Comments by "PeterC" (@peterc4082) on "Metatron" channel.

  1.  @RemnantDiscipleLazzaro-Rev1217  Where did you see this? The Church actually does not forbid people from thinking that the shroud is real. But it's also not saying it is. So they disagree with you.
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  2. Isn't this about the near occasion of sin? Seminaries are male only. If hetero men join them and swear to celibacy, there is little occasion of sin or little temptation. However, gay men, i.e. men who find other men sexually attractive may find themselves attracted sexually to their peers or colleagues and this may put additional strain on them. Likewise some seniors who are in position of power, may find themselves attracted to some of the junior seminarians and because of the imbalance in the power dynamic may find themselves in a difficult situation. Imagine becoming a priest as a hetero guy where priests can be male or female and you share a seminary with beautiful women you will be drawn to through no fault of your own. This may just be a prudential form of reasoning the Church is following here.
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  3. Thank you for sharing that you're an agnostic--- now I can go to bed knowing you have no bone in this 'fight'.
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  4.  @dorinpopa6962  Some people liked the USSR because of several reasons. 1. Nostalgia. They were younger. Things were rosier back then. 2. They were party members. Some were privileged. Same happened in Poland where PZPR people were very fond of the old communist system. 3. They came from WW2 and later Stalinist purges. Things looked up after those ended, comparitively speaking. Prior to that were the 20s and 30s which were just as bad. 4. They had few points of reference. They were isolated in the USSR and were told that conditions were terrible everywhere else, especially in the capitalist world. You only have to read what Lenin and Stalin wrote about the capitalist exploiters. 5. The period after the collapse of the USSR was very turbulent. There was crime. There was inflation. The currency became worthless. Savings became worthless. People lost their jobs. There was unrest. There were wars such as in Chechnya. All in all one can see why some pined for the old USSR. USSR gave them a sense of purpose. It was an ersatz religion. The space programme. The nuclear weapons. The defilades with the tanks and ICBMS. All the propaganda. All of that made people nostalgic and positive toward those years. It's true that Russia was very undedeveloped but so was much of the world. Europe had tremendous strides in literacy and development in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Development, progress and industrialisation would have eventually come to Russia. We saw it come to the west and that prevented communism from taking hold. Populations were growing but the infant mortality rate and life expectancy were significantly HIGHER. The authorities would lie about epidemics even of childhood diseases. Books and media were censored. It was a terrible place and time to live in. Currently populations decline because that happens in developed nations. People simply don't have more kids when things improve and education levels improve. Finally who industrialised the USSR? My great grandparents worked in St Petersburg before the revolution in a factory which built trains. It still functions to this day. The bread in those days had raisins in it. Food was plentiful. The tsars had already started to industrialise. But who industrialised the USSR more completely? The West. People like Henry Ford did. Lend Lease won the war for the Russians. The Russians looted also what they could from more industrial parts of their new empire, such as Poland. You pine for the USSR, but it were the capitalists who made the USSR industrial. The Russians copied so much western tech.
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  5.  @RationalistMH  Yes priests don't live with nuns. But gay priests would live, at least in seminary or in the holy orders, with other men. Yes you're supposed to have basic self control but avoiding the occasion of sin is a Catholic teaching. A person is supposed to not tempt sin, not test their self control but avoid anything which puts him or her in a situation where temptation can occur. It's also not true that priests interact with nuns. There are NO NUNS in any of the Catholic parishes I attend in South Africa. These priests are mostly diocesan priests and there are no nuns. I am sure there are some priests who interact with nuns but the interaction is limited and they don't cohabit. I don't know what it means the Church is very bad in accountability. When you compare to who? Who is accountable more? Which organisation has no abuses? Which is pure and well self regulated and passes all external audits with insignificant findings? Do such even exist? Come on. Anyway I gave a reason why the Chuch might not like people with same sex attraction in the seminary. As to what they actually do, I don't know. Also I don't hate gay people, gay people are human beings like you and me and must enjoy all human rights we all enjoy. Hate and discrimination against them is sinful and also illegal. Have a good day.
