Comments by "Bill Sugg" (@billsugg9564) on "Ryan Chapman" channel.

  1. Dude! I’ve watched a lot of videos about the history and relationship between the two countries...a lot (and have lived in both). This is probably the most well balanced, non-emotional , non-partisan, fact-based explanation of the issue. Once again, you prove to have a level head and no agenda other than dissemination of the facts. Thank you, sir. We need more tubers like you out there.
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  2. Another well balanced, well researched video, sir. You obviously worked very hard to elaborate on subject in response to comments that were perhaps not originally made in good faith. I admire your attention to detail and your respect for hard definitions.
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  3.  @malaysiaterdedah3934  trying to reclaim former glories has been the stated purpose of the CCP for a long time. There is nothing strange or unique to that approach; many countries have used that approach. And there is totally such a thing as a Taiwanese language. It developed from a FuJian dialect and has become its own thing in Taiwan. I know several people who speak it.
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  4.  @clarkl7027  Taiwan’s official name is the Republic of China which is not the same as the People’s Republic of China. The two countries couldn’t be more different these days.
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  5.  @clarkl7027  that is a simple answer...and ultimately incorrect. The UN does not recognize R.O.C. as the legitimate ruler of China as I once did because America changed her stance on the subject for economic gain with the P.R.O.C.. ChiangKai Shek, on his deathbed, would not allow Taiwan to be considered its own country and still clung to idea that the R.O.C. would one day rule the Middle Kingdom again. That dream, of course, died with him. Very few people in Taiwan still think China is or should be “Western Taiwan”. That’s an old idea. Now, however, the country once know as Formosa then Taiwan is not ruled by the R.O.C. (though it still keeps that as its official name) or the K.M.T. (which is basically the R.O.C.). It is a vibrant, liberal democracy with a strong economy and lots to offer the world. I suggest you visit or live there if you haven’t already. It truly is a wonderful country.
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  6.  @yimataia1629  according to the Taiwanese whom have lived in FuJian, China, the locals there have trouble understanding the Taiwanese dialect and likewise the Taiwanese people have trouble understanding the FuJian dialect even though these dialects are related. This underlines my point that the two dialects have diverged greatly. This is not unusual in linguistics; we see this many times in history across many different language families. You are right, however, that these are all dialects and that the main language (really just one of many) is Mandarin, which most people call “Chinese”. And while Mandarin is certainly the major language of China, Taiwan, etc., one could argue that it’s just the most popular dialect. A truly fascinating place, Asia.
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  7.  @clarkl7027  a war would be very sad indeed, devastating even. That’s why the CCP needs to back off and let Taiwan be Taiwan. It’s clear that the Taiwanese don’t want to be the next Hong Kong or the next Ukraine. I’ve lived in or been to some of those cities as well (not GuangZhuo) and I find the subtle differences between the people (not just the government) quite jarring. And religion? It’s a bigger part of daily life in Taiwan because they never went through the social revolution. How’d you like Taibei? Did you visit elsewhere in the country?
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  8.  @clarkl7027  , actually the island nation is currently a democratic one. The ROC doesn’t rule anything any more...it’s just the official name of the country. It’s a two party system (the PROC is a one party system) and the current ruling party is DPP or Democratic People’s Party, not KMT which was once the sole ruler of Taiwan and China. It’s confusing I know. But you you are right that Taiwan’s constitution is unchanged since the days it was ruled by the nationalist party, the KMT. At that time, their goal was to retake the mainland and expel the communists. That didn’t go as planned. So, now Taiwan democratized and became the paradise it is today. Here again, I invite to visit or live in Formosa.
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  9.  @miloozie  except that most people in FuJian (who speak the local dialect) cannot understand the Taiwanese dialect. It has changed that much.
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  10.  @clarkl7027  you are nearly correct except the idea of one country. They certainly are two separate governments and the Civil War never really ended, but one country? It depends on your definition of “country”. It is usually defined by a land mass or area of land whose people are uniformly governed by a single administrative body.
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  11.  @clarkl7027  you left out whole chunks of Taiwan’s history (like a lot). Did you watch the video we are commenting under. Mr. Chapman does an excellent job of describing the situation and laying out an unbiased history. You should check it out.
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  12.  @clarkl7027  very nice! And indeed more detailed than Ryan’s video, but then again, his video wasn’t strictly about Taiwan’s history. His point, I believe, was that, from Taiwan’s perspective, they have endured colonial rule for centuries. Even the KMT with their ROC institutions seemed foreign to the local Taiwanese. I think we can agree on that.
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  13.  @clarkl7027  only those that came over with ChiangKaiShek. The locals already living there would not. To them, perhaps, even the KMT were outsiders.
