Comments by "John Zuma" (@johnzuma4688) on "Chris At Speakers Corner"
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@kimiyoo5826 I read the Bible were it clearly states that camel meat is as unclean as pork (Leviticus 11:1-7). So even you admit that the quran cannot be from God as it allows something that is forbidden in the Law of Moses. And as Mohammed forbade the eating of pork, he clearly decided to follow the Law of Moses. And as Jesus said, not a single letter or dot of the law of Moses will be discarded. So either Mohammed followed the Law of Moses which means all of it which would include not eating camel meat. Or Mohammed made up his own law which we know cannot be from God. So either Mohammed was not a prophet of our GOD of the Bible as he did not follow the Law of Moses (or the commandments of Jesus) or Mohammed was not a prophet of God because he changed the law of Moses and did not follow the commandments of Jesus. Either way Mohammed was not a prophet of God.
So again I ask you, who is “the god” that Mohammed talks about? And do remember “allah” only means “the god” in Arabic. All I know for sure is that Mohammed’s “the god” is not our ONE TRUE GOD of the Bible. And of course as we can all buy more than 30 different Arabic qurans today, Mohammed’s “the god” could not even guard his quran. And by the way, from the sources we have we know that what our God of the Bible teaches in the Bible has not changed in the last 2000 years.
In Surah 3:3 Mohammed tells us that God revealed the Torah and the Gospel, which of course make them the Word of God as that is how God reveals. And in Surah 6:115 Mohammed tells us that none can change the Word of God. Logically according to the quran, the Torah and the Gospel we have today must be the original Word of God. So we all (you included) should read the Word of God in the Torah and the Gospel.
I have read the hafs quran which is full of contradictions, so which quran do you use when you say your quran does not have any contradictions? And do remember surah 21:30 (all living things are made from water) contradicts surah 55:15 (jinn who are living things, are not made of water but of the flame of a smokeless fire). I did read the hafs quran carefully and found it to be full of mistakes and contradictions.
So tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed who was the only messenger of islam will get you or anyone else to heaven?
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@kimiyoo5826 Most people in the whole world at the time of Mohammed could not read and write. So why would anyone believe that Mohammed was stupid because he could not read and write?
The quran clearly states that Mohammed made no miracles, so any claim that Mohammed did miracles proves that the quran is false.
If you actually knew something about mathematics then you would quickly realize that there are no mathematical miracles in the quran.
Now why would you reject the Bible my friend? In Surah 3:3 Mohammed tells us that God revealed the Torah and the Gospel, which of course make them the Word of God as that is how God reveals. And in Surah 6:115 Mohammed tells us that none can change the Word of God. Logically according to the quran, the Torah and the Gospel we have today must be the original Word of God. So are you saying that the quran is false?
And why would I hate a book, just because it logically must be false? If you are a Muslim then you should believe that the Bible is true because the quran states that the Bible is true. And that is where Muslims face one of the many dilemmas of the quran. You see the quran clearly states that the Bible is the revealed and unchanged Word of God, yet the quran contradicts the Bible. So if the Bible is true, then as the Bible contradicts the quran, which proves that the quran must be false. On the other hand, if the Bible is false then, as the quran states that the Bible is true, it proves that the quran must be false. Irrespective if the Bible is true or false, it proves that according to the quran, we know that the quran must be false. So why do you follow a book that logically must be false?
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@kimiyoo5826 My friend, I understand perfectly well what you are saying, I just do not agree with it.
Why do you even mention that Mohammed could not read and write? Mohammed could speak and so he could recite and he recited the quran, that is what islam teaches. There were plenty of poets in Arabic and they all recited their poetry, could they all read and write? Of course not, so where did they get all their poetry from?
There are plenty of different qurans. The two very different qurans I have here at home are all full of mistakes and contradictions. That alone proves that they are no miracle at all.
I mention Surah 3:3 because you believe in the quran. Or are you telling me that you do not believe in any one of the many different qurans we can all buy?
Actually Mohammed was so ignorant that he did not even know what the Bible (library of books) all contains. Mohammed seemed to only know about the Torah, the Psalms and the Gospel. But then the Torah and the Gospel are the two main parts of the Bible. And we read in Surah 3:3 >> He hath revealed unto thee the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was (revealed) before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. « — English Translation (Pickthall)
So here we read that God has revealed in truth the scriptures which were revealed before the quran. The scriptures that were revealed beforehand by God was the Bible. Mohammed then refers specifically to the Torah and the Gospel which are the two major parts of the Bible. So the Bible (Scriptures revealed beforehand in truth) must be the Word of God as that is how God reveals. And in Surah 6:115 we read that “none can change the Word of God”. So according to the quran, the Torah and the Gospel we have today must be the same as the original. So the qurans (plural) all say that the Torah and the Gospel we have today are part of the Christian Bible. Did YOU get this?
I and do not attack you, I only tell you what is mentioned in the quran and the hadiths.
You say >> it's clear that the jesus in the bible is Lucifer not prophet jesus. << Do explain on what you base this assumption of yours. And do show which verses you are referring to. May I suggest that you actually read those verses and the context. I assume you do not refer to these verses as you have never read them.
