Comments by "TheVilla Aston" (@thevillaaston7811) on "TIKhistory"
channel.
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From Para Dave (aka bigwoody), seemingly aimed at Montgomery:
'-Norway,Netherlands, Belgium and France,Dunkirk in 1940 (338,000,British,Dutch,French Troops in all evacuated)
-Greece, Crete & Hong Kong in 1941 (3700 captured in Greece, 12,274 captured in Crete,10,000 captured in Hong Kong)
-Tobruk and Singapore in 1942 (28-33,000 captured at Tobruk ,81,000 captured in Singapore)'
0/10
Norway. Did not involve Montgomery.
Netherlands. Did not involve Montgomery.
Belgium and France, Dunkirk. Montgomery was only a single division commander.
Greece, Crete & Hong Kong. Did not involve Montgomery.
Tobruk and Singapore in 1942. Did not involve Montgomery.
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@johnlucas8479
Great, that that will do very well. The final piece in the evidence chain in regard to the aims in regards to MARKET GARDEN. And to think...I already had the evidence. Clearly two pairds of eyes were better than one in this case.
An attempt to cut off communications between Germany and the Low Countries, and as a consequence, damage German attacks on Britain with V2 rockets did, in my opinion, entirely justify the MARKET GARDEN undertaking. Justify, because statistics in regard to the death an destruction those weapons caused, and the first hand accounts I have heard regarding their effect, some of them from members of my own family.
I note that the wording states 'dominate the country to the north as far as Zuider Zee'. That would lead to a question, which I am not going to dwell on, as to whether the allies being in control of the land as far North as say Deelen Airfield, would allow that domination, or whether the allies would have needed to reach the Zuider Zee, or some point between.
N.B. Of course, by 1944, the Dutch had renamed the Zuider Zee as the IJsselmeer, after the completion of the Afsluitdijk in 1932.
Pleased as punch I am.
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@jbjones1957
UNITED STATES ARMY IN WORLD WAR II
The European Theater of Operations
THE SIEGFRIED LINE CAMPAIGN
By Charles B. MacDonald
CENTER OF MILITARY HISTORY
UNITED STATES ARMY WASHINGTON, D.C., 1993
P 141
‘Someone in an American glider that was shot down near the First Parachute Army's command post was carrying a copy of the Allied operational order. Two hours after the first parachute had blossomed, this order was on General Student's desk.’
CHESTER WILMOT
THE STRUGGLE FOR EUROPE
WM. COLLINS, SONS AND CO LTD. 1954
P 561
‘Thus it was that by a double twist of fortune the two Germans primarily responsible for the defence of Holland found themselves so placed that they could act at once to counter the advantage the Allies had won by gaining surprise. Nor was this all. The German reserves were slender, but Model and Student soon knew exactly where to use them. Early that afternoon an American glider was shot down close to Vught, and, says Student, " a few hours later the orders for the complete airborne operation were on my desk."’
MAJOR-GENERAL R.E. URQUAHART CB DSO
WITH WILFRED GRETOREX
ARNHEM
CASSELL & COMPANY LTD 1958
P42
‘Two hours after the landings had begun, the complete orders for the entire Airborne Corps operation were on the desk of General Student in his cottage at Vught. They had been found on the body of an American soldier in a glider shot down close to the village.
Thus, the carelessness or wilful disobedience of one soldier gave the Germans an immediate compensation for the advantage we had of surprise.’
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@johnlucas8479
Not really...
MARKET ground commanders made a request for two lifts on the first day. Those people were experienced soldiers, who were working with experienced soldiers. It beggars belief that those people would have made those requests if such a thing could not have been done. All that you have done is to state the sequence of events on the day. As best I can judge from what has been written is that the commander of the FAAA, USAAF General Brereton decided that the the airborne plan would prioritize the convenience of his air forces over the needs of the airborne soldiers. If the American, Brereton had put a two lift plan together, that was scuppered by the weather, then he was in the clear. As it was...
