Comments by "TheVilla Aston" (@thevillaaston7811) on "TIKhistory"
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@Jerry-sw8cz
Not really…
Montgomery with four divisions, defeated Rommel who had four divisions at Alam-el-Halfa.
Montgomery re-invigorated and re-organized Eighth Army to make it fit for battle, as evidenced by eye witnesses:
THE MEMOIRS OF FIELD-MARSHAL EARL ALEXANDER OF TUNIS
CASSELL, LONDON 1962
P16
‘Montgomery is a first-class trainer and leader of troops on the battlefield, with a fine tactical sense. He knows how to win the loyalty of his men and has a great flair for raising morale.’
ARTHUR BRYANT
THE TURN OF THE TIDE
1939-43
COLLINS, ST JAMES’S PLACE, LONDON 1957
P 475
‘without consulting Cairo, he issued immediate orders that, if Rommel attacked, all units should fight on the ground where they and that there should be no withdrawal or surrender. The effect on the Army was electric.’
P 478
‘I was dumfounded by the rapidity with which he had grasped the situation facing him, the ability with which had grasped the essentials, the clarity of his plans , and above all his unbounded self-confidence—a self-confidence with which he inspired all those that he came into contact with.’
WINSTON S CHURCHILL.
THE SECOND WORLD WAR.
CASSELL & CO LTD REVISED EDITION NOVEMBER 1950.
VOLUME IV THE HINGE OF FATE
P464
‘I saw a great many soldiers that day, who greeted me with grins and cheers. I inspected my own regiment, the 4th Hussars, or as many of them as they dared to bring together – perhaps fifty or sixty – near the field cemetery, in which a number of their comrades had been buried. All this was moving, but with it all there grew a sense of the reviving ardour of the Army. Everybody said what a change there was since Montgomery had taken command. I could feel the truth of this with joy and comfort.’
With the Qattara Depression on the left, the sea on the right, the only way was to attack the German through the German minefield. The battle was won with just 13,500 casualties and the victory at Alamein ended the war in North Africa as a contest.
Any questions?..
‘If not my country already occupied and it's population would be completely cleansed from the surface of this planet. Western allies namely Britain and France have 95% responcebility for WW2 and my country still is yet to receive war reparations. Regardless of your opinion on the subject.’
Your words.
Responsibility for the Second World War rests with Germany. Germany attacked other countries. France and Britain could have easily stayed out of the war in 1939. But no, they went to war on behalf of Poland. What is your country, and what reparations are they due?
Now can you please stop deflecting from Market Garden? I would certainly appreciated that. Or may be you actually have nothing to add to that complete utter failure Market Garden was and that is why you try to catch me on my words and constantly deflect to el Alamein.
‘Now can you please stop deflecting from Market Garden? I would certainly appreciated that. Or may be you actually have nothing to add to that complete utter failure Market Garden was and that is why you try to catch me on my words and constantly deflect to el Alamein.’
Your words.
You are the one that brought up Alamein. As for Market Garden…
It liberated up to 20% of the Dutch population, hindered German attempts to launch V Weapons at Britain, stretched meagre German defences another fifty miles, and left the allies well-paced to strike into the Rhineland. The 17,000 casualties incurred should be compared to outright allied failures in the same period at : Aachen (20,000 casualties), Metz (45,000 casualties), and the Hurtgen Forest (55,000 casualties).
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@johnlucas8479
Nope.
The evidence is clear, Arnhem was added to Market Garden because of the
V2 attacks on London.
CHESTER WILMOT
THE STRUGGLE FOR EUROPE
WM. COLLINS, SONS AND CO LTD. 1954
P543
‘On the morning of the September 10th Dempsey arrived at Montgomery’s Tactical H.Q. prepared to advocate this course. Montgomery greeted him with the news that a signal had just come from the War Office, suggesting that the V.2s, which landed on London on the 8th. were launched from bases in Western Holland near The Hague. The War Office enquired whether in the near future there was any chance of these bases being captured or at least cut off from their sources of supply in Germany. This settled the issue’
THE GUNS AT LAST LIGHT
THE WAR IN WESTERN EUROPE, 1944-1945
Rick Atkinson
LITTLE BROWN 2013.
