Comments by "King Orange" (@kingorange7739) on "Big Think" channel.

  1. Michael 마익흘 Aronson do you realize if you read my previous comments that would be easy for you to catch on and what I’m trying to say.
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  2. Michael 마익흘 Aronson This wasn’t directed at you dumb fuck. You know perhaps if you actually learned to actually use an actual reason and logic instead of your blind insults then maybe you could actually change a mind or two. But instead you’re stupid hatred has driven you to do nothing more but blind insults that hold no sense of merit. seriously did a pro life member do something to you?
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  3. Michael 마익흘 Aronson why can’t you just read the last comment I wrote that’s usually a response and continuation of that same comment.
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  4. Michael 마익흘 Aronson how are they bad arguments? You are yet to the debunk the answer to it
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  5. Enlightened what are you talking about? I’m not talking about what previous laws have stated. Again if a concept of full body autonomy existed then it would be illegal to make a mother breast-feed her child if it meant keeping that child alive. Yet as we both know. If a mother did not breast-feed her child when it was the only way to feed said child she would be arrested for at the very least child neglect and at worst murder.
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  6. Enlightened again you answered your own question you can’t literally hold someone down and force them to do something. But as you said yourself it’s not an action that should go unpunished. I’m saying though that a mother that refuses to provide nourishment for her newborn is the exact same argument as one that six in abortion it is literally only a separation of time in stage of development as well as location of said fetus/ baby.
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  7. Enlightened because the principle of self prioritization has never in Newark should never be a crime if it comes between one life or another if you have to let another person die in order for yourself to live that is not a crime. But when that life-threatening incident is not the case which in 99% of the time it isn’t, then some sort of consequence should come to mothers that attempt to acquire abortions
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  8. Michael 마익흘 Aronson I said that Enlightment’s arguments were inconsistent not my own. U fool. Goes to show u how much u really care about people. U just love to call others waste of life?
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  9. Michael 마익흘 Aronson how is my argument inconsistent? Also if u payed attention to my comment I asked if the autonomy would still apply even if breast feeding was her only way. Yeah it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that there are more methods to feeding a baby nowadays. 😂
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  10. Enlightened also why would birth be eight determination for that living being? Is it for viability? Is it for size? Is it for stage of development? Or and I most certainly hope it isn’t this, is it for location?
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  11. Enlightened like I want you to be aware dude that I fully understand the arguments are trying to make because they were arguments are used to make when I was younger. And I should’ve told you this at the beginning that I used to be pro-choice at least to an extent. But my mind got changed to realizing the logical gaps that I am trying to explain to you now. So for what it’s worth I want you to know that I do respect you and I actually really appreciate this discussion we are having. So just note that anything I say through this is not an attack on you personally. As you have given me a probably one of the best pro-choice pro life discussions that I’ve had in a long time.
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  12. Michael 마익흘 Aronson I said enlightened’s arguments were inconsistent. Also I’ll ask again if ur physically incapable of using one comment without fuck or is ur vocab that limited?
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  13. Enlightened to say that is an oversimplification of my point. I have no intent of judging sexual behavior. I couldn’t care less on it. But again if one had sex without the intent of having a child then u could say that they simply find the existence of the baby or fetus to be a mistake. That is the core of the point. That I don’t believe a fetus or baby should be punished by being denied it’s chance to live out a life just because they weren’t intended to exist. That to me is unacceptable. Now if u want my consistency for my argument, a mother legally has a duty to care for her child and ensure that he or say is alive and nurtured until that can be passed to someone else. This is why a mother can’t just refuse to feed her child. Now the question of body autonomy while valid falls into the category of two problems. First is that body autonomy never expands to the right to deliberately harm another innocent human being. This is why u can’t just punch a stranger out of nowhere. The second issue is full body autonomy has never existed. There has always been compromises for body autonomy for the sake of societal protection and people. Drinking limits, statutory rape, seatbelt laws, drug limits, u get what I’m saying. My position has not been increased for a simple factor and a simple stance that 1. Parents have a moral responsibility and legal duty to their children until it can be passed to another And 2. That rights to one’s own body autonomy should never extend to the right to deliberate harm others, innocence no less. Within that context, a fetus would have equal rights.
