Comments by "SaBa" (@saba1030) on "Then & Now"
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@StoutProper The German Kaiser (as useless as he was) wrote a letter to the Austrian Kaiser, stating that there is no need to start a war, because of the recent situation.
Austria started the war by attacking Serbia, the Russians being allied to Serbia, started and therefor Germany, being allied to Austria, started, and so on ....
Historians of today have done lots of research about WWI, coming to the result, that ALL western Nations were "hot" to go into that war, because of their Nationalisms at that time.
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@BigpapamoneymanMVPtypebeat Sorry, but you're wrong about those "Germanic" tribes/ settlers. First of all: the word "Germanic" was made up by the Romans, and they called ALL tribes, living at the right side of the river Rhine "Germanic", as that was the eastern outside border of the Roman Imperium. Those tribes, living on "Germanic" ground, didn't call themself "Germanic" at all.
Btw, the Frisians, Chauken, Saxons (as you're going that far back in history), were living on the territory of todays "Lower Saxony", Frisia (with it's own language "Frisian" is part of Lower Saxony as well as part of Holland (which is part of the Netherlands). In Lower Saxony the language "Lower Saxon/ Lower German/ Nedderdüütsch" is still spoken, you can even study it at the University of Goettingen/Lower Saxony. Nedderdüütsch/ Lower German and the Frisian language are protected languages by the UNESCO.
The tribe of the Jutes were in Danmark of today, Jutland also still exists, it's a Danish Island. The Scandinavian tribes didn't "invade" to settle at Frisian, Saxon/ Chauken land, they were living at those areas of todays Skandinavia.
Btw, the Anglians are still part of "Angeln/ Anglia", in Schleswig-Holstein in the very North of todays Germany, where the language Nedderdüütsch/ Lower German is spoken as well.
The Franks spoke "Allemanic", Franken of today is part of Bavaria, the Franks "Capital" is Nuremberg.
You can see it like that: all main "Germanic tribes" from about 2000 years ago (in todays Germany) are still there and building the Federal States of Germany. The Bavarians, Suebes,
etc. The Prussians were a side line of Indo- Germanic Baltic tribes. The Teutons were living at the border areas between todays Danmark and Germany's Schleswig-Holstein.
Btw, the Frisian and Lower Saxon
languages are partly the roots of todays English language. Words like school (English)= school (Lower German), clock (English) = clock (Lower German), us (English), us (Lower German), he, she, me, you (English), he, se, mi, yi (Lower German), water (English), water (Lower German), and so on 😉
So "clock tein"/ Lower German is "ten o'clock" in English. In German: "zehn Uhr". Even the "Welsh" is an origin "Lower German" word, and means: the other ones, the ones from abroad, the strangers, and the "Welsh" land the Anglo- Saxons were calling that land "abroad" from their territories in todays England.
Greetings from Germany 😉
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@Rasarel
I am a descendant of the ancient Saxons...no mountains here, just the north sea coast line 😁
Oh, btw, English language is the fifth language, I'm speaking fluently..
Please look up about the "Heuneburg" = a celtic "castle"...
The descendants of the Germanic tribes are the todays Swedes, Norwegians, Danes, Dutch, Belgians, English, Deutsche, Austrians, Luxembourgers, etc 😎
Hol di fuchtig met groetens ut Bremen 👋 dat woer Nedderdüütsch...😂
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@StoutProper Well, that was probably a bad joke LOL. The British press doesn't even talk about Brexit and its devastating consequences, or about all the legal changes that violate human rights, only about the "party gate", which is really shameful. With an English (London) family who are almost entirely Brexiteers, I can only say that they are still "floating" in the "sunny uplands" and think that Brexit was and is a great idea.
To come back to the Germans: small example: when I was about 10 years old, we visited the NL, then the arms automatically went up, accompanied by the --- shout, 🤮 That's pretty much how it went my whole life.
It was even worse when I was visiting friends in Rome and the great-grandfather received me enthusiastically because of the "friendship" between the Duce and his "best buddy". As a result, when I traveled through Europe, I always pretended to be some "Northern European", i.e. only spoke English.
That has since subsided, but things are still the same on the Internet as on the analogue live decades ago.
In addition, our past is talked about at length in all German schools, and I don't think Germans have a problem naming their governments' mistakes.
