Comments by "justgivemethetruth" (@justgivemethetruth) on "The Spectator"
channel.
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@John Scurr I appreciate the apology.
This is complex and hard to talk about. We have heads of state
all over the globe and all through history who have made
decisions like this, and the reaction globally has never been
consistent with an law or legal process. Some very nasty
characters get to leave their countries and retire in comfort
and luxury, often in America, and then some end up murdered
by mobs i.e. Khadaffi, and some swinging by a rope killed by
hooded figures, Saddam Hussein, and others murdered by the US.
In other words I don't think there is a legal process for this,
and to pretend we can start one fairly now in the heat of
passion so to speak is wrong, and wrong-headed.
Countries are not people, and the heads of state and their
inner circle have generally been treated with the same "respect"
as Kings from olden times. Not saying that is right, just that
it is the way things have been historically.
There are a couple of things I would suggest to keep in mind.
I believe that for many years Putin has done the equivalent
of your suggestion - "He could have written a strongly worded
missive on Twitter". He has pointed out his red lines, and
the West has dismissed them and not even bothered to report
it or inform us. Meanwhile the US and maybe NATO spent a total
of about 20 billion in NATO arms, NATO training, and even
taking Ukrainians to war with them experiencing NATO in action,
and setting up and executing a coup and manipulating Ukraine's
government.
That is a covert act of war to Russia. Not only that, but as
Ukraine got close the West, the typical things happened - to
wit, they became a supplier of raw resources for already
existing industries outside Ukraine. Ukraine's industries
were shuttered. Ukraine used to the about 1/3 of the Russian
economy. Ukraine's auto, rail, airplane, and ship building
industries are pretty much dead ,and millions of people are
leaving Ukraine - even before the war.
I have read so much of this recently I forget the source of a
lot of this, so just for the sake of argument assume I am
close. Back in the 90's the US Think Tank Rand did a study
for the military, and the result was they said that way to
destabilize and topple Russia was through Ukraine - so that
to me proves intent, but the US, by the West to attack and
destroy Russia. Most wars have been fought over such things
- Japan attacked Pearl Harbor because the US was blockading
oil to Japan, rightly or wrongly.
The point is that within the realities of nations at war,
Russia was dismissed over and over about a whole host of issues
that were important to Russia, but ignored in the West. So I
think that explains Russia's actions. Of course nothing can
justify an invasion, but this is historically what nations to
when they cannot redress their grievances in any other manner
- i.e. "war is the continuation of politics by other means".
I think it is just as despicable ( unless Ukraine somehow wins
which most believe unlikely ) that the US is encouraging Ukraine
to fight to the last Ukrainian and get their country destroyed
as a proxy army against Russia.
If it was up to me I'd end the war immediately, with the
following conditions - pretty much what Russia wants, Ukraine
should enshrine in their constitution that it shall never join
NATO. That they cede Crimea of Russia who built it and has
huge security and investment concerns there, and who voted to
be with Russia, and to make the disputed territories in Russia
either Russian or independent states.
The problem with this is that the US will not cease causing
trouble in this region, as the US still views itself as at war
with Russia to the end. Also Russia's problem with Ukrainian
nationalists does not get solved and they will continue to be
co-opted and used to fight against Russia and manipulate any
civilian government in Ukraine after any peace.
I would also make it a condition that Putin should be removed
as leader of Russia, or at least have to stand for election
again as soon as possible. I know that is probably unrealistic
and unsatisfying for all, but we as a planet are just not at
the point where we can have a fair international governance
system or a neutral criminal court ... there is no way to
adjudicate these kinds of issues except by force. I guess we
could continue to escalate until we take over Ukraine and
topple Putin assuming that doesn't lead to nuclear annihilation,
but once war is let loose all civilization is at risk.
I am sure I missed something and might have a few questionable
facts, but I think Russia, a nuclear super power basically
threw a tantrum, and in human terms war means people die,
property is destroyed, civilization is set back and things in
general go to hell until people have had enough. I think we
have all had enough, so solve it and the cause was a continued
covert war against Russia by the West, at a time when all of
our best political analysts on both sides though we should be
making peace with Russia. As Peter Hitchens said " I can think
of no other cause in history that could conceivably unite Noam
Chomsky and Henry Kissinger, but both of them say that the
expansion of NATO was a stupid thing to do, and they're both
of them right."
