Comments by "神州 Shenzhou" (@Shenzhou.) on "BBC News"
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@anonsaccount1562 Tibetans and Chinese share a common ancestral language, which is grouped under Sino-Tibetan languages. And China today has over 50 ethnic groups including Han, Mongols, Tibetans, Uighurs, Manchu, and even some Koreans (in Northeastern China) but they are clearly all Chinese citizens isn't it? Just like the United States has Caucasian Americans (white), African Americans (black), Latin Americans (brown), Asian Americans (yellow) and Native Americans (red), yet they are all American citizens.
So aren't the 50 over ethnic groups of China considered Chinese as well?
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@auroragb In the past, Hong Kong was once a prosperous and thriving port city, while the mainland was still dirt-poor at that time. Today however, times have changed and Hong Kong has since fallen behind other rising mainland port cities like Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Ningbo-Zhousan and is facing increasing competition from upcoming mainland cities like Qingdao, Tianjin, Xiamen, Dalian, etc. No wonder why the Hong Kong people feel like they're being left behind.
Source:
List of busiest container ports wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_container_ports
List of busiest ports by cargo tonnage wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_ports_by_cargo_tonnage
Mainland port cities like Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, etc, are actually prospering under authoritarian CCP rule, similar to Hong Kong prospering under authoritarian British Colonial Rule. Only when democracy is introduced to Hong Kong, did its economy began to slump and protests start appearing in the city.
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@auroragb The Chinese Communist Party is not perfect (then again, which government body is?) but despite its initial failures and setbacks, under its leadership, China's population doubled, our lifespans doubled, our literacy rates doubled and our poverty rates plummeted. The graph below shows life-expectencies across China, India, Europe and USA.
Source: Life Expectancy at Birth in China, Europe, USA and India china-profile.com/data/fig_WPP2010_L0_Boths.htm
China was once dirt-poor, war-torn, starving country, similar to India (world's largest democracy) in the past, but today, China has since transformed into economic powerhouse, the world's factory (Made in China), a growing scientific and technological power, protected by world's largest land army, the People's Liberation Army.
And it's all been achieved under CCP leadership, despite what Western anti-communist propaganda been denouncing all along.
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@auroragb And Taiwan had been under authoritarian single-party Kuomintang rule for more than half its life! For decades, the KMT ruled Taiwan with an iron fist and KMT leader Chiang kai-shek was a dictator who jailed and executed many dissidents and political rivals (whether real or perceived) in a period known as White Terror (白色恐怖) and he imposed Martial Law on Taiwan for more than 38 years, which was qualified as "the longest imposition of martial law by a regime anywhere in the world" at that time.
But under authoritarian single-party KMT rule, Taiwan flourished and prospered in what's known as Taiwan Miracle (台湾奇迹) Between 1952-1982, Taiwan's economic growth was on average 8.7%, and between 1983-1986 at 6.9%. Taiwan's GDP grew by 360% between 1965-1986 and the percentage of global exports was over 2% in 1986, over other recently industrialized countries, and the global industrial production output grew a further 680% between 1965-1986. All this occurred under authoritarian single party KMT rule of Taiwan.
Source: Wikipedia: Taiwan Miracle
Only when democracy was introduced in 1990s (because USA threatened to cut off sales of weapons to Taiwan if KMT did not introduce political reforms) did Taiwan's economic growth became more modest. Today, Taiwan's economy is in a slump, wages are stagnant, cost of living is rising, and Taiwan graduates are seeking job opportunities in the mainland or in Singapore. So isn't this a proof that Taiwan actually prospered under authoritarian KMT rule and suffered under democracy? Why fix something that wasn't broken? Because Westerners say so?
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@auroragb Literacy rate being equated with competence only applies to democracies, because like you said, it is the ordinary people that vote in their leaders, so why do you want illiterate people participating in political elections that will affect your country's future? Or those undesirable peoples like beggars, drug addicts, drunkards, deadbeats, dissidents, and so on? What makes you think the lower rung of society will be able to make important decisions regarding the country's future?
India's illiteracy rate is because of its massive population. In the past, China was once like India, a dirt-poor country with enormous population, suffering from high birth rates, high child malnutrition, high child mortality, high illiteracy rates and other population problems. Why allow families to raise multiple kids, only for them to starve to death, to succumb to diseases in childhood because of not enough food, not enough hospitals and not enough schools to send them to?
Instead, why not focus all available resources into raising a single, healthy kid into adulthood and get him into a good school? That's why China introduced the One-Child Policy and according to World Bank, China's poverty rate fell from 88% in 1981 to a mere 0.7% in 2015. According to UNESCO, adult literacy rate of China increased from 65.5% in 1982 to a whopping 96.4% in 2015 growing at an average annual rate of 10.39%. This is impressive feat considering that China is world's most populous country, yet attaining 0.7% poverty and 96.4% literacy.
Source: Wikipedia: Poverty in China
Look at India today and its suffering from population problems like high birth rate, high child malnutrition, high child mortality, low literacy, etc, which were problems that China once suffered from. So why do you still think China should be democracy then? We've been successful following authoritarian rule unlike India and just having 96.4% literacy rate is not a reason to suddenly change to democracy.
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@auroragb Exactly, democracy is inefficient like you say. Why let the whole population rule, when a small number will suffice in the government? And once again, my question never said "dissolve people" you came up with the ridiculous notion yourself here because you can't admit that your countries need governments to function. Why not let the people who know how to govern, govern like I said?
