Comments by "" (@bdinaz) on "Biographics" channel.

  1. This is an apocryphal story the tell in Mexico to try and justify his actions. But usually the story goes that it was the local merchant who sold him faulty ammunition. Neither of which were ever alluded to at the time, nor is any paper trail available on either side of the border in any contemporary accounts.
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  2.  @greenllama2856  Once again I gotta stress that the US Army does not sell ammunition. Contractors might... The traditional unproven story is that a merchant in Columbus. Possibly one of the Ravell Brothers was the person who Villa was angry at. But no proof exists to this day.
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  3.  @Pacific-qu7en  history is different than Mexican Tall tales.
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  4.  @ratherbewargaming3753  the US story is based on documentation. The Mexican telling of apocryphal Villa stories is based on inflated tales told around campfires for 100 years. Much wishing would make it so going on.
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  5.  @Pacific-qu7en  culturally the truth must be valued before it is accurately collected, analyzed, and processed. In the US army they have traditionally done so in after action reports (AAR) going back with limited exceptions to the founding of the nation. That is done to improve performance and decrease unnecessary casualties. sometimes these reports prove very embarrassing but without them learning cannot occur. I see no such desires on the parts of the Villista or Carrancista Armies who did not seemingly mind huge losses of casualties on the battlefield. Thus accurate information out of them was second to saving face. Hence the peculiar apocryphal stories that spring from the revolution... "VILLA captured and executed hundreds of US soldiers" "Villa lured US airplanes by wearing Carrancistas uniforms and having them land." "Villa put horseshoes on backwards to disguise direction of travel" And "Villa captured US soldiers and sent them back mercifully with only their ears cut off." Every single US casualty is well documented in the AAR's. But no such effort was undertaken on the Villista/carrancista side as it was not valued information.
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  6.  @ratherbewargaming3753  Please find a contemporaneous account from a Villista Officer or enlisted man in which they have written home and said that they had been cheated in a weapons purchase in Columbus. Key is the document must be written prior to lets say April 1st 1916.
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  7.  @kissthesky9969  once again I ask for proof beyond the apocryphal myths spouted around mexican campfires for the past 100 years. A bill of sale... A contemporaneous letter from a Villa associate at the time to someone else. Etc......
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  8.  @MR-nl8xr  hell, Columbus resides In the tract of land willingly sold by the Mexicans to the US in the Gadsden purchase lo ng after the war.
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  9.  @dariomendoza1518  please prove it. Invoices?
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  10.  @jorgenajar9407  the facts ARE well known. Military AAR's, court records of the testimony of the seven captured Villistas who were tried in Deming, and the interviews conducted with the kidnapped woman from the Mormon Colonia who observed from Cootes Hill, coupled with later testimony in the Silver City trials of later captured raiders gives us a very full picture of what happened. All of it establishes that much like Villas debacle at Hermosillo, villa intended to allow his troops to loot, rape, murder, and burn their way across Columbus. And having not learned from that embarassment the previous year, he got his forces ass kicked.
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  11.  @spacemarinechaplain9367  I think it is a cultural thing extending from Mexico's lifetime history of graft amongst its leaders and supplication from its base population. The base controls nothing in Mexico, including its history. Nor does an accurate telling benefit them. So the base creates aural legends hat does benefit them. Thus Pancho Villa becomes a Saint to the base regardless of how shabilly he treated the common base of Mexico. The base NEEDS a hero, and all they got is Pancho.
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  12.  @ricardoserrano565  really? You have proof that the Ravel Brothers sold ammunition and weapons to Villa? I would love to see that. A receipt will do. Or even a contemporaneous account by one of Villas deputies written prior to 1924 will also suffice. The gentleman who has provided the definitive account of Villas arms and ammunition purchases as well as other logistical purchases couldn't find any trace of the Ravel Brothers providing such to the Villistas. So try again. Almost all purchases were conducted at Texas crossings by American firms located well away from the border. Regarding the federal forces being allowed to cross us tracks to other fronts. What role did the 10 US civilian citizens robbed and executed at Columbus have to do with it? How about the 16 Civilians robbed and executed on the train in Durango? The Mormon families in the Colonia? The female population of Namiquipa?
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  13.  @dBeastcoGlobal_  yeah, because they were invited and it was initially a good deal.
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  14. How do you equate getting 40% of his force killed as an immediate result of his attack on Columbus being smart?
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  15.  @spacemarinechaplain9367  for all the supposed brilliance of his tactics, the only tactic he seemed to possess was a frontal mounted attack. Against a dug in defense with interlocking machine gun fields of fire, he just spent his conscripted Villistas lives like water. No problem for him, he would just press gang more in the next village or hacienda.