P245/246
‘The initial volley had been fired from Holland, and the SS general overseeing PENGUIN had placed his headquarters outside Nijmegen, ‘a Dutch town only ten miles south of Arnhem on the Rhine, a prime objective of Operation MARKET GARDEN. The message from London advising Montgomery of the first rocket attacks also pleaded, “Wil you please report most urgently by what date you consider you can rope off the coastal area contained by Antwerp-Utrecht-Rotterdam?” While General Dempsey and others favored a more easterly advance toward the Rhine at Wesel, this new German onslaught further persuaded Montgomery to drive deep into Holland. “It must be towards Arnhem.” He said.
Comet weas cancelled due to stiffening German resistance. Market Garden was a beefed up version of Comet intended to overcome stiffer German resistance. The V2 rocket campaign against London put Arnhem as in the new plan. Otherwise, Market Garden would have taken a diferent direction to Comet.
As far as what order the Channel and North Sea Sea ports were attacked, the final decision must have been Eisenhower's, if he chose to exercise his authority, as land forces commander from 1st September 1944 onwards.
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@therealkillerb7643
The Lorraine Campaign:
An Overview,
September-December 1944
by Dr. Christopher R. Gabel
February, 1985
'Few of the Germans defending Lorraine could be considered first-rate troops. Third Army encountered whole battalions made up of deaf men, others of cooks, and others consisting entirety of soldiers with stomach ulcers.
Soldiers and generals alike assumed that Lorraine would fall quickly, and unless the war ended first, Patton's tanks would take the war into Germany by summer's end. But Lorraine was not to be overrun in a lightning campaign. Instead, the battle for Lorraine would drag on for more than 3 months.
Moreover, once Third Army penetrated the province and entered Germany, there would still be no first-rate military objectives within its grasp. The Saar industrial region, while significant, was of secondary importance when compared to the great Ruhr industrial complex farther north.
Was the Lorraine campaign an American victory? From September through November, Third Army claimed to have inflicted over 180,000 casualties on the enemy. But to capture the province of Lorraine, a problem which involved an advance of only 40 to 60 air miles, Third Army required over 3 months and suffered 50,000 casualties, approximately one-third of the total number of casualties it sustained in the entire European war.
Ironically, Third Army never used Lorraine as a springboard for an advance into Germany after all. Patton turned most of the sector over to Seventh Army during the Ardennes crisis, and when the eastward advance resumed after the Battle of the Bulge, Third Army based its operations on Luxembourg, not Lorraine. The Lorraine campaign will always remain a controversial episode in American military history.
Finally the Lorraine campaign demonstrated that Logistics often drive operations, no matter how forceful and aggressive the commanding general may be.
He discovered that violating logistical principles is an unforgiving and cumulative matter.'
www.historynet.com/patton-the-german-view/4/
Patton: The German View
'Patton, for his part, fully intended to make an unrelenting push to the Rhine after Normandy. He succeeded for a short time, brazenly gambling that the speed of his advance and Allied air superiority would keep the Germans too off balance to attack his unprotected flank. But Third Army’s advance was soon slowed by gasoline and ammunition shortages as Third Army reached the bank of the Moselle River, giving the Germans time to organize their defenses. Patton finally began receiving adequate supplies on September 4, after a week’s excruciating pause, and Third Army established a bridgehead across the Moselle on September 29—before halting again to wait for supplies. The fortress city of Metz did not fall until December 13, holding up Third Army long enough for the Germans to make an organized withdrawal behind the Saar River, setting the stage for the Battle of the Bulge.
The Germans, unaware of the Allies’ supply issues, credited their counterattacks throughout the withdrawal for Third Army’s seemingly hesitant advance. Lieutenant General Hermann Balck, who took command of Army Group G in September, thus did not think highly of Patton—or any other opposing commanders—during this time. Balck wrote to his commander, Runstedt, on October 10, “I have never been in command of such irregularly assembled and ill-equipped troops. The fact that we have been able to straighten out the situation again…can only be attributed to the bad and hesitating command of the Americans and the French, [and that our] troops…have fought beyond praise.” Looking back on his battles against Patton throughout the autumn, in 1979 Balck recalled, “Within my zone, the Americans never once exploited a success. Often [General Friedrich Wilhelm von] Mellenthin, my chief of staff, and I would stand in front of the map and say, ‘Patton is helping us; he failed to exploit another success.’
