Comments by "King Orange" (@kingorange7739) on "Big Think" channel.

  1. Michael 마익흘 Aronson because we can’t. The same way we can’t ask one in a coma. So...
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  2. Michael 마익흘 Aronson u can ask a fetus something but it is like u said, they cannot respond. U seem to be taking my statement too literal. What I mean when I say u can’t ask them is there is no point in doing so since they can’t understand or respond to u.
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  3. Michael 마익흘 Aronson i didn’t reply to u either when arguing with Enlightenment yet u still replied. Don’t be surprised if I do the same to u.
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  4. Enlightened I’m not saying violence on the matter is ok. I’m just getting irritated that this other guy is trying to use the fact it’s legal as some shield to his point. When on a moral level that doesn’t mean anything. Like have u read his comments?
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  5. Michael 마익흘 Aronson no. Really isn’t. If I wanted that I have plenty of gay friends that would be willing to fill the role. But I’m straight so no thank u. I don’t like the idea of a dick shoved up an ass. But u keep brainwashing ur self otherwise.
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  6. Enlightened yes they are. Seatbelt laws, drinking age, smoking age, paying for someone’s else’s medical bill, giving a kidney for an injury u cause.
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  7. Michael 마익흘 Aronson I got plenty to say about it to those that use real logic when talking about it. U that’s why Enlightenment is actually decent to argue with since he actually tries to apply real logic to the argument while the farthest u have ever been able to go is the “who gets to decide what’s moral?” Argument.
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  8. Michael 마익흘 Aronson the same reason that u can’t ask a baby after birth. They don’t know how to communicate and can’t yet.
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  9. Michael 마익흘 Aronson from a technical standpoint, a fetus can respond to a parent voice. That has been scientifically proven. In terms of actual intellectual understanding, there isn’t much a newborn can learn that a fetus the same age can’t.
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  10. Enlightened ok fair enough.
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  11. Enlightened again the problem with ur counter to my breast feed analogy is the only thing ur telling me is one is legal and other is not. In the grand scheme of this argument that means nothing. The law needs to reflect morality and consistent logic. If it can’t do either then there is no concrete foundation to carry society forward in a proper way.
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  12. Enlightened pregnancy should never be viewed as a punishment. It’s just a simple reality that follows. Pregnancy doesn’t involve consent it’s a thing that biologically happens not consenting to pregnancy is the same thing like saying you don’t consent to cancer either way it happens. The difference is is that once when you’re pregnant it’s no longer about your life within this argument it’s about the life of this baby or fetus which ever you would wanna call it. That you committed one act by doing sex which is perfectly fine but that you shouldn’t be allowed to kill another innocent human being as a second action just to undo your mistake. Also your argument about babies before birth or after birth is not intellectually honest since you just told me within previous comments that if breast-feeding was the only way to feed that newborn that you would still think that a mother should be forced to feed her newborn that way, meaning that you don’t even believe in the full body autonomy if it overrides another person‘s right to live. And at the end of the day that a mother should have responsibility over her child at least until it can be passed someone else. If you truly want this argument to go into your favor then you will need to explain why forcing her mother to breast-feed if it was the only method to feed the child is any different than having a mother carry the baby through nine month term and not allowing her to terminate the pregnancy and a fetus.
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  13. Enlightened you realize this legal law came after the passing of Roe v. Wade not to mention that yes while you can technically did Nite using something against your will to save another human life that doesn’t mean it automatically can happen without consequence. Look at a very simple scenario, I imagine you’re in your car one day on your way home from work. U get a phone call and pick it up. Within the second u weren’t looking at the road. U hit a guy crossing. Now this guy is in the hospital with a loss of a lot of blood and let’s just say he needs an organ for good measure. The doctor tells u that u giving that organ up and doing a blood transfusion is the only way to save this person’s life. So in this scenario u are left with either saving the person’s life or letting him die because u don’t want to use ur body to save anyone. Now what happens if he dies? U get arrested for involuntary manslaughter since u were the one who ran him over. U caused him to be in the position where he would need u to live. It’s the same principle with a mother. She did not mean for the fetus to come, she did not intend for it, she even used precautions, but at the end of the day she took the risk of getting pregnant. P.S it’s already proven that 46% of abortion mothers did not use contraceptions so........ Going back though u see my point? It’s a basis where since u created that being and put it in the position it’s in, u therefore would need to become responsible for it till again it can be passed to someone else.
