Comments by "Regis" (@Timbo5000) on "euronews"
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+Sizano Green Too bad that it isn't a myth. Here in the Netherlands, one of the better countries when it comes to integration (unlike for example Sweden, we have laid a lot of focus on integration), it has failed too. According to very recent government research, Muslims in our country have become increasingly religious since their arrival. It was thought that as people would live in a secular country they themselves would become less and less religious and more Dutch as time passed. Instead, mainly because of tensions between different parts of society, they looked to distinguish themselves more from Dutchmen and therefore became more and more religious as a means of separating themselves. 94% of the Moroccans here define themselves as Muslim and 86% of Turks do. About 80% is integrated, meaning that they can speak Dutch at least somewhat well and other baseline things (so the level of integration we achieved is rather good, I think).
Another recent government study showed that Muslims felt the need to behave differently at work. They are "themselves" at home, but when at work or otherwise come in contact with Dutch people they feel the need to conform to Dutch norms (meaning they have integrated fully, to the point of seamlessly working together with Dutch people), but they feel like they have to juggle between cultures al the time and that they can't be themselves at work or around Dutchmen. They have trouble with this, according to the study. They aren't their real selves around Dutch people because their real selves would not be accepted, or accepted less (that's how they feel anyway, but I think they're correct). These were the results of that study.
Multiculturalism has failed. At least with Muslims, who tend to identify themselves by their religion above all. As they come here they're expected to adjust. As they are criticised by society (be it justly or unjustly, both occur), they look for their identity more intensively and find Islam. They become more religious the more they are criticised. And when fully integrated, they still lead dual lives between their homes and the Dutch society. They will never be fully like us if they stick to their religion and culture, which is exactly what they do. It's not a pleasant life for them either, as they can't be themselves around us. They conform to our norms when around us, but can be themselves only at home or with family. This is why they tend to group together in cities; they look for people they can follow their own culture with. And who can blame them? Would we Europeans be able to fully integrate in a culture that is drastically different from ours? Would we not want to live with other Europeans too and live by our own norms when we can? We would do the exact same thing in their shoes. Multi-culturalism does not work. It tries to force people to shun their own culture. It's not good for them and it's not good for us. Multiculturalism works only with cultures that are somewhat alike, compatible if you will.
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+Pasquino Marforio Ah that explains a lot. Mate, that video is complete and utter nonsense. The Internet Censorship Bill is pushed by our national governments. Countries like Germany want this. The European Council of Ministers (our national governments sitting together) voted in favour. The European Parliament (directly voted for by the people) has now rejected it and will vote again on an amended version in september. It's unsure whether it will make it.
Short explanation on how laws are passed in the EU: European Council (our national leaders, like Merkel, Macron, etc. sitting together) draws a political goal for the EU. European Commission (Juncker and his commissioners) make up the actual law that represents the Council's views, then they do a proposition of law. European Council of Ministers (our full governments sitting together) vote on the contents of that proposition of law. The European Parliament (directly chosen representatives) also vote on the contents. Both have the power to amend the law as they see fit.
That video of yours is nonsense. Our national governments are the biggest proponents of this new censorship bill, they are the pushing force behind it. The EU parliament temporarily stopped it. The Commission merely carried out the wishes of the likes of Merkel. Our national leaders are the most important factor in the EU, they guide it. Saying "the EU" made a law is not accurate, because our national governments and the EU are not separate; they are intertwined. Most people we vote for in our national government also play important roles within the EU. And then we have the directly chosen EU parliament. There is no such thing as "EU bureaucrats telling countries what to do", the bureaucrats ARE the countries. So if you criticise this bill, criticise countries like Germany for wanting it
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+Sizano Green I agree individuals can transfer cultures, but we are talking about groups here. It's much more complex. Migrants who come here and are even born here do not "live with the natives", so to speak, they live amongst themselves. A migrant child is raised by his migrant parents, often even raised with a foreign language first and Dutch second. Migrant children live in two worlds: their home, which is filled with their migrant culture, and the outside world, which is filled with Dutch culture. As a child they are influenced by both and as a consequence, will adhere to somewhat of a mixed culture in the end (some may attach more to their home culture, others may attach more to the culture of their peers. And a side note on the peers; those may be migrant children too instead of Dutch children, in which case even the outside world would be a non-Dutch culture).
The exact problem we have with integration here is that migrants do not live with the natives, they live in their own neighbourhoods. We tried scattering them on numerous occasions using different tactics (which are limited in a democratic country for obvious reasons, we can't forcefully remove people from their homes), but in the end migrant neighbourhoods formed again. They love cities and particularly parts of the city where many migrants live. On some occasions, Dutch people are even pestered away from those neighbourhoods! We ask them to ditch their culture and adapt to ours, but they won't. They prefer not to (and as I said before, I don't blame them). And in a democratic country, we of course can't force them to come "live with the natives". They choose to live in separate colonies within the natives' land.
You choose the example of the US, but that's where you make a grave error. European nations aren't the US. We aren't melting pots, we are 90-95% white (talking about the multicultural European countries. Non-multicultural European countries are 99% white). The idea of multiculturalism here is that everyone comes here and they adapt to our culture; a very specific culture. In America there is no specific culture to adapt to, only a rather broad one that is very quickly and easily adopted. Here, the idea is that our native culture rules. In the US the idea is that a lot of cultures come together and essentially have one core thing in common: their love for America (broadly speaking, there is more to the US than that). If a culture is too different from ours, we essentially ask of people that come here to go directly against everything they believe and adopt our culture. This is too much to ask.
Multiculturalism works in the US; an immigrant nation. But it doesn't work in Europe; native communities.
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