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  14. Enlightened ok but that falls yet again into another contradiction. That being that u agreed with me that a mother should still be made to breast feed her child if no other options existed. So that is a contradiction. Now also look at the statement of ur argument that u would imply that one should have the right to kill another because they are the only one that can care for it?
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  15. Enlightened I base the innocent versus guilty in terms of human beings. That is the core of the argument. Also I don’t recall using a fetus as food supply so it’s also a false equivalence. Again the standard is protecting our own first but the irony of ur statement is currently some animals have more legal protections than a fetus done. Just saying.
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  16. Enlightened To answer your final question there is a very simple groundwork on whether or not if it is would want to live and that simply one once when it develops a consciousness of basically resists being killed and then on top of that considering that when it’s born it has a desire and instinct to live and that even people that are depressed and such don’t commit suicide then they are by extension choosing to live. This is the core of my point that it should never be up to another person on whether or not this living being that in 99% of scenarios is going to grow up healthy, and at least have the chance to live a decent life. Why should it be up to a mother to determine if that baby should live or not? I would honestly consider that closer to narcissistic more than ur claim on me as u r literally having an innocent human beings life determined by a mother that in most instances has the choice to give the baby a chance to live and in most instances is looking at with their own interests in mind and not the baby. At the end of the day the determination of if a baby wants to live or not should be up to no else than the baby itself. Finally I am pretty much on a stance on no abortion being ok. In the case of a mother being endangered I have already stated that emergency procedures can be taken to save a mother’s life even if it kills the fetus in the process but that is not the same as abortion where it deliberately terminated the fetus. I think in the instances where a fetus needs to be removed to save the mother’s life, than that’s fine but afterwards measures should be taken to try to keep the fetus alive.
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  17. Enlightened Also the Constitution does not explicitly state a right to abortion case back when it was written the very concept of abortion was seen as a possible which is why no source explicitly states against it but no source explicitly states for it either. Also like I said trying to fall back on legal proceedings doesn’t work for me in most cases because by falling back to that it basically creates the notion that just because it’s a legal means that it’s OK which I’ve already highlighted before plenty of things were legal that were morally reprehensible. So it’s also a little misguided to try that.
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  18. Enlightened not really. Both slavery and the holocaust were carried out based on the same principle. That principle being a denial/ devalue of human beings. It was an argument that both slavery and the holocaust were using and is continuing now with a fetus. Again trying to say that the key difference of them being born or not is going right back to the beginning of this argument which again brings up the question of why in individual born should have rights but unborn shouldn’t. What is the determination of that? Is it stage of development, is it size, is it viability, or is it location? Which one of these should determine a fetus should not have the same rights an already born baby would have?
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  19. Enlightened i’ve already answered this question. First off I’ve already stated before that full body autonomy does not exist and it’s as you said yourself within this very comparison you attempt to counter what you’re basically admitting is yes they could have the option to say no but they would still face legal precautions afterwards so explain to me why it shouldn’t be any different in the case of an abortion. What you were indirectly advocating is basically they mother should admit guilt of their crime beforehand that they should be allowed to do it but they would face immediate legal charges afterwards. Which that would come closer to the line of punishing woman than what I propose which is to simply make the procedure illegal Which would focus the punishment on the doctors in the people that profit off of the human being’s death than the mother. U have pretty much admitted the gaps within ur logic.
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  20. Enlightened then why should the same not apply for one after birth? Do you wanna play the bass is that a mother should not be morally or societally obligated to care for that child even though if that applied after birth we would not be having negligence laws. So which is it does she have an obligation or does she not? And if I may go back you even admit within my breast-feed scenario that the mother would still be legally and morally obligated to feed that child to breast-feeding if she had no other option which means by your own admission you don’t even believe full body autonomy for the woman. And again there is no obligation with this. Pregnancy is not a separate action it is a byproduct of an action that was already committed meaning that society can and should deny that second action of an abortion from being taken. There’s nothing that the woman is being robbed of as it was a position they put themselves in. Again if u want to use the argument that a woman owes nothing to her child that she created then I could use the same argument that society owes nothing to her. So at the end of the day u would back us into a paradox if u went this route. Again I will ask it one last time, what should constitute a human being to be protected by law and why?