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@johnburns4017
I wonder where it all comes from with Para Dave and his hatred of Montgomery?..
Montgomery was dead over 20 years before he was born. I never seen any evidence that Montgomery ever visited Cleveland, Ohio, USA.
Eisenhower made a muck in Tunisia, the invasion of Italy, and North West Europe after August 1944.
Bradley messed up in Normandy, the Hurtgen Forest, the Ardennes, the Ruhr. Devers did little. Below them, Hodges went to pieces in the Ardennes, Patton said a lot, did little, and so on, and so on.
That lot should be occupying his time, not a commander in a different army, from a different country.
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@johnburns4017
‘This from an Australian poster
Patton beat Monty to Messina going around the whole island. He also broke out of Normandy at operation cobra. Those 15 miles at bastogne was also made while pivoting in the middle of an attack on the Siegfried line. Listen, Monty was an infantry commander. He was not skilled in maneuver warfare. Patton was a calvary man and knew how to push and exploit breakthroughs. Monty got jealous, put together a stupid plan for his ego and got good men killed. Add on top of that what would have happened if Monty did cross the Rhine (the slaughter of xxx corp) and you should realize how horrible of a commander Monty truly was. Alexander was way better and he at least knew his role as a subordinate to the Americans.’ Via Para Dave.
AH!!!!!!!!!!!! That’s a hammer blow…How can anyone ever recover from that?...Still, lets have a go:
Sicily…
Patton absconded from the battlefield, and had to be lured back to the fight with the promise of being first into Messina. He got there having faced almost zero opposition, and finding time to assault Sicilian peasants, and couple of his own soldiers.
Operation Cobra…
Started and finished before Patton was even in the battle in France.
Jealousy of Patton…
This Australian seemed to have known what was in Montgomery’s mind. Perhaps he met Montgomery who then confided in him. I have no such experience, having to base any view on the relationship between the two, on the common place observation that Montgomery was in a different army, has higher in command after Sicily, and was in a different part of the front after Patton eventually joined fighting in North West Europe. Still, its not all bad…Montgomery actually requested that Patton take over a part of the allied from line from Hodges. But of course, that request would have gone through Patton’s superior officer, Bradley.
XXX Corps across the Rhine…
Given the limited ambitions of MARKET GARDEN, and the state of German forces at that time, it would seem hard to see how the Germans could have put in a stint that would have led to ‘the slaughter of xxx corp’. They were unable to do such a thing in the months after MARKET GARDEN.
Alexander
Like Montgomery, and unlike Eisenhower, Bradley, and Devers, Alexander had personal combat experience, like Montgomery, he was awarded the DSO in the First World war. Like Montgomery, Alexander had performed with distinction in very difficult circumstances in France in 1940, in a situation that was none of their making. Like Montgomery, Alexander had to cope with American commander’s self-centred behaviour in Sicily (Patton), and in Italy (Clark) – when the American commander left British and American troops in the lurch to seek personal glory in Rome - horrible.
...This was easier than swatting flies.
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In Noth Africa, Montgomery's forces advanced 700 miles from El-Alamein to Benghazi in nine days - 700 miles. In the desert, with one intermediate port, Tobruk. With one road, and one rail line. Both of which had suffered from multiple demolitions from the retreating Axis forces. 700 miles is London to Berlin. Compare all that to US forces in Tunisia, after they had faced the Vichy French...
Italy... Montgomey's meagre forces were spread around Sothern Italy, due to Eisenhower's BAYTOWN, and SLAPSTICK. After Montgomery had warned about the consequences of those undertakings.
Normandy...
CRUSADE IN EUROPE
DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER
WILLIAM HEINEMANN LIMITED 1948
P333
‘All along the front we pressed forward in hot pursuit of the fleeing enemy. In four days the British spearheads, paralleled by equally forceful American advances on their right, covered a distance of 195 miles, one of the many feats of marching by our formations in the great pursuit across France.’
Ike, Brad, Beetle, Lightening Joe, etc., atc. Are we supposed to believe that people who comment on YouTube actually knew these people?
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korbell
Here is the link to that Big Woody forgery.