'Ritchie, Sebastian; Ritchie, Sebastian. Arnhem: Myth and Reality
Sunset:
Ritchie, Sebastian; (S2 page 201) “On 17 September sunset occurred at 18.11 p.m. and nautical twilight ended at 19.26 p.m.”'
Thanks. That will do nicely, when it comes to the Hollywood myth, so beloved by Americans, that XXX Corps sat around drinking tea immediately after Nijmegen Bridge had been captured, when they supposedly could have been pushing on to Arnhem straightaway.
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@johnlucas8479
‘On September 4th when this was 1st presented as an extension of COMETit was clear to all there at the meeting that the Scheldt was to be opened as part of the Operation.’ Para Dave / Big Woody.
What meeting on 4th September can Para Dave be on about?..
Eisenhower, Bradley, and Bradley’s subordinate commander, Patton, met at Chartres, on the 2nd September.
Montgomery, Bradley, Hodges, and Dempsey met at Dempsey’s headquarters on 3rd September 1944. Eisenhower, the allied land forces commander did not attend. However, Eisenhower did find time to go to the Allied victory parade in Paris on the 8th September, and then on the 9th, visit Brest, and then Versailles.
Meanwhile…V2 rockets started landing on London on the 8th September. On the 9th September
the VCIGS, General Nye sent this message to Montgomery:
‘Two rockets so called V.2 landed in England yesterday. Believed to have been fired from areas near ROTTERDAM and AMSTERDAM. Will you please report most urgently by what approximate date you consider you can rope off the Coastal area contained by ANTWERP—UTRECHT—ROTTERDAM.’
Montgomery and Eisenhower met in Brussels on the 10th September, their first meeting since Eisenhower had become allied land forces commander. At that meeting, Eisenhower authorised Montgomery to undertake MARKET GARDEN.
And the meeting on the 4th?...Anyone can chip in with evidence.
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@Keimzelle
'That's the most laughable argument ever.' Your words.
So what does Antony Beevor bring the subject, or any Second World War subjects that he writes about?..
He was not there, so there is no first hand experience. He was not even on the subject in time to eyeball the key people involved, that had been done by the likes of Chester Wilmot, Liddell Hart, and so on, even Cornelius Ryan. How many quotes that he uses are from his own interviews?.. All the key facts and contemporary documents that have a bearing on the story have been in the public domain for many decades.
I heard him spouting off about his Arnhem book in a YouTube item about how his book brings to light the sufferering of the Dutch people after Arnhem. Yea, new history that has only been known about since Operation Manna was all over newsreels in 1945. Brilliant, said no one.
Beevor got himself chucked out of Russia for trying to tell the Russians his version of Stalingrad. Pity we do not do the same thing in Britain. He will never get slung out of the USA, he writes the sort of shallow stuff they love. It gets him on to book carousel stands in shops in airport departure lounges, and onto the US lecture circuit.
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@11nytram11
Just to recap. Big Woody (aka Para Dave), has called XXX Corps cowards, Carrington Scarrington, Montgomery every name under the sun. He has disparaged cancer sufferers and he has stated that hates me. Where does all the hate come from?
As for Alanbrooke, he took part two world wars, he saw Alexander and Montgomery perform with distiction in difficult circumstances in 1940, and knew that they were men to be trusted. That trust was fully justified. He was proved right on most of the big issues facing the allies during the war, whilst having to deal with Churchill, the know nothing Eisenhower, and the poor judgement of Marshall.
As for Alanbrooke's diary, the idea that it was written after the war is absurd. Brereton's diary as written after the war, Butcher's diary was doctored after the war.
As for the Mediterranean, victory there freed a million tons of shipping for use with Overlord. The Italian campaign tied down 50 German divisions in Italy and the Balkans - divisions that would otherwise have been facing Overlord or the Russians. No British interests were served by continuing the war in the Mediterranean in 1943, but European interests would have been seved if the Russians had been kept out of the Balkans. But thanks to the bozo Roosevelt who probably thought he was being all very clever by ganging up with the Stalin against Churchill, the Western allies ended up fighting the war just the way that Stalin wanted them to.
