Comments by "Luredreier" (@Luredreier) on "TLDR News EU"
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@Showwieh No.
Not northwest, or northeast or anything, just *north*.
Countries like Scotland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Estonia shouldn't be grouped together with the likes of Germany or Spain.
Our climate is different, our culture is different and our history is different.
And as a result so is our values.
Don't get me wrong, we have a lot in common with Germany in the those of the nordic countries that has germanic languages.
But ultimately we've been both blessed and cursed with having a totally different geo-political climate to operate in.
Different challenges to face.
And while technically we do end up landing in the "west" when forced into a system that only divides into those two, east and west.
It's outright offensive to be labeled in the same group as the continentals.
The continentals can rely on food security due to the agriculture on the European plains and overland trade with nations on those planes.
Because of that food they have a history of empires with high enough populations to be capable of defending themselves in a way that north european nations could only dream of.
And a cultural unity that just doesn't exist here.
They had resources we couldn't muster.
Large cities.
Feudalism.
Professional armies.
All of those things.
It didn't really work the same way up here.
I mean, sure, Denmark and Sweden each tried to make empires at various times.
But neither ever had the populations to trully back up those attempts.
And we always where the underdogs vs our much larger neighbours.
Russia, England, the HRE and France.
Scotland, Norway and Sweden had rugged terrain that we used to our advantage in wars.
Norway, Sweden and Denmark all relied on our navies to try to hold our own.
In Denmarks case to land troops behind invading armies once those push too far north, cutting off supplies.
And all of us have tons and tons of islands to defend.
Parts of Scotland together with Iceland, the Faero islands, Finland and Estonia where essentially colonies of the nordic region for a long, long time and spent so much time under our rule that we left our mark there.
There's just so much...
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Proportional representation would help with this issue.
My suggestion is this.
Make the island ruled by a parliament elected through multiple multi member constituencies.
Distribute seats between the constituencies based on how many of each ethnic groups is there.
So donone round of granting seats based on the French population, one round for the Asian and Oceanian immigrant population and one round for the Native population.
Give the natives more seats to distribute this way, but don't make any of these seats exclusive to any ethnic group.
This way more people from areas with a large native population will be represented regardless of how many immigrants or French people might move in, and everyone of each group has a vote even if they might have less influence depending on where they live, if they live in a area with a native majority their vote is just as important as that of the natives.
Then add leveling seats for each constituency.
These helps correct the difference between how many seats a party gets from the various constituencies, how many votes a political party gets at a national level and how many sests rhey would have gotten at a national level.
Again this benefits the native population in the sense that they get more seats populated with their ethnic group, but it also makes the votes of the overall population matter more im terms of the balance between the political parties.
Remove the electoral threshold for the individual constituencies, but keep it for the leveling seats.
With multimember constituencies and proportional representation you also split up the voter blocks, making it less ethnicly focused.
As people voting for smaller parties either reprinting a ethnicity or just the population at large will get more representation, leaving the big ethnicity focused parties weaker, and giving more room for coalition negotiations across ethnic lines...
It gives both ethnic groups more room to get someone from the other ethnic groups over on their side in the parliament.
Pick a representative to the French parliament by making the local parliament elect them, meaning that even parties not big enough to get into the French parliament will be involved in picking who is sent.
And kick the can down the street when it comes to independence 40 years.
Add a renegotiation about the number of seats between the ethnic groups 20 years down the line within the Parliament, meaning that natives in theory can get more say in how they're distributed then.
And give everyone who has lived on the island for 10 years or more voting rights on the island, if they apply for it (think citizenship).
Then automatically from then on.
Gives more immigrants a say in matters too.
People will be able to move around to influence what constituency has the most seats and the ethnic makeup of the area.
And political parties can appeal to a certain ethnic group or to multiple ethnic groups or the whole population depending on what they wish to do.
But with the coalitions and cooperation of a parliamentarian system it should hopefully make peoples identity leas connected to voting patterns.
Oh, and in independence referendums and other referendums every vote is equal.
Make constitutional changes require a referendum.
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@hansheinrich958 A break up of the union into smaller pieces is perfectly fine.
As a liberitarian I don't believe that the end goal should be a fixed political status but rather a dynamic everchanging status with different paterns emerging as the needs of the region changes.