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@swanpride So far so good. Not meant as a cheap excuse, but WWII resulted of the Versailler treaty with maximum punishment. The Weimar Republic was on a good way, but got "kicked in the knees" from all directions, various coups happened, done by either royalists, trying to get the monarchy back, or the right wing (later on the Nazis). Twice there were starving periods happening because of the sea blockade from the Brits, and the French, still p.off because they lost the "French/ German war" in 1870/1871, which they started), therefor occupied the west of Weimar Republic (Ruhrgebiet/ steel and coal region, the "powerhouse" of Weimar Republic), to force the Germans to pay more and more reparations. Inflation came up. Some politicians got shot/ assassinated.
Went on like that until the "Black Friday" came up. The USA had given credits to the Weimar Republic and pulled them completely out straight away, hyper Inflation started. In the end a bread did cost one trillion (no joke) Marks.
Hitler and his people popped up again (with "simple" solutions), nobody took them serious,
the royalists thought, they could use Hitler and his party as a "step towards re-installing the monarchy" again. The thought behind that was, once he's in, get "rid of him" after some months and then the Kaiser comes back.
History showed different and 65 million people lost their lives.
Greetings from Germany
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@nightwish1000
To use Sir Christopher Clark in this context/WWI-the sleepwalkers-how Europe went into WWI" is ....errr... bs, as he wrote about WWI AND NOT about "German identy" since 900 AD...
"Protestant" church songs were in use first in 1524/Torgau...In the Protestant regions only...
Prussia existed for about 300ish years only, and the people living in the other kingdoms/Bavaria/Hesse/Oldenburg-Lueneburg-Hannover garanteed didn't feel "Prussian" or other... you're mixing lots of "things" together... sounds...errr... crap...
Misunderstood "patriotism/nationalism" has been the roots of wars all the times and is a real pest... until these days...like Putler and his "imperial hunger "...
"Farmers" were more likely peasants, as they even didn't have their own farms, but HAD TO BE in feudal service to their masters...
This is why there exists the saying "city air makes you free" = those peasants had to escape from their feudal masters, but had to be "within a city" for minimum one year and one day, if their master didn't come up with seven whitnesses confirming, that those escaped peasants were his, then they had to go back to their feudal masters...
And again, in all those times the majority of the people were peasants with NO RIGHTS, and had a "radius" of may be max 20/30ish km in their whole lifetime, doubtfull, that they identified themselfs as "Germans/Germany", but rather as, whatever the local/regional feudal master/count/prince/King was...
Your post sounds a bit like a "conspiracy theory", I'm sorry to say....
Nobody is "talking away" German history/like about the HRI of German Nations.... only since WWI ....this is why Sir Christopher Clark had done research to "sort history" about that context...
What is rather more concerning is, that the right wing parties are growing again, doing their usual unhealthy "nationalism/patriotism" crap, which had cost 17 million peoples lifes in WWI and 65 million peoples lifes in WWII...
Vive l'Union Europeenne 🇪🇺
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@StoutProper You know what's really annoying? We Germans are very well aware of our history and the great guilt associated with it. And our task is to make sure, that something terrible like that never happens again.
But, even if this vlog had been about the weather in Germany and not about German romanticism, the WWI and WWII topic would have started again after 5-10 comments at the latest.
Btw, the current issue of arms deliveries also seems to be problematic: too much, too little, to late, Germany is taking over again, or what ever, it doesn't matter, always exactly the wrong thing anyway. The usual "German bashing".
And the associated generalizing assumptions that "all" Germans are like that. Really pathetic.
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@StoutProper An interview with Prof. Clark
"Germany was not the villain"
January 04, 2014
Professor Clark, Der Spiegel "makes suspicious that your position is reminiscent of that of national conservative German historians". Are you a German friend?
Clark: I like Germany, I speak your language, I like visiting here. But I'm not pro-German in the sense of a doctrinaire attitude.
Then why do you doubt Germany's sole responsibility for the First World War?
Clark: Oh, certainly no one, not even the most die-hard followers of the Fischer school, speaks of sole guilt.
In the 1960s, the historian Fritz Fischer triggered a debate about war guilt, the "Fischer controversy". Der Spiegel again: "In the controversy, he blamed Germany alone."
Clark: In fact, the Fischer thesis has become established as a kind of orthodoxy, but usually not in a radical form, but as a light version. For my Anglophone colleagues, this goes something like this: Russians, French or British have done stupid things – but only the Germans wanted the war and only they brought it about.
In Germany, however, the radical variant usually applies. A ZDF editor, for example, accused you of "protecting Germany too much".
