Comments by "Kat 1515" (@Kat-fq4ei) on "Johnny Harris"
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@Duquedecastro There was no Mexican law in 1820, simply because there was no Mexico until independence. Spain was a monarchy and different governing system from Mexico. Same as Great Britain and the USA. Both American new nations were no longer under control or laws of the motherland.
Odd you refer to J Piedras as his position was military and at odds with Santa Ana and other Mexicans officials, but Mexico was not a united government. Nevertheless there are Texas Land Grant maps 1824-1836 which document Anglo American land grant owners in Texas. Look them up...
Prior to Mexican independence, Spaniard Antonio Maria Martinez, born in Spain, assumed political and governorship of Spanish Texas 1817. Spains monach was concerned over Canary Island Spanish Colonial settlers in distant, isolated , wilderness Tejas New Spain which was sparsely populated, settlers lived in dangerous conditions because of warrior Comanche relentlessly attacking settlers with no protection. Spain projected Texas American settlers under land grants to populate the Territory. Gov Martinez approved Moses Austin for permission to bring 300 settlers to Spanish Texas by specific criteria under Spain.
After Mexican independence 1821, Martinez allegiance was to then to Mexican Emperor Interbide, who signed the first permit for settlements of Americans in Texas under Austin's colony. Followed by the Texas legislature passing a law conforming Interbides Act by his congress including laws of acreage granted to settlers, Texas was enormous wilderness territory and hundreds of acres were granted to land grant settlers. . Mexico later enacted the General Colonization Act 1824 to increase acquisition of lands in TX, regardless of race, religion, immigrant status. Santa Ana later ripped the constitution, Mexico was without directives and this lead to conflicts between Texans and Mexican inconsistent governance. American settlers in Mexico was legal, it's documented by land grant owners and Mexican law. During the 25 years SW Mexican Period, Americans Increasingly outnumbered Mexicans.
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@Duquedecastro First of all, Mexicans are Citizens from Mexico. Mexico is not an ancient nation, its only 200 years old. What is Mexico today is returned land to Mexico after the Mexican War under the Treaty of GH by USA. The War took place 25 years after independence. Had there been no independence from Spain, there would be no Mexican War or no Mexico today. Mexico is nothing but a nation, the result of historical events. SW history is approx 225 years Spanish Colonial Period 1598-1821 7 under Spains laws and flag; 25 years Mexican Period and 175 USA citizens.
You are totally wrong. Your ancestor was not Mexican and never founded Santa Fe in 1598 as in 1598 there was no Santa Fe. Oñate, founder of NM colonized San Gabriel in 1598, among the San Juan Pueblo Indians, San Gabriel is the first capital of the USA. Santa Fe was founded 1610 a few miles south of San Gabriel by Gov Peralta. Both Oñate and Peralta were Spaniards. Oñates letter to the viceroy referred to "Mexico City" as New Spain, not Mexico according to the document. California was founded by J Serra 1776, another Spaniard and his friars also came from European Spain and never identified as Mexican. European Spain did the explorations, land claims (New Spain Territories), Spains European ships, Spains horses, Spain weapons, Spains purse. The Spanish Colonial Period was governed by Spains king by Spains viceroy in Mexico City. New Spain was controlled by Spain----government, explorations, Catholicism, Spanish language, political climate, European buildings, Spanish influence. In fact had Spain not claimed what is Mexico today 300 years ago, there would be no Mexico as it was Spain who renamed Tenochtitlan "Mexico City" for the mexica Aztec tribes, central Mexico today and home to the mexica tribes. Spain made Mexico City the seat of Spains viceroy--the kings representative, Mexico City the most important city in New Spain, Spanish influenced, governing all New Spains many Territories far and wide. The caste system in New Spain was Peninsulares, crillos, mestizo, Indio, mulatto. But no Mexican. Even genealogical Church records do not document Mexico or Mexican, they document Spain or New Spain, Español, mestizo or indio. "Mexico " arrived in the SW late in history, not until 1824, Mexican Period. Hardly ancestral. Mexicans are nothing ancestral in SW. In fact the Mexican government bribed those from south of today's borders with land grants to settle in SW during the Mexican Period after 1824. And not many came. Anglo Americans were settlers just after Mexican independence so they are as ancestral as Mexicans, in fact they were Mexican citizens during the 25 years Mexican Period... It took three centuries for the Republic of Mexico to grow out of Spains Mexico City... The SW Spanish Period Colonial settlers were a different peoples, up to over a thousand miles away from those Sonorans and Sinaloans--the latter were not rooted in today's SW. SW peoples remained in the ancestral homeland under the Treaty of Hidalgo to become US citizens. You conflate Spain with Mexico, Spanish with Mexican, and have no sense of SW historical Periods. The history is documented in volumes of records archived in Spain, Mexico City and Santa Fe...
