Comments by "Kat 1515" (@Kat-fq4ei) on "HistoryLegends"
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@junior1497 Yet northern- central NM had the first 1598 settlement and richest Spanish Colonial history in the SW. The Mexican Period 1824 hardly brought any Mexicans, and US Territorial Periods 1848 and 1912 statehood, NM was basically unindustrial which did not attract Mexicans so northern NM retained its Spanish Colonial heritage being the Spanish stronghold in the SW. Southern NM was populated approx 1880s, mostly during the Territorial Period by Mexicans who had direct connections to Mexico in culture and blood. Arizona had been part of NM until the Territorial Period. And California, New Mexico and Texas had similar histories during the Spanish Colonial Period 1598-1821. By the time they were colonized the conquistador era was over, they were New Spains northern outposts for French and Russian intrusion into Spains territories, the Indians were unconquered, life was very distant, isolated, uninhabitable and Spain did not populate or make roadways to New Orleans because of the dangerous conditions, especially fear of Indian revolts.
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@ProtomanButCallMeBlues uneducated... Mexicans are citizens of Mexico comprised of many nationalities. Mexican is not a race. Furthermore , Mexicans, Central Americans, South Americans, and USA descendants of Spanish Colonial SW and from Louisiana to Florida on the American continent, are all citizens of many Spanish American nationalities. Not necessarily New Spain and have historically identified and still do to their country of origin as Mexicanos, Guatamalos, Argentinos. Even those from the Spanish Caribbean as Cubanos, Puerto Ricaños... All Spanish America are culturally different, by history, geography, borders, politics, tribes, peoples.
Mexico is nothing but lands left over in north America in New Spain after Spain Treaty'd Florida and Louisiana. Mexico claimed these lands under the new Republic of Mexico government, Estados Unidos constitution 1824. "Mexico" borders changed 4 times within 40 years from no borders as there was no Mexico, to the 1814 Apatzingan constitution under which California, New Mexico and Texas are not Mexico; to Mexicos lands claimed in 1824; to half the lands returned to Mexico in 1848 under the Treaty of GH to include Mexico's heart and core. The USA kept the distant California and SW which were not part of Mexico's main, unincorporated, an not ancestrally Mexico.
Upon Mexican independence which was not acknowledged by Spain under any treaty, Mexicans hated and expulsed Spaniards and to date many Mexicans hold a hated for Spain, Cortez, Spanish. And historically proud of Mexican, their mixed Indian blood, holding a distinction between Mexican and Spanish... As compared to pockets in Spanish SW , Spanish Americans, culturally different from the Mexican, the SW not ancestrally Mexico. No question, had it not been for Spain, there would be no Mexico 300 years later, but Mexicans--citizens of Mexico, hardly identify as Spanish. It's a fact, Mexicans didn't even knew anything "Hispanic" upon entry into the USA at the turn of this century. Hispanic being a 1960s USA Census Bureau classification for people from Spanish speaking countries, rarely in use until the 1990s in USA with uncontrolled Mexican migration, popularized by media and politicians during this time. "Hispanic" unknown outside of USA borders until recently. Yet, Hispano was well acknowledged in the SW. Mexicans in the 21st century are doing DNA and learning of their Spanish blood and and more acceptable of European
The Spaniards headed toward the north todays USA SW to California and tierra nuevas by land and sea. But the Pacific Coast lands were disputed territories among the Spaniard, the English and Russian. And upon Mexican independence, todays SW were open for takeover by GreatBritain and Russia. The Russian and Spaniard were in today's Washington and Oregon over two centuries before Mexico. And Great Britain ships were sailing the areas. "Mexicans" are Johnnie come late to California and SW. Arriving not until the SW Mexican Period 1821-1846. They may have had Spanish blood, but they were totally different from the descendants of the 275 years SW Spanish Colonial Period, the SW being the homeland in this part of New Spain and Mexican government met with resistance. Those from Sonora, Sinaloa or anywhere south did not have ancestral roots in the distant north. In fact, those Mexicans who dared come during the Mexican Period were attacked by the Kumeyaay tribes in southern California reduced to almost no outsider Mexican. Not to mention Mexicans fear of the Comanche, of which Mexicans didn't even go near Texas during the Mexican Period. While the Spanish colonists had developed good relationships