Comments by "Horatio82" (@horatio8213) on "Military History not Visualized"
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@valterskye7934 "@Horatio82 Why are you believe in all that's bullsht you post here? whats bad in communism?"
Well every thing that Hitler and nazist do, eralier was don by communist. People claim that most evil men in history was Hitler. I disagree, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Phot are communist that done things much more worse than done by Hitler. And most of this things were done to own nations!
I know that many people support communism because belive propaganda. But I am old enough to remember how communism destroy economy of my country, how communist forbbiden to ask question about communist crimes.
Millions killed by commnism in 20th century is enough to know that communism is the same evil like nazism. Do you ever heard about Gulags, Great Purge, Holodomor or Polish Operation of NKVD in 1930's? And that is just a peak of pill of communist crimes.
Do you know that the same day when Auschwitz was liberated by Red Army, the same Red Army put there a "enemies of communism". The same was done in place like Majdanek, other nazi camp! Putin is pride of liberation, but do not speak what happened there after liberation!
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@simplicius11 just reconize and understand that simple facts. From 22nd June to end of 1941 (!) Red Army losses were colossal. Look on planes and tanks, artillery and transport, it was just fast decreasing numbers. Most of produced tracks were lost. Production of trucks and others vehicles was halted and soviet industrial capacity was redirected on weapons production. It's the same reason why they didn't modernize T-34 before late 1942. Little joke about state of mobilization in USSR, it was ending in the June of 1941, just because Soviets were prepering to attack Germans from months. One of biggets lie is that Operation Barbarossa was any secret for Stalin. Both sides were prepering to offensive strike in 1941.
Next fact is that soviet trucks was copies of older models bought on licence, look on ZiS trucks, just simplified and much poorer models of western trucks from early 1930s. Obsolete in comparation with standard german models like Opel Blitz. It is also problem with quality of soviet production, you can seriously claim that you can compare quality and performance of this trucks to western counerparts. Not even close to compare 1940s USA production standards.
Halftrack or armoured trucks/carriers were essential to create formation like Panzer Grenadiers or mechanized infantry. Red Army have no units like it, only in recon/scout formation. That was reality of soviet resources. Because of low numbers in production everything connected to motorization, simple and easy to understand. Not enough trucks even for first line formation, just enough for logistic effort.
We can disscuse about opinions, but facts are brutally clear, after disaster of half of 1941 year USRR need 3 years to rebuild with enourmous allied help transport capacity in truck fleet. Trains were important, but you need fast way to transport supply from end stations to front line units. Less trucks mean slower buildup of offensive capibilites of Red Army.
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@yaqppl When Germans suggest that nPoland sholud join Anti-Commintern Pact respose was: NO, WE ARE NOT INTERESTED.. Poland was ofered that first time as a suggestion to polish ambassadore in Berlin, Lipski. His respond was that Poland can't agree on that without breaking Polish-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact from 1932. That happen after Munich and in the first days of 1939 Beck respond that the Poland is not interested in this pact!
You can find it in many aricles about Germans trying put Poland into alliance against USSR.
"M. LÉON NÖEL, French Ambassador in Warsaw, to M. Georges Bonnet, Minister for Foreign Affairs. Warsaw, April 30, 1939.
ONE of my colleagues has learned from one of the most intimate collaborators of M. Beck that in September, January and March last, the German Government proposed to Warsaw collaboration against the U.S.S.R.
To a question by my colleague, M. Beck's collaborator, without wishing to define these proposals, replied that they went far beyond an adhesion of Poland to the Anti-Comintern Pact.
LÉON NÖEL."
"Signing non-agression papers with Moscow had less than none impact value on that matter. "
Poland do not want to be in alliance with Third Reich or USSR because that would put them against on one of neirbors. Pact with Moscow was respected and that was one of important points why Hitler propositions were rejected. Irony is that USSR make allaince with Hitler when Poland refusse and Hitler have no allies in continent. Even Italy was against war!
"Poles avoided contact with Red Army, that's right, but there already were no real forces on east in september. Mainly empty garrisons, depots, logistics, units under messed mobilization, and few thousand of KOP corp. stretched on enormous border. Most of them just threw their brownings and mausers in sane calculation of chances against 400 000 soviets."
On territories that USSR invaded were thousends of polish soldiers (around 200 000 after mobilization and in training), policemans and civil service members. KOP members were attacked and killed without warning on border because they were seen as a main target in first hour. Soldiers with officers capitulated only when they were surrounded and many times Soviets lie that they came to fight with Germans.
Some bigger polish units beat Red Army and go west to fight with Germans. Operational Group "Narew" under general Kleberg fought with Soviets and Germans in the same time.
And to show you how false is narration it is, read how Grodno civilians prefer defence against incoming Red Army.
As conclusion how it really was look on this two things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QspnYAYGJ04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA__56vFqa8
Also how stiupid was to belive Stalin when you see on example of Baltic States. Polish officers in the end were killed by Soviets in Katyn and other places. That is why no one belive in soviet good will.
