Comments by "Sandy Tatham" (@sandytatham3592) on "Middle East Eye"
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@ferhanakhan5706 : This is the World Bank definition: "Indigenous Peoples are distinct social and cultural groups that share collective ancestral ties to the lands and natural resources where they live, occupy or from which they have been displaced." You can believe whatever you want, but DNA is not a criteria for establishing who is indigenous to a specific land. The Jewish state of Israel is a legitimate sovereign state. The indigenous Jews were granted the right to reconstitute their ancestral homeland in return for their support in the war effort which was successful in DEFEATING the Ottoman Caliphate in 1918. Israel has the right to give citizenship to any person whom they believe is Jewish, based on that person's claim to be part of the unique cultural group which calls itself the Jewish people. One quarter of Israeli citizens are not Jews. They are Arabs, Druze, Circassians, Samaritans, Muslims, Christians, Baha'i, and all of them enjoy "equal rights" and "freedom of religion".
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@ferhanakhan5706 : You said quite a few things and I'm happy to respond as follows:
= Israel is the only country in the Middle East where Christians are safe and secure and their numbers are growing.
= Can you give me a couple of the 67 laws which you say apply to 'Palestinian' Israelis? I only know of one law that discriminates on the basis of race, which is that Israeli Arabs do not have to do the compulsory military service. But it's nice to see that the trend is for more and more of them to volunteer to do so.
= I am aware that there are housing estates which have committees that select who can join their estate by purchasing a home. This happens all around the world. It's not a civil government law but more of a community regulation so that residents can be sure that their neighbours have similar values. I don't like it, but you will see it all over the world. It is a form of discrimination "in practice" but not in law.
= I didn't know that there are roads that 'Palestinian' Israelis can't walk on, unless you are referring to Hebron which seems to have some serious security issues with Arabs from the PA and there are strict procedures in place. Nothing happens without a good reason. But I do know that Jews are forbidden to enter cities in the Palestinian Territories and Gaza, whereas Arabs from the PA and Gaza had permits to work in Israel before the massacre of October 7.
= Indigenous rights are recognised the world over these days. You have a name which suggests you might be a Muslim and I understand you would be against indigenous rights because it's not an Islamic value. Islamic armies invaded and conquered much of the known world and imposed Islamic values and Arabic culture upon the conquered people, and their indigenous rights were taken away. But this is slowly being overturned. I wouldn't be surprised to see more indigenous groups like the Kurds, Assyrians, Nubians, Copts, Siwans, Berbers, etc. demanding that their indigenous culture be more widely recognised in future.
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@litekuk5053 : Are the Romans the #indigenous people of Britain? Can they claim, like the Jewish people can, to have had a "continuous connection" to that land for over 3500 years? Do the Romans, like the Jewish people, also have a unique language, kings, coins, cultural practices, artefacts and ancestral burial places all relating to that particular land? Was there a World War that gave them an opportunity to be granted the right as the #indigenous people to return to that land? Many things had to line up before Israel was fortunate to be created. I'd also like to point out that after the DEFEAT of the Ottoman Empire, the Arabs were granted self-determination in 99% of the carved-up land (today's Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Jordan). The Jews want less than 1% and they share it with one-fifth Arabs who have equal rights under the law with Jews. That seems pretty fair to me, but I guess you might want no Jews at all in the Middle East?
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@rose-maries7131 : I'm not "avoiding the question". I don't care about it. I don't even know for sure that you can't get a genetic test done in Israel like anywhere else in the world, because in Tel Aviv there is a DNA Worldwide clinic and their website says you can get results within 3-5 days. I can't see any requirement to "go to court to get approval". Besides that, all governments have the right to make their own laws regarding citizenship, DNA testing, genetic screening, etc. and I'm not too bothered by anything in this respect.
As for Jews and Christians "living mainly in harmony" with Muslims under the 500 year Ottoman Empire, you must know that the Jews and Christians lived as "dhimmis". They had fewer rights under the law than Muslims. They were totally dependent on Muslims for their security, and they were always treated as second or third-class status. The Qur'an states that dhimmis are to be "humbled, brought low, subjugated". When the Islamic forces invaded and conquered the Middle East in the 7th century, they followed Sharia law and accorded Jews this subjugated status. So there was only 'harmony' if the Jews behaved, ie. they accepted their low status and didn't resist.