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  6. The samples were contaminated with cotton from the time the shroud was repaired in medieval France. That probably invalidates the C14 results. If this was any other scientific study there would be a need to re-run the analysis from a different region of the shroud. Now the hokus pokus about potential bias and anti-religious angle are irrelevant and don't affect the fact that the sample should be representative.
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  7. Actually no, it's not common apparently. Remember the usual way of killing was to break the legs and that would cause asphyxiation as the legs would be used to push up to allow for chest expansion and inhalation. But guess what, we don't have other images! Only this one.
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  8.  @str.77  Do you see images form on cloths nowadays? Human bodies don't leave begind images on cloths. Otherwise we'd have hospitals full of such images. Don't overthink this.
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  9. Fr Spitzer who has a PhD in physics thinks the shroud is 99% genuine. Metatron is a bit of a weebo and has at best a BA.
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  10.  @taylorlibby7642  I have an MD degree and have even taught American doctors. Spitzer has a PhD in physics at the very least. Metatron comes across as too opinionated for an intellectual. I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion. It would make Spitzer more scientifically literate than someone who studies history.
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  11.  @unarealtaragionevole  We have evidence that there was contamination because Raymond Rogers wrote that up, he wrote several publications about it several scientific journals. The sample was not representative and was in fact contaminated by the repair process. I think you're nitpicking here. I didn't imply there was laboratory contamination but it was contaminated nevertheless. The object which was under study was the original linen shroud and the image on it and not medieval cotton. The testing itself was not incorrect but the sampling was incorrect ergo the results are likely invalid. Also I don't think the technicians at the time knew about this because it took Rogers and several others some years to write various responses and publish their own findings. So no, the people who published the 1988 findings didn't know. It doesn't matter what Breault thinks, what matters is that the C14 testing was likely not carried out correctly, i.e. not sampled properly. Father Spitzer has stated he suspects there was some skullduggery involved in all of this. I very much doubt this priest with a PhD would openly lie in public, he and others think there was bias against the shroud being from the 1st century. If I remember correctly a reward had even been offered (of 1 million USD) to prove the shroud inauthentic. As for the testing apparently there were problems with the results too in terms of the deviations noted across the laboratories. Likewise the original data was not released for a long time despite requests to have it released. But all of this is moot. In science when we have results which could be contaminated we should redo the test and use true representative samples. Whatever this guy in the video said, and heck this is a touchy subject with people with biases on every side, peoples arguments have to stand on actual merit. As we shouldn't accuse the technologists who ran the original C14 testing of anti-shroud bias, so too we should not accuse this man of bias which would affect the matter of truth of this case.
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  12. @JohnDoe-xs5gv We traveled and interacted with Russians, dude. Fsck man there was a RUSSIAN military base near my father's home town. My mother traveled to the USSR in the 60s. We knew these Soviets better than you will ever.
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  13.  @TheExtremeIRON  Being a factory worker with terrible living and working conditions morphed into being a factory worker with maternity leave, sick leave, long holiday leave, overtime pay, day care for kids, medical insurance payments, home loan subsidies, occupational health and safety regulations etc. Farm life in Russia in the 1800s wasn't as bad as it's made out to be. It was what it was for the time. Things would have improved regardless as even the tsar was modernising and tech became cheaper. Things like vaccinations were appearing. Things are bad in the third world but they were least bad in the developed parts of the third world, take a country like South Africa, or even Namibia or Botswana where the life of a miner is quite reasonable. Oh but you''ll say, they developed silicosis or TB, well so did Western miners and everyone in the west lived surrounded by asbestos in the 50s. Things change and they improve with time. The West drove the development of many things. Even now if you look at 99% of medicines out there, they're western. Russians copied or purchased many of those under communism. With the whole world being like USSR we'd be backward and still trying to figure out how to treat high blood pressure or diabetes.
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  14. You left out the fact that dead bodies crucified or not don't leave such images behind on cloth.