Yes, I want nations in the region in general to move in a more liberitarian direction on the whole with more freedom for the individuals and the societies.
But enforcing that would be wrong and counter to such liberitarian values.
If you truly believe in freedom and peoples right to self determination you need to value the freedom and right to self determination of those who don't like or want it too unfortunatly...
Be that economic freedom of social freedom.
The political freedom one is a bit tougher since removing it removes the dynamism and ability to increase freedom that we value...
But Eastern Europe must want said freedom themselves, we can't force it on them.
Get my meaning?
So back to the union.
If the eastern nation want trade without other aspects of the union we should respect that.
The region has been subject to a lot of warfare through the ages, and there's been a need for a centralized political structure to ensure that nations in the area wasn't swallowed by nearby powers.
While we in the west for the most part had at least some natural barriers defending us.
Germany was a bit of an exception, but having the Holy Roman Empire protecting the member states the smaller member nations ended up having quite a bit of freedom that nations further east just didn't have the luxury of.
Likewise mountain nations had to deal with hard conditions with little interaction with the outside world, be that outside rulers or trade or anything else, encouraging self reliance and people helping eachother by sharing resources and treating eachothers as equals, because quite frankly any of us could end up subject to a avalanch or rock slide or flood or storm at sea or whatever and might need shelter and food and help from eachother...
The whole strong leader thing just didn't hold water in such conditions.
The viking era kings didn't even have a single capital in Norway, they literally had to travel along the coast from royal farm to royal farm to hear cases because expecting people to travel to some kind of capital was just downright insane and you needed to be local in some way to have any kind of power locally.
The Swiz and us both followed the old germanic traditions of having local councils where people could bring up issues, create laws etc.
And even when we here in Norway had kings those where elected in such councils on a region by region basis and said councils remained important even under the kings, retaining a lot of power.
Kings where developed from kind of "chiefs" I guess...
Kind of hard to explain this in English...
The Norwegian word is "høvding".
But basically the germanic tradition was someone being first among equals.
The warriors choosing one among them to lead the tribe who wasn't some "God anointed supreme being" but rather just a regular warrior that just happened to be respected enough to be in charge for the time being for whatever task was at hand.
If they no longer did a good job someone else would be choosen.
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@hansheinrich958 My point is, we can only grow together if we allow people to choose not to do so.
With a really, really decentralized approach like a confederate structure we here in Norway may one day join the EU, but we'll never feel comfortable with staying and it's always going to be a lot of backwards and forwards on that topic.
The only way we'll ever be able to join is if A the power comes from the bottom up meaning from the states rather then from a central entity, said central entity can be given power from a local level but said power needs to be revokable and the powers needs to be opt-in.
And B we need a way out, or we'll never want to join to begin with.
We are not the same peoples as the Germans, related language or not.
You guys are used to completely different conditions, you're used to having to band together against external enemies due to living on the flatlands and living conditions where relatively speaking easier in Germany then in mountain nations like Norway or Switzerland since you actually have proper farmlands in most of your territory.
Your main enemies where other people.
Ours where nature itself and the changing conditions that kept popping up.
We barely consider people in a different valley the same people as ourselves and certainly are not going to let those outsiders of the different valleys dictate how we live our lives, so how on earth would we ever be able to settle down and let people who don't even live in mountains rule over us?
Germans have also been exposed to centralized goverment since the time of the Romans since you bordered them, you had the Frankish empire, the Holy Roman Empire, the German Empire, the Austro-Hungarian Empire...
For you the idea of somehow having the same goverment as someone who you can't go and face on a daily basis doesn't seem as batshit crazy as it does to us.
And similar cultural differences exists all over the continent.
Trying to shoehorn everyone into the same exact goverment just does not work.
And trying will not lead to peace.
The main reason that the EU has managed to promote peace so far is exactly because it isn't unified in that way, because it is fairly bottom up in its power structure still.
Although I would argue that it isn't bottom up enough and is becomming more and more top heavy...
There's a lot of people who want more cooperation, including me.
But more cooperation will only happen in a framework where people make the choice to take part in said cooperation at a local level.
And have the option to opt in and out at *will*.
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