Comments by "doveton sturdee" (@dovetonsturdee7033) on "Knowledgia"
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@johnmcbluenose Documentaries on Dunkirk won't mention 51HD because at the time they were detached and serving in the Maginot Line. It just happened to be their turn, as other BEF divisions had been there previously.
51HD retreated across France, as part of a French Corps, and Admiral James (C-in-C, Portsmouth) sent 67 merchant ships and 140 smaller vessels to lift them from St. Valery. The lift was abandoned due to fog on the first night, and the French Corp Commander surrendered before a second attempt could be made, although 2137 British & 1184 French troops were lifted from the beaches at Veules. That happened a week after Dunkirk had ended, by the way. Churchill did not order that they be left behind. The reality was that they were unable to re-join the BEF.
In total, a further 191,870 British troops were lifted from west coast French ports, ending on 25 June, by the way.
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@lmyrski8385 The treaty was an attempt to draw a line in the sand, and to prevent a general European war, by telling Hitler that, should he invade Poland, he would be obliged to fight a war against two major European powers. Far from seeking war with Germany, Britain and France went far, some would argue too far, in their attempts to avoid one.
To be frank about it, Britain and France did not go to war to defend Poland. Poland was simply incidental in the issue. Both honoured their treaty obligations by going to war, even though Britain as a sea power had only a tiny army, and the much larger French army was not ready for anything other than defensive actions at least initially.
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@xXArnOdu974Xx In 1936, the French regular army was 320,000 strong, with a large number of modern tanks, and, if necessary, the ability to call up large numbers of reservists. German had only re-introduced conscription a year earlier, and was aiming to build an army of up to 300,000 men in time. Germany, in addition, had a small number of light tanks, of Marks I & II.
Germany sent very few troops into the Rhineland, some 5,000 at most. Are you really saying that the French regular army could not cope with 5,000 Germans?
As to your apparent conviction that France was incapable of acting independently without the British holding her hand, what sort of support do you think Britain, with a tiny peacetime army, could have given on land? Air support, and the security to French communications with her colonies that the largest navy on earth offered, but, as the French General Staff knew, even if you don't, Britain was not a land power, and only briefly became one in 1916-18 because of the fear of German victory in WW1.
You don't seem to know much, except for your conviction that, whenever something went wrong, it wasn't the fault of France.
I won't bother replying again, as you appear to be beyond education.
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@jbloun911 When did I say that Churchill 'begged' for anything? He sought US support. He certainly didn't need US support to defeat any invasion, and to be frank didn't receive any in any case.
Most history books actually acknowledge that the defeat of Hitler, on land, was more due to the Soviet army than to the Western Allies. They also acknowledge that the assault landings in the west ( Torch, Husky, Overlord, etc.) were largely British led, and that the US became the dominant partner in the last seven or so months of the war only. Have you actually read any books on the subject?
By the way, have you heard of Operation U-Go, which resulted in 60,000 Japanese dead, and over 100,000 casualties, and was acknowledged by them as their heaviest defeat in a single battle to the end of 1944? I thought not, as it was in Burma.
Finally, 'and get off our internet.' Your internet? Who invented the damned thing? Tim Berners-Lee. Born in London.
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@berniefynn6623 You mean, apart from the 1 cruiser, 41 destroyers, 5 sloops, corvettes and gunboats, 36 minesweepers, 77 trawlers and drifters, and 20 Special Service Vessels,, MTBs, MGBs and boarding vessels, I suppose?
Not to mention the large number of Merchant Navy transports, or the comandeered Dutch Skoots, or the small boats, almost all of which were crewed by RN personnel?
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@berniefynn6623 Is all you know based on that ridiculous movie 'Dunkirk' of a couple of years ago?
In point of fact, destroyers brought back 102,843 men, the cruiser 1856, the sloops etc. 8755, the minesweepers 48,472, trawlers & drifters 28,709, special service vessels etc., 9355. Skoots carried 22,698, personnel ships 96,606, and the 'Little Ships' 6029.
The Little ships were used to ferry troops from the beaches to the larger ships offshore. The myth, and the movie, are both inaccurate. You should read the Naval Staff History, or any other of the many excellent and detailed accounts.
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