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  14.  @EnlightenedByKnowledge  1. I never said the law doesn't mean anything. If I thought that than my only reason to follow it would solely be to avoid consequences. I said it was not relevant to the argument unless u were to put in an application that reinforces ur point that came before and without a direct connection to Roe v. Wade. 2. The motives are not the point. I don't care if ur killing an innocent human being for a self righteous purpose or to simply steal their wallet. It doesn't change what their doing. Also the irony is that Nazis and Slave owners used the same rationality that Pro abortion people use now. That it is not a full human being because of x versus y. 3. Yep I do because regardless if they do or not, they know the risk coming in. Not to even mention that 46% abortion mothers don't even use contraceptions and some of the 54% that do don't use them consistent or correctly. 4. It is not a matter of consequence but rather that she should not be allowed the separate act of killing an innocent being for happened previously when it is not at fault. But in the case of them being careless then sure. :) 5. That right to life means that it (As an innocent human being) cannot be taken without consequence. Again by all means if ur better alternative is to punish women after the abortion then that would be acceptable but not ideal since like I said before, the goal of pro life is to prevent abortion not simply punish for the act. 6. Yep 7. I do. Obviously problems and issues would follow suit like any change to things would. When slavery became outlawed, problems followed with that as well. Doesn't mean the action should not had been taken. Also those problems that would follow would be allowed to be worked out since the core issue would be set behind us once when abortion is made illegal. Because once when that safety net is gone then people will have no choice but to work out the other issues and problems. 8. Again I have made my stance clear. I'm not going to say that everything with the logic is perfect, but it does have better consistency than what the pro choice argument can say. I mean for goodness sake, pro choice members can't even agree when the cutoff point should be. 9. Saying a Spectrum of whether one truly, fully knows or not does not mean jack. Ever heard the saying better safe than sorry? It would be the same as driving in a dark night and while driving u see a figure ahead that u think might be a person. Do u A, Slow/stop the car to make sure u know for sure, or B keep driving and risk hitting what may or may not be ahead of u. If ur answer is A then then its the same principle is the arguments against the spectrum. 10. I mean for the most part, yes. Obviously an adult can vote and has certain rights inherent to adults but as far as a right to live. Yes I consider them equal. My opinion did change once. It is why I'm here. I use to live with that mentality especially while depressed on why anyone should care about a being that didn't know it was living, or could feel pain, or could think. That thought changed when I realized both the logic gaps that it had since many of those things could be applied to adults but also because I realized that without conception, there would be no consistent line to draw on a life being protected. That the line of when killing is ok would continue to expand as it already has. This is why states still allow third trimester abortions at request and how people like the governor of Virginia can propose some of the things he does. Because the consistent line without conception would be lost. I mean we are left with the options with following clear and objective biology on when a life starts and in turn when it should be protected since protection of the innocence is a basic principle of a civilized society, or we can follow a line that is made up for convenience and if we choose that line, nothing stops it from changing whenever its no longer convenient. "Oh I can kill a Fetus at 15 weeks? Why not 16 weeks, why not 20? Why not the day it is being delivered, well even though its out, the umbilical cord isn't cut and I decided I don't like the way my baby looks. Can I kill it now?" Bud I am saying this with as much honesty I can. I am trying hard to get u to understand this because there was a time that I was u in terms of arguments. And it's because I became naive, ignorant, and resentful on the world and myself. I lost care in anyone or anything. My siblings becoming parents, my cousin becoming a mother, a rape victim I know that gave birth despite the father being a terrible person gave me clarity. At the end of the day just as I won't quit on giving the Fetus the chance to live out a life of passion, joy, challenge, hardship, love, hate, determination, struggle, and at the end content and peace, After abortion is illegal, I am not going to give up on the mothers that now have those challenges to face, the challenges society would have to face. Life can be such a fragile thing when it is not protected. It can be easy to devalue. I know it because I've been through it. But trust me. Just as we were granted that chance to live out a life, something that we now believe belongs to us, it should be no different for the next generation after that. At the end of the day, the true test of character is the actions u take during hardship. And the value of someone's life should only be determined by that someone and no one else. P.S Sorry this was so long, I just wanted u to understand why I make the stands I do and that despite all the gaps in logic I find. That I do sympathize even with those that oppose. That I understand their reasoning because I once had it. I want to say at the very least that I thank you for actually providing me a good set of arguments that helped reminded me of the reasons why I have this stance. And because of that, u are simultaneously the best and worst opponent I have ever faced. And I at the very least owe u my highest respect for that.