History has proven that much of human civilization follows some sort of authoritarian or oligarchic political systems. Political power was not concentrated in the hands of many, instead it was concentrated in the hands of the few elites, such as the nobles (aristocracy), or priests (theocracy) or kings and emperors (monarchy) Such authoritarian/oligarchic systems were prevalent because they were stable, and simply because they worked. The elites were often well educated and politically savvy, often capable of making political decisions, whereas the ignorant masses were kept well away from politics.
Whereas frankly speaking, democracy has a long history of failure. Proto-democracies like Athenian democracy failed, Spartan democracy failed, and even Republic of Rome eventually failed. In the ancient world, Democracy was never in fact, popular outside of Greece at all, and after Rome fell, many of the individual states began to assume authoritarian rule under monarchy once again.
Modern Western democracy is different but it only has 100-200 years of history to its name, so that's certainly not a guarantee for it to be successful in future. Why then should China adopt Western democracy, simply because Westerners think it is the best political system?
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@auroragb I never said China invented those things. But ancient Chinese had the Four Great Inventions (四大发明) which have greatly influenced history in their respective areas. Paper and Printing made the transcribing and transmission of knowledge and information easier and cheaper. The Compass made navigation easier and dangerous journeys more safer and reliable. And Gunpowder has completely revolutionized the way modern wars are fought.
China has 5000 years of history and is among the world's oldest "continuous" civilization still alive today, whereas other great ancient civilizations like Mesopotamia, Rome and Egypt have since succumbed to history. Ancient Chinese nobility wore luxurious silk clothing since 4th millennium BCE, while the rest of the world wore mostly loincloths and "bedsheets" called togas.
Silk was much prized by rest of the world, so much that a lucrative trade route had been set up and named in honor of the precious material. Along the Silk Road, flowed Chinese luxury goods like silk, tea, paper, gunpowder, porcelain (precious china), etc, that were in high demand by the rest of the ancient world.
Why then, should we Chinese consider ourselves inferior to Westerners? The Westerners mocked Chinese history and made Chinese out to be backward and barbaric in comparison to theirs. We need to stop worshiping the Westerners and start charting our own path to success, instead of Westerners telling Chinese what to do.
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@auroragb Democracy IS inefficient like it or not. You need to spend money to host election campaigns, allocate resources and manpower for ballot boxes and count and tabulate results, just to decide which leader is most popular that's all. How is this good for the country? Some of your elected leaders even lack political experience (like President Trump for example) so why waste all that money just to get an incompetent person in power you tell me?
Whereas in China, only the top elites (the Communist Party members) are voting in elections, which saves China plenty of money and resources in hosting democratic elections in the world's most populous country. If you want to participate in politics then you must join the communist party (not easy feat, you have to be top 5% in your field) and slowly work your way up to a high-ranking position, by garnering votes from other politically savvy communist party members.
It's not a perfect system and it is tedious process, but it has produced politically experienced leaders such as President Xi Jinping, who has at least 30-40 years of political experience, so that's why most Chinese people believe he is competent enough to rule China. I mean, you are governing a country of 1.4 billion people (300 million for USA) so obviously, we only want the best and most competent to rule. Why the Americans allow Trump, someone with zero political experience prior, to become president and lead their country?
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@auroragb Primitive? If it's stupid but works (as it did for over 1000s of years) then in my opinion, it isn't stupid. Look at all those numerous authoritarian and oligarchic empires, for example, Achaemenid Empire, Akkadian Empire, Armenian Empire, Assyrian Empire, Aztec Empire, Babylonian Empire, Bruneian Empire, Egyptian Empire, Chinese Empire, Japanese Empire, Inca Empire, Khmer Empire, Korean Empire, Kushan Empire and like I said, authoritarian regimes are popular simply because they served as the most efficient form of political government, they were stable, and simply because they worked!
Democracy was never popular outside of Greece in the ancient world, for the reasons I illustrated earlier and you claim democracies that fall are almost always conquered? Which country conquered the Republic of Rome? Or did Rome fell because democracy tore the country apart from within, as the individual states began no longer recognizing themselves as part of Rome?
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@RaginYak I mean, why don't you tell the Americans to give up their claims to Hawaii? Hawaii is out there in the Pacific Ocean, so far away from the American mainland, yet they are part of America? Or why don't you tell all non-Native Americans and Canadians to get out of America and leave the lands to the Native Americans? The Europeans colonised Americas 600 years ago, but Tibet had been part of China since 800 years ago when the Mongols conquered Kingdom of Thibet and Song Dynasty China and incorporated those territory into Yuan Dynasty China.
You just don't want to admit that Tibet was historically part of China longer than the European colonisation of America, and even today, Tibet is regarded as part of China by world leaders all over the world. US, India, Britain all betrayed Tibet? Who do you think you are? If you protest Tibet then why don't you go set yourself on fire like those self-immolating Tibetans? Just a mere 148 Tibetan self-immolated, means the entire 3 million population of Tibet must bow down to their demands?
Go film yourself "self-immolating" and post it on YouTube, some you "care" so much about Tibet.
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@annomaly751 Look at the West, and they just bend over backward to accommodate Muslim immigrants. Muslim refugees are fleeing their conflict ridden Islamic countries and flooding the Western countries like United States, United Kingdom, France, Germany, etc, and the Muslims are under little pressure to adapt to their predominantly Christian host countries, much to the chagrin of Westerners.
For example, instead of adopting their host country's cultures, Muslims immigrants continue their traditional culture like Muslim men marrying multiple wives, or Muslim women wearing Muslim headveil out in public, and secretly, many Westerners are (understandably) angry that Muslims are not assimilating, but can't voice their honest opinions for fear of being labelled "racist" (even though Islam is not a race) or "Islamophobe." The Muslims take Westener's silence as acceptance of their ways.
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