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Right, Mexico was not even Mexico 25 years prior the Mexican War, the GH Treaty, Border or annexed lands. The United States was not the USA until 1776. They had been lands claimed by Spain, Great Britain and France. Prior they were lands occupied by many nomadic native tribes who were never united. The lands became nations after revolutions, independence. Add on land disputes, treaties, annexed borders, purchases. Mexico is nothing special, they lost some of the land they barely claimed to War. In fact, the United States could have taken all of Mexico had the US wanted it, Yucatan begging for annexation. Five years later Mexico under the US Gadson Purchase got another ten million dollars for additional land. Centuries of human nature dictates the victor takes the spoils, it's an innate law, written in our DNA. Hawaii had always been Hawaii, Hawaiians always Hawaiians. On the other hand California and the SW were not historically Mexico. In fact the northern native tribes as Navajo, Ute, Caddo, Shasta, Chumash, Piaute, Kiowa , Comanche , Mohave, Pueblo plus hundreds more, never did and still don't know themselves to be Mexican or their indigenous lands to be Mexico. And still live in their USA lands. It's really strange how Mexicans who never had roots in California, New Mexico, Texas cry over stolen lands while the indigenous to what is today the US never cry over Mexico. 25 years was nothing to these tribes, in fact they were still unconquered tribes who basically still controlled the land back in most the 1800s. Until Kit Carson gottem...
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@adantorres8056 Then why didn't the Mexicans and their powers that be get the land right back. It's because the United States conquered ALL OF MEXICO AT WAR, occupied it's capital, Mexico City with the US 🇺🇸 flying over it. But the United States only wanted the out in the middle of nowhere, far north, connected to the United States Mexico knew that the victor takes the spoils. Mexico is nothing special in the world, rules of victory are inherent to nature, pendejo.... Mexico was forutunate that the United States negotiated and returned half of Mexico. The Mexican government was only too glad to get 15 million dollars out of the deal because it was pitifully in serious debt and gobbled up the money and five years later Mexico, with not a rifle in sight, negotiated the Gadson Purchase for another 10 million dollars. Additionally Mexico was barely a baby nation in 1846, just off the bottle, trying to act like the big guy which it was far from.... In fact Europe still had it's hands in young Mexico until the 1860s never even touching the now part of the United States California and the SW which were not even historically Mexico. As far as that goes Florida to Louisiana had been Spains possessions also. What was so illegal about losing a war.....and signing a Treaty. That's like saying Mexico illegally stole from Spain. Some Mexicans have dumb excuses.
THE LANDS BELONGED TO SPAIN for 300 years, who was Mexico, nobody but a Jonny come late. Barely claimed a distant unincorporated foreign land for a blink of the eye, all of 25 years. Boo hoo. History 101. Whoever influenced you to believe wars and treaties were illegal back in 1848 are out of their minds.
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@BrandonPerez-ob7hs Actually the Aztec are from "Mexico City" area, or valley of Mexico, land of the mexica Aztec. As Spain named it. . What is Mexico today is comprised of many Indian tribes, not only Aztec. Having been enemy tribes before Spain ever set foot in the territories which went by different names depending on the area. Furthermore the Comanche, Navajo, Apache, Ute, Yaqui, Shasta, Mohave and hundreds of different tribes were indigeniuos to the north territories. They were enemy tribes and did not accept Mexico as their sovereign in 1824 or anytime after or before. . The Comanche wiped out Chihuahua and U.S. Indians do not accept Mexican Indians or SW lands as Mexico, today or centuries ago.