Clark: Not at all, I am clearly naming Germany's shared responsibility. But it's strange: Only in Germany are people accused of being too friendly to the country. This is only considered disreputable here.
In what way?
War enthusiasm in Berlin: "There was no German conspiracy to war"
Clark: I remember a discussion in Berlin on the subject of Prussia. After that, a very nice, educated, elderly lady approached me: "Mr. Clark, you seem to like us Germans." "Well," I replied, "why not?" She: "Because we're so terrible!" I don't think anything like this will happen to you in any other country in the world.
Your book is a bestseller in Germany. Maybe because it goes against the prevailing attitude and is provocative?
Clark: That would be possible. However, it has also produced offended slating in England, motto: "We know who is to blame for the First World War! What is this Clark saying?” I myself learned at school that the great powers only showed solidarity against Germany in 1914 because it was provocative.
And it wasn't like that?
Clark: The whole thing is much more complex. Russia, for example, allied itself with France because it feared that London might join forces with Berlin. And London did not seek proximity to St. Petersburg to intimidate Germany, but to secure Persia and India against Russia.
The conclusion of your book is: In 1914, the German Reich was not the villain it is often portrayed to be.
Clark: No, Germany did contribute to the outbreak of the war and is therefore partly to blame, but nothing more. There was no German conspiracy to war. Germany wanted to be a great power, so it behaved like a great power. German politics remained completely in step with the times.
But wasn't Germany reaching for world power?
Clark: It is correct that it proclaimed a German "world policy". The result was a few colonies in the Pacific and in Africa. Overall very poor. No comparison to the established world powers. I like to ask my students: What was the difference between the British and German fleets of the time? The British was always in use, but the German hardly ever. The same applies to the British and German armies.
I hope, you saw, what he wrote about Prof. Fischer´s view about Germany.
Greetings from Bremen 🙂
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@StoutProper Well, 40 years of "EU bashing" weren´t helpfull either. More education are needed, about how the EU works and what it is all about. Ok, it was an democratic decision, but, on the other hand, over here in Germany an such important decision could have made only with specific rules, like: 75 % of people´s majority would have been needed, with a two third pro or contra, and not just an "one voice" majority on something. When you look at the figures, there were more people against it, but because of the British voting system it ended as it did.
Ok, the EU isn´t perfect, but the best for Europe ever. Not to forget, the EUs Parliament is the second largest democratic, free and independant Parliament in the world, after India.
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@karlmarxx6228 Well, my answer was to your origin post, which was "but even more sad is anti German propaganda which strangely is strongest in Germany then anywhere else (showing WWII atrocities on TV 24/7 blaming today's generation for the sins of the past) which makes German people to be like sheep!"
Does that mean, that you have problems with all the other documentaries being shown in a loop, like about the Celtics, the Romans, the English and Scottish kings/ queens? I call that education, nothing else. Ok, sometimes it might be a bit (yawn the same again again again), but there is no duty to watch it. Not to forget, that all TV programs try to save money, therefor they put the same things up in intervalls.
Btw, as you might have noticed, ALL western countries are "sorting" their stock of military equipment, because of the recent war in Ukraine, not only the Germans. If you want to have a rage, talk to Putin about that subject !!
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@karlmarxx6228 Writing BS like that, at least write those names correct !! Btw, your post is, as usual, banned from the public, because of what you're writing, therefor only I can see it.
You are aware, that we're living in a democracy?!
IF you don't like it here, I would suggest, that you're moving to one of the "cozy" countries, like Russia, Iran, Afghanistan ....
I think, you really would enjoy it there LOL
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@nightwish1000
Add on...from my own family....which I was able to trace back to 1570 😊
First mentioned in that church book 1570 "A..., born ..., is a "Koether"... What? How dare ....
Until I checked the meaning of it "Köther, Köthner, Kötter, etc, please look up about that term at Wikipedia...
Another family register from about 220 years ago shows the following ".. gave birth to 8 children, of which 3 were born dead, another 3 boys always got the same first name/fathers name... which was quite confusing .....why?
Because they all died again and again inner their first five years after birth, ...but at those days it was the tradition, that the "oldest" boy gets the fathers first name... In the end only TWO of the eight survived the age of twenty, of which one of the two is my direct ancestor....
Now tell me, when you have a daily struggle to get food for your family...and making sure, that you fulfill the duties to your masters etc... you think, that those people had the "time" to think about "I identify myself as a German"?
I doubt...
Have a nice weekend with greetings 🖐
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