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  14.  @clarkl7027  , so your argument is that if Taiwan’s official name is the Republic of China (and vestigial remnant of the past) and her people speak Mandarin (but they also speak Taiwanese), eat like Chinese people (not entirely, no), think like Chinese (which clearly isn’t the case given that Taiwan never suffered through Mao’s Cultural Revolution), then they are, in fact, Chinese? Is that your point? It certainly seems to be. This is why I think your point of view is erroneous: Putting aside the fact that you are completely ignoring the island’s native population, known in Taiwan as the RenJuMin, who were there looooong before China was even a thing, you don’t seem to recognize how nation states are formed over time and how cultures diverge and evolve. It is a beautiful process we are seeing that transcends despotic claims of jingoistic glory. Taiwan has never once been ruled by the Chinese Communist Party nor the People’s Republic of China. That is an indisputable fact.
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  15.  @clarkl7027  Texas? Really? C’mon man, I don’t even even where to start correcting you on that. Scotland? Do you not remember the referendum from several years ago? Catalonia? Yeah, Spain is being as heavy handed with them as China is to Taiwan except Spain can actually exert legal pressure on Barcelona because Catalonia is actually, legally, part of Spain, whereas Taiwan, as you know, is not actually part of the PROC.
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  16.  @clarkl7027  yes, the Taiwanese are culturally Chinese (similar to some Singaporeans). In many cases the Taiwanese are more Chinese than the Chinese because, yet again, they did not go through Mao’s Cultural Revolution which destroyed a lot of temples, religions, and even the written language. The cuisines are similar of course, because as you’ve stated, they originated on the mainland, but have morphed and modulated as these things tend to do. So, culturally, Taiwanese are Chinese (more Chinese than China in some cases). The term in Mandarin is “Hua Ren”. Taiwan is not now nor never has been part of the PROC. Fact.
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  17.  @clarkl7027  ah ha! If you admit that Taiwan is not part of the PROC, then they cannot rationally be considered part of China seems China is controlled by the CCP...unless you are saying there two Chinas. Is that what you are saying?
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  18.  @clarkl7027  well, it wouldn’t be a “reunification” because, by your own words and historical research, the PROC and ROC were never together. One could that Taiwan (as a land mass) would be reunified, but sense you’ve already said that there is no Taiwan then that impossible by your reasoning. You still have yet to define what you think a country is, by the way. And let’s face it, it probably won’t be a peaceful unification if the CCP is still charge. Those guys are brutal.
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  19.  @clarkl7027  because your (and I realize that it isn’t just yours) reasoning sounds a little like a man from 1930’s Germany who insisted that Austria was Germany’s because they spoke German and ate Schnitzel or whatever. Not a one-to-one comparison but the justification is the same. China, as a land mass, is controlled by the CCP who never, not even for one second, ever controlled the island now known as Taiwan. If they were to take the island it would not be reunification, because clearly that government (the PROC) never ruled the island...ever. Let me ask you question however, if the government of Taiwan were some how to miraculously take the land mass known as China, thereby dismantling and defeating the PROC and the CCP, would that be reunification in your eyes?
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  20.  @clarkl7027  , excellent question. I believe the answer would, like now, depend on whom you asked. Essentially though, the CSA seceded from the Union to form its own country which is what the war was basically about from the Northern side. Here again the question of what exactly is a country is both a philosophical one as well as a legal one. A very interesting and confusing topic no doubt.
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  21.  @clarkl7027  That’s certainly one way to look at it, but here again, it all depends on how you define a “country”. I must admit that saying “There are two Chinas.”, which what you seem to be saying, is closer to reality than saying “There is one China and the PROC is it.” At least we agree that the two entities are separate and, in my opinion, should probably stay that way as long as the CCP controls the main land.
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  22.  @clarkl7027  No, you totally tried a gotcha moment with that East/West Germany distraction, but at least you’re being honest and fair with your definitions. Taiwan was once part of China (as well as many other nations) but now, since China is controlled by the CCP a.k.a. the PROC; and since they have never, not once, controlled the island, it’s hard to claim Taiwan as part of China. The China Taiwan was part of doesn’t exist anymore. Not to mention that so much has changed on the island. They are not ruled by the ROC anymore, it’s just their official name. The ROC was a nationalist party who basically ceded the nation of Taiwan to itself when they went democratic. A staggering and increasing number of Taiwanese identify exclusively as Taiwanese and fewer and fewer identify as exclusively Chinese. The Taiwanese won’t no part of what the PROC has to offer which would undoubtedly be subjugation, surveillance, and possibly genocide. For the sake of argument, let’s say you are right and Taiwan is still part of China, well, then they are the better part; that’s for sure. They have preserved ancient traditions and religious practices that modern day, CCP-controlled China doesn’t have. Reunification as a term that would only apply if Taiwan takes the mainland (which may never happen sadly). If the PROC takes Taiwan (a disaster for sure), it would be “unification” at best an “invasion” at worst. I appreciate your position, but I respectfully disagree. You may be technically correct but in every other sense (as I have demonstrated), Taiwan is its own country and could only counted as part of China if China weren’t ruled by the CCP. The two governments could not be more different.
