Comments by "Kat 1515" (@Kat-fq4ei) on "Johnny Harris"
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@erick2214 You are way off, it was not Mexico or Mexican who explored and introduced Christianity to the western world. It was Spain. By the time Mexico and Mexican citizens came along, 1824, Independence from Spain, Spain had 300 years prior, explored from what is today Vera Cruz to Mexico City by 1521, then explored towards the west to the Gulf of Cortez, then later to Zacatecas spanning 40 years, simultaneously another Spaniard Peninsular explorer, Coronado explored what are today Arizona, New Mexico and Texas all the way up to Kansas. And yet another exploration, Spain claiming California and Pacific coast. All were different explorations and claimed by Spain at different intervals. To become different territories and parts of New Spain along with Florida, Mississippi areas, Louisiana, Pacific coast, Caribbeans, Philippines, plus. Spain established a caste system of Peninsulares/ Espanoles, Criollos, mestizo, Indio, mulatto. But no Mexican. The territories were New Spain but no Mexico. Had England beat Spain to claim what is today Mexico, you can bet your bottom dollar the English would have killed you off and relocated the rest to the far off desert and Mexico would not exist. And what are today Mexican indians/European would not be mestizo, instead metis, a mixture of Anglo and Indian and English would be the language, much like the Shawnee and Lenape and other tribes . You see, histoical events determine today's world. Had the European never come, you'd be pure whatever your tribe. Tenichotilan was renamed Mexico City by Spain, so there would be no Spanish influenced named city. And all of what is today Mexico would still be known by the indigenous names who would still be scalping, cannabolizing, and at war with one another. In other words there would be no Mexico, "Indian" would be unknown, "one people" would not be, there would be no Mexican pride. America was one continent of enemy tribes who competed in localized geographical area, were at war, slaved, and influenced by their geography, had different religions, gods, languages and much of what is today called Mexico had no pyramids. The territories to become Mexico is influenced by the European world. But Mexican and Spanish are not to be conflated. Same soil which changed hands like much of the world, different goverenment system, different era and many times Mexican are anti Spanish toward the European that gave them language, Catholic religion and influenced the name of their country, Mexico. No, Mexicans did not explore or bring Chrstianity to the indigenous, Spain did. Mexico is a Johnny come late.
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@xavi4694 Speak of ignorance, Mexico is not a state, it's a nation---since 1821. It was formed as part of New Spain, not Mexico. New Spain may not have had colonies but it had many different territories from Cuba to Philippines, Central America, California to Florida, today's Mexico. New Spain had a viceroy who answered to the King in Spain, never independent from Spain, . Look at any New Spain map and there is no Mexico. You're conflating Spain with Mexico. What is today Mexico had been several territories of New Spain, the native people were conquered becoming subjects of Spain and answered to Spain for three centuries. they were not independent until 300 years after 1521 when several of New Spains territories became Mexico. . The people were subjects of Spain until 1821 regardless of the riches and affluence Spain brought to Mexico CITY/Tenochitlan in the sixteenth century during an era when there was no European in what is today the United States, the English did not colonize Jamestown until 1610, fourty years after St Augustine Florida in 1565 and 1598 in New Mexico, territories of New Spain also. And almost 90 years after Mexico CITY in the territory of Tenochitlan, land of the Aztec. So naturally there were only buffalo in what became Great Britains colonies at that early time in American history of the 1500s . "Mexico" was never a nation and never independent from Spain until 1821.And it was Spain as it's conqueror who influenced and developed New Spains territories under Spains viceroy. The same land as Mexico of 1821, a new era, a different goverenment, never had the world power, world influence, world empire or world money as Spain had once held... In 1824, the young Mexico formed it's nations constitution under Estados Unidos Mexicanos with it's brand new Mexican flag no longer under Spains flag. The young Mexican government was not monarchial like Spain, rather a western world Republic, born a poor mestizo nation with a corrupt dictorial goverenment, having many conflicts and revolutions, who's citizens were unpatriotic, it's poor soldiers were not beholden to Santa Ana rather to their humble impoverished villages. No comparison to the United States who became a nation in 1776 and by the 1800s had founded a great nation, had a powerful military with advanced weapons, Mexico barely a nation easily conquered. Spain and Mexico were as different as Great Britain and the United States. Each went to battle the European mother land becoming independent and no longer under it's yoke. You're dreaming steam, a native from New Spain did not have the same rights as a native from Madrid, a New Spain European colonist had more rights than a native, all under a caste system of Peninsulares, crillos, mestizo, Indio, mulatto. Natives in New Spain were even branded back in the 1500s.
