Comments by "Cartoon Mo!" (@cartoonmo5976) on "Chris At Speakers Corner"
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@Michael-ec4qb
4:3
وَإِنۡ خِفۡتُمۡ أَلَّا تُقۡسِطُواْ فِي 👈ٱلۡيَتَٰمَىٰ👉 فَٱنكِحُواْ مَا طَابَ لَكُم مِّنَ ٱلنِّسَآءِ مَثۡنَىٰ وَثُلَٰثَ وَرُبَٰعَۖ فَإِنۡ خِفۡتُمۡ أَلَّا تَعۡدِلُواْ فَوَٰحِدَةً أَوۡ مَا مَلَكَتۡ أَيۡمَٰنُكُمۡۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَدۡنَىٰٓ أَلَّا تَعُولُواْ
English Transliteration
Wa-in khiftum alla tuqsitoo
👉feealyatama👈 fankihoo ma tabalakum mina annisa-i mathna wathulathawarubaAAa fa-in khiftum alla taAAdiloo fawahidatanaw ma malakat aymanukum thalika adnaalla taAAooloo
Ya-Ta-Miim = orphan, fatherless, become isolated or lonely, solitary, weary, jaded, become widow, become without father
👉before puberty/maturity.👈
yatim n.m. (pl. yatama) 2:83, 2:177, 2:215, 2:220, 4:2, 👉4:3👈, 4:6, 4:8, 4:10, 4:36, 4:127, 4:127, 6:152, 8:41, 17:34, 18:82, 59:7, 76:8, 89:17, 90:15, 93:6, 93:9, 107:2
Sahih International
And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the 👉orphan girls👈, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].
Ibn Kathir Tafsir (4:3)
بِسْمِ اللّٰهِ الرَّحْمٰنِ الرَّحِيْمِ
وَاِنۡ خِفۡتُمۡ اَلَّا تُقۡسِطُوۡا فِى الۡيَتٰمٰى فَانْكِحُوۡا مَا طَابَ لَـكُمۡ مِّنَ النِّسَآءِ مَثۡنٰى وَثُلٰثَ وَرُبٰعَ ۚ فَاِنۡ خِفۡتُمۡ اَلَّا تَعۡدِلُوۡا فَوَاحِدَةً اَوۡ مَا مَلَـكَتۡ اَيۡمَانُكُمۡ ؕ ذٰ لِكَ اَدۡنٰٓى اَلَّا تَعُوۡلُوۡا
And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].
وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِي الْيَتَامَى فَانكِحُواْ مَا طَابَ لَكُم مِّنَ النِّسَاء
And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice,
Allah commands, when one of you is the caretaker of a female orphan and he fears that he might not give her a dowry that is suitable for women of her status, he should marry other women, who are plenty as Allah has not restricted him.
Al-Bukhari recorded that Aishah said,
"A man was taking care of a female orphan and he married her, although he did not desire to marry her. That girl's money was mixed with his, and he was keeping her portion from her. Afterwards, this Ayah was revealed about his case;
وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ
If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly..."
Al-Bukhari recorded that Urwah bin Az-Zubayr said that;
he asked Aishah about the meaning of the statement of Allah,
وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِي الْيَتَامَى
(If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls).
She said, "O my nephew! This is about the orphan girl who lives with her guardian and shares his property. Her wealth and beauty may tempt him to marry her without giving her an adequate dowry which might have been given by another suitor. So, such guardians were forbidden to marry such orphan girls unless they treated them justly and gave them the most suitable dowry; otherwise they were ordered to marry woman besides them."
Aishah further said,
"After that verse, the people again asked the Messenger of Allah (about marriage with orphan girls), so Allah revealed the Ayah,
وَيَسْتَفْتُونَكَ فِي النِّسَاء
(They ask your instruction concerning the women..)." (4:127)
She said,
"Allah's statement in this Ayah,
وَتَرْغَبُونَ أَن تَنكِحُوهُنَّ
(yet whom you desire to marry) (4:127) refers to the guardian who does not desire to marry an orphan girl under his supervision because she is neither wealthy nor beautiful. The guardians were forbidden to marry their orphan girls possessing property and beauty without being just to them, as they generally refrain from marrying them (when they are neither beautiful nor wealthy)."
The Permission to Marry Four Women
Allah's statement,
مَثْنَى
وَثُلَثَ وَرُبَاعَ
two or three, or four,
means, marry as many women as you like, other than the orphan girls, two, three or four.