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  16.  @MR-nl8xr  concur. Much wishing would make it so going over the generations in Mexico.
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  17.  @jorgenajar9407  nonsense. If he wanted to wrest the legally acquired by Gadsden purchase lands in New Mexico from the legitimate purchaser in the U S government. Why didn't he have the 340 surviving members of his ill fated raid begin digging in around Columbus? Instead like any good murderous bandido leader,, the priority he gave to his bandidos was to loot and burn the stores. Rob and murder the hotel guests. And begin moving towards the bank. This was all about theft from what he thought would be a soft and easy Yankee target. His sources in the town mistakenly told him that there were only 30 troopers at Camp Furlong and he believed he could overwhelm that force easily. Instead he faced an entire Battalion of 300 troopers who quickly reacted to keep him away from the bank and mow down his forces as the looted and burned the hotel with machine gun fire.
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  18.  @stone0234  normally i would agree. But taxes weren't the case. The sought to rebell against amore centralized European style government. The wanted the same Mexican government they had been lured to. More decentralized and local in nature.... more like the US....
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  19. So you are saying he did not check the ammunition at time of purchase? I doubt that. This is just another apocryphal story by the Villa Apologists attempting to justify his actions.
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  20.  @maurovillarreal2037  1.) There is no documented evidence anyone was sold blanks. 2.) There is no documented evidence that anyone was contracted to sell ammunition that later turned into a sale that provided blanks. 3.) There is no evidence anyone provided ammunition that contained sawdust vice gun powder. 4.) The US Army does not sell ammunition to other parties. Foreign or domestic. 5.) In 1916 the US Army was standardized around the 30.06 caliber cartridge. 6.) Both sides of the Mexican revolution had begun using the 7x57 Mauser which is different. 7.) The US Army would not thus have the ammunition on hand to illicitly sell.. Thus in order to sell 7x57 Mauser ammunition it would have had to be imported from Europe or South America. 8.) The other rifle commonly found with the Villistas was a Winchester model lever action 30-30 which the army would not have access to ammunition to feed as it was never a standard weapon in the US arsenal (regardless of Hollywood depiction) Thus the story of Villa being cheated in an ammunition deal with the US Government must be assumed to be apocryphal. Likely made up to provide a justification for the attack on Columbus.
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  21.  @maurovillarreal2037  Please prove anyone was sold BLANKS.
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  22.  @maurovillarreal2037  1.) Every third man in Mexico in the 1916 time- frame seems to have told his grandkids he was with Villa at Columbus. It seems to be the Mexican version of claiming to be a Navy SEAL in the war on terror. Of the approximately 500 Villistas that participated in the attack, 167 were counted as dead by the end of that day. Six more were executed in Deming after trial, a seventh Juvenile was deported. The Punative Expedition records count an additional 170 Villistas known to be at Columbus killed in the two months of active campaigning. That leaves 157 survivors of the Expeditions efforts. I guess those 157 fathered half of the children of Mexico in the following decade? Impressive... 2.) There are no contemporaneous accounts of an arms sale from either perspective in the 1910 to 1916 time frame. None. Zero. 3.) There are no contemporaneous accounts of Villistas being provided blanks. 4.)Blanks look totally different than actual live ammunition and at a glance could be differentiated. 5.) For your scenario to play out Viilistas would have to take possession of the ammunition- then never open the packaging it was delivered in. Then without looking at it load it in their rfles and bandaliers as Villistas were normally equipped. Then go into battle and try to shoot it. 6.) they would never test the ammunition upon delivery by job lot. Boy, these Villistas had to be THICK....
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  23.  @maurovillarreal2037  Face facts. He wanted more of the pie and was going to take it. Are you so naive that you think he was going to set up some sort of paupers paradise? He was going to move in, execute his enemies, and live it up as a dictator like the rest of them.
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  24.  @maurovillarreal2037  ooooh, so in Mexico "the girls were asking for it" works if their fathers and brothers are being lined up to be shot by the bandidos in question who have already stolen everything of value. REALLY? IS MEXICO STILL THAT FAR BACK? REALLY? Does Mexico need a thuggish "hero" so badly that it will cover for any and all behavior?
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  25.  @stone0234  Slavery was only a small part of it. The erratic government of Santa Ana threatened rights previously held under the federalist constitution of 1824. That was it in large part....