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@xavi4694 . I'm far from all wrong..... Problem is it was not Mexico's Empire, it was Spains Empire, a world power for over two centuries which was gone by 1800. Wrong, they were not Mexican during that time. Under Spains rule, they were classified as Peninsulares, crillos, mestizo, Indio, mulatto, but there was yet no Mexican. Spain did find 1519 a mexica Aztec from Tenochitlan which Spain called the valley of Mexico (CITY). The New Spain territories were full of non-mexica tribes, so by nature there was no county/empire of Mexico, as only a fraction of the Indians in what is today Mexico were mexica/Aztec. . Spain knew the territories as Kingdoms of -- Mexico, Nuevo Leon, Estramadura, Galacia, Yucatan, etc. There would be no Mexico today if Great Britain, France or Russia had claimed the territories never to rename Tenochitlan, Mexico City. There would be no Mexico todsy if in 1800, France had not invaded Spain resulting in Spain putting it's energy and resources in Europe, loosing America , Spain, no longer an empire, lost it's New Spain territories in bits and pieces, Louisiana, Florida Mexico, today's SW, Philippines, Cuba, Central America. Before Mexican independence, SPAIN was in the process of allowing Americans to land grant Anglo settlements in its far north Texas territory-Spain/US borderland, through M Austin, having lost it's great empire before 1800. The US, Great Britain, France dealt with Spain and it's monarchial system and after 1821 with Mexicos Republic. Spain by 1800, had too much land and limited resources when Mexico became a it's own nation ,1821. You fail to mention that Mexico City or Tenochitlans Kingdom of Mexico Territory was was Spains only territory with all the impressive wealth and riches to later become the nation of Mexicos heart and core. In fact you don't mention alot. It was Mexico, not Spain who was conquered by the United States. It was the United States who occupied Mexico City in 1848, all those 300 year old universities, hospitals, libraries, palaces and blablabla then belonged to the United States through conquest, the United States flew the red, white and blue 🇺🇸 over Mexico City, returned the land to Mexico under the US, Mexico Treaty. The United States didn't need all those 300 years old impressive buildings and property ... . The United States was self made, Europe did not make it. Mexico was born impoverished in 1821, just barely a nation in diapers, was in serious War debt, it's soldiers were unpaid, untrained and starving and MEXICO could not hold it together. Mexico was not even truly independent until the 1860s, Europe still had it's power over Mexico. Forget Spain, it was gone before the Mexican War and didn't even give a helping hand to Mexico. Of course Mexico kicked out Spain/Peninsulares after independence, Mexico had no need for Spain even before 1821, battled Spain for a decade and many Mexicans have no need for Spain, Cortez or even Malinche... In fact, Spain is a dirty word to many Mexicans. Von Holbdt explorer and mapper and given his intellect, certainly knew the political climate of his day in America, as a mapper was certainly aware of New Spains territories, and later independence of Mexico as a new nation; yet had been given permission to enter Spains territories by Spains European monarchs prior to Mexican independence. Van Holbdt was impressed by the Kingdom of Mexico territory, Aztec country/Mexico City, many times called "Mexico" specific to that area. If Von Holbdt was so impressed, a great part of Mexico City came from European Spain. And Spain was influenced by the Arabs , who were highly advanced in the arts, science, math, etc bringing these to America. Takings things out of context does no good. Racial integration is an exaggeration. New Spain always had it's caste system, the Peninsulares were superior, followed by their American born children,-crillos, mestizo was a little better, Indians and mulattos were at the bottom: later under the Mexican regime starting in 1821 race was always a problem and the cause of many revolutions. No one is arguing the advances in mesoamerica by the Aztec and Mayan, prior to the Spanish. Archeological discoveries are focused on these native tribes. But they do not comprise all of New Spain indigenous who were not advanced and most still living in the stone age, were not Aztec mexica tribes which were just a portion of New Spain, there were hundreds upon hundreds of enemy tribes slaughtering each other throughout New Spain....And would still be slaughtering each other if not for European intervention. New Spain was heavily influenced by Spain - language, religion, European culture and all those Mexico City European buildings-palaces, castles, hospitals, cathedrals, blablabla brought by Spain through conquest especially in the Tenochitlan or Kingdom of Mexico TERRITORY and surrounding Kingdoms areas, central Mexico today, during an era when there was no nation of Mexico. . Nevertheless the Mexico of today, or parts of New Spain developed into it's own country "Mexico" centuries after its indigenous were conquered by Spain. History is history but Indians from Jamestown and all parts of the United States are protected under Federal Indian law; many lands, rivers, mountains etc have been returned, reparations are the norm, USA Indian tribes receive ridiculous amounts of annual federal funding, while those Indian tribes in Mexico with all their equal rights , have had their indigenous lands taken from them, having no say on the matter. And for all those two utopiac centuries of all races having equal rights in New Spain prior to the USA, many Mexican citizens fled Mexico to the far off wilderness , United States border after the War and continued to flee to the US during the Mexican Revolution.....you need a history lesson instead vof pulling stuff off the internet.
