Comments by "Taint ABird" (@taintabird23) on "BBC News"
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'from at least 200AD to 1000AD people from the Western island raided, slaved, and conquered....'
Indeed, but you are comparing the movement and activities of barbaric tribes during the fall of the Roman Empire with the systematic centralised policy of colonisation of Ireland by England. Ireland was laboratory for testing the various command and control
systems which were employed in the establishment of what is often called England's first empire - the colonisation of North American. Your comparison is both ignorant and desperate.
'...what is wrong with Scottish settlers, they are simply Irish returning home, why were they made to feel so unwelcome...'
It was a take over by a people who practiced different customs, culture and religion. The English are leaving the EU because they think its going to happen to them if they remain. One of the characteristics of Brexit is that that the English are leaving the EU because they feel the EU does not respect their history and culture, yet they expect the Irish to forget theirs in relation to Brexit.
'The referendum was a UK referendum...'
Given the backdrop of a diminishing British Demos, and the litany of democratic deficits in the United Kingdom it is quite clear your factually correction statement will carry with it constitutional consequences in the future. Imagine if the EU behaved in such away towards the English?
'The border was drawn up quickly to prevent civil war - surely a laudable aim,...
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The minority were the ones threatening war and were the ones who brought the gun into Irish politics in 1912. Had London called their bluff it is not certain there would have been a Civil War and it would have prevented the division of the island, preventing the extremes that evolved North and South consequently. The Ireland of today would have a different character.
'The line of the border was up for discussion in the 1930's, but the Irish Free State chose not to take that option but opted to have a portion of its share of the national debt cancelled ...'
Wrong. The Border Commission was established in 1920 with partition and lasted until 1925. Its terms were ambiguous and misleading. Ireland engaged in an Economic War with the UK in the 1930s over the payment of Land Annuities. This was settled in 1938 with Anglo-Irish Agreement which saw Ireland make one final payment to the UK and the transfer of the Royal Navy bases at Lough Swilly, Berehaven and Cobh to Irish control.
'An offer of unification was made in WW2 if the South would allow the Royal Navy to use bases in the south which it had only vacated in spring 1939 (all as per the Anglo-Irish Treaty)..." '
Wrong. Churchill sent a telegram to de Valera while drunk, having discussed nothing with Stormont. When the Unionists became aware of the offer they were apoplectic. De Valera never took the offer seriously.
''...very odd as the Republic itself already seems to do highly effective checks away from the border by chasing down those from the South who have bought vehicles in the North...'
This is your most stupid comment. Customs and Excise check cars bought by residents of the Republic for importation dues. This is not the same as placing border checks on Northern Ireland residents and business people on the importation or transit of goods through the republic - which would become the norm once the UK moves away from EU regulations. This would be an intolerable imposition on the people living along both sides of border, often just going about their day-to-day lives.
'Phuk the threats from the men of violence - do not give in to terrorists - '
But you are okay with partition because of the treat of violence by the UVF in 1920. You do not want to give into the threat of violence today, but in 1920 it was right for the UK government to give into the threats of a minority. This is an interesting exercise in Doublethink.
'...it is the EU which will have to implement border checks to protect its blessed single market...'
Not so. Ireland will do it.
'- the UK has said it will not do checks at the border - so what is going to happen - terrorists are going to start killing Protestants again cos the EU stops trucks at the border..?'
Republican dissidents will kill anyone who implements a hard border in Ireland, its just a matter of time.
'The volume of cross border traffic compared to the total volume of EU trade is pathetic - and yet they have made an issue out of it - some see it for what it is.'
Well, you are leaving the EU so your trade to the bloc will drop like a stone next month. Under Brexiter aspirations, it will be fine for NI hauliers to pay a tariff at the border when transiting to the Port of Dublin for ports in the UK or the EU.
'Hope this helps.'
You are no help at all.
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Well Clarissa, you are not remainer. Your condescending post-imperial resentment betrays your Brexiter credentials.
Ireland has made a success of its EU membership, it has modernised its economy, expanded its export markets, developed its infrastructure - thanks to the EU. It has also become a more liberal country, more secure in its national identity and culture - in large part due to EU membership.
The UK, according to the Brexiters, has not made a success of membership, has developed a very narrow version of identity and is less secure about itself. After two world wars and one world cup, it is jealous of German hegemony.
Ireland produces 8 times more food than it needs, and exports much of the surplus to the UK which for all its genius cannot feed itself. Its corporation tax is the envy of many, including the UK which is lowering its own to compete with Ireland. No country 'survives' on corruption and I can't think of any foreign billionaires running it.
Irish people never dug potatoes with their bare hands - you'd use a spade or pitch fork. After a great deal of hard work, Ireland became successful in attracting foreign direct investment from the US and is now the EU HQ for Intel, Apple, Facebook, Yahoo etc. However, it did not happen overnight as you suggest. It has the largest budget airline in the Europe and is a world leader in aircraft leasing and several multi-national agri-food companies that employ 100,000 people around the world.