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  15.  @unarealtaragionevole  You sure write a lot of chaff. The results were likely invalid because of contamination from medieval cotton. One of the criticisms is that. The only thing you've corrected me on is Spitzer's education not being involved in physical sciences but the rest of the things you bring up are really irrelevant. The actual criticism has to be addressed and not the state of mind or motivations why some people criticise. Let's not have conspiracy theories either way. Why would someone who 'found religion' argue lies to satisfy himself? With what, to fool himself? You may as well argue that the protestants who did the testing or sample analysis were hostile to the Catholic church or Italy (as Anglos mainly did the testing) and now claim they only saw a few cotton fibers and they removed them all. The Church never said the shroud is real. Final testing from an area where the image is would help clear up any confusion or arguments about the authenticity of the shroud.
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  16.  @bookman7409  You do understand that the technicians who performed the C14 could have been entirely competent but the sampling strategy may have been questionable? That would call the results into question. Things like that happen all the time. For example people biopsy lesions and they don't represent the actual site of pathology or miss it and a clean diagnosis is made and the patient later dies of the illness. I've been around such mistakes myself. You assume that once 'an expert' samples something that is 100% correct correct sample and that's that. The rebuttals to this were, oh we found a few fibers and trust us that's all there was. Normally if there is any question one resamples the object and re-runs the tests. Yes sometimes we have to biopsy the patient again. The rebuttals to the contamination theory are: The invisible weaving would have been picked up by the human expert who checked the sample. Another expert said yes we found cotton but we removed it. The provenance of the samples used to argue for the contamination with medieval fibers have a provenance i.e. chain of custody which can't be proven. Well of course they don't have such a chain because fresh samples are not available. People want to trust the eyes of the expert who judged the excised sample but reject the other experts who claim their samples are authentic. The easiest thing to do is to RETEST the cloth.
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  17.  @mnk9073  But nobody has reproduced the shroud image though. How many such images have you seen? There are also no traces of silver on the shroud as that would have been reported on.
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  18. Go to bed man, and don't post while drunk.
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  19.  @bewawolf19  I didn't admit I am wrong because I never question Metatron's Roman and Greek information. I can't be bothered to check up on it and assume he knows what he's talking about. The term intellectual has nothing to do with intellect and you will usually find intellectuals are less sure of themselves when they speak about things or at least they know the world is often grey or their understanding is grey or there is nuance. Metatron does not come across as someone who uses much nuance. I'm sorry. And that's not to say the guy is bad, he apparently has a team of people working for him. Good. Just that this may not be his field.
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  20.  @bewawolf19  Saying one is an intellectual doesn't mean the other isn't but what I see of your hero, Metatron, and it's OK to have heroes, he seems to be an expert on the ancient world in the Mediterranean and even beyond, he's an expert on Japanese samurai as well. But for other things his opinion is as valid as the next guy. He also claims to speak Japanese so he's a man of many talents. And he makes videos for ordinary people. I do find him too opinionated in general but for the above things I give him a pass and assume he knows what he's talking about. Sometimes he veers into biology or medicine or even Catholic theology and I realise that he is average at best, a lay person. Man you really post a lot of chaff. Have a good day. Re-read what I said and if you disagree OK. I'm sorry to have offended your perception of your hero. Now you could say I am opinionated too. That's fine. But I don't make youtube videos where I roll my eyes, grimace and insinuate I am a sharp critical thinker and an expert on numerous topics. Unless we assume this is a comedy channel in which case, sure it's a comedy talk show channel. Have a nice day.
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  21.  @TheExtremeIRON  Capitalism actually improved lives. Yes there was some subsidiarity in it. Christian democracy and Catholic subsidiarity started to improve conditions in Germany in the early 20th century. There were also improvements in human rights and labour protections all across the continent in the 20th century. That's why communism had a hard time. They switched to identity politics. The se-xual revolution and so on. Repressive tolerance of Herbert Marcusse and the Frankfurt School.
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  22.  @RustyWalker  Do bodies create images of themselves on cloth? Are morgues and hospitals full of such images? Remember the body did not decompose into the cloth.
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  23.  @yoeyyoey8937  Set aside God or not God. The image requires an explanation and is truly remarkable. Heck if it can be confirmed it's a medieval forgery, I want to know how and by who.