You say >> why did churches burn your own Bible << You seem confused, it was Uthman who burnt the original qurans which were based on what Mohammed recited. Or do you not know that Uthman burnt all the qurans and replaced Mohammed’s qurans which his own quran?
You say I should defend the Word of God. So you agree that the quran is false? Now if you want me to explain a Bible verse to you, then you have to show the verse you are referring to.
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@kimiyoo5826 We read in the most authentic islamic source the following:
>> Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to 'Uthman, "O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and the Christians did before." So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, "Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you." Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, "In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue." They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): 'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.' (33.23) << Sahih Bukhari 6:61:510.
Here we read that at the time of Uthman different groups of Muslims were reciting “the quran” so differently that it was feared that fights would break between these groups. This required Uthman to put the quran into writing. This tells us that the memorization of the quran had failed completely just 20 years after Mohammed had died.
Then we read that Uthman wrote ONE quran in ONE dialect (not seven) and then BURNT all the original qurans that were based on what Mohammed has recited. Of course we see that Hafsas quran was incomplete and we see in other islamic sources that there are more than 100 verses were lost from just surah 33. And all of the Uthmanic qurans have been lost as well.
And as we can buy more than 30 different ARABIC qurans today, we know that they must all be corrupted.
So can you tell me, why do you believe that following Mohammed will get you to Gods heaven? And do remember Mohammed is the only messenger of islam. And do please provide the quran verses on which you base your belief.
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@kimiyoo5826 Where does the Bible say that it is a “perfect” book? I must have missed that verse when I read it and I certainly never made that claim. Now what God teaches us is perfect as it ensures that we can all make it to heaven if we accept Gods plan for our salvation. On the other we can of course reject God. Your choice my friend.
On the other hand we read in Surah 15:9 >> Indeed, it is We who sent down the message [i.e., the Qur’ān], and indeed, We will be its guardian. « — Saheeh International. As we can buy more than 30 different Arabic qurans today we know that “the quran” (the one revealed by Mohammed) has not been guarded by Mohammed’s allah. So tell me, was Mohammed lying about this or was Mohammed’s allah not capable? So tell me, why do you still believe in the quran you use? And of course which quran do you use and why that one?
So lets us look at the age of Jehoiachin when he became King.
>> Commentators on these verses explain that Jehoiachin was, in fact, crowned twice. Shortly after Jehoiachin’s father, Jehoiakim, began his reign, he (or the king of Egypt) crowned his eight-year-old son as heir to the throne, to ensure that Jehoiachin would become king after him.
Jehoiakim himself had to wrest the throne (with the help of the King of Egypt) from his younger brother, Jehoahaz. As a result, Jehoiakim wanted to ensure that his firstborn would be firmly ensconced on the throne before his own death.
When Jehoiachin was eighteen, Jehoiakim died and Jehoiachin in fact took the throne. <<
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1452602/jewish/How-Old-Was-Jehoiachin.htm
This is the Jewish explanation and as it does not change what God teaches about His plan for our salvation, the issue you raised is totally irrelevant to Jews or Christians.
Now for your question. In Surah 18:86 >> Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness. « — English Translation (Pickthall)
So here we read in the quran that Dhul Qurneyn found the sun setting in muddy spring. You really believe that the sun sets in a muddy spring where people live nearby?
And by the way, I follow our God of the Bible, so that guarantees me a place in heaven. What will happen to you on judgement day?
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@kimiyoo5826 Your English is OK. Again you understood perfectly well what I said and that was that Christianity stopped the slavery in the islamic counties and especially in the Middle East. And Christianity stopped slavery because it is evil and no because anyone fought back.
Marriage in islam is like slavery for the women. Have you not read even one quran that you do not know this? And in Europe women can do any job they want to and do not need some man to marry them for them to have an existence.
From Wikipedia:
>> The Muslim slave trade was most active in west Asia, eastern Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. Muslim traders exported as many as 17 million slaves to the coast of the Indian Ocean, the Middle East, and North Africa.[13] Abolitionist movements began to grow during the 19th century, prompted by both Muslim reformers and diplomatic pressure from Britain. The first Muslim country to prohibit slavery was Tunisia, in 1846.[14] During the 19th and early 20th centuries all large Muslim countries, whether independent or under colonial rule, banned the slave trade and/or slavery. The Dutch East Indies abolished slavery in 1860, while British India abolished slavery in 1862.[15] The Ottoman Empire banned the African slave trade in 1857 and the Circassian slave trade in 1908,[16] while Egypt abolished slavery in 1895, Afghanistan in 1921 and Persia in 1929.[17] In some Muslim countries in the Arabian peninsula and Africa, slavery was abolished in the second half of the 20th century due to the pressure of the British and French: 1962 in Saudi Arabia and Yemen, Oman in 1970, Mauritania in 1981.[18] However, slavery has been documented in recent years, despite its illegality, in Muslim-majority countries in Africa including Chad, Mauritania, Niger, Mali, and Sudan.[19][20] <<
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