Comments by "John Zuma" (@johnzuma4688) on "Chris At Speakers Corner"
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@snf321gotti6 You say >> thank you for pointing out that 0.1 percent of that of the total words in the book can be read I different ways << In the more than 30 different Arabic qurans we can buy it states that Mohammed’s allah will guard his quran. As you agree the different qurans have verses that should be same but have different meanings. So did Mohammed lie that his allah would guard the quran as we see Mohammed’s allah did not do so, or was Mohammed’s allah not capable of guarding his quran? And of course even one difference between two different qurans would prove that the qurans have not been perfectly preserved. So 0,1 % differences between just two different Arabic quran shows a major failure in the preservation of the qurans. And then we have some 40 different Arabic qurans.
You say >> Your still not showing me 2 different books your just referring to the same book that is read in 2 ways << My friend, you seem rather confused. These two different qurans are not just read differently they have many verses that are written in a different way. And that my friend makes them two books. They even have different titles. The one is called a hafs quran and the other is called a warsh quran. So we have two books with different titles and many verses in them that have different meanings. Clearly the quran invented by Mohammed has not been preserved. Especially when we read that Uthman burnt all the originals. And then we read that even Uthmans qurans have all been lost. And then we read in the Islamic sources that more than 100 verses have been lost. And of course Uthman wrote one quran in one dialect, so who invented all the other qurans? So which source did Muslims trace all these diffferent qurans back to? Mohammed’s quran was burnt, Uthmans qurans have been lost. So which source are you talking about?
There is nothing hypothetical about the quran not having been preserved. The evidence we have factually as well as logically proves that the quran has not been guarded by Mohammed’s allah. That raises the following questions. If Mohammed lied about this then we have to ask what else did Mohammed lie about in the quran? This makes the qurans (plural) most unreliable as even the verses that are the same in all these qurans might not be what allah said via his angel but only be an invention by Mohammed. If Mohammed’s allah was not up to the task then he cannot be our Almighty God of the Bible which means that not one of the many different qurans can be from Mohammed’s allah.
You ask >> Well then how do you justify what the Bible is ???? << First of all, the Bible does not make the claim that it is the perfectly preserved direct revelation of God. So nobody would expect that the Bible has been perfectly preserved. And yes, some Christians claimed that the Bible was the inerrant Word of God, but nowhere in the Bible do we read this. So people made claims about the Bible that the Bible does not make. What should be believe? What people say or what is written in the Bible? I opt for believing what is written in the Bible and if people say something that contradicts what the Bible states then we know that the people are wrong in what they say. This is one of the many ways we know that Mohammed cannot be a prophet of our Almighty God of the Bible. Mohammed said something very different to what the Bible states.
So lets see what we do know about the Bible. We know from the Dead Sea Scrolls that what is taught in the Torah has been changed. And even though we do not have all of the books of the Old Testament, what we have shows that what is taught there has been changed either.
We have some 25.000 copies of copies of the New Testament which include some 5.000 handwritten copies of the Bible. And none of the changes in all these copies show any difference in what is taught in these copies. Even Bart Ehrman agrees that all the variances between all these thousands of copies show no difference in the theology taught in the New Testament. And remember there are many early translations of the NT as well a letters between the various churches, and none of them show a difference in theology.
And that is the difference between all these different qurans and all the variances in the Bible. The quran claims to be guarded by Mohammed’s allah but as the evidence shows this did not happen. On the other hand the Bible makes no claim that it is perfectly preserved but we find no difference in the theology taught. And that makes the Bible far more likely to be from God than the qurans.
In fact it is you who is trying to impose the claims Muslims make about the quran on the Bible. But when you dig a little deeper one sees that it is the quran that fails at all levels and the Bible comes out shining.
We read in the hadiths that some 20 years after Mohammed had died, different groups of Muslims recited the quran so differently that fights broke out between these groups as to who was reciting Mohammed's quran correctly. That shows that the memorization of the quran had failed completely just 20 years after Mohammed had died.
So Uthman rewrote the quran and made it one quran written in one dialect. Uthman then burnt all the originalswhich means nobody today has the quran according to Mohammed.
Today we know of some 40 different Arabic qurans, all written by unknown people after the time of Uthman. So the evidence is quite clear, the quran invented by Mohammed was burnt by Uthman, so nobody today knows what Mohammed actually said and the many different Arabic qurans we can buy clearly prove that all these qurans were corrupted.
And all of Uthmans qurans have been lost as well, so no-one can check what Uthman wrote. And we have Islamic sources that tell us that more than 100 verses of Surah 33 have been lost. And some sources tell us that the quran should have 111 surahs and other tell us that the quran should have 116 surahs. So did Muslims add surahs or did they delete them? So did Mohammed lie about his allah guarding the quran or was Mohammed's allah not capable of doing this?
So no, differences in the Bible are not any issue for Christian scholars, but differences in the quran are an issue due to the fact that different claims are made in the Bible and the quran. And as we see there are plenty and very significant differences in the many different qurans we can all buy.
But do tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed will get you to heaven.
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