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MIchael Basford
Who was were during MARKET GARDEN.
Walter Model was in Oosterbeek when MARKET GARDEN started. Just as anyone would, he cleared off straightaway. In his case, to Castle Wisch in Terborg 20 miles from Arnhem Bridge, safely in German held territory. There, he was able to direct the German battle without distractions. After all, the Americans were not giving the Germans any real problems in other parts of the front.
During MARKET GARDEN, Montgomery was at Hechtel, between nine and ten miles from the front line at the start of the battle. By the end of the battle Montgomery was at Eindhoven, as evidenced by General Urquhart. Montgomery's counterpart in the FAAA, Brereton was in Britain. The allied land forces commander, Eisenhower, was at Granville, in Normandy, France, 400 miles from Arnhem.
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Michael Basford
Rick Atkinson:
Based on an email exchange I have had with Rick Atkinson, he is a nice enough person, but his work is in places either slapdash, or crafted in order to mislead.
Montgomery’s sittings for the second portrait of Montgomery by James Gunn seem to have ended on the 1st September, the last of 14 sittings on consecutive days. There is no record of any sittings after this time. Montgomery wrote to his son’s guardians the Reynolds, on the 10th September, stating: ‘The portrait is completely the cat's whiskers; it will without doubt be the great picture of the year at next year's Academy’. And again on 20th September to the Phyllis Reynolds: ‘The portrait is completely the cat's whiskers; it will without doubt be the great picture of the year at next year's Academy’. MARKET GARDEN took place 17th to 25th September 1944. Why don’t people check first?
Antony Beevor:
‘After all his demands for priority which he received in the north to get across the Rhine,he could not have wanted to face IKE,Patton,Bradley and SHAEFF in Versailles.And could not have been keen to encounter General Bedell-Smith or Strong ,whose fears about German strength in the southern Netherlands Monty had ridiculed.’
There was in fact no material benefit for MARKET GARDEN that came out of promises made to Montgomery by Bedell Smith, on the 12th September. It was on the basis of those promises that MARKET GARDEN even went ahead. Antony Beevor claims that General Bedell-Smith and Strong stated their fears about German strength on the 12th September, presumably in the same meeting.
It would seem odd to have made offers of more resources in order to get things moving, and then to state that it would not work... if the words were spoken. I do not know either, but it seems to smack of the arse covering / re-writing of history so often undertaken by Americans.
Kenneth Strong stated that Bedell-Smith and Strong saw Montgomery about this matter on the 15th, not the 12th, but that Strong was not present in the meeting. Montgomery made no mention of such a meeting. Of course he would not have mentioned it, would be the obvious response. But neither did Eisenhower, Alanbrooke, Chester Wilmot, or one Sebastian Ritchie, in a recent work that seems to be relied on in YouTube comments.
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@laurencetilley9194
'Monty gained 60 miles. at Patton had gained 400 miles'
Get real. Montgomery took almost all of the German forces on the British 2nd front in Normandy,
so that Bradley could use his subordinate commanders, Hodges and Patton to break out.
As evidenced by Bradley:
‘The British and Canadian armies were to decoy the enemy reserves and draw them to their front on the extreme eastern edge of the Allied beachhead. Thus, while Monty taunted the enemy at Caen, we were to make our break on the long roundabout road to Paris. When reckoned in terms of national pride this British decoy mission became a sacrificial one, for which while we trampled around the outside flank, the British were to sit in place and pin down the Germans. Yet strategically it fitted into a logical division of labors, for it was towards Caen that the enemy reserves would race once the alarm was sounded.’
From Omar Bradley's book A Soldier's Story
And when the time came for the break out and chase across, British 2nd Army were no slouches,
as evidenced by Eisenhower:
CRUSADE IN EUROPE
DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER
WILLIAM HEINEMANN LIMITED 1948
P333
‘All along the front we pressed forward in hot pursuit of the fleeing enemy. In four days the British spearheads, paralleled by equally forceful American advances on their right, covered a distance of 195 miles, one of the many feats of marching by our formations in the great pursuit across France.’
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