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  26.  @dariomendoza1518  This is a series of highly illogical statement. 1. Which men was Pancho dealing with? 2. Someone who would put as much value to honor as you impute to old Pancho in my opinion would not have his men rob innocent civilians before executing them. But then again maybe in Mexico it would be considered the norm? 3. 30 years prior to 1916 is 1886... 4. How did the US perform a form of surprise Attack on Mexico? Rather it was old Pancho who did the surprise attack. Please try again
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  27.  Pedro Ruiz  so you are saying LT Lucas did not employ the 13th Cavalry Machine gun Platoon to decimate the Villistas with grazing fire as they milled about in front of the Hotel? You are saying that there were not 67 Villista bodies found lying about Columbus the next morning as a result of LT Lucas efforts? Those bodies were not dragged about a kilometer southeast of town and burned using Kerosene? That seven Villistas were not captured and tried in a Deming court? Six of those receiving capital punishment by hanging and the seventh being released as a minor? You are saying that the testimony in that court did not reveal that the Villistas robbed the hotel residents before murdering them?
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  28.  @donttrip2662  what about the history as I have laid out is not true. Be specific please
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  29.  @dBeastcoGlobal_  actually they were. The Mexo an government was finding difficulties in settling the Texas region due to the Comanche raids. Not an unusual story since they had problems also settling New Mexico and Arizona as well. They were attuned to the exploitation colony paradigm and were not well set for a farm colony as the settlers from the east were. Thus they invited the settlers from what was then the US and asked for allegiance with the promise of limited governmental interference to keep Texas under control. But then Santa Ana got cold feet and ramped up his control in violation of the promises. Hence the Texas Revolution....
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  30.  @dBeastcoGlobal_  know it all? No.... Know more? Obviously. Most people who glorify Villa do so based on "truths" that are easily disproven. Apocryphal tales they heard from Grandpa around a campfire that are easily disproven when compared to actual factual information.
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  31.  @dBeastcoGlobal_  Well. Let's see.... I had access to after action reports from the 13th Cavalry Regiment, 10th Cavalry Regiment, and a myriad of duty logs from the entire US Army along the Mexican border for the time in question. I had access to contemporaneous news accounts from people writing for both local and distant papers who witnessed events. Sometimes personal correspondence from people who were at the scene as well as interviews with people on site. Best example was the Mormon mother kidnapped off the Colonia when her husband and cousin were executed by the Villistas. She was taken along to Columbus and witnessed the goings on from the Mexican point of view at Cootes Hill with Villa as she was in Villas company until it came time for his command group to flee back into Mexico as things actually "went south". Her account was worth a great deal in examining what happened at Columbus from the Mexican side. Almost no other sources exist due to the act of recording what happened being considered of such limited value, and the literacy wasn't terribly high to start with. How about facts like that?
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  32.  @clavo6498  well, the journals do provide provenance that he made it to the western hemisphere. The vikings can make a claim to having the settlements in Greenland and Labrador according to archeological discovery, but no written records exist . That help you?
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  33. List one US soldier in 1916 who lined innocent villagers up to be executed by firing squad. I'll even give you ten years either way. Thus 1906 - 1926.
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  34.  @maurovillarreal2037  So, how do you know it existed? Told to you by the same guys who over the years have claimed: 1.) VILLISTAS killed 100 US soldiers from the 13th Cavalry and hung their bodies from trees in Palomas. (Palomas is and was treeless at that time. Ha!) 2.) Villistas used to wear Carracista uniforms to lure US airplanes to land and then capture the pilots. (All destroyed US aircraft are accounted for in logs and no entries mention captured pilots, flimsy early model Curtis aircraft mostly destroyed trying to land at base.) 3.) VILLA used to have his soldiers reverse their horseshoes to make it look like they were going the other way to confuse the cavalry. 4.) That Villa used to regularly capture US troops in pitched battles, mercifully cut off their ears and send them back as a warning. (No such records exist of Villa capturing anyone. Let alone US soldiers. If so then I am not the one with Santa Clause and Easter bunny issues.....
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  35.  @designationzero9979  please find any verified contemporaneous accounts that state Villa: 1.) removed an ear of any US soldiers. The press would have trumpeted that story back then so if it happened it should not be difficult to find a verfied account if it happened. 2.) Rhe story regarding the ammunition assumes none of was test fired before payment. If they paid, then accepted the ammunition without testing it, they are about the thickest amateurs around.
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  36.  Imgladandrew gillumisnotmykang386  yes, those of us who know what live ammunition looks like as well as blank ammunition know that the story of Villa issuing out blank ammunition would have to be apocryphal. Either that or he did not care for the lives of his bandidos
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  37.  @maurovillarreal2037 1.) what written soure material do you have saying that the Texas Law enforcement authorities had these rounds before providing them to the merchant in Columbus. Please ensure the material is contemporaneous to the 1915 to 1918 time frame. 2.) Your story indicates the Texas Law enforcement test fired the supposed rounds and found them inadequate, but Pancho did not and just issued them out with test firing by job lots? Says a great deal....