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  15. Enlightened did I lack that sympathy? Did I not take an effort to understand the alternative argument? U have now fallen into the basis of “there is nothing u can do about it” logic if hitch falls under emotional response. Yes I can’t stop it but the law legally can. And so u confess that u would break law if it was criminalized and even risk ur own life all for an abortion? Really? Pro life members may have seen abortion doctors as murderers but even we had the decency to respect and follow the law even if we did despise it. Saying that a woman can’t handle nine months of doing it when millions of women do it everyday. I never judged u. Again u reminded me for how I was. Do u not understand the basis that I’ve known people that went through worse related to a pregnancy than u will ever know and yet still persisted to keep the baby. The basis with abortion is it’s not even a necessity as there are so many alternatives to it. Are all of them great and ideal? No. But they are very much possible. In fact they are so possible that it’s almost laughable. Abstinence, contraceptions, motherhood, and adoption. 4 choices I support.
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  16. Enlightened again ur argument has revealed that if the core of ur argument has come down wanting recreational sex without consequence then u need to re evaluate ur values. I’m sorry. Is 15 minutes of pleasure seriously worth the death of a child? I presented counters, counters u failed to address. I don’t think I have to bring up the breastfeeding argument again. Why do u not understand? That the culture created that has allowed abortions is the reason motherhood has now been shamed instead of congratulated, when people will claim overpopulation even when letting illegal immigrants into the country. It is a repeat of logic gap after logic gap. Is the pro life stance perfect? No! But we have always worked to keep the line consistent that all innocent human beings have intrinsic value. That life at conception is the only line that can realistically be drawn without logical gaps. Again if ur using abortion as an excuse for unrestricted sex then at least be honest about and don’t disguise it as some “defending people from oppressors” or “preventing an unfair life” because at the end of the day u don’t care about that. U can tell me I’m wrong and if u back it I’ll accept it but with ur last comment, u have admitted with wanting to have recreational sex whenever u like with no consequence. Basically also admitting u wouldn’t even try contraceptions. Also claiming that I am a man doesn’t mean shit. Ironically more men are pro choice and more women are pro life. Many of those woman composed of older generations that already lived through those struggles. Don’t believe me? Look up pro choice vs pro life statistics in the US during 2018. It will say a lot about the misconceptions abortion arguments will bring up.
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  17. Enlightened also my aunt went through the crap u described and she still ended up pro life. My aunt was threatened to be kicked out, she was made fun of people that knew, the pregnancy had to be kept secret from most people yet she still made it through and that was at a time where pregnancy was judged far worse then than now. Choice comes before pregnancy, it comes with taking responsibility for ur actions. It’s only fair too considering u don’t give men the same bail out that u get. Because guess what if a woman decides to keep her baby, the man has no way out. If ur truly pro choice then be so for men as well. Because telling me that abortion is ok but a man dodging child support isn’t is hypocrisy at its finest. Luckily for me I believe in prohibition of abortion and enforcing child support. Also fun fact women would not be the only ones held accountable for pregnancy just saying.