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That's how wars work, the USA was not going to wait around for Mexico to get their act together. Mexico wanted to be a nation and Mexico was the crook here. Spains focus was in Europe at that time, battling France and Spain did not want to loose what was left of New Spain. It had already Treaty'd Florida and Louisiana. Spain refused to acknowledge Mexico's independence and Spains King refused to sign the Treaty of Cordova, and never Treaty'd its lands to Mexico. Mexico piggy backed what was left of New Spain. Mexico listed Spains lands as Mexico under its Estados Unidos Mexicanos 1824 constitution, Mexico stealing the lands imperialisty but was unable to manage them. Spain and Mexico battled for a decade after independence. The USA was strategic and had better rifles facing the odds of battling on Mexico's turf and outnumbered. USA occupied Mexico and flew the USA flag over Mexico City. That's victory. Even returned half of Mexico, it's heart and core... The USA was not obligated to pay Mexico, victor always takes the spoils. It's written in man's DNA , Mexico is no exception. Mexico lost the war, and lost lands that historically were Spains lands. Interestingly it was convenient for Mexico to Treaty with the USA to define its lands, waters and border, yet 25 years earlier it had no need to a Treaty whatsoever with Spain to define anything. Mexico played dirty. And really had no need for California, New Mexico which included Arizona, and Texas. They were just real estate money for Mexico who was party to two transactions of 25 million dollars. Not bad for stolen lands...
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@raulelenes4194 Nonesense. Thats ridiculous. Your story would be believabe to anyone who is uneducated on the SW.... Northern New Mexico in particular was the first Spanish Colonial towns in New Spains tierras nuevas up in the far north since1598. The only assimilation were the Pueblo tribes, conquered and Catholized. Much of your story is incorrect as you mix all these tribes making it look like everything was favorable between the native SW Indians and Mexicans. Not so. To begin with the NM Spanish Colonial settlers had no ties to the Mayo or Yaqui who were native tribes from Sonora, Sinaloa, Durango. Some Yaqui were brought north up to today's Arizona, at that time was New Mexico, during the late 1700s by missionaries which were dismantled by Spain. The Yaqui and Mayo were totally separate from the Navaho and numerous Apache tribes who were closer in proximity to today's Mexico than the northern Pueblo NM tribes. There was no Arizona territory under Spain. And the Apache n Navaho where far removed from the northern Spanish, being unconquered enemies, raiding NM until 1880s. And boy, did the Apache, Comanche and Kiowa give Mexico torture 1821-to at least 1860. They raided deep into Mexico killing in El Paso, Durango, Chihuahua, Sonora, villages along Yaqui streams, Concho River. Pillaging ranches and mines. Scalping hundreds of heads. So much for assimilation.... To begin with Spain didn't have control over the Indians, except for the Pueblo tribes in NM. And not much berries in California or Texas. On the other hand, US soldiers and Indians toward the east from Comanche lands were permitted hunting on the lands. Also the Comanche had good relationships with the Republic of Texas and Nuevomexicanos. So its your story thats nonsense. The only Spanish settlements in New Mexico were in the north for over 250 years, from Socorro up to Taos, most along the Rio Grande, home to most Pueblo tribes. These peoples be they Spanish or Indian had no connection to Sonora, Sinaloa, Nuevo Leon, Coachuila , Tamalpais.