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@BrandonPerez-ob7hs You are totally forgetting that Spain made many explorations during different decades encompassing at least 50 years - Cuba, Caribbeans, Florida, Mississippi areas, Vera Cruz, Mexico City,. Later the Sea of Cortez, then towards Zacatecas. Conquering the many different indians. And opening the way to the north, las tierras nuevas, new lands, New Mexico/Arizona, Texas. Pacific coast California to Canada. All different territories getting added to New Spain as they were claimed by Spain, threatened by France, Russia, Great Brittan. The territories as Spain found them were disconnected and very far, different Indians, geographies, and were not under one nation. Mexico just claimed the distant California, New Mexico and Texas after the war with Spain. Had Mexico not gained independence from Spain, Mexico would not have claimed the territories. Had Spain sold the northern territories as it did Florida, California, New Mexico and Texas would never have been claimed by Mexico..As it was Spain no longer had the finances to support the northern wilderness territories and Spain was ready to give land grants in Texas to Americans through M Austin. In fact, Americans had began settling and trading as early as 1821 in California and New Mexico. Before Mexicans, who did not migrate north to establish border towns after 1880.
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@BrandonPerez-ob7hs Mexican officials were unwelcome in California and New Mexico, Texas considered estranjeros. The other northern territories claimed by Spain were never colonized by Spain. Revolts were ignited with the new comer. Mexico was presented with patriotic issues. The original SW Colonial settlers sided with Americans pursuing independence from Mexico, attained under the Treaty. . New Mexican Spanish Colonists refused to ally with the Mexican military to fight the Comanche. The far north territories Colonists were not a part of Mexican independence or wars with Spain, had their own geography, politics, history and culture. And the SW Indians really had trespassing issues with Mexico, these lands were indigeniuos to the Apache, Navajo, Ute, Yaqui Comanche plus hundreds more northern tribes. It's just that one day, after 1824, Mexican officials came to the far isolated north to remove Spains flag and replace with Mexicos flag, no wonder they were estranjeros, strangers in foreign land. It was short lived though. Mexico was gone with the blink of an eye as history documents. 21st C Mexican Revision history is just that. Spains writing of the era are well documented. So is SW history. You are just going around in circles trying to give Mexico great prominence in what is today the United States. Didn't happen according to history. Mexico was just a 25 year miniscule part in SW history in which it did nothing for and allowed self goverenment and unconquered Indians who had the real control over the territory. Why do you think Spain was unable to colonize the far north uninhabitable wilderness, it was the Comanche, Navajo, Apache, Ute feared by Spain, and later Americans and Mexicans. Dream on and have a great day. 😁
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@BrandonPerez-ob7hs It's common knowledge that Mexico gained independence from Spain. It's not common knowledge that regarding the annexed SW, the territories were claimed by Mexico for only 25 years, and were not historically Mexican lands. As far as speculation that the territories would still be in Mexico if not for the war, that's neither here or there. The SW population was not patriotic, wanting independence from Mexico just as Central America. They were too far away from Mexicos core, Mexico City. And the SW colonist population did not relate to Mexico having a different geography, history, politics, culture, including the indigeniuos population. Many are not aware that during SW Spanish Colonial era, travel was rare maybe once a year basically for official business, so there was no contact with the outside world. Spanish rules were very strict, permission required, everything documented. There was no mestizo culture as the non raiding Indians lived separate from the Spanish and did not merge cultures as in Latin America. What if's is not history. Neither is wishful thinking...
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@Tita-n1z The only Mexicans were the mexica Aztec in Tenochtitlan renamed Mexico City by Spain after the mexica Indians. Surrounded by tribes who were not "mexica." Mexica Aztec lands were approx 350 Sq miles, the extent of Montezumas empire. The Spanish upon explorations knew the different tribes and back in the 1500s it was only the mexica referred to by the Spaniard as "mexica" derived from an indigenous tongue, and "nos" derived from the Spanish tongue, in reference to those "mexica-nos" from the valley of Mexica/Mexico, in Mexico "City's" district. All lands claimed by Mexican independence 300 years later 1824 became the Republic of Mexico, under its Estados Unidos Mexicanos constitution, its peoples were mandated Mexican citizenship. Those peoples from the SW homeland, descendants of Spanish Colonial settlers, became USA citizens after 1848 under the Treaty of G Hidalgo. As far as SW Indians they inherently never identified as Mexican. The Apache were perplexed at the USA paying millions to Mexico for lands that they innately knew were not Mexico. Today's USA tribes in California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Oklahoma never knew themselves as Mexican or mestizo, they were still unconquered far northern tribes during the 1824-1848 SW Mexican Period and Mexico never controlled them. The tribes in Mexico are Mexican as they are today citizens of today's Mexico. It's just a matter if following history. The young independent Mexico claimed the SW for only 25 years... SW ancestral citizens, be they natives or Spanish America never cried over Mexico's loss to the USA. Mexico arrived in today's SW after1824, generally Mexican officials not necessarily welcome. Gone by 1848 and any few years of Mexican patriotism waned after that Period. Mexicans began migration to the northern border areas approx 1880 with USA westward movement and their ancestors were not ancestrally from anywhere USA. 25 years is making a mountain of a molehill. The Republic of Mexico didn't support the unincorporated SW provinces, yet collected high taxes. Mexico quasi governed the population which basically was automous many seeking independence from Mexico. The USA subjugated the Indians placed in reservations, approx 1880 becoming USA citizens. It's all a matter of historical events on indigenous lands of the many tribes in today's USA and Mexico and even Canada which became nations on disputed lands involving Great Britain, Spain, Russia, France; and later the USA, Canada, Mexico after they become independent nations. The history is European explorations, land claims, land disputes, land transfers, battles, wars, conquests, treaties, purchases, independence, border changes... Who is Mexico anyway, Russia had claims on California and France had claims on Texas, Spain on all the SW, 100's of years before there was a Mexico who was a Johnnie come very late in American history...