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@rose-maries7131 : I'm not "avoiding the question". I don't care about it, and I already made that clear. I don't even know for sure that you can't get a genetic test done in Israel like anywhere else in the world, because in Tel Aviv there is a DNA Worldwide clinic and their website says you can get results within 3-5 days. I can't see any requirement to "go to court to get approval"🙄. Besides that, all governments have the right to make their own laws regarding citizenship, DNA testing, genetic screening, etc. and I'm not bothered by anything in this respect.
As for Jews and Christians "living mainly in harmony" with Muslims, under the 500 year Ottoman Empire rule Jews and Christians lived as "dhimmis" and had fewer rights under the law than Muslims. They were totally dependent on Muslims for their security, and they were always accorded second or third-class status. As Qur'an 9:29 states, dhimmis are to be "humbled, brought low, subjugated". When the Islamic forces invaded and conquered the Middle East in the 7th century, they followed Sharia and accorded Jews and Christians this subjugated status. So there was only 'harmony' if the Jews behaved, ie. if they accepted their lower status and didn't resist. Now the Jews are back in control in their ancestral homeland and they don't have to abide by any of that nonsense. It's great.
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@heatherlinnette189 : I believe this so-called 'Palestinian' group of Arabs have #forfeited any right to a state. I don't even think they ever had grounds for a state of their own! In 1924 the British Mandate for Palestine, which was to be the reconstituted home of the Jewish people, was divided and 75% given to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (an Arab tribe from the Hijaz, today's Saudi Arabia). Jordan was for the Arabs. Jews were not given equal rights in Jordan, and most had to leave.
That left the land "from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea" for the Jewish people. Then the British and the UN reneged on their promise to the Jewish people and once again carved up the land for Jews (who accepted) and the belligerent Arabs (who refused to accept the land they were offered). This group of Arabs has since been made many offers and they have refused all of them. They've also refused to accept Israel as a state, and they won't negotiate peace. The Arabs who were #displaced by the 1948 war, which began when the seven neighbouring Arab states attacked the new state of Israel and lost, should by now have been absorbed into those Arab countries. But the Arab League forbade giving them citizenship and they are being USED as pawns or weapons against the Jews.
The HUMANE thing to do would be to give them a #choice to be resettled somewhere else in the world, preferably with their own people, ie. in Egypt, Jordan or Saudi Arabia because most of them have families there as they only migrated to Palestine after 1920, when the British and Jews created economic opportunities for these Arabs. Look at their last names and you can see where their families are from.
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@wordgun1903 : Wherever there is "Muslim rule", Jews and Christians are second/third-class citizens, ie. 'dhimmis'. They are not equal to Muslims under the law, and they are humbled, humiliated, brought low. That's not "coexisting peacefully"!!! That's oppression. Today the #indigenous Jewish people are back in control in their own homeland. Land that was ruled for centuries by an Islamic Caliphate. You have to deal with that. The Jewish people are back to stay. Christians are leaving all Muslim-majority lands. In 1950, Bethlehem was 86% Christian. After the Palestinian Authority took over, the Christian population dropped to around 12%. But the Christian communities are growing in Israel where they have equal rights under the law and freedom of worship. The Ottoman Caliphate was DEFEATED by the British and French in 1918. Wars have consequences, and the Jewish people supported the British in the war so they were rewarded with the right to reconstitute their ancestral homeland. One-fifth of Israeli citizens are *Arabs who are mostly Muslim*. They have equality under the law with Jews and other minorities. Arab Muslims sit in the Knesset, on the Supreme Court, and even serve in the IDF and security services. They are thriving in the Jewish state of Israel. I recommend that you watch the 5min video called "Does Israel Occupy the West Bank?" by PragerU. You might learn something.
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@Whosthat_
Thousands of Jews were taken as slaves by the Romans to Europe. Jews were also persecuted and displaced, or threatened with death by Muslim invaders when they refused to convert to Islam. They went to Europe, North Africa, other countries in the Middle East, and to Ethiopia and India for economic survival. No matter where they are living in the world they are still #indigenous to Israel. It's the "continuous connection" to their ancestral homeland and their "unique culture" that counts. The Jewish people have a unique Hebrew language, ancient kings, coins, traditions centred on Jerusalem, and ancestral burial places in Hebron. The archaeological sites of the early Jewish people are very well-documented. That's the reality.
Arabs are indigenous to Arabia, Kurds to Kurdistan, Maoris to New Zealand, etc. No matter where in the world they find themselves displaced today. The fact that "Arab lands" are so vast is because the Arabs were at one time the biggest imperialist forces of invasion and conquest the world has ever seen. Thankfully today we see Islam losing power everywhere, and the Jews are back in control in their ancestral land.
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