with Comanche since 1770. And what about the Kiowa and Apache attacks in Sonora and Sinaloa, leaving ranches and mines in shreds. The SW "Spanish" history of 275 years can go on and on--colonization, battles with Indians, expeditions to further north, protecting New Spain against Russian and French intrusion, conquered the Comanche, toiled the northern soil, etc. New Mexico and California were easily taken by the USA in the MexicanWar--hardly a Mexican soldier in sight. Mexico had to bring soldiers from the south. "Mexican" history was just starting in 1824, 25 year presence in the far north. A different government, different peoples, different cultures, different parts of New Spain. Same language as all were claimed/colonized during the European exploration era by Spain. Generally, Mexican didn't settle during the Mexican Period because the SW was far, isolated, uninhabitable wilderness, in many parts impassable. It's because of the USA that Mexicans look only north. The Spanish were already in the SW, didn't participate in Mexican independence or Mexico City politics against Spain. Mexicans have no need for Central America, of which parts had been Mexico for a short time too...These Spanish lands are all but forgotten, Mexico makes no claim to its south.... So rodeo and cowboys are Mexican. So what. The prosperous USA made the SW what it us today and the American Texan and Hollywood put rodeos on the map. It's nothing but cultural influences which has happened by migrations since the beginning of time... The horse, cow, saddle, alfalfa came from European countries connected in many ways, even blood relations. Uneducated haha... you gotta be referring to yourself.
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@Egr-et6ar aridoamerican is nothing but a an ecological desert region . Big deal. An anthropologist theory. "Precolonial Mexico" is a misleading term as there was no Mexico until 1824, on lands limited to territories claimed by Spain. Spain introduced "Mexico" to common use because of Mexico City, land of the mexica Aztec, to become the influencal province in New Spain, because the government administrations viceroy and Europeans fine development was limited to the Kingdom of Mexico Territory early in the Colonial era, central Mexico today . Before European invasion, the lands were inhabited by many different tribes identified by indigenous names from Alaska to Argentina. Who pillaged, slaved, killed, genocided weaker tribes for natural resources. Never one nation, one government or one people. Tribes had been extinct since before European conquest.
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The US had a total right by war, conquest, occupation, flying the United States flag over Mexico City, Treaty, 25 million dollars , border. Apparently you have an empty brain. Besides these were inherent lands to Navaho, Ute, Comanche, Shasta, Chumash, Pueblo, Piaut, Kiowa Apache plus many more USA tribes still in their lands. So you lost nothing but common sense.
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Alot more to it than sparsely populated. Mexicos first constitution 1815, California, NewMexico, Texas are not Mexico. New Spain was many Territories far and wide even Cuba, Central America, Caribbeans, Phillipines, Pacific to Canada. Mexico is misinterpreted by historians as it became "Mexico" in 1824 under Estados Unidos Mexicanos constitution and flag. These territories from the distant north did not fight or were involved with Hidalgo for independence, rather were informed that they were mandated Mexican citizenship after Mexico took control after independence. Even then these territories were not part of central Mexico, its soul. The only Mexicans to transplant north were government officials. During the Mexican War there were barely Mexicans in California and Texas to battle, Mexico needed to bring Mexicans north to battle, New Mexico was won without a single bullet shot. Furthermore Mexico did not support the north militarily or financially, they were self governed, taxed heavily. In fact Nuevomexicanos refused to ally with the Mexican army to battle the Comanche. Many sided with Americans and after the War became USA citizens, if there was any patriotism, it waned after the Mexican government departed after the American US took control. Californios, Nuevomexicanos and Tejanos remained in the homeland, instinctively knew they were not Mexican and not historically Mexico. The northern tribes never acknowledged Mexico , in fact the Comanche and Apache battled fiercely with Mexico. And no one cried over Mexico, over and done with after 25 years. These don't celebrate Mexican Independence Day or even know the date... Sooner or later they would have gained independence from Mexico, just like Yucatan and Central America. Unincorporated, by all means....