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@Tita-n1z Read history books, and generations before myself in New Mexico, there were folks who were born under the flag of Spain, lived under the Mexican flag and died under the USA flag. After Spains governance, they were notified they were Mexican by replacing Spains flag with Mexicos. 25 years later they were notified they were US citizens, a new USA flag..... Same in California; and in Texas they had already been under Republic of Texas. Other than documented historical records, there are actual Catholic Church genealogical records documenting New Spains folks as born, died, married in Spain or New Spain, not Mexico. They were Español, mestizo or indio, not Mexican recorded by priests. Unless you can debunk you are just making lame excuses. There is a plethora or historically evidence without living at that time... And there is actual living history with the SW tribes who do not know themselves Mexican or mestizo, a living testimont to their innate lands, which was not Mexico. There are SW Spanish Americans who don't know themselves Mexican American. 25 years does not make a Mexican which is not a race...
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@Nigiteon Perhaps you are unaware that Mexico started the war in spite of being an unstable country, was a young nation 1824 with nationistic problems in the isolated distant northern territories, the same territories that were lost to the U.S. . The United States a much stronger nation conquered all of Mexico, occupied Mexico City and was good enough to give back to what is Mexico today, the core and heartland. In turn the United States paid for 700,000 sq miles of basically unpopulated frontier wilderness which Mexico was unable to control. Furthermore these lands were not historically Mexico, Mexico claimed only since 1824 by a stroke of luck, so the lands were not inherently Mexican or the homeland. But they were the homeland to SW Indians who considered Mexico a trespasser on their lands. . They were worthless lands in 1848 when negotiations were made with the United States, Mexico did not develop, no infrastructure, no conquering the native Indians tribes. The small Spanish Colonial population living in these isolated territories were not patriotic, many seeking independence and siding with Americans. The United States developed these lands and made them what they are today, and now some Mexican factions want to claim as stolen lands, yet they had been foreign lands to them in 1848. These only look north, never south as Guatemala had once been Mexico. Go figure.
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You're not recovering your lands. It's USA corrupt politicians open borders. Not only to Mexicans, but to people all over the world...
The lands originally were claimed by Navaho, Apache, Comanche, Piaut, Kiowa, Caddo, Chumash, Shasta, Shoshone, Ute, Pueblo, Mohave plus many more northern tribes who spoke their own indigenous tongues. Cannot recover what was never yours...... The Spanish names came from Spain. These USA lands were part of New Spain. Which had nothing to do with Mexico except for 25 years.
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@robertlowther6979 Because historically Mexico became a nation not until 1824. Under this new nations newly created Constitution of los Estados Unidos Mexicanos the citizens now became Mexican regardless of DNA. Under New Spains caste system there was no Mexican or Mexico, the population were Peninsulares/Espanoles, Criollos (American born Spaniards), Mestizo, Indian, mulatto. The new era after 1824 was Mexican, the new Republic, Mexico named after Mexico City. Mexico City was named by Spain after 1524 for the mexica Aztec tribe, as Tenochititlan/Mexico City was located in Aztec territory or valley of mexica. Not all of those tribes in New Spains territories which are in today's Mexico were mexica Indians, there were many tribes, as well as many territories, under Spains empire. Mexicans are people from the Republic of Mexico inclusive of many ethnicity's. Thus the Aztec territory was not stolen by Mexicans. Historically correct is that Aztec territory was conquered by European Spain with the help of tribes enemy to the Aztec . Conquest was a standard accepted consequence of war for centuries in human history and we all are descendants of both victims and victors at some point in history. History through out the world is captivity, slavery, rape, occupancy, abuse of all kinds. That was the 16th century.
