOfDeath24 It doesn't really. You only have to hold the gun with the forward hand by the safety / magazine holder, and reload with the firing hand. There is no loss of speed at all, and this way, since the forward hand gives to the gunner the exact position of the magazine holder, it's impossible to miss it, even if reloding at night or not looking at the gun at all.
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I'd really like if Ian manages to put his hands over a Variara SMG (there are at least 12 surviving samples, at least one of them in a private collection). It's an insurgent weapon (it was manufactured by Italian partisans during WWII), but it's really the king of insurgent SMGs. Sten-style bolt and charging handle slot, TZ45 style barrel assembly / receiver, FNAB 43 style folding magazine holder (for MAB 38 magazines) MAB38 style double trigger for full auto-semiauto, MP40 style folding stock and pistol grip, original grip safety. Its' like someone decided to put the best features of all those SMGs in one design, that was still easy and cheap to produce and field strip.
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It was produced just before Germany betrayed Japan.
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There is no WTF with this one. The thing is made to be held with the left hand while the reload operations are made with the right one. No loss of speed, and, since you have your left hand around the magazine holder, you can't miss it while changing the magazine, even if you are operating in the darkness, or not looking at the weapon at all.
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The correct reload procedure for a right handed person is: hold the gun with your left hand by the safety / magazine holder and USE YOUR RIGHT HAND TO REPLACE THE MAGAZINE AND OPERATE THE CHARGING HANDLE. is not like you have much to do with your right hand (that's supposed to be your most able one) until the reload procedure is completed, so its better to use it to reload the gun.
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All the known pictures when the particular can be seen, all the surviving samples, and even some rusted sample found with a metal detector, show the safety still in place.
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It's not even that lefties-unfriendly. They only have to operate the charging handle from above. The important part is to perform all the recharging operation with the firing hand.
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+marvincz3 "While you hold the grip safety, you are covering the magazine release." Not really. You can see, IE at 4:51, that the magazine release is well below the position were the left hand's thumb will be. Moreover, the position of the left hand gives to the gunner the exact position of the magazine holder, so it's impossible to miss it, even reloading in the dark, or not looking to the gun at all.
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You really should do some research. The SMG that jammed first was the Thompson of Walter Audisio (those unreliable American weapons...), then he grabbed the Beretta 34 (that's a pistol, not an SMG) of Aldo Lampredi, that jammed too. Mussolini was finally killed with the MAS38 of Michele Moretti.
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All the known pictures when the particular can be seen, all the surviving samples, and even some rusted sample found with a metal detector, show the safety still in place.
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This weapon was not a "last ditch" in the sense of putting the more gun that's possible in the hands of the more peoples that's possible (like the German or japanese ones), It was a "last ditch" intended to be issued to experienced soldiers, only easier to manufacture than a MAB38. The front safety solved a real issue of early SMGs, and had never been a problem in combat situations. The fact that a design is unusual does not mean that's failed.
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Infact. And you change magazine with the right hand while holding the magwell with the left hand, that way you can reload even without looking It was pretty convenient.
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It's not cause the Italians had friendly-fire incidents that much of the SMGs designed after the war uses some kind of automatic bolt locking safety. It's that the experience of WWII taught that the main sources of incidents with those weapons was a hit in the back, that makes the bolt retreat enough to catch a round, and not enough to catch the sear, so cycling and accidentally discharging it. That's only a very simple (it's a last ditch weapon after all) way to solve that problem that, by 1945, was well known.
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Moreover, since the left hand gives to the gunner the exact position of the magazine holder, it's imposible to miss it, even operating in the dark, or not looking at the weapon at all.
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It's not cause they were planning to issue them to 15 and 12 YO soldiers that much of the SMGs designed after the war uses some kind of automatic bolt locking safety. It's that the experience of WWII taught that the main sources of incidents with those weapons is a hit in the back, that makes the bolt retreat enough to catch a round, and not enough to catch the sear, so cycling and accidentally discharging it. That's ony a very simple (it's a last ditch weapon after all) way to solve that problem that, by 1945, was well known.
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The safety lever had never been a issue IRL. None used this one-handed. The front safety solved a real issue of early SMGs, and had never been a problem in combat situations. The fact that a design is unusual does not mean that's failed.