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  21. Enlightened how many times must a state this that person hood is a legal term and as such is not relevant within this argument. Personhood can be denied to literally anyone technically speaking. The Nazis deny Jews personhood, colonial empires denied slaves personhood. So what’s your point? That’s not logical or relevant. Also now you wanna go into the future based argument so let’s get into to that. Person is in a coma, Doctor says that it’s pretty much a guarantee that they will wake up in nine months. Until that point they are not viable they have , no brain activity outside of basic functions that keep them alive, and they aren’t conscious so they technically wouldn’t care what happens to them. Should the family then have the right to say ”u know I never really liked my son, he’s not worth the money, pull the plug and kill him.” Should that be a right? Also it’s intellectually dishonest to call a fetus and unwelcome and invader when it’s her body that ends up conceiving it and creating it and harboring it. Also ur source of 1978 court case is based on a judge’s interpretation which means yet again it can be overturned. Also by trying to use these sources to back your claim the only thing you’re saying to me is that a woman should have a right to an abortion but I’m mediately be punished afterwards. Which is far from the core of the pro life stance which is meant to prevent that death and not simply punish it immediately after.
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  22. Enlightened also as a final statement yes she has a right to determine how many children she wants but here’s the thing that decision is made before you conceive the child. It should never be made after the fact. Again whether people want to admit it or not in most cases it is come down to people want abortion to be legal because they want to freely have sex without the risk or the responsibility that goes with it. Don’t believe me? Then look up how many mothers end up having more than one abortion in their lifetime.
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  23. Enlightened are you kidding me? I said how I felt once when I saw my own clarity that I felt that I became naïve through this that I became ignorant through this. It was the things I started to feel once when I was at the end of my pro-choice support. I was working to make why is that it’s possible that you would run into that. We both repeated arguments so call me out on that doesn’t work it’s an action we both talk and the only arguments I repeated with the ones that yet again, have the same logical flaws. I don’t ignore the consequences of it I just don’t think that alone is an excuse to keep add a core immoral act legal. And how my having a authoritarian mindset on reproductive rights exactly? It’s an absolute really odd and kind of dumb way of thinking that I’m automatically authoritarian on reproductive rights because I’m against abortion. How did I waste your time? I offered you a civil discussion on this, you chose to take it. I went out of my way not to insult you. I went out of my way to be sympathetic to even the opposing arguments, why at the end of the day I do have to call things out when I see them. So explain to me why that’s wrong.
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  24.  @MichaelAronson  LOL Bro, I need to like seriously know. Did pro life members do something personal against u or are u just desperate to insult literally anyone who disagrees with u? Like seriously, u are hurting ur cause more than helping it. Also again, r u physically incapable of using one commnet without the word fuck or is ur vocab that limited? I mean seriously, u realize if u were more calm and slightly more compassionate with ur arguments then maybe u could actually change some minds. But nah, because of the way u say things man, it just makes pro life members stay more convicted to their beliefs and make people on the fence choose pro life because of u poorly representing the pro choice movement. Like damn even within my time as pro choice, people weren't this bloody insulting. Go figure. Glad I changed sides when I did.
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  25.  @EnlightenedByKnowledge  Also trying to say that valuing a Fetus is subjective is pointless. Technically, value of any living being at all is technically subjective. Trying to say that nature doesn't value us is also dumb because I never said it did. Its like I said at the beginning that to have a consistent logic, either all human beings are intrinsically valuable or none are. Plus using the oppressed argument doesn't work either. U think the government can't tell people to make some sacrifices? What do u think the draft system is. Is that not a form of oppression when up until recently, only men would be drafted to fight in wars the government told them to? We may not like these things, but for the sake of protecting society and the human beings in it, its actions that have to be taken. The good part for a pregnant woman is there is no separate action for her to take. That once when she is pregnant, naturally speaking it is done, and she only has to keep living for 9 months. Also trying to compare a embryo to a sperm or egg separately and saying there is no major difference is biologically false. Also if ur going to go the route of saying that people should be able to choose not to have a child then stop being mad when fathers leave and suing them for child support. If u truly believe in choice, give it to both the mother and father. But thats not what pro choice is about because again its not actually about choice, its about dodging responsibility.