Approx late 1800s , Mexicans migrated north to border areas. In New Mexico , these towns, southern NM, were 300 miles from northern NM, they were Mexican settlement towns having a heritage, culture and families connected to Mexico. New Mexico was totally barren for over 300 miles to El Paso during the Spanish Colonial Period until approximately 1880, this was past the SW Mexican Period. New Mexico has two cultures Spanish north and Mexican south. Spanish New Mexico preserved the Spanish heritage, was not mestizo in culture as the Spanish did not generally mix with Indians, and the thousands of Indians were unconquered, 100% Indian. Most of the blood mixture was by capturing of one or the other. California and Texas were also SW Spanish Colonial territories and histories are similar to NM but they were close in proximity to different tribes. These territories did not participate in Mexican independence or were part of Mexico City's political dynamics against Spain. Yet Mexico took quasi control of these New Spain lands and mandated Mexican citizenship after 1821 independence, these inherently knew they were not Mexican as well as the Indians. The native Spanish colonists were not necessarily patriotic to Mexico as to Spaim, sided with Americans and became American 1848. Neither do they celebrate Mexican Independence Day. Or are culturally Mexican as those from Chihuahua, Sonora, Nuevo Leon, etc. There really was no historical connection except for New Spain governed by Spain. New Spain was many Territories far and wide, including Cuba, Central America plus much more. My previous comments are historically correct.
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Navajo, Comanche, Ute, Pawnee, Sioux, Shasta, Chumash, Mohave, Pueblo Caddo and all other California, New Mexico and Texas tribes are not Mexican indigenous. Indians didn't found the USA which did not become a country until 1776. Before the European came there was no America, no Canada, no USA no Mexico, no nothing but vast lands occupied by migrations of nomadic enemy tribes for thousands of years.
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The original and only Mexican were the Aztec "mexica " tribes from Tenochtitlan renamed "Mexico City" by Spain. Tenochtitlan, Montezumas reign was the "Mexico" in 1519, when Spain arrived, and considered the "valley of Mexico" by Spain also known as the New Spain Kingdom of Mexico Territory after Spain colonized, that area the first of Spains colonization in the the New World continent. To later be surrounded by many other territories and enemy tribes who were not mexica Aztec as Spain continued explorations; the Kingdoms of Galacia, Yucatan, Nuevo Leon, Nuevo Estramadura , Nuevo Navarra, etc. Territories, named so by Spain, becoming parts of New Spain over decades of Spains land claimes which also included the far north from California to Pacific Coast to Canada. NewMexico to Texas to Louisiana to Florida to Cuba, Caribbeans, Phillipines, plus They were New Spain and identified by Territory. Mexico 1824 grew from some of these territories after 300 years to become its own nation, Estados Unidos Mexicanos.
The Kingdom of Mexico Territory, central Mexico today and and a few other surrounding territories fought for independence from Spain to become Mexico. Under Mexico's first constitution 1824 Apatzingan , the far north New Spain territories of California, New Mexico/Arizona, Texas were not Mexico. After the final battle with Spain, the 1824 Estados Unidos Mexicanos constitution took California, New Mexico and Texas as part of Mexico under no agreement or Treaty as Spain did not sign over any of her territories to Mexico , the Crown of Spain did not recognize independence and refused to sign the Treaty of Cordova.
New Spains northern tribes as Navaho, Apache, Kiowa, Ute, Chumash, Shasta, Mohave, Piaut, Pueblo, Comanche plus hundreds more never acknowledged Mexico or identified as Mexican. The Spanish Colonial descendants since 1598 were mandated Mexican citizenship in 1598 , under Estados Unidos Mexicanos also known as the Republic of Mexico government, who were those living in the isolated north of New Spain; California, New Mexico, Texas became USA citizens under the Treaty of Hidalgo 1848 and remained in the homeland which became part of the USA. Mexican is not a race, but rather a citizen of Mexico inclusive of many ethnicities and today all native tribes in Mexico are Mexican unlike 500 years ago when only the mexica Aztec were Mexican.
