Comments by "" (@neutronalchemist3241) on "Metatron"
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There had been variations, with the katana made in wartime that thended to be less sharp and more resistant, but in general japanese swords are more brittle and prone to breakage than a European sword of the same size, in exchange of them being sharper. Katanas are not really made for parrying, they are made to bring a single deadly slash to an uncovered part of the enemy's body, or to die in the attempt.
Samurai doesn't use shields cause, for most of their history, they had been mounted archers that used the tachi / katana as their secondary weapon, and mounted archers (see Parts, Huns, Mongols...) doesn't use shields (you can't use it while throwing, it doesn't cover the horse...).
Other than the samurai, the foot soldiers were mostly conscript peasants, and those were rarely armed with more than a spear in Europe too.
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All in all the Swiss squares were not that different from the Macedonian phalanx, that the Romans defeated easily even before the Marian reform. Obviously, in that case, the tactic was not to directly attack the front of the enemy formation, but to lure the enemies on rough terrain, where they could not mantain it, or to take advantage of the superior mobilities of the cohorts to attack the flanks. The Swiss were much more disciplined than the average infantry formation of medieval time, but not more disciplined than the oplites or phalangites.
After the marian reform, we have to take in account military engineering too. Even on a seemingly favourable terrain for the pikemen's squares, Romans could easily dig or build obstacles that would have made impossilbe to mantain the formation. That's an often overlooked topic. A battle vs a legion was not only a battle vs shield and short sword. It's a battle vs a military system that in no time could build fortifications, trenches, traps, and make a terrain impracticable for the enemy.
That doesn't mean that the Roman victory would be a given fact, obviously. Even the Romans had their bad days. But, assuming both the formations to have a capable commander, one that know how to get the best from his men, to me the legion had more possibilities.
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*There could be, and had been used, multiple phalanxes. The pikemen had always more columns cause they came from different places, and, like for the oplite phalanx, the unity of a column depended from the fact that its members came from the same place and thrusted each other. Furthermore, among the Swiss, every column was free to decide wether to attack or rethreat. The coordination was scarce.
*To have different kind of soldiers into the same formation is not necessarily an advantage. If you have not enough pikemen to keep the enemy infantry at bay, and not enough swordsmen to fight them in close quarters, it will end in a slaughter anyway. Furthermore, phalangites had swords as well, and they had been easily defeated.
*The legion evolved a lot during the years as well. But, until the advent of firearms, I don't see advantages in the pikemen squares over the legion.
*Is like saying that, since a AA station can shoot down an attack helicopter, while a tank will have a hard time versus it, the AA station will easily win versus the tank. It doesn't work that way. The pikemen squares evolved exactly to counter the cavalry, but they generally never fought vs other kind od organized infantry. Legions instead fought vs many kind of organized infantry. Pikemen would have been nothing new to them, only a variation of the Oplite-Macedonian phalanx they knew well.
And, as said, there is the military engineering to take into account. At the Bicocca the Swiss were defeated mainly by the mere presence of a sunken road transverse to the battlefield. To make better obstacles would have been child play for the legionaries.
That's my opinion.
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*Pike squares put togheter men of the same origin. For this cause, often there had been competition, and not cohordination, between the Swiss columns on the same battlefield.
*Gauls too fought in close formaftions of spearmen. Formations of spearmen were nothing new for the Romans. They saw it before.
*Is not a question of numbers, but of numbers for the same area. In a certain area there could be only a certain number of men. Too few pikemen, and the enemies will find their way to fight in close quarters, and at that point the pikemen will be only an hindrance. Too few swordsmen, and they will not make any difference. If combined formations would have been ALWAYS an advantage, the Romans would have kept the hasta between their squares, or the phalangites would have kept the oplites between theirs. They didn't cause it was not an advantage.
*I never said the Romans were invincible. I said: "That doesn't mean that the Roman victory would be a given fact, obviously. Even the Romans had their bad days. But, assuming both the formations to have a capable commander, one that know how to get the best from his men, to me the legion had more possibilities."