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  26. Michael 마익흘 Aronson yes I do care about the born. Proof to back ur claim otherwise? Also let enlighten respond to his own replies. Ur the first to complain when I respond to comments by u not directed but ur doing the same here. It’s hypocritical.
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  27. Michael 마익흘 Aronson the checkups are needed and help. But their not 100% essential. They just make the process safer. See those are things that would actually be choices lol.
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  28. Michael 마익흘 Aronson also yet again. R u capable of using one comment without the word fuck? Is ur vocab that limited? Again let enlighten respond to me. I didn’t ask for u to respond on what I said to him. U got plenty of other comments by me directed toward u that u can respond to first.
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  29. Michael 마익흘 Aronson like great job defending your argument I’m certain that if I showed this to any average person regardless if they were pro life or pro-choice they would find you pretty screwed up in the head. For pro life members it would only help us stay true to our conviction and for pro-choice people they would have to debunk you in order to keep their position so good job with that.
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  30. Enlightened nothing?
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  31.  @EnlightenedByKnowledge  I believe that in the case of doctors that they should immediately face a long period in prison if not the death penalty. the cases of woman is slightly more complicated. I personally believe that the mode of motive would have to be considered in. So say if the mother was raped and resorted to an abortion. It could be argued that the physical and psychological trauma didn't allow her to think completely clear and as such would probably only be sentenced to a mandatory therapist for psychological recovery to ensure the instance doesn't happen again. I would believe that in cases of desperation based on income an option of either years in prison or sterilization could be suitable as well as getting counselling. But in the cases where there has been no trauma or income factors then it would probably need to be years in prison and or again sterilization. Worst case would be third trimester abortions which without any of the factors I discussed would be able to have the death penalty as punishment. The primary goal would be to ensure that the action is discouraged by other woman and to work to ensure that woman that already did it does not get the chance to repeat the same action through again either physiological recovery or sterilizing them to make sure they can't get pregnant again.
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  32.  @EnlightenedByKnowledge  I think the punishments need to be enough to discourage the action further but not so bad that it completely ruins one's life. Because again, the goal is to convince them that their actions were wrong to prevent them from doing it again and to create a culture that would help stop others from doing it. But I think the factors that would otherwise be used as excuses or justifications for abortions should instead be used as factors on what extent the punishment should be.
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  33. Enlightened I do apologize for my wording. I should of paid more attention to the way I was trying to convey my point.
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  34. Enlightened nothing?
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  35.  @MichaelAronson  harassing? How am I harassing him?
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  36.  @MichaelAronson  If it matched the definition, yes. But that is on him to ask, not u.
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  37. Michael 마익흘 Aronson u said the same statement twice. And no not my personal definition, the technical definition. Like if I just have a standard conversation with someone and then they come out of the blue saying I’m harassing them then that’s laughable. Though in cases where I don’t let them leave or use intimidation on them the. Yes I would stop. Enlighten can certainly let me know if he feels that way.
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  38. Michael 마익흘 Aronson that’s not how that works. Just saying it’s harassment doesn’t automatically make it harassment. There is a definition to the word u know. Like I said if enlightened wants to stop the discussion, he can ask me to do so. But that’s on him to ask.
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  39.  @MichaelAronson  Doesn't make it any less true.
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  40.  @MichaelAronson  Really? How so? Define harassment then. Look up the definition. Harassment: aggressive pressure or intimidation. I rest my case.
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  41. Michael 마익흘 Aronson I never said I was, but neither is the person claiming to be harassed without it aligning with the definition of the word. Look up the definition u fool.
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  42. Enlightened p.s bonus. Passing a kidney stone is more painful than pregnancy and giving birth. The average woman who went through both will say that and men go through that more often than women. So...........?