Additionally California, New Mexico and Texas were centuries of thousands of miles of wilderness desert, uninhabitable barren land until Spains explorations in the 16th century. Some Mexican factions falsely claim these were their lands and are reclaiming, but their ancestors were never part of today's USA. It was the Mexican government officials who transplanted north after Mexican independence 1824 -1846, the typical Mexicans did not colonize in CA, NM, TX during the time. There was barely a Mexican living in these areas during the Mexican War, requiring Mexico to bring in troops to the far north to battle Americans. Mexicans began migrating to the border areas with the presence of the USA westward movement, Mexicans establishing border towns about 1880s. Train to El Paso plus the American army quelling the unconquered Indians and placing in reservations and making the wilderness habitable in a desolate land their ancestors never dared to go. Mexico quasi governed CA, NM, TX for barely 25 years. Anything else is making a mountain of a molehill. These were never ancestrally Mexico... It's the USA that brought Chihuahuas, Sinaloans and south of the borderians who since late 1800 only look north...
Don't be fooled. The only Spanish Colonists were first in New Mexico starting in 1598, Texas and California--SW Spanish Colonial Period 1598-1821. During the Mexican Period, 1821-1846 Americans had already settled in California, New Mexico and Texas before the Mexican War. Americans settled Nevada, Utah, Colorado before there was a Mexican in sight. As Mexican were a rarity if any in those states. The Mexican Revolution 1920 brought immigrant Mexicans to California, Colorado, Chicago. They showed up later , about 1950s in Nevada and Utah. The 1970 Immigration Act brought millions, and 1990s illegal open borders brought millions more. Americans need to get a little education on Mexican and American history... Mexicans are late 1800s immigrants to the USA.
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Spain never owned "Mexico". When Cortez landed in Vera Cruz it was unnamed land, not Mexico. That era was Spains explorations and land claimes till about 1560. Territories were since the 1500 to 1800 claimed and governed by Spain and were part of New Spain far and wide. New Spains territories were California to Mississippi region to Florida, Pacific Coast to Canada, today's Mexico, Caribbeans, Cuba, Philippines and not in Mexico. What are today California and the SW, Mexico, Central America were never known by Spain as Mexico for three centuries. Mexico was born in 1821 by independence from Spain. The far north territories of New Spain, California to Texas never were involved in Mexico City's and its surrounding territories political dynamics or battles with Spain. Mexico as an independent nation claimed the wilderness isolated far north but was unable to finance or control these quasi territories which were self governed and very sparely populated with Spanish settlers who were dictated Mexican citizenship after 1821. And high concentrations of unconquered warrior Indians who never recognized Mexico, the new sheriff in town as their sovereign.
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Right... California and SW are not ancestrally Mexico. The folks living in these far northern New Spain outposts, were descendants of Spanish Colonial settlers , very distant and isolated from other parts of New Spain and were mandated Mexican citizenship under the Republic of Mexico's goverenment constitution 1824 Estados Unidos Mexicanos. So one day, back in the day, they were informed by some Mexican transplant government official stranger, they were now Mexican citizens, Spains beloved flag removed, replaced by a Mexican flag. Interestingly under the Apatzingan constitution 1814 California, New Mexico/Arizona, Texas were not Mexico. These New Spain Territories did not participate with Hidalgo and Mexico City's political dynamics or battles against Spain or independence.
"Mexico" is nothing but New Spain lands left over after Spain Treaty'd off Florida and Louisiana before Mexican independence. Spain didn't acknowledge Mexican independence and Spains King refused to sign the Treaty of Cordova. Spain never Treaty'd any lands or had any agreements to transfer any lands to Mexico. Imperial Mexico just grabbed what was available of New Spain in north America, yet was politically unstable with no treasury, since it became a failed monach Empire, all of two years, then a nation Mexico 1824, is late in SW history 1824. Spain still held the waters, Mexico failed to take Cuba.
Anti American movement make a mountain of a molehill over 24 years of the SW Mexican Period , of which Mexico barely made a dent in California and SW, 10 years Texas. These territories were unincorporated to Mexicos main, automous, and the unconquered northern tribes still controlled their indigenous lands in basically a wilderness desert... Mexicans lost the war, no one stole any of their lands as the annexed lands under the Treaty were California and SW and folks there -- the ancient tribes. And Spanish colonists still in the centuries homeland 1598-1821, of the SW Spanish Colonial Period, and welcomed USA citizenship in 1848. No one cried over Mexico. Yet many still loyalists to Spain. Mexicans were not victims, in fact Mexico fired the first shot to become the Mexican War. Mexico had claimed parts of Central America too, Mexicans only look north lol... There's plenty of historical documentation and corrupt anti American indoctrination....
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