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  18. Enlightened also no it hasn’t. Up until a couple centuries ago, conventional access to abortion was quite literally near impossible. And that’s not a point. Whether or not the law completely succeeds in stopping it isn’t the point. The point is that it will further decrease the action as generations go by due to the culture no longer accepting it. It’s the same basis as slave trade nowadays. Their business does poor in a lot of areas not only because of the legal difficulties but also because the US culture in a generalized sense no longer accepts it. Same goes with genocide. Any atrocity being abolished will always have push back at first but it always fades over time. It’s inevitable.
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  19. Enlightened That doesn’t work to the extent of murdering the child. Also you realize the child after birth still technically speaking needs to use the mothers body as well it’s just in a different way. Also the process of abortions is literally designed to murder the baby. I could maybe understand it if they tried to keep the fetus alive after it was removed but they don’t and they literally are held bent on killing because it is inconvenient to the mother. That is murder
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  20. Enlightened and no offense when you do sex you do sort of consent to the risk of pregnancy. Saying otherwise would be like comparing saying oh a drunk driver doesn’t consent to get into an accident. It’s a direct causality not two separate choices.
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  21. Except it isn’t
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  22. Shatugi ok here is the problem with that statement. A catapiller in terms of species is the same as a butterfly. It’s just a different stage of development. So in a sense it is. As far as species. Same goes for a fetus which is a human being. It’s not a baby or adult yet, because those terms are stages of development. But it does match. It is a member of the homosapian species and has its own genetic code and dna strand. U know the building blocks of what makes up all life. Also if u want to argue that it isn’t a human being. Then let me ask u, what constitutes a human being?
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  23. Michael 마익흘 Aronson it’s disproving what so many pro choice people think. Also by admitting it’s a separate being it’s pretty saying ur ok with killing a baby.
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  24. Michael 마익흘 Aronson nah. It’s like I said before I seek to spare others of ur bs arguments.
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  25. Michael 마익흘 Aronson also ur as ignorant as ever.
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  26. Michael 마익흘 Aronson what the hell are u saying u fool? Oh yeah because it’s legal I should accept it? Also I bet many said the same thing about slavery and the holocaust u know. “It’s legal and there’s nothing you can do about it.” Except u ignore that things change. U ignore that It can become illegal again. For the sake of comedy, perhaps I’ll say the same thing to u if the day does come where it is made illegal. Also I like spreading my comments out. Grow up and deal with it. It’s not desperate to use a separate comment for a different thought or point I think of. Again how have I lost? Ur yet to disprove anything. Also considering u don’t even have consistent morals, ur yet to even stand any ground as why abortion should be viewed as right or even a necessary evil. Instead ur painfully limited argument is, “it’s legal so it’s fine and there’s nothing u can do about it.” Again I bet people use to say the same thing about US slavery or the holocaust in Germany. Honestly though if ur that narrow minded, u would fit in those time periods very well. The Nazis would love ur way of thinking.
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  27. Enlightened again I’m not discussing this from a legal position. I’m discussing from a moral one. Also again by that logic, a mother should not be forced to breast feed her baby yet that is not the case. If a mother starved her baby to death over not breast feeding then she would be arrested for at least child neglect. So to an extent there are exception out looks for that law and the most simple one is when u are responsible for that human being or caused them to be in a position where they become dependent on u. If u ran over a guy and the doctor asked u for some of ur blood to save the man’s life and u said no which results in the man dying. Do u expect that to not be used against u in court that u killed someone because of the position u put them in and then refused to use ur body to help them? Abortion is the same principle.
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  28. Michael 마익흘 Aronson how about no! Also at least my morals are consistent unlike urs. Again it should never require explaining why killing innocent human beings is wrong. This is a very simple concept. Also what the hell do u mean, “my people stoned gays to death.” What the hell are u talking about?
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  29. Michael 마익흘 Aronson u don’t even have any consistent morals at all or even consistent logic. U r yet to give an actual case as to why abortion should be legal without falling into inconsistent logic. But feel free to to give me an actual convincing argument.
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  30. Michael 마익흘 Aronson no. One does not have be possibly guilty to be innocent. So no. That logic makes no sense.
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  31. Michael 마익흘 Aronson u don’t have to distinguish them from “guilty babies” when there is no such thing mind u. So again what’s ur point?