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I do think it is clear the human race is in deep trouble, deeper
as our numbers grow and the insults we heap on our planet accumulate.
> IMHO there is one single aspect over which I would argue to my deathbed on - the
> acceptance of responsibility for his decisions and the the eventual consequences
> he and by connection the Russian population must feel/suffer as a result of that
> one simple yet complicated decision to invade. It is thus for the individual citizen
> of most nations on our beleaguered planet and it must be thus for those governing
> the institution/company/government/team/court etc - the person making the
> decision must always be held accountable for that decision by a supervisory body
> (possibly even a court if all else fails) until we reach that, not necessarily happy but
> nevertheless fairer state the human race is in trouble.
In theory that sounds good, but in practice it is not possible
now, and may never be possible the way we seem to be at the
top built to sustain chaos that can be taken advantage of by
oligarchs and powerful people.
I think of this like if a criminal knows they will face the
death penalty, or the living equivalent, it is the end for
them and they will go all the way ... in this case perhaps
nuclear war and blow up the world. You cannot set human
incentives like that or it will eventually lead to apocalypse.
Remember also that the person in charge, and it is never just
one person. You are showing a very Old Testament view of this
issue ... and I actually sympathize because I think a lot of
problems could be solved by swift and clean justice, but justice
is almost never clean, and to make it swift means making
irreversible mistakes.
It is us the "proles" as you say that live under this 1984-style
world, and the infrastructure around us is growing to the point
of even getting much worse. I see a very dark future for the
99% of humanity. We do nothing but bicker and argue and never
nowhere is there any actual evolution towards freedom from
whatever it is we call democracy.
We pretend it is our President that leads us, but a man with
a 4-8 year term is in no position to deal with someone like
Putin or Xi in China - and they don't, we have what I guess
some would call the Deep State, things like the Rand Corporation
think tank and our whole country is not what it looks like.
I think Putin, as awful as what he did was wrong was, as leader
of Russia doing what he had to do in terms of the survival and
security of the state, and in fact ever more responsibly than
the American President over any number of American actions
where America has been called war criminals. Look at how
corrupt courts often are.
You can find the full story of that by listening at length to
Noam Chomsky. Whatever one thinks of Chomsky's political
beliefs his understanding of history is second to none.
Remember, in the case of American you can sensibly go back in
history to the beginning of the country, nay the New World and
assign blame, but who has the time, the objectivity or the
power to so that. In the case of Ukraine, Russia and the US
there is almost any view of history leads to the same place.
I don't know how familiar you are with that, but again there
Chomsky is a good resource. This video cuts to the most
relevant points.
I think it's a pipe dream to believe that we can have any
control over the next generations of Putins, and because of
the coldness of economics human civilization in most ways is
going backwards. The retrograde history of the US is profitable
and is affecting and turning Europe the same way it has
impoverished Americans. That is a crime just as great as what
Russia is doing, though not as dramatic.
Interesting discussion, appreciate it.
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@isaacxcii4289
Dude, look up why we avoid run-on sentences.
Bottom line is that the hegemon needs a myth to retain its sharply pyramidal/hierarchical, legalistic form; and also needs psychopathy at the top to be able to dehumanize the people under it, and to dehumanize those people to treat them as resources, then disguise that by pretending to care about life an making a big deal about abortion; also to make war on powers that will not submit to it that are not already under its control and subject to its legal means - meaning like how the Supreme Court can justify and rationalize its partisan political actions and decisions.
One hegemon then creates another and its subjects are immersed in it their whole lives and distracted by its rituals and protocols, and never perceive it - therefore over time they are subject to evolutionary pressures - ( like gender things are through sexual selection ), like if the Romans had killed all the Christians, they would have killed off all the real human beings in favor or slaves and psychos ... and then occasionally evolution might pop up an actual throw-back genuine human being, a kwistaq hadarach, who would look quite mystifying to population that is left because of his or her ability to see further and through the social toxic muck.
We have to then just hope that there is enough native human being DNA, or brainpower or knowledge in the culture to overcome psychopathic human behavior that is suicidal, nature-cidal, planetary-cidal.
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