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  23.  @clarkl7027  I lived in (not visited) ShangHai from 2017-2020. There was a subtle yet unmistakable oddness to the air there. The stain of authoritarianism blackened the culture and the collective souls of the people in a way that ever present and oppressive. By comparison, Taiwan enjoys freedoms of all kinds and is even more free than America in many respects.
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  24.  @clarkl7027  this is a long thread, so you may have missed it, but I have made several references to Mandarin words and terms as well as mentioning what locals of both Taiwan and China have told me. So, yes, I can speak Mandarin. I can even write and read a little bit, but this skill wasn’t as useful in China because they use simplified characters because Mao eradicated the old ways of writing (for better or for worse) like he did so much of traditional Chinese culture. It was one of the many sins the CCP have perpetrated on the Chinese people. Luckily traditional Mandarin survives in Taiwan as does much of traditional Chinese culture. It is a bright and vibrant place where someone who truly loves traditional Chinese culture should visit. Oh, by the way, that despondent malaise I was referring to might exist in other cities (I alluded to that possibility my last post as well...in case you over looked that too), but not in Taibei, Taizhong, Kaohsiung by the way. Those cities are in the country of Taiwan funny enough. However, I think that atmosphere is unique to China (not just ShangHai); I blame the cultural revolution.
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  25.  @yimataia1629  I’m trying to help you get to the bottom of your issue with YouTube by identifying it. You were being rude and insulting the past, so I suggested maybe that’s the issue, and all you do is return with the same demeaning, rude, and insulting language. You clearly aren’t interested in a reciprocal or constructive conversation which is a shame because you had an attentive listener in me. You chose the wrong path.
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  26.  @yimataia1629  sure, but the next time you start to be insulting, we’re done.
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  27.  @medeliworld  well, the reality is that a vast, vast majority of Taiwanese citizens identify as Taiwanese exclusively (something like 70-80% I believe). This stat was stated in Mr. Chapman’s video if I’m not mistaken and with a fact like that, the wish of a billion plus Chinese citizens is effectively irrelevant when it comes to what the Taiwanese want and feel. Migrated? Some maybe, but China does not allow for dual citizenship, so these millions of Taiwanese you speak of might live and work there, but I’m sure a large majority retain their Taiwanese citizenship. I don’t think any Taiwanese citizen who watches the news would accept the “one country, two systems” model after what happened to Hong Kong.
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  28.  @Twodime4032  I see what you are saying, but you must understand that loose and amorphic values are no basis on which to stake a claim on a sovereign country like Taiwan. One can say that “Chinese” is a language, cuisine, culture, and so much more that expands beyond the invisible lines of a territory but China as a country does not extend over the Taiwan strait.
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  29.  @DESERTCB1  it was. He brings a similar level of research and bi-partisanism to all of his videos.
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  30.  @hengzi-cartoon  that’s close to the truth, but you have to understand that it’s hard to claim legality when the civil war basically never ended.
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  31. Ryan, thank you for using the word “unification” instead of “reunification” which is often used erroneously.
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  32. Another great, well- researched, non-colored, informative effort!
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  33.  @clarkl7027  which China?
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  34.  @clarkl7027  this sounds like Germany circa the 1930’s.
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  35.  @clarkl7027  I didn’t say 1990, did I? I said 1930s.
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  36.  @clarkl7027  ...so in case you missed it the first time, I was not talking about cold world era Germany. If you go back and read what said originally, as well as my later reiteration, you will see that I clearly stated that your justifications and definitions sound like 1930’s Germany.
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  37.  @clarkl7027  Your question was a bit off topic and, if we’re being honest, a bit devious as well. You’ve been an excellent debate partner up until that point. However, if you continue to pursue “gotcha” moments rather than honest debate, I’m afraid I have nothing more to say to you. Not once did I bring up Cold War Germany. You still have yet define what a country is. I have and Taiwan meets all those requirements and more. Also, you cannot refute the fact that the CCP has never, not once, had any control over the island of Taiwan. Nor have you answered my on-topic question about whether or not Taiwan taking over the mainland (unlikely though it may be) would be considered reunification in your mind. You are an good debater and have done your research, but please, if we are to continue this line of dialogue, please refrain from deception and distractions and do stay on topic. Thank you.