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Possible so, but these lands were on the unpopulated outer edge wilderness of lands that Mexico claimed 25 years earlier after independence from Spain after 300 years. They were too far from central Mexico, self governed and poorly supported or financed, heavily taxed and unincorporated. Mexico was not in control. California, New Mexico which included Arizona, and Texas were not even Mexico in Mexicos first 1815 constitution. Mexicans lost nothing, Chihuahua and Sonora were undisturbed and Californios, Nuevomexicanos and Tejanos who had been mandated Mexican citizenship after independence, stayed in the homeland to become American, while the border was out in the middle of nowhere wilderness desert. As far as the Indians inherent to these lands 95% were unconquered, uncontrolled never identified as Mexican or American. These territories are not historically Mexico. So there's much more to the story
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The north back, it was Spains land, not Mexicos. Your ancestors weren't even in California, New Mexico or Texas during the Mexican War. The lands weren't Mexicos or your ancestors anymore than Guatemala, Colombia, or Pan America. In fact they were lands to Apache and Comanche feared by Mexicans. Plus many more tribes, Navajo, Shasta, Mohave, Kiowa, piate. Dream on or better yet read a history book...
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Mexico knew it was had; conquest, occupation, US flag over Mexico City. A Treaty was in order. Half of Mexico returned--it's heart and core, 15 million dollars , a negotiated border into the far north wilderness desert which served Mexico no good. Forced to sign a treaty-rubbish.... victor always gets the spoils, that's how the world works, for centuries, those are inborn rules of war. Mexico is not an exception..
The USA was on disputed territory over on the Rio Grande. So the US had as much right as Mexico. Mexico started the war....historically speaking. There had always been land disputes in America, borders changed, treaties, purchases. The Treaty of GH was nothing new in America. Mexico later sold more territory-Gadson Purchase , 10 million more dollars for Mexico. More land for the US. Mexico's government was not crying over real estate lands, which were not even historically Mexico. 25 years earlier, these lands were Spains...
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The crusty kid should have been informed enough to understand that New Spain was never Mexico or Mexican before European arrival or under Spain.
Texas, New Mexico or California territories never participated in Mexican independence with other New Spain territories in what's today central Mexico. It was Mexico City and surrounding territories who battled Spain gaining independence to become Mexico. Mexico's first attempt at independence, under the 1815 constitution, neither Texas, New Mexico or California are documented as Mexico. New Spain was always separate territories, California, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana to Florida territories, many territories within what is today Mexico, Cuba, Central America, Caribbeans, Philippines , plus. The Rio Grande tributaries never sustained today's Mexico, its waters barely reached Chihuahua. 25 years prior to the Mexican War the lands belonged to Spain for 250 years. Any claim Mexico had was very brief and not historically Mexico. The California and SW populations were mandated Mexican citizenship becoming American citizens in 1848. It's all well documented by Spain, the United States and Mexico. There are even true stories not long ago by Spanish colonists from the SW homeland who actually lived under three flags. Spains flag, then a foreign soldier from far away comes with a new flag to inform they are Mexican citizens , a couple of decades later another soldier comes along announcing American citizenship under a new flag. Bet you don't celebrate Mexican Independence.....