YouTube item:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2obwt4n1G0&lc=UgyXsiASB8pi_JS_WfV4AaABAg.9Afuv3FHaYc9BMmj0JXY2u&feature=em-comments
Lead Comment:
John Cornell
3 weeks ago (as of 31 07 2020)
Patton should have kept his mouth shut and concentrated on achieving his task of taking Metz, which had been his objective two weeks before Market Garden and yet still hadn't done it 8 weeks after Market Garden.
25th reply.:
Big Woody
1 week ago (as of 31 07 2020)
Das Deutsches Afrika-korps: Siege und Niederlage. By Hanns-Gert von Esebeck, page 188 Returning from North Africa with an inflated ego after the comparatively easy defeat of the German Africa Corps, he considered himself to be the greatest commander ever. Later information has revealed that he inflated the number of German casualties to improve his image. At El Alamein he claimed that there were more German casualties than there were German troops all together on the actual front!
This was his source, as well he knows:
http://ww2f.com/threads/what-went-wrong-with-operation-market-garden.28468/page-5#post-389603
What went wrong with Operation Market Garden?
Discussion in 'Western Europe 1943 - 1945' started by tovarisch, Feb 2, 2010.
Page 5 of 14 < Prev1←34567→14Next >
RAM
Member
Joined:Dec 11, 2007
Messages:507
Likes Received:9
Returning from North Africa with an inflated ego after the comparatively easy defeat of the German Africa Corps, he considered himself to be the greatest commander ever. Later information has revealed that he inflated the number of German casualties to improve his image.
At El Alamein he claimed that there were more German casualties than there were German troops all together on the actual front!
RAM, July 28 2010
This will be waiting for Big Woody, every time he posts a comment on YouTube.
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@akgeronimo501
The medical figures are important. Remember no one is more important than a medic when you need one.
Yea, that's why Americans have to carry a bunch of credit cards to pay for an ambulance. But back on topic, this should let you know all you need know:
The Emergency Medical Services, Volume 1: England and Wales, Edited by Dunn, Cuthbert, L. London: HMSO, 1952
The Emergency Medical Services, Volume 2: Scotland, Northern Ireland and Principal Air Raids on Industrial Centres in Great Britain, Edited by Dunn, Cuthbert L. London: HMSO, 1953
The Royal Air Force MedicalServices, Volume 1: Administration, Edited by Rexford-Welch, S. C. London: HMSO, 1954
The Royal Air Force Medical Services, Volume 2: Commands, Edited by Rexford-Welch, S. C. London: HMSO, 1955
The Royal Air Force Medical Services, Volume 3: Campaigns, Edited by Rexford-Welch, S. C. London: HMSO, 1958
The Royal Naval Medical Service, Volume 1: Administration, Coulter, Jack L. S. London: HMSO, 1954
The Royal Naval Medical Service, Volume 2: Operations, Coulter Jack L. S. London: HMSO, 1956
The Army Medical Services, Administration, Volume 1, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1953
The Army Medical Services, Administration, Volume 2, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1955
The Army Medical Services, Campaigns, Volume 1: France and Belgium, 1939-40, Norway, Battle of Britain, Libya, 1940-42, East Africa, Greece, 1941, Crete, Iraq, Syria, Persia, Madagascar, Malta, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1956
The Army Medical Services, Campaigns, Volume 2: Hong Kong, Malaya, Iceland and the Faroes, Libya, 1942-43, North-West Africa, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1957
The Army Medical Services, Campaigns, Volume 3: Sicily, Italy, Greece (1944-45), Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1959
The Army Medical Services, Campaigns, Volume 4: North-West Europe, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1962
The Army Medical Services, Campaigns, Volume 5: Burma, Crew, Francis A. E. London: HMSO, 1966
The Civilian Health and Medical Services, Volume 1: The Civilian Health Services; Other Civilian Health and Medical Services, MacNalty, Sir Arthur A. London: HMSO, 1953
The Civilian Health and Medical Services, Volume 2: The Colonies, The Medical Services of the Ministry of Pensions, Public Health in Scotland, Public Health in Northern Ireland, MacNalty, Sir Arthur A. London: HMSO, 1955
Medical Services in War: The Principal Medical Lessons of the Second World War, MacNalty, Sir Arthur A. London: HMSO, 1968
Medicine and Pathology, Edited by Cope, Sir Zachary London: HMSO, 1952
Surgery, Edited by Cope, Sir Zachary London: HMSO, 1954
Casualties and Medical Statistics, Edited by Franklin, William M. London: HMSO, 1972
Medical Research, Edited by Green, F. H. K. and Major-General Sir Gordon Covell London: HMSO, 1953
Enjoy!