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  32. Michael 마익흘 Aronson define a guilt baby? What crime have they committed?
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  33. Michael 마익흘 Aronson again ur missing that there is no such thing as a guilty baby so what argument are u even doing? R u joking or being dumb?
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  34. Michael 마익흘 Aronson I claimed babies are innocent. None are guilty
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  35. Michael 마익흘 Aronson if a human being is innocent they shouldn’t be killed
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  36. Michael 마익흘 Aronson they don’t have to be innocent “of” anything. Adj definition: 1. not guilty of a crime or offense. 2. not responsible for or directly involved in an event yet suffering its consequences. Noun definition: 1. a pure, guileless, or naive person. 2. a person involved by chance in a situation, especially a victim of crime or war. A fetus aligns with 2 out of the four definitions and honestly if you were to take personhood out of the equation since it’s only a legal term and varies from country to country and through time, a fetus would align with all 4 definitions technically.
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  37. Michael 마익흘 Aronson To answer your question if someone is guilty, it’s not OK for us to do it however if that person is in fact guilty of a severe crime then the law can use the death penalty as a protection of society as a whole. As well as to to remove his life when more often than not he did the same to an innocent person. This is part of the social contract where when you in infringe on the lives of others, you by extension forfeit most of your own rights.
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  38. Michael 마익흘 Aronson I said when it comes as an excuse to murdering innocent human beings and I said for the sake of the simple argument. Never said the law didn’t matter I said that it wasn’t relevant to the discussion. Don’t fucking twist my words you dumb ass. Secondly give me an actual fucking argument instead of just resorting to blind insults. Seriously man I can’t even see any pro-choice people wanting you around them in their movements because u would honestly turn people away from the pro choice cause if these conversations are any indication.
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  39. Michael 마익흘 Aronson I already answered this question. Are you ignorant?
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  40. Michael 마익흘 Aronson no I really didn’t otherwise u wouldn’t be getting a response.
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  41. Michael 마익흘 Aronson Michael 마익흘 Aronson wtf are u talking about? So because I can’t physically stop something on my own then it’s not worth fighting? Damn u better give up on fighting Trump and his policies for Mexico because u ain’t stopping that either by ur very own logic.
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  42. Michael 마익흘 Aronson how would u take the money back legally? Also I stated that because it would never happen. Also a million dollars would be good to actually end abortion laws and the rest can be used to actually help born children. Something that both of us could focus on if u weren’t so loving about killing unborn babies.
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  43. Michael 마익흘 Aronson so ur saying that u would kill me? 😂
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  44. Michael 마익흘 Aronson personhood is a legal term and not a scientific one. Also I do not have to be a pregnant woman to know what has been evident through record and even my own family.
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  45. Michael 마익흘 Aronson u realize that there have already been studies of a fetus responding to parents voice through body movements.
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  46. Michael 마익흘 Aronson how am I a child for answering a question? If I misinterpreted what u said, then fine. But just elaborate what ur trying to say.
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  47. Michael 마익흘 Aronson like just tell me what I am misinterpreting. U call me a child for making a mistake? Jeez. I am amazed how anyone tolerates u considering how short tempered u seem to be.
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  48. Michael 마익흘 Aronson I’m actually 19 so legally I’m an adult. But fun guess, also I can’t because I’m not there. What’s ur point?
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  49. Michael 마익흘 Aronson also r u done? U seriously are acting like a child. Discuss the topic at hand! Seriously, I question if u just like trolling people at this point. U still haven’t even answered my question from the other thread that I asked 7 times through the course of 3 days. Unless ur going to discuss the topic at hand and not just see how much to make fun of me, then ur wasting my time and energy that I could easily use on pro choice people with actual decency.
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  50. Michael 마익흘 Aronson again explain how I am having one. I literally showed definition the word and asked where that matched me. Yet again u failed to answer it. U know for someone who has a lot to say, u sure as heck like the decency to back ur claims or answer actual intellectual questions about the subject at hand. Speaking of, Have u finally conducted an answer to the question I have repeatedly asked in the other thread? Or is it too hard for u to answer?
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