Comments by "Kat 1515" (@Kat-fq4ei) on "Johnny Harris"
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You need to read a history book or two... The lands were historically Spains for 300 years. Looks like Mexico had dirty hands as Spain never acknowledged "Mexico" Independence, which became a nation 1824 claimed its lands under its imperial Estados Unidos Mexicanos new constitution. Treaty's were common even prior to 1800s. Spain never treatied any lands over to Mexico. So Mexico made out royally, 25 million dollar transactions, under two Mexico/US treaties for lands Mexico claimed for only 25 years. The lands the USA annexed are not ancestrally Mexico. Mexico was a Johnny come late 1800s to California, New Mexico, Texas. And unwelcome ... Mexican are not in their lands in the USA and are immigrants. Their ancestral roots are in today's Mexico. They began migration to the US border areas after the Mexican War, following USA westward movement many Mexicans look only north. The 1910 Mexican Revolution and trains encouraged migration, much of it illegally. 95% of Mexicans are legal or illegal immigrants as the United States was never their ancestral homeland... California and New Mexico which included Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado; and Texas were provinces of the 1824 Republic of Mexico, the SW Mexican Period for only 25 years... Without historical knowledge on New Spain and it's many territories which were far and wide, disconnected, different histories, geographies, tribes, cultures; SW history can be confusing...
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If not for the USA, Mexicans would have no need for the north, as after centuries, they migrated hundreds of miles from their homeland to northern border areas after the Mexican War, interestingly after the US Army quelled the Apache, Navajo, Kiowa, Comanche 1880s, who had roamed and raided the lands. Mexican came as immigrants to the US about this time, especially during the 1910 Mexican Revolution, fleeing refuge in the US.
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CA n SW were claimed by the young Republic of Mexico for barely 15 to 25 years. All of California to Florida, Cuba today's Mexico, Caribbeans, Central America, Phillipines, plus were separate parts/territories of New Spain, under Spains governance. In fact, under quasi Mexico's first attempt toward independence, its first 1815 constitution, CA, NM/AZ, TX were not included as territories of "Mexico. " These territories were not involved with Mexican independence. They were too far north, another world separated by thousands of miles of primarily uninhabitable desert, and had their own history, Indian tribes, peoples, politics, culture just as other parts of New Spain, far n wide. Under the1821 Mexico constitution, the northern territories were still to distant, isolated, middle of nowhere, unincorporated provinces and self governed. Mexico never settled the far northern wilderness with Mexicans 1821 to 1848. Few Mexicans migrated north after the Mexican/US War, to lands that were USA territories or USA states, mainly along border areas establishing towns along with Anglo Americans. In fact, Americans settled CA, NM/AZ, TX , WY, UT, CO, NV before Mexican migration... Occupied first by Indians ( migrants from Asia, etc), Spain, France. Russia had its claims on CA. Mexico was last and short lived until the USA conquered Mexico and by a legal Treaty, took control of the barren lands between both new American nations, Mexico and the USA. Too much is made over 25 years claimed by unhistorically Mexico. People are ignorant about America, it's diverse tribes,who were never one united people or the established new nations created by European independence after 1776 and it's histories ..
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Actually Spain never recognized Mexican independence. The Crown did not sign the Treaty of Cordova 1821. Under Mexico's first constitution, Apatzingan, CA/AZ, NM, TX were not documented as Mexico. The Territories became part of Mexico under its 1824 constitution, Estados Unidos Mexicanos, the population at that time became Mexican citizens. More like imperialism. ..
Those in CA and SW lands became USA citizens under the Treaty of GH 1848. And the indigenous northern tribes still have much of their lands, sovereign, and protected under US Fed. Law. Additionally, those from Chihuahua, Sinaloa and South of the border were never ancestrally from anywhere USA today. Mexican is not a race or ethnicity, it's a citizenship. Mexicans began migrating north to border areas after USA westward movement approx 1880s. And are immigrants to the USA. These lands for centuries were uninhabitable thousands of miles of wilderness opened up in 1550s by Spains explorations by horse, ships, and European weapons. Stolen lands is nothing but political propaganda...
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That's only if your ancestors were from New Mexico, Texas and California -- the original Spanish Colonial settlers 1598-1821.
And the indigenous from these areas Navaho, Pueblo, Comanche, Mohave, Ute, Caddo, Chumash, Apache, Kiowa, Cheyenne, Arapahoe, Shasta, Kumeyaay, Yumas plus hundreds of USA tribes. These are still where they were 400 years ago before European intervention.
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@oirampeceda2409 interesting Californios, Nuevomexicanos and Tejanos didn't join Hidalgo in his fights for independence, nor did they take part in Mexico City's battles or political dynamics against Spain. The Navaho, Apache, Comanche, Piaut. Pueblo, Mohave, Shasta, Chumash, Kiowa, Ute plus many more northern tribes were not Mexican. They never acknowledged Mexican intruders on their inherent lands up north and never identified as Mexican or fight for Mexican independence. Mexican is not a race, Mexican is a citizenship from the Republic of Mexico as of 1824 under its Estados Unidos Mexicanos constitution.