And I agree that taking portion of Czechoslovakia in 1930's was stiupid.
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@yaqppl Noel wrote "...that in September, January and March last, the German Government proposed to Warsaw collaboration against the U.S.S.R."
September of 1938 was the time when Germans annexed part of Czechoslovakia, not whole country! It is not 1939 but September of 1938! He wrote about polish government was not interested in Germans proposition any way! From September 1938! Poles only delay Germans effort to give them time. If Poles want to join Germans because they know that then they would fight against France, UK and USSR in the same time. But in the same time they do not know that Stalin was ready to talk with Hitler to give him reason to start war and get his share in spoils of war.
If you do not read what he wrote that is not my fault! I give one source with clear recognition of polish staments, but you still do not accept that.
In the end Poland do not become German ally, Stalin did! And in situation when Hitler was in corner, German economy was on bring of collapse, any of his allies could strength his position against Poland. France and UK. And then Stalin propose pact to cut Europe in half and cooperate against Poland in invasion! Do you seriuosly want to blame Poles for cooperation with Hitler in comparison of that?
"In your other argument, worth of mentioning are numbers. Soviets took captive above 200 000 polish soldiers, 13000 killed in action or wounded.
Germans took captive above 600 000, killed or wounded 200 000. Captive to death/wound ratio is saying enough on subject of resistance on eastern border."
You compare situation when Poland was fighting in the west with aggressor and concetrate main army forces on this front, with situation when neirbor which guarantee neutrality attack without any provocation! On west Poles were in full scale war, on east they were mobilizating forces. Most polish territory before 17th September was under polish control. After soviet attack and deception campaing it took to Red Army to took this 200 000 to capture. You compare situation when we know that Germans are with war with us, with situation when Red Army activly claim that they just defending civilians against German invasion and even claim that they would be fighting with them!
And if you claim that Poles didn't fight with Red Army you basicly lie. And there is lot of exapmles for that.
Whole numbers of battles and lot of them lose by Red Army even with major advantage on Soviet side!
If you compare that with situation of 1941 in USSR, what would happen when Japan would join to war against USSR, claiming that in east there is no major Red Army forces and annexed this land because USSR can't defend them?
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@yaqppl ""polish soldiers capitulated under point of soviet gun". Oh, how suprising. Thats not an argument, every army is armed in guns, not teddy bears. Even Czechs gave their freedom under threat of bombing Prague, nobody gaves it freely.
"
Little hint, Soviets lied that they came to fight against Germans and still some polish units fight them, some capitulate in good will. But you also forget that in the same time rest of polish army fought Germans in west. There i s massive difference when you are missinform that someone came to help you and in the last minute surround you and point guns on you. Whole case is not to be compared. Plus even polish high command order to avoid fighting Soviets for all cost, only when they try to disarm Poles! In amny cases that cause chaos because Soviets brake many agreements about treating polish forces. They many times invite polish officer to negotiation and arrest them at once! Tell me how you could fight when enemy claim that he will help you and in the same moment he surrond you?
"Poles in 1939 lost 3 000 killed, 10 000 wounded, and 250 000 taken captive. That's not even comparable, it's nearly 20:1.
Even French had 5:1 in 1940."
Nicy try, but French fought war with Germans and was not attacked by USSR from behind! You compare two different campaings. Compare whole Polish loses in campaing. You use wrong number including only including defeting soldiers without any structure of command against soviets to full campaing in West. Poles lose whole country against two invader, how you can claim that they didn't fight? It took whole month to crush Poland by two biggest military in world and you are supprise that second line units without strucure of command was suprised and destroyed. Big portion of this 250 000 was reatriting from west to go to south part of Poland! Red Army invasion make polish defence at that reagion impossiable! Many of this soldiers were captured in way from mobilization points to units when they have any weapons! They were going to be armed when they would be joining forming units! How you want fight without weapons?
"3 mln taken captive, an 3.5 mln killed, and only during barbarossa. That makes almost 1:1 ratio. It suggest heavy fighting dude. Bad argument."
Why you lie, Soviets lose some of 700 000 killed in this operation. 6 millions was wounded or captured! In situation ehen Red Army was keep in line by NKVD! Nobody in polish army was killing polish soldiers for retreating or for capitulation! Polish soldiers many times fights to the end. Even Germans and Soviet admits that!
As an example. Captain/Rotmistrz Narcyz Łopianowski polish cavalry officer and his unit beat soviet tank unit without any heavy anti-tank weapons destroying few tanks! Soviet were so impressed that they want
him to join there "polish army" against Germans, which they start creating by selecting officers in 1940!
You compare again two tottaly different situations! Soviet prefer in own sources claim bigger loses to cover up mass dessertions and that German capture so much soldier of Red Army without fight! Whole soviet units were just gone without one shot!