*Infact, once other organized infantries begun to appear on the battlefield, initially copying the Swiss (cause they were then the only example of efficient infantry available) the pikemen square formation begun to change, incorporating more and more other kind of soldiers (cause heavy cavalry was no more the primary threat) and resembling less and less a pikemen square, until the ones that remained more faithful to the original formation had been the first to be throughly and repeatedly beaten. It doesn't seems a demonstration of strenght of the pikemen squares vs other forms of infantry.
*The phalanx could too. There is simply a trade-off between lenght of the spear and number of lines of soldiers employed, and so the effectiveness of the defense, and time employed to change formation.
After the harquebuses became the main infantry weapon, the pike remained in use only to protect them from the cavalry charges. It had been abandoned as soon as the bayoned was invented, and a musket with a bayonet is a short spear. So short spears and no shields are the best formation ever? No. Simply shields were useless vs firearms.
And, as said, there is the military engineering to take into account. A battle vs a legion is not only a battle vs shield and short sword. It's a battle vs a military system that in no time could build fortifications, trenches, traps, and make a terrain impracticable for the enemy. Historically the pikemen squares did nothing similar, and did not cope well with natural or artificial obstacles.
Thanks to you.
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The civilizations that relied on the shield-spear combination , almost always used a variation of the "shield wall" tactic, with the two opposite formations in close contact, pushing one vs the other, the shields locked, and the spear used to hit in the spaces left between the shields.
It's a formation that doesn't need much training to be effective. It only needs it's memebers so thrust eachoter (infact it was good for the citizens of the same city-state, ot the inahbitants of the same fiord).
On the other hand, this formation is not very deadly. The slaughters se saw in the Greek wars almost always happened during the cavalry's chase after one of the two formations was broken.
The Romans used the shield offensively. Their shields were not locked, but used to hit the enemy, or cover his field of view. In this case the gladium gives to the soldier more possibilities. He can instantly decide to hit the enemy's foot, or the leg, ot the shoulder, every square inch of bare skin, without having a long rod behind him to hinder his movements. Furthermore the gladium's blade can't be grabbed if the thrust fails to hit, and the gladium is lighter than the spear, so it's wielder can hit faster and more times first to be tired.
This way of fighting was much deadlier. A legion was not a pushing machine with a secondary thrusting capability. To go against a legion with the idea of pushing it back was like to go against a chainsaw with the idea of pushing it back.
On the other hand, this kind of formation needs much more training to be effective.
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Roman society was sexist (like all the societies of that time), but not as sexist as the Greek one. Roman women could study (actually, until they worn the "toga praetexta", male and female children were considered equal), and, altough they couldn't have a political career, it was considered normal for them to have a political influence, talk with men that were not their relatives, participate in banquets with the men and so on. Roman women usually worn the "stola" that covered more than the tunic, but could leave arms, neck and even the shoulders uncovered. The choice to cover or not the hair was of them, we have depictions of Roman women with or without the hair covered by the "palla" (a kind of mantle).
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It's because people are people that we can't be sure if the city on Hisarlik hill is historical Troy.
We know it was considered that in Hellenistic and Roman period, but we also know that it was a tourist attraction. In Hellenistic period, in "Troy", there were, IE, the tombs of heroes that didn't even die there.
There's no guarantee that the entire city wasn't a tourist trap.
The city had been abandoned at the start of the Iron Age. It's entirely possible that, at the end of the "Greek dark age", when the poems on the Trojan war had become famous, people started to search for the city sung there in the region of the Troad, but the memory of the real location had been lost. Then the people that lived around Hissarlik hill reasoned "look at the fine ruins we have here. The shore, the rivers, all seems pretty similar to the poem. And all these people are searching for Troy. Let's THIS be Troy." and proceeded to make Santa Claus' village. Then Santa Claus' village influenced the later narrations of the poem, so the location and the poem became even more alike.
Infact the location is pretty similar, yes, but none of the Hisarlik's city strata really line up with the events of the poem. We have to mix up two separate levels to have a big city in the Mycenean period (but destroyed by an heartquake, not a war), and a city destroyed by a war (but too late for the Myceneans to have done that).
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