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Making a mountain of a molehill. These territories were not historically Mexico to begin with. They historically were parts of New Spain which also included Louisiana to Florida, Cuba, Central America, Mexico, Caribbeans, Phillipines, plus. Spains lands . Short lived Mexican citizenship was forced upon California and SW 1824. These territories lost nothing to cry over as they became United States citizens in 1848. As far as the Navaho, Ute, Apache, Comanche, Piaut, Pueblo, Mohave, Shasta, Chumash plus hundreds of other northern tribes, they never recognized Mexico as their sovereign. Actually Mexico lost not only the territory but all of Mexico in its entirety upon United States conquest. Half was returned under the Treaty GH. More of Mexico was purchased after the War, Gadsden Purchase. Yucatan practically begged for USA annexation. Mexico was barely able to control Mexico City, much less the thousand mile away northern wilderness, quasi governed by Mexico in fact they were self governed, Mexico using them abusely to tax the land. Mexicans immigrated to border areas after the War. Never inherently from the Territory. Had it not been for an historical event, 25 years earlier, Mexican independence, the lands would never had been claimed by Mexico. And probably sold off by Spain, as Spain was negotiating with M Austin for American land grant settlements in Texas before Mexican independence... interesting also how Mexicans only look north, ignoring resource rich parts of Central America once territories of the Mexican republic. These upper latitude territories, too much land for Spain to control, were destined for the US as colonies and territories became nations two and three hundred years after early European colonization. In fact, as with all of New Spain, the cultures, history, peoples, tribes, and geography were separate and different including the separated and isolated far north up to over a thousand miles away, tierras nuevas; foreign Mexicans unwelcome 1824 and any Mexican patriotism was gone with American citizenship 1848.
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SAMUEL JESSE Spain did not claim north "Mexico" because during the Spanish Colonial Era, Mexico did not exist. All were separate explorations spanning over half a century to become different territories of New Spain and identified by separate locations within New Spain. Mexico is not even charted in old maps, yet California, New Mexico and Texas are. Spain claimed Mexico City and added surrounding territories to New Spain, later reaching Zacatecas and conquering those Indians, continued exploring far flung lands as California, Texas, New Mexico and claimed as more territories to "New Spain" . When Spain lost all of these territories, Mexico gained independence from Spain and it's goverenment claimed what formerly had been New Spain. At that time the northern territories became part of Mexico. You are conflating Spain with Mexico, different eras, different system of goverenment, Spain had it all strength, an Empire,, a monarch, money; Mexico did not. Earlier the united States became it's own country by independence and was not obligated to the British motherland, the United States was free to go to do as it wished. At the time of US Independence 1776, the United States recognized Texas, New Mexico and California as territories of Spain, later in 1821 the US recognized these as territories of the young nation of Mexico. Nevertheless Mexico lost the 45% territories within a quarter of a century. They were so far reaching from Mexico, Russia and England were out to claim them also. They were lands out in the wilderness, close to nowhere when Spain explored and claimed, and still were in 1848. France or England would have done the same, but Spain beat them to these lands. 300 years later ending up in Mexico's newly gained domain, unable to control even it's internal affairs much less was able to control the far reaching isolated frontier wilderness. Conquered by legal rights to a neighbor nation that was able to defeat the Indians and settle lands with them, and develop the 45% lands to good use and make them part of a great nation. Mexico did not conquer the SW Indians in a 25 year period, the United States conquered within 20 year's. One can only speculate what Mexico, with it's inept corrupt goverenment, failing it's citizens would have done with an isolated wilderness, the unconquered Indians themselves were plenty trouble and Mexico if by any smarts would have sold to the United States or Russia. Had the United States kept all of Mexico instead of giving parts back, Mexicans would have little to cry over, but not all Mexicans are crying, it's particular factions making all the noise.
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@GiligamerMC The lands Mexico lost by United States conquest was not historically Mexico or Mexican lands. Mexico only claimed the lands because of independence from Spain, so Mexico was not even in the picture until 300 years after Spanish exploration and claims to Spanish territories. Had Spain sold the upper latitude northern lands to the United States prior to Mexican independence, Mexico never would have claimed the lands. Spain had already agreed to allow Anglo American land grant settlers to Texas prior to independence. As it was, after 25 years under Mexico, Mexico never bothered to conquer the Navajo, Apache, Comanche, Yaqui who basically controlled the territories. There was no lost love over sold territories back in 1848, but alot of money was made by Mexico over the purchase who was pretty fortunate that Spain had abdicated the territories. There weren't even Mexican populations in the annexed territories, they were all over in what is Mexico today. Basically the United States military had no one to fight the battles in the northern annexed territories, Mexicans were not from CA, AZ, NM, TX. They came much later after conquest of the Indians and better living conditions in a harsh environment to unpopulated border areas and migrated further north later for jobs.
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@HSSANITO The populations were not inherently "Mexican" , they became Mexican citizens under the new nation of Mexico 1824, Estados Unidos Mexicanos under their new Constistution. Every citizen in the SW whether Indian, Anglo or of Spanish or French or any other european descent became Mexican citizens under the new flag of Mexico's Republic whether or not they claimed patriotism to Mexico which was a problem for the Mexican goverenment the further away the territories were from Mexico City including Guatemala which also had been claimed by Mexico. Almost as quickly as SW territories became Mexican citizens 1824-1848, they then became US American citizens after the Mexican War. Hispanic is a 1960s US Census Bureau classification under President Nixons Administration "Hispanic" promoted by California Mexican American immigrant bureaucrats; and Chicano began as a Los Angeles Mexican American immigrant group stemming from the political racist Brown Berets movement in the 1960s. It was Mexico who crossed the borders as the SW lands were inherent to the northern latitude Indians tribes who still controlled the lands in the 1800s , today protected by United States law and members of sovereign nations within the US. These Indians never accepted Mexico as their country. Today there are just pockets of the sparse Spanish populations inherent to the SW prior to 1821 in fact the only non immigrant of Spanish ancestry in the United States other than Florida or Mississippi areas. These did not migrate or go through the immigration process, crossed no borders, no green cards. Families in the United States for hundreds of years. Opposed to Mexican Americans who migrated to the United States after the Mexican War , starting by establising towns in border areas after 1880, later the Mexican Revolution brought in waves of Mexicans, the Immigration Reform Act in later decades and more recent disregard for US rule of law and open borders.
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