Comments by "Wandering Existence" (@WanderingExistence) on "How Money Works"
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@DeltaGreenA You guys realize there are other ways, right?? Cooperatives are economic democracy, if you want more money you can't just rent yourself you deserve to own the profits as well;
"In the 11 years since then, Evergreen Cooperatives has added three more cooperatives to its ranks, growing from two companies with a total of 18 workers in 2010 to five companies with approximately 320 workers. Those workers are paid 20 to 25 percent higher than employees at the cooperative’s competitors. “Our average pay rate is close to $15,” says John McMicken, CEO of Evergreen Cooperative Initiative. “But when you take profit sharing into account, which could equate to $4 to $5 an hour, we’re hoping that we have a shot at breaking the $20 an hour ‘blended rate,’ if you will.” In 2019, the average compensation at Evergreen Cooperative Laundry was around $18 per hour." - Despite a Rocky Start, Cleveland Model for Worker Co-ops Stands Test of Time, by Brandon Duong
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@me-myself-i787 Lmao! Trust me I know how simple it is to plug in numbers into a compound calculator.... I used to set out rather realistic projections for my investments all the time. But the one thing that makes it really hard to keep investing and building wealth to a point where one feels secure enough to take off from work voluntarily, is to be forced out of a job because you're literally unable to fulfill the requirements of nearly any job because of disabling health issues.
I started working and investing at 13. Some of the first stocks that I bought are Home Depot and Google. I've saved and invested and put myself in quite a good position... But I was lucky enough to hear about investing at a young age and lucky enough to have the math brain to understand why compounding was so important. All that said and done, I'm still unemployable due to my health issues, and while I do rely on family and my stock account many things would be much more difficult without state assistance. It's easy to make plans, and it's a bit harder to stick to them... I was able to do both for awhile and set myself up in a good way for the position that I'm in currently, but even though I'm young, and even my health is quite fragile, and that can quickly make you have to scrap your little table to a $1M, just like I had to.
I'm not disagreeing with the math because the math is just the math, but I am speaking from the standpoint of life experience as well as an understanding of economics and finance. One of those economics/ finance lessons is that the understanding that sometimes the economy doesn't make the math work out for most people. Investing $10K/yr is rough when 64% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and most of them can't afford a $1,500 emergency. That would indicate that they don't need to spend money on investments, they should put money into their emergency funds. When people's education, health care, insurance, and housing costs all rise higher than inflation but their wages barely keep up with inflation... That's a deficit that's not going to be magically funded. CEOs and shareholders dividend pay/ buybacks have drastically increased at the expense of workers. I speak as a $GOOG shareholder who is getting a portion of capital appreciation due to $100B in buybacks, meanwhile 7,000 Alphabet employees got laid off. Home Depot loves to give me 8-20% dividend increases annually... But would totally hesitate to increase their wages 8 to 20% annually, and I've literally never done any work other than scan something at the self checkout at Home Depot.
C'mon, I'm a shareholder and even I understand how unfair it is. I hope this wasn't too long for you to read, but I just want you to know the real world example of how those projections sometimes turns out.... It's all a probability curve ;)
P.S. The ACA and Medicaid have saved my life.... Literally.
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@elbarto4069 Why is that the false dichotomy? Personally, I've been interested in two grassroots groups focused on economic democracy, called the Next System Project and the Democracy Collaborative. They have devised a way to keep production local and contract service to cooperatives, called the Preston Model. They have helped multiple cities struggling with job loss due to factory closures build back their communities, in the US and UK. In addition, trade unions, collectives, public banks, credit unions, community land trusts, CSA's, and many other democratically controlled institutions can work together to create democratic networks outside the market to create an economy that doesn't reduce people, their governments, and the environment to a monetary value. I think this can be a viable strategy to give people the autonomy over their work. I believe economic democracy is the only way people who work for the economy will have the economy work for them, their families, and the planet too.
This way of revitalizing communities by building community wealth has helped many communities all over the globe, and it is utilized by the UK labor party and touted by Jeremy Corbyn. Preston, Lancashire became the most improved city in the UK because of community wealth building. https://youtu.be/MObfh_VNqs4
Not to mention, much of the progress in labor rights has been due to union's collective power. The thing that draws my conviction to the movement is that I can see it now, helping empower people to live happier, healthier, and wealthier lives.
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@d33pblu3 What free market? All I see is markets rigged by capitalists from literally before the genocidal inception of the Homestead acts. Capitalism has always used government violence to create and protect private property. The point of cooperatives is to change ownership from private to social, by switching to social ownership it changes the coordinating environment and incentives to disengage from being debased by markets. By democratizing ownership through cooperatives and other institutions, more democratic ways of allocating resources can be developed that don't use market forces.
Personally, I've been interested in two grassroots groups focused on economic democracy, called the Next System Project and the Democracy Collaborative. They have devised a way to keep production local and contract service to cooperatives, called the Preston Model. They have helped multiple cities struggling with job loss due to factory closures build back their communities, in the US and UK. In addition, trade unions, collectives, public banks, credit unions, community land trusts, CSA's, and many other democratically controlled institutions can work together to create democratic networks outside the market to create an economy that doesn't reduce people, their governments, and the environment to a monetary value (which market forces naturally do). I think this can be a viable strategy to give people the autonomy over their work. I believe economic democracy is the only way people who work for the economy will have the economy work for them, their families, and the planet too.
This way of revitalizing communities by building community wealth has helped many communities all over the globe, and it is utilized by the UK labor party and touted by Jeremy Corbyn. Preston, Lancashire became the most improved city in the UK because of community wealth building. https://youtu.be/MObfh_VNqs4 Not to mention, much of the progress in labor rights has been due to union's collective power. The thing that draws my conviction to the movement is that I can see it now, helping empower people to live happier, healthier, and wealthier lives.
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@thetapheonix What on Earth are you talking about with confiscation or buying oil land? Dude, it's a tax 🤦
The government doesn't have to buy the land/ resources or confiscate the land/ resources they just tax the value of the land/ resources, which leads to private stewardship and development, as well as socializing the value of land. Dude, this should have been obvious. Do you understand what Georgism is?
It really looks like you ignored the whole part of my comment about increasing cooperative equity... I talked about democratizing asset inflation. UBI can help people take extra risks to start their own business or buy equity into a cooperative. You straightforwardly deny the fact that diverting money from corporations to the people would affect income inequality... It literally democratized income. Then you bring it up as if I didn't know about it or didn't spend time writing about it decreasing CPI inflation by allowing more people to benefit from asset inflation (that's a feature not a bug, not all inflation is bad). The question isn't about nominal inflation, it's about whether real wages and real asset inflation are growing. Alaska and Norway are very remote areas, this leads to high transaction costs which get passed on, it's weird disingenuous that you would ignore such an obvious aspect. I also think it's weird that you're ignoring the fact that Norway has one of the highest standards of living and happiness, which raises the question how much value do you place on happiness?
You really couldn't google "taxes that decrease inflation"? Progressive income tax removes excess buying pressure from higher incomes, progressive consumption taxes can also do a similar thing. Land Value Tax puts extra pressure on speculators to develop it into something useful or put land on the market, this puts some more supply onto the market and increases the competitive forces within the real estate market.
I honestly don't know if you understand, or are even reading, anything in my comments, because you seemed to talk right past me. If it looks like you're doing that again I'm just going to peace out.
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