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Right. Spanish Colonizers centuries Spanish land grants in northern New Mexico were stolen by Anglo settlers and the United States government. Thousands of acres and no reparations. While, the the same land grants issued by Spain in 1700 to the Pueblo Indians are protected under US Federal Indian laws. Thanks to Spains Land grants the Pueblo Indians lands , these tribes still live where Spain found them over 400 years ago; in the late 1800s their lands were protected from federal US takeover, they were not relocated by the US government to reservations like the Apache, Navajo etc or endured the unbearable Long Walk; while the Spanish American citizens in northern NM, regular Americans, had no protection or special privileges under the law. Lands were stolen to rich land spectators, US forest or US Bureau of Land Management in violation of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, as New Mexico was under Mexico's governance for 25 years before the Mexican War. New Mexico Spanish Colonial settlers 1598 had founded the far north Spanish European outposts in northern New Mexico before Jamestown colonization, protected the lands against French intrusion, allied with the Pueblo tribes to battle raiding Indians, protected the Spanish settlers and Pueblo Indians, Christianized the Pueblo tribes, the first to introduce European horses, farm animals, agriculture, weapons, language, Christianity, culture, human rights in today's United States. Had toiled the harsh northern NM soil for two centuries for love of the land upon US Americanization. And fought in the Civil War. If anyone is owed reparations, it's the two centuries old land grant owners in 1848 whose lands were stolen by the US federal government. Yet nothing on reparations. But in reality, most are grateful for American citizenship through independence from Mexico by United States conquest after 26 years under the brief SW Mexican Period...
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My point is self exclamatory. Invaders.... Spanish colonizers settled New Mexico, Texas and California 1598-1770, these territories the homeland... Anglo Americans settled in New Mexico and California since 1821. And Texas settled by Americanos under land grants since 1830s. When Mexico took control of these areas 1821, it was Mexican officials who left for the far north to let the SW populations know that they were under a new flag and government and were mandated Mexican citizenship. Mexican officials transplanted to these far north territories but not other Mexicans in general. When American Texans fought the Alamo, San Jacinto and during the Mexican War, there were just a handful of Mexican in Texas. When American soldiers invaded New Mexico by the War started by Mexico there was not one bullet shot fired. Barely just a few Spanish settlers and no match against the US. California and Texas also had no Mexicans to fight off the American army, and both Texas and California needed to bring in to these territories Mexicans from Chihuahua or Sonara "soldiers" many not even interested. These states had no Mexicans because the far north was never home to Mexicans. Mexicans began migration north after the Mexican War. Historcally, Mexicans were never a part of California, New Mexico/Arizona or Texas. And were invaders as much as anyone else. There's no territory to return. The United States didn't touch Chihuahua or Sonora; and Nuevo Mexicanos, Californios and Tejanos never lost any land through the Mexican War, they were still in the centuries homeland. Additionally, the lands belonged to the Navaho, Apache, Comanche, Pueblo, Mohave, Shasta, Piaut, Kiowa, Ute plus many more northern tribes who never acknowledged Mexico as their inherent lands. The border was out in the middle of nowhere barren desert. Mexicans weren't interested in the north till they learned about it during independence or the War. Then escaping Mexico to head for the USA, for a better life. History 1 01. Mexicans territory nothing.
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@FM-ki4dl If anything, you were nomads who went from here to there for centuries. And finally established your tribes in Tenochtitlan, otherwise known as Mexico City. Hmmmm 1325. That's like an American Englishman trying to claim land in Hungary when his ancestors have been everywhere for centuries just as yours as your ancestors are immigrants to thecAmerican continent so you didn't originate in Utah or New Mexico. Aztec are connected to Central and South America in culture, arts, language, religion. Many SW tribes speak Dine from Alaska, and SW Zuni are just a mystery, their language is connected to Japan... Why the sudden interest in the USA wilderness desert you supposedly left after settling in Tenochtitlan a land with gold and riches after almost 2000 years. ridiculous... There is no evidence of any Atzlan anywhere... Really, your homeland is in Asia, not the USA, so go claim your home-- Asia, or Egypt, or who knows, but it's not the USA...
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