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  38.  @clarkl7027  the DPP is just a political party, like the KMT. The KMT, not the DPP, controls most of the media by the way. Taiwan is a two party system unlike the PROC which has only the CCP and if you wanna talk about brainwashing, media control, and transforming (some would say “corrupting”) the Chinese identity, look no further than the Chinese Communist Party. This is evidenced by the fact that, in mainland China, one can have only one public opinion and that opinion must agree with the CCP. Also, most of what was one Chinese was destroyed by Mao. You know I’m right about that. It is an authoritarian state.
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  39.  @clarkl7027  they would be Taiwanese news programs, not “Chinese”, unless you mean the language not the country. Most folks in Taiwan (that I’ve talked to) seem to believe the news in Taiwan skews blue. I generally go with how the locals feel. This may not be the most accurate way to take the pulse, but I’m more interested in the common man.
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  40.  @clarkl7027  most regular folk I encountered in ShangHai had a certain despondency about them, as if they carried a great, invisible weight. You may or may not be familiar with the term “Guo Ri Zi” which means something like “just get through the day”. They seemed just motivated enough to do the task in front of them and took little interest much else. Many just wanted to keep their heads down and not get in trouble. Now, obviously that sort of malaise might be found in many cities and obviously this doesn’t describe everyone I met. There are some amazing people in ShangHai and some true salt-of-the-Earth folks with a bright spot on their souls where most folks have only darkness. Know what I mean? But in general, their was a stifling atmosphere of oppression all around us. Taiwanese on the other hand will go out of their way to help or at least go above and beyond the call of duty. They are a nice, sincere people with a government that takes care of them (for the most part).
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  41.  @clarkl7027  I did and they it means “live day by day”...more or less what I said, but way of from what your friends told you.
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  42.  @clarkl7027  you’re right the phrase itself is neutral, but adding all those extra words adds syntax.
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  43.  @clarkl7027  some, not all...I said as much. You may recall me mentioning the salt-of-the-earth folks who were kind, generous, and genuine. ShangHai certainly is more international, I’ll give you that. It’s a busy and vibrant place. My comments were aimed more at the despondent malaise you see in the corners of society (if one is sensitive and aware enough to look) which I attributed to the loss of culture and constant surveillance by the CCP, but maybe I’m wrong. Taibei housing prices are indeed ridiculous, but at least you can own the property (not just the physical house), unlike China. I have always found the Taiwanese (Taibei or elsewhere in the country) to be extremely open, trusting, and generous. In ShangHai? Not so much, much to the opposite in fact, but that is probably a major metropolis thing like New York or San Francisco (Taibei, Taiwan being the exception of course).
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  44.  @yimataia1629  they are completely different, but there are enough variations from city to city or country to country that each speaker can get about 70-80% of what the other is saying.
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  45.  @yimataia1629  I’m not sure where your point of argument is. I said, based on what I’ve heard, the difference is about 20-30%...meaning Taiwanese speakers can understand FuJian dialect speakers 70-80% of the time and vice versa. That seems to agree with your opinion, does it not? Some Taiwanese have told me there is little to no similarities between the two dialects, but I’m not sure about that. As time goes on and the two countries continue to develop along two different trajectories, it will, but for now they are quite similar. I’m not sure why you cannot share links either, but that’s probably a protective precaution on the part of YouTube. Wikipedia has a misinformation problem occasionally, so for some issues , I prefer my milk straight from the cow...so to speak. Nice talking with you.
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  46.  @yimataia1629  culturally Chinese, yes, but only culturally . And yes, Western media has a bias, but not nearly in the way you think. They could be harsher. And as far as being cheated goes, I cannot say. I’ve heard from many sources that they 70-80% similar...which is what I have recently related in my post.
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  47.  @yimataia1629  yes, these are terrible things for sure.
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  48.  @yimataia1629  “cheated” may not be the right word, “mislead” perhaps, but I don’t think was cheated. And as for a topic? Dealers choice; You write and I’ll read...without repudiating or responding.
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  49.  @yimataia1629  wow. No need to be rude, my friend. I would be giving you exactly what you want; an attentive, respectful audience who would read and reflect on whatever you wrote with out simply responding just to rebuke your opinions (though I might have asked for clarifications and sources). Isn’t that what you just asked for? I have already proved that, when presented with new evidence, I am willing to change my tune to reflect to new evidence. Can you honestly say that you would do the same? Or is this just a game of flags with an “arrogant foreigner” to you? If so, your jingoism is showing. And no, I may have been mislead, but I don’t feel cheated.
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  50.  @yimataia1629  ...and try not to be so insulting and rude.
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