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  38.  @maurovillarreal2037  please provide their source material. Google has plenty of out rageous material on it claiming all sorts of inaccurate nonsense (100 US Soldiers captured at Columbus and hung in Palomas, US aircraft lured to their capture by Villistas) etc.
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  39.  @maurovillarreal2037  Seeing that All of Mexico believes the fictions involving Pancho, it is hard to believe their academic work would be better. But by all means please present it....
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  40.  @maurovillarreal2037  interesting question. Which battle was it in particular that Villas troops lost due to inadequate ammunition sold them by Sam Ravel?
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  41.  @maurovillarreal2037  The issue with Mexico is that it was culturally built from an Exploitation Colony and as such will always have the problems you cite in its national DNA. The Philippines have the same issues. Likely 100 years from now Mexico economy will be built on graft and the same social ills will still be in place. And largely that is because it is what the public is familiar with it and prefer.
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  42.  @maurovillarreal2037  doubtful anything truly changed post revolution. Nor did the public clamor for it.
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  43.  @maurovillarreal2037  assume you have a typo error in that post. Villa lost something like 40% of his force for whatever loot he could take from the pockets of the civilians at the hotel prior to executing them. Regarding the Ravel kid, nearly all accou ts told of the raid indicts he hid under a pile of either rugs or blankets until the raiders became distracted by the thought of looting. Then he made his escape into the surrounding fields. The few horses stolen from the 13th Cavalry Stables were mostly recovered by the Persuing cavalry along with much of the loot found amongst the approximatley 100 Villista bodies who had mostly succumbed to the wounds inflicted on them during the raid.
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  44.  @maurovillarreal2037  That us the commonly romanticized view of the revolution. But reality was different. Villas force started with A partially volunteer force, but after the debacle s of Agua Prieta and Hermosillo in 1915 he was using a conscripted force taken off the Haciendas at gun point. No romance there. Testimony at the trials in Deming and Silver City of the captured Villistas paint that picture of a conscripted force living off the loot taken from the next Hacienda, town or village....
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  45.  @maurovillarreal2037  there is no evidence that they got any substantial money during the raid, nor that Ravel was specially selected for any treatment not doled out to the innocent hotel guests they likewise robbed and murdered.
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  46.  @maurovillarreal2037  and I read both sides when they are available, but in this case only one side truly kept records. The other side is not as interested in records, as much as the desire to live through myths passed word of mouth from generation to generation. If you read these entries it seems half of Mexicos grand fathers were on the raid to Columbus, even though it is known only 174 (-) were still alive by the end of the year, and fewer after the debacle as Juarez and the post revolutionary assassination sprees in the next year. Lots of stolen valor going on in Mexico in the years since 1916. And the tales they tell are accepted as gospel even though written records easily debunk them. To quote Tony Wilson, "When you have to choose between truth and the legend, choose the legend."
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  47.  @maurovillarreal2037  Nor was the population aligned with the rebels who after a short time they saw as as well armed bandits who would take their food, what little money they had, and their adolescent sons who were drafted for their bands of theives. Mostly the population simply wanted both sides to leave them alone to their own problems.
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  48.  @maurovillarreal2037  it is immaterial to the question of adequate history gathering to say someone had it bad. What is key to adequate history data collection is that the data is based on recorded fact, rather than whim. I swear in 50 years people in Mexico will be saying that Pancho Villa was the first man to walk on the moon. And when asked how they know this they will say their grandpa who always said he was on the Apollo mission told him when he was a little boy. And we will be expected to believe it even though our well recorded list of all Apollo crews do not show either Grandpa nor Pancho on the missions. And then we will be told by the Mexicans "well, you expected the US to tell the truth?" Sigh.....
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  49.  @maurovillarreal2037  but you mistake the issue. The center of gravity is the accuracy of the presented history. Even when the US army did something dubious they recorded it accurately. This to the point that you can find accurate AAR of the Wounded Knee Massacre and all the other battles. Hell, we have such accurate history we can show you where each 7th Cavalry Casualty was killed during the Battle of the Little Big Horn. Add to that the amazing research in the past 30 years of that battlefield adding to the AAR gives us an unprecedented look at the history of the battle. On the other side of the coin, go to Agua Prieta and ask where the trenches were during thanpivotal battle (i have) and you get an unblinking stare as recording the history accurately takes a back seat to the camp fire story told by grandpa who might or might not actually have been in that battle....
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  50.  @maurovillarreal2037  and which details differed between US and Mexican histories? And how were those histories researched?
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