We should mention that Allah's statement in another Ayah,
جَاعِلِ الْمَلَايِكَةِ رُسُلًا أُولِي أَجْنِحَةٍ مَّثْنَى وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ
(Who made the angels messengers with wings, - two or three or four), (35:1), does not mean that other angels do not have more than four wings, as there are proofs that some angels do have more wings. Yet, men are prohibited from marrying more than four wives, as the Ayah decrees, since the Ayah specifies what men are allowed of wives, as Ibn Abbas and the majority of scholars stated. If it were allowed for them to have more than four wives, the Ayah would have mentioned it.
Imam Ahmad recorded that Salim said that his father said that;
Ghilan bin Salamah Ath-Thaqafi had ten wives when he became Muslim, and the Prophet said to him, "Choose any four of them (and divorce the rest)."
During the reign of Umar, Ghilan divorced his remaining wives and divided his money between his children.
When Umar heard news of this, he said to Ghilan, "I think that the devil has conveyed to your heart the news of your imminent death, from what the devil hears during his eavesdropping. It may as well be that you will not remain alive but for a little longer. By Allah! You will take back your wives and your money, or I will take possession of this all and will order that your grave be stoned as is the case with the grave of Abu Righal (from Thamud, who was saved from their fate because he was in the Sacred Area. But, when he left it, he was tormented like they were)."
Ash-Shafi`i, At-Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, Ad-Daraqutni and Al-Bayhaqi collected this Hadith up to the Prophet's statement, "Choose any four of them."
Only Ahmad collected the full version of this Hadith.
Therefore, had it been allowed for men to marry more than four women at the same time, the Prophet would have allowed Ghilan to keep more than four of his wives since they all embraced Islam with him. When the Prophet commanded him to keep just four of them and divorce the rest, this indicated that men are not allowed to keep more than four wives at a time under any circumstances. If this is the case concerning those who already had more than four wives upon embracing Islam, then this ruling applies even more so to marrying more than four.
Marrying Only One Wife When One Fears He Might not Do Justice to His Wives
Allah's statement,
فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ
But if you fear that you will not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or what your right hands possess.
The Ayah commands, if you fear that you will not be able to do justice between your wives by marrying more than one, then marry only one wife, or satisfy yourself with only female captives, for it is not obligatory to treat them equally, rather it is recommended. So if one does so, that is good, and if not, there is no harm on him.
In another Ayah, Allah said,
وَلَن تَسْتَطِيعُواْ أَن تَعْدِلُواْ بَيْنَ النِّسَأءِ وَلَوْ حَرَصْتُمْ
You will never be able to do perfect justice between wives even if it is your ardent desire. (4:129)
Allah said,
ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعُولُواْ
That is nearer to prevent you from Ta`ulu,
meaning, from doing injustice.
Ibn Abi Hatim, Ibn Marduwyah and Abu Hatim Ibn Hibban, in his Sahih, recorded that Aishah said that,
the Prophet said that the Ayah,
ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعُولُواْ
(That is nearer to prevent you from Ta`ulu, means, from doing injustice.
However, Ibn Abi Hatim said that his father said that this Hadith to the Prophet is a mistake, for it should be attributed to Aishah not the Prophet.
Ibn Abi Hatim reported from Ibn Abbas, Mujahid, Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Abu Malik, Abu Razin, An-Nakhai, Ash-Sha`bi, Ad-Dahhak, Ata Al-Khurasani, Qatadah, As-Suddi and Muqatil bin Hayyan that;
Ta`ulu means to deviate (from justice).
Giving the Dowry is Obligatory
Allah says;
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@Michael-ec4qb
Thanks, I'm over the initial symptoms, just shaking off the aftermath!....
And the info proves child marriage is commanded and sanctioned in the Quran,
So, that's the point, and God would never sanction or command such evil!....
Now the question you could ask is if the opponent agrees that child marriage is wrong, approach it like that, because your intent is for the Muslim to realise this is in their Quran, and majority of Muslims you meet, you ask them that, of course they're going to agree it's wrong, evil,
Then you show them the info, and this proves that Aisha too was a little girl, she wasn't mature for her age as they try and claim, because little girls are being defined as adult women!
There's plenty of Muslims that when they realise they've been misled and lied to, and they in themselves can't ever condone such evil, end up apostasising!
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@Michael-ec4qb
I'd say start with the Quran reference and the Arabic root dictionary, that alone proves the point,
The Tafsir supports the point!
So start with 4:3, you show that, then most likely the hiding behind Arabic game will start, so you then shut that down with the dictionary,
And finally the Tafsir affirms the point,
All in all, you prove the point and what the Quran says, that the Arabic and translation are accurate, and the Doctrine in the Tafsir supports and affirms it all!
There's no refuting it, it's right there, so the Muslim has to deal with that as fact, and assuming they're a decent human being, they will be disgusted, and it's for them then to deal with the issue exposed,
Do they want to follow a cult like this, follow a man like Muhammad who married 6yr old Aisha, consummated the marriage at 9, and both Al-Lah and Muhammad are saying go marry prepubescent orphans!