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  43. Michael 마익흘 Aronson Stop responding to comments that aren’t meant for u. U complain whenever I do it yet here u t doing the same thing u hypocrite. By ur logic the lives of anyone is worthless. Seriously, there is something to follow because believe when I say that there are some that would want to punish the doctors ourselves but we know better. And we also know that it won’t get us anywhere to do so.
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  44. Michael 마익흘 Aronson again I can’t stop them but the law can. Which is what I work to change. To change where the law will stop them. It’s like I told him before. 15 minutes of pleasure is not worth the life of a human being’s life. Again telling me what the system currently is is worthless and meaningless. Yeah no shit. I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t know that. And I’ll respond to u the same way I did to him. If u want ur logic to be consistent. Don’t get pissed off when men leave and avoid child support. Because it’s the same idea just on the opposite sex. So if u are truly pro choice, then u better advocate for men to have that choice as well. Otherwise ur just going to fall into the route of being inconsistent and sexist. Luckily for me I don’t have to worry about that considering I’m fighting to have the law ensure that both parents take responsibility.
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  45. Enlightened which also prevents the crime. Once when the mindset catches up with the lack of a social safety net that is abortion. It will highlight other options. Yes some will still do it. And yes it will be unsafe. That’s the point. If it’s unsafe it discourages the action from being taken and highlights the other options presented. Again the punishment creates a fear that prevents the crime from being committed. Even though I disagree with major punishment for women seeking abortions. Even the thought of being sent to a mental hospital if the procedure occurred and they were caught would be enough to prevent the action over time. Yeah it may be hard for the first generation to change. But as the children and the children’s children go by. The desire for abortion especially in a culture that rejects it will actively go down. It’s worked for almost everything else. It worked when slavery was outlawed, it worked when drinking age occurred for the most part, it worked when segregation was outlawed. It will work here. Maybe not immediately. But the short term struggle is inevitable and the thought process will go on the amount of lives saved in the long run. Over 800,000 abortions occur per year in the US. Even if u were to tell me that half still did unsafe abortions. It’s still 400,000 babies being saved.
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  46. Enlightened not even close. Again immediate change may or may not occur. The application of examples u have used that did not work were done in nations that provided littler in the wake of alternatives. Tell me by ur logic, should murder be legal just because people will still murder? No? Then explain how it’s different here.
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  47. Michael 마익흘 Aronson OMG how many fucking times must I say the same statement, let enlighten answer my comments directed to him instead of trying to answer them for him! I have plenty of comments for u in this section left unanswered. So go and answer them instead of fucking answering responses that aren’t even directed at u!
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  48. Michael 마익흘 Aronson no the point is, anything illegal is meant to be unsafe when u try to do it anyway. Literally almost every other crime it applies the same way. Stealing ain’t safe, murder ain’t safe, rape ain’t safe. U get caught, ur screwed. Self defense laws and second amendment rights specifically exist to make those crimes dangerous. It ain’t punishing women for shit. If they go into an illegal abortion knowing what might happen to them, they are doing it to themselves. That’s like saying that the government is punishing someone when they die from drunk driving.
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  49. Michael 마익흘 Aronson “this isn’t coherent English u dumb fuck” ain’t an argument u buffoon!
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  50. Enlightened “saw the light?” 😂 r u joking? First off I explained this before and I’ll explain it again. There is not an overpopulation issue. Secondly, anything not strained by children would instead be strained by illegals coming here. So don’t even give me that logic. Also r u not aware that fair amount of women that get abortions fall under depression afterward? So also invalid. And r u seriously going to congratulate someone for getting an abortion. How sick r u? So a human being is worth that little to u? 15 minutes of sex is worth killing a human being to u? Dang I hope to never meet ur kids if u have any because that would be a rude awakening for them. Ur logic holds no consistent merit. U literally admit in ur last comment ur motive for supporting abortion. Stop pretending you care about any factors outside of u want no responsibility for ur sexual actions and you’ll be willing to kill a baby to escape that responsibility. Just admit that and this argument can finally be over. Ok? I can’t force u to value things. But I can call out inconsistent logic and masks for ulterior motives. So please be honest with me and ur self. U simply want abortion legal so u can have all the sex u want. Just admit that and we can be done.
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