So his Atkins writes stories rather than history?..
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@akgeronimo501
Not really R...
An American undergoes a lengthy, period of treatment at a swish US hospital. One day he is called into a meeting there, where his consultant states that he has some bad news, and some good news for him. The consultant goes on to say that the bad news is that patient's insurance will not cover the cost of the treatment and so, as per the small print in the insurance plan, the hospital will not be continuing with the treatment, and will be taking his life's savings, his car, and in six months time, his house and its contents to make good the financial shortfall. And also, if those monies are still not enough, his wife and daughter will have to go on the game until the account is squared.
The patient stunned, can only say: 'so what is the good news?'. 'Ah', the consultant replies, 'you have now got alzheimer's - so go home and forget all about it'.
'Nice now what did any of them say?'
I don't know, I have not read them.
'Did they mention needing C-47 to evacuate their wounded?'
I cannot say? Perhaps they mentioned the amount of medical facilities that Britain made available to US forces (Example: Netley Hospital), the amount of US casulalty evacuation and repatripation that British ships undertook.
Shall we have a look ?..
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@akgeronimo501
R
‘None of that included Morphine or the grandaddy of them all Penicillin.’
How do you know?
‘The ones fighting at the time were getting on hundred percent of their supplies from the US.’
How do you know?
‘You do know that Democrats lied to congress about lend lease?’
No, I don’t know. How do you know?
‘The Republicans wanted the "allies" to repay whatever was "loaned". This is why no one knows the exact amount of things sent.’
How so? Britain knows exactly what was sent to us. You have seen the figures. Why would leaders in the USA not know what was sent? If they did not know what was sent, how could they work out what should be repaid? According to what I have seen, decades later, another Republican, Donald Trump, had not repaid a girl dance troops called the ‘USA Freedom Kid’ for appearing at one of his rallies. Perhaps Donald was preoccupied with looking at the backside of the oldest of those girl, he forgot to get his cheque book out.
‘"Supplanting it [42 production] in 1943 would be thirty thousand tanks- more than three per hour around the clock, and more in a year than Germany would build from 1939 to 1945." Even better.’
Even better than what? Germany produced 67,000 tanks, Britain and Russia produced 140,000 between them.
My apologies for the length of this, but it is important for framing.
"More than 12 percent of the British population now served in the armed forces; with national mobilization nearly complete, severe manpower shortages loomed if the war dragged on, particularly if it required storming the glacis of Festung Europa across the Channel. British deaths already exceeded 100,000, with thousands more missing, 20,000 merchant mariners lost, and 45,000 dead in the United Kingdom from German air raids. Salvation lay here, in America. The green and feeble U.S. Army of just a few years earlier now exceeded 6 Million, led by 1,000 generals, 7,000 colonels, and 343,000 lieutenants. The Army Air Forces since mid-1941 had grown 3,500 percent, the Army Corps of Engineers 4,000 percent. A Navy that counted eight aircraft carriers after Pearl Harbor would have fifty, large and small, by the end of 1943. More cargo vessels would be guilt this year in the United States-liberty ship now took just fifty days, from keel laying to launch- than existed in the entire British merchant fleet. Just today, perhaps as a subtle reminder to Churchill before his arrival, Roosevelt had publicly announced that 'production of airplanes by the United States' - 86,000 in 1943 now exceeds that of all nations combined. Of the 48 billion in war supplies provided by the United States to its allies, two thirds would go to Britain."
Its too late, the crisis was in 1940, when the USA was nowhere to be seen.
Rick Atkinson… I exchanged emails with him on points in his book ‘The Guns at Last Light’ - after Big Woody made the mistake of quoting from that work. Atkinson seems to be a nice guy.
You seem to be making the same mistake.
‘Just stop, you little asses were kicked and you dad had to come get the Bully out of your yard. So again, all that is required is a thank you. In fact Churches in England should be required to fly the Stars and Strips on Sundays.’ The Red Flag would be more appropriate, after all Britain and Russia defeated Germany. How are you getting with those stats for British imports of medical supplies?
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