Comments by "" (@freesk8) on "Mark Moss"
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I like your natural rights. Even we atheists can value them. Instead of god-given, we start with a kind of Euclidian assumption: that we own our own bodies and lives. You Christians might say your life is a gift from god. We come to the same place. Well, if you own your life, then you own your future, your present and your past. This is where life, liberty and property come from. Killing you deprives you of your natural future. Enslaving you deprives you of your present. And stealing from you deprives you of the fruits of your past labor. John Locke came up with the triad of basic rights we find in the 5th and 14th amendments. But theist or atheist, as long as each individual adult is said to be the proper owner of their own lives, then the natural rights are a logical result. Socialists, on the other hand, assume the individual is owned by the collective, or by the state. Royalists assumed the king owned you.
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@1MarkMoss Christians tend to argue for natural rights by saying they come from God, and that is a persuasive thing IF you happen to be talking to a Christian, Jew or Muslim. But most of the lefties we are trying to persuade about natural rights are not impressed by that approach. But they DO want to say that individual adults own their own bodies. They need this particular assumption for their abortion position! So, we can use that to persuade them that the most important, fundamental rights come BEFORE governments and not from them. If we really can show them that an underlying assumption of collectivist ideologies like socialism and democratic socialism and communism actually is the opposite, that the state or the community or the collective own their bodies, we might get some traction. Lefties seem to appreciate the right to liberty, especially in sexual matters, and with respect to opposition to slavery. But lefties tend not to be so happy about property rights. If we can show them that they are all one thing, indivisible, then maybe we can make some progress. Property rights are about defending a woman's ownership of her own body! Anyway, that's my strategy for persuading lefties. Love your video. We Libertarian atheists are happy and proud to fight for liberty at the shoulders of our Christian Libertarian friends! :)
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