I understand you anti-polish bias, but that don not agree with facts. You use only maipulated statistics and "forget " to compare facts in proper order. That is not really sign of open mind.
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@valterskye7934 In 1935 in USSR show world a biggest army manuevers in the world. With hundreds aof tanks and hevy equipment, first massive paratrooper use. In 1930's USSR buildm more tanks that any nation in the world toghether. That is just a peak how USSR under Stalin prepare to spread revolution!
https://www.google.pl/search?sxsrf=ACYBGNRjiVrJ_o8entaG7neTNeIaZBp9Ow%3A1579700586570&ei=alEoXq-_ItWFhbIPp9-3sAs&q=kiev+manuevers+in+1935&oq=kiev+manuevers+in+1935&gs_l=psy-ab.3...7063.14042..14417...1.2..0.96.1750.22......0....1..gws-wiz.....10..0i71j35i362i39j35i39j0j0i67j0i203j0i10i203j0i22i30j0i22i10i30j33i160j33i10i160.i8vwSIqmFck&ved=0ahUKEwivnMGiq5fnAhXVQkEAHafvDbYQ4dUDCAo&uact=5
Red Army have milions of train reservist in 1930's and do not need more than 2 mln soldiers active! No country in world spent more resources to training and exmantion of Army in 1930's, even Germans or Japan were dwarfed by Soviet war machine. 26 000 tanks that Red Army posses do not come from air! There were produce whole 1930's.
"Soviet in thier belives seen themself as a liberators. But noone want them and communism!". Exactly the reason com parties were banned and million of communists worldwide were killed."
Nobody killed milinos of communist in 1920's and 1930's. Only Stalin did it in his Great Terror, his first victimes were old bolsheviks. His only big obstacle to power.
This communist you wrote were banned because they act in intrest of Moscov not own countries. Just take a look how this comunist enslave own nations to serve Stalin ater 1945!
In 1939 French government banned communist party, because it's mebers sabotage war against Third Reich and were spreading propaganda that Third Reich is not enemy for France and USSR!
"The party was banned in 1939 on the outbreak of World War II. Under Comintern direction the PCF opposed the war and may have sabotaged arms production. The leadership, threatened with execution, fled abroad."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_French_Communist_Party
"Look.. in 1940, 3rd Reich was tremendously strong fully mobilised land power, which utterly crushed France. Literally everybody in the world knew, that it will go east sooner or later. Soviet Union trade with 3rd Recih were close to irrelevant. Germans were abusing lots of ocuppied contries + the Axis trade + Sweden + Switzerland trade and oil smuggle."
Yeah but real numbers of soviet trade do not agree with you. USSR was sending key products that keep Third Reich economy! Without that help there would be invasion on France! German ships that take a part in invasion on Norway were using Murmansk as a base! In 1939 Minsk radio was directing with signal Luftwaffe planes bombing Poland!
Even after beating France there were no chance for Germany to function with enough capacity to stay on war with UK and be isolated. USSR basicly create moster that nearly destroy them!
"During both the first period of the 1940 agreement (February 11, 1940, to February 11, 1941) and the second (February 11, 1941, until the Pact was broken), Germany received massive quantities of raw materials, including over:[71][73]
1,600,000 tons of grains
900,000 tons of oil
200,000 tons of cotton
140,000 tons of manganese
200,000 tons of phosphates
20,000 tons of chrome ore
18,000 tons of rubber
100,000 tons of soybeans
500,000 tons of iron ores
300,000 tons of scrap metal and pig iron
2,000 kilograms of platinum
In August 1940, Soviet imports comprised over 50% of Germany's total overseas imports, which declined at this time to 20.4 thousands of tons.[74]
The trade relations ended when Germany began Operation Barbarossa and invaded the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941.[75] The various items that the USSR has sent to Germany from 1939 to 1941 in significant amount, can be substituted or obtained by increased imports from other countries.[76]
Without Soviet deliveries of these major items, Germany could barely have attacked the Soviet Union, let alone come close to victory, even with more intense rationing"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_Credit_Agreement_(1939)
"Almost everything you say is an idiotic bullshit. Just look at your statements: Stalin was killing his own army, wanted to conquer the World and wasnt idiot."
No he wasn't idiot, he just underestimated Hitler and his urge to start the war even when Germany were unprepared! Stalin was clever and cold calculating monster, but even him can predicted how irracional was Hitler. He was using Hitler to gain his prize but in the end that bite him in the ass.
All that bullshit about peacfull USSR was always a propaganda game. Maybe at first Stalin was affaraid intervention against USSR, but in second part of 1930 he play key role with destabilisation of Europe and eruption of WW2.
How weak Third Reich was you can see here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVo5I0xNRhg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQGMjDQ-TJ8&t=5s
Yu should read Mark Solonin, a real russian historian who show how bad in long term was alliance of Hitler and Stalin.
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