Today Ireland has a higher GDP per capita than the UK, and, even after the banking debt, a lower debt to GDP ratio than the UK. You won't know this because when you think of Ireland you think 'potatoes'.
Unlike the UK, Ireland knows it is on a shaky nail, exposed as it is to the collateral damage of a distinctly incoherent English nationalist brainfart.
Only people like you can explain why it is expected that Ireland should not defend its interests in such circumstances. When Ireland spoke of its concerns nobody in the UK listened because it was just Ireland - but the EU is listening.. Ireland has been firm in relation to its interests, with the UK in the unusual position of being weaker than Ireland. This must be a complete head wrecker for the British, and given the circus in the UK, it may appear smug. Its just a reality of Brexit.
Brexit is your fault. It is British policy. It is British folly. Not only is this going to damage your economy and standard of living, it will undermine the whole UK. We want to limit the enormous damage it does to us, don't blame the Irish for that. That's our responsibility to ourselves. We didn't ask for Brexit.
The UK is making a pigs ear of Brexit and you know it. The UK is a laughing stock and we Irish are actually embarrassed on your behalf. And we're all fucked. Together. For Ireland its like being tied to a drowning man who likes to remind us that we're going to drown with him.
Finally Clarissa, don't ever enter a quiz with Ireland as your specialist subject, you will only make an eejit of yourself.
Enjoy Brexit.
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@gordonmills7798 'You never cease to amaze me with your anti-English/Westminster rhetoric.'
I'm not anti-English, but I am against the form of English nationalism that led to Brexit. You don't find it in Scottish, Irish or Welsh nationalism, which is inclusive and civic, not binary and ethnic. As for Westminster, it is a joke.
'You really do believe you have all the answers wrapped up in your oracle of facts and assumptions.'
I don't have answers, I only have observations and logic.
'This is your arrogance of which I repeatedly lay at your door each time I correspond with you.'
It is me calmly and coldly holding a mirror up to you, and all you are doing is focusing on my lack of emotion and confidence. Sadly, like many English people unaccustomed to he being critiqued, you assume I am somehow 'anti-English'. There is no reason why the English cannot be their own nation, they are as entitled to it as anyone else - my question is when are they going to grasp it, admit it and stand on their own two feet? No answer is ever given.
'The arrogance you portray is equal to blaming all Germans for the Holocaust.'
You have lost me here. If you have a guilt complex because your ancestors past, that is your business, but it is not healthy. English nationalists need to be able to acknowledge the good and the bad of their past in equal measure. Then you will no longer feel bound to defend the indefensible but be able to critique and understand yourselves and where you have come from as a people. Most of Europe has gone through this process in recent years, including the Germans. But not the English.
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West Brit I voted in favour of the Presidential amendment on the same the day as the marriage equality referendum. It was defeated. That is democracy. You have to be 35 years old to run for President and that is not likely to change any time soon. Like some who feel marriage equality is wrong, I am disappointed but I will accept it.
Regarding the abortion referendum, I don't think you are comparing like with like. Marriage equality takes nothing from anyone, it gives something to those who were excluded before - but its a choice, we are not all obliged to marry members of the same sex. Not even gay people have this obligation.
In your abortion hypothesis, a retreat to a more conservative position does take something from others - in many cases, a free choice.
The Constitutional ban on abortion was lobbied for by an influential conservative Catholic group who intended to ensure that others would not have a choice. Having a blanket ban is not the mark of a free and socially inclusive society. It infringes Civil Rights. Marriage Equality does not impinge on anyone's Civil Rights, so why would No voters feel threatened by that?
Perhaps it has a parallel: in Northern Ireland, equality for Nationalists has also led to Unionist and Loyalist communities feeling a sense of loss. This is counter intuitive but is common in societies undergoing change - some people don't like it. For some reason equality between Nationalists and Unionists makes some Unionists feel that their Culture is being eroded. As with the anti-marriage equality voters, people wonder what is next and draw all kinds of usually ridiculous conclusions. Fear does that, fear of change, and fear was behind the answers Unionists had to Nationalist equality - civil and social exclusion.
The Republic has traditionally been a socially conservative country, and those who did not conform suffered appallingly for it, being put in institutions and shunned. These were the southern solutions, but like our Northern counterparts we are maturing in our own way.
Unlike the Presidential amendment, marriage equality and abortion are considered to be Civil Rights issues. Unlike Marriage Equality, the abortion referendum will be much more complex, between those who want a blanket ban, others who want it available in limited circumstances and the those who want a liberal free choice. It is a much more complex matter than Marriage Equality, in my opinion. While there are no losers when a civil right is protected, in the case of abortion the argument will be about when the Civil Right of the unborn becomes the issue I suspect.
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