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  24.  @Tenebris_Sint  You're a Levite Jew now but not in the first century. I'm not an expert on Jewish customs but many experts have written about this, go and argue with them. I can't judge whether you are correct or not hence you won't convince me either way. It's also not the case that things always go as planned or always happen the same way, and it is quite possible that the body was taken down and treated well as per the gospels. I understand you have an emotional need for this not to be Jesus Christ and for Jesus Christ to be fake and hence I think there is nothing more we can say to each other.
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  25. Glass filters out UV. So BZZZT wrong. But Occam's Razor: how many such images do you know of which have peoples' images burned on them? There are precisely 0.
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  26.  @pewneosoby2108  This is not true. And please realise that the 10 Commandments and Bible you read was originally compiled by the Catholic Church. Your Henry edited it, as did Luther and Calvin.
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  27.  @ilcattivo13  Please note that being gay itself is not a sin. What is considered a sin is having sex outside of marriage and also having sex between the same sex, and so on. So a gay priest would be perfectly fine as long as he is not in a sexual relationship with another man (or anyone else). Having same sex attraction is not a sin. As far as we know it's something which just happens to you, the way maybe you and I are hetero, gay people are attracted to their own sex. That's all. Again that's not a sin.
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  28.  @stevenlancestoll629  What is your malfunction? Do you want off topic discussions? Isn't there some gnu atheist video you can ramble in?
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  29.  @magicpyroninja  They would have. Popes never used rude language or hurtful language. I can't imagine Benedict of JP II using such language. I'm sure there is something lost in translation here or maybe the current pope had interacted a lot with street people and picked up the language that way (or at least the Spanish equivalent)
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  30. @captainobvious2435 There weren't that many people involved. Many scientists claim that there was a strong likelihood of contamination. And we all know people make mistakes or just process what gets put in front of them. Certainly no piece with the image was assessed by C14 dating. That should be done to lay the matter to rest once and for all.
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  31.  @str.77  The guy above suggest that puncturing the lung to cause a hemopneumothorax was the usual way of killing. I responded that it apparently wasn't. Breaking the legs was the usual way to make sure the person on the cross was really dead.
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  32.  @buckjones4901  The shroud is still owned by the Savoy family. The Church is only the caretaker but they have final say.
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  33.  @HREguy  I think the cloth is very remarkable and needs to be addressed for the purpose of academic certainty.
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  34.  @biggerdoofus  The body is dead, rigor mortis. The image can't be explained.
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  35.  @bewawolf19  Last point my logic was not flawed. I'm sorry. You're one of these kids who has not achieved much in his life and you need to show how someone else's logic is 'wrong', But I made no logic blunders. Now go away.
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  36. $5 is a lot of money. Maybe in the still wealthy European Union, it's peanuts but for 90% of the world, it's a lot of money.
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  37.  @TheExtremeIRON  These things are also being implemented in the developing world. I live in South Africa although I'm a dual EU/SA citizen. Here (SA) many people now enjoy rights that previously whites enjoyed. Things like maternity leave, long holidays, overtime pay, etc. These came earlier however to the west, back when Daimler could implement these, their cars had few Chinese components or none at all. The thing is that these things were implemented in the West post WW2, back when Europe/US were still manufacturing. It's only now that we find that they're becoming less affordable. But China is manufacturing only since the 90s in appreciable amounts. The issue now is that Europe has too much socialism and even cheap Chinese labour can't compensate. But this is from the Frankfurt School. I didn't really say capitalism itself was some sort of Arcadia. I'm saying that the West using the economy/political model it had and I think Christian Democratic subsidiarity compliments capitalism very well, eg free Sundays, was what drove development. We were able to for example develop vaccines and new methods of agriculture which feed the Global South populations and reduce infant morality rates. What did the Soviets give us. NOTHING. As a black South African mine worker would tell you, FOKOL. All we have which is good, is because of non-communist states.
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  38.  @Tenebris_Sint  Are you an expert on 1st c Judaism and you can tell that happened regularly, even with Passover starting?