The only other way it can go is the Muslim actually agrees and is pro child marriage, and then that's an admission to being a risk and danger to children, a paedo-phile!
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@Michael-ec4qb
Brother I've had a thought, now because you mentioned approaching Dawah stalls to debate Muslims, I think it would help to maybe first get a feel for, and an experience of debating Muslims in a comments section,
Now what I'm more than happy to do is, if you find a video and a comment you think would be worthy of debating the statement, I'd happily have a debate with the muslim so you can watch and see, get an idea how to debate them, and then when you felt ready, you could start debating them, and that would give you alot of confidence when then approaching them at Dawah stalls, because you'd have a feel for their script, and be able to easily start exposing it and islam!
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@Michael-ec4qb
As long as I receive a notification I will always reply, I say that only because I'm only on my mobile, and on the odd occasion, usually if there's a long thread, I don't always get the notification!
I'd say if you at anytime didn't get a response in an hour or two, then maybe give me a nudge comment, and I'm in UK, just so if you're in a different time zone, then you know if it's say really late at night, or early hours of the morning, obvs might be asleep,
They're the only reasons as to why I may be delayed or not responded straight back in an hour or two!
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@Michael-ec4qb
Here's a nice easy one for you to use brother, you'll have some fun with this one!......
Surah Zilzal tafseer
Hadith related by Imam Suyuti which states:
“When God Almighty wanted to create Himself, He created the horse first and let it gallop till it sweated. Then He created Himself from its sweat.
Abu Hurayra narrated:
It was said, “O Messenger of God, from what is our Lord?
He said, “From water not of earth, nor of the heavens. He created a horse and made it run. It sweated, and he created himself from that sweat.”
How did Al-Lah create the horse that sweat to create Al-Lah if Al-Lah is one, what was Al-Lah creating and what was Al-Lah while creating Al-Lah,
How Al-Lah can create Al-Lah Al-Lah's self and be eternal, uncreated! Was Al-Lah the horse and then created Al-Lah from Al-Lah's own sweat, does this sound befitting for a god that's one, alone, uncreated, eternal!?!
Was the horse not eternal too if it was created before Al-Lah in order for Al-Lah to be created from the horse sweat, who created the horse!?! 🤔 😂 🤣
Now they'll outright reject the Hadiths as false, fabrications, and the second they do, then they've just discredited the entire chains of narration claim as untrustworthy, anything and everything becomes suspect, questionable, and that includes the Quran, because the "perfect preservation" claim is dependant on a flawless chains of narration! 😂 🤣
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@AlonzoHarris235
Well Alonzo, you actually ended up proving that Al-Lah has nada to do with the Trinity because Al-Lah isn't the Father, and you've acknowledged that the Father and the Son aren't one and the same hypostasis, so 5:17 & 5:72 are both in error twice!
And if Al-Lah has nothing to do with the Trinity, then why should we care whether Al-Lah is one or not, or you care if our God is Triune!?!
Are you seriously appealing to the logic thinking you can dispute the Trinity, so that we apsoatsise, and then somehow are going to accept Al-Lah, and believe Al-Lah is a different god and still believe in our scripture, but believe our scripture is corrupted, while your logic is unfounded in the quran/quranic doctrine, because your god in the quran is trying to claim to be our god, and that our scripture is legit in order to believe the claim, that we should be able to find Ahmad explicitly in our scripture in order to believe the claims mo made as your Al-Lah, that Isa was crucified and resurrected during the time of Moses, as a Levite, and this is meant to be Jesus Christ, who had an injil book that no one has ever seen/read, and had followers called Nasara or Christians, and all Prophets between Moses and Jesus Christ were all around during the time of Moses!?!.....
Come on, seriously, you want me to believe either, any, all of this!?!
Ok, no problem, just one small request.....PROVE IT! 😂
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Shamsi lacks the intelligence, intellect, and education to debate us let alone teach anyone about anything but how to be a comical ignorant ultracrepidarian!
When he goes on about our God's incarnate Human Nature being born, well duh!....We're in the image of our God, so our God became incarnate in His Own Image, and the incarnation being His Human Nature, well for His incarnate Human Nature to be, His Human Nature like all humans, was born!....
And shamsi has issue with women's private parts, he refers to birth as unclean, well what does that say about him and his mother, or more so, his fake pagan Sabian born of a Arabian local pagan M to the U to the Tah bicycle (Aminah) who didn't even know who the father of her hell spawn was!?!and the number of times he's said "Your God!" when talking to Christians, just like every other abdool who says the same, they instantly reject quran, their pagan moon god, and their fake pagan Sabian soothsayer! 😂
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