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The safety lever had never been a issue IRL. The front safety solved a real issue of early SMGs, and had never been a problem in combat situations. The fact that a design is unusual does not mean that's failed.
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The front safety solved a real issue of early SMGs, and had never been a problem in combat situations. Any historical picture and any preserved sample has the safety in place. It's simply a severe case of "if it's different from what I'm used to, then it must be wrong".
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@alexm566 There's no vintage picture of that weapon used on the field with the safety deactivated. It seems to be a problem only for modern days commentators
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It pretty much worked very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKx49JQ5Jt8
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In all the pictures taken at the time, and all the preserved samples, the safety is still there. It was not a problem at all IRL.
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Really it requires only to keep on holding the gun by the safety/magazine holder with the forward hand, and perform all the reloading procedure with the firing hand. A leftie only has to operate the charging handle from above.
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It's simply a severe case of "if it's different from what I'm used to, then it must be wrong". It's a disease that affects many firearms commentators.
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It's not that leftie-unfriendly actually. He'll do all the recharging operations with the left hand while holding the safety/magfazine holder with the right. He only has to operate the charging handle from above.
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The safety lever had never been a issue IRL. None used this one-handed. The front safety solved a real issue of early SMGs, and had never been a problem in combat situations. The fact that a design is unusual does not mean that's failed.
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Infact that's the correct procedure, and, since you have your forward hand around the magazine holder, you can't miss it while changing the magazine, even if you are operating in the darkness, or not looking at the weapon at all. It's not even that lefties-unfriendly. They only have to operate the charging handle from above. The important part is to perform all the recharging operation with the firing hand.
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In all the pictures available when the safety is visible, it's free and functioning. It had never been a issue IRL.
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In all the pictures taken at the time, and all the preserved samples, the safety is still there. It was not a problem at all IRL.
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Very few blowback SMGs had a bolt hold open. The correct reload procedure for a right handed person is: hold the gun with your left hand by the safety / magazine holder and use your right hand to replace the magazine and operate the charging handle. Is not like you have much to do with your right hand (that's supposed to be your most able one) until the reload procedure is completed, so its better to use it to reload the gun. More, having the left hand on the magazine well, is very easy to change the magazine in the dark, or without looking (is the same reason the UZI designers wanted the magazine in the handle).
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It doesn't happen IRL. If you see the shape of the sear slot on the bolt, it's not 90° with the receiver, but slightly inclined. That's for the sear to recatch the bolt in any case. BTW, many safeties work that way, introducing a further lock (on the bolt, on the striker, or on the hammer), different from that of the sear. They are designed so that the chain of events described cannot happen.
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Not moving at 90° makes the recatching of the bolt easier, not harder. Many safeties work that way, introducing a further lock (on the bolt, on the striker, or on the hammer), different from that of the sear. They are designed so that the chain of events you described cannot happen.
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So we passed from "presumably" to "it could be, if it had been designed by an incompetent. Have you some clue that an incompetent designed it? I repeat. Many safeties work that way, introducing a further lock (on the bolt, on the striker, or on the hammer), different from that of the sear. They are designed so that the chain of events you described cannot happen.
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There is no animosity, but follow me. You described, like it's higly probable, a chain of events that it's possible in theory, but really it doesn't happen in any weapon that has a similar kind of safety, since it's quite easy to avoid. It can happen only if the designer is amateur that doesn't know what he is doing. Now, there is some clue that the designers of this weapon, didn't know their job?
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We know that those weapon are unsafe, from actual accounts and demonstrations (and yet much of the widely known cases are wildly exaggerated). We don't guess it. To affirm that a wepon is unsafe it must exist, if not a proof, at least some serious clue. There is some clue that the designers of this weapon, didn't know their job?
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The only reason of the non reciprocating handle is to prevent the gunner from using it as a forward assist, that's obviously unsafe in an open bolt design. What the handle does while the weapon is firing is not that important.
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The correct reloading procedure for a right handed person seems to be: hold the gun with your left hand by the safety / magazine holder and use your right hand to replace the magazine and operate the charging handle (that's almost exactly the same procedure of the Bergmann MP35 reviewed last week) and you'll not have loss in combat efficiency at all. Is not like you have much to do with your right hand (that's rupposed to be your most able one) until the reload procedure is completed, so it's better to use it to reload the gun.
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