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  39.  @mariaavalon3730  Catholics believe that Christ's Body is present in the Eucharist. The Church explains these verses in a logical way. You should google that. But then I have to ask, what has that to do with the dating of the shroud? Can't you let your rabid antitheism go for a few seconds and instead focus on this or are you so triggered that you're a single topic person? Go debate theology elsewhere. Oh and if you're Muslim or Jewish, OK, that's your religion, go debate that elsewhere.
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  40.  @mariaavalon3730  These have all been debunked and they are materially different to what happened with Christ. But even if similar occurrences occurred how does this prove that Christ did not rise from the dead? You're pulling a kind of ad hominem fallacy. Two guys, Habermas and NT Wright wrote some good texts to rebut all your concerns.
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  41.  @Tenebris_Sint  Your rabbi taught you that.
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  42.  @Edmund_Mallory_Hardgrove  You say so based on ancecdotal evidence. Maybe they have more evidence that co-ed dorms and such don't work as well.
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  43.  @skibidi.G  Gay means same sex attraction. That's all being gay means. It's not a sin. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
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  44.  @pewneosoby2108  I don't know what your malfunction is but why are you telling me that Catholics use the Catechism when I already said so previously. I don't know about the wives but culture was different > 2000 years ago. Christianity did a lot to make people equal.
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  45.  @petercarroll684  Openly gay as what- having sex with other men? Yes that would not fit with Catholic teaching for a priest. However a priest who says - I am sexually attracted to men, but I don't have sex with anyone because of my celibacy vows would not be an issue for the Church.
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  46.  @meraketh  No. If you are attracted sexually that does not mean you look at them with lust. Temptation is not sin. Sin is an act, sure it can be mental but it has to be an act of will. It's not a feeling, at least in Catholic teaching which is true and only Christianity. Looking at someone lustfully would be to look at them with desire. That's not the same as finding them sexually attractive. If you have a coworker who looks sexually attractive to you, having fantasies about her would be sinful but merely having such a colleague and having to interact non sexually because of work and such would not be sinful even though incidentally you would experience feelings of desire. Things you can't help are not sinful. Things you can help - such as fantasies, sexual flirting or actual sex acts - yes those would be sinful.
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  47.  @mnk9073  They discovered later that the specimens were not representative of the actual image under study. The repairs were known but strange that other people had to point out that the region was not representative. I believe they verified that using some of their own samples left over from the STURP project.
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  48.  @bookman7409  Most of his wall of text comment goes into the psychology of the church and some of the people mentioned here. I.e. it's chaff. Most of it is conspiracy theory stuff.
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  49.  @unarealtaragionevole  I never claimed there were lies or deceits. My point is that that the material is contaminated with medieval material. I think you don't like the word contaminate but there's nothing ominous about using that word. There was medieval contamination of the shroud with cotton which had been weaved in. The errors are that the material was CONTAMINATED or was not representative hence the results may be biased by known organic material which differs from the material under study. It's like a crime scene. If you have other peoples' DNA there, you can't claim they are the culprit when you know they had a right to be there because they lived in the house. Now the rebuttals there are that - trust me bro we checked for contamination, we found some and we removed it or, trust me I checked for other fibers weaved in or not and nope they weren't there. But people can make mistakes and later not want to admit or maybe they were just not as thorough. The whole sample was taken from an area which had been handled and fixed and others have come forth to say that there would be cotton there. Now as to why the Church won't allow more testing - here we're going off course. As to how maybe Rogers got religion - we're also going of course. As to why protestant universities and often a naturalistic Richard Dawkins like clique may want to rubbish these results - no, that's not possible. Let's throw all the conspiracy stuff out. Point is that the material was contaminated or NOT REPRESENTATIVE (are you fine with that term) and hence C14 being the only thing which suggests this is medieval, we may have reasonable doubts about it. The Church doesn't claim the shroud is real or not real. They did allow its testing once and maybe they are happy with the medieval result. We can however say the shroud is unique and highly remarkable with many lines of evidence pointing to it being much older and its uncanny how it still eludes mass duplication utilising primitive means as as what the naturalists among us claim this was all along or some one in a billion natural phenomenon of just the right circumstances for a recently deceased body to leave such an image.
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  50. @captainobvious2435 You need to know that the Church doesn't own the shroud, it's owned by the Savoy family as far as I know.
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