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Actually the mexican government is quite aware that Mexico lost the Mexican War, what is today Mexico is lands returned to Mexico under the Treaty of Hidalgo and a nother Treaty, Gadsden Purchase, totaling 25 million dollars tran sactions Mexico received 1848-1853. Mexico stole the lands from Spain as Spain did not surrender or accept Mexico conquest and Spains King did not ever sign the Treaty of Cordova. California, New Mexico/Arizona were not Mexico under the 1814 Apatzingan constitution and they never joined revolutions against Spain or did they join Mexico City in political issues or battles against Spain. So stop crying, there was no Mexico until 1824, and just barely. The SW was quasi claimed by Mexico under its 1824 constitution. A troubled republic with no finances, no power, ragged soldiers, barely a government with Mexico itself ripping up the constitution. If not for the USA where would Mexicans run for refuge, to Russia LOL....
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Right, it was Mexico's loss of land by conquest, US westward movement, United States placing unconquered warrior tribes in reservations that brought Mexican migration approx 1880s to border areas which was thousands of miles of wilderness with raiding Indians for centuries. They set up border towns in these areas along with other strangers to the land, Anglo Americans. Coming further north into the United States with trains and the 1910 Mexican Revolution. Since then Mexicans only look north to the USA for its prosperity. No mention ever of loss to their south who are culturally and historically connected.
Spain never acknowledged Mexican independence and Spains King refused to sign the Treaty of Cordova so Spain never transferred any lands to Mexico under any treaty. Mexico paid zero for the lands. Mexico declared lands under its 1824 Estados Unidos Mexicanos constitution which listed the states and provinces it claimed. Interestingly, 1814 Mexico's first attempt to independence, under its Apatzingan constitution, California, New Mexico which included Arizona, and Texas were not Mexico. These New Spain far north isolated territories never joined Hidalgo or Mexico City, today's central Mexico in the political dynamics or battles against Spain for independence. Mexico was unable to claim Cuba and its waters against Spain. Historically it was Tenochtitlan, renamed Mexico City by Spain, after the mexica Aztec in the valley of Mexico, which was the extent of anywhere Mexico. All of today's Mexico was indigenous lands with hundreds indigenous names and tribes who were not mexica or from Mexico City. The many territories, which were far and wide, were referred to as New Spain, not Mexico after European colonization.
The SW population were mandated Mexican citizenship along with any Anglo American living in those provinces during the twenty five years SW Mexican Period. Indians remained unconquered and bitter enemies to Mexico. During this Period, it was basically Mexican officials who transplanted north, not necessarily welcome and Mexican patriotism was an issue. This population was granted USA citizenship under the Treaty of GH and remained in the centuries homeland. Any patriotism waned and nothing lost over Mexico...
Mexico was part of 25 million dollars transactions under the Treaties of GH and Gadsden Purchase. Mexico's government has no issue with loss of lands it claimed for 25 years. Mexico offered nothing but high taxes to its unincorporated northern provinces. Gladly took the 25 million it desperately needed and sends us their neglected poor. So Mexico's government made out royally on real-estate it took from Spain 25 years earlier. It is Mexican factions like radical left wing immigrant Mexican organizations such as Chicano Study professors, League of United Latin Americans Citizens, Mexican support groups who indoctinate and push stolen lands. And cancel culture anti American propagandists are in the mix. Mexican education too, presents a slanted version, but its citizens are culturally different historically from SW Spanish colonists. Obviously nothing stolen, the lands belonged to Navaho, Apache, Comanche, Piaut, Shasta, Chumash, Mohave, Pueblo Ute and hundreds of northern tribes which Mexico had no claim to these lands until 1824. Lost by conquest to the USA... There had been SW citizens up to at least half a century ago who lived and died under three flags--Spain, and notified